I agree, Richard.I do not use Ultra, anymore, but I have never thought 40:1 was any better than 50:1. I have friends on UTube that run 32:1 in all their two cycle equipment. I tell them I do not run molasses in my saws. I only run JASO FD oil and have settled on three, but I like one of them better. The three oils are Husqvarna XP, Echo Power Blend Gold and Echo Red Armor. My favorite is Red Armor at 50:1 with an added stabilizer. I run nothing but Premium, non ethanol gas. Stihl Ultra is a JASO FB certified oil, so it is a twenty year old two cycle oil. Stihl does not market a FD certified oil in the US. Ultra is the filthiest oil on the market. I have never had a failure running Ultra but I have had to burn out mufflers and spark arrestors at a very high rate running Ultra. Ultra just has to much ash content in it.
Do yourself a favor, go read from the Jaso site what separates the FA - FD then read the requirements to become certified. You will find, in JASOs own words that they DO NOT verify any oil blenders claims. It's all on the honor system and is nothing more than a pay to play scheme. I have the document here put not sure a picture can be posted in a UA-cam comment. Another thing to remember, even if an oil actually meets the JASO standard, its a minimum standard that can and is surpassed. I've been doing oil testing till engine failure for several years. FD means nothing to me now when I see how poorly many FD rated oils have done.
40:1 has a better oil film than 50:1. 50:1 doesn't quite lube the wristpin as well as 40:1. I have run both in my saw, I noticed 40:1 ran cooler when re-tuned.
You've been making a compelling case that Stihl oil is junk. Funny thing you're not the only one coming up with that conclusion. Thanks for the content.
I’ve been running Stihl Ultra for about 3yrs with non-ethanol gas. It was the packs I bought with equipment to extend the warranties. After seeing these videos & others. I chunked what I had left in the trash. I bought Echo Red Armor that I’m going to run at 40:1 for a year to clean all my engines. Then I’ll switch to AMSOIL Sabre at probably 60:1. I did buy a bottle of Redline All Sports to try later on too.
Hi Richard, I'm in Australia and Just watching the comments, it seems no-one is commenting on the bigger issue here which is the lack of non existent amount of oil film on the big end rod and case bearings. I have used the HP ultra for years at 32:1, but I have now switched to Motul 800 2t after seeing your pull down test videos with ultra and other oils...great review Richard.
Good videos you got. I had some stihl ultra as well, I was gonna try but not after watching your videos on it for my saws, but however I just recently mixed my outboard tank at 42-1 so can get rid of what I have. Not sure if good idea or not but figured a outboard runs cooler as its water cooled. Lol! So if you think is bad idea don't be afraid to reply back your thoughts.
My dad told me 16:1 was the norm when chainsaws first became popular, I use 25:1 in 95 or 98 octane depending on availability non ethanol fuel in all my 2 strokes including motorcycles and have done for 45 years with no issues, never burnt a piston out, I have rebuilt many saws that had been running 50:1 and not old saws either. I just rebuilt my 084 as it had done a crank seal, the piston and bore were fine but I put a new piston and bearings in it as the saw had done a lot of work. The only thing I ever had a problem running 25:1 was a small Husqvarna whippersnipper, oil started dripping from the muffler.
Richard, thank you for bringing attention to this issue with the Stihl HP Ultra oil. I would like to ask which oil you recommend and at what mix ratio for weed eater, chain saw, and backpack blowers? As a community, the more light we shine on this issue the more necessary it will be for Stihl to address the problem. There are some very smart people on UA-cam that could potentially science the hell out of this topic to find out exactly why the HP Ultra is performing this way. Hopefully it will happen and hopefully they'll share the results with everyone, including Stihl. As a user of HP Ultra I'm not even sure what to do with it anymore. Thanks again, from a new subscriber.
Just look for a Jaso FD rated oil. Any of the Echo oils meet that criteria. Husqvarna XP+ or Saber by Amsoil. Honestly Saber burns cleaner at 40:1 than any oil I've ever seen and leaves a great oil film at that ratio. I feel running it at 80:1 is a bit skinny.
Never have run Stihl Ultra, just some of the orange bottle. But what I do run in my vintage/antique Lawn-Boys, chainsaw, trimmers, and leaf blower is either Echo Red Armor or Amsoil Saber mixed at 40:1 in ethanol free rec fuel. One can of fuel for everything.
Although I'm still leery of running 40:1 in it, I switched my r7070 Lawn-Boy to Red Armor at the end of this past season. After less than one tankfull of fuel, I already noticed it running smoother than it did on 32:1 Lawn-Boy oil. I was running 25:1 in it at the time. I have since dumped the last of my Moto-mix into my truck to burn it up (three quarts in a 35 gallon tank). Next year I'm going to Red Armor across the board in my Stihl trimmer and blower, Husqvarna chainsaw, and Lawn-Boy mower. I'm already using 91 octane non-ethanol gas in ALL my engines.
@@leehuff2330 I have a 1975 5024 Bricktop, a 1978 5277, and a 1987 5254. I run the same 40:1 mix in all three. I pulled the mufflers off the check the exhaust ports, and there was a good film of oil on the piston and rings. When I rebuilt the carb on my Bricktop, the crank was covered in a nice film of oil too. Gotta love working on the D400/600 engines. Easy as pie.
I just ran the regular orange bottle Stihl oil, without any issues, though I never tore them down to check. But I did see a UA-cam video that showed that higher amount of oil in the gas seemed to make the saw run much hotter in general. So I plan to stick to 50 to 1 on any saw I get. I think back with the older saws they didn't have good specific chainsaw oil and used motor oils. So more oil was needed because it broke down too much in gas. But I'm open to trying a different brand of oil that has a good reputation in the future. I just haven't decided which one I might try. Thanks for the heads up. I almost bought some ultra, but I stuck to the stuff I used without issues before.
Amsoil Saber, Husqvarna XP+ or any of the Echo oils. Look for the FD rating on the side of the bottle. They all maintain superior lubricity but contain a top tier detergent package unlike Ultra. I have done several videos on the subject that better explain the why and why nots.
The motomix cleaning test is misleading if they specifically claimed it's the oil responsible for it. It's actually the gas they use, alkylated gas specifically (Aspen, VP, Trufuel etc all use the same type of gas, more or less). It's pure paraffins, no benzene or other long chain hydrocarbon "impurities" that don't burn that well and create deposits. So the reason why that gas cleans the combustion chamber so well is because it doesn't create new deposits, and the already existing ones burn up.
I really see the muffler cooking up on all the exhaust side like especially the farmboss ms271 they're returning them with cooked pistons jammed up. I have seen them like this but I believe that the muffler is way too restricted the engine needs to release the heat more efficiently. This is what I observed only but I really do agree with you on the oil. I use AMSOIL
I am one of the few that after warmup WOT or full tilt buggie on the hushy 555, I have some bad slopes where machines do not get, 5ft tall grass falls like it is nobody's business. That is some nasty exhaust port cooking, I have never seen that on any of my saws, even with the 1990's husky mineral oil. Rich another good video!
