Jonatan Guluarte Yea yet I'm a fan and almost enjoy anything Star Wars related. But I also don't spend my time only looking at negatives or have my own theories about everything. Like hell I can even enjoy the prequels for what they are. But thats why I really enjoyed Last Jedi. As sure theres things I dislike yet I don't decide to focus on them and I enjoyed a lot of what they did. Like I'm not sitting here crying because they didn't go with my fan theory.
Wise Wolf Tony I grew up with both the originals and the prequels, and I don't mind these new movies, I enjoy them. Also I didn't actually expect any fan theory to turn out true
Jonatan Guluarte Same my dad made me sit down and watch the originals when I was like 8 so I loved SW for about 20 yrs. Really I love all things SW sure I really dislike things about the prequels but they also gave me characters like Maul. I really enjoy the nee films but I will say by far my favorite current SW series is Rebels. I love that show so much I have a much deeper connection to the characters as been with them for much longer. And I really just enjoy everything they do from the amazing visuals to the space & ground battles and Saber Duels. They even brought back characters like Ahsoka & Rex from Clone Wars. As well as bringing in Grand Admiral Thrawn from the old cannon which was scrapped. And by far the best is they have Maul return and you get to see how his story ends which it ends in one of my favorite SW moments period topping most everything ive seen even in the films. So I'm all for Disney and what they have been doing even more so as I heard they plan to make a Obi Wan film with McGregor returning to the role as he's probably my favorite character from SW.
@man0z Yeah bud. This is Australia. We actually have a legit communist party. So we aren't exactly scared by an ideal that to be honest is only now really feared by a country that still think The Cold War is still a thing. I'm guessing that would blow the minds of a lot of yanks. But you have to understand that Australia, like a lot of other democratic countries, actually understand that you can have more than 2 parties. It may also shock you that The Communist Party of Australia has no representation in government, EVEN after the so called "SoCiALiSt LiBeRaL AgEnDa", that was The Last Jedi. Maybe the people in the U.S. pick their government via forms of entertainment, as we saw with the election of a b-grade film actor as President, but for other countries, we kinda choose people more qualified. It's shocking, I know. Imagine having more than ONE choice. Especially when the only 2 choices you have are like being able to choose between getting turked by a elephant, or turked by a donkey. Funny enough, some of us would just prefer not to get rectally relieved. Also, a lot of other countries have moved to the metric system. Because, yeah, for a lot of us, being sensible is more important that being patriotic to outdated ideals that might have made sense 200 years ago, but are kinda antediluvian now....
Looking back on it, it’s truly hilarious that all the fan backlash to The Last Jedi gave us Rise of Skywalker which is definitely a much worse movie and I think that’s pretty funny
I have problems with both TFA and TLJ but overall mostly enjoy them but when it comes to TRoS I really struggle to find any positives whatsoever. It felt like JJ Abrams wasn't even trying.
@SubwoofBarks no, the trilogy didn't need any more Snoke. It would've been way more interesting to see someone as unhinged as Kylo control an entire army. But JJ and friends felt obligated to give him yet another overseer, diminishing his true self and his capabilities.
@@shelbyvillerules9962I genuinely don’t understand this perspective… it’s very apparent to me that JJ, Terrio and everyone involved poured their hearts into TROS and it’s a fantastic film that wrapped up the entire saga beautifully.
50:30 Porgs were actually a solution for a real life problem. Shooting on Skellig Michael, they couldn't avoid having the occasional puffin in the back of the shot. So Porgs as something to superimpose over the puffins. Then they just integrated them into the rest of the film a bit.
Our last hero I think thats his point that after that long people and the world aren't going to be the same. Just because its Star Wars doesn't mean that everything needs to be exactly how it was 40 years ago.
To answer your Hux question, yeah you basically nailed it. His dad was one of the founding members of the First Order and a high ranking imperial general prior to that.
Mike And that's why Snoke probably put him where he did. As he was probably someone very easy to control, manipulate and motivate. As I would imagine he would want to either live up to his fathers name or get out from under his shadow. It's basically the same thing with Kylo as he used Vader as a way to try and control him. Its smart to put those types in positions of power as you know they will be motivated. Its just you also have to look out for them then turning around and deciding to want to climb higher or not be your puppet anymore like Kylo.
Luke never was a flippy guy because he wasn't trained to be. In the prequels the Jedi trained all the time. Luke barely got any training, not to mention he was already an adult when he started. You can't suddenly train in gymnastics at 21.
Also i think everyone always forgets about the retelling of the Luke/Young Ben scene. When Luke is telling it, the story is pretty different from how Kylo saw it
They should have taken a different direction with Finn/Rose's sidestory, which was really sub-par, and probably make the humor less prequel-y, but other than that it was a really enjoyable movie. I can even disregard the weird sequence with Leia supermaning herself through space, even though that didn't feel right at all. Everything with Rey, Luke, and Kylo Ren was incredible!!
I love this podcast dearly. Thank you mr sunday and the infamous MASO for doing what you do. This weekly gift has given me many laughs and i have enjoyed the goods from your various sponsors in support of such wondrous content. You are two beautiful human beings.
YES! PRECISELY! He made one with the force to get the upper hand and outsmart his Dark Nephew, who he knew is still naive and blinded by anger. That was brilliant
ZedK49 Yea like I saw anger joe bitching his head off about how dumb it was that Kylo couldn't see threw his trick. Yet jesus do they not pay attention at how blinded he was with rage. Like fuck even me someone just watching the film didn't realize that he wasn't really there until the light saber went threw him. Yet looking back on it you can see this smug ass grin on Lukes face when they show both of them changing their stance and how it focuses on the salt moving. And after that you see Luke grin thinking to himself Kylo won't see threw any of this until I want him to. Like hell say if Kylo just fired at him once or twice from those new AT-AT then he probably would have been able to see them go straight threw Luke. But instead his Rage lead him to fire them all off at once.
Krk Patterson Well it did seem to rain a lot on that Island so he could always collect that. But hey maybe thats some really tasty milk so who am I to judge.
Krk Patterson I didn't mind that scene. He clearly wants to gross her out to make her go away... and he can use the nutrients. I dunno why that scene gets hated on so much.
@@lazygenie5616 I consider myself a massive Star Wars fan (grew up watching the OT on VHS) and I think The Last Jedi is the first time I've wholly loved the series in years. That could be because I hate the awful prequel trilogy.
@@peanutbutterrobot Lukes character arc paid off. It was a risk to do what they did with his character. Reys parents reveal (at least until JJ ruined it in TROS). Poes mission at the beginning paid off with his arc. Finn leaving paid off in him cementing himself as a hero. TLJ was genuinly amazing, I have no idea how a small pocket of people on the internet hate it so much lol
@@doctordisco2980 lmao a small pocket? Most people who have seen good movies knows that ain't it. My girlfriend watched in cinema who just previously watched all the other star wars movies totally thought it was trash
A bleeped Deadpool movie with those digitized windows to block nudity could be the most hilarious thing of all. The whole movie he would keep trying to sneak it in, he would comment on his one "fuck" he can say in a PG-13, and he'd be comically miserable the whole time. You could even use it as an excuse for why he doesn't kill the villain at the end. "It's not worth it if you're not even gonna show it..." One camera would catch him trying to bribe one of the other cameramen to let something through. You could do this once, and it would kill.
I'll say this before hearing their review, but The Last Jedi somehow had the best and worst moments of the entire saga simultaneously. I give it a "It's just a movie" rating.
Trilbydood SPOILERS Leia flying through space, Snoke's death and not learning anything about him, Admiral Holdo not telling Poe her plan, Finn and Rose subplot, Rey's parents being "nobody" reveal, etc.
I have been trying to describe this movie to friends and haven’t been able to. This is the perfect summary. Also agree with every single one of your problems with the film aha.
I don't get why people watch Star Wars and just want the same thing. Why do Star Wars movies have to follow the Skywalkers? We've had 6 movies of them, let's explore some new things in this universe. Plus, Kylo is in that family anyway so the criticism doesn't make sense. And why isn't anyone allowed to touch Luke? Did people seriously want to go in and see Luke be the pinnacle of the Jedi and humanity? Presenting him as flawed and someone who makes mistakes is much more interesting than making him perfect simply because George Lucas said it and you like him a lot.
Well maybe thats a part why some are upset. We have Rey who seemingly can do everything better than most without training. Then we have characters with years of training and adventures and gathered fandom irl..they go down pretty easily and not as good/strong as Rey. Seems a bit off I have to give the complainers that.
lucri988 Yet nobody had any beef with Luke who has been training for a very limited amount of time being able to then go toe to toe with Vader at any point in the series. Like Vader had decades of training both as a Jedi and then as a Sith. Yet Luke in the 3rd film was able to take him down fairly easily. Like can't people pick up and learn things quicker then others. Why should every Jedi need to under go extensive training to be able to do certain tasks. Like really how much has she even done with the force like really is lifting up a pile of rocks that impressive or something we think she should need months or years of training to be able to accomplish.
