Yaw2 Motion Cockpit - My Thoughts!
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- Опубліковано 22 лип 2024
- Chatting about the new Yaw2 motion cockpit and what I think of it.
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Sorry if I wasn't clear in the video but the Pro version has mains power and a USB hub to help solve cables twisting (excluding wired VR headsets that need display port or HDMI of course), the normal version does not.
Quest 2 and Virtual Desktop or Airlink and a decent wifi router and you don't need DP or HDMI passthru at all.
That was pretty clear to me. Makes sense.
I paused the video to check for this in the comments. I'm glad to see it pinned.
You may already know this, but there will also be a space behind the chair where optional weights can be placed to provide balance if needed.
For me, the two biggest things preventing me from getting it are the space I'd have to dedicate to it (most of my room; don't think I could play Beat Saber anymore, for example) and the price (even though it's much cheaper for the functionality it offers).
Dear Yaw, please send Karl a YAW2, so he can review it and give it a good testing for us. The price does sound too good to be true! Thanks for the interesting video, Karl - well explained.
Yeah it’s too good to be true because that isn’t the price at all. The pro version costs almost £4,000 to get it in the UK.
Excellent discussion, Karl; your logical, straightforward commentaries are always interesting and welcome.
I recall from watching Cas and Chary's video that the new Yaw2 includes slots for counterweights, so they don't appear to have built it to be inherently balanced.
Hi Karl, thank you for your thoughts. Let me add some info:
1; regarding balance: you will be able to put counterweights on the back of the simulator (standard weight plates) to improve balance when using heavy pedals.
2; regarding rigidity: it's important to note that most of the videos show the first prototype, so almost all elements will be improved in the coming months. The basic footrest has some rigidity of course, but as you can see it is stable enough to work well with basic pedals. This week we will present an alternative frame that can replace the current footrest on demand and is just as rigid as the frame of the "traditional" simulators. (It is made of 4cm professional aluminium profiles.) As for the table, in our newer videos you can see the 2nd generation model where the long side of the table is folded in, which gives it a very strong stability and we will improve it even further
3; Concerning motion sickness, I can definitely say that the simulator (in my case for sure) reduces the effect/intensity of motion sickness. During the tests, there were many times when the simulator would stop (because something was set) but the game would go on. In such cases I had to close my eyes until the simulator started up, because the experience was much more dizzying without motion. I could argue about the acceleration simulation. When you simulate positive acceleration, for example, the chair does indeed lean back, but at that moment you get the G-force "pressing" into the chair (you feel pressure on your back), simulating as if the car is accelerating. It's important to know that you can customize all the parameters in our system, so if you want to simulate the accelerations in reverse, you can invert the directions and adjust the strength with a click. (But of course motion sickness is a very subjective thing, different for everyone)
4; we have a new review from a professional sim racer: ua-cam.com/video/4I0QPlAOKX8/v-deo.html
I'm SUPER EXCITED for this, thank you Yaw VR for raising the bar! I wish you incredible success with this new version, I think you have a real winner in terms of value for $$$. This is a mind-blowing upgrade over your previous model... well done!
Thanks for your comment! :)
Great to hear your still optimizing and improving things!
Yeah motion sickness will vary massively from person to person.
It looks like a great product specially for the price! :D
@@KarlGosling You forgot to ask to get a review sample. 😁
@Yaw VR what about cables twisting? are you solving that with buying the pro only? so people who buy the standard plus the 3dof add on dont get that? if so that doesnt sound good, the issue with cables twisting solution should come with the 3dof add on regardless if u get pro or standard otherwise people who get standard and 3dof add on might cause big problem when the cables twist and then cut and god knows what can that cause, so please dont force people into pro just so they can be safe, have it on the 3dof add on for the standard too, and as goslin said maybe u can also add hdmi and display port ports for wired vr headset
@@mirshia5248 Hi Dea pond,
Good to see you here too. We talked about this a few days back via email. None of our devices will break cables while turning. Although we are working on adding HDMI and more USB ports.
I thought you did a perfect job explaining motion. I always enjoy how hard you work being thorough.
Thanks!
@Karl Gosling I understand what you were trying to explain about motion (and it might apply to playing with screens, but in VR it doesn't apply)
If you are playing in VR, the real movement is not relevant, only the perceived movement is, and here is why:
When you are in motion in a real car, even though you are moving forward (real movement), the slow build up of "momentum or inertia" makes you feel almost as if you were standing still relative to the car (perceived movement) like the example of "the man in the train" explain by Einstein in General relativity.
Only at the beginning, when you change from "stationary state" to "motion", you will feel acceleration proportional to G forces; after that, the feeling of acceleration fades rapidly. So what actually happens, is that, just before the moment of breaking, your inner ear can barely perceive any forward momentum (almost as if you were standing still or sitting in the Yaw 2 chair) , and when you actually break, your car slows down , your body tries to keep moving forward, and this movement is perceived by the inner ear as "deceleration"; and this is what the chair replicates under breaking. That, plus what your eyes see in VR, creates "congruency", tricking your brains into thinking you are actually breaking because what you see and what your inner ear feels matches previous real life driving experiences.
