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You also have to factor in Social Contagion as well. When children, or young adults really want to fit in with their peers, they often adopt values that are antithetical to their parent's values or even toxic to themselves. Social Contagion is also a major issue. Also, we live in a time where public schools are pushing values onto children that are antithetical to their parent's values, and often undermine the parent/child relationship. This is starting to happen more often than not, where teachers will push their values onto their students and hide it from the parents. Gender, political, social, etc values are now being enforced in public schools without the parents even knowing about it, and some public school faculty will go as far as to tell their students not to tell their parents, to hide what they are being told and taught. This pits the child against their parents which often leads to children or young adults going " No contact" with their parents.
“Estranged” is a funny word because, growing up in an authoritarian household with plenty of physical, verbal, emotional abuse, it’s not as if my family and I were ever close. I was just stuck there.
Exactly!!! Couldn't have said it better. I realised as an adult - the ' big scary world'was like buttercups and rainbows compared to what I grew up in! I started to realise I feel safer outside of the family because I am. But Stockholm syndrome is real and it took me 40 yrs to get over
Sucks though when I think back and wonder since what they said was love for me…was far from it….i wonder what live really feels like….i loved them …why did I give them that energy when they gave me the opposite….
@@Ashley-yy3deOr they see their behavior as normal and can not comprehend why it is hurtful. They are simply bewildered that one is hurt by gaslighting or blatant mockery.
It feels so freeing to let go of the hope I was holding onto and realise I won't have a nice mother-daughter relationship with my mum. Even though I really wanted that
We know that these people can’t hurt in a way that normal humans would. Any hurt would be because they can’t get what they want from us anymore. They’re incapable of true connection.
Yup, and sometimes the parents use your siblings as weapons to gang up you, so there’s an entire toxic family system that you have to walk away from to become a real person. I never knew how to heal or feel true happiness until I left ALL the abusers. I remember them on every holiday & birthday by saying a prayer. Since the disconnect, I’ve found much better relationships and cherish the real love in my life. That’s enough.
The idea that parents can't do wrong and especially mothers and always the kids are at fault like if kids should be the ones to educate their parents and teach them how to treat them is vicious.
I think a big reason parents tend to blame a third party for their kids cutting them off is that they are incapable of viewing their kid as a full person. Thus, they cannot imagine their kid making such a decision - or any decision, for that matter - independent of some kind of outside, “nefarious” force. It’s really disgusting, honestly.
And that would be a big cause of going no contact. If you don't see me as a real person capable of having opinions, why bother staying in contact? Even if the parents can be convinced that issue X is acceptable, they'll go back to treating you as a non-person when there is a disagreement on issue Y or issue Z.
Yep, and spot on, coming from someone raised by *_both_* parents with a whole lotta 'unlived life'! _"The greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of its parents." - Carl Jung_
and when i asked for him to just talk to me and explain things like he would to another adult he somehow threatened with treating me and speaking to me worse
I feel like no one talks about an abusive childhood then the "nicer" parents in adulthood. You're stuck in permanent limbo remembering the crap they did to you then, while they are helping you or being nice to you now. It's a feeling I don't have words for.
THIS. And I feel like shit for being angry/resentful when they are being so nice now. Like why can't I be the bigger person and accept them for who hey are, instead of getting hung up on who they were?
I see a lot of comments with narcissistic parents and in my experience, narcissistic parents don't even understand the concept of boundary setting. They don't engage with your will, because theirs is the only important one.
My mother was a narcissist with a quick and frequent temper that would flair when I didn't do or act like she wanted. God help me if I somehow embarrassed her in front of friends or family! As I became an adult, I started to understand her issues and just dealt with her to keep the family relationship. But when she started using her temper on my 6 year old daughter, that was the "straw that broke the camel's back". When I "set the boundary" by cutting off most of our family contact with her, the didn't have to wonder why because I told her why. That didn't change her perspective or behavior one iota and she continued to blame me for the rift in our relationship and for barely keeping touch for all of my adult life. Late in life, she developed dementia and would tell friends and family what bad son I was and that she hadn't heard from me in years when in fact, it may have only been days or weeks since I had spoken to her, but that perception was her reality. Maybe it's not right to expect people to change to meet our needs, but if they won't, then sometimes it's necessary to protect ourselves and our loved ones from their abuse.
To anyone who is a parent and says "you weren't perfect either" That might have been true, but also, THEY WERE A CHILD AND IN NO WAY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE WAY YOU CHOSE TO TREAT THEM.
My mother tried to do this, texted my sister crying "I wasn't perfect but I was the only one there" ummm miss gurl we weren't even born yet we didn't choose to make you become a single mom by having children in unstable hookup type scenarios 💀 And she was highly ab*sive on top of. I understand she was young, mentally ill, and didn't have the resources required. But children are not responsible for choices that adults make, and we don't ask to be here
Yep - have heard that one a lot. The best time was recently when I decided to tell her how I was SA at 13 by a 31 year old and her response - “that’s your fault, and don’t blame me” ummm I didn’t mention her at all. The defensiveness was strong.
Well, than its a good thing they moved out isn't it? Also parents saying "stop disrespecting me" as a response to the most mundane basic words and phrases is literally a universal thing. At a certain point you don't give an f if your parent is upset or not, especially if they continue to disrespect you all the time. So you might also be right @@Anastasia-nn5fy
I use to tell my mother as a child and teenager “if you keep acting like this, you won’t see me as an adult.” The abuse didn’t stop and I haven’t spoken to her in over ten years. It’s the only time in her life anybody has held her accountable for her bad behavior and it totally flummoxes her
@@TheFlowerGirl13, that is so commonplace. I think either the mother can't handle it emotionally, or can't handle it practically (i.e., hasn't worked in years, has no workplace skills, has other kids to take care of, can't survive without husband's paycheck), or maybe both. So the abused kid gets sacrificed for the sake of "family stability". When I finally went NC with my mother at 40, she had actually forgotten everything that had happened in my childhood, everything I'd told her that her husband, my stepfather, had been doing whenever she left the house. "We were all perfectly happy back then," she said. I don't know if she actually believed that or not, but it was the last straw for me.
Alot of parents need to understand it's not a sudden thing. Estrangement happens in childhood. You can't do anything about it when you're a kid. You can when you're a adult. So it may seem sudden but it's a failure on the parent to not properly connect to their kid.
Exactly. Often abusers don't realize we're just going through the motions and are actually miserable. Or worse, they don't even care that we're miserable. As long as we go through the motions to maintain their reputation - They couldn't care less.
another thing nobody ever talks about is that nobody WANTS to leave their family. no sane person wishes to leave unless they've literally exhausted every other option. one of the biggest voids in my soul is the space where my parents' (conditional) love used to be. i love my found family but there is an undeniable biological urge to want to be close to the people who put you on this earth. it's heartbreaking to find yourself unwanted after they're the ones who consented to your existence in the first place.
Do you wanna know the age I found out that most other parents don’t belittle their children physically abuse, tell them that they would be nothing without them, and that they are nothing without them? I was 18!!!! I was 18 when I found out most of my other friends aren’t getting abused at at home!!! I thought beating your kids and calling them evil names was normal. And yes i was still getting slapped around at 18.
@@a.h.i267when i first told my classmates about the shit that happened at home i would kinda laugh about it because i thought it was relatable. my friends would say "dude.... thats actually really fucked up". it took until well into high school for me to visit other kids' homes and see that their lives aren't a constant game of walking on eggshells and living in fight or flight mode. crazy.
I didn't go no contact because of my childhood. I went no contact because at 50 years old, they were still telling me that I wasn't enough and everything that was associated with me- my accomplishments, my children, my home, my dreams, was unworthy of their acknowledgement.
My parents have never shown any interest in my life outside of milestones like joining the Air Force or getting married. I could start talking about something important to me, and event, and insight, whatever.. and the subject would be changed to whatever my mother had for lunch that day. I just learned not to share anything important or meaningful to me because it weighed in as less significant than a TV show or something other mundane thing they did that day. For the record, I'm not talking about needy or long conversations. Just the basic 3-5 min versions (which I've learned to do) but still pretty much zero interest. I would take this (my mother died last year) however, over the kinds of parents of adult children that get TOO involved. It never made me sad that there was no interest in my life, but if she ever wondered why I rarely called..
Much the same here. I'm the head librarian for a large company (that happens to require a ton of documentation specialist/librarian types), a semi-pro painter who's only not a pro because I like my job, and married for 22 years now. None of that seems to matter much for some reason. I decided it did and meandered off to be happy on my own.
When I was a child, I didn't have imaginary friends, but when I reached my 60s I created imaginary parents for myself. They are calm, kind and love me just as I am, everything I never got when I was growing up. Some people would think it's crazy but it's comforting to me and doesn't harm anyone.
That's beautiful, and there's nothing crazy about this. I did the same thing when I was lying in a hospital bed, after a major surgery. I was in so much pain, physically and emotionally, and I asked myself "what would make it better?" I imagined loving, kind, caring, patient, attentive parents sitting next to me. That's all I needed. I was in my early thirties, and all I needed was to imagine having a loving mammy and a caring daddy to make the pain go away. Having imaginary parents inspires me to become as loving and caring, towards myself and others, as the parents I made up in my heart. It's not easy, but it's happening. It's wonderful that you have this parenting love in your life now too ☺️
I told my mom exactly why. Laid it out in full. She still sent me guilt tripping letters asking how long I was going to “punish her”. Those parents in the study also knew why. They simply rejected the why’s as valid.
I can't tell you how explicitly and carefully I always laid out my point of view as an adult when my dad and I would argue. I even told him one of the last times we argued that if he continued this behavior, I wouldn't engage with him anymore. I warned him multiple times. Told him exactly what I needed for us to have a healthy relationship. Narcissists don't WANT to work for a healthy relationship. They want your personality to perfectly align with their world view, their fantasy. Also dad being an alcoholic doesn't help.
I think the sentiment of "both parties taking accountability" is a moot point in this conversation, because we are talking about the neglect of literal children. It is 100% the adults fault for these situations.
@@Anastasia-nn5fy The child is developing, has little to no notion of anything vs. a grown a$$ person who has lived much longer and selflessly decided to have a kid if the child acts in a "bad" way is up to the parent to correct the behavior without harming the child, not because the child should be over-protected but because the child is developing, there are different processes according to age and bad parents have no notion of that.
I think it all comes down to pride. Too prideful to change. Too prideful to admit they’re wrong. These parents would rather lose their child than let go of this image of themselves in their head that isn’t real. Pretty sick. My parents sexually and physically abused me and I STILL gave them multiple chances to take real accountability and I would have forgiven them. I even tried to explain to my mom what gaslighting is and how she was doing it to me ( strongly do not recommend).
Talking to abusers, or explaining their behavior seems to ignite an explosive denial of the behavior and intensified treatment. #1 tip, never tell the abuser your secrets, your vulnerability like a crush, let alone dreams, hopes... they will take that knowledge and destroy you , your emotions, crush and destroy that dream, or hope for positive emotions in you. They extract your light, and dump their darkness into you. Protect yourself.
@@cathycoryell2351100% my mom is not an attractive person. But I could never bring partners around because she’d flirt with them /hit on them /make them uncomfortable. Several people bailed because of it
Sometimes you really dont know you are wrong until its too late... its like living in fog sort of. Like you are not yourself. Can be mental illness or ptsd.
@@normanclatcher unfortunately my generation (z) has it's share of rotten parents as well. You wouldn't believe some of the things I've seen and heard.
@@tongpoo8985 I'm supposedly an early 'Z' myself. Our parenting style as a collective may be horrible thus far, but. At least, _bare-minimum,_ we recognize this and can be trying to do better.
The parents did no wrong in their eyes. Blame shift only. The act of "meaning well" cancels all responsibility from abject failure. They'd rather call their own offspring unappreciative or crazy than to ever have messed up or been evil.
It shouldn't surprise me that blaming a therapist is common. That's what my mum did - said I have false memories of abuse from a therapist implanting them 💀
one of the most common perspectives coming from people who tend to be controlling authoritarian parents is that therapy is bad for children and teens (and often adults too, but especially children and teens). 🤨
It is strangely ironic-they often gaslight you into believing you're "mentally ill" and "need therapy"...then you go to therapy and learn about emotional abuse and personality disorders and estrange from the family, NOW the therapist is the problem!
I think parents need to understand that you can’t treat people (even your kids) like crap and expect them to want to be around them when they are finally old enough to have a choice.
I mean, it makes total sense when you do it to non-family members, so why tf are people expecting us to put up with that shit from our own fucking parents?!! What, do they think that we haven't been abvsed enough and need more of it?!!
As far as I can see from situations I've witnessed, the person expecting that from a child probably did it themselves with their own parents, and never realize they could leave, so it's hard to understand someone else being able to leave. But by leaving, you break the cycle.
straight up, simple as that. If every interaction I have with you is a negative one, then why would you be surprised that I rarely visit? And I know it's not me, because I get along with everybody else very well.
Honestly, I think toxic parents see their child as someone they can get away with treating like shit, because in their world, "blood is thicker than water" and anyone who's family is obligated to put up with everything and anything family members do, especially one's parents. Similar reason why bullies pick on someone they perceive as weak and/or having no power to retaliate. When an adult kid then cuts them off, it's like "Wh-- You can't cut off family!" "Watch me." "AWjhbsjbsg... IMPOSSIBLE!!"
@@tonichan89 Yep, that's it, exactly. Unfortunately, I can't erase them from my mind, but I don't physically need to have them in my life. There's absolutely nothing more to be said and as people in my situation know, we learn to become very self-sufficient at a young age because we don't have that stability other people get from their parents. It could be taken from us at any moment. So, we learn to adapt and also how to do many things when we're young. Trust me, after you start earning your own income and have a place to live, you do NOT need your parents.
The parent stating confusion for the reasons is iften just denial. I'm low contact with my mom and she will always act confused why were not close and asks if I have a problem with her. She actually has a detailed letter from me describing my point of view. She never engages with the points but claims she has no Idea what's going on.
Yeah, this is it perfectly. I'm low contact well after a few years of no contact. Two or three times in my life I showed her hard evidence of her abuse. The closest I ever got to an admission was when I printed out "characteristics of narcissistic mums" on parishmiller and asked her to read through it and as she did she laughed repeatedly saying things like "hehe I say this all the time" to direct quotes in the article. But when I doubled down and said. If you admit that you do this how can you still deny that you ever abused me. To which she would reply with something like "I never abused you! You are abusing me by accusing me of abusing you! No one can hurt our feelings if we don't let them hurt our feelings. If you think I hurt you that is just you making yourself hurt and blaming me!" The level of mental gymnastics is really crazy. It just became much easier to accept I will never receive an apology and to act as if my childhood didn't happen to maintain a relationship. And as long as there is no power imbalance between my mother and I, she is aware she can't cross the line or I will go no contact again.
