True Warrior - A Vinland Saga Analysis
Вставка
- Опубліковано 22 чер 2021
- An analysis on Thorfinn's character and some of the themes of Vinland Saga
Music Used:
Lights Of Elysium by AERØHEAD | / aerohead
Music promoted by www.free-stock-music.com
Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported
creativecommons.org/licenses/...
This and every video I upload is only intended for mature adults.
Please LIKE, COMMENT, SUBSCRIBE
MERCH: merch.streamelements.com/real...
PATREON: / realliferyan
Twitter: / realliferyan_
Instagram: / realliferyan
Discord: / discord
"Dont stay stuck in such a boring place for the rest of your life. Go beyond the sea, become a true warrior... son of Thors" - Askechad
When he said that I cried hard b
@@stefanquintana5165 I didn't cry, but damn I was close. Choked me up. Vinland Saga hits so hard with emotions. It's fucking beautiful. The ending where Thorfinn dropped the knife had me a little teary-eyed as well.
thought it’s just a misspelling then realized askelad is a fk chad
there is so much depth to what askelad said here. ever since he met thors, he asked him to become their leader. Not just the leader of his viking crew, but the leader that he would put on the throne like he did for Canute. Askelad wanted to become a true warrior like Thors but he knew he couldn't. It was too late for him. But even so, he wanted Thorfinn to become like Thors. He remembered Thors even 10 years later. He respected Thors more than anyone else even though he pretended to forget him to get Thorfinn mad. Throughout the rest of the series, when people hear "son of Thors", they think of the Troll of the Jomsvikings and his prowess in fighting and killing. But Askelad thinks that being the son of Thors means inheriting his transcendence into becoming a true warrior, into creating a peaceful world for the meek and vulnerable.
Mmmmmmmm m mom a5.
Thorfinn tries to create a peaceful land. If he brought weapons and they were to be used, he fails. He's not foolish, he's determined.
Tbh all that says is he's an idealist, not a realist
No, he is a fool and will realize this in the end. Peace without weapons is a fantasy, the only motive for the peace we have is nuclear weapons. Sadly, it seems that fear is the base of peace in this world.
Better be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener in a war.
@@rG1vZ exactly 💯💯
I think Thorfinn's admittedly idealistic opinion on not bringing weapons to Vinland is also influenced by the time of the setting. This is a world before firearms, and he knows for a fact that he can improvise and defend himself and his people barehanded if it really comes down to a fight, so he isn't just accepting death if danger does show up. However, most of the men that came to Vinland with him were raised in a warrior culture, and just having weapons with them will tempt them to seek to use them, not to defend themselves but to attack whoever they happen to encounter, because they still think of war as something that brings honor and glory. At this point in his life Thorfinn has the knowledge to discern when and how to fight, but most people don't.
This. Is not like they are using sticks and the other guys are awaiting them with machine guns and missiles. Also, the believe that because you have weapons you are prepared for violence is also not true. As someone that had lived war, my father had a gun with him all the time, and just because he had it, that didn’t meant that he wasn’t kidnapped.m, or that he could defend us. That even made thing worse because he having a gun means that they will be more violent towards us given the case.
Bad things happen and you are not going to be always prepared. If your take is to be realist, then you still have to be the most aggressive and violent of them all so nothing caught you off guard, and that is not a way of living. At least not for the most of us.
Thorfinn's dad is a monster. His whole a true warrior needs no sword attitude works for him because he's strong enough to tank hits that most people would consider a 1 hit KO. Thors has 90% the skill of Askellad, 90% the power of Thorkel and 90% the speed of Thorfinn, he has majority of the strongest attribute of the specialists and is overall the strongest.
Thors saying a true warrior needs no sword is like if a modern day human that was immune to bullets said a real marksman needs no gun.
Yeah you can easily sharpen sticks and have a decent fighting chance at this time. Villagers killed samurai and ashigaru all the time even in the sengoku era by rushing them with bamboo cut at an angle.
A true king never seeks war, but he is always prepared for one.- Odin
Um who’s gonna tell him
Odin 💀
Of all people
“always prepared for one”
but not in Vinland💀
@@doob. sun tzu
I truly miss the Prologue and the Slave arc. The clash of philosophies and character growth is written masterfully at the start of the story. Not that I dislike how it was handled in the following arcs or now with the Natives, but Yukimura was in full control of his story early on. Reminded me of the Farm arc from Vagabond and how the protagonist’s views on violence change completely from that point on.
