@@venomgeekmedia9886 As you said Defiant’s are rare but Saber’s are prolific just as a bird of prey. The Defiant may be closer in spirit as a pure warship, but the Federation just wouldn’t build them for long. With the Saber’s you can fool the council into thinking its just an up armed Oberth but with a lower explodium content in the hull. 😜
@@venomgeekmedia9886 the Defiant tried to out bird-of-prey the bird-of-prey (and kind of succeeded). It was faster, tougher, just as maneuverable, and had at least three times the fire power. The problem is that the Defiant was a difficult and expensive ship to build, while the BoP was cheap and easy to mass produce. The Klingons understood that tactics wins battles, but logistics wins wars. The Saber, however, has the same logistical advantages as the BoP along with similar maneuverability and greater toughness.
The Saber is the Starfleet equivalent of the American Fletcher-class Destroyer or the Australian Magpie. Relatively small in size, they are still very formidable on their own; yet they are quite easy to spam out on mass and when present in large numbers they can and often will overwhelm their opponents with both quantity and quality. This saber destroys via "death by a thousand cuts. It is a quaint little ship and it would be nice to see more of it on screen given lore-wise it was greatly mass-produced.
I rather liked someone's beta canon idea that they have forward-facing lance phasers for some more attack punch (And probably dramatic flair. :) ) That'd look pretty cool in flights of three making passes at something. :)
@manny022 Understood. The downside to that is that you lose firepower as you pass the enemy vessel, or become vulnerable to small more maneuverable ships. This is reflected in some of the upgrades made for the Dominion war, such as adding phaser strips to the nacelles on the Galaxy class. Improving their 360 degree firepower would make them more effective on each pass, and enable a vessel to maintain fire, while turning to allow a failing shield to recharge.
@@nunya3163 The Nacelle supports? The secondary hull on the Galaxy always had phaser arrays. It was even shown in several episodes of TNG. The Galaxy was actually fairly formidable compared with other vessels of it's period. In fact it had a lot more phaser arrays than 90% of what was out there. It could fire in any direction. If anything the TNG use of them was limited and kind of showed that the galaxy didn't have the power to fire them all at once. It can be seen in several episodes that the Galaxy can't "death blossom" all it's arrays but has to sequentially fire them. Even more, while the Galaxy's initial arrays were some of the most potent in their day they pale in comparison to the phaser output of even the small Saber class arrays. Showing Starfleet had significant leaps in phaser output and design between the ship generations.
The first time i learned of the Saber class i was instantly reminded of the Fletcher-class destroyers of WW2. A prolific workhorse. Love her design, my favorite ship in Star Trek.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 You're right, I'm sure they're in there somewhere. I remember watching ds9 when it first aired on my old TV. Even though now I have the full 4k set up and access to ds9 via streaming, it's always going to look like some very clear shot of the hand full of lead ships and blurry background ships with a split second of screen time in my head until they figure a way to get the high resolution fix on it.
The Saber serves to show what happens when Starfleet decides to stop being nice they make a focused warship that can beat the stuffing out of anything dumb enough to get in knife fighting range with it
So I think the smaller size makes sense. Closer to 190m though as that's apparently how they scaled the ship in First Contact despite their initial size charts having it at 223m. I think of the Saber as the 24th century Miranda class replacement, and at 223m, it kind of dwarfs the Miranda class. At 190 it's pretty comparable, in terms of volume.
4 Saber Classes with one Steamrunner Class as s command ship can make a very effective "cavalry squad." One Saber and Steamrunner squadron will do the hit and run meanwhile Akira class squadron will spam artillery fire, while Norway Classes will hold the flanks.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 It's perhaps because it is sleeker so targeting it would be difficult and it has superior firepower and speed, it's a bit like modern day Destroyers.
I love that Analysis man. And A sovereign class is leading the advance with one defiant on all fore sides top bottom right and left. The sovereign launches all torpedoes and then comes to a sudden stop and power slides into a 90 degree turn and opens up with all 18 beam arrays. Mean while the defiants pass over their targets and circle back for another attack run this time on the enemies weak side and then pass over again but now the sovereign hits full impulse engines and hauls butt out of there with the Defiants once again on all four sides. At this time the primary force of several ambassador refits and Galaxy class heavy cruisers warping in behind with intrepids acting as support/escort ships crumble the weaken enemy fleet. And finally as the primary forces slug it out a glimmer from the past arrives as a hodge podge of Mirandas and excelsior class ships warp in at random to cause the enemy to scatter and get picked off by Akira and saber class ships.
I like the saber as a defiant class that you can do long deployments on, and can accomplish more starfleet utility type missions in non-combat, just not waiting around to fight. I also like that the primary weapons can be brought to bear on the target an most any angle, all the time, while maneuvering to best position. My problem with the defiants (fixed forward primary guns) is you constantly have to reset yourself in a moving battle to point your ship toward the target. While defiants still have beams for when they are engaging at off angles, those seem like secondary weapons.
Not sure why but the 1st time I saw this little ship, I fell deeply in love with it. Something about the design just speaks to me. For versatility, the Intrepid wins but overall, the Saber will always be my favorite ship of Star Trek.
Saber class is older than the defiant class in terms of design "The textures are from the Galaxy-class Enterprise, it was a quick way to show that even though it was a 'new' design, it was of the older era ships compared to the then new Enterprise-E." quoted from Alex Yeager
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Hard to tell commissioning dates with these ships, yes. Parallel registries to many Nebula-class and Rigel-class ships, but that doesn't establish much. Also, often said to have a crew of only 40, despite having 108 visible escape pod hatches, oddly. And yes, the nacelles are a bit Akira-like. I'd say on drawing boards since around 2355, but only commissioned post Wolf 359? Maybe after radical revisions.
