@@skell6134 why wouldn't he? Sans was still a hard obstacle at the time. Undyne and Asgore were probably obstacles as well. But captain of the royal guard and king are a lot easier to spot as powerful than random bum, so he doesn't need to warn you about those. He also has fun watching you. He probably wanted to watch you fight sans so he gave you a tip to let your curiosity get to you
@@skell6134How did sans traumatise Flowey? Unlike us Flowey can spam the save and load button so if sans was gonna do something that killed him he’d just say “Fuck you peice of shit, I’ll get you next time!” Not “Oh shit! Don’t hurt me!”
6:41 - OBJECTION! Papyrus actually likes Sans' jokes. He just doesn't like how much he's using them and that he jokes even when the timing is not quite right.
@@RandomDummy555 wiki states that it's actually true. 14 jokes of Papaya against Snas' 6. Idk if it's true tho. I played the game with a translator, not English version, so... ye.
@@StaticCeramic sans uses a lot of slang to create Little puns but the ones that stand out with sound effects or a special cutscenes are few. Even in his dying moment he does one if i remember right
"Is flowey scared of Sans" No, he's obviously scared of Papyrus. Flowey had to use 4 VINES on him in the true pacifist route, unlike everyone else who just had 2, including Sans.
Flowey himself says that he has never past asgore while saying he killed everyone, which already contradicts his no mercy run I think flowey is just unable to kill certain enemies on his own and by ''killed everyone'' he just means whoever he could kill which means sans could be one of these enemies he killed but ıt is pretty certain he has never killed asgore
@@potatofarmer9488 Actually, You only need one soul to Cross the barrier, but 7 are needed to break the barrier itself, So flowey could had just used the 6 human souls, Cross the barrier and do whatever he wanted to humanity, But, he could only get to the souls if he beats Asgore, but since he needed to wait for us to weaken him so he could do the finishing blow, so flowey was never able to beat Asgore
maybe flowey saying "he's caused me more than my fair share of resets" with his evil face just means he looks forward to seeing us having difficulty killing sans, because he would also have had difficulties but not anymore and knows it is difficult : not scared but sadistic as always
I think it's less fear and more respecting his strength and knowing fucking with him is a bad idea. Sure he CAN be killed, but it's difficult as hell. Not to mention how observant he is. He took special care to stay out of Sans' signt when talking yo Papyrus for a reason. Someone who can read people that well would get in the way of his typical method of manipulating people for his own benefit. Not to mention the fact that he knows resets which probably messed with things back when he was in control
Sans knows, that because Flowey is determined, he can kill, and just because he can, he has to. That's probably what Sans learned after countless fights with Flowey.
@@doritos4956 Fair enough but I do feel like avoiding the guy who can read him like a book when trying to manipulate his brother is especially important
Im think its more to the fact no want sans see him its this dont know he its the guy made the restes, uts the reason why thing frisk made resets after, becuase no know flowey exist
@@doritos4956 No, he probably is specifically avoiding Sans to at least some degree. Taking his own advice. Trying to make sure Sans doesn't learn anything about him (which he warns u about not letting Sans do), by avoiding him. He also doesn't want Paps to invite Paps. He could be avoiding the others too. But I think he is taking extra care to try to avoid Sans too.
5:47 this doesn't make this statement fall flat at all, those two truths can coexist. Flowey killed everyone which caused him to fight sans which inturn caused him his "fair share of resets".
When you consider that Flowey did genocide runs before us the player, it all makes sense. Sans fought a LV 19 Flowey and the only reason he hasn't gotten his hands on the souls, became a god and took over the world or something is because unlike with us, Sans managed to make Flowey quit, he broke his will to continue because he wasn't as determined as a human and retreated to the Ruins... where we eventually falled down.
Basically I think thats what was always implied flowey couldnt get past sans. He never got to LV20. At some point he decides to let the timeline progress without doing anything or interacting with anyone and then the last kid fell down and immediatly stripped his control over the timeline and thats when the game esentially begins
My theory is that when flowey was "killing everyone" aka his "no mercy run" he stumbled upon sans. He got killed so many times beacuse he cant jump like us cuz... he is a flower he doesn't have legs making the fight against him 1000x worse and hard. And this happened so many times. He said he tried everything this world has to offer which means he tried to kill sans last, middle, last, secretly, public, secretly, straight forward etc. but most of the time sans dodged beacuse he has the ability and as we can see he is the only one has that ability in underground. Not even asgore and undyne doesn't have that ability which is even more frustrating for flowey and making sans especially harder out of every monster. He couldn't use the friendliness pellets circle beacuse sans can teleport which is even more bad for flowey. In short sans was a really frustrating and hard enemy for flowey in lots of maybe infinite amount of timelines which ended up killing flowey infinite amount of time too. And that led to flowey just really disliking sans and avoiding him. I can't say hate him though cuz flowey doesn't have feeling but he can have opinions like finding papyrus as a good pal and saying we should hang out with him. So in conclusion i think flowey just really really dislikes sans
@@Alperen0064 I think that's a good theory fam. Possibly Flowey also was the reason why Sans is so lazy, because Flowey had determination and he did *a lot* of resets. So no matter what Sans does, it will all gonna be reset. Other characters wont suspect that something changed unlike Sans.
asgore dodged undyne's attacks while he was training her. he doesn't dodge in the fight against you, presumably for the same reason he destroyed the mercy button. he doesn't think he deserves mercy
@@EEE.654 we don't know anything about monster to monster fight mechanics though. Was it like deltarune overworld fight(mostly used by lancer on chapter 1)? Turn based bullet dodging fight? Classic rpg type just attacking and blocking type? It might be everything and we cant know beacuse we play as a human not a monster. In deltarune we saw how susie dodges lancers attacks on chapter 1. It was a bullet hell for susie but not lancer. Maybe asgore knew how to dodge bullet hell type of attacks like susie did but not human attacks with [Fight] button like lancer didn't. Like we don't even aim and they get hit, even a froggit can escape that but don't beacuse its probably different for them. Also this might be the reason why asgore cant dodge our attack nor undyne can even though asgore was her teacher. They both cant beacuse they dont know how to dodge human attacks also supported by there being no human to be trained by. You cant know how to dodge human attacks when there is no human around to learn from. I think sans can dodge beacuse of his teleportation magic. Like he can dodge a bullet from empty gun like isn't that crazy? In short i think its different for everyone(monsters, humans, darkners, "everyone") and we cant really know what and how is it P.S to be more clear I always imagined undertale fights as this. There is a dodger team: they can do 4 things(maybe less or more depending on situation or game). Attack, Act, Item or Mercy. And they are supposed to dodge attack from the other team which i will explain soon We play as this. And there is attacker team: They are monsters and most darkners. They mostly do 2 things: Act(talk) and attack. But some speacial ones like flowey can save, flee, load, heal, dodge in asriel form or papyrus and undyne(in date) literally spares YOU etc. But i'm not counting those i'm speaking general. In short they prepare an attack and the dodgers have to dodge and make a reponse with their 4 ways. Y'know literally undertale mechanics. But interesting is that they cant dodge. They just "take the hit". Like we don't even aim even a froggit could dodge those but they dont have the option to... But the good side is they can damage dodgers multiple times while dodgers can attack once on every turn. So its balanced for everyone and i always accepted those mechanic. One attacks other dodges and makes reponses and this loops But what is interesting is that what would happen if 2 "attackers"(monsters and some darkners) got in a fight? Yeah. Would they always dodge? Would that work? Thats like plugging an usb hub to another usb hub... But we've seen someone do that to other monsters in undertale. Toriel. Toriel attacked flowey and asgore(yeet!) I think it was an overworld fight. We were able to see it and it had effects on characters location. Normally fight wouldn't move the characters but it did with flowey and asgore. Which makes things really complicated. And as i said we've seen this on deltarune too. Lancer attacked susie and it was a classic undertale turn based fight. Maybe asgore taught undyne that? This is literally a question with no geniune answer...
Flowey saying that he did EVERYTHING is hyperbole, he directly states that he has never and could never get past Asgore no matter what he tried. He reiterated that in the Geno route, where he says that he was never able to get to the SOULs. Flowey doing "everything" is meant to relate to a completionest, who's seen every line of dialogue a hundred times and beaten every possible challenge. Flowey did everything that was available to him, but there were some things that he was physically incapable of because of his position as a weak little flower monster. We're a human with a powerful SOUL, Flowey is a delicate flower with no SOUL whatsoever. There's a big difference there, sure he has magic but even that is quite weak due to him possessing a physical body not the magical body that a monster normally has. He's rooted into the ground making movement slow and difficult, and he probably even needs to hang around the small openings to the surface otherwise he'd start withering due to lack of sun. Point is, he's extremely weak and so his options are way more limited. Sure he could get sneak attacks or do underhanded tactics to get what he wanted, but at the end of the day he's still just a flower. On the Pacifist route, Asgore was the roadblock because he refused to let Flowey see the SOULs and was too strong for him to beat. If he grinded EXP to try and become strong enough to beat Asgore, then Sans would step in and be the roadblock. It was physically impossible for Flowey to get past them, and eventually he gave up letting time move on and hoping something new would happen. Flowey isn't "afraid" of Sans, he just hates him for standing in his way and wants him dead. He has no real reason to fear anything since death is an inconvenience at worst, but he can still get frustrated and angry at bashing his head against this wall over and over without making any progress. It's not too different to us giving up against Sans, except imagine our soul is moving at 50% speed and we're locked to 10 health or w/e. That's what Flowey is dealing with.
Sans and Flowey have interacted a lot before, so both are wary of each other, but wary to the point of fear? Nah. Just wary to the point they consider each other a Thorn
Personally I do think Flowey somewhat fears Sans, just not as much as Frisk to the point where he's shitting himself. Think of it like he fears him more because he can be a mild threat, and not like how Frisk has total control over the timeline.
That's probably more annoyance than fear then. And at this point, sans wouldn't be a threat at all to Flowey. Aside from being an obstacle in manipulating Papyrus
A very good video! Well made! People really do ignore that fact that Flowey killed EVERYONE once. The only reason he wasn't all powerful when we fell, is because Asgore wouldn't show him where the souls were. He beat him, sans, undyne, everyone, but didn't know where those souls were. It was thanks to us he found them.
I don't think anyone could be scared of sans. What is flowey up to, that sans might guess what kind of powers he has, and what scares flowey, that someone would know about resets.
I never saw Flowey as someone afraid of sans, he, just like the player found sans to be the hardest character in the game, not that he he couldn't beat sans, he probably did, but it's clear that Flowey has disliking towards sans mainly because of the fight with him but the bad puns might also be a reason why he tends to call sans "smiley trashbag." I also find it interesting that Flowey doesn't seem to give out thoughts to Alphys despite being the person that him brought him life. Also nice Save Goatbro gameplay in the background.
@@InternetFanatic good theory fam and thx I couldnt think of better background back then. Now I think regular Undertale gameplay with room transitions is better and more colorful than fangames cause they're mainly black and dark, making the video and retention boring.
It’s the same as Frisk’s genocide runs, they still kill everyone in the end including Sans, but not before having spent their fair share of resets on him having a bad time… Though you could also argue that Flowey was never able to make it past Sans because he never got to reach the absolute like Frisk did, so by “everyone”, he could’ve also meant “basically everyone”, but not “literally everyone”
I wonder what Flowey thinks about Annoying dog and his room or the shrine. If he sees everything the world has to offer, then he must know something about Toby, right?
