The Romulan Secret - Ancient Androids | Star Trek Picard Theory
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- Опубліковано 26 лип 2024
- A bit of a crazy theory on Star Trek Picard about the Romulan organization the Zhat Vash secret... that there are Ancient Androids and a secret synthetic group that has directed organic life for 1000s of years. They influenced early societies like the Vulcans with surak the synthetic. The Romulans were the rebels fighting against surak, who they found out was an android - they lost the war and left the planet vowing never to use synthetics or AI. The Zhat Vash was founded, and have been fighting a secret war with these ancient androids all this time. Dahj and Soji are the first organic synthetics to have been made since then by Maddox, and so the Zhat Vash confuse them with the ancient androids and want to find the location of their homeworld through them. Who are the Conclave of 8? Are they the illuminati of Star Trek, and could they be connected to the ancient android group. Will the ancient android story connect with Star Trek Discovery's season 3 and will it be an open war between organics and synthetics?
Lots of information in this video, let me know if it was too much or makes sense :)
What do you think about this theory? Leave a comment below and TREK ON!
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👍👍Love this theory! Ties up a bunch of loose ends from TOS to today. Keep 'em coming!!!
Thanks! 👍
I like the theory, but my concern is those putting it into practice have more desire to pump up the action, than explore this or its own narrative direction. Something is going to explode in fast edited cuts instead. And that's a shame, because Star Trek is supposed to be about the examination of ideas from multiple sides
Dav Free are you kidding... the action has been low so far
Except it was all incorrect, but 20:20 hindsight is a great thing lol.
I like your the idea of surak being a synthetic and that's what caused the split of Vulcan and romulans
Thanks! Originally that’s what the whole video was going to be about and then it just expanded from there :) Even if the rest doesn’t turn out to be true, that’s one of my favourite parts also, and could make a lot of sense for the history of the Vulcans... 🖖
It makes sense, he created the Vulcanritural of Kohlinar, the purging of all emotions, and how Vulcans are obsessed with pure logic.
I'm getting a 2004 Battlestar Galactica vibe from this theory. Concave of 8 sounds like the significant 8 humanoid Cylon models. From 2004 BG canon, mitochondrial eve was Hera Agathon, the first human/cylon hybrid offspring. Could the secret be that all romulan/vulcans are offspring of a Vulcan/android hybrid and that there is latent synthetic code waiting to be activated in all Vulcans and Romulans?
I don't think this is where the writers are going with Picard, but it's a very interesting thought exercise nonetheless. Although I could be wrong too. Great theory.
Haha BSG does seem to be a big influence - as does Blade Runner... I’m not sure who the Conclave of 8 could be, but I almost wonder if it were 8 worlds secret organizations? E.g. romulans zhat vash, earths section 31, Klingon, gorn, Vulcan, andorian, tellerite, cardassian ? I.e. she does mention they operate on many worlds, could organics all be working together secretly in this one case (conclave of 8) in order to oppose those ancient androids? Might explain the attack on Mars also as a joint operation by conclave of 8 as a means to create a synthetic ban... done on a holiday to reduce casualties (first contact day)?
Doesn't account for the Rigelians. oof
The Sleepy Craftsman except it was established that human/cylon hybrids were sterile.
Nope. Athena and Helo's kid was mitochondrial eve.
Great theory. I doubt the writers of modern trek could think this up though.
In one of the many TNG novels this was the story. I cannot remember which one though. The ancient synthetics went around the universe collecting them from various races. The bartender who sometimes substituted for Guinan on Ten Forward was an android.
Would be great to find out which one it was if u remember...
@@StarTrekTheory I think it was this novel. memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Immortal_Coil
A better theory than what they came up with IMO. Not that I didn't like Picard in its own way... but there were aspects to your theory and how it integrated certain underutilized parts of lore and gave them a fresh coat of paint with a twist, better than Discount Lovecraftian Octopi AI coming through a portal. Your argument of Surak's influence on the Vulcan's causing the rift between the Romulans and Vulcans being and his actually having been an AI was rather nice.
Unfortunately it wasn't what we got. :/
Thanks! Haha, I really thought they were doing something like this, and then especially when the evil android (Sutra) did a 'mind meld' and was studying Vulcan history I thought that was a nod to it - who knows maybe it's still in the cards? Thanks for the great comment, glad you liked it!