True story. A few years ago, my neighbor told me that some people parked their car in my driveway and that they had been checking out my house. I thought to myself, "They are probably looking for a house to rob; I don't having anything valuable enough to make it worth their time." I wasn't upset about it at all. After a few days, it occurred to me that it might not have been strangers -- but, rather, someone in my family showing up uninvited to my house. Unlike my previous conclusion, this immediately upset me. Then I reflected on my reactions. I was not upset at the thought of a stranger wanting to break into my house, but I was upset at the thought of a family member wanting to visit me. That helped me to realize that reducing contact was essential to my peace of mind.
Please invest in some security cameras. If it's a stranger looking for stuff to steal, you'll have evidence. If it's someone you need to get a restraining order against, you'll have evidence.
I’ll shorthand it: don’t treat your kids like utter garbage when they are children, and then expect them to want to engage with you and have a relationship as adults. If a parent treated their friends and acquaintances like this, these people would never want to be around them again. Why is this so difficult to understand for parents in the parent/child dynamic?
Absolutely correct. You reap what you sow with parent/adult child relationships. The parent who genuinely loves the company of their child when the child requires lots of work and care will benefit from a more friend like connection once that child is an adult.
@@patryk6242 Or just maybe Mother's can be bad people too. I'm not sure what the difficulty is with understanding a lot of humans are bad people all parents are human you didn't deserve what happened
Not to mention the power dynamic between children and their parents. Growing up in an abusive, invalidating, controlling, toxic home for a child its survival and adults are in control. Children don't own as much responsibility for the relationship as adults and i've seen parents weaponize this as if the child had control over the dynamic, expecting them to be adults. As someone that is distancing i've asked, begged, cried for change and having the same skull crushing conversations over and over and being misunderstood over and over becomes self harm.
I totally agree! As a kid I was their emotional and physical punching bag, made to cater to their every whim. As an adult, I refuse to give any more of my precious time to them. I've given them enough
When I became an adult I realized it was very similar to growing up in a cult. The narcissistic parent is like the cult leader and keeps their tiny little follower (child) isolated and dependent. They love bomb, then abuse. Gaslight so much the child can’t distinguish reality from the reality the parent wants them to believe. And it’s terrible for development.
There comes a point, after trying different approaches, schooling your body language, keeping a soft tone, a loving but hurt gaze, reaching into the thesaurus and rewording and re-verbalizing the same statements again and again...that you accept "they're choosing to misunderstand and make assumptions about what I'm actually thinking/feeling. I can't make them."
@@reinelantz3304this is so not true, I think most of the parents that are cut-off, myself included, are not capable of understanding, especially if the parent has a personality disorder.
@@JanRobG I beg to differ. They know exactly why. They refuse to acknowledge why. They do not change their behavior-even those who temporarily change their behavior end up sliding right back into their toxic ways. If such parents have personality disorders, they still know that their behavior causes great harm. There is no excuse for toxicity and abuse. None.
As a parent who has been cut off, I have no idea why, I would have no idea what or how to change, so you may want to think that but I'm telling you that whatever " they" did wrong, unless it was abuse, "they" don't always know
My best advice for dealing with a parent like this, and dealing with their gaslighting, is to listen to your body. If you feel like you cant trust your memories or emotions, see how your body feels when you think of your parent or how it feels when their name pops up on your phone. Do you go into fight or flight? Thats how i know my mother is wrong.
I gave my mother's phone number a distinct ringtone so that I would know it's her when she calls. That gives me more time to decide whether I have the energy to talk with her (listen to her ramble on) right then.
The realization that i was a helpless child dependant on a 25 & 28 year old, hit me like a truck. I didn't know better because i was a child learning. How was i supposed to know how to regulate my emotions straight out of the womb
The main reason adult children go no contact is that those parents don't stop no matter how old their children are. Therefore false nemory is no valid argument. It is actually happening.
Exactly. They ask "can't you just let it go? It's in the past." But it's not just in the past, it's current events, happening right now, the same things again and again.
Every reason parents seem to attribute to the estrangement is so infantilizing. Like its a spur of the moment thing a moody teenager would do, and not a reaction to years of mistreatment. In and of itself, it proves that going no contact was the right choice. Not even after the ultimate consequences are they able to treat their adult child as an individual, nor are they able to self-reflect on their own awful behavior.
Bottom line abusive parents are not even worth your time and energy. I don't care what people say or think. You want a healthy environment cut of your toxic parents. I'm a socia worker people have no idea the trauma these innocent children go threw we have a long waiting list for these children to recieve therapy.
True, though it's worth noting that social workers often end up making things worse for the child in the long-term. Not always, but enough of the time. From my experience, anyways.
As a social worker, how do you think kids should handle them now that the world economy is a massive obstacle to those kids from achieving independence?
I went low contact with my parents not because of my childhood alone, but because of their refusal to acknowledge my childhood. I think when parents wrong their kids, in most cases, there's a way to remedy it, by simply apologizing and owning your mistake. My parents failed to do that and tried to blame me and even say I remembered it all wrong. And that was the last straw for me.
my dad has never once apologized for anything negative he’s caused me or my sister ever. i’m 22 and im so sick of it all. thankfully im able to go low contact by living with my mom but there’s still the fear and anxiety of being retraumatized by his gaslighting whenever we do have contact
Yep my mom would talk a big game around people but the shit rhat went on would fill a book. Im so angry with every adult involved who knew and did nothing.
Some of my saddest memories were of my parents being kind and considerate to my friends, and I would be standing right there, invisible, even on my own birthday. As a child I could never figure out what I needed to do to matter, and my parents may have been thinking that giving me a birthday party was extraordinary because they themselves came from families where children were lucky to survive childhood. I do think that parents, on some level, actually feel it when you give up on them.
This is so true. Suddenly it's like everyone is their friend and they bend over backwards to make themselves appealing to complete strangers. And then they tell you that you're "too harsh" on your mom. I've known her behind closed doors for 20 years. You knew her for a month. Who knows more here?
My mom is involved in every form of volunteer work and community service you can possibly imagine. She bends over backwards to do everything for everyone, except for her family. The house is a dump with her clutter everywhere, and she’s constantly guilting me and my sisters into running her errands for her because she has too much other crap going on.
@@aquilaaltaire Thats just a strategy to pit you against two needs; one is the approval of your friends and then their need to continue their shitty behavior. Its a way to cover their asses in case you decide to complain to your friends which they know you might do. Instead of trying to resolve what causes them to mistreat you, they set up traps for you to fall into so they can maintain control over you by pitting your need for distance from them against your need for friends.
When I went no contact, I stated EXACTLY why I was cutting my mother off. She called me through my dad's number 3 weeks later, stating everything she did wrong and apologizing, and asking to go to joint therapy with me. We have a very strong relationship now- Because she took accountability instead of running from it.
Same with my mother after my dad died. I wonder if her change was due to her realizing how neglectful she was and tried to overcorrect lol but whenever I tried to tell her I need space she got angry. I wasn't allowed to be honest with her ever. Because any critiques from me was an attack on her ego and parenting. "Oh so I'm just a bad mother huh?" "When your father died, I raised you all on my own!" "How could you say that to your own mother? I won't be around forever you know.."
@8:30 The author seems to forget that children are 100% dependent on their parents and can’t have an equal give and take relationship where “they have a responsibility too” for how the relationship goes. Even if the child is now an adult it’s still not the their responsibility to stop the parent from abusing them.
It's not your responsibility to stop abuse when you're an adult? I'm not following this line of thinking. Everyone is responsible for themselves in adulthood. Nobody is going to save you.
@@pisceananarchyvortex7223 Your right in your broad assesment, but "respnsibility" is meant as fault. And nobody is at fault if someone else abuses them. It's the fault of the abuser. Still, yes nobody is going to save you, so it lays in one owns hands to pull themselves out. But some try as hard as they might, there is just no escaping their situation...
@@dannyvalward1524There's another terrible thing with that. When you don't love yourself enough to help yourself. When it's been ingrained into you that you don't deserve better.
I cut off my mother after a lifetime of emotional, physical, and sexual abuse. The worst part was hearing over and over again by people around me that I was wrong because, after all, she was my mother. I walked away to save myself. I was 23 and never looked back.
I'm going through something similar right now. With my mother, there was sexual abuse and medical abuse (overmedicated). My father is a covert narcissist who emotionally neglected and abused me. I feel so wrong for not wanting to talk to them but I can't keep them around.
@@marwar819 When one person is incapable of accepting that they have done anything, ever, that might mean they are the asshole, then they assign blame elsewhere. Always.
My mother started physically assaulting me at the age of two. She traumatized me so badly, I still have memories from it. She was verbally, psychologically and physically abusive. It got worse when she remarried and had new kids. And she would sabotage me often. She would call into my workplace when I was a teen, and tell them I quit. And then she would scream at me for not having a job. I had no friends, I wasn’t allowed to have a personality or hobbies and interests. And my mother would constantly tell me I was lazy, blah, blah, blah. She neglected me so badly, I only recently learned I have adhd, which explains a lot of issues I had as a kid. I also have been diagnosed with ptsd. I cut her off over a decade ago, after she tried to convince me to divorce my husband because she didn’t like that we took his widowed father in. I’m doing better now, getting help and the sweetest part is, that evil creature doesn’t even know she has a grandkid now, and she never will as she made that choice all the way back when I was two. I do not feel guilt or remorse over cutting her off, and I had wanted to do it since I was a small child but couldn’t.
I have no love at all for my family. Hated them since I was 8 for the way they shouted and hit me and my sister. No love for them at all. I am thinking of starting a family. If I do, this child will be loved and protected.
I lived through every reason you mentioned for no contact, and I kept going back till one day I noticed my parent treating my children the way I had been treated. That was my straw.
oh yeah that's not remotely okay. grandparents are supposed to be the ones you like even more than your parents haha since they don't see you as much and the parents are the ones in charge of discipline. loved my grandma more than anyone else on this earth, rest in peace and love. wish I could talk to her as an adult so badly.
Yep same here both my parents and my husband's mom. Both had pretended to change in order to have access to our kids as new victims. We bounced a year ago and it is so amazing without their terrible influence.
I heard someone once say that a lot of people might internalize what their parents tell them, but they love their own kids and couldn't think of them as worthless or bad or whatever they were told, so it becomes clear how horrible the behavior really is
Another take on the "third party turning the child against the parent" explanation. I think there is a sliver of truth to this. My parents were highly controlling and abusive. I did not fully grasp this, though, until I came into a circle of peers from _healthy_ families. My college friends did not "turn me against" my parents, but the contrast between my parental relationship and that of _nearly everyone else_ I was spending time with made it possible to see and name the abuse.
When you are in hell and don't have any other perspective, you just don't see how bad everything is. Or when everyone around you have the connection with your parents, you can't talk to them, since it might circle back to them and you will regret it deeply
this is so true! I was in an abusive (100% a cult) band program in high school, and I had absolutely no idea until I went to a band camp at a college. I was having the best time of my life in high school, went to this camp, completely shattered my worldview. I realized I wasn't in fight or flight mode while playing at that camp, which was never the cast in high school. Sadly I was young and stupid and thought I could change things, did not go well. After much horrible abuse and years of therapy afterwards, I'm finally in a happy and healthy state in life. If you're debating whether or not to stay, try taking a break for a few months and see how you feel, then you'll know much better. My only real regret in life was staying in that situation that I knew deep down was not healthy, but I felt I had no options.
The only part that surprised me is that most of the adults children were willing to forgive their abusive parents. I cannot imagine ever forgiving them.
I would lie if I said that I didn't feel tempted to have them back in my life if things actually got better. I need to keep my adress a secret, can't be on social media, etc to ensure that they don't find me. It's exhausting. I am about to move to another country which makes me feel very reliefed. Yeah, and I do miss the idea of having a family. I can see how people would forgive their parents
same, but I guess it depends on the level of treatment that they received, and where they are in their stages of no contact grief! I will never forgive, the unforgivable!
My parents and older sibling NEVER liked me. At 57 years, when I went 100% no contact, it was easy. No one cared. I think the reality of how there was zero affection for me, as I had suspected all my life, was a harsh painful reality I could no longer sweep under the carpet in order to maintain a “relationship “ with them. However, it was the best decision I ever made. I have been growing a lot since going no contact.
Omg....that's Exactly what happened to me and what I did, except I was 59. Thought I was the only one. I'm glad I'm not alone. ❤ Haven't spoken to them ( mother and sister) since, and I feel like a HUGE Weight was lifted from my shoulders.
At some point you realize that you have to move on to become the adult you are. It is amazing to me how many people that hated the way their parents treated them go onto to treat their children the same way.
@@alooodundo1458 Exactly and make a vow. I am not going to be like that and subject others to that. Don't pass the curse onto the next generation. This accursed behavior stops with me.
at 57 years old, cutting off all contact with my mom was the healthiest thing i've ever done. these past two years have been so calm & stable. i really don't miss her at all & that's because it's become so clear to me, over this time, that i was doing all the heavy lifting in the relationship, mostly by constantly lifting her up. i granted all the grace & love that i wasted on her, to myself & it feels fantastic. it's also made me a better mom to my teenagers.
luckily mine passed a couple years ago when I was 25 so I don't even have to think about it anymore. Didn't even bother to get her ashes cuz I don't want that kind of negativity in the house. Congrats to you for spending that love on people who are worth it like yourself and your kids.
Failure to protect the child from abuse. Yeah. That's the description that describes my unnamed anger. Those are the words I was looking for. Thank you.
*Children are mirrors. I always feel annoyed and put off contacting or doing things for my parents, but that's exactly how they treated me. I hate the rhetoric that we don't hang out with family anymore. If you knew the amount of disrespect you have to accept for sake of "family", you wouldn't stay either. Also, a lot of parents see their kids as accessories and become furious when their toy isn't acting "correct".*
In the book Controlling People by Patricia Evan’s, there is a section about what she calls “the teddy illusion” which is exactly what you said. They play with their toy teddy bear and it always thinks and does what they want because it is their toy. They don’t see their teddy as an individual human being separate from them
Ì hope that if you become a parent, you will have learned the lesson and not follow the bad example of your own parents. Unfortunately I followed my parents bad example.
Parents be like "I love Christmas, because everybody has to be at my house listenening to my angry rants and nobody can do anything about it. Teehee" and then one year their adult child doesn't come visit and for some reason they are surprised about it and they believe it's an attack.
Lack of self reflection, introspection, and taking accountability are huge reasons why I cut off my parents. The relationship is one big gaslight. Estrangement is the most painful thing I have ever experienced. But it's even more painful having contact. My mother is detached and oblivious and not willing to hear what I have to say. She basically chose her abusive husband over her own children. She refused to go to therapy with me or to get a mediator to help us work through the issues. At 52 years old, I finally gave up. I also lost my brother in the process. Most painful thing ever.
My last straw was my father kicking my sister and her newborn out of the back apartment at his house after promising both of us that that wouldn't happen. This was after years of me trying to encourage a healthy and trusting relationship between us, since we're the only family we had where we were. His only reason was he wasn't "doing her any favors" letting her stay with him. She paid rent to him before thw time that she had her baby, by the way. I basically raised my sister during the worst of our parent's neglect, and seeing him treat her and that sweet baby so callously just broke me.