Flowey absolutely couldnt have done infinite resets. Infinite is a number that is constantly growing and is always larger(not counting higher infinities here) If flowey were to do "infinite" resets then Frisk or the other fallen humans wouldn't have fallen. Flowey eventually gets bored and allows the world to go on eventually leading to when Frisk fell and thus overriding his ability to reset. This would make the number of reseys flowey has done *finite* . Because Flowey only did so many resets to see every outcome in the underground, but he didnt do everything as he was unable to get to the souls and reach the surface. Which means he didnt achieve *every* possibility. And that also is more proof that he didnt reset infinite of times as he wouldve eventually found the souls as no matter how many tries it'd take he technically has infinite tries. If Flowey actually reset infinite times. He would still be reseting as if he ever stopped it would make the number of resets he did finite. So that means he would never stop. Meaning Frisk would never have fallen. The fact that flowey isn't reseting is proof. And also that there is only a finite amount of things he could do before getting bored. A large number of things but a finite amount of things nonetheless. Tho personally I think Flowey is somewhat scared of sans but hates him more. Mainly since. You and I. We had the luxury of tutorials, taking breaks, watching videos, or just stalling in the judgement hall since the fight won't start until we walk forward and meet Sans in the hall. In Floweys perspective he has none of that and in the game when you die you aren't spawned into a "Reset" and "Continue" button menu like the fanon wants to portray. You're automatically spawned back in the hall or wherever you died. And since Fĺowey isn't a human if flowey tries to take a break Sans will get impatient and dunk on him rather than waiting and judging him and Flowey makes more expressios to judge what happened. Anywhere Flowey can appear using his ability to dig into the ground will be rendered null by sans just blipping him back into position like he does to us at the end of the fight. Or just teleporting where he goes. But I do think Flowey did eventually kill sans. Many people irl did by simply trying over and over again and they probably had things to do in the real world. Flowey literally has nothing better to do so eventually he would kill sans just like us. And he can load his save file and try again until he does a no hit run merg style. And seeing how he wanted to try every possibility in the world he'd absolutely try that.
sad how you didn't mention, asriel copied some of sans behaviours in his boss fight, like the shrug headshake, the gaster blaster and the wink flowey isn't scared of sans, he just sees him as the toughest obsacle, his personal final boss and those elements are why we know for a fact flowey fought sans, and also no your explanation on how flowey reset an infinite amount of time is illogic, even if he changed timelines entirely thus making time in previous timeline irrelevant it still doesn't make him able to reach infinity on the contrary it makes his resets Null and irrelevant as if he never did them according to relativity
Saying Asriel copied Sans with his behavior would be a really bold statement and not necesarily true. Another thing about RESETS. If you spent totally 0 time on an action, you're not losing time and you can preform LOTS of them. Its the same thing you divide 1 by a fraction. Like this 1/0,1 = 10, 1/0,01 = 100, 1/0,001 = 1000, so you see the closer you are to 0 the more and more you get the bigger numbers and thus closer to infinity.
@@Undertalenjoyer Saying asriel copied sans isn't a bold statement, and is on the contrary pretty logic, asriel literally has the exact same poses throughout the fight and the hyper goner is clearly a gaster blaster, we know asriel tried every pacifist route before deciding to go genocide (toby doesn't leave this kind of details randomly) and on a narrative point of view it makes no sense to put it here if that's not the case, sans isn't the type to attack you on spot despite what he said to you in the restaurant, yes he made a promise but before fighting you he sometimes explains how he would have hoped to be friends with you, considering all murders flowey commited, karma magic should be really affective against him, i don't think flowey tells you to stay away from sans without having fought him prior because i don't see a world in which flowey decide to kill everyone and sans just decided to stay on the sidelines. When you kill Papyrus, Sans observes you from afar expecting You would turn around and reconsider your choices, flowey certainly didn't do that so flowey 100% fought sans, and saying flowey has no emotions at all is wrong, he's pissed when you try to spare him annoyed when you kill yourself in a loop when he's in his photoshop flowey form, he is scared at the end of genocide knowing you would 100% kill him, in the echo flowers you can hear him too, he sounds desperate, he also seems to resent alphys, flowey isn't emotionless at all, he just feels very little emotions, in reality it's more that he has no morality. Also not losing time doesn't make flowey able to perform an infinity of resets, if asriel performs a reset and changes timelines, even if coming back in time through a save that doesn't change the number of resets he performed, there's no need to divide because he came back in time himself, it's not the timeline that reset on it own, even if you were to come back in time repeatedely you wouldn't be able to perform an action an infinite amount of time, except if this action creates an infinite amount of timelines but let's be honest, it probably creates a new timeline per reset.
@@AbyssalBlue24 If you think that showing or expressing similar body language is considered "copying" then that means everyone is technically copying from each other. I wouldnt agree that "Hyper Goner" is similar to Gaster blaster. Like its a skull, but has a completely different mechanic. Hyper Goner works like a vacuum, and Gaster blaster as a beam of light. Asriel Dreemurr didnt copy Sans, since there is nothing to copy. You cant just copy body language. you show it according to the character or situation, regardless if someone does similar gestures and mimics. About resetting and timelines, i can say that in the main menu where you choose either continue or reset, the time doesnt pass there. Main menu is like exclusive type of place to Determination users, literally a "power to play God", and making the user not really bound to time. The user can just load to the last save file, and be before something even happened previously, allowing to make literally infinite attempts, as many as they like. Thats why Sans says "You're very determined huh? You dont do this because you "can", but you "have to". Its Meaning that no matter how hard the obstacle is, sooner or later you'll get through it.
@@AbyssalBlue24the hyper goner ISNT a gaster blaster 😭 it’s quite obvious in the design. Jsut because they both are somewhat skulls doesn’t necessarily prove that
I agree on Flowey not fearing Sans, or at least not anymore. Because he probably felt fear, maybe not toward Sans however, or not for long, since he knew he could reset. As for the Grillby's Sans dialogue, I'm pretty sure that he actually doesn't know about Flowey, simply because Flowey never interacted with Sans in this timeline.
Sans does know about Flowey to at least some extent in the current timeline of the game. Talking Flower is in yellow, and echo flower is in blue (Sans shows he will mess with font color). Showing Sans is talking about different things.
@Dragon_Aoi Well I don't know. Sans spoke about stop signs with like three different font colors. That means he doesn't completely care about that. Now that I think of it, he might have done the stop sign trick knowing it was funny, and maybe he did speak about talking flowers in yellow knowing what it could mean...
@@wartkras I mean yeah, the font color thing with stop signs was him purposely messing with wordplay, colors, and the font colors to mess with you. He was also trying to help you, but also, help you in the most confusing way too. Because he was also messing with you. This point only goes to further show, that font color can be quite deliberate with Sans. And in Grillby's well, I already said it, so I am not saying it again.
Honestly, sans with his knowledge could be a near infinite wellspring of entertainment for flowey. But Flowey knows Sans will almost never ACT on this information cause Sans knows that it would be meaningless. This is headcanony, but I would assume that a lot of his resets outside of fighting him were just trying to get him to break character. Sans is clearly a interesting character but we really don't know all to much about him and that probably frustrated the hell out of flowey that no matter how many attempts, he could never truly uncover who sans really is. I mean, even we as Frisk still don't know what the hell is truly up with sans secret room. Just theories.
Ngl I like thinking about the fact Flowey is strong asf even without the souls He’s a PLANT that can grow as much as he wants, he has the entire EARTH on his side
I’ve been into Undertale since I was a little kid and after enough looking around in the fandom I started to get a little annoyed seeing sans portrayed as an all seeing god! I swear all comics have him remember our resets and they always make him… depressed? They always make him ALMOST die then they make him refuse to get help and, well you get the point. I’m just saying we should give other Undertale characters a chance to shine in the Undertale fandom!!!
Of course Snas ain't an all-seeing god, he's just a lazy skelton monster that that's aware of the fourth wall and bends the physics around himself occasionally (to a degree).
The reason he probably doesnt want you to interact with sans is because you could bring up things about flowey and soul would just give him a bad time or he probably doesn't want you to do a pacifist
I like to imagine Flowey is envious of Sans's ability to be terrifying, Flowey's evil face kind of looking similar to sans, it would work with the fact that Flowey imitates people's faces
My personal theory has always been Flowey has never killed Sans. He never finished a Genocide Run because Sans always beat him in the Judgment Hall. Forcing him to Rage-Quit. Remember, if it werent for Chara's growing strength dealing the final blow, Frisk wouldnt have killed Sans either. At the end of the Geno run we have enough power to destroy everything. Thats the only reason why Sans interfears. Given the world is still here by the time Frisk falls down, I gather Flowey never got to that point. He never killed everyone, like he says he did. I think he only says that because he has ESSENTIALLY killed everyone bar Sans. Sans probably thinks the Echo Flowers are talking to Papyrus because Sans probably thinks Flowey is a joke. Reminds me of the "You haven't beaten this guy yet" line.
@@dolcethesmorse1890 I think at some point Flowey would get the upper hand when fighting with Sans. He had plenty of time after all. Also it doesnt neccesarily mean that Flowey couldn't do the same as Chara. If we assume that fights between Flowey and Sans had the same mechanics, as between Frisk and Sans, then Flowey *technically* could create his ring of friendliness pellets, making his attack unavoidable thus winning against Sans.
@Undertalenjoyer The thing is tho, Sans V Frisk is different than Sans V Flowey. Flowey isn't being haunted by a spirit, let alone a spirit strong enough to physically attack someone the way Chara does. Also not only could Sans's teleport completely negate a ring of Friendliness Pellets but he has been shown to block them with bones before. Also while Flowey may have unlimited attempts, he does not have unlimited patience in the way Frisk does. Without the surprise attack of Chara, then Frisk and Flowey would both be unable to get an upper hand on the comedian Sans is both an unstoppable force and an immovable object, only ever taken down by the power of the 6 souls or a surprise attack from Chara. And that's why Flowey hates him so much. At least that's my opinion
@@dolcethesmorse1890 @dolcethesmorse1890 Flowey doesnt need a spirit. He can use multiple attacks in one turn. Sans maybe could teleport but he never blocks Flowey's friendliness pellets. That was Papyrus's bone. And even in PH2 Asriel fight Sans never attacks too. Only Papyrus. Flowey can attack with multiple bullets in one turn which would quite literally tell already that every turn for Sans would be deadly. "Sans is an unstoppable force and an immovable object".... thats glazing. He is neither an unstoppable force on immovable object if he can be defeated. And remember. Sans may have been different before. He still may have 1 HP back then because he didnt sleep much. The resets completely made doing anything for him utterly useless. And as I think of it right now. Maybe Flowey hates Sans because he remembers. I mean not remembers but has some sort of deja vu after resetting.
@@Undertalenjoyer Sans can use shortcuts though, he can take a shortcut away from those pellets (this is assuming sans would ever fight flowey, which I doubt, he probably wouldnt care if he was killed or not)
flower feels fear, but it's obvious that he never felt any from sans. Flowey when at the end of a genocide route says things like "what is this feeling" "I'm shaking" which is pretty obviously fear, in case you didn't know... although, his lack of experience with fear shows that his encounters with sans never felt true fear.
@@KrisCrossssss yea flowey still can develop some sort of empathy. For example for Toriel who he claims "forgets to drink, eat and even sleep", and she always wakes up to a glass water filled near to the brim. Dialogues and information you can find in the alarm clock dialogues for 5th anniversary of Undertale.
Flowey can't have reset "infinite" times. Infinity isn't something you can get to eventually like a number, it's something that can't possibly be reached. No matter how many times Flowey may have reset, there will always be a "next highest number" that comes beforehand. It's obvious that Clamgirl was speaking metaphorically when she said "This world has infinite possibilities."
I think it’s more like ‘this guy can rock the hell out of me, killing him isn’t worth the trouble,” judging by how he literally tells us to NOT let him know ‘anything’ and the fact him killing.. EVERYONE is a little vague, maybe he did? Maybe he didn’t, he may have learned his lesson to not screw with sans’.
