Does All Solid Wood Matter? | Martin 000-12e vs. 000-13e
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- Опубліковано 27 лип 2024
- We talk a lot about the importance of (at the very least) a solid wood top on an acoustic guitar, but once the top is solid, how important is the rest of the body? Today we're taking a look at two very similar Martin guitars to put this to the test, the 000-12e and the 000-13e; one of which has a laminate back/sides of Layered Koa, the other having solid Siris back/sides. Can you hear the difference? What tonal nuances can you hear between the layered and solid constructions? Let us know in the comments!
Comparison starts at 9:55
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Best acoustic guitar analysis on YT. Can't get enough of Chris and Cooper. I go back and forth deciding between an 000-13e or GPC-13e. Adore the sound of Martin and Taylor guitars - especially the fingerstyle..
Can I just day this. You, your channel and your music store are all top notch and fantastic. Please never shut down and continue what you are doing. I'm a lifelong musician and I always watch your channel because you just are absolutely awesome in every way. Kudos and love from Colorado
Cooper rockin that denim/turtle neck ensemble with no F's given.
Yep looking like he should be making shampoo commercials.
its texas....
Mans got drip
Lookin sharp
Definitely a difference in sound, laminate brighter without the low end. Solid wood more mellow with a greater tone range. I prefer the solid sound. But the best guitar for you is the one that sounds good to you! Play on 🙂
And the one you can actually afford. 👍🏻
And the one that feels great, calls your name and won't let you put it down.
Agree ply sounded “dry”
I couldn't tell the difference until I put the headphones on. I think you are dead-on: laminate is brighter without low end. I personally feel the mellow tone of the solid makes for more easy listening.
This. I like both but also prefer the solid, but overall I could go with any of these.
Love the sound of the layered back and sides more. Both sound very good. It’s a matter of taste. Solid top is the key.
I don't know how I ended up on this channel, but I love it. I've been here for days. Hours and hours learning about all these beautiful guitars. Now we just need this stuff to come back in stock haha. Thanks for the education guys. Keep up the good work
Your presentations always brings a smile, thanks fellas
Okay, I played drums pretty seriously for 45 years, and here's my two cents. Over the decades I owned dozens of snare drums, most of them higher end models --- not the cheap stuff. I would alway take a great laminated maple snare drum over a solid maple snare drum. Not that the solid ones can't be made to sound really good. But, a very good laminated snare is normally much more versatile. They can sound really great over a broader spectrum of tone and sensitivity. Jazz in he morning; MoTown after dinner? That's a laminated snare with just a little tinkering. I have also found the very same distinction to exist with other woods, like mahogany. Anyway, that's my ex[erience. Maybe it's not pertinent to guitars. But, it seems to me that it's at least informative.
One of the reasons some luthiers prefer laminated back and sides with a solid top is related to the stiffness and consistency (to humidity etc) the material provides. Since the laminated sides are much stiffer (the ply would be cross grained) the diaphragm/soundboard vibrate freely without dissipating much in to the structure. This makes the instrument more reactive to the style of play rather than its own tone characteristics. This is the versatility being noticed in drums.
Yeah, Im a multi-instrumentalist and most advance with guitar and drums and the way the wood plays into the sound of drums, doesn't translate over to guitar. I've never met a guitarist that thought laminate top guitars sounded anywhere close to a solid top. I have a $650 laminate top Martin I bought when i was young and its sound is kinda disappointing. My $100 solid top "Recording King" sounds soooo much better then my lam Martin. I also have 30 some other guitars and this translates with every company.
You guys are such geeks. I love it. Thanks for your insights. I take from this conversation the importance of being clear about what I expect from the guitar: playability, comfort, sound, aesthetics, collectability, affordability, prestige, etc. each having tradeoffs while each plays a role in long term satisfaction. Thanks for your help seeing this.
Both sounded great in their own way. The all-solid was definitely warmer and mellow with more low end. It almost sounded like a all mahogany. The laminate was brighter and dare I say more balanced. The laminate is what I would use to record and play live, but the all solid would be my just me and my guitar getting lost in my backyard or front porch.
I think the same. That bottom end tone is what most gauge a great guitar on. And if the bottom is muddy thats normally OK with them. But modern performers that work regularly know that's not AS important when running through PA gear. THe laminate is what youd want when trying to cut through a mix with a full band. I look for playability first, and if the tone is there then that's a bonus. A bluegrass player would not agree. But for me that is the case. Taylor wouldnt sell many guitars if it were just about bottom end. However I have Martin and Taylor, love both but really love the Martin NECK. That's why were all different. :)
Of course in the studio everything changes :)
This comment section gets it!
You can definitely hear the difference between the two. I think that they both sound incredible. Great video as always. 🤠🎸
I think the best take away from this is that if you can’t afford a solid wood guitar, you can still get a very nice, terrific sounding instrument.
That’s what I just did. I bought the Martin D-X2E. It has a solid top, laminate body and was the only Martin I could afford. But it feels great, sounds great and is makes me want to play more. That’s all that matters to me.
@@festushaggen2563 congratulations on your beautiful new guitar! Enjoy it in good health.
@@ricksmith201 Thanks. 👍🏻
@@festushaggen2563 I have the same guitar mate, its incredible. You made the right choice!
If only that were the takeaway...martin do an all solid ooo10 in sapele which is 500 bucks cheaper than the hpl 12e koa
I love the work you guys do. You add great value for your audience. I was conducting a test like this once , I strummed with more power to get the woods to critical mass. {On another episode I would really like to see the performance of these two guitars once you "turn it up" a bit - put the woods into strong vibration mode by strumming loudly with a heavy pick. } I found when I pushed the plywood it sonically pukes at a lower threshold - it can't vibrate past a certain point (that much). It has Less headroom. But solid back and sides can flex more and .... 'sing' in it's own true voice. Plus solid has more headroom. When you start hit'n strong, solid woods get up and performs even better! it seems like a progressive increase in sonic value. I found the solid body acoustics Can handle and produce louder volume. I find that laminate guitars reach a critical mass sooner than a solid body, and those In your test were not pushed hard enough to investigate how they "react". It's all about how that wood "Reacts' under pressure - to your pick/pluck.
It use to matter , however in this ever changing technological world we live in it does not matter . The new Taylor laminates are truly on an entire new level .... Cost Saving and less prone to problems with Temperature flux and Humidity below 40 % ... Great Video . 🎼🎼🎼🎼🎼🎼🎼✨