Not a fan of the AI from another dimension coming through that portal?
You guys have some really great theories, I love it
This is an interesting story arc, and I do like this theory . It has always annoyed me that the Soong androids are universally considered the first and only sentient androids because of the Corby androids which are clearly sentient and self aware, and undoubtedly well recorded in Federation historical records. I find it too convenient that all Federation worlds fail to remember them. A secret oppositional organization would explain that. It would also render Both Data and Lore as targets for elimination, and drive them underground for their own survival. Lore, being self protective and devious could conceivable shine as the leader that helps the Soongs survive the hunt. Very interesting.
The moons in Soji's dream are big and spherical, clearly visible from the planet's surface, but Mars' moons aren't like this. And, as far as I know, in Mars there are not constant electrical storms.
I’m assuming Mars atmosphere is pretty violent since they say ‘Mars is still burning’... the twins would have been made well after the attacks.
Also, Phobos and Deimos, Mar's moon's, are irregular shaped and lumpy. The first is 14 miles at its widest, the other only 8. They don't fit the bill...
I like it. makes a frightening point. links multiple series. cannot ask for more
Thanks!
Really interesting theory. Have not been so entertained for ages :)
Thanks! 😂
Absolutely love the idea, makes perfect sense and fits the continuity really well. I'm not sure I have the faith in the writing staff though. I look forward to being proven wrong though.
it would make the show a hell of alot better if they went this direction.
Some people think that the admonition comes from either the Tkon Empire, or the Iconian Empire. I think it comes from the Iconian Empire since 0 killed the Tkon, but back to Iconia, the timeframes for the admonition and the fall of the Iconian Empire are almost perfect for one. For 2, We know that the Iconian Empire had advanced technology in the form of gateways, so it is likely that their tech did include advanced androids as well. So, it is most likely that the Iconians mistreated these androids which led them to calling the hate all organic life androids from a different universe. These androids then damaged the Iconian Empire so badly, that it weakened to a point where it could no longer sustain itself leading to its collapse and the placing of the admonition.
One huge flaw in your theory, through surak's teachings vulcans attained logic to temper their emotions, but they also gained telepathic abilities. Synthetic androids do not possess telepathic abilities...then there's the other telepathic races, the synthetics couldn't infiltrate or influence them...the synthetics would be easily identified.
Dude! This is an awesome theory.
Is it just me that think Rayban’s are a really bad design choice in a Star Trek episode
Haha... don’t you know, all spies use Raybans (even in the future) 😂
I like the idea that, the psychic "message in a bottle" on the planet that the Romulan's found wasn't able to convey information correctly for their physiology. Meaning they've interpreted the meaning incorrectly. It may be simply a warning against conflict with AI or a record of what the messengers believed was natural evolution. Especially with the first season ending with Picard SPOILERS an android, I think the show's intended message is that AI is actually good.
I wonder if Veger ever encountered these androids?
interesting... I wonder if the "ancient" Synthetics know of the Borg..
Someone else thinks Rios is a synth! Yes! I've been thinking that for a while. There are some hints. The closeups of the feet in a dark place were the last one, I think. Soji's feet were shot in a similar way to Rios' when he was playing soccer. It just struck me as similar imagery. I think that's a hint.
Good point, funnily when I saw that shot in the trailer originally I thought it was going to be Dahj playing in that shot... so definately could be a subtle clue! Soji was also barefooted during the escape in the latest episode.
The original purging of Organic beings by early synthetics is the premise for the Romulan end-times myth of Ganmadan...
Awesome idea. This could be a series or books in itself. Mystery, intrigue, adventure, etc.
Haha Thanks! If they don't end up doing it in the show, maybe I could write a Trek novel one day 😂
@@StarTrekTheory WRITE YOUR FANFIC.
Yes the old ones. It is still in my memory banks. Ha.
Classic Trek! Still the best...
If Sarak is an android, think about Jesus. good theory
DEEP cut! 👏🏽
I’m betting they dabbled with some shit like Synths from the Fallout universe or Replicants from the Bladerunner universe, shit went bad and nearly wiped them out again.
Worst case scenario is they somehow end up being responsible for the creation of the Borg.
