I have been logging for 35 years and have never had any type of mix oil fail me. I have had carbon buildup on saws that would make novice mechanics believe that they wouldn't run. I have been very well satisfied with a 40 to 1 ratio on all two-cycle mix. If you keep your saw sharp and take the air compressor and clean the gunk away you will never have any issues with the interior crankcase and head of your saw. Yes it's raining in northern Wisconsin today and I am not in the woods working. Thank you for posting your videos and allowing us to comment.
I switched to Red Armor because I cant find anywhere local that carries Saber. I really like it I believe my saws definitely run and start better 40/1 after switching from Ultra, but might have to bight the bullet and just try ordering some Saber online.
I've got a 16 year old ms250, have ran the hell out of it, sometimes cutting oak, hickory and pecan, some wood about 2 feet across. This is in SC, sometimes around 100 degrees, saw much to my surprise, still runs good and from what I can see when muffler is off,it's really clean. Nothing but ultra since day one. I only use 91 octane, non ethanol, boat gas as we call it, I think that's the key. Also I let it run like hell. Just picked up a new ms250 last week and ordered a new 261.
Starting 2023 with a vengeance. You as a shop owner & guy who truly isn't brand bias, the fact that saw owners don't listen to what you're honestly telling them is completely ignorant on their part. I do thank you for your time & advice Rich.
I just tore apart my 661 cm. I’ve had it 4 years. I only run it with a 36” bar falling big timer. The piston and jug looked brand new. Seriously. No carbon build up. The cylinder still had a good cross hatch and the piston still had the machining marks on it up and down. I have only ran VP premix at 50:1. I was amazed. Plenty of oil in the case and in the piston.
Kind of curious, usually a good ester based oil runs pretty clean, the paraffins have given me fit in the Autotunes .they actually can leave a waxy film...everywhere internally. Bel-Ray H1R from days of yor was an excellent oil as was Mobil One MX2 both ester based. So I guess two things come to mind, the "age" isn't the issue as the formulation technology really has been sorted for a while. I run a heavier mix and have clean looking pistons on all my saw even the Autotunes I have from when I was tweaking them back in the 2013-14 time frame. Conversely I have customer saws with a "dry" look and coked look as you have there on essentially newer saws with less then a couple of years,I always wondered if it was the oil or the mix of some other factor.
I take that RedArmor any day. Stihl has excellent marketing and the dealer “almost” will give the oil away at purchase, but not always. I was almost turned to the “Ultra” way of thinking, but then I was utubeing and Chickanic turned me around, then I came across your channel as well. Richard, it’s just a matter of time before the 2stroke devices need MAJOR surgery (like piston replacement) and then the customer will pay top dollar in parts AND labor. It’s always list (book time) for both.
Air filter restrictions make the m- tonic lean out fuel to compensate. This makes for a two cycle that’s limited in power. Raises heat. The lean out is also accompanied by an ignition compensation too.
I got a theory. Ultra probably won’t make the saws blow up in the warranty time frame but it sure seems it ain’t doing any favors to extend the life of the saws which = more future sales. Just a thought.
I stopped using ultra in my saws over 5 years ago. I find Schaeffer’s 7000 at 32:1 works well in the larger saws and echo red armor 40:1 in the smaller ones. Currently trying 89 octane ethanol free pump gas rather than premium for giggles and grins I guess. Any information on ultra available in Canada? I understand it’s made by Castrol.
I have some Aspen 2T samples at work I'm going to take a look at in the near future. The Original oil video I did with a 261cm ran motomix as it's primary fuel. Have a look it's got over a 100k views.
Richard is the 500i a strato engine? Is that the same as a 2 mix engine? I heard that the strato has 2 intake ports but the 500i only has one on the cylinder so would it be more like a regular 2 stroke? Stihl injection goes straight into the crankcase would that be better for lower end bearing lubrication? Just looking for your input cheers..
The 500i is a traditional non-strato cylinder with quad uppers (transfer ports), and receives the fuel charge from the injector through the intake manifold.