261 is doing it also but I am running Lucas Oil and I have ran Lucas Oil for years I never seen a piston this bad so I don't know what's causing this issue and my are still are not doing this so what is the issue
I have a theory. To meet the EPA and other requirements placed on their products, Stihl may have the M-tronic code holding the engine consistently as lean as possible, with some small safety margin. This consistent lean state, if true, might help explain your popcorn fart, almost dry bearing and crank surfaces. Just the thought makes me happy I just bought a non C-M 261. What do you think about this theory? Your test kit may be able to prove or disprove a potential cause. These saws can't stay dry for long.
I would agree with you! I have older saws and new ones all on HP ultra and good 95 octane and 35-40:1 the older saws definitely have more oil residue inside then the new stuff! I would think fuel quality would play a big roll in how well oil burns too.
The Ultra oil would be constant. The fuel would be a variable. The 40:1 mix would actually be leaner with that oil because it does not burn like the Schaeffers petro oil does. Petroleum base oils burn and contribute to the total BTUs. Some of the synthetic oils like H1R for example do not contribute to the total BTU burn either. One of the big reasons Stihl is running Ultra at 50:1 so the BTU total is not changed to much by the oil, and the discharge does not effect the EPA numbers so much. When you go to Schaeffers at 40:1 you actually richen your total BTU total, and cool the motor better with more BTUs, and more cooling oil.
Said my peace on it!! Totally different experience. I go through gallons a year!! Run it at 50:1 89 oct. Keep saws blowed out never caked up like that, sharp and working. Your experience with it is neglected saws, home owner, and not used the recommended way. I own 4 sthil saws 500is and ms660 but I own 45 husqvarna saws. So it's not brand loyalty to me its works great for how I run my saws! Pick oil to your style of running and Performance of saw. I ran dolmars for years and used only Amsoil. Stock 7900 is 180pst where stock 372xp torque 135 psi.
I don't work on homeowner saws. Only commercial. Different companies, same results. Especially with the 261's. I see the 201's with the same issue. The larger saws seem to tolerate it better. I've said it a bunch, there are more "forgiving" oils out there. Ultra is JASO rated FB, two tiers below the current standard of FD. Run whatcha like. You'll have to admit there is an issue given the repeatability of this "condition".
@@richardflagg3084 I tore my 2 year old 395xp , 7 year old 372 x torque, and a 7 year old 445 today where they came off trailer this morning and busted tank handles etc just to see. I can pull mufflers of 40 saws tomorrow. The difference maybe is I run 50:1 it blow the carbon right out the exhaust I guess lol no gum up no cakeing. I don't know lol lol. Maybe it's how I run them maybe it's where I keep them tuned at ALL TIMES just crazy night and day differences. I make 1000 cuts a day literally! I have ran other oils. I just really like how it dosent gum.up the rings and never 1 bearing failure not 1! On 372 x torque the bearing failure prone saws!! I have 8 372 x torques not 1 but 8 that I run every single day. I have 585xps not checked 1 of them yet but I will tomorrow 1 has 50 tanks or so through it. I see what you have in your videos and it's UGLY LOL.
@@richardflagg3084My bad I thought in video you said you work for dealer? When showing husky diagnostic. I build new saws for 2 commercial tree companies Kendall,and Sealback hear in middle TN.
@@steppoffaith8426 I do work at a Husqvarna dealer two days a week. Just to be clear. That gives me access to the Common Service Tool. I rarely use it. I also have the Stihl MDG1 kit as well. Spendy but the saws are not going to get less complicated. They both come in handy every once in a while.
@@richardflagg3084 I agree. I’m just a “dumb” homeowner. But I have a 462 and a 261 that I’ve been running for years. I process 5-7 cords of wood a year. My first thought of seeing these saws is they physically look horrid. They look to be never cleaned or maintained. I take pride in my saws, clean them after every use, unless I am planning on using it again within the next week or so. Keep the air filter clean. And from day 1 I remove the spark arrestor and throw that baby away. (Let it breathe.) Something people need to realize, especially on a M Tronic unit, but also a standard carbed unit. If you get a crack in the rubber air intake boot, the saw will run lean, even on M Tronic, because this is after the sensing. If your saw runs lean for a short period of time it will “cook” it, overheat and fail. To me these saws look cooked and poorly maintained. I’ve been running ultra in everything for years 50:1 and have never seen an issue. The piston looks great, looking when removing the muffler. I let my saw warm up before going WOT. And just take good care of my shit.
I wish I lived near you (I live in Spain) so I could bring you the Stihl FS-260 brushcutter we have at home. I say this because from the first moment we bought it, we also bought the HP Ultra oil and we have always been using it at 50:1, and today we have almost finished the 1 litre bottle, there will be about 1 cm left. What a mess of an oil with one of the lowest JASO categories. I think this is the fourth video I've seen from your channel related to this oil. I'm going to throw the rest of the bottle straight into the trash, and I'm going to put some cleaning additive in it for a while. Thank you very much for your time spent on all this stuff.
A JASO FD rated oil should do fine cleaning up the residue. Do you have Echo 2 stroke oil available in Spain? Every oil they sell here in the US is FD rated. It's just a suggestion as I don't know what oils are available to you.
@@richardflagg3084 Well, this afternoon I cleaned the brushcutter, and I also dismantled the exhaust pipe... Catastrophic the pile of carbon that was in the cylinder outlet. Part of the problem I think is also that the brushcutter (almost always used by my father) is not used at the highest rpm, so the oil does not burn properly either, and knowing that it is a FB oil the diagnosis is clear (the oil has always been used at 50:1). The Echo oil is sold here in Spain and is FD certified, I had also thought of using the MOTUL 800 2T Factory Line OFF ROAD oil.
@@robertomcatZX10 Once you switch to a better oil, running part throttle most of the time won't be as much of a problem, It will help to get the unit up to full operating temperature on occasion. The motul is a great oil but still has a flash point of 250C. The Echo oils are around 100C and may be more forgiving at lower operating temps.
@@richardflagg3084 Thank you very much for all your answers. In the Echo oil I have seen that the flash point is 78 °C but that value is under the ASTM D 93 standard, on the other hand the Motul and Stihl HP Ultra use the ASTM D 92 standard and I don't know how to translate between one standard and the other, because I see that there is a lot of difference in the flash points.
@@robertomcatZX10 I'm not a chemical engineer. I've learned a lot over the last year from these videos. There are multiple reports published on these oils and it can be confusing. That being said, choosing a better oil with a better detergent package is the best place to start. Thank you, I've enjoyed the conversation today.
Do you think it is bottles not full enough? And the mix being lite?. I know my cylinders s have never looked like that with the silver or orange. But most of mine was orange. But I haven't had a spark arrestor in it for years
the bottles are usually overfilled by a little bit. This oil doesn't meet the newer standards of two stroke oils. JASO FD rated is what you want to look for. This oil is FB rated, just look on the bottle.
