Do Latter-day Saints and Protestants Share Same Gospel? - Pastor Explores
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- Опубліковано 21 сер 2022
- Pastor Asks: Do Latter-day Saints believe in the same Plan of Salvation embraced by the rest of Christianity?
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Hello Saints! My name is Jeff McCullough and I'm a Christian Pastor.
This channel is devoted to fighting criticism with curiosity as I invite dialogue between Christians and Latter-day Saints. Are Mormons christians? What do christians and Latter-day Saints agree and disagree about? Join me as I compare and contrast the lifestyle, culture and beliefs of Mormonism and the rest of the Christian community.
If you enjoyed this video, you might enjoy a similar video I made learning about the Mormon afterlife: • Pastor learns about Mo...
#LatterDaySaints #gospel #BookofMormon
This was a highly requested topic. I'd love to hear what stuck out to you most!
We must gain a body in order to be resurrected and be judged in the spirit world. we can not be resurrected if we did not at one point in time have a body.🙃
I hope you’ll forgive all my comments below, I don’t mean to feel as so your study on this subject is torn apart, but there are clear pieces that are missing that are important to delve into.
1- The breath of life is when Christ puts our spirit into our bodies. This could be thought of the flash of light that happens at conception.
2- while Christians seem to believe that heaven is an event that happens right when we die involving a final judgment, we see it as two separate sort of ‘heavens’. The physical heaven where and we are resurrected unto our kingdom of glory is different than the heaven or hell of the spirit realm. There is spirit prison and spirit paradise. This is temporary heaven and temporary hell. For spirits, not resurrected bodies. The final judgement happens at the resurrection and NOT right when we die.
3- The spirit world or realm is on earth still. So even though people’s spirits are not inside their bodies, they still can “live according to God in the spirit“ as it says in first Peter chapter 4. Therefore, they can still repent, though it is harder to do without having a physical body. they can be baptized by proxy because of the ordinances done on behalf of them. having done ordinances in the temple, I can testify that the spirit of these people truly are present when their work is done for them. Some of them do not care and don’t want to accept it. But I know some people who have definitely excepted the work done for them.
I love the ending. We believe that our fruits will be fruitful if we truly believe in Jesus Christ. We want to Obey because we love God. Our works will be an automatic causation because we want to obey Gods commandments and ordinance and Love him. Our works is a result of having faith. That's why they both go hand and hand in the LDS faith. You won't do the works if you don't have the faith.
I think the biggest thing that stuck out to me was the conflation of the Plan of Salvation and the Gospel of Christ.
While certainly not wrong, in the Restored Church we usually refer to the plan of Salvation (which is what you watched) and the Gospel of Christ - which we consider to be Faith, Repentance, Baptism by water and fire, and enduring to the end.
Just a little terminology clarification…now you know haha.
@@jenneferc8768 we actually agree with almost everything he said at the ending. I’m not sure where the disconnect that those doctrines mentioned are different from us. We know it is through His grace we are saved. Our actions reflect the faith we have and they don’t save us.
I love the way this pastor is open and aware! Not judgmental but wanting truth to prevail.
Theirs nothing good about being open about exploring a cult
@@xander-mk4ck Jeff is honest about what we evangelicals believe. He is NOT compromising the Gospel. What he is doing is showing the truth we believe in in love. The Apostle Paul did that, the Apostle John did that, so did the Early Church Fathers.
Jeff is also honestly trying to understand the beliefs and culture of Latter Day Saints as well as helping them to see the contrast with Classical Christianity. Bridges instead of barriers is not ecumenism nor heresy, it is what Jesus passed onto us with His Apostles' writings.
Jeff basically outlined what is found in Ephesians 2 outright. So I see nothing wrong in what he is doing. Latter Day Saints are a kind and beautiful people. Throwing the door in their faces is what many evangelicals have done.
As a former Atheist I am painfully aware of it. Jesus is enough. Yet, many times we get in His way.
@@xander-mk4ck you are a bigoted troll
I used to believe they were Christians until…We must each sharpen our Christian discernment.
Love the video! I could tell you’re making an effort to try and understand what we believe. However there are definitely a few misunderstandings. As others in the comment section have mentioned, it was necessary to receive a physical body in order to be resurrected and perfected through Jesus Christ. Those that didn’t have the opportunity to hear the gospel still had opportunities to learn and grow. Their experiences will be extremely beneficial in eternity especially if their goal aligns with God’s plan for them to become like Jesus. We believe we are 100% saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ (Ephesians 2:8). However we also believe that if we have faith in Jesus Christ that means we will do what he says. “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.” (Mark 16:16). Does that mean the baptism saves us? Obviously not. Jesus saves us. But in order to gain access to his grace we need to exercise faith by doing what he says. “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21). Did bathing in the river Jordan 7 times heal Naaman? No. God healed him. Would he have been healed if he didn’t do it after a prophet of God showed him the way? I personally don’t think so. He needed to act in faith. “Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:18)
@joshua beautifully explain. It really is a misconception. Thank you for the references.
I'm former LDS now Orthodox and the beliefs aren't too dissimilar, that we are saved by grace through faith but that if you truly have the Holy Spirit, then you want to do good works in response, hence "faith without works is dead."
I love this response.
I also really loved the observation the Pastor made in the video that, if there’s an opportunity to accept Christ after this life, the vast majority of people would go the the Celestial kingdom.
Yes!!! God is good at what he does. He wants 100% of us to be there. He will not force us, but will give us every opportunity to accept Him and be changed by Him.
@@Truthatallcosts777 explain please.
@@Truthatallcosts777 I wish you would dive deeper into the church before making such a statement. We in no way deny the Deity of Christ. He is a member of the Godhead (therefore God), is our Lord and Savior. I love Him so much, I owe all the goodness in my life to Him
So close! No latter-Day saint would agree we put our faith IN our own works. It always has, is, and will be about the grace of Jesus Christ. I have only heard protestants imply that our intentions are on works. Personally, it's so frustrating. It's like attributing false motives. It's like offering me less and telling me I'm working too hard at the same time. No. I love Jesus and I'll do what he asks. The answer is simple. In John 14:15 he said, if you love me, keep my commandments. Reverse engineer that; If you don't keep His commandments, you aren't loving Him. I don't remember Jesus saying not to be baptized. Only the contrary. I invite you to learn why Jesus was baptized in the Book Of Mormon and commanded us all to do likewise. You spoke a beautiful sermon at the end, which is not contrary to the plan of salvation. I'm watching saying "we believe that too!" I feel most of our differences are just semantics. Also, the thief on the cross went to paradise which is not yet Heaven. But keep learning! You'll figure it out. I can't wait until you read the Book Of Mormon or react to a General Conference talk.
Awesome comment and completely agree!
I’m sorry to hear that you’re in a cult
Baptism won’t save us our faith in Christ will. We get baptized to follow Christ. There are distinct differences between what the LDS believe and Christians believe. The biggest one is who Jesus is and that we can become like him. That concept is found nowhere in the Bible. There was in the beginning one God and and there will always be one God.
I pray that one day you will find the God of the Bible.
@@lorineilson7529 we could discuss further and though I have biblical evidence to support my position, I’d prefer not to focus on our differences but thank you for your prayers and concern on my behalf. I invite you to continue to follow the Lord Jesus Christ and keep his commandments. He loves you and me despite both our weaknesses and misunderstandings. ❤️
As a Protestant, I believe that if you sincerely repent to (which means: to change your mind or to turn from/to) God, you will be saved by the blood of Jesus Christ. If your repentance is sincere, fruit or works will naturally follow the repentance. I think what is the most significant difference between our beliefs is that you don't believe a person has to repent to enter (the lowest level of) heaven. You, from what I gather, believe that Jesus Christ's sacrifice covers people's sins even if they do not repent.
I am 18 years old and currently serving a mission, I was called to Provo Utah! I love watching your videos and the respect that you give us later-day saints. I also love and respect your beliefs, all beliefs about Christ are beautiful! Great channel, with great content. Keep it up!
@ Andon Basset - God bless you as it sounds like you have a good heart for the Lord.
@ Eric Lawton: James 4:6
Didn't Christ tell his apostles after he came down from the Mount of transfiguration, to leave the other guy alone who cast out the demons that they couldn't, because if he wasn't against them then he was with them? (I'm paraphrasing because I don't know the exact quote)
Thank you for this, it was simple, straightforward and humble. Thank you for pointing out those areas we agree and disagree rather than just bashing. We’re planning on doing a response to this video that tells where we differ from your Plan of Salvation. Hopefully it’s as graceful and wonderful as yours was.
@@DrScottWH Your reply seems to convey you have zero understanding of the power of the Holy Spirit to instruct, interpret, lead as the Good Shepherd does. And I don't think anyone is getting paid for posting to YT. More likely he's paying to have the channel. And there were more than 12 apostles mentioned in the New Testament. It wasn't supposed to be the start of a whole different church structure. It was to turn the world upside down as it says in Acts, and we believers in every generation continue that adventure.
Keep in mind pastor, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints, put out video in a simplistic way, so someone as young as a child can comprehend the basic topics of the Gospel. It's meant to be simple and a quick overview. This is just tip of the iceberg. Another idea is watching this with missionaries or a bishop form a local ward to you. Thank you for comparing and contrasting. I love learning from other Christian faiths.
Lol Jen Cooo that is super accurate, lol I personally think meeting with the Scholars would be actually very insightful for him more, since he is a Theology scholar and teacher as well, it would certainly be interesting don`t you think? Either way, Super awesome suggestion by the way!
Depending though, even missionaries may have simply a basic understanding of the Plan of Salvation. So much of our discipleship relies on faith, and everyone's progression and understanding is unique. As we learn piece by piece, our faith can grow. For a more comprehensive study, studying the words of scholars is definitely helpful. To those looking for clear answers to very specific questions about what we believe and why, "Fair Latter-day Saint" (formally "Fair Mormon") is one excellent source (website). It addresses the plan of salvation, eternal marriage in context of the bible, evidences for the Book of Mormon and much more..
@@mew9108 You're so Awesome! You said it way better!
If you really want to learn beyond these simplistic videos, Jared Halverson would be an excellent resource for you, pastor. So would Brad Wilcox. ❤️
I hope that can happen. May be a future episode idea there.
An ambassador for the gospel - telling the truth in love. Well-done! It's a fine line to stay true to what you represent while also remaining as a friend.
Amen! Your breakdown of what it means to be born again in Jesus Christ was very well-said. I am glad you are a pastor, as you seem to have a real knack for articulating the Gospel.
I was brought up in the Christian church. My grandfather was a minister. I had a lot of questions that no one seemed to have the answers to. Such as what happens to those who never had the chance to heat the gospel message. Oh I was told they go to He'll. The Bible tells of christ after his death entered into the spirit world and organized those who would teach the gospel to those individuals. I find that many folks do not even really read the Bible let alone pray about the teachings. Anyway at age 14 I read every thing about the Latter-day Saints that I could find. I prayed 🙏 and in time I came to know that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true. I am 71 today and I still have that same testimony. I have great respect for my family and friends of all faiths. I like that you are respectful of our faith because their are many that are hurtful and very disrespectful. Thank you for being open minded. I believe those who truly love Christ will at some point find the correct path. Our Heavenly Father loves us all and wants us to come hone when we gave finished here. I am so thankful to know that after this life we can be together as families. So many are doing geneology because they have been touched by the spirit of Elijah. I am still learning. We are eternal beings having an earthly 🌎 experience and hopefully will be faithful in our testimonies of Jesus Christ. The scriptures and those prayers or conversations with the Lord will lead us back to his presence. Have a blessed day 🙏
Reading the comments in these videos, it's very apparent that this "what happens to those who never heard about Jesus" is an established talking point in the LDS church.
@@peaceful525 ❤ Not just a talking point, but a huge part that sets our beliefs apart from the rest of the world. So, of course, it will be one of the big "talking points," for sure.
