How the Baltic Sea War Arc is Designed to Challenge Thorfinn
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- Опубліковано 26 гру 2019
- The Baltic Sea War just wrapped up as an arc, so I thought I would make a video explaining the thematic undertones of the entire arc and explaining why overall I think the Baltic Sea War arc is just as good as it's preceding two arcs.
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Thorfinn: I cannot change the world because I have no power, that will be Canute's job.
Vagn: Thorfinn! Do this thing!
Thorfinn: That's Canute's job.
Eskil: Thorfinn you're Chieftain now!
Thorfinn: [yeets the cape and power] That's Canute's job.
He cannot just the world with Canute’s power without bloodshed.
Well be the grandmaster of Jomsvikings is a dangerous job.Besides, Canute also want to eliminate the Jomsvikings.
Thorfinn changed my world ✊🏻
#cringe
As someone who just caught up to the series, I think I loved all the arcs equally. They each had special elements that made them a masterpiece.
What arcs is after the slave/farm arc
@@fazeprodigy5724 the Baltic Sea war and the Vinland arc
Agreed
completely agree
Ymir is mid doe
This manga hasn’t actually dipped at any point. It’s superb storytelling. I love how much this arc pushed Thorfinn’s belief in the ideologies he adopted from Farmland. He had so many reasons to fight lethally, the most being Garm, and he held fast. It also contains one super-crucial moment: when Thorfinn truly goes beyond his father.
They were both former killers whose lives of bloodshed hung heavy over them. The difference is that Thors accepted his death in a way that seemed like penance. Askeladd tells Thorfinn “Go beyond Thors”, and he does. At a point where he could have accepted his death, he chooses to stay alive. His death alone is not penance enough. He would build a world of peace. At that point, he goes further than Thors, fulfilling the wishes of his father and his adopted father.
It really is beautiful storytelling.
This is so beautifully put :) Death as penance...I never picked up on that till now. Now I can appreciate the difference between Thorfinn and Thor's paths. Like father like son, but children are meant to go further than their parents :D
Sigurd might be my personal favorite character in Vinland Saga. Him dueling his father after coming back a failure and finally earning his respect after Baltic Sea War was super satisfying
The Baltic Sea War arc is the equivalent of waving a 6-pack in front of a recovering alcoholic, going to the extreme to answer one question... "What are you really made of, Thorfinn?"
Glad to see some appreciation for the arc! I've seen many people complain about it. Thorfinn has gotten so far since the prologue, I'm so proud of him ಥ‿ಥ
Does he never fight again? Sounds boring
@@MonroeSim 🛑 [SPOILER] 🛑 don't read if you don't want to get spoiled
I also thought that it might be boring, but it really isn't. The author is really good at bringing Thorfinn's inner conflict to us readers. I haven't caught up completely yet, but I have seen some inner conflict parts during the Baltic War, and it's really great. And also, he does fight, but always as a last resort. He doesn't kill though, and I don't think he will kill somebody ever again. But it's not some fancy no-stress-sea-expedition to Vinland, there are new challenges by which Thorfinn is confronted now.
@MonroeSim I guess you can clarify Thorfinn as the number 1 Pacifist anime protag ever. Vash the Stampede held that title for the longest time since he has the same ideology as Thorfinn but will resort to fighting if talking things out won't work.
Thorfinn will either Bargin his way out or run away, but when push comes to shove, he'll throw hands.
Then there's Batman who will always fight murderous criminals but never murder them.
Thorfinn be looking like a king with his cape
The Baltic Sea War arc was my favorite arc so far though each section of the story has been nothing short of incredible. Vinland Saga is truly a masterpiece. Great video
I find that I tend to re-read it more than the other arcs.
I like the baltic sea war and also thank you Kyle got the video.
Great video! One other element of the Baltic Sea war I adore is the asides with the viking warriors. They're funny but they also emphasize the meaningless of the conflict. And they also bring the idea that maybe there were other vikings who didn't enjoy war as much just like Thorfinn.
They don't just do this in the Baltic Sea War arc, in the prologue there's that moment where in the fire two soldier assume that they are comrades only to realise they aren't moments later.
@@KyleEntertainment I always giggle when I rewatch that scene
I wonder how far does Thorfinn can hold of being a pacifist especially going to Vinland Arc
Oh yeah. My prediction:
Thorfinn may end up using that last advice Askeladd gave him: How to kill someone you hate.