6:40 There's something you're missing here, it may be important, it might not, but it's worth mentioning. Papyrus still *loves* puns, in fact, he makes over twice as many as sans does (6:14). It's mostly sans using his puns as... [I don't know if there's a word for it... A cover-up?] for his laziness. For example (not the exact words from the cutscene but you know what I'm on about). "YOU'VE GOTTEN NO WORK DONE TODAY! Hey, calm down. I've done a *ton* of work. A *skele-ton.* " This is the scene that makes most people think Papyrus hates puns, because he is mad at sans [for his laziness], and sans makes 3 of his puns. He even ends the cutscene by saying (again, paraphrasing) "ABOUT YOUR WORK. PUT A LITTLE MORE... *BACKBONE* INTO IT! NYEH HEH HEH HEH!". So Flowey not liking sans just because he makes bad puns sometimes would be *terrible* writing when Papyrus is his "most fun plaything". It's sans' laziness, and knowledge of timelines resetting *_[NOT AU's, THAT'S ALPHYS._*_ I just needed to say that]_ (Why do anything if it's all going to reset anyway, might as well have fun with it) We can tell from High LV Neutral routes he won't do anything unless he absolutely has to (Fight is ONLY on Geno route, it's an attempt to make you give up out of frustration and either reset or leave the world alone). Flowey does everything he can because he can, and was even willing to kill everything out of curiosity. Sans only does everything he HAS to and tries to make things fun because it's all meaningless anyway. They're completely different mindsets. That could be why Flowey doesn't like him. Their personalities conflict plus sans being more aware of everything he's done. *Not enough to make him reset, though. That's why most people think Flowey would be scared of him.* The other reason people think it is because of sans' ability to deal *Mother-inspired poison damage* based on how evil a person is. With Flowey explaining how he never managed to take out Asgore, after many resets deciding to go area to area wiping out everyone, it makes sense he would believe someone as lazy and weak as sans (1 ATK, 1 DEF, presumably 32 HP since Papyrus is 20x stronger and has 640 hp) 'wouldn't be worth the EXP for the time taken' [I can't explain why, I can only compare it to fighting Jerry in every encounter on a Geno route] and deciding just to take him out later, once he becomes God. He leaves sans behind, and sans decides later to fight him (possibly having the same expectations as what would happen in the Player's Geno route). Flowey resets because *Flowey loses. Goes back to his save. Loses again. Reload. Repeat.* (No soul means can't dodge attacks or something, since you dodge with the soul. I'm not Toby though), getting stuck in the losing loops multiple times. This is the best explanation I have for why most of the fanbase believe Flowey is scared of sans. [Why did I write twelve paragraphs for "Oh actually Papyrus likes Puns, he was just mad at sans then. Sans uses a variety of jokes, mainly pranks. Or non-pun jokes."? Nobody knows.]
Just saying, but it's implied both Sans Alphys work together, so Sans knowing about Alternative Universes is likely, if no hinted at with the whole "Don't tell the other Sanses". Still, everything else is pretty accurate. Besides the whole "Papyrus makes over twice the amount of Puns sans makes", which... I've got no idea where you got that from.
@@tiarahamlin6351By counting them. A good number of Papyrus phone calls contain puns and other wordplay (especially in Hotland.) Adding all of them together does show Papyrus makes around twice as many puns as Sans.
@@CR1MSONACE its not Flowey hating puns in general, its more about hearing them from someone he genuinely dislikes. He obviously likes Papyrus, so he doesn't mind them.
@@freeformed1232 Wordplay is different from Puns, and although Puns are a form of Wordplay, wordplay as a whole is much more than puns. Concerning specifically puns, Papyrus makes 20 puns in-game, while Sans makes 17 puns. This is without counting other canon material, like the Papyrus interviews, Deltarune, Sans literally playing the TROMBONE, or whenever Sans is mentioned to having made puns in the past, like Papyrus talking about the troll who sends him puns in a goofy font.
It's pretty funny when one realizes that flowey would realistically beat Sans in a fight if he were to have the six souls (Glitchtale was just glaze tbh)
It could be possible since the same way how Flowey fears us now he fears Sans too considering he can't come. Haven't played undertale for a while now so correct me if I'm wrong.
Technically, Flowey can feel fear only if someone has a high LV and has a strong desire to kill. Flowey has still some "essence" left from Asriel, and Asriel is a monster, which could explain why he exhibits such feelings, similarly to monsters. It doesn't work with Sans though as Sans doesn't have either determination or intent to kill. Only when neccessary. Sans is more harmless than regular monsters to be honest.
I always believed that Flowey's "scary face" actually came from Sans, especially knowing he has a gimmick of copying monster faces. Flowey might not be outright terrified of him, but he's definitely intimidated to some degree.
I see many people say Flowey never got past Asgore, He did, He says without your help He NEVER could have gotten past Him, The main reason behind that is He doesn't have the ability to save and load anymore so He wouldn't risk a fight with His life on the line with Asgore, The only thing He never managed to do was absorb the souls because Asgore wouldn't show It to Flowey.
Flowey having some trouble with sans and flowey killing every monster is not contredictory, also while flowey has no soul souless creatures in undertale can still feel emotions like joy irritation and of course fear, flowey in the no mercy route just wasnt used to that feeling due to the fact that he really had nothing to fear before as it could all be reset
The way i see it, while Flowey did of course manage to kill and befriend Sans, it was much harder to do than with any other character just because of how much more aware Sans is. it's much more difficult for someone like Flowey to fool Sans into trusting him and becoming friends, and it's obviosly a huge pain in the ass to fight him. Also for all we know, he could've been dealing with a Sans that hasn't entirely given up on the world and become nihilistic yet, a Sans that cared more and would maybe even go out of his way to spoil Flowey's plans when he was messing with the world. Point is, i think Sans was just a huge pain in the ass for Flowey and he fucked him up in many ways on a bunch of different runs
@@MalalikoGaming-ph4ve yeah but still Flowey doesnt have 92 hp or smth. He has much more (his body tanked multiple countless slashes at the end of genocide) i think sans is too lazy to even attack Flowey tho. If he doesnt attack player for killing papyrus then he wouldnt attack flowey either.
I'm copying a comment I made on Reddit a while ago, because I think it adds to this discussion: "If I have ONE piece of advice for you. DON'T let [Sans] find out ANYTHING about you. He'll... well... Let's just say. He's caused me more than my fair share of resets. Stay away from that guy." During the dinner with Sans he says that the only reason the human wasn't dead upon walking out of the Ruins was because of his promise to Toriel. And he knows we can mess with the timeline. Flowey, of course, was not so fortunate enough to get a promise like that. In this instance, I don't think Flowey is talking about Sans during one of his "kill everyone" runs specifically. He's just talking about Sans finding out about his control over the timeline and then just fucking dunking him right there and then - regardless of what he was doing. That being said, Sans probably did kick Flowey's ass a few times in some of those "kill everyone" runs solely because a random flower showing up out of nowhere and killing people probably tipped Sans off that he was the anomoly. But I think Flowey's fight with Sans was a lot different than our fight with Sans. Sans fights us because the reports he and Alphys(?) had were (correctly) predicting the literal end of time. He had to give it his all to save everyone from being erased. Flowey didn't have the capacity to end the world and the reports likely would predict that the world would eventually reset anyway. Now, Sans probably didn't like that Flowey was going around killing everyone and he wanted the anomaly dealt with, but the stakes ultimately weren't the same as they were with us.
I think he beaten sans at least once. or else he wouldn't been bored from killing everyone why he would be if there very hard boss? (He sees world as a game like how gamer can be angry because of it being hard) People say flowey never killed asgore but i am not sure about that why?. He says he never got to asgore to show souls to him because asgore clearly suspected him so it didn't mattered if asgore died or not.
@@F3lipe-u8x if he give up he would be dead. Literally. Because if you give up you will not be able to restart after death. Giving up is just death sentence for flowey in a figth
@@markopujic660 and than he talks about how he killed asgore. Think about it like that : Flowey can easily capture asgore (pacifist ending and probably kill him while he is just) he just captured him only thing killing asgore is useless if he doesn't show souls. And we see flowey can absorb monsters souls too.
the thing about this and the reason i think this is a little wonky is because flowey saying he killed everyone could only imply everyone he could...sadly wording is a little B when it comes to this things
true, although Flowey had a huge advantage already with 6 souls, which wasn't really a raw example of Flowey. That's why I hesitated to put it in there.
Flowey CAN feel emotion. If Flowey was truly empty, then how can he have felt something when killing? How did he feel fear in the Genocide route? Flowey had tears in the Genocide route. You can even see the sadness on his face when Frisk spares him after the Omega Flowey fight. A more accurate description is that when his Soul was removed, he was DEPRESSED, making it harder to feel love or empathy, not that he was completely empty.
The “infinite possibilities” statement is hyperbolic. No, it wouldn’t just be in affect for when you don’t reset. That would still imply that Flowey went through an infinite amount of events. Basically, he would still be doing them by the time Frisk comes. Even if time resets, that’s still impossible.
True! though the cases where he shows emotions are not really frequent for him. In genocide, Frisk had LV 19 and Flowey were scared of them, he even was confused about "shaking". Flowey is not a monster but is mainly brought to life due to Asriel's dust and determination, that's why he could feel something like that. Monsters tend to be scared, and weakened when someone is strong and with strong desire to kill and to hurt. And in Neutral, it's kinda other type of feeling. And in this case it could be like "love" or something I guess. Even he doesn't understand these feelings, as he says.
Well, the phrase about “killed everyone” just seems like a simplification Still, he would physically not be able to kill Amolgam, he himself mentioned that he could never defeat Asgore, it is unlikely that he fought with Gersan So, in theory, Sans can also be the one whom Flowey did not pass or passes but with difficulty As for me, this is what he meant when he spoke about Sansa and insulted him. Still, I think at the Genocide from Flowery Sans he was given a serious battle, and this bothered Flowery or annoyed him more than normal, hence the hostility + Sans is smart, so I think Flowey is still dissatisfied with the fact that Sans is very difficult to push around and artificially create some kind of unusual scenario
In my theory, Flowey only defeated Sans in full power during... odd circumstances (I say odd, cause W.D. Gaster gets involved) Flowey sometimes kills Sans, like he does to Asgore and Gerson, sometimes because all 3 were holding back, and sometimes through... unconventional means (underhanded tactics, malicious pranks, etc.)
I don’t think the explanation that time and his existence can be infinite simply because he can reset the clock, and therefore he has experienced infinite timelines. Yeah, it’s THEORETICALLY possible, but Flowey makes it absolutely clear that he’s simply got bored of continuing. He could be more likened to the common explanation of the previous 6 humans who just gave up their soul due to not being able to make it past Asgore (whether you disagree with that theory or not doesn’t change that it could apply to Flowey too). Somebody wouldn’t just be bored if they experienced infinite timelines, they’d practically be brain dead from information overload. Plus, let’s not forget that Flowey can’t override our save file except in the neutral and pacifist endings, which he doesn’t even utilize fully as we keep access to those files after each respective ending. What does that mean? Flowey couldn’t have possibly experienced infinite possible realities, as the only period of time he was able to use his resets was the finite duration of time between becoming alive, and Frisk arriving underground. He also know there can’t really be infinite timelines within that period of time, as there are finite positions in 3D space one can be in due to Planck length, but for a simpler example, consider the following; Flowey goes to the ice cream shop and is offered either chocolate or vanilla. He can choose one of these two possibilities, but he could also ask for taco flavoured ice cream. Well, they’ll say they don’t have it, so Flowey can just travel back in time and introduce taco ice cream to their menu by some manipulation so he can order it later. But, what if Flowey wanted to exist in a timeline where he had no input on whether or not taco flavour ice cream was ever invented (so he stays entirely absent from all the moments leading up to the moment he chooses to get ice cream), but STILL be able to order it later on? Well, he can’t. I mean, he can ASK for it, but there is no way the timeline can exist where the ice cream isn’t available but they serve it to Flowey anyway. This means all possible decisions that CAN exist depend entirely on the previous decisions made, and so every decision must result in less possible decisions being possible to make in the future, which is sort of like how the factorial function can be used in real world problems. You may also say “well he could ask for taco flavoured ice cream, but he could ALSO ask for HDJEINSBAUSH flavoured yogurt and then stab the shopkeeper instead”, and sure, but when every syllable you can speak takes a non-zero amount of time to say, and Flowey is limited by the amount of time between becoming alive and Frisk’s arrival, there must also be finite things Flowey can physically say aloud. Simply put, Flowey did not experience infinite time because he existed within the finite rules of his universe prior to Frisk arriving. So what does Clam Girl refer to then? Well it seems very plausible that the goners and Gaster exist in a sort of dimension outside the space and time that makes up the Undertale universe. They aren’t physically limited by the same rules as Flowey who exists within finite time in finite space. Consider Deltarune how it has dark worlds, the light world, the program that makes up the game, the computer that runs that program, and the real world. Darkners are limited to the physical reality of their own dark world, lightners cannot venture outside the light world (without highly specific external circumstances), there seems to be a character trapped in the code of the game, and supposedly Gaster is capable of interacting with our world via Toby Fox’s Twitter. They all have layers, and their limits are defined by the limits of their layer, so as far as a character trapped within the confines of the game is concerned, a being who can see more alternate realities than the sum of all possible actions that can be done in the game, must be capable of seeing “infinite” realities, as they are all physically unobtainable by someone trapped in the game. So no; what Flowey experienced wasn’t infinitude, it was getting bored after experiencing all the finite realities he cared to explore.
i personally dont think flowey could beat sans if the battle was using the same attack system used during the player's battles. As in the genocide route his infamous special attack (staying on his turn indefinitely) would probably just bore flowey into a reset, and even if it didn't sans is still able to dodge the player's attack after the player cheats by moving the battle box. Even if he used the vines from true pacifist or the pellet circle from the beginning of the game, sans would probably be able to dodge that too by reading flowey's facial expressions (like he does with how many times the player dies to him in the genocide route fight) And considering how he is warning the player about how many resets he had to do during his fight with sans (why else would sans cause him to reset so many times?), even if flowey did manage to beat him it would have taken him (as flowey himself said) more than his fair share of resets.