Showing Luke as a broken man is fine. But stay consistent to the story. The guy wouldn’t even kill Vader. But yeah lets go kill my teenage nephew whom I clearly know is being seduced by Snoke who by the way is a pointless character.
Wise Wolf Tony Sure I get your points. Rey was better than Han at fixing (and flying?) the Falcon, for no apparent reason. Just because. Luke did train for years with Yoda and Ben before the final showdown with Vader. I always thought Vader went easy on Luke because they wanted him turned to the dark side, not killed. That's what Palpatine says anyway.. Luke also tapped into dark side in that moment + 'mighty Skywalker blood' :P. I see what you mean and I kinda agree. But there are more..explanations, for Luke than Rey. Reys character is pretty boring.. Kylo is way more interesting as he is a flawed character (my opinion).
lucri988 Yea I don't particularly like Rey as a character all that much either. And Kylo is a lot more interesting. To me the film was neither amazing nor terrible just a solid film I enjoyed. Will say I'm looking a lot more forward to see how the series Rebels ends compared to the films. As I love that series it has so many great battles and moments in it. As well as fully fleshed out characters. Like that series has had so many amazing moments such as Thrawn being brought into this universe, Ahsoka vs Vader, Rex from clone wars returning and my fav getting to see the end of Maul's story. Like I care 10x more about how Kanan & Hera journey will end then I do about Rey & Finn. Like the series benefits from having much more time to flesh things out. But still the films could do better with Rey character as they have done well with smaller characters.
All my friends and my wife and I all enjoyed it, and we'll be watching it again Wednesday. We may all think alike because we're friends but as far as I've seen only whiny people in comment sections haven't liked it lol.
Someone who doesn't like something is just whiny now huh? Personally, I really liked some aspects of it and really disliked others. I guess a positive movie experience on the whole but a disappointment as an entry in the main Star Wars saga.
Rhetro Active that's not what I said, a majority of people I've seen saying that they don't like it are whiny. That does not mean that if you didn't like it you are whiny. I enjoyed that it finally included things that were only hinted at in the books, but what's the point of all these canon books if they're not going to use that information. I think that aspect of the movie is what lost a lot of older fans, but I enjoyed it.
in the Empire Strikes Back, he was masquerading his initial goofyness. in this movie, he actually went insane. I guess 30 years alone dead does that to you.
About "the dice". Solo's dice. Leia's dead husbands dice. The dice of the dead husband being handed to her by her long lost brother who's is now about to go on a suicide mission-dice. Those "dice'. They end up "ON THE FLOOR"? I guess she just tossed them over her shoulder.
I think 911 is the film where Halle Berry is the 911 operator who gets a call from a girl being kidnapped in the trunk of a car and saves her at the end
I still don't think Luke would even consider killing Ben, especially before he had even turned. It totally disregards his entire arc of the whole first trilogy, in which he realises his father still has good in him, and realised violence was not the solution, and would have been an action approved by the Emperor. I think wanting to stop that again immediately by killing Ben is irrelevant. I still argue it's against his character.
The first two lines of dialogue in the Force Awakens official trailer were "Who are you?" -Maz "I'm no one." -Rey 36:47 "I told you, it was in the trailer."
Also an intersting lightsaber tidbit. im pretty sure ben's jedi lightsaber was anakins meaning in force awakens when he said "that lightsaber belongs to me" he was being literal.
I think it would've been good if Finn had died. Even if it had been a pointless death, that's the point. They're a small resistance against the super powerful first order, not every sacrifice will lead to victory, sometimes people just die without meaning.
Biggest plot hole in the film, which says a lot considering this plot, when the decoder sold out the resistance, how does he know the resistance's plan? Finn and Rose don't know the plan because the only person who knew the plan was the purple hair lady.
Sean Gallagher Poe contacts them and tells them about Hodor planning to get everyone in the transports. He doesn't know about them going to the mineral planet, though. But even when the First Order checks out the story, they only confirm that they are leaving in transports, so it may not be a plot hole.
But Finn and Rose were never told the plan because they were only in communication with Poe who was unconscious when we as the audience were told they planned to cloak the ships.
NO, GO WATCH THE MOVIE AGAIN, poe contacted Finn and Rose BEFORE the mutiny and DJ over heard him say that haldo was planning on evacuating the ship with the smaller transports
Oh I must have missed it, regardless I'm still not a fan of the movie. I should probably give it another watch but I just don't have the motivation to go through it again.
Watch this review again reminds me of why I disliked Rise of Skywalker so damn much. As the things I loved the most about TLJ. Were basically just thrown away and then pissed on by JJ or anyone else who had a say in this film. Like you guys I loved that Rey was just a nobody for the first time in the main franchise the MC was just a nobody. As Anakin was just Space Jesus and then Luke was his son. Yet instead of sticking with that and Rey being just some girl who parents dumped her on some shit planet. But no instead of sticking with it they had to be like actually she's related to Palpatine. I still don't know in which way as what what Rey even be to Palpatine if she's the daughter of a Clone of his. And then they also do the whole no Snoke was actually just some created living being that Palpatine was controlling the entire time. Also disliked that turned Kylo back to the light side. I mean I would have been fine with it if they did it in a better way. But still was hoping his actions in the later stages of TLJ were them cementing him as a villain who will never be swayed to join the light side. Then it's never a good thing when the battle at the start of TLJ was better then the climatic battle of the last film in this trilogy. And that ending just had me cringing and rolling my eyes so hard. When she's asked what her last name is and she say's Skywalker. Killing the entire point the movie was trying to make which is it doesn't matter who you are. But it obviously does enough for Rey not to be known as a Palpatine and would rather be known as a Skywalker.
Glad you guys liked it! It wasn't for me, and Palpatine back for the next one just checked me out of the new trilogy all together. Of the last 7 I have enjoyed rogue one and the last 2 prequels. That said their is nothing wrong with them just not being for me.
Why is it that when Mason goes "Mmmmh!" during the deminting of the All In, I imagine him rubbing it all into his beard. Also, was on the fence about TLJ but looking at all the stupid things they did in the now Legends...I am now fine with everything beside that Leia thing.
Finally bloody gave in and listened to this glorious podcast! If Finn and Rose were supposed to be a romantic thing, i hope they had more chemistry than Finn and Poe. I saw Finn and Rose as those classmates who get assigned to work on a project together and they're just kinda chill.
I loved everything in the last Jedi except Luke because at the end of Return of the Jedi Luke says “I am a Jedi like my father before me” and they just threw it away
Josh Kaid Well, according to The Last Jedi: no. No they can't. The good guys are good because they're good. And the bad guys are bad because they're bad. And changing that would upset "the balance", so it can't be done.
If anything The Last Jedi has more moral nuance and ambiguity than the OT ever did. In the OT the bad guys are very much bad because they're bad, and the good guys are very much good because they're good. That's because the OT was about the battle between good vs evil more so than an exploration of moral grayness. In this movie we have a villain, Kylo Ren, who is constantly torn between the light and dark side, someone whose very character embodies conflict and whose descent into darkness wasn't even entirely his own fault. He's definitely not bad just to be bad, he's bad because he was let down by his parents, he was let down by his mentor (Luke) and he was manipulated by Snoke. He comes from the Skywalker family, a family that has a complicated history with its allegiance to the force. It also briefly explores the nuance of the resistance and first order getting ships and weapons from the same people, about how war is at the end of the day more than just a fight between what's good and what's evil.
@@nordicjoker6267 "a family that has a complicated history with its allegiance to the force" But I thought you said there wasn't any nuance until the sequels?
Ok. I think the anger has passed, and just the sadness remains. I do appreciate hearing your perspectives. There are things that I "missed"(I am more of the belief that it wasn't presented very well bc you've seen it twice, but whatever). But when I watch movies, I do not go in with a preconceived notion of what I expect or want. I don't need abc and d checked off to make me happy, at least not on a conscious level. I go into movies and wait to see how they make me feel. And this just did not work. Going back and nitpicking what I disliked about the parentage reveal, or some of the humor, or the unneeded commentary, or bad story telling mechanics(this planet has child slaves. hey! there are some being beaten now that you can watch, to drive home my point) is a secondary notion. Going back and reminiscing about the things I liked(rey/kylo, and that moment when you honestly did not know what was going to happen next being so exciting) is secondary. The primary thing is how the movie made me feel during the movie. And I just felt off. And empty. I do not think this works as 'Rian Johnson's unspecified space adventure movie', nor would it have worked if it were Martin Scorsese's Star Wars. This movie, as edited and directed and written, just does not work. I would have loved if it had. I actually really enjoyed the last 2 movies. Not here.
