New Study on Twins: Half Went Vegan, Here Are the Results
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- Опубліковано 8 гру 2023
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Over 20 pairs of twins were randomized to a vegan diet or a healthier than average omnivorous diet and they measured insulin, weight, cholesterol, and more!
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Main Twin Study:
jamanetwork.com/journals/jama...
Data Used in HOMA-IR Calculations:
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
HOMA-IR standard deviation reference:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
Normal Distribution Calculator:
www.socscistatistics.com/util...
HOMA-IR Calculator:
www.mdcalc.com/calc/3120/homa...
14% of egg choline becomes TMAO: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
TMAO Mortality:
academic.oup.com/eurheartj/ar...
TMAO Causal to CVD:
www.frontiersin.org/articles/...
TMAO Kidney Scarring Causal:
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37730...
TMAO Kidney Mortality:
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37246...
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FOR THE NERDS who want to try running their own little study on the insulin resistance numbers, I have made a little video tutorial HERE! ua-cam.com/video/N9zYYABz1JI/v-deo.html
1. Create a Dummy Dataset here: www.socscistatistics.com/utilities/normaldistribution/default.aspx
- 4 Groups with these average HOMA-IR values: (vegan before: 2.8, vegan after: 2.3, meat before: 2.9, meat after 3.1)
- 21 entries for 21 twin sets
- Standard deviation of 1
Note: You can simply do 4 rounds without resetting and copy and paste them as one column
Or use my data set: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GgAKS6yfIUDWO37NImttilhk8p7CVDs4yqV4uph_3sU/edit#gid=0
2. Use PSPP Statistics Software Here: www.gnu.org/software/pspp/get.html
- Put data into PSPP, I used numbers for each group in column 1 and the HOMA-IR values in column 2.
- Numbers for each group: Vegan before = 1, vegan after = 2. meat before = 3, meat after = 4
- Analysis > Compare Means > Independent T-Test- Click "Define Groups" and compare 2 to 4 for an after comparison. Type 2 in box 1 and 4 in box 2.
- New window shows results, the relevant p-value is under "Sig." for significance on the right under the "T-Test for Equality of Means" section. (Not the first sig. for variance)
- If P
People need to like this comment so it gets bumped up.
You could try asking the authors to compute these values for the actual data set.
@@carl13579 no dude. It's already enough that he posted the video in a good easy to watch format. It's fine trust me.
@@Curtishigher Weird comment. As a journal article writer that works with statistics myself, I would welcome feedback of this sort. It would take the authors less than 5 minutes to compute the data. It's a tiny data set, and we are just talking about computing a ratio and then running that in their statistical package for significance.
I do pay particular attention to peps who say "Trust Me" @@Curtishigher
My wife and her sister are identical twins, and they are BOTH vegan since 2017 💚
so its your sister who has twins? so 3 or 4 of them...all vegan? it's as if all four of them thought in the same way...and they say us vegans arent in a cult! ha! ;)
@@CatrinaDaimonLee Sadly neither of my sisters are vegan. I said it's my wife and her sister who are.
❤
it is life changing once you grasp the concept!
Good choices. I’m a twin and went vegan but unfortunately my twin sister likes keto. She goes in and out of it. I’m concerned about her.
One really important point about this study is that the weight loss among vegans was entirely in the second half, when they had to provide their own food. Lots of other responses to this study (including from people I respect like NutritionMadeSImple) have said that it's quite possible the lower LDL for vegans could simply be a result of the additional weight loss. But that completely ignores the fact that LDL for vegans was even LOWER at the 4 week mark - when they hadn't lost any weight at all. Their LDL actually went UP between 4 & 8 weeks, which is when they lost those extra 3 lbs. So clearly the improvement in LDL in this particular study cannot simply be attributed to weight loss.
So good that you pointed this out! Indeed, the LDL improvements continued when they had not lost any extra weight. I was so annoyed by Nutrition made simple just dismissing the results as 'just causes by the weight loss', while at the same time mentioning that 'we don't know if the weight loss was from fat loss or muscle loss (if he doubts if it was fat loss, than this contradicts his first assumption about the positive results being caused by weight loss... because these results are never caused by muscle loss).
@@TangoMasterclassCom Nutrition Made Simple is the Jordan Peterson of nutrition. He has to be on the fence for viewership.
You're making the assumption that a lowering in LDL is a good thing and an increase is a bad thing. Which is false.
@@antebellum1776LDL is a factor to consider overall. I’m not buying the LDL doesn’t matter nonsense floating around
@@antebellum1776 LDL is the canary in the coal mine. There’s some LDL’s that are bad and some that are good but generally if you lower the whole number you are better off.
I want to see a study between a vegan diet (with all the vegan alternatives) VS a whole food plant-based diet.
vs. a 0-carb, entirely Carnivorous diet.
@@DanteLikesRock never gonna happen, if the masses find out carnivore is healthy its gonna be a bad look for the new world order
Yes, I’m on Whole Foods plant-based diet. we need studies analyzing it against the Mediterranean, standard junk feed vegan, and throw in carnivore yeah sure as well as keto.
A big piece is providing dietary advice on a continuing basis with strategies, such as setting up the environment for success by removing healthy foods and keeping them out of the house.
There’s some work to be done to get enough people to successfully switch to Whole Foods plant-based. Many people simply won’t even do it in studies, I bet.
If they do a study for about 5 years and see long term results then that would make a lot more sense. This is too short of a time
Agreed. But this looks very surprising. Perhaps they can do it for 6 months next time.
Vegan for the animals.
yes! (not for our health.🤡)
I wish that they would not include beyond neat products as they are high saturated fat and highly processed. I’d like to see studies on whole food plant based vegan diets.
Yeah three groups would've been nice. Triplet study next? I should mention that despite that Beyond Meat connection for one author, they didn't specify Beyond Meat products. They only mention that "Meat alternatives include tofu, tempeh, soy nuts, veggie burgers, etc." Who knows what those veggies burgers were unless you know somewhere the researchers said.
That would’ve been nice, but on the other hand, I feel like the plant based diet they used in the study was more accessible to people who don’t have the time to prepare three WFPB meals each day and/or aren’t as satisfied on that diet. And this just proves that you can still experience remarkable health benefits without having to subsist on quinoa and broccoli (I’m being facetious - I’m a big proponent of the WFPB diet).
Considering the results, it's actually pretty great they did a "regular" vegan study. I mean, it proves that even if you don't go all out healthwise and maybe "only" care for the animals, you still win!
If they had ruled out processed meat substitutes, that really would have been moving the goalposts. A “healithier” omnivore diet vs. an “ideal” vegan diet is not a very useful comparison, because few people will be able to sustain the ideal vegan diet.