I like how from flowers line "sets of numbers lines of dialogue I've seen them all" Implies that he has seen all of sans lines including the ones in genocide where he tells you how many times he has killed you Meaning flowey must have lost seemingly infinite times. This however creates a paradox as for flowey to have seen every line of dialogue he must have also beaten sans at more than once most likely also infinite times Correct me if I'm wrong tho
The clear conclusion is that Flowey is like us players before we had a bad time with Sans getting killed hundreds of times just to memorize the attack pattern going back all over again but in the end ended up killing everyone including Asgore which we can't lie about it also died multiple times during pacifist run in short after memorizing everything it became boring cause it became easier and that's why Flowey hates Sans instead of fearing him
@@Undertalenjoyer I mean I can understand that much I love Sans and the character design in fact he's my most favorite because of how cool he is but in the end he's still a monster without DETERMINATION unlike Flowey and Frisk or Chara so it's only a matter of TIME and few RESETS I can't keep glacing about him and I accept that fact
@@enchantedgoldenapple3290 yep and she is literally one of the FUN characters. I mean clamgirl outright says like she is really convinced for it to be true and second, why should she lie?
flowery is afraid of papyrus since he is all powerfull but he's too soft which is why flowery got on his good side of course everyone is though but this is not canon
Explain this is easy: Flowey did a genocide, Sans judged him, Flowey took lots of dmg and died lots of times because of the KR he wad taking due to high LV, and adviced you because fighting Sans was probably extremely annyoing (Die and come back lots of times). Flowey's nit afraid of Sans, he just finds having to fight Sans extremely incovienient.
Welp, my long-ish comment going over some stuff in this video and this topic more generally is just gone now for some reason. Might try reposting it (maybe post some of the comment as replies, to make the comment less long? Like, I don't think there were any words in that YT flag and thus delete my comment, but I wouldn't know, because YT just deletes comments without giving a reason or warning really. Which is great of them - not really -) on here. Because I worked awhile on it, but I also don't just want it/them to get deleted again. So we will see. Might not re-post it/them in that case.
I'm looking at held comments and there's nothing from you specifically. UA-cam may automatically delete comments that contain links, or certain words but I have no idea what words could you use on an undertale video for it to be deleted honestly. Weird, but appreciate your comment fam.
And if Flowey killed EVERYONE that means he killed even monsters that player cann't see and in locations that player cann't be (I know that ut yellow is not cannon but you can see that underground is really huge at backgrounds)
It basically means that he spent no time when preforming resets, allowing him to preform infinite of them, and basically be stuck and bored in that loop of saving, loading, resetting, trying different combinations while having false hope that something would change. And nothing did.
@@Undertalenjoyer but he is a finite being, he can't do a infinite amount of anything. if he were to do an "infinite" amount of resets he'd just be stuck endlessly doing them while everything else is basically frozen
@@Vikt-vg8nz Flowey says that determintion is "the power to reshape the world, the power to play God" is just meaning that determination allowed him to do so many. And he would be stuck, if the time passed, but it doesnt. That means he just does them in an instant. From his perspective, he does every action in order. From observers perspective it was just Flowey being from his last save and nothing in between.
@@Undertalenjoyeryou cant reach infinity. Sure, he can use his ability infinite times cause here isnt a limit to how much he can reset, but that does not mean he reached infinity, because you cant. Sure, you can reach an insanley high number, but that number will judt keep going up. Reaching infinity would imply it has an end, which would be contradictory to the concept of infinity.
….floweys just annoyed whenever he has to fight sans cause sans always gets under his skin and just cause flowey to have a hatred towards the guy cause he likes to put the battle in his favor remember bones on menu and such?
Sans sees right through everyone. And I think that Flowey is a victim of that. Probably in addition to the tough fight, Sans gave him a little psychological torture lol. On Flowey genocide run i mean.
@@SirSurRush Sans isn't known from psychically hurting anyone, he just abuses the game mechanics. Flowey on the other hand couldn't be a victim of a "psychological torture", cause psychological torture refers to methods that cause mental and emotional suffering. Yet Flowey cant emotionally suffer.
@@Undertalenjoyer I meant that maybe Sans found out who Flowey was and said a lot of things about it that made even Flowey uncomfortable. Also judged as a player and stuff. But yes, that doesn't go well with Flowey's soullessness and I thought it's more likely Flowey was saying that Sans knows mechanics well, studies how you fight, your attacks, limits etc.
well, you are HORRENDOUSLY wrong at the "flowey's infinite reset" thingy just cuz clam girl said that the possibilities are infinite doesn't mean they are actually infinite.and not only that infinite means endless and with the human entering the underground and having more dt to out determine flowey already breaks that. Not only that infinite is extremely large, even tho people may just think of it as not even that big, like flowey would be bored at the 20000th reset but he wouldn't even try to go for like 100 trillion resets. he would be sooo bored that he might just give up or stop thinking completely like kars from jjba part 2, he would just become a normal flower with attacking capabilities. however i agree with you that flowey is not scared of sans but rather sees him as a very large threat. but now that human has arrived flowey cant reset nor can he load save files, so the circumstances might change if sans decides to attack him now.
I think yes and no. I think Flowey was forced to do literally anything within his reach thus still rendering a "countless" number. (Yeah as I think of it I could word that better in the video)
So much of this is fluff and unnecessary, it’s very clear what’s going on Flowey fought sans, sans is very difficult and gave flowey a bad time, he isn’t afraid of him, but he knows what he’s capable of and suggest to us that we should tell him anything, that’s why he said “he caused me more fair share of my resets then I can count” every time you die and come back, that’s included as a reset, flowey died a bunch of times to him.
You are making it’s literally more of a theory when it’s obvious “my fair shake if resets” I’m not trying to be rude but are you not seeing that? Flowey obviously got into conflict with sans and died multiple times, but still I love your observation
Of course, him dying was unevitable at some point but he always could go back to his save point, and try to kill sans over and over and over, which at some point he did.
This video is very disconnected. You jump from point to point too abruptly and you don't really explain your reasonings that well at all. Your point about Flowey resetting infinite times just left me more confused than before and I don't think your conclusion was correct.
![Undertale - Comic Dub: "Megalo" [Sans Vs Flowey]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/5Wt_72dENKc/mqdefault.jpg)
he doesn’t really fear him since he can just reset anyway, but he sees him the same way a normal player does facing him, a really tough obstacle
The one tough obstacle which left him traumatised, lol
@@skell6134 probably not. In fact, Sans being tough was probably a good thing to flowey. Something new.
@@doritos4956 Wouldnt warn us if he wasnt afraid of him atleast in some way
@@skell6134 why wouldn't he? Sans was still a hard obstacle at the time. Undyne and Asgore were probably obstacles as well. But captain of the royal guard and king are a lot easier to spot as powerful than random bum, so he doesn't need to warn you about those. He also has fun watching you. He probably wanted to watch you fight sans so he gave you a tip to let your curiosity get to you
@@skell6134How did sans traumatise Flowey? Unlike us Flowey can spam the save and load button so if sans was gonna do something that killed him he’d just say “Fuck you peice of shit, I’ll get you next time!” Not “Oh shit! Don’t hurt me!”
The implication is clear. Sans gave Flowey a bad time
Flowey was us before we arrive
But still won
@@epicsans5553 he never says he won against sans, he cant even beat asgore
@@caimanfragoso1137 that's true but in one of his lines he says that he killed Everyone, meaning that he also killed sans
@@epicsans5553Still most likely Sans left Flowey with severe PTSD from how much petals he ripped off of him,lol
I’d always taken it as him being wary, not scared. Sure, even in the event he could be a threat to flowey, he couldn’t truly die anyways.
Fr
6:41 - OBJECTION!
Papyrus actually likes Sans' jokes. He just doesn't like how much he's using them and that he jokes even when the timing is not quite right.
Yep i think paps makes more jokes i the actual game than sans does (tho i don't remember so maybe i'm saying bullshit)
@@RandomDummy555 wiki states that it's actually true. 14 jokes of Papaya against Snas' 6.
Idk if it's true tho. I played the game with a translator, not English version, so... ye.
@@StaticCeramic sans uses a lot of slang to create Little puns but the ones that stand out with sound effects or a special cutscenes are few.
Even in his dying moment he does one if i remember right
I’m pretty sure papyrus likes jokes, just not the puns that sans tells. He thinks they’re too lazy or smth.
@@12Blast If i remember Paps thinks Sans's jokes have horrible timing, like Sans throws jokes at any moment, especially when Paps is talking to him
"Is flowey scared of Sans"
No, he's obviously scared of Papyrus. Flowey had to use 4 VINES on him in the true pacifist route, unlike everyone else who just had 2, including Sans.
I thought it was just since he’s t a l l lol
Ong
It’s probably is cause Papyrus is tall…he could even be taller then Asgore
paps is just tall and sure hes really strong but i believe at least its only level of undyne the undying
@@robertoxlnubillux8964 Nah he can definitely effortlessly destroy reality if he wanted to.
Flowey himself says that he has never past asgore
while saying he killed everyone, which already contradicts his no mercy run
I think flowey is just unable to kill certain enemies on his own and by ''killed everyone'' he just means whoever he could kill
which means sans could be one of these enemies he killed but ıt is pretty certain he has never killed asgore
pretty sure he meant past the BARRIER, since he would need the souls to escape.
@@potatofarmer9488 "Without you, I NEVER would have been able to get past him! But now, with your help, he's DEAD."
@@jacobblakely2224he was mocking us, in genocide he says what he helped and killed everyone, he did everything, except receiving souls
@@potatofarmer9488 Actually, You only need one soul to Cross the barrier, but 7 are needed to break the barrier itself, So flowey could had just used the 6 human souls, Cross the barrier and do whatever he wanted to humanity, But, he could only get to the souls if he beats Asgore, but since he needed to wait for us to weaken him so he could do the finishing blow, so flowey was never able to beat Asgore
even if Flowey killer Asgore, its not like he could even take the human souls since the only time Asgore even shows them is when we fight him
maybe flowey saying "he's caused me more than my fair share of resets" with his evil face just means he looks forward to seeing us having difficulty killing sans, because he would also have had difficulties but not anymore and knows it is difficult : not scared but sadistic as always
I think it's less fear and more respecting his strength and knowing fucking with him is a bad idea. Sure he CAN be killed, but it's difficult as hell. Not to mention how observant he is. He took special care to stay out of Sans' signt when talking yo Papyrus for a reason. Someone who can read people that well would get in the way of his typical method of manipulating people for his own benefit. Not to mention the fact that he knows resets which probably messed with things back when he was in control
Sans knows, that because Flowey is determined, he can kill, and just because he can, he has to. That's probably what Sans learned after countless fights with Flowey.
