imagine 32 players with modern fox3s shooting at each other in a space of 25x25 km? I agree with the EC's idea, in the future we could even have early warning planes, planes for refueling in flight, intercepting heavy bombers like the Tu-95 and the B-52, it would be insane but we are talking about gaijin, just reducing it to 16 players would be a great change
Further, imagine 200x200 km map, 8v8, *with* AI targets such as s-300 sites, w/ TORs defending them as SHORAD, Patriots with Manpad systems, targets such as factories, Comms stations etc, with specific parts of them needing destroyed (thus requiring precision munitions), or airfields that defended by AAA which need anti-radiation, but the main airstrip needing a large bomber Passover after AAA is gone. Make it feel like fighting an air war, needing coordination between players to effectively win.
Even if you reduce the player count, no map/mode changes means you're still fighting in the same small area. Granted, you're getting up to 80 missiles pointed at you instead of 160, but I don't think simply reducing player count will be as alleviating as people think it will, without additional changes. You can kind of get a sense of this with war thunder esports (lol, lmao even). The teams are small sure, but it's still just a big furball with both sides flying almost identical rosters at low alt with people spamming missiles until one team or the other evaporates.
@@cameroncarley7958 you're in luck, olivia leak says theres AI controlled s-300, patriot SAM, HIMARS, scud and tochka launchers, among many others ostensibly for some air RB rework
I 100% agree, an RB EC mode with varied objectives, respawns, large maps, would be amazing. Shooting down AI bomber formations, recon aircraft, SAM sites, strategic targets etc would open the door for all kinds of aircraft to complete those objectives. Stuff where it was previously said they have no place ingame like B52s and the MiG-25. It's such a shame that War Thunder, with the varied combat sandbox it is becoming still confines itself to basically only Team Deathmatch. We could be talking a more accessible, arcade-y kind of MMO DCS here, it would be brilliant
@@patriktoth6258 Yes, EC is a SB mission. What he is talking about is SB with RB controls and 3rd person view. SB doesn´t have that many active players because cockpit view is claustrophobic and not everyone has the time and patience to learn HOTAS. ARBEC could literally bring many more thousands or even hundreds of thousands new players to the game.
@@bananomet4052 Would be a bad idea... In top tier RB=Whoever destroys the enemy team wins In SB=Whoever drops more bombs wins,whoever completes more objective wins (There is only one where you have to fight for a point while the other are mostly "Destroy the recon plane at D3,Destroy the carrier etc.) I know most players wants to grind fast with no effort,but this much? Also HOTAS?😂😂😂 A lot of players out there destroying the complete enemy team with a mouse&keyboard. Also i play only with a controller too and i had won a lot of dogfights in SB. Yes not just with missiles,but i have a lot of cannon kills as well. In my opinion keep the 1 spawn/1 plane option in RB,make larger maps (lets say 150x150 or 200x200) for top tier and they good to go. Or a hardcore RB where the enemy markers are removed. And with less players. At least we can say that you really didn't played sim. Even in lower BR's (10.7-11.3) when we had 30+ shot down and the enemy barely had 3-5 we managed to lost. It's pretty easy to strike with CCIP/Guided stuff in RB,but its a different story in sim. Takes some skills to do it. Or they shall make what you said,but with reduced rewards. Since it would be very easy (same as playing heli PVE)
@@patriktoth6258 >At least we can say that you really didn't played sim Lmao ok, not like I completed five 2 hour sessions of SB just today. You are completely wrong about everything, sorry not sorry.
Love watching the Jet community finally start realizing what ive been saying for years. Its on the bigger boys to bring awareness to EC. It may not be a full on cure, but it would help Gaijin open up to seperating the fast paced action of standard battles and the more drawn out, in when you want, out when you want, style that EC offers… If only ground wasn’t getting out of hand too 😩 Also to the queue time point: the time when RBEC was in testing, the game BARELY peaked at 60-80k players even during most updates. The game has an average of over 100-150k now out of major updates Edit: TLDR, War Thunder players slowly realizing DCS had the right idea in the wrong control mode for most of the playerbase
I was there Gandalf, 3000 years ago and it was glorious. I ragequit WT for 2 years after they canned EC. Small correction, WT had 20k concurrent players in 2018. I remember WT started hitting 60-90k when I came back in spring 2021. We have 10x the numbers now than we had 6 years ago. There is no sane reason not to introduce ARBEC back and with it BR decompression.
15 seconds in the video and I INSTANTLY agree, 16v16 is a big disaster. Although I very rarely play top tier, in my first few battles, I instantly got sniped by a R-27ER, and never touched top tier ever since, they either gotta decompress BRs so I don't get clapped by a 27ER/AIM-9M lobber in a 11.3 shitbox known as F-4J. 8v8 or 3.5x times bigger maps along with BR decompression are a must.
a friend and I were discussing about this issue, and one thing that came up would be the missile load outs of all the top tier jets. Having 6 to 10 missiles would make way too much of a difference in an 8v8 air rb match, but rb EC would allow for these huge payloads to not be overwhelming. Pretty much any time I think of an issue war thunder has, br decompression would mostly solve it, but the idea of EC air rb can also fix a good amount of things.
I really like the presentation of this idea, it's pretty clear you have thought this through especially when compared to some of the other ideas thrown around by the community
One underrated problem with Air RB is that everyone spawn together, so you either head left or die alone in the right. Multiple spawns could solve a lot of the problems so you have small 4x4 skirmishes that eventually merge together.
Assuming we are talking about the same Gaijin, reducing the player count in ARB lobbies is a shot in the feet for a powerful reason, and its that they won't boost the rewards in relation to the amount of players cut per match. If i get a letter signed by the development team that reduced lobbies in ARB is on the works while keeping the current rewards pace, i only then would agree to such solution. But lets be real i would only just pick ARB EC and move on, its way more of a sharp and solid solution to an incoming short-term problem.
The idea for Air RB EC is amazing tbh Along with your idea/suggestion of SEAD/Early SAM sites to add in early/Anti Rad Missiles, They could also have naval patrols for maps with bodies of water where they could test/implement more AShMs to be used, rather than just keeping them limited to the Tornado MFG only (Love your content btw ^^)
Love when there's a Jaek video. The takes are always based, and the background music reminds me of the starcraft terran campaign soundtrack. Allround good feels.