Vegan for the animals, with beneficial health side effects as a bonus, should be the focus of vegan messaging. Simple substitutions will go a lot further than a 100% lifestyle and attitude change on the entire diet. After all, vegan is an ethos not a "diet"
For me the most interesting was the decrease in biological age... it's funny because I've been told by friends that I look young because of my "vegan skin' and it kind of proved there's something to that.
give it 5 years honey and then see how your skin and overall health will be. Be careful and consider other options because the vegan diet is a disaster waiting to happen when you adopt it for years. Do more research on the other side of the token and listen to real scientists specialized in biochemistry, nutrition and physiology, like professor Bart Kay, or better yet, listen to the people that quit the vegan diet and what their reasons were before you destroy your bone structure to the point of no return. It's better to know now and do some more research than to get hyped up about an appealing idea and screwing yourself in the process. This clown has no idea about what science is, and sadly enough, all doctors don't know anything about nutrition either!! Believe it or not. Just go to the source.
It's not what it seems to you my dear. Give it some time and you'll realize what you're doing to your body. I wish you well though!
Thanks for making this video
I 🫶🏼 you Mic! Thanks for all the work you do!
I loved the twin interview skits and how you used their data and calculated HOMA-IR and the standard deviation to improve the study and make more conclusions
How is that improving the study when it has nothing to do with it?
Appreciate the level of detail in your explanation!
Interesting that vegans have lower insulin resistance when one of the so called selling points of carnivore is that it keeps you from spiking insulin.
Higher insulin doesn't necessarily = insulin resistance. Insulin is a building hormone and when your body is repairing exceptionally well it will be elevated.
You cannot measure insulin resistance.
Not let's put some logic here.
What causes insulin to rise and why does it rise?
It a cellular response to protect the cells from over dose of sugar.
Now, what natural meat has carbs or sugars?
@@1st2nd43this is not true. To quote -god- I mean google:
Insulin helps blood sugar enter the body's cells so it can be used for energy.
Excess lipid accumulation may result in impaired insulin signaling through cell autonomous mechanisms, or through the induction of inflammation and the subsequent production of inflammatory cytokines by macrophages, which impair insulin action.
@@1st2nd43 insulin rises in response to protein as well. It acts as a building/repair facilitating hormone
@@kekethetoad correct, but in the context of health concerns, it's more of the concern of developing diabetes and so forth.
Eight weeks is nothing. Five years and you might have something.
The interesting thing is that the vegans were not even eating a particularly healthy diet, it had too much fat (38%), was still fairly low in fibre (33 g), and they still ate a fair amount of refined grains, and yet they still did much better than the omni diet.
if you eat nothing but whole plants, your fiber intake is around 60-70 grams. These people were eating a good amount of ultra processed vegan crap
Amazing. Fiber goes through undigested yet you somehow believe our body needs it! If we needed it so much why doesn't our body's absorb it and use it?
@SilverPaladin
Our body does use it.
It ferments fiber and creates short chain fatty acids
The omni diet wasn't great either.
Yet HDL decreased for plant-based eaters, and triglycerides increased.
I'd be worried about that more than LDL, especially since LDL is now inversely associated with all-cause-mortality.
@@Justinegallows when I ate corn there would be whole kernels of corn in my poo. That is one example. I have never seen a piece of meat sticking out my poo.
Would very much like an update on TMAO. Thanks for the good work
Thanks 🎉nice to hear your point of view 😊
Healthiest types of Flours ranked video? 🤔 If possible? ☺️
Super interesting studies in this video as always! 🤗
Thank you for always providing such valuable information!
sure, I'll answer for you.
None!
happy to help.
I was waiting for you to talk about the twins study! Listening in now! thank you!
Cool video, thanks. ❤
Great video Thanks!
I was hoping you would cover this because I knew you'd bring more to it. Thanks for another great video!
Of the 4 Beetles, only Paul McCartney (vegan) is still alive ... and ...touring.
Uhm ... no? Last thing I heard, Ringo Starr (two years older than McCartney, not vegan) was also alive - and touring.
Of the two dead ones, John Lennon was shot over 40 years ago, which can lead ... you know ... to premature death.
George Harrison died of lung cancer after decades of smoking heavily.
So, yeah, interesting "study" you got there; nearly as valid, unbiased and diagnostically conclusive as those that Mic keeps throwing at us.
John Lennon was murdered.
He eats dairy & eggs for he says he likes that. He is Vegetarian. He won't eat meat though.
Lennon was shot dead and Harrison was a smoker.
@@paullond7721 And Ringo Starr is still alive.
🌎 10 Random Reasons Why I’m Vegan - In An Infinitely Long List:
1 I’m vegan because when I read the Bible part that says “Thou Shalt Not Steal”, I came to realize that God also doesn’t want me to steal the freedom, family members, body parts, secretions or the right to live from dogs, pigs, cats, cows, chickens, turkeys, lambs, rabbits, or anyone if I don’t have to. 🌱
2. I’m vegan because I like to help the environment by not depleting the oceans of fish or to take the whales out, and force them to do tricks in swimming pools.🍉
3. I’m vegan because I don’t want to pay anyone to burn down the rain forests to grow crops for cows who we created in the first place. I’d rather that people not rape cows into existence to begin with. I’d rather eat the plants directly instead of filtering them through an innocent animal who doesn’t deserve to die. 🫐
4. I’m vegan because I don’t want to pay anyone to pin down mother cows & force them to be pregnant and then to kidnap their baby boy cow for the purpose of murdering them, just so people can steal their milk and sell it in stores to use for their taste pleasure. 🥦
5. I’m vegan because, I don’t feel right eating bacon, sausage or ham, because that means paying people in the pork industry to cut the tails, testicles & teeth off baby boy pigs & kill them at just 6 months old. I just don’t want anyone to do that to them. 🍌
6. I’m vegan because I don’t want to just say that I think animals have moral value; I also want to show it with my actions. 🐷
7. I’m vegan because if you were the victim, I’d also protect you. 🍑
8. I’m vegan because I don’t believe that anyone’s eating disorder is ever the animals’ fault. Whether someone is overweight or underweight, because of psychological trauma, essentially, these are merely THINKING disorders, which a therapist can help someone overcome. There is never a justification to kill an animal just because of one’s own erroneous thoughts. 🍆
9. I’m vegan because I learned that eating eggs is unnecessary and that the baby boy chicks are being suffocated with their brothers in large plastic bags or macerated in giant bloody blenders just because they will never grow up to be able to lay eggs. 🍏
10. I’m vegan because I believe in telling the truth, in learning, and in trying to undo the harm I did in the past and because, even though I will never be perfect, being vegan is such an easy way to do my best, to live my life in line with my own morals.🍇
Someone once said that the 10 commandments could be reduced to: " Don't be a dick to yourself and to others"
Your list could be reduced to:" Don't unnecessarily hurt other lifeforms or their environment"
I'm a vegan for my own selfish reasons: health. I like all the reasons you listed, but I have to admit none of them came into my decision. I call these reasons excellent 'collateral consequences' of me being a vegan. So I cannot take credit for thinking of them, but I do like the fact that I can check them off as things I do not do simply because I'm a vegan.
