OK so I've had a 51 husky since new in 1990. Couple months ago I did compression test because it seemed not quite have all the poop it once had. It was down to 110 or so. I took it apart and no shit piston and cylinder looked absolutely beautiful very minimal carbon build and just looked great. It's whole life I ran the husky oil and as time progressed I went to the xp+ semi synthetic and still run it at at 40:1. I slipped a new ring in it and back up to 160 compression. No complaints about the Husky oil from me but the Stihl oil is garbage. Great footage as always! Oh and 51 runs like new again!!
I own 12 pieces of Stihl equipment to maintain a 40-acre estate that has thousands of trees and more than a mile of trails. My oldest Stihl tools are nearly 30 years along. I have never had to replace a bearing, piston, cylinder or head. Without exception I have used Stihl High Performance oil (the orange container) at the factory’s 50:1 recommended mix. There is no reason to use anything else.
That’s because you do not use your saw for hours upon hours upon hours day after day after day you can talk when you do it professionally and you run that saw eight hours a day for 300 days a year then we’ll see how your saw looks buddy
@@snapkrispies5324 Of course not. But there is no saw, from any manufacturer, using any fuel mix from any supplier, that can go 5,000 hours - using your numbers - and thus last two years without major repairs. Seals, bearings, cylinders, pistons, sprockets and virtually every other part will be subject to failure, which is why commercially used equipment has such a short lifespan. Sure, you can spend hours rebuilding a saw to keep it alive, or buy a new one and get back to work. In any case, my point is that Stihl Performance oil at 50:1 is as good or better as anything on the market, even though people selling other brands will tell you otherwise. Fancy that.
@@thardyryllа кого вы слушаете? Он врун, обсирающий и обливающий грязной ложью масло stihl HP ultra, потому что жадный и не может себе позволить его купить. От зависти его распирает и он пытается впарить amsoil💩
@@thardyryll not to jump right in but I wanted to share what I found with that orange stihl oil, I have all my saws ported more on the aggressive side so I was searching for oil that had great lubricant and the least amount of carbon. I ran 5 gallons of the stihl oil through one saw only, I took the jug off to find very little oil film, i didn’t have a problem but that’s what im after. I’m not a huge fan of Amsoil but I did the same thing with the dominator oil and it’s everything I was after.
Just pulled down 2008 ish Ms 361 for crank seals. Ive been running the orange Stihl oil. The 2.5 gallon bottle with 2.0 gallons of gas. There is a minimum of 30 full cords of wood on this saw and the piston and cylinder were amazing. Not a mark, machining pattern was untouched. The saw had a generous coating of oil on the inside. New rings, seals, and gaskets and it runs like the day I bought it. I’ve never run the other Stihl oil .
I've run 40 to 1 Maxima Super Min all my 2 strokes for years and years now with great results. One example is my ktm 250cc dirt bike . I put 1150 hours on the stock bottom end and thats unheard of however I believe the oil was only 50% of the story the other 50% was great air filter maintenance and correct jetting.
Yeah for me I run 30ml oil per litre fuel, not sure what that is in ounces. I'm in Australia on the litre measurements. But it works out to be 33.3:1. Been doing this for many years, with no issues. And i always keep on the rich side up top. Not to rich but just shy so they still pull good, all my machines have mix screws, no m-tronic. I like a bit more oil around the crank than 50:1. Just my opinion. I like the videos, keep it up👍
Ahh Richard I love your light hearted, no bs videos. I started at 50:1 at the beginning, then dropped to 40:1 shortly there after. I have now moved down to 32:1. She smokes more, but it’s a 2 stroke.. I have a bunch of oils I’m experimenting with. So far my favourite is Amsoil Saber, my wallets favourite isn’t though..
I've been running a blend of the Motul 500 and echo red armor at 32:1 mixed with 101LL Avgas for the past several years (4-5 cant remember exactly when I woke up to the oil debate). No carbon buildup and no lead fouling. Besides the EPA, I'm sure the manufacturers love 50:1 because of exactly what you showed in that bottom end. Guaranteed comeback for service lol!
Been using stihl ultra for a year since I got my new saw that came with a free supply of 6 little bottles. Gone through 4 gallons of the stuff so far. Thanks for your videos been binging this weekend. Just ordered some Amsoil sable. I got a stihl a MS251. So 40:1 it is. Just got to figure out the math. 😃
45 years of 2T and I would never run an oil as thin as some of these oils are. They are not true premix oils other than Sabre. An engine that spins 11G plus needs more oil. If you want to run 50:1 or higher run a true premix oil like R50,K2,927,Motul 800, MC-1,H1R, DTP, Super M these are true premix oils. The other oils are actually an injector weight oil or 20wt. In an 11G I run 32:1 without any issues at all. If you are going to buy canned fuel just buy unleaded street legal race gas. Way cheaper!! In a lot of cases here I think the fuel is just as bad as some of the oils are. The only thing that keeps the saw together with the light oils at lean ratios is the lack of HP output or state of tune. I have seen grooves in the con rod upper with light oils even at 32:1 in engines for mx racing. Great stuff Rich keep it going!!
Great info right there! I appreciate the insight. 2t Motorcycles are way more expensive than garden tools. Y'all are way ahead of the OPE when it comes to oil and fuel.
Bean oil pre-mix is trash after 7 days, maybe that's the 32:1 damage you witnessed? I've always ran 32:1 and the only problems occurred was with old pre-mix bean oil (weeks old). I still run 15:1 over babbitt bearings.
Your dead nuts on with using a true premix oil. I’ve been using Motul 800 myself on my saws, everthing from an MS 880 to my tinker toy Homelite XL at somewhere in the 45:1 ratio, give or take a little because these cheap gas cans and of course temp of the oil do contribute to measurement error. Listen to the motocross guys if you want to learn a thing or two about what a chainsaw needs. The 2T guys know what these engines needs and have done the research by trial and error as well. Some of it gets way to involved for the common man like I am, but my saws sure have loved it even at 14k, no load, on the RPM meter. Thanks Richard and keep grinding on the Ultra. I use it on my weedwacker and hedge trimmer so you can always send it my way! Take care
@@richardflagg3084 You guys are catching up on price at least. lol As bad as a lot of the products are I don't know if anybody is catching up. I sent you an email I think you will really enjoy the information. It's on lubes. Sorry I did not respond, and I didn't want to be tough on everyone, but this equipment is just to expensive to not get good use out of it too.
I have a 385 xp husqvarna I bout new in 2001 and I replaced the piston in it once because of the factory recommended 50:1 mix , I put a new piston and ring in it mix my mix at 32:1 and logged and cut firewood with it now for almost 20 years and just pulled it apart and oil on everything no lack of lube .
i have a 385xp and it runs like a bat out of hell. Ok now dont laugh at this next part. Im on my 3rd piston and i think its because of my 50 to 1 i use in all my stihls lol. I love the saw but i do use it commercially in a medium to large tree company. We own about 60 chainsaws last time i counted all stihl except a few large huskys like 2-3120s, 2-395, 2-379, 1-385
I've been running 25-1 with av gas for years now. Av gas is very stable and stores for years without going bad. Used seval types of oil in the past but recently been using echo red armor and as of so far Ive been happy with that oil, don't have too much time with it tho. Found your channel because of the videos you posted about the different oils, keep it up, enjoying the videos like this
Avgas sucks in airplanes. We use it because we have no other choice but it's a gross fuel with lead deposits getting everywhere. Constant oil changes because it builds up in the oil. I would not use it if I didn't have to. You're correct though that it's extremely stable and will last years and still be usable. It's the lead thats the problem though.
@@briantii what do ya mean by you have no choice, 91 unleaded is becoming more common by the day and depending on what engine ya have I've known a number of people to use automotive gasoline in planes. To me the oil change thing isn't a issue, I change oil on 4 strokes very frequently anyways and I haven't noticed the lead buildup in my sparkplugs like happens in aviation. Also I've got some old Wisconsin engines that I don't know if they have hardened valve seats or not. Tho I'd assume they don't, plus I don't use them very frequently so to me 100ll is the perfect fuel for that kinda stuff. And at least in my area avgas isn't much more expensive than non ethanol. Right now 11-15-22 non ethanol is 6.80 a gallon and 100ll is 7.30. so as a percentage that's not much of a difference.
@@tdm8817 I fly a certified aircraft. The engine is certified only for use with 100ll. It needs the octane AND because it's certified if I got creative on fuel then it's actually illegal to operate as the aircraft would be considered unairworthy due to the incorrect fuel. So for me - no choice. Some aircraft can operate on an STC that allows for regular non-ethonal gas but I cannot. I'm surprised you haven't seen build up anywhere but glad you haven't.
@@tdm8817 No way I'm inhaling leaded fumes from these handheld 2 strokes. Pass, I'll just use fresh 10% ethanol fuel gas. Also, if I really need long term storage, there's alkylated gas available (Aspen, Motomix etc). These all last for 5-10 years, if not more, and protect the insides from corrosion. They're pure paraffins, they don't degrade.
@@em4703 typically I try to refrain from holding my mouth over the exhaust while the engine is running. Burned my lips a few times doing that and learned my lesson 😂. Granted I know that leaded fuel isn't ideal however for my situation it's what I like best. If your situation is different that's fine. And if aviation comes out with a unleaded option that lasts just as long without going bad I'd happily use that.