This hit home. There wasn’t one thing that my mother did, but a lot of emotional abuse over the years - yelling, anger, cruel words, every single time I trusted her. And then - loving words, overbearing kindness, acts of service,… but never acknowledgement, real apologies, and change - just another angry outburst the next time I was caught off guard. Nobody does this to me but my creator, how can I stay?
Omg yes! I found myself thinking that a lot "nobody else treats me like this" "nobody else I know would talk like that, act like that, attack people like that, be unreasonable like that..." And if they did, I'd distance myself from them too!
I hear u it got to the point where I can even think of her as a mom anymore now that I'm an adult and can't truly understand the damage and trauma everything she said and did caused me
Reminds me of Prof Vaknin saying that narcissists / narcissistic parents are at an emotional age between 2 and 6, some even 9, but most 3 at max, as some never got through separation individuation at that age and therefore have a very different view on what is external and internal, what is they and what not, sometimes even object impermanence (what i can't see isn't there), or without episodic memory, without 'ego'/a developed 'self'. For some people there is no way of comprehending that something like truth outside of their confabulated more or less static image of (their and all) existence exists, therefore relationships have to align with their image or otherwise their open wound of non existing ego is threatend to be felt, and there is not much else then rage, shame and guilt, emotions they are unable to deal with / integrate, as there is nothing it could be integrated into, if that makes sense to someone.
I begged my mom to self reflect on how she treated me and still does. We arrived at the conclusion, that she doesn't regret abusing me in my childhood and the effects of trauma I am dealing with in adulthood aren't consequences of her actions, but rather some inherent flaw I was born with. When I recounted things she did to me and expected any sort of remorse, I was called a "tormentor" and "a psycho" and told me to "get help". So I did. My therapist did an amazing job at helping me sever ties with my mother. I've never been more relieved. I do feel robbed of a mother and I do feel the unfairness when I see good quality parent-child relationships in my peers, but I accepted that having a parent who doesn't see me as a person but rather as a tool isn't worth it.
I learned a hard lesson in gaslighting when describing literal actions my mother objectively took resulted in the retort “wow. You’re a real sick puppy if you believe I could ever do that.” The hard lesson is that gaslighting isn’t always meant to actually work. It was simply meant to be so ludicrous that it would rile me up, exhaust me, and leave me feeling frustrated and hopeless. She wasn’t even trying to play with my mind to control the situation. She was literally just abusing me - causing harm intentionally because it felt good to her.
Amazing video. My "last straw" was seeing them having the same kind of behavior with my nieces and nephews. It made me physically sick. It was like realizing that if they could treat those amazing kids like this, then maybe I was not born a failure. Maybe my parents were just fucked up. Some memories came back to the surface too. They'd rather live in denial, never apologize, make all kind of excuses for third parties unacceptable behaviors and at the same time say it did not even happen ... And yet, even knowing this, I still feel the guilt of going no contact and have no desire to see them unhappy. Seeing how the denial/lack of responsability is so present in the "parent side" makes me feel less crazy. Thanks a lot for all your work, and lots of love to people going through this. Some days it'll feel like loosing a limb, but it does get better ❤
i’ve already threatened my mom that she’ll never get to see her grandchildren (she wants grandchildren so bad) if she doesn’t take care of my dog when i’m not there. When I have kids I won’t let them spend the night with her until they’re old enough to communicate things. I am going to teach them to set boundaries, especially with her and if she doesn’t respect the boundaries then they tell me and she won’t be able to see them. simple as that. she doesn’t seem to understand boundaries when it comes to me, but when I have kids I have every right to not let them see her if she can’t respect simple boundaries.
I was viciously beat by my mother during her BPD tantrums. It was scary how performative she was and how loving she seemed outside of the home. When it was just me and her she would bully me and push me away when I came to her for emotional support. She would scream at me for making her “feel like a bad parent” because I was anxious and dealing with sexual trauma from a family member she knew was dangerous. It was so bad I was convinced she was possessed by a demon when I was a child. Now she has the audacity to pretend to be heartbroken because my husband and I are going NC and will never let her be alone with our children. Thank God the Lord gave be the most beautifully loving in-laws and a caring and strong husband to get me through the NC process.
I can relate to that. They are awful to my sister’s kids when she isn’t around. It is sad how those disgusting pigs are so desperate to control them, to destroy their youthful energy, happiness, and enthusiasm and attempt to groom them. They do the same to their poor dogs too. They are all about creating mind control slaves. It got so bad with one of the dogs he became totally helpless, afraid of his own shadow and the poor animal went to seek comfort from them when stressed only to be abused and stressed out even more with insane fits of narcissistic rage. Running the poor animal down for the very behavior his abuse caused to begin with. Such vile, awful people who are so disgustingly arrogant they will forever remain in denial of how horrible they truly are. So awful in fact that after they die, satan will be begging God to take them out of hell.
I stopped talking to my mother last year. I couldn’t even come up with anything to tell her because I knew she’d just attack me and would not be receptive. She has absolutely zero self awareness and never takes responsibility for anything. She is also very conniving and manipulates everyone so I was always looking for other motives when communicating with her. She did steal from me on multiple occasions. I feel awful but I don’t want any of my family in my life. It’s a weird feeling to realize you’re completely alone in this world.
This is going to sound super cliche, but family are the people who are there for you. You don’t have to share blood with them, and just because you do share blood with a person doesn’t make them your family. If you have anyone in your life like that, keep them close and you won’t be alone. If you don’t, then work on things that enrich you and you’ll find yourself naturally gravitate towards people who may one day become that.
Hugely validating, thank you. Also, I’d like to add that the most dominant feeling I experienced when my mom died was relief, followed by guilt for feeling relieved. The guilt has faded but the relief remains.
I haven't had any contact with my two daughters for 10 years now. During this time, I've done a lot of work to change (therapy, self-reflection, journaling, reading etc). I know why we are estranged. I know all the things I've donefor the same reasons you mention. Finally seeing the light, I was beside myself with grief, remorse, and embarrassment. At first, I couldn't see that I did anything wrong. As I did the work, it all became crystal clear. I should have estranged myself from my parents before I ever had them and earnestly try to break the cycle. I was so broken but I kept hanging around, traumatizing myself and everyone around me with bad behavior. I know I won't see them again but I'll always love them. I google them from time to time and they are doing well. I'm glad they broke the cycle. And if no contact with me made them better people, then more power to them.
4 місяці тому+19
First of all I congratulate you for the fact that you worked on yourself and finally understood what made them leave. I left my father 6 years ago and my mother died 20 years ago, so I only had him but I couldn't stay anymore, his behavior was very abusive and everyone around defended him because none of them knew who he was behind closed doors. I wish he would do some work on himself but he wouldn't, he would rather tell me that my mom hated me from beyond the grave than admit he was at fault for anything. If you think you changed, really changed, I don't see why not talk to your daughters, or at least try to. If my father could understand, I would give him a last chance to be in my life, even after all the hell I lived with him, but I do not have this option. Let your daughters know they do have a choice to make and respect whatever they decide.
You are stronger than you know. To respect their autonomy and to face yourself. One thing that’s not mentioned much in the comments is our own participation in the cycle of abuse. I went no contact years ago, but it took me time to recognize my own abusive tendencies. At a certain point, I can’t blame my mom for my own behavior; in the same way that I want my mom to stop blaming her parents and me for why she can’t make things work. Others might do things that trigger you, but your reaction is your own: you own it and it belongs to you and no one else. It is also the only thing you can take control of. Anyway, I have put self-CHANGE as my number one priority above other life goals in order to break the cycle, and I’m so proud of you for doing so as well. Our mistakes and misdeeds are behind us, but we are committed to not making them again.
@k.upward Thank you for your kind words. It's cliche, but one really has to be the change you want to see in the world. It's an ongoing journey that will end only when we take our last breath.
"Grieving a parent they never had" strikes a chord - 16 years on it's hard to remember why things were *that* bad in the absence of obvious abuse, but the fact there's just a lack of any positive memories at all is telling.
My parents were obnoxiously attractive and young sociopaths who only existed for self gratification. They made me VERY aware that I was not as cool a kid as my super sociopathic sister, and My dad often said that because I was not "great" with girls during high school that I MUST be gay, and I should just come out because he is a liberal dude and that would make him look like a hip dad....needless to say, I stopped talking to them after I was told I need to move out the day after high school graduation. I only JUST started talking to my mom the last 2 years, and although she is extremely apologetic, I 'm not spending holidays over there or anything, we don't even talk on birthdays. Also, I'm turning 46 in May, so it was a VERY long time I did not talk to any of my immediate family.
That’s awful, my father’s side of the family is like that. They’ve always been popular with people and because I’m an introvert and became anti-social due to bad experiences, they think I’m lazy or scared of life. I recently talked to them again after 8 years, that was a mistake, seems they’ll never change.
i feel like the way parents handle nc really highlights how punitive narcissistic behavior can be. like i’m not ignoring you to punish YOU, I’m ignoring you to save myself.
I didn't have that deep sense of loss until i visited a friend's house and witnessed the low-key beautiful ways her family interacted with each other. Nobody's hair was on fire. Nobody slammed doors or kicked the dog. Nobody stormed out in a huff. I could tell these people liked each other. They had favorite colors and clothes that fit and had plans for summer. When you live in daily chaos, it's like visiting a different planet. I can't even imagine who I might have been.
Find out and do your thing now. In the end, adversity is an important component to learning and becoming. Check out Dr Albert Ellis' work. Watch videos of him like How to Deal with Difficult People, etc.
At some point, you just accept the fact that you will never be treated with respect. Your boundaries mean nothing to a self absorbed parent. Last straw for me was when my aging mother wanted me to leave my job, home, and husband to move across the country and be her caretaker. She doesn't care that it would ruin my finances and my marriage. When I said no - she broke off contact... won't answer my calls anymore. For the record - I have been asking her for years to move closer to me so I can take care of her... but she always refused. She thinks it is my duty to "come home".
@@angelaarco8170 I was even told that outright. "The reason you have kids is to have somebody to take care of you in your old age." And apparently never mind if you're extremely abusive to those children, they are there to be slaves anyway. Their whole lives.
My mom neglected me just so id be around because she is afraid of rhe dark. Gettinf away with three disabillities is inpossible wirhour smith and wesson. Its a long story that doesnt matter really
This is so affirming and comforting. I have not talked to my biological father since 2008 and I honestly don’t miss him. He’s the reason why I am always skeptical whenever a parent tells me they’re estranged from their child and they don’t know why their child would stop speaking to them. Thank you for this video!
Narcisitic parents see their kids as their emotional babysiter or throphy and the parents are also verbaly abusive towards the child and overvalue the other sibiling. The kid absolutely despise the narci rageful mother. One of the things that parents dont realise is that kids eventually becomes adults and we are in the age of psycky consciouness. My mother was the exact same way I felt devastated for years expecting her to care about me but she expected me to mother her it was awful.
Yup my mother basically replaced me with my step-siblings then on her birthday got drunk and in front of everyone gave a big speech about her favorite son and favorite daughter and I've barely spoken to her since. Partly because I don't take phone calls from her after 7pm because she's probably drunk and angry about something, or done something to anger everyone and wants someone sympathetic to listen to her justify it. Almost certainly narcissistic personality disorder.
One time, my mother called me, ‘her emotional support animal’. She was very offended when I told her every adult is responsible for their own emotions.
The, "Well you weren't perfect either" argument is such bullsht. Obviously no kid is not going to be perfect. And being children, they lack maturity, knowledge, and wisdom- things adults are supposed to have. If you don't have the maturity or common sense as an adult to not get in a fight with your 6 year old, that's all on you as a parent, not on your child.
My dad always told me, “You aren’t perfect!” and “Stop thinking you’re perfect!” and many other variations. The strange thing is, I never claimed to be perfect. I never even thought I was perfect, and I’ve told him so many times. Nor did I expect him to be perfect. He seems to believe he is the perfect one… lots of projection!
It's exhausting how the extended familial backlash is coming to this very difficult decision. The collateral damage is compounding grief. Long after, still grieving, and finally arriving to a place where I can let go--with an opportunity to thrive. It's a painful journey, lonely & confusing. I am grateful to myself for doing the work to heal and recover from things that were never in my control. Addiction, abuse, neglect, cruelty, isolation, control, manipulation, silencing, being a child parent... No change, not betterment, no apology or admittance.
I got tired of my parents saying I was a terrible child. My mom said my birth was horrible and it’s my fault. What? My dad enabled all this abuse and hit me and they have the audacity to wonder what happened. Unhealed adults are the real children. Healing thoughts to everyone here.
Six years of no contact and it saved my life... best thing ever! My husband and kids, our lil nuclear family are HAPPY 💖 There's nothing I want them to know. Traumatic childhood, my mom is NPD, they're all alcoholics and addicts. I need to protect myself and my children. Someone had to break the generational trauma.
So true, I went to rehab because of mine and all the bad people I manifested unconsciously due to the normalization of abusive treatment towards me. Now I seem to do better, my health is better. I want to work on choosing healthy friends and a husband.
“There is nothing I want them to know” THAT IS SO PROFOUND. My dad has trauma dumped to my brother and I since we were little kids. I don’t know why you’d want to expose your kid to something like that unless you’re trying to shame them into feeling ungrateful (aka what my dad did). The way you view it is NORMAL and it was almost a little healing to see you say that, because that’s how a true parent should feel.
Maybe why they don't have a relationship with their grandparents? It isn't trauma dumping, it is called being open and honest. Like say for example the parent was abused by a priest, there should be no shame in sharing. There is too much secrecy and shame and that helps, the abusers continue.
I am so happy that you have a wonderful family and bless you and your husband and children! Also relieved that you were strong enough to finally say enough and cut them off. Please don't ever fall for any 'sweet words' your mother may say to you in the future, it's only because she wants something. Wishing you the best and hope you have a long, happy life!
I'll repeat what so many others have already said about this video - spot on! I'm 34 and was the Only Child of a Single Mother. I find this is something that isn't spoken about much. As it seems the majority of people seem to have siblings and usually another parent. It's extra intense when it's only the 2 of you. I was everything to my Mum. Her Best friend, her partner, her parent. She had no friends or a partner. I moved out at 22 and I've been completely no contact for 3 years. My life instantly became happier as soon as I cut her out of it.
Same here! It's such a unique experience, especially when your parent had undiagnosed mental illness. My mom passed away, and it was such a difficult and complicated transition until I began to heal ❤.
This sounds like the situation my little sister is in (our parents got primary custody of one kid each during the divorce proceedings, and she was just a baby) and I want so badly to help her get out of that situation, but I also have my own life and massive overload of mental fuckery to deal with, which I am already constantly overwhelmed by, so I don't know how to even begin to do that. Mum acts like this to a T-- untreated mental illnesses, treating her daughter like her partner and best friend, not teaching her how to drive, not installing internet access at the house, not letting her go places alone, homeschooling her and then saying she'll help with college admissions processes and then never doing so...