Well you will be able to watch it soon since S2 has been announced
@@nousername6810 LESSSSSGOOOOO
The current arc has a lot of potential, by the end, it may surpass the prologue and slave arcs.
The current arc is going to be amazing. I really, really like where Yukimura has things going with these latest chapters. I can't wait to see it come together. I love the way he's handling things with the natives. I was a bit worried he was going to just have Thorfinn become a (well-meaning) colonizer and ignore issues with western colonization and the Native Americans, but I'm not surprised since he's expressed such beautiful ideals in the past arcs.
If you've read the recent chapter (191), it very much showcases how this arc really is building up to be yet another interesting clash of ideologies. Ivar until this point has always been portrayed as just another bloodthirsty warrior. However, we start seeing why he truly dislikes Thorfinn. A good leader must not seek war, but must always be ready for it. Thorfinn, by forsaking all weaponry, leads himself and his entire country vulnerable. The situation isn't the same as it was in the Baltic Sea war where Thorfinn can navigate himself and a tiny crew of people around war. He has an entire population to take care of now. The prologue taught Thorfinn about the lust for violence. The farmland arc taught Thorfinn about the consequences of violence and the value of peace. The Baltic Sea war taught Thorfinn the difficulties of its shackles and futility. This arc feels as if it's going to teach Thorfinn the necessities of violence. I cannot wait to see how the story concludes.
I think Thorfinn will find a balance. Yes he may be naive but having his philosophy tested so much has definitely helped
He's not naive though he's idealistic, it would be naive if he knew nothing of the world and how it works but we know that isn't true he very much understands how the world works and how the cycle of violence works he must break the cycle by not letting it ever start in the first place, which is why he banned weapons
@@Dell-ol6hb well it is naive in the fact that realistically someone will try and kill them if they're anything like the average raider at the time and yea that's hella likely
@@griffithdidnothingwrong7117 thats why chapter 148 exists. thorfinn is put to test with this with floki. and thorfinn picks up his sword again to defend. thorfinn has seen the entire world and gone through enough experience to know what kind of people exist. thats why he remains quiet when einar mentions that. vinland is an idealistic place, where its not possible for slavery and vikings to enter. its so far that not even vikings can touch it, and its a home for the helpless.
thorfinn says that if people wanna kill each other for the fuck of it, let them kill each other. no one is stopping vikings to kill each other. but his lifelong dream is to not let the innocents,women and children and poor people to be entangled in the warrior's mess. he wishes to free them from this torment
People who think the farmland arc is bad bc it’s “boring” obviously didn’t understand the point of Vinland Saga, and also didn’t understand what Thors was trying to teach Thorfinn and us also as a reader.
I know most fans don’t feel the same way, but I really love the Baltic War arc. It presented Thorfinn with incredible tests of the resolutions he made on Ketil’s farm. The chapter where he finds out Floki was his father’s killer is incredible, but the one where he meets Floki is even more intense. Even Hild is astonished at his rage and bloodlust, yet he somehow calms himself. There are incredible moments from side characters like Sigurd and Baldr, there’s a pure psychopath in Garm, and there’s Thorfinn looking back at his former self in Hild, Thorkell, perceptive as he is, catching on to Gudrid being in love with Thorfinn. But some of the most impactful moments go to unnamed characters:
- the soldier who finds out *after* dying that there is no Valhalla
- the soldier who finds out *before* dying that he might have wasted his life
- the two soldiers who are on opposing sides but survive the war and can’t seem to understand what the fighting was all about
Makoto Yukimura takes a huge risk in presenting his philosophy through unnamed characters who get only a few panels, but in those panels he makes them full-fledged people.
I think it is in the Baltic Sea, not at Ketil’s farm, where Thorfinn truly becomes who he is meant to be. Anyone can make resolutions; it’s keeping them when tempted otherwise that makes them real.
In the Baltic Sea Arc, Thorfinn becomes a true warrior. His father ran away from the Jomsvikings; Thorfinn disbands them. Thus, he goes even further, just like his other father asked him to.
and not type of person i like
Well said man
I really liked the two dudes on opposing sides of the war having a calming conversation with each other
@@soc7967 That was Thors’ “you have no enemies” distilled into a few panels.