I'm just a firewood guy - watched three of your teardown videos and am now convinced of going 40:1, especially for my new ms261cm. Thanks and hats off to you!!
I run a tree care business cut 40-50 tone of wood pre year and push my stuff hard on how ultra with 95 octane fuel don't have these issues? Would quality of fuel be a issue here? Also I swap filters halfway through the day if need be
I use motomix with stihl ultra oil in my KM130 (4 mix) and haven’t had any problems with it in 13 years (aside from a carb replacement). I read somewhere that the ultra oil was blended for 4 mix engines and NOT conventional 2 strokes. For my chainsaws, I use regular Stihl oil and premium gas, so those don’t get the ultra oil. For bearings to seize up like that, I’d say that saw went through a tank of straight gas.
I use 2 stroke oil made by French fuel giant; TOTAL ENERGIES. It's branded "TOTAL Pro Sylva 2T SYN." It is extremely affordable, and operationally effective, hence it is my choice of 2 stroke oil for use in my chainsaws and trimmers. It is also JASO FD rated.
Can’t go wrong with 40:1, I use Schaeffer’s and Amsoil Sabre. Swapping to Echo Red Armor when I run out of these. All my two stroke equipment gets muffler modifications, 40:1, and a retune…. EPA can sukkit!
@@richardflagg3084 Ain’t nothing to preach, that’s just what I do that works for me. If you tell me you run 100:1 cause it starts easier/runs cleaner…. I’m just gonna say if i ran my equipment on that it wouldn’t last but if it works for you, roll with it.
I've used a fair bit of the Stihl ultra oil and while I didn't have any lubrication issues with it in my weedwackers or leaf blowers (I ran 40:1 at the leanest), the smell of the exhaust gave me headaches for hours. Smells like burning laundry detergent.
That’s why I check my saws with a tach. I had a ms-261 and it scared me to death when the tach said 14,500 and change. And there was not a thing I could do about it because it was Memtronic.
I just bought a 661 cm and the Stihl guy actually said to make a 45:1 mix instead of 50:1 Ive always used stihl oil in my stihl but always put more the 20mls per litre normally around 25 or 30 mls per litre. Not sure about the ultra though always used the blue oil.
I have a 92 kdx200 that I bought not running. Had to work on the power valves and stator. I did not do the rings. Untold hours on the bike when I got it. I have ran 32 to 1 and have over seventy hours on it.
My brand new bone stock ms 261 turned 14,500 on my tach which is why I got rid of it, because no saw will last at. That rpm for long. I had a brand new MS 170 that turned the same rpm until I richened it up, slightly, and got it down to 13,000 and change. Normally, I set my saws to 12,600-12,800. I think most of the carbon scoring you see is a result of using ethanol gas. I do not use anything but premium non-ethanol gas.
ethanol doesn't make carbon... oil does... particularly oil that isn't burned away in the combustion process. and lots of saws live a long healthy life at well over 14k rpm... some oils (particularly castor based products, will absolutely carbon load if not ran at high RPM and stihl Ultra is a castor based oil)
I been using it for 20 years. I do 300 + tree jobs a year and cut 3000 face cord of firewood a year. I build saws same as you also and my cylinders look 0, nothing, opposite of that. Never had bearing issues at all!!
@@richardflagg3084 50:1 I have used every oil on the market. For long periods to test the oils. There is no second choice for me. I buy it buy the cases. When you use the sthil ultra need to run 89 if you use 93 the oil and fuel will separate. I have 372x torque built that I use everyday 2 are 8 years old run 5 hours streight every day blocking wood on tree jobs. I can tare 1 apart for you. Have 8 445 husqvarna clamshell home owners saws that I been using to cut brush run wide open everyday thousands of cuts a day. Never I bearing failure not 1! Bearing failure usually comes from fines or operator error Chain over tightening #1!!
I've got a little ms250 that's almost 15 year's old, it has cut way over 100 loads of wood, lots of times in SC heat. All I have ever used is stihl ultra. Its never been in the shop, replaced air filter and 3or4 plugs. Mix it a little heavy, let's say gas is $3.50 per gallon, I put mabe $3.30 in jug. I also put a little gas in bottle shake it up and pour in jug.
100 loads of wood over the course of 15 years is not a lot... when i lived in southwestern new york as a kid, we would burn 25-30 cord of wood a year (we burned year round... heat the house in the winter and the in ground pool in the summer... our neighbors loved us lol)
I have been running saws as a logger and firewood processor and sales. 13 yrs I have always used good quality 2stroke oil at 40 :1 never stihls shit dirt bike oil and always high octane gas highest I can get so 94 97 and have never had no issues I just got a 500i what do you recommend for that I’m using 40:1 and she seems to like it
Amsoil Saber at 40:1 yields the best oil film in the crankcase and burns the cleanest of any I've seen. I've got a few videos I made recently with Saber. One was with a ms200t and the other was a 395xp. They look damn good inside.
@@richardflagg3084 Glad to see I am not the only one who uses the saber at 40:1. I mentioned it somewhere else years ago and a bunch of dry jointed armchair warriors jumped all over me about how I am wasting my money and I should use it at 100:1. I've been super happy with it at 40:1, and the VP racing 2 cycle oil as well. The engines are always spotless inside and run great. The only engine I ever saw that didn't like it was a Stihl FS90R, it ran OK but a big sluggish. It ran just fine on the VP racing at 40:1 though. I sold that thing, got tired of it's monthly periods.
@@MattsRageFitGarage I'm not a big fan of running Saber at 80 or 100:1. I've seen long term piston skirt wear from 80:1. The tree company I work at part time used it for years like that. No failures but some wear. Saber burns really well at 40:1 and buying by the quart still saves a ton of money compared to premeasured bottles.
@@richardflagg3084 I've used it at 50:1 at the leanest, I just don't have it in me to run my equipment I paid my hard earned money for at 80:1 or 100:1.
Husqvarna did some testing in the mid 70's that was very interesting. They put 3 identical stock engines on a dyno and ran them for several days at varying RPM and load conditions. Then both motors were torn down and inspected. The engine running CASTOR based oil had the least wear, followed by the synthetic oil, and finally the engine running standard 2-cycle oil. A second test they performed was to run synthetic in 2 identical engines and one was run at 24:1, the other was run at 50:1 The engine that ran 24:1 had less piston skirt wear, and less rod bearing wear, but had the same main roller bearing wear as the engine run at 50:1. One small point. No one ever broke an engine by using too much oil [although it does produce more spooge].
carbon loading can absolutely kill an engine... all it has to do is find its way into the bottom end and then it will destroy bearings... that's not subjective... that's fact
Great info my man. You may want to test a different Maxima product. Castor is not ideal, but could be used in a pinch. Formula K2 however, is designed for this type of work. Any way you give us an opinion on that at say 32 -40 to 1? I truly believe it will perform well. We have been screaming at high RMP with Maxima Super M and then Formula K2 and things are always slick and clean when we check. I dirt bikes of course. I just use the same stuff in everything now. Formula K2 at 32:1 or 36:1.
I ran 50-1 of really quality oil for a long time, but after tearing into a saw on 50-1 vs 32-1 I was sold. Not to mention better lubricationwith a slightly leaner tune? Even if my plug is white, my bearings will be alright 😂
if the plug is white, you're lean... and if you're lean, your saw will eventually die... although probably not from bearing failure... more likely from piston scoring... lean means hot and hot means melting aluminum pistons. fatten up your high jet just a touch till the plug is a light tan and you should be able to run that saw for years and years
Castor based oil? Certainly not at 50:1 and shelf life of bean oil pre-mix is about a week under the best conditions. Fouling issues occur mainly from running too rich and a hotter plug will compensate for that, in my experience.
Hmm I don't really know. Work at a state park and we run all stihl stuff on ultra with 87. Never had a issue with it. Everything usually starts and runs even after sitting over winter or longer. Kind of sold me on the Ultra for that reason. However this has me doubting it.
Rich nice explanation. Everyone should replay what you say at the end, that was confirmed to me by three independent 2stroke certified mechanics a long time ago.
I couldn't tell if the rings were seized......be that as it may, but when you have the discoloration and scoring on the exhaust side," most generally", the saw is either running on the rich side or the saw being feathered, not running at full rpm. If scoring on the intake side ," most generally" it's running lean or a cold seizure. The proper fuel/oil ratio gets funky if keep refilling your storage container before its all the way empty. Use as high as octane as you can find with no ethanol., pay attention to manufacturers stated fuel/oil ratio. Especially if unit is under warranty.
Since I don't know anything about engines, and this popped up in my feed, there is no crank-case oil for the bottom-side of a 2-stroke engine? I expected to see some oil below the piston...
A 2 stroke engine gets its lubrication from the oil mixed into the fuel (gasoline). This is the ONLY source of lubrication for the crank bearings, connecting rod, wrist pin needle bearings, and piston rings; and thus extremely important to “get it right” if you care about the longevity and duration of your 2 stroke machines. A 4 stroke engine has mechanical valves, and lubricating oil that resides in the lower crankcase. This oil is NOT mixed with the fuel, and should be changed at specified maintenance intervals.
@@mateobrainardo4770 Thanks for the info, as my minimal engine exposure is mostly motorcycles when I was a kid, with lower a gear box full of gear oil.
