It's always nice to see that what I've been teaching for 40 years is supported by the 3D data. You guys are great at making what can be an overwhelming amount of information useful and effective. Keep it up!
Thank you, thank you, thank you! It works. I have been focusing obsessively on bowing the left wrist, mainly with the driver, fairway woods and irons, but I also thought that to maintain consistency I should apply it on wedge shots. Keep elbows close together, get right (trail) forearm more vertical at the top of the backswing with the elbow under the wrist or even slightly in front of it, and get left wrist in flexion (bowed). At the indoor range with practice bays and launch monitors, I have a tendency to curve to the left, with often heavy left sidespin. So today after watching this I went to the indoor range to try out a 180 degree turn and apply your "handshake" and cupped left wrist with toe up. I do know my distances pretty well with shaft horizontal, left arm horizontal, and full. So I started with 50 yards for the 52 degree gap wedge. Then 75. Then 95 (to a 100 yard pin). Mentally focused on letting the weight of the head just drop, but actively not completely passively. No tension. Relaxed, casual loosey-goosey swing like I didn't have anything to worry about. Amazing. IT WORKS! I think it actually produced more swing speed. Got really nice pitches and full wedge shots. Then applied it to my 34 degree 7 iron. Again, it worked. More shots centered, some a bit right. No loss of length. I have believed a cupped left wrist was a huge no-no and ensured a push right or slice. I suppose it might depending on other aspects of your swing. But not at all with a happy, active and relaxed swing. So thanks again for this. Will see this week how it works on the course.
@@AthleticMotionGolf Thanks for the willingness to help! Hopefully I have my terms correct, but it's my understanding that at the top of the backswing we have pretty close to maximum radial deviation and I'm curious how much ulnar travel there should be during the downswing and at impact. Should the wrist be maxed out at ulnar at impact or relatively neutral? Thanks!
@@glossolalian If you look at the angle formed by the lead forearm and shaft at address, a popular number we see in 3D is ~130 degrees. That number moves to ~90 degrees at the top. Then at impact, it's often in the 145-150 range. No way to know if that's maxed out, but it's no where near neutral and def more ulnar than at address.
A few years ago I was probably only about 60% from 3ft and I had fears that I would miss even a 1 footer. I discovered that I was doing exactly as this videos says and was pitching the putter during the backswing. After I worked on keeping the pitch the same throughout the swing my putting has improved so much that I feel like I can make anything from inside 5ft. I'm somewhere around 93% from 3ft now.
Perfect timing! Just received my unit 2weeks ago. Please keep this content coming, as most of us have no other way of capturing our technique precisely (like Gears)
I want to start by saying I love your videos and your approach to teaching the golf swing. That said, I am having a problem in watching this video deciphering between the wrist rotation and the wrist unhinging or the change from radial to ulnar deviation. I am trying sequence this correctly but I believe I am screwing it up. And it seems to get more difficult as I add in the the lowering and extending of the right arm. Probably over thinking this movement but would certainly appreciate any light you two could shine on this. Thanks
Have more ulnar at impact than you had at address. While that’s happening, don’t try to keep the forearm from rotating. Try to keep it as simple as possible if you don’t have a way to measure it 🙂
Fantastic video as always gentlemen! Quick question - you spoke about how it’s the forearm rotating during the backswing not the whole arm at the shoulder joint. Is that the same for the downswing, or is there more rotation from the upper arm as well? Thanks in advance for your time.
Just watched your three free drills video from your we site...great stuff as always but I had no idea Shaun was struggling so much with his game, LOL! All kidding aside, the putting part....I had no idea about hinging the wrists up and down in the putting stroke and how it can effect rolling off line. Learn something new every time with your chanel! Thanks!
Great stuff lads. I have hack motion but haven't learned how to actually use it to its full potential. Going forward I hope to use it when I teach and to keep my flip hooks at bay. 😁
Hi guys, at address, is the left wrist setup for RH golfer with some ulnar deviation or radial deviation? I saw a video recommending some ulnar and during takeaway hinging to neutral. This has reduced some of my wrist pain in left hand as I started at address with more radial. Thanks
If you’re learning to chip/pitch and you haven’t read Dan Greive’s book, you’re doing yourself a disservice. Talks a lot about wrist usages in chips and pitches.