I think "Big things in small packages" is Starfleet's whole philosophy in ship building. For they make ships that can fight and destroy ships twice their weight class. I mean a Galaxy Class could win a fight with a D'Dredix despite the D'Dredix being three times its size and twice its volume. And Sovereign is designed to hit well beyond its weight class.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 I think raw666 means that Dominion War variant of the "Galaxy Class" could defeat an D'derix Romulan Warbird. Now if it's the TNG Golden Era Galaxy Class it would barely hold its own against an Romulan Warbird.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 From what I recall going on; the Galaxies got some upgrades and we're focused into more tactical assignments with crews for it. This mainly based on some quick searching and remember that the Nebula pre-Dominion/Borg was rather flimsy but by the end of the war; the Nebula was a beast (especially with the Tactical Torpedo Mission Pod)...
I allways imagined it having a pair of single phaser pulse cannons to help backup the Akiras, norways, and steamrunner classes. Even the name denotes it was made to cut deep. To be the tip of the spear.
I think a big part of most space fleets will be smaller ships for patrol and general "gofer" tasks. These could easily replace the Miranda in general service, just as I see the Intrepid replacing the now aged Excelsior in service. Defiant and Promethius class ships are too specialized and too expensive for "jeep" duties, and Galexy and Sovereign are just to pricy for the job. Nebula class are just not available in the numbers needed.
@ the closest thing was that Star Trek game that came out, I think it was last year Star Trek infinity. It just sucks there are no more updates though. It’s a fun game. There are mods for botf to play 1080p which is really cool, you can then use a tool to make the galaxy really big and well there are all sorts of mods if you want to play it still
Even the smaller version of the Sabre is still shockingly big compared to a person. It’s hard to get a sense of scale for these ships from time to time and I really like seeing things like the shuttle bay doors. This ship is huge for how maneuverable it is.
In starfleet command 3, the sabre was smaller than a norway. It was the smallest federation ship in the game (with the exception of the defiant). Comparable in size to a bird of prey. Bigger but not by much.
I’ve always had a bit of a thing for the Saber since I first discovered it, it’s such a uniquely-designed vessel compared to the usual Starfleet models. Putting the secondary hull and nacelles level with one another and trailing behind the flat, blunt saucer section gives a sort of reverse-trimaran look to it. Honestly I’d love to see a book or short series centred around a Saber Attack Wing Wolfpack during the Dominion War, focussing on the tactics and smaller fleet engagements, not to mention the interactions and bonds between each ship and their fellows.
Just imagine if DS9 had done a better job, using the entire array of anti-Borg vessels, as well as the Intrepid class. But, I suppose using the Miranda made the Federation getting their butts handed to them, more believable.
@@nunya3163 it would've been epic if they did use more of the anti-borg ships in DS9 as it would've shown that starfleet had learned from the borg incident & become more prepared to deal with threats
I was always under the impression that the Saber's were assigned to patrol sector 001 and federation space. Since we see them mostly in the films defending territory when the war was going on at the frontlines.
Did I miss something or did Jaczia Dax have a command before she died? Pretty sure she was a rookie at the beginning of DS9 On the shuttle ride with Sisko...Her pic as click bate ? 🤣🤷♂️
It would have been nice after the Defiant got destroyed at the 2nd battle of Chintoka that instead of just replacing it with another Defiant if they replaced it with the Saber or even Akira Class. It kind of took away the impact of the Defiant being destroyed when they replaced it a couple episodes later.
Is the Jadzia image in the thumbnail a reference to the 2001 Dominion Wars: DS9 PC game? I haven't played it in, well nearly 20 years, but IIRC in the early missions you played Jadzia in command of a Sabre class. I could be wrong. Maybe it was a couple missions later when you played a Steam Runner class ship.
I like the idea from ASDB that they were used a lot for diplomatic Courier jobs. You really don't need the big ships a lot of the time for diplomatic duty and running about, and given how much diplomacy it would take to keep the federation ticking along having a ship built for that might make a lot of sense. Internal patrol duty and Border Patrol would also Suite a Sabre quite well. If it were designed with a lot of Diplomatic Duty in mind then it may have had a decent set of Holodecks onboard. More than her size would suggest. Combined with the small crew might mean Saber crews got a higher number of Holodeck hours on average compared to other vessels. I also think of her as a pretty direct Miranda replacement, the same way we think of the Nova as the direct Oberth replacement. By this point in the 24th century, Miranda is long in the tooth and needing replacement plus has probably been down rated in terms of role from her Light Cruiser Origins. That may lend credence to the idea that the Sabre's design is a little older than the Defiant and that it got re-jiggered with the Borg Scare. Tactically she certainly is a supporting ship for larger formations and I could also see Starfleet having more confidence sending a Sabre out for a Recon/Scout mission than a Nova. Certainly built to be Starfleet's Fast Frigate/Destroyer to carry them into the 25th Century. SIDE NOTE: Another thing to note is that the Defiant class got Shelved for a while. Around 3-4 years, assuming Sisko went straight from working on Defiant to DS9 and it was only after the DS9 crew worked out the bugs that they got Defiant production going again. Starfleet may very well have thought "With all these new, more tactical vessels coming online we don't need Defiant, She served very well as a prototype technologies testbed." Meaning Sabre and Steamrunner were destined too take over Defiant's role. Then the war happened and starfleet recognized the Defiant as the "best in class" design and got production started.
Yeah it definitely replaces the miranda and actually shares a similar sillhoute to the miranda. I hadn't considered it as a diplomatic courier but I guess it would be enough for minor dignitaries.
When I was trying to decide for my own "head canon" what size made sense for the Saber, I did some comparisons in Photoshop... And interestingly, even though 223 meters is needlessly big, those forward facing shuttle bays would still be smaller than the Miranda class bays. Approx bay door heights: Miranda: 6.2m 223m Saber: 4.7m 190m Saber: 3.8m 170m Saber: 3.5m So even the smallest potential size for the Saber could accommodate the standard Type 6 and Type 9 shuttles, but would not be able to accomate anything bigger. For the Type 11 shuttle seen in Insurrection to fit through, the Saber would have to be 223.