Flowey's probably not trying to stay out of sans' sight when talking to Pap specifically. But out of everybody's sight. To manipulate Pap better
@@doritos4956 Fair enough but I do feel like avoiding the guy who can read him like a book when trying to manipulate his brother is especially important
Im think its more to the fact no want sans see him its this dont know he its the guy made the restes, uts the reason why thing frisk made resets after, becuase no know flowey exist
@@doritos4956 No, he probably is specifically avoiding Sans to at least some degree. Taking his own advice. Trying to make sure Sans doesn't learn anything about him (which he warns u about not letting Sans do), by avoiding him. He also doesn't want Paps to invite Paps.
He could be avoiding the others too. But I think he is taking extra care to try to avoid Sans too.
5:47 this doesn't make this statement fall flat at all, those two truths can coexist. Flowey killed everyone which caused him to fight sans which inturn caused him his "fair share of resets".
Exactly it seems like they are trying so hard to make it seem like sans didn't kill flowy
When you consider that Flowey did genocide runs before us the player, it all makes sense. Sans fought a LV 19 Flowey and the only reason he hasn't gotten his hands on the souls, became a god and took over the world or something is because unlike with us, Sans managed to make Flowey quit, he broke his will to continue because he wasn't as determined as a human and retreated to the Ruins... where we eventually falled down.
That's my theory
@@Pygargue00fr And it's correct.
this guy did NOT read the photo shop flowey dialogue about asgore
Basically I think thats what was always implied flowey couldnt get past sans. He never got to LV20.
At some point he decides to let the timeline progress without doing anything or interacting with anyone and then the last kid fell down and immediatly stripped his control over the timeline and thats when the game esentially begins
@@Pygargue00frWell, Actually 🤓
Flowey unable to take the souls because of Asgore, even after killing Asgore, he doesn't let the souls get stolen
My theory is that when flowey was "killing everyone" aka his "no mercy run" he stumbled upon sans. He got killed so many times beacuse he cant jump like us cuz... he is a flower he doesn't have legs making the fight against him 1000x worse and hard. And this happened so many times. He said he tried everything this world has to offer which means he tried to kill sans last, middle, last, secretly, public, secretly, straight forward etc. but most of the time sans dodged beacuse he has the ability and as we can see he is the only one has that ability in underground. Not even asgore and undyne doesn't have that ability which is even more frustrating for flowey and making sans especially harder out of every monster. He couldn't use the friendliness pellets circle beacuse sans can teleport which is even more bad for flowey. In short sans was a really frustrating and hard enemy for flowey in lots of maybe infinite amount of timelines which ended up killing flowey infinite amount of time too. And that led to flowey just really disliking sans and avoiding him. I can't say hate him though cuz flowey doesn't have feeling but he can have opinions like finding papyrus as a good pal and saying we should hang out with him. So in conclusion i think flowey just really really dislikes sans
@@Alperen0064 I think that's a good theory fam. Possibly Flowey also was the reason why Sans is so lazy, because Flowey had determination and he did *a lot* of resets. So no matter what Sans does, it will all gonna be reset. Other characters wont suspect that something changed unlike Sans.
asgore dodged undyne's attacks while he was training her. he doesn't dodge in the fight against you, presumably for the same reason he destroyed the mercy button. he doesn't think he deserves mercy
flowey said he couldnt get past asgore
@@EEE.654 we don't know anything about monster to monster fight mechanics though. Was it like deltarune overworld fight(mostly used by lancer on chapter 1)? Turn based bullet dodging fight? Classic rpg type just attacking and blocking type? It might be everything and we cant know beacuse we play as a human not a monster. In deltarune we saw how susie dodges lancers attacks on chapter 1. It was a bullet hell for susie but not lancer. Maybe asgore knew how to dodge bullet hell type of attacks like susie did but not human attacks with [Fight] button like lancer didn't. Like we don't even aim and they get hit, even a froggit can escape that but don't beacuse its probably different for them. Also this might be the reason why asgore cant dodge our attack nor undyne can even though asgore was her teacher. They both cant beacuse they dont know how to dodge human attacks also supported by there being no human to be trained by. You cant know how to dodge human attacks when there is no human around to learn from. I think sans can dodge beacuse of his teleportation magic. Like he can dodge a bullet from empty gun like isn't that crazy? In short i think its different for everyone(monsters, humans, darkners, "everyone") and we cant really know what and how is it
P.S to be more clear
I always imagined undertale fights as this. There is a dodger team: they can do 4 things(maybe less or more depending on situation or game). Attack, Act, Item or Mercy. And they are supposed to dodge attack from the other team which i will explain soon
We play as this.
And there is attacker team:
They are monsters and most darkners. They mostly do 2 things: Act(talk) and attack. But some speacial ones like flowey can save, flee, load, heal, dodge in asriel form or papyrus and undyne(in date) literally spares YOU etc. But i'm not counting those i'm speaking general.
In short they prepare an attack and the dodgers have to dodge and make a reponse with their 4 ways. Y'know literally undertale mechanics. But interesting is that they cant dodge. They just "take the hit". Like we don't even aim even a froggit could dodge those but they dont have the option to... But the good side is they can damage dodgers multiple times while dodgers can attack once on every turn. So its balanced for everyone and i always accepted those mechanic. One attacks other dodges and makes reponses and this loops
But what is interesting is that what would happen if 2 "attackers"(monsters and some darkners) got in a fight? Yeah. Would they always dodge? Would that work? Thats like plugging an usb hub to another usb hub...
But we've seen someone do that to other monsters in undertale. Toriel.
Toriel attacked flowey and asgore(yeet!)
I think it was an overworld fight. We were able to see it and it had effects on characters location. Normally fight wouldn't move the characters but it did with flowey and asgore. Which makes things really complicated.
And as i said we've seen this on deltarune too. Lancer attacked susie and it was a classic undertale turn based fight. Maybe asgore taught undyne that?
This is literally a question with no geniune answer...
@@Alperen0064 i was just reminding you about how asgore can dodge, damn
Flowey saying that he did EVERYTHING is hyperbole, he directly states that he has never and could never get past Asgore no matter what he tried. He reiterated that in the Geno route, where he says that he was never able to get to the SOULs. Flowey doing "everything" is meant to relate to a completionest, who's seen every line of dialogue a hundred times and beaten every possible challenge. Flowey did everything that was available to him, but there were some things that he was physically incapable of because of his position as a weak little flower monster. We're a human with a powerful SOUL, Flowey is a delicate flower with no SOUL whatsoever. There's a big difference there, sure he has magic but even that is quite weak due to him possessing a physical body not the magical body that a monster normally has. He's rooted into the ground making movement slow and difficult, and he probably even needs to hang around the small openings to the surface otherwise he'd start withering due to lack of sun. Point is, he's extremely weak and so his options are way more limited. Sure he could get sneak attacks or do underhanded tactics to get what he wanted, but at the end of the day he's still just a flower.
On the Pacifist route, Asgore was the roadblock because he refused to let Flowey see the SOULs and was too strong for him to beat. If he grinded EXP to try and become strong enough to beat Asgore, then Sans would step in and be the roadblock. It was physically impossible for Flowey to get past them, and eventually he gave up letting time move on and hoping something new would happen. Flowey isn't "afraid" of Sans, he just hates him for standing in his way and wants him dead. He has no real reason to fear anything since death is an inconvenience at worst, but he can still get frustrated and angry at bashing his head against this wall over and over without making any progress. It's not too different to us giving up against Sans, except imagine our soul is moving at 50% speed and we're locked to 10 health or w/e. That's what Flowey is dealing with.
Sans and Flowey have interacted a lot before, so both are wary of each other, but wary to the point of fear? Nah. Just wary to the point they consider each other a Thorn
This
Personally I do think Flowey somewhat fears Sans, just not as much as Frisk to the point where he's shitting himself.
Think of it like he fears him more because he can be a mild threat, and not like how Frisk has total control over the timeline.
@@ukstationaudits8679 thats fair
@@Undertalenjoyer thats fair lol thx for responding
That's probably more annoyance than fear then. And at this point, sans wouldn't be a threat at all to Flowey. Aside from being an obstacle in manipulating Papyrus
@@doritos4956 i sorta agree on this aswell! Could be a small mix of both
@@doritos4956 true
A very good video! Well made! People really do ignore that fact that Flowey killed EVERYONE once. The only reason he wasn't all powerful when we fell, is because Asgore wouldn't show him where the souls were. He beat him, sans, undyne, everyone, but didn't know where those souls were. It was thanks to us he found them.
Ty fam I appreciate it
He did have the human souls though, if he didn't, he wouldn't be able to break through Sans Ultra Instinct or even dent Papyrus's Godly Pressure.
I don't think anyone could be scared of sans.
What is flowey up to, that sans might guess what kind of powers he has, and what scares flowey, that someone would know about resets.
@@Ellesiumss i think Flowey just needed more tries to get through him
Yup 👍
I never saw Flowey as someone afraid of sans, he, just like the player found sans to be the hardest character in the game, not that he he couldn't beat sans, he probably did, but it's clear that Flowey has disliking towards sans mainly because of the fight with him but the bad puns might also be a reason why he tends to call sans "smiley trashbag." I also find it interesting that Flowey doesn't seem to give out thoughts to Alphys despite being the person that him brought him life.
Also nice Save Goatbro gameplay in the background.
@@InternetFanatic good theory fam and thx I couldnt think of better background back then. Now I think regular Undertale gameplay with room transitions is better and more colorful than fangames cause they're mainly black and dark, making the video and retention boring.
I saw a theory that sans is what made flowey invent his unavoidable pellet circles
That's honestly probably true
And Sans proceeds to befriend his mother in another timeline..
It’s the same as Frisk’s genocide runs, they still kill everyone in the end including Sans, but not before having spent their fair share of resets on him having a bad time… Though you could also argue that Flowey was never able to make it past Sans because he never got to reach the absolute like Frisk did, so by “everyone”, he could’ve also meant “basically everyone”, but not “literally everyone”
fair
I wonder what Flowey thinks about Annoying dog and his room or the shrine. If he sees everything the world has to offer, then he must know something about Toby, right?
TRUE
Flowey absolutely couldnt have done infinite resets. Infinite is a number that is constantly growing and is always larger(not counting higher infinities here)
If flowey were to do "infinite" resets then Frisk or the other fallen humans wouldn't have fallen. Flowey eventually gets bored and allows the world to go on eventually leading to when Frisk fell and thus overriding his ability to reset. This would make the number of reseys flowey has done *finite* .
Because Flowey only did so many resets to see every outcome in the underground, but he didnt do everything as he was unable to get to the souls and reach the surface. Which means he didnt achieve *every* possibility. And that also is more proof that he didnt reset infinite of times as he wouldve eventually found the souls as no matter how many tries it'd take he technically has infinite tries.
If Flowey actually reset infinite times. He would still be reseting as if he ever stopped it would make the number of resets he did finite. So that means he would never stop. Meaning Frisk would never have fallen. The fact that flowey isn't reseting is proof. And also that there is only a finite amount of things he could do before getting bored. A large number of things but a finite amount of things nonetheless.
Tho personally I think Flowey is somewhat scared of sans but hates him more. Mainly since. You and I. We had the luxury of tutorials, taking breaks, watching videos, or just stalling in the judgement hall since the fight won't start until we walk forward and meet Sans in the hall. In Floweys perspective he has none of that and in the game when you die you aren't spawned into a "Reset" and "Continue" button menu like the fanon wants to portray. You're automatically spawned back in the hall or wherever you died. And since Fĺowey isn't a human if flowey tries to take a break Sans will get impatient and dunk on him rather than waiting and judging him and Flowey makes more expressios to judge what happened. Anywhere Flowey can appear using his ability to dig into the ground will be rendered null by sans just blipping him back into position like he does to us at the end of the fight. Or just teleporting where he goes. But I do think Flowey did eventually kill sans. Many people irl did by simply trying over and over again and they probably had things to do in the real world. Flowey literally has nothing better to do so eventually he would kill sans just like us. And he can load his save file and try again until he does a no hit run merg style. And seeing how he wanted to try every possibility in the world he'd absolutely try that.