@@6900pilot That may be a little bit of "wives tale" information/opinion. As far as chainsaws go, I don't see any difference in bottom end longevity. With everything working as it should and tuned properly both strato and traditional intakes do fine. I'm a big fan of top tier mix oil and running a touch more than the manufacturer recommends. That's more important to me than how the charge is delivered. Just my two cents.
Long story short, all the saws look good except the 10 year old 90cc saw with god not knows how many hundred hours on it. I run klotz technaplate as a footnote, never had any problems with carbon.
we can use 2t oil for motorcycle to chainsaw??? it is a difference between 2t oil chainsaw and 2t for motorcycle. ex :belray, ipone, motul ,xps etc(for motorcycle)
Agree entirely with the OP. With the new mtronics systems one has to wonder what the Stihl Rep meant? Was he indicating the operator was not mixing fuel right or what? For those of us who are inside these saws regularly there is a notable problem. Time for the R&D guys to take notice and make some improvement. I haven't ran that mix in my saws in years!!
I run amsoil saber. I won't run stihl ultra anymore since I have investigated and found out that it causes the carbon build-up. I run a stihl chainsaw, but they need to come out with a lot better oil.
a hello from france ( message translated into English ) an oiler tells me that a 2-stroke oil based on esters like sthil ultra cannot be classified as jaso FD because of the ester, but FB OR fc as the motul based on esters it also tells me that the ester and well for low and high temperatures now I don’t know if it holds the truth but parrait that the motomix does not carbon thanks to the very pure gas
@@richardflagg3084 Hello Richard and thank you for your work that you share on the web I can’t find it in France I noticed that a 2T oil of medium quality normeS jaso FB OR FC , mixed with gasoline alkilate aspen in 4 times for example gave good results on the traces of carbonne, disassembling exhaust on my old saws husqvarna guinea pig I have no trace of carbon? I hate the subject but it’s really complicated if one day you can test aspen 2 pre-mixed, I will read with great care Thanks again Richard
40:1 and the bearings, crank and top end will last damn near forever. It still burns super clean at that ratio as well. I've done some performance work for a customer with that same mix and his stuff looks better than anyone else on the inside.
For many years I was believing Stihl Ultra must be great or they wouldn’t sell it. Even the fact they extend your warranty when you purchase Ultra with a new machine put me in the mindset that Stihl believes it to be the best option. However, after watching some of Richard’s videos a while back made me question myself and start inspecting my saws. I’ve since stocked up on Amsoil Saber (even became a dealer lol). I’m probably not gonna go 100:1 but probably 50:1. Time will tell.
Same. I guess Stihl figured that there ok oil will make there product last long enough for the warranty period compared to some no name cheap oil that could eat up the machine.
@@timfunk5084 Thing is Ive used there stuff for almost 10 years with zero issues but recently switched to amsoil saber since It was a better value and conveniently also a better product which was a nice surprise.
Stihl doesn't make their own mix oil, as it's contracted out. Regardless, it's still garbage when compared to other options. I've lost the top end on a MS260 and a Husky 372xpw because of the carbon. Maybe it was a blanket contract for 20 years or something like that, but you are absolutely correct; it needs to be corrected. Oh, and the 1952 Jonsered Raket XD was fuel injected, with an injector spraying fuel/air directly into the crankcase. So the 500i is the first electronically metered fuel injected saw, but not the first fuel injection by 70 years.
If it's a mtronic there is no "running it wrong" the CPU should protect the powerhead, that's the whole point of fuel injection, etc. They smoke the operator's clothes limbing and suck the fuel from my experience.
oil is cheap compared to a new top end. i've used redline 2-stroke oil in all mine, yamaha rd400, mazda rx7(yes a rotary is a 2-stroke and premix is better than stock - injecting crankcase oil), and chain saws. peace of mind, mine anyway, no issues.
The whole "you aint running it right" excuse doesn't hold any water in my book. I appreciate your videos in exposing this hyped up "premium" oil BS. Cheers mate.