I don't think about my wrists , I just let the club head momentum create the hinge and I focus more on my right humerus accelerating thru the ball, kind of like I'm tossing the ball. I find this the easiest since I don't have a zillion hours to practice.
One of your best videos guys. Love it. I have a question related to ulnar deviation at address. Do Tour players have more ulnar deviation at address vs amateurs?
thanks for this great video. if I try to bring club back waist high toe up, I quite often have trouble getting club face back to square, and instead face stays open,i blade shot or it pushes way off target line. any ideas how I can practice to overcome this? thanks John
Yes! A very common issue for many golfers because most ams we see have FAR LESS forearm (lead arm) rotation in the downswing than the pros we see. It’s an epidemic myth that forearm rotation causes flipping.
Well now I'm curious if my takeaway is destroying my ball flight. I've been hitting fades all dang year and cannot fix it. I'm wondering if I'm just keeping the face too closed and doing that reverse roll which leads to the flop at the top. That's exactly what I've tried to do in an attempt to keep the face more closed (since the ball fades of course).
FINALLY!! You guys are amazing…when the hack motion commercials hit the street, I was very negative about ams using it. Since the swing involves every part of the body, and your body is doing dozens if not hundreds of compensations to get you to hit the ball where you want to, when you use something like that hack motion, it invariably will require adjustments somewhere else in the swing…and if you have no idea what that other adjustment is, you just wind up doing more compensating somewhere else…thanks for putting this together…going to check out your hack motion video now!
I checked out the free lesson video you linked in the pinned comment. Noticed that for the last wrist motion for the full swing, the "turn over" or whatever you want to call it. It looked like from the graph that it happens that rapidly or sharply for the pros? So is it a matter of not doing any supination of the lead wrist until delivery, but then really letting it go and turn the toe over, rather than the popular idea of holding off the face? I've seen your colleague manzella advocate a feeling of doing a similar release straight from the top of the swing, but that doesn't quite match up with the graph does it?
@@Haze1552 that’s one of the worst suggestions to ever come down the pipe, for many reasons. But the main one, no player in history has ever done it. The face is always rotating in the downswing - for everyone.
@@AthleticMotionGolf to each their own. The main differences are that yes, a tour level player can rotate and time it correctly, a 10-20 handicap can’t. I sit at a 6.3 and am constantly under 80. I’ll take it.
@@AthleticMotionGolfwould be happy to email you a video that shows my swing from the ML2 to show you where my hands are. Maybe we are talking about two different things?
@@Haze1552 you rotate too. Everyone does who can hit the ball. This has all been measured fact for years now. Feel can be anything, but we have to share the facts or we’ll just keep adding to all the bad ideas that are out there. Tour players don’t do the complicated option of things, that wouldn’t make much sense for the guys/gals with the most at stake to do the least reliable movements at impact, would it?
This Have to Be the Hardest Drill and Swing Change!! Every time at impact try Rotate the Right wrist and Hand over the Left Keeping from having the CHICKEN Wing collapse left elbow at in Impact!! Just can't get the lower body in the upper body to work as a unit a team!! Get to Flipp with the Hands and the lower Body Right side of the waist Don't Fire Down the Target🎯 Line!!!
These guys are so great. I'm sick of conventional, low data, uninformed golf instruction. You gotta have real data to understand what's going on. The real beats out the feel every time. I think the advice to have dead hands and wrists, no arm action, no arm rotation is the single worst advice you can give to beginner golfers. For golfers with 20 years of experience, the hand and wrist movements are natural, second nature. So it feels like the wrists aren't doing anything, but they actually are very active in all successful swings! Newer golfers don't have this muscle memory so they need to be told to control the club face with proper arm hand and wrist movements! It is the golfers responsibility to square the club face. This is the key piece of information that made it finally click for me and I shoot 80s after starting to play 2 years ago. It makes me sick to my stomach. I want money back from all my lessons.
@@AthleticMotionGolf The graph at 9:47 which contrasts the pro vs am club face rotation shows the pro curve to be much steeper than the am curve. I read this as the pro's ability to get closer to square sooner and stay closer to square longer that the am. So a timing error in squaring the club face will produce less of a mis-hit. Am I missing something?