Or the I, Mudd (episode) Androids Plante
Yep true, there’s a few candidates...
This video is the secret that blows my mind
I think at some point, maybe in season, The Borg Cooperative from the Voy episode Unity should be at least mentioned. It would be good to know what happened to them. Tht also had assimilated Romulans onboard.
That would be nice to see what happened to them... not to mention the overall Borg themselves too!
I am going along with the theory, that the romulans created the borg.
Very interesting supposition.
Good tie in
"The cymeks are former humanoid whose brains have been implanted in preservation canisters, which in turn can be installed into a variety of fearsome mechanical bodies, to extend their lives indefinitely and make them nearly unstoppable. The original twenty cymeks (calling themselves the Titans) had conquered the complacent universe by exploiting humanoid's reliance and dependency on machines, yet the Titans were later overthrown themselves by Omnius, an artificial intelligence of their design. Seeking to replace humanoid with machine, Omnius thus ignited the war between machine and humanoids."
Your theory would have been better than what we got.
8 months later. I could say it is a crazy idea an nonetheless not far-fetched
😂
Whoa thats where they got Mr X on resident evil 2
Star Trek is back in full force! Mind blowing ideas here, the surak bit is most delightful.
Thanks! New Golden age of Trek ahead hopefully... 🤞
@@StarTrekTheory Rios is reading a book about Surak: Surak and Existentialism
kirtanmedia really? That would be a huge hint if so...
There's no doubt I liked the video. Awesome theory. I just hope they don't uncover Sarek as being an android and keep -Battlestar Galactica- Stark Trek cannon alone.
Haha if it’s really true I’m not sure how I’ll feel too 😂 Although it would certainly bring new meaning to rewatches of TOS.
This is a cool theory. I think I actually prefer to the real story.
The only pieces missing is the creation of the Borg and the the spacefaring sphere lifeform from Discovery.
Haha true... actually I just had a thought - what would happen if one of those ancient androids were assimilated? Would the Borg cube shutdown perhaps? Could assimilating an organic android confuse the Borg or allow the android to access their computer and issue a shutdown command? Could be what happened, someone on that Romulan shuttle was one of those ancient androids undercover? 🤔
100% I agree, they will tie the two stories together.
I fully expect to see captain picard of the discovery with Burnham as his 1st officer.
@@StarTrekTheory A couple theories. First, I'd suggest that the Borg already assimilated one of the organic spheres a long, long time ago. Still not as old and as well knowledged as the one we see in Discovery, but versed enough to give the Borg collective an upper hand on many, many species throughout the galaxy. That is why the Borg knows of the existence of various species, and that is why they know they can overwhelm & defeat most of them. It is also why the Borg collective adopted the sphere shape as well.
Secondly, and my personal fav (though it'll never happen), is that we have completely misread the purpose of the Borg this entire time. Allow me to explain...
I keep going back to the Zhat Vash claim that their mission is so secret that learning of it woul "break peoples minds". The only minds we see 'broken' are the former Romulans on the Cube. Meaning, they get broken once they become assimilated and they learn the truth about the Borg. And to a lesser extent, humans and other races also have their minds tested, if not broken, once they too have been assimilated. Like Picard, Seven, Hugh, etc. I think that the mind-breaking secret is that much of the life as we know it is synthetic (ala Westworld). Not all of it, but far more than we realize. And groups like the Zhat Vash, and maybe Section 31 and others are well aware and are doing what they can to root them out for the sake of organic life everywhere. But back to the Borg...
I think that the Borg was created, ironically, as a means to root out all synthetic life in the galaxy. When they "assimilate" peoples they aren't stripping their essence away at all, but rather morphing each species into an organic/synthetic marriage that cannot ever be replaced by synthetic life alone. The Borg isn't a plague, but rather a cure for the entire galaxy.
More ironic still, is that the Androids Dajh & Soji created by Soong and Maddox and Jurati represent the perfection that the Borg was trying to achieve for the galaxy all along. And soon the Borg Collective, awoken by the presence of Locutus on the cube, will become aware of the existence of Soji, and will stop at nothing to have her ascend to become their new Borg Queen, with the renewed purpose of replacing all life with her same schematics.