shit got real when the dude who died basically just wanted to warn the others that valhalla wasnt real
God tho the part where Thorfinn meets his mother again after so long, and she says he looks like Thors, I cried 😭
I always thought Thorfinn in the Prologue is just as important, if he hasn't understood violence he would have never been able to overcome it, also the fact that he was a violent killer makes his redemption much more meaningful
I’m completely caught up in the Vinland saga manga and I can confidently say this is one of my all time favorites. It’s something that hasn’t really been done before and it’s honestly taught me a lot as well, I was always told as I was growing up that the pen is stronger than the sword and this story really helped me to understand that. Also the art is breathtaking and how it’s historically accurate to a degree
Thorfinn's struggle resonates me with me so much because I have to remind myself every day that I don't need to be confrontational like everyone else. At least not in the rude mannered way a lot of people are about it, being confrontational can be productive depending on the situation and how you handle it. But my main struggle is staying true to myself because I'm a very peaceful guy at heart, it's just hard to shake the idea of "well everyone else is doing it so I have to as well.". It's so hard to just be content with the idea that I am who I am, I don't like fighting people.
I just had to slow down and evaluate everything today, a lot was going through my head and it didn't feel good. I literally went out of my way to find a video summarizing Thorfinn cause I remembered what he taught me about myself when I read this story over a year ago.
If you don’t like confrontation you should seek it out, you never know when it will arrive at your door.
You need to know you are capable of facing confrontation because if you don’t you will never know if your a pacifist because of weakness or because of virtue.
Thorfinn was a warrior who decided to pursue peace over war. If your afraid to be a warrior you never get to chose. You’re at the mercy of the world
I dread the moment it all comes crashing down. History tells us the Vikings ultimately failed to settle. So I dread seeing Thorfinn fail, even though I know it’s inevitable.
“This is how experts play” loved that quote
Very good Analysis on Thorfinn's character.
Yes, his current philosophy and his current self may be foolish but he wants to try, he wants to gamble on that chance. To see if it can work or not. He wants to see that with his own eyes. He is an extremist. He has been through it all and now he wants to take it one step further. He wants to see if he is able to create a land, a village without fighting/violence. As a whole, he is a very good character who is trying to "achieve" the impossible in a land that is far away.
He is constantly challenged with that after the farm arc. With Gudrid, Hild, Garm and Floki, etc.
His development is not over. Not until the final chapter.
Keep up the good work, Ryan and cheers!
The problem is that Thorfinn's ideals are more important than his friends/family. It'd be fine if he only risked his own life, to pursue his pacifistic ideals. But he's risking everyone's lives on it. Realistically, all his friends would've either been killed or sold as slaves in the Baltic Sea arc. Becouse Thorfinn refused to defend them.
@@beastvicious8672 Eh, i dont think that his ideals are more important than his friends and family.
What you said about his friends being turned into slaves is true in a way, but Thorfinn came and saved them, so nah. This current arc they are there together and if anything happens Thorfinn can save them, hell even Einar and Hild are there. But we have to wait and see how it all plays out. This arc is made to test him fully.
@@SageCortez Thorfinn saved his friends becouse he's superhuman and forced plot-convenience. There's no way a guy can dismantle 3 people who has swords, with his bare hands. And then gets to preach about pacifism and rightousness. No, that's not how the real world works. He'd be dead on the ground and his friends would be sold off becouse he refused to use weapons. But this show is a power fantasy now, so he can do whatever he wants without consequences.
It's similar with Thors too. His ideals were more important than his family. He could've killed Bjorn and returned with his son. But instead he put his ideals above them and it got himself killed. Then Thorfinn went through all the suffering we've seen. Ylva and Helga now had it a lot harder and suffered due to his absence as well. And Thorfinn could've easily been killed by Askeladd or some other way. It's extremely lucky for Thors, that Thorfinn has survived. He had no way of knowing that, when he sacreficed himself. But he was willing to risk Thorfinns life, for pacifism.
@@beastvicious8672 Thors would have been dead either way lmao. There were many men that were on Askeladd's ship and also the archers. They were still up there. So yeah, Thors would have been dead either way.
Thorfinn is a skilled vet/warrior so ofc hed know how to dismantle 3 people who are slow. Thorfinn fought Askeladd, Snake, Thorkell, etc.
Nah, the story aint power fantasy at all lmao.
There will be consequences.
BSW had Garm, Hild, Floki, Jomsvikings, the whole war. Thorfinn could have been killed in BSW, but he survived. Current arc we have Eyvar and his men bringing weapons, we have the natives, and many other things that can lead to conflict or disagreement.
You have many factors that could play a role. If you have read the latest chapter, then you would know.
The whole environment, disease, sickness, the natives not trusting the norse, anything.
Thorfinn will do everything to protect his family and he will also do whatever is needed to ensure that there will be peace, BUT will there be a moment where he cannot do anything, meaning that he will be out of control? Yes, there might be.