There are literally dietary guidelines in the Bible and they are not vegan. Thou shall not steal is not a dietary guideline. It specifically talks about which animals to eat and which ones not to eat.
You clearly don’t know the Bible.. God gave animals for food and they’re good to eat. He literally made his people give meat offerings..
11 you are vegan because you are awesome! 💚
once again, great video... and needing out with you of course. I just wanna know... where did you find all the weird stock twin footage?!? lol🤣
Your videos make me smile and laugh 😂☺️
You need to get out more.
@@lashedbutnotleashed1984And you need to get a life! 😂
@@lashedbutnotleashed1984you "going out" means leaving your basement room to go to the bathroom!
@@sirgaymeerkat1994 No. To me, "going out" means visiting other planets; which I have done many times. Jupiter is particularly nice this time of year.
Same! I also laugh at how ridiculous the conclusions he reaches are.
Do a five year study.
We do a five year study, you say do a 10 year study. We do a 10 year study, you say do a 25 year study. We do a 25 year study, you say do a lifetime study. We do a lifetime study, you say do a multi-lifetime study. We do a multi-lifetime study, you say do a 100 year study. Thing is, there are 100,000 of healthy vegans, even lifetime vegans, so we really don't need to.
Also would like an updated TMAO! As a researcher I can't help but feel a little disappointed that you didn't go into research yourself. We could always use more you know...
Yea, cholesterol is good for you. The higher the better. Repairs damage and promotes good hormones.
Let’s see a 20+ year study.
not many would not live, it would be unethical
Something that's bad for you on day 1 won't be healthy 20 years later. The WHO already classified red meat as a Group 2A carcinogen.
Longterm studies of pure vegans 'not ethical'?
Hey, I was born a preemie back in 1958, with multiple genetic probs; further, the cardiovascular, cancer, diabetes and kidney failure 'genetic dice' are loaded against me on both sides of my family.
I've been vegan for almost 35 years now, a decade of that spent working in the healthcare field, with labwork for decades-now proving that I have zero nutritional deficiencies, as I've meanwhile run endurance-circles around even husky 'gym-dwelling' coworkers, even during strenuous lumberyard work, me for decades filling-in for constantly-sick meat & dairyeating coworkers..
In the past two weeks, both of my meat/dairyeating ex-spouses have died, one only 53 years old..
-With the number of vegans exploding worldwide (600% in the U.S. alone, since 2014) and us now numbering in the millions here in the U.S., too, so
'WHERE' is the (doomsayers'- predicted) surge of 'sick, nutrient-deficient VEGANS'?
-Who are 'NOT!' proportionately filling hospital beds, cardiac & renal & cancer & diabetes & autoimmune- diseases clinics, and to even find any 'examples' of, ya most-oft gotta lol, peruse 'exposés' in sensationalistic yellow- journalism scandal-rags..
-Shown not just in studies including thousands of vegans, but also being increasingly demonstrated by vegans punching their food-intakes into apps like Cronometer, deficiencies are demonstrably rather rare, here in this 'Information Age', and genuine vegans not just 'hijacking' that label (them following veganism's historical animal-rights underpinnings, as defined by Donald Watson in 1944 when he COINED (and defined) the word 'vegan'-
-have been found, by such as university- researchers, to STILL be vegan, years, even decades later..
-Unlike oft weak-committment 'plantbased' dabblers/ experimenters, and the 'fad-diets of the week' celebs.. And even (headlines- monopolizing) 'live on mostly air' cultists, who tragically starve their children and themselves; all of whom are ludicrously- inaccurately, quite unfairly lumped-in as 'vegans'.. And as 'ex-vegans.'
I've cared-for or attended the funerals of needlessly disease-stricken parents at young ages, likewise the funerals of old school friends and their YOUNGER siblings, funerals of acquaintances 20 years younger than myself, and just within the last month, BOTH meat/dairyeating ex-spouses of mine, one of them 12 years younger than me, have died..
'Theorizing' vegan nutritional deficiencies and 'resulting illnesses' is ONE thing..
-But we live in reality, where very-few of these vegan-millions, (including centenarian and nearing-centenarianones),
are suffering any of the usual catastrophic illnesses, and dying, at anywhere-NEAR the rate that the meat & dairyeating public is..
When fossilfueled farm machinery and rural electrification both made-possible, for the first time, vast-scale, ever-crueler Animal Agriculture and 'factoryfarming', the massive, deliberate frauds and deceptions began.. Literally $Trillions have been spent, this last century, corrupting 'studies', infiltrating key policymaking Boards, ceaselessly brainwashing us to believe nutritional lies, and to disbelieve quite-plain, glaring realities..
-A combo of 'The Emperor's New Clothes', meets 'Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain there, furiously yanking levers!..'
And thousands of people pay the price DAILY for that, in preventable illness, suffering, and premature death.
The only issue with LDL causing atherosclerosis is that it takes years to do so (unless you overdose on fat). Most studies just don’t highlight that it takes time to develop the disease and most meat eaters point out that their CAC score is zero…
Well the main issue is that LDL does not cause atherosclerosis.
@@antebellum1776 LDL is an indicator. However Lipoproteni s are required for fat transport and the fats and cholesterol. Plaque is made up of deposits of fatty substances, cholesterol, cellular waste products, calcium, and fibrin. Plaque is the outcome of atherosclerosis. So in essence it’s abundance of Fats and Lipoproteins that are the root cause. When you overload the liver with too much fat the Lipoproteins take it on and try to deposit it somewhere. Systemic fat and sugar overload is the root cause but lowering Lipoproteins stops the overloading of deposits in the vascular system.
Yeah but they need to know that..."The frequency of atherosclerotic plaque with zero calcium score was relatively high, indicating that the absence of calcification does not exclude the presence of plaques, many of which obstructive..." www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5967134/
"The Western Denmark Heart Registry includes 23,759 consecutive real-world patients (median age 58, 55% women) who had symptoms suggestive of CAD and underwent CT angiography in 2008 to 2017. Of these patients, 54% had a CAC score of zero."
www.medpagetoday.com/cardiology/prevention/95287
Additionally, "About one-fourth to one-third of the total incident cardiovascular disease (CVD) events (Table) occur in those with a CAC of zero"
www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.119.045026
Maybe I should do a video on this. "Shut up about your zero calcium score, carnivores" lol
It is the soft unstable plaque, undetectable by CAC that cause clots/strokes etc, when they break off. Otoh, a high CAC score means trauma already occurred.
That's purely your opinion not facts based on data.