Motion sickness is the result of "incongruency", when what you see and what you feel doesn't match (e.g. if you are in a boat and your inner ear feels you are moving but your sight, fixed on the horizon, tricks your brain into thinking you are stationary) or the opposite example in VR racing; your eyes see that you are moving, but your inner ear feel nothing.
Basically, every movement the chair does is to trigger, in the inner ear, as close as possible of a response as real driving conditions do. And since the only 2 instruments we have to perceive motion are our eyes and our inner ear; if the eyes are looking through a VR headset and the inner ear is being tricked by the chair, congruency is archived and the motion becomes believable.
All the rest of the movement the chair replicates follow the same logic, although people should really lean their head against the headrest of the seat when accelerating, instead of trying to keep themselves up right (like I've seen some do) to really archived the correct feeling.
I agree mate and the theory is correct but ultimately we are not actually moving, have no momentum or g force and so all we feel is a small amount of inverse push or pull from our motion solution... for me this doesn't help with motion sickness in VR.
But, everyone is different and you can get your brain used to almost anything too :)
Regarding the comment about getting tied up in cables, the built in power socket and usb hub of the PRO version solves that problem for the peripherals, and if you are using a quest 2 or other wireless adapter you would be tetherless.
Joystick based motion is good because not all games have telemetry. For example Star Wars Squadrons.
I thought I mentioned the Pro version having those? Sorry if it wasn't clear.
Your conversational videos make me spend money. GT-Lite, T300, Buttkicker. Your killing me. Interesting video by the way.
lol Sorry mate! :)
I had the yaw 1,And getting the yaw 2... you said it very very well i must say! By the way a big selling point is also that they have a amazing support by the yaw vr team i must say!
That's good to hear, I'm also looking forward to a yaw2 coming to me ....
Nailed it. Thanks for the insight. I hope Yaw reach out to you to give it a go. 🤞🤞🤞
You can have my opinion. It goes up and down, left right and around. It looks fun and it’s expensive. It won’t make you faster, will probably make you slower but you won’t care. Without having one to hand, I’m making it all up. I want one but I have a wife.
You make a great point about motion and is exactly why id like 4th DOF as in surge.
When you accelerate you will get up and forwards and when you break you will get down a forwards.
I think the explanation regarding the motion is actually the opposite. When a car is moving forward, you are not pushed forward, instead your body experiences a gforce pull backwards due to the motion of the car and the only thing that is preventing you from going backwards is the seat... Newton's Law of Motion. Likewise if you ride a horse (obviously without a back rest), as the horse runs faster, more backward gforces are applied to your body which is why you need a harness to hold on to else you will fall backwards. Same goes with driving planes, if you do a nose dive and accelerate, your body is pushed backwards by gforces against the seat, without the back rest of the seat you may experience weightlessness which is used in movies where zero-g weightlessness is depicted. Simulator programs mimics the applied natural gforces on your body, not basing it on the resistance provided by the back rest of a seat.
They also hope to add heave motion before releasing making it 4dof then later adding sway and surge for full 6dof. Prices are expected to increase by 40% after Kickstarter.
Yaw have said the motion is dialled down to 30% in videos so motors plenty strong even on basic version. Pro version is all about usb and power connection built in for peripherals.
I can see the 360 rotation working ig this has USB/DP pass through functionality of some sort. So you plug in your VR/sim controlls to the chair directly
it has usb passthrough
Pro version does, but no HDMI or DP for VR headsets.
This dudes insight is invaluable
Thanks. I’ve had my eye on these for VR flight sims. I wonder if you could use Bluetooth USB adaptors for the flight controls. Then you’d be able to spin that thing indefinitely... or until you barf!
You can spin all the way around while being tethered. It has its own built in ports to connect your wheel and pedals so you only have one cable running out to the pc and one to power. And that is below the spinning motor. And the ports are on the seat with a built in clockspring i believe. At least that is what they are advertising as an optional add on.
Yeah thats the Pro version, still no HDMI or DP for wired VR headsets though and this is the only time you would want full rotation, if you were using a monitor it would be pointless! lol
I'm lucky i have something called positional vertigo, something about the crystals in your ears that controls balance, it makes me experience motion while not moving. Sometimes before i go to sleep in bed in feels like im a rollercoaster, its quite cool/fun not disorienting, although it is for most people. Makes playing flight sims in vr so much more fun.
Maybe this is the future of motion sims,having something that acts on the inner ear.hope it doesnt effect your life too much,my wife has it and makes her feel ill
Sounds like you've adapted well and rolled with it; pun intended 😉
I like the look of it, I like flight Sims as well as racing. I play almost exclusively in VR now so I think I would benefit from a device like this. The only reason I won't get one is because I just don't have the space. With any luck they may let you try one out.
This is why I wanted your opinion, I never thought of the fact that most DOF-like motion platforms expect you to already have a rig.
I didn't even think of the wires issue when I first saw this, that is such a good point! You can't keep spinning on the thing with all the wires from the wheel connected
The pro version has usb and power supply built into the yaw base. Wires are not and issue if you go with the pro upgrade.