I bought 6 bottles pack of Stihl Ultra oil. After much research, I return it for 6 packs of EchoBlend Gold. Hopefully they are better. Did my first 40:1 mix on my new G366
I am very careful not to mix too much gas with the oil on a 2.5 gal mix I usually stop pump at 2.4 gal. Im wondeering if that is good enough. So far have no issues but not a lot of time on saw eather.
I have several stihl’s and they have all been ran on ultra. Although I mix it closer to 40:1, I am looking for a different oil to use because I hate the carbon buildup. 50:1 seems scary to me cause in my dirt bike days it was 32:1.
After reading lots of stuff and looking at my own equipment I settled on 42.5:1. In my opinion running modern engines at 32:1 is a bit too much oil and 50:1 just isn’t enough. I never ran Stihl Ultra and have always stayed with the plain old Stihl HP. I buy HP by the 4 gallon case.
40:1 with the original orange bottle is fine. There are some others that do well like Saber, Red Armor. Run what you like just do a little reading and shoot for an FD rated oil.
Hey Richard, that’s what I like bout you, keeping it real! I recently pulled the muffler off my 16 year old Husky 345, as it and my elbow got hit by a shifting log whilst I was clearing out storm damage. Long story…Anyhoo, I was pleasantly surprised to find the side of the piston looking like it just came out of the factory in Sweden! I’ve almost always used Husqvarna oil, and High Octane NON E gas, whenever I could get it. Station 15 minutes or so from my House has been selling 91 Non E gas for awhile now. I use Pre mix on occasion, and when putting the saw up for awhile. And yes, almost always somewhere around 40:1, or mainly 45:1. I recently had a Stihl Dealer Tech tell me that I should run 50:1 in my new 180. He explained that the extra gas allowed for better cooling? I will tell you Richard, that Stihl Ultra the dealer sold me (warranty extension) sure smokes a lot, and it smells ! 🥴 Out of curiosity, I used the mix for the Husky, in the 180, and it ran and smelled better! 😆 I dont think I will use the Ultra, based upon a few of your videos, although I paid for it. I’m not concerned about the extra warranty. Keep em coming! Stay well! 👍✌
Just because Stihl will double your warranty based on an oil purchase doesn't mean you have to run it...... I'm a simple man. More lubrication means less friction. I don't need to throw out $20 words to make my point. It does help to tear a saw down live and report the findings........
@@richardflagg3084 Thanks for reply. Oh, I know about the warranty thing; I know the Stihl Dealer, and they will take care of me no matter what, or so I hope! BTW, You’re a beast on a tear down Sir, gotta tell ya! 😊👊
Look for an oil that has the JASO "FD" rating. (Ultra is FB rated) FD rated oils have a much better detergent package and will keep the carbon build up to a minimum without sacrificing lubrication. The most readily available ones are: Saber, Husqvarna XP+, and All of the Echo oils.
Is STIHL Ultra good as an expensive weed killer? .I sure didn't like it when I ran it in my vintage saws. So far the Red Armor seems to be doing an excellent job in my vintage clunkers.
Most FD rated oils will do well. Amsoil Saber, Red Armor, Husqvarna XP+, Echo Power Blend Gold to name a few. Do a little research and you'll see, Ultra is an FB rated oil and just doesn't have the detergent package to suit the Ester base. The motorcycle shops carry some of the best oils on the market, if you have one near you. There's a lot more at stake with a $7000 dirt bike than a garden tool. The world is your oyster
Been running my race outboard, jetski, all my power equipment and dirtbike all at 50:1 and never once had an issue. Lots of oils will let you run 100:1 (i dont). I would bet my bottom dollar 50:1 will never cause an issue and no need for 94 or av gas or anything wild. Non ethanol 89 mixed 50:1 will give you years of good performance
Would it hurt to mix oils? Say a guy has a bunch of stihl ultra put back, would mixing a bottle of ultra and a bottle of belray to make 2 gallon cause funky stuff?
A 40:1 mix is not going to stop the bearing from being trashed if the computer in those saws allow it to turn 14,500. I traded off that 261 because I knew what was going to happen, sooner or later. I checked my new ms 170 a few weeks ago and it was turning 14,500, but I richened up the carb to 13,050 and will richen it up a little more. My limit is 12,600-12,800 for any saw, regardless of who makes it. Concerning the 261, not even a 1:1 mix would save a saw that can turn 14,500. That is why you have to be able to limit WFO by some means. That is also why I do not like or buy any saw that cannot be limited by turning out the H jet. Stihl also sells a 261 with an adjustable carb but they want more for it than the 261 C-M.
Why rev the piss out of the saw when it has no load on it. I am sure it does not get to 14,500 in a cut. At least it should not if operated properly and the chain is not dull.
@@mattfleming86 everybody wants to blame failures on one thing or another. Anything but them selves. As a gunsmith for thirty years I learned failures were 95% due to the owners failure to clean and lubricate, properly, their firearms. In other words -operator failure. Saws are no different. If you feed them good food and maintain them properly, they will not let you down. I see folks on Utube that brag they left a saw out in the snow or rain for several days as a justification why it was so hard to start. Mine are in my shop or inside the house. I think more of them than leaving them out in the elements. Enuff said.
Man I'm really enjoying your videos and thanks for the sound advice.. I'm considering going 40:1 now after watching your videos. It's true what you say it's only a tiny bit more oil in the whole gallon. Is there any negatives at all going 40:1? Will you lose some performance etc? I'm sold anyway if it can only lengthen the life of my saw..
Hi, to be fair the saw is fitted standard with a 16” bar and 325 chain, when larger bars are fit to small saws which weren’t designed to have large bars the saw can’t rev and breath which means it can’t get fuel/oil. Small saws are designed to rev, if you need to run a big bar buy a big saw, don’t blame the oil or the saw
Don't fall for the Kool Aid. That's why I take the time to do these vids. You shouldn't have to split hairs to "make" your oil perform well. Great oil will perform well regardless of conditions. Ultra is not one of those. The the party line is... "Your not running it right" That's just silly to be honest.
If that saw was run with the factory bar and the fuel oil ratio that was recommended by the manufacturer who I would assume they know what there saws need, the saws will last for a long time, once again the oil should not be blamed, the saw which you showing in the video was running a bar well outside the recommendation of the manufacturer. Take the tires off your car and put ones on double the size, it doesn’t work.
im running lots of different 2 stroke gears(weedtrimmer,blower,hedgetrimmer etc) with my lawn mowing business and i dont have much oil choices here but stihl oil, so should i do 40:1 to all my gears with Stihl Ultra oil? thanks
stick to the orange bottle if you're stuff isn't turning a lot of RPM. The orange bottle is a conventional oil and the gray bottle is a castor blend. castor oil tends to not burn off completely at lower RPM which leads to excessive carbon build up. if it makes its way down the transfers and into the bottom end, it will inevitably eat the bearings
The 4 mix units don’t carbon up as bad. They have a slightly higher operating temp. Remove the valve cover and inspect for discoloration and deposits. It’s a good indication how it’s running. I’d look into a higher grade oil, FD is the highest rating out as of now. The Ultra is FB rated.
I had a 261 that burned out in about 1 year. Scored piston. I was using 40:1, but stihl tried to call me stooopid saying it ran unmixed gas saying it ran lean overheated blah blah. I took care of the saw and everything else was fine. They couldn’t find what else to blame. I don’t think it’s the gas mix but simply I just overused the saw…despite being pro rated, I don’t think it’s a real pro saw. I got it with expectations it was something you could run all day, which I did for a project for some time then it was ran intermittently…then one larger tree project it just didn’t start. I took care of it including ethanol free 89 gas 40:1 mix…stihl failed. So far this has been my overall experience with stihl chainsaws…good specs, design, ergonomics, but poor reliability. Pro saw or not they all crap out if you use them enough. Expect 2-3 out of a saw. Got a 462 to later find out the earlier version had a piston design problem and was redesigned (i have newer versions). Owners of older versions own a timebomb that when blows up stihl says the owner is to blame. If this 462 fails in a few years, I will never buy another stihl product.
I'm curious if you've seen lubrication issues using 50:1 pond water in Stihl's "4 Mix" equipment? I've been running a KM 131 for a couple years using the HP Ultra that the shop forced me to buy for the warranty. Just did a valve adjustment a couple months ago and the top of the piston still looks shiny and new through the plug hole. Wondering if these 4 mix engines might be designed to work with the stihl oil chemistry better than the traditional 2 strokes do, or should I run out and mix up some Red Armour? I've also got a BR 800... love the tools, they run perfect and want to keep them tip top. Would love to hear your thoughts. Have you seen a lot of 4 mix units in the shop for the same reasons? Thanks for the videos, great channel.
Yes, the 4 mix units run slightly higher operating temps and the carbon is less of an issue. Next time you have the valve cover off inspect for deposits. When you decide to change, the Red Armor would be a great choice.
Just curious, have you tried Lucas semi synthetic? I bought a bottle a while ago and still haven’t tried it, been using vp 50:1 premix fuel but need to start mixing my own, are there oils you’d recommend for running at 50:1?
I'd stick with the VP. You can save a few bucks buying it in the 16oz bottle for $10 vs $4 for the 2.6oz premeasured. That's current pricing at Tractor Supply. It even has a measuring cup built into the bottle.
Kind of reminds me of my ms 251 last spring. That POS about took my arm off. I finally poured out the Red Armor and replaced it with Moto Mix and it cranked right up after it bitched for a few pulls. The Red Armor had only been in it for seven months, but it was supposed to be stabilized for two years. It is not. It is a great lubricant but stabilized it is not.