The series has 2/3 years, max 4 left, so anything can happen. There is also Real Llife history as well.
@@SageCortez If Thors had killed Bjorn, he wouldn't have captured Thorfinn and Thors would've won the duel. He'd have a chance of escaping with Thorfinn.
What real person is able to dismantle 3 guys with swords? I've never heard of that happening in real life. It's pure fantasy. Which alone, i don't really mind. But it's his attitude afterwards preaching pacifism, that makes it power fantasy. The rules of reality doesn't apply for Thorfinn. It's very easy to preach when the rules don't apply to you, but it does for everyone else. If i went out against 3 guys with swords, just with my bare hands. I'd get killed instantly, so would you and everyone else. Doesn't matter how great a fighter they are.
I never said Thorfinn couldn't improve and the current arc not having a realistic approach. We've yet to see that. But for the baltic sea arc, pacifism wasn't very well handled imo.
Great video, but I disagree with your point about weapons. Torfinn doesn't say not to bring any weapons. Spears and axes are allowed in vinland, but swords aren't. I think that he does this because spears and axes have other uses, like hunting, or chopping wood. But swords only have one function, and that's killing. He doesn't ban swords because he thinks that self defence won't be necessary, he bans them because of what they represent.
yes and for the hyper-masculine warrior culture of the Norse violence is just seen as another normal part of life that men must do, as he says the sword whispers in the ears of men "to draw me", by the mere action of drawing a sword you declare to all your intent to commit violence because that is the sole purpose of a sword
this is easily my most favourite video on youtube by far. i love thorfinn and i love how well articulated this video is. amazing
I don’t know anything about Vinland Saga. However, here is a comment to help out in the algorithm.
Thanks! 👊
Great analysis, I like how Throfin has attributes from both his father figures: Thor’s and Askeladd. I like the position he is in with bringing no weapons in the new arc although it feels naive . I think it won’t work and we will see him try and find a solution.
this video was amazing. so many gems. not even just in analogy of the show, but even for life in general
Just finished the video in its entirety. What an amazing analysis. Really helped me understand the series better and why I liked them so much. Thank you!!!!!!
I’ve actually been wondering about how Thorfinn’s ideology would fit in the modern world. Something that I’ve thought of is how punishment would be handled according to his ideals. If we took Hitler or any other terrible human being for example and decided we want to punish them for their heinous actions, how would thorfinn act here? Would he just exile them like Floki? Because that would definitely be too weak of a punishment, would he make them go to prison or would he use violence as his “last resort” and just outright sentence them to death?
I am actually so thankful for this video. So much of the community seems to just ignore the line that he is pushing and I am just glad to hear someone echoing the thoughts in my head that he is clearly going to hit some form of trouble with this way of thinking. I love the idea of trying to grow past his previous self but you are just at the mercy of those with weapons at this point
The analysis delves into the complex character of Thorfin in the series "Vinland Saga," highlighting his evolution from a vengeful youth to a person striving for peace. The creator, Makoto Yukimura, aims to challenge the traditional warrior archetype by setting his protagonist in a violent Viking era yet having him actively seek non-violent solutions.
Thorfin's philosophy is shaped by his diverse experiences, including his time in war and slavery. This multifaceted background allows him to gain a holistic understanding of violence and human nature, leading him to believe in finding peaceful solutions to conflicts.
The video argues that true strength comes from the ability to resolve problems without resorting to violence, but acknowledges that one must understand violence to rise above it. Thorfin isn't a coward; he is a warrior who is attempting to redefine what it means to be a warrior.
While the video generally praises Thorfin's ideology, it also criticizes his decision to go unarmed into a new land, questioning the practicality and risk associated with such an extreme form of pacifism in a world that may not reciprocate it.
The analysis concludes by stating that creating is harder than destroying and that Thorfin embodies the phrase "a true warrior needs no sword." It also suggests that, despite the risks, Thorfin's commitment to non-violence marks a significant shift in how warrior figures can be portrayed in media.
Vinland Saga is great. But I feel some parts were rushed. Like the travel to Greece which we never saw. And the travel to Vinland could have been fleshed out a little more.
I thought the same thing, but I realized it wasn’t really about getting to vinland it’s about what he does there and will it succeed. Plus the story is 16 years old lol maybe he’s trying to fast forward a but
if he showed the whole journey to greece it would've been like 4 years until he finished that arc lmao
I wouldn't mind just one anime original episode about his merchant journey. I wanna see stuff like how Einar acquires the statue
Thorfinn might not be my favourite main character of all the manga characters I've known, but he's definetely the one I respect the most.
