As for fixing fueling. In Australia we run staged injection when modifying GDI engines. Keep the OEM di, and stage in port injection. Just like toyota/Subaru do in the 86/BRZ. Also keeps the intake valves clean as well as the di injectors cool. Probably can't do it with holley efi🙄😅.
Ecoboosts don’t like to see added fuel tables, the fueling loop likes to pull fuel and force the port injectors to work more or it’ll just cut power. I’m working through this issue with a gen 1 ecoboost.
Being able to run big power through only direct injection is the 'holy grail' though - you can get much more aggressive with the engine build & tuning since the window for detonation is SIGNIFICANTLY shorter because obviously you only add the fuel into the cylinder when you want rather than as soon as the intake valve opens
Here’s the list to make power with LT 1. Aftermarket cam with a more aggressive pump lobe 2. VVT lock out block for the cam gear 3.LT4 HP pump/LT4 injectors (still only good for 750-775whp) 4. Meth kit duel nozzle big kit ( we made a extra 175whp using this to supliment fuel) 5. Fast intake / 102mm TB 6. A set of stock ported heads are so good They just flow insane
RICHARD, Would love to see ls1 5.7 content, big bang on this ls1 aluminum blocks see what breaks first etc, DYNOS , upgrades , vs 5.3 and 6.0, seems like iron blocks are your cup of tea, thanks, love the channel.
The problem is the ls1 is an old sports car engine, so they've a had the snot beaten out of them. It's in the same boat as the Nissan SR20, not a bad engine but they've all been driven hard and put away wet to the point that it's almost a waste of money to bother with them
@@unlisted9494 let's just say I agree to disagree, granted the 5.7 have their limitations as far boring them you can only hone them, I've had quite a few of them they're excellent engines, I also have 2000 C5 Corvette with hundred twenty thousand miles on it, and I put a Vortech Supercharger on it and I have gone as fast as 10.40 in a quarter mile at a hundred and thirty-two miles an hour, and yes of course like you said I beat the living hell out of it for over a year and there was more performance to be had of it but I decided to take the vortec supercharger out and give the car to my daughter still running strong and that is just but one example out of many 5.7 s that I've had.
@@mannyr.2756 operative word there is at the end, HAD. Like I say, they aren't a bad engine, but any more an ls1 costs as much as a 6.0/6.2. For the cost of an ls1 with a few bolt ons, you can have an ls3.
Hey richard in your very first clip on this video. When you did the na test looks like the nx system was leaking. You can see fuel coming out of the nozzle and when the throttle blade closes there is frost on it just like the 100 shot pull. Do you thing the nitrous was leaking and that's why it was such a high na numne.
I've been tuning on a 2014 l83 5.3 and I messed around with the cam timing, I've also found that fixing the injector timing table also helps, or seems to help according to data logs. Very cool to see you doing this! Excited to see all the results!
I love how the dog came into the picture and you never missed a beat, went strait to dog owner. Never got mad it came into the scene,just pure love ❤. Another reason I love your videos!
More, please! As someone else suggested, swap out the 5.3 intake and TB for the 6.2 version. There are quite a few videos on UA-cam of people doing this mod, but there are no dyno numbers to justify the change. Thank you for working so hard for us. By the way, the TPI videos are my fave. Former 88 Trans Am GTA owner here.
Hate to break it to you, but unless they really amp up development to racecar level stuff, the v8 will soon go by the wayside in favor of turbocharged smaller displacement engines
Un Listed nope. You understand they can just make v8's smaller right? You can have a small turbo v8 that will be comparable to a small turbo 4cyl. It all depends on the design goals of the engineers. V8's disappear when ICE engines disappear.
Again GREAT WORK Richard!..!.! Yes!!!!!.. I am so glad you have flourish the LSX Tech and Tune page I started years ago. I mention i started another DI LTx tech and tune. Pssst. LTg is the testbed for the DOHC v8 coming out in the Vette. I would like to send you some testing when that time comes. The DI and airmass/tq management is AWESOME!!.!.!. The reason TB not higher than 89.3% is due to conditions not being met by watchdog within ECM. It is a GEM when the bandaid is taken off!. Daily driver and track use is a dream!.. oh and excellent efficiency (mpg) JD
Stock LT1 fuel system tops out at about 550whp. Then you have to jump up to LT4 injectors and fuel pump and then that’s only really good to 750whp. And you can get about 850 with a good cam with the more aggressive lobe on the cam for the pump
@@rongravel4585 thanks. Add 15% for drivetrain losses so we're looking at about 625 at the crank? However, that's on an LT1, not an L83. Does GM use the same high pressure pump on these engines? Back in the day, they used the same in-tank fuel pump on every single tbi engine.. from the little 1 barrel tbi 1.0L 3 cylinder in geo metros all the way up to the 7.4L v8 dualies.
The 5.3 and 6.2 have different cam lobes. The pumps are the same and the injectors. And yea 15% is a good round about. It’s usally like 18% in a auto and 12-13% on a manual so a good round about is 15% pretty much covers everything Every combo robs a lil more or less power.
@@rongravel4585 I just made an appointment for my first chassis dyno test. I figured +25% drivetrain for my combination. I'd be thrilled to death with 450 to the wheels. It's from a 1993 4L80E and NP241 transfer case and a 14 bolt 9.5" rear axle. Old 4wd stuff is not as efficient as the newer or lighter stuff. I only have 400lbs/hr worth of injector so we'll see how far it takes me. One datalog was calling for 456.6lbs/hr. 114.2% duty cycle. It leaned out to 13.6:1. I limited my rpms to 5,252 so that won't happen again.
I absolutely enjoy each video you post Richard. My thoughts on the LT testing follow along the path of another suggestion....but move the L83 to 100% port injection. Just remove the DI pump and leave the injectors as blocking plugs.The LT already has a 58X timing set so the Holley would easily work, other than VVT. Also interesting would be to compare power output with a DI/port injected mix, with pure port to see the difference. Would learn a lot about the differences in the head design between LS and LT engines that way.
It would have been interesting to see the manifolds with the stock catted Y pipe vs the headers. I’d think the converters would be the main restriction there. It would be neat to see the stock air inlet vs a typical cai also. I’d love to see more ltx dyno testing!