We believe God loves us all and wants all to return to him. But we also believe that we are all Children of God. We believe that God feels sorrow when a man sins and lives a life OF THE WORLD and within himself. Just like a parent would grieve over their own child who goes astray to live a life of self-satisfaction and partying -A path of darkness and misery. The lost sheep isn't just the believer who left the fold. All sinners and lost souls are His sheep. If we weren't all His Children, then why would he even bother to grieve for those souls also?
So, I wonder if this LDS doctrine of us all having an equal chance to accept Christ would only make sense to us since we believe that even the murderer is a Child of God. 😌❤
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr I can easily see how you interpret "Children of God" only to be for the believers of Christ. Especially since the passages in the scriptures speak directly to followers. But nowhere in the scriptures does it say that the Gentiles, or nonbelievers, are not Children of God also. And just bc they are speaking to followers does not mean The Word was only written for them.
If you read the Bible, and Christ's teachings, as if they are not only for the believers but for the Gentiles as well, then you can conclude He meant all of us... unless He explicitly says otherwise. But I have never read a passage stating specifically that they are not Children of God. And if you believe that God grieves for all people, followers or not, then it would be easy to conclude that He loves them. And why would He love them if they were not His??
So, we can see why you believe what you believe, but it should be just as easy for you to see why we believe what we do. Whether we agree or not. 😌❤
Romans 3:29 "Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also"
Romans 9:24 "Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?"
25 "As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved."
26 "And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God."
27 "Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:"
28 "For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth."
29 "And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha."
30 "What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith."
By the way, we believe this also. ❤😊 Love your tag name.
"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr I agree 100% ❤
If you are a true student of scripture you will know what Peter meant... Jesus didn't go and preach to the dead at his death. To live in sin means death and it's the same as being in Satan's prison. So Jesus preached to those spirit in prison through the message he gave Noah that's what he meant.
What a beautiful explanation of the Gift of Christ and how salvation is obtained. Works will not get us into Heaven but we show those works because the love we have for what Jesus had done for us. I am a nondenominational Christian but think you explained the gift of salvation so beautifully
Thank you for doing this! This brought me a lot of clarity.
Hi Pastor Jeff. Thank you very very much for all your videos. I really enjoy them very much. Thank you for your Christ like approach, your love and kindness speaks volumes. Thank you.
Thanks for your description of the plan of salvation! Very respectfully done.
If you believe that we don't need to be baptized, then why did Jesus go out of his way to be baptized by John?
Multiple levels of heaven, works based salvation, eternal marriages, baptisms for the deceased, obsession with obedience, believing you will become your own Gods (polytheism).....on and on....None of this is Biblical, therefore not Christian. There is hardly any comparison.
Hi Jeff! Can I help address the issues you have, from an LDS perspective? I have a simplified way of seeing our faith, so I think I can break down some of these into bite-sized understandings. I say understandings because I don't expect you to agree with them, and I'm totally fine with that.
If you'd be so patient to read, I'll start with my personal favorite of the issues you mentioned, and go from there. I'll address more of you find some value in how I present it.
Let's address the "becoming our own gods" issue! Our belief in this stems from Psalms 82:6 and Romans 8:17, which refer to being gods, heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ, inheriting all that the Father has and is.
Since we believe that this world is kind of a training ground to knowing God and His role as our father (we as His children) it might be easiest to find that similarity right in our own roles as children and parents! As a father of 4 myself, I know the deep and abiding love of a father. I'm very proud of each of my sons and the progress they make. I enjoy their interests, I try to impart wisdom on them, give them rules to follow which I follow up with praise or correction, and I want for them to grow into good, strong, honorable men. It's my job to prepare them for adulthood. My eldest son is now a father to a young toddler, and his efforts to be a good father honor me, and I try to ensure that he continues to have the tools he needs to be a good father.
We believe that the greatest thing about God is His ability to eternally create - that He can create worlds without number and people to populate them. When we talk about becoming gods, it's this aspect that we aspire to. We aspire to create, to find joy in our own posterity, and to honor him more as we do so. We believe that this is what God the Father is teaching us to do now, in simplified terms.
I find that this explanation is a little harder to understand if you aren't a parent yourself, but it's all the more beautiful if you are a grandparent. Your children inherit the goodness you instill in them, and their posterity further add to your glory and name, just as we will someday do for our Heavenly Father.
Such a wonderful video. You are such a kind, sincere, knowledgeable man. Thank you for your interest in the LDS Church.
I think it’s time you read and pray about the Book of Mormon with the intent of finding out it’s truthfulness through prayer to God.
I despise this comment, because you are implying people can’t read, pray and be converted to the notion it’s NOT true. How do you know he hasn’t?
@@klassymom4118 so you despise James 1:5 and Moroni 10:3-5? My comment says nothing about implying someone can’t read and pray…what a ridiculous soft comment.
@@TJ-hw9jr what I asked is what if you pray and you conclude from the holy spirit the BofM is not true! Would a Mormon conclude that prayer valid from the spirit of God? Simple question yes or no will do.
So fun! I was just discussing these differences with some evangelical friends yesterday! I just wanted to point out one thing. Being baptized is a representation of being born again into a new life. And like when we were born the first time we have a father and a mother, when we are born again we become children of Christ, like what you said you believe as well ❤️
Thank you for sharing this video with us.
Beautiful testimony, Pastor.
Pastor Jeff, thank you for another informative video. I have always found immense comfort knowing that God is my Heavenly Father, it allows me to relate to Him and to Jesus Christ and knowing that He desires me to be more like him, so much so that He sacrificed His only begotten for me, makes me feel like I have a place in this existence.
I’m curious to better understanding from the Protestant perspective what was Gods purpose for even creating us and what ultimately is His purpose for us in the future?
Second, you mentioned the angels who rebelled before the world was. Since there is no pre earth existence who and what are these angels?
Keep up the good work with these videos, can’t tell you how much I appreciate your approach and genuine respect of our faith as you share your own faith. Thank you.
God created us for relationship with him, and we are through jesus restored to that relationship with him for eterntity. We are redeemed to belong to Gods Kingdom (Gods people, Gods place, Gods rule). There will come a time when this Earth is burnt away and then made new, and God will live with his people
Jack Mormon here, glad you are hosting this open dialog
Hello Pastor Jeff!
I appreciate your content a lot. It is so amazing to see someone willing to discuss such an emotional and passionate topic as religion with such openness and respect. Thank you for fostering this attitude of curiosity and respect on your channel!
I think sometimes as LDS people, we get caught up in material things or practices and don't focus as much on the grace and love of our Savior. Though I completely believe in all of the practices and policies of the Church, I think sometimes our LDS CULTURE (especially in utah) strays a bit from what it truly important: the grace, love, and teachings of Jesus Christ. You have motivated me as an LDS person to remember WHY I love the LDS gospel: because it reflects how I feel about Christ and brings me closer to His spirit.
I think if you want to do more interesting doctrinal content like this, it would be highly beneficial to discuss with a member, particularly a missionary. The church's videos are very simplified, so as to be able to explain the gospel on a level that even a child could understand. The church's Gospel Topics writings (found on the Gospel Library app) are also a great place to gain a deeper understanding of LDS beliefs and doctrine.
Pastor Jeff, I absolutely love what you are doing here reaching out to our LDS friends. May God go before you and open doors. 🙏
Thank you for this! I've been a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints all my life, but also consider myself a convert -- converted to the restored Gospel through my 55 years immersed in it. The video you watched -- I would have a couple of issues with it myself, as not much is mentioned about GRACE, which should be emphasized. I love your description of the Protestant / Evangelical "plan of salvation" -- I found myself saying, Yes, Yes, and Yes through so much of it! To me, ordinances (physical symbols like baptism and the sacrament) are for us to learn the "language of God" as Christ teaches through parables AND through the physical ordinances & symbolism of baptism and the sacrament / "My ways are not your ways" / "meat vs. milk" / "learning Heaven, not earning Heaven" / doing the things Jesus asked of us by his example / and all of that. Temple ordinances are more of the same. And there are a few members of the church that hold the door open on the topic of possible further eternal progression from one kingdom level to the next, but that's not something that is openly discussed and I think most are adamant that it's not possible -- (I'm not convinced).
As for the pre-earth life part of the video and your comments, I would highly recommend watching the new documentary *"Remembering Heaven"* -- a lot of scholarly references to the Early Christian beliefs about a pre-earth existence and why that teaching was later rejected within Christianity ... I think around 500 or 600 AD. -- It was in theaters for a short time in May, but I'm not sure about the availability of a DVD or streaming yet, but the trailer is here on UA-cam. Keep that one on your radar if you're looking for more answers on that topic.
And yes, I'll jump in a bit on the question of couldn't we have just gone straight to learning/accepting the Gospel in heaven without the step to come to earth? Experiencing and choosing good over evil and gaining a body is an essential part that couldn't be had any other way.
What does the Protestant / Evangelical faith teach about those who have not learned of Christ here on earth and die without accepting Him as their Savior / being born again? Will they be taught about Him and have that opportunity after death?
I'm reading a book called "Original Grace" by Adam S. Miller that I think is fascinating and I'd recommend it to you.
I hope the next time you're in SLC you'll take time to visit the Humanitarian Center!
I have to say that many LDS members have been commenting on how simple the video was and I agree but it does give true doctrine of the LDS church and it does differ immensely from a biblical Christian gospel of salvation.
The video doesn’t talk about Grace cause it doesn’t really matter, as an LDS member you can not go for a temple interview to receive a temple recommend and tell your Bishop that you are still “learning heaven”. You either are following and “doing” what is required regarding the principles and ordinances of the gospel to receive a temple recommend or you are not. According to the Articles of Faith 3-4. No temple recommend then you are not saved. No Celestial kingdom. Not Sealed to your family and no Eternal marriage. No living with God for eternity, you will be living in a different kingdom than God. Grace does not cover this fact in the LDS church. You must do All you can do. Plus, it all begins with baptism, no baptism no temple recommend. So these requirements are not just symbols they are absolutely necessary for the plan of salvation to work in an LDS life here on earth. And if you don’t do these things here then your faith is in other members to do the works of baptism for you so you can have a second chance in the Spirit world. So who are you putting your faith in to save your families or friends? It is in your own temple work not in Jesus alone to save. As the temples were closed because of Covid just went to show that the LDS saving works here on earth can be stopped. But with Jesus this will never happen because He said so himself on the cross “It is finished.” Look to Jesus and have Him as your temple recommend for eternal life.
Regarding "eternal progression", I asked my mission president if that extended to progression between kingdoms after judgment, and he said there was nothing in our doctrine that prohibeted progression between kindgoms. His father is the current first presidency.
I’m sorry hear that you’re in a cult and have been blinded for 50 years . I’m truly sorry
Hi. The plan of salvation is not “the gospel” for Mormons.
The Gospel of Jesus Christ is summed up in:
1. Having Faith in Christ
2. Repenting of our sin
3. Accepting Christ as Savior through baptism
4. Receiving the Gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands
5. Enduring to the end and choosing to be faithful to all of the Lord’s commandments.
@ Hayden Carroll - thank you so much for laying this out. This is helpful as a non-LDS Christian to see that there are some differences. For #5, can you share a little bit on what happens if someone doesn’t follow all of the Lord’s commandments. Will that affect where they go after this life ends?
We can't obey all the commandments, even the 10, or the first 2 great ones, because we're human, and don't know everything, or how to do it right, and always need to repent. But we must try. The God who judges knows our hearts.
@ Vicki Rasmussen - thanks so much for your response as that makes sense. I agree with you that if we’re truly saved, we will want to try and follow the commandments, but we’re still human and will stumble and fall. I’m just wondering, do you know if our ability to follow all of the commandments could have some affect on which Heaven we go into in LDS belief?
@@gtf5392 I guess I am not sure what you mean about "ability" because our abilities are limited. I know that I am happiest when I focus on what I know is right and good. God knows where my heart is, and he forgives and is merciful. His love is always there. I don't worry about where I will go after I die because I trust in God that it will be just. I don't look at any of it as punishment. The only punishment is what we give ourselves. In my LDS faith we believe that wherever we go it will be better than we could ever imagine. It will be right for us. That is what a loving God provides for his children. And for those who want no part of God, they will get that too. God forces no one to heaven. We were free to come into the world, and we are free to return home to God if that is what we want. I don't know if that is where you were going with your question!