Unless you run a wired VR headset of course.
@@KarlGosling Correct, but managing 1 wire is much easier than dealing with all of your peripherals as you suggested. You can also reverse the pitch, roll or yaw axis with a click of a button. So you can tune it for what feels right for you. Other than that it was a good conversation. I just wanted to clarify some misleading points. 👍
Brilliant stuff always interesting
When you tried those motion simulators, did you use Motion Compensation software? Also, the Yaw 2 will get an x-y axis platform so it can move you forwards and backwards and side to side. There will also be a z- axis platform that can move you straight up and down.
Fantastic review but I can’t see anywhere to buy the 3dof for 1500 ?
Thanks
Dave
Hi pal - which motion for platform would recommend for a Sim Lab P1X rig? Cheers
The way it needs to work is when you brake the chair pitches forward and slides backwards at the same time so you feel like your being thrown out of your seat
The problem with any of this is that we as drivers have no actual momentum or G force when we change direction as we're not actually in motion.
Even doing as you suggest (which could be cool!) is still pulling you in the opposite direction to where the force would be felt if we were actually in motion.
I think I finally get why you can't do 6DOF in 3DOF. It's a shame that it's backwards for our head/chest. When faking the acceleration. Thanks Karl!
your force explanation with the seat is correct, but i would like to add that it depends on the anchor point. with your seat this is true, but with the yaw2 the pivot point is higher up due to the rotation technique. here this wrong way feeling is much smaller. furthermore there are also the 6dof seats. these can even realistically represent surge and sway. at least for short moments, such as gas, brake jerks, or the short accelerating after a gear change. i also agree that forces that act in the wrong direction do not help the motionsickness, but the brain can also get used to these forces. then it is also normal for the brain.
Thanks taking time to share your thoughts, Karl! Especially that bit about feeling reversed inertia in a motion rig. As confusing as it might sound, that was probably the best explanation of that phenomenon. On that note, it may be that this cockpit-motion-rig might work better, in terms of motion, since it is only 3DOF. The body will feel rotational force, but no transitional force. Would it be that instead of feeling the seat pushing you forward, you'll feel the pull of gravity changing based on your rotation? This just might lead to more of a proper "back in the seat" feel when accelerating and "forward in the seat" when braking. Could be pretty nifty, given the 70 degrees of pitch!
I think the explanation regarding the motion is actually the opposite. When a car is moving forward, you are not pushed forward, instead your body experiences a gforce pull backwards due to the motion of the car and the only thing that is preventing you from going backwards is the seat... Newton's Law of Motion. Likewise if you ride a horse (obviously without a back rest), as the horse runs faster, more backward gforces are applied to your body which is why you need a harness to hold on to else you will fall backwards. Same goes with driving planes, if you do a nose dive and accelerate, your body is pushed backwards by gforces against the seat, without the back rest of the seat you may experience weightlessness which is used in movies where zero-g weightlessness is depicted. Simulator programs mimics the applied natural gforces on your body, not basing it on the resistance provided by the back rest of a seat.
@@DeepSleepRelax this whole explaination seems off.
300 quid shipping and VAT isn't included! that's another £340 on top, so just to have the Pro delivered (with a seat) it's £640 to the UK
Ouch! But then it is very big and heavy from a shipping point of view.
@@KarlGosling £640 Karl!!! lol
For what it does, if it works as good as its supposed to, the price is incredible. I've been in a 4DOF D-BOX rig that cost $20,000. It didn't simulate any g forces. The motion you feel is more in line with what the car chassis is doing
This can simulate some of the g forces with the pitch for acceleration and braking, and the yaw for turning
And they have a 4DOF option coming people can upgrade to before shipping. =D
Just for fun I drove my car around the block a few times and paid close attention to the forces I was feeling even the speedbumps.
When making normal left turns you feel the roll of the car changes ever so slightly to the right (maybe 2 degrees) as the cars weight shifts onto the right tires. You can actually see it as well i'm guessing the shocks would be more compressed on that side.
Most of the pitch motion is felt subtely too as the road slopes unevenly. (Again maybe a few degrees).
Less will be more for normal driving, when it comes to motion and the larger motions will be for taking hits, speedbumps, hills or angled roads in Daytona. (that last one will be so cool)
Its seems for the 360 rotation, the computer would have to be at the base on some type of swivel so it could rotate with the chair along with your controller cables. That would sure make flight and space sims interesting if they supported the technology. Some roller coasters tend to make me throw up all over the place when I get off of them. That is when I know it was a good ride. I wounder if this contraption would make me do the same thing. If it did, I would give them a 5 star review LOL.
wow great vid karl thankyou sir
I think it looks gr8 and would be fun in a plane too. I'd just be a little concerned with all my wires. Having a standard setup as it is with my usb to pc and power from wheel to mains is awkward as it is. Having my seat spinning around with all this would make me nervous 🤣🤣🤣
I think perhaps the chair doesn't push you forward but rather rotates forward to use gravity to simulate the feeling of the body going forwards and the chair moving backwards when braking and vice versa for acceleration.