Dual fueling. We do it at work. Let the direct injection do what it does and then add a fuel rail on each bank for port injection. Worked great for us.
Something I can say with confidence is that the heads on LS engines flow better than L83 heads. That’s the reason why the long tube headers did not make much difference on this set up. I would love to see the gains of just the heads then add the LTH again.
I think the gains we are seeing are from the direct injection cooling effect it has in the cylinder, The VVT, and the heat dissipation capability of the block. I have 2014 silverado with headers, 180thermostat, K&N CAÍ, oil catch can, and tune that made 327hp and 367 TQ at the wheels on 20x12 37” tires. This is at a mile above sea level. I can say that everyone around here uses E85.
Swap in the l86 intake manifold and throttle body. The stock heads could use a lot of opening on the exhaust runners to match a 1-7/8” header primary. Even the stock exhaust manifold ports are much larger than the exhaust outlet of the cylinder head.
My truck has a CAI with long tubes, 3" exhaust, x-pipe, and dual mufflers. Puts 356 whp and 383 tq. Picked up a bunch of power over factory dyno charts I've seen.
You might want to do a test of a stock LT1 cam swapped into the L83. I've done it, but it was done with headers, CAI, etc. I'd like to see what gains, if any, would be made with that cam only.
You can also add more fuel by adding port fuel injection on top of the direct injection. You'd pretty much need a whole second fuel system to do it, though, but that hasn't stopped OEMs like Ford and Toyota from doing it.
I can’t wait to see the evolution of the LT engine family. Just think how much better a later Gen LS is vs the first Gen. Well see some cool stuff in the future and we’ll have Richard to shows us the important info!
W5rr2nG I’d kinda like to see that. Just the difference between the two on an otherwise stock engine. I won’t mess with one till they’re as common in the junkyards as the previous LS based engines, but still entertaining to watch!
Slap a L86 (gen 5 6.2) intake and throttle body on a L83 (gen 5 5.3) and it's direct fit: plug and play. There is a piece of sound dampening foam under the L83 intake that must be either removed, or trimmed down to fit under the L86 intake. With that alone it is a17 HP gain. Your welcome.
I installed the 6.2 l86 non ported intake manifold and l86 throttle body with a CAI. Afm was disabled with 93 octane tune. Noticed a big difference on mid and top end. Truck is 2019 silverado LD l83.
Had a 2015 Sierra with this motor . Factory tuning made it a dog . Had it custom tuned . Helped alot . But It went through 3 variable oil pumps within 5 months and this was only @ 45000 miles . All covered under warranty but I got rid of the truck after that .
You need to change fuel injection timing, spark, and cam timing to see the gains from the headers. It’s a night and day difference. Also you need to do the l86 intake manifold/Tb swap as well. Huge gains with tuning. I wish it was like the fords where they’re DI and port injection. The port injection is where you’d make more power and the DI is for part throttle gas mileage and torque.
Way back when I turbocharged my 1.6 Suzuki, the tbi wouldn't flow enough fuel, so I built a megasquirt and grafted on 4 port injectors that would handle the boost chores kicking in at 1psi all the way to 10 psi, I got around 150 hp out of the little motor, so if you added a e85 aux injection system you should be able to get all the fuel you need
I’ve been a LS guy for 10-12 years now and just got my first LT1 gen V a couple weeks ago in a D1SC powered Camaro so this is great, I’m looking to learn as much about The Gen V stuff as possible
If you really pump the boost to L83 or any LT you might want to consider running port injection. The DI stuff gets stupid expensive towards 1000hp. The big boys are compounding high pressure pumps via a belt driven pump and the cost is stupid. Big injectors and big pumps can run 10k$ or more. You already have a Holley controller and all kinds of intake manifolds for the ls stuff so just buy a set of adapters for the ls intake manifolds. Send this thing to the moon. I have a 15 Silverado and have been running a turbo for two years now. DI cost is the biggest limiting factor in the LT engines. As always thank you for the videos.
It's been 6 months since you posted this video. Where are the follow up videos ? You can't just get us hooked and keep us waiting this long. You did a great job covering the LS platform over the years. Please start focusing on the LT platform. Its been out for 6 years now and it's about time someone can give us real dyno proven options for upgrades. Thanks and keep up the great work.
Cool. Really looking forward to more testing. I swapped an L83 and its been performing really well NA. Also using TSP Stage 1 cam with fuel lobe grind and cnc heads. Put a turbo on it this winter and Ill be tuning it within the next few weeks.
On my supercharged 4.3 the fmu wasn't enough. I ended up adding a NOS fuel side solenoid with a properly sized jet. It was triggered by a Hobbs adjustable pressure switch that came on based on my boost settings. Worked great until I was able to get the fuel system upgraded.
off the hop without having seen this vid yet....wild potential for these motors, fasterproms S10 has one of these twin turbo'd and made 800 to the tire with cam ported heads and stock intake. More importantly, stock HP side. DI is tunable cylinder pressure, thats the advantage over MPFI.
I LOVE the L83 in my 2014 Silverado. I have the airaid mit tube, modded airbox with an aem dryflow filter, muffler delete, tune and E85 and this thing rips! I smoke 14+ rams, tundras and even the older gen ecoboosts. The really cool thing about the flex fuel L83's is that even in the factory ECU they change from 355hp/383tq to 385/416 with just E85! They're fucking beasts on ole corn juice! Also for the headers I think what may be wrong is the smallish factory throttle body and intake. Swap that out with a L86 (6.2) intake manifold and throttle body or even better a ported TB or LT1 TB. They flow a LOT more air in and generally make some pretty good numbers even on a fairly stock L83.
Thanks Richard, as usual a very nice and informative presentation . I was thinking a closer comparison of LS base to LT base would have been comparing Gen IV LC9 to Gen V L83 since they are both 5.3 and both equipped with VVT. You could then have a fair idea on how much the Direct Injection + Higher Compression ratio + heads design + twisted valves would contribute to that power increase. Just an idea. Thanks again for the effort you go through. A fan from oversea :-)
Direct injection is what has held back ecoboost performance for quite a while, now that they're using direct and port injection together from the factory I'm curious to see what the added performance capabilities are. Especially upgrading the port injectors along with bigger turbos.