@ Vicki Rasmussen - Sorry for the delay in responding. I just want to say that I love everything you shared. I especially like how you shared that God looks at our hearts and what is on the inside rather than what is on the outside. I agree and think that is why Jesus spoke out against the Pharisees so much in as they had the outside air of religiosity and status, but inside their hearts were far from God. So I agree with pretty much everything you said and can tell that you have a really kind and genuine heart.
I guess the one subtle difference, but important one, between the LDS gospel and the non-LDS Christian one as I look at Hayden’s list has to do with the extent of God’s grace. Non-LDS Christians believe that Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross covers all our sins - past, present, and future. And when we place our Faith in Jesus, we receive the fullness of God’s grace and our destiny is sealed from that point forward to have eternal life in heaven and in God’s presence. So, we, as parents, and our kids are all assured of going to the same Heaven the day we each individually placed our faith in Jesus. So, this removes the need for temple sealings and ordinances through earthly priesthood authorities, as Jesus never emphasized those things. It also takes out all the guesswork and uncertainty of wondering ‘have I done enough’. All Jesus wants, and all He ever wanted is our hearts. This is the simplicity and beauty of the gospel.
Now a common follow-up question is that many LDS Christians will ask is- do non-LDS Christians believe that means after you’re saved you can just do whatever you want? Well, the truth is when we give our lives to Jesus, we receive His Holy Spirit and He begins working in us from that point forward. So, the things we want to do completely change. We are, in essence, reborn. We now want to live for and serve such a loving and holy and gracious God. We are no longer striving to live for ourselves and build up our earthly kingdoms that will just fade away anyway. And the spirit leads us each in the ways to serve Him with the gifts He has given us.
I’m sorry to pour my heart out and perhaps I’m misinterpreting the difference. It’s just when I read point #5, my concern is that might place unrealistic expectations on people as the Bible says that all have sinned and fall short of God’s glory. So, His perfect sacrifice on the cross can have any impact in restoring us to a right relationship with Him.
Anyway, God bless and thank you for the honest, heart-felt conversation.
Just found your channel as a member of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I think it’s awesome what you’re doing and really insightful. Our neighbors are pastors of the Methodist faith and are some of the best people we know. Reminder that all faiths are just awesome as we follow Christ.
Jeff, my heart sang at your presentation of the gospel.
Salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, to God's glory alone - this is what unites all true Christians around the world.
I like this too! No one will ever be saved by anything they do. It's only Christ who saves!
We believe in salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone to God’s glory alone. That’s what he missed.
@Aaron Shafovaloff, I actually have a long-standing question on the grace alone doctrine and you seem like a good person to ask.
Unfortunately I need to preface by saying that I know you get lots of people trying to do ‘gotcha’ questions, but please believe me when I say this is not that.
Let me first reassure that my belief is that I am saved by Christ alone, only through His merits.
My question is this:
How is having faith in Christ and turning from your sin not a “work” in the same way our ordinances are works?
Often our article of Faith 3 is used to show that we believe that it is only by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel that we are saved through the Atonement of Christ. Fair enough.
But we would say that Faith in Christ is the first principle and law of the gospel. You got to obey that law of the gospel - have faith in Christ - to be be saved. I think we agree on this tho.
Is it just a terminology dispute? Calling faith a law?
@@zionmama150 but doesn't 2 Nephi 25:23 say a "For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do" and “We do not need to achieve some minimum level of capacity or goodness before God will help-divine aid can be ours every hour of every day, no matter where we are in the path of obedience. But I know that beyond desiring His help, we must exert ourselves, repent, and choose God for Him to be able to act in our lives consistent with justice and moral agency” (D. Todd Christofferson, “Free Forever, to Act for Themselves,” Ensign or Liahona, Nov. 2014, 19) so in light of both these examples, it's not by faith alone, but faith, works and grace.
@LUKE B I think the simplest answer is that we emphasize works and exertion in addition to grace because we don’t believe that accepting Christ and being filled with Holy Spirit deprives you of the ability to choose. It changes your nature, but not your ability to choose good or evil.
Thus grace is needed for salvation. And then just like some exertion was needed for the initial learning abt Christ, continued exertion is needed for continued acceptance of His grace.
Cool video. I felt the spirit during that LDS video section
I felt it all throughout! Jeff had a beautiful faith, and we're lucky to get to know Christ better through him. 😊
As an LDS member I love and appreciate your channel. It's awesome to see just how similar our faith in the Savior really is. Thank you for your focus on respectful conversation rather than our differences.
No, I’m afraid he is after comparison only, look if I was to create my own video citing his belief and react and then I would give emphasis on what I believe using scriptures as well and this only happens in the end of the video so we as viewers might only get that thing said lastly and more likely to stick to our minds. I don’t really believe in this Pastor.
Great presentation of the gospel, thanks for sharing it.
I just started following your videos and love them. It is so healthy and helpful to have open conversations like this. I appreciate learning about other religions and seeing our commonalities… which are more than not. It made me smile when you questioned why people even need to come to earth to prove their willingness to follow god if they are given the chance to be taught in the spirit world… wouldn’t that mean 100% of people could make it to the celestial kingdom?
You answered your own question in sorts. Why, YES! I think we can all agree that we believe in a God who saves, loves, and wants everyone to come to him. The doctrine that all people will have the chance to be taught of god and repent exclaims the merciful character of god. Doesn’t it? And to really answer your question, the purpose for coming to earth is two-fold: to get a physical body so we can become like God (which was not possible pre-mortally) and second, to use our agency to choose God.
If you haven’t already, you may want to explore the Pearl of Great Price- another book of scripture. It teaches that God’s work and glory is to “bring to pass the salvation and eternal life of man.” To me, that means God will do everything He can so that those who make it to heaven numbers 100% if they so choose.
Keep these awesome videos coming!
Love your spirit and we see works the same way; being born again changes our purpose for living and leads us to exercise faith that results in the bearing of sweet fruit. Thank you for your good works! Let your light so shine…
Thank you Pastor for another informative video.
A much better message Jeff! This one got me liking and subscribing. This message finally touches on the essentials of the Christian gospel... which LDS members need hear. And if they can hear it from someone's approach they like, then I'm all for supporting this type of message (focusing on the essentials of Christianity).
When I associate the word "pastor" and "evangelical", at the very least, this approach has much more positive impact when interacting with LDS members.
Thank you for taking the time to watch other videos, Ken. Grateful for your feedback. Blessings in Christ, brother.
Hi! Concerning your question about the Spirit World, in a section of Doctrine and Covenants it is mentioned that those who DIDN'T get the chance to hear the gospel can be saved. So that's what I think, that the gospel is preached to those who died without knowing of the gospel nor having the chance to accept it or reject it. The point of is that everyone deserves a chance to accept or reject the gospel, no one can see God at the judgement day without having that chance. Responding to this question, some christian friends have answered that God is merciful and everyone who died without knowing the gospel but would have accepted it if that chance was given to them , then they get a pass to heaven. I don't see it as anything bad, I see it as beautiful, I simply have a question that's like yours: "What's the point of teaching Christianity if those (good people) who don't get to hear about it go to heaven anyways?" If a good person who never heard of Christ can be saved...why is faith in Christ necessary?". In a nutshell, we believe everyone deserves a chance. I know it's not very convincing, but it's just my pov.
In the grace vs. works debate I just have to say this: It's like you said, we have a similar definition but in a different context. So we believe God the Father wants us to be like him, being 'heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ' so we believe that our purpose is not to simply be clean from sin. So the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ makes it possible for us to '1. Be cleansed & 2. Be Christlike. We believe we are cleansed by having faith in Jesus, repenting of our sins and making that promise to always follow him, like you said. We believe at this stage ordinances play a key part because we believe that baptism by someone holding the priesthood is the way to 'sign the contract' that allows us to make a 'covenant' with God. What happens if we don't get baptized or 'sign the contract'? we believe that the process stays incomplete. In Acts 19, we see that some people were baptized 'unto John's baptism' so Paul baptized the in the name of Jesus and gave them the Holy Ghost, if baptism wasn't necessary, a simple clarification would've been sufficient. In fact, out of the many disciples we know and see as 'main characters' in the New Testament, only this man in the cross is known to never get baptized, so in a ratio of thousands of people to 1 we believe it was also necessary back then (we also believe Jesus meant the Spirit World by paradise, but I know why that doesn't sound convincing and there would be more explaining to do). The ordinances in the temple are part of becoming Christlike, like having one on one personal lessons with him, one can skip the classes and not go to hell but that person is missing the benefit and power that comes from there. As for works, I think it's been greatly misunderstood by both sides (our stance on grace is misunderstood, I mean). You believe works are a result, and not a requirement, of the side you choose. We simply believe that when Jesus said: "If ye love me, keep my commandments" he meant we need to keep his commandments and if we sin we will face the consequences of our actions unless we repent and trust God. Ordinances are seen as necessary in order to be LIKE God and not just WITH God. Like you said, in our context it makes sense, but in yours it doesn't, that's just what we believe. (we also believe the ordinances are NOT a guarantee you go to heaven, we believe we make promises there, and our loyalty to those promises we make with God is what matters)
We don't believe that because of Jesus' sacrifice we don't have to do these things, but we believe that it is thanks to Jesus that we CAN do this things. He is the key, if it wasn't for Him, we couldn't be clean nor make sacred promises with God.
As for the degrees of glory, I saw your video a week ago about the degrees of glory and I was told something similar about the 'third' heaven Paul referring to the three layers of heaven people saw (the literal sky, outer space, and the presence of God, for me it is interesting and beautiful how this symbolism works) I just want to share some quotes from early Christian fathers that support the idea that in early Christianity there was a belief in 3 heavens as Latter-day Saints know them:
Clement of Alexandria (ca. 200 A.D)
“There are various abodes in heaven. These chosen abodes, which are three, are indicated by the numbers in the gospel of Matthew (Matthew 13:8) The thirty, the sixty, and the hundred.”
Iraneus (ca. 200 A.D)
“Then those who are deemed worthy of abode in heaven shall go there, others shall enjoy the delights of paradise, and other shall as the splendor of the city … They say moreover, that there is this distinction between the habitation of those who produce an hundred-fold, and those that produce sixty-fold, and of those who produce thirty-fold: for the first will be taken up into the heavens, the second will dwell in paradise, the last will inhabit the city … The Elders, who were the disciples of the apostles, affirm that this is the gradation and arrangement of those who are saved, and that was on this account the Lord declared, In My Father's house are many mansions. John 14:2 For all things belong to God, who supplies all with a suitable dwelling-place; even as His Word says, that a share is allotted to all by the Father, according as each person is or shall be worthy."
Jeff feel free to message me with any questions on LDS beliefs. I don't go to church anymore, but was raised LDS, got baptized when I was 8, got the aaronic and Melchizedek priesthood when I was older, served an LDS mission (in Utah - I'm originally from upstate NY), and got married in an LDS temple. My grandma was a convert to the LDS church, so growing up she taught us many "christian" teachings, which made things really confusing for me, especially when other Christians told me I wasn't Christian. There are many other topics that would be great to discuss including: early morning seminary, home teaching (which is now called "ministering"), fast and testimony meetings, how we pray vs how Christians pray, church meets, tithing, etc. Right now I'm not very religious, but love what I have seen so far. I love this idea of learning from others. My uncle Chris was a Christian and so I'm familiar with a lot of the beliefs, but confused by many others. My family is very LDS. Much love. Joe.
Thanks for your video!
Doing a great job! And, your video presentation is very nice 👍
Thank you so much for sharing your view and beliefs on the Plan of Salvation! I am very grateful to understand more of how you view God’s beautiful plan for us. There are so many wonderful similarities between the two plans presented here and I am grateful that we both believe that Jesus Christ is central to God’s plan, saving us from our fallen state! Blessed be the name of Jesus!!!! God bless you my brother:)
6:35 - "What is the need to even come to earth if the gospel can simply be shared in the afterlife?" - I'd suggest looking at Alma 40, D&C 138, and 1 Peter 4.