If Stihl came out with a new oil to meet the latest standards, they would then have to explain why after all these years with the current blend they are changing to a better oil ( backing them selves into a corner). It's just easier to take the old lawyer adage, deny everything admit nothing! Problem solved!
Have some sales guy tell a man running 🏃 equipment for 28 years example me that I'm not running it rite ,is ridiculous. It's like the sales guys behind the counter when you bring in something to get work orvfixed they always have say something or get defensive. As if lol 😂
Another good video on that crap oil. I’m just glad I’ve never run it. 40/1 red Armour for my saws you can still see the rings on top of the pistons from factory black can be taken of with q tip.
I've been around long enough to know some guys simply don't mix their fuel carefully. They use crappy old low octane fuel thats been in a can God knows how long. They don't clean their air filters often enough, they neglect to lubricate the clutch bearing, running blunt chain etc. End result, premature failure and they need to blame something.... Arborists are some of the worst abusers of saws. I would never buy a saw from one. It'll be shot to shit. American gas has to much ethanol in it. That doesn't help much either.
I would tell your tree companies to call Amsoil or Shaeffer l wouldn't waste my time talking to the Stihl reps the Germans are all smarter than we are if l had to use Ultra l would retire lf you have carbon in the engine use Echo Red Armor to clean it up it works not sure about the lubricant factor 👍👍
Guess stihl is just riding the wave as long as possible. Just surprised so many loyal customers can't see anything bad about anything with a Stihl logo!
I reached out to my Stihl rep today, he's aware of my channel and has seen the results. He said he's going to forward this to some more important people. I think I made a good unbiased case with reasonable questions and expectations. Time will tell......
I have been logging for 35 years and have never had any type of mix oil fail me. I have had carbon buildup on saws that would make novice mechanics believe that they wouldn't run. I have been very well satisfied with a 40 to 1 ratio on all two-cycle mix. If you keep your saw sharp and take the air compressor and clean the gunk away you will never have any issues with the interior crankcase and head of your saw. Yes it's raining in northern Wisconsin today and I am not in the woods working. Thank you for posting your videos and allowing us to comment.
I'm a big fan of 40: There are only a couple of oils I think are good enough to run at 50:1 when looking at the bottom end lubrication.
@@richardflagg3084 do you think sabor is good enough for 50:1?
@@FishFind3000 Yup.
I switched to Red Armor because I cant find anywhere local that carries Saber. I really like it I believe my saws definitely run and start better 40/1 after switching from Ultra, but might have to bight the bullet and just try ordering some Saber online.
@@supersportimpalass Try a local motorcycle shop or search for an Amsoil dealer near you. Best of luck.
I've got a 16 year old ms250, have ran the hell out of it, sometimes cutting oak, hickory and pecan, some wood about 2 feet across. This is in SC, sometimes around 100 degrees, saw much to my surprise, still runs good and from what I can see when muffler is off,it's really clean. Nothing but ultra since day one. I only use 91 octane, non ethanol, boat gas as we call it, I think that's the key. Also I let it run like hell. Just picked up a new ms250 last week and ordered a new 261.
Starting 2023 with a vengeance. You as a shop owner & guy who truly isn't brand bias, the fact that saw owners don't listen to what you're honestly telling them is completely ignorant on their part. I do thank you for your time & advice Rich.
I just tore apart my 661 cm. I’ve had it 4 years. I only run it with a 36” bar falling big timer. The piston and jug looked brand new. Seriously. No carbon build up. The cylinder still had a good cross hatch and the piston still had the machining marks on it up and down. I have only ran VP premix at 50:1. I was amazed. Plenty of oil in the case and in the piston.
Kind of curious, usually a good ester based oil runs pretty clean, the paraffins have given me fit in the Autotunes .they actually can leave a waxy film...everywhere internally. Bel-Ray H1R from days of yor was an excellent oil as was Mobil One MX2 both ester based. So I guess two things come to mind, the "age" isn't the issue as the formulation technology really has been sorted for a while. I run a heavier mix and have clean looking pistons on all my saw even the Autotunes I have from when I was tweaking them back in the 2013-14 time frame. Conversely I have customer saws with a "dry" look and coked look as you have there on essentially newer saws with less then a couple of years,I always wondered if it was the oil or the mix of some other factor.