That same strategy worked with the M4 during WWII .... kinda . It worked for everyone except the M4 crews . Taking a ship against something 10 times your size even in a swarm isnt a good idea as much as Hollywood likes it at the moment . Let me put it this way ..... would you rather go up against the Yamato with 10 PT boats , two Bismarck class battleships or three Iowa class battleships ? I bet a poll on this one will prove size matters . lol
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Casualty Rates COMPARED TO WHAT ? Try reading the book "Death Trap" written by a WWII tank mechanic (sorry , d o not remember the guys name) if you want the opinion of someone who was there instead of someone your "expert" chose to ignore because "The experiences the mechanic reported were not valid for ... reasons ." The problem with Chieftain is that he is a M4 fanboy and refuses to acknowledge ANY PROOF to the contrary to his opinion . I am familiar with him and he is far from the expert he presents himself as . Now that I think about it ..... arent you the guy who kicked me off this channel because you claim variable wings on a BoP are NOT canon ?
@@I_am_Diogenes Belton Cooper. Memoirs are unreliable as far as objective history. Akin to Anecdotal evidence. he's one guy in the biggest war in history, and given what his job was its obviously gonna bias the account. the old "Do these parachutes ever fail to open?" "no one has ever complained." Sherman and T-34 were sound vehicles for the period. on a Recent Visit to Bovington i saw a King Tiger, and the only Tanks like it were the M103 and Conqueror tanks from over a decade later. so it isn't obvious that there was a better option than the Sherman. Regarding the BOP the wings on the BOP are definitely variable. a strange thing to block someone over?
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Thats kind of my point . Thats the guy . To disregard the experience of ONE person who was there in favor of someone who isnt even reading that level of evidence seems to be a base mistake . YES , he is only one guy relaying what he experienced .......... SORRY we were talking about swarm tactics , I do not want to get sidetracked with my example . The point to my question is that which would have a higher death count : 10 sank destroyers or one chewed up battleship ? Pretty sure the crews on the destroyers would hold a different opinion about swarm tactics than that of the battleship crew is all I am saying BUT to ignore their statements solely on the basis of they are destroyer crews seems to me to be a fallacy of the first order and exactly what I see Chieftain doing with this guy . When we sent out five tanks against one and got back one maybe two it is hard to make a case for how survivable they were . Yes , the vehicle and the crew are two different subjects but when someone starts to "discount" information just because of the source they have an agenda ... at least in my experience . :)
@@I_am_Diogenes so your right to an extent. in that there was an expectation of higher casualties be that personnel or attrition but thats more tied to the fact that they were on the offensive, and your going to take 2-1 or 3-1 losses generally. it may be the case that 5 tanks go out and one returns and maybe each tank lost 1 crewman. but next time you could send out 10 and not only might you take the position but also recover and repair the lost tanks. the best tank is the one that shows up.
I personally would'nt classify the Saber as destroyer but as a Frigate. The role of a destroyer is better met by the Norway and steamrunner class of star ships.
The Sabre to me felt like a "less risky" design than Defiant, to fulfill a simular role, likely a second idea adopted after the Defiant was mothballed, or maybe in testing at the same time as Defiant, slightly less powerful, based upon less experemental technology so less to go wrong, and closer to the usualy Starfleet design style, so generally the Sabre felt like less of a risk after the Defiant, then pushed imeadiatly into large scale production, 2-5 years before Defiant was hense more of them being seen. I'd imagine the Defiant entered large scale production between the time of the battle of Sector 001or the start of the Dominion war but it looks like the Sabre was already being produced in numbers by then, the Defiant was initially considered a failed prototype, so was mothballed for a few years, then O'Brian fixed all the problems in a few weeks what a Starfleet design team could not do in a few years, but it would have taken a while for Starfleet to be convinced she was now a viable design, so they may have built a few more Defiant class ships around DS9 season 4 (the Vailant and maybe a few more) to ensure the Defiant class truely was viable without O'Brian acting as the chief engineer, then later started mass production on the class, but the Sabre had a few years head start.
What I didn't get about the Saber is doesn't seem to have any improvement over the defiant even tho it came after? Does it go faster at warp? Or is it easier to produce? Is it more science mission focused? I will be looking to answer these questions in this video. The deflector dish is bigger then the defiant.
Small, fast, maneuverable, and can definitely dodge a particle beam (which travels at the speed of light) while at impulse speeds **IF** it has enough distance.
seems the Saber is basically a less-specialized Defiant, and in doing such, graduates from a Monitor-type to a destroyer or destroyer-escort. It has a similar power output to the Defiant, with a little more size for amenities and secondary functions.
Even though going by size would suggest otherwise, I'd say you should swap the classifications of the Saber and the Defiant classes. The Sabers seem to me to fit the attack ship role better than the Defiant ships as being still pretty small, numerous and useful for light warship duties while the Defiant seems better designed to support larger ships as an escort killer capable of adding worthwhile firepower to the main battle force via its quantum torpedoes and it phaser cannons being more powerful than normal phaser strips.
One weird thing about the Sabre is every profile looks different to what you'd expect. Front, rear, side....take the Intrepid for example. Much more predictable
It began in Star Trek Armada II, the video game, @Christopher Boom , and has had some updated fan textures and models, since. Is a destroyer/mine layer type design.
Is that a Wasp ? Anyway... The Nova and Saber could be said to share some DNA with the defiant as both of them were part of the earlier version of the project that lead to the Defiant. Perhaps the Saber is more of a "slugger" with it's better armour but that Nova Class USS Equinox took a heck of a pounding from Voyager effectively trying to kill it, while it was already damaged. So I don't think Novas are something one should see being one-hit killed really. I like how Sabers make some attempt to armour or partially obscure the vulnerable parts of the ship. I think they are a ship that you wouldn't want to replace in 20 years either it just seems to fill a niche so well. with a little bit more flexibility to it than a Defiant class. As for size, I guess one has to ask some questions like can it fit a couple of Denube class Runablouts in it's shuttle bay better at the larger size. Or would it be limited to custom shuttles (perhaps something similar to the ones Lower Decks showed in use on the USS Titan). It's a fun model to "swoosh around" too I might add.