Here's my two cents on what's going on here. The company I work for runs stihl Ultra exclusively at 50:1, and the only issue we've had engine wise has been with our MS261s (which seems to be the saw you are featuring here and in other videos). That tells me it's probably not the oil, but rather something with that particular saw. I can tell you that both of our 261s were heading in that direction piston wise until I was able to remove the limiters on the carb and properly tune them. They were both set way too lean from the factory and the limiters prevented proper adjustment. I respect the amount of experience you have working on saws, but I just think you've gotten this one wrong and are blaming the wrong variable here.
Pull the mufflers and prove me wrong. If I could stress anything it would be to use a more modern two stroke oil. Ultra has an JASO FB rating. It says so right on the back of the bottle. Look for an FD rated oil. You won't sacrifice lubrication and you'll gain the detergent package to keep the carbon build up to a minimum. Have a look at the video I made titled What oil should you run. It explains the rating system and what common oils carry the top tier rating. Thanks, Rich
I've been running VP 50:1 for years with out issues. Now after all the reading and videos like this... . . Im adding 3oz of good oil to my 5 gallon of VP 50:1. I wish I could find 40:1 or even 32:1 VP Locally. Im a believer - 40:1 at a minium. Thanks for sharing!
OK. You asked to chime in on my Real world experience...... 10:20 I believe that you & I are about the same age Based on my knowledge, it was not the Stihl Ultra. Option #1 -A piece of metal or hard rigid plastic flake fell into the fuel tank. Plastic & metal gas cans consistently shred on most refills. Option #2 - Also on the Sthil saw, the opening of the fuel tank is badly designed. Unfortunately, the opening recesses in. Which is a vacuum to draw in the shavings & dirt that is laying on the dirty saw. Option # 3 - The dirt & crud that is hanging from the bottom of the gas can can fall in. Option # 4 - The saw operator is usually always covered with saw shavings. Option # 5 - The saw operator usually always has dirt on our knees. Option # 6 - The saw operator often allows the saw to run out of gas, too many times. At high speed, It only takes one second, lack of oil to do damage. I hope I am able to teach you some information. You & I can not know everything. I will continue to buy most all brands of oil ( including Stihl Ultra). I did what you asked me to do. You are welcomed. .
There are some Things we don‘t know about that Saw. Was ist blown with a dull chains at to high rpm. To tight chain and the Runtime of it. All these new selfadjusting Saws run very lean and high on rpm. Like Donny Walker says, keep your Chains sharp, don‘t overrev it. Oil is never bad. Saws gettin lighter , Bearings gettin smaller . Saws gettin stronger , rpm goes higher. Stronger engine , less Lifetime. No replacement for Displacement!
Those variables will be covered in the follow up video. I'll plug the saw in and you can see the hours, carb settings and operating temp. The lack of oil film in the crankcase is a major factor.
Real world, the saw in my videos has ran Bel Ray H1R 50:1 since new it will be three years old in march. Has well over a million board feet under its belt. Still runs like new. 50:1 is not a problem if you run a superior oil. That’s how I see it anyway. With that said, Stihl and husky oils are garbage. Especially at 50:1.
I misspoke. I checked the MSDS sheet and it's ester based full synthetic oil. Good for you (less toxic fumes) and biodegradable (good for the environment). It has a very high flash point and if not run “right” will leave excessive carbon. There are plenty of more “forgiving “ oils out there to use, ester based or not.
@@rivtool515 The detergent package in JASO FD rated oils still provides excellent lubrication, but burns cleaner under a broader range of operation. So if you don't "run it right" you don't have the unusual coking/carbon build up. Stihl Ultra is a JASO FB rated oil which classifies it as a low smoke oil, according to JASO.
I run 50:1 in all of my 2 strokes. My blowers, saws (i run a lot of saws), even the weed eater at home. BUT...I use race gas. And penzoil 2 stroke oil. OH! I run 50:1 in my outboard too, with 89 non ethanol. No problems ever.
I've learned you shouldn't go over 40:1 and no less than 20:1 ratio.30:1 is the best ratio for pretty much any gasoline engine.A good balance between both oil and gasoline.
Ouch! I like to try different oils from time to time but haven't ran hp ultra other than what's in motomix plus a little extra to bump it up to 40-44:1 I definitely don't trust 50:1. oil and plugs are cheaper than bearings and cranks! Since watching Aaron A Lynch's g372 teardown I've been running maxima castor 927 at 32:1🤪 so far, it not only seems clean but is cleaning the piston crown in my husqvarna handheld blower😃 by the transfers are actually shiny!
25:1 won’t foul plugs either. I ran 3 gallons of RA and 2 gallons of Dominator at this ratio in several saws as a cleaning test to see if a fatter ratio cleans up carbon better. Long story short, a quality fuel system cleaner works waaaayyyy faster.
In my experience people say they never use old or inaccurately measured fuel, but they frequently get it wrong. We all make mistakes. Most all mechanics will tell you most seized 2 stroke equipment is down to bad or poorly mixed fuel. Stihl know how to build saw and I think Castrol know how to make oil. Stihl is not going to promote an oil that that is going to shorten the life of their saws.
I still use ultra at 50:1 and have been since it came out. When I get a chance I'll tear down my 261. I've bought it new and only used ultra so I'll get back with you. 🍻
I know this is killing you. This is just another example of needing a more forgiving oil if you don't run it "right". Thanks for all your feedback and support. I look forward to hearing how your 261 looks inside.
@@richardflagg3084 🤣 killing me! You have no idea! But on a serious note, you have got my curiosity going since my 261 has only had ultra in it. But I tune all my saws to STIHL's settings. And run them full throttle. It may be a few weeks as we're just getting into snowmobile race sleds.😁
32:1 I don't care what anyone says. I raced two stroke MX dirt bike s built hundreds of Outboard motor s bikes and saws. Synthetic oil best . Air-cooled saws screaming full of sawdust clogged fins prone to melting . Concrete saws I always run extra oil even.
OK so I've had a 51 husky since new in 1990. Couple months ago I did compression test because it seemed not quite have all the poop it once had. It was down to 110 or so. I took it apart and no shit piston and cylinder looked absolutely beautiful very minimal carbon build and just looked great. It's whole life I ran the husky oil and as time progressed I went to the xp+ semi synthetic and still run it at at 40:1. I slipped a new ring in it and back up to 160 compression. No complaints about the Husky oil from me but the Stihl oil is garbage. Great footage as always! Oh and 51 runs like new again!!
I own 12 pieces of Stihl equipment to maintain a 40-acre estate that has thousands of trees and more than a mile of trails. My oldest Stihl tools are nearly 30 years along. I have never had to replace a bearing, piston, cylinder or head. Without exception I have used Stihl High Performance oil (the orange container) at the factory’s 50:1 recommended mix. There is no reason to use anything else.
That’s because you do not use your saw for hours upon hours upon hours day after day after day you can talk when you do it professionally and you run that saw eight hours a day for 300 days a year then we’ll see how your saw looks buddy
@@snapkrispies5324 Of course not. But there is no saw, from any manufacturer, using any fuel mix from any supplier, that can go 5,000 hours - using your numbers - and thus last two years without major repairs. Seals, bearings, cylinders, pistons, sprockets and virtually every other part will be subject to failure, which is why commercially used equipment has such a short lifespan. Sure, you can spend hours rebuilding a saw to keep it alive, or buy a new one and get back to work. In any case, my point is that Stihl Performance oil at 50:1 is as good or better as anything on the market, even though people selling other brands will tell you otherwise. Fancy that.
@@thardyryllа кого вы слушаете? Он врун, обсирающий и обливающий грязной ложью масло stihl HP ultra, потому что жадный и не может себе позволить его купить. От зависти его распирает и он пытается впарить amsoil💩
@@thardyryll not to jump right in but I wanted to share what I found with that orange stihl oil, I have all my saws ported more on the aggressive side so I was searching for oil that had great lubricant and the least amount of carbon. I ran 5 gallons of the stihl oil through one saw only, I took the jug off to find very little oil film, i didn’t have a problem but that’s what im after. I’m not a huge fan of Amsoil but I did the same thing with the dominator oil and it’s everything I was after.
@@snapkrispies53248hours, 300 days?
Just pulled down 2008 ish Ms 361 for crank seals. Ive been running the orange Stihl oil. The 2.5 gallon bottle with 2.0 gallons of gas. There is a minimum of 30 full cords of wood on this saw and the piston and cylinder were amazing. Not a mark, machining pattern was untouched. The saw had a generous coating of oil on the inside. New rings, seals, and gaskets and it runs like the day I bought it. I’ve never run the other Stihl oil .
I've seen the same results with the Orange bottle at 40:1. Good stuff!
I've run 40 to 1 Maxima Super Min all my 2 strokes for years and years now with great results. One example is my ktm 250cc dirt bike . I put 1150 hours on the stock bottom end and thats unheard of however I believe the oil was only 50% of the story the other 50% was great air filter maintenance and correct jetting.
That's impressive! And yes, take care of your equipment and it will take care of you.
Yeah for me I run 30ml oil per litre fuel, not sure what that is in ounces.
I'm in Australia on the litre measurements.
But it works out to be 33.3:1.
Been doing this for many years, with no issues. And i always keep on the rich side up top. Not to rich but just shy so they still pull good, all my machines have mix screws, no m-tronic. I like a bit more oil around the crank than 50:1.