Amazing review as always appreciated very much
THIS VIDEO I'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR, FOR SO LONG!!!
I watched this a while ago, and there has been one line that has stuck with me is at 7:23 I think that I hadn't read that far yet, so I didn't want a spoiler or something like that so I clicked off the video until I read that part, but then realized I couldn't find the video again and what you said at that time marker has been what I was trying to find lol.
Beautiful analysis and video. Well done!
Great video bro i bet even thorkell was pleased keep it up 👊
At 7:38 this is also one of my favorite scenes in the manga a close up would be the scene after a battle had finished and two enemies were having a conversation
I haven't watched the video yet, (I will, after this comment), but I think Thorfinn is comparable to Guts in terms of them defying something bigger than them. Guts defies fate and causality by fighting back and keeping on living despite being branded, and comparably, Thorfinn defies the war-oriented values and social norms of his time by keeping a pacifist stance and using violence as a last resort after his well-deserved character development. And it's fine that Thorfinn is an idealist. He admits that he doesn't have all the answers, and that's alright. For a man who is seeking redemption, he is learning to be more patient when it comes down to the important stuff. Many people get irritated with Thorfinn because his views are impractical--but that's exactly the point of his story. He is a man seeking for redemption, trying to live with values he believes in despite society telling him that he's supposed to succumb to these norms. Thorfinn fights, but he fights for what he believe is the right thing to do. He's the perfect example of how kind people are not naturally born but forged by hardship and struggle.
Well They are both gigachads
Normally I don't care how characters ends as long as the story is beautiful.
I read a lot of manga, from Homunculus to berserk, from berserk to real, from real to monster, from monster to Vinland Saga, ECC...
But this time I really want to see Thorfinn succeed.
Even if it is so impossible I want him to subvert the expectation, because at the end of the day Vinland Saga is about choosing Love and peace over violence and find another solution that it isn't war, homicide and cruelty.
Vengeance is worthless, it will not build or make you feal better, we should all learn from Thorfinn.
In this moment Thorfinn is creating something so beautiful that it's incredible (be it against god or expectations), for one time let it be, an ending don't have to be dramatic to be good.
(sorry for the bad english, i'm still a beginner)
I just finished Goodnight punpun and Homunculus, maybe that is influencing me... (i would love an ending that bless the heart right now)
Very good analysis and you are spot on.
Farmland/Slave arc is pure Kino!!!
I plan to reread vinland saga sometime this summer and this video makes me wanna do it now goof vidoe man
Yes
I wouldn't be upset at the idea of you of going through this series similar to berserk with chapter reviews and stuff. Huge vinland saga fan would totally watch ⌚
I think it takes about the same amount of effort to destroy as it does to build. Destroying just seems quicker. Think of the amount of effort that went into a Norse raid. They had to build a ship, weave and sew the sail, rig the ship (with hand made ropes), forge weapons, gather warriors, sail/row across the ocean, fight their asses off, sail/row back across the ocean (often with less crew). Sounds like work to me.
Plus, people forget why people fight. Vikings weren't just going out to fight for no reason. They went across whole oceans because there was no land left to put a farm on in Scandinavia. All the good tillable land was already taken. That's why they went and settled in Ireland, France etc. The religion was there to give them courage in battle. Give them a carrot for the stick of war. But, the real reason for the war was lack of resources.
What I'm trying to get at is that people get into fighting for reasons. They may have good reasons. They may have bad reasons. But, very few real conflicts in human history were fought just because. Not fighting unless you have too is good. But, you have to understand why people fight if you want to not fight.
Exactly. People tend to think of vikings as dumb brutes, who just fought becouse they were evil and primitive. There's a lot more to it than that. They didn't have the luxury of having endless water, food supply and clothes, etc. No welfare system. They had to fight to survive and if they didn't it's just too bad. Not to mention the vikings were some of the most advanced people of their time. They were even more cleanly than the english.
People often say that vikings just beheaded people on a whim, if someone said something they didn't like. A bit of contect is again, their living conditions were very difficult. Which means they would need people they could depend on. If there's a coward in your midst, your entire family's lives would be at stake. Loyalty and solidarity was the utmost virtue of the vikings for that reason. It wasn't simply becouse they were bloodthirsty savages. Not to say those didn't exist, but i'm pretty sure they'd be far from the norm.
Well, if you think about it, they still *built* created those ships, weapons, and armor. Then used them to destroy and kill
Thorfinn definitely understands all that
I thought the same thing when I saw Fist Of The North Star. But that was until I read Beserk.
