Fantastic pannel great work from everyone who took the 30 minutes to explain how everything works. That being said, if you are only interested in the progress update 26:18. Sounds like 3.15 has some gen12 so I'm hyped. Great work to the whole team!
CIG please bring Christopher Bolte out more often for content, if he's up for it. His talks remain some of the best things in your entire stack of content.
This is an incredible amount of technical detail and depth. Explaining something this technically complex is a lot of work and really difficult to do. Despite how transparent this is, people on Spectrum still complain that CIG “doesn’t communicate enough”.
I loved the lecture on rendering architecture. It's a topic that sounds interesting to me and I haven't found a course that seems to cover it at my university. Star Citizen is a really ambitious game. Especially in scale and fidelity. I would really enjoy to play it fluently on my next computer with upcoming versions.
Makes sense, its so important and no one even sees it happen! I'd really like to know more, but I can't find much about it. Could you explain how the MainThread works and how it can be optimised, because as of 2022 it seems to be the largest bottleneck in the game (correct me if I am wrong).
I know it's difficult for most people to follow this more technical style of talking but this work is nonetheless extremely important so thank you guys and keep up good work. 🤙 Edit: Also, gibeth the ray tracings, mesh shaders and DirectStorage-like tech etc etc all-the-good-stuffs!
@@Star-bp5jj 26:33 - from what I understood, they exchange the renderer, which schedules what is being calculated when on the graphics card. Being able to do more in parallel is the main outcome. This is achieved by using Vulkan instead of DirectX11, which is a lower abstraction layer from the graphics card than DX11 or OpenGL.
Yah even if they look a little uncomfortable at times on screen. I like it better that they explain than just some random pretty face that has no clue what they are talking about.
i'm truly astounded that they were able to get the game to look this good without raytracing, and now they actually mentioned that they may implement raytracing in the future! Wow!
@@yasaipicles6295 knowing these developers, they will probably create their own version of such technology now that they see what's possible. Star Citizen Project is one of the most ever evolving game developments in the world, always expanding their scope!
@@borutb11 well in reality its because all non realtime renders used Ray tracing to get photorealistic images but no one ever dreamed of having that run realtime due to the computational requirements. Not until Cuda and rtx cores came to be. But nanite was/is a fork in the road so it will be interesting to see what tech becomes more prevalent. My guess is that both will evolve and play off each other
This was absolute one of the most interesting panels. I had no idea there was so much involved with the renderer. People really have no idea how much work this represents when they yell 'Gen12 NAO!' on UA-cam, Twitter or Reddit.
I'm glad to hear optimization is the #1 priority, fingers crossed getting the full game on Vulkan will enable a Linux client. In terms of Ray Tracing support I think Global Illumination is the most important feature. The model of lighting in Metro Exodus has the greatest implications for gameplay and environmental flexibility. I'm probably never going to run a game with ray traced reflections just because the visual impact is usually not noticeable in gameplay.
Nice. 👍 This is where CryEngine stops and Star Engine begins. It's well worth the rewrite as well. This is because a lot of the older methods, plagiarized over time, are inefficient and long overdue for replacement. I look forward to seeing the impact of these changes (and ferreting out the related bugs).
I'm really excited about these changes and can't wait until they come out. I hope we'll see a major jump in performance after full Gen 12, Vulkan and Multi-Threaded optimizations will be in place, not talking about the improvements the DLSS and other optimizers will bring.
Subtitles would be a blessing especially in prerecorded videos. Partially hard to understand if neither the talking person nor the listener is a native speaker.
@@La-Cabra The subtitles created from youtube were not available when I watched. When I watched another video later, they were available but completely out of sync. They could/should have included them in prerecorded videos from the start. Would have been better for those watching live as well. CIG has great videos and they should make the videos downloadable without subtitles, but if they want to confer information to a worldwide audience subtitels are a must imho.
Thank you Ali, Christopher and Darrell! SC is such a beautiful game - I enjoyed learning about the tech used and being developed to make it look so fantastic on our PCs.
Is there a time-line for any of this, or even an idea of how much labour time is involved in each task...? If anything, just so we can understand where all the time is going? It could just be letting us know how long it took to get to this point, so we'd have an idea how long that portion of the whole took.
The progress tracker says eta of December for Gen12 Tier 1. I don’t know which milestone that includes. I’m guessing it might just be the initial milestone, gen12 + DX11, but the progress tracker doesn’t have any tasks for Vulkan or multi threading yet, so it’s possible it’s included. Would love to see more about when to expect it but I guess they don’t want to get our hopes up
After years of waiting for this game to really become a ... well a game i have had some worries and doubts like many people. But 1 thing i have noticed over the last few years at least when watching these videos from different Cloud Impirum Devs working on the game is that they seem to have some really great people that are really talented and skilled working on Star Citizen and that gives me hope in what the game will be eventually.