Just bought a brand new ms 462, and to get the extended warranty I bought the Ultra oil. Now I have watched several videos, all of them saying not to use the ultra oil, I've spent 1400$ on that saw, will someone please tell me the best oil to use
I have the same question. From what I have read in the comments here, Amsoil Sabre and Schaefer 7000. I have read elsewhere that Redline racing oil is good, but crazy expensive.
@@richardflagg3084 I have found that HP Super is JASO FD certified oil, an Ultra is only FB...hmm Can you tell what fuel did you use in mixing ultra? Octane? Ethanol?
@@gravityloose Ultra IS FB rated. I don't think the fuel is going to help the end result. Again, there are more "forgiving: oils out there. Sounds like you have a winner
@@richardflagg3084 If i have mix 50:1 mixed about 2 weeks ago and want to go 40:1, can I add oil to this mix to a achieve 40:1? Or I have to mix a fresh one..?
I never ran my Ryobi weed-eater particularly hard. (Circa 1993-5) Have always used *Bike* oils, though - MC1+ @ 32 to 1 in the Ryobi, “to simplify mixing of small volumes” - and both screws turned out a fair bit from the stock “too lean by a mile” - smooth idle with good pickup on the Low, on the verge of blubbering under load on the High. That particular oil is no longer sold. Have Maxima K2 for the Zenoah “Generator engine.” Will be running ~ 28 to 1 on that, either canned fuel or non-ethanol. It’s not likely to be run much.
You've got me sold because I'm seeing very similar results in my own saws, weedeaters, and blowers when i pull the mufflers off and check the pistons and I've been running 40:1 since the beginning. Which oil do you run? I've bought redmax, lucas, the other stihl and also husqvarna. Been thinking about trying Schaeffer because their grease is awesome and has made a believer outta me on heavy equipment. Btw i never did find your email on the channel anywhere.
I run Schaeffers 7000. It is a boat oil but does surprisingly well in chainsaws too. Dominator is a fine oil as well. Run whatcha like. Trust but verify.
Been using schaeffers 7000 semi synthetic 40:1, and if I don't have that it's lucas land and sea semi synthetic, and fir the last few months as a test I've been using vp 40:1 in the gallon can and its just as good
Hi Richard here is a something about stihl ultra it is made out of complex esters and esters is very hard to burn plus the ultra oil has a flashpoint of 435 and a viscosity index of 154 The reason that it is coking on the front of the piston which is on the exhaust side it is what I call half burnt Esther oil it we’ll do that if the oil has no complete additive package
Hi Richard I would like to comment about Amsoil dominator flashpoint is 201 and the viscosity index is 166 the flashpoint is a little low that don’t mean it actually burns at 201 it is Easter based oil but it has A light Weight mineral oil in it to thin it down and the additive package that is in that we will pick up the viscosity index note whatever oil anybody chooses to run make sure it is 120 viscosity index and above and the odor of The oil will have a ammonia smell to it that is the detergents and cleaners here is some oil that smells ammonia smelling Amsoil saber Amsoil dominator Schaeffers 7000 Schaeffers 9000 Bel Ray H1 r these oils have a high viscosity index which is good for high and extreme RPMs and heat
I call it coking too when i worked in a machine shop while I was going to trade school my old boss taught me that term when diesel heads and rings were all caked with carbon. His explanation was improper combustion from too much idle time or not getting up to temperature/poor fuel quality. Not sure how that transfers over 🤷🏽♂️
This guy has posted video after video about Stihl Ultra. I use Stihl’s orange-container oil. I have 12 pieces of Stihl equipment, several of which are 25 years old, to maintain a 40-acre estate. Not one has ever needed a piston or cylinder, and I have have run 50:1 orange Stihl since the outset.
You owe me a beer lol!! I live in a rural area and trim ditches as my side-hustle. I run my Stihl 94R wide open for 8+ hours a day 3 days a week. The grass is taller then me in a lot of cases. It's internal chambers, piston, and exhaust port is still 'shiny damp' using Amsoil Saber with their Quickshot added to it also. Never buy oil from a company that doesn't make oil. Stihl makes engines, They're not an oil company.
@@richardflagg3084 I make $17/h at my day job, $60/h cutting brush and my phone is ringing off the hook. I'm 52 and wish I had of started this when I was 20.
@@BaberJacks They do. They're the only ones I know of that tell you who's oil you're really buying. That said, I think Castrol gives them their bottom of the barrel stuff. Chainsaw mechanics on here dislike it.
Thoroughly enjoy your videos Richard. I heard from several other sources that the US made ultra and the german made have differences I don't know how true that is. Have you anyone running saws outside the US running the European version of ultra with any problems? Could a lot of that blackening on the piston be from the gas rather than the oil? Cheers Richard keep these informative videos coming 👍🏻
@@richardflagg3084hp ultra for Europe is manufactured by Castrol. I live in Russia. There is a brush cutter fs 561 and fs 491. unleaded gasoline with an octane rating of 92 and Stihl hp ultra in a ratio of 50 to 1 as recommended by Stihl disabled the piston. For 190 hours of work at full throttle, a deposit was formed as if the spit had worked for 5 years and produced 3 tons of fuel. As a result , carbon deposits ripped through the cylinder, the piston also received significant damage. Deposits of carbon deposits were from the bottom of the piston in an incredible amount. The most expensive Stihl oil is just disgusting.
Great collection of personal saws. I want to believe in the Stihl Ultra, but?? I've been running V.P. 40:1. If I have any problems than I'll fix em when they quit. 2 stroke oil shouldn't be complicated and at the end of the day all I want is engine protection. I don't want to have to go study for a degree on oil manufacturing process in order to choose correctly. Thanks for sharing this
i will say it works but the years i have seen things its runs too hot being on the exhaust side is where the damage is use correct oil because it also helps cooling
My question is, is the crank bearings bad? Since the oil really doesn't burn, the carbon film on the exhaust side of the piston doesn't bother me. Our snowmobile race motors have that same condition, not as bad because we tear them down more often. 😉 In regards to a trimmer, you owe me a 🍻! Nice video
It doesn't matter how much (more than 1 to 50) synthetic oil, such as STIHL Ultra, is added. The thickness and strength of the anti-friction mono(multi)molecular layer of this 2T oil matters!
Perhaps you should make a video detailing this..... Ultra is a twenty year old formula that needs to be updated. As to the viscosity (thickness and strength as you say) it's one of the thinnest oils I've tested with a 40C value of 46 and a 100C value of 8.
The problem isn't the synthetic HP......keep feathering that engine you're going to have carbon deposits and possible score the piston/cylinder no matter what oil that is used. I see it everyday. Stay 50:1 for Stihl.
I hear this from Stihl Tech Support and some higher ups, "you're not running it right". In reality you need a more forgiving 2T oil. A good JASO FD rated oil with a modern detergent package will burn cleaner regardless of how you run it without sacrificing lubrication. Synthetic HP (Ultra) is FB rated. Most of those top tier oils also have a lower flash point and higher viscosity. I would like nothing more than for Stihl to reformulate their synthetic 2T oil. The only change to the formula has been to remove the fuel stabilizer. (That's from Stihl) They lead the way in most aspects of OPE, why they have their head in the sand about this is beyond me. Every oil Echo sells, top to bottom, is FD rated and Husqvarna XP+ is as well.