Same, I thought The Force Awakens was great and I don't care that Rey isn't a Skywalker or about stupid details like that. I didn't want fanservice either. I just wanted a good story and world-building.
Zambletons this was a character driven movie however, and if the prequels proved anything it’s that an interesting story is no good if it doesn’t properly service the characters. World building is secondary, and shouldn’t be the objective of a good movie.
Just got to see last Jedi today I bloody loved it the bit where she crashes the ship 🤯my only gripe is no knights of ren!!! Fingers crossed there in the next one
I read all the hate for this movie and remember how Empire was received the exact same way I'm a film student and for me I can say it is an excellent movie, yeah sure, the Leia pulling herself from death in space was weird and the casino sequence was kind of boring. But everything else was fantastic, the characters and the visuals are fucking awesome, the cinematography at a lot of points was really creative and look...none gives a shit about Snoke, I'm happy to see he was written to make Ben the real deal
Amaranth That's not how it's was received, actually what the fuck? I haven't heard a single complain about feminism from The last jedi, why? Because no one cares I meant like: mixed reception, people feeling disapointed, thinking it's too weird
Rose/Finn really fucking sucks I didn't like Rose and them being together just feels super rushed, and don't even get me started on that Poe/Rey thing at the end
Diego Vera Lmao you're such a liar... You were not there for Empire, and you're not a film student. Nobody who knows anything about film, would call this horrible script, "great."
The Avatar Right because a script is the most important thing in a visual medium (sarcasm). What an argurment by the way "ehhhh....ehhh and you are a liar and you are not a film student and you were not there for an event that you can easily search what happened" hope to see you debate with Ben Shapiro in the near future
Do you perhaps see a chance of there being a love story between Ben and Rey, a ReyBen if you will, I think that could be very dramatic and soap opera-esque and fun, and also open up a chance of a sponsorship deal between Ray-Ban and SW. Ray-Ban for Rey-Ben!
can we have a weekly segment were you guys just comment on the problems with organised religion and get really passive agressive about it pleaseeeeeeeee
Fuck no. Now that Disney own 60%, I'm sure they will look to buy the rest of the shares and make THAT their official streaming service (after all, they own the controlling shares and it has an established name with an already paying audience.)
It's possible. Disney could rebrand it as their streaming service, or they may keep the name since Hulu is relatively well known. Heck, they could scrap it entirely. Nobody really knows yet.
the casino scene wasnt needed at all it would have made more sense that bb-8 could hack the door like we've seen droids do countless times before and have them infiltrate snoke's ship. that love story is non-existent. Luke's character on terms of thinking about killing kylo doesnt make a great amount of sense, Luke got himself captured in return of the jedi to save the second most evil person in the galaxy who had already killed countless people because he was family, but what he couldnt even try to save kylo before he even did anything bad? Admiral Holdo not telling poe the plan was a waste of time, rey got little to no training that we saw, now dont get me wrong this isnt prequel bad and i didnt mention snokes death or reys parents cos thats only dissapointing if you went in holding on to a fan theory, but this movie could and should have been so much better and it really wouldnt have taken alot to fix the issues that i see listed above ,
As a standalone film, it was quite enjoyable. However, for the overall arc; a) It seems to totally undercut the end of the original trilogy. Killing Palpatine/Vader and destroying the Death Stars (and even Starkiller base) appears to really have had little impact in stopping the empire/first order. The rebels look to have been completely ineffective in taking advantage of this and Snoke had easily stepped into the power vacuum. b) As with Vader, Kylo is generally portrayed as all brawn and no brains. Sure you'd poop your pants if you met them in a narrow corridor but, in terms of a galaxy wide threat, they seem pretty small fry. Without a Palpatine type Machiavellian figure the dark side just doesn't feel that threatening.
(spoilers for The Last Jedi below) a) This has always been the case in Star Wars, though. War is in the name of the franchise, after the big bad guy has been defeated and order has been restored a new threat always arises. Look at the Old Republic era, the big threat then was the Sith empire. After the Sith were destroyed, there was a time of order and stability, however then Palpatine tricked the Jedi and the Republic and created the Empire. This was even the case in the EU, after the Empire had been destroyed in ROTJ the New Republic still had to deal with the Empire remnants, and eventually the Yuuzhan Vong arose as the new big bad guy that had to be opposed. They address this in KOTOR 2, a game that can be seen as a deconstruction of the entire Star Wars universe, there's always a new threat after the old one has been destroyed. History repeats itself all the time in Star Wars. In the new canon, after the destruction of the Empire, and after the New Republic had kept being at war with the Empire remnants for several years they brokered a peace treaty, and much like the Republic before them they then decided to demilitarize themselves. There was opposition to this demilitarization, Leia was one of the people opposed to it, however the New Republic wanted to usher in a new era of peace. This was a big mistake, as it gave the First Order, essentially a terrorist group formed from the remnants of the Empire and taken over by Snoke, an opportunity to grow and finally be able to start attacking the New Republic. As a direct response to this, the new resistance was founded since the New Republic had been so severely demilitarized. I get that this is never explained in any great depth in the actual movies, but a lot of things in the Star Wars canon never are. At the end of the day I don't find it all that surprising that the New Republic made mistakes and didn't fully realize what a threat the rising First Order actually was. In many ways they succumbed to the same political corruption, games and red tape that the Republic before them did. Don't forget that this New Republic was formed from a rebellion whose only real goal was to overthrow the Empire, which doesn't necessarily make them great rulers. Not to mention that sometimes in life just because you've taken care of a problem it doesn't mean that it isn't going to come back. Sometimes things don't play out the way we expect them to, and while you may feel like this undercuts the victory of the OT, it goes to show that a happy ending isn't always forever. This quote from Orson Welles comes to mind: "If you want a happy ending, that depends, of course, on where you stop your story." b) I'd disagree with this. When Kylo kills Snoke he does so by outsmarting him, not by overpowering him. Snoke's biggest mistake was being too arrogant and underestimating Kylo, he misread his intentions and believed himself to be so powerful and knowledgeable that he couldn't possibly be betrayed like Palpatine before him. This is a common problem with Sith lords and powerful dark side users in general, and I think Kylo defeating Snoke this way fits well into the theme of letting the past die. We've already seen Palpatine-esque characters with great power as villains in Star Wars, it's about time that we get a villain that might not be as grand or powerful, but more intriguing. When we first met Kylo in TFA, he was essentially just a wannabe Vader who was letting himself be manipulated and controlled by Snoke. In this movie I feel like he finally came into his own, and was no longer okay with letting himself be manipulated and controlled by Snoke. His ambitions have now grown from just wanting to be the next Vader, to being the new ruler of the galaxy. I guess you could say that he really did finish what Vader started by successfully betraying Snoke and taking his place, as this is something Vader had wanted to do with Palpatine all the way back in ROTS and throughout the OT. While Kylo might not be as powerful as Snoke or Palpatine, I think he's a far more compelling villain. He has demonstrated that he can be more than just a sidekick, more than just a tool for powerful force users to use, and I'm looking forward to seeing him as the main antagonist of Episode 9 (hopefully). I really hope that they don't try to redeem Kylo, because at this point I think we need to see a character who had the potential to be good, but due to his circumstances (Han and Leia being bad parents, Luke not trusting him, finding out that Vader was his grandfather etc) irreversibly turned to the dark side. While there might've been hope for Kylo to come back, and while he had plenty of chances to do so, he has burned all those bridges and chosen his path.
You could say the same about the prequels then. "What was the point in Palpatine taking over the Galaxy if the Empire would be defeated in 22 years. The time between the fall of the Empire and the rise of the First Order is longer than the entire reign of the Empire so you can't say the originals were all for nothing. The fight to maintain good doesn't end. The Galaxy shouldn't remain tranquil forever because the rebels one once, it should be something you have to fight for to maintain.
sanderflop Yea like in real life are we gonna start saying WW1 was pointless all because a few decades later WW2 happened. Also do people not realize how damn big and far reaching the empire is. Where the Rebels have very few systems or planets that ard aligned with them. Killing the head does very little as another head will soon pop up to take control. I mean look in the real world horrible leaders are over thrown only for who ever overthrew them to turn out to be just as terrible and that keeps happening over and over again.
Don't know whether he'll stick to his word but Benicio Del Toro announced he would stop acting and that this film was his last. Then again, plenty of actors retire and come back for other roles but, he did say that.
The smartest thing to do with the Xmen is use them after Infinity War. They don't have too many storylines to do except for Secret Wars. By introducing mutants, it could be new storylines to have after the Avengers go up against a god.