What you said about the guilt and heartbreak the adult-child feels when going no contact is so true. For nearly a year I continually second guessed almost everything that ever happened in our relationship, wondering what I could have done differently and if I did the right thing. I tried to make our relationship work really all my life, and it was so heartbreaking to accept I had to go no contact for my own mental health. I realized I had been working relentlessly to please them my whole life, and nothing would ever be enough. My parents do blame my husband for turning me against them I’m told by my siblings, but they don’t realize he pushed me to try with them for so long and hated to see things come to this as much as I did. The final straw was they insisted I lied to them (I didn’t) and after explaining the situation over and over for weeks, I told them I had explained enough, they had to choose to believe me or not but I couldn’t keep hashing this out every time I saw them. She said she wouldn’t believe me, so I walked away. She couldn’t even give me, her own daughter, the benefit of the doubt and chose to believe I was a malicious liar. She could never see me for who I really am.
The last straw for me was their utter refusal to apologize for the abuse and neglect, and their insistence that **I** was the one who needed to apologize to them.
@Larissa-eo3pt same. I gave mine a chance, and told them what they did wrong, and explained that I needed space. They are still demanding apologies from me a year and a half later (and just hitting my spam filters). They can never ever accept that they fucked up, it always has to be our fault.
That's ultimately the main reason I'm low contact with my dad. He's proven time and again that he will never respect my life choices unless they're the ones he wants me to make, and the only way to live freely as myself is to have minimal contact with him.
Parents who have been intentionally estranged by their children absolutely know what they've done. I've repeated myself over and over to my parents about my grievances with their abu$e since I was a young teenager and they'll go to the grave acting as if I up and dissappeared into thin air like it was a 60 Minutes episode. It's just more gaslighting on their end, and I hope anyone who's reading this and stays up at night asking themselves if there's a chance their parents really didn't understand what they did wrong, they'll read this and know that them pretending they don't get your tireless explanations is just another act of abu$e. They don't want to get better and nothing you do could make them anyway --they have to want to change on their own. I hope one day you stop letting yourself be tortured and you find peace.
@@atheistbewildered2987 oh, yes, they DO understand what they’re doing and why they’re doing it. That’s why they’re psychopaths and sociopaths. They take actual pleasure in what they’re doing. It’s all a game to them.
In another video, Dr. Ana rightfully pointed out the problems with some of the current rhetoric around narcissism these days. At the same time, however, a lot of the online resources on narcissistic parents literally saved my life. I had been in therapy my whole life, but that therapy was controlled and leveraged by my parents. Without the information and resources I found in online spaces, I would have never in a million years realized that my family system truly was toxic and was never going to listen or change. I miss having my parents and have compassion for the experiences that led them to be the people they are, but I also need to be OK.
I’m a mother who has been shut out. I’ve kept communication with him open. I have wholeheartedly apologised for my words and actions which have negatively impacted my son. One time we both sat and cried after which I thought we’d turned a corner and were working towards a better relationship. He’s 32 now and I have zero response to my emails . He knows I have been diagnosed with bi polar disorder and much calmer due to prescribed medication. Also just to note, I solo parented my son using some of the techniques you described in trusty husky, they worked up until puberty. At about 12 he seemed to change into a different person. My regret is that I didn’t get more help to understand the changes he was experiencing. I know I could have done better as a parent, I wish some words had remained unspoken and some actions were reversible. I have taken responsibility for my own part in our relationship and I do hope that one day we will be able to laugh and cry together. I’m open. I’m on his timetable.
It’s crazy how their psyche are not strong enough “to take responsibility” , minimal acknowledgment… , but they will not hesitate to do the damage AGAIN while playing dumb and hoping they can get everybody to conveniently hate who they hate
As far as my personal experience, I tried for decades to communicate with my mother about things she did/continuing to do that were hurtful and not ok. We're not totally estranged, but I'm definitely low contact with her, and she to this day doesn't understand why we're not close like her friends are with their adult children. It's not because there was a lack of a communication, but because there was an unwillingness to listen on her part. I think a lot of parents whose kids don't talk to them feel like they don't HAVE to listen, then act surprised when the relationship implodes.
My grandmother not only doesn't listen, but when I've confronted her on the fact that she doesn't listen she denies it and continues not listening. She will never listen because then she would have to face her wrongs, which I could forgive if she admitted them, acknowledged them and apologized for them. Her unwieldiness to listen ironically is just a continuation of the same issues.
The line about becoming mute or crying to collapse after an interaction really hit home. I couldn't stand to let anyone tip me into that kind of spiral, and since estrangement, it rarely happens. It's truly the best thing I did for myself, not giving them that power over me.
No one cuts off family lightly. The emotional toll is high. You usually get ostracized by the rest of the family especially if you are claiming abuse. To cut someone off risks disinheritance and the loss of support from your entire extended family.
All new parents should watch this. I appreciate you covering this topic. Meaningful point about adult children not missing the parent they had but rather the parent they DIDN’T have / wished they could have had 😢 Tough topic
I honestly didn't really think about how I've gone low contact/gray rocking until this video. I've heard the terms before, and I think it's just kinda happened naturally. Not so much of a conscious effort to reduce contact/reduce information they receive about me from me, just has happened over the years. I talk to them less and less.
Me too! I remember my mom lecturing and yelling at me and I would scream my replies to her in my mind with the most blank look on my face I could manage because talking back would have got me smacked or made the yelling go on longer. She would never really hear me anyways. I never thought about that as greyrocking but I guess it kind of was.
Good for you. It’s the only way. I realized recently I learned how to grey rock when I was 7 years old bc I couldn’t tell my mom anything. So painful. Cheers
I rarely tell people I fully cut contact with my parents because they often believe I made this decision rashly and immaturely. Its a last resort. My safety, my sanity, and even my life were in jeopardy. Even when I was suffering hospitalizations and failing health from neglect and abuse, I was making an active effort to repair the relationship, communicate how their words and actions made me feel, set healthy boundaries, show them how much I cared about them, etc. But telling your parents "i dont like when you do that because it makes me feel like you dont care about my wellbeing" doesnt matter when those feelings are accurate conclusions. When those behaviors are intentional. I have NO family. No parents, no siblings, no aunts, uncles, or grandparents. They ALL sided with my abusers. This is not a life I wish on anyone. But I'm happier and safer alone and traumatized without support than I was in that environment.
Same here. They have all sided with them, despite the files with social services and the police. Mine deliberately made me ill. Social workers would ask why. And get a blank face. My health is now pretty good, no issues recurring, life is good. Teaching oneself phrases such as “i don’t give a fig” etc is also good. I wish I had decided to not care many years ago. Onwards and upwards. Friendships and more are out there for you.
I know someone that cut their parents off completely. Best decision of their lives, even if it was difficult and painful, remains painful. But it's less painful than continuing that relationship. They would cry and be depressed for a few days every time they had contact with them. The gaslighting and passive attacks from the parents was really bad for their child's mental health.
Parents need to realize they don’t own their kids just because they are responsible for taking care of them. The kid is a human being, not a possession-with impossible expectations to make the parent happy, as if the child owes the parents for having sx and creating a child. They’re not a punching bag or there to fill their parents trauma void they don’t want or believe they have. Children deserve rights and respect too, not just adults. “Estranged” suggests there was closeness at one point but the reality is many times adult children who go no contact with their parent always felt like a stranger in their childhood house (not a “home”). An internal feeling of orphanage and “homelessness” despite outside public appearances.
I had to go no contact with my narcissist abusive Mother when I was 19 for my sanity and self preservation. We haven't spoken in 35 years. I don't feel regret as I felt it was my only choice, I only feel sad that I didn't have a Mom/Daughter relationship all my life.
@@amberinthemist7912 We do things in our own time. I don't think they want it to get better, it's all about control. I hope you are in a better place now ❤ I am really now just letting go, of all of the negative feelings, and bad memories. It does us no good to carry that around with us. I like to say "The best revenge is living well" Sending hugs and love to you.
I'm really happy to hear that. Take some time to heal and live your life the way that YOU want to. I wish I had cut mine off sooner and we'll always have those kind of regrets, but the future is ours, so we should live the hell out of it! Best wishes to you.
Distance myself from my narcissistic father who thinks he can't do any wrong . Plus he's been a deadbeat most of my childhood and was friends with my enemies . Plus he loves gaslighting and playing mind games , plus he's very hypocritical , uses favoritism , turns people against me etc .
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Thank you for this video!
Estrangement from siblings is probably very similar
There’s something wrong with the audio on this video. It keeps cutting out, is distracting from your message and making the whole presentation virtually unwatchable.
Is it possible for you to re-record this, making sure the audio isn’t cutting out?
Thank you
You also have to factor in Social Contagion as well.
When children, or young adults really want to fit in with their peers, they often adopt values that are antithetical to their parent's values or even toxic to themselves.
Social Contagion is also a major issue.
Also, we live in a time where public schools are pushing values onto children that are antithetical to their parent's values, and often undermine the parent/child relationship. This is starting to happen more often than not, where teachers will push their values onto their students and hide it from the parents. Gender, political, social, etc values are now being enforced in public schools without the parents even knowing about it, and some public school faculty will go as far as to tell their students not to tell their parents, to hide what they are being told and taught.
This pits the child against their parents which often leads to children or young adults going " No contact" with their parents.
I misread your name - The P became an L after Ana. I could not imagine how that went. Ha!
I didn’t shut them out to teach them a lesson. I shut them out because I learnt my lesson.
Well said ❤
Amen!
FACTS
*learned
Learned my lesson not learnt.
“Estranged” is a funny word because, growing up in an authoritarian household with plenty of physical, verbal, emotional abuse, it’s not as if my family and I were ever close. I was just stuck there.
That was my experience too put succinctly, I don't have anything to miss, the only thing I grief is my wasted childhood.
That's a good way of putting it! 💗
Oof. That hits.
Exactly!!! Couldn't have said it better. I realised as an adult - the ' big scary world'was like buttercups and rainbows compared to what I grew up in! I started to realise I feel safer outside of the family because I am. But Stockholm syndrome is real and it took me 40 yrs to get over
Sucks though when I think back and wonder since what they said was love for me…was far from it….i wonder what live really feels like….i loved them …why did I give them that energy when they gave me the opposite….
Expecting an abusive person to actually believe and admit they're abusive is where everyone goes wrong.
Yea they see it as an attack and focus only on defending themselves
💯
@@Ashley-yy3deOr they see their behavior as normal and can not comprehend why it is hurtful. They are simply bewildered that one is hurt by gaslighting or blatant mockery.
@@wisecoconut5 yup. That's how it was for me. It's awful.
@@Ashley-yy3de They do not recognize an olive branch. Their loss, felt by us.
I didn't break off contact with my mom to punish her, I did it to stop punishing myself.
Perfect
Same as me and they never learn
It gets to a point where you must protect your own health and life
It feels so freeing to let go of the hope I was holding onto and realise I won't have a nice mother-daughter relationship with my mum. Even though I really wanted that
Ditto!
"I didn't break off all contact to hurt her, I did it to become a person."
100%
We know that these people can’t hurt in a way that normal humans would. Any hurt would be because they can’t get what they want from us anymore. They’re incapable of true connection.
Yup, and sometimes the parents use your siblings as weapons to gang up you, so there’s an entire toxic family system that you have to walk away from to become a real person. I never knew how to heal or feel true happiness until I left ALL the abusers. I remember them on every holiday & birthday by saying a prayer. Since the disconnect, I’ve found much better relationships and cherish the real love in my life. That’s enough.
Yup! After decades of being dehumanized, I’m learning how to be human.
@@eliwahuhi me too. 🫂
@@dawnpaap7704 facts.
People underestimate how prevalent abuse is.
The idea that parents can't do wrong and especially mothers and always the kids are at fault like if kids should be the ones to educate their parents and teach them how to treat them is vicious.
Ain't that the truth!
Yep
Word. Even the researchers. That line about "oh their attributions may not have been accurate" really pissed me off.
Crazy
Having grief for the parents you never had is rough.
What generation is everyone talking about? I'm a baby boomer and the thinking is different.
💯
@@Rottimail funny, cause it's your generation,
@@Rottimail I'm a baby boomer, too, and I find this 'spot on.' I don't think it's specific to any particular generation.
@@thouston53 Okay.
I think a big reason parents tend to blame a third party for their kids cutting them off is that they are incapable of viewing their kid as a full person. Thus, they cannot imagine their kid making such a decision - or any decision, for that matter - independent of some kind of outside, “nefarious” force. It’s really disgusting, honestly.
Gosh I relate so much. X
Good point, they cant fathom that they have self respect and understand that they have needs as well.
And that would be a big cause of going no contact. If you don't see me as a real person capable of having opinions, why bother staying in contact? Even if the parents can be convinced that issue X is acceptable, they'll go back to treating you as a non-person when there is a disagreement on issue Y or issue Z.
That is an absolutely excellent point!
Yep, and spot on, coming from someone raised by *_both_* parents with a whole lotta 'unlived life'!
_"The greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of its parents." - Carl Jung_
"You weren't perfect either."
I was also a child??
They dont see a difference between adults and children
Yes, narcissistic personality styles see children as selfish or broken adults
They equate not abusing your kids to perfection 💀
and when i asked for him to just talk to me and explain things like he would to another adult he somehow threatened with treating me and speaking to me worse
My father's justification: "I paid your school fees".
Thats what you supposed to do! Yet he acted like somehow that was a great achievement
I feel like no one talks about an abusive childhood then the "nicer" parents in adulthood. You're stuck in permanent limbo remembering the crap they did to you then, while they are helping you or being nice to you now. It's a feeling I don't have words for.
OMG THIIISSSS, and they go “why don’t you talk or come around often?” In that infuriating feigned ignorance
life was better as a child than as i got older it got worse
THIS. And I feel like shit for being angry/resentful when they are being so nice now. Like why can't I be the bigger person and accept them for who hey are, instead of getting hung up on who they were?
@@wen6519 partly because you lost out on a lot of life because of them.
@@wen6519 because they weren’t as kind and introspective as you are
Children don't just self orphan themselves for the heck of it.
This.
This is the quote ❤
they do if their 'tribe' appeals more
@@GaZonk100 what is a "tribe"?
Adult children can't be orphans😮
"It's never just one person's fault " - I was a CHILD. I was not equally at fault for the bad relationship with my mother.
you were not AT ALL
I'm glad that segment was covered because it didn't feel good to me either.
Right! We were children! Why did we have to be the bigger person when it came to how adults were treating us.
A lot of parents are uncomfortable with this truth. They can’t be accountable for creating a whole human.
Then dont be
No contact is a form of setting a boundry so the other person is no longer able to harrass and/or abuse.
THIS. This right here. It's the ultimate boundary that must be set when no other boundaries are respected by the personality disordered parent.
I see a lot of comments with narcissistic parents and in my experience, narcissistic parents don't even understand the concept of boundary setting. They don't engage with your will, because theirs is the only important one.
My mother was a narcissist with a quick and frequent temper that would flair when I didn't do or act like she wanted. God help me if I somehow embarrassed her in front of friends or family! As I became an adult, I started to understand her issues and just dealt with her to keep the family relationship. But when she started using her temper on my 6 year old daughter, that was the "straw that broke the camel's back". When I "set the boundary" by cutting off most of our family contact with her, the didn't have to wonder why because I told her why. That didn't change her perspective or behavior one iota and she continued to blame me for the rift in our relationship and for barely keeping touch for all of my adult life. Late in life, she developed dementia and would tell friends and family what bad son I was and that she hadn't heard from me in years when in fact, it may have only been days or weeks since I had spoken to her, but that perception was her reality. Maybe it's not right to expect people to change to meet our needs, but if they won't, then sometimes it's necessary to protect ourselves and our loved ones from their abuse.