Great roadmap... only one thing missing... VR support. There's a percentage who won't touch star citizen until they can be fully immersed in the SC universe with life-size 3d visuals.
Very in-depth and technical. Even though very few of us understand 100% all that is said, it is good to know that the people behind the project are experts are what they do, and have passion for it. Looking towards the future, I wonder if there'll be a big difference between Radeon and Geforce when using the Vulkan API. Might slightly affect upgrade choices when it comes to GPU.
Sooo greats explanations! That's a bit sad subtitles are getting late (at the end of the vidéo, subtitles have maybe 1 minute of late, so a little part is missing)
Performance first, visual chaff second. I'm very happy to see Vulkan being supported - but a little sad that it'll be quite a time off yet before we see it being implemented. A great panel as always. Keep up the good work lads!
Just think of it you get your dream job of doing programming and development on a major game project....to also get told, "It's your turn to do a video of what ever it is we are doing now." Uh but I was signed up for that....you are now...lol I'm glad they actually have folks that work on it explain than some random model pretty face type that has no clue.
I think Vulkan CAN be used on Android and PS4/5 if developers so wish (Sony has their own in house one that is normally used however). The only company that has blocked vulkan is MS XBOX as far as I know, yes even the Switch supports vulkan!
I really hope you redo the keybinding menu to something like DCS a lot of us have more then 4 usb devices would be great to be able to invert them in game
Sounds nice an all but i back this game to play the campaign in 2013 so i could play it 2 or 3 years later. still interesting stuff, even though it's still taking a while to get here :-/
@@nicovega1831 Adding DLSS doesn't negatively effect people that can't use DLSS, so I don't see a problem. I fully understand that features that can benefit the ENTIRE player base are priority, but just because some players can't use it doesn't mean the players that can use it won't appreciate being able to do so.
What they're talking about here is, in fact, the largest thing bottlenecking the game's performance. It's essentially why the game has such low frames (the game usually isn't GPU bound.) The most important thing here is what Christopher Bolte (6:19) was discussing, which the most challenging part of the game code's optimisation. *In Layman's terms, Star citizen isn't really great at utilising all of our CPU cores.* It requires complex pipelineing (which is the technique of processing many tasks simulataneously as one task is being executed). As of right now, Gen12 has significantly helped the RenderThread performance, which has indeed helped our FPS. Unfortunately, its still hugely bottlenecked by... the mainthread... What I find interesting is that Chris speaks like the MainThread is pretty optmised as it is, with it being well piplined and utilising all the threads in a core, leading to very efficient multiprogramming and therefore fully utilising all the cores, boosting FPS. But, clearly, there's more work to be done. I wish we had another insight into the progress of Mainthread optimization, especially how that's such an important factor... Hope this helps.
Pretty sure they branched their engine off of the original cryengine years ago to turn it into their own thing. I don't think they'd be able to take stuff from Cryengine updates even if Crytek would let them.
Yeah, here's another vote for "why?" If they can come up with a way to take advantage of a large percentage of any given amount of available RAM to improve things, I'm good with that. That's why I went to 32 gigs on the last upgrade.
Fantastic pannel great work from everyone who took the 30 minutes to explain how everything works. That being said, if you are only interested in the progress update 26:18. Sounds like 3.15 has some gen12 so I'm hyped. Great work to the whole team!
Comments like this are greatly appreciated.
CIG please bring Christopher Bolte out more often for content, if he's up for it.
His talks remain some of the best things in your entire stack of content.
Finally a road to optimisation! Thank god you guys didn't even contemplate Direct X12 and you chose VULKAN as the logical choice all along finally.
good for us Linux plebs also... :)
@@PRiMETECHAU agreed!
Lets see SC on a steam deck in 5 years.
Finally I can play starcitizen on Linux!!!
@@louis18071957 you could before; worked ok with proton with some issues which sort of exist in windows such as low fps and texture popin.
as long as I can turn off motion blur I'm happy
Turning off your monitor removes it 100% of the time. Should satisfy you.
@@Shive1337 rather that then have the blur
Right!
Agreed, I turn it off in all games I play
This is an incredible amount of technical detail and depth. Explaining something this technically complex is a lot of work and really difficult to do. Despite how transparent this is, people on Spectrum still complain that CIG “doesn’t communicate enough”.