A key reason for coming to earth? To gain a body and experience life. Even Christ came to earth in part for the physical experience (Alma 7:11-13). When we arrive in the spirit world after death we still retain what we learned in life; we don't become a different person with a different nature. Receiving the gospel there still requires the same things that are required here (faith, repentance, etc.) which is why temple ordinances are important to us (completing the physical acts). However, we still don't really know much about the spirit world.
Thanks for your objective reaction :)
Hi Jeff, I am LDS, and I enjoy your approach. Like you I try to understand the context/narrative so that we are discussing on the same platform level. There is still a disconnect and I appreciate you are doing your best, but can I say that we do use the same words but with different meanings, so it is easy to think you / we are talking about the same thing when you / we are not. For instance you say that we believe we are saved by our works and that we neglect the Grace of Christ. Some do misunderstand and use the famous verse in Nephi to state that we believe works save us. I served my mission in the 1980's and believe you me, many evangelicals believed in what we call "cheap grace", that they were saved once and always be saved, regardless of what they did in their lives. The evangelical faith like ours has tried very much to rectify it, but in my day it was rampant. If you are going to continue believing in the false premise that its our works that save us, then we have the right to continually believe in what many evangelicals in that past did, that all they had to do was say I believe and are saved once and forever. Evangelicals have tried to rectify the cheap grace attitude, and teach the real meaning just like we are trying to do the same with people who went too far and believed more in the works aspect, changing the context, just like the Jews had done. It happens.
As you said it is the change that the spirit of Christ has on us that inspires us to do his works. As they are Christ's that is what makes them essential. Christ commanded baptism, not Moses or any other. Except a man be born again he cannot SEE the Kingdom of God, except a man be born of the water and of the spirit, he CANNOT ENTER the Kingdom of God. What Christ told the apostles to do was baptise NEW converts, in all the world. Baptism is for new converts to enter the kingdom of God. They agree also to receive the Holy Ghost by those who had authority to lay their hands on their heads and give them it. Being born again doesn't save initially, it prepares for entering into the waters to outwardly show that a person has accepted Christ. They had to wait until Pentecost to receive that gift as they had to wait until Christ had gone for the Holy Ghost to come upon them, but it makes sense that they had been blessed for that to happen.
The Gospel of Paul was to those who had already been baptised into the Kingdom of God: the saints at whatever place he visited., they didn't need to be rebaptised, but they had to be reminded that the old works of their past Jewish lifestyle were not in the Dead works of the Mosaic Law, but in the sacrifice in the pure Lamb of God: a once only sacrifice to save the world.
I will explain back to you how an evangelical explained to me: there are works of salvation ( I use the meaning as an evangelical viewpoint) and works of reward. Many times LDS use the term salvation, while meaning the evangelical equivalent of rewards. You would call it a general salvation. We believe in a wider salvation than evangelicals do, but if we were to equate it to your meanings, the Temple ordinances are those of rewards for continuing in the life of Christ. Only Christ saved us from Death & Hell. No ones individual work has or can save us from that. Like you we believe that as we become a new creature in Christ, we will be Joint Heirs with Christ.
I believe many evangelicals are actually Paulanites: To dismiss Christ's words on the importance of baptism to NEW MEMBERS of his church, by using Paul's words to ALREADY MEMBERS and using that to DISMISS the words of Christ, makes them Paulanites, not Biblical Christians.
The Trinity explanation of God, creates a method to which contexts of God can be switched depending on the Argument. Lets go with "No man has seen God at any time" and "God is Spirit"; Using that premise, Jesus Cannot be God. Many people have seen Jesus and Jesus has a body. However Jesus also said, "He that seeth me hath ALSO SEEN the Father". In an evangelical context this is a direct contradiction, unless there is a different interpretation of the word Spirit.
The LDS version of the oneness of God makes more sense, especially when you understand that God made man and women to become one, and when Christ said to his Father to let them be one even as we are one. Also we can become JOINT HEIRS with Christ. So becoming one with Christ and thus becoming one with the Father has deeper meaning.
You used the man on the cross being together with Christ in paradise. Using some logic. Christ taught baptism as part of entering the Kingdome of God. The man recognised who Jesus was and likewise Jesus knew him. He can easily let a follower of him know he would be in paradise with Christ. Unless you are a prophet, or someone in the evangelical faith is a prophet, they cannot with any authority say this man on the cross was not a baptised member of Christs church. In fact how the man responded would suggest he was a baptised member.
You used the scripture the we become the sons of Christ, to say we could not have been the Sons of God in a pre-existance. God the Father and Jesus Christ are separate Beings. We are the sons of God literally as spirits, who came to the earth to get Physical bodies. Man became fallen both spiritually and physically to die twice so to speak. Christ saved us from death (resurrection) of the body, and spiritually being saved as his spiritual sons: but not literally the actual Father of our spirit birth. So that scripture you used, is not in context.
"Surely the Lord God will do nothing but he revealeth his secrets unto his servants the prophets". Please let me know which prophets your interpretations of the scriptures has come from to define the trinity, and the nature of God, as the trinity is a post biblical teaching. Knowing who God really is in his nature will make things much clearer.
Oh can you please also chat about "in the beginning" and what was before the beginning? No Biblical Christian has ever provided an explanation. I would like to know. It is also somethin Biblical Christians need to actually consider
Pastor Jeff, as a fellow Christian (former Mormon as well) this is the best site for LDS members to be able to learn Christian truths in a non-threatening loving way. Thank you for doing this!!
What a great video. Seems like we have some differences however, we believe a lot of what you are saying. You’re just saying it in a different way. I love this!!
I really like Pastor how you disagree without being condescending. Now I do want to point out something that has to do with my faith as a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Yes we do believe we are the children of God that is of our Heavenly Father. We were spirits before we were here. You talked about how your faith differs because you believe that if we accept Jesus we are adopted by God. We actually believe that if we are faithful (including acceptance of Jesus as our Lord and Savior) we are adopted by Christ and that we must be part of His fold to return to live with our Father in heaven. So we don't ignore those scriptures that talk about adoption we again just interpret them differently from you.
I do respect your effort to understand the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. And I appreciate the way in which you compare our faith with mainline Christian beliefs. But, in order to complelely comprehend what we believe, you would need a more in depth research. It would take actually having the missionaries give you lessons where you could ask many questions to clarify our beliefs. We, as I'm sure you already know, also believe in the Book of Mormon, that we believe it to also be real scripture. We also believe in the Bible as far as it is translated correctly.(meaning: we believe that many of the plain and simple parts of the Bible were lost or taken out) If you read the Book of Mormon you will see that it goes along with the Bible. There are many references from the books of the Bible in it as well.
That being said, we also beleve in modern day prophecy that can be found in the Doctrine and Covenants. We believe that Christ's true Church is set up today as it was when Jesus was here, with 12 Apostles and a Prophet to lead the Church.
My point is that you can't judge or truly understand the Gospel as we believe it from watching one little "over- view" video.
So good! I appreciate your videos! I'm a Biblical Christian living in Utah and meet with LDS Missionaries regularly to learn more and also share my perspective on truly what the Bible teaches. It can be discouraging and often seems like I go in circles- they often agree on so much yet I see such a difference between beliefs in the centrality of the Good News and who God is. I'm no theologian and can't recall all scripture but I am encouraged to see your pov and it's helping to remind me of the truth and not get so caught up on things! Thank you!
Bless you for your evangelism, abbi. Reading the comments from LDS members in these comments grieves me. I pray their eyes will be opened.
I am the same, just moved to southern UT. Doing lots of praying for the spirit to open eyes.
@ks May I lovingly ask you to pray that YOUR eyes may be opened? Opened to another perspective and way of life? Have you ever considered the thought that you don't know everything and maybe there is something for you to learn? Isaiaha 1:18 "Come let us reason together. " Is the goal to be in lock step or but that we may be one in our Lord Jesus Christ. The Pharisees thought they knew everything and they crucified Jesus. Did Jesus not use the good Samaritan as an example? If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. And he has given us this command: Who ever loves God must love his brother."
John 4:20-21
Is a relationship between God and his children personal? Do you know everything about God? Can you truly love someone if you do not know them? What did the Samaritan do?
I, too, love these videos. Thank you so much. For someone who is married to a non-member of my church, I love sharing these videos to start a discussion on equal ground. He tends to relate more with you. He says it's hard to comprehend these new ideas bc they're so different from how he was raised and the way the world thinks. So, even though he received a testimony that the BoM is true, he has difficulty accepting the lifestyle.
But to answer your question on preaching the gospel to the people in the Spirit Prison, I think it's very important to understand that we take all our worldly convictions with us. So, if you die in your sins and don't make good choices (with the full knowledge of right and wrong), then you will not be given the opportunity to live in the Celestial Kingdom. Nor will you have a desire to live there. People live their lives on Earth the way they feel the most comfortable. If you leave a praying church bc it's more fun to drink and party, you won't feel comfortable living in the higher Kingdom where the Spirit is strongest. And the guilt of knowing you lived the way you did will overshadow your happiness. And God wants us to be happy.
And even if you lived in a time/place when you never heard or learned about the Savior, but still lived a righteous life bc you knew what was right and wrong (the Holy Ghost), you will have the same opportunity to accept God just as the person who rejected the Savior's teaching.
Also, the purpose of coming to Earth was to receive a physical body and to be tested for doing what is right. Not to be baptized. The purpose of baptism is to help arm ourselves from worldly temptation and a symbol of our obedience. All ordinances are testaments of our faith and love of God over ourselves.
God is a fair and loving God. Understanding the importance of missionary work here and after death is everything. I could never believe in a God who would not accept those souls in parts of the world where Christianity is not allowed. The thought that people believe they are lost is so sad to me. This teaching makes sense and makes me feel blessed to know this truth. 😌❤
ua-cam.com/video/es54oEeOQI8/v-deo.html
Hey as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints I wouldn't disagree with you side of things. I feel like your version is just more detailed. Even the faith without works part I would agree. 100%. For the faith and works part, I believe we are saying the same thing but we are speaking a different language. Read 2 Nephi Chapter 31
To answer your first question about why teach it in the spirit world... well I would need more than this space to explain it. You have to understand how we see the big picture on our earth experience and it's how we see that it will be possible for every knee to bow and toung confess that Jesus is the christ. Not everyone will get a chance in this life to get a testimony. Also, life is about suffering and transcending above the suffering, see 2 Nephi chapter 2. Also read listen to the old talk by president Monson titled "I will not fail the nor forsake the" but I wish I had more time and space to explain it all in more detail because. Well we speak different religious languages.
Thank you for this! I appreciate your sincere perspective, and it’s greatly helpful to understand my fellow Christians understanding of similar verses…but I also know that if a member of the church were there to do a Q & A you would realize many of your answers are “apples and oranges” comparisons and miss some of the context.
For example, the discussion of the baptismal requirement and Heaven…you used the example of the man on the cross next to Jesus going to paradise…to an LDS person this is a perfectly congruent explanation of The Spirit World, which is divided into “Paradise” and “Prison”…Paradise for those who chose generally good (not perfect) lives and Prison for those who lived in rebellion. Spirits are taught the Gospel here. This is supported in many places in the New Testament (1 Peter 3:18-20, 1 Peter 4:6 to name a couple). Also, when Jesus appeared to Mary first, after his resurrection (3 days after His death) He stated “I am NOT YET ascended to my Father” John 20:17. If Heaven is defined as the place where God dwells, the Lord was not in “Heaven” during that time…
This is just one example where if a member where there they could clarify. There are many, many other points of doctrine here that would need clarifying as I think you might find there is more agreement than you realize.
The video is VERY simple so as to be easily understood, but the way you are interpreting it might not consider the deeper context a member might help with…
Thank you for your efforts! I do appreciate it and thank you for seeking to understand!
Thanks a lot Jason.
Super interesting. These videos are great.