Been playing sim lately, it’s an incredibly fun game mode. Air RB EC would be absolutely amazing and allow every plane to fulfill their intended role. Thank you for bringing attention to the matter!
Hello, sim player here, I would like to start by wishing every a happy New Year and a great 2024! As a sim player I must say that the current EC maps in the game are way to small, and I'm not the only sim player to think this. So I really can't imagine just how chaotic air RB is with such small maps. That said, I think it would be beneficial for the RB EC community to have our current air sim maps, like Vietnam, Denmark, Spain and Afghanistan and have gaijin make maps around twice the size at least for sim. This would make the job easier for gaijin in terms of adding maps for RB EC and would "only" have to make 2 or 3 maps for air sim. Overall I think that would be a great addition to the game for all of you RB folks that which less chaos in top tier, although I am biased in wanting bigger maps and slower games since I play sim... Eitherway, great video as always Jaek_, wish you a happy New Year!
Theres so much they could add to RB EC. Trains, Train stations. Logistic trucks. Factories with actual building damage instead of a health bar, shipyards, dams, bridges like you mentioned, radar sites which relay radar targets to your team, AWACS bots, actual period accurate bot planes instead of A6M2s against f14s. Target spotting is in a dire need of a rehaul in sim. Convoys render at less than 2km distance and clip through the ground.
Well said and I totally agree with all your points. The current state of air RB is why I only play sim now for the EC style maps and play style. More 1v1 dogfights, more objectives etc.. basically I want sim battles with third person view.
nobody wants to admit it but EC should have many more airfields, the map is big enough for them, spawns should be randomized and you shouldn't just always predictably rush left. not being able to perfectly predict the enemy's movements and where the furball will always be would make the game more interesting, but should come with stronger player spotting.
I personly feel like that it is possible for the big stratgic bombers being viable in tech tree with the right balances, possibly a team goal to defend player bombers while they go to a spesfic section of the map
I want dedicated NPC vehicles, like trucks, civ airlines, transportation, and awacs n such over the battle to add some extra larp, hell have them be like collectable events where you can grind em or get em for a dollar or so and play them in custom battles
Fr I was in my f16c and locked a dude 25 km out and fired a 7m, it went the opposite side of where he was( to the right) then pulled to him and wrapped around my whole team and slammed the ground
An ARB EC, would be a great addition to War Thunder, specially since it allow for each plane be used for their intended role and be properly rewarded for it. That being said, and being a long time Naval RB EC player, what I can say is that matches are really very, very long, about 3h in length for each match, and since most ships only make between 17 knots to 42 knots (32-78km/h, 19-47 mi/h) it takes a lot of time to get to any target that isn't close to a spawn point, in the late game sometimes you spend nearly 1h just going from one objective to the next (in this stage it is usually finding and destroying the other team's aircraft carrier). So, even though I think it really makes sense Air RB to have an EC mode, and I would gladly enjoy it, I don't think that a 3h engagement is what you have in mind, since even simulation battles IIRC aren't that long.
Took the words out of my mouth! An EC gamemode for longer drawn out gameplay would help a lot of jets fill their intended rolls and somewhat help with BR compression as other vehicles would shift around due to an increase in performance (such as the Su 25 and the A10 being placed higher now that they can ground strike and aren't buses with insane missiles). Allowing a more dueling style gamemode would give a good offset for other players to allow them a chance at quick and fast paced gameplay. It serves both parties and increases the quality of gameplay which is severely lacking. Adding large scale bombers like the B-1, B-52, and other NATO/Soviet Block/Chinese targets would give planes like the starfighter a genuine role and help them out gameplay wise. You could even allow the researching of B-52s and etc in the tech tree and allow people to play them in game if they wanted to (although that'd be insane). This is the gameplay that War Thunder needs if they want the game to playable for the next year.
its one thing i have been wanting for a long time EC is one of those modes where i get to do alot of the combined arms stuff i always liked about the game yet still get into the mix of a intense fight but i play sim and honestly its great the issue is i like the mouse aim mode since the mouse joystick controls are a bit janky at time and i cant go into a vertical fight for anything doing a loop is impossible with those controls
Could also add the likes of AEW&C aircraft, Counter paratrooping & vice versa but also anti ship could be a big thing too. We did actually see either a radar station or AEW&C in the start of the air superiority trailer, would allow introduction of aircraft like the Mig 31 who slave long range missiles to these airborne radar systems, hell even aerial refuelling for aircraft that have aar probes 32 player games can play well, sims awesome just wish there was a slightly more friendly gamemode as in control wise
Absolutely agree with you. As far as modern day war theater, you’d never have such a huge density of jets in such a small tiny area, 16 players would be nice or 20 players in a match would be a little pushing it. But still would be better. Gaijin seems to finally be listening to people on some aspects, I hope they pickup the ball with these topics you mentioned and also what Tim’s variety mentioned as far as bombers go too. Great video buddy!
I love to play sim, it became my main mode for years now. The idea of having the same but with realistic controls, and same name tag system (friendly nametags can be seen at only 800M, enemy nametags disabled) it will be a gamemode i will play all day long. Specially with the RB costs on.
EC will especially be nice with true modern multirole jets starting to come to WT (such as the F-16c and the MiG-29smt) but with ground targets being more prevalent, a plane's BR may start being effected by it's air-ground as well as it's air-air capabilities.
One thing I would want to see if they added air RB EC to the standard game modes is a similar target identification system to air sim, where friendlies are only marked once you get close to them and enemies are markerless. It would force players to use their radars and IFF to identify whether or not someone is hostile, and it would better allow for sneak attacks and flanking maneuvers if they go in with radar turned off.
I love the idea of RB EC and I love the idea of keeping the original style of gamemode too! Options matter! There’s totally some days where I don’t feel like playing an entire sim match and just want to quickly shoot some stuff and leave. Having both lets me choose my experience and keeps the game interesting
They really need to make the maps ESPECIALLY IN sim way bigger for top tier. Gajin has the nerve to make 11.0 see 12.3 in simulator battles, this is super unfair as the 12.3 plane has a whole HUD, superior missles and much better flight peformance> They need to seperate 12.0+ from anything below especially in sim. But i got an idea for the A6, they should let it be able to carry fuel pods for friendlies to refuel off especially in large sim matches, it would be fun and make the A6 more better.