I take that RedArmor any day. Stihl has excellent marketing and the dealer “almost” will give the oil away at purchase, but not always. I was almost turned to the “Ultra” way of thinking, but then I was utubeing and Chickanic turned me around, then I came across your channel as well. Richard, it’s just a matter of time before the 2stroke devices need MAJOR surgery (like piston replacement) and then the customer will pay top dollar in parts AND labor. It’s always list (book time) for both.
Ultra oil was Stihl's answer for the carbon buildup issue in the 4Mix engines.
Would be interesting to see if this range of results would be seen on equipment using other brands of oil?
2:00 if you read the emissions tag it’s an 08/20. If you use your phone you can turn it upside down zoom in and see it.
Rich nice comparison. Everyone should watch, pause, rewind, and make up their mind👍
I just run pre mixed aspen 50:1. Never any problems.
Had them same markings on one of my saws. A new one .always pop it off peak after buy one
Air filter restrictions make the m- tonic lean out fuel to compensate. This makes for a two cycle that’s limited in power. Raises heat. The lean out is also accompanied by an ignition compensation too.
Been running amsoil sabre 100:1 two years now on a commercial level with zero issues.
The company I work for used stihl. Got them to switch to red armour after showing the carbon build up on a 362. And never looked back
I got a theory. Ultra probably won’t make the saws blow up in the warranty time frame but it sure seems it ain’t doing any favors to extend the life of the saws which = more future sales. Just a thought.
I stopped using ultra in my saws over 5 years ago. I find Schaeffer’s 7000 at 32:1 works well in the larger saws and echo red armor 40:1 in the smaller ones. Currently trying 89 octane ethanol free pump gas rather than premium for giggles and grins I guess. Any information on ultra available in Canada? I understand it’s made by Castrol.
That white bottle oil available in Canada is tinted blue and not available here in the States.
I have been using the Schaffer’s 9000. Love it. Never a issue
@@basketcase8540 I have looked into the 9000 but can only find it in gallons and it’s more expensive than the 7000. At least in this area.
Richard have you used stihl motomix on a test or have you tried Aspen 2 cycle fuel just wondering thanks for the post would love to see some results
I have some Aspen 2T samples at work I'm going to take a look at in the near future. The Original oil video I did with a 261cm ran motomix as it's primary fuel. Have a look it's got over a 100k views.
I'd like to see hp ultra ran with alkylate fuel like aspen 4 etc. I'd like to see a test on that..
Richard is the 500i a strato engine? Is that the same as a 2 mix engine? I heard that the strato has 2 intake ports but the 500i only has one on the cylinder so would it be more like a regular 2 stroke? Stihl injection goes straight into the crankcase would that be better for lower end bearing lubrication? Just looking for your input cheers..
The 500i is a traditional non-strato cylinder with quad uppers (transfer ports), and receives the fuel charge from the injector through the intake manifold.
@@richardflagg3084 so there should be no issues with lower crankcase lubrication like the stratos do?
There would be no issus then? Thank you for your wealth of information sir.
@@6900pilot That may be a little bit of "wives tale" information/opinion. As far as chainsaws go, I don't see any difference in bottom end longevity. With everything working as it should and tuned properly both strato and traditional intakes do fine.
I'm a big fan of top tier mix oil and running a touch more than the manufacturer recommends. That's more important to me than how the charge is delivered. Just my two cents.
@@richardflagg3084 thank you very much I appreciate the reply. I look forward to your next videos.
Long story short, all the saws look good except the 10 year old 90cc saw with god not knows how many hundred hours on it. I run klotz technaplate as a footnote, never had any problems with carbon.