Hi Pastor Jeff, I love and watch these videos. I am lds and have been through a faith crisis where I was able to do my own deep inner work and pondering, similar to what you experienced with the college exposure you had. My journey helped melt go of my over reliance on the arm of flesh. I feel like God wanted and needed me to let go of some so called beliefs, perspectives that were not aligned with his will for me and that kept me not really following Christ with the best motives. I realized I was too much motivated by guilt and fear. Especially fear of man. I feel like I am always being pushed by my loving Father towards a higher and better way to draw near to him.
I have been through a similar experience! I have let go of so much as I have really studied the Bible and Book of Mormon, I realized that much of our traditional beliefs don't actually match what is written in scripture. As I study the words of Christ in 3rd Nephi, I've realized that the doctrine of Christ in that book more closely matches what Jeff describes in this video than our own theology!
At a time where open discourse is vehemently opposed , where the word truth has been criticized as insensitive, I applaud this channel. As a Latter-Day Saint, I encourage the investigation of each other’s believes and testimony. A people unities in Christ is needed during this time when Satan is so rampant . God bless you all.
The reason we need to come to earth is to gain experience of having a physical body with all its appetites and passions and learning to let our spirit control our decisions, not the “natural man” see 1 Cor 2:14 and Mosiah 3:19 (Book of Mormon). This learning process of having physical bodies can help us develop Christ-like qualities that can be learned in no other way…patience, endurance, kindness, etc and give us the chance to CHOOSE the good, despite the riggings of our flesh and the weakness there.
We also believe that Gid has a Physical, tangible, body, just as Christ showed His body after He resurrected and told His disciples to touch Him as a witness that Ge wasn’t a Spirit…
I hope that is helpful! Thank you for sharing!!
Hello! I appreciate that your videos are respectful in discussing this topic. I saw that you have a lot of questions about the evidence (archeological, etc) for the Book of Mormon. I wanted to suggest to you to check out Book of Mormon Central. They have a UA-cam channel as well. They are a group of researchers covering this very topic.
I sure love your videos (I’m LDS), and have enjoyed learning about your faith perspectives as well by watching your videos.
Sorry this ended up being a bit long…I hope you don’t mind if I explain a bit. I love talking about these topics, and this seems like a good place for discussion (even though this video is now over six months old, lol). I've been enjoying your many other videos as well.
You asked about the belief that we came to earth to be tried and why that would be necessary if we could still progress after death. A big part of our belief is that our physical bodies allow us to progress in certain ways that we can’t without them, and that in some ways, post-mortality can potentially be a difficult time to make changes without a physical body. Gaining a physical body, and enduring limits of a mortal body, allows us to grow a great deal spiritually and is seen as an essential step in our spiritual maturation. In contrast to this, we believe that Satan’s rebellion was so serious (he proposed taking away our agency and forcing us to glorify him instead of God, which would have robbed us of actual spiritual growth that comes from making our own moral choices on top of being a very selfish/shocking proposal) that he was condemned to never have a physical body. Thus, he would never be able to progress in ways that those who inherit a physical body will be able to. This is what makes him “dam*ed.” Hope that’s helpful, describing a little more about that perspective.
If you find you’re interested, I would love to see you read and react to the Pearl of Great Price after finishing the BOM, which contains what we consider copies of Moses and Abraham’s accounts of basically the beginning of Genesis (it’s also fairly short compared to the Book of Mormon of Doctrine and Covenants). These are personally some of my favorite LDS scriptures to read, and they’re full of explanation for some of our beliefs about Creation and pre-mortal life. This includes the idea that our spirits are made of material that always existed (might be more Doctrine and Covenants 131:7-8…But it’s related), but was then organised into “intelligences,” and all things being made spiritually before they were physically on the earth). It also relates to some of the things you asked about here.
Another one of my favorite LDS doctrines is the concept that we have a Heavenly Mother as well as a Heavenly Father, that She is a Goddess and Priestess and He a God and Priest. That makes another aspect of passing through mortality the enabling of priesthood inheritance mechanisms (that would make us like them) that we also can’t inherit without obtaining a body. There is an essay and some past general conference talks discussing Heavenly Mother. I’d definitely be interested in seeing you explore that topic too if it interests you.
Again, love your channel, and thanks for inviting discussion! I feel like I’ve learned so much about other Christian perspectives too (and things that are different between protestant and LDS doctrine that I didn’t know!). Staying curious right along with you! :)
Best wishes.
God wouldn't have bothered giving us the 10 commandments if he didn't want us to follow them. God expects us to do our best, to follow his rules, while also knowing that we will make mistakes. So he provided a savior to make up for what we were not able to do on our own.
The 10 comments where shown how high Gods standard for eternal life is, to be in his presence. We can’t meet that standard. That’s the whole point of the cross. Jesus taking our hell punishment for those who believe the gospel, and believers receiving Christs righteousness so they can have eternal life with God
The truth is the Plan of Salvation revealed by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints makes way more sense. I respect where you’re coming from but until you read the Book of Mormon and pray about it with a sincere heart, having faith in Christ, I don’t see you being that curious or resolving your doubts with our faith. Read it and ask God if it’s true. He does answer prayers. He has answered mine.
I got an answer the Book of Mormon is incorrect. Did that come from God?
I hope we can create more dialogue like your videos. I hope that any religious person would follow your lead to learn from each other. We should learn from each other. You create a safe place for dialogue and discussion. Thank you for your great videos!
I agree with many of my latter - day saints who commented. I would like to add more thoughts to the discussion. As it says in Doctrine and Covenants 76:75 “[individuals in the terrestial kingdom] were blinded by the craftiness of men.” In this crazy world, there are many ideas that make it difficult to know what to believe. I appreciate a God that is doing all He can to help us sift through the noise between doctrines of men and the doctrine of God while He allows us the opportunity to choose :)!
It is imperative to understand that we have a finite amount of time on this Earth. Though people receive their testimonies in different ways, often people want to witness their testimony through their personal witness. Once we die, we will have that witness taught to us if we didn’t believe the Gospel while we were alive or we didn’t have the chance during this life. I appreciate the opportunity for an omnibenevolent God who will provide us opportunities to come back to Him.
Hey Pastor Jeff. I love watching your videos. They often get me thinking about my faith in Christ. As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (I agree typing the full name is a chore and saying it worse), I would have to agree with Lizzy s who comment earlier, where she said we believe the process of being born again less being one event and many events over our lifetimes. I wanted to comment regarding a question you had in the video (one I am sure my fellow members have already jumped on but just in case they didn't) which was about the need to preach the gospel in the spirit world. First off we believe Christ did this exact thing as described by Peter in 1st Peter 3:18-20 where it says Christ "...being put to death in flesh, but quickened by the spirit. By which he also went and preached unto the spirits in prison;" It then goes on to explain who these people were. One of our prophets named Joseph F. Smith received revelation in 1918 when pondering those particular verses in which he sees the events described unfolded and explains that during the 3 days between his death and resurrection Christ entered the spirit world and organized the missionary movement to teach all who would enter the spirit world. (See Doctrine and Covenants 138 for the full description of that revelation). Now the question is why preach to those in spirit prison? Well Peter explains further in the next chapter saying "For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit." (1 Peter 4:6) In other words God wants us all to be able to know that he is God and will judge us according to our works in this life time still. Further it is believed that while everyone could potentially accept the Gospel and repent, it is unlikely because we believe that the "...same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world" (Alma 34:34) Or in other words you won't be a different person in the hereafter but rather the same person with all the same inclinations just without a body until you have been resurrected, in which you will be the same person with a perfected body. In this way we believe that these people who would accept the gospel in the spirit world lived a good honorable life and would have accepted the gospel in this life had they been given the opportunity at the correct time. I hope that clears up some of our belief. If not feel to ask more and I can try to answer to the best of my knowledge.
You missed the reason to come to earth earlier in the video. It was to obtain a physical body so that we can live the Life the Father Has. He has a perfected, glorified physical body and so does Christ Now. See
Article of Faith 1 in the Pearl of Great Price. According to us everyone who has ever lived must have a full opportunity to accept Christ which is why there is missionary work in the Spirit World. Paradise is in the Spirit world another nuance you have missed. So the thief might be in Spirit Paradise with Christ where he has the chance to accept Christ before Judgement.
We don't believe works save us either, they provide evidence of our faith in Christ and our commitment to him. As we increase in faith we make covenants to represent that increased commitment.
Those videos are a very simplistic comparatively. It is much more detailed than that. We don’t disagree with what you day at 1:37, but in that becoming a child of Christ, or a believer adopted of Him through His grace, is much different than what we mean by “child of God.” Rather we teach both. Our spirits were made before this life after our heavenly parents. But we don’t automatically become a child of Christ unless we choose to follow His path.
I really enjoy what you are doing by respectfully comparing and contrasting, I love knowing what my Protestant friends believe.
As a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints with a sincere interest in comparative religion, I really appreciate your approach to representing my faith so respectfully and thoughtfully and teaching me more about your own faith. I am uplifted with each video!
As a member of The Church of Jesus Christ, I enjoyed hearing your perspective on the plan of salvation. Your explaination felt very cohesive. 😁
I’m sorry to hear that you’re in a cult
@@xander-mk4ck it is not a cult. thx.
Bro, epic video. Some thoughts I have: the reason we do have to go to earth is to make receive the saving ordinances, which you need a body for, as well as to learn through experience and most importantly, develop faith. And yeah, the goal is for 100% of people to be in the Celestial Kingdom, that's why we send missionaries out to invite everyone to come in and make the covenants. I love your videos, it's so cool to hear a protestant talk about this church without exuding ridiculous amounts of contempt and impatience.
Good job pastor!
I do think many in the Mormon Churches are truly Christians and following Christ. It is important to keep dialogue open to try to understand each other better. I have a Desr Mormon friend and I do not doubt her Salvation.
I just recently found your channel, and I think you are so cool!!!
Thank you!!
I'm extremely intrigued by the idea that not all humans are children of God. Having been created by Him, we are inherently His. It is only OUR sin that takes us away from His presence, not the sin of a distant ancestor. To answer your question about why come to Earth in the first place, it goes all the way back to the pre Earth life when Heavenly Father presented his eternal plan to us. He, having been perfected with a body of flesh and bone let us know there was a way to become like Him, to receive the light He has for us through His Son. Hence we came to Earth to receive a body and to grow in faith and return the Heavenly family to its whole since the fracture caused by Satan's rebellion.
The short answer is that we believe our bodies are a further emulation of Heavenly Father and to be like Him, we need a physical body to be resurrected to. I hope that answers your question
I won't speak for the Pastor on this video, but coming from a similar Christian background, I'd say that we are not children of God because we are creations of His, not offspring of His. Meaning, we don't have the same nature. He is of a different nature than us. It's true that when a person is saved, they are 'inherently' His, but there are moments in scripture when Jesus calls people of a different father, the Devil. They weren't of the family of God. There's more, but hopefully, that helps give a little more context to the theology, but again, I'm not speaking for the Pastor in the video, we don't know each other ;)
Yeah I can’t agree with the idea that all humans are not children of God because of John 3:16. It doesn’t say in there that God came to just save a few people, he came to save the world.
The Bible teaches that we are all created by God, but by nature we are children of wrath. Through faith, we are given the right to become children of God!
@@maddyrazz5747 our divine nature is separate from our spiritual nature. We decide what wolf to feed, essentially.
@@barendse1 I have 2 pushbacks, from an LDS perspective that I want to run by you, regarding your comment: the first is on being creations of God, but not His actual children. From our perspective, we'd argue... meh, you're not totally wrong. In fact, we believe that all of us are eternal in nature and our existences pre-date God's plan for earth. But we would also say that being created by Him inherently defines Him as our father and us as His children. I simplified example might be Pinocchio: the puppet was obviously not biologically created by Geppetto, but because it was his creation, Pinocchio was his son and referred to him as his father.