As someone who loved the original trilogy, prequels, and The Force Awakens, I thought The Last Jedi was bad. It just didn't feel like Star Wars, it felt like a Marvel movie with a Star Wars skin. But that's just me
Re-listening to this podcast as a sort of pre-game for Rise of Skywalker :) curious to know if any of your feelings have changed after 2 years? I too loved TLJ. I always understood SOME of the gripes people had with the movie. Then I re-watched all the originals and prequels the other day and I feel like I understand even more so the fans craving more fan service. But honestly i still love TLJ!
Probably because it ends in the same place it begins, nobody has changed sides, the resistance is weakened and SPOILER Luke and Snoke are non-existent like they were in TFA.
Spoiler When I saw the film in the cinema, in the bit where Holdo hyperspace flies through the supremacy, everyone went silent, then you heard a distant little kid go "Oh my goood!"
I miss the awesome score the movies used to have. I mean, there is obviously the known themes like Leia's Theme or the Force theme, but so far there haven't been any of the epic scores that stood out even while watching the movies. I miss the epicness. (Like e.g. "Duel of the Fates", "Imperial March", "Battle of the Heroes", that love theme from episode 2, that song that plays when Anakin marches into the Jedi temple... )The music that leaves you with goosebumps and the urge to swing a lightsaber. I hope they bring in some new cool themes for the next episode.
You know what would have made it better? Hux trying to order the first order to fire on Kylo while he was distracted down below to try and take Supreme Leader for himself.
sanderflop I think that major thing to look at was he just got forced pushed into a damn wall and was probably out ot commission for a good while. Not to mention even if he wasn't just because he ordered it doesn't mean anybody would even listen to him. As I'm sure all the grunts are far more afraid of someone that can us the force compared to just a another man thats in a higher position of power.
Carrie ws great, but don't say how she was _"an excellent writer"_ when you never read anything she wrote. She never had anything produced other than films she was hired to do drafts on. Come on, man.
I feel like they completely mishandled Luke. For me, it's not about fan boy bullshit. I didn't care about seeing him with his green lightsaber or anything like that, I feel like the idea that he would even CONSIDER murdering his nephew without even talking about it with Han or Leia (or even Ben himself) is just ridiculous. The man wouldn't even strike down the 2nd most evil man in the galaxy in ROTJ.
Yep, true. We've known Luke as a guy with a calm temper who prefers dialogue to violent impulses, especially in RotJ. It was weird that he'd have a vision and consider killing his nephew, even for a split second.
I don't think it's completely out of character for Luke. Back in the OT he was shown to be brash and emotional, he didn't always make the right decisions. In his final fight with Vader he gave into his anger after he mentioned Leia and nearly killed him. He only stopped after chopping off Vader's hand and realizing what path he was headed down. Yoda kept criticizing Luke for being impulsive and reckless. I think Luke explains it pretty well in TLJ, he had a momentary lapse of judgment because of his fear of the dark side rising again. He knew how powerful Ben could be, he knew the complicated history of his family lineage and its allegiance in the force, and for a brief moment he let his fear and distrust of Ben get the best of him, and he had to live with the severe consequences of that. His fear of that possible outcome made it come true, and he couldn't live with that failure. He himself felt like he should've known better, much like you feel the same way. He's a human being like anyone else, he's not perfect, even if he is the "legendary Luke Skywalker".
He didn't kill Vader but he considered it. You're not thinking of the character of Luke as a real person but as your idealised version of him. Real characters have flaws.
Nordic Joker Precisely. And it wasn't like he was going to actually murder Ben. He said he wouldn't have done it... of course he wouldn't. He's Luke Skywalker. I think people just forgot about the Vader fight in ROTJ. It was a close call. He nearly killed Vader, then he stopped and thought. Exactly the same. People seem to compare the Luke in TLJ with Legends Luke, not with the actual Luke we got in the OT.
The tracking device on board the rebel ship was CLEARLY BB-9E! Am I the only one that saw him in the corner of like 2 different shots on the rebel ship?
Nobody hates Star Wars like Star Wars fans. That's totally true.
Jonatan Guluarte Yea yet I'm a fan and almost enjoy anything Star Wars related. But I also don't spend my time only looking at negatives or have my own theories about everything. Like hell I can even enjoy the prequels for what they are. But thats why I really enjoyed Last Jedi. As sure theres things I dislike yet I don't decide to focus on them and I enjoyed a lot of what they did. Like I'm not sitting here crying because they didn't go with my fan theory.
Wise Wolf Tony I grew up with both the originals and the prequels, and I don't mind these new movies, I enjoy them. Also I didn't actually expect any fan theory to turn out true
Jonatan Guluarte
Preach!
Jonatan Guluarte Same my dad made me sit down and watch the originals when I was like 8 so I loved SW for about 20 yrs. Really I love all things SW sure I really dislike things about the prequels but they also gave me characters like Maul. I really enjoy the nee films but I will say by far my favorite current SW series is Rebels. I love that show so much I have a much deeper connection to the characters as been with them for much longer. And I really just enjoy everything they do from the amazing visuals to the space & ground battles and Saber Duels. They even brought back characters like Ahsoka & Rex from Clone Wars. As well as bringing in Grand Admiral Thrawn from the old cannon which was scrapped. And by far the best is they have Maul return and you get to see how his story ends which it ends in one of my favorite SW moments period topping most everything ive seen even in the films. So I'm all for Disney and what they have been doing even more so as I heard they plan to make a Obi Wan film with McGregor returning to the role as he's probably my favorite character from SW.
Wise Wolf Tony thank you
Assuming that anyone who liked something you disliked/disliked something you like is being paid is the definition of narcissism.
man0z or maybe the critics have a higher appreciation for film than the average pissy Star wars fan and aren't as biased as an overall toxic fanbase
@man0z Yeah bud. This is Australia. We actually have a legit communist party. So we aren't exactly scared by an ideal that to be honest is only now really feared by a country that still think The Cold War is still a thing. I'm guessing that would blow the minds of a lot of yanks. But you have to understand that Australia, like a lot of other democratic countries, actually understand that you can have more than 2 parties. It may also shock you that The Communist Party of Australia has no representation in government, EVEN after the so called "SoCiALiSt LiBeRaL AgEnDa", that was The Last Jedi.
Maybe the people in the U.S. pick their government via forms of entertainment, as we saw with the election of a b-grade film actor as President, but for other countries, we kinda choose people more qualified.
It's shocking, I know. Imagine having more than ONE choice. Especially when the only 2 choices you have are like being able to choose between getting turked by a elephant, or turked by a donkey. Funny enough, some of us would just prefer not to get rectally relieved.
Also, a lot of other countries have moved to the metric system. Because, yeah, for a lot of us, being sensible is more important that being patriotic to outdated ideals that might have made sense 200 years ago, but are kinda antediluvian now....
@@RogueBoyScout LMAO you wrote an essay about communism in response to a comment on a Star Wars review
@RogueBoyScout Imagine being such an embarrassing person. You never severe therapy and at least a dozen anti psychotic medications.
Star Wars Episode IX: Attack of the Mack Weldon
Trashlord Unikitten How about Star Wars IX: Return of the Mack... Weldon?
Looking back on it, it’s truly hilarious that all the fan backlash to The Last Jedi gave us Rise of Skywalker which is definitely a much worse movie and I think that’s pretty funny
I have problems with both TFA and TLJ but overall mostly enjoy them but when it comes to TRoS I really struggle to find any positives whatsoever. It felt like JJ Abrams wasn't even trying.
Star Wars fans got the sequel they deserved in RoS
Most of the problems with TROS stem from this movie. If Rian didn't kill Snoke and throw every plot point away it would likely be better.
@SubwoofBarks no, the trilogy didn't need any more Snoke. It would've been way more interesting to see someone as unhinged as Kylo control an entire army. But JJ and friends felt obligated to give him yet another overseer, diminishing his true self and his capabilities.
@@shelbyvillerules9962I genuinely don’t understand this perspective… it’s very apparent to me that JJ, Terrio and everyone involved poured their hearts into TROS and it’s a fantastic film that wrapped up the entire saga beautifully.
50:30 Porgs were actually a solution for a real life problem. Shooting on Skellig Michael, they couldn't avoid having the occasional puffin in the back of the shot. So Porgs as something to superimpose over the puffins. Then they just integrated them into the rest of the film a bit.
Alex Mott Should of just had puffins in the movie.
Why would they suddenly introduce Earth species?
Alex Mott I mean they have humans
meme123 and snakes
Alex Mott That's not the reason. They could have just made the puffins disappear.
The last Jedi feels like a movie set 40 years after the original trilogy.
Legend.
It pretty much is.
Our last hero I think thats his point that after that long people and the world aren't going to be the same. Just because its Star Wars doesn't mean that everything needs to be exactly how it was 40 years ago.