@@MrTigracho
A fight may be between him and eyvar, I hope he stays the way he is but I would be lying if I said I dont want him to fight a bit lol
Especially with people they can't communicate well with
The most difficult obstacle that we don't know if he can overcome. Another loss of a family member. Gudrid or baby gets killed; what does he do?
@@cokecan6169 that was my exact train of thought if wife or baby get murdered he will go back to his original state set on revenge
Baltic Sea War Arc is a fuckin masterpiece
Agreeeed
You've actually brought a lot of praise on this arc. Perhaps I'll enjoy it more upon a reread. I think it's pretty easy to recognize the 'bad' rather than the moments that are really good. I personally hated Garm as a character, even if that was the point. I just can't respect him the way I respect someone like Thorkell or Snake. I also felt that other Thorfinn's comedic relief is used a bit too much. I will say though, the Baltic War Arc does contain one of my favorite chapters, I think it was 154 where the random soldier dies on the battlefield with nothing to show for his lifetime of fighting. No Valhalla, no afterlife at all for that matter, just cold emptiness. It's really drives the pacifism theme as Yukimura harshly criticizes war, as he's done before. Deliberately showing just how gruesome and worthless it all is. I really hope there's some nice development with Hild's character soon. It's obvious what's going to happen but I thought her introduction to the story was fantastic and I'd love to see her greatly expanded upon
I just think from a character development point of view, Baltic does about 10x as much for Thorfinn than the Slave Arc did. The entire sum of Thorfinn's philosophy after 50 chapters of being a slave is "pacifism good, war bad" and he has zero progress in figuring out how to actually live that out. Baltic Sea War shows him actually getting tested and forced to think long and hard about *how* to introduce pacifism to such a violent world, and that's why it's a much stronger arc in terms of character development. In addition, the introductions of Hild, Sigurd, and Gudrid are ultimately each just as impactful as the single relevant character from the Slave Arc (Einar), and *there's a dog and a baby !!*. In my opinion it's not just a better arc, it blows it out of the water when I try to look at it objectively. The only real point the Slave Arc has in its favor is that it's slow paced and relatively relaxed, but that's really not enough when it's not really meaningfully introspective; feels like a bit of a waste of such slow pacing, and makes it ultimately come off as pretty boring. A lot of Thorfinn's true introspection about how to achieve peace could've happened during his years as a slave but ultimately he makes no progress on that front except possibly at the complete end of the arc when he confronts Canute. But that's one moment versus him having to fight entire battles and confront the man who assassinated his father, learning a ton of lessons from Askeladd and Thors along the way and finally helping him truly overcome his rage and lust for revenge.
I agree a lot on the comic relief. I found that the tone was a bit off fairly often but not enough to really damage my enjoyment of the manga. My other issue is that Einar just kind of doesn’t have a lot to do after the slave arc. It kind of feels like he’s in stasis until he probably dies later to test Thorfinn. He feels like the bro version of comic book female love interests
15:02 On paper, Floki got a happy ending. But his face here looks just like Ketil when he lost everything. Floki lost his life ambition, which he got many people killed in order to achieve. He gets to live happily with his grandson, but because he no longer has the Jomsvikings, he'll never be able to appreciate what he has.
As great as the slave arc is, this one blows it out of the water. Thorfinn has so much more character development here, there's more action, there are way more interesting characters introduced, and *there's a dog and a baby*. I think people like the slower pace of the slave arc and that's why they think it's great, but honestly that's not a great argument when it gets beaten in every department by the arc that follows it 🤷. Hard to make any real argument for slave arc to be the best, you can definitely make a better argument for it being the worst arc (although I'd put it on the same level as the prologue).
But i think the slave arc is better. It focuses more on side characters than Baltic sea arc,and the conclusion to slave arc was sooooo goooooood, Baltic sea arc conclusion is not meh but just ok. We also get to see adult canute in slave arc
@@rudrakumar5441 what is there to end for Baltic sea war? the ending of the arc is basically the introduction to the Exploration arc. Slave arc had its ending because Thorfinn finally got a goal to set up and find it himself along with Einar.
Thorfinn does not evolve during that arc, he basically stay the same pacifist he was at the end of farmland, he may learn how to deal with his new philosophy during battle but in the end he still is the same character, there’s no interesting characters outside of Hild and maybe Sig who are introduced, the dog and the baby aren’t relevent to the plot. Farmland is the best arc and this one the weakest imo. The best moments of the EE arc are the chapters on the Valhalla, these are absolutely beautiful (not as good as the drunk priest’s tho)
Thorfinn reminds me of kenshin but Kenshin still has the will of a samurai but thorfinn completely gave up violence
And he's not a hypocrite with his pacifism like Kenshiro. Ken is supposedly all about peace and love, yet he makes his enemies' bodies explode and even taunts them by telling them, "You are already dead."