I loved the lecture on rendering architecture. It's a topic that sounds interesting to me and I haven't found a course that seems to cover it at my university.
Star Citizen is a really ambitious game. Especially in scale and fidelity. I would really enjoy to play it fluently on my next computer with upcoming versions.
Makes sense, its so important and no one even sees it happen!
I'd really like to know more, but I can't find much about it.
Could you explain how the MainThread works and how it can be optimised, because as of 2022 it seems to be the largest bottleneck in the game (correct me if I am wrong).
I know it's difficult for most people to follow this more technical style of talking but this work is nonetheless extremely important so thank you guys and keep up good work. 🤙
Edit: Also, gibeth the ray tracings, mesh shaders and DirectStorage-like tech etc etc all-the-good-stuffs!
@@Star-bp5jj 26:33 - from what I understood, they exchange the renderer, which schedules what is being calculated when on the graphics card. Being able to do more in parallel is the main outcome. This is achieved by using Vulkan instead of DirectX11, which is a lower abstraction layer from the graphics card than DX11 or OpenGL.
Yah even if they look a little uncomfortable at times on screen. I like it better that they explain than just some random pretty face that has no clue what they are talking about.
i'm truly astounded that they were able to get the game to look this good without raytracing, and now they actually mentioned that they may implement raytracing in the future! Wow!
Hope they get a nanite like eventually so not to be limited by poly count
@@yasaipicles6295 knowing these developers, they will probably create their own version of such technology now that they see what's possible. Star Citizen Project is one of the most ever evolving game developments in the world, always expanding their scope!
Goes to show how important raytracing actually isn't
@@borutb11 well in reality its because all non realtime renders used Ray tracing to get photorealistic images but no one ever dreamed of having that run realtime due to the computational requirements. Not until Cuda and rtx cores came to be. But nanite was/is a fork in the road so it will be interesting to see what tech becomes more prevalent. My guess is that both will evolve and play off each other
@@fobypawz418 Always expanding scope and never get past Alpha
Great stuff! Thanks to everyone involved in the panel and those making this stuff happen behind the scenes!
Great stuff! Thanks to everyone who participated in making the videos.
This was absolute one of the most interesting panels. I had no idea there was so much involved with the renderer. People really have no idea how much work this represents when they yell 'Gen12 NAO!' on UA-cam, Twitter or Reddit.
Loved it even tho i understood 10% of it.
Really great to see their hardwork and what's coming !
Thank you guys ! You are awesome !
Exciting to learn that you guys push forward eith vulkan and also multitthreading :)
i didn't understand much, but those guys seem to be really likeable! ty for doing all the complex and hard work!
Thank you Christopher! Well Explained!
Thanks so much for that progress list!
I'm glad to hear optimization is the #1 priority, fingers crossed getting the full game on Vulkan will enable a Linux client.
In terms of Ray Tracing support I think Global Illumination is the most important feature. The model of lighting in Metro Exodus has the greatest implications for gameplay and environmental flexibility.
I'm probably never going to run a game with ray traced reflections just because the visual impact is usually not noticeable in gameplay.
Great to hear that DLSS/FSR and Raytracing are not off the table :-)
Nice to see you guys working on performance ;-)
Namaste
Nice. 👍
This is where CryEngine stops and Star Engine begins. It's well worth the rewrite as well. This is because a lot of the older methods, plagiarized over time, are inefficient and long overdue for replacement. I look forward to seeing the impact of these changes (and ferreting out the related bugs).
I love these tech-heavy videos.
Really liked update on progress + future work. Gives a pretty clear idea of the current state and what's next after it.
I'm really excited about these changes and can't wait until they come out. I hope we'll see a major jump in performance after full Gen 12, Vulkan and Multi-Threaded optimizations will be in place, not talking about the improvements the DLSS and other optimizers will bring.
Subtitles would be a blessing especially in prerecorded videos. Partially hard to understand if neither the talking person nor the listener is a native speaker.
Auto generated ones make an impressive job. Try them.
@@La-Cabra The subtitles created from youtube were not available when I watched. When I watched another video later, they were available but completely out of sync. They could/should have included them in prerecorded videos from the start. Would have been better for those watching live as well.
CIG has great videos and they should make the videos downloadable without subtitles, but if they want to confer information to a worldwide audience subtitels are a must imho.
Thank you Ali, Christopher and Darrell! SC is such a beautiful game - I enjoyed learning about the tech used and being developed to make it look so fantastic on our PCs.
A lot of this is waaay over my head but I'm glad they make these info videos. Keep up the amazing work CIG!
