13:21 To manually switch your racing wheel base from T2PA / T3PA / T3PA-Pro mode to T-LCM mode, simultaneously press the downshift (left) paddle on the wheel + the MODE button on your wheel base for 3 seconds. This will allow the pedals to work at a 16 bit resolution, if you have the latest firmware installed (v31.00)! 28:23 To calibrate, the pedals must be connected directly to the PC via the USB cable. Calibration tool won't work with the RJ12 connection type! After calibration, you can reconnect the pedals and the wheel base with the RJ12 cable, because the settings you selected during calibration are already saved in the pedal’s internal memory.
Really nice to see Thrustmaster finally stepping up to Loadcell Pedals. This was long overdue! Price is okay for what it is, but I'd like to see less plastic and more metal on these. Nice Review as always Barry!
I think there's a good chance that we will see a more metal "pro" version of this in the future, but that would obviously cost more, probably like $100-125 more.
On closer inspection it looks like the brake pedal is mounted onto a metal bracket that is screwed into the plastic base, to help it withstand the higher load compared to the throttle and clutch. You should probably add an annotation to clarify this as I, and probably many others, initially thought all the pedals were on plastic pivots.
it is 100kg pressure on the loadcell but due to the lever of the pedals it's less kg at the pedal itself. I'm curious how much it is. I don't like that some pedal manufacturers only advertise their products with the force their loadcell is capable of and not how much kg is needed on the pedal to get 100kg on the loadcell. Heusinkveld is open about it. The HE Sprint have a 120kg loadcell in the brake pedal and you actually need 64kg on the break pedal to achieve this. Looking at the T-LCM I would say it would be around 40kg to maximum 50kg effective pressure possible on the brake pedal. Edit: after taking some measures, taking some angles into account and trying some maths I get around 60 to 65kg pedal pressure to get 100kg on the loadcell... phew..
I have these and they’re as solid as the real ones on my old S2000. Sometimes I think the high end sim equipment is actually better than what you’d get on a real car, and paradoxically somewhat unrealistic. Case in point: Very few cars have adjustable pedals of any sort. You just deal with it.
I would really like to see these pedal reviews with the sim motion turned off for a minute or two. That way we'd be able to see how much actual flex are in the pedals and heel plates.
I like your reviews a lot, but I have a criticism to make. I bought this pedals soon after your review. Now, almost an year latter, my break pedal started to have a forward resting point, so forward that the load cell rod disconnected from the pedal at the back. Opened it up, expenting to find a bend plastic or something like that, because the force caused by the two red springs is very strong when you don't have a little play in the middle spring (deadzone). My surprise was the break pedal assembly is fully metal and there is an adjustable resting point screw, accessible from the bottom (without opening the structure). That's not emphatized in the review, and should have been - it's a fundamental characteristic of this pedals - the load cell, with very strong metal struture (the middle mounting point of this set is to suport the brake pedal even further). I have much more confidence in theses pedals, and recommend it to anyone.
Hi, i recently had the same issue with pedal being loose and the resting point screw needed to be tightend up but i did notice it has (or mine does) a red what looks like thread lock and i would assume this needs to be re-applied. Also if you tighten the screw to far it will apply pressure to the load cell kinda as if you was resting your foot on it so i backed it off a touch to the correct point using the calibration tool. Hopefully you see this as i am wondering if the screw came loose again after you adjusted yours?
Was looking into buying these and found this video, really nice to see the detail you went into covering all the different parts and giving your thoughts. Thanks!
Hi, don't know if anyone shared the info here, but I've just opened it up to see what was inside the ballast and it's dry cement or concrete, so don't bother to try and fill it with something heavier. Truth is it's just a minor help to anyone who can't screw it on a rig. Without screwing it you have to use the softer spring combination and calibrate it to about 60%. It's still better than a "normal" non load cell but you loose most of it's potencial. If calibration is set to heavier than 60% with the soft spring combination the set keeps lifting. Hope his info helps anyone. Edit: btw concrete from the info I've could understand is about the heavier they could have filled the ballast with, unless they'd poor liquid led in to the ballast. Cheers
Hey Barry. I like SMG reviews but as for pedal reviews exclusively, I would say its hard to see the flexing and movement of parts during test when the cockpit is moving. Maybe puting the camera fixed to the rig would fix this.
These might be a good entry level load cell choice here in Canada, where Fanatec products cost far more than in the US due to expensive shipping and duties. Even a set of CSL Elite LC pedals ends up costing something like $400-450 CDN here once they get to your door, never mind the Clubsports! At that point you might as well get Heusinkveld Sprints... I'll be interested to see what these retail for here, could be very interesting to anyone looking to upgrade from T3PAs or a Logitech pedal set.
Not sure where you live but this place in Markham, Ontario called Simulation1 has these for a $270 pre-order sale... planning making a stop there myself. The CSL are going for 350 at the same place
nice, very informative video. i know it is over 3 years old but i still wanted to say thank you and i really like your calm voice :) youre an all around cool guy! im about to buy one of these.
Reminds me of Bob Ross, but for sim racing, so thorough and such a soothing voice to listen to. appreciate the time you took with this review and all of your reviews
I watched a teardown of a Thrustmaster T2 recently. While I never owned one, that level of build quality is familiar to me as someone that started gaming in the '80s. Because of this, the habit of being perhaps a little too gentle on my equipment has become ingrained. I don't tend to slam gear shifters (even in a real car), or stomp on pedals and it took me a while to feel comfortable resisting a force feedback wheel because I thought I might damage it (I still do with higher settings). I'd probably get on okay with this set due to this trait, but part of me thinks I may be better off upgrading to more robust equipment that I'm not afraid to give some abuse.
Berry, on the main board in side, can you interchange the gas and clutch and hang the unit upside down? Or is that changeable in the software? I know some rigs allow you to hang the pedals.
Glad to see a highend hardware expert spend time with the mass production gear Thrustmaster still serves me well TS-PC racer an T3pa pro an TH8A shifter
So, when you set the brake force/travel to 100% (41:20), don't you negate the effect of the load cell? You are just pushing against a spring with 1:1ratio of travel-to-brake force. It seems to me (without any personal LC experience yet) that you want the force to rise abruptly with limited travel, just like in your car. I think that's why they use springs with different spring rates in the same stack. The soft spring compresses first with little effect on the load cell, then the harder spring(s) generate much more pressure on the load cell without much travel. I look forward to purchasing this unit for my sim rig.