And the only way the Borg, lead by their new Queen will be defeated, is for Picard to sacrifice himself, become Locutus once more, slay the Queen (the Queen is dead, long live the King) before ultimately sabotaging the cube by destroying it, and thus saving the galaxy once more.
Being read by Rios in episode 8: Surak and Existentialism
That would be an amazing clue if so..
Too logical, you're def an android ! Subbed based on this vid.
Haha 😂 thanks!
Very interesting...too bad Secret Hideout didn't know about it, until you spelled it out for them.
Haha 😂
Yeah it makes perfect sense
this could work
Tirs in with the Synthetics of Alien/Bladerunner
Not a secret if someone knows it thousands of years later...
Of course it is. It's being deliberately concealed. How is that not a secret? That's the definition of secret.
That might be going on in reality. It would explain a lot in the political world and in Hollywood.
In Nemesis, Romulans created a Data copy ( B4 ) . Would Romulans do that if this Theroy is true?
What was coming out of the portal Suji opened.
9:55 and a giant tech dragon will emerge, and one man, clad in gleaming, golden armor will face it down and subdue it, sealing it away inside the core of Mars once again.
for the God emperor.
I really enjoyed your thoughts & have to say I hope your right & not like season 3 west w total let down..
Thanks!
Funny because in TNG a Romulan tells data that there are a few Cyberneticists from Romulus that would love to study him. So…this is just new trek nonsense and the writers of “new trek” clearly don’t know the source material that came before Picard and discovery etc.
We are all Androids and I have to have my fix of WD40😊
I agree totally with you it has to be Rios
2:27
Since this secret is capable is melting the hearer's mind, why not tell him. Either as she's murdering him, or that now that Maddox is aware, he commits suicide.
The TNG novel Immortal Coil is kinda similar to this
Nice theory but I see 2 holes in it.
1. The fact that Captain Archer carried the Katra of Surok. If he was synthetic i doubt that would be possible.
2. From the interview with Rhonda there seems to be some implied time travel or viewing of the future which explains why the romulan ex borg all lost their minds just before or maybe during their assimilation which lead to the cube being disabled. At about the same time as the attack on Mars give or take.
The Katra thing is weird tho... it was stored in a statue for a thousand years (seems unrealistic, unless it was a digital memory)... so maybe we assume it’s not a proper katra in the traditional sense (which according to Sarek is fragile) but is rather a digital memory of the AI of Surak?
The interview of Rhonda could be unrelated to that secret (I.e. they could have gained that info from the collective when they were assimilated)? Wonder if it is a borg cube from the future which is what made it shutdown when it came back in time?
@@StarTrekTheory while i don't know how the Katra repository works i find it unlikely that a national human mind could be compatible a AI constructe based on heuristic algorithms.
As for Rhonda she said that she recognized Soji from tomorrow. What ever happened caused her and her crew to go mad and it all happened around the same time the attack on Mars took place ir seems like too much of a coincidence.
Somehow...the Silicon Avatar has to come into play. Perhaps it is an ancient weapon created by the Zhat Vash to pursue and destroy artificial life, with it being destroyed ultimately by a grieving mother.
That would be a great way to loop it all together... like a weapon that got out of control and was actually after the androids in the lab rather than the scientists.
What if the Romulans (or at least home) were the offshoot of a older synthetic species created by the zhat Vash? Over time, history forgot they were once synthethic.
I considered that idea also, it might explain how the assimilated Romulans can’t readjust (their programming has been altered too much)... but you’d think someone would have figured it out by now dissecting ex-Borgs and any time a Romulan died over the years... and also why would Jurati be compelled to kill to protect that secret, which wouldn’t seem ‘that bad’?
STP is dreadful!
I think you really could be onto something. It would definitely redeem what has so far been a pretty shaky Star Trek series in terms of quality. The only potential problem I see with what you're talking about is Star Trek: Enterprise. Surak's katra had survived and was confirmed to have been passed from one Vulcan to another throughout history, eventually ending up in Captain Archer's body (temporarily) when he was the only available receptacle for it. How could Surak have a katra to pass on if he were an android? Well, I suppose the writers could do a Borg-style retcon for that and say that Surak was really passing on nano-machines that carried his knowledge and personality and had the ability to attach themselves to an organic brain. Passing on this technological "katra" would be sort of like Borg assimilation except it would neither be violent nor suppress the host's personality.