Is there a time-line for any of this, or even an idea of how much labour time is involved in each task...? If anything, just so we can understand where all the time is going?
It could just be letting us know how long it took to get to this point, so we'd have an idea how long that portion of the whole took.
The progress tracker says eta of December for Gen12 Tier 1. I don’t know which milestone that includes. I’m guessing it might just be the initial milestone, gen12 + DX11, but the progress tracker doesn’t have any tasks for Vulkan or multi threading yet, so it’s possible it’s included. Would love to see more about when to expect it but I guess they don’t want to get our hopes up
After years of waiting for this game to really become a ... well a game i have had some worries and doubts like many people. But 1 thing i have noticed over the last few years at least when watching these videos from different Cloud Impirum Devs working on the game is that they seem to have some really great people that are really talented and skilled working on Star Citizen and that gives me hope in what the game will be eventually.
I really appreciate them going into such great detail, very rare for game companies.
Thx for letting us try to follow what it is you do.
Great roadmap... only one thing missing... VR support. There's a percentage who won't touch star citizen until they can be fully immersed in the SC universe with life-size 3d visuals.
Vorpex but its umm painful.
@@wolfgangjr74 Vorpx is good but it has to be native VR.
@Alyx That makes sense. Gen12 + Vulkan will raise the performance enough to drive VR.
Well done Chris!
Very in-depth and technical. Even though very few of us understand 100% all that is said, it is good to know that the people behind the project are experts are what they do, and have passion for it.
Looking towards the future, I wonder if there'll be a big difference between Radeon and Geforce when using the Vulkan API. Might slightly affect upgrade choices when it comes to GPU.
I'm glad I paid attention to my Computer Architecture lectures. I love you, guys. Keep up the good work!
I hope they'll also tell us a bit about the possibilities with Direct Storage soon. Thank you for that panel guys!
Direct Storage is a DX12U feature, they're not using DX12
Certainly hope Star Citizen will use something like it. Unclear if we need to wait for Vulkan devs to develop the same functionality yet.
@@SUR3ND3RNL does that mean vulkan will never ever be able to load textures from SSD into the Vram directly?
@@elec1 No it does not mean that, but it does mean that there currently isn't an easy "plug n play" way to do it.
Star Citizen really sets new standards for games in every way. :D
Amazing work! : D
Can't wait for raytracing!
Love Mr. Bolte.
Also with Vulkan, you can get this going on Linux with minimal effort too.
THE reason it is needed. Ultimate goodness for running the SC code.
@@chewyfoks1840 well yeah. It's be a absolute Trainwreck in DX11/12
@@chewyfoks1840 Well that and Vulkan is open source unlike DirectX. CIG doesn't have to pay royalties to use Vulkan. They would if they used DX.
Lol @Linux
Linux + minimal effort = ERROR ERROR ERROR
Thank you guys! Keep up the great work
Star Citizen on Linux / Steam Deck! Can not WAIT!
Sooo greats explanations!
That's a bit sad subtitles are getting late (at the end of the vidéo, subtitles have maybe 1 minute of late, so a little part is missing)
Awesome!
Love this. So excited.
It’s beyond me, but interesting to hear. Ty
great work.
Crazy impressive
< Insert GIF of guy doing the 'mind blown' thing here >
My 2700x approves
Interesting.
Great stuff!
Performance first, visual chaff second. I'm very happy to see Vulkan being supported - but a little sad that it'll be quite a time off yet before we see it being implemented. A great panel as always. Keep up the good work lads!
RAY TRACING CONFIRMED!!!
When will it be added to the game?
My 3700x is going to thrive on this update and I will certainly appreciate the frame rate increase!
No one will be able create an equivalent game to star citizen. Their tech stack is too built up to be challenged in the near future.
Just think of it you get your dream job of doing programming and development on a major game project....to also get told, "It's your turn to do a video of what ever it is we are doing now." Uh but I was signed up for that....you are now...lol I'm glad they actually have folks that work on it explain than some random model pretty face type that has no clue.
Nice
Great !
I think Vulkan CAN be used on Android and PS4/5 if developers so wish (Sony has their own in house one that is normally used however). The only company that has blocked vulkan is MS XBOX as far as I know, yes even the Switch supports vulkan!
I just want VR support. =(
+1
in future will be supported officialy
Game needs Nvidia DLSS support, Which now supports Vulkan API.
and FSR. Can't wait.
No word on stereo rendering
all praise vulkan
Very exciting stuff cannot wait for these to materialise in the players hands....question now is when...late 2022, 2023 or 2024?