Nice review, and glad to see Thrustmaster up their game! About the mounting points at 8:39 the fith one in the center is to secure to your rig the inner brake pedal steel frame to avoid pedal plate flex and fatigue under hard braking, you can see the bolt on the steel brake pedal frame at 30:20 it must allow better precision too especially while using the harder red springs like you did.
First video I've watched of yours. Brilliant video with so much detail! 2 things from me: 1. I love how you're an esk8er like me (saw the LaCroix in the background!) 2. I saw lots of movement side to side when you were using the pedals as you highlighted. For £179.99 it's worth it but I'd rather invest a little more and get something more robust! Cheers for the great video again. I'm subscribed :D
That mounting bracket (if im not mistaken) to make this pedal set compatible with existing Thrustmaster mounting holes, my F-GT cockpit has pre drilled holes for Thrustmaster pedals. Makes the mounting hardware backwards compatible without having to drill
The plastic bushings are probably more responsible for the soft feel than the molded plastic mount. Installing brass or bronze bushings instead of the plastic ones would increase the stiffness but would also increase the stress imposed on the plastic mounts. It would be interesting to see then how long the plastic mounts last. I bought a set of these pedals when they hit the market and they are a good loadcell pedal for the price.
Excellent review. I am going to invest in the T300RS GT set very soon. And after watching this, will definitely be upgrading the pedal set to the load cell unit! Cheers.
great review, as always. this is a very promising set of pedals, considering my background of owning and modifying various pedal sets including ClubSport and Elite LC. For the price this set seems to be the best and most versatile. From this review I can see that it's very easy to invert them - swap the wires on pcb, springs and plates for brake and clutch, done. Barry missed one thing: the brake plate can be adjusted up and down - there 4 sets of holes for bolts in the pedal arm itself, all arms actually. Looking to buy this set for the fun project - take out arms with pcbs and building three separate metal bases for each pedal to get rid of all plastic and be able to move and mount them individually. ClubSport pedals are good as is, but on my set both springs are snapped and loadcell died. On Elite LC pedal set pots are not consistent and pedals have movement at pivot points, so I made a single pedal out of damaged ClubSports for gas/accelerator and use two pcbs now - one for CS gas and vibration motors, another one for Elite LC brake, clutch and Fanatec handbrake. Also on my Fanatec SQ shifter the spring snapped for its Sequencial function, and on my CSL Elite PS4 wheel rim built-it display stopped working which made it impossible to adjust the settings. Not a pleasant experience for me with Fanatec products ( except the CSL Elite PS4 wheel base - it's awesome for my needs). these T-LCMs are great for the price, but I can't find them anywhere in the states at this moment. wonder when they go on sale? P. S. Got them from Microcenter.
Yea, my first thought was that its just rather simple plastic base, but solid HW in it, so why not simply build metal housing for it. Think thats not that hard to do.
Barry you’re such a tease, I wanna see your thoughts on that Porsche wheel and how it compares to the normal Fanatec Quick Release, and I want to see the setup for that DOF rig! Jokes aside, good to see that you’re still looking at all the different price ranges. I’m sure many people will find this review very helpful!
I remember modding my t3pa pedals with transmission springs to make the clutch and acceleration pedal stiffer they are color based for stiffness and for the break pedal I used a old top hat bushing I trimmed down to fit the slot under the pedal they still work great today
First time viewer here. Excellent video! I love the way its organised into sections and looks at each aspect of the pedals in depth. Very well thought out :) I'm here because im returning to sim racing and researching my new setup.
Great video, thank you for the thorough breakdown & detail. Finally received my pedals this week. This video allowed me to remove the ballast: I have a Playseat Challenge and frequently transport it upstairs & downstairs and back, and need it as light as possible. Also, I like a stiffer throttle (than what is on the T3PA), and I haven't used the clutch pedal as I don't have experience driving with it, so I was able to switch the 2 springs between them. Cheers
i dont like plastic so i took out the spacer and left it metal on metal or aluminium, i also lined up the pedals to have a balanced position instead of too high or too low, that will minimze the flex
Saw the video length and thought this would be a drag. I was absolutely wrong, this was an incredible video with a perfect amount of detail, thank you so much for the in-depth review, I've constantly been having issues with pots and now I think I know what my next investment is. Cheers :)
Interesting review of T-LCM, really. But I do consider that springs are definitely not suitable for simulating the progressivity of a real brake pedal, except if associated to soft polymer components which provide an increasing reaction force while being compressed. But, it would have been great getting your opinion on how springs provide (or not) a progressive effort while depressing the brake pedal. As there is no need getting loadcell technology if, in the mean time, the driver just gets a poor idea of how much he is depressing the pedal. And I am not referring to the level of stiffness but to its progressivity.
Thankfully I found Barry. Knowing the details of LC and HA pedals + spacers and stiffer springs, I can make an informed choice and not just hope that more expensive means better.
The first time I used this I was happy and did a 7h session, using my right foot to accelerate and brake with socks... now I have achilles heel tendonitis
Hi, Great review on the t-lcm pedal set. Can I ask you, I own a t3pa-pro pedal set with a ricmotec loadcell and harder springs for the clutch and gas throttle, so my question is is the t-lcm worth buying over the pedals I use for the moment?
Metal levers with metal pins resting in cheap plastic is planned obsolescence. The plastic is going to wear down and make the housing looser and looser over time resulting in wobbly-ass pedals. How long do these last?
Not all plastic is cheap and wears super fast. That said, it does seem to be one big part, which means it's unlikely it's a glass impregnated PC or nylon that could withstand the long term forces on it. Would have been real simple to have it be a metal bearing mounted to a thicker plastic section - the plastic would still flex a little bit but the moving part would bear on metal and the plastic would hold up over time with some more support. This design may be strong enough - it's hard to tell now, but the bearing area looks a little thin to me.