Hope all is well mate, will you be doing a review on the new Fanatec dd wheel? You’re the only reviewer I trust with your honest unbiased opinions, thanks in advance
I will mate yes! I have to buy it on though so will have to wait for release.
Hmm I know this was uploaded a while back, but you do know that once the initial tilting motion's forces dissipate, the angle that the seat provides can pretty accurately portray the forces applied to drivers as they accelerate or decelerate? I understand that initial jerk forward or backwards can be confusing, but the way I see it, it does seem these types of motion system will be better in that regard compared to ones that simply tilt the seat since it is like spinning a ball that the user sits in.
Re wired wheels etc., I'm wondering if the pro/upgraded versions "USB hub" feature handles that. If they can provide a USB hub on the chair which everything can plug into, and have it connect to the base in the same way the rest of their hardware does, then that should solve that problem. Similar to how Fanatec do wireless wheels that can do infinite rotations. (That's done over IR which might not have enough bandwidth. Dunno. But there are other ways like ring connectors.)
It looks like a cool product and a great price. People can have a lot of fun with it, and it's cool how accessible this kind of hardware is becoming. Not for me, though. I'd want something more rigid for a direct drive wheel, and I'm guessing I'd be too heavy for it myself (lol). I also worry about motion crushing a cat, as they love to get involved in things I'm doing. It's bad enough with VR when it's our feet, let alone a big motorised thing that won't react to them at all (unless it has some kind of safety/detection thing that can react fast enough, but that sounds like a hard problem).
I would've killed for something like this as a kid, back when Out Run's chair was state of the art, and when that vapourware Konix Multisystem hydraulic chair was in all the gaming mags. But these days I'm not sure motion is worth it, although I wouldn't say no at the same time, if there weren't any compromises and it was cat-safe.
It has USB but not DP or HDMI. So wired VR is still a problem.
if anything ever comes from research into vestibular stimulation it could fix those prone to motion sickness from simulated g-force. it would take a lot of testing and i fear most would be hesitant to put a device that stimulates your inner ear via electrodes on their head.
Even if you don't get the pro version, you could use a raspberry pi and a program called virtual here with a battery for all controllers that use usb.
Late to the video, but the cable issue can be avoided by having the USB cable come from the ceiling. It won't get tangled since the unit doesn't completely roll or pitch you all the way around.
They should design their own peripherals that connect to the yaw rig via metal contact points, those metal contact points connect to the base via contact points within the rollers or motors, then the rigs base can be connected to pc via USB as those cables on the base won't have to move so won't get twisted when doing 360 degrees
Would be a good option! :)
Interesting video! As some have pointed out, cables are not a problem with the Yaw Pro, and you can add weights if you're not balanced correctly.
I do not agree, though, with the vid's reasons to why you may get motion sick, and that motion sims would need to pull you backwards when breaking - that would cause even more motion sickness as your inner ear would feel your body going backwards, the opposite of what's happening in the game. There are, however, motion simulators that tighten the belts when breaking, to get somewhat a feeling of breaking in a real car.
Yeah it's almost impossible to simulate motion (g force) realistically so no solution is perfect right now.
Motion Sickness: I think this might be slightly better than the alternative motion rigs...maybe. Since the Yaw2 can tilt quite considerable forward, backward, left and right, I reckon the weight of one's body might aid in realism of what motion the mind is telling the body to expect, and thus prevent the motion sickness effect in many scenarios. We'll have to wait and see when these actually ship to see if this is true or not.
You may well be right mate!
360 per second! Thatll give you whiplash
they have a specific spot in the back for balancing
When ever you're doing stuff to your rig or equipment, could you do what you did with fitting the motors on your pedals please dude?
It was really informative watching you do the entire thing, forgot to say that previously
Thanks mate yes I'll try to shoot everything! :)
Cheers Karl. At 16:40, the guy flying has no trailing wires. I'm wondering if all of the peripherals plug into the platform and there is a passthrough from the static base to the PC to allow for 360 degree movement. If this can hold an average to large person (weight wise) and does what it actually says without burning through motors, DD and load cell chassis flex and maintain a good price point, it's definitely a contender for a sim enthusiast.
Edit: When you talk about Accel and decel in a sim car. This platform would pitch backward for accel and forward for decel. No G-force but in this case, body weight transfer. I think it's the closest were gonna get. Also, for this to work, the monitor needs to be directly connected to the rig (or VR) for it to fool the brain.
They offer an add on option to plug your peripherals directly into the platform for more movement allowance
I should have scrolled down a bit. You made my point hours before I did AND you were way more concise. Cheers!
@@hadamana No worries. You've confirmed what I was guessing at. Good job.
Things have changed. A lot. Like $4600 shipped to USA a lot. Plus an optional mount that costs $400. So $5000 shipped for a rig that can’t do sway & surge. Hmm..
I was under the impression that the USB hub/connections would allow you to put all your SIM gear onto the rig and then connect it there with a USB on the outside that then goes to your PC. I am on the list for one of the Pro models so I will let you know when it comes! I have spent too much time already wondering how they made a USB cable be able to spin 360 indefinitely! I also would really like to get some multichannel sound on the rig too but it looks like maybe it will only be stereo. We shall see when it arrives ....