The second item is your reference to having a separate nature than God. We believe that, through His gospel and commandments, we have the potential to inherit His nature. The simple example here is seen in our own children. My youngest son is 8 years old and DEFINITELY doesn't have my nature; that boy wants to be a UA-camr (as they all seem to these days) and doesn't have the first thought of adult responsibilities, accountability, or really anything outside of his 8 year old bubble. But through training and learning and growth and hopefully giving him the right dose of wisdom, my son has the potential to be a great and honorable man, and have that nature I now enjoy!
Your thoughts?
I think the phrases “creations” and “children” are used interchangeably for a high level overview purpose, but the Book of Mormon teaches specifically that we become the sons and daughters of Christ upon accepting Him and committing to His gospel. So we are in agreement here actually.
I personally feel this talk by Brad Wilcox does pretty well explaining the LDS perspective on the Grace Vs. Works dilemma (see link below).
My grandmother was born Catholic in Southern France and my Grandpa a Lutheran from Germany. They both converted to the LDS church, married in the temple and passed the LDS tradition at least through to my generation. I am familiar with general Christian theology of the more major denominations. I've attended the Catholic Church but I'm also LDS. I have profound respect for the many previous biblical prophets along with modern pastors, ministers and bishops. I also am humbled reading about the many reformers (such as John Calvin, John Knox and Martin Luther) in history that risked their lives for the sake of preserving the Bible and dying for their convictions in Christ. Your channel really is fascinating for me to watch. I fully support your approach to this topic. I wish more people in any background or conviction would approach topics in this manner. Living in this part of the world's history, I hope to see a more firm uniting of Christianity against the increasing storms all around us (as biblically prophesied). Another thing I'd like to mention... as I continue to study the doctrine of the restoration held with the LDS Church, I become more convinced that Christ still speaks to us today and does so very similar to how demonstrated in the New Testament... parables (or, I guess, parable of sorts). Gods communication is intentionally simple for any to understand but also layered and designed so that the an honest man can be blessed to discover more deeper truths in the same communication to the person that truly searches and works for it. I believe God to be my Literal and Spiritual Father (Creator). This belief, to me, doesn't take away any of his Holiness or Perfection. I don't believe it lessens him in any way, rather, it demonstrates a deeper connection with him and a greater responsibility to give thanks and gratitude (any small amount of gratitude I can give him for sending his Son Jesus Christ to die for all mankind) by doing my best to obey him and repent. I have children I know I love them with the limited finite love a man can have for his children which seems to feel like allot of love. How much more love does our Father in Heaven have for all of us, his children? It's truly incomprehensible.
speeches.byu.edu/talks/brad-wilcox/his-grace-is-sufficient/
Hi Jeff. I wanted to take a moment to see if I could answer your question about why we have to come to this earth to learn about and accept God. It is our belief, in the LDS faith, that we came here to show that we would follow Him. However, the second part of that "test" is to see if we will follow Him after having forgotten him. There are so many reasons in this life to believe in Him, but there are also reasons not to believe. That is the test. We are to learn and act on the knowledge and wisdom we acquire here. In our belief, we lived with and loved God and his Son in the life before birth. Most of us accepted him, which is why we are here, and we agreed to come, even knowing that we would forget, we would struggle, would be tempted, and have pain. We did it because of the promise of the great blessings that would come if we followed through with his plan. Thank you so much for your videos. They are great.
Love your videos, and love the way you respectfully contrast the differences. I have to say, your description of God and our relationship to him ( according to your faith) is heartbreaking! So grateful to know we are children of God who loves us so much.
I was somewhat surprised by that declaration as well, as we do believe in premortal life and that every living soul past, present, and future are God's literal spirit children. But in a sense we are on the same page still, just speaking a different language. We believe in being born again which makes us new creators in Christ. That's why we are all converts, no matter if we were born in the covenant or if we found the gospel later in life, we must all be converted and discover our own intimate relationship with Jesus Christ, our Savior and Redeemer. It brought this BOM passage to mind:
And now, because of the covenant which ye have made ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters.
8 And under this head ye are made free, and there is no other head whereby ye can be made free. There is no other name given whereby salvation cometh; therefore, I would that ye should take upon you the name of Christ, all you that have entered into the covenant with God that ye should be obedient unto the end of your lives.
Mosiah 5:7-8
www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/mosiah/5?id=p7-p8&lang=eng#p7
@6:30 the Justification for that scripture is 1 Peter 4:6. Christ preached the gospel to them that were dead physically and not just spiritually. The spiritual realm is here on Earth by the way.
Love this channel! Love to hear what similar beliefs we have!
I think one thing that may be misinterpreted is that it is always required to do the saving ordinances (baptism etc.) to get to the Celestial Kingdom. An example of this is Alvin Smith, Joseph Smith's oldest brother, who died before the power of baptism was restored. Joseph feared that Alvin, who had not been baptised, would not be in the Celestial Kingdom. However, Joseph saw a vision where he saw Alvin in the Celestial Kingdom. He was confused, but the Lord explained that he had judged Alvin based on his heart and not his actions. Alvin did not get baptised, but was accepted in God's presence because Alvin loved God with all his heart to the best of his ability.
The point of the saving ordinances is to bring us closer to God in this life and beyond. If you can do these things, then we recommend doing the rituals, since they bring you closer to Christ. If someone cannot however, God will judge the person on the person's relationship with God, which is a belief of yours for all people. We agree that a relationship with God of holiness and repentance is incredibly incredibly important. We also believe, however, that certain rituals like baptism can bring blessings and help us serve God and people around.
Love the content, keep doing this! More understanding between our faiths is truly what God wants, I believe! Have a good day.
Then why would we need baptism for the dead? If God judges the people according to their heart?
You have just unknowingly done away with the need for baptism of the dead. Perhaps you are misinterpreting Joseph Smiths vision...
Good video, and good summary of your own view of the Plan of Salvation. I liked the narrative you gave. It sounds plausible, like something I could accept if I were considering traditional Christianity. We Latter-day Saints would agree that people are searching to fill a hole in their lives, and that this needs to be filled with God. Because we can't remember our pre-earth life, we are pretty much just as lost as if we didn't have a pre-earth life. It's interesting to think about the different self-concepts that our different belief systems can create, however. In mine, I do feel some connection to who I was before. If I'm feeling down on life, I sometimes remind myself that I chose to be here, and that all this is for my progression. There are some positive aspects to that. With yours, I can see a kind of beauty in just accepting that you were created for relationship with God -- and that's it.
So first point, we believe that the natural man is an enemy to God. When we say that everyone is a child of God we mean it in a very literal way. We do not believe everyone is a child of God In the covenant/adopted sense as described in the New testament, like most Christians we believe that only through Christ we can become a child of God in that sense. We don't actually contradict the rest of Christianity on this issue, we are talking about something else entirely when we say "everyone is a child of God." It is a language thing.
So I know the video flat out said God created us to see if we would follow his will, but that isn't the most accurate, the goal, which is also mentioned in the video, is to help us become more like him.
Regarding the Thief on the Cross, we don't believe that paradise referred to "Heaven" as in where we go after Judgement day, but to the Spirit world which will be mentioned later on in the video.
The Gospel being presented in the afterlife is Straight out of the Bible, but as to why come to earth, its quite simple, we need to experience mortality in order to become like God, also if the earth is never created and we are never sent here there is no need for the Gospel. The preaching in the Spirit world isn't a second chance it is a first chance. We are aware that this will increase the number of humans in the celestial kingdom, but it won't be 100% of people. Someone who ends up in the telestial kingdom would not be happy in any other kingdom, same with those in the terrestrial kingdom and celestial kingdom.
Try listening to "His Grace is Sufficient" by Brad Wilcox, it isn't perfect nor it is the best translation of our beliefs to the rest of Christianity, but it is good enough. We believe in Salvation/Exaltation only through the Grace of Jesus Christ, and through no works of our own. We don't earn heaven. Like it seems like you don't understand what we believe about grace, we believe the same thing, we just talk about things different.
Well said. I also recommended the book "His Grace is Sufficient " !!!
But to be specific, don't you have to earn your particular level of heaven?
@@janet-Spirit_of_the_Living_God No, though I can see how it would seem that way. Regardless of the degree of glory obtained the person only received it through the merits, blood, and grace of Jesus Christ. They didn't earn any of it whatsoever in any possible way to interpret "earn."
However, everyone will have the relationship with God that they desire. God is not a tyrant who won't force us. What kind of relationship/how close to God we want to be is determined by how much Christ changed us.
The Talk/sermon his Grace is sufficient by Brad Wilcox is a good place to start, but I have found he doesn't explain things in a way that helps most other Christians understand, and that he misunderstands what most born again Christians believe.
This has been a miscommunication between The Church and Evangelical Christians that has been addressed by several interfaith organizations. And I'm pretty sure it still took them several conferences and years of communication to figure out that on the grace thing, we believe the same thing. The multiple degrees of glory thing doesn't change that.
@@janet-Spirit_of_the_Living_God Sorry for the double reply I think I know a story that might help explain it.
Seeing that she was still confused, I took a piece of paper and drew two dots-one at the top representing God and one at the bottom representing us. I then said, “Go ahead. Draw the line. How much is our part? How much is Christ’s part?”
She went right to the center of the page and began to draw a line. Then, considering what we had been speaking about, she went to the bottom of the page and drew a line just above the bottom dot.
I said, “Wrong.”
She said, “I knew it was higher. I should have just drawn it, because I knew it.”
I said, “No. The truth is, there is no line. Jesus filled the whole space. He paid our debt in full. He didn’t pay it all except for a few coins. He paid it all. It is finished.”
-Brad Wilcox, "His Grace is Sufficient"
This is the case regardless of the degree of Glory.
@@justiningham187 Thanks for that. I have watched the Brad Wilcox video. I guess his understanding (as indicated in the dot story) is not necessarily the church's teaching, from what I've heard recently. I also commented on his video that the analogy of the piano lessons doesn't work because some people are gifted without needing to practice. We don't have to practice to be saved, that would be the opposite of receiving salvation as a gift. I don't understand why the word "gift" is so hard to understand? A gift is an unearned favor. It's a gift - not earned for good behavior. Yes, I can understand how we might all experience our God-relationships differently, but we're all saved by grace, a free gift. Why would the LDS "degrees of glory" be designed as "degrees" or "levels" if not to induce more goodly behavior? It's a mystery to me why man insists to complicate the simple message of the gospel. We get so tied up in human machinations that we lose out on the relationship altogether!
Hi Pastor, Thank you for sharing this comparison. I enjoyed being able to better understand the difference between these two faiths. As you talked, one question came to my mind and I might suggest this as a future comparison video. What do these faiths teach about the state of someone who never had the opportunity to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ before they died? For example, there are many individuals across the world's history that have never met a Christian and there are many children who have died before being able to accept Jesus Christ. What would be the state of their souls?
Are you asking what the LDS church teaches?
I am somewhat familiar with the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, but not familiar with what other Christians belive on the subject. I appreciated the Pastor's way of outlining the similarities and differences.
@@davidnelson6889 oh I gotcha. Yeah, those are some questions I've had a well. I know some faith believe that those people are just bound for hell. I always hope that other churches believe in a more loving, merciful God than one that punishes ignorance, but I struggle to find any. I'd be curious to know Jeff's position as well.
Hello Saints, another banger video! I'm incredibly excited for you to read the Book of Mormon and to see your video, and I encourage you to pray to God with sincerity to know if it is true or false, which is the invitation given by the prophet Moroni at the end of the book. I am a member of the LDS church and I am very pleased with all of your content, and I always find myself wishing I could give you my take on a lot of the controversial church history. I can only imagine the spiritual growth in both of us if I had to opportunity to have open verbal discourse with you. It would be an honor, but alas... I hope your journey along this path continues to strengthen your relationship with Christ and bring people to Christianity, LDS or not! Loving Christ and each other is what is most important.
Love your fair approach to comparing the differences of doctrine. You are doing a great job of trying to get it direct from the source and not just regurgitating interpretations of LDS doctrines from other Christians. I also love that you acknowledge that LDS members do indeed claim the identity of Christian and that it's offensive to us to say we're not disciples of Christ. But it is also fair and correct that the differences of beliefs are significant and do change the emphasis of our beliefs greatly.