@@illegitimate0 yeah it's possible that the flex in the plastic is designed to make it "stronger" by bending like a spring rather than sheering and catastrophically failing. But this is Thrustmaster we're talking about. I have never had a single plastic containing input device they made that wasn't designed to fail within a year or two at most. You buy Heusinkvelds and Bodnars etc (and to some extent Logitech), but you *rent* Thrustmasters. Maybe this device will be the exception?
Forces aren't that strong on throttle and clutch, and the brake pedal have it's own steel frame, that one needs to be solid and about the mounting points at 8:39 the fifth one in the center is to secure to your rig the inner brake pedal steel frame to avoid pedal plate flex and fatigue under hard braking, you can see the bolt on the steel brake pedal frame at 30:20 it must allow better precision too especially while using the harder red springs like SRG did.
@@revirdkcalb No clutch??.. That price is the complete pedal set including the load cell brake. And the T-LCM is compatible stand alone with pc just like the CSL's.
@@RVRCloset It is also compatible with consoles bro...It comes with the RJ-whatever cable, so it is plug and play with other Thrustmaster wheels. For the CSL you would need extra hardware to play on consoles (with a Thrustmaster wheel). But you are right. The CSL LC are indeed three pedals, my bad.
Nice review, but it seemed odd to me not mentioning that the brake pedal is actually mounted to a metal plate. It's quite obvious, it even has a ground wire tied to it. Or was it mentioned and I missed it?
hello, I have owned my set now for just over a year. i use them quite a bit. (sad to say) They are a nice little set. the biggest issue over time is the same as the stock set. the springs in the throttle. now you can take the clutch for a temporary fix, its to heavy to really use for a duration of time. the other issue is the little fasteners that hold the pedals on! they break and your foot can get really hurt if your not wearing shoes. you can find 100 different brake mod stuff but finding that spring???? man i dunno havent had luck yet! Great videos btw most informative no BS well done thanks so much.
Do load cell pedals help from keeping the brakes from locking up too much? I have inexpensive potentiometer pedals and I CONSTANTLY lockup. I was seriously considering these pedals as an introduction to load cell brakes.
Barry, you’re the man! Watching your videos is so enlightening, educational and at the same time therapeutical👍 if you ever decide to look for another profession, I’m sure you would do just as well in radio or TV hehe. Congrats for the beautiful job you do reviewing all these products. I’m a big fan! Joe from Brazil😀
Thanks for this video, you helped me solve a problem that occurred the other day with my brake pedal - the set screw underneath that forms the block to keep the pedal from going too far forward had somehow loosened to the point that all my springs flopped loose. :)
Nice to see that you can remove the clutch pedal, because I don't need it and it seems like it would interfere with my left foot which I use to brake. Exactly the info I searched for. Thank you!
Well done on another thorough review. For me, I'm coming from G25 pedals. I'm now debating over the Ricmotech LC mod for my G25 set or going to this set. The main issue is the use of plastic in the pivot points and the plastic bushings. These will not get tighter with age and in your video, there's already a lot of flex...
Same question, I'm really afraid of that and it could make it a no-go for me :s Too bad, apart from this it looks like a really good bang for your buck.
Yep. This makes it a no-go for me as well. It's really too bad as they used metal on the pivot point for the brake pedal and adding that to the clutch and gas wouldn't have raised the price much. However, even so, you still have plastic bushings in the pedals as well, even the brake has them. Over time, plastic flexes and squishes, producing a loose and flexy feel.
No not really. Flexing plastic is durable, brittle stiff plastic is what snaps. Obviously you want a good mix of both but I see a lot of relief molding in their design which is excellent for preventing durability issues. We live in 2020 where we now have some plastics and glues that are stronger than metals and welds. I’m not saying you’re getting those products in these pedals, but our understanding of materials science has been revolutionary over the past 5 years; it’s just sad that consumers can’t help but still think “plastic bad metal good”
@@marcoVGpolo it's not an engineering/material science issue It's a business culture and model of planned obsolescence that people worry about. Building in planned weaknesses designed to fail 1 day after the warranty expires means that if you get a dud, that your model will have a very short usable life.
Noxxm metal feels better. Plastic breaks easier regardless and metal is just forever strong. Plastic will eventually have issues. I guess you get what you pay for and this is worth it for 200$ Yet for a little more go fanatec and get a bad ass set of pedals
Hey Barry! Thank you for such amazing and detailed reviews. I have a question to ask based on your experience Which one of those pedals would you recommend? The Thrustmaster T-LCM or the Fanatec CSL Elite LoadCell? Thanks again.
Depends on what you think is more desirable. You get an all metal assembly with the CSL. But give up the Hall sensors onT-LCM for Fanatecs potentiometers on the Throttle and Clutch. And there are some other differences to consider. Look at both reviews. It may help you make up your mind.
@@simracinggarage3026 thanks for your reply Barry. I looked at both and like you already stated the trade off is that I either go for longivity vs. Accuracy and consistency. To be honest I just need something durable and long lasting so I feel like the fanatec might be a better option because I bought a g29 about 4 months ago and I'm having problems with the acceleration pedal already, but the g29s don't have hall sensors which is probably more of a problem than having plastic in your pedals... Idk I can't decide.
On the bottom of the pedals underneath the sticker, there is a threaded rod that is tightened down by a nut, that acts as the stopper for the brake pedals return travel. You can adjust it to get more room where the springs would go. Really useful if you want to use different bushings, etc to give it a little bit of a firmer feel
Great review! Thanks for your detailed explanation. I´m considering to buy this pedals but I´m between these and the CSL Elite LC. I also saw your CSL Elite review but I'm not finished deciding. What do you think about this T-LCM? Do you think that its lifecycle will be good despite the plastic?
Oh man my T3PA Pro arrives tomorrow. Why didn't I get this video 2 days ago!! Oh well my next pedal set to buy next year. Thanks for the informative review! :)
I love the review,but I don't understand why Thrustmaster didn't add an engaging clutch mechanism,to the clutch pedal... It would have been a perfect pedal set.
as much as i hate to say it, clearly all the downfalls of this pedal leaves opportunity for T-LCM Pro pedals to come out and easily fix ... for $399.99+ of course lol
Hey Barry, million dollar question. How well do they work on GT Sport? The game's auto pedal calibration doesn't work well with load cells. Many are going to want to know if any of the spring combinations ( I assume the weakest ) will create a max brake threshold. Because, if not, the way game works every time you press a little harder on the brakes that max threshold moves up. You can start a race needing 50kgs for max brake and by the end need 100kgs.