What ratio? I been running 32:1.. seems a lil dirty but not to bad.. everything stays lubed.😂
we can use 2t oil for motorcycle to chainsaw???
it is a difference between 2t oil chainsaw and 2t for motorcycle.
ex :belray, ipone, motul ,xps etc(for motorcycle)
Curious to know when the last rebuild was on the 10 year old 661. And do they ever run Sea Foam or Mystery Oil to clean up the carbon?
Rich Good Content as always keep up the good work! I would like to know the hours on each of the saws since they are all M-Tronic.
Agree entirely with the OP. With the new mtronics systems one has to wonder what the Stihl Rep meant? Was he indicating the operator was not mixing fuel right or what? For those of us who are inside these saws regularly there is a notable problem. Time for the R&D guys to take notice and make some improvement. I haven't ran that mix in my saws in years!!
Great video came home eat snack. Perfect .
I run amsoil saber. I won't run stihl ultra anymore since I have investigated and found out that it causes the carbon build-up. I run a stihl chainsaw, but they need to come out with a lot better oil.
you should start hooking the mtronic saws up to the computer and start getting the oil used and the hours on those saws, just something to try.
a hello from france ( message translated into English )
an oiler tells me that a 2-stroke oil based on esters like sthil ultra cannot be classified as jaso FD because of the ester, but FB OR fc as the motul based on esters
it also tells me that the ester and well for low and high temperatures
now I don’t know if it holds the truth but parrait that the motomix does not carbon thanks to the very pure gas
I don't know if you can get Amsoil Saber in France but, it's an ester based oil and burns VERY clean at 40:1. It is FD rated.
@@richardflagg3084
Hello Richard and thank you for your work that you share on the web
I can’t find it in France
I noticed that a 2T oil of medium quality normeS jaso FB OR FC , mixed with gasoline alkilate aspen in 4 times for example gave good results on the traces of carbonne, disassembling exhaust on my old saws husqvarna guinea pig I have no trace of carbon?
I hate the subject but it’s really complicated
if one day you can test aspen 2 pre-mixed, I will read with great care
Thanks again Richard
@@sergep4965 I've got a sample case from Aspen at the shop. I'll try to test it soon. Merci!
What ratio would you recommend Saber in a 500i?
40:1 and the bearings, crank and top end will last damn near forever. It still burns super clean at that ratio as well. I've done some performance work for a customer with that same mix and his stuff looks better than anyone else on the inside.
@@richardflagg3084 Thank you Sir!
Always enjoy your videos Rich, louder for those in the back please….
You think Klotz is good enough to run 50:1 or should I stay at my 40:1 right now. Any advice is appreciated 🤙
Have you used the Canadian Stihl premium oil?
Nope. Not available in the southeast US
@@richardflagg3084 Shame you cannot get some to test, it seems very good.
I buy premixxed fuel and keep the saw air filter clean and avoid the bandwagon of a brand issues.
Recommend trying Maxima superM 🏁🏁 lower flashpoint mx bike oil but very very good in chainsaws. Better than any of that chainsaw oil and dominator.
Jonsered did fuel injected chainsaw in late 50s.. that model was called XD
Appreciate your sincere experience and observations Richard. Makes you wonder when or if a newer oil will come from STIHL. Take care!
JASO actually started as the 4 stroke engine oil approved for wet clutches.
You said it-you should not have to run your saw The way they say to better suit their Oil
For many years I was believing Stihl Ultra must be great or they wouldn’t sell it. Even the fact they extend your warranty when you purchase Ultra with a new machine put me in the mindset that Stihl believes it to be the best option. However, after watching some of Richard’s videos a while back made me question myself and start inspecting my saws. I’ve since stocked up on Amsoil Saber (even became a dealer lol). I’m probably not gonna go 100:1 but probably 50:1. Time will tell.
Same. I guess Stihl figured that there ok oil will make there product last long enough for the warranty period compared to some no name cheap oil that could eat up the machine.
That is probably what they are thinking out last warranty then sell another saw or repairing it.
@@timfunk5084 Thing is Ive used there stuff for almost 10 years with zero issues but recently switched to amsoil saber since It was a better value and conveniently also a better product which was a nice surprise.