Video makes me wish there was a 10x speed
Great! Thank you.
Once again, logic and fairly performed scientific research speaks volumes. Love that you do these, Mic! You provide a valuable service!
So they measured Triglycerides in the study. But the Triglycerides went up.... so why aren't we hearing about that part? Why would the people that paid for this (Beyond Meat)... not want that part mentioned? Why did they also not report some of the results of measurments they took? ....I'm not against veganism... but this is an AD for beyond meat which is crap.
He's speaking volumes of fallacies lol.
a valuable DIS-service !
there. Fixed it for you.
That's a very thoughtful and comprehensive study, fair play to all parties involved. Great stuff.
It's paid for by "Beyond Meat" and they cherry picked the results.... "Great stuff".
@@shiftgood They contributed to the study, likely offered some of their foods. They're not the sole contributor, as opposed to your typical study on vile dairy or mutilations of other animals, which are often funded majorly by that sick industry. Triggered much... LOL! 😅😜👉
This is so cool. I would be curious to see the results of this study done long-term over many years.
They would both fall off the cliff eventually. They're both not sustainable long term.
@@Lamz..lol. So you think that no one on Earth has been able to sustain a healthy diet for many years?
@@BeccaB529 Not on the diets these twins were on, not long term.
@@Lamz.. Are you thinking non sustainable in terms of money, time, or health?
@@BeccaB529Both the standard Western diet and the vegan diet will make us sick, and deplete the planet of healthy top soil. Modern agriculture is creating deserts where nothing can live besides a monoculture crop. Everything else will be sprayed to death. All microbes, insects, fungii, worms. The animals that want to feed themselves on these crops are being actively killed by the masses. And the plant foods being grown this way are toxic and void of nutrients because of the destroyed ecosystems. This is not the way forward, it's destroying the planet.
Thanks!
Super interesting. It would be cool to see a year-long study on twins.
Actually many deficiencies caused by vegan diet become obvious after a couple of years and there are indication of serious issues that will become visible in the next generations.
Year Long??? That is anti intellectual!!! Study 10-20-30 years and then you have real data to compare!!!
@@Rick-tf4dl It's not anti-intellectual to ask for a time scale that isn't in the decades, especially as far as these experiments (randomised twin studies) are concerned. It'd be hard to agree to a study that would lock you into a diet for 10, 20 years, many might quit and the data could get scrambled by external factors. I agree longitudinal studies are amazing, but a study doesn't have to span decades to give real data.
decade long studies would be ideal. The human body is competely rebuilt every 7 years or so. A year is not enough to assess the effects of a diet. Generational studies are ideal. Specially for an extreme diet like veganism , which requires proper toxic supplementation(because all supplements are toxic and create and inbalance) to work (not for all).
We know humans can thrive eating plants and animal products, since there is plenty of history to prove this. Also never has there been a civilization only eating plants and beans for good reason. There was always at least consumption of raw milk and eggs because those foods contain bioavailable proteins , fats and other essential nutrients for our health.
@@DNAndrei Then it would be limited data. Kinda like saying a jigsaw puzzle of 5/100 peices is enough to give you the full picture.
How much proof will it take to convince people that being vegan is optimal?
When you get a better poster boy than Dr Gregor
I've been wondering that myself.
@@woodyoi4035 dr Mac Gregor knows more about nutrition than anyone I’ve seen and I’ve done my research. Besides he’s not the poster boy of veganism that’s earthling ed because veganisim is not a diet it’s a philosophy. You meat heads don’t believe in science anyway so what do you care?
You will never convince everyone. People should be allowed to eat as they want. The biggest problem is there isn't enough money to promote it, not everyone cares about animals (so that should not be the focal point since vegans have given themselves a bad name over the years and have a negative social opinion, though they have gotten way better), and not everyone cares or believes the stats on the environment (I myself am skeptical on some of the enviro claims, but that's another conversation). Additionally, there are ZERO major nationwide outlets selling vegan food that is cheap and fast like McDonalds. Until a McD's vegan equivalent comes on the scene, never expect veganism or WFPB to go much further than it is now.
What proof shows that is optimal?
Please make some TMAO videos. Keep up the great work.👍
If you think eating meat alone is bad for you , and that meat , along with the saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for you , then good luck making so many of the hormones that are needed to keep your body healthy . Additionally , vitamin b12 and iron that are needed for good health . Studies have shown it's not fat that makes us unhealthy , it's sugar , be it from alcohol , refined carbs or even too much carbohydrates ingested . Do your homework , don't just believe someone that has a bias or is pushing an agenda .
Now do strict Carnivore vs strict Vegan twins.
That would be an unethical study since strict carnivore is such a dangerous way to eat for humans (not to mention the animals and the environment). So I don't think that a serious study could be conducted as such.
@@nicolaonstarchyou have hundreds of thousands people on this type of ‘diet’
the poor twins who get stuck with carnivorism!!!! Besides, it's not necessary since the study mentioned in this video gives plenty of information. I think we're past having to prove the health benefits of veganism. We don't need to damage people's health just to prove it some more.
@@annerigby4400 oh come now, your brains can't have been scrambled that much from your lack of nutrition. You know everything you just said is bullshit.
I would like to see strict raw primal diet vs strict vegan diet.
After the study was over no one went back to the vegan diet, a few went vegetarian. Anyone eating meat for a very long time will usually have difficulties making that transition sustainable it requires a slow weaning off animal products and a lot of people don't have the will to do it, it's too much to give up, even if it was to improve their health and extend their life span. Some people would rather die than give up animal products and a lot do. The endorphins being released from eating meat is not much different when you eat sugary foods, this is why carnivores gravitate to this diet it's more pleasurable than eating plants. Standford released a follow up video interviewing some of the participants after the study and you can hear there reactions when they were asked if they would continue on the healthy vegan diet.
Another factor is those who live in areas where vegan options aren't available. Where I live there's no way I can make any type of topping or sauce other than mustard and ketchup so it gets really hard trying to spice things up. I would guess this is a far bigger factor than gets reported.
@@effervescentrelief You can make toppings from scratch with garlic, soy, chili and other spices.
This guy has an amazing vegan/gluten free aioli sauce too:
ua-cam.com/video/F_Gw6o-0Mo0/v-deo.html
HealthyVeganEating's recipes have been really helpful for me because of my recent coeliac diagnosis also means I've had to cut gluten completely out of my diet.
This woman too, has been very helpful, she uses very low allergen foods:
ua-cam.com/video/_B5bEQl4Aqk/v-deo.html
It has gotten a bit harder for me because of my autoimmune disease means I do have to make almost everything from scratch (I live in rural Australia, so they have no coeliac/vegan options) even my bread and buns. But at least we have an Asian/Indian grocer about half an hour away, so I can buy lots of chickpea flour and beans for very cheap, I can't afford almond flour so I do substitute everything with chickpea (called besan flour at the Indian grocer.)