@@richardflagg3084 I see what your saying, don't get me wrong I'm not saying Stihl lube. is superior. I'm a big proponent of buying the best gas and don't skimp on the quality of oil and proper mix ratio. .........and use up your gas before mixing more into a partially filled can. 👍
In regards to that black varnish on the exhaust side...that looks like the polymerization that castor based oils leave behind. Coking will be hard and look like black glass almost but not super shiny. It's very abrasive. I've had ine oil coke in my testing.
That crankcase is not an oil pan. Any oil found in the two stroke engine's crankcase is a problem not a desirable feature. It means that the unburned oil is pooling on the bottom instead of exiting the cylinder as the oil/fuel mixture is ignited. The cylinder is supposed to be dry when disassembled because chainsaws are not like cars with oil pumps, oil galleries and valves that require constant lubrication. Two stroke engines get their lubrication via the fuel/oil mixture as a unit at runtime, not separate entities that can be observed and analyzed with a flashlight when the chainsaw is on the bench in pieces. Also, burning 40:1 or 35:1 in a saw designed to use 50:1 is the same as using premium fuel in a car designed to run on regular gas. In other words, zero benefit for extra $$$ spent.
So Richard, I've watched most of your videos that show the results of Ultra. I have Ultra and Amsoil sitting on my bench, and a coin which I flipped today. Saber won the toss. But, are your videos implying that the Stihl saws may make it to the end of their two year extended warranty, then cake up and sieze? (correction, commercial users have a shorter warranty) I'm going to run the Amsoil 50:1 with E0 gas. I have one new pro saw, one MS170 then other tools including a new Poulan Pro small blower I was "gifted".
I had exhaust port problems with my fs 94r trimmers a 2 cycle engine and my hs94 hedge trimmers same engine 24 cc 2 cycle engine Stihl Ultra oil l went to echo Red Armor or Amsoil Sabre and the problem went away l think it's paraffin a wax that some oil companies use as a lubricant stay with Shaffer or Amsoil you can't go wrong Red Armor is good too but they don't make oil Shaffer and Amsoil do great video 👍
Subscribed to your channel recently, I can no longer count the videos on Stihl ultra oil. Now, I'm starting to know that the oil is not good. With all this, Stihl hasn't contacted you?
I know the legal dept. has had a look at some of these videos. I haven't been personally been contacted, yet. Truth be told I've asked, in at least one of these videos, to forward this info on to someone important at Stihl. They lead the industry in most every facet of the industry, except with this outdated product, and I'd like them say something else besides "you're not running it right if you are having issues". I've personally heard this from multiple higher ups at Stihl when I've asked at trade shows.
2T dirt bike racing oils have roughly double the viscosity of a common 2T oils. Check spec documents and see for yourselves. So I am guessing that if one would like to provide better engine lubrication, you put higher viscosity oil and continue with 50:1. And also those oils are probably much higher overal quality. Those are Ester 100% synt oils. I guess they burn cleaner, keep temp lower and etc.
@@richardflagg3084 yes it works pretty well. the spark plug be very clean and lil oily . my spark plug have a tan color . not black at all. i dont trust them cheap stuff
Wow just wow...Stihl ultra is some magical oil, it can lubricate the top end and you can say "I see the oil" but on the bottom end somehow the oil intentionally avoids that part and the claim is "I don't see liquid oil so there must be no lubrication what-so-ever". Personally, I could care less about your oil preference. If you want to do a real oil test, get with project farm and learn how to do a real lubrication test.
If we call Ultra what it is EPA oil, then combined that with a restricted muffler and jet limiters. Nothing can perform under those conditions, it will run but it is really just more wasteful in the long run, with parts replacement and poor performance.
Seems to me that that deposit is a result of partially burned fuel / mix , probably because that area is the area that spends the most time over the exhaust window , as a result it runs at slightly less high temperature than the top of the piston and cylinder, the piston is a heat sink basically and the reason you don’t see that same evidence on the intake side is because of much lower temperature of the intake charge, theses are byproducts of incomplete combustion of the fuel additives in fuel and oil mix …
I have no experience with Stihl Ultra, this seems like a good reason to keep it that way. I've been using Bombardier XPS 2T synthetic for a couple decades now. Part number 779127
I agree, Richard.I do not use Ultra, anymore, but I have never thought 40:1 was any better than 50:1. I have friends on UTube that run 32:1 in all their two cycle equipment. I tell them I do not run molasses in my saws. I only run JASO FD oil and have settled on three, but I like one of them better. The three oils are Husqvarna XP, Echo Power Blend Gold and Echo Red Armor. My favorite is Red Armor at 50:1 with an added stabilizer. I run nothing but Premium, non ethanol gas. Stihl Ultra is a JASO FB certified oil, so it is a twenty year old two cycle oil. Stihl does not market a FD certified oil in the US. Ultra is the filthiest oil on the market. I have never had a failure running Ultra but I have had to burn out mufflers and spark arrestors at a very high rate running Ultra. Ultra just has to much ash content in it.
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Do yourself a favor, go read from the Jaso site what separates the FA - FD then read the requirements to become certified. You will find, in JASOs own words that they DO NOT verify any oil blenders claims. It's all on the honor system and is nothing more than a pay to play scheme. I have the document here put not sure a picture can be posted in a UA-cam comment. Another thing to remember, even if an oil actually meets the JASO standard, its a minimum standard that can and is surpassed. I've been doing oil testing till engine failure for several years. FD means nothing to me now when I see how poorly many FD rated oils have done.
@@MrJeepfreak1972 great info
40:1 has a better oil film than 50:1. 50:1 doesn't quite lube the wristpin as well as 40:1. I have run both in my saw, I noticed 40:1 ran cooler when re-tuned.
@@eugenecrabs3954 great comment l agree l use Amsoil Sabre because they are in the oil business but echo Red Armor is good too !both are rated FD😇
You've been making a compelling case that Stihl oil is junk. Funny thing you're not the only one coming up with that conclusion. Thanks for the content.
I don't see this problem with the orange bottle low tech oil. For what it's worth......
He is one of very few though, for good reason. it runs fine.
I’ve been running Stihl Ultra for about 3yrs with non-ethanol gas. It was the packs I bought with equipment to extend the warranties. After seeing these videos & others. I chunked what I had left in the trash. I bought Echo Red Armor that I’m going to run at 40:1 for a year to clean all my engines. Then I’ll switch to AMSOIL Sabre at probably 60:1. I did buy a bottle of Redline All Sports to try later on too.
Hi Richard, I'm in Australia and Just watching the comments, it seems no-one is commenting on the bigger issue here which is the lack of non existent amount of oil film on the big end rod and case bearings. I have used the HP ultra for years at 32:1, but I have now switched to Motul 800 2t after seeing your pull down test videos with ultra and other oils...great review Richard.
Spot on!