Wise Wolf Tony Yep that's exactly what I meant.
@@wisewolftony No, it must remain in stasis until we watch it lol NO PROGRESSION!!!! lol
If you look closely during the Luke/Kylo battle, "Luke" never leaves any footprints and Kylo does
I noticed that when I watched the movie
@Peter randall very impressive
they literally say this in the review
To answer your Hux question, yeah you basically nailed it. His dad was one of the founding members of the First Order and a high ranking imperial general prior to that.
Mike This!
Mike And that's why Snoke probably put him where he did. As he was probably someone very easy to control, manipulate and motivate. As I would imagine he would want to either live up to his fathers name or get out from under his shadow. It's basically the same thing with Kylo as he used Vader as a way to try and control him. Its smart to put those types in positions of power as you know they will be motivated. Its just you also have to look out for them then turning around and deciding to want to climb higher or not be your puppet anymore like Kylo.
Brendal Hux was some leader
Luke never was a flippy guy because he wasn't trained to be. In the prequels the Jedi trained all the time. Luke barely got any training, not to mention he was already an adult when he started. You can't suddenly train in gymnastics at 21.
RPD well he did a backflip while trying to avoid fighting with Vader
He flew out of the carbonite pit in ESB though
Also, that flippy-fighty stuff from the prequels looks like horseshit, and I'm glad they've moved away from the fighting style in the Disney era.
Very elaborate and logical explanation for this fight scene which no one cares about 😢
Also i think everyone always forgets about the retelling of the Luke/Young Ben scene. When Luke is telling it, the story is pretty different from how Kylo saw it
Definitely, a ton of people still complain about "crazy eyes Luke" and that's literally just the one from Kylo's perspective
They should have taken a different direction with Finn/Rose's sidestory, which was really sub-par, and probably make the humor less prequel-y, but other than that it was a really enjoyable movie. I can even disregard the weird sequence with Leia supermaning herself through space, even though that didn't feel right at all. Everything with Rey, Luke, and Kylo Ren was incredible!!
James's rant about Catholicism is one for the ages.
WHEN IS THAT?
it's during the "hate mail" section at 1:40:46
A man in a dress making people get on their knees? Seems fair.
Boy is it
Yeah, made me raise my fist in the air Breakfast Club-style.
with admiral ackbar gone how are we going to know there are any traps
Also #jediskillz
Craig Johnson Leia warned us about traps first in Empire Strikes Back. Mind you, she’s gone now too, so...
I love this podcast dearly. Thank you mr sunday and the infamous MASO for doing what you do. This weekly gift has given me many laughs and i have enjoyed the goods from your various sponsors in support of such wondrous content. You are two beautiful human beings.
Kolbe William wholesome
Luke's last moment was awesome, idgaf what anyone says. He used the FORCE to defeat his opponents, as opposed to lightsaber tricks n shit
YES! PRECISELY! He made one with the force to get the upper hand and outsmart his Dark Nephew, who he knew is still naive and blinded by anger. That was brilliant
ZedK49 Yea like I saw anger joe bitching his head off about how dumb it was that Kylo couldn't see threw his trick. Yet jesus do they not pay attention at how blinded he was with rage. Like fuck even me someone just watching the film didn't realize that he wasn't really there until the light saber went threw him. Yet looking back on it you can see this smug ass grin on Lukes face when they show both of them changing their stance and how it focuses on the salt moving. And after that you see Luke grin thinking to himself Kylo won't see threw any of this until I want him to. Like hell say if Kylo just fired at him once or twice from those new AT-AT then he probably would have been able to see them go straight threw Luke. But instead his Rage lead him to fire them all off at once.
Wise Wolf Tony AngryJoe thinks Suicide squad is a great movie. His opinion on films should always be taken with a grain of salt
He then died on a rock because he was tired.
Yeah cause no one wants to see lightsaber tricks
He's gotta drink the milk - it's that or salt water, right?
if it's white and tastes salty, its not milk.
it's some... *different* kind of milk.
Krk Patterson Well it did seem to rain a lot on that Island so he could always collect that. But hey maybe thats some really tasty milk so who am I to judge.
Luke grew up on a farm
Krk Patterson I didn't mind that scene. He clearly wants to gross her out to make her go away... and he can use the nutrients. I dunno why that scene gets hated on so much.
The Last Jedi was bloody brilliant mate. Thoroughly enjoyed it dont @ me
@Steven
Thanks bud :D lol
Steven I'll @ you, I completely agree.
Steven @me
@@@Steven!
“Ill bet my life.. I’ll bet Nick Mason’s life that those Dice ..” 😂 I died right then
Im not that big on star wars, but the more I think about this movie the more I like it. It's now one of my top 10 best sci-fi movies ever.
Because your not a Star Wars fan!!
Don't listen to the dude above. It was great movie. All these over dramatic outrage over TLJ
@@lazygenie5616 I consider myself a massive Star Wars fan (grew up watching the OT on VHS) and I think The Last Jedi is the first time I've wholly loved the series in years. That could be because I hate the awful prequel trilogy.
Also, Luke probably has a dufflebag full of lightsabers on his island from all the dead Jedi he was training
unless he buried them with the bodies
I loved the movie, wasn't perfect but it took a lot of risks and most of which paid off.
what paid off?it was awful
@@peanutbutterrobot it took risks that TFA and TROS should have had the balls to do instead of just recycling the OT and coddling fan nostalgia.
@@peanutbutterrobot Lukes character arc paid off. It was a risk to do what they did with his character. Reys parents reveal (at least until JJ ruined it in TROS). Poes mission at the beginning paid off with his arc. Finn leaving paid off in him cementing himself as a hero. TLJ was genuinly amazing, I have no idea how a small pocket of people on the internet hate it so much lol
@@doctordisco2980 agreed
@@doctordisco2980 lmao a small pocket? Most people who have seen good movies knows that ain't it. My girlfriend watched in cinema who just previously watched all the other star wars movies totally thought it was trash
A bleeped Deadpool movie with those digitized windows to block nudity could be the most hilarious thing of all. The whole movie he would keep trying to sneak it in, he would comment on his one "fuck" he can say in a PG-13, and he'd be comically miserable the whole time. You could even use it as an excuse for why he doesn't kill the villain at the end. "It's not worth it if you're not even gonna show it..." One camera would catch him trying to bribe one of the other cameramen to let something through.
You could do this once, and it would kill.
Murder! Got him!
I'll say this before hearing their review, but The Last Jedi somehow had the best and worst moments of the entire saga simultaneously. I give it a "It's just a movie" rating.
you read my mind
what would you say the worst moment was?
Completely agree. It is the best yet one of the worst Star Wars movies at the same time.
Trilbydood SPOILERS
Leia flying through space, Snoke's death and not learning anything about him, Admiral Holdo not telling Poe her plan, Finn and Rose subplot, Rey's parents being "nobody" reveal, etc.
I have been trying to describe this movie to friends and haven’t been able to. This is the perfect summary. Also agree with every single one of your problems with the film aha.
1:18:00 damn james with the 17 brain wisdom. I know im 3 years late to this video but i love these guys lol
Every week you guys remind me why I love you so much
I don't get why people watch Star Wars and just want the same thing. Why do Star Wars movies have to follow the Skywalkers? We've had 6 movies of them, let's explore some new things in this universe. Plus, Kylo is in that family anyway so the criticism doesn't make sense. And why isn't anyone allowed to touch Luke? Did people seriously want to go in and see Luke be the pinnacle of the Jedi and humanity? Presenting him as flawed and someone who makes mistakes is much more interesting than making him perfect simply because George Lucas said it and you like him a lot.
Well maybe thats a part why some are upset. We have Rey who seemingly can do everything better than most without training. Then we have characters with years of training and adventures and gathered fandom irl..they go down pretty easily and not as good/strong as Rey. Seems a bit off I have to give the complainers that.
lucri988 Yet nobody had any beef with Luke who has been training for a very limited amount of time being able to then go toe to toe with Vader at any point in the series. Like Vader had decades of training both as a Jedi and then as a Sith. Yet Luke in the 3rd film was able to take him down fairly easily. Like can't people pick up and learn things quicker then others. Why should every Jedi need to under go extensive training to be able to do certain tasks. Like really how much has she even done with the force like really is lifting up a pile of rocks that impressive or something we think she should need months or years of training to be able to accomplish.
Showing Luke as a broken man is fine. But stay consistent to the story. The guy wouldn’t even kill Vader. But yeah lets go kill my teenage nephew whom I clearly know is being seduced by Snoke who by the way is a pointless character.