I really appreciate your channel. As an lds member this has been super helpful learning the similarities and distinctions between our religions. And at the end of the day, it’s about Jesus Christ who is our common denominator. While we may have differences in theology, we are united in choosing to follow Him, which is a good thing. Keep on keeping on.
Hi Pastor Jeff. I really enjoy watching your presentations. They are very thought provoking and faith building … but one question, if someone has different points of view, like you present here, what do you teach and recommend a person does to know the truth? I have my beliefs and personal revelation plays a great part of that, but I was wondering what you think. - THANKS!!
I can't speak for Jeff, but I've noticed that the predominant response from other Christians is that we learn to accept Christ without the weight of a lot of LDS beliefs. It would seem they believe we (LDS) have too many rules and expectations, and that we mainly just need to accept Christ and have faith and that's pretty much all you need.
@ Tadd Schwendiman - I would say the simple answer to your question is to read the Bible. It is God’s word and His word is truth. Also, Jesus is the word in flesh. So, pay attention to what Jesus says - what things does He emphasize and not emphasize.
Love your videos. Echoing a few other voices I've heard. The videos you are reacting to are great videos, and aren't incorrect, but they don't paint a full picture. I'd love to see you having discussions with more scholarly members of the church. . A few would I would have in mind and would love to see would be "Don't miss this" or "Taylor and Tyler" or "Thoughtful faith" I've seen a few recommendations for you to talk with Midnight Mormons too. But I feel like their entertainment is more focused on satire about the church and politics, and I don't think that's really the vibe you're looking for. I'm sure they're great guys, but your channel seems more reverent, and theirs more satirical. Both can be good but weird when combined. Also they go into some more of what is considered "deep doctrine" and that stuff isn't always considered doctrinal or canonical by official church resources.
I would love a video where you can explain more of your beliefs around our relationship to God. From what I am gathering in your videos so far I get the impression that your belief is that we exist to love and worship God but I am not clear on what eternity in heaven would be like. I am having a hard time wrapping my head around it and I would love to learn more
Super interesting bc I think another difference is that we see the atonement as infinite, as in it applied fully to those born before Christ as well. Sacrifices were just another manifestation of the covenant the way baptism is. Also, how do you balance the covenant relationship with a lack of action? How is it a covenant if we don't have to take part in it?
The attainment is limited…to all who believe the gospel (put faith in Christ) those who don’t believe do not receive grace. John 3:36. Covenants don’t grant eternal life. Faith in Jesus does. People then live wanting to obey Jesus BECAUSE they are born again and have received eternal life
I would push back a little bit with your statement about Baptism. I think if you combined Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Assyian Christians, and even some high Chirch protestants like confessional Lutherans, you would find that the majority of the rest of Christianity does believe Baptism saves you. At least you a certain extent. Other than that, really enjoyed the comparison of an Evangelical Proteestant and Latter Day Saint view on this topic!,
I always wonder "what kind of baptism" - What did John the baptist say? "I baptize you with water but he who comes after me will baptize you with fire and the Holy Spirit" Water baptism is for repentence, that is John's baptism - a work of man if you will. Holy Spirit baptism is for salvation, a work of God.
@@allieooop3923 I assumed that when he said it in another video, but when he repeated it this time I thought I might as well make my thoughts known. Also, that is true about Roman Catholicism. Baptism for the dead is unique to the Latter-Day Saint movement as far as I know.
He mentioned in a comment in another video that when he talks aboutn "the rest of Christianity" he is really focused on American Protestant Christianity.
@@brettmajeske3525 Ok, that makes sense then.
@@matthayes533 Jesus also taught, except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven. Christ showed us the importance of being baptised by being baptised Himself. If Christ did it, so must we. Simple.
Learning to apply the Atonement in depth. This is the foundation of the gospel. This brings true peace into our lives. When we truly believe and have faith in our Savior Jesus Christ.
Hi Pastor Jeff, I am LDS, and have been following along on some of your vids.
I just watched your video on the pre-existence and the plan of salvation.
First of all I’ve learned that all the gospel principles and doctrines are connected to each other and to pick one out and briefly describe and share a viewpoint without discussing the rest of the gospel, which is enormous, doesn’t do the topic you’re discussing the full justice or understanding it deserves.
One point I noticed was that you came to the conclusion, from discussing with other members of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints, that progress between the different kingdoms is not possible.
This is not necessarily so as many of our general authorities, leaders of our church, have differing opinions on progression whether it’s possible or not. (Personally, I hope progress IS possible.)
My understanding is that the only kingdom one cannot progress out of is the kingdom of outer darkness.
Secondly, you mentioned that if humanity does not perform those ordinances, like baptism etc. that that individual cannot receive exaltation in a kingdom of glory.
This is also not necessarily true in that because of Christ’s atonement for our sins, what ever level of faithfulness or ordinance participation we attain here in mortality, Christs atonement makes up the balance of what is needed for that individual to attain the highest degree of glory based on our faithfulness.
This is why Christ, himself, forgave the thief on the cross and told him they would be together in paradise. Christ saw into that thief’s heart and knew his repentance was sincere and worthy of that graceful indulgence.
Thirdly, The need to come to earth is to gain a physical body and endure mortal experiences to become more like our father in heaven and Jesus Christ.
It is an indication of our Heavenly Fathers unconditional love for his children that those who haven’t heard or didn’t accept the gospel and mortality have a chance to accept it after they die. (Also, and most importantly, that Heavenly Father sent his son as a sacrifice for our sins that we may read have the opportunity to return to Him. For, without this sacrifice from our loving Heavenly Father, we would be condemned eternally to death and hell, no matter what we did.) (this is also why I believe there may be progress between the kingdoms of glory I mentioned before.)
Anyone, please comment if I erred n my understanding. Thanks, Marty
As a non-denominational Christian, I am so thankful that Jesus doesn’t make salvation possible through what we do, but that He IS salvation! The good news is that I am reconciled to God and at peace with Him through placing my faith in Jesus. It’s so simple and beautiful.
Hi Maddy! You made a great comment, and I just wanted to clarify that, as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, we also don't believe that our salvation comes from our own works.😊 While we do talk a lot about "faith without world is dead" the foundation of that discussion is faith. We believe that salvation is freely given to ALL who accept Christ (ironically, to accept is an action and requires at least that much work to believe it). For us, we believe that faith, and accepting Christ, is the first step and that, "to whom much is given, much is required." When we say works, our main focus is in bringing others to Christ through missionary work, serving each other, and being good examples.
You might think, when an LDS member talks about works, they are referring to temple work; and you're partly right. Do you recall the parable of the talents? Each person was given a certain start amount of talents and later showed how they expanded on it. For us, the gift of salvation is that original talent allotment, and it's fantastic! But for us, the question becomes, "because I'm so grateful for this, how can I really prove and expand on my appreciation?" We can cherish the gift and just hold it, but we can also do more on our part. Because we believe that we are a family under God, and that we all want that family to enjoy the gospel together, our work in the temple is all about bringing that family together! In this way, we expand on Christ's gift to us exponentially in making it a family affair, not just an individual thing.
May I ask...! Genuine and heartfelt question. What does your faith in Christ look like? How would you explain or describe it?
@@DannyAGray Thanks for your comment! To start, our definitions of salvation are different. The Bible teaches that naturally, we are enemies to God and because God is just, we deserve eternal punishment for our sins. By repenting and placing faith in Jesus, we are saved and become citizens of heaven. A true Christian cannot lose this salvation because they did nothing to earn it. The Bible also teaches that there is one heaven and one hell and no way of bridging that gap after death. So all mankind is not promised a resurrection, only those who put their faith in Jesus. The LDS definition of exaltation is more so along the lines of what salvation is in the Bible. I will spend eternity in the presence of God only because of Jesus’ righteousness. As far as works, the Bible is clear that faith without works is dead! However, those works show that we have a true, saving faith. I know it’s typical for a lot of mainstream Christians to say they have faith in God and then go on living like the rest of the world and do nothing to show their faith - the Bible condemns this! We are to work OUT our salvation and work from a place of security. None of my works justify me though. The epistles and gospels repeatedly talk about how God looks at our works like filthy rags. Martin Luther says “The most damnable and pernicious heresy to ever plague the mind of man is that he can somehow make himself good enough to dwell with a holy God.” So take away the temple - do you still get to spend eternity with God and Jesus?
@@LuxuryPads90 It’s hard to put into words! My faith is not something that is emotions based because our heart deceives us, instead it’s based on the truth in the Bible. So I don’t need to have an emotional experience reading Scripture or cry during a worship song to know that Jesus is my Savior. My emotions will tell me that Jesus is far from me, that God doesn’t hear my prayers, etc. But in the Bible Jesus says He will never leave me or forsake me and that He has a place prepared for me. As far as works, because I have experienced His saving grace, I love serving and loving others like He commands. I know that these works do not impress Him, but I believe they make Him smile! I strive to not take His grace in vain because His sacrifice was so great.
@@maddyrazz5747 I'll answer your question at the end, and then, if you'll permit me, I have a question for you.
You asked if I would still get to spend eternity with God and Jesus without the temple. My answer, and the answer of the LDS faith, is actually a resounding YES! That may surprise you, but we actually don't believe the temple is necessary for salvation through Christ for us as individuals.
As you maybe aware, the LDS faith has a different view of heaven and hell. In fact, we believe that the overwhelming majority of souls will be in heaven, and that hell (what we call Outer Darkness) is really only for a very small few. I could break down our idea of heaven if you'd like, or I can refer you to some great videos. But suffice it to say we think even some pretty bad people will be in some form of heaven. We believe this because we believe that most people actually don't have an understanding of Christ and his gospel, and we believe they'll have the opportunity to be taught that gospel and to accept Christ.
For us, this is where the bulk of the necessity of temples comes from. Because we believe that families can be together forever, temples are used to bind families together in a sealing ceremony. But more than that, we believe that Christ gave the church the right priesthood keys to reach through the veil of heaven for our ancestors. We take this belief from 2 sources: first, Elijah who, nevar he ascended to heaven without dying, is a prophet of God on both sides; and second, from Christ's interaction with his disciples in Matthew 16:19, giving them power to affect things in earth and in heaven.
With all that in mind, and with the understanding that we believe - for staters - that baptism is essential for accepting Christ as our savior, we perform vicarious baptism for our ancestors in the temple. In the other side of the veil (after people die) we believe that everyone will be taught the gospel of Jesus Christ, and given the opportunity to accept the baptism that is performed for them. We also perform other ordinances for them (as mentioned, the sealing ceremony) to seal the entire human family together!
So while we don't believe we need temples for our own salvation, we believe we need it for our loved ones who didn't have the chance to accept Christ while they were alive.
This brings me to my question for you:
What happens - in your view - to people who were never taught the gospel, or never heard of Jesus, after they die? What happens to babies or small children who die when they are too young to understand the gospel or who aren't old enough to understand what it means to accept Christ? What happens to people who die who, by life's circumstances or traditions of their upbringing, simply don't understand Christianity?
Thanks for the discussion.
I’m sure I’m not the 1st to say it, but to the question “what’s the point if the gospel will be preached in the spirit world”
One of the main reasons we come to the earth is to gain a physical body as our father in heaven has.
There are other reasons that answer that question but this is the thing I think any LDS member would offer up 1st.
Really loving this series because it is great to hear what the rest of Christianity has in common beyond Christ is our savior.
My question to you is: If Heavenly Mother and Heavenly Father have a physical body, then why do they make children with spiritual bodies? And why exactly would we need a physical body in heaven?
@@windywithachanceofsunshine5219 I honestly wouldn’t have a good answer as to why we would “need” a body in heaven.
I believe it comes down to the belief that Heavenly Father has a body and our goal is to reconcile ourselves with him through the atonement of his son Jesus Christ and become like them. We believe Christ and Heavenly Father are two separate beings yet 100% in step with one another. They share the same goals, vision, hopes and desire for us. As such we aspire to share that same type of unity with them.