Exactly, the stock grind for the F4E has got to be the worst thing, sorry only 2 aim9e, no flares against a mig-29 and F16? Good job gajin.@@standalonecomplex2195
I agree with most of what you say about Air RB EC. I love the idea of giving everyone on the team more specific roles like SEAD, Air Superiority and CAS. This can make it so different players can fill in different niches and some less competitive airframes (EG F-4 phamtoms at 12.0) have a more useful roles such as SEAD or CAS while the more capable fighters like F-15 and F-16 take on the enemy fighters and provide escort. Right now because of the way Air RB works, nobody really turns on their brain and just rush in the mosh pit near the center of the map after following the scripted left hand take off. It leads to repetitive boring and tedious gameplay. If there's one thing I really want to see to Air RB in general, it's the return of naval targets and carriers. I want them to add in some cool naval shit at top tier and I'm annoyed that carriers cease to exist above Rank 5 or so. Feels weird to not be able to take off and land the F-14 and future F-18 from where they were intended.
I've almost exclusively switched over to sim for anything above 11.0. I couldn't imagine these ARB maps with 32 people throwing AIM-120s, R-77s, and MICAs everywhere. I can see many team kills happening too, with people lobbing these missiles into a furball forgetting that the missile will pitbull onto the first thing it sees when it goes terminal
32 is roughly 2 squadrons, so I think that number is perfectly fine. The issue is in the map size. It’s like being shoved into 8 MMA bouts occurring simultaneously in a phone booth, especially when you consider that 4th Gen aircraft are supposed to be the very beginning of beyond visual combat (and some Gen 3’s). The German tech tree should also be split into Western and Eastern Germany, with the RB essentially being the Cold War (Soviet verses NATO). We also need a BR rework. You can, in theory, take down any prop plane in a biplane, but the difference between an F-86 and an F-4 is completely uncompetitive. The F-4 should be facing the MiG-21 (primarily) just as an example; the F-14 also should be in the same BR bracket but very rarely as it did see combat in Vietnam, and yes I’m aware that the MiG-21 is still a mainstay for several air forces but anyone reading this should get the point.
I would absolutely love to see Air RB EC for not just top-tier jets, but throughout the entire tree! Sure, low-tier new players aren't gonna spend three hours flying 200km/h to go find other biplanes on a map the size of Wisconsin, BUT... I would. Even if they release a low-tier PvE mode similar to it, I'd love to take out prop attackers and bombers in an environment where they can serve their role and have fun without being fighter bait. For modern jets, your suggestions would be game-changing. Not just introducing EC as a regular thing, but paving the way for SEAD, jet bombers, proper BVR combat, ARH missiles, etc. We need to expand War Thunder's game modes away from throwing rocks at the other guys, and a rejuvenation of Air RB EC is where it's at.
Regardless of BR, I enjoy a 1v1 or 1v2 every once in a while. The way it is now, it's either my entire team chasing down the last enemy, or me being chased by 8 guys. The match is usually decided within 30 seconds of the first merge of a match, which just makes like 98% of the matches short and boring. Even one or two of your points being implemented would make Air RB way more fun.
as someone who's been playing WT since 2013, many people don't know that RB EC used to already exist a handful of years ago. Matches would run for hours upon hours that people could freely join and leave with whichever BR the match was set up for. There were bases all over the map which would respawn, collums of AI vehicles would spawn that you could destroy with ground attackers and there were waves of enemy AI aircraft that fighters could engage if they couldn't engage the other team. It was fantastic, i don't know why they got rid of it
Player count definitely needs to change at least so that servers rotate player counts through 16v16, 12v12, 10v10, 8v8, etc matches. Would be great to see them experiment and let people test it! *Happy New Year Everyone!*
I agree with the addition of diversified objectives in air RB. It has de jure existed for long but however all air RB matches turn into team deathmatch given the lack of emphasis on objectives. Not to mention the respawning minibases as well. All in all attending to these forgotten features, apart from actively making air RB less chaotic, will help in the development and betterment of the game.
My thoughts exactly! I rarely play high tier air just because a minute into the match there's just an overwhelming number of planes and missiles flying around that it becomes a chaotic clusterf*ck that's nearly impossible to keep up with. The only strategies are: sit it out until the number of players thins out, or fly into it and pray that everyone is too distracted to notice you
If Gaijin ever does add RB EC into war thunder what I would want them to do is to disable name tags for enemy planes like it is in ground RB. Bombers and other less-combat capable aircraft would be able to play the game without getting instantly intercepted because they were spotted a million miles away.
Yeah, then the only problem is specifically, fighters getting longer and longer range radars and becoming stealthier and stealthier, thus compressing non superiority fighters in br even more xd
I remember playing air rb ec in a 109 K4 years ago when they tested it for a bit. It was really really fun. Almost as fun as normal sim but way more accessible. I dont see it happening but one can hope i guess
Enduring confrontation is one of the reasons i love sim. Only reason I dont main it is not having a proper setup to play it. EC for RB, even just the props would be something i would love
All I can say is I completely agree. Hell if we integrate this with Tim's redesigning of ARB to allow for bombers to be useful and potentially for newer bombers to be added, we could just achieve perfection.
it would be really nice to have sim style labels for friendlies and spotted enemies, forcing players to use their radar for for than just missile guidance and letting people try to sneak around at low alt to hit targets. Some of the most fun I have had in DCS is using flankers at low alt and speed to pop up and hit people with R27ETs
Ive been playing War Thunder since 2013 and have grinded out every plane in the game. I cannot agree more. Air RB is so stale and has been for years. The best solution is to add Air RB EC to the upper tiers and reduce team size in normal Air RB. They should've done this years ago. Right now top tier jet game play is a mess and is just made for grinding. Rarely is the mode fun.
I... i completely agree with everything you have said. Im a VR HOTAS player that plays RB. And id love to have an EC type game. It would let me use all the bomb loads that my jet has. It would even give use for stuff like the bomber type jets. My biggest gripe with sim and why i dont play it, is because of how bloody long the games are(and no players). If they made a RB EC that only lasted an hour or 45min. Then im sold.