Michael Radelet would be neat to maybe switch the flange or something, or get them to work, to see if there is anything special about them. No gains from long tubes is strange in the V8 world
Shannon Sisk I’m sure it could be done. Other problem is the LT motors swapped intake and exhaust locations so the offsets would be off, but again if someonereally wanted to try it could be done. I put long tubes on my 14 L83 and noticed nothing other than more noise with the cats gone
When I pulled the stock manifolds off my L83 I noticed they are pretty good as is. The reason they didn't see much gain here is because they ran extensions off the stock manifolds. The stock Y pipe is also really good. The stock exhaust on the L83 trucks sucks though. The muffler is real restrictive and the flapper valve. Also it's a single pipe that necks down to 2.25 inch at the tail. That all being said. I did notice quite a bit of gain from going to headers and 3.5" exhaust on my 5.3 L83 truck. I had opened up the stock exhaust with a magnaflow muffler and cut out the flapper and picked up 2 mph at my 1000 ft test spot. The headers and 3.5 inch exhaust picked up another 3 mph. Doesn't really add up to the results in the video. But it did what it did so I'm not sure what the total deal was there.
blk95gsrt I had a magnaflow cat back on already when I swapped headers on. I didn’t notice much but that’s not real solid evidence. I went back to stock manifolds and y pipe because the speed engineering parts leaked at every joint
Cant you just find a way to run port injection and direct at the same time? Or maybe we can use the long block of the l86 with the ECU managment of a holley dominator with no direct injection. Just a ton of boost!. I smell the next big bang! LT edition!
Speaking of engine familys you like, I've always been curious about the weird v10 truck motors. The dodge magnum v10 and ford triton v10. Theoretically, if you've got more rods to push cylinder pressures into, you should be able to push more torque out of the engine! How much air could we shove into one of those motors to make power? Could we push one up to LS levels of power? 4 digits? An obscure engine big bang series would be a blast. I'd love to see turbos on weird old engines too, like what could you do with a GMC 305 v6 or 478 v6 for that matter?
I'll save you some time. Unless it's the viper v10 from the ram, all v10 truck motors are absolute hunks of dog shit. There's a reason you never see anyone modify them, even though they can be had for cheap. The Triton v10 alone is very likely the worst most unreliable engine ever put into a pickup truck. A cool one to look at though, is the v10 diesel VW used in some of their SUV'S.
He has done a couple videos with a late model hemi, but as much as I’d love to see a 305 v6 boosted, it’s just not practical. I bet over 90% of them have already been melted down, I’ve only seen one big gmc v6 in person, and they have zero aftermarket support, every single part has to be one off custom built, not mr holdener’s strong suit. If it can’t be grabbed off a shelf and slapped on, it’s not on his to do list.
I would add a separate 45 psi fuel system with a set of port injectors. Run the stock high pressure stuff, then when you need more power say from boost, kick in the port injection. So run both systems in parallel for high outputs.
These engines are so impressive. I've driven one every day since mid 2014. The mileage is hard to believe! And the power is all there for sure. I've seen the cylinder heads and they are offset valves and just look like a race design. Would love to swap one into a car one day. With the right cam and tune this thing will burn it down!
The cool thing about direct injection if you need more fuel you can run a fuel rail style intake and run electric and manual fuel systems at the same time
At the shop I worked at we did a ton of the new LT/LT4 stuff and man they are far superior to a LS and make a ton of power. But 1. The DI sucks. After just 3000 miles the intake valves are covered in carbon. Like bad I would remove the crank case vents from the intake and add meth injection even on a NA build just to keep the valves clean. 2. Putting a LT4 pump/injectors on a LT1 to make power is needed for anything over 600hp really. But we supplemented fuel with a meth kit instead of port injection because of the cost. But the LT is a far superior engine to the LS. There amazing We made 713rwhp in a 2018 camaro 6.2 with sick heads cam port injection N/A. You can’t do that with a LS. Unless it’s a 454. Lol
I was just about to ask you for some Gen V testing.... and there you go. Greg Bannish had some really interesting comments about the criticality of DI injector flow/spray pattern design compared to what you can get away with on port injection. Sounds like there may be a bit of a development curve to overcome on DI unless you intend to add secondary port injectors.
The solution is a perhaps slightly more convoluted fuel system. Port and direct like other OEM's(TOYOTA) do to eliminate intake valve deposits, add extra fuel when needed and keep emissions at bay. People running boost on DI engines have applied the aforementioned fueling solution with good results.👌🏻👍🏻😎
PLEASE do more on the lt1 I have a whipple 2.9 l on a 2018 and would love some answers on fuel limits and possible power limits on stock pistons.Thanks for your hard work!
Thinking of doing this but just using an L86 block and ordering the L8T crank with forged rod n pistons for an all aluminum 400ci... Then send the heads heads porting run a TSP stage 3 cam that comes with the VVT data, headers and LT1 intake...use the swap pan and drop it in my 67 Camaro
Or take an L83 and bore it to 3.902 like many do the LH6 5.3l but instead of making a 383ci like a gen IV again use the L8T forged crank and make a 370ci...that crank also doesn't have snout reduction its solid out to the end and keywayed like an LSA also 8 counterweights...damn good crank for $550
VERY cool stuff. it's amazing how much more power can be created from the same displacement....... it would be REALLY COOL to see the same back to back with a cam only swap on both mills...... maybe first using two camshafts as close to the same spec as possible (lift, duration @.50 etc...)and then a cam that is designed for that little bit extra I'm sure you can get from the LT platform over the LS to see how much more itll go
Looks like the factory is going to do everything ! Do to make more power we will have to spend ton of cash, for any gain! And what about BOOST! Can the injectors supply any more fuel? Will it require adding port injection for more fuel?
Hi Richard, great video as usual. I have an L83 and I am shopping for a cam. Some of the variables that keep popping up is the "DOD delete, the cam phasing limiter as well as the +10/+32 fuel lobe. It would be awesome if you could weight in on the best way to go and why. Thanks keep up the great work.
these truck motors were limited to 85% throttle position in the motor to prevent them from making more torque than the transmission could handle, or performing better than the vettes and camaros.