Being has Christ was resurrected with his physical body perfected, it stands to reason in my mind that we would also be resurrected with bodies perfected to return to our father’s presence.
As to why our Heavenly Parents had children of spirit instead of physical bodies, the short answer again is I’d have no clue. I would speculate it’s just part of his plan to help us to become like him and his Only Begotten.
However those are both fascinating questions and I feel I will have a great experience investigating those further.
@@nathanchurch3442 Where in the bible does it say that God had a body of flesh and bones? It doesn't because God reveals many, many times in the bible that He is spirit.
Becoming like God, His image and likeness means to be loving, pure and holy. That is the whole of God. The human we experienced was God humbling Himself and becoming incarnate so that we could experience Jesus - God as 100% divine and 100% human. Jesus was not another person. He was God.
Peace be with you!
@@windywithachanceofsunshine5219 thank you for your testimony of your faith.
Nathan, Please do not take this as an attack. That is not my intention.
The bible tells us so many times that God the Father is a spirit. NO one saw the face of God in scripture. That is why God was always "present" in the burning bush, the wind, a dark cloud when they traveled, etc. We were made in his "image", the image of pure love. We do not need a physical body except to live on earth. That is why God became incarnate as Jesus to live on earth. We are also told that we will have bodies like the angels (spiritual) in the afterlife.
I also posed to another LDS the question of why Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother, if you believe they have bodies of flesh and bone, create spirit children? Wouldn't they create physical bodied children?
Catholic dogma makes so much sense. Not only can it all be proven but it is logical. I have yet to find anything in Mormon doctrine that makes sense and too much of it has too many loopholes.
Christians believe that Jesus is 100% God. Mormons do not. Therefore, we do not believe in the same Christ. How can that be a common thread between us if we do not believe that Jesus is not the same? We also do not agree on heaven, baptism, and so many other points. I fail to see things in common.
Peace be with you!
Thank you for your videos! I am so impressed with your humility and kindness. I was LDS for over 40 years. I left 5 years ago, after a 10 year faith journey. The part (in this video) about worshipping religion really hit home for me. Speaking from experience, that is a huge problem in Mormonism. I could write may paragraphs about that topic, but I do have a question for you.
If God is perfect, and everything He makes is perfect, then why did we need to come to earth in the first place? If it was not to gain experience and be like Him, then what is the meaning of our earthly existence? Why couldn't He over power Satan and keep us free of sin? Why would He make it so that we need a saviour?
Most of Mormonism makes no sense to me now that I have deconstructed the dogma, however, their belief in the meaning of life does make more sense than what you presented here.
I don't know what or who made you think that coming to earth wasn't to gain experience, but we are here to gain experience.
The way I like to explain this is with parents and their child, or a professor and his student.
The parents has a baby, innocent, pure, and without any knowledge except basic body functions. It's the parent's job to teach them how to be a good human being. They're to discipline, encourage, and love their child so that when the child grows up, they'll be the best person they can possibly be.
We go to school. Imagine that you're studying something you know absolutely 0 things about that will one day be your career. It's the professor's job to teach you about the things you don't know yet and how to apply it, so that when you go out into the work field, you know how to do your job
We are God's little babies that he has to teach to be good people so that when we're divine beings ourselves, we'll be good Gods. We're his little students that need to learn how to be good people, and good Gods.
And the overpowering Satan will happen. But not right now. "there must be opposition in all things" You can't build muscle if you don't work it out and tear it first. Remember Adam and Eve. When they were in the garden, there was no death, no disease, no problems. But there was also no growth. No true happiness, because they knew no sorrow. We need Satan here today so that we can be tempted. And it's your choice whether you give into that temptation or not.
This also falls under the lil part where God will NOT EVER take away your agency. If God took away Satan, he'd take away our ability to choose right from wrong because there would only be right. There wouldn't be any temptation. There would be no trials, no learning, no growth.
Sorry for the essay. I did my best to keep it as brief as possible. I love the questions you asked. They're one of my favorite topics and I love sharing what I've learned about it
Hey my dad introduced me to your channel and it's been really interesting hearing your view on some of the LDS teachings, especially here on the Plan of Salvation. I'm just playing catch up on a lot of your videos so my comment is coming a little late here on this video but I just wanted to respond with one thing you had a question with. You mentioned that you were unsure of the point of coming to the Earth if people also have an opportunity to hear and accept Christ's Atonement in the next life before we are judged and sent to a kingdom of Glory. Firstly we believe that one of the main purposes to coming to Earth is to obtain a physical body like we believe our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have in order to become more like them. (albeit there's are resurrected perfect and immortal bodies which we will receive after our own resurrection.) But we also believe that while we are here on Earth it is easier to progress within the Lord's gospel and perform the saving ordinances within the temples. Now because we believe that our Heavenly Father is all loving to his children and has a perfect plan of salvation to save and bring eternal life and happiness to as many of his children as possible then it only makes sense that there are many opportunities for his children to turn towards Him and accept his Gospel whether that be in this life or the next. Also those who come unto him here act as teachers as missionaries essentially in the Spirit World to all those who did not have a chance to hear the Gospel or did hear it and did not accept it on Earth just like the video says. This reminds me a lot of the parable of the vineyard workers in Matthew 20 in which the master of the field hires the workers at various times of the day but they all end up receiving the same wages at the end. When those that worked the full day (or let's say those that were born into the LDS church and lived its teachings their whole lives) complained to the landowner for receiving the same rewards as those who worked less hours than them (converts to the LDS faith in this life or the spirit world) the land owner responds with "Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or are you envious because I am generous?” Our whole point is to be like our Heavenly Father and obtain all that he has with as many of our brothers and sisters as possible so to me it makes sense that there are many opportunities for people to be saved. Anyway that was just my thoughts on that part and would love to hear more on what you think of that. Keep making awesome videos though, I really appreciate the work you are doing!
Great video on an interesting topic! I'm so grateful for these videos because it helps me understand my brothers and sisters of other faiths better! I love talking about religion with other Christians. We need each other, we're all part of the body of Christ!
@6:40 why bother sending us- this is a deap question, but I would suggest that even if people don't have the gospel people are blessed with the light of Christ or the spirit even if they don't know what it is. Our culture calls it a conscience. We will be judged according to the light we have.
and won't most people end up in the celestial kingdom?
Yes! Joseph Smith was considered radical at his time because this doctrine saves "too many" of heavenly father's children. I am thankful for a doctrine so full of God's grace and love.
I'm not an expert. I've just been reading a few LDS theology books recently (but am not LDS).
God the Father and Jesus Christ have bodies of "flesh and bone" (glorified bodies, contrasted with corruptible bodies of "flesh and blood"). Spirits need to become embodied, forget what they knew about God ("going through the veil"), so that they can encounter God through faith, be resurrected and receive glorified bodies. So why embodiment? So that we can become like Jesus and God the Father with glorified bodies. Accepting the gospel without going through life -- learning, being saved, being sanctified -- wouldn't make us sufficiently like Christ.
It's a little tricky, because in the LDS there is no strong distinction between spirit and matter. Rather, they are degrees of the same eternal "stuff," from less refined to more refined. A glorified body, like what God has, is the most perfect. Source Terryl Givens's "Wrestling the Angel"
Nice job, especially considering that you aren’t lds.
I am interested in you view on inclusivism vs exclusivism and in modern Christianity. I enjoy listening to you and wish all people could try to understand each others beliefs in a way of curiosity and way to appreciate others.
I find it absolutely amazing how similar the beliefs between these two sects are. What an amazing conversation for Christians to understand LDS beliefs and LDS to understand Christians. Thank you for your ministry, Pastor Jeff.
@KaeCee Reed I think that's what bridge building looks like!
Every time you explain something from your perspective, that you say is different, I'm like, yes! We believe that too! I think we have even more in common than we realize!
Hey, member of the Church Of Jesus Christ LDS here, I noticed something in most of your videos..... I actually agree with your versions of things you tend to disagree with, and I am pretty sure the Church does as well, The Major difference I noticed is not A Difference In Beliefs on certain topics, But a difference in Understanding Of Scriptural Context, If I were to sit face to face with you as you explain things I would agree with your understanding really, The major difference is Context.... by this I am saying we are both looking at a 6 or a 9 but the difference is perspectives and angles of the same Scriptures, and that is why I would invite you to perhaps consider sitting down with the church Scholars and perhaps have a nice friendly discussion about Why we say it is a 9, and why you would say it is a 6, In a nice and respectful way. I really trust you got that one done, You have Christlike attributes that are very Awesome!!!! Keep on leading by example, Being Kind and more like Jesus Christ was kind and loving.
@@Yocarisfastlike You know I used to say the same thing, I so understand you right now. Either way may I just remind you on what's important, Your path back to Heavenly Father, if you feel like others aren't doing what you think they should be doing you can always disagree and that's fine, heck you can even go as far as calling them "Satan Worshippers" if that floats your boat, it won't change anything really😊, I think we should focus on Our Own Path, the prick in our own eyes before we worry about the prick in other peoples eyes as Jesus Christ himself said. Thanks for commenting Your Opinion. Have a wonderful day bro, you seem to be an open minded and awesome guy, shalom
I just found this channel a few days ago. I am loving it! I've tried to raise my children to understand other religions, and love other religions for what we have in common. I do have a question for you protestants, a clarification. In the video it says that "When God created all thing, he created them good. But there were some angels that rebelled and sin entered into existence (WHICH WE BELIEVE, ABOUT THE REBELLION). . . . and that is where the enemy of God came in a deceived Adam and Eve." My confusion is that earlier in the video it said that we did not live with God before this existence, and that Adam had the life of God breathed into him. My confusion is who are the angels that rebelled against God, and then tempted Adam if there was no life until Adam.
Just as a clarification on the LDS end, we believe that we did live in heaven before, as stated, and there was a spiritual war in Heaven where Satan lead away a third of the children of God, and yes, they (more specifically Satan) are continually trying to bring us down, and tempt us to do wrong.
Thank you for reading and responding. I love this channel and the open communication that it brings!
Great to hear your responses to the Plan of Salvation and to hear your articulation of the Gospel as well.
Re: Children of God - I've already commented on this a bit in past video comments; but when you think about the attributes of God which describe Him in relation to us we use words like Loving, Kind, Generous, Merciful, Compassionate...etc... these perfectly describe what a father should be. He did not intend for the title of Father to be one of symbolism only. Of all the titles He could have chosen to favor, Father is the most noble.
Re: The thief - This is in reference to the Spirit world. The place where spirits wait until they are resurrected. The thief did indeed go to spirit paradise, instead of spirit prison. spirit paradise is not Heaven; but there you do gain rest from the physical woes of the world. So even if he wasn't baptised (though he actually could have been, who knows?) he would still go to spirit paradise if he desired to be a righteous person and follow Jesus Christ.
Re: Learning - Why experience a physical existence when we can also learn as spirits? Think of it with this question: Why do I need to actually drive a car when I can learn how to drive it on paper? Remember that God has a body of flesh and bones like man; but His body is perfected, and He is immortal. To become more like Him we also need the experiences of a physical body. You can still learn and still repent and change as a spirit; but learning what you learn in a physical body cannot be completely understood as just a spirit. Because of the limitations a spirit has it will be more difficult to change, and those whose hearts were hard on earth will still have hard hearts as spirits.
Re: Your Gospel explanation - In the explanation of your Gospel you mention spirits (or at least angels) who existed with God before Adam and Eve, and that one (or more) rebelled against God and fell (Lucifer). This is the pre-mortal existence we (Latter-Day Saints) speak of. It's just more fleshed out for us with modern revelation. The majority of the rest of your explanation sounds very much like what we believe, just using slightly different vernacular at times. You are correct that if we truly have faith then our works will be good works. The issue I have in saying works are not needed for salvation is that you get religions which lean far enough in that direction until they believe it is truly our works alone which will clear our path to Heaven. And so though it is true that it is only through Jesus Christ that we are saved, works must accompany our faith, or else our faith is dead, leaving us as not one of Christ's disciples, and therefore not full partakers of Jesus Christ's Atonement.