You know the whole idea actually started from that - because in the episode his Katra is actually ‘stored’ in a statue... it’s not passed down in peoples minds, it was put in a tomb which the leader of the rebels finds at the start of the episode and then his Katra goes into him (and later Archer)... to me I found it so strange someone’s essence could exist inside a statue for literally a thousand years 😂 why don’t all the Vulcans do that? So it felt more like a program that had been stored digitally in a device and then uploaded to the persons brain? Not saying the Katra idea isn’t real, but in that particular case it seems to make more sense it was a digital program surviving through time in that statue device and uploading into their minds.
@@StarTrekTheory You remembered more about the episode than I did. It's been so long since I've seen it that I had forgotten about the statue thing. The only other time I've seen a statue contain the essence of a being in Star Trek was in DS9 when Dukat broke open that small statue and released a pah-wraith into himself. And I guess there was also that time when Sisko broke a Bajoran artifact and released both a pah-wraith and a prophet. But in both of those instances, we're talking about beings that always exist in a non-corporeal state. It's different with a katra, or at least it should be. Otherwise, why didn't Sarek ask to see if he could detect Spock's katra in the Enterprise's walls in Star Trek III?
@@InJeffable Haha exactly, if Vulcans could store themselves in objects then THAT would be a game changer ;) So it suggests Surak was somehow different to others...?
Don't forget, in TOS episode "Return to Tomorrow", the three ancient aliens living in those failing spheres that occupied Kirk, Spock, and the Lady Doctors bodies. They were building android bodies to put their 'Essences" in...
Dude you need to write Star Trek.
I hope not because this has been done in every series.
Oh I know what it is. It’s that all of this has happened before and all of this will happen again. LOL
Haha could be... Like Picasso once said... “Good artists copy, Great artists steal” 😂
@@StarTrekTheory So you're saying Kurtzman is a great artist then!?!
You give the writers way too much credit. They don't think their shit through.
😂 We can only hope
Yay
This theory can't be right because it's would go to deep into Trek and would mean that the writers looked into the lore and thought about something really complex. Romulans created the Borg is the way easier way to go. Remember: The writers know as much about Trek as Jay.
Haha 😂
Even if the Vulcans made the Borg I think there's more to it than just that. I think there's a secret that it's so powerful that assimilation by the Borg is the least thing the Galaxy has to worry about
Vulcans/Romulans and the Borg? Color me interested, where'd that theory come from?
Does anyone remembers the Questor tapes a TV pilot by Gene Roddenberry
Was it a similar story?
@@StarTrekTheory an android in search of his maker find that he's part of a lineage of androids that has served civilization for millennia.
@@StarTrekTheory a secret cabal of androids working behind humankind in a progressively way
Wow sounds really familiar 😂. That would have been a fun tv series, I wonder if they are inspired by it? Gene Roddenberry’s son is a producer on Picard also, maybe they’re using parts of it for inspiration for the plot?
@@StarTrekTheory maybe, but it feels good to make the connection ;
The big secret that shatters people's minds- sounds like Mony Python's funniest joke ever written that even if seen or heard only in part can result in three months in intensive care! Sounds like a Kurtzman writer's room meeting! In any case Picard
can't be saved by theories hitching a ride aboard TOS! Take a leaf out of ST Continues and go for quality over Kurtzman!
Nobody has picked up when Picard on Borg cube. Ex Borg calls out lacutas sorry spelling!! At that point somebody has Borg vision!! Green headup display. This is a lead to something!! The Borg who is activated in basement who looks like lacutas was that just red herring or are the Borg waking up after long slumber. Activated by return or lacutas & data daughter.
Doesn't make any sense whatsoever. This is more likely tied to the federation ban on AI after the Control incident.
144 years later? That's some slow bureaucracy...
Your theory is good, but not your prediction, in hindsight.
One thing is not Mars on fire from the attack? But I like where you are going and I to had though that they might try and tie Pickard and discovery together like you have said.
Top work boss
Thanks! I had thought maybe the fires on Mars contributed to those stormy skies (since Dahj/Soji were made 3 years prior to the series, which is long after the Mars attack) and the 'blood red' moons because of the red atmosphere from all the fires...