And for anyone who can eat gluten this guy rocks www.youtube.com/@ChefTJ His foods are amazing!! I wish I could have got my hands on seitan and tried some of it before I found out I was coeliac. :(
Where do live? I agree bland food is a turn off I suspect since most people eat for taste and pleasure rather than for health or a little of both. I eat a lot of Middle eastern style food to keep it interesting but I also cook and prepare foods using spices, garlic lemon cumin, cinnamon, fennel, balsamic vinegar, nutritional yeast etc to enhance certain dishes. It dose take effort I don't eat out so it's not a concern for me on that front. You have to willing to cook and fast food vegan is not a option nor is fake meat and cheese something that I wouldn't consider healthy. It takes practice to get good at it, and this maybe why some people can't stick with it for very long in some cases. But carnivore centered diets are too risky to your health long term especially as we age and now that we have more positive evidence that supports a whole food plant based diet it's hard to argue against it's health benefits though a lot of people try on a daily basis and will continue to do so. People will try to debunk this and won't change their minds but you might get new people who are on the fence to cross over.@@effervescentrelief
I wouldn't expect participants in a study to 'turn vegan' by complying with temporary required dietary restrictions. Veganism is, after all, an ethical philosophy. Without the ethics people will go back to their norm.
I don't agree that "anyone eating meat for a long time will usually have difficulties making that transition sustainable it requires a slow weaning off animal products". I was brought up on a tradition meat-included diet and had no problem dropping meat when I decided to stop eating it. I have a much harder time not eating bread (celiac) and other gluten products than doing without any animal products. I am just one person, but I would expect that there are as many people who will find giving up animal products difficult as there are people who won't, simply because of flavour. Some like it more than others. I believe choosing a vegan diet is made difficult mainly because of the society we live in where every meal HAS to contain a piece of animal or animal product. If you eat anywhere but at home, you have to consider where and how - restaurants here do not serve food without dairy and/or meat (even a vegetable soup will contain some meat in it for "flavouring"), and if it is at someone's house, then it causes a fuss because the poor cook will not know how to cope. These are much worse considerations than 'weaning off' meat! And I think the societal 'problems' are what cause people to revert back to ominivorism or vegetarianism. Then there is also the idea that 'real men' eat red meat, which I hope is going to disappear sooner rather than later because it is so ridiculous. Again societal problems, not actual food problems.
I tend to think the 2 months isn't long enough also is there data on sugar/carb and fat intake. The study is fairly meaningless without that data.
To MictheVegan great job on all of your videos. To all did you know that lightning travels the opposite way you see lightning traveling?
Mic is leading you astray.
I have a playlist on my channel called "veganism debunked".
Mike looks like the healthiest influencer I've ever seen
I hope it is sarcasm. Have you seen Dr. Anthony Chafee? Dude is 43, looks like he is mid 20s, does not look greasy like this man.
@@1st2nd43 definitely sarcasm :) Mike wears makeup
Mike looks sickly and his hair always looks wet
He very obviously wears makeup
If you're eating vegan, I think I'll try carnivore, thank you.
hi, long time follower and fan. saw in another video (NutritionMadeSimple covered this well) that there was a difference in the protein intake quantities as well. could you please touch upon that.
he wont. doesnt fit in with his narrative. (would make him look silly)
The point of veganism was never to be the healthiest diet ever in the multiverse, it´s to be doable and sustainable. A heart does the rest.
Eating a chicken from you're own garden once a month is sustainable.
Industrial vegan food is less sustainable. The vegetables of industrial food are grown on dead earth (non insects, the ground disappears instead of being created slowly, the birds disappears too, all the natural food chain is broken)
The sustainable way of eating is to pay more for a local product which is grown a responsable way.
Vegan is not sustainable. This is the advert that all vegan claim. But moral is not the point : life is the point. What make the biodiversity bigger and stronger ?
Sure, not eating much meat.
But the point is not "not eating meat". It's how much meat a month do you eat and where it comes from ? And the vegan point is : do you eat industrial food ? How often ? Do you eat vegetables from your countryside ?
(I am french, hope what I wrote is understable. If you want to correct or write it a more natural way, it would help : )
@@mychkineplot7677 The comment was about sustainability for the human body. If it's for the environment, absolutely, many things have to change if we are to be on this planet in 100 years. Monocropping is awful, industrial farming is awful, cutting trees for grazing lands is awful, ... Pretty sure eating rats once a month, squirrels once a month and so on is environmentally sustainable. An animal based diet is not.
@@julioandresgomez3201 You actually have to plant trees to pasture farm. Animals need shade. If we are talking sustainability for the human body, then a diet based on red meat is the best you will find. It's best for the ecosystem and best for the body.
@@DeadRepublic Do you realize that having 80 billion farm animals (or actually much more, for that high meat diet) on Earth is just not natural? The few million animals that´d be without human interference, sure, that´s a win for the ecosystems. But how do you think overloading the land with hundreds of times more animals they´d ever be naturally is a benefit for the environment, let alone a long term sustainable thing?
@@julioandresgomez3201 Simple its called: "regenerative farming". Look it up, its good stuff. To summarize. Pasture farming rebuilds the soil, through the power of natural fertilizers, aka poop.
Its basically the opposite of industrial crop farming that uses synthetic fertilizers that slowly degrade the soil to uselessness, while pesticides and poisons commit genocide on local wildlife and ecosystems.
Talk about overloading the land. How much longer do you think we'll have a food supply if we kill off all the good soil?
I wonder if someone has any take on bileflow on a low fat vegan diet. Everytime I only get 15% of my calories from fat I stop producing bile and my stools are yellow. It goes away when I go back to 20-25% which means using a couple of spoons of olive oil
Yellow poop also means malabsorption. Fat is required for nutrient absorption in many foods.
hmm.🤔Maybe because animal fat isnt bad and our bodies actually need it???🤯
shocker !!!🙄
eat a high animal fat meat-based diet. problem solved.
what is so difficult to understand ??
I'd like a carnivore vs mediteranian vs vegan.
It's simple, carnivore puts animals through hell & prematurely murders them, vs mediteranian puts animals through hell & prematurely murders them, vs vegan doesn't. Vegan wins.
@@jonahwhale9047 appealing to emotions is the only tactic vegans have, cant appeal to science nor health. LMFAO.
Under the "Conflicts of Interest Disclosures" section for this study - "Dr Gardner reported receiving funding from Beyond Meat outside the submitted work." This constitutes an immensely significant "Conflict of Interest" issue.
In addition, this is "Vegan vs Omnivore". The Standard American Diet is omnivorous, and the outcomes are quite disheartening, figuratively and... literally.