* bro who is this flower smh
sad how you didn't mention, asriel copied some of sans behaviours in his boss fight, like the shrug headshake, the gaster blaster and the wink
flowey isn't scared of sans, he just sees him as the toughest obsacle, his personal final boss and those elements are why we know for a fact flowey fought sans, and also no your explanation on how flowey reset an infinite amount of time is illogic, even if he changed timelines entirely thus making time in previous timeline irrelevant it still doesn't make him able to reach infinity on the contrary it makes his resets Null and irrelevant as if he never did them according to relativity
Saying Asriel copied Sans with his behavior would be a really bold statement and not necesarily true.
Another thing about RESETS. If you spent totally 0 time on an action, you're not losing time and you can preform LOTS of them. Its the same thing you divide 1 by a fraction. Like this 1/0,1 = 10, 1/0,01 = 100, 1/0,001 = 1000, so you see the closer you are to 0 the more and more you get the bigger numbers and thus closer to infinity.
@@Undertalenjoyer Saying asriel copied sans isn't a bold statement, and is on the contrary pretty logic, asriel literally has the exact same poses throughout the fight and the hyper goner is clearly a gaster blaster, we know asriel tried every pacifist route before deciding to go genocide (toby doesn't leave this kind of details randomly) and on a narrative point of view it makes no sense to put it here if that's not the case, sans isn't the type to attack you on spot despite what he said to you in the restaurant, yes he made a promise but before fighting you he sometimes explains how he would have hoped to be friends with you, considering all murders flowey commited, karma magic should be really affective against him, i don't think flowey tells you to stay away from sans without having fought him prior because i don't see a world in which flowey decide to kill everyone and sans just decided to stay on the sidelines.
When you kill Papyrus, Sans observes you from afar expecting You would turn around and reconsider your choices, flowey certainly didn't do that so flowey 100% fought sans, and saying flowey has no emotions at all is wrong, he's pissed when you try to spare him annoyed when you kill yourself in a loop when he's in his photoshop flowey form, he is scared at the end of genocide knowing you would 100% kill him, in the echo flowers you can hear him too, he sounds desperate, he also seems to resent alphys, flowey isn't emotionless at all, he just feels very little emotions, in reality it's more that he has no morality.
Also not losing time doesn't make flowey able to perform an infinity of resets, if asriel performs a reset and changes timelines, even if coming back in time through a save that doesn't change the number of resets he performed, there's no need to divide because he came back in time himself, it's not the timeline that reset on it own, even if you were to come back in time repeatedely you wouldn't be able to perform an action an infinite amount of time, except if this action creates an infinite amount of timelines but let's be honest, it probably creates a new timeline per reset.
@@AbyssalBlue24 If you think that showing or expressing similar body language is considered "copying" then that means everyone is technically copying from each other. I wouldnt agree that "Hyper Goner" is similar to Gaster blaster. Like its a skull, but has a completely different mechanic. Hyper Goner works like a vacuum, and Gaster blaster as a beam of light. Asriel Dreemurr didnt copy Sans, since there is nothing to copy. You cant just copy body language. you show it according to the character or situation, regardless if someone does similar gestures and mimics.
About resetting and timelines, i can say that in the main menu where you choose either continue or reset, the time doesnt pass there. Main menu is like exclusive type of place to Determination users, literally a "power to play God", and making the user not really bound to time. The user can just load to the last save file, and be before something even happened previously, allowing to make literally infinite attempts, as many as they like. Thats why Sans says "You're very determined huh? You dont do this because you "can", but you "have to".
Its Meaning that no matter how hard the obstacle is, sooner or later you'll get through it.
@@AbyssalBlue24the hyper goner ISNT a gaster blaster 😭 it’s quite obvious in the design. Jsut because they both are somewhat skulls doesn’t necessarily prove that
@@frostscythe910 when i say it's a gaster blaster i'm not saying it's literally a gaster blaster, just that it's based on a gaster blaster
I agree on Flowey not fearing Sans, or at least not anymore. Because he probably felt fear, maybe not toward Sans however, or not for long, since he knew he could reset. As for the Grillby's Sans dialogue, I'm pretty sure that he actually doesn't know about Flowey, simply because Flowey never interacted with Sans in this timeline.
Sans does know about Flowey to at least some extent in the current timeline of the game. Talking Flower is in yellow, and echo flower is in blue (Sans shows he will mess with font color). Showing Sans is talking about different things.
@Dragon_Aoi Well I don't know. Sans spoke about stop signs with like three different font colors. That means he doesn't completely care about that.
Now that I think of it, he might have done the stop sign trick knowing it was funny, and maybe he did speak about talking flowers in yellow knowing what it could mean...
@@wartkras I mean yeah, the font color thing with stop signs was him purposely messing with wordplay, colors, and the font colors to mess with you. He was also trying to help you, but also, help you in the most confusing way too. Because he was also messing with you. This point only goes to further show, that font color can be quite deliberate with Sans. And in Grillby's well, I already said it, so I am not saying it again.
Honestly, sans with his knowledge could be a near infinite wellspring of entertainment for flowey.
But Flowey knows Sans will almost never ACT on this information cause Sans knows that it would be meaningless.
This is headcanony, but I would assume that a lot of his resets outside of fighting him were just trying to get him to break character. Sans is clearly a interesting character but we really don't know all to much about him and that probably frustrated the hell out of flowey that no matter how many attempts, he could never truly uncover who sans really is.
I mean, even we as Frisk still don't know what the hell is truly up with sans secret room. Just theories.
Very underrated. Love this concept.
Ngl I like thinking about the fact Flowey is strong asf even without the souls
He’s a PLANT that can grow as much as he wants, he has the entire EARTH on his side
Barrier.
I’ve been into Undertale since I was a little kid and after enough looking around in the fandom I started to get a little annoyed seeing sans portrayed as an all seeing god! I swear all comics have him remember our resets and they always make him… depressed? They always make him ALMOST die then they make him refuse to get help and, well you get the point. I’m just saying we should give other Undertale characters a chance to shine in the Undertale fandom!!!
Exactly thats true. Sans is overrated.
I mean, Undyne the Undying literally acknowledges the players in her genocide fight and no one pays attention to this
Of course Snas ain't an all-seeing god, he's just a lazy skelton monster that that's aware of the fourth wall and bends the physics around himself occasionally (to a degree).
@@Undertalenjoyerhe may be overrated but he is still an amazing character
@@duck7441 I know, Sans is overrated by fandom but is a good character in general
Conclusion that Sans are just too hard to kill whenever Flowery attempt to
0:43 One Piece
@@CrimsomGloryXD Fr
IS REAL
Goda
5:23 You got it slightly wrong + you're confusing people
Before Reset:
•
|--------------|
After Reset:
•
|--------------|
|--|
Everything in this video makes me feel like flowey was a player before but flowey got bored when they did everything
The reason he probably doesnt want you to interact with sans is because you could bring up things about flowey and soul would just give him a bad time or he probably doesn't want you to do a pacifist
TLDW
Flowey isn't afraid of sans, he just cant beat him so he's annoyed by him
I like to imagine Flowey is envious of Sans's ability to be terrifying, Flowey's evil face kind of looking similar to sans, it would work with the fact that Flowey imitates people's faces
I imagine flowey and sans seeing each other, thinking “that bitch” and then going on with their day.
FR that is too damn accurate 🤣🤣
My personal theory has always been Flowey has never killed Sans. He never finished a Genocide Run because Sans always beat him in the Judgment Hall. Forcing him to Rage-Quit.
Remember, if it werent for Chara's growing strength dealing the final blow, Frisk wouldnt have killed Sans either.
At the end of the Geno run we have enough power to destroy everything. Thats the only reason why Sans interfears. Given the world is still here by the time Frisk falls down, I gather Flowey never got to that point.
He never killed everyone, like he says he did. I think he only says that because he has ESSENTIALLY killed everyone bar Sans.
Sans probably thinks the Echo Flowers are talking to Papyrus because Sans probably thinks Flowey is a joke. Reminds me of the "You haven't beaten this guy yet" line.
@@dolcethesmorse1890 I think at some point Flowey would get the upper hand when fighting with Sans. He had plenty of time after all. Also it doesnt neccesarily mean that Flowey couldn't do the same as Chara. If we assume that fights between Flowey and Sans had the same mechanics, as between Frisk and Sans, then Flowey *technically* could create his ring of friendliness pellets, making his attack unavoidable thus winning against Sans.
@@Undertalenjoyer Uh huh...
A hunka ton of speculation.
@Undertalenjoyer The thing is tho, Sans V Frisk is different than Sans V Flowey. Flowey isn't being haunted by a spirit, let alone a spirit strong enough to physically attack someone the way Chara does. Also not only could Sans's teleport completely negate a ring of Friendliness Pellets but he has been shown to block them with bones before.
Also while Flowey may have unlimited attempts, he does not have unlimited patience in the way Frisk does.
Without the surprise attack of Chara, then Frisk and Flowey would both be unable to get an upper hand on the comedian
Sans is both an unstoppable force and an immovable object, only ever taken down by the power of the 6 souls or a surprise attack from Chara. And that's why Flowey hates him so much.
At least that's my opinion
@@dolcethesmorse1890 @dolcethesmorse1890 Flowey doesnt need a spirit. He can use multiple attacks in one turn.
Sans maybe could teleport but he never blocks Flowey's friendliness pellets. That was Papyrus's bone. And even in PH2 Asriel fight Sans never attacks too. Only Papyrus.
Flowey can attack with multiple bullets in one turn which would quite literally tell already that every turn for Sans would be deadly.
"Sans is an unstoppable force and an immovable object".... thats glazing. He is neither an unstoppable force on immovable object if he can be defeated. And remember. Sans may have been different before. He still may have 1 HP back then because he didnt sleep much. The resets completely made doing anything for him utterly useless. And as I think of it right now. Maybe Flowey hates Sans because he remembers. I mean not remembers but has some sort of deja vu after resetting.
@@Undertalenjoyer Sans can use shortcuts though, he can take a shortcut away from those pellets
(this is assuming sans would ever fight flowey, which I doubt, he probably wouldnt care if he was killed or not)
flower feels fear, but it's obvious that he never felt any from sans. Flowey when at the end of a genocide route says things like "what is this feeling" "I'm shaking" which is pretty obviously fear, in case you didn't know... although, his lack of experience with fear shows that his encounters with sans never felt true fear.
I don’t think he’s scared, moreso just find him annoying
Side Note: Being Soulless takes away your compassion, not your emotion
@@KrisCrossssss yea flowey still can develop some sort of empathy. For example for Toriel who he claims "forgets to drink, eat and even sleep", and she always wakes up to a glass water filled near to the brim. Dialogues and information you can find in the alarm clock dialogues for 5th anniversary of Undertale.
Isn't he afraid of the human at the end of the no mercy run?
@@GoodOlJenkinsYT yes, thats FEAR, not compassion
@@KrisCrossssss whoops, must have misread your comment
Flowey can't have reset "infinite" times. Infinity isn't something you can get to eventually like a number, it's something that can't possibly be reached. No matter how many times Flowey may have reset, there will always be a "next highest number" that comes beforehand. It's obvious that Clamgirl was speaking metaphorically when she said "This world has infinite possibilities."
I think it’s more like ‘this guy can rock the hell out of me, killing him isn’t worth the trouble,” judging by how he literally tells us to NOT let him know ‘anything’ and the fact him killing.. EVERYONE is a little vague, maybe he did? Maybe he didn’t, he may have learned his lesson to not screw with sans’.
6:40 There's something you're missing here, it may be important, it might not, but it's worth mentioning.
Papyrus still *loves* puns, in fact, he makes over twice as many as sans does (6:14). It's mostly sans using his puns as... [I don't know if there's a word for it... A cover-up?] for his laziness. For example (not the exact words from the cutscene but you know what I'm on about).