Pro model has a USB hub built in mate so you'll be good, it doesn't have HDMI or DP so still no good for wired VR though.
@@KarlGosling Using the Oculus Quest 2 over USB 3.2 so maybe ... if it's fast enough ...
To your point about the motion being unrealistic. I think the YAW 2 will feel significantly better than the typical 2dof using a fixed point below the rig since the center of rotation is somewhere in the middle of your body.
With braking as an example - the goal is to lean you forward so that gravity is pulling you toward the front of the rig. In the traditional setup since the rotation is below the chair the action of leaning you forward has an initial force against your entire body in the opposite direction you are expecting. With the yaw 2 since the rotation is in the center of your body you would feel the correct direction of force on the lower parts of your body and a much reduced incorrect force on your head.
It may well be mate yes! :)
Regarding the inverse motion experience of acceleration vs. deceleration... Just as with g-forces experienced when turning, in order for it to be proper, your body has to be moved/tilted in a direction that causes it to feel the motion it would expect, which is sometimes counterintuitive to what one might expect to see visually. Making a right turn for example, should have your body wanting to lean to the left, but in order for your side to feel like it's being pressed against, say, the left side of seat, the chair would actually need to tilt to the left, per the requirements if gravity. Same with acceleration and deceleration. When accelerating, the seat would need to tilt backwards so that you feel that pressure against your back. I would expect that the Yaw devs with all their research would be aware of this and implemented it the correct way and not inverted would they not? Additionally, not mentioned in the video is an available add-on (at least when I checked) that adds actual lateral 2-dof motion to the platform, so that it can actually move laterally forward and back, and side to side, in addition to just tilting, leaning, and spinning. I would think this could help a lot if properly implemented (I'll have to check their site to ensure I'm remembering this correctly). They also plan on an optional add on that adds vertical motion to the mix and I'm really curious as to how much this would add to the experience, again, if done properly. I don't think I've heard of any sims that provide telemetry for that kind of motion though, but maybe they'll start.
At the end of the day, the Yaw 2 is at an incredible price point and has a range of motion I've not seen in rigs costing 5x as much (though those tend to be more powerful, but not necessarily more accurate), so I'm really excited for it overall and hope it can live up to the hype. Wish there was a way to try ine before deciding whether to take the plunge.
Would you play other games like F1 and assetto corsa etc
70 degree pitch!! Makes me really want this for DCS World
Right???!! Freaking awesome!
@@stevetb7777 I couldn't even fathom takin the Cat into the vertical I would be grinning from ear to ear
500w vs 700 it’s not just a little bit of money maxed out is 2100 vs pro is 4000 -6000 plus shipping vat and taxes.
Hey Karl! You are correct about motion simulators not feeling exactly like the real world, but it's not for the reason that you suggested in this video. Motion simulators actually do a good job of replicating a real world feeling within certain limitations which I will attempt to explain below:
In the real world and with simulators the feeling you experience is all about acceleration. Simulators attempt to replicate the acceleration that you experience in the real word in the direction that you experience it. Because of range of motion limitations and the number of DOF that are simulated the overall replication suffers. Motion simulators use gravity (the acceleration toward the center of the earth at 1G) to provide the user a sense of motion. When a car brakes in the real world, the driver experiences the composite acceleration of braking (lets say at -1G ie pushing you forward in your seat) AND the acceleration downward due to gravity. This results in a feeling to the driver of being pulled downward towards the floorboard at ~1.4G at a 45deg angle. For a simulator to replicate this feeling it would need to tilt forward at a 45deg angle. However, because the simulator is using gravity to provide the feeling of acceleration it can only provide a maximum feeling of 1G (as compared to the 1.4G of real life). It would also be limited by the range of motion (the Yaw2 can't go 45deg forward) so in the case of the Yaw2 it would be even less. In addition, for the case of the Yaw2 there is a rotational acceleration from the simulator attempting to move you into the correct orientation that does not exist in the real world. In both the real world and with a simulator you experience pressure due to acceleration forward into the seatbelt when braking and pressure due to acceleration back into the seat when hitting the gas. It is not backwards as you stated in the video, it is just less and sometimes (like in flight and space simulations or anything less than 6DOF) not in the right axis (like when you are upside down). These concepts are difficult to grasp right away so please don't feel that I am criticizing you. To be fair I had to spend a lot of time studying this since I have degree's in both aerospace and mechanical engineering. Thanks for the video, I chose to back the Yaw2 and you did a good job on the pros and cons. I hope that you are able to get one to review at some point.
I think the explanation regarding the motion is actually the opposite. When a car is moving forward, you are not pushed forward, instead your body experiences a gforce pull backwards due to the motion of the car and the only thing that is preventing you from going backwards is the seat... Newton's Law of Motion. Likewise if you ride a horse (obviously without a back rest), as the horse runs faster, more backward gforces are applied to your body which is why you need a harness to hold on to else you will fall backwards. Same goes with driving planes, if you do a nose dive and accelerate, your body is pushed backwards by gforces against the seat, without the back rest of the seat you may experience weightlessness which is used in movies where zero-g weightlessness is depicted. Simulator programs mimics the applied natural gforces on your body, not basing it on the resistance provided by the back rest of a seat.