Thanks for the thorough review! I already see how people gonna start selling the same kind of spring sets for throttle and clutch too, because the design of how these pedals travel is kind of the same, they're just hidden under the top cover. That would be the first thing I'd buy to make this pedalset almost ideal.
At 36:20 you can see what looks like a rubber stopper where I'd imagine the pedal ends up at its maximum travel. Maybe this was the cause of the "softness" you described.
Hi, thanks for your video, I only use the Gran Turismo Sport with mi TGT Wheel, that I bought 5 months ago. Later, 3 months ago I bought the Thrustmaster T-LCM Pedals, and after 2 weeks, my accelerator had problems, only sometimes when my car GO to the left side. The problem was that Only Works at 20 or 30% of the total (100%) I put my Claim here in Lima, Peru with the thrustmaster dealer and they change by other one. The problem was not resolved, and they took my TLCM and change some pieces for others. Now, sometimes(exactky two times), The throttle stays on 100% having to turn off the console and restart it. Maybe you can advise me what I can do? Thanks in advance Rafael
So are these "flexing" pedals worth more the money than the Feel VR's`? Less screeching and better finish? Plastic for he pivot axle indicates more flex in the future when it wears out? Or was it solid enough?
@@PistonBrokeGaming Well they are more worth the money then. Can't help thinking if Barry's "screetch & flex" review was the final nail in their struggling story... But the mighty Tm could not put their pedals to the market in time either so it seems it's not a walk int he park for a bigger player either.
I just bought a set and this video will be my type of "bible" to face possible faults in the future... Fingers crossed, I won't have any issues, I am sure. Thank you very much for the ultra-thorough review!!
Great video Barry as usual. If you can remember your settings what did you settle with for non heel toe brake force? Did you stay at 90 or change to something else? How did you go about calibrating in iracing? I feel like I am locking up too often and I'm using the stiffest springs. Thanks ;)
13:21 To manually switch your racing wheel base from T2PA / T3PA / T3PA-Pro mode to T-LCM mode, simultaneously press the downshift (left) paddle on the wheel + the MODE button on your wheel base for 3 seconds. This will allow the pedals to work at a 16 bit resolution, if you have the latest firmware installed (v31.00)!
28:23 To calibrate, the pedals must be connected directly to the PC via the USB cable. Calibration tool won't work with the RJ12 connection type! After calibration, you can reconnect the pedals and the wheel base with the RJ12 cable, because the settings you selected during calibration are already saved in the pedal’s internal memory.
buddy, i cant thank you enough for it.
Thanks! :)
How do you know if it is in tlcm mode?
@@vitusstolberg636 if you unplug und plug the base in the usb port, the red light on the left of the bease blinks 10 times
@@Isamaru7 thx
"Let's Get To It" the point where the manufacturers quiver and hope Barry goes gentle on them as no stone goes unturned.
13:45 "I'm liking what i see here!" ..the point where manufactures pop the champagne and spray each other with them.
Try watching AVE tool testing. He reads the box, pulls it apart, tells you how they lied, then puts it back together in the hopes it still works.
Just started watching Barry and I got to say this guys hands down the best Sim reviewer out there.
For sure! This guy and Will from Boosted Media. They dont fuck around, they give proper in depth reviews.
@@ct8618 for real, the guys a beast...👌
Totally agree in x1,25 ;)
His voice is soooo ......hypnotic.....lol...
Hell yes he is!
Im watching reviews mostly not for the product but the way how it is presented by host. Just pure joy to watch :)
Found this channel recently and gotta say he is the best sim reviewer. So detailed with an added bonus of Bob Ross kind of vibe there. Loving it.
Dude's the Bob Ross of sim racing. Review style and info is unmatched.
Sir, your reviews are absolutely amazing, helped me to go for the T300, now Im checking out this pedals
Really nice to see Thrustmaster finally stepping up to Loadcell Pedals. This was long overdue! Price is okay for what it is, but I'd like to see less plastic and more metal on these. Nice Review as always Barry!
I think there's a good chance that we will see a more metal "pro" version of this in the future, but that would obviously cost more, probably like $100-125 more.
@@revirdkcalb I hope your right.
@@rcg1469 just get the fanatec cs elite lc pedals, they're $200 and all metal
Yes
Thrustmaster is kinda ok when it comes to their sim game equipment. Fanatec is the king of commerical pedals.
On closer inspection it looks like the brake pedal is mounted onto a metal bracket that is screwed into the plastic base, to help it withstand the higher load compared to the throttle and clutch. You should probably add an annotation to clarify this as I, and probably many others, initially thought all the pedals were on plastic pivots.
You are the Bob Ross of Sim Racing. I love your videos.
it is 100kg pressure on the loadcell but due to the lever of the pedals it's less kg at the pedal itself. I'm curious how much it is.
I don't like that some pedal manufacturers only advertise their products with the force their loadcell is capable of and not how much kg is needed on the pedal to get 100kg on the loadcell. Heusinkveld is open about it. The HE Sprint have a 120kg loadcell in the brake pedal and you actually need 64kg on the break pedal to achieve this.
Looking at the T-LCM I would say it would be around 40kg to maximum 50kg effective pressure possible on the brake pedal.
Edit: after taking some measures, taking some angles into account and trying some maths I get around 60 to 65kg pedal pressure to get 100kg on the loadcell... phew..
Surprise...Surprise !!!!😁...phew!!!
This is the only review of this pedals I have to watch. Thank you for very detailed description of everything.
I have these and they’re as solid as the real ones on my old S2000. Sometimes I think the high end sim equipment is actually better than what you’d get on a real car, and paradoxically somewhat unrealistic. Case in point: Very few cars have adjustable pedals of any sort. You just deal with it.
The high end stuff is supposed to mimic race cars not road cars
I would really like to see these pedal reviews with the sim motion turned off for a minute or two. That way we'd be able to see how much actual flex are in the pedals and heel plates.
good point
I like your reviews a lot, but I have a criticism to make.
I bought this pedals soon after your review.