I don't like calling it a destroyer, and the reason is kind of backwards. The reason is, what a destroyer does. The name comes from its job, the Torpedo Boat Destroyer. These ships were built to screen larger ships, protect them from enemy Torpedo boats, and to carry out torpedo runs themselves. Armed with very light guns, their job was to fight ships their own size, and flood the water with torpedoes. During ww2 and beyond, there were 2 classes of ships that mirrored each other, the Destroyer, and the Frigate. Frigates were originally called Destroyer Escorts, listed as DE's or DDE's, they were destroyers, that sacrificed speed, to keep cost down, their job was to run with convoys providing protection from subs and enemy destroyers, though their speed was usually limited to 20-25 knots, (27 in more modern navies). They usually mounted the same firepower as a destroyer, with a slight increase in the ASW focus. No, the Saber class, is something else, its smaller then a destroyer, lighter, faster, its job is to hit and run, get in, do damage with its guns, target enemy destroyers and frigates, and clear the way for friendly destroyers to make their target runs. its... a Corvette. Corvette groups were often lead by a destroyer as their flag ship (where destroyers were lead by a Destroyer leader or light cruiser). While in WW2 corvettes tended to be slower, as they were tasked with escort duty, their prey, the sub was even slower then them, and they could stay on top of a sub for hours, or days. Corvettes always favored speed, maneuverability, stealth, having destroyer sized guns, but lacking the torpedoes. Carrying depth charges, sometimes, mines, and in modern times missiles to engage ships (cuz everything has missiles) they rarely carry more then 8 anti-ship missiles, using their speed to get in fast, engage with their missiles, and then go to guns. To me, this is a saber, screams in with the rest of the fleet several of the, providing phaser cover for the destroyers while they do their torpeode runs on larger ships going after the fighters, the enemy destroyers, the gunboats.
Give that thing ablative armour and 50 quantum torpedoes 100 micro photons .and a cloaking device or phasing cloak you got the perfect hit and run ship.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 usually the American is the original English version of the word. For example, aluminum, the American pronounciation is the original English pronounciation of the word.
Just one thing, your videos can often end rather abruptly and can be quite jarring. You might want to put a few seconds of the video fading to black at the end.
Given DS9 was the start of using CGI in the Trek world to fill in the battle sequences that show had, at least at the end, that wouldn't actually surprise me if the shape was determined by the necessity of simplicity of models of the time. Also the same idea with Babylon 5 doing all of it's ship sequences in CGI....the rendering capability of the day required the ships be less complex in order to get a scene rendered in time before shipping it off to post so it can air on time....
I love this ship! Its like the Federations Bird of Prey!
More so than the defiant?
@@venomgeekmedia9886 As you said Defiant’s are rare but Saber’s are prolific just as a bird of prey. The Defiant may be closer in spirit as a pure warship, but the Federation just wouldn’t build them for long. With the Saber’s you can fool the council into thinking its just an up armed Oberth but with a lower explodium content in the hull. 😜
@@madrabbit9007 ironically the Saber does have a kind of explosive in the hull. its Ablative armor
@@venomgeekmedia9886 the Defiant tried to out bird-of-prey the bird-of-prey (and kind of succeeded). It was faster, tougher, just as maneuverable, and had at least three times the fire power. The problem is that the Defiant was a difficult and expensive ship to build, while the BoP was cheap and easy to mass produce. The Klingons understood that tactics wins battles, but logistics wins wars. The Saber, however, has the same logistical advantages as the BoP along with similar maneuverability and greater toughness.
@@theodoremccarthy4438 for me, this is one of the sexiest ships in the fleet and the one I would want to command most of all.
The Saber is the Starfleet equivalent of the American Fletcher-class Destroyer or the Australian Magpie. Relatively small in size, they are still very formidable on their own; yet they are quite easy to spam out on mass and when present in large numbers they can and often will overwhelm their opponents with both quantity and quality. This saber destroys via "death by a thousand cuts.
It is a quaint little ship and it would be nice to see more of it on screen given lore-wise it was greatly mass-produced.
The Fletcher class is a great comparison.
I rather liked someone's beta canon idea that they have forward-facing lance phasers for some more attack punch (And probably dramatic flair. :) ) That'd look pretty cool in flights of three making passes at something. :)
@manny022 Yes, just like the ones they used on DS-9. That would be a great addition to most starships, allowing them to do broadsides.
@manny022 Understood. The downside to that is that you lose firepower as you pass the enemy vessel, or become vulnerable to small more maneuverable ships. This is reflected in some of the upgrades made for the Dominion war, such as adding phaser strips to the nacelles on the Galaxy class.
Improving their 360 degree firepower would make them more effective on each pass, and enable a vessel to maintain fire, while turning to allow a failing shield to recharge.
@@nunya3163 The Nacelle supports? The secondary hull on the Galaxy always had phaser arrays. It was even shown in several episodes of TNG. The Galaxy was actually fairly formidable compared with other vessels of it's period. In fact it had a lot more phaser arrays than 90% of what was out there. It could fire in any direction. If anything the TNG use of them was limited and kind of showed that the galaxy didn't have the power to fire them all at once. It can be seen in several episodes that the Galaxy can't "death blossom" all it's arrays but has to sequentially fire them. Even more, while the Galaxy's initial arrays were some of the most potent in their day they pale in comparison to the phaser output of even the small Saber class arrays. Showing Starfleet had significant leaps in phaser output and design between the ship generations.
The first time i learned of the Saber class i was instantly reminded of the Fletcher-class destroyers of WW2. A prolific workhorse.
Love her design, my favorite ship in Star Trek.
Would have loved to have seen this and some of the other anti borg ships instead of never ending waves of Excelsior and Miranda ships.
It is there in the background. But yeah it out to have been given more prominence
@@venomgeekmedia9886 You're right, I'm sure they're in there somewhere. I remember watching ds9 when it first aired on my old TV. Even though now I have the full 4k set up and access to ds9 via streaming, it's always going to look like some very clear shot of the hand full of lead ships and blurry background ships with a split second of screen time in my head until they figure a way to get the high resolution fix on it.