You have to route the headers the way the company makes them. If forward facing headers made more hp . Gm an the headers company's would make them that way it's made to flow exhaust gases the way the headers was made. I gave you a hard time on the other video when you was complaining bout hp numbers on a lsx motor but this video an many more are good keep it up.
freakun Far Out Mr. Holdener! now i'm really starting to appreciate the simplistic yet powerful LS's. already did, but now really am. if i wanted a direct injected variable valve V8 street rodder/driver, i would also want the possibility of mild cam for cruise economy like a V-Tech or the new Hyundai CVVC. i'm just not a fan of mpgs under 18 on the freeway and under 12 in town. it's 2020 after all, and i know how to make high mpgs AND power both, but can't with an LS or LT(yet), but still would pick a 5.3 or 4.7 and pump it up to get the best i can get.
How long does it last? Trucks are very expensive, they are practical when they last, small engines have to work harder, so they don't last as long. There is a different requirement between a work horse, a pleasure horse, and a race horse. Right tool for the job, right materials and workmanship for longevity.
pick up LT4 HP pump and injectors. They're not terribly expensive. Aftermarket cams have bigger pump lobes. fasterproms got an L83 to over 800 whp (dynojet).
Richard, I appreciate the knowledge & experience provided in your videos and have learned a lot from watching your channel. I own a 2015 5.3L (L83) Chevy Silverado CCSB that has a CAI, 1-7/8 lt headers and 3” true dual exhaust. Do you have any suggestions for an aggressive sounding, dependable daily driver cam that will increase torque and performance near the bottom of the power band? I don’t typically do any heavy hauling or towing, just looking for low end performance. Also, do you have any other suggestions such as swapping out the stock 3.42 gears for 3.73s, 4.10s,....to aid in improving my lower end torque and throttle response while still remaining drivable on the highway?
How about a VVT cam? Do they have any for DI engines yet? Swap in an LT4 or LT5 pump and injectors? Can you piggyback port injection to cover the fuel needs for boost? Lots of possible videos here!
How about a porting by the numbers type of deal. Do one thing at a time and see if it picks up any power. Say just do the exhaust ports first and valve job. And whatever cams? So on and so on
The l83 stock injection system will hold up for a lot of power. The cams you can get fuel lope for %10 and %32. Most guys just do ls1 or lt4 injectors and pumps that will get them to 800+ rwhp
This L83 stuff is riveting. The thing out does a lot of other motors.
L83 looking more boost able than previous aluminum 5.3s. Bigger 12mm head bolts vs. 11mm, piston oil squirters, bigger oil pump.
Excellent! Glad to see some LT content. Looking forward to the L83 cam swap.
How is your build coming along? Your truck must be at about 700hp by now.
@@LODelgado01 I've got a pile of parts, but haven't had time to work on it.
Looking forward to some new content. Keep up the nice work.👍
Right lol...
@@n5yiz what's your name on FB brother
As for fixing fueling. In Australia we run staged injection when modifying GDI engines.
Keep the OEM di, and stage in port injection. Just like toyota/Subaru do in the 86/BRZ. Also keeps the intake valves clean as well as the di injectors cool. Probably can't do it with holley efi🙄😅.
We are doing the same thing here with the EcoBoost engine's
This is already being done and there are kits developed with a holley ecu and port injectors for our genV V8
Ecoboosts don’t like to see added fuel tables, the fueling loop likes to pull fuel and force the port injectors to work more or it’ll just cut power. I’m working through this issue with a gen 1 ecoboost.
@@RadDadisRad have you had any luck with the DW injectors with xdi-60 pump
Being able to run big power through only direct injection is the 'holy grail' though - you can get much more aggressive with the engine build & tuning since the window for detonation is SIGNIFICANTLY shorter because obviously you only add the fuel into the cylinder when you want rather than as soon as the intake valve opens
Here’s the list to make power with LT
1. Aftermarket cam with a more aggressive pump lobe
2. VVT lock out block for the cam gear
3.LT4 HP pump/LT4 injectors (still only good for 750-775whp)
4. Meth kit duel nozzle big kit ( we made a extra 175whp using this to supliment fuel)
5. Fast intake / 102mm TB
6. A set of stock ported heads are so good They just flow insane
So the meth kit gained that much power on a NA setup?
@@jchydeboy8420 nitrous
RICHARD, Would love to see ls1 5.7 content, big bang on this ls1 aluminum blocks see what breaks first etc, DYNOS , upgrades , vs 5.3 and 6.0, seems like iron blocks are your cup of tea, thanks, love the channel.
The problem is the ls1 is an old sports car engine, so they've a had the snot beaten out of them. It's in the same boat as the Nissan SR20, not a bad engine but they've all been driven hard and put away wet to the point that it's almost a waste of money to bother with them
@@unlisted9494 let's just say I agree to disagree, granted the 5.7 have their limitations as far boring them you can only hone them, I've had quite a few of them they're excellent engines, I also have 2000 C5 Corvette with hundred twenty thousand miles on it, and I put a Vortech Supercharger on it and I have gone as fast as 10.40 in a quarter mile at a hundred and thirty-two miles an hour, and yes of course like you said I beat the living hell out of it for over a year and there was more performance to be had of it but I decided to take the vortec supercharger out and give the car to my daughter still running strong and that is just but one example out of many 5.7 s that I've had.
@@mannyr.2756 operative word there is at the end, HAD. Like I say, they aren't a bad engine, but any more an ls1 costs as much as a 6.0/6.2. For the cost of an ls1 with a few bolt ons, you can have an ls3.
Hey richard in your very first clip on this video. When you did the na test looks like the nx system was leaking. You can see fuel coming out of the nozzle and when the throttle blade closes there is frost on it just like the 100 shot pull. Do you thing the nitrous was leaking and that's why it was such a high na numne.
that was just residual fuel from a previous nitrous hit-the na run didn't actually have the nozzle in place.
I've been tuning on a 2014 l83 5.3 and I messed around with the cam timing, I've also found that fixing the injector timing table also helps, or seems to help according to data logs.