Now, almost an year latter, my break pedal started to have a forward resting point, so forward that the load cell rod disconnected from the pedal at the back.
Opened it up, expenting to find a bend plastic or something like that, because the force caused by the two red springs is very strong when you don't have a little play in the middle spring (deadzone).
My surprise was the break pedal assembly is fully metal and there is an adjustable resting point screw, accessible from the bottom (without opening the structure). That's not emphatized in the review, and should have been - it's a fundamental characteristic of this pedals - the load cell, with very strong metal struture (the middle mounting point of this set is to suport the brake pedal even further).
I have much more confidence in theses pedals, and recommend it to anyone.
Hi, i recently had the same issue with pedal being loose and the resting point screw needed to be tightend up but i did notice it has (or mine does) a red what looks like thread lock and i would assume this needs to be re-applied. Also if you tighten the screw to far it will apply pressure to the load cell kinda as if you was resting your foot on it so i backed it off a touch to the correct point using the calibration tool. Hopefully you see this as i am wondering if the screw came loose again after you adjusted yours?
@@dobbo4596 No, until now the nail polish did the job. It should have something from the start...
This dude always explains everything so chill and really goes into detail! Love your garage man! Me jelly :) lol
Was looking into buying these and found this video, really nice to see the detail you went into covering all the different parts and giving your thoughts. Thanks!
Hi, don't know if anyone shared the info here, but I've just opened it up to see what was inside the ballast and it's dry cement or concrete, so don't bother to try and fill it with something heavier. Truth is it's just a minor help to anyone who can't screw it on a rig. Without screwing it you have to use the softer spring combination and calibrate it to about 60%. It's still better than a "normal" non load cell but you loose most of it's potencial. If calibration is set to heavier than 60% with the soft spring combination the set keeps lifting. Hope his info helps anyone.
Edit: btw concrete from the info I've could understand is about the heavier they could have filled the ballast with, unless they'd poor liquid led in to the ballast.
Cheers
@@SuperBastardSquad Like I said, you won't be able to benefit from it's real potential.
Thanks! What's your long time experience with them?
@@jelly8594 I'm very pleased. I've got the T-Pedals Stand and since they stay against the wall it works very well, no lifting whatsoever.
Hey Barry. I like SMG reviews but as for pedal reviews exclusively, I would say its hard to see the flexing and movement of parts during test when the cockpit is moving. Maybe puting the camera fixed to the rig would fix this.
you can see the flex clearly when he tests the pedals in the Thrustmaster settings
These might be a good entry level load cell choice here in Canada, where Fanatec products cost far more than in the US due to expensive shipping and duties. Even a set of CSL Elite LC pedals ends up costing something like $400-450 CDN here once they get to your door, never mind the Clubsports! At that point you might as well get Heusinkveld Sprints...
I'll be interested to see what these retail for here, could be very interesting to anyone looking to upgrade from T3PAs or a Logitech pedal set.
$275 CDN on pre-order
Not sure where you live but this place in Markham, Ontario called Simulation1 has these for a $270 pre-order sale... planning making a stop there myself. The CSL are going for 350 at the same place
@@chriscorbin5238 ua-cam.com/video/YeAl9kJCB54/v-deo.html custom diy pedals 300 euro
mega.nz/file/6LAE1AKT#nzdwMp5ehb6krzWsXo2AKrLIU0ya2gA9FPZSbzVNWQ4
I love how you are so absolutely calm
And zen as a person, yet an absolute S A V A G E on the rig. Thanks for this video
nice, very informative video. i know it is over 3 years old but i still wanted to say thank you and i really like your calm voice :) youre an all around cool guy! im about to buy one of these.
Reminds me of Bob Ross, but for sim racing, so thorough and such a soothing voice to listen to. appreciate the time you took with this review and all of your reviews
I watched a teardown of a Thrustmaster T2 recently. While I never owned one, that level of build quality is familiar to me as someone that started gaming in the '80s. Because of this, the habit of being perhaps a little too gentle on my equipment has become ingrained. I don't tend to slam gear shifters (even in a real car), or stomp on pedals and it took me a while to feel comfortable resisting a force feedback wheel because I thought I might damage it (I still do with higher settings). I'd probably get on okay with this set due to this trait, but part of me thinks I may be better off upgrading to more robust equipment that I'm not afraid to give some abuse.
Berry, on the main board in side, can you interchange the gas and clutch and hang the unit upside down? Or is that changeable in the software? I know some rigs allow you to hang the pedals.
Two years later and he is still the best reviewer!
There is definitely a need for a T-LCM PRO fully metal version.
yes!
I hope your right!
@@rcg1469 get ready to pay an extra 250 bucks for that xD
@@MK-lj3jf Its almost like it cost money to build items with more expensive materials. Imagine that.
@@albertsunshine I'd have the V3 Fanatec instead of full metal TLCM with that rubbish Clutch.
I like that the gas and clutch pedals feel the same. Good if one wants to use the same set of pedals for both flight and race sims.
Glad to see a highend hardware expert spend time with the mass production gear Thrustmaster still serves me well TS-PC racer an T3pa pro an TH8A shifter
I'm impressed at how you are always so detailed in every video.
So, when you set the brake force/travel to 100% (41:20), don't you negate the effect of the load cell? You are just pushing against a spring with 1:1ratio of travel-to-brake force. It seems to me (without any personal LC experience yet) that you want the force to rise abruptly with limited travel, just like in your car. I think that's why they use springs with different spring rates in the same stack. The soft spring compresses first with little effect on the load cell, then the harder spring(s) generate much more pressure on the load cell without much travel. I look forward to purchasing this unit for my sim rig.
Mans voice is so soothing even on my sound system, best reviewer out there when It comes to in depth sim racing equipment reviews
8:26 i foresee an haptic feedback addon for the pedals for emulating things like ABS.
Nice review, and glad to see Thrustmaster up their game!
About the mounting points at 8:39 the fith one in the center is to secure to your rig the inner brake pedal steel frame to avoid pedal plate flex and fatigue under hard braking, you can see the bolt on the steel brake pedal frame at 30:20 it must allow better precision too especially while using the harder red springs like you did.
Well observed.