@@gustavomedellin1466 keep in mind, this he graph is not club face rotation. It’s only lead forearm rotation. If hose two are not the same. But in the graph the pro is rotating more and faster than the am 😉
They are great putters. We did a putting idea last year on them. But they don’t swing themselves on plane lol. That’s still the golfer’s responsibility 🙂
(Still a great video from AMG, no shade on them. Just wanting to point out to everyone that Hack Motion are literally just paying every golf channel atm to push their gear)
🏌♂ Get our BRAND NEW Wrist Training (and Major HackMotion Discount!) for FREE Here: athleticmotiongolf.com/hackmotion
I’m getting an error message with the link you posted here
It's always nice to see that what I've been teaching for 40 years is supported by the 3D data. You guys are great at making what can be an overwhelming amount of information useful and effective. Keep it up!
Thank you Wayne !
The best in the business. Wish i would have got a lesson from them back when they were affordable. So thankful for the videos.
what do they charge ?
@@crispyduck1706 $500 hour but you get the correct info to fix your swing which saves you Thousands of hours chasing your tail 💪🏻
Awesome video that will help a lot of golfers and a lot of golf teachers. Great job guys.
Undoing common misconceptions-- awesome!!!!!!! Thanks
Thanks for watching 🙏🏻
Thank you, thank you, thank you! It works. I have been focusing obsessively on bowing the left wrist, mainly with the driver, fairway woods and irons, but I also thought that to maintain consistency I should apply it on wedge shots. Keep elbows close together, get right (trail) forearm more vertical at the top of the backswing with the elbow under the wrist or even slightly in front of it, and get left wrist in flexion (bowed). At the indoor range with practice bays and launch monitors, I have a tendency to curve to the left, with often heavy left sidespin. So today after watching this I went to the indoor range to try out a 180 degree turn and apply your "handshake" and cupped left wrist with toe up. I do know my distances pretty well with shaft horizontal, left arm horizontal, and full. So I started with 50 yards for the 52 degree gap wedge. Then 75. Then 95 (to a 100 yard pin). Mentally focused on letting the weight of the head just drop, but actively not completely passively. No tension. Relaxed, casual loosey-goosey swing like I didn't have anything to worry about. Amazing. IT WORKS! I think it actually produced more swing speed. Got really nice pitches and full wedge shots. Then applied it to my 34 degree 7 iron. Again, it worked. More shots centered, some a bit right. No loss of length. I have believed a cupped left wrist was a huge no-no and ensured a push right or slice. I suppose it might depending on other aspects of your swing. But not at all with a happy, active and relaxed swing. So thanks again for this. Will see this week how it works on the course.
Let’s go! 👏👏👏
Do you mind sharing any tidbits on the Radial/Ulnar movements for a full swing iron shot please? Thanks!
What specifics would like you to know?
@@AthleticMotionGolf Thanks for the willingness to help! Hopefully I have my terms correct, but it's my understanding that at the top of the backswing we have pretty close to maximum radial deviation and I'm curious how much ulnar travel there should be during the downswing and at impact. Should the wrist be maxed out at ulnar at impact or relatively neutral? Thanks!
@@glossolalian If you look at the angle formed by the lead forearm and shaft at address, a popular number we see in 3D is ~130 degrees. That number moves to ~90 degrees at the top. Then at impact, it's often in the 145-150 range. No way to know if that's maxed out, but it's no where near neutral and def more ulnar than at address.
@@AthleticMotionGolf Incredibly helpful! Thank you so much!
A few years ago I was probably only about 60% from 3ft and I had fears that I would miss even a 1 footer. I discovered that I was doing exactly as this videos says and was pitching the putter during the backswing. After I worked on keeping the pitch the same throughout the swing my putting has improved so much that I feel like I can make anything from inside 5ft. I'm somewhere around 93% from 3ft now.
💪🏻
Perfect timing! Just received my unit 2weeks ago. Please keep this content coming, as most of us have no other way of capturing our technique precisely (like Gears)
💪🏻💪🏻
Very interesting information. Much appreciated.
Our pleasure!