Jaek, I really couldn't agree more with your take, especially about air RB EC. I was talking to you about it a while back in Defyns discord, and you seemed to have a different opinion back then, especially about the PvE aspect. I think that if War thunder wants to continue to expand, and remain a fun and engaging game to play, these changes are necessary. There's only so many more vehicles they can add while maintaining the current gameplay loop. (Not to mention the fact that the current air rb game mode doesn't allow high tier aircraft to stretch their legs, it is literally just a cocaine fueled cage match.) I think the "go play dcs" crowd are worried there wouldn't be a place for air to air combat in a larger more objective focused mode. But if it's done correctly, things like AWACS could direct fighters towards the enemy aircraft, so they could have a fair shot of defending the objective (which could also have increased rewards for doing successfully). In my opinion, if you look at the air war during Desert Storm, that could be a perfect model for Gaijin to use when designing a high tier air rb ec mode. I want nothing more than a game where every type of aircraft can have a role and a mission to complete, while still having a good reward for completing it. I've been told "go play dcs" numerous times. While some of the dcs mechanics are cool, I think we deserve a similar style of gamemode, without being forced to study flight manuals and purchase every plane with real money. The sky is the limit for War Thunder, its future depends on how much work Gaijin wants to put in to reach those heights. Thank you for making this video Jaek, Happy new year to you and everyone else!
I've always wanted something a little bit closer to Sim that you could consistently queue into like the ec idea, and there's so many ways to improve the current EC like having fuel tankers, so people can not spend so much time RTB just a fuel or maybe put in a awacs o you don't have to rely on the crappy system in game to find people with both creating a extra objective for the other team to shoot down
I completle agree with the Air RB EC, i usually play sim and it's a ton of fun, the only drawback is that u can't grind as efficient as AIR RB anymore, so i would love your idea to come true, also i would love some of this ideas coming to ground RB too, since ground it's in a rough spot too.
Playing the J-7D/E, always hated when I get an EC map cause either nobody is around me or I explode before I do anything, or everybody dies before I can do anything cause i had zero radar missiles or all aspect missiles
I like this. I'd definitely be going at both. I like the semi-realistic aspects of WT but I don't necessarily like playing full on Sim. I've seen the general layout in Sim, and I think that honestly wouldn't be awful for Air RB, along with Gaijin taking the steps needed to add in unique objectives and targets. It would definitely give more to do for Air RB and if more obj based stuff vs AI and Players isn't your thing, standard would still be available to play.
I fully agree with this, this is one of the best solutions for air Rb I have ever seen and I'm really holding out for gajin to implement this into wt. This would make me enjoy the game so much more. Thanks man for these great ideas gajin needs to hear.
I’d want to see latge maps on ARB EC. For top tier something like Marienhamn-Turku could work fine. Distance between those two is about 130 km (IIRC) and it has natural cover such as islands between the two targets. For lower (jet) tiers something such as Dunkirk-Dover would work fine with a distance of 71 km
If RB EC was added, it could create a better environment for actual tech-tree heavy strategic bombers to be added like the B-52, Tu-95, B-47, B-36, lots of giant bombers people have been hoping to see. While they would definitely never be meta or even that good to be honest, they would be fun to use to have a couple of your mates escort you to attack an airfield
Could you do all guided air to ground weapons? I know that's a bit extensive, maybe shorten it to either just guided bombs or guided missiles, whichever comes first. Also, 100% agree with you. I play mostly sim, but i occasionally come back to air rb and find that EC maps are where I thrive.
They added higher player count because it works in their favor. More frustration (one sided sweeps), lower reward multipliers (more players=more chances to get rewards in their eyes so they can keep lowering rewards).
Man, If they would implement your idea of Air RB EC would be absolutely incredible. I love the top tier planes but the game mode does the planes a disservice. I love your idea of actual and possibly dynamic objectives. this would be a dream.
I absolutely love the idea of Ed being expanded upon with multiple respawns maybe unlimited but like that would happen. Honestly I hate dying because I just want to play the game so respawns would be great
Being a fan of Jaek is like being a fan of the D point before attacking was invented
SO TRUE!
REAL
Literally me
That's poetic
What does this even mean?
imagine 32 players with modern fox3s shooting at each other in a space of 25x25 km?
I agree with the EC's idea, in the future we could even have early warning planes, planes for refueling in flight, intercepting heavy bombers like the Tu-95 and the B-52, it would be insane
but we are talking about gaijin, just reducing it to 16 players would be a great change
150x150km... You take off and launch your missile on an instant?
Further, imagine 200x200 km map, 8v8, *with* AI targets such as s-300 sites, w/ TORs defending them as SHORAD, Patriots with Manpad systems, targets such as factories, Comms stations etc, with specific parts of them needing destroyed (thus requiring precision munitions), or airfields that defended by AAA which need anti-radiation, but the main airstrip needing a large bomber Passover after AAA is gone. Make it feel like fighting an air war, needing coordination between players to effectively win.
Even if you reduce the player count, no map/mode changes means you're still fighting in the same small area. Granted, you're getting up to 80 missiles pointed at you instead of 160, but I don't think simply reducing player count will be as alleviating as people think it will, without additional changes. You can kind of get a sense of this with war thunder esports (lol, lmao even). The teams are small sure, but it's still just a big furball with both sides flying almost identical rosters at low alt with people spamming missiles until one team or the other evaporates.
@@cameroncarley7958 you're in luck, olivia leak says theres AI controlled s-300, patriot SAM, HIMARS, scud and tochka launchers, among many others ostensibly for some air RB rework
@@orbiter1ful I know!! I heard about that makes me really excited
I 100% agree, an RB EC mode with varied objectives, respawns, large maps, would be amazing. Shooting down AI bomber formations, recon aircraft, SAM sites, strategic targets etc would open the door for all kinds of aircraft to complete those objectives. Stuff where it was previously said they have no place ingame like B52s and the MiG-25. It's such a shame that War Thunder, with the varied combat sandbox it is becoming still confines itself to basically only Team Deathmatch. We could be talking a more accessible, arcade-y kind of MMO DCS here, it would be brilliant
You described air SB 😂😂😂😂😂
There's also the potential of Logistic vehicles. I'd love to be able to have too canyon run and do hot drops or help step up FOBs
@@patriktoth6258 Yes, EC is a SB mission. What he is talking about is SB with RB controls and 3rd person view. SB doesn´t have that many active players because cockpit view is claustrophobic and not everyone has the time and patience to learn HOTAS.