This is why I love YT, to get proper in depth reviews and information. Well done guys. Subscription of this channel is already done. :D
First video I've watched of yours. Brilliant video with so much detail! 2 things from me:
1. I love how you're an esk8er like me (saw the LaCroix in the background!)
2. I saw lots of movement side to side when you were using the pedals as you highlighted. For £179.99 it's worth it but I'd rather invest a little more and get something more robust!
Cheers for the great video again. I'm subscribed :D
I could listen to his voice all day
That mounting bracket (if im not mistaken) to make this pedal set compatible with existing Thrustmaster mounting holes, my F-GT cockpit has pre drilled holes for Thrustmaster pedals. Makes the mounting hardware backwards compatible without having to drill
20 seconds into this video I'm already thinking 'this dude should be in radio with that kind of voice'
this
The plastic bushings are probably more responsible for the soft feel than the molded plastic mount. Installing brass or bronze bushings instead of the plastic ones would increase the stiffness but would also increase the stress imposed on the plastic mounts. It would be interesting to see then how long the plastic mounts last. I bought a set of these pedals when they hit the market and they are a good loadcell pedal for the price.
Excellent review. I am going to invest in the T300RS GT set very soon. And after watching this, will definitely be upgrading the pedal set to the load cell unit! Cheers.
great review, as always. this is a very promising set of pedals, considering my background of owning and modifying various pedal sets including ClubSport and Elite LC. For the price this set seems to be the best and most versatile. From this review I can see that it's very easy to invert them - swap the wires on pcb, springs and plates for brake and clutch, done. Barry missed one thing: the brake plate can be adjusted up and down - there 4 sets of holes for bolts in the pedal arm itself, all arms actually. Looking to buy this set for the fun project - take out arms with pcbs and building three separate metal bases for each pedal to get rid of all plastic and be able to move and mount them individually. ClubSport pedals are good as is, but on my set both springs are snapped and loadcell died. On Elite LC pedal set pots are not consistent and pedals have movement at pivot points, so I made a single pedal out of damaged ClubSports for gas/accelerator and use two pcbs now - one for CS gas and vibration motors, another one for Elite LC brake, clutch and Fanatec handbrake. Also on my Fanatec SQ shifter the spring snapped for its Sequencial function, and on my CSL Elite PS4 wheel rim built-it display stopped working which made it impossible to adjust the settings. Not a pleasant experience for me with Fanatec products ( except the CSL Elite PS4 wheel base - it's awesome for my needs). these T-LCMs are great for the price, but I can't find them anywhere in the states at this moment. wonder when they go on sale?
P. S. Got them from Microcenter.
Yea, my first thought was that its just rather simple plastic base, but solid HW in it, so why not simply build metal housing for it. Think thats not that hard to do.
I see Barry's new video notification, i wear my robe, turn down the lights, put a glass of Jack Daniel's and sit back on the couch...
Barry you’re such a tease, I wanna see your thoughts on that Porsche wheel and how it compares to the normal Fanatec Quick Release, and I want to see the setup for that DOF rig!
Jokes aside, good to see that you’re still looking at all the different price ranges. I’m sure many people will find this review very helpful!
I remember modding my t3pa pedals with transmission springs to make the clutch and acceleration pedal stiffer they are color based for stiffness and for the break pedal I used a old top hat bushing I trimmed down to fit the slot under the pedal they still work great today
I would like to make my t3pa throttle and clutch stiffer ...do you know the exact springs you use?
@@valentusslimroast6716 ricmotech.com/Spring_Upgrade_for_Thrustmaster_Pedals_p/rmt-t3papro-tcs.htm
@@valentusslimroast6716 ricmotech => Spring_Upgrade_for_Thrustmaster_Pedals_p/rmt-t3papro-tcs.htm
You sir are absolutely fantastic, I love your videos and information and the way it is deliverd. Thank you for doing this for us!
Best regards
love this channel, no annoying background music, well presented, knowledgeable .. spot on mate .. Subbed
First time viewer here. Excellent video! I love the way its organised into sections and looks at each aspect of the pedals in depth. Very well thought out :) I'm here because im returning to sim racing and researching my new setup.
Those throttle/clutch springs look like they could do with a guiding rod to ensure they don’t bulge/buckle
Many thanks!
Got problems over problems with fanatec. I think, I should give these pedals a try.
Apex V2R Performance Brake Mod for Thrustmaster T-LCM Pedals:
www.apexv2r.com/products/apex-v2r-realistic-brake-feel-mod-for-thrustmaster-t-lcm-pedals
Great video, thank you for the thorough breakdown & detail. Finally received my pedals this week. This video allowed me to remove the ballast: I have a Playseat Challenge and frequently transport it upstairs & downstairs and back, and need it as light as possible. Also, I like a stiffer throttle (than what is on the T3PA), and I haven't used the clutch pedal as I don't have experience driving with it, so I was able to switch the 2 springs between them. Cheers
I'm gonna watch this even when I have the Clubsport V3's. Thanks for the review!
LoL +1 from me.
How are the V3 my friend is selling me his for $200 you think they are worth used?
@@nirjitcheema9770 yes
@@nirjitcheema9770 yeah get the brake performance kit if it doesn't have it
Jet7Xcountry I just bought the v3’s like 2 days ago and are on the way then I see this😂. I think I still made a good purchase.
i dont like plastic so i took out the spacer and left it metal on metal or aluminium, i also lined up the pedals to have a balanced position instead of too high or too low, that will minimze the flex
It looks like the face of the brake pedal is flexing to the side while you're braking.
maybe not tighten enough?
SCRABSDEAD - Motorsport Tributes there’s a pretty high chance
By bet is the crappy plastic flanges they used. I would swap those out with some good quality metal bearing flanges.
@@zera0611 with racing shoes this wont be much of an issue
@@turbodurbo666 If you look closely, the brake pedal has a different flange than the throttle and clutch. It looks like painted sheet metal.
Would have been nice if Thrustmaster could suply the demand which they seem to have big problems with.
Best information and instructional video I have ever watched Hands Down!