"YOU'VE GOTTEN NO WORK DONE TODAY!
Hey, calm down. I've done a *ton* of work. A *skele-ton.* "
This is the scene that makes most people think Papyrus hates puns, because he is mad at sans [for his laziness], and sans makes 3 of his puns. He even ends the cutscene by saying (again, paraphrasing) "ABOUT YOUR WORK. PUT A LITTLE MORE...
*BACKBONE* INTO IT! NYEH HEH HEH HEH!".
So Flowey not liking sans just because he makes bad puns sometimes would be *terrible* writing when Papyrus is his "most fun plaything". It's sans' laziness, and knowledge of timelines resetting *_[NOT AU's, THAT'S ALPHYS._*_ I just needed to say that]_ (Why do anything if it's all going to reset anyway, might as well have fun with it) We can tell from High LV Neutral routes he won't do anything unless he absolutely has to (Fight is ONLY on Geno route, it's an attempt to make you give up out of frustration and either reset or leave the world alone).
Flowey does everything he can because he can, and was even willing to kill everything out of curiosity. Sans only does everything he HAS to and tries to make things fun because it's all meaningless anyway. They're completely different mindsets. That could be why Flowey doesn't like him. Their personalities conflict plus sans being more aware of everything he's done. *Not enough to make him reset, though. That's why most people think Flowey would be scared of him.* The other reason people think it is because of sans' ability to deal *Mother-inspired poison damage* based on how evil a person is.
With Flowey explaining how he never managed to take out Asgore, after many resets deciding to go area to area wiping out everyone, it makes sense he would believe someone as lazy and weak as sans (1 ATK, 1 DEF, presumably 32 HP since Papyrus is 20x stronger and has 640 hp) 'wouldn't be worth the EXP for the time taken' [I can't explain why, I can only compare it to fighting Jerry in every encounter on a Geno route] and deciding just to take him out later, once he becomes God. He leaves sans behind, and sans decides later to fight him (possibly having the same expectations as what would happen in the Player's Geno route). Flowey resets because *Flowey loses. Goes back to his save. Loses again. Reload. Repeat.* (No soul means can't dodge attacks or something, since you dodge with the soul. I'm not Toby though), getting stuck in the losing loops multiple times.
This is the best explanation I have for why most of the fanbase believe Flowey is scared of sans.
[Why did I write twelve paragraphs for "Oh actually Papyrus likes Puns, he was just mad at sans then. Sans uses a variety of jokes, mainly pranks. Or non-pun jokes."? Nobody knows.]
Just saying, but it's implied both Sans Alphys work together, so Sans knowing about Alternative Universes is likely, if no hinted at with the whole "Don't tell the other Sanses".
Still, everything else is pretty accurate. Besides the whole "Papyrus makes over twice the amount of Puns sans makes", which... I've got no idea where you got that from.
@@tiarahamlin6351By counting them. A good number of Papyrus phone calls contain puns and other wordplay (especially in Hotland.) Adding all of them together does show Papyrus makes around twice as many puns as Sans.
@@CR1MSONACE its not Flowey hating puns in general, its more about hearing them from someone he genuinely dislikes. He obviously likes Papyrus, so he doesn't mind them.
@@tiarahamlin6351 I think "other sans-es" means sans-es from other timelines, not AU's
@@freeformed1232 Wordplay is different from Puns, and although Puns are a form of Wordplay, wordplay as a whole is much more than puns.
Concerning specifically puns, Papyrus makes 20 puns in-game, while Sans makes 17 puns.
This is without counting other canon material, like the Papyrus interviews, Deltarune, Sans literally playing the TROMBONE, or whenever Sans is mentioned to having made puns in the past, like Papyrus talking about the troll who sends him puns in a goofy font.
Scared? No.
Threatened? Most definitely.
It's pretty funny when one realizes that flowey would realistically beat Sans in a fight if he were to have the six souls (Glitchtale was just glaze tbh)
Fr
Flowey can feel emotions. He is clearly annoyed with you when you dodge his bullets at the beginning, and anger is an emotion.
It could be possible since the same way how Flowey fears us now he fears Sans too considering he can't come. Haven't played undertale for a while now so correct me if I'm wrong.
Technically, Flowey can feel fear only if someone has a high LV and has a strong desire to kill. Flowey has still some "essence" left from Asriel, and Asriel is a monster, which could explain why he exhibits such feelings, similarly to monsters. It doesn't work with Sans though as Sans doesn't have either determination or intent to kill. Only when neccessary. Sans is more harmless than regular monsters to be honest.
I always believed that Flowey's "scary face" actually came from Sans, especially knowing he has a gimmick of copying monster faces. Flowey might not be outright terrified of him, but he's definitely intimidated to some degree.
papyrus likes sans's pun, but they're just not appropriated to the situation
Good point but i still dont think he can kill sand in a single try thus being careful around him even more this time since he can be killed
wow there was actually some info i missed on flowey, this is pretty shocking as a flowey fan
The fact that flowey did a genocide run means that maybe had to fight sans and sans could use the Karmic Retribution but thats just my theory
I see many people say Flowey never got past Asgore, He did, He says without your help He NEVER could have gotten past Him, The main reason behind that is He doesn't have the ability to save and load anymore so He wouldn't risk a fight with His life on the line with Asgore, The only thing He never managed to do was absorb the souls because Asgore wouldn't show It to Flowey.
seems like flowey shows some emotion in the endings anyway, it could be a genuine warning but point taken, flowey probably wasnt personally afraid
I dont think flowey is scared i think he just finds sans anoying
This is giving me the feeling that without resets sans is stronger than flowey tbh...but with resets sure flowey beats him i guess
Flowey having some trouble with sans and flowey killing every monster is not contredictory, also while flowey has no soul souless creatures in undertale can still feel emotions like joy irritation and of course fear, flowey in the no mercy route just wasnt used to that feeling due to the fact that he really had nothing to fear before as it could all be reset
Someone should make a undertale fan game where you play as flowey
@@TheTaintedOne ong
He’s not scared, he just knows what sans is capable of.
@@TheCheeseManFaced bad time?
The way i see it, while Flowey did of course manage to kill and befriend Sans, it was much harder to do than with any other character just because of how much more aware Sans is. it's much more difficult for someone like Flowey to fool Sans into trusting him and becoming friends, and it's obviosly a huge pain in the ass to fight him. Also for all we know, he could've been dealing with a Sans that hasn't entirely given up on the world and become nihilistic yet, a Sans that cared more and would maybe even go out of his way to spoil Flowey's plans when he was messing with the world. Point is, i think Sans was just a huge pain in the ass for Flowey and he fucked him up in many ways on a bunch of different runs
Flowey can kill Sans in one timeline then everyone else. While losing to Sans in every other timeline. These things are not mutually exclusive.
"Flowey, i know what you did"
@@BlackSkull1984 FR
flower, I remember you're genocides...
Obviously, If sans catched flowey talking to papyrus he'd kill it instantly.
@@MalalikoGaming-ph4ve Flowey could just warp into yhe ground then
@@Undertalenjoyer Sans can teleport.
@@MalalikoGaming-ph4ve yeah but still Flowey doesnt have 92 hp or smth. He has much more (his body tanked multiple countless slashes at the end of genocide) i think sans is too lazy to even attack Flowey tho. If he doesnt attack player for killing papyrus then he wouldnt attack flowey either.
@@Undertalenjoyer Nope! Flowey has 650 HP
@@orrorsaness5942 how so?
That's why We Sans As A
The Judge
I'm copying a comment I made on Reddit a while ago, because I think it adds to this discussion:
"If I have ONE piece of advice for you. DON'T let [Sans] find out ANYTHING about you. He'll... well... Let's just say. He's caused me more than my fair share of resets. Stay away from that guy."
During the dinner with Sans he says that the only reason the human wasn't dead upon walking out of the Ruins was because of his promise to Toriel. And he knows we can mess with the timeline. Flowey, of course, was not so fortunate enough to get a promise like that.
In this instance, I don't think Flowey is talking about Sans during one of his "kill everyone" runs specifically. He's just talking about Sans finding out about his control over the timeline and then just fucking dunking him right there and then - regardless of what he was doing.
That being said, Sans probably did kick Flowey's ass a few times in some of those "kill everyone" runs solely because a random flower showing up out of nowhere and killing people probably tipped Sans off that he was the anomoly. But I think Flowey's fight with Sans was a lot different than our fight with Sans. Sans fights us because the reports he and Alphys(?) had were (correctly) predicting the literal end of time. He had to give it his all to save everyone from being erased.
Flowey didn't have the capacity to end the world and the reports likely would predict that the world would eventually reset anyway. Now, Sans probably didn't like that Flowey was going around killing everyone and he wanted the anomaly dealt with, but the stakes ultimately weren't the same as they were with us.
I think he beaten sans at least once. or else he wouldn't been bored from killing everyone why he would be if there very hard boss? (He sees world as a game like how gamer can be angry because of it being hard)
People say flowey never killed asgore but i am not sure about that why?. He says he never got to asgore to show souls to him because asgore clearly suspected him so it didn't mattered if asgore died or not.
You really did a number on that old fool. Without you, I'd never get past him. But now with your help, HE'S DEAD.
@@markopujic660
Past him as in past the obstacle of getting the souls from him.
I mean many people give up in the game when the opponent is too tough.
@@F3lipe-u8x if he give up he would be dead. Literally. Because if you give up you will not be able to restart after death.
Giving up is just death sentence for flowey in a figth
@@markopujic660 and than he talks about how he killed asgore.
Think about it like that :
Flowey can easily capture asgore (pacifist ending and probably kill him while he is just) he just captured him only thing killing asgore is useless if he doesn't show souls. And we see flowey can absorb monsters souls too.
the thing about this and the reason i think this is a little wonky is because flowey saying he killed everyone could only imply everyone he could...sadly wording is a little B when it comes to this things
Who's your favourite Undertale character? Mine is Flowey
Asriel Dreemurr
@@UndertalenjoyerAsriel Dreemurr is still flowey but better
@@minhduytran6379 HELL YEA🦅🦅🦅
MINE IS FLOWEY TOO!!
in a nutshell the answer is.. no bec. before the asriel fight he held sans with no hesitation using his branches
true, although Flowey had a huge advantage already with 6 souls, which wasn't really a raw example of Flowey. That's why I hesitated to put it in there.
Flowey CAN feel emotion. If Flowey was truly empty, then how can he have felt something when killing? How did he feel fear in the Genocide route? Flowey had tears in the Genocide route. You can even see the sadness on his face when Frisk spares him after the Omega Flowey fight.
A more accurate description is that when his Soul was removed, he was DEPRESSED, making it harder to feel love or empathy, not that he was completely empty.
The “infinite possibilities” statement is hyperbolic.
No, it wouldn’t just be in affect for when you don’t reset. That would still imply that Flowey went through an infinite amount of events. Basically, he would still be doing them by the time Frisk comes. Even if time resets, that’s still impossible.
True! though the cases where he shows emotions are not really frequent for him. In genocide, Frisk had LV 19 and Flowey were scared of them, he even was confused about "shaking". Flowey is not a monster but is mainly brought to life due to Asriel's dust and determination, that's why he could feel something like that. Monsters tend to be scared, and weakened when someone is strong and with strong desire to kill and to hurt. And in Neutral, it's kinda other type of feeling. And in this case it could be like "love" or something I guess. Even he doesn't understand these feelings, as he says.
@@Undertalenjoyer
I would best describe it as “Someone who has emotion, but not very much, and when he does, he struggles to understand it.”