Good videos you got. I had some stihl ultra as well, I was gonna try but not after watching your videos on it for my saws, but however I just recently mixed my outboard tank at 42-1 so can get rid of what I have. Not sure if good idea or not but figured a outboard runs cooler as its water cooled. Lol! So if you think is bad idea don't be afraid to reply back your thoughts.
My dad told me 16:1 was the norm when chainsaws first became popular, I use 25:1 in 95 or 98 octane depending on availability non ethanol fuel in all my 2 strokes including motorcycles and have done for 45 years with no issues, never burnt a piston out, I have rebuilt many saws that had been running 50:1 and not old saws either. I just rebuilt my 084 as it had done a crank seal, the piston and bore were fine but I put a new piston and bearings in it as the saw had done a lot of work. The only thing I ever had a problem running 25:1 was a small Husqvarna whippersnipper, oil started dripping from the muffler.
Richard, thank you for bringing attention to this issue with the Stihl HP Ultra oil. I would like to ask which oil you recommend and at what mix ratio for weed eater, chain saw, and backpack blowers? As a community, the more light we shine on this issue the more necessary it will be for Stihl to address the problem. There are some very smart people on UA-cam that could potentially science the hell out of this topic to find out exactly why the HP Ultra is performing this way. Hopefully it will happen and hopefully they'll share the results with everyone, including Stihl. As a user of HP Ultra I'm not even sure what to do with it anymore. Thanks again, from a new subscriber.
Just look for a Jaso FD rated oil. Any of the Echo oils meet that criteria. Husqvarna XP+ or Saber by Amsoil. Honestly Saber burns cleaner at 40:1 than any oil I've ever seen and leaves a great oil film at that ratio. I feel running it at 80:1 is a bit skinny.
Never have run Stihl Ultra, just some of the orange bottle. But what I do run in my vintage/antique Lawn-Boys, chainsaw, trimmers, and leaf blower is either Echo Red Armor or Amsoil Saber mixed at 40:1 in ethanol free rec fuel. One can of fuel for everything.
Although I'm still leery of running 40:1 in it, I switched my r7070 Lawn-Boy to Red Armor at the end of this past season. After less than one tankfull of fuel, I already noticed it running smoother than it did on 32:1 Lawn-Boy oil. I was running 25:1 in it at the time.
I have since dumped the last of my Moto-mix into my truck to burn it up (three quarts in a 35 gallon tank). Next year I'm going to Red Armor across the board in my Stihl trimmer and blower, Husqvarna chainsaw, and Lawn-Boy mower.
I'm already using 91 octane non-ethanol gas in ALL my engines.
@@leehuff2330 I have a 1975 5024 Bricktop, a 1978 5277, and a 1987 5254. I run the same 40:1 mix in all three. I pulled the mufflers off the check the exhaust ports, and there was a good film of oil on the piston and rings. When I rebuilt the carb on my Bricktop, the crank was covered in a nice film of oil too. Gotta love working on the D400/600 engines. Easy as pie.
I just ran the regular orange bottle Stihl oil, without any issues, though I never tore them down to check.
But I did see a UA-cam video that showed that higher amount of oil in the gas seemed to make the saw run much hotter in general. So I plan to stick to 50 to 1 on any saw I get.
I think back with the older saws they didn't have good specific chainsaw oil and used motor oils. So more oil was needed because it broke down too much in gas.
But I'm open to trying a different brand of oil that has a good reputation in the future. I just haven't decided which one I might try.
Thanks for the heads up. I almost bought some ultra, but I stuck to the stuff I used without issues before.
So just bought a 2022 261 and I bought that oil to get the warranty apparently I shouldn’t use it? What other should I use? Lucas?
Amsoil Saber, Husqvarna XP+ or any of the Echo oils. Look for the FD rating on the side of the bottle. They all maintain superior lubricity but contain a top tier detergent package unlike Ultra. I have done several videos on the subject that better explain the why and why nots.
The motomix cleaning test is misleading if they specifically claimed it's the oil responsible for it. It's actually the gas they use, alkylated gas specifically (Aspen, VP, Trufuel etc all use the same type of gas, more or less). It's pure paraffins, no benzene or other long chain hydrocarbon "impurities" that don't burn that well and create deposits. So the reason why that gas cleans the combustion chamber so well is because it doesn't create new deposits, and the already existing ones burn up.
Richard would it matter what it looks like, is it only cosmetic if the engine and parts are working perfectly?
Keep the videos coming Rich. Good stuff your putting out.
I really see the muffler cooking up on all the exhaust side like especially the farmboss ms271 they're returning them with cooked pistons jammed up. I have seen them like this but I believe that the muffler is way too restricted the engine needs to release the heat more efficiently. This is what I observed only but I really do agree with you on the oil. I use AMSOIL
I am one of the few that after warmup WOT or full tilt buggie on the hushy 555, I have some bad slopes where machines do not get, 5ft tall grass falls like it is nobody's business.
That is some nasty exhaust port cooking, I have never seen that on any of my saws, even with the 1990's husky mineral oil.
Rich another good video!
Hushy
What oil do you recommend and at what ratio sir ?
261 is doing it also but I am running Lucas Oil and I have ran Lucas Oil for years I never seen a piston this bad so I don't know what's causing this issue and my are still are not doing this so what is the issue
I have a theory. To meet the EPA and other requirements placed on their products, Stihl may have the M-tronic code holding the engine consistently as lean as possible, with some small safety margin. This consistent lean state, if true, might help explain your popcorn fart, almost dry bearing and crank surfaces. Just the thought makes me happy I just bought a non C-M 261.
What do you think about this theory? Your test kit may be able to prove or disprove a potential cause. These saws can't stay dry for long.
I would agree with you! I have older saws and new ones all on HP ultra and good 95 octane and 35-40:1 the older saws definitely have more oil residue inside then the new stuff! I would think fuel quality would play a big roll in how well oil burns too.
Instead of giving you double the warranty for buying a 6 pack of ultra they should double it if you don’t use ultra!
Just cause you buy it for the "warranty" doesn't mean you have to run it.........
The Ultra oil would be constant. The fuel would be a variable. The 40:1 mix would actually be leaner with that oil because it does not burn like the Schaeffers petro oil does. Petroleum base oils burn and contribute to the total BTUs. Some of the synthetic oils like H1R for example do not contribute to the total BTU burn either. One of the big reasons Stihl is running Ultra at 50:1 so the BTU total is not changed to much by the oil, and the discharge does not effect the EPA numbers so much. When you go to Schaeffers at 40:1 you actually richen your total BTU total, and cool the motor better with more BTUs, and more cooling oil.
Said my peace on it!! Totally different experience. I go through gallons a year!! Run it at 50:1 89 oct. Keep saws blowed out never caked up like that, sharp and working. Your experience with it is neglected saws, home owner, and not used the recommended way. I own 4 sthil saws 500is and ms660 but I own 45 husqvarna saws. So it's not brand loyalty to me its works great for how I run my saws! Pick oil to your style of running and Performance of saw. I ran dolmars for years and used only Amsoil. Stock 7900 is 180pst where stock 372xp torque 135 psi.