They had to get rid of them somehow 😂
Capt Sisko should have had one of these in addition to the Defiant.
@@venomgeekmedia9886can you please do a ship chat for the Niagara class please
The Saber serves to show what happens when Starfleet decides to stop being nice they make a focused warship that can beat the stuffing out of anything dumb enough to get in knife fighting range with it
So I think the smaller size makes sense. Closer to 190m though as that's apparently how they scaled the ship in First Contact despite their initial size charts having it at 223m. I think of the Saber as the 24th century Miranda class replacement, and at 223m, it kind of dwarfs the Miranda class. At 190 it's pretty comparable, in terms of volume.
Yeah well as you'll see the saber has very different proportions.
I recently picked a Saber class starship in ST Online. It's a cool "little" ship. Thank you for making this video!
In my best Worf impersonation: "Little?!?!?" 😅🤣
4 Saber Classes with one Steamrunner Class as s command ship can make a very effective "cavalry squad."
One Saber and Steamrunner squadron will do the hit and run meanwhile Akira class squadron will spam artillery fire, while Norway Classes will hold the flanks.
Yep and the steamrunner can also brawl it out with anything larger that comes along.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 It's perhaps because it is sleeker so targeting it would be difficult and it has superior firepower and speed, it's a bit like modern day Destroyers.
I love that Analysis man. And A sovereign class is leading the advance with one defiant on all fore sides top bottom right and left. The sovereign launches all torpedoes and then comes to a sudden stop and power slides into a 90 degree turn and opens up with all 18 beam arrays. Mean while the defiants pass over their targets and circle back for another attack run this time on the enemies weak side and then pass over again but now the sovereign hits full impulse engines and hauls butt out of there with the Defiants once again on all four sides. At this time the primary force of several ambassador refits and Galaxy class heavy cruisers warping in behind with intrepids acting as support/escort ships crumble the weaken enemy fleet. And finally as the primary forces slug it out a glimmer from the past arrives as a hodge podge of Mirandas and excelsior class ships warp in at random to cause the enemy to scatter and get picked off by Akira and saber class ships.
I like all the anti borg ships!
I like the saber as a defiant class that you can do long deployments on, and can accomplish more starfleet utility type missions in non-combat, just not waiting around to fight. I also like that the primary weapons can be brought to bear on the target an most any angle, all the time, while maneuvering to best position. My problem with the defiants (fixed forward primary guns) is you constantly have to reset yourself in a moving battle to point your ship toward the target. While defiants still have beams for when they are engaging at off angles, those seem like secondary weapons.
Not sure why but the 1st time I saw this little ship, I fell deeply in love with it. Something about the design just speaks to me. For versatility, the Intrepid wins but overall, the Saber will always be my favorite ship of Star Trek.
Saber class is older than the defiant class in terms of design
"The textures are from the Galaxy-class Enterprise, it was a quick way to show that even though it was a 'new' design, it was of the older era ships compared to the then new Enterprise-E." quoted from Alex Yeager
Never noticed that. Equally it mounts the same nacelle as the akira. It might have been his intention but they are presented as new.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Hard to tell commissioning dates with these ships, yes. Parallel registries to many Nebula-class and Rigel-class ships, but that doesn't establish much.
Also, often said to have a crew of only 40, despite having 108 visible escape pod hatches, oddly. And yes, the nacelles are a bit Akira-like.
I'd say on drawing boards since around 2355, but only commissioned post Wolf 359? Maybe after radical revisions.
I think "Big things in small packages" is Starfleet's whole philosophy in ship building. For they make ships that can fight and destroy ships twice their weight class. I mean a Galaxy Class could win a fight with a D'Dredix despite the D'Dredix being three times its size and twice its volume. And Sovereign is designed to hit well beyond its weight class.
Not quite that extent. The galaxy cannot beat a d'deridex. And the sovereign despite being smaller than a galaxy has maybe 1.5× the firepower.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 I think raw666 means that Dominion War variant of the "Galaxy Class" could defeat an D'derix Romulan Warbird. Now if it's the TNG Golden Era Galaxy Class it would barely hold its own against an Romulan Warbird.
@@RegBeta thing is there's no evidence that there was such a thing as a dominion war galaxy class.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 From what I recall going on; the Galaxies got some upgrades and we're focused into more tactical assignments with crews for it. This mainly based on some quick searching and remember that the Nebula pre-Dominion/Borg was rather flimsy but by the end of the war; the Nebula was a beast (especially with the Tactical Torpedo Mission Pod)...
Borg, Cardassians, Breen, Dominion, all in the day's work for the Sabre Class
UA-cam: this video has no views
Me: prepare for that to change
If there ever was a defiant-a, this I think would be it
This design always reminds me of the Jem Hadar bug ships.
Very similar compact shape.
Same.
I allways imagined it having a pair of single phaser pulse cannons to help backup the Akiras, norways, and steamrunner classes. Even the name denotes it was made to cut deep. To be the tip of the spear.
I loves me some Dax.😍
this may be my favorite star trek starship design.
I think a big part of most space fleets will be smaller ships for patrol and general "gofer" tasks. These could easily replace the Miranda in general service, just as I see the Intrepid replacing the now aged Excelsior in service. Defiant and Promethius class ships are too specialized and too expensive for "jeep" duties, and Galexy and Sovereign are just to pricy for the job. Nebula class are just not available in the numbers needed.
This really should have been the Lower Decks Hero Ship.
this ship would've been cool in the birth of the federation game
would really like to see that game get an update/rework/rerelease...such fun
@ the closest thing was that Star Trek game that came out, I think it was last year Star Trek infinity. It just sucks there are no more updates though. It’s a fun game. There are mods for botf to play 1080p which is really cool, you can then use a tool to make the galaxy really big and well there are all sorts of mods if you want to play it still
For some reason, I pictured the crews as rivals with the crews of the Defiant class ships.