Saw the video length and thought this would be a drag. I was absolutely wrong, this was an incredible video with a perfect amount of detail, thank you so much for the in-depth review, I've constantly been having issues with pots and now I think I know what my next investment is. Cheers :)
That sound intro gave me chills
Interesting review of T-LCM, really. But I do consider that springs are definitely not suitable for simulating the progressivity of a real brake pedal, except if associated to soft polymer components which provide an increasing reaction force while being compressed. But, it would have been great getting your opinion on how springs provide (or not) a progressive effort while depressing the brake pedal. As there is no need getting loadcell technology if, in the mean time, the driver just gets a poor idea of how much he is depressing the pedal. And I am not referring to the level of stiffness but to its progressivity.
Thankfully I found Barry. Knowing the details of LC and HA pedals + spacers and stiffer springs, I can make an informed choice and not just hope that more expensive means better.
And I can make a metal brace to reinforce the injection-moulded plastics base.
The first time I used this I was happy and did a 7h session, using my right foot to accelerate and brake with socks... now I have achilles heel tendonitis
Hi,
Great review on the t-lcm pedal set.
Can I ask you, I own a t3pa-pro pedal set with a ricmotec loadcell and harder springs for the clutch and gas throttle, so my question is is the t-lcm worth buying over the pedals I use for the moment?
Metal levers with metal pins resting in cheap plastic is planned obsolescence. The plastic is going to wear down and make the housing looser and looser over time resulting in wobbly-ass pedals. How long do these last?
Not all plastic is cheap and wears super fast. That said, it does seem to be one big part, which means it's unlikely it's a glass impregnated PC or nylon that could withstand the long term forces on it. Would have been real simple to have it be a metal bearing mounted to a thicker plastic section - the plastic would still flex a little bit but the moving part would bear on metal and the plastic would hold up over time with some more support. This design may be strong enough - it's hard to tell now, but the bearing area looks a little thin to me.
@@illegitimate0 yeah it's possible that the flex in the plastic is designed to make it "stronger" by bending like a spring rather than sheering and catastrophically failing. But this is Thrustmaster we're talking about. I have never had a single plastic containing input device they made that wasn't designed to fail within a year or two at most. You buy Heusinkvelds and Bodnars etc (and to some extent Logitech), but you *rent* Thrustmasters. Maybe this device will be the exception?
Forces aren't that strong on throttle and clutch, and the brake pedal have it's own steel frame, that one needs to be solid and about the mounting points at 8:39 the fifth one in the center is to secure to your rig the inner brake pedal steel frame to avoid pedal plate flex and fatigue under hard braking, you can see the bolt on the steel brake pedal frame at 30:20 it must allow better precision too especially while using the harder red springs like SRG did.
That's a very good point. People can push hard on the throttle after bottoming out, but that is unnecessary to design for.
I was shocked at the shitty plastic flanges at the base of the pedals. I think swapping them out with metal ones with bearings would fix the flex.
Nice that Thrustmaster finally come out with a load cell brake, but why not get rid off all the plastic and weak springs..
Lol... Isn't it obvious? These pedals are $200 bucks ffs.
@@revirdkcalb Not really. Add 40 bucks and you have the CSL Elites LC, quality pedals all in metall.
@@RVRCloset With no clutch. And not compatible with Thrustmaster console wheel bases (without added hardware).
@@revirdkcalb No clutch??..
That price is the complete pedal set including the load cell brake.
And the T-LCM is compatible stand alone with pc just like the CSL's.
@@RVRCloset It is also compatible with consoles bro...It comes with the RJ-whatever cable, so it is plug and play with other Thrustmaster wheels. For the CSL you would need extra hardware to play on consoles (with a Thrustmaster wheel).
But you are right. The CSL LC are indeed three pedals, my bad.
Next they should make a direct drive wheel which is unlikely but it’d be nice to see competition against fanatecs lineup.
they did now lol
Nice review, but it seemed odd to me not mentioning that the brake pedal is actually mounted to a metal plate. It's quite obvious, it even has a ground wire tied to it. Or was it mentioned and I missed it?
Best review on UA-cam. Thanks, man. Cheers from Brazil! 🇧🇷🤝🏁
hello, I have owned my set now for just over a year. i use them quite a bit. (sad to say) They are a nice little set. the biggest issue over time is the same as the stock set. the springs in the throttle. now you can take the clutch for a temporary fix, its to heavy to really use for a duration of time. the other issue is the little fasteners that hold the pedals on! they break and your foot can get really hurt if your not wearing shoes. you can find 100 different brake mod stuff but finding that spring???? man i dunno havent had luck yet! Great videos btw most informative no BS well done thanks so much.
Hi Barry; so can you swap the spring for the clutch and throttle or not? I think you were going to check during filming this but you forgot.
Did you try this? Thinking about doing the same
Do load cell pedals help from keeping the brakes from locking up too much? I have inexpensive potentiometer pedals and I CONSTANTLY lockup. I was seriously considering these pedals as an introduction to load cell brakes.
Those metal bars, maybe they could also help reinforce the pedal base to reduce flex? Maybe have like additional bars going across them? Idk
Barry, you’re the man! Watching your videos is so enlightening, educational and at the same time therapeutical👍 if you ever decide to look for another profession, I’m sure you would do just as well in radio or TV hehe.
Congrats for the beautiful job you do reviewing all these products. I’m a big fan!
Joe from Brazil😀
Thanks for this video, you helped me solve a problem that occurred the other day with my brake pedal - the set screw underneath that forms the block to keep the pedal from going too far forward had somehow loosened to the point that all my springs flopped loose. :)
Nice to see that you can remove the clutch pedal, because I don't need it and it seems like it would interfere with my left foot which I use to brake. Exactly the info I searched for. Thank you!
Well done on another thorough review. For me, I'm coming from G25 pedals. I'm now debating over the Ricmotech LC mod for my G25 set or going to this set. The main issue is the use of plastic in the pivot points and the plastic bushings. These will not get tighter with age and in your video, there's already a lot of flex...
Damn and I just bought a T300RS and wanted to get Fanatec V3s... This might be in my budget range!
jinx20001 hahaha yea. I just bought ricmotec load cell for my t3pa pros. Now these come out hahahah
Wouldn't that flexing plastic be a durability concern in the long term?
Same question, I'm really afraid of that and it could make it a no-go for me :s Too bad, apart from this it looks like a really good bang for your buck.