I don't work on homeowner saws. Only commercial. Different companies, same results. Especially with the 261's. I see the 201's with the same issue. The larger saws seem to tolerate it better. I've said it a bunch, there are more "forgiving" oils out there. Ultra is JASO rated FB, two tiers below the current standard of FD. Run whatcha like. You'll have to admit there is an issue given the repeatability of this "condition".
@@richardflagg3084 I tore my 2 year old 395xp , 7 year old 372 x torque, and a 7 year old 445 today where they came off trailer this morning and busted tank handles etc just to see. I can pull mufflers of 40 saws tomorrow. The difference maybe is I run 50:1 it blow the carbon right out the exhaust I guess lol no gum up no cakeing. I don't know lol lol. Maybe it's how I run them maybe it's where I keep them tuned at ALL TIMES just crazy night and day differences. I make 1000 cuts a day literally! I have ran other oils. I just really like how it dosent gum.up the rings and never 1 bearing failure not 1! On 372 x torque the bearing failure prone saws!! I have 8 372 x torques not 1 but 8 that I run every single day. I have 585xps not checked 1 of them yet but I will tomorrow 1 has 50 tanks or so through it. I see what you have in your videos and it's UGLY LOL.
@@richardflagg3084My bad I thought in video you said you work for dealer? When showing husky diagnostic. I build new saws for 2 commercial tree companies Kendall,and Sealback hear in middle TN.
@@steppoffaith8426 I do work at a Husqvarna dealer two days a week. Just to be clear. That gives me access to the Common Service Tool. I rarely use it. I also have the Stihl MDG1 kit as well. Spendy but the saws are not going to get less complicated. They both come in handy every once in a while.
@@richardflagg3084 I agree. I’m just a “dumb” homeowner. But I have a 462 and a 261 that I’ve been running for years. I process 5-7 cords of wood a year. My first thought of seeing these saws is they physically look horrid. They look to be never cleaned or maintained. I take pride in my saws, clean them after every use, unless I am planning on using it again within the next week or so. Keep the air filter clean. And from day 1 I remove the spark arrestor and throw that baby away. (Let it breathe.)
Something people need to realize, especially on a M Tronic unit, but also a standard carbed unit. If you get a crack in the rubber air intake boot, the saw will run lean, even on M Tronic, because this is after the sensing. If your saw runs lean for a short period of time it will “cook” it, overheat and fail. To me these saws look cooked and poorly maintained. I’ve been running ultra in everything for years 50:1 and have never seen an issue. The piston looks great, looking when removing the muffler. I let my saw warm up before going WOT. And just take good care of my shit.
I wish I lived near you (I live in Spain) so I could bring you the Stihl FS-260 brushcutter we have at home. I say this because from the first moment we bought it, we also bought the HP Ultra oil and we have always been using it at 50:1, and today we have almost finished the 1 litre bottle, there will be about 1 cm left. What a mess of an oil with one of the lowest JASO categories. I think this is the fourth video I've seen from your channel related to this oil. I'm going to throw the rest of the bottle straight into the trash, and I'm going to put some cleaning additive in it for a while. Thank you very much for your time spent on all this stuff.
A JASO FD rated oil should do fine cleaning up the residue. Do you have Echo 2 stroke oil available in Spain? Every oil they sell here in the US is FD rated. It's just a suggestion as I don't know what oils are available to you.
@@richardflagg3084 Well, this afternoon I cleaned the brushcutter, and I also dismantled the exhaust pipe... Catastrophic the pile of carbon that was in the cylinder outlet. Part of the problem I think is also that the brushcutter (almost always used by my father) is not used at the highest rpm, so the oil does not burn properly either, and knowing that it is a FB oil the diagnosis is clear (the oil has always been used at 50:1). The Echo oil is sold here in Spain and is FD certified, I had also thought of using the MOTUL 800 2T Factory Line OFF ROAD oil.
@@robertomcatZX10 Once you switch to a better oil, running part throttle most of the time won't be as much of a problem, It will help to get the unit up to full operating temperature on occasion. The motul is a great oil but still has a flash point of 250C. The Echo oils are around 100C and may be more forgiving at lower operating temps.
@@richardflagg3084 Thank you very much for all your answers. In the Echo oil I have seen that the flash point is 78 °C but that value is under the ASTM D 93 standard, on the other hand the Motul and Stihl HP Ultra use the ASTM D 92 standard and I don't know how to translate between one standard and the other, because I see that there is a lot of difference in the flash points.
@@robertomcatZX10 I'm not a chemical engineer. I've learned a lot over the last year from these videos. There are multiple reports published on these oils and it can be confusing. That being said, choosing a better oil with a better detergent package is the best place to start.
Thank you, I've enjoyed the conversation today.
Do you think it is bottles not full enough? And the mix being lite?. I know my cylinders s have never looked like that with the silver or orange. But most of mine was orange. But I haven't had a spark arrestor in it for years
the bottles are usually overfilled by a little bit. This oil doesn't meet the newer standards of two stroke oils. JASO FD rated is what you want to look for. This oil is FB rated, just look on the bottle.
Where are you located if I need work done?
Thank you for doing this video Richard. That pond water is no better at 40 :1. Lol.
Just bought a brand new ms 462, and to get the extended warranty I bought the Ultra oil. Now I have watched several videos, all of them saying not to use the ultra oil, I've spent 1400$ on that saw, will someone please tell me the best oil to use
I have the same question. From what I have read in the comments here, Amsoil Sabre and Schaefer 7000. I have read elsewhere that Redline racing oil is good, but crazy expensive.
Thanks for this Richard! Fan and follower on UA-cam and OPE forum!
What about semi synthetic Stihl HP Super..would you think is better than Ultra or?
I haven't seen that oil here in the southeast. I believe that is made by Castrol. No personal experience with it.
@@richardflagg3084 I have found that HP Super is JASO FD certified oil, an Ultra is only FB...hmm
Can you tell what fuel did you use in mixing ultra? Octane? Ethanol?
@@gravityloose Ultra IS FB rated. I don't think the fuel is going to help the end result. Again, there are more "forgiving: oils out there. Sounds like you have a winner
@@richardflagg3084 If i have mix 50:1 mixed about 2 weeks ago and want to go 40:1, can I add oil to this mix to a achieve 40:1? Or I have to mix a fresh one..?
@@gravityloose The difference between 40:1 and 50:1 is about 1 Tablespoon (.6 ounce) per gallon if that helps put things in perspective.
I never ran my Ryobi weed-eater particularly hard. (Circa 1993-5)
Have always used *Bike* oils, though - MC1+ @ 32 to 1 in the Ryobi, “to simplify mixing of small volumes” - and both screws turned out a fair bit from the stock “too lean by a mile” - smooth idle with good pickup on the Low, on the verge of blubbering under load on the High.
That particular oil is no longer sold. Have Maxima K2 for the Zenoah “Generator engine.” Will be running ~ 28 to 1 on that, either canned fuel or non-ethanol. It’s not likely to be run much.