What we need is a comprehensive study comparing the effects of a vegan diet versus a carnivorous diet on twins over a duration of 12 months or more. This study should include DEXA scans and CAC tests to assess changes in body composition and coronary artery health. In addition, bloodwork analysis will encompass a holistic approach, considering parameters such as triglycerides, HDL, VLDL, and others, rather than focusing mostly on total cholesterol or LDL levels. This approach should provide a nuanced understanding of the impact of these dietary patterns on overall health.
Love this TMAO kind of test for vegan 😂 ! Great video Mic ! Greetings from France
Twin Power! My identical twin brother and I have been Vegan for 7 years. We like to compare our yearly cholesterol tests.
How awesome 🎉
who cares about cholesterol?? 🤣 gosh you guys are so clueless.
@@DanteLikesRock guess you don’t know that this video is about twins testing. Clueless must be your life’s motto
@@xgreatnwcomicsx oh yeah right... "twins so therefore it must be a perfect study with no flaws🤡"
...except, the flaws are everywhere, this pathetic excuse for science has been debunked already.
@@xgreatnwcomicsx also, imagine basing your entire health solely on 1 marker (LDL) that actually has 0 effect on heart disease and lifespan, unless it is too low ofcourse.
I love steak a butter. Vegans will never win
Here we go......😮😮
I have an identical twin sister, but she is not vegan as me but still a health-conscious omnivore, so this video was quite fun to see :D I almost went and shared it with my sister, but I think there are too many scientific terms, she wouldn't understand as this video is quite nerdy ;)
Are you serious ? 😂
Nothing scientific here
Its called sophisms
you are very closed minded and clearly are too thick to just simply look at the studies done@@richardcardinale7152
@@richardcardinale7152 I am serious yes. You are free to have another opinion.
@@Shinibo i respect you for not being a nazzi vegoon 🙏
I think you should still share it. 😊
As an endocrinologist... Toughest part of vegan transition is people don't have time to adapt for small changes needed for vegan oil free cooking.
So I ask them to start at weekends with one vegan meal slowly.
sending WhatsApp messages of various recipes of staple foods then special foods.
Usually people will stray on festivals or gatherings.....
I also don't insist on 100%.
My target is to achieve negligible animal product consumption
I think 'do no harm' is supposed to apply to the humans, not the animals 🤣
@@Beatrice-nx5ld I believe science and history points to humans being apex predators, hypercarnivorous opportunistic omnivores.
Well planned vegan diet diets is best for many with very few exceptions. My bias is towards vegan diet given current info. As a physician I give my patients all the information I know and let them decide.
Vegan and "oil free" are completely different things. Some vegans may ALSO choose to be oil free, but that's a separate decision that has nothing to do with veganism.
@@Beatrice-nx5ld 99.9% of the people making claims such as your are either plainly lying, or are just coming into this with far more serious problems like morbid obesity, eating disorders, & all of the symptoms & legacies that it brings. Many have already reached a terminal level of illness. There simply aren't the "masses of cases" you're talking about. From what you wrote, it reads as if you're talking about the handful of cases that arise from raw fooders and fruitarians, but they're not vegans. Different lifestyle, different motivations altogether.
For me though, the most impressive thing was the significant change, increase to be specific, in telomeres length, I mean, in just 2 months???? Like WHAAAAT. I feel like this should be talked about much more. I mean we knew that vegan diet could help slower the decrease in telomeres length, but increaseeee????? I find that just mind blowing.
What I would like to see is a debate with you and doctors,Alan mandell, Eric berg and sten ekberg. Also, if I cannot get enough of what I need to sustain good health directly from nature, then it is obvious that the "diet" is inadequate, so if I would have to use supplements, that would not work for me as I then rely on others to produce those.
It is interesting, but because of the very small sample size, less conclusive. Also seems doubt is cast on the results because it is self reported and since they were paid, not reliable. However it's another piece that adds to the overwhelming amount of evidence pointing to the health benefits of even a junk food vegan diet, in comparison to a diet that includes meat and dairy.
Thankfully they didn't self-report their blood tests so at least those results are worth something. Controlled feeding trials are ideal but I'm happy we got the study at all :)
You cant seriously be saying that vegan junk food is healthier than eating good quality non-junk non-vegan foods.
Garbage is garbage whether its vegan or not. I despise half of the bs i hear from carnivore but half the reason i think that people get a positive response from carnivore is the removal of junk food.
Processed man made foods are the enemy of health regardless of if its vegan or not.
Is Beyond Meat really that bad? I eat their products at least once per week as a quick dinner on nights where my family is limited on time. Have you done a video breakdown on them? If so, I’d love to watch it.
Edit: I’ve been vegan for twenty years and my blood levels are phenomenal. I am incredibly well informed as I had to be two decades ago because I had to make all my own food since there were very few options on the market. I eat Beyond Meat occasionally and I love it.
Look at the ingredients. Do you think it's healthy?
Honestly I don’t eat it everyday but I love Beyond meat. I’ll still have it every once in a while for sure. My cholesterol levels are amazing🙋🏻♀️
May I reformulate your question?
"Is my ultra-transformed food full of crap really that bad?".
Now you have the good question you also have the answer.😊
Real food, fresh makes sense. Avoid highly processed....yucky food😮
A triple cheeseburgers healthier
This study has limited meaning since these markers don't equal longevity etc. Cholesterol is a myth.
No, you cannot establish a causal relationship from that graph, because it's perfectly possible that higher LDL is a RESPONSE to the atherosclerosis not the cause. The evidence that LDL causes heart disease is very weak, and rejected by many. Your body MAKES cholesterol, it doesn't make sense that the body is manufacturing something that is hurting it, and in fact cholesterol is a vital signalling molecule. Also, while lots of aspect of this study are well designed, it's weak in one essential respect: the criticism of the vegan diet is primarily about nutrient deficiencies, which do not show symptoms in 4-8 weeks. Going vegan feels great for the first few weeks, negative side effects take much longer to manifest. Zoe Harcombe does a good job of debunking cholesterol myths (and more) here: ua-cam.com/video/X2kaEEzSrIs/v-deo.html
Did they match calorie intake?
No, they didn't. The vegan group was about 200 calories lower per day on average.
The food they were supplied during the first phase was well matched between groups, but not everyone ate all the food they were given, and during the 2nd phase they were providing their own food and those on the vegan diet ate fewer calories than those on the omni diet.
Thanks! I did some quick calculations after hearing the average weight loss of 4lbs. (4lbs x 3500cal) / (56days) = 250 cal per day deficit. Pretty interesting that wasn't a control in the experiment. @@His-Most-Catholic-Majesty
No... and as such that's unfortunately one of the short-comings in the study as the weight-loss in the vegans can quite possibly account for some of the differences in markers seen between groups. To be really robust and remove that uncertainty, this really should have been controlled for IMO.