What did you think before and how did it change after reading berserk
I was here for Berserk content from someone equally passionate as me, but I stayed for the overall content, I'm a regular now, keep it up
Great analysis
I like Eyvar's point in the Vinland Settlement arc. He is absolutely correct. They are both right. Thorfinn is right when he says that weapons carry with them an allure to be used. Settling things with violence is much easier than settling things with words. It only takes one emotional person, one severe drunk, to cause mayhem.
But Eyvar is correct as well. The reason why weapons work is because they are a strong deterrent, and we see that in our own personal history. Peace is kept with hegemony of violence. By carrying a weapon, you dissuade people from picking a fight, showing them that you have the means with which to defend yourself. Eyvar himself does seem to realize that Thorfinn's desire for a land free of violence is noble, and a good cause. But he also understands that when worst comes to worst, you can't be caught with your pants down, because that could mark the end of everyone's lives.
"It’s better to be a warrior in the garden than a gardener in a war."
Love the analogies given
Great video dude
I feel like a warrior whenever I’m in the octagon but I know it’s no where near actually fighting for your life like how it was for people back then or even in war
Yes.
Well written, thank you.
I was expecting after the anime season 1 he'd become a fighter for good or something and ima be honest what motivated me to read the manga was learning there was a love interest in google images. And i read the manga from ch 1 seeing that the manga is alot less censored but i think it was better to get something different than we usually do with anime and feel the real threat of fighting in vinland. and it showed me perspective you know. what is a true warrior and people all had a different opinions on that. Different ways of life and how to live it and what will that make you? The conflict between comfort and pride you know. I appreciate vinland showing the nature of men. and it's an enlightening story. I'm grateful it decided to do something different at the very least. And this video helped break the story down even more. The idea of someone who can fight choosing this path vs someone who just fears it.
Great video!
I believe it's apparent that the author himself recognises Thorfinn's idealism is almost naive and impossible. It's an incredibly high bar for humans, and he demonstrates that by not pandering to the dream and continuously challenging the very idea he wants to promote.
8:44 I agree with your viewpoint but as others have pointed out, I feel like part of the reason Thorfinn didn't bring any weapons was because he didn't want to be tempted by them because they would be way too easy to fall back on. So now he's forced to find his own path
But at the same time, I can also see Thorfinn having 1 weapon of his own just in case in the future (maybe get Thors knife back somehow, when he's truely 'worthy')
I’m so glad I caught up the Vinland Saga manga and hopefully the Vinland arc doesn’t disappoint
so far the Vinland arc is good, has lot of potential
This is Cultural Appreciation! Viewing European culture through Japanese philosophy.
Much love to anyone reading this
Might've already said this before, but the pacifism is a bit too much for me. Not to say pacifism is bad, but there's a time and place. I think this was an issue even with Thors character. Let's be realistic, if Thors had killed Bjorn, then he wouldn't have died. And all the suffering Thorfinn went through afterwards, wouldn't have happened. I know the story would've been over if it played out like that, just saying Thors made a bad call here. Also think of all the extra work Helga and Ylva had to endure, when Thors was no longer there. His entire family was dependant on him and he was extremely lucky Askeladd didn't just kill or sell Thorfinn and the rest of the crew after he died. Thorfinn suffered becouse of Thors ideals and the show never even acknowlegdes that. I like Thors, but woud've been nice if he had been criticised just a little bit. Rather than making him this almighty guru that can do no wrong, as the author seems to imply.
Also the phrase "no one has any enemies" is the dumbest line in the entire show. Thorfinn rightfully calls him out on it. Just as in the animal kingdom, there's predators. If you have something valuable, chances are someone else might wanna take that from you. Or someone will just attack you, based on who you are. Everyone has enemies, it's unavoidable. It's always been that way and always will be.
I did say pacifism wasn't always bad and in the farming arc it worked very well. Reason is becouse Thorfinn only risked his own life and the stakes were a lot lower. He can afford to stand there and let someone punch him. Even if he died, it wouldn't have been a consequence for anyone else. Also he was able to negotiate and make a deal out of it. They weren't mercenaries sent to kill him, which makes this situation very different from Thors.