I could definitely see that happening. I doubt a saber crew would willingly set foot on ds9.
Even the smaller version of the Sabre is still shockingly big compared to a person. It’s hard to get a sense of scale for these ships from time to time and I really like seeing things like the shuttle bay doors. This ship is huge for how maneuverable it is.
That whole overloading thing, can't they just use thicker guage wiring?
I always considered the saber a light frigate, the steamrunner a heavy frigate, the norway a destroyer, and the akira the cruiser.
In starfleet command 3, the sabre was smaller than a norway. It was the smallest federation ship in the game (with the exception of the defiant). Comparable in size to a bird of prey. Bigger but not by much.
I’ve always had a bit of a thing for the Saber since I first discovered it, it’s such a uniquely-designed vessel compared to the usual Starfleet models. Putting the secondary hull and nacelles level with one another and trailing behind the flat, blunt saucer section gives a sort of reverse-trimaran look to it.
Honestly I’d love to see a book or short series centred around a Saber Attack Wing Wolfpack during the Dominion War, focussing on the tactics and smaller fleet engagements, not to mention the interactions and bonds between each ship and their fellows.
Like the series.
Many thanx for the effort.
Still like warm over the saber. Maybe be caused reading SCE series. Be safe 🦊
It looks like a fighter jet.
I really like the saber design but I would've loved it more if it was the class we got on screen in DS9 instead of all those miranda's
Just imagine if DS9 had done a better job, using the entire array of anti-Borg vessels, as well as the Intrepid class. But, I suppose using the Miranda made the Federation getting their butts handed to them, more believable.
@@nunya3163 it would've been epic if they did use more of the anti-borg ships in DS9 as it would've shown that starfleet had learned from the borg incident & become more prepared to deal with threats
That old adage of fighting with the military you have, not the one you want, seemed to apply to Starfleet during the Dominion war.
I was always under the impression that the Saber's were assigned to patrol sector 001 and federation space. Since we see them mostly in the films defending territory when the war was going on at the frontlines.
Excellent show.
Thanks for covering this. I suggested the Saber class as an alternative to the Defiant in your best attack/fighter video.
Did I miss something or did Jaczia Dax have a command before she died? Pretty sure she was a rookie at the beginning of DS9 On the shuttle ride with Sisko...Her pic as click bate ? 🤣🤷♂️
maybe....
Love this
The true Hero Ship Class of the 24th Century Starfleet.
I really love this design of ship wish we had been able to see more of it
It would have been nice after the Defiant got destroyed at the 2nd battle of Chintoka that instead of just replacing it with another Defiant if they replaced it with the Saber or even Akira Class. It kind of took away the impact of the Defiant being destroyed when they replaced it a couple episodes later.
And i always wondered if the (USS Sao Paulo) the 2nd Defiant also got a Romulan Cloaking device :)
Is the Jadzia image in the thumbnail a reference to the 2001 Dominion Wars: DS9 PC game? I haven't played it in, well nearly 20 years, but IIRC in the early missions you played Jadzia in command of a Sabre class. I could be wrong. Maybe it was a couple missions later when you played a Steam Runner class ship.
pure coincidence. interesting though. you probably would only have a lieutenant commanding a ship like this.
One thing about this ship, from the module I have, it seems to have an insane amount of escape pods. More than there are crew!
Saber Class reminds me of a horseshoe crab.. Lolol not the best but I’ll take it over any modern day designs we’ve seen on screen
Horseshoe crabs used to remind me of starships lol.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Lol yeah Venom…. We’re nuts!
I always imagined a Galaxy class battle saucer section looking like this. Basically making it a discount Prometheus class
I shall say the same thing here I said when I first saw this on Star Trek Online...... where's the rest of it? lol
Do they use quantum torpedo?
👀
I like the idea from ASDB that they were used a lot for diplomatic Courier jobs. You really don't need the big ships a lot of the time for diplomatic duty and running about, and given how much diplomacy it would take to keep the federation ticking along having a ship built for that might make a lot of sense. Internal patrol duty and Border Patrol would also Suite a Sabre quite well.
If it were designed with a lot of Diplomatic Duty in mind then it may have had a decent set of Holodecks onboard. More than her size would suggest. Combined with the small crew might mean Saber crews got a higher number of Holodeck hours on average compared to other vessels.
I also think of her as a pretty direct Miranda replacement, the same way we think of the Nova as the direct Oberth replacement. By this point in the 24th century, Miranda is long in the tooth and needing replacement plus has probably been down rated in terms of role from her Light Cruiser Origins.
That may lend credence to the idea that the Sabre's design is a little older than the Defiant and that it got re-jiggered with the Borg Scare.
Tactically she certainly is a supporting ship for larger formations and I could also see Starfleet having more confidence sending a Sabre out for a Recon/Scout mission than a Nova.
Certainly built to be Starfleet's Fast Frigate/Destroyer to carry them into the 25th Century.
SIDE NOTE:
Another thing to note is that the Defiant class got Shelved for a while. Around 3-4 years, assuming Sisko went straight from working on Defiant to DS9 and it was only after the DS9 crew worked out the bugs that they got Defiant production going again. Starfleet may very well have thought "With all these new, more tactical vessels coming online we don't need Defiant, She served very well as a prototype technologies testbed." Meaning Sabre and Steamrunner were destined too take over Defiant's role.
Then the war happened and starfleet recognized the Defiant as the "best in class" design and got production started.
Yeah it definitely replaces the miranda and actually shares a similar sillhoute to the miranda. I hadn't considered it as a diplomatic courier but I guess it would be enough for minor dignitaries.
When I was trying to decide for my own "head canon" what size made sense for the Saber, I did some comparisons in Photoshop... And interestingly, even though 223 meters is needlessly big, those forward facing shuttle bays would still be smaller than the Miranda class bays.
Approx bay door heights:
Miranda: 6.2m
223m Saber: 4.7m
190m Saber: 3.8m
170m Saber: 3.5m
So even the smallest potential size for the Saber could accommodate the standard Type 6 and Type 9 shuttles, but would not be able to accomate anything bigger. For the Type 11 shuttle seen in Insurrection to fit through, the Saber would have to be 223.