@@JacobBarton721 that's actually fair fam. good explanation 👍
He doesn’t have infinite resets, or you wouldn’t see him. I agree with the rest, however
I think I could've worded it better, although maybe countless instead of infinite
@@Undertalenjoyer yea
Well, the phrase about “killed everyone” just seems like a simplification
Still, he would physically not be able to kill Amolgam, he himself mentioned that he could never defeat Asgore, it is unlikely that he fought with Gersan
So, in theory, Sans can also be the one whom Flowey did not pass or passes but with difficulty
As for me, this is what he meant when he spoke about Sansa and insulted him. Still, I think at the Genocide from Flowery Sans he was given a serious battle, and this bothered Flowery or annoyed him more than normal, hence the hostility
+ Sans is smart, so I think Flowey is still dissatisfied with the fact that Sans is very difficult to push around and artificially create some kind of unusual scenario
In my theory, Flowey only defeated Sans in full power during... odd circumstances (I say odd, cause W.D. Gaster gets involved)
Flowey sometimes kills Sans, like he does to Asgore and Gerson, sometimes because all 3 were holding back, and sometimes through... unconventional means (underhanded tactics, malicious pranks, etc.)
So, Flowey isn't scared of Sans. He's just really annoyed.
Yeah
I don’t think the explanation that time and his existence can be infinite simply because he can reset the clock, and therefore he has experienced infinite timelines. Yeah, it’s THEORETICALLY possible, but Flowey makes it absolutely clear that he’s simply got bored of continuing. He could be more likened to the common explanation of the previous 6 humans who just gave up their soul due to not being able to make it past Asgore (whether you disagree with that theory or not doesn’t change that it could apply to Flowey too). Somebody wouldn’t just be bored if they experienced infinite timelines, they’d practically be brain dead from information overload.
Plus, let’s not forget that Flowey can’t override our save file except in the neutral and pacifist endings, which he doesn’t even utilize fully as we keep access to those files after each respective ending. What does that mean? Flowey couldn’t have possibly experienced infinite possible realities, as the only period of time he was able to use his resets was the finite duration of time between becoming alive, and Frisk arriving underground. He also know there can’t really be infinite timelines within that period of time, as there are finite positions in 3D space one can be in due to Planck length, but for a simpler example, consider the following;
Flowey goes to the ice cream shop and is offered either chocolate or vanilla. He can choose one of these two possibilities, but he could also ask for taco flavoured ice cream. Well, they’ll say they don’t have it, so Flowey can just travel back in time and introduce taco ice cream to their menu by some manipulation so he can order it later. But, what if Flowey wanted to exist in a timeline where he had no input on whether or not taco flavour ice cream was ever invented (so he stays entirely absent from all the moments leading up to the moment he chooses to get ice cream), but STILL be able to order it later on? Well, he can’t. I mean, he can ASK for it, but there is no way the timeline can exist where the ice cream isn’t available but they serve it to Flowey anyway. This means all possible decisions that CAN exist depend entirely on the previous decisions made, and so every decision must result in less possible decisions being possible to make in the future, which is sort of like how the factorial function can be used in real world problems.
You may also say “well he could ask for taco flavoured ice cream, but he could ALSO ask for HDJEINSBAUSH flavoured yogurt and then stab the shopkeeper instead”, and sure, but when every syllable you can speak takes a non-zero amount of time to say, and Flowey is limited by the amount of time between becoming alive and Frisk’s arrival, there must also be finite things Flowey can physically say aloud.
Simply put, Flowey did not experience infinite time because he existed within the finite rules of his universe prior to Frisk arriving.
So what does Clam Girl refer to then? Well it seems very plausible that the goners and Gaster exist in a sort of dimension outside the space and time that makes up the Undertale universe. They aren’t physically limited by the same rules as Flowey who exists within finite time in finite space.
Consider Deltarune how it has dark worlds, the light world, the program that makes up the game, the computer that runs that program, and the real world. Darkners are limited to the physical reality of their own dark world, lightners cannot venture outside the light world (without highly specific external circumstances), there seems to be a character trapped in the code of the game, and supposedly Gaster is capable of interacting with our world via Toby Fox’s Twitter.
They all have layers, and their limits are defined by the limits of their layer, so as far as a character trapped within the confines of the game is concerned, a being who can see more alternate realities than the sum of all possible actions that can be done in the game, must be capable of seeing “infinite” realities, as they are all physically unobtainable by someone trapped in the game.
So no; what Flowey experienced wasn’t infinitude, it was getting bored after experiencing all the finite realities he cared to explore.
i personally dont think flowey could beat sans if the battle was using the same attack system used during the player's battles. As in the genocide route his infamous special attack (staying on his turn indefinitely) would probably just bore flowey into a reset, and even if it didn't sans is still able to dodge the player's attack after the player cheats by moving the battle box. Even if he used the vines from true pacifist or the pellet circle from the beginning of the game, sans would probably be able to dodge that too by reading flowey's facial expressions (like he does with how many times the player dies to him in the genocide route fight) And considering how he is warning the player about how many resets he had to do during his fight with sans (why else would sans cause him to reset so many times?), even if flowey did manage to beat him it would have taken him (as flowey himself said) more than his fair share of resets.
I like how from flowers line "sets of numbers lines of dialogue I've seen them all"
Implies that he has seen all of sans lines including the ones in genocide where he tells you how many times he has killed you
Meaning flowey must have lost seemingly infinite times.
This however creates a paradox as for flowey to have seen every line of dialogue he must have also beaten sans at more than once most likely also infinite times
Correct me if I'm wrong tho
Flowey*
He's not scared, It sounds more like he's annoyed with him.
Why tho, Flowery
I don't know about Flowey, but I am scared of Sans. He's the reason why I gave up the Genocide run. Undyne was nothing compared to him.
Couldnt bro just men mention how he manhandled Sans right before the Asriel bossfight?
@@Nostalmic true, though Flowey already had 6 human souls in his grasp at that point
Yeah.
The clear conclusion is that Flowey is like us players before we had a bad time with Sans getting killed hundreds of times just to memorize the attack pattern going back all over again but in the end ended up killing everyone including Asgore which we can't lie about it also died multiple times during pacifist run in short after memorizing everything it became boring cause it became easier and that's why Flowey hates Sans instead of fearing him
@@symonmeman8767 true
@@Undertalenjoyer I mean I can understand that much I love Sans and the character design in fact he's my most favorite because of how cool he is but in the end he's still a monster without DETERMINATION unlike Flowey and Frisk or Chara so it's only a matter of TIME and few RESETS I can't keep glacing about him and I accept that fact
bro did you really use someone saying "there are infinate possibllities" in a litteral sense
@@enchantedgoldenapple3290 yep and she is literally one of the FUN characters. I mean clamgirl outright says like she is really convinced for it to be true and second, why should she lie?
@@Undertalenjoyer "infinite possiblities as obviously an expression, taking it at face value is stupid
I just thought something....Why nobody did a fangame where we do this "Flowey runs" How different it would be from the original game?
flowery is afraid of papyrus since he is all powerfull but he's too soft which is why flowery got on his good side of course everyone is though but this is not canon
not indiot, flowey DONT feall LOVE loveless hes souless he can feel emotion
Explain this is easy: Flowey did a genocide, Sans judged him, Flowey took lots of dmg and died lots of times because of the KR he wad taking due to high LV, and adviced you because fighting Sans was probably extremely annyoing (Die and come back lots of times). Flowey's nit afraid of Sans, he just finds having to fight Sans extremely incovienient.
True. It all comes to determination. "Because you 'can', you 'have to'". And in this case its about killing and seeing what happens.
If I got "ONE PIECE" of advice
FR
wait the clam girl and rouxls have a similiar pose...
AYO TRUE
Welp, my long-ish comment going over some stuff in this video and this topic more generally is just gone now for some reason. Might try reposting it (maybe post some of the comment as replies, to make the comment less long? Like, I don't think there were any words in that YT flag and thus delete my comment, but I wouldn't know, because YT just deletes comments without giving a reason or warning really. Which is great of them - not really -) on here. Because I worked awhile on it, but I also don't just want it/them to get deleted again. So we will see. Might not re-post it/them in that case.
I'm looking at held comments and there's nothing from you specifically. UA-cam may automatically delete comments that contain links, or certain words but I have no idea what words could you use on an undertale video for it to be deleted honestly. Weird, but appreciate your comment fam.
And if Flowey killed EVERYONE that means he killed even monsters that player cann't see and in locations that player cann't be (I know that ut yellow is not cannon but you can see that underground is really huge at backgrounds)
@@gordanatoly1122 yes. I mean the player never killed evacuated monsters for example
5:27 I don't get it
It basically means that he spent no time when preforming resets, allowing him to preform infinite of them, and basically be stuck and bored in that loop of saving, loading, resetting, trying different combinations while having false hope that something would change. And nothing did.
@@Undertalenjoyer but he is a finite being, he can't do a infinite amount of anything.
if he were to do an "infinite" amount of resets he'd just be stuck endlessly doing them while everything else is basically frozen
@@Vikt-vg8nz Flowey says that determintion is "the power to reshape the world, the power to play God" is just meaning that determination allowed him to do so many. And he would be stuck, if the time passed, but it doesnt. That means he just does them in an instant. From his perspective, he does every action in order. From observers perspective it was just Flowey being from his last save and nothing in between.
@@Undertalenjoyeryou cant reach infinity. Sure, he can use his ability infinite times cause here isnt a limit to how much he can reset, but that does not mean he reached infinity, because you cant.
Sure, you can reach an insanley high number, but that number will judt keep going up.
Reaching infinity would imply it has an end, which would be contradictory to the concept of infinity.
….floweys just annoyed whenever he has to fight sans cause sans always gets under his skin and just cause flowey to have a hatred towards the guy cause he likes to put the battle in his favor remember bones on menu and such?
Sans sees right through everyone. And I think that Flowey is a victim of that. Probably in addition to the tough fight, Sans gave him a little psychological torture lol. On Flowey genocide run i mean.
@@SirSurRush Sans isn't known from psychically hurting anyone, he just abuses the game mechanics. Flowey on the other hand couldn't be a victim of a "psychological torture", cause psychological torture refers to methods that cause mental and emotional suffering. Yet Flowey cant emotionally suffer.
@@Undertalenjoyer I meant that maybe Sans found out who Flowey was and said a lot of things about it that made even Flowey uncomfortable. Also judged as a player and stuff. But yes, that doesn't go well with Flowey's soullessness and I thought it's more likely Flowey was saying that Sans knows mechanics well, studies how you fight, your attacks, limits etc.
good video!!
well, you are HORRENDOUSLY wrong at the "flowey's infinite reset" thingy just cuz clam girl said that the possibilities are infinite doesn't mean they are actually infinite.and not only that infinite means endless and with the human entering the underground and having more dt to out determine flowey already breaks that. Not only that infinite is extremely large, even tho people may just think of it as not even that big, like flowey would be bored at the 20000th reset but he wouldn't even try to go for like 100 trillion resets. he would be sooo bored that he might just give up or stop thinking completely like kars from jjba part 2, he would just become a normal flower with attacking capabilities.
however i agree with you that flowey is not scared of sans but rather sees him as a very large threat. but now that human has arrived flowey cant reset nor can he load save files, so the circumstances might change if sans decides to attack him now.
I think yes and no. I think Flowey was forced to do literally anything within his reach thus still rendering a "countless" number. (Yeah as I think of it I could word that better in the video)
flowey is NOT scared of lil 1 hp 1 atk 1 def🙏
So much of this is fluff and unnecessary, it’s very clear what’s going on
Flowey fought sans, sans is very difficult and gave flowey a bad time, he isn’t afraid of him, but he knows what he’s capable of and suggest to us that we should tell him anything, that’s why he said “he caused me more fair share of my resets then I can count” every time you die and come back, that’s included as a reset, flowey died a bunch of times to him.
@@SpoonAtNoon fluff or not fluff, I wanted to cover a broader point of view.
You are making it’s literally more of a theory when it’s obvious “my fair shake if resets” I’m not trying to be rude but are you not seeing that? Flowey obviously got into conflict with sans and died multiple times, but still I love your observation
Of course, him dying was unevitable at some point but he always could go back to his save point, and try to kill sans over and over and over, which at some point he did.
HE ONE PIECE IS REAL!!!! 0:45
Cool video
thanks fam
@@Undertalenjoyer You're welcome :)
This video is very disconnected. You jump from point to point too abruptly and you don't really explain your reasonings that well at all. Your point about Flowey resetting infinite times just left me more confused than before and I don't think your conclusion was correct.
tell me what you don't understand