Such immature selfish comments. Self-centeredness is destructive for everyone involved.
@@marwar819 lol what presents are your kids getting you for their birthdays?
To anyone who is a parent and says "you weren't perfect either"
That might have been true, but also, THEY WERE A CHILD AND IN NO WAY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE WAY YOU CHOSE TO TREAT THEM.
that's my moms go to. she defends herself and blames me.
So well said.. it's not even just that I was a child, THEY ARE* AN ADULT. Like... seriously? So fucking ridiculous lol
My mother tried to do this, texted my sister crying "I wasn't perfect but I was the only one there" ummm miss gurl we weren't even born yet we didn't choose to make you become a single mom by having children in unstable hookup type scenarios 💀 And she was highly ab*sive on top of. I understand she was young, mentally ill, and didn't have the resources required. But children are not responsible for choices that adults make, and we don't ask to be here
Yep - have heard that one a lot. The best time was recently when I decided to tell her how I was SA at 13 by a 31 year old and her response - “that’s your fault, and don’t blame me” ummm I didn’t mention her at all. The defensiveness was strong.
Truth! One was the adult, other was a child.
my mum told me to get out, so i did.
three years later i saw her again and she said "i didn't mean for good".
well, that wasn't made clear.
@@cj2130 to be fair, she had no choice. 3 years later was when i saw her next
May be you treated her like trash?
Well, than its a good thing they moved out isn't it? Also parents saying "stop disrespecting me" as a response to the most mundane basic words and phrases is literally a universal thing. At a certain point you don't give an f if your parent is upset or not, especially if they continue to disrespect you all the time. So you might also be right @@Anastasia-nn5fy
@@Anastasia-nn5fy then why would she say "not for good".
sounds like a lot of people have left your life and you're trying to justify it
@@GameFuMaster you are wrong, I just witnessed it happen to someone in my family
I use to tell my mother as a child and teenager “if you keep acting like this, you won’t see me as an adult.” The abuse didn’t stop and I haven’t spoken to her in over ten years. It’s the only time in her life anybody has held her accountable for her bad behavior and it totally flummoxes her
Great job!
I was gaslit by my mom when I brought my dad's abuse up to her
You ROCK!
I bet there was a surprised Pikachu face
@@TheFlowerGirl13, that is so commonplace. I think either the mother can't handle it emotionally, or can't handle it practically (i.e., hasn't worked in years, has no workplace skills, has other kids to take care of, can't survive without husband's paycheck), or maybe both. So the abused kid gets sacrificed for the sake of "family stability".
When I finally went NC with my mother at 40, she had actually forgotten everything that had happened in my childhood, everything I'd told her that her husband, my stepfather, had been doing whenever she left the house. "We were all perfectly happy back then," she said. I don't know if she actually believed that or not, but it was the last straw for me.
Alot of parents need to understand it's not a sudden thing. Estrangement happens in childhood. You can't do anything about it when you're a kid. You can when you're a adult. So it may seem sudden but it's a failure on the parent to not properly connect to their kid.
Spot on!
YES THIS
well said
Exactly. Often abusers don't realize we're just going through the motions and are actually miserable. Or worse, they don't even care that we're miserable. As long as we go through the motions to maintain their reputation - They couldn't care less.
I finally left because I was sick of waiting to be treated like an adult.
another thing nobody ever talks about is that nobody WANTS to leave their family. no sane person wishes to leave unless they've literally exhausted every other option. one of the biggest voids in my soul is the space where my parents' (conditional) love used to be. i love my found family but there is an undeniable biological urge to want to be close to the people who put you on this earth. it's heartbreaking to find yourself unwanted after they're the ones who consented to your existence in the first place.
only person I've heard mentioning this was... Michael Franzese (ex-mob)
I don;t remember the video tho..
Do you wanna know the age I found out that most other parents don’t belittle their children physically abuse, tell them that they would be nothing without them, and that they are nothing without them?
I was 18!!!! I was 18 when I found out most of my other friends aren’t getting abused at at home!!! I thought beating your kids and calling them evil names was normal. And yes i was still getting slapped around at 18.
too real...
@@a.h.i267when i first told my classmates about the shit that happened at home i would kinda laugh about it because i thought it was relatable. my friends would say "dude.... thats actually really fucked up".
it took until well into high school for me to visit other kids' homes and see that their lives aren't a constant game of walking on eggshells and living in fight or flight mode. crazy.
Completely agreed.
I didn't go no contact because of my childhood. I went no contact because at 50 years old, they were still telling me that I wasn't enough and everything that was associated with me- my accomplishments, my children, my home, my dreams, was unworthy of their acknowledgement.
Well done..the hardest thing in the world
Wow, same here
My parents have never shown any interest in my life outside of milestones like joining the Air Force or getting married. I could start talking about something important to me, and event, and insight, whatever.. and the subject would be changed to whatever my mother had for lunch that day. I just learned not to share anything important or meaningful to me because it weighed in as less significant than a TV show or something other mundane thing they did that day.
For the record, I'm not talking about needy or long conversations. Just the basic 3-5 min versions (which I've learned to do) but still pretty much zero interest.
I would take this (my mother died last year) however, over the kinds of parents of adult children that get TOO involved.
It never made me sad that there was no interest in my life, but if she ever wondered why I rarely called..
Much the same here. I'm the head librarian for a large company (that happens to require a ton of documentation specialist/librarian types), a semi-pro painter who's only not a pro because I like my job, and married for 22 years now. None of that seems to matter much for some reason.
I decided it did and meandered off to be happy on my own.
My f****ing goodness
When I was a child, I didn't have imaginary friends, but when I reached my 60s I created imaginary parents for myself. They are calm, kind and love me just as I am, everything I never got when I was growing up. Some people would think it's crazy but it's comforting to me and doesn't harm anyone.
This is actually brilliant.
That's beautiful, and there's nothing crazy about this. I did the same thing when I was lying in a hospital bed, after a major surgery. I was in so much pain, physically and emotionally, and I asked myself "what would make it better?" I imagined loving, kind, caring, patient, attentive parents sitting next to me. That's all I needed. I was in my early thirties, and all I needed was to imagine having a loving mammy and a caring daddy to make the pain go away.
Having imaginary parents inspires me to become as loving and caring, towards myself and others, as the parents I made up in my heart. It's not easy, but it's happening. It's wonderful that you have this parenting love in your life now too ☺️
@@katharina... Thank you 💖
@@brooke_reiverrose2949 Thank you 💖
Brilliant. I’m trying but it’s hard. I will keep trying until those wonderful imaginary parents stick in my mind. I wish all the best to you.
I told my mom exactly why. Laid it out in full. She still sent me guilt tripping letters asking how long I was going to “punish her”. Those parents in the study also knew why. They simply rejected the why’s as valid.
Mine did the exact same thing when I sent letters
Essentially, “Can you get over it already?” Gee, why am I not in a hurry to reconnect with you…
I can't tell you how explicitly and carefully I always laid out my point of view as an adult when my dad and I would argue. I even told him one of the last times we argued that if he continued this behavior, I wouldn't engage with him anymore. I warned him multiple times. Told him exactly what I needed for us to have a healthy relationship. Narcissists don't WANT to work for a healthy relationship. They want your personality to perfectly align with their world view, their fantasy. Also dad being an alcoholic doesn't help.
My moms an enabler of my dad and i get "why are you punishing me for what he did" because youre still married to him and giving him excuses.
Why on earth would you read letters sent by someone you have rejected? Just throw them in the trash unread.
I think the sentiment of "both parties taking accountability" is a moot point in this conversation, because we are talking about the neglect of literal children. It is 100% the adults fault for these situations.
I didn’t think about this, it’s a good point
Soo.. it’s not like children CAN be bad people? 😏
@@Anastasia-nn5fy if a parent thinks that, they sure as hell aren't setting their child up for success.
@@Anastasia-nn5fy The child is developing, has little to no notion of anything vs. a grown a$$ person who has lived much longer and selflessly decided to have a kid
if the child acts in a "bad" way is up to the parent to correct the behavior without harming the child, not because the child should be over-protected but because the child is developing, there are different processes according to age and bad parents have no notion of that.
@@juanvaz8345 we are talking about adult children leaving their parents
I think it all comes down to pride. Too prideful to change. Too prideful to admit they’re wrong. These parents would rather lose their child than let go of this image of themselves in their head that isn’t real. Pretty sick. My parents sexually and physically abused me and I STILL gave them multiple chances to take real accountability and I would have forgiven them. I even tried to explain to my mom what gaslighting is and how she was doing it to me ( strongly do not recommend).
I, too, tried to explain gaslighting and projection and it did not go well for me either.
Talking to abusers, or explaining their behavior seems to ignite an explosive denial of the behavior and intensified treatment. #1 tip, never tell the abuser your secrets, your vulnerability like a crush, let alone dreams, hopes... they will take that knowledge and destroy you , your emotions, crush and destroy that dream, or hope for positive emotions in you. They extract your light, and dump their darkness into you. Protect yourself.
Thats so sad. Please stay safe from them.
@@cathycoryell2351100% my mom is not an attractive person. But I could never bring partners around because she’d flirt with them /hit on them /make them uncomfortable. Several people bailed because of it
Sometimes you really dont know you are wrong until its too late... its like living in fog sort of. Like you are not yourself. Can be mental illness or ptsd.
The fact that all the comments (and presumable viewers) are the adult children rather than the parents says a lot
I saw a few gaslighting people in other reply sections.
@@tongpoo8985ah, cool. Boomers. 😏
@@normanclatcher unfortunately my generation (z) has it's share of rotten parents as well. You wouldn't believe some of the things I've seen and heard.
@@tongpoo8985 I'm supposedly an early 'Z' myself.
Our parenting style as a collective may be horrible thus far, but. At least, _bare-minimum,_ we recognize this and can be trying to do better.
The parents did no wrong in their eyes. Blame shift only. The act of "meaning well" cancels all responsibility from abject failure. They'd rather call their own offspring unappreciative or crazy than to ever have messed up or been evil.
It shouldn't surprise me that blaming a therapist is common. That's what my mum did - said I have false memories of abuse from a therapist implanting them 💀
one of the most common perspectives coming from people who tend to be controlling authoritarian parents is that therapy is bad for children and teens (and often adults too, but especially children and teens). 🤨
Anything but self reflection 🙄
It is strangely ironic-they often gaslight you into believing you're "mentally ill" and "need therapy"...then you go to therapy and learn about emotional abuse and personality disorders and estrange from the family, NOW the therapist is the problem!
And they never see how illogical and extreme that sounds compared to the simple answer of "my child wanted to end the cycle of abuse".
My dad said this
I think parents need to understand that you can’t treat people (even your kids) like crap and expect them to want to be around them when they are finally old enough to have a choice.
I mean, it makes total sense when you do it to non-family members, so why tf are people expecting us to put up with that shit from our own fucking parents?!! What, do they think that we haven't been abvsed enough and need more of it?!!
As far as I can see from situations I've witnessed, the person expecting that from a child probably did it themselves with their own parents, and never realize they could leave, so it's hard to understand someone else being able to leave. But by leaving, you break the cycle.
straight up, simple as that. If every interaction I have with you is a negative one, then why would you be surprised that I rarely visit? And I know it's not me, because I get along with everybody else very well.
Honestly, I think toxic parents see their child as someone they can get away with treating like shit, because in their world, "blood is thicker than water" and anyone who's family is obligated to put up with everything and anything family members do, especially one's parents. Similar reason why bullies pick on someone they perceive as weak and/or having no power to retaliate. When an adult kid then cuts them off, it's like "Wh-- You can't cut off family!" "Watch me." "AWjhbsjbsg... IMPOSSIBLE!!"
@@tonichan89 Yep, that's it, exactly. Unfortunately, I can't erase them from my mind, but I don't physically need to have them in my life. There's absolutely nothing more to be said and as people in my situation know, we learn to become very self-sufficient at a young age because we don't have that stability other people get from their parents. It could be taken from us at any moment. So, we learn to adapt and also how to do many things when we're young. Trust me, after you start earning your own income and have a place to live, you do NOT need your parents.
The parent stating confusion for the reasons is iften just denial.
I'm low contact with my mom and she will always act confused why were not close and asks if I have a problem with her.
She actually has a detailed letter from me describing my point of view. She never engages with the points but claims she has no Idea what's going on.
Yeah, this is it perfectly. I'm low contact well after a few years of no contact. Two or three times in my life I showed her hard evidence of her abuse. The closest I ever got to an admission was when I printed out "characteristics of narcissistic mums" on parishmiller and asked her to read through it and as she did she laughed repeatedly saying things like "hehe I say this all the time" to direct quotes in the article.
But when I doubled down and said. If you admit that you do this how can you still deny that you ever abused me.
To which she would reply with something like "I never abused you! You are abusing me by accusing me of abusing you! No one can hurt our feelings if we don't let them hurt our feelings. If you think I hurt you that is just you making yourself hurt and blaming me!"
The level of mental gymnastics is really crazy. It just became much easier to accept I will never receive an apology and to act as if my childhood didn't happen to maintain a relationship. And as long as there is no power imbalance between my mother and I, she is aware she can't cross the line or I will go no contact again.
That is literally exactly what did with mine and the exact same response
relatable :( @@ThatSpazamataz when you say power imbalance, can you elaborate what that means?
This infuriates me to no end. My mother does the same thing. She asks me what's wrong and I tell her, and she just shrugs it off and keeps asking.
I did the letter as well. She still doesn't know why I am not close to her, she doesn't know what she did was so bad.
True story. A few years ago, my neighbor told me that some people parked their car in my driveway and that they had been checking out my house. I thought to myself, "They are probably looking for a house to rob; I don't having anything valuable enough to make it worth their time." I wasn't upset about it at all. After a few days, it occurred to me that it might not have been strangers -- but, rather, someone in my family showing up uninvited to my house. Unlike my previous conclusion, this immediately upset me. Then I reflected on my reactions. I was not upset at the thought of a stranger wanting to break into my house, but I was upset at the thought of a family member wanting to visit me. That helped me to realize that reducing contact was essential to my peace of mind.
I'm glad you came to the realization you did. When I came up on the same realization my entire outlook on life changed for the better.
Please invest in some security cameras. If it's a stranger looking for stuff to steal, you'll have evidence. If it's someone you need to get a restraining order against, you'll have evidence.
@@tealkerberus748 Good idea. Thanks!
I’ll shorthand it: don’t treat your kids like utter garbage when they are children, and then expect them to want to engage with you and have a relationship as adults. If a parent treated their friends and acquaintances like this, these people would never want to be around them again.
Why is this so difficult to understand for parents in the parent/child dynamic?
Absolutely correct. You reap what you sow with parent/adult child relationships. The parent who genuinely loves the company of their child when the child requires lots of work and care will benefit from a more friend like connection once that child is an adult.