You've got me sold because I'm seeing very similar results in my own saws, weedeaters, and blowers when i pull the mufflers off and check the pistons and I've been running 40:1 since the beginning. Which oil do you run? I've bought redmax, lucas, the other stihl and also husqvarna. Been thinking about trying Schaeffer because their grease is awesome and has made a believer outta me on heavy equipment. Btw i never did find your email on the channel anywhere.
I run Schaeffers 7000. It is a boat oil but does surprisingly well in chainsaws too. Dominator is a fine oil as well. Run whatcha like. Trust but verify.
I’m using the Lucas right now. But usually run stuff for dirt bikes. Smoke a lil tho running the dirt bike stuff
Been using schaeffers 7000 semi synthetic 40:1, and if I don't have that it's lucas land and sea semi synthetic, and fir the last few months as a test I've been using vp 40:1 in the gallon can and its just as good
Hi Richard here is a something about stihl ultra it is made out of complex esters and esters is very hard to burn plus the ultra oil has a flashpoint of 435 and a viscosity index of 154 The reason that it is coking on the front of the piston which is on the exhaust side it is what I call half burnt Esther oil it we’ll do that if the oil has no complete additive package
Thanks for the info!
@Eric Wyke. Thank you for that explanation. Sounds like Stihl went the cheap route with the additive package.
So should you put more 2 stroke oil then 40 to 1?
40:1 is fine. Just use a modern two stroke oil that is FD rated.
Hi, is the Blue Stihl premium oil better than ultra? Cleaner? Cheers
Stayed to the end what oil do you recommend or better yet what do you use ??? thanks stay safe frosty and free buddy
Hi Richard I would like to comment about Amsoil dominator flashpoint is 201 and the viscosity index is 166 the flashpoint is a little low that don’t mean it actually burns at 201 it is Easter based oil but it has A light Weight mineral oil in it to thin it down and the additive package that is in that we will pick up the viscosity index note whatever oil anybody chooses to run make sure it is 120 viscosity index and above and the odor of The oil will have a ammonia smell to it that is the detergents and cleaners here is some oil that smells ammonia smelling Amsoil saber Amsoil dominator Schaeffers 7000 Schaeffers 9000 Bel Ray H1 r these oils have a high viscosity index which is good for high and extreme RPMs and heat
Excellent information, thank you.
Thanks Eric....very helpful information.
I call it coking too when i worked in a machine shop while I was going to trade school my old boss taught me that term when diesel heads and rings were all caked with carbon. His explanation was improper combustion from too much idle time or not getting up to temperature/poor fuel quality. Not sure how that transfers over 🤷🏽♂️
I’d like to see an Ultra saw torn down next to and non Ultra saw to see the difference.
This guy has posted video after video about Stihl Ultra. I use Stihl’s orange-container oil. I have 12 pieces of Stihl equipment, several of which are 25 years old, to maintain a 40-acre estate. Not one has ever needed a piston or cylinder, and I have have run 50:1 orange Stihl since the outset.
You owe me a beer lol!! I live in a rural area and trim ditches as my side-hustle. I run my Stihl 94R wide open for 8+ hours a day 3 days a week. The grass is taller then me in a lot of cases.
It's internal chambers, piston, and exhaust port is still 'shiny damp' using Amsoil Saber with their Quickshot added to it also.
Never buy oil from a company that doesn't make oil. Stihl makes engines, They're not an oil company.
Ya just can't beat Saber. That's a lot of brush cutting
@@richardflagg3084 I make $17/h at my day job, $60/h cutting brush and my phone is ringing off the hook. I'm 52 and wish I had of started this when I was 20.
I thought castrol make their oil
@@BaberJacks They do. They're the only ones I know of that tell you who's oil you're really buying. That said, I think Castrol gives them their bottom of the barrel stuff. Chainsaw mechanics on here dislike it.
@@TheBeatenPaths im pissed i got 5l of it. Im starting to think it may have cased the bottom end in my ms 170 to blow a hole in it.
I’ve been using Stihl ultra for about 15 years with zero issues. I don’t get the hate.
I have run it exclusively in my gardening kit for 5 years. No failures, no problems, no lack of power...
Thoroughly enjoy your videos Richard. I heard from several other sources that the US made ultra and the german made have differences I don't know how true that is. Have you anyone running saws outside the US running the European version of ultra with any problems? Could a lot of that blackening on the piston be from the gas rather than the oil? Cheers Richard keep these informative videos coming 👍🏻
The US Ultra is blended at a refinery in Louisiana. I'm not sure if it is the same "recipe" as the Euromarket Ultra.
@@richardflagg3084 it looks the same "pond water" 😄
@@richardflagg3084hp ultra for Europe is manufactured by Castrol. I live in Russia. There is a brush cutter fs 561 and fs 491. unleaded gasoline with an octane rating of 92 and Stihl hp ultra in a ratio of 50 to 1 as recommended by Stihl disabled the piston. For 190 hours of work at full throttle, a deposit was formed as if the spit had worked for 5 years and produced 3 tons of fuel. As a result , carbon deposits ripped through the cylinder, the piston also received significant damage. Deposits of carbon deposits were from the bottom of the piston in an incredible amount. The most expensive Stihl oil is just disgusting.
Great collection of personal saws. I want to believe in the Stihl Ultra, but?? I've been running V.P. 40:1. If I have any problems than I'll fix em when they quit. 2 stroke oil shouldn't be complicated and at the end of the day all I want is engine protection. I don't want to have to go study for a degree on oil manufacturing process in order to choose correctly. Thanks for sharing this
Stick with that VP! I'll test it when I can get caught up on repairs. I'm buried at the moment
I look forward to seeing the results from your test.
i will say it works but the years i have seen things its runs too hot being on the exhaust side is where the damage is
use correct oil because it also helps cooling
My question is, is the crank bearings bad? Since the oil really doesn't burn, the carbon film on the exhaust side of the piston doesn't bother me. Our snowmobile race motors have that same condition, not as bad because we tear them down more often. 😉 In regards to a trimmer, you owe me a 🍻! Nice video
Not on this one. The bearings are fine and one day my friend, we'll have a beer on me.
Very interesting👍🏻 I figured it'd be better than that at 40:1. Glad I'm still on the castor 927 fling for now😅
It doesn't matter how much (more than 1 to 50) synthetic oil, such as STIHL Ultra, is added. The thickness and strength of the anti-friction mono(multi)molecular layer of this 2T oil matters!
Perhaps you should make a video detailing this..... Ultra is a twenty year old formula that needs to be updated. As to the viscosity (thickness and strength as you say) it's one of the thinnest oils I've tested with a 40C value of 46 and a 100C value of 8.
@@richardflagg3084 Not only viscosity but thickness and strength of thin layer of MoDTC or ZDDP are more important !
The problem isn't the synthetic HP......keep feathering that engine you're going to have carbon deposits and possible score the piston/cylinder no matter what oil that is used. I see it everyday. Stay 50:1 for Stihl.