For me the Baltic arc is as good as Farmland when it comes to storytelling this arcs live with each other as Baltic is the arc that challenges Thorfinn new way and not only that but theres so much context and the way the arc goes deep with the theme of the series and the way Makoto closes out the first main storyline when it comes to Thorfinn grow is amazingly! done!
I think the people that does not like Baltic arc is because they where to much into the action and less into the deep dialogues and themes behind the characters.
After every arc I've thought, THIS is the best arc and it is my favorite!!! But looking back all of them are equally masterpieces!!
Thorfinn is kind of an Chad ngl
Kind of? Thorfin is a giga chad
Can’t wait for it to get animated
Great video
Great stuff Kyle! This is what I come for. I have some thoughts on the Arc as well, but I love it when I see the things others have found but I have missed. Another thing in Hild is that it is a role reversal for Thorfinn, he is now the Askaladd of the situation and he needs to learn how to mend his past actions and possible mentor his old self. I hope Hild's forgiveness (while predictable) is just has much as Hild learning about Thorfinn learning to mentor about his ways, as it is Hild is understanding her wrong doing. So I hope that Thorfinn learns to not just give up in Hild and let her be, but instead go out of his way in to help her understand him.
Side note: I haven't seen this said else where, but I feel that Hild is thoroughly bored/depressed in the recent chapters, for some reason she felt like she didn't have the same drive she used to and while still angry, she is left to stare and watch while Thorfinn gets married and have a fun time. Vengeance seems to be sapping her life away, and I think she already know she is wrong but she is too prideful to let it go. She wants Thorfinn to be the monster he was. Like one thing that I thought was really weird, was that she cries out Thorfinn's name when it looks like Garm stabs him. Does she want to be one to kill him? Or does she actually care for him? Or something else. I thought it was weird.
You can probably tell that I like Hild XD but yeah. I think Ima have a break form VS, manga is getting to a slow point again and I am kinda wanted to binge it in a year or so, when the next Volume comes out. I'll still watch all your vids though. Just maybe not the new chapter reactions :)
I think the shots of Hild at the Wedding were actually supposed to portray that she was happy, she just is hiding it. It's a shot I've seen in plenty of other things, as the very serious character is shown at a festive event drinking alone to portray that they can't really connect with everything that's going on, but they still want to be there.
@@KyleEntertainment Ahhh, fair assessment. I see what you mean. That does make sense, probably a mix of both imo. Yukimura has some awesome artist skill, and it is still top notch. Like Thorfin still has part of his eye cut off from early in the farm arc, I didn't notice till I re-read parts. Love the consistency.
I really liked the Baltic Sea arc a lot. There was really only one thing I didn't like about it. Ymir. I felt like the story could've done without Ymir. It felt super jarring to have him kinda Dues Ex Machina out of nowhere and fight Thorkell. I am still not even really sure what Ymir is supposed to be... is he like some sort of bearman thing? I feel like if they just had Thorkell fight another giant-sized throw-away character it would've been fine but having some half beast dude come out of nowhere was super lame and really pulled me from the moment. Luckily it wasn't for long, but still that felt super dumb to read.
Without Ymir, there would be no Eren
Another story that got ruined by Ymir. Wink wink.
@@kendrickburris2139 Crazyyyy
I tell myself that Ymir was selectively bred with gigantism, and he was covered with fur as a child and due to his decreased intelligence, he was trained to think he was an animal
I wonder if they with tackle the fact that pacifism not always triumphs. Thors practiced pacifism, but was ultimately beaten by his past and died. I wonder if they will also put Thorfinn on such a scenario AND he actually loses thematically
Likely what will happen with the Vinland Arc
The Vinland arc is so far the greatest test for Thorfinns pacifist ideals, how do you keep peace with a group that's fundamentally different from you
I can't wait for Season.3 😭😭💥
everyone is always raving about the farmland arc but cmon now.
the baltic sea war arc is way too hype to not be the best arc in the series.