I'm not sure about the size thing... did you check out if foward shuttlebays match smaller proportions?
if AI ever gets to that i want a series of "every ship dropped of in the delta quad." and see how far each ship gets
scale it off a shuttle craft to get a approximate size
Ooh interesting approach.
That same strategy worked with the M4 during WWII .... kinda . It worked for everyone except the M4 crews . Taking a ship against something 10 times your size even in a swarm isnt a good idea as much as Hollywood likes it at the moment . Let me put it this way ..... would you rather go up against the Yamato with 10 PT boats , two Bismarck class battleships or three Iowa class battleships ? I bet a poll on this one will prove size matters . lol
maybe so but casualties rates among sherman crews were low, See the chieftan's "OH MY God! Da TANK Is ON FIRE!" tests.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Casualty Rates COMPARED TO WHAT ? Try reading the book "Death Trap" written by a WWII tank mechanic (sorry , d o not remember the guys name) if you want the opinion of someone who was there instead of someone your "expert" chose to ignore because "The experiences the mechanic reported were not valid for ... reasons ."
The problem with Chieftain is that he is a M4 fanboy and refuses to acknowledge ANY PROOF to the contrary to his opinion . I am familiar with him and he is far from the expert he presents himself as . Now that I think about it ..... arent you the guy who kicked me off this channel because you claim variable wings on a BoP are NOT canon ?
@@I_am_Diogenes Belton Cooper. Memoirs are unreliable as far as objective history. Akin to Anecdotal evidence. he's one guy in the biggest war in history, and given what his job was its obviously gonna bias the account. the old "Do these parachutes ever fail to open?"
"no one has ever complained."
Sherman and T-34 were sound vehicles for the period. on a Recent Visit to Bovington i saw a King Tiger, and the only Tanks like it were the M103 and Conqueror tanks from over a decade later. so it isn't obvious that there was a better option than the Sherman.
Regarding the BOP the wings on the BOP are definitely variable. a strange thing to block someone over?
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Thats kind of my point . Thats the guy . To disregard the experience of ONE person who was there in favor of someone who isnt even reading that level of evidence seems to be a base mistake . YES , he is only one guy relaying what he experienced ..........
SORRY we were talking about swarm tactics , I do not want to get sidetracked with my example . The point to my question is that which would have a higher death count : 10 sank destroyers or one chewed up battleship ? Pretty sure the crews on the destroyers would hold a different opinion about swarm tactics than that of the battleship crew is all I am saying BUT to ignore their statements solely on the basis of they are destroyer crews seems to me to be a fallacy of the first order and exactly what I see Chieftain doing with this guy .
When we sent out five tanks against one and got back one maybe two it is hard to make a case for how survivable they were . Yes , the vehicle and the crew are two different subjects but when someone starts to "discount" information just because of the source they have an agenda ... at least in my experience . :)
@@I_am_Diogenes so your right to an extent. in that there was an expectation of higher casualties be that personnel or attrition but thats more tied to the fact that they were on the offensive, and your going to take 2-1 or 3-1 losses generally.
it may be the case that 5 tanks go out and one returns and maybe each tank lost 1 crewman. but next time you could send out 10 and not only might you take the position but also recover and repair the lost tanks.
the best tank is the one that shows up.
I personally would'nt classify the Saber as destroyer but as a Frigate. The role of a destroyer is better met by the Norway and steamrunner class of star ships.
I love her. Your art ,oh well done .
Looks like it adheres to "Da Rules"
There’s a certain irony in employing swarm tactics against a hive mind society.
Never thought about it like that.
The Sabre to me felt like a "less risky" design than Defiant, to fulfill a simular role, likely a second idea adopted after the Defiant was mothballed, or maybe in testing at the same time as Defiant, slightly less powerful, based upon less experemental technology so less to go wrong, and closer to the usualy Starfleet design style, so generally the Sabre felt like less of a risk after the Defiant, then pushed imeadiatly into large scale production, 2-5 years before Defiant was hense more of them being seen.
I'd imagine the Defiant entered large scale production between the time of the battle of Sector 001or the start of the Dominion war but it looks like the Sabre was already being produced in numbers by then, the Defiant was initially considered a failed prototype, so was mothballed for a few years, then O'Brian fixed all the problems in a few weeks what a Starfleet design team could not do in a few years, but it would have taken a while for Starfleet to be convinced she was now a viable design, so they may have built a few more Defiant class ships around DS9 season 4 (the Vailant and maybe a few more) to ensure the Defiant class truely was viable without O'Brian acting as the chief engineer, then later started mass production on the class, but the Sabre had a few years head start.
What I didn't get about the Saber is doesn't seem to have any improvement over the defiant even tho it came after? Does it go faster at warp? Or is it easier to produce? Is it more science mission focused? I will be looking to answer these questions in this video. The deflector dish is bigger then the defiant.
I totally love the Saber class it's a really cool looking for
Small, fast, maneuverable, and can definitely dodge a particle beam (which travels at the speed of light) while at impulse speeds **IF** it has enough distance.
Yeah I mean phasers are hitscan weapons. Close to speed of light. But ships seem to be more capable of evasive maneuvers.
seems the Saber is basically a less-specialized Defiant, and in doing such, graduates from a Monitor-type to a destroyer or destroyer-escort. It has a similar power output to the Defiant, with a little more size for amenities and secondary functions.
Oh my dear YEAGER YOU'RE TIME WILL COME!
Even though going by size would suggest otherwise, I'd say you should swap the classifications of the Saber and the Defiant classes. The Sabers seem to me to fit the attack ship role better than the Defiant ships as being still pretty small, numerous and useful for light warship duties while the Defiant seems better designed to support larger ships as an escort killer capable of adding worthwhile firepower to the main battle force via its quantum torpedoes and it phaser cannons being more powerful than normal phaser strips.
with the lager ones, they could have more science intraments in them, so mainly for non combat, but could hold its own.