ARBEC could literally bring many more thousands or even hundreds of thousands new players to the game.
@@bananomet4052 Would be a bad idea... In top tier RB=Whoever destroys the enemy team wins
In SB=Whoever drops more bombs wins,whoever completes more objective wins (There is only one where you have to fight for a point while the other are mostly "Destroy the recon plane at D3,Destroy the carrier etc.)
I know most players wants to grind fast with no effort,but this much? Also HOTAS?😂😂😂 A lot of players out there destroying the complete enemy team with a mouse&keyboard. Also i play only with a controller too and i had won a lot of dogfights in SB. Yes not just with missiles,but i have a lot of cannon kills as well.
In my opinion keep the 1 spawn/1 plane option in RB,make larger maps (lets say 150x150 or 200x200) for top tier and they good to go. Or a hardcore RB where the enemy markers are removed. And with less players.
At least we can say that you really didn't played sim. Even in lower BR's (10.7-11.3) when we had 30+ shot down and the enemy barely had 3-5 we managed to lost. It's pretty easy to strike with CCIP/Guided stuff in RB,but its a different story in sim. Takes some skills to do it. Or they shall make what you said,but with reduced rewards. Since it would be very easy (same as playing heli PVE)
@@patriktoth6258 >At least we can say that you really didn't played sim
Lmao ok, not like I completed five 2 hour sessions of SB just today.
You are completely wrong about everything, sorry not sorry.
It's gonna get even more nuts with SPAMRAAM coming in the next 2 patches lol
Love watching the Jet community finally start realizing what ive been saying for years. Its on the bigger boys to bring awareness to EC. It may not be a full on cure, but it would help Gaijin open up to seperating the fast paced action of standard battles and the more drawn out, in when you want, out when you want, style that EC offers…
If only ground wasn’t getting out of hand too 😩
Also to the queue time point: the time when RBEC was in testing, the game BARELY peaked at 60-80k players even during most updates. The game has an average of over 100-150k now out of major updates
Edit: TLDR, War Thunder players slowly realizing DCS had the right idea in the wrong control mode for most of the playerbase
I was there Gandalf, 3000 years ago and it was glorious. I ragequit WT for 2 years after they canned EC.
Small correction, WT had 20k concurrent players in 2018. I remember WT started hitting 60-90k when I came back in spring 2021. We have 10x the numbers now than we had 6 years ago.
There is no sane reason not to introduce ARBEC back and with it BR decompression.
@@bananomet4052 yeah during updates it maybe reached 60k+
I would play DCS but I personally dislike the high skill floor and first person view
16v16 air rb be giving me anxiety too many missiles cant do this shit no mo
15 seconds in the video and I INSTANTLY agree, 16v16 is a big disaster. Although I very rarely play top tier, in my first few battles, I instantly got sniped by a R-27ER, and never touched top tier ever since, they either gotta decompress BRs so I don't get clapped by a 27ER/AIM-9M lobber in a 11.3 shitbox known as F-4J.
8v8 or 3.5x times bigger maps along with BR decompression are a must.
pure skill issue ngl
Skill issue
🤣🤣🤣
Skill issue.
Imagine dying to an ER once stopping playing top tier. Blud will unistall the game the day he dies to a fox3 lmao.
You made me want to play EC Air RB so bad, the variety of playstyles you could learn and use would make it so amazing
within 0.3 seconds, I already knew this was a certified Jaek Classic
a wild jaek simp spotted in the wild
4:40 i think when adding ec maps, the heavy bombers automatically start making sense in the tech trees
a friend and I were discussing about this issue, and one thing that came up would be the missile load outs of all the top tier jets. Having 6 to 10 missiles would make way too much of a difference in an 8v8 air rb match, but rb EC would allow for these huge payloads to not be overwhelming. Pretty much any time I think of an issue war thunder has, br decompression would mostly solve it, but the idea of EC air rb can also fix a good amount of things.
I really like the presentation of this idea, it's pretty clear you have thought this through
especially when compared to some of the other ideas thrown around by the community
One underrated problem with Air RB is that everyone spawn together, so you either head left or die alone in the right. Multiple spawns could solve a lot of the problems so you have small 4x4 skirmishes that eventually merge together.
Very well thought out and presented! Absolutely agree on the split queue idea
Assuming we are talking about the same Gaijin, reducing the player count in ARB lobbies is a shot in the feet for a powerful reason, and its that they won't boost the rewards in relation to the amount of players cut per match.
If i get a letter signed by the development team that reduced lobbies in ARB is on the works while keeping the current rewards pace, i only then would agree to such solution. But lets be real i would only just pick ARB EC and move on, its way more of a sharp and solid solution to an incoming short-term problem.
Thanks for the video. I have been dreaming of having Air EC with respawning and smaller match sizes for regular matches!
Adding EC would definitely be better for those who prefer strike/bomber aircraft too, plus I've got friends who would happily be fighter escorts etc
4:00 I was about to suggest stuff and you instantly give all my opinions but better
I love the idea, I am a huge fan of sim, having a gamemode like the EC you proposed would be insane
The idea for Air RB EC is amazing tbh
Along with your idea/suggestion of SEAD/Early SAM sites to add in early/Anti Rad Missiles, They could also have naval patrols for maps with bodies of water where they could test/implement more AShMs to be used, rather than just keeping them limited to the Tornado MFG only
(Love your content btw ^^)
Love when there's a Jaek video. The takes are always based, and the background music reminds me of the starcraft terran campaign soundtrack. Allround good feels.
Huge fan of your ideas
Been playing sim lately, it’s an incredibly fun game mode. Air RB EC would be absolutely amazing and allow every plane to fulfill their intended role. Thank you for bringing attention to the matter!
i agree, your second option sounds fun as well i hope they listen.