Thanks for your input mate, it's all very interesting to talk about! :)
I still think without actually having momentum from moving sat in sim rigs we feel the inverse from our chosen motion solution (or at least it doesn't feel quite right if you know what I mean?), IRL it's us that are moving forwards when we brake and whilst as you rightly say we pitch forwards and downwards we are not doing it because the seat pushes us.
We are not pulled backwards when the car moves forwards mate, your example of the horse shows this, as the horse pulls away from stationary (without a backrest like in a car) we stay in the same place and would fall off if we didn't hold on... we don't move backwards, the horse moves forwards.
In the plane example again we are not push backwards as it accelerates, the seat is pushing into us and forcing us to accelerate forwards with it.
At least this is how I understand it?! :) lol
@@KarlGosling The way I see it is, when you brake in real life, the g-forces push your body forward. In the simulator, gravity pushes your body forward, by tilting the seat. Real life obviously can't tilt, and the simulator can't accelerate, but ultimately you're feeling a force push your body from behind. So it's quite similar, but tilting can't match the true amount of g-forces from extreme acceleration.
I like the look of it but I don't think it would support my flight setup peripherals. I have some really large and heavy rudder pedals Thrustmaster Pendular TPR, plus a Honeycomb yoke, Bravo Throttle Quadrant with a Saitek radio panel mounted on it. I'd also be using a wired VR headset, All of that sounds like a recipe for disaster and possibly a fatal accident. The 2-degree model seems a bit more appealing for that reason.
I’m torn about it now. I think I’m going to cancel my order for the same reason.
Flash bastard with your Speccy 128 +28, I use to play a lot on the rubber keyed 48! I get why they've widened their demographic to include non-VR (better revenue potential) but not sure what it does to immersion moving around whilst your screen is static. Also if I play let's pretend I have money - I still wouldn't get one with my headset because I'd only use this for rally games where I'm not so timed obsessed and more just playing for fun because rally games in VR for me don't feel partially well optimised
lol got to show the old Speccy some love! :)
Yeah I don't think this would be great with a fixed screen, you'd have to restrict the range of motion a lot.
Thanks for sharing but a confusing discussion about G-force. When breaking in a car you feel like a negative G-force. It seems quite normal to be pushed forward, doesn’t it ?
No mate not at all, you are only ever pushed forwards under acceleration, especially so from stationary, that's literally what happens when we pull away in a car (just pause and think about it for a sec)... Braking cannot ever be simulated correctly because we will never have forward momentum to be then slowed down from (held back by our seat belts or harness as our bodies continue to move forward) it's impossible.
@@KarlGosling ok it makes sense.
What ‘s your feeling in a aircraft sim? Is the product worth it ?
Thank you
Is it sturdy enough for a DD wheel...
Probably not…. But you can build a bespoke 8020 rig on the seat platform. Wouldn’t cost too much and be nice and sturdy 👍🏻 that’s what I’m doing. Yawvr have released a video of this on their channel
@@marchellier1033 Im sure the weight wouldn't be th me issue, it can support that 500lb Atilla guy.
The devs say it can support like 350lbs
Didn't they talk about one point of the Pro version's USB hubs, bluetooth etc being a way to avoid cable twisting as well as there being space for balancing?
Agree about the movement simulation problem.
In more advanced simulation equipment you move forward while tilting back in a measured way so that the overall effect better reflects the reality. That obviously takes more room, more powerful equipment and greater engineering.
I hope to get one at some point though my finances won't accommodate that in the near future?
Perhaps even better equipment will be available by then though I fear things will be more obviously spiraling out of control and so remain beyond my meager means.
Sorry yes I wasn't clear in the video but the Pro version does have USB and mains power but alas no Dp or HDMI for wired VR headsets.
@@KarlGosling Of course! I beg your pardon.
If this thing does 360 in a second then you better have belts or you would get flung off the thing. That seems extreme to be moving that fast but if they can actually sell this for $1500 that’s a crazy cheap price. Not sure if they can do that. Aren’t most full motion rigs way more than that?
The one costing 1500 will be like 2000-2500 when it’s released
would you test this product and review?
Only if they send one over for review, I do not have the budget (being a small channel) to buy one in just for review.
The 6-dof motion system I built pushes the seat forward whilst rotating the seat back when accelerating and pushes the seat back when braking whilst rotating the seat forward. I found this works best. Interesting that other systems do the opposite. That would feel wrong.
Now that is interesting! Someone who has actually designed it to move as your car would move you in real life! I'd love to try this setup, I don't suppose you are in the UK?!