Yep. This makes it a no-go for me as well. It's really too bad as they used metal on the pivot point for the brake pedal and adding that to the clutch and gas wouldn't have raised the price much. However, even so, you still have plastic bushings in the pedals as well, even the brake has them. Over time, plastic flexes and squishes, producing a loose and flexy feel.
No not really. Flexing plastic is durable, brittle stiff plastic is what snaps. Obviously you want a good mix of both but I see a lot of relief molding in their design which is excellent for preventing durability issues. We live in 2020 where we now have some plastics and glues that are stronger than metals and welds. I’m not saying you’re getting those products in these pedals, but our understanding of materials science has been revolutionary over the past 5 years; it’s just sad that consumers can’t help but still think “plastic bad metal good”
@@marcoVGpolo it's not an engineering/material science issue
It's a business culture and model of planned obsolescence that people worry about. Building in planned weaknesses designed to fail 1 day after the warranty expires means that if you get a dud, that your model will have a very short usable life.
Noxxm metal feels better. Plastic breaks easier regardless and metal is just forever strong. Plastic will eventually have issues. I guess you get what you pay for and this is worth it for 200$
Yet for a little more go fanatec and get a bad ass set of pedals
Hey Barry!
Thank you for such amazing and detailed reviews. I have a question to ask based on your experience
Which one of those pedals would you recommend?
The Thrustmaster T-LCM or the Fanatec CSL Elite LoadCell?
Thanks again.
Depends on what you think is more desirable. You get an all metal assembly with the CSL. But give up the Hall sensors onT-LCM for Fanatecs potentiometers on the Throttle and Clutch. And there are some other differences to consider. Look at both reviews. It may help you make up your mind.
@@simracinggarage3026 thanks for your reply Barry. I looked at both and like you already stated the trade off is that I either go for longivity vs. Accuracy and consistency. To be honest I just need something durable and long lasting so I feel like the fanatec might be a better option because I bought a g29 about 4 months ago and I'm having problems with the acceleration pedal already, but the g29s don't have hall sensors which is probably more of a problem than having plastic in your pedals... Idk I can't decide.
@@thinkrtank991 tlcm all day
@@harrygaylordrums I ended up with the V3
On the bottom of the pedals underneath the sticker, there is a threaded rod that is tightened down by a nut, that acts as the stopper for the brake pedals return travel. You can adjust it to get more room where the springs would go. Really useful if you want to use different bushings, etc to give it a little bit of a firmer feel
I have a set of T3PA pedals with a loadcell mod installed. Tempted to upgrade for this.
Great review!
Thanks for your detailed explanation. I´m considering to buy this pedals but I´m between
these and the CSL Elite LC. I also saw your CSL Elite review
but I'm not finished deciding. What do you think about this T-LCM? Do you think that its lifecycle will be good despite the plastic?
Hey, very nice review. One question. Is it possible to change the throttle spring with the clutch spring?
Yes
@@majinho1 swap for stiffer springs?
I think these are great for bundling with the TM higher end wheels. As far a buying standalone, I’d probably go with some Fanatec pedals.
Oh man my T3PA Pro arrives tomorrow. Why didn't I get this video 2 days ago!! Oh well my next pedal set to buy next year. Thanks for the informative review! :)
"DO NOT pull that off. Although I might pull that off." LoL
I didn't expect the godly news reporter voice
I love this guys voice
I love the review,but I don't understand why Thrustmaster didn't add an engaging clutch mechanism,to the clutch pedal...
It would have been a perfect pedal set.
as much as i hate to say it, clearly all the downfalls of this pedal leaves opportunity for T-LCM Pro pedals to come out and easily fix ... for $399.99+ of course lol
Hey Barry, million dollar question. How well do they work on GT Sport? The game's auto pedal calibration doesn't work well with load cells. Many are going to want to know if any of the spring combinations ( I assume the weakest ) will create a max brake threshold. Because, if not, the way game works every time you press a little harder on the brakes that max threshold moves up. You can start a race needing 50kgs for max brake and by the end need 100kgs.
Thanks for the thorough review! I already see how people gonna start selling the same kind of spring sets for throttle and clutch too, because the design of how these pedals travel is kind of the same, they're just hidden under the top cover. That would be the first thing I'd buy to make this pedalset almost ideal.
At 36:20 you can see what looks like a rubber stopper where I'd imagine the pedal ends up at its maximum travel. Maybe this was the cause of the "softness" you described.
Hi, thanks for your video,
I only use the Gran Turismo Sport with mi TGT Wheel, that I bought 5 months ago.
Later, 3 months ago I bought the Thrustmaster T-LCM Pedals, and after 2 weeks, my accelerator had problems, only sometimes when my car GO to the left side.
The problem was that Only Works at 20 or 30% of the total (100%)
I put my Claim here in Lima, Peru with the thrustmaster dealer and they change by other one.
The problem was not resolved, and they took my TLCM and change some pieces for others.
Now, sometimes(exactky two times), The throttle stays on 100% having to turn off the console and restart it.
Maybe you can advise me what I can do?
Thanks in advance
Rafael
So are these "flexing" pedals worth more the money than the Feel VR's`? Less screeching and better finish? Plastic for he pivot axle indicates more flex in the future when it wears out? Or was it solid enough?
You don't have to wait 5 years to POSSIBLY get the TLCM's, FeelVR on the otherhand....
@@PistonBrokeGaming Well they are more worth the money then. Can't help thinking if Barry's "screetch & flex" review was the final nail in their struggling story... But the mighty Tm could not put their pedals to the market in time either so it seems it's not a walk int he park for a bigger player either.
I just bought a set and this video will be my type of "bible" to face possible faults in the future... Fingers crossed, I won't have any issues, I am sure. Thank you very much for the ultra-thorough review!!
Why is this dude not on PBS?
I think the flex might be coming from the plastic wedges behind the pedal pads. At around 48:00 you can see the brake pad twisting under pressure.
Are there any plans to package this with a wheel? Also is everything going to be compatable with the PS5 that will be released this year?
The brake pedal lever base is definitely metal.
Great video Barry as usual. If you can remember your settings what did you settle with for non heel toe brake force? Did you stay at 90 or change to something else? How did you go about calibrating in iracing? I feel like I am locking up too often and I'm using the stiffest springs. Thanks ;)