It's too difficult for some people NOT to take advantage of a child's dependence.
They're twisted people.
As a child, my inner prayer was always "I wish my parents treated me with the same respect and courtesy as they do with their coworkers." They didn't.
@@lengarionDude same!
Im tired of everyone saying respect your parents. You dont understand how awful they were. We need to save ourselves.
I respect they choose to deal with life as they do, and them being in my life in that way just won’t work, bc I respect me too.
People fear anything that might take unearned respect from others because they are getting unearned respect and don't want to need to be accountable.
Same here. "How do you dare to have no respect and love for your mother. You are a bad son and a bad person!!!".
@@patryk6242 Or just maybe Mother's can be bad people too. I'm not sure what the difficulty is with understanding a lot of humans are bad people all parents are human you didn't deserve what happened
@patryk6242 Bless your heart. Hugs. You were the best son, they didn't deserve you.
Not to mention the power dynamic between children and their parents. Growing up in an abusive, invalidating, controlling, toxic home for a child its survival and adults are in control. Children don't own as much responsibility for the relationship as adults and i've seen parents weaponize this as if the child had control over the dynamic, expecting them to be adults. As someone that is distancing i've asked, begged, cried for change and having the same skull crushing conversations over and over and being misunderstood over and over becomes self harm.
I totally agree! As a kid I was their emotional and physical punching bag, made to cater to their every whim. As an adult, I refuse to give any more of my precious time to them. I've given them enough
You're not being misunderstood you're being gaslighted people do this s*** on purpose
When I became an adult I realized it was very similar to growing up in a cult. The narcissistic parent is like the cult leader and keeps their tiny little follower (child) isolated and dependent. They love bomb, then abuse. Gaslight so much the child can’t distinguish reality from the reality the parent wants them to believe. And it’s terrible for development.
@@StayAtHomeMemeyup
There comes a point, after trying different approaches, schooling your body language, keeping a soft tone, a loving but hurt gaze, reaching into the thesaurus and rewording and re-verbalizing the same statements again and again...that you accept "they're choosing to misunderstand and make assumptions about what I'm actually thinking/feeling. I can't make them."
Sometimes the parent not understanding the reason is a big part of the reason.
@@etherraichu they know. Believe me. They know exactly why we cut off contact.
They absolutely know but tie themselves into knots to make it everyone else’s fault.
@@reinelantz3304this is so not true, I think most of the parents that are cut-off, myself included, are not capable of understanding, especially if the parent has a personality disorder.
@@JanRobG I beg to differ. They know exactly why. They refuse to acknowledge why. They do not change their behavior-even those who temporarily change their behavior end up sliding right back into their toxic ways. If such parents have personality disorders, they still know that their behavior causes great harm. There is no excuse for toxicity and abuse. None.
As a parent who has been cut off, I have no idea why, I would have no idea what or how to change, so you may want to think that but I'm telling you that whatever " they" did wrong, unless it was abuse, "they" don't always know
My best advice for dealing with a parent like this, and dealing with their gaslighting, is to listen to your body. If you feel like you cant trust your memories or emotions, see how your body feels when you think of your parent or how it feels when their name pops up on your phone. Do you go into fight or flight? Thats how i know my mother is wrong.
Spot on! Your body knows!!!!!
I gave my mother's phone number a distinct ringtone so that I would know it's her when she calls. That gives me more time to decide whether I have the energy to talk with her (listen to her ramble on) right then.
cortisol poisoning basically
@@seabreeze4559 omg yes. I've never heard that term before but it truly is that
This is so accurate! When I see my parents' names under a call or text, I instantly feel dread...
I think the hardest thing after being in therapy for almost a year is realizing that they were a grownup and you were a child
yes
Mentally they're not an adult it's an illusion that you should realize as you grow older and emotionally mature self
More like an underdeveloped child in an immature bodymind of an adult.
Which is pretty similar definition to literally demonic possession..
The realization that i was a helpless child dependant on a 25 & 28 year old, hit me like a truck. I didn't know better because i was a child learning. How was i supposed to know how to regulate my emotions straight out of the womb
I relaized rhat without therapy. But im still screwed by my parents
The main reason adult children go no contact is that those parents don't stop no matter how old their children are. Therefore false nemory is no valid argument. It is actually happening.
Was thinking about this last night. So many parents want you to “forget” the past and move on but are currently causing hell in your life 😂
This is called gas lighting and a form of control. After going no contact with my parents my memory became really clear.
My MRI of a bad back isn't a false memory. Permanent injuries.
Exactly. They ask "can't you just let it go? It's in the past."
But it's not just in the past, it's current events, happening right now, the same things again and again.
Amen. That's the last straw, when the same behaviour just keeps repeating and they expect you to just continue rolling with it.
Every reason parents seem to attribute to the estrangement is so infantilizing. Like its a spur of the moment thing a moody teenager would do, and not a reaction to years of mistreatment. In and of itself, it proves that going no contact was the right choice. Not even after the ultimate consequences are they able to treat their adult child as an individual, nor are they able to self-reflect on their own awful behavior.
Bottom line abusive parents are not even worth your time and energy. I don't care what people say or think. You want a healthy environment cut of your toxic parents. I'm a socia worker people have no idea the trauma these innocent children go threw we have a long waiting list for these children to recieve therapy.
You are accurate and brave IMHO.
How can I give therapy for my son? I gave him enough trauma
True, though it's worth noting that social workers often end up making things worse for the child in the long-term. Not always, but enough of the time. From my experience, anyways.
🙏
As a social worker, how do you think kids should handle them now that the world economy is a massive obstacle to those kids from achieving independence?
I went low contact with my parents not because of my childhood alone, but because of their refusal to acknowledge my childhood.
I think when parents wrong their kids, in most cases, there's a way to remedy it, by simply apologizing and owning your mistake.
My parents failed to do that and tried to blame me and even say I remembered it all wrong.
And that was the last straw for me.
my dad has never once apologized for anything negative he’s caused me or my sister ever. i’m 22 and im so sick of it all. thankfully im able to go low contact by living with my mom but there’s still the fear and anxiety of being retraumatized by his gaslighting whenever we do have contact
One of the worst parts is always seeing them fall all over themselves trying to suck up to and curry favor with strangers
Yep my mom would talk a big game around people but the shit rhat went on would fill a book.
Im so angry with every adult involved who knew and did nothing.
Some of my saddest memories were of my parents being kind and considerate to my friends, and I would be standing right there, invisible, even on my own birthday. As a child I could never figure out what I needed to do to matter, and my parents may have been thinking that giving me a birthday party was extraordinary because they themselves came from families where children were lucky to survive childhood. I do think that parents, on some level, actually feel it when you give up on them.
This is so true. Suddenly it's like everyone is their friend and they bend over backwards to make themselves appealing to complete strangers. And then they tell you that you're "too harsh" on your mom. I've known her behind closed doors for 20 years. You knew her for a month. Who knows more here?
My mom is involved in every form of volunteer work and community service you can possibly imagine. She bends over backwards to do everything for everyone, except for her family. The house is a dump with her clutter everywhere, and she’s constantly guilting me and my sisters into running her errands for her because she has too much other crap going on.
@@aquilaaltaire Thats just a strategy to pit you against two needs; one is the approval of your friends and then their need to continue their shitty behavior. Its a way to cover their asses in case you decide to complain to your friends which they know you might do. Instead of trying to resolve what causes them to mistreat you, they set up traps for you to fall into so they can maintain control over you by pitting your need for distance from them against your need for friends.
When I went no contact, I stated EXACTLY why I was cutting my mother off. She called me through my dad's number 3 weeks later, stating everything she did wrong and apologizing, and asking to go to joint therapy with me. We have a very strong relationship now- Because she took accountability instead of running from it.
My parents now they’re needy like children they went from no interest whatsoever to intrusively interested
Same with my mother after my dad died. I wonder if her change was due to her realizing how neglectful she was and tried to overcorrect lol but whenever I tried to tell her I need space she got angry.
I wasn't allowed to be honest with her ever. Because any critiques from me was an attack on her ego and parenting. "Oh so I'm just a bad mother huh?" "When your father died, I raised you all on my own!" "How could you say that to your own mother? I won't be around forever you know.."
100%, from neglectful to obsessive
@@Sierra358god the go to "so I'm just a horrible parent?!?" YES you were and are!
I noticed this too. When I got older they got childish.
@@Ravenluvs It's just another manipulative strategy. Don't fall for it!
@8:30 The author seems to forget that children are 100% dependent on their parents and can’t have an equal give and take relationship where “they have a responsibility too” for how the relationship goes.
Even if the child is now an adult it’s still not the their responsibility to stop the parent from abusing them.
It's maybe not their "responsibility"... but most likely, no one is going to stop it, if they won't do it themselves.
It's not your responsibility to stop abuse when you're an adult? I'm not following this line of thinking. Everyone is responsible for themselves in adulthood. Nobody is going to save you.
@@pisceananarchyvortex7223 Your right in your broad assesment, but "respnsibility" is meant as fault. And nobody is at fault if someone else abuses them. It's the fault of the abuser. Still, yes nobody is going to save you, so it lays in one owns hands to pull themselves out. But some try as hard as they might, there is just no escaping their situation...
@@dannyvalward1524There's another terrible thing with that. When you don't love yourself enough to help yourself. When it's been ingrained into you that you don't deserve better.
This. If the person has responsibility, then they have the authority. Without one or the other either makes them a slave or a tyrant.
I cut off my mother after a lifetime of emotional, physical, and sexual abuse. The worst part was hearing over and over again by people around me that I was wrong because, after all, she was my mother. I walked away to save myself. I was 23 and never looked back.
I'm going through something similar right now. With my mother, there was sexual abuse and medical abuse (overmedicated). My father is a covert narcissist who emotionally neglected and abused me.
I feel so wrong for not wanting to talk to them but I can't keep them around.
Congratulations to anyone who managed to get out of an abusive relationship, specially with the abuser being a parent.
Narcissists rarely understand that they are the problem. It's always everyone else's fault.
It's not about who is 'at fault', it takes two to have a relationship and work love out.
@@marwar819 When one person is incapable of accepting that they have done anything, ever, that might mean they are the asshole, then they assign blame elsewhere. Always.
Their brains are wired a certain way
@@marwar819 how about no.
Some people you just cannot have in your life because they'll always find a way to hurt you
Not rarely. Never.
My mother started physically assaulting me at the age of two. She traumatized me so badly, I still have memories from it.
She was verbally, psychologically and physically abusive. It got worse when she remarried and had new kids. And she would sabotage me often.
She would call into my workplace when I was a teen, and tell them I quit. And then she would scream at me for not having a job. I had no friends, I wasn’t allowed to have a personality or hobbies and interests. And my mother would constantly tell me I was lazy, blah, blah, blah.
She neglected me so badly, I only recently learned I have adhd, which explains a lot of issues I had as a kid. I also have been diagnosed with ptsd.
I cut her off over a decade ago, after she tried to convince me to divorce my husband because she didn’t like that we took his widowed father in.
I’m doing better now, getting help and the sweetest part is, that evil creature doesn’t even know she has a grandkid now, and she never will as she made that choice all the way back when I was two.
I do not feel guilt or remorse over cutting her off, and I had wanted to do it since I was a small child but couldn’t.
You are very brave iv had problems with my mother I remember her literally kicking me from one end of the room to the other end .I was 3yrs old.
I have no love at all for my family. Hated them since I was 8 for the way they shouted and hit me and my sister. No love for them at all.
I am thinking of starting a family. If I do, this child will be loved and protected.
My earliest childhood memory is my father beating me up 😢
I lived through every reason you mentioned for no contact, and I kept going back till one day I noticed my parent treating my children the way I had been treated. That was my straw.
Same here. It’s bad enough I had to endure her I was not letting it happen to my kids!
oh yeah that's not remotely okay. grandparents are supposed to be the ones you like even more than your parents haha since they don't see you as much and the parents are the ones in charge of discipline. loved my grandma more than anyone else on this earth, rest in peace and love. wish I could talk to her as an adult so badly.
I heard this one from other people too, the mistreatment of their own kids is the last straw. I hope you're feeling better and more liberated now ❤
Yep same here both my parents and my husband's mom. Both had pretended to change in order to have access to our kids as new victims. We bounced a year ago and it is so amazing without their terrible influence.
I heard someone once say that a lot of people might internalize what their parents tell them, but they love their own kids and couldn't think of them as worthless or bad or whatever they were told, so it becomes clear how horrible the behavior really is
Another take on the "third party turning the child against the parent" explanation.
I think there is a sliver of truth to this. My parents were highly controlling and abusive. I did not fully grasp this, though, until I came into a circle of peers from _healthy_ families. My college friends did not "turn me against" my parents, but the contrast between my parental relationship and that of _nearly everyone else_ I was spending time with made it possible to see and name the abuse.
When you are in hell and don't have any other perspective, you just don't see how bad everything is. Or when everyone around you have the connection with your parents, you can't talk to them, since it might circle back to them and you will regret it deeply
The "normalization" of abuse seems to be a big factor in the cycle of familial alienation.
this is so true! I was in an abusive (100% a cult) band program in high school, and I had absolutely no idea until I went to a band camp at a college. I was having the best time of my life in high school, went to this camp, completely shattered my worldview. I realized I wasn't in fight or flight mode while playing at that camp, which was never the cast in high school. Sadly I was young and stupid and thought I could change things, did not go well. After much horrible abuse and years of therapy afterwards, I'm finally in a happy and healthy state in life.
If you're debating whether or not to stay, try taking a break for a few months and see how you feel, then you'll know much better.
My only real regret in life was staying in that situation that I knew deep down was not healthy, but I felt I had no options.
The only part that surprised me is that most of the adults children were willing to forgive their abusive parents. I cannot imagine ever forgiving them.
I would lie if I said that I didn't feel tempted to have them back in my life if things actually got better.
I need to keep my adress a secret, can't be on social media, etc to ensure that they don't find me. It's exhausting. I am about to move to another country which makes me feel very reliefed.
Yeah, and I do miss the idea of having a family. I can see how people would forgive their parents
It’s easy if they make significant changes and apologize. It also depends on the kind of mistreatment the parent engaged in.
same, but I guess it depends on the level of treatment that they received, and where they are in their stages of no contact grief! I will never forgive, the unforgivable!
Well... many times they're only repeating learned patterns from their parents.
@@mommalion7028apologise is the magic word, just don’t hold your breath waiting for it.
I didn’t know this phenomenon had a name, but your timing w this video helps me feel less lonely about the decision to be “free”.
🫂
Hugs!
❤❤❤
AKA parent alienation too
My parents and older sibling NEVER liked me. At 57 years, when I went 100% no contact, it was easy. No one cared. I think the reality of how there was zero affection for me, as I had suspected all my life, was a harsh painful reality I could no longer sweep under the carpet in order to maintain a “relationship “ with them. However, it was the best decision I ever made. I have been growing a lot since going no contact.
I can relate. Hope you’re doing well.
Peace and reason. ✌️
❤
🤗✨❤❤❤ big kudos to you love 💕
Omg....that's Exactly what happened to me and what I did, except I was 59. Thought I was the only one. I'm glad I'm not alone. ❤ Haven't spoken to them ( mother and sister) since, and I feel like a HUGE Weight was lifted from my shoulders.