@@KarlGosling Actually, yes, I'm in the UK. I haven't allowed anyone, apart from myself, to test the simulator. I fully don't trust it yet. Currently, it's at a prototype stage physically and run from software called Sim Tools, plus its own bespoke firmware. It has a maximum power output of 4.5kW. That has to be tamed properly, otherwise it could hurt. It's open source and the author can be found at:
github.com/knaufinator/6DOF-Rotary-Stewart-Motion-Simulator
The thumbnail - would you let this man babysit your kids….?
So funny looking, Karl.
hahahah!
With the wired thing that's why they have the usb hub on the machine itself
Yeah as I said on the Pro version mate.
All good I didn't catch that. I have been checking this thing out because there are already people making stronger pedal and wheel mounts, and it just looks way more stable and the rubber wheel thing is gone. Looks like a belt system. I need something like this in my life. Lol.
They also have more optional pieces coming later. A surge platform being one wich is pretty awesome. So maybe it can be set up so when you accelerate the surge pushes forward while the seat tilts back creating that force that you were talking about. I'm acctually very curious now if the motion can be inverted because what you said makes tons of sense.
Reminds me of the old Space Harrier arcade pods
Yes!! :)
Finally someone realizes the non-sim usage of this product. I for one will be using this to play all of my arcade games. Daytona Usa 2 can't wait.
@@TrevorJones1 Too right - I think it offers immersion rather than simulation. I'm with you on Daytona USA and all of those classic coin ops.
no seat belts !? safety first!
Before you decide wether this is good for sim racing or not, its best that you check this video where a professional sim racer tried the YAW2 - m.ua-cam.com/video/4I0QPlAOKX8/v-deo.html
You have to take marketing video's with a pinch of salt as they are designed to promote the product.
Also you don't want a pro sim racers experience, you want a real life racers experience as they are used to feeling motion/g forces in a real car in real life and can tell us how realistic it is (or isn't), most sim racers have no idea as we've never raced in real life.
This guy in particular also mentions it's the first time he's used motion so has no reference point or experience with other motion solutions (NLR, D-Box, DOF Reality, etc.)
Not putting the product down at all, I think it's great for the money and will be loads of fun for a lot of people! :)
has anybody inverted the motion in the way you said as thats always been my reason for not thinking about motion set ups . good vid m8 . may be someone can write some program an you youtube guy"s can let us know if it works . think they should send you a rig to try anyhow .
I've the SimXperience GS-5 with G-Belt and it does everything the right way, but for MSFS 2020 I turn it off even there is support. This Yaw2 seems great for flight-sims because it really simulates the motion of a plane, but not a car. The actuators in common sim-rigs can only do 100 to 250 mm/s, which is very slow compare to 360° in a second, but the Yaw2 will probably fail with acceleration and just not simulating what you feel in a car.
I think the explanation regarding the motion is actually the opposite. When a car is moving forward, you are not pushed forward, instead your body experiences a gforce pull backwards due to the motion of the car and the only thing that is preventing you from going backwards is the seat... Newton's Law of Motion. Likewise if you ride a horse (obviously without a back rest), as the horse runs faster, more backward gforces are applied to your body which is why you need a harness to hold on to else you will fall backwards. Same goes with driving planes, if you do a nose dive and accelerate, your body is pushed backwards by gforces against the seat, without the back rest of the seat you may experience weightlessness which is used in movies where zero-g weightlessness is depicted. Simulator programs mimics the applied natural gforces on your body, not basing it on the resistance provided by the back rest of a seat.
@@DeepSleepRelax You can't simulate g-forces 100% authentic, but the GS-5 pushes me in the back while accelerating and release the back-plates on the brakes while the G-Belt is pulling. That's the only way to do it right. There are some platforms trying this with motion, so the seat moves back on the brake pulling the belt, but this can only initiate the brake effect and not hold it anywhere long enough.
I tried it but it feels even more wrong! lol
The platform has usb connection to computer
Yeah the Pro version does, still no HDMI or DP for VR headsets though.
Be OK for a bucking bronco game.
I don't think I could get use to spinning and rocking side to side ect..it's a no for me..I will stick to a normal cockpit cheers mate..good vid tho👍😊
Outside of VR perhaps, but when you have a VR headset on and can't see the outside/real world, the idea is for the motion to let you experience forces similar to what you'd experience actually doing the thing you're doing, whether that be racing, flying etc. Not to just rock you or spin you around randomly like some silly carnival ride. If they're successful in getting close enough, saying you couldn't get used to the motion is similar to saying you couldn't get used to the motion in real life. For a non-VR rig though, even with a wrap around 3 screen setup, I agree and think it would be fairly useless or an expensive novelty at best. VR however is a total game-changer and the Yaw 2 *should* add a lot to that experience. I admit to nat having tried the Yaw 2 myself though so I can only speculate. Cheers.
It needs a DP/HDMI pass-through, then it'd be perfect.
Would definitely help, otherwise wired VR is out the question.