Just my opinion.
I like the videos, keep it up👍
Thank you!
1 fluid ounce is the approx. conversion
30:1 cheap insurance and they still run great
Ahh Richard I love your light hearted, no bs videos. I started at 50:1 at the beginning, then dropped to 40:1 shortly there after. I have now moved down to 32:1. She smokes more, but it’s a 2 stroke.. I have a bunch of oils I’m experimenting with. So far my favourite is Amsoil Saber, my wallets favourite isn’t though..
I've been running a blend of the Motul 500 and echo red armor at 32:1 mixed with 101LL Avgas for the past several years (4-5 cant remember exactly when I woke up to the oil debate). No carbon buildup and no lead fouling. Besides the EPA, I'm sure the manufacturers love 50:1 because of exactly what you showed in that bottom end. Guaranteed comeback for service lol!
I also run 100LL when i can get it! Its lack of ethanol certainly helps as well!
Been using stihl ultra for a year since I got my new saw that came with a free supply of 6 little bottles. Gone through 4 gallons of the stuff so far. Thanks for your videos been binging this weekend. Just ordered some Amsoil sable. I got a stihl a MS251. So 40:1 it is. Just got to figure out the math. 😃
Дурак🤡 лечи голову! Amsoil💩
45 years of 2T and I would never run an oil as thin as some of these oils are. They are not true premix oils other than Sabre. An engine that spins 11G plus needs more oil. If you want to run 50:1 or higher run a true premix oil like R50,K2,927,Motul 800, MC-1,H1R, DTP, Super M these are true premix oils. The other oils are actually an injector weight oil or 20wt. In an 11G I run 32:1 without any issues at all. If you are going to buy canned fuel just buy unleaded street legal race gas. Way cheaper!! In a lot of cases here I think the fuel is just as bad as some of the oils are. The only thing that keeps the saw together with the light oils at lean ratios is the lack of HP output or state of tune. I have seen grooves in the con rod upper with light oils even at 32:1 in engines for mx racing. Great stuff Rich keep it going!!
Great info right there! I appreciate the insight. 2t Motorcycles are way more expensive than garden tools. Y'all are way ahead of the OPE when it comes to oil and fuel.
Bean oil pre-mix is trash after 7 days, maybe that's the 32:1 damage you witnessed? I've always ran 32:1 and the only problems occurred was with old pre-mix bean oil (weeks old).
I still run 15:1 over babbitt bearings.
Your dead nuts on with using a true premix oil. I’ve been using Motul 800 myself on my saws, everthing from an MS 880 to my tinker toy Homelite XL at somewhere in the 45:1 ratio, give or take a little because these cheap gas cans and of course temp of the oil do contribute to measurement error. Listen to the motocross guys if you want to learn a thing or two about what a chainsaw needs. The 2T guys know what these engines needs and have done the research by trial and error as well. Some of it gets way to involved for the common man like I am, but my saws sure have loved it even at 14k, no load, on the RPM meter.
Thanks Richard and keep grinding on the Ultra. I use it on my weedwacker and hedge trimmer so you can always send it my way! Take care
@@thisisyourcaptainspeaking2259 No it was an OE factory race oil designed to run at 32:1 mix ratio.
@@richardflagg3084 You guys are catching up on price at least. lol As bad as a lot of the products are I don't know if anybody is catching up. I sent you an email I think you will really enjoy the information. It's on lubes. Sorry I did not respond, and I didn't want to be tough on everyone, but this equipment is just to expensive to not get good use out of it too.
Excellent video Rich! I've been running 36:1 in my 261cm. Everything looks good inside.
I have a 385 xp husqvarna I bout new in 2001 and I replaced the piston in it once because of the factory recommended 50:1 mix , I put a new piston and ring in it mix my mix at 32:1 and logged and cut firewood with it now for almost 20 years and just pulled it apart and oil on everything no lack of lube .
i have a 385xp and it runs like a bat out of hell. Ok now dont laugh at this next part. Im on my 3rd piston and i think its because of my 50 to 1 i use in all my stihls lol. I love the saw but i do use it commercially in a medium to large tree company. We own about 60 chainsaws last time i counted all stihl except a few large huskys like 2-3120s, 2-395, 2-379, 1-385
I have about 10 stihl with hardly no paint left on the them but still run great lol
I've been running 25-1 with av gas for years now.
Av gas is very stable and stores for years without going bad. Used seval types of oil in the past but recently been using echo red armor and as of so far Ive been happy with that oil, don't have too much time with it tho.
Found your channel because of the videos you posted about the different oils, keep it up, enjoying the videos like this
Avgas sucks in airplanes. We use it because we have no other choice but it's a gross fuel with lead deposits getting everywhere. Constant oil changes because it builds up in the oil. I would not use it if I didn't have to. You're correct though that it's extremely stable and will last years and still be usable. It's the lead thats the problem though.
@@briantii what do ya mean by you have no choice, 91 unleaded is becoming more common by the day and depending on what engine ya have I've known a number of people to use automotive gasoline in planes.
To me the oil change thing isn't a issue, I change oil on 4 strokes very frequently anyways and I haven't noticed the lead buildup in my sparkplugs like happens in aviation. Also I've got some old Wisconsin engines that I don't know if they have hardened valve seats or not. Tho I'd assume they don't, plus I don't use them very frequently so to me 100ll is the perfect fuel for that kinda stuff. And at least in my area avgas isn't much more expensive than non ethanol. Right now 11-15-22 non ethanol is 6.80 a gallon and 100ll is 7.30. so as a percentage that's not much of a difference.
@@tdm8817 I fly a certified aircraft. The engine is certified only for use with 100ll. It needs the octane AND because it's certified if I got creative on fuel then it's actually illegal to operate as the aircraft would be considered unairworthy due to the incorrect fuel. So for me - no choice. Some aircraft can operate on an STC that allows for regular non-ethonal gas but I cannot.
I'm surprised you haven't seen build up anywhere but glad you haven't.
@@tdm8817 No way I'm inhaling leaded fumes from these handheld 2 strokes. Pass, I'll just use fresh 10% ethanol fuel gas. Also, if I really need long term storage, there's alkylated gas available (Aspen, Motomix etc). These all last for 5-10 years, if not more, and protect the insides from corrosion. They're pure paraffins, they don't degrade.
@@em4703 typically I try to refrain from holding my mouth over the exhaust while the engine is running. Burned my lips a few times doing that and learned my lesson 😂. Granted I know that leaded fuel isn't ideal however for my situation it's what I like best. If your situation is different that's fine. And if aviation comes out with a unleaded option that lasts just as long without going bad I'd happily use that.
I really appreciate you taking the time to do these videos. I've been very happy with my klotz at 40 to 1.
I use the Klotz KL-304. It says 50:1 on the bottle but I run 40:1. Smells good and seems to do an excellent job 👍
@@kyoilguy Just dont drink it bro! 😆 😂👍
I'm just a firewood guy - watched three of your teardown videos and am now convinced of going 40:1, especially for my new ms261cm.
Thanks and hats off to you!!
I run a tree care business cut 40-50 tone of wood pre year and push my stuff hard on how ultra with 95 octane fuel don't have these issues? Would quality of fuel be a issue here? Also I swap filters halfway through the day if need be
I really enjoy the shop videos. Not every body just cutting cookies.
I use motomix with stihl ultra oil in my KM130 (4 mix) and haven’t had any problems with it in 13 years (aside from a carb replacement). I read somewhere that the ultra oil was blended for 4 mix engines and NOT conventional 2 strokes.
For my chainsaws, I use regular Stihl oil and premium gas, so those don’t get the ultra oil.
For bearings to seize up like that, I’d say that saw went through a tank of straight gas.
Been using ultra since early ninety, no problem still runs great.I think lot times people dont mix properly.
I use 2 stroke oil made by French fuel giant; TOTAL ENERGIES. It's branded "TOTAL Pro Sylva 2T SYN." It is extremely affordable, and operationally effective, hence it is my choice of 2 stroke oil for use in my chainsaws and trimmers. It is also JASO FD rated.
I had a ring to stick on Dolmar 7900 using Stihl Ultra 50:1. now using formula K2 at 40:1.
Richard, I will agree with Sawman like too see video on the bearings and problem on why it got stiff as all hell.
Can’t go wrong with 40:1, I use Schaeffer’s and Amsoil Sabre. Swapping to Echo Red Armor when I run out of these. All my two stroke equipment gets muffler modifications, 40:1, and a retune…. EPA can sukkit!
Preach brother!
@@richardflagg3084
Ain’t nothing to preach, that’s just what I do that works for me.
If you tell me you run 100:1 cause it starts easier/runs cleaner…. I’m just gonna say if i ran my equipment on that it wouldn’t last but if it works for you, roll with it.
@@richardflagg3084 dats another kewn ass you gotta watch out for them 😂
@@darrellpeak2914 Amen
@@richardflagg3084
😂😂😂
I've used a fair bit of the Stihl ultra oil and while I didn't have any lubrication issues with it in my weedwackers or leaf blowers (I ran 40:1 at the leanest), the smell of the exhaust gave me headaches for hours. Smells like burning laundry detergent.
🤣🤣🤣 It does have a strong odor. Never heard it explained so clearly. Thanks for the comment!!
That’s why I check my saws with a tach. I had a ms-261 and it scared me to death when the tach said 14,500 and change. And there was not a thing I could do about it because it was Memtronic.