In the baltic sea arc, Thorfinn declines a lot for me. Now when people are sent to kill him, he refuses to defend himself. And this time it's not just a consequence to himself, but everyone he's with. Him being able to take on 3 people with his bare hands as they're using swords is also extremely unrealistic. I know it's an action manga and all, though this story is about dealing with things in a realistic manner for the most part. It's not a supernatural world like Dragon Ball, Naruto or HxH. Which is why this really doesn't work here. You can't have an invinsible superhuman preach about peace and love, without it feeling like a preachy self-indulging power fantasy. This is not an outcome that is viable in the real world. In the real world, Thorfinn would've died and all his crew would've been sold as slaves as a result of him not fighting. But Thorfinn gets to have his cake and eat it too. Not becouse he was smart, but becouse of plot convenience.
For the current arc, so far i'm pretty neutral on Thorfinn. Don't agree with his choice to not bring weapons, but i'll try to keep an open mind and see where it goes. I'm hoping he will have development similar to Canute. Where he's gonna have to make some hard choices, where pacifism isn't the answer for everything couse that's just suicidal.
Stunningly good take on this for a UA-cam comment section. I completely agree.
It's also why despite me loving Vinland Saga it will always pale in comparison to Berserk.
Vinland Saga despite being about Northern European history, could only be written by a modern day Japanese person as they're probably the only country in the world with the abundance of comfort and lack of violence to be able to hold such naive and childish views.
Source (I live in Japan).
That's not even touching on the fact that they are currently militarily occupied by a force that regularly commits rapes and assaults out on their population with impunity.
@@0hpitym3 Thank you. I appreciate the compliment! Areyou talking about rape in Japan? I haven't heard of that. Thought they were one of the countries with the least amount of crime.
@@0hpitym3 who's occupied?? Please elaborate
I'm gonna call bs on the "no one has any enemies" bit. We humans are so much more than wild animals, we can solve our problems through non violent means. It is the hard way, it's absurdly hard, and in most societies (not gonna say all because I don't know all of them) anyone who tries to spread this peacefull view will have to face the fact that everyone else doesn't think in the same way, and that some sort of violent act to get what everyone wants is extremely common, but it _doesn't have to be that way_ . That's what thors is saying when he claims thorfinn doesn't have enemies, every human _chooses_ their enemies, but that's not the only way.
Thors himself is the demonstration that the peacefull way is absurdly hard. He tried, but the rest of the world didn't care about what he had to say. His actions did lead to the suffering of his family, but how many more people would have been hurt if he decided to fight? And if you want to argue that the people thorfinn kilked are thors' responsability, then that's also wrong, because none of vinland saga as we know it would have happened, if thorfinn returned to iceland with leif. His choiche to have an enemy, aka askechad, lead to all the deaths.
I think thors' pacifism is a beautifull utopia, something we should try to achieve, but isn't realistically applicable in our world, and we should fight to get closer to it imho
I understand what you are saying but I think you are way to biased by "reality" or your reality thors choose to die because if he did not everyone else on that ship would have infact if he fought probably maybe only he would have survived, now I will agree that you can't be 100% a pacifist but even thorfinn agrees and he wants to find a way to save not just his life but his enemies as well, his line about he has no enemies is great to me because even tho all those people where very hostile towards him he choose by the most uncomfortable way possible to make everyone understand his stance and also he was renforcing it to himself he could have easily beaten that guy but went the hard way to show everyone that getting beat up or beating people up isn't fun it's not assuming it's just bad and everyone at the end regrets why they choose the bet and they all acknowledge thorfinn as a warrior, now your point about realism is kinda not strong thorfinn is always shown to be above the average viking and him surviving in the way he does albeit not fully realistic is to show his resolve and his experience when he fights it's not just protect himself he puts the other person down so they can live also and thorfinn has been shown to survive in a battlefield so 3 people attacking him with intent to kill is not new, I think the series always pushes the idea of violence even self defense as a last resort, there are many times where people can resolve issues without violence but because they let anger or pride or the hard choice stop them they take basically the easy path
The 12th volume in English is going to release soon. I can't wait.
I just bought my Vinland Books up tp 7, can't wait for the rest of the current collection
Really good video
This is the best video on the internet.
Question for the essay author. Do you think your disagreement with Thorfinn's motivation of no weapons could stem from you being someone from the USA? I am not assuming your stance on the gun issue in America. But I wonder if this would have an influence in your thoughts about how there will be people that can harm you therefore you need to have a means to defend yourself. It might be similar in that sense. but I also think Thorfinns motivation for not bringing weapons is still a form of fighting, to believe that there will be no need for weapon, and to continue being kind in a cruel world is a form of fighting it.
Ryan to Thorfinn, “Nooo, keep that thang on you, homie!!!”
"The work of destruction is quick, easy and exhilarating; the work of creation is slow, laborious and dull."