I hear this from Stihl Tech Support and some higher ups, "you're not running it right". In reality you need a more forgiving 2T oil. A good JASO FD rated oil with a modern detergent package will burn cleaner regardless of how you run it without sacrificing lubrication. Synthetic HP (Ultra) is FB rated.
Most of those top tier oils also have a lower flash point and higher viscosity. I would like nothing more than for Stihl to reformulate their synthetic 2T oil. The only change to the formula has been to remove the fuel stabilizer. (That's from Stihl) They lead the way in most aspects of OPE, why they have their head in the sand about this is beyond me. Every oil Echo sells, top to bottom, is FD rated and Husqvarna XP+ is as well.
@@richardflagg3084 I see what your saying, don't get me wrong I'm not saying Stihl lube. is superior. I'm a big proponent of buying the best gas and don't skimp on the quality of oil and proper mix ratio. .........and use up your gas before mixing more into a partially filled can. 👍
Maybe 16 to 1 if you must use this Gunge???
how do you make it 40:1?
3.2oz per gallon or .8 gallon for a 2.6oz premeasured bottle that is meant for 1gallon.
@@richardflagg3084 Thank You Richard!
Shining the light on Stihls. I can feel the butt hurt & belly aching just watching this video.
Low Hangin' Fruit Sir
I have never seen issues related to the oil running their oil. I have seen fuel related and condition related problems though.
All the 261 I’ve seen , are just like this. No matter the oil used !
I've switched to Amsoil Saber..excellent!!
In regards to that black varnish on the exhaust side...that looks like the polymerization that castor based oils leave behind. Coking will be hard and look like black glass almost but not super shiny. It's very abrasive. I've had ine oil coke in my testing.
I work at a Stihl dealership. We don't use Stihl oils, we use RedMax.
Echo/Redmax have the best line of oils of all the manufacturers, hands down.
That crankcase is not an oil pan. Any oil found in the two stroke engine's crankcase is a problem not a desirable feature. It means that the unburned oil is pooling on the bottom instead of exiting the cylinder as the oil/fuel mixture is ignited. The cylinder is supposed to be dry when disassembled because chainsaws are not like cars with oil pumps, oil galleries and valves that require constant lubrication. Two stroke engines get their lubrication via the fuel/oil mixture as a unit at runtime, not separate entities that can be observed and analyzed with a flashlight when the chainsaw is on the bench in pieces. Also, burning 40:1 or 35:1 in a saw designed to use 50:1 is the same as using premium fuel in a car designed to run on regular gas. In other words, zero benefit for extra $$$ spent.
You should do some more research on this topic.
@@richardflagg3084 Lol, nice projection. Please don't forget to check the brake pads on you chainsaw next time you take it apart.
@@Steelologist 🤡
I have the same problem with hp ultra and 261 Ms... Wtf?? 🤔🤣🤣
Hmmmmm?
So Richard, I've watched most of your videos that show the results of Ultra. I have Ultra and Amsoil sitting on my bench, and a coin which I flipped today. Saber won the toss. But, are your videos implying that the Stihl saws may make it to the end of their two year extended warranty, then cake up and sieze? (correction, commercial users have a shorter warranty) I'm going to run the Amsoil 50:1 with E0 gas. I have one new pro saw, one MS170 then other tools including a new Poulan Pro small blower I was "gifted".
I had exhaust port problems with my fs 94r trimmers a 2 cycle engine and my hs94 hedge trimmers same engine 24 cc 2 cycle engine Stihl Ultra oil l went to echo Red Armor or Amsoil Sabre and the problem went away l think it's paraffin a wax that some oil companies use as a lubricant stay with Shaffer or Amsoil you can't go wrong Red Armor is good too but they don't make oil Shaffer and Amsoil do great video 👍
Subscribed to your channel recently, I can no longer count the videos on Stihl ultra oil. Now, I'm starting to know that the oil is not good. With all this, Stihl hasn't contacted you?
I know the legal dept. has had a look at some of these videos. I haven't been personally been contacted, yet. Truth be told I've asked, in at least one of these videos, to forward this info on to someone important at Stihl.
They lead the industry in most every facet of the industry, except with this outdated product, and I'd like them say something else besides "you're not running it right if you are having issues". I've personally heard this from multiple higher ups at Stihl when I've asked at trade shows.
Thank you for the answer, we agree, no problem with the HP SUPER from Stihl@@richardflagg3084
2T dirt bike racing oils have roughly double the viscosity of a common 2T oils. Check spec documents and see for yourselves.
So I am guessing that if one would like to provide better engine lubrication, you put higher viscosity oil and continue with 50:1. And also those oils are probably much higher overal quality.
Those are Ester 100% synt oils. I guess they burn cleaner, keep temp lower and etc.
no one here runs the Redline 2t racing oil?
I work on small engines too and I'm convinced ethanol is the root to all evil in small engines. 2 and 4 strokes.
Every lawn care I know runs them wide open no gard on them. Edging walkways and driveways. Wide open not plip plip.
i use 2 stoke oil like for boats and dirt bikes for my chainsaw and weedeater.
Works pretty good doesn't it, The better boat and bike oils are extremely good.
@@richardflagg3084 yes it works pretty well. the spark plug be very clean and lil oily . my spark plug have a tan color . not black at all. i dont trust them cheap stuff
Run ultra in everything. No issues at all.
Like you’ve said you keep trying the same thing expecting different results but they aren’t there. After this I’m leery of touching that stuff.
Stihl should just stick with the orange bottle. 40:1 stihl orange bottle is hard to beat.
I never ran that oil after the one time I did and realized it was the worst smelling saw gas to run! 🤢
I qiut all stihl stuff I bought new saw junk I went back to a 30 old Husqvarna 254xp never let me down
Remember this. Chainsaws wear out too.
Hard to argue with results.
Wow just wow...Stihl ultra is some magical oil, it can lubricate the top end and you can say "I see the oil" but on the bottom end somehow the oil intentionally avoids that part and the claim is "I don't see liquid oil so there must be no lubrication what-so-ever". Personally, I could care less about your oil preference. If you want to do a real oil test, get with project farm and learn how to do a real lubrication test.
If we call Ultra what it is EPA oil, then combined that with a restricted muffler and jet limiters. Nothing can perform under those conditions, it will run but it is really just more wasteful in the long run, with parts replacement and poor performance.
Preach! Haha
And all the people said "Amen"
Red armor 32:1 for me
Stihl is such crap. sold all my stihl, went echo and husky. running amsoil saber, never looking back.
Ultra is not good for moving parts... at all
Seems to me that that deposit is a result of partially burned fuel / mix , probably because that area is the area that spends the most time over the exhaust window , as a result it runs at slightly less high temperature than the top of the piston and cylinder, the piston is a heat sink basically and the reason you don’t see that same evidence on the intake side is because of much lower temperature of the intake charge, theses are byproducts of incomplete combustion of the fuel additives in fuel and oil mix …
I have no experience with Stihl Ultra, this seems like a good reason to keep it that way.
I've been using Bombardier XPS 2T synthetic for a couple decades now.
Part number 779127