Hello, sim player here, I would like to start by wishing every a happy New Year and a great 2024!
As a sim player I must say that the current EC maps in the game are way to small, and I'm not the only sim player to think this. So I really can't imagine just how chaotic air RB is with such small maps.
That said, I think it would be beneficial for the RB EC community to have our current air sim maps, like Vietnam, Denmark, Spain and Afghanistan and have gaijin make maps around twice the size at least for sim. This would make the job easier for gaijin in terms of adding maps for RB EC and would "only" have to make 2 or 3 maps for air sim.
Overall I think that would be a great addition to the game for all of you RB folks that which less chaos in top tier, although I am biased in wanting bigger maps and slower games since I play sim... Eitherway, great video as always Jaek_, wish you a happy New Year!
Theres so much they could add to RB EC. Trains, Train stations. Logistic trucks. Factories with actual building damage instead of a health bar, shipyards, dams, bridges like you mentioned, radar sites which relay radar targets to your team, AWACS bots, actual period accurate bot planes instead of A6M2s against f14s. Target spotting is in a dire need of a rehaul in sim. Convoys render at less than 2km distance and clip through the ground.
Happy new year
Well said and I totally agree with all your points. The current state of air RB is why I only play sim now for the EC style maps and play style. More 1v1 dogfights, more objectives etc.. basically I want sim battles with third person view.
nobody wants to admit it but EC should have many more airfields, the map is big enough for them, spawns should be randomized and you shouldn't just always predictably rush left.
not being able to perfectly predict the enemy's movements and where the furball will always be would make the game more interesting, but should come with stronger player spotting.
Subbed. Couldn't agree more with this
Greatly agree with this video, I want both gamemodes and the way you suggested implementing EC sounds good to me.
You are speaking from the bottom of my heart. I support your ideas strongly.
5:10 EC is inherently join in progress. You'd be able to choose from a list of open servers filled with people.
For me they need to make top tier maps bigger and with more spawns. They just need to use simulation battles maps in rb
I personly feel like that it is possible for the big stratgic bombers being viable in tech tree with the right balances, possibly a team goal to defend player bombers while they go to a spesfic section of the map
I want dedicated NPC vehicles, like trucks, civ airlines, transportation, and awacs n such over the battle to add some extra larp, hell have them be like collectable events where you can grind em or get em for a dollar or so and play them in custom battles
I really like this take on fixing air RB 👍
I Would love to See the Radar missiles working Properly in smaller sized games where they hit the plane instead of the ground
Fr I was in my f16c and locked a dude 25 km out and fired a 7m, it went the opposite side of where he was( to the right) then pulled to him and wrapped around my whole team and slammed the ground
You hit the nail on the head I completely agree
Bro this is the perfect ideas fr
Great ideas. I would also like to see night missions.
An ARB EC, would be a great addition to War Thunder, specially since it allow for each plane be used for their intended role and be properly rewarded for it. That being said, and being a long time Naval RB EC player, what I can say is that matches are really very, very long, about 3h in length for each match, and since most ships only make between 17 knots to 42 knots (32-78km/h, 19-47 mi/h) it takes a lot of time to get to any target that isn't close to a spawn point, in the late game sometimes you spend nearly 1h just going from one objective to the next (in this stage it is usually finding and destroying the other team's aircraft carrier).
So, even though I think it really makes sense Air RB to have an EC mode, and I would gladly enjoy it, I don't think that a 3h engagement is what you have in mind, since even simulation battles IIRC aren't that long.
Took the words out of my mouth! An EC gamemode for longer drawn out gameplay would help a lot of jets fill their intended rolls and somewhat help with BR compression as other vehicles would shift around due to an increase in performance (such as the Su 25 and the A10 being placed higher now that they can ground strike and aren't buses with insane missiles). Allowing a more dueling style gamemode would give a good offset for other players to allow them a chance at quick and fast paced gameplay. It serves both parties and increases the quality of gameplay which is severely lacking. Adding large scale bombers like the B-1, B-52, and other NATO/Soviet Block/Chinese targets would give planes like the starfighter a genuine role and help them out gameplay wise. You could even allow the researching of B-52s and etc in the tech tree and allow people to play them in game if they wanted to (although that'd be insane). This is the gameplay that War Thunder needs if they want the game to playable for the next year.
its one thing i have been wanting for a long time EC is one of those modes where i get to do alot of the combined arms stuff i always liked about the game yet still get into the mix of a intense fight but i play sim and honestly its great the issue is i like the mouse aim mode since the mouse joystick controls are a bit janky at time and i cant go into a vertical fight for anything doing a loop is impossible with those controls
I don't even play Air RB but it's still clear to see that these ideas all have great potential
Could also add the likes of AEW&C aircraft, Counter paratrooping & vice versa but also anti ship could be a big thing too.
We did actually see either a radar station or AEW&C in the start of the air superiority trailer, would allow introduction of aircraft like the Mig 31 who slave long range missiles to these airborne radar systems, hell even aerial refuelling for aircraft that have aar probes
32 player games can play well, sims awesome just wish there was a slightly more friendly gamemode as in control wise
It would also be very interesting to add air refueling in this type of match, although it would be a very complex mechanics
Absolutely agree with you. As far as modern day war theater, you’d never have such a huge density of jets in such a small tiny area, 16 players would be nice or 20 players in a match would be a little pushing it. But still would be better. Gaijin seems to finally be listening to people on some aspects, I hope they pickup the ball with these topics you mentioned and also what Tim’s variety mentioned as far as bombers go too. Great video buddy!
This is amazing! Absolutely love this video, and I definitely think Gaijin should implement this kind of thing.
I love to play sim, it became my main mode for years now. The idea of having the same but with realistic controls, and same name tag system (friendly nametags can be seen at only 800M, enemy nametags disabled) it will be a gamemode i will play all day long. Specially with the RB costs on.
EC will especially be nice with true modern multirole jets starting to come to WT (such as the F-16c and the MiG-29smt) but with ground targets being more prevalent, a plane's BR may start being effected by it's air-ground as well as it's air-air capabilities.
One thing I would want to see if they added air RB EC to the standard game modes is a similar target identification system to air sim, where friendlies are only marked once you get close to them and enemies are markerless. It would force players to use their radars and IFF to identify whether or not someone is hostile, and it would better allow for sneak attacks and flanking maneuvers if they go in with radar turned off.