Was just listening and had absolutely no clue when you were talking about hild lmfao
Thanks for making this video! I should have watched it way earlier tbh. Since I caught up with the manga I had always felt that only the Farm arc and the Hild "mini arc" were Vinland Saga at its best. I prove to continuously take Vinland the wrong way 😂
Thanks for this analysis, it has proven my opinions wrong. Maybe I just have the wrong expectactions and have a hard time follow the message and the goal Yukimura has.
EDIT: I would love a solo video on Askeladd done by you as well as a conclusion of your VS anime vs. manga video, as you really are able to bring up excellent points.
I think thorfinn is humble an not passive, because if a friend needs help he will .
He can be both
He can be both
My favorite arc by far
Read this arc a few years ago, and I come to find out recently that people hated it lol. Just my opinion but this was probably my favorite of the first 3 main arcs
if the manga will continue to be adadpted so well iam so looking forward to baltic sea arc which likely would be 3rd season it will be another banger, i cant wait for garm
Honestly my favorite arc in the series
so what is the purpose of the vinland arc? I think it has been amazing so far
Thorfinn defeating Garm, by imitating Askeladd is my favourite scene overall. He despises Askeladd because even if he des not hate him anymore, Askeladd remains an overall bad person, yet he realizes how he felt when he too started to have to deal with a kid nagging him for duel and in that moment he imitates him.
Idk I loved the shit out of this arc. Entertaining as hell, nice detox from the intensity on Farmland, some wholesome moments, Thorfinns grown up and he’s put to the test
When thorfin is in need of fighting and killing his opponent to survive
Thorfin: remember *remember the askelad rules
He became a king. Now everything he built will fall, beyond his control
Thorkells fro is fucking hilarious
Youve just embraced non-violence and pacifism and suddenly you find out about the true person behind the death of your father, a psycho forces you to participate in a war agaisnt the lives of your friends and you have a person on your shadow who has sworn to kill you if you show any violent tendencies.
Yeah, this arc deserves more praise
I am really touched after watching the farmland arc/anime. But I am kind of confused now, should I wait few years for the anime or dive into the manga?
I just started reading the manga and it’s totally worth it!
Man I just wanted a long journey to foreign lands
This manga is really good but I cannot help but feel the pacing is ever so slightly too fast he should really take his time.
The problem for me with this series is I can't follow it up to date. Its very boring and painful. This series benefits more when it's binged
My boy Siggy
I've been pronouncing Hild & Einar so differently than this video. I thought it was 'hill-d' & 'e-nar'. lol.
Garm is the annoying shounen mc
Garm's an empty trope which breaks the medieval athmosphere and tone - Thorkell has loads more character and depth, actual regrets and moments of levity as well as introspection as well as fitting the Viking aesthetic perfectly. I so greatly dislike people comparing Garm to Thorkell.
@@Dreamfillah Garm had just as much ad depth as thorkell.
What does that mean shounen MC?
@@lampad4549 And you're a dumb dumb for thinkinh that just because they flanderised Thorkell in the Baltic Arc as well to something the fans _thought_ he was in the prologue arc. Thorkell had depth, beyond "hahah yeah killing is the greatest, i love killing so much i killed a dozen men as a child no problem cause im a natural born KiLLER - a KILLER like you Thorfinn, do u geddit??" He wasn't always walking around with a dumb edgy smirk and epic dodging arrows and running up walls and being so painfully one-dimensional and totally disconnected from the setting. You could at least tell Thorkell's a viking, Garm's indistinguishable from his archetype in any other anime.
@@Dreamfillah there is really no need for insults.
1. Its not "they flanderised" it was a single person that made thorfinn that way.
2. Garm also had depth beyond just that his backstory shows him as someone that was sociopathic and doesn't have the same level of empathy as other characters in the series plus his actions were encouraged by those around showcasing the adverse effect of being raised in a culture that glorifies warfare and violence, killing is all he has known and he lived in world that relished it.
3. Having a resting look on your face doesn't make you one dimensional pretty most fictional characters have a look or expression that persists more than others, Thorkell for the most part in has a childish excitement on his face in the first arc, Askeladd had a mischievous smirk, Thorfinn had a scowl and Ragnar had that angry look on his face for the most part in the first arc.