Wise Wolf Tony Sure I get your points. Rey was better than Han at fixing (and flying?) the Falcon, for no apparent reason. Just because. Luke did train for years with Yoda and Ben before the final showdown with Vader. I always thought Vader went easy on Luke because they wanted him turned to the dark side, not killed. That's what Palpatine says anyway.. Luke also tapped into dark side in that moment + 'mighty Skywalker blood' :P. I see what you mean and I kinda agree. But there are more..explanations, for Luke than Rey. Reys character is pretty boring.. Kylo is way more interesting as he is a flawed character (my opinion).
lucri988 Yea I don't particularly like Rey as a character all that much either. And Kylo is a lot more interesting. To me the film was neither amazing nor terrible just a solid film I enjoyed. Will say I'm looking a lot more forward to see how the series Rebels ends compared to the films. As I love that series it has so many great battles and moments in it. As well as fully fleshed out characters. Like that series has had so many amazing moments such as Thrawn being brought into this universe, Ahsoka vs Vader, Rex from clone wars returning and my fav getting to see the end of Maul's story. Like I care 10x more about how Kanan & Hera journey will end then I do about Rey & Finn. Like the series benefits from having much more time to flesh things out. But still the films could do better with Rey character as they have done well with smaller characters.
All my friends and my wife and I all enjoyed it, and we'll be watching it again Wednesday. We may all think alike because we're friends but as far as I've seen only whiny people in comment sections haven't liked it lol.
Someone who doesn't like something is just whiny now huh? Personally, I really liked some aspects of it and really disliked others. I guess a positive movie experience on the whole but a disappointment as an entry in the main Star Wars saga.
Rhetro Active that's not what I said, a majority of people I've seen saying that they don't like it are whiny. That does not mean that if you didn't like it you are whiny. I enjoyed that it finally included things that were only hinted at in the books, but what's the point of all these canon books if they're not going to use that information. I think that aspect of the movie is what lost a lot of older fans, but I enjoyed it.
I wish Finn and Poe had more time together. They seem like really good friends but we see so little of that friendship.
Poor James and Mason. Little did we all know what ass pull was to await us in the next film...
Yoda looked wierd to me initially but I got past it
Trashlord Unikitten I couldn't understand him at all and he looked weird. Did his Force Ghost age?
in the Empire Strikes Back, he was masquerading his initial goofyness. in this movie, he actually went insane. I guess 30 years alone dead does that to you.
About "the dice". Solo's dice. Leia's dead husbands dice. The dice of the dead husband being handed to her by her long lost brother who's is now about to go on a suicide mission-dice. Those "dice'. They end up "ON THE FLOOR"?
I guess she just tossed them over her shoulder.
I think she knew he wasn't really there
@@michaelbrice5169 Yeah she would've noticed his trick when he kissed her forehead and she couldn't really feel it
I think 911 is the film where Halle Berry is the 911 operator who gets a call from a girl being kidnapped in the trunk of a car and saves her at the end
Brandon Davis I think it was called Emergency Call or something :/
I thought that was "The Call".
911 is a new show on Fox
Apparently it was an inside job
do an EVERY EASTER EGG for ready player one when it comes out!
that would be longer than the movie
No
I still don't think Luke would even consider killing Ben, especially before he had even turned. It totally disregards his entire arc of the whole first trilogy, in which he realises his father still has good in him, and realised violence was not the solution, and would have been an action approved by the Emperor. I think wanting to stop that again immediately by killing Ben is irrelevant. I still argue it's against his character.
The idea of Mark Hamill in a Coen Brothers film makes me happier than most ideas.
Is it possible to download this podcast??
The first two lines of dialogue in the Force Awakens official trailer were
"Who are you?" -Maz
"I'm no one." -Rey
36:47 "I told you, it was in the trailer."
Holy sh*t I was at the midnight screening for the last Jedi at Knox city. Holy sh*t that's cool
Star Wars: Electric Boogaloo
1:37:05 "This is something completely different THEN the original trilogy."
Literally next H8 comment, "Another rehash of the original trilogy!"
"They're still going to be doing fiction, Mason, if you know what I'm talking about..." #gold
Interesting thoughts! Thanks for sharing guys!
39:00 he played the Trickster in the Flash tv show and I didn't even realise it was him.
I'm so glad my google home device can play this podcast. Makes the investment worth it
You'll lie for money? I'll give you 4 quid to say "chickens have got teeth"
"Wolves do in fact... have hands."
10$ us
Rigamonti fancy seeing you here!
Gregory B Yea mate, getting in the jokes everywhere today!
Daniel Clark-hughes ill pay $10 usd to say earth is round
Rigamonti, you have a head.
Now, where's my money?
That religious rant was spot on hahaha, love it
Spoiler: the green lightsaber is in Luke tent, at the beginning scene, is hanging broken you can see the cristal. 80% sure
Also an intersting lightsaber tidbit. im pretty sure ben's jedi lightsaber was anakins meaning in force awakens when he said "that lightsaber belongs to me" he was being literal.
I think it would've been good if Finn had died. Even if it had been a pointless death, that's the point. They're a small resistance against the super powerful first order, not every sacrifice will lead to victory, sometimes people just die without meaning.
Noice content, boi. It's my highlight of every Monday
That Fox zinger. 😂
Are you going to sign the box!
Is it the one that you already opened;) like used stuff lol
Biggest plot hole in the film, which says a lot considering this plot, when the decoder sold out the resistance, how does he know the resistance's plan? Finn and Rose don't know the plan because the only person who knew the plan was the purple hair lady.
Sean Gallagher Poe contacts them and tells them about Hodor planning to get everyone in the transports. He doesn't know about them going to the mineral planet, though. But even when the First Order checks out the story, they only confirm that they are leaving in transports, so it may not be a plot hole.
Sean Gallagher They told him the plan after they came to trust him. You think he just walked into a heist pln without an exit location....no.
But Finn and Rose were never told the plan because they were only in communication with Poe who was unconscious when we as the audience were told they planned to cloak the ships.
NO, GO WATCH THE MOVIE AGAIN, poe contacted Finn and Rose BEFORE the mutiny and DJ over heard him say that haldo was planning on evacuating the ship with the smaller transports
Oh I must have missed it, regardless I'm still not a fan of the movie. I should probably give it another watch but I just don't have the motivation to go through it again.
Watch this review again reminds me of why I disliked Rise of Skywalker so damn much. As the things I loved the most about TLJ. Were basically just thrown away and then pissed on by JJ or anyone else who had a say in this film. Like you guys I loved that Rey was just a nobody for the first time in the main franchise the MC was just a nobody. As Anakin was just Space Jesus and then Luke was his son. Yet instead of sticking with that and Rey being just some girl who parents dumped her on some shit planet. But no instead of sticking with it they had to be like actually she's related to Palpatine. I still don't know in which way as what what Rey even be to Palpatine if she's the daughter of a Clone of his. And then they also do the whole no Snoke was actually just some created living being that Palpatine was controlling the entire time. Also disliked that turned Kylo back to the light side. I mean I would have been fine with it if they did it in a better way. But still was hoping his actions in the later stages of TLJ were them cementing him as a villain who will never be swayed to join the light side. Then it's never a good thing when the battle at the start of TLJ was better then the climatic battle of the last film in this trilogy. And that ending just had me cringing and rolling my eyes so hard. When she's asked what her last name is and she say's Skywalker. Killing the entire point the movie was trying to make which is it doesn't matter who you are. But it obviously does enough for Rey not to be known as a Palpatine and would rather be known as a Skywalker.
Now you know what it felt like are you expecting empathy or sympathy?
Great episode! Really like this movie and you're analysis, speacially when you talk about whay yoda said about jedi's dogma
Glad you guys liked it! It wasn't for me, and Palpatine back for the next one just checked me out of the new trilogy all together. Of the last 7 I have enjoyed rogue one and the last 2 prequels. That said their is nothing wrong with them just not being for me.
1:12:00 BB-8 was who got them caught. His evil cousin saw BB-8 stumbling around under the trash can.
Why is it that when Mason goes "Mmmmh!" during the deminting of the All In, I imagine him rubbing it all into his beard.
Also, was on the fence about TLJ but looking at all the stupid things they did in the now Legends...I am now fine with everything beside that Leia thing.
i always get so hype to watch the movie listening to this :D😀
I agree with ya'll 100% i thought i was alone with my thought of the movie!
The cave scene with the mirrors made me think Luke had a similar experience in the cave and learned to force project that way.
Finally bloody gave in and listened to this glorious podcast! If Finn and Rose were supposed to be a romantic thing, i hope they had more chemistry than Finn and Poe. I saw Finn and Rose as those classmates who get assigned to work on a project together and they're just kinda chill.
I loved everything in the last Jedi except Luke because at the end of Return of the Jedi Luke says “I am a Jedi like my father before me” and they just threw it away
Rowan Dangerfield And we all know people can't change their minds.