I want to start by saying I love your videos and your approach to teaching the golf swing. That said, I am having a problem in watching this video deciphering between the wrist rotation and the wrist unhinging or the change from radial to ulnar deviation. I am trying sequence this correctly but I believe I am screwing it up. And it seems to get more difficult as I add in the the lowering and extending of the right arm. Probably over thinking this movement but would certainly appreciate any light you two could shine on this. Thanks
Have more ulnar at impact than you had at address. While that’s happening, don’t try to keep the forearm from rotating. Try to keep it as simple as possible if you don’t have a way to measure it 🙂
Fantastic video as always gentlemen! Quick question - you spoke about how it’s the forearm rotating during the backswing not the whole arm at the shoulder joint. Is that the same for the downswing, or is there more rotation from the upper arm as well? Thanks in advance for your time.
More rotation from the forearm than shoulder both back and down👍
@@AthleticMotionGolf thank you very much for the quick response. Would love to see an in-depth video of this with your usual data! 🙌
Just watched your three free drills video from your we site...great stuff as always but I had no idea Shaun was struggling so much with his game, LOL!
All kidding aside, the putting part....I had no idea about hinging the wrists up and down in the putting stroke and how it can effect rolling off line. Learn something new every time with your chanel! Thanks!
👊🤓
Great stuff lads. I have hack motion but haven't learned how to actually use it to its full potential. Going forward I hope to use it when I teach and to keep my flip hooks at bay. 😁
Two great uses right there! 👊😄
At what point in the downswing do you start supinating the left arm?
Hi guys, at address, is the left wrist setup for RH golfer with some ulnar deviation or radial deviation?
I saw a video recommending some ulnar and during takeaway hinging to neutral. This has reduced some of my wrist pain in left hand as I started at address with more radial.
Thanks
If you’re learning to chip/pitch and you haven’t read Dan Greive’s book, you’re doing yourself a disservice. Talks a lot about wrist usages in chips and pitches.
Daniel Grieve
I don't think about my wrists , I just let the club head momentum create the hinge and I focus more on my right humerus accelerating thru the ball, kind of like I'm tossing the ball. I find this the easiest since I don't have a zillion hours to practice.
I think Dan’s techniques are fine if you practice everyday but using the bounce like he suggests for release two and three leave little room for error
@@crispyduck1706Actually utilizing the bounce leaves room for the most amount of error by creating a larger flat spot through impact.
Great video guys! Watching Shaun in the drills video and the amount of cup that needed added through the hit and post impact was crazy
Yep, it’s so valuable to have feedback to push us past where we “feel” is enough 🤯
@@AthleticMotionGolf no chance anyone keeps going on that feel without feedback
@@stevebeskid4398 no way
One of your best videos guys. Love it. I have a question related to ulnar deviation at address. Do Tour players have more ulnar deviation at address vs amateurs?
Yep. Ams tend to setup too far away from ball with more forward bend.
Thanks for the kind words 👊🙏🏻
What's Steve Strickers numbers ?
thanks for this great video.
if I try to bring club back waist high toe up, I quite often have trouble getting club face back to square, and instead face stays open,i blade shot or it pushes way off target line.
any ideas how I can practice to overcome this?
thanks
John
Yes! A very common issue for many golfers because most ams we see have FAR LESS forearm (lead arm) rotation in the downswing than the pros we see. It’s an epidemic myth that forearm rotation causes flipping.
Interested in hearing more about the "whole arm" vs "forearm" rotation concept briefly mentioned at 11:18
Most ams rotate the he arm too much, but too little from the forearm.
Yeah, lead forearm focus seems to really help every part of my swing. But surprisingly I’ve never heard/read anything like this before.
@@connorchristy1077 you will next week when every other teacher starts saying it and doesn’t give us credit 😂😂. Just like re-centering
So technically mind blowing no guess work with you Guys The BEST
Do you have a link to buy the hackmotion and discount code?
Yessir, it’s in the first comment 👍
Well now I'm curious if my takeaway is destroying my ball flight. I've been hitting fades all dang year and cannot fix it. I'm wondering if I'm just keeping the face too closed and doing that reverse roll which leads to the flop at the top. That's exactly what I've tried to do in an attempt to keep the face more closed (since the ball fades of course).
@@DeronSizemore give the opposite a try 🙂
Just bought a hack motion, so this content couldnt be timed any better.
Love it! Make sure to check out the free training at the link for how we like to use it 👊
The link does not appear to work. What happened?