20WhenItsReady
Yes to Vulkan. 😎
But for me Raytracing is overrated. Bring VR support instead.😊
2023 and still waiting
So what is the rough ETA?
citcon this year felt like the biggest talking devs ever xD.
2 years later it’s finally in PTU‼️😂
Missed the big one....VR
I really hope you redo the keybinding menu to something like DCS a lot of us have more then 4 usb devices would be great to be able to invert them in game
Sounds nice an all but i back this game to play the campaign in 2013 so i could play it 2 or 3 years later. still interesting stuff, even though it's still taking a while to get here :-/
Star Citizen and SQ42 are perfect candidates for Nvidia DLSS after Gen 12 is fully implemented.
I would not agree to 100% as DLSS is a proprietary feature
@@nicovega1831 Adding DLSS doesn't negatively effect people that can't use DLSS, so I don't see a problem. I fully understand that features that can benefit the ENTIRE player base are priority, but just because some players can't use it doesn't mean the players that can use it won't appreciate being able to do so.
looking forward to linux builds
If we can get a stable 60 at 4k I'm good.
I thought myself very technically proficient in computing until I watched this.
I wonder if raytracing will be a thing in the future on this game since we have vulkan too.
they literally address that in this very video
ua-cam.com/video/SV9_chUpDgc/v-deo.html
@@djsnoopmike yeah I know just like to see how long it will take or it will even be a thing.
are you guy changing Cryengine to use Vulkan?
vulkan is api render not engine also they already changed engine from cryengine to amazon lumberyard for many years now
I sure hope they fix the LOD snapping. Too bad they don't have something like UE5's nanite technology.
Modularity FTW
my 3950x is ready
This is some real nerd ish!
finally
So, when this tech is done in 3 years, can we expect yet another roughly 7% increase in performance?
Memes memes memes!!!
As someone who isn't a tech savy, can someone explain to me how this work out in practice? Does the performance of the game increase?
Yes. A lot.
@@usagiakane That explain absolutely nothing exept what I already know from the video.
@@brosquito7483 then what you dont understand
@@usagiakane Technically what it does to make the game perform better.
What they're talking about here is, in fact, the largest thing bottlenecking the game's performance. It's essentially why the game has such low frames (the game usually isn't GPU bound.)
The most important thing here is what Christopher Bolte (6:19) was discussing, which the most challenging part of the game code's optimisation.
*In Layman's terms, Star citizen isn't really great at utilising all of our CPU cores.*
It requires complex pipelineing (which is the technique of processing many tasks simulataneously as one task is being executed). As of right now, Gen12 has significantly helped the RenderThread performance, which has indeed helped our FPS. Unfortunately, its still hugely bottlenecked by... the mainthread...
What I find interesting is that Chris speaks like the MainThread is pretty optmised as it is, with it being well piplined and utilising all the threads in a core, leading to very efficient multiprogramming and therefore fully utilising all the cores, boosting FPS.
But, clearly, there's more work to be done. I wish we had another insight into the progress of Mainthread optimization, especially how that's such an important factor...
Hope this helps.
Optimization should be the highest priority since manufacturing of hardware is only going to get worse in 2022.
Is Vulcan for AMD cards?
All cards
'core engine architect' , - im sorry i just think that sounds badass
engineering > architecture
WHEN ?
If only they could get the latest cryengine raytracing tech. With hardware and software rt support.
Pretty sure they branched their engine off of the original cryengine years ago to turn it into their own thing. I don't think they'd be able to take stuff from Cryengine updates even if Crytek would let them.
@@joeyn177 Hence the "If Only", fortunately Vulkan itself has RT.
are we getting AMD / NVIDA and soon to be INTEL options for scale? dlss etc?
That group in your class that got max grades for their presentation, but no one understood any of the complicated stuff they were talking about
Linux support incoming I guess?!
Can we then find Mr. Spock on Vulkan?
Someone called?
LINUX
So glad these smart people have a place in the world. In the middle ages, these guys would be homeless and helpless.
almost 2 years and perfomance on a 11700k and a 3060 is still unplayable.
What really needs to be looked at is memory use.
This is good, but when I'm pushing 18GB RAM used it's an issue.
Why?
Yeah, here's another vote for "why?"
If they can come up with a way to take advantage of a large percentage of any given amount of available RAM to improve things, I'm good with that.
That's why I went to 32 gigs on the last upgrade.
*upcoming DDR5 with 6400 mhz 32 Gig sticks being the default says hi*
The RAM is going to be cheaper in the near future.
So why not?
Errr... just buy more?