High strung little saws like ur 261 and the husky 550 need the very best oil. A little extra wouldn’t hurt either ;-)
I just bought a 661 cm and the Stihl guy actually said to make a 45:1 mix instead of 50:1 Ive always used stihl oil in my stihl but always put more the 20mls per litre normally around 25 or 30 mls per litre. Not sure about the ultra though always used the blue oil.
I have a 92 kdx200 that I bought not running. Had to work on the power valves and stator. I did not do the rings. Untold hours on the bike when I got it. I have ran 32 to 1 and have over seventy hours on it.
My brand new bone stock ms 261 turned 14,500 on my tach which is why I got rid of it, because no saw will last at. That rpm for long. I had a brand new MS 170 that turned the same rpm until I richened it up, slightly, and got it down to 13,000 and change. Normally, I set my saws to 12,600-12,800. I think most of the carbon scoring you see is a result of using ethanol gas. I do not use anything but premium non-ethanol gas.
ethanol doesn't make carbon... oil does... particularly oil that isn't burned away in the combustion process. and lots of saws live a long healthy life at well over 14k rpm... some oils (particularly castor based products, will absolutely carbon load if not ran at high RPM and stihl Ultra is a castor based oil)
I been using it for 20 years. I do 300 + tree jobs a year and cut 3000 face cord of firewood a year. I build saws same as you also and my cylinders look 0, nothing, opposite of that. Never had bearing issues at all!!
What oil/ratio do you run. Iffn ya don’t mind me askin…
@@richardflagg3084 50:1 I have used every oil on the market. For long periods to test the oils. There is no second choice for me. I buy it buy the cases. When you use the sthil ultra need to run 89 if you use 93 the oil and fuel will separate. I have 372x torque built that I use everyday 2 are 8 years old run 5 hours streight every day blocking wood on tree jobs. I can tare 1 apart for you. Have 8 445 husqvarna clamshell home owners saws that I been using to cut brush run wide open everyday thousands of cuts a day. Never I bearing failure not 1! Bearing failure usually comes from fines or operator error Chain over tightening #1!!
Bs guy doesn’t build saws
@@cajun3197 lol lol lol!
@@steppoffaith8426 yep
I've got a little ms250 that's almost 15 year's old, it has cut way over 100 loads of wood, lots of times in SC heat. All I have ever used is stihl ultra. Its never been in the shop, replaced air filter and 3or4 plugs. Mix it a little heavy, let's say gas is $3.50 per gallon, I put mabe $3.30 in jug. I also put a little gas in bottle shake it up and pour in jug.
100 loads of wood over the course of 15 years is not a lot... when i lived in southwestern new york as a kid, we would burn 25-30 cord of wood a year (we burned year round... heat the house in the winter and the in ground pool in the summer... our neighbors loved us lol)
Lucas semi synthetic at 40:1 have never had any issues with anything.
I have been running saws as a logger and firewood processor and sales. 13 yrs I have always used good quality 2stroke oil at 40 :1 never stihls shit dirt bike oil and always high octane gas highest I can get so 94 97 and have never had no issues I just got a 500i what do you recommend for that I’m using 40:1 and she seems to like it
Amsoil Saber at 40:1 yields the best oil film in the crankcase and burns the cleanest of any I've seen. I've got a few videos I made recently with Saber. One was with a ms200t and the other was a 395xp. They look damn good inside.
@@richardflagg3084 Glad to see I am not the only one who uses the saber at 40:1. I mentioned it somewhere else years ago and a bunch of dry jointed armchair warriors jumped all over me about how I am wasting my money and I should use it at 100:1. I've been super happy with it at 40:1, and the VP racing 2 cycle oil as well. The engines are always spotless inside and run great. The only engine I ever saw that didn't like it was a Stihl FS90R, it ran OK but a big sluggish. It ran just fine on the VP racing at 40:1 though. I sold that thing, got tired of it's monthly periods.
@@MattsRageFitGarage I'm not a big fan of running Saber at 80 or 100:1. I've seen long term piston skirt wear from 80:1. The tree company I work at part time used it for years like that. No failures but some wear. Saber burns really well at 40:1 and buying by the quart still saves a ton of money compared to premeasured bottles.
@@richardflagg3084 I've used it at 50:1 at the leanest, I just don't have it in me to run my equipment I paid my hard earned money for at 80:1 or 100:1.
Husqvarna did some testing in the mid 70's that was very interesting. They put 3 identical stock engines on a dyno and ran them for several days at varying RPM and load conditions. Then both motors were torn down and inspected. The engine running CASTOR based oil had the least wear, followed by the synthetic oil, and finally the engine running standard 2-cycle oil.
A second test they performed was to run synthetic in 2 identical engines and one was run at 24:1, the other was run at 50:1 The engine that ran 24:1 had less piston skirt wear, and less rod bearing wear, but had the same main roller bearing wear as the engine run at 50:1.
One small point. No one ever broke an engine by using too much oil [although it does produce more spooge].
carbon loading can absolutely kill an engine... all it has to do is find its way into the bottom end and then it will destroy bearings... that's not subjective... that's fact
Great info my man. You may want to test a different Maxima product. Castor is not ideal, but could be used in a pinch. Formula K2 however, is designed for this type of work. Any way you give us an opinion on that at say 32 -40 to 1? I truly believe it will perform well. We have been screaming at high RMP with Maxima Super M and then Formula K2 and things are always slick and clean when we check. I dirt bikes of course. I just use the same stuff in everything now. Formula K2 at 32:1 or 36:1.
I ran 50-1 of really quality oil for a long time, but after tearing into a saw on 50-1 vs 32-1 I was sold. Not to mention better lubricationwith a slightly leaner tune? Even if my plug is white, my bearings will be alright 😂
if the plug is white, you're lean... and if you're lean, your saw will eventually die... although probably not from bearing failure... more likely from piston scoring... lean means hot and hot means melting aluminum pistons. fatten up your high jet just a touch till the plug is a light tan and you should be able to run that saw for years and years
Castor based oil? Certainly not at 50:1 and shelf life of bean oil pre-mix is about a week under the best conditions.
Fouling issues occur mainly from running too rich and a hotter plug will compensate for that, in my experience.
Hmm I don't really know. Work at a state park and we run all stihl stuff on ultra with 87. Never had a issue with it. Everything usually starts and runs even after sitting over winter or longer. Kind of sold me on the Ultra for that reason. However this has me doubting it.
Rich nice explanation. Everyone should replay what you say at the end, that was confirmed to me by three independent 2stroke certified mechanics a long time ago.
I couldn't tell if the rings were seized......be that as it may, but when you have the discoloration and scoring on the exhaust side," most generally", the saw is either running on the rich side or the saw being feathered, not running at full rpm. If scoring on the intake side ," most generally" it's running lean or a cold seizure. The proper fuel/oil ratio gets funky if keep refilling your storage container before its all the way empty. Use as high as octane as you can find with no ethanol., pay attention to manufacturers stated fuel/oil ratio. Especially if unit is under warranty.
I use Stihl HP super after watching several Videos about the Stihl HP ultra. I looked at on of my chainsaw and it looks like your piston...
Since I don't know anything about engines, and this popped up in my feed, there is no crank-case oil for the bottom-side of a 2-stroke engine?
I expected to see some oil below the piston...
A 2 stroke engine gets its lubrication from the oil mixed into the fuel (gasoline). This is the ONLY source of lubrication for the crank bearings, connecting rod, wrist pin needle bearings, and piston rings; and thus extremely important to “get it right” if you care about the longevity and duration of your 2 stroke machines. A 4 stroke engine has mechanical valves, and lubricating oil that resides in the lower crankcase. This oil is NOT mixed with the fuel, and should be changed at specified maintenance intervals.
@@mateobrainardo4770 Thanks for the info, as my minimal engine exposure is mostly motorcycles when I was a kid, with lower a gear box full of gear oil.
Hey Richard What is the best waY TO BREAK IN A Stihl chainsaw?
Run it like you stole it. (With FD rated oil at 40:1 of course)
@@richardflagg3084 Thank You
Realy?!I use stihl hp oil many years never had problem
I bought 6 bottles pack of Stihl Ultra oil. After much research, I return it for 6 packs of EchoBlend Gold. Hopefully they are better. Did my first 40:1 mix on my new G366
Nice!
I am very careful not to mix too much gas with the oil on a 2.5 gal mix I usually stop pump at 2.4 gal. Im wondeering if that is good enough. So far have no issues but not a lot of time on saw eather.
What oil do you use?
I have several stihl’s and they have all been ran on ultra. Although I mix it closer to 40:1, I am looking for a different oil to use because I hate the carbon buildup. 50:1 seems scary to me cause in my dirt bike days it was 32:1.
After reading lots of stuff and looking at my own equipment I settled on 42.5:1. In my opinion running modern engines at 32:1 is a bit too much oil and 50:1 just isn’t enough. I never ran Stihl Ultra and have always stayed with the plain old Stihl HP. I buy HP by the 4 gallon case.
40:1 with the original orange bottle is fine. There are some others that do well like Saber, Red Armor. Run what you like just do a little reading and shoot for an FD rated oil.