4. Running up walls does epic dodging arrows pretty much what thorfinn does in the first arc.
5. Your argument about him being disconnected from the setting is confusing, if by that statement you are referring to him being one dimensional that's ridiculous cause being one dimensional doesn't make you disconnected from a story setting all stories are going to have one or two one dimensional characters its going to happen doesn't mean they are detracting from the story or its setting if that is what they are designed to do by your logic petty much every character that talks and isn't fleshed detracts from the setting or if you are talking about the mannerisms he exhibits then that logic applies to both thorfinn and Thorkell based on some of the previous points I made he is basically a combination of the two, he seeks out and enjoys a good fight like Thorkell and he has the athleticism of Thorfinn, if both of these of traits detract from the setting then they should also be criticised, them possibly having more depth has nothing to do with it if these mannerism are the point of contention cause they are mutually exclusive to each other if said mannerism isn't related to said depth.
6. No I cant tell that Thorkell is a viking cause I don't know what real vikings were truly like I only know about what is said in historical records and as far as I know none of the famous vikings were like Thorkell,if you are referring to vinland saga portrayal of vikings none of the other vikings exhibit traits similar to Thorkell the closest in in fact Garm.
7. What archetype exactly? If you are referring to the shounen mc one brought up by the OP I cant think of a single shounen main character that enjoyed killing others for one only Light Yagami comes to mind.
Pacifism is a creed to real warriors we only use our skills when someone threaten you or you family like thors, but someone comes for family they don’t see the halls
kyoka suigetsu
We really just saw a war arc. Reminded me or Ran.
It felt good to see a war going on...... Ah, shit! Sry, Thorfinn.
People expected season 2 to be just as action packed as season 1. That was really childish from people who didn't understand the point of Vinland Saga. When the Baltic sea war gets animated it will deliver such action and they'll have to shut up.
I like that there's analysis of this series, I absolutely loathe that you're boiling it down to political talking points as if they are all irrevocable and self evident.
Read the latest volumes? Hild actually forgives Thorfinn
Yes
CANT WAIT s2 isnt entertaining for me i nee some more fight scenes
Hiilde finally forgave thorfinn int he new chapter
Far more relaxed free world... Well, this didn't age well with russian attack on Ukraine
youve somehow managed to mispronounce almost every name said in this video lmao
There is no such thing as toxic masculinity
Spoken like someone who can't come to terms with his own toxic masculinity
Imo Baltic sea arc is not as good as prologue or Farmland arc, why? Wtf is Ymir,beast titan lite version? This is real world, not one piece or AoT. I hope they remove that trash character cuz it makes the story just worse
It was a random big Viking guy like thorkell but even more exaggerated and it's not based on the real world but the overly exaggerated vinland saga texts
I also think it's not as good but not because of that reason, LOL.
It ain't a history, its from the saga with some flakes of history
It was made clear in the prologue that that this manga is not trying to be historically accurate tough
I can't give this arc more than a 6.5/10, which fucking sucks because the previous 2 arcs were a 10/10.
LOL this arc wasn't bad it is as good as the other two but you are exaggerating
@@juanmanikings it’s definitely not on the same level as the other two imo. Prologue and Farmland is two of the greatest arcs in manga history, The Baltic War arc is good but very underwhelming
@@dipo7502 I know but people exaggerate when they say the manga went downhill
@@juanmanikings true, it’s still way better than most mangas out there right now
How? This arc puts on full display all the work that went into Thorfinns growth as a person. This was a prime example of them showing us his change rather than just telling us
Mans unironically said toxic masculinity lol
Grow up
There is toxic masculinity and there is positive masculinity
@@MobuThorsNighT0Grow a pair.
toxicly masculine male🤓
Toxic Masculinity lmao
Most boring worst arc
@AlonkJack the pronunciation of my name is "Shoto" I think MHA is boring too after a certain point.
U dont understand nothing
Grow up, kid
@AlonkJack w
Typical shonen tard
It's pointless and inaccurate, and downright annoying, to review and analyze material taking place in a past era, based on supposed modern standards that do not apply to that era. Patriarchy isn't a system designed against women, like matriarchy isn't a system designed against men. Furthermore, throwing around terms such as "toxic masculinity" is meaningless in this context. This term did not even exist in modern culture 15 years ago. It was literally made up by academics with a radical political agenda during the fifth feminist wave. When you say a man from the patriarchy becomes a fragile and toxic man and pride is a negative trait, is complete BS, especially in this story. From pride comes honor, something Thors taught Thorfinn. By this reasoning, both pacifists Thors and Thorfinn are also fragile men, since they're both from the same patriarchal society. Also there's a difference between pacifism and being a doormat, and sadly, Vinland Saga is dangerously blurring the line between the two. It's why more and more people are losing interest in the series.
He can’t even pronounce jomsvikings correct so his opinion is soso
Grow up bro