I would want basically air sim but with rb hud camara and flight preformens
I love the idea of RB EC and I love the idea of keeping the original style of gamemode too! Options matter! There’s totally some days where I don’t feel like playing an entire sim match and just want to quickly shoot some stuff and leave. Having both lets me choose my experience and keeps the game interesting
Holy shit yes, I'm so fucking tired of 1800 kph f104s outrunning my sparrows.
I love the gameplay of AIR RB and love the game mode of SIM, mixing them together to make AIR RB EC would be my dream tbh
They really need to make the maps ESPECIALLY IN sim way bigger for top tier.
Gajin has the nerve to make 11.0 see 12.3 in simulator battles, this is super unfair as the 12.3 plane has a whole HUD, superior missles and much better flight peformance>
They need to seperate 12.0+ from anything below especially in sim.
But i got an idea for the A6, they should let it be able to carry fuel pods for friendlies to refuel off especially in large sim matches, it would be fun and make the A6 more better.
True, all 12.0+ should be 13+ or more, playing in f4 or mig 23 against f16s, grippens, mig29s, su27s etc makes no sense.
Exactly, the stock grind for the F4E has got to be the worst thing, sorry only 2 aim9e, no flares against a mig-29 and F16? Good job gajin.@@standalonecomplex2195
I agree on the EC ideas .
Air RB feels like a go-kart track filled with formula 1 cars.
Honestly, even having multiple spawn points per side on each map would be a decent stopgap to prevent it all being one big cluster.
4:00 AWACS as a target (not as a functional aircraft) would work great for Air RB EC and Sim EC.
LOVE THERE IDEAS GOOD VID
I think a 1v1/2v2 mode would also be very cool to see, get to actually dogfight higher tier planes without getting third-partied
I agree with most of what you say about Air RB EC. I love the idea of giving everyone on the team more specific roles like SEAD, Air Superiority and CAS. This can make it so different players can fill in different niches and some less competitive airframes (EG F-4 phamtoms at 12.0) have a more useful roles such as SEAD or CAS while the more capable fighters like F-15 and F-16 take on the enemy fighters and provide escort.
Right now because of the way Air RB works, nobody really turns on their brain and just rush in the mosh pit near the center of the map after following the scripted left hand take off. It leads to repetitive boring and tedious gameplay.
If there's one thing I really want to see to Air RB in general, it's the return of naval targets and carriers. I want them to add in some cool naval shit at top tier and I'm annoyed that carriers cease to exist above Rank 5 or so. Feels weird to not be able to take off and land the F-14 and future F-18 from where they were intended.
I've almost exclusively switched over to sim for anything above 11.0. I couldn't imagine these ARB maps with 32 people throwing AIM-120s, R-77s, and MICAs everywhere. I can see many team kills happening too, with people lobbing these missiles into a furball forgetting that the missile will pitbull onto the first thing it sees when it goes terminal
Underappreciated video
32 is roughly 2 squadrons, so I think that number is perfectly fine. The issue is in the map size. It’s like being shoved into 8 MMA bouts occurring simultaneously in a phone booth, especially when you consider that 4th Gen aircraft are supposed to be the very beginning of beyond visual combat (and some Gen 3’s).
The German tech tree should also be split into Western and Eastern Germany, with the RB essentially being the Cold War (Soviet verses NATO).
We also need a BR rework. You can, in theory, take down any prop plane in a biplane, but the difference between an F-86 and an F-4 is completely uncompetitive. The F-4 should be facing the MiG-21 (primarily) just as an example; the F-14 also should be in the same BR bracket but very rarely as it did see combat in Vietnam, and yes I’m aware that the MiG-21 is still a mainstay for several air forces but anyone reading this should get the point.
I would absolutely love to see Air RB EC for not just top-tier jets, but throughout the entire tree!
Sure, low-tier new players aren't gonna spend three hours flying 200km/h to go find other biplanes on a map the size of Wisconsin, BUT... I would. Even if they release a low-tier PvE mode similar to it, I'd love to take out prop attackers and bombers in an environment where they can serve their role and have fun without being fighter bait.
For modern jets, your suggestions would be game-changing. Not just introducing EC as a regular thing, but paving the way for SEAD, jet bombers, proper BVR combat, ARH missiles, etc.
We need to expand War Thunder's game modes away from throwing rocks at the other guys, and a rejuvenation of Air RB EC is where it's at.
Regardless of BR, I enjoy a 1v1 or 1v2 every once in a while. The way it is now, it's either my entire team chasing down the last enemy, or me being chased by 8 guys. The match is usually decided within 30 seconds of the first merge of a match, which just makes like 98% of the matches short and boring. Even one or two of your points being implemented would make Air RB way more fun.
as someone who's been playing WT since 2013, many people don't know that RB EC used to already exist a handful of years ago.
Matches would run for hours upon hours that people could freely join and leave with whichever BR the match was set up for.
There were bases all over the map which would respawn, collums of AI vehicles would spawn that you could destroy with ground attackers and there were waves of enemy AI aircraft that fighters could engage if they couldn't engage the other team. It was fantastic, i don't know why they got rid of it
Player count definitely needs to change at least so that servers rotate player counts through 16v16, 12v12, 10v10, 8v8, etc matches.
Would be great to see them experiment and let people test it!
*Happy New Year Everyone!*
I agree with the addition of diversified objectives in air RB. It has de jure existed for long but however all air RB matches turn into team deathmatch given the lack of emphasis on objectives. Not to mention the respawning minibases as well. All in all attending to these forgotten features, apart from actively making air RB less chaotic, will help in the development and betterment of the game.
The ec idea is great and I support it and also there was a large leak of ground vehicles like patriots and rocket artillery.
My thoughts exactly! I rarely play high tier air just because a minute into the match there's just an overwhelming number of planes and missiles flying around that it becomes a chaotic clusterf*ck that's nearly impossible to keep up with. The only strategies are: sit it out until the number of players thins out, or fly into it and pray that everyone is too distracted to notice you
If Gaijin ever does add RB EC into war thunder what I would want them to do is to disable name tags for enemy planes like it is in ground RB.