FINALLY!! You guys are amazing…when the hack motion commercials hit the street, I was very negative about ams using it. Since the swing involves every part of the body, and your body is doing dozens if not hundreds of compensations to get you to hit the ball where you want to, when you use something like that hack motion, it invariably will require adjustments somewhere else in the swing…and if you have no idea what that other adjustment is, you just wind up doing more compensating somewhere else…thanks for putting this together…going to check out your hack motion video now!
I checked out the free lesson video you linked in the pinned comment. Noticed that for the last wrist motion for the full swing, the "turn over" or whatever you want to call it. It looked like from the graph that it happens that rapidly or sharply for the pros? So is it a matter of not doing any supination of the lead wrist until delivery, but then really letting it go and turn the toe over, rather than the popular idea of holding off the face? I've seen your colleague manzella advocate a feeling of doing a similar release straight from the top of the swing, but that doesn't quite match up with the graph does it?
That's because there is brain lag between thinking about doing something and actually doing it.
After having fought a cupped left wrist for so long, the idea of bringing it back for chip shots scares the heck out of me, but I'll try it.
Remember, we’re talking about pitches here👍
That rotation brings an element of timing into play. Take that club back square the first 12 inches, turn and fire. No thinking of a handshake.
@@Haze1552 that’s one of the worst suggestions to ever come down the pipe, for many reasons. But the main one, no player in history has ever done it. The face is always rotating in the downswing - for everyone.
@@AthleticMotionGolf to each their own. The main differences are that yes, a tour level player can rotate and time it correctly, a 10-20 handicap can’t. I sit at a 6.3 and am constantly under 80. I’ll take it.
@@AthleticMotionGolfwould be happy to email you a video that shows my swing from the ML2 to show you where my hands are. Maybe we are talking about two different things?
@@Haze1552 you rotate too. Everyone does who can hit the ball. This has all been measured fact for years now. Feel can be anything, but we have to share the facts or we’ll just keep adding to all the bad ideas that are out there. Tour players don’t do the complicated option of things, that wouldn’t make much sense for the guys/gals with the most at stake to do the least reliable movements at impact, would it?
This Have to Be the Hardest Drill and Swing Change!!
Every time at impact try Rotate the Right wrist and Hand over the Left Keeping from having the CHICKEN Wing collapse left elbow at in Impact!! Just can't get the lower body in the upper body to work as a unit a team!!
Get to Flipp with the Hands and the lower Body Right side of the waist Don't Fire Down the Target🎯 Line!!!
These guys are so great. I'm sick of conventional, low data, uninformed golf instruction. You gotta have real data to understand what's going on. The real beats out the feel every time.
I think the advice to have dead hands and wrists, no arm action, no arm rotation is the single worst advice you can give to beginner golfers. For golfers with 20 years of experience, the hand and wrist movements are natural, second nature. So it feels like the wrists aren't doing anything, but they actually are very active in all successful swings! Newer golfers don't have this muscle memory so they need to be told to control the club face with proper arm hand and wrist movements! It is the golfers responsibility to square the club face. This is the key piece of information that made it finally click for me and I shoot 80s after starting to play 2 years ago. It makes me sick to my stomach. I want money back from all my lessons.
Couldn’t agree more! Great post 🤓
I chip with my 7 iron and almost always 1 putt when I do.
What do you pitch with?
The pros
are keeping the club head square longer through impact on a full swing
The club head does not stay square for any length of time, it is always closing (very rapidly) in the downswing for all of us 🙂
@@AthleticMotionGolf The graph at 9:47 which contrasts the pro vs am club face rotation shows the pro curve to be much steeper than the am curve. I read this as the pro's ability to get closer to square sooner and stay closer to square longer that the am. So a timing error in squaring the club face will produce less of a mis-hit. Am I missing something?
@@gustavomedellin1466 keep in mind, this he graph is not club face rotation. It’s only lead forearm rotation. If hose two are not the same. But in the graph the pro is rotating more and faster than the am 😉
And just like that… I can finally chip 😅
👊😊
Or you could just buy a L.A.B golf putter and let it stay on plane for you
They are great putters. We did a putting idea last year on them. But they don’t swing themselves on plane lol. That’s still the golfer’s responsibility 🙂
Hack Motion sponsoring every video atm. Probably because they charge like £1000s for their kit. Such an obvious marketing push.
(Still a great video from AMG, no shade on them. Just wanting to point out to everyone that Hack Motion are literally just paying every golf channel atm to push their gear)