Josh Kaid Well, according to The Last Jedi: no. No they can't. The good guys are good because they're good. And the bad guys are bad because they're bad. And changing that would upset "the balance", so it can't be done.
If anything The Last Jedi has more moral nuance and ambiguity than the OT ever did. In the OT the bad guys are very much bad because they're bad, and the good guys are very much good because they're good. That's because the OT was about the battle between good vs evil more so than an exploration of moral grayness. In this movie we have a villain, Kylo Ren, who is constantly torn between the light and dark side, someone whose very character embodies conflict and whose descent into darkness wasn't even entirely his own fault. He's definitely not bad just to be bad, he's bad because he was let down by his parents, he was let down by his mentor (Luke) and he was manipulated by Snoke. He comes from the Skywalker family, a family that has a complicated history with its allegiance to the force. It also briefly explores the nuance of the resistance and first order getting ships and weapons from the same people, about how war is at the end of the day more than just a fight between what's good and what's evil.
Only a sith deals in absolutes
@@nordicjoker6267 "a family that has a complicated history with its allegiance to the force"
But I thought you said there wasn't any nuance until the sequels?
Thank you mason for correcting his pronunciation of the last later of the alphabet because it's Zed
1:35:42 "What do they want from Phasma?"
Snu Snu. The answer is Snu Snu.
You're welcome.
Ok. I think the anger has passed, and just the sadness remains. I do appreciate hearing your perspectives. There are things that I "missed"(I am more of the belief that it wasn't presented very well bc you've seen it twice, but whatever). But when I watch movies, I do not go in with a preconceived notion of what I expect or want. I don't need abc and d checked off to make me happy, at least not on a conscious level. I go into movies and wait to see how they make me feel. And this just did not work. Going back and nitpicking what I disliked about the parentage reveal, or some of the humor, or the unneeded commentary, or bad story telling mechanics(this planet has child slaves. hey! there are some being beaten now that you can watch, to drive home my point) is a secondary notion. Going back and reminiscing about the things I liked(rey/kylo, and that moment when you honestly did not know what was going to happen next being so exciting) is secondary. The primary thing is how the movie made me feel during the movie. And I just felt off. And empty. I do not think this works as 'Rian Johnson's unspecified space adventure movie', nor would it have worked if it were Martin Scorsese's Star Wars. This movie, as edited and directed and written, just does not work. I would have loved if it had. I actually really enjoyed the last 2 movies. Not here.
Same, I thought The Force Awakens was great and I don't care that Rey isn't a Skywalker or about stupid details like that. I didn't want fanservice either. I just wanted a good story and world-building.
Zambletons this was a character driven movie however, and if the prequels proved anything it’s that an interesting story is no good if it doesn’t properly service the characters. World building is secondary, and shouldn’t be the objective of a good movie.
Just got to see last Jedi today I bloody loved it the bit where she crashes the ship 🤯my only gripe is no knights of ren!!! Fingers crossed there in the next one
I read all the hate for this movie and remember how Empire was received the exact same way
I'm a film student and for me I can say it is an excellent movie, yeah sure, the Leia pulling herself from death in space was weird and the casino sequence was kind of boring. But everything else was fantastic, the characters and the visuals are fucking awesome, the cinematography at a lot of points was really creative and look...none gives a shit about Snoke, I'm happy to see he was written to make Ben the real deal
They blamed feminism for Empire, too? Woah.
Amaranth That's not how it's was received, actually what the fuck? I haven't heard a single complain about feminism from The last jedi, why? Because no one cares
I meant like: mixed reception, people feeling disapointed, thinking it's too weird
Rose/Finn really fucking sucks I didn't like Rose and them being together just feels super rushed, and don't even get me started on that Poe/Rey thing at the end
Diego Vera Lmao you're such a liar... You were not there for Empire, and you're not a film student. Nobody who knows anything about film, would call this horrible script, "great."
The Avatar Right because a script is the most important thing in a visual medium (sarcasm). What an argurment by the way "ehhhh....ehhh and you are a liar and you are not a film student and you were not there for an event that you can easily search what happened" hope to see you debate with Ben Shapiro in the near future
I don't remember, What was the bet?
Mr Sunday is the kinda guy to point the Jedi Challenge lightsaber at his face and be disappointed that it doesn’t cut his face off.
Do you perhaps see a chance of there being a love story between Ben and Rey, a ReyBen if you will, I think that could be very dramatic and soap opera-esque and fun, and also open up a chance of a sponsorship deal between Ray-Ban and SW. Ray-Ban for Rey-Ben!
This is funny looking back, we never got that RayBan sponsorship did we?
can we have a weekly segment were you guys just comment on the problems with organised religion and get really passive agressive about it pleaseeeeeeeee
Maybe Rian Johnson will do a Reven Trilogy, what would you think about that!?
Is Hulu shutting down?
Fuck no. Now that Disney own 60%, I'm sure they will look to buy the rest of the shares and make THAT their official streaming service (after all, they own the controlling shares and it has an established name with an already paying audience.)
Krk Patterson yes
It's possible. Disney could rebrand it as their streaming service, or they may keep the name since Hulu is relatively well known. Heck, they could scrap it entirely. Nobody really knows yet.
its not a great movie, great acting but terrible writing, half the story either makes no sense or is a complete waste of time
Bearded Nerd it's basically filler before JJ comes back
I thought it was cool how there was no clear good or bad. Everyone was kinda all over the place.
Ben Marty Peter Parker That's horrible
Grim Looters That's so cool bruv, I wish I had a blast with this movie too, I was really looking forward to it
the casino scene wasnt needed at all it would have made more sense that bb-8 could hack the door like we've seen droids do countless times before and have them infiltrate snoke's ship. that love story is non-existent. Luke's character on terms of thinking about killing kylo doesnt make a great amount of sense, Luke got himself captured in return of the jedi to save the second most evil person in the galaxy who had already killed countless people because he was family, but what he couldnt even try to save kylo before he even did anything bad? Admiral Holdo not telling poe the plan was a waste of time, rey got little to no training that we saw, now dont get me wrong this isnt prequel bad and i didnt mention snokes death or reys parents cos thats only dissapointing if you went in holding on to a fan theory, but this movie could and should have been so much better and it really wouldnt have taken alot to fix the issues that i see listed above ,
As a standalone film, it was quite enjoyable. However, for the overall arc;
a) It seems to totally undercut the end of the original trilogy. Killing Palpatine/Vader and destroying the Death Stars (and even Starkiller base) appears to really have had little impact in stopping the empire/first order. The rebels look to have been completely ineffective in taking advantage of this and Snoke had easily stepped into the power vacuum.
b) As with Vader, Kylo is generally portrayed as all brawn and no brains. Sure you'd poop your pants if you met them in a narrow corridor but, in terms of a galaxy wide threat, they seem pretty small fry. Without a Palpatine type Machiavellian figure the dark side just doesn't feel that threatening.
(spoilers for The Last Jedi below)
a) This has always been the case in Star Wars, though. War is in the name of the franchise, after the big bad guy has been defeated and order has been restored a new threat always arises. Look at the Old Republic era, the big threat then was the Sith empire. After the Sith were destroyed, there was a time of order and stability, however then Palpatine tricked the Jedi and the Republic and created the Empire. This was even the case in the EU, after the Empire had been destroyed in ROTJ the New Republic still had to deal with the Empire remnants, and eventually the Yuuzhan Vong arose as the new big bad guy that had to be opposed. They address this in KOTOR 2, a game that can be seen as a deconstruction of the entire Star Wars universe, there's always a new threat after the old one has been destroyed. History repeats itself all the time in Star Wars. In the new canon, after the destruction of the Empire, and after the New Republic had kept being at war with the Empire remnants for several years they brokered a peace treaty, and much like the Republic before them they then decided to demilitarize themselves. There was opposition to this demilitarization, Leia was one of the people opposed to it, however the New Republic wanted to usher in a new era of peace. This was a big mistake, as it gave the First Order, essentially a terrorist group formed from the remnants of the Empire and taken over by Snoke, an opportunity to grow and finally be able to start attacking the New Republic. As a direct response to this, the new resistance was founded since the New Republic had been so severely demilitarized.