God I love Vinland Saga
5:40: - Yoda: “The jedi uses force/ the force for defence/knowledge, never to attack”……
I think.🤨
Thorfinn never said to not use violence, he mentioned many times that Violence should be the utmost last resort in a conflict.
9:20 sometimes the weapon is not the danger its the people whom wields it, but the weapon makes it worst.
better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener at war.
Yeah vinland certified for sure
Carve it!
I'm still early in Vinland. What I've read is so good tho.
Anyone know a website to watch the Vinland Saga online?
10/10 video omg
Thank you! 👊
i would love more of thors, after the whole askelad plot was done, the manga just didnt do it for me after that, i thought that this would be a manga where the main character would eventualy kill askelad but damn i was not expecting that, still a great philisophical manga, and the anime is just the icing love every minute of it, but the mangaka could have milked thors so much that guy was a beast
Miyamoto Musashi was one of the greatest warriors ever lived (based on a true story The Book of Five Rings). When he was young, he fought and won many battles with swords, as he was getting older, he ditched his sword and used sticks, stones, or any object to defeat his enemy, as he was getting even older, he no longer felt that he had to fight to win, nor did he carry any weapons at all nor using anything at all except his own WILL and the idea that you don't have to have a physical fight to win a battle. There's an uncanny similarities between Thorfinn & Musashi.
"A true warriors battle is to find a solution without fighting"
I agree that it is foolish but the driving force of having the sword is to never use it I believe. Train deadly with it but do all you could to never use it. And I’d this is Thorfins understanding then he’s using a very radical approach
Mmm, i need to read this.
Yes
what fighting style thorfin use ?
So underrated
Both the series and this channel ;)
more overrrated
They technically did bring weapons such as spears and axes, the only thing Thorfinn banned were swords, because swords only exist to kill people, that is their sole purpose, whereas spears and axes both have many other uses
I think it is cool to at least try to find another way to solve problems without fighting but is in human nature to fight, I to do not think that there is a way to not fight in life, but it would be good if there was
The Baltic Sea War Arc basically portrays Viking warriors as over-the-top manchildren playing a game. Thorkell and Garm act especially childishly. It can be amusing, but it shits on the whole idea of subtlety.
I wonder if Thorfinn's fate will be similar to his father. And it will be up to his son to spread the true word of non violence. That little guy doesn't have an ounce of evil in him.
i dont think so. for the very reason that his son doesnt know the darkness of the world, the war, the slavery, the torture, he wont be able to move things ahead like thorfinn keeping everything in mind
@@rumi1970dgwelcome to the current arc
This Anime teaches a very important about us men indeed; It is in our nature to fight, but the drive can overboil into the immoral.
Even thors kept his dagger in a chest in his home
I'm on my arc too
Imagine that... a manga i can read while blasting some old Viking Metal (Bathory)
basically thomas sowells constrained vision
He is a Real anime protagoniste
Violence and murder need no weapons among broken people. They will occur as long as there is greed, anger, covetousness, jealousy, pride, lies, or other such evils.
I think Thorfinn should compromise and rather than non-violence, his goal should be non-lethal, which goes for weapons as well. Then again, he's trying to change human nature in himself and others. Crazy boy.
the real life thorfin after askelads death started to realize his mistake too and went for a journey to vinland but he did used swords to fight enemy , he didnt give up on swords completely. and thorfin also fought thorkell in actual history but got shot by skelads men's arrow as they were panicked when they lost half of their force . and thorfin left . and thor doesnt exist it is like a title to represent worriors and the author used it to represent "true" worrior. actual thorfin had this motto that he wouldn't kill unnecessirily,will fight when necessary.
here a thing there is not true warrior
Vinland saga is beautiful
Just picked up vol 2 of Vinland saga today
Yes
@@RealLifeRyan agreed
The meek shall inherit the earth.
maybe it’s not necessarily related.
I haven't seen this. But it's giving off viking samurai x/rurouni kenshin vibes.
I think the meaning to being a true warrior is to know when to put down your blade.
Blades are meant to take lives and shouldn't be wielded for pride.
It should be wielded to PROTECT your own life.
Hey man nice video. I also made a similar Video on the philosophy of Vinland Saga
You need to check more japanese anime, because yea this means like thorfin is a peaceful guy, but is not only that, a true warrior I'd a non weapon warrior , if you check on katanagatari or shura no Toki anime you will see, that thorfin and Thor's l, came to be very peaceful but also very hand overpowered skilled killer
The title should be called a true one note character
The meek shall inherit the earth
That is what a Real warrior should be