Yeah my siblings never called. And I didn't expect them to. So long, strangers 🤷♂
At some point you realize that you have to move on to become the adult you are. It is amazing to me how many people that hated the way their parents treated them go onto to treat their children the same way.
Precisely what I explained to my father when I went no contact. He had a choice and he chose to pass on dysfunction. Consequences abound.
This. Identify, feel, readjust and move on. That's how to break the cycle.
@@alooodundo1458 Exactly and make a vow. I am not going to be like that and subject others to that. Don't pass the curse onto the next generation. This accursed behavior stops with me.
Yes exactly that's how it should be this trauma ends with me
at 57 years old, cutting off all contact with my mom was the healthiest thing i've ever done. these past two years have been so calm & stable. i really don't miss her at all & that's because it's become so clear to me, over this time, that i was doing all the heavy lifting in the relationship, mostly by constantly lifting her up. i granted all the grace & love that i wasted on her, to myself & it feels fantastic. it's also made me a better mom to my teenagers.
It's funny how 100% of the time the decision ultimately leads to peace and quiet.
luckily mine passed a couple years ago when I was 25 so I don't even have to think about it anymore. Didn't even bother to get her ashes cuz I don't want that kind of negativity in the house. Congrats to you for spending that love on people who are worth it like yourself and your kids.
Failure to protect the child from abuse.
Yeah. That's the description that describes my unnamed anger. Those are the words I was looking for. Thank you.
Same here, among other things. It feels good to be able to understand these things a bit more clearly
Same mixed with other stuff
That’s a sociopathic mother… too inconvenient and distuptive to protect you. She won’t abuse you directly only indirectly.
Hard Same.
*Children are mirrors. I always feel annoyed and put off contacting or doing things for my parents, but that's exactly how they treated me. I hate the rhetoric that we don't hang out with family anymore. If you knew the amount of disrespect you have to accept for sake of "family", you wouldn't stay either. Also, a lot of parents see their kids as accessories and become furious when their toy isn't acting "correct".*
In the book Controlling People by Patricia Evan’s, there is a section about what she calls “the teddy illusion” which is exactly what you said. They play with their toy teddy bear and it always thinks and does what they want because it is their toy. They don’t see their teddy as an individual human being separate from them
Ì hope that if you become a parent, you will have learned the lesson and not follow the bad example of your own parents. Unfortunately I followed my parents bad example.
Parents be like "I love Christmas, because everybody has to be at my house listenening to my angry rants and nobody can do anything about it. Teehee" and then one year their adult child doesn't come visit and for some reason they are surprised about it and they believe it's an attack.
Lack of self reflection, introspection, and taking accountability are huge reasons why I cut off my parents. The relationship is one big gaslight. Estrangement is the most painful thing I have ever experienced. But it's even more painful having contact. My mother is detached and oblivious and not willing to hear what I have to say. She basically chose her abusive husband over her own children. She refused to go to therapy with me or to get a mediator to help us work through the issues. At 52 years old, I finally gave up. I also lost my brother in the process. Most painful thing ever.
Same here
My last straw was my father kicking my sister and her newborn out of the back apartment at his house after promising both of us that that wouldn't happen. This was after years of me trying to encourage a healthy and trusting relationship between us, since we're the only family we had where we were. His only reason was he wasn't "doing her any favors" letting her stay with him. She paid rent to him before thw time that she had her baby, by the way. I basically raised my sister during the worst of our parent's neglect, and seeing him treat her and that sweet baby so callously just broke me.
He’s a sociopath.
This hit home. There wasn’t one thing that my mother did, but a lot of emotional abuse over the years - yelling, anger, cruel words, every single time I trusted her. And then - loving words, overbearing kindness, acts of service,… but never acknowledgement, real apologies, and change - just another angry outburst the next time I was caught off guard. Nobody does this to me but my creator, how can I stay?
Omg yes! I found myself thinking that a lot "nobody else treats me like this"
"nobody else I know would talk like that, act like that, attack people like that, be unreasonable like that..."
And if they did, I'd distance myself from them too!
Dude same! It just gets to a point where you don't even believe their "kind" actions and words because they're always superficial.
Yes that is exactly my dad. I think he has no control of his own actions. But he is too prideful to see it.
I hear u it got to the point where I can even think of her as a mom anymore now that I'm an adult and can't truly understand the damage and trauma everything she said and did caused me
“Their psyche is not strong enough” to process the conversations adult children want to have is a very profound and accurate observation.
Agree!
Reminds me of Prof Vaknin saying that narcissists / narcissistic parents are at an emotional age between 2 and 6, some even 9, but most 3 at max, as some never got through separation individuation at that age and therefore have a very different view on what is external and internal, what is they and what not, sometimes even object impermanence (what i can't see isn't there), or without episodic memory, without 'ego'/a developed 'self'. For some people there is no way of comprehending that something like truth outside of their confabulated more or less static image of (their and all) existence exists, therefore relationships have to align with their image or otherwise their open wound of non existing ego is threatend to be felt, and there is not much else then rage, shame and guilt, emotions they are unable to deal with / integrate, as there is nothing it could be integrated into, if that makes sense to someone.
I begged my mom to self reflect on how she treated me and still does. We arrived at the conclusion, that she doesn't regret abusing me in my childhood and the effects of trauma I am dealing with in adulthood aren't consequences of her actions, but rather some inherent flaw I was born with. When I recounted things she did to me and expected any sort of remorse, I was called a "tormentor" and "a psycho" and told me to "get help". So I did. My therapist did an amazing job at helping me sever ties with my mother. I've never been more relieved. I do feel robbed of a mother and I do feel the unfairness when I see good quality parent-child relationships in my peers, but I accepted that having a parent who doesn't see me as a person but rather as a tool isn't worth it.
I learned a hard lesson in gaslighting when describing literal actions my mother objectively took resulted in the retort “wow. You’re a real sick puppy if you believe I could ever do that.”
The hard lesson is that gaslighting isn’t always meant to actually work.
It was simply meant to be so ludicrous that it would rile me up, exhaust me, and leave me feeling frustrated and hopeless.
She wasn’t even trying to play with my mind to control the situation. She was literally just abusing me - causing harm intentionally because it felt good to her.
Amazing video. My "last straw" was seeing them having the same kind of behavior with my nieces and nephews. It made me physically sick. It was like realizing that if they could treat those amazing kids like this, then maybe I was not born a failure. Maybe my parents were just fucked up. Some memories came back to the surface too.
They'd rather live in denial, never apologize, make all kind of excuses for third parties unacceptable behaviors and at the same time say it did not even happen ... And yet, even knowing this, I still feel the guilt of going no contact and have no desire to see them unhappy. Seeing how the denial/lack of responsability is so present in the "parent side" makes me feel less crazy.
Thanks a lot for all your work, and lots of love to people going through this. Some days it'll feel like loosing a limb, but it does get better ❤
Yes.
i’ve already threatened my mom that she’ll never get to see her grandchildren (she wants grandchildren so bad) if she doesn’t take care of my dog when i’m not there. When I have kids I won’t let them spend the night with her until they’re old enough to communicate things. I am going to teach them to set boundaries, especially with her and if she doesn’t respect the boundaries then they tell me and she won’t be able to see them. simple as that. she doesn’t seem to understand boundaries when it comes to me, but when I have kids I have every right to not let them see her if she can’t respect simple boundaries.
I was viciously beat by my mother during her BPD tantrums. It was scary how performative she was and how loving she seemed outside of the home. When it was just me and her she would bully me and push me away when I came to her for emotional support. She would scream at me for making her “feel like a bad parent” because I was anxious and dealing with sexual trauma from a family member she knew was dangerous. It was so bad I was convinced she was possessed by a demon when I was a child. Now she has the audacity to pretend to be heartbroken because my husband and I are going NC and will never let her be alone with our children. Thank God the Lord gave be the most beautifully loving in-laws and a caring and strong husband to get me through the NC process.
I can relate to that. They are awful to my sister’s kids when she isn’t around. It is sad how those disgusting pigs are so desperate to control them, to destroy their youthful energy, happiness, and enthusiasm and attempt to groom them. They do the same to their poor dogs too. They are all about creating mind control slaves. It got so bad with one of the dogs he became totally helpless, afraid of his own shadow and the poor animal went to seek comfort from them when stressed only to be abused and stressed out even more with insane fits of narcissistic rage. Running the poor animal down for the very behavior his abuse caused to begin with. Such vile, awful people who are so disgustingly arrogant they will forever remain in denial of how horrible they truly are. So awful in fact that after they die, satan will be begging God to take them out of hell.
I stopped talking to my mother last year. I couldn’t even come up with anything to tell her because I knew she’d just attack me and would not be receptive. She has absolutely zero self awareness and never takes responsibility for anything. She is also very conniving and manipulates everyone so I was always looking for other motives when communicating with her. She did steal from me on multiple occasions. I feel awful but I don’t want any of my family in my life. It’s a weird feeling to realize you’re completely alone in this world.
Sounds like my mother.
Yeah. It's hard to be completely alone in this world too ...
This is going to sound super cliche, but family are the people who are there for you. You don’t have to share blood with them, and just because you do share blood with a person doesn’t make them your family. If you have anyone in your life like that, keep them close and you won’t be alone. If you don’t, then work on things that enrich you and you’ll find yourself naturally gravitate towards people who may one day become that.
The 2 years i was alone where one of the best years in my life.
@@mojojojo560 it's not the same thing as your actual family who brought you into being.....
Too many people put genetics over actual caring for another human. To not see your now adult child as a human, is such a terriblw thing
Ferengi Rule of Acquisition Number 111: "Treat people in your debt like family… exploit them."
Hugely validating, thank you. Also, I’d like to add that the most dominant feeling I experienced when my mom died was relief, followed by guilt for feeling relieved. The guilt has faded but the relief remains.
I haven't had any contact with my two daughters for 10 years now. During this time, I've done a lot of work to change (therapy, self-reflection, journaling, reading etc). I know why we are estranged. I know all the things I've donefor the same reasons you mention. Finally seeing the light, I was beside myself with grief, remorse, and embarrassment. At first, I couldn't see that I did anything wrong. As I did the work, it all became crystal clear. I should have estranged myself from my parents before I ever had them and earnestly try to break the cycle. I was so broken but I kept hanging around, traumatizing myself and everyone around me with bad behavior. I know I won't see them again but I'll always love them. I google them from time to time and they are doing well. I'm glad they broke the cycle. And if no contact with me made them better people, then more power to them.
First of all I congratulate you for the fact that you worked on yourself and finally understood what made them leave. I left my father 6 years ago and my mother died 20 years ago, so I only had him but I couldn't stay anymore, his behavior was very abusive and everyone around defended him because none of them knew who he was behind closed doors. I wish he would do some work on himself but he wouldn't, he would rather tell me that my mom hated me from beyond the grave than admit he was at fault for anything.
If you think you changed, really changed, I don't see why not talk to your daughters, or at least try to. If my father could understand, I would give him a last chance to be in my life, even after all the hell I lived with him, but I do not have this option.
Let your daughters know they do have a choice to make and respect whatever they decide.
I can only hope that my birth father thinks of me like this
Thank you. I have reached out a few times over the years and was met with silence. I'll leave them be as that silence says it all.
You are stronger than you know. To respect their autonomy and to face yourself. One thing that’s not mentioned much in the comments is our own participation in the cycle of abuse. I went no contact years ago, but it took me time to recognize my own abusive tendencies. At a certain point, I can’t blame my mom for my own behavior; in the same way that I want my mom to stop blaming her parents and me for why she can’t make things work. Others might do things that trigger you, but your reaction is your own: you own it and it belongs to you and no one else. It is also the only thing you can take control of. Anyway, I have put self-CHANGE as my number one priority above other life goals in order to break the cycle, and I’m so proud of you for doing so as well. Our mistakes and misdeeds are behind us, but we are committed to not making them again.
@k.upward Thank you for your kind words. It's cliche, but one really has to be the change you want to see in the world. It's an ongoing journey that will end only when we take our last breath.
"Grieving a parent they never had" strikes a chord - 16 years on it's hard to remember why things were *that* bad in the absence of obvious abuse, but the fact there's just a lack of any positive memories at all is telling.
My parents were obnoxiously attractive and young sociopaths who only existed for self gratification. They made me VERY aware that I was not as cool a kid as my super sociopathic sister, and My dad often said that because I was not "great" with girls during high school that I MUST be gay, and I should just come out because he is a liberal dude and that would make him look like a hip dad....needless to say, I stopped talking to them after I was told I need to move out the day after high school graduation. I only JUST started talking to my mom the last 2 years, and although she is extremely apologetic, I 'm not spending holidays over there or anything, we don't even talk on birthdays. Also, I'm turning 46 in May, so it was a VERY long time I did not talk to any of my immediate family.
🫂
That’s awful, my father’s side of the family is like that. They’ve always been popular with people and because I’m an introvert and became anti-social due to bad experiences, they think I’m lazy or scared of life. I recently talked to them again after 8 years, that was a mistake, seems they’ll never change.
@thegreatgeorgealexander thanks
I hope you don't visit your parents ever
There is going to be a lot of this in the near future... A lot of oh, my kid doesn't like traditional male stuff, they must be trans, type stuff.
i feel like the way parents handle nc really highlights how punitive narcissistic behavior can be. like i’m not ignoring you to punish YOU, I’m ignoring you to save myself.
I had the same thought: "You think that because that's what _you_ would do."
I can only imagine what it would be like to have proper parents.
How different a person could I have been.
Same!
Me as well
I didn't have that deep sense of loss until i visited a friend's house and witnessed the low-key beautiful ways her family interacted with each other. Nobody's hair was on fire. Nobody slammed doors or kicked the dog. Nobody stormed out in a huff. I could tell these people liked each other. They had favorite colors and clothes that fit and had plans for summer. When you live in daily chaos, it's like visiting a different planet. I can't even imagine who I might have been.
Same. Come to africa you will experience a healthy culture
Find out and do your thing now. In the end, adversity is an important component to learning and becoming. Check out Dr Albert Ellis' work. Watch videos of him like How to Deal with Difficult People, etc.
At some point, you just accept the fact that you will never be treated with respect. Your boundaries mean nothing to a self absorbed parent. Last straw for me was when my aging mother wanted me to leave my job, home, and husband to move across the country and be her caretaker. She doesn't care that it would ruin my finances and my marriage. When I said no - she broke off contact... won't answer my calls anymore. For the record - I have been asking her for years to move closer to me so I can take care of her... but she always refused. She thinks it is my duty to "come home".
that is called a hospice care kid
That's what "parents" want from their "children". To be their retirement fund and caretaker. That's why they get wed and have kids.
Yeeouch.
My family called me to.. move across the country to care for my Dad.
@@angelaarco8170 I was even told that outright. "The reason you have kids is to have somebody to take care of you in your old age." And apparently never mind if you're extremely abusive to those children, they are there to be slaves anyway. Their whole lives.
My mom neglected me just so id be around because she is afraid of rhe dark.