Stihl doesn't make their own mix oil, as it's contracted out.
Regardless, it's still garbage when compared to other options. I've lost the top end on a MS260 and a Husky 372xpw because of the carbon.
Maybe it was a blanket contract for 20 years or something like that, but you are absolutely correct; it needs to be corrected.
Oh, and the 1952 Jonsered Raket XD was fuel injected, with an injector spraying fuel/air directly into the crankcase.
So the 500i is the first electronically metered fuel injected saw, but not the first fuel injection by 70 years.
If it's a mtronic there is no "running it wrong" the CPU should protect the powerhead, that's the whole point of fuel injection, etc. They smoke the operator's clothes limbing and suck the fuel from my experience.
oil is cheap compared to a new top end. i've used redline 2-stroke oil in all mine, yamaha rd400, mazda rx7(yes a rotary is a 2-stroke and premix is better than stock - injecting crankcase oil), and chain saws. peace of mind, mine anyway, no issues.
Well the “ultra guys that say” it looks perfectly fine. They are probably right. Doesn’t mean it won’t get worse 😂
Been several weeks. Time for another vid about Stihl Ultra. We get it. Don’t use it. Use Stihl High Performance instead.
Got some performance vids coming. 272, 462 and a 592.
The whole "you aint running it right" excuse doesn't hold any water in my book. I appreciate your videos in exposing this hyped up "premium" oil BS. Cheers mate.
If Stihl came out with a new oil to meet the latest standards, they would then have to explain why after all these years with the current blend they are changing to a better oil ( backing them selves into a corner). It's just easier to take the old lawyer adage, deny everything admit nothing! Problem solved!
Well said my friend!!!!
Great video!! All facts and truth.
How are you supposed to run it then? Lol
Rich!!!! You should really take one of those saws and cut that Christmas tree down%@$@%@^
Gonna have a proper burial for that thing shortly.
Lots of good information here. 😎
Kohler and Walker mowers now use Amsoil maybe Stihl should listen to their customers and scrap ultra which is Spectrum who the hell is Spectrum??
Have some sales guy tell a man running 🏃 equipment for 28 years example me that I'm not running it rite ,is ridiculous. It's like the sales guys behind the counter when you bring in something to get work orvfixed they always have say something or get defensive. As if lol 😂
Poor soldier haha
Another good video on that crap oil. I’m just glad I’ve never run it. 40/1 red Armour for my saws you can still see the rings on top of the pistons from factory black can be taken of with q tip.
I've been around long enough to know some guys simply don't mix their fuel carefully. They use crappy old low octane fuel thats been in a can God knows how long.
They don't clean their air filters often enough, they neglect to lubricate the clutch bearing, running blunt chain etc. End result, premature failure and they need to blame something....
Arborists are some of the worst abusers of saws. I would never buy a saw from one. It'll be shot to shit.
American gas has to much ethanol in it. That doesn't help much either.
I would tell your tree companies to call Amsoil or Shaeffer l wouldn't waste my time talking to the Stihl reps the Germans are all smarter than we are if l had to use Ultra l would retire lf you have carbon in the engine use Echo Red Armor to clean it up it works not sure about the lubricant factor 👍👍
Guess stihl is just riding the wave as long as possible. Just surprised so many loyal customers can't see anything bad about anything with a Stihl logo!
I reached out to my Stihl rep today, he's aware of my channel and has seen the results. He said he's going to forward this to some more important people. I think I made a good unbiased case with reasonable questions and expectations. Time will tell......
@@richardflagg3084 sounds like a foot in the door. Thanks for doing what most of us dont/can't! With any luck, you may have set the wheel in motion😎
@@richardflagg3084 that should be interesting. 🧐🧐🧐🧐
@@richardflagg3084 I would love to hear about any updates/replies you get out of this. Thanks for putting in the work.
For some reason I like you and I trust what you say
The answer is even before you say it they look horrible they look like they’re full of nothing but deposits you gotta run that Amsoil