Regarding the balance comment, they have slots in the back to add weights to balance it. ua-cam.com/video/61MD3bv1qeQ/v-deo.html
360 Yaw feature i am not interested as I only fly Fs2020, only need pitch and roll.
Don't know were you get the price of £1100 ???? If you buy one for the UK with shipping it will cost you just over £3000
This video is over a year old... things have obviously changed mate! lol
I initially backed this on Kickstarter, and canceled a few days later. I reckon the Yaw2 is ideal for Flight Sims, but maybe not quite suitable for Sim Racing.
why is it not for sim racing? here’s a recent video of a professional sim racer trying out the YAW2 - m.ua-cam.com/video/4I0QPlAOKX8/v-deo.html
@@DeepSleepRelax Yeah, that video was put out by YawVR, so that's not much more than marketing, IMHO. Again, I wrote "MAYBE not quite suitable"....once the actual reviews are in, I am happy to form a more concrete opinion.
It remains to be seen... but no doubt it is WAY more suitable for sim racing than the Yaw 1. The response time is waaaaay improved. This rig is way more sturdy. And there is going to be a more sturdy frame available for purchase or DIY to add heavier pedals and what not. Of course it's not a high-end $20,000 rig. For the money though, I think they are going to be hard to beat this round. No doubt this will be fun for a more arcade-like experience. Most simracers think less motion is better. This thing can be tailored of course.. but most people get this device not only for the price, but also because it provides way MORE motion potential than most. Anyway, looks fun. Can't wait to get mine!
@@stevetb7777 and the capability to transform it to a Zero-G workstation for productivity use. Which is very hard to find and is super expensive!
Karl says here that he is not a massive fan of motion. Ha.
Balance its important but they designed a space to put counterweight but do you think is the steering mount is strong enough for a DD wheel? And for Motion sickness did you lock the horizon in setting its really important for your brain match the game with the real world and if you see the video of sim racing and test of this particular motion chair you will notice that when he accelerate the motion chair goes up so your back push against the chair and when you brake it go directly at the opposite so you fell your seatbelt if you have one but for what i see this motion sim is really hard to set up due to it 360 degree and that is not 4 motor at each corner for what i see they seam to be to powerful and less precise feel due to is multiple setting to setup it will take time to feel right and precise with the game check this video there many information for sim racing ua-cam.com/video/4I0QPlAOKX8/v-deo.html and they don't precise if its tactile transducer cause seriously i don't think without my buttkicker or an equivalent i think its matter more for me than motion cause you feel the cars and for what i see in the video its seem to lacking of sensation.
You said in the video a couple of times that you will speak about why you got rid off your motion setup, but then you forget to even talk about it. 🤷♂️
To pay for his fanatec dd1.
Sorry yes to go towards my DD1 and it makes me slower.
I think your explanation regarding the motion is actually the opposite. When a car is moving forward, you are not pushed forward, instead your body experiences a gforce pull backwards due to the motion of the car and the only thing that is preventing you from going backwards is the seat... Newton's Law of Motion. Likewise if you ride a horse (obviously without a back rest), as the horse runs faster, more backward gforces are applied to your body which is why you need a harness to hold on to else you will fall backwards. Same goes with driving planes, if you do a nose dive and accelerate, your body is pushed backwards by gforces against the seat, without the back rest of the seat you may experience weightlessness which is used in movies where zero-g weightlessness is depicted. Simulator programs mimics the applied natural gforces on your body, not basing it on the resistance provided by the back rest of a seat.
Silly comment anyway as you can easily reverse motion in the software.
Have you tried that? Feels even worse in my testing.
I think this video is making me cancel my pre order. Honestly it looks like too much of motion plus the question of rigidity
I canceled too; but to be fair, you can dial down the motion if you'd think it's too much.
@@Polymer I’m sure we can but at this point I will wait for real world reviews not whatever is on UA-cam now.
@@MaherIbrahim but price might go much higher after kickstarter just like Racingcube simulator. anyway i already have Atomic A3($8500 2 dof simulator) but i want Heave and Yaw add on for Yaw2 at riculously low price so im not gonna miss the opportunity
I'm not sure what you mean by too much motion. The motion depends on user settings and preference, don't want motion? You can turn it down on the settings. Want to crank it up? You can also do that. As a matter of fact, if you check on the video where it shows the professional sim racer demo the Yaw2, the first part would show that there is not much motion going on that the driver even requested the motion to be increased, so I'm not sure what you meant by too much motion.
@@DeepSleepRelax it moves great distance in all directions I’m not sure my stomach can handle it.
99% of what you said is trash , i put my foot down in my M5 and it pins me to the chair not push me forward ,as for cables wrapping round you would connect them to a simple eye hook to the ceiling , no flex on that tray unless your the hulk..
You don't think you're car pushes you forward when you accelerate FORWARDS, are you in reverse?! lol
You mean just how we do in VR... Which then results in twisted, broken cables unless you count your turns and make sure you return to centre each time.
You obviously haven't used or tested many sim racing cockpits, maybe check out some video reviews.
Thrill seeker tried playing Elite Squadron with a Spinning VR chair a ceiling hooks and he joke about being on Reddit after being strangled with cable while playing in VR, the majority of the comments pointed out the ceiling hooks as a major flaw.
Also not a lot of people could logistically make ceiling hooks works as it's such an anomalous factor e.g. ceiling height, strength, mounting points etc