Hey Richard, that’s what I like bout you, keeping it real! I recently pulled the muffler off my 16 year old Husky 345, as it and my elbow got hit by a shifting log whilst I was clearing out storm damage. Long story…Anyhoo, I was pleasantly surprised to find the side of the piston looking like it just came out of the factory in Sweden! I’ve almost always used Husqvarna oil, and High Octane NON E gas, whenever I could get it. Station 15 minutes or so from my House has been selling 91 Non E gas for awhile now. I use Pre mix on occasion, and when putting the saw up for awhile. And yes, almost always somewhere around 40:1, or mainly 45:1.
I recently had a Stihl Dealer Tech tell me that I should run 50:1 in my new 180. He explained that the extra gas allowed for better cooling? I will tell you Richard, that Stihl Ultra the dealer sold me (warranty extension) sure smokes a lot, and it smells ! 🥴 Out of curiosity, I used the mix for the Husky, in the 180, and it ran and smelled better! 😆 I dont think I will use the Ultra, based upon a few of your videos, although I paid for it. I’m not concerned about the extra warranty. Keep em coming! Stay well! 👍✌
Just because Stihl will double your warranty based on an oil purchase doesn't mean you have to run it...... I'm a simple man. More lubrication means less friction. I don't need to throw out $20 words to make my point. It does help to tear a saw down live and report the findings........
@@richardflagg3084 Thanks for reply. Oh, I know about the warranty thing; I know the Stihl Dealer, and they will take care of me no matter what, or so I hope! BTW, You’re a beast on a tear down Sir, gotta tell ya! 😊👊
@@georgedavall9449 Thanks!
So what kind of 2 stroke oil should you use? Did I miss something?
Look for an oil that has the JASO "FD" rating. (Ultra is FB rated) FD rated oils have a much better detergent package and will keep the carbon build up to a minimum without sacrificing lubrication. The most readily available ones are: Saber, Husqvarna XP+, and All of the Echo oils.
@@richardflagg3084 Where are you located? I just bought a Stihl ms290 and I want to do some "upgrades"
What oil manufacturers oil would you recommend at say 40 to 1 ? I mix mine at less than 1 gallon with the Stihl synthetic ?
Have a look at the video I made this week. There is a lot of information there in regards to choosing a two stroke oil.
Do a follow up video of the bearing replacement Richard. Greatly appreciate your time and service.
Definitely
Is STIHL Ultra good as an expensive weed killer? .I sure didn't like it when I ran it in my vintage saws. So far the Red Armor seems to be doing an excellent job in my vintage clunkers.
Nope. It's biodegradable and less toxic..........
Just got a Stihl 261c chainsaw and love it. If I shouldn't use Stihl ultra oil. Then what should I use? Thanks
Most FD rated oils will do well. Amsoil Saber, Red Armor, Husqvarna XP+, Echo Power Blend Gold to name a few. Do a little research and you'll see, Ultra is an FB rated oil and just doesn't have the detergent package to suit the Ester base. The motorcycle shops carry some of the best oils on the market, if you have one near you. There's a lot more at stake with a $7000 dirt bike than a garden tool. The world is your oyster
I run Stihl ultra 50:1 in chainsaws, strimmers, blower, hedge trimmer. 4 years and no problems yet. Low smoke and plenty of power from machines
Same here.
Been running my race outboard, jetski, all my power equipment and dirtbike all at 50:1 and never once had an issue. Lots of oils will let you run 100:1 (i dont). I would bet my bottom dollar 50:1 will never cause an issue and no need for 94 or av gas or anything wild. Non ethanol 89 mixed 50:1 will give you years of good performance
Exactly. A great 2T oil will shine at 50:1. This one doesn't.
Would it hurt to mix oils? Say a guy has a bunch of stihl ultra put back, would mixing a bottle of ultra and a bottle of belray to make 2 gallon cause funky stuff?
Should be ok. You might add a little Seafoam to the ultra mix and let it ride
A 40:1 mix is not going to stop the bearing from being trashed if the computer in those saws allow it to turn 14,500. I traded off that 261 because I knew what was going to happen, sooner or later. I checked my new ms 170 a few weeks ago and it was turning 14,500, but I richened up the carb to 13,050 and will richen it up a little more. My limit is 12,600-12,800 for any saw, regardless of who makes it.
Concerning the 261, not even a 1:1 mix would save a saw that can turn 14,500. That is why you have to be able to limit WFO by some means. That is also why I do not like or buy any saw that cannot be limited by turning out the H jet. Stihl also sells a 261 with an adjustable carb but they want more for it than the 261 C-M.
Why rev the piss out of the saw when it has no load on it. I am sure it does not get to 14,500 in a cut. At least it should not if operated properly and the chain is not dull.
@@perry9492 that’s just how it is done.
You're NOT wrong dude.
A lot of owners will blame a tuning failure on oil as well. No point in running on the razors edge.
@@mattfleming86 everybody wants to blame failures on one thing or another. Anything but them selves. As a gunsmith for thirty years I learned failures were 95% due to the owners failure to clean and lubricate, properly, their firearms. In other words -operator failure. Saws are no different. If you feed them good food and maintain them properly, they will not let you down. I see folks on Utube that brag they left a saw out in the snow or rain for several days as a justification why it was so hard to start. Mine are in my shop or inside the house. I think more of them than leaving them out in the elements. Enuff said.
The MS 261 and the MS 261-c-m are exactly the same dealer cost.
Man I'm really enjoying your videos and thanks for the sound advice.. I'm considering going 40:1 now after watching your videos. It's true what you say it's only a tiny bit more oil in the whole gallon. Is there any negatives at all going 40:1? Will you lose some performance etc? I'm sold anyway if it can only lengthen the life of my saw..
The Spark Plug fouls a little faster is about the only negative. So assuming you don't mind that your equipment will last much longer.
What kind of oil do you use or recommend??? Thanks be safe frosty and free buddy
Hi, to be fair the saw is fitted standard with a 16” bar and 325 chain, when larger bars are fit to small saws which weren’t designed to have large bars the saw can’t rev and breath which means it can’t get fuel/oil.
Small saws are designed to rev, if you need to run a big bar buy a big saw, don’t blame the oil or the saw
Don't fall for the Kool Aid. That's why I take the time to do these vids. You shouldn't have to split hairs to "make" your oil perform well. Great oil will perform well regardless of conditions. Ultra is not one of those. The the party line is... "Your not running it right" That's just silly to be honest.
If that saw was run with the factory bar and the fuel oil ratio that was recommended by the manufacturer who I would assume they know what there saws need, the saws will last for a long time, once again the oil should not be blamed, the saw which you showing in the video was running a bar well outside the recommendation of the manufacturer.
Take the tires off your car and put ones on double the size, it doesn’t work.
im running lots of different 2 stroke gears(weedtrimmer,blower,hedgetrimmer etc) with my lawn mowing business and i dont have much oil choices here but stihl oil, so should i do 40:1 to all my gears with Stihl Ultra oil? thanks
stick to the orange bottle if you're stuff isn't turning a lot of RPM. The orange bottle is a conventional oil and the gray bottle is a castor blend. castor oil tends to not burn off completely at lower RPM which leads to excessive carbon build up. if it makes its way down the transfers and into the bottom end, it will inevitably eat the bearings
You sure they weren’t running trufuel?
Lol! They ran Ultra for sure before this vid and switched after.
Have you had any problems with ultra 50:1 on the 4mix engines?
The 4 mix units don’t carbon up as bad. They have a slightly higher operating temp. Remove the valve cover and inspect for discoloration and deposits. It’s a good indication how it’s running. I’d look into a higher grade oil, FD is the highest rating out as of now. The Ultra is FB rated.
I like to run extra oil and maybe some Marvel Mystery oil in my mix. No issues at all.
I've tried 40:1 and the machine won't run unless I stay on the throttle. The piston and cylinder looked fine.
I'd suggest to bump the idle speed up and if that doesn't help, have it serviced. A Tbsp of oil per gallon shouldn't make a difference.
I had a 261 that burned out in about 1 year. Scored piston. I was using 40:1, but stihl tried to call me stooopid saying it ran unmixed gas saying it ran lean overheated blah blah. I took care of the saw and everything else was fine. They couldn’t find what else to blame.
I don’t think it’s the gas mix but simply I just overused the saw…despite being pro rated, I don’t think it’s a real pro saw. I got it with expectations it was something you could run all day, which I did for a project for some time then it was ran intermittently…then one larger tree project it just didn’t start. I took care of it including ethanol free 89 gas 40:1 mix…stihl failed.
So far this has been my overall experience with stihl chainsaws…good specs, design, ergonomics, but poor reliability. Pro saw or not they all crap out if you use them enough. Expect 2-3 out of a saw. Got a 462 to later find out the earlier version had a piston design problem and was redesigned (i have newer versions). Owners of older versions own a timebomb that when blows up stihl says the owner is to blame. If this 462 fails in a few years, I will never buy another stihl product.
I'm curious if you've seen lubrication issues using 50:1 pond water in Stihl's "4 Mix" equipment? I've been running a KM 131 for a couple years using the HP Ultra that the shop forced me to buy for the warranty. Just did a valve adjustment a couple months ago and the top of the piston still looks shiny and new through the plug hole. Wondering if these 4 mix engines might be designed to work with the stihl oil chemistry better than the traditional 2 strokes do, or should I run out and mix up some Red Armour? I've also got a BR 800... love the tools, they run perfect and want to keep them tip top. Would love to hear your thoughts. Have you seen a lot of 4 mix units in the shop for the same reasons? Thanks for the videos, great channel.