I like this ship more now after this video
Glad I could help
Two favourite ships in Star Trek are the saber class destroyer and the Ambassador heavy cruiser
The Sabre is my favorite Federation ship
Where do u see a horizontal warp core??? It's clearly vertical.
Its the same class of the da vinci its also featured in season 4 ep 10 of lower decks.
7:08 the mass- is for a ship twice that size .
A Akira with two K'Vort class bird's of prey would be a good squad
I have a (STO) T-6x Fleet Sabre. Really fun to fly.
The Defiants other angry brother!
One weird thing about the Sabre is every profile looks different to what you'd expect. Front, rear, side....take the Intrepid for example. Much more predictable
Yeah it's wide from the top unusual from the side and flat from the front.
Looks like a kit bashed Cardassian and Jem'Haddar ship...
Where is that Cardasian ship from?
It began in Star Trek Armada II, the video game, @Christopher Boom , and has had some updated fan textures and models, since.
Is a destroyer/mine layer type design.
Is that a Wasp ?
Anyway... The Nova and Saber could be said to share some DNA with the defiant as both of them were part of the earlier version of the project that lead to the Defiant. Perhaps the Saber is more of a "slugger" with it's better armour but that Nova Class USS Equinox took a heck of a pounding from Voyager effectively trying to kill it, while it was already damaged. So I don't think Novas are something one should see being one-hit killed really.
I like how Sabers make some attempt to armour or partially obscure the vulnerable parts of the ship.
I think they are a ship that you wouldn't want to replace in 20 years either it just seems to fill a niche so well.
with a little bit more flexibility to it than a Defiant class.
As for size, I guess one has to ask some questions like can it fit a couple of Denube class Runablouts in it's shuttle bay better at the larger size. Or would it be limited to custom shuttles (perhaps something similar to the ones Lower Decks showed in use on the USS Titan).
It's a fun model to "swoosh around" too I might add.
Though I guess the Saber class does have a replacement now in the form of the STO D'vinci class
ua-cam.com/video/7YJDjmK43hQ/v-deo.html
It's kinda ugly but it's one of my favorite background ship from DS9 and First Contact.
The diagram clearly shows the Sabers warpcorp mounted vertically not horizontol. A minor mistake for a great video.
I don't like calling it a destroyer, and the reason is kind of backwards. The reason is, what a destroyer does. The name comes from its job, the Torpedo Boat Destroyer. These ships were built to screen larger ships, protect them from enemy Torpedo boats, and to carry out torpedo runs themselves. Armed with very light guns, their job was to fight ships their own size, and flood the water with torpedoes. During ww2 and beyond, there were 2 classes of ships that mirrored each other, the Destroyer, and the Frigate. Frigates were originally called Destroyer Escorts, listed as DE's or DDE's, they were destroyers, that sacrificed speed, to keep cost down, their job was to run with convoys providing protection from subs and enemy destroyers, though their speed was usually limited to 20-25 knots, (27 in more modern navies). They usually mounted the same firepower as a destroyer, with a slight increase in the ASW focus.
No, the Saber class, is something else, its smaller then a destroyer, lighter, faster, its job is to hit and run, get in, do damage with its guns, target enemy destroyers and frigates, and clear the way for friendly destroyers to make their target runs. its... a Corvette. Corvette groups were often lead by a destroyer as their flag ship (where destroyers were lead by a Destroyer leader or light cruiser). While in WW2 corvettes tended to be slower, as they were tasked with escort duty, their prey, the sub was even slower then them, and they could stay on top of a sub for hours, or days. Corvettes always favored speed, maneuverability, stealth, having destroyer sized guns, but lacking the torpedoes. Carrying depth charges, sometimes, mines, and in modern times missiles to engage ships (cuz everything has missiles) they rarely carry more then 8 anti-ship missiles, using their speed to get in fast, engage with their missiles, and then go to guns.
To me, this is a saber, screams in with the rest of the fleet several of the, providing phaser cover for the destroyers while they do their torpeode runs on larger ships going after the fighters, the enemy destroyers, the gunboats.
So what you're saying is it's not really a Destroyer it's more like a Destroyer Escort or a Corvette class warship
Can't we just screenshot the artwork.?
Give that thing ablative armour and 50 quantum torpedoes 100 micro photons .and a cloaking device or phasing cloak you got the perfect hit and run ship.
Great
My favourite ships
I always thought it was Sabre not Saber. Maybe that explains the size differences...two different classes! Haha
one is american and the other is correct.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 usually the American is the original English version of the word. For example, aluminum, the American pronounciation is the original English pronounciation of the word.
Ah, the old vowel shift...
Looks like a Jem hadar attack ship.
Good observation almost like their 2 sides of the same coin I wounder if that was deliberate or a coincidence.
Swarming doesn't actually work against the borg - because if borg really wants you - they sent hundreds of cubes xD Or a tactcial cube
I want one for this weekend. Road trip.. Anyone else want to come 2?
Wait i did not see it in ds9
It was there but very obscured and it is of course small.
It's in multiple Dominion War battle scenes, often in the background.
You spelled "The cannonfodder" wrong
Why don't you just make them bigger come on man just make the federation ships bigger
Just one thing, your videos can often end rather abruptly and can be quite jarring. You might want to put a few seconds of the video fading to black at the end.
yeah i mean at this point i probably ought to have an outro/endscreen.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 just a small thing but otherwise other then a very minor quibble the content is great. Keep up the good work.
Why is it so hideous?
Chip shat
I actually hate the design of this thing! It's ugly as sin, and looks like it was made for mid 90s video games.
not surprising given that it was in fact designed in the 90s
Given DS9 was the start of using CGI in the Trek world to fill in the battle sequences that show had, at least at the end, that wouldn't actually surprise me if the shape was determined by the necessity of simplicity of models of the time. Also the same idea with Babylon 5 doing all of it's ship sequences in CGI....the rendering capability of the day required the ships be less complex in order to get a scene rendered in time before shipping it off to post so it can air on time....