I get that this is never explained in any great depth in the actual movies, but a lot of things in the Star Wars canon never are. At the end of the day I don't find it all that surprising that the New Republic made mistakes and didn't fully realize what a threat the rising First Order actually was. In many ways they succumbed to the same political corruption, games and red tape that the Republic before them did. Don't forget that this New Republic was formed from a rebellion whose only real goal was to overthrow the Empire, which doesn't necessarily make them great rulers. Not to mention that sometimes in life just because you've taken care of a problem it doesn't mean that it isn't going to come back. Sometimes things don't play out the way we expect them to, and while you may feel like this undercuts the victory of the OT, it goes to show that a happy ending isn't always forever. This quote from Orson Welles comes to mind: "If you want a happy ending, that depends, of course, on where you stop your story."
b) I'd disagree with this. When Kylo kills Snoke he does so by outsmarting him, not by overpowering him. Snoke's biggest mistake was being too arrogant and underestimating Kylo, he misread his intentions and believed himself to be so powerful and knowledgeable that he couldn't possibly be betrayed like Palpatine before him. This is a common problem with Sith lords and powerful dark side users in general, and I think Kylo defeating Snoke this way fits well into the theme of letting the past die. We've already seen Palpatine-esque characters with great power as villains in Star Wars, it's about time that we get a villain that might not be as grand or powerful, but more intriguing. When we first met Kylo in TFA, he was essentially just a wannabe Vader who was letting himself be manipulated and controlled by Snoke. In this movie I feel like he finally came into his own, and was no longer okay with letting himself be manipulated and controlled by Snoke. His ambitions have now grown from just wanting to be the next Vader, to being the new ruler of the galaxy. I guess you could say that he really did finish what Vader started by successfully betraying Snoke and taking his place, as this is something Vader had wanted to do with Palpatine all the way back in ROTS and throughout the OT.
While Kylo might not be as powerful as Snoke or Palpatine, I think he's a far more compelling villain. He has demonstrated that he can be more than just a sidekick, more than just a tool for powerful force users to use, and I'm looking forward to seeing him as the main antagonist of Episode 9 (hopefully). I really hope that they don't try to redeem Kylo, because at this point I think we need to see a character who had the potential to be good, but due to his circumstances (Han and Leia being bad parents, Luke not trusting him, finding out that Vader was his grandfather etc) irreversibly turned to the dark side. While there might've been hope for Kylo to come back, and while he had plenty of chances to do so, he has burned all those bridges and chosen his path.
You could say the same about the prequels then. "What was the point in Palpatine taking over the Galaxy if the Empire would be defeated in 22 years. The time between the fall of the Empire and the rise of the First Order is longer than the entire reign of the Empire so you can't say the originals were all for nothing. The fight to maintain good doesn't end. The Galaxy shouldn't remain tranquil forever because the rebels one once, it should be something you have to fight for to maintain.
sanderflop Yea like in real life are we gonna start saying WW1 was pointless all because a few decades later WW2 happened. Also do people not realize how damn big and far reaching the empire is. Where the Rebels have very few systems or planets that ard aligned with them. Killing the head does very little as another head will soon pop up to take control. I mean look in the real world horrible leaders are over thrown only for who ever overthrew them to turn out to be just as terrible and that keeps happening over and over again.
Don't know whether he'll stick to his word but Benicio Del Toro announced he would stop acting and that this film was his last. Then again, plenty of actors retire and come back for other roles but, he did say that.
Canto bight was such a waste of time
SockBomb every star wars movie has their weird monster scene that's unnecessary this one was just overly long
Aidan Carpenter
Very very long with zero point.
The whole point was to get Finn to commit to the resistance. Watch the movie again.
The smartest thing to do with the Xmen is use them after Infinity War. They don't have too many storylines to do except for Secret Wars. By introducing mutants, it could be new storylines to have after the Avengers go up against a god.
As someone who loved the original trilogy, prequels, and The Force Awakens, I thought The Last Jedi was bad. It just didn't feel like Star Wars, it felt like a Marvel movie with a Star Wars skin. But that's just me
My favorite scene is when the Yuuzhan Vong fight the evil spirit of Exan Kun. Then Lobacca takes his Bronze lightsaber and murders Kyle Katarn.
Since disney bought fox, are we going to get the theatrical edition of a new hope on blu ray?
Re-listening to this podcast as a sort of pre-game for Rise of Skywalker :) curious to know if any of your feelings have changed after 2 years? I too loved TLJ.
I always understood SOME of the gripes people had with the movie. Then I re-watched all the originals and prequels the other day and I feel like I understand even more so the fans craving more fan service. But honestly i still love TLJ!
We better see a kylo vs knights of ren fight !
Yeah, this is the most just a movie in the entire saga. I feel like I should watch it again, but I don't really want to...
Probably because it ends in the same place it begins, nobody has changed sides, the resistance is weakened and
SPOILER
Luke and Snoke are non-existent like they were in TFA.
I love how I completely agree with their opinions
Spoiler
When I saw the film in the cinema, in the bit where Holdo hyperspace flies through the supremacy, everyone went silent, then you heard a distant little kid go "Oh my goood!"
No real spoilers, but I was so ready for the green lightsaber to make an appearance at the end
TWP Podcast: "Props to the Rose-Finn relationship for creating a particular combination of races."
T Fichee Such a bizarre thing to say tbh. They are Australian though, so it's all rather 'progressive' down there
Ah, you mean, those horse thing creatures racing down the streets after they set them free?
That Disney Deadpool thing is basically what Ryan Reynolds did with Free Guy.
I miss the awesome score the movies used to have. I mean, there is obviously the known themes like Leia's Theme or the Force theme, but so far there haven't been any of the epic scores that stood out even while watching the movies. I miss the epicness. (Like e.g. "Duel of the Fates", "Imperial March", "Battle of the Heroes", that love theme from episode 2, that song that plays when Anakin marches into the Jedi temple... )The music that leaves you with goosebumps and the urge to swing a lightsaber. I hope they bring in some new cool themes for the next episode.
Yeah, there's only one new theme, Rey's theme, and it's not nearly as memorable. I think it's because John Williams is like 80 years old now
Finally someone that understands the dangers of horses
I have opinions and thoughts.
Dané Shobe me too man, me too
Your opinions are objectively *WRONG!*
WELL KEEP EM TO YOURSELF
Nah you're alright
You better do an Easter eggs video for Ready Player One
Finally, someone that understands my fear of horses!
You know what would have made it better? Hux trying to order the first order to fire on Kylo while he was distracted down below to try and take Supreme Leader for himself.
o_O Fuck. Definitely
He just saw that it didn't work on Luke, he probably wouldn't expect it to work on Kylo
sanderflop I think that major thing to look at was he just got forced pushed into a damn wall and was probably out ot commission for a good while. Not to mention even if he wasn't just because he ordered it doesn't mean anybody would even listen to him. As I'm sure all the grunts are far more afraid of someone that can us the force compared to just a another man thats in a higher position of power.
Carrie ws great, but don't say how she was _"an excellent writer"_ when you never read anything she wrote. She never had anything produced other than films she was hired to do drafts on. Come on, man.
I feel like they completely mishandled Luke. For me, it's not about fan boy bullshit. I didn't care about seeing him with his green lightsaber or anything like that, I feel like the idea that he would even CONSIDER murdering his nephew without even talking about it with Han or Leia (or even Ben himself) is just ridiculous. The man wouldn't even strike down the 2nd most evil man in the galaxy in ROTJ.
Yep, true. We've known Luke as a guy with a calm temper who prefers dialogue to violent impulses, especially in RotJ. It was weird that he'd have a vision and consider killing his nephew, even for a split second.
I don't think it's completely out of character for Luke. Back in the OT he was shown to be brash and emotional, he didn't always make the right decisions. In his final fight with Vader he gave into his anger after he mentioned Leia and nearly killed him. He only stopped after chopping off Vader's hand and realizing what path he was headed down. Yoda kept criticizing Luke for being impulsive and reckless. I think Luke explains it pretty well in TLJ, he had a momentary lapse of judgment because of his fear of the dark side rising again. He knew how powerful Ben could be, he knew the complicated history of his family lineage and its allegiance in the force, and for a brief moment he let his fear and distrust of Ben get the best of him, and he had to live with the severe consequences of that. His fear of that possible outcome made it come true, and he couldn't live with that failure. He himself felt like he should've known better, much like you feel the same way. He's a human being like anyone else, he's not perfect, even if he is the "legendary Luke Skywalker".
He didn't kill Vader but he considered it. You're not thinking of the character of Luke as a real person but as your idealised version of him. Real characters have flaws.
Even Mark Hamill disagreed with the characterization of Luke in this film. I'm sure George Lucas would have too.
Nordic Joker Precisely. And it wasn't like he was going to actually murder Ben. He said he wouldn't have done it... of course he wouldn't. He's Luke Skywalker. I think people just forgot about the Vader fight in ROTJ. It was a close call. He nearly killed Vader, then he stopped and thought. Exactly the same. People seem to compare the Luke in TLJ with Legends Luke, not with the actual Luke we got in the OT.
I want a t-shirt of Sir Darryl of the Knights of Ren.
There is a difference between Luke killing people and cold blooded murder.
The tracking device on board the rebel ship was CLEARLY BB-9E! Am I the only one that saw him in the corner of like 2 different shots on the rebel ship?