@@StarTrekTheory If the atmosphere of Mars is on fire I'm pretty sure no one would be living there.
If Surak was a synth howabout these advanced synths see surak as a failure because the romulans fought against it- so they created the borg- humans that can be controlled ???? I don't know
I’m still Convinced there’s more going on under the surface with Surak (all the references to Vulcans by the synths, and the book on surak), and Narek’s comment about ‘before our ancestors arrived on Vulcan’... definitely could be a possibility the Borg tie in somehow centuries ago...
@@StarTrekTheory and you have a synth doing a mind meld --- coincidence?
Now forgive me- the current vulcan is not part of the jj kirk prequal trilogy is it?? - thats a different story line or is it connected? - but from watching enterprise- capt Archer gets the suruk pyramid artifact- there may be more artifacts on the original Vulcan- so I hope it wasn't blown up by bruce banner actor (forgotten his name)
in unification their dialogue between data and spock- and spock says data is what most vulcans inspire to be, devoid of emotion etc - and data replies the opposite that spock is ignoring his human half something data has always wanted.
the vulcan history suggests that vulcans were wild and over emotional and logic saved them- but the romulans don't really show that wildness- and romulans are, (well time has changed them) but romulans are not wild and crazy- they developed their own system and ships and light speed. they have achieved the same technology as the vulcans- so this does put doubt in my mind that surak was as good as they make him out to be.
i really hope that create stories that connect back to previous episodes and not make up some brand new thing for the sake of it. but I love where picard is going
season 2 should be interesting (I hope they froze picards body and corrected the brain issue- so he can jump back in his body at a later stage- yeah I know I am all for equality but I Like picard being a human
Time will tell- I do look forward to the picard woopi reunion tho
@@StarTrekTheory I would love to delve into borg origins tho- with seven and lacutis its a wonderful area to go into.
if the borg were created by the super synths- and now picard is a synth who was previously a borg- thats a very interesting dynamic
@@woodchup Thx for the great comment! Yes, the synth doing the mind meld to me felt weird and possibly a clue...?
I really still think Surak was a synthetic himself and he set the Vulcans on the path to logic. The Romulans were just Vulcan rebels to this new extremist leader and fought to save their own way of life - ultimately losing and leaving the planet. Probably why they are so untrustworthy :). I too really hope they tie back future Picard to old series, let's hope!
@@woodchup Let's hope they explore this aspect more, and the Borg in general, in Season 2!
Irish Romulan •_•
Haha she’s one of the best new characters on the series 😆
@@StarTrekTheory She stated that Romulans didn't work with cybernetics, but in T.N.G. a Romulan embasidor told Data "He knew of alot of Romulan cybernetisist who would love to get there hands on him"... ain't canon a bitch.
The Romulans were never interesting for me. Boring villains and culture until Picard.
Just looked it up on the wiki, just some bullshit about how some psycho robots killed the population of a planet hundreds of thousands of years ago, totally weak story, even for Star Trek.
Probably ripped off Mass Effect
Even if this Theory is True, it's a shame that the series is in the Hands of Inept Writer's.
*Liberal Drek : Discard* - You may not like it, but this title is at least Honest with you about its Narrative...
Feasable yet dumb theory imo. It reeks of the James bond specter plot, where it is revealed that the entirety of the Daniel Craig James bond films were the result of one vengeful character who retroactively takes credit for The the antagonistic plot circumstances of every preceding film. This is an example of Bad and dumb writing. Changing androids have been amongst every organic race subtlety influencing organics since an ancient time? That would undermine everything in star trek (although the kurtzman shit is all fucking heresy, so not that it would matter that much more if this theory proves true). This entire show is a God damn nightmare of a mess - and that's without even fucking mentioning that "ST:Picard" IS A BLATENT, POORLY CONCIEVED AND LAZY RIP OFF OF THE MASS EFFECT FRANCHISE REAPERS-PLOT.
I hate this theory. They did most of this crap already with the Dominion war. Especially with the "They could be anybody" bit.
Wow, that’s just what no one wants to see, TWO crappy shows merged into a CRAPPIER one. This is FAKE Star Trek at it’s worst
Romulans created the borg for sure. Borg and romulans use th same colours, green. Very powerful tech, they cant assimilate romulans etc..