Very cool to see you doing this! Excited to see all the results!
Yeah the injection timing makes the most difference with torque across the board. It loves all the air you can give it.
Wow... yet ANOTHER banger! Coffee and RH knowledge @5am... life is good
I love how the dog came into the picture and you never missed a beat, went strait to dog owner. Never got mad it came into the scene,just pure love ❤. Another reason I love your videos!
they are always with me
Finally got some Info on the new stuff so the 2014 6.2l l86 build I'm doing should be fun thanks Richard
Can't wait to see the L83 on boost!!!
Going to be a beast! Can't wait for a standalone system like the Terminator.
More, please!
As someone else suggested, swap out the 5.3 intake and TB for the 6.2 version. There are quite a few videos on UA-cam of people doing this mod, but there are no dyno numbers to justify the change.
Thank you for working so hard for us.
By the way, the TPI videos are my fave. Former 88 Trans Am GTA owner here.
Great stuff. The LT's are definitely bad dude's. I'm really looking forward to more of Your tests on them, and apparently so is Milo..
That engine is impressive I love to see what's going to be coming in the next 10 years or so for a performance potential
Kevin Mallender That is a good point yip
Hate to break it to you, but unless they really amp up development to racecar level stuff, the v8 will soon go by the wayside in favor of turbocharged smaller displacement engines
Un Listed No it won't, v8's will start disappearing when electric vehicles become mainstream
@@lucysmith4242 it's 100% related to emissions. V8's will soon go the way of the v12.
Un Listed nope. You understand they can just make v8's smaller right? You can have a small turbo v8 that will be comparable to a small turbo 4cyl. It all depends on the design goals of the engineers. V8's disappear when ICE engines disappear.
Again GREAT WORK Richard!..!.!
Yes!!!!!.. I am so glad you have flourish the LSX Tech and Tune page I started years ago. I mention i started another DI LTx tech and tune.
Pssst. LTg is the testbed for the DOHC v8 coming out in the Vette. I would like to send you some testing when that time comes.
The DI and airmass/tq management is AWESOME!!.!.!. The reason TB not higher than 89.3% is due to conditions not being met by watchdog within ECM. It is a GEM when the bandaid is taken off!. Daily driver and track use is a dream!.. oh and excellent efficiency (mpg)
JD
thnx-should I post in the new tech and tune as well?
Sooooo excited for this series of testing on the DI !!!
@richardholdner when it's time for more fuel, the LT4 hpfp and injectors are an option.
Looks like an awesome engine. Can't wait to see boost and I'm interested to see how far the stock fuel system can go before leaning out.
Stock LT1 fuel system tops out at about 550whp. Then you have to jump up to LT4 injectors and fuel pump and then that’s only really good to 750whp. And you can get about 850 with a good cam with the more aggressive lobe on the cam for the pump
@@rongravel4585 thanks. Add 15% for drivetrain losses so we're looking at about 625 at the crank? However, that's on an LT1, not an L83. Does GM use the same high pressure pump on these engines? Back in the day, they used the same in-tank fuel pump on every single tbi engine.. from the little 1 barrel tbi 1.0L 3 cylinder in geo metros all the way up to the 7.4L v8 dualies.
The 5.3 and 6.2 have different cam lobes. The pumps are the same and the injectors. And yea 15% is a good round about. It’s usally like 18% in a auto and 12-13% on a manual so a good round about is 15% pretty much covers everything Every combo robs a lil more or less power.
@@rongravel4585 I just made an appointment for my first chassis dyno test. I figured +25% drivetrain for my combination. I'd be thrilled to death with 450 to the wheels. It's from a 1993 4L80E and NP241 transfer case and a 14 bolt 9.5" rear axle. Old 4wd stuff is not as efficient as the newer or lighter stuff. I only have 400lbs/hr worth of injector so we'll see how far it takes me. One datalog was calling for 456.6lbs/hr. 114.2% duty cycle. It leaned out to 13.6:1. I limited my rpms to 5,252 so that won't happen again.
You should see how these do on e85 I have a friend that has a tune only single cab Silverado in the 12s. Pretty impressive for a stock cam!
No kidding?
@@grumpysteelman yes
I absolutely enjoy each video you post Richard. My thoughts on the LT testing follow along the path of another suggestion....but move the L83 to 100% port injection. Just remove the DI pump and leave the injectors as blocking plugs.The LT already has a 58X timing set so the Holley would easily work, other than VVT. Also interesting would be to compare power output with a DI/port injected mix, with pure port to see the difference. Would learn a lot about the differences in the head design between LS and LT engines that way.
and piston design
keep the l83 stuff coming! Good stuff!!
25yrs in the dyno room and still excited. 👍
It would have been interesting to see the manifolds with the stock catted Y pipe vs the headers. I’d think the converters would be the main restriction there. It would be neat to see the stock air inlet vs a typical cai also. I’d love to see more ltx dyno testing!
Dual fueling. We do it at work. Let the direct injection do what it does and then add a fuel rail on each bank for port injection. Worked great for us.
Something I can say with confidence is that the heads on LS engines flow better than L83 heads. That’s the reason why the long tube headers did not make much difference on this set up. I would love to see the gains of just the heads then add the LTH again.
I don't think the 706 heads flow more than the L83
I think the gains we are seeing are from the direct injection cooling effect it has in the cylinder, The VVT, and the heat dissipation capability of the block. I have 2014 silverado with headers, 180thermostat, K&N CAÍ, oil catch can, and tune that made 327hp and 367 TQ at the wheels on 20x12 37” tires. This is at a mile above sea level. I can say that everyone around here uses E85.
Thank you for this video! I currently have a Silverado with the L83 engine. I’m adding L86 intake Manifold, headers, nitrous and converter!!
Just stock it in an f150 lol, it's a shame the Silverado is so much heavier when it has the engine you really want.
@@unlisted9494 not really "so much" heavier.. The f150 was >200lbs heavier then dropped ~300 with the aluminum body..
Swap in the l86 intake manifold and throttle body. The stock heads could use a lot of opening on the exhaust runners to match a 1-7/8” header primary. Even the stock exhaust manifold ports are much larger than the exhaust outlet of the cylinder head.