Gettinf away with three disabillities is inpossible wirhour smith and wesson.
Its a long story that doesnt matter really
This is so affirming and comforting. I have not talked to my biological father since 2008 and I honestly don’t miss him. He’s the reason why I am always skeptical whenever a parent tells me they’re estranged from their child and they don’t know why their child would stop speaking to them. Thank you for this video!
It's not only that they don't admit the abuse of my childhood, it's also that the abuse continues every single time I see them. I'm done.
Narcisitic parents see their kids as their emotional babysiter or throphy and the parents are also verbaly abusive towards the child and overvalue the other sibiling. The kid absolutely despise the narci rageful mother. One of the things that parents dont realise is that kids eventually becomes adults and we are in the age of psycky consciouness. My mother was the exact same way I felt devastated for years expecting her to care about me but she expected me to mother her it was awful.
Same here.
@@joyful_tanya Then during and after therapy I realised I invested for years in narcisistic friends. How about you?
@@musicbrazilian7065oh My God me too
Yup my mother basically replaced me with my step-siblings then on her birthday got drunk and in front of everyone gave a big speech about her favorite son and favorite daughter and I've barely spoken to her since. Partly because I don't take phone calls from her after 7pm because she's probably drunk and angry about something, or done something to anger everyone and wants someone sympathetic to listen to her justify it. Almost certainly narcissistic personality disorder.
One time, my mother called me, ‘her emotional support animal’. She was very offended when I told her every adult is responsible for their own emotions.
The, "Well you weren't perfect either" argument is such bullsht. Obviously no kid is not going to be perfect. And being children, they lack maturity, knowledge, and wisdom- things adults are supposed to have. If you don't have the maturity or common sense as an adult to not get in a fight with your 6 year old, that's all on you as a parent, not on your child.
My dad always told me, “You aren’t perfect!” and “Stop thinking you’re perfect!” and many other variations. The strange thing is, I never claimed to be perfect. I never even thought I was perfect, and I’ve told him so many times. Nor did I expect him to be perfect. He seems to believe he is the perfect one… lots of projection!
@@PraiseTheFSMonster “Nobody’s perfect” is one of their favorite snarky dismissals.
It's exhausting how the extended familial backlash is coming to this very difficult decision. The collateral damage is compounding grief. Long after, still grieving, and finally arriving to a place where I can let go--with an opportunity to thrive. It's a painful journey, lonely & confusing. I am grateful to myself for doing the work to heal and recover from things that were never in my control. Addiction, abuse, neglect, cruelty, isolation, control, manipulation, silencing, being a child parent... No change, not betterment, no apology or admittance.
I got tired of my parents saying I was a terrible child. My mom said my birth was horrible and it’s my fault. What? My dad enabled all this abuse and hit me and they have the audacity to wonder what happened. Unhealed adults are the real children. Healing thoughts to everyone here.
Six years of no contact and it saved my life... best thing ever! My husband and kids, our lil nuclear family are HAPPY 💖 There's nothing I want them to know. Traumatic childhood, my mom is NPD, they're all alcoholics and addicts. I need to protect myself and my children. Someone had to break the generational trauma.
So true, I went to rehab because of mine and all the bad people I manifested unconsciously due to the normalization of abusive treatment towards me. Now I seem to do better, my health is better. I want to work on choosing healthy friends and a husband.
“There is nothing I want them to know” THAT IS SO PROFOUND. My dad has trauma dumped to my brother and I since we were little kids. I don’t know why you’d want to expose your kid to something like that unless you’re trying to shame them into feeling ungrateful (aka what my dad did). The way you view it is NORMAL and it was almost a little healing to see you say that, because that’s how a true parent should feel.
Maybe why they don't have a relationship with their grandparents? It isn't trauma dumping, it is called being open and honest. Like say for example the parent was abused by a priest, there should be no shame in sharing. There is too much secrecy and shame and that helps, the abusers continue.
I am so happy that you have a wonderful family and bless you and your husband and children! Also relieved that you were strong enough to finally say enough and cut them off. Please don't ever fall for any 'sweet words' your mother may say to you in the future, it's only because she wants something. Wishing you the best and hope you have a long, happy life!
Well done!
I'll repeat what so many others have already said about this video - spot on!
I'm 34 and was the Only Child of a Single Mother. I find this is something that isn't spoken about much. As it seems the majority of people seem to have siblings and usually another parent.
It's extra intense when it's only the 2 of you. I was everything to my Mum. Her Best friend, her partner, her parent. She had no friends or a partner.
I moved out at 22 and I've been completely no contact for 3 years. My life instantly became happier as soon as I cut her out of it.
YES!!! Thank you! This was my exact experience! Being an only child to a toxic mother is a different level of stress, isolation and abuse!
Same here! It's such a unique experience, especially when your parent had undiagnosed mental illness. My mom passed away, and it was such a difficult and complicated transition until I began to heal ❤.
This sounds like the situation my little sister is in (our parents got primary custody of one kid each during the divorce proceedings, and she was just a baby) and I want so badly to help her get out of that situation, but I also have my own life and massive overload of mental fuckery to deal with, which I am already constantly overwhelmed by, so I don't know how to even begin to do that. Mum acts like this to a T-- untreated mental illnesses, treating her daughter like her partner and best friend, not teaching her how to drive, not installing internet access at the house, not letting her go places alone, homeschooling her and then saying she'll help with college admissions processes and then never doing so...
Similar boat ❤ stay strong, "sis."
I’ve experienced this. I get it. I still struggle. Wishing you the best. ❤
What you said about the guilt and heartbreak the adult-child feels when going no contact is so true. For nearly a year I continually second guessed almost everything that ever happened in our relationship, wondering what I could have done differently and if I did the right thing. I tried to make our relationship work really all my life, and it was so heartbreaking to accept I had to go no contact for my own mental health. I realized I had been working relentlessly to please them my whole life, and nothing would ever be enough.
My parents do blame my husband for turning me against them I’m told by my siblings, but they don’t realize he pushed me to try with them for so long and hated to see things come to this as much as I did. The final straw was they insisted I lied to them (I didn’t) and after explaining the situation over and over for weeks, I told them I had explained enough, they had to choose to believe me or not but I couldn’t keep hashing this out every time I saw them. She said she wouldn’t believe me, so I walked away. She couldn’t even give me, her own daughter, the benefit of the doubt and chose to believe I was a malicious liar. She could never see me for who I really am.
The last straw for me was their utter refusal to apologize for the abuse and neglect, and their insistence that **I** was the one who needed to apologize to them.
@Larissa-eo3pt same. I gave mine a chance, and told them what they did wrong, and explained that I needed space. They are still demanding apologies from me a year and a half later (and just hitting my spam filters). They can never ever accept that they fucked up, it always has to be our fault.
Control is a big one. No adult child wants to be controlled by their parents for the rest of their lives.
That's ultimately the main reason I'm low contact with my dad. He's proven time and again that he will never respect my life choices unless they're the ones he wants me to make, and the only way to live freely as myself is to have minimal contact with him.
Parents who have been intentionally estranged by their children absolutely know what they've done. I've repeated myself over and over to my parents about my grievances with their abu$e since I was a young teenager and they'll go to the grave acting as if I up and dissappeared into thin air like it was a 60 Minutes episode. It's just more gaslighting on their end, and I hope anyone who's reading this and stays up at night asking themselves if there's a chance their parents really didn't understand what they did wrong, they'll read this and know that them pretending they don't get your tireless explanations is just another act of abu$e. They don't want to get better and nothing you do could make them anyway --they have to want to change on their own. I hope one day you stop letting yourself be tortured and you find peace.
denial isn't a river in egypt
The sociopathic ones have no capacity to know what they have done. they really don’t understand and they never will
Maybe in your case…..
@@atheistbewildered2987 oh, yes, they DO understand what they’re doing and why they’re doing it. That’s why they’re psychopaths and sociopaths. They take actual pleasure in what they’re doing. It’s all a game to them.
Exactly
In another video, Dr. Ana rightfully pointed out the problems with some of the current rhetoric around narcissism these days. At the same time, however, a lot of the online resources on narcissistic parents literally saved my life. I had been in therapy my whole life, but that therapy was controlled and leveraged by my parents. Without the information and resources I found in online spaces, I would have never in a million years realized that my family system truly was toxic and was never going to listen or change. I miss having my parents and have compassion for the experiences that led them to be the people they are, but I also need to be OK.
I’m a mother who has been shut out. I’ve kept communication with him open. I have wholeheartedly apologised for my words and actions which have negatively impacted my son. One time we both sat and cried after which I thought we’d turned a corner and were working towards a better relationship. He’s 32 now and I have zero response to my emails . He knows I have been diagnosed with bi polar disorder and much calmer due to prescribed medication. Also just to note, I solo parented my son using some of the techniques you described in trusty husky, they worked up until puberty. At about 12 he seemed to change into a different person. My regret is that I didn’t get more help to understand the changes he was experiencing. I know I could have done better as a parent, I wish some words had remained unspoken and some actions were reversible. I have taken responsibility for my own part in our relationship and I do hope that one day we will be able to laugh and cry together. I’m open. I’m on his timetable.
Sometimes all you can do is reach out with your mind and flow love to your son. Your son picked you as a mom, may God grant you peace and acceptance.
Forgiveness isn't mandatory though. Sometimes the wound is so deep that it can never be healed. I wish you the best..
It’s crazy how their psyche are not strong enough “to take responsibility” , minimal acknowledgment…
, but they will not hesitate to do the damage AGAIN while playing dumb and hoping they can get everybody to conveniently hate who they hate
Sounds like the former POTUS
@@doricetimko5403 Yeah, Obama sucked. I agree.
Because for them their needs come first. Even at the sacrifice of their children.
poisoning the well?
@@doricetimko5403 Literally all of them.
As far as my personal experience, I tried for decades to communicate with my mother about things she did/continuing to do that were hurtful and not ok. We're not totally estranged, but I'm definitely low contact with her, and she to this day doesn't understand why we're not close like her friends are with their adult children. It's not because there was a lack of a communication, but because there was an unwillingness to listen on her part. I think a lot of parents whose kids don't talk to them feel like they don't HAVE to listen, then act surprised when the relationship implodes.
It wasn’t that my mom didn’t understand, it was that she didn’t care (sigh).
My grandmother not only doesn't listen, but when I've confronted her on the fact that she doesn't listen she denies it and continues not listening. She will never listen because then she would have to face her wrongs, which I could forgive if she admitted them, acknowledged them and apologized for them. Her unwieldiness to listen ironically is just a continuation of the same issues.
The line about becoming mute or crying to collapse after an interaction really hit home. I couldn't stand to let anyone tip me into that kind of spiral, and since estrangement, it rarely happens. It's truly the best thing I did for myself, not giving them that power over me.
No one cuts off family lightly. The emotional toll is high. You usually get ostracized by the rest of the family especially if you are claiming abuse. To cut someone off risks disinheritance and the loss of support from your entire extended family.
All new parents should watch this. I appreciate you covering this topic. Meaningful point about adult children not missing the parent they had but rather the parent they DIDN’T have / wished they could have had 😢 Tough topic
I honestly didn't really think about how I've gone low contact/gray rocking until this video. I've heard the terms before, and I think it's just kinda happened naturally. Not so much of a conscious effort to reduce contact/reduce information they receive about me from me, just has happened over the years. I talk to them less and less.
Me too! I remember my mom lecturing and yelling at me and I would scream my replies to her in my mind with the most blank look on my face I could manage because talking back would have got me smacked or made the yelling go on longer. She would never really hear me anyways. I never thought about that as greyrocking but I guess it kind of was.
Good for you. It’s the only way. I realized recently I learned how to grey rock when I was 7 years old bc I couldn’t tell my mom anything. So painful. Cheers
I rarely tell people I fully cut contact with my parents because they often believe I made this decision rashly and immaturely.
Its a last resort.
My safety, my sanity, and even my life were in jeopardy. Even when I was suffering hospitalizations and failing health from neglect and abuse, I was making an active effort to repair the relationship, communicate how their words and actions made me feel, set healthy boundaries, show them how much I cared about them, etc. But telling your parents "i dont like when you do that because it makes me feel like you dont care about my wellbeing" doesnt matter when those feelings are accurate conclusions. When those behaviors are intentional.
I have NO family. No parents, no siblings, no aunts, uncles, or grandparents. They ALL sided with my abusers. This is not a life I wish on anyone. But I'm happier and safer alone and traumatized without support than I was in that environment.
Same here. They have all sided with them, despite the files with social services and the police.
Mine deliberately made me ill. Social workers would ask why. And get a blank face.
My health is now pretty good, no issues recurring, life is good.
Teaching oneself phrases such as “i don’t give a fig” etc is also good. I wish I had decided to not care many years ago.
Onwards and upwards. Friendships and more are out there for you.
A quote I have on my desktop I read often. "The peace I feel without your presence in my life is worth being the villain in your story".
Its sad when your mother sees you as competition instead of a daughter!
Ahh this one xx
I know someone that cut their parents off completely. Best decision of their lives, even if it was difficult and painful, remains painful. But it's less painful than continuing that relationship. They would cry and be depressed for a few days every time they had contact with them. The gaslighting and passive attacks from the parents was really bad for their child's mental health.
They’re not confused, they’re just in denial.
Let them stew in their own ‘confusion’. You know what happened to you, and it’s not your fault. 💙
Parents need to realize they don’t own their kids just because they are responsible for taking care of them. The kid is a human being, not a possession-with impossible expectations to make the parent happy, as if the child owes the parents for having sx and creating a child. They’re not a punching bag or there to fill their parents trauma void they don’t want or believe they have. Children deserve rights and respect too, not just adults. “Estranged” suggests there was closeness at one point but the reality is many times adult children who go no contact with their parent always felt like a stranger in their childhood house (not a “home”). An internal feeling of orphanage and “homelessness” despite outside public appearances.
🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
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I had to go no contact with my narcissist abusive Mother when I was 19 for my sanity and self preservation.
We haven't spoken in 35 years. I don't feel regret as I felt it was my only choice, I only feel sad that I didn't have a Mom/Daughter relationship all my life.
Wow I wish I had your strength and wisdom so young. I stayed another 25 years and it never got better.
@@amberinthemist7912 We do things in our own time. I don't think they want it to get better, it's all about control. I hope you are in a better place now ❤ I am really now just letting go, of all of the negative feelings, and bad memories. It does us no good to carry that around with us. I like to say "The best revenge is living well" Sending hugs and love to you.
The more distance i put between my parents and I, the more my life just continued on an upward trajectory. Those results are hard to dispute.
I'm really happy to hear that. Take some time to heal and live your life the way that YOU want to. I wish I had cut mine off sooner and we'll always have those kind of regrets, but the future is ours, so we should live the hell out of it! Best wishes to you.
Sameeeee
Same for me. I sometimes feel guilty for it, but it has been that way for me too.
Distance myself from my narcissistic father who thinks he can't do any wrong . Plus he's been a deadbeat most of my childhood and was friends with my enemies . Plus he loves gaslighting and playing mind games , plus he's very hypocritical , uses favoritism , turns people against me etc .