Yes, the 4 mix units run slightly higher operating temps and the carbon is less of an issue. Next time you have the valve cover off inspect for deposits. When you decide to change, the Red Armor would be a great choice.
@@richardflagg3084 Roger that. Thank you, sir.
Red Armor at 40:1 has been great fuel for the saws and weed trimmers.
Is stihl ultra in the blue bottle? What oil do you suggest. Did not see oil bottle in video.
Silver bottle.
Just curious, have you tried Lucas semi synthetic? I bought a bottle a while ago and still haven’t tried it, been using vp 50:1 premix fuel but need to start mixing my own, are there oils you’d recommend for running at 50:1?
I'd stick with the VP. You can save a few bucks buying it in the 16oz bottle for $10 vs $4 for the 2.6oz premeasured. That's current pricing at Tractor Supply. It even has a measuring cup built into the bottle.
Love the channel would you run Amsoil Saber at 40:1?
Thank you! Yes. It still burns clean at 40:1.
Bar oil
I like motul factory race on road 40:1 stock saws and 32:1 for ported
Kind of reminds me of my ms 251 last spring. That POS about took my arm off. I finally poured out the Red Armor and replaced it with Moto Mix and it cranked right up after it bitched for a few pulls. The Red Armor had only been in it for seven months, but it was supposed to be stabilized for two years. It is not. It is a great lubricant but stabilized it is not.
Here's my two cents on what's going on here. The company I work for runs stihl Ultra exclusively at 50:1, and the only issue we've had engine wise has been with our MS261s (which seems to be the saw you are featuring here and in other videos). That tells me it's probably not the oil, but rather something with that particular saw. I can tell you that both of our 261s were heading in that direction piston wise until I was able to remove the limiters on the carb and properly tune them. They were both set way too lean from the factory and the limiters prevented proper adjustment.
I respect the amount of experience you have working on saws, but I just think you've gotten this one wrong and are blaming the wrong variable here.
Pull the mufflers and prove me wrong. If I could stress anything it would be to use a more modern two stroke oil. Ultra has an JASO FB rating. It says so right on the back of the bottle. Look for an FD rated oil. You won't sacrifice lubrication and you'll gain the detergent package to keep the carbon build up to a minimum. Have a look at the video I made titled What oil should you run.
It explains the rating system and what common oils carry the top tier rating. Thanks, Rich
@@richardflagg3084 crickets so far!!🧐🧐🧐🧐
@@richardflagg3084 he is trying to find his T27. 😎😎
Iv been using the husky oil but recently swapped to ams oil sabre what ratio do you recommend mate cheers 🍻
Both are very good oils that I have tested. Saber may do just fine at 50:1. The HP+ I’d do 40:1
@@richardflagg3084 thankyou for the reply mate
@@lukereynolds9907 No worries! Thank you
I use klotz two cycle oil and I mix at 32:1
Damn
That should be wet down there
I use the orange bottle at appx 45-1
All the saws I’ve broken down on the mix I run happen to be wet in the crank
Yup.
What do you think of Lucas semi synthetic
I don't have and first hand experience with Lucas. Nest round of oil test I'll include it.
40:1 with Motul Ester, 32:1 if im feelin froggy. im not happy unless i see some smoke
What do you recommend I use 40-1 ?
Red Armor, dominator, Husqvarna XP+, Saber are some good oils
Thank you Sir!
I've been running VP 50:1 for years with out issues. Now after all the reading and videos like this... . .
Im adding 3oz of good oil to my 5 gallon of VP 50:1.
I wish I could find 40:1 or even 32:1 VP Locally.
Im a believer - 40:1 at a minium.
Thanks for sharing!
OK. You asked to chime in on my Real world experience......
10:20
I believe that you & I are about the same age
Based on my knowledge, it was not the Stihl Ultra.
Option #1 -A piece of metal or hard rigid plastic flake fell into the fuel tank.
Plastic & metal gas cans consistently shred on most refills.
Option #2 - Also on the Sthil saw, the opening of the fuel tank is badly designed.
Unfortunately, the opening recesses in.
Which is a vacuum to draw in the shavings & dirt that is laying on the dirty saw.
Option # 3 - The dirt & crud that is hanging from the bottom of the gas can can fall in.
Option # 4 - The saw operator is usually always covered with saw shavings.
Option # 5 - The saw operator usually always has dirt on our knees.
Option # 6 - The saw operator often allows the saw to run out of gas, too many times.
At high speed, It only takes one second, lack of oil to do damage.
I hope I am able to teach you some information.
You & I can not know everything.
I will continue to buy most all brands of oil ( including Stihl Ultra).
I did what you asked me to do.
You are welcomed.
.
i use sthil hp ultra 25ml 1 liter of gas.
i have no problem with this mix.
i use gas with 95.
There are some Things we don‘t know about that Saw. Was ist blown with a dull chains at to high rpm. To tight chain and the Runtime of it.
All these new selfadjusting Saws run very lean and high on rpm. Like Donny Walker says, keep your Chains sharp, don‘t overrev it. Oil is never bad.
Saws gettin lighter , Bearings gettin smaller . Saws gettin stronger , rpm goes higher. Stronger engine , less Lifetime. No replacement for Displacement!
Those variables will be covered in the follow up video. I'll plug the saw in and you can see the hours, carb settings and operating temp. The lack of oil film in the crankcase is a major factor.
Real world, the saw in my videos has ran Bel Ray H1R 50:1 since new it will be three years old in march. Has well over a million board feet under its belt. Still runs like new. 50:1 is not a problem if you run a superior oil. That’s how I see it anyway. With that said, Stihl and husky oils are garbage. Especially at 50:1.
Did you say ultra is caster based?
I misspoke. I checked the MSDS sheet and it's ester based full synthetic oil. Good for you (less toxic fumes) and biodegradable (good for the environment). It has a very high flash point and if not run “right” will leave excessive carbon. There are plenty of more “forgiving “ oils out there to use, ester based or not.
@@richardflagg3084 Explain more forgiving please.
@@rivtool515 The detergent package in JASO FD rated oils still provides excellent lubrication, but burns cleaner under a broader range of operation. So if you don't "run it right" you don't have the unusual coking/carbon build up. Stihl Ultra is a JASO FB rated oil which classifies it as a low smoke oil, according to JASO.
I usually put in 2 gallons of gas in for the 2.5gallon bottle of ultra. This is 40:1 I believe.
That is correct.
I run 50:1 in all of my 2 strokes. My blowers, saws (i run a lot of saws), even the weed eater at home. BUT...I use race gas. And penzoil 2 stroke oil. OH! I run 50:1 in my outboard too, with 89 non ethanol. No problems ever.
Hey, can I use husqvarna xp in a new stihl chainsaw M-tronic, and if, what ratio is best?
Yes, you can. I prefer 40:1. 3.2oz per gallon
Nice job god bless
I've learned you shouldn't go over 40:1 and no less than 20:1 ratio.30:1 is the best ratio for pretty much any gasoline engine.A good balance between both oil and gasoline.
When you guys say av gas are u meaning like 94 octane because av gas is thick like diesel
Ouch! I like to try different oils from time to time but haven't ran hp ultra other than what's in motomix plus a little extra to bump it up to 40-44:1 I definitely don't trust 50:1. oil and plugs are cheaper than bearings and cranks! Since watching Aaron A Lynch's g372 teardown I've been running maxima castor 927 at 32:1🤪 so far, it not only seems clean but is cleaning the piston crown in my husqvarna handheld blower😃 by the transfers are actually shiny!
Yeah but Maxima won't double ur warranty..........
@@richardflagg3084 with stihl wool over your eyes, this is true🙄😅
I run 50:1 in everything!!! Learn to tune it helps. Stink ultra burns clean too
25:1 won’t foul plugs either. I ran 3 gallons of RA and 2 gallons of Dominator at this ratio in several saws as a cleaning test to see if a fatter ratio cleans up carbon better. Long story short, a quality fuel system cleaner works waaaayyyy faster.
In my experience people say they never use old or inaccurately measured fuel, but they frequently get it wrong. We all make mistakes. Most all mechanics will tell you most seized 2 stroke equipment is down to bad or poorly mixed fuel. Stihl know how to build saw and I think Castrol know how to make oil. Stihl is not going to promote an oil that that is going to shorten the life of their saws.
😅😅😅 “On todays episode of why Stihl Ultra sucks…” That’s classic Richard!!!
I still use ultra at 50:1 and have been since it came out. When I get a chance I'll tear down my 261. I've bought it new and only used ultra so I'll get back with you. 🍻
I know this is killing you. This is just another example of needing a more forgiving oil if you don't run it "right". Thanks for all your feedback and support. I look forward to hearing how your 261 looks inside.
@@richardflagg3084 🤣 killing me! You have no idea! But on a serious note, you have got my curiosity going since my 261 has only had ultra in it. But I tune all my saws to STIHL's settings. And run them full throttle. It may be a few weeks as we're just getting into snowmobile race sleds.😁
32:1 I don't care what anyone says.
I raced two stroke MX dirt bike s built hundreds of Outboard motor s bikes and saws.
Synthetic oil best .
Air-cooled saws screaming full of sawdust clogged fins prone to melting .
Concrete saws I always run extra oil even.
Do a video on some of the best looking saws and what oil they use and what ratio
0:15
"That's what she said".
.
Make sure to cover up that gas so you aren’t just huffing in that shop.