Richard Gwatney performance has made some excellent power gains with a L86 intake and throttle body on the L83 engine along with LT headers.
My truck has a CAI with long tubes, 3" exhaust, x-pipe, and dual mufflers. Puts 356 whp and 383 tq. Picked up a bunch of power over factory dyno charts I've seen.
You might want to do a test of a stock LT1 cam swapped into the L83. I've done it, but it was done with headers, CAI, etc. I'd like to see what gains, if any, would be made with that cam only.
L83 made more power and was running full accessories, impressive.
How about show us how to install one of the removed LT4 superchargers on the L83. They can be picked up pretty cheap.
You can also add more fuel by adding port fuel injection on top of the direct injection. You'd pretty much need a whole second fuel system to do it, though, but that hasn't stopped OEMs like Ford and Toyota from doing it.
I can’t wait to see the evolution of the LT engine family. Just think how much better a later Gen LS is vs the first Gen. Well see some cool stuff in the future and we’ll have Richard to shows us the important info!
Put a 6.2 intake on it for your max effort 5.3 guys
W5rr2nG I’d kinda like to see that. Just the difference between the two on an otherwise stock engine. I won’t mess with one till they’re as common in the junkyards as the previous LS based engines, but still entertaining to watch!
Cooper Boehm dude, they're dirt cheap brand new from GM. Who needs a junk yard swap? And they do make a good difference even on a fairly stock L83
Any dyno results with intake swap
Slap a L86 (gen 5 6.2) intake and throttle body on a L83 (gen 5 5.3) and it's direct fit: plug and play. There is a piece of sound dampening foam under the L83 intake that must be either removed, or trimmed down to fit under the L86 intake. With that alone it is a17 HP gain. Your welcome.
I installed the 6.2 l86 non ported intake manifold and l86 throttle body with a CAI. Afm was disabled with 93 octane tune. Noticed a big difference on mid and top end. Truck is 2019 silverado LD l83.
Had a 2015 Sierra with this motor . Factory tuning made it a dog . Had it custom tuned . Helped alot . But It went through 3 variable oil pumps within 5 months and this was only @ 45000 miles . All covered under warranty but I got rid of the truck after that .
Also, keep up the good work. Offer still stands on the ported LT1 intake if you wanna try it.
You need to change fuel injection timing, spark, and cam timing to see the gains from the headers. It’s a night and day difference. Also you need to do the l86 intake manifold/Tb swap as well. Huge gains with tuning. I wish it was like the fords where they’re DI and port injection. The port injection is where you’d make more power and the DI is for part throttle gas mileage and torque.
Glad to finally see the l83 on your Channel a lot of folks really going to be interested in this motor
Great job Richard! ... Already testing the next generation of LS power. Boldly going where no-one has gone before!! ... sorry couldn't resist.
I think the compression plays a big roll in the power gains everywhere
Way back when I turbocharged my 1.6 Suzuki, the tbi wouldn't flow enough fuel, so I built a megasquirt and grafted on 4 port injectors that would handle the boost chores kicking in at 1psi all the way to 10 psi, I got around 150 hp out of the little motor, so if you added a e85 aux injection system you should be able to get all the fuel you need
Man! I loved to see what happens with the cam upgrades! This is an epic engine!
I’ve been a LS guy for 10-12 years now and just got my first LT1 gen V a couple weeks ago in a D1SC powered Camaro so this is great, I’m looking to learn as much about The Gen V stuff as possible
If you really pump the boost to L83 or any LT you might want to consider running port injection. The DI stuff gets stupid expensive towards 1000hp. The big boys are compounding high pressure pumps via a belt driven pump and the cost is stupid. Big injectors and big pumps can run 10k$ or more. You already have a Holley controller and all kinds of intake manifolds for the ls stuff so just buy a set of adapters for the ls intake manifolds. Send this thing to the moon. I have a 15 Silverado and have been running a turbo for two years now. DI cost is the biggest limiting factor in the LT engines. As always thank you for the videos.
Yes. Add port injection to supplement the direct injection when it reaches its fueling limit.
It's been 6 months since you posted this video. Where are the follow up videos ? You can't just get us hooked and keep us waiting this long. You did a great job covering the LS platform over the years. Please start focusing on the LT platform. Its been out for 6 years now and it's about time someone can give us real dyno proven options for upgrades. Thanks and keep up the great work.
Cool. Really looking forward to more testing. I swapped an L83 and its been performing really well NA. Also using TSP Stage 1 cam with fuel lobe grind and cnc heads. Put a turbo on it this winter and Ill be tuning it within the next few weeks.
Actually we do see some gains going with long tube headers on the L83 , usually 10-15 rwhp .
On my supercharged 4.3 the fmu wasn't enough. I ended up adding a NOS fuel side solenoid with a properly sized jet. It was triggered by a Hobbs adjustable pressure switch that came on based on my boost settings. Worked great until I was able to get the fuel system upgraded.
off the hop without having seen this vid yet....wild potential for these motors, fasterproms S10 has one of these twin turbo'd and made 800 to the tire with cam ported heads and stock intake. More importantly, stock HP side. DI is tunable cylinder pressure, thats the advantage over MPFI.
Richard Holdener for President! Definitely gets my vote! Awesome stuff your doing man! keep up the great work!!
I LOVE the L83 in my 2014 Silverado. I have the airaid mit tube, modded airbox with an aem dryflow filter, muffler delete, tune and E85 and this thing rips! I smoke 14+ rams, tundras and even the older gen ecoboosts. The really cool thing about the flex fuel L83's is that even in the factory ECU they change from 355hp/383tq to 385/416 with just E85! They're fucking beasts on ole corn juice!
Also for the headers I think what may be wrong is the smallish factory throttle body and intake. Swap that out with a L86 (6.2) intake manifold and throttle body or even better a ported TB or LT1 TB. They flow a LOT more air in and generally make some pretty good numbers even on a fairly stock L83.
Thanks Richard, as usual a very nice and informative presentation . I was thinking a closer comparison of LS base to LT base would have been comparing Gen IV LC9 to Gen V L83 since they are both 5.3 and both equipped with VVT.