@@IanRushtonMusic But they didn't lose any weight in the first 4 weeks when the food was being supplied, and their biomarkers were actually *better* at that point (e.g. LDL was down to 91.3). Then in the second phase, when they supplied their own food, the vegans lost an average of 3 lbs and their LDL went UP to 95.5. So the greatest difference between the vegans and omnivores was during the period when the food was being supplied and the vegans did not lose any weight in that phase.
Half were constantly hungry. Guess which that was.
I only clicked on this because I was hoping it was a spoof on The Twin Study which someone should do.
The saturated fat is for muscle growth
Lol, carnists are absolutely seething about this study. They are grasping at any straw they can to discredit it and failing miserably.
why would we be seething about flawed and biased data? nothing to seethe about here.
not eating animals is really about critical thinking and common sense.
Well critical thinking is a good thing. Read my comment about how this study was strangely designed...
It is common sense that humans should not be eating animals. We have all been sold a BS lie about animal protein. There is enough protein in fruit for human survival and it has been proven. @@Noegzit
Diet isn't about critical thinking. It's about doing what feels good for you personally, and everybody is different.
Would be cool to see a debate with you and Dr. Layne Norton on this. He had a different take..
I saw all the episodes this last week, and I found it pretty interesting, specially the side stories they tell across the episodes. Like the chef Daniel Humm, the former chicken farmer, and even the New York's major.
But I have seen some videos and articles talking about some flaws of this study. Saying that the triglycerides on vegans were actually higher, and that they did not revealed the composition of the weight loss, if it was lean mass or body fat. What do you think about it?
An 8 week study is laughable. No one disputes that a semi fasting diet (ie vegan) can be healthful for a short term reset - but long term malnutrition sets in. I'll only be impressed when these twins have been vegan for a life time and have healthy vegan from birth children and grandchildren.
Exactly, I felt great after 3 months of being vegan, but after a year my health started to deteriorate, I hear this a lot from ex vegans
What you people don't understand is that it's very hard to do such a study. There have been researchers that talked about how hard it is to do long term studies when you need to control the diet of dozens/hundreds of people for a long time, that's why you won't usually see such studies.
Even so, we know enough, even specific mechanics for why it's a good idea to follow a plant based diet, not just some observational studies. Though even 8 week studies show it.
The WHO didn't classify red/processed meat as probably carcinogenic/carcinogenic for no reason. There are numerous high quality studies done in the last decades which point into what direction you should go with your diet.
I quite realise the difficulty of doing such studies. However, there are no thriving vegan populations so doing the diet long term is an experiment - maybe you're happy to gamble the health of children in such an experiment but I am not. I am also not in the least interested inn 'studies' - I know from bitter experience (6 years eating varied, whole foods plant based) that a plants only diet is a deficient death diet. @@xtrwq
"self rightousness'' 😆
What was the HDL comparison?
Would have been more interesting vegan vs. carnivore.
They couldn't find any twins willing to eat nothing but raw meat and organs for two months.
I was vegie for almost 8 years before my body broke down and I was advised to eat meat again.... it was difficult but it was the best medicine and my body regenerated very quickly but not completly. It left certen organs damaged and to this day (20 years later) I suffer from this decision not to eat meat.
This highlights the problem with one size fits all medical advice. Just because something is potentially good for many people, does not mean that it is good for all people.
You're lying.
Do u mind explaining ur experience in more detail? I just became vegan not too long ago and I don't want to have my body damaged later on in the long term due to lack of awareness.. thanks so much!
@@integral9x Those posts aren't real.
@@jonahwhale9047 How do u know tho?
I tried going vegan for a couple weeks and I was in a constant state of indigestion
that can happen with any diet change. you will get used to it. (only if you want to go vegan of course) :)
Flaxseed or Chia seeds help
The grains cause me digestive discomfort, so I switched to starch for carbs. Plenty of fiber in the veggies and fruit and love the legumes.
I felt like I was going to pass out on it.
I did this for 3 weeks and never felt more bloated and had worse indigestion in my life
Is there anything in the design of the study to give a desired outcome?
This was a very well designed study, RCT, no conflicts of interest, try again.
wrong, there was a conflict of interest. Funded by Beyond Meat. @@buckmurdock2500
@@buckmurdock2500 Lmfao.
Mic can you make a second video about this because there has been a lot of backlash saying that the studies are biased and false since it’s funded by beyond
I love that we have a twin study! This is yet further proof that a plant based diet is healthier than even a “healthy” omnivorous diet.
@@ClaudiaM-js6ol thats decades ago. the modern human has been evolving on a modern day diet whenwe starting farming/agricultuur.
@@ClaudiaM-js6ol Animal products are harmfull aslo for human health. Point.
Watch Healthy ever after / fountain of youth and similar channels. They are covering people whose health and appearance is much younger than their age. Turns out almost all of them are vegans with an addition of fish and sometimes also lean chicken. None of them eat dairy, except yogurt with no sugar. Almost none eat egg yolks, especially those with higher age
Deluded....@@Anna-mv9ew
@@Asduyr are you okay?
💚🐾🌱💚🐾🌱💚🐾🌱💚🐾🌱
You should do a test on the oxalates
Eight weeks is not long enough. Four months may show enough to justify watching the video.....
I had to throw out my healthy, no sugar added, peanutbutter because it had palm oil.
You can get healthy peanut butter from Trader Joe's that's made from only peanuts and salt, or from just peanuts (salt free). There's also healthy peanut butter from Costco (Kirkland) that's only peanuts and salt.
Palm oil isn’t bad from my understanding
Soy, canola, sunflower oil are
@@Kylewraps Production of palm oil is extremely destructive to the environment, particularly in southeast Asia where palm oil plantations exist, and endanger the mangroves. (Please see the Bloomberg article from Nov. 21, 2021: "The World's Addiction to Palm Oil Is Only Getting Worse")
@@KylewrapsRead How Not To Age by Dr. Greger. He is really down on palm oil.
@15:35 "Did I miss anything?" Hi Mic, I found another little detail you missed: undisclosed conflicts of interest.
Stanford University professor Christopher Gardner published the results of this study. Gardner, who says he’s been “mostly” vegan for some 40-plus years, happens now to be the director of the Stanford Plant-Based Diet Initiative (PBDI), which was launched in 2021 with a 5-year grant by the meat-replacement company, Beyond Meat.
Funding the twin study itself was the eponymous foundation of Kyle Vogt, one of Silicon Valley tycoons who invest in vegan-focused companies...
Gardner’s study, published in JAMA Network Open, did not disclose that PBDI is underwritten by Beyond Meat or that the Vogt Foundation is a vehicle for vegan advocacy...
Sadly, Science is that now: undisclosed conflicts of interest, secret agendas, vested interests, disguised advertising and propaganda...
Be warned, the purpose of these guys has never been to make you healthier, they just want to make more money, no matter how.