Bombers and other less-combat capable aircraft would be able to play the game without getting instantly intercepted because they were spotted a million miles away.
Yeah, then the only problem is specifically, fighters getting longer and longer range radars and becoming stealthier and stealthier, thus compressing non superiority fighters in br even more xd
I remember playing air rb ec in a 109 K4 years ago when they tested it for a bit.
It was really really fun. Almost as fun as normal sim but way more accessible.
I dont see it happening but one can hope i guess
Enduring confrontation is one of the reasons i love sim. Only reason I dont main it is not having a proper setup to play it. EC for RB, even just the props would be something i would love
All I can say is I completely agree.
Hell if we integrate this with Tim's redesigning of ARB to allow for bombers to be useful and potentially for newer bombers to be added, we could just achieve perfection.
Bro, just remind me when you’re famous
probs don’t have to wait long for that tbh
it would be really nice to have sim style labels for friendlies and spotted enemies, forcing players to use their radar for for than just missile guidance and letting people try to sneak around at low alt to hit targets. Some of the most fun I have had in DCS is using flankers at low alt and speed to pop up and hit people with R27ETs
Ive been playing War Thunder since 2013 and have grinded out every plane in the game. I cannot agree more. Air RB is so stale and has been for years. The best solution is to add Air RB EC to the upper tiers and reduce team size in normal Air RB. They should've done this years ago. Right now top tier jet game play is a mess and is just made for grinding. Rarely is the mode fun.
I... i completely agree with everything you have said. Im a VR HOTAS player that plays RB. And id love to have an EC type game. It would let me use all the bomb loads that my jet has. It would even give use for stuff like the bomber type jets. My biggest gripe with sim and why i dont play it, is because of how bloody long the games are(and no players). If they made a RB EC that only lasted an hour or 45min. Then im sold.
Oh were defo ready for Aim-120s cuz were already here for R27-ERs!
This would literally be perfect
Jaek, I really couldn't agree more with your take, especially about air RB EC. I was talking to you about it a while back in Defyns discord, and you seemed to have a different opinion back then, especially about the PvE aspect. I think that if War thunder wants to continue to expand, and remain a fun and engaging game to play, these changes are necessary.
There's only so many more vehicles they can add while maintaining the current gameplay loop. (Not to mention the fact that the current air rb game mode doesn't allow high tier aircraft to stretch their legs, it is literally just a cocaine fueled cage match.)
I think the "go play dcs" crowd are worried there wouldn't be a place for air to air combat in a larger more objective focused mode. But if it's done correctly, things like AWACS could direct fighters towards the enemy aircraft, so they could have a fair shot of defending the objective (which could also have increased rewards for doing successfully).
In my opinion, if you look at the air war during Desert Storm, that could be a perfect model for Gaijin to use when designing a high tier air rb ec mode.
I want nothing more than a game where every type of aircraft can have a role and a mission to complete, while still having a good reward for completing it. I've been told "go play dcs" numerous times. While some of the dcs mechanics are cool, I think we deserve a similar style of gamemode, without being forced to study flight manuals and purchase every plane with real money. The sky is the limit for War Thunder, its future depends on how much work Gaijin wants to put in to reach those heights.
Thank you for making this video Jaek, Happy new year to you and everyone else!
I do love the chaos that regular mode has but i agree EC would be great
I've always wanted something a little bit closer to Sim that you could consistently queue into like the ec idea, and there's so many ways to improve the current EC like having fuel tankers, so people can not spend so much time RTB just a fuel or maybe put in a awacs o you don't have to rely on the crappy system in game to find people with both creating a extra objective for the other team to shoot down
I completle agree with the Air RB EC, i usually play sim and it's a ton of fun, the only drawback is that u can't grind as efficient as AIR RB anymore, so i would love your idea to come true, also i would love some of this ideas coming to ground RB too, since ground it's in a rough spot too.
Playing the J-7D/E, always hated when I get an EC map cause either nobody is around me or I explode before I do anything, or everybody dies before I can do anything cause i had zero radar missiles or all aspect missiles
I like this. I'd definitely be going at both. I like the semi-realistic aspects of WT but I don't necessarily like playing full on Sim. I've seen the general layout in Sim, and I think that honestly wouldn't be awful for Air RB, along with Gaijin taking the steps needed to add in unique objectives and targets. It would definitely give more to do for Air RB and if more obj based stuff vs AI and Players isn't your thing, standard would still be available to play.
I fully agree with this, this is one of the best solutions for air Rb I have ever seen and I'm really holding out for gajin to implement this into wt. This would make me enjoy the game so much more. Thanks man for these great ideas gajin needs to hear.
this kid is rad
This is what i have been advocating for years for
covering the Yak-3 and 9 variants would be huge
I’d want to see latge maps on ARB EC. For top tier something like Marienhamn-Turku could work fine. Distance between those two is about 130 km (IIRC) and it has natural cover such as islands between the two targets.
For lower (jet) tiers something such as Dunkirk-Dover would work fine with a distance of 71 km
If RB EC was added, it could create a better environment for actual tech-tree heavy strategic bombers to be added like the B-52, Tu-95, B-47, B-36, lots of giant bombers people have been hoping to see. While they would definitely never be meta or even that good to be honest, they would be fun to use to have a couple of your mates escort you to attack an airfield
Could you do all guided air to ground weapons? I know that's a bit extensive, maybe shorten it to either just guided bombs or guided missiles, whichever comes first. Also, 100% agree with you. I play mostly sim, but i occasionally come back to air rb and find that EC maps are where I thrive.
They added higher player count because it works in their favor. More frustration (one sided sweeps), lower reward multipliers (more players=more chances to get rewards in their eyes so they can keep lowering rewards).
Man, If they would implement your idea of Air RB EC would be absolutely incredible. I love the top tier planes but the game mode does the planes a disservice. I love your idea of actual and possibly dynamic objectives. this would be a dream.
Damnit I didn’t beat Perennial this time
I absolutely love the idea of Ed being expanded upon with multiple respawns maybe unlimited but like that would happen. Honestly I hate dying because I just want to play the game so respawns would be great
my issue with this topic is that gaijin doesn't even acknowledge it as a problem at all.