You could then have a fair idea on how much the Direct Injection + Higher Compression ratio + heads design + twisted valves would contribute to that power increase. Just an idea. Thanks again for the effort you go through. A fan from oversea :-)
That was impressive HP with all the accessories on the dyno vs the lm7 and lq4 no accessories
Damn. Factory stuff from everyone in general is coming pretty damn optimized for what they're trying to do though lol
Direct injection is what has held back ecoboost performance for quite a while, now that they're using direct and port injection together from the factory I'm curious to see what the added performance capabilities are. Especially upgrading the port injectors along with bigger turbos.
It's held back SOME of the ecoboost engines. The 2.3 was mostly held back by being a shitty 20 year old Mazda engine lol
That is strange that headers didn’t do much. Maybe test the LT stock manifolds on a LM7 ?
Shannon Sisk they are a different bolt pattern
Michael Radelet would be neat to maybe switch the flange or something, or get them to work, to see if there is anything special about them. No gains from long tubes is strange in the V8 world
Shannon Sisk I’m sure it could be done. Other problem is the LT motors swapped intake and exhaust locations so the offsets would be off, but again if someonereally wanted to try it could be done.
I put long tubes on my 14 L83 and noticed nothing other than more noise with the cats gone
When I pulled the stock manifolds off my L83 I noticed they are pretty good as is. The reason they didn't see much gain here is because they ran extensions off the stock manifolds. The stock Y pipe is also really good. The stock exhaust on the L83 trucks sucks though. The muffler is real restrictive and the flapper valve. Also it's a single pipe that necks down to 2.25 inch at the tail. That all being said. I did notice quite a bit of gain from going to headers and 3.5" exhaust on my 5.3 L83 truck. I had opened up the stock exhaust with a magnaflow muffler and cut out the flapper and picked up 2 mph at my 1000 ft test spot. The headers and 3.5 inch exhaust picked up another 3 mph. Doesn't really add up to the results in the video. But it did what it did so I'm not sure what the total deal was there.
blk95gsrt I had a magnaflow cat back on already when I swapped headers on. I didn’t notice much but that’s not real solid evidence. I went back to stock manifolds and y pipe because the speed engineering parts leaked at every joint
Cant you just find a way to run port injection and direct at the same time? Or maybe we can use the long block of the l86 with the ECU managment of a holley dominator with no direct injection. Just a ton of boost!. I smell the next big bang! LT edition!
Speaking of engine familys you like, I've always been curious about the weird v10 truck motors. The dodge magnum v10 and ford triton v10. Theoretically, if you've got more rods to push cylinder pressures into, you should be able to push more torque out of the engine! How much air could we shove into one of those motors to make power? Could we push one up to LS levels of power? 4 digits? An obscure engine big bang series would be a blast. I'd love to see turbos on weird old engines too, like what could you do with a GMC 305 v6 or 478 v6 for that matter?
Good luck with him doing anything with other engine family's. He seriously needs to rename his channel to the GM and LS engine show.
I'll save you some time. Unless it's the viper v10 from the ram, all v10 truck motors are absolute hunks of dog shit. There's a reason you never see anyone modify them, even though they can be had for cheap. The Triton v10 alone is very likely the worst most unreliable engine ever put into a pickup truck.
A cool one to look at though, is the v10 diesel VW used in some of their SUV'S.
He has done a couple videos with a late model hemi, but as much as I’d love to see a 305 v6 boosted, it’s just not practical. I bet over 90% of them have already been melted down, I’ve only seen one big gmc v6 in person, and they have zero aftermarket support, every single part has to be one off custom built, not mr holdener’s strong suit. If it can’t be grabbed off a shelf and slapped on, it’s not on his to do list.
I would add a separate 45 psi fuel system with a set of port injectors. Run the stock high pressure stuff, then when you need more power say from boost, kick in the port injection. So run both systems in parallel for high outputs.
Just like making power in a new common rail style diesel ... get your check book ready for pumps and injectors
You can always add port injection
Long tube headers ,intake , jet performance thorttle body. With e85. Ac delco irdium plugs with taylor 10.4 wires make some power
These engines are so impressive. I've driven one every day since mid 2014. The mileage is hard to believe! And the power is all there for sure. I've seen the cylinder heads and they are offset valves and just look like a race design. Would love to swap one into a car one day. With the right cam and tune this thing will burn it down!
The cool thing about direct injection if you need more fuel you can run a fuel rail style intake and run electric and manual fuel systems at the same time
At the shop I worked at we did a ton of the new LT/LT4 stuff and man they are far superior to a LS and make a ton of power. But
1. The DI sucks. After just 3000 miles the intake valves are covered in carbon. Like bad
I would remove the crank case vents from the intake and add meth injection even on a NA build just to keep the valves clean.
2. Putting a LT4 pump/injectors on a LT1 to make power is needed for anything over 600hp really. But we supplemented fuel with a meth kit instead of port injection because of the cost.
But the LT is a far superior engine to the LS. There amazing
We made 713rwhp in a 2018 camaro 6.2 with sick heads cam port injection N/A. You can’t do that with a LS. Unless it’s a 454. Lol
Soon to be #1. motor being picked up everywhere the L83.
I was just about to ask you for some Gen V testing.... and there you go. Greg Bannish had some really interesting comments about the criticality of DI injector flow/spray pattern design compared to what you can get away with on port injection. Sounds like there may be a bit of a development curve to overcome on DI unless you intend to add secondary port injectors.
The solution is a perhaps slightly more convoluted fuel system. Port and direct like other OEM's(TOYOTA) do to eliminate intake valve deposits, add extra fuel when needed and keep emissions at bay.
People running boost on DI engines have applied the aforementioned fueling solution with good results.👌🏻👍🏻😎
Fuck yeah LT1 videos in the works
I wish those would be cheaper in some time, right now even LQ9 is much more affordable. Thx for the video! ✊
Good Video
i have a 2018 tahoe with L83
with your Dyno Run Stock Baseline @ 400HP what Fuel were you USING ?? E85
PLEASE do more on the lt1 I have a whipple 2.9 l on a 2018 and would love some answers on fuel limits and possible power limits on stock pistons.Thanks for your hard work!