Love this video, best one I have seen on this study. One additional thing to note about the study is that adherence to the study's dietary guidelines was strongest for the consumption or exclusion of ANIMAL products (see Supplement 2 for details). While the vegan group had the bigger increase in veg intake, on average participants in the vegan group consumed only ONE additional serving of vegetables/legumes/starchy veg than the omnivore group. This suggests to me that the biggest source of the health benefits accruing to the vegans is the exclusion of animal products. I don't think this point has been emphasized at all in the mainstream media. Even the researchers are silent about it. Gardner says, “What’s more important than going strictly vegan is including more plant-based foods into your diet...” From both environmental and ethical standpoints that is absolutely true but I don't think this study provides particularly strong support for that conclusion from a nutrition standpoint.
I am looking forward to the Netflix documentary about the study and also to future papers about microbiome differences.
Loving the Frodo look on you Mic
My mother is 82, takes no medications, perfect blood pressure and BMI yet eats no fruits or veggies, mostly yogurt and cheese.
There's always one comment like this. That is fantastic for your mother. Unfortunately the general population are not and will not have it so lucky. That's why they controlled for genetics. Here's to a long life for everyone!
We've all heard of that one smoker who reached age 90+ and seemed to be OK. My dad smoked a LOT in the last +40 years (and still is doing it) while others had cancer or a stroke in their 40s or 50s because of it. Remember reading an article, think it was last year, where a medic talked about some of her patients who smoked and had strokes before reaching 40 and were basically a complete wreck.
The reality is clearer when you see what happens in a large enough population, even though some people are luckier than others.
I took your advice went vegan and now my junk don't work and my wife has left me!!!
xD
Any of you have tips on how to make vegan advocacy without showing face
Wear masks like Vegan Footsoldier, lol.
How the meat eaters lose the insulin face off?
Like, they were eating nothing but meat
🤷🏽♂️
Of course what Mic the Vegan guy won't tell you is in this study for an unexplainable reason Vegan group had 10-15% less calories in their diet. This in fact has massive impact on the results, and there are big macronutrient differences btw these diets. So none of the claimed benefits of eating Vegan can be scientifically claimed, as this study cannot conclude eating animal protein causes these differences.
Another thing he wouldn't tell you is for another "strange" reason Vegan's ate far less refined grains than the omnivore cohort. As anyone would know, eating refined grains is not good for your insulin and metabolism, and while normally Vegans eat much more refined grains than omnivores or carnivores, authors of this study decided to lower the refined grains for Vegans, which distorts the entire study on benefit of Vegans.
Not surprisingly they asked vegans and omnivores if they want to continue their diet, only 5% of the Vegans said yes while 28% of the omnivores said yes. Looks like it's very hard to maintain this vegan diet for the participants (which is not surprising).
Be careful with these type of people who won't tell you these MAJOR things so that he can sell his probiotic pills that you would certainly need if you eat vegan.
They weren't vegans. They were meat eaters who agreed to eat plant based for two months. Vegan is something you do for ethical reasons, not because you like certain recipes. And, just to confuse matters, some of them didn't eat everything that they were given to eat, throwing out the results even further, e.g. the woman who lost muscle mass. I thought that was a bit slack. But they were overweight and exercising so I guess their dieting was more important to them than the study.
Thoughts on the average vegan calories being about 200 lower for both the initial 4 weeks, and the self fed 4 weeks that followed?
Also the vegan calories were down around 300 from baseline, compared to the omnivores being down around 100.
I think it likely has to do with the fact that all subjects were omnivores to begin with, so those assigned to the vegan diet were not used to it and (1) may not have wanted to eat unfamiliar foods like tofu and tempe, and (2) may have felt much fuller from all the extra fiber they were getting.
So this experiment really suggests that you can make people lose weight by restricting them to food they don't like. It doesn't look good for the vegan diet if you'll only lose weight because you don't want to eat it.
8 weeks x the rest of your life just imagine how healthy you will be. You will literally live forever.
Not really The test was too limited to draw any conclusion about long term health.
@@propheteyebert7063 that was my point
They should have done vegan vs. keto or vegan vs. carnivore.
And of course the best review of the study on yt is from Mic The Vegan! Btw, they also lost significant weight, but maybe you mentioned it already. 'Nutrotion made simple' assumed the insulin resistance and lowering LDL was from just the weight loss, not from the diet, while he was at the same time doubting if the weight loss was maybe partially muscle loss (which would contradict his assumption that the improvements in LDL and insulin were from the weight loss, because that would be a result of FAT loss) and (Bio)Layne suggests the improvements in LDL and insulin resistance are 'just' from the extra fiber and lower saturated fat. Both don't want to just see it as it is: eating plant based causes weight loss and lowers LDL and insulin resistance. And yes, that is because eating animal foods (with cholesterol, with sat fat and zero fiber), makes it so much harder to eat high fiber, low sat fat and low cholesterol diet, and keep calories low (if you need to loose fat).
Thanks for bringing these to my attention! I might do a short video response to those together.
You are the best! Really appreciate your work, I always learn so much from your channel! @@MictheVegan
@@MictheVegan Slight tangent but I don't know otherwise how to flag up interesting papers; 'Vitamin B12 Deficiency and the Role of Gender: A Cross-Sectional Study of a Large Cohort' Ili Margalit, Eytan Cohen, Elad Goldberg, Ilan Krause [Ann Nutr Metab. 2018]. Thought this was worthy or note, "Conclusions: Among the healthy population, men are susceptible to vitamin B12 deficiency. This can be explained by neither diet habits nor estrogen effects. Genetic variations are therefore hypothesized to play a role.
Men were strongly associated with severe deficiency"
You don’t look super healthy, some meat might bring some color back
I'm wondering about those vegans who supplement with Acetyl l-carnitine (I do it for neurological damage reasons) Would they run a risk of elevated TMAO?
Yeah, sadly long term our bacteria can adapt to supplements to make TMA. "Dietary L-carnitine supplementation can significantly increase serum TMAO levels in both human and rodents (4, 13). Oral L-carnitine treatment could also promote atherosclerosis in ApoE knockout mice (10)." www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fendo.2019.00168/full
Additionally, here is a study on vegetarians showing an increase with carnitine supplements. The increase isn't huge after 1 month though:
microbiomejournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40168-020-00912-y/tables/1
Maybe there is a sweet spot or maybe it is worth getting blood TMAO levels checks and if they stay low then all good. We are starting to get a handle on which bacteria do the conversion so I wonder if the future solution is to target them. Best of luck.
Hi, i read that anyway carnitine supplements can reduce mortality and cardiovascolar diseases, what do you think?
@@MictheVegan Thank you. I will read the link that you kindly provided, go forth with caution, and get blood tests.
Thank you Mic 🙏 Go vegan 🌱💚