Can you make a video about spark plug GAP vs boost vs N/A. Love your videos❤💪
for boost put gap down near .020
I really want to see the new 6.6L DI (gas) truck motor. It's replacing the 6.0, after all.
id love to see you get your hands on some 4th gen hemis and do a big bang
THE ENGINE MASTERS GUY JUST RAN ONE-A 5.7L-IT WAS IMPRESSIVE
Dang jumped up to over 600 ft/lbs there for a second
love dat spike
@@richardholdener1727 Isn't that an artificial number caused by the brake on the dyno responding to a sudden surge in RPM?
@@ETicketM So what are you saying, that the lift the front of the car in Fast and The Furious when they hit the nitrous isn't real? :O)
@@ETicketM it’ll do the same thing to your torque converter.
L8T 6.6 would be an amazing unit to dyno... 400CI DI 10.8:1 iron block.
But you'll have a bit to work with for a while with L83's and L86's
Thinking of doing this but just using an L86 block and ordering the L8T crank with forged rod n pistons for an all aluminum 400ci...
Then send the heads heads porting run a TSP stage 3 cam that comes with the VVT data, headers and LT1 intake...use the swap pan and drop it in my 67 Camaro
Or take an L83 and bore it to 3.902 like many do the LH6 5.3l but instead of making a 383ci like a gen IV again use the L8T forged crank and make a 370ci...that crank also doesn't have snout reduction its solid out to the end and keywayed like an LSA also 8 counterweights...damn good crank for $550
I’d like to see a 6.2 lt1 with a 88/96 vs racing turbo like I’m going to be running on my 16 camaro
XtremeDI makes some fuel system upgrades for this series of motors, pumps and injectors.
VERY cool stuff. it's amazing how much more power can be created from the same displacement....... it would be REALLY COOL to see the same back to back with a cam only swap on both mills...... maybe first using two camshafts as close to the same spec as possible (lift, duration @.50 etc...)and then a cam that is designed for that little bit extra I'm sure you can get from the LT platform over the LS to see how much more itll go
Looks like the factory is going to do everything ! Do to make more power we will have to spend ton of cash, for any gain! And what about BOOST! Can the injectors supply any more fuel? Will it require adding port injection for more fuel?
Awesome video!👍
Hi Richard, great video as usual. I have an L83 and I am shopping for a cam. Some of the variables that keep popping up is the "DOD delete, the cam phasing limiter as well as the +10/+32 fuel lobe. It would be awesome if you could weight in on the best way to go and why. Thanks keep up the great work.
these truck motors were limited to 85% throttle position in the motor to prevent them from making more torque than the transmission could handle, or performing better than the vettes and camaros.
I have an L-86 but chose to put my L-76 in my 69 Chevelle for just the reasons listed at the end!
YZFoFittie there’s no “-“ in the modern engine RPO codes
@@travisblack417 no-one-cares...
You have to route the headers the way the company makes them. If forward facing headers made more hp . Gm an the headers company's would make them that way it's made to flow exhaust gases the way the headers was made. I gave you a hard time on the other video when you was complaining bout hp numbers on a lsx motor but this video an many more are good keep it up.
Keep up the work. Could I maybe see how the 5.7 vortec stands up to the 5.3, carb setup for both of them, then maybe see which makes more on boost?
The 5.3, higher flowing heads
@@DarkLinkAD yeah but I guess I still want to see how much of a difference in power they are
@@DarkLinkAD This and way more power
freakun Far Out Mr. Holdener!
now i'm really starting to appreciate the simplistic yet powerful LS's.
already did, but now really am. if i wanted a direct injected variable valve V8 street rodder/driver, i would also want the possibility of mild cam for cruise economy like a V-Tech or the new Hyundai CVVC. i'm just not a fan of mpgs under 18 on the freeway and under 12 in town. it's 2020 after all, and i know how to make high mpgs AND power both, but can't with an LS or LT(yet), but still would pick a 5.3 or 4.7 and pump it up to get the best i can get.
Another classic video
How long does it last? Trucks are very expensive, they are practical when they last, small engines have to work harder, so they don't last as long. There is a different requirement between a work horse, a pleasure horse, and a race horse. Right tool for the job, right materials and workmanship for longevity.
Personally I blame squirrels
Don't fuk with squirrels Morty
was thinking of running one of these stock in a 3.0 bmw i have already with a 350 chevy in it
the LT5 ecu already controls DI and PFI. the LT4 pump and injectors aren't expensive and will support 800+hp
pick up LT4 HP pump and injectors. They're not terribly expensive. Aftermarket cams have bigger pump lobes. fasterproms got an L83 to over 800 whp (dynojet).
I have two of these sitting that I'm planning on forging and adding port fuel too. I hope it rips
Richard, I appreciate the knowledge & experience provided in your videos and have learned a lot from watching your channel.
I own a 2015 5.3L (L83) Chevy Silverado CCSB that has a CAI, 1-7/8 lt headers and 3” true dual exhaust. Do you have any suggestions for an aggressive sounding, dependable daily driver cam that will increase torque and performance near the bottom of the power band? I don’t typically do any heavy hauling or towing, just looking for low end performance.
Also, do you have any other suggestions such as swapping out the stock 3.42 gears for 3.73s, 4.10s,....to aid in improving my lower end torque and throttle response while still remaining drivable on the highway?
I cant believe a 325 cubic inch production N/A engine can do 425 foot pounds of torque and 400hp. Very impressive
How about a VVT cam? Do they have any for DI engines yet? Swap in an LT4 or LT5 pump and injectors? Can you piggyback port injection to cover the fuel needs for boost? Lots of possible videos here!
How about a porting by the numbers type of deal. Do one thing at a time and see if it picks up any power. Say just do the exhaust ports first and valve job. And whatever cams? So on and so on
I’d like to see the gains using the l86 intake and TB as well.
The l83 stock injection system will hold up for a lot of power. The cams you can get fuel lope for %10 and %32. Most guys just do ls1 or lt4 injectors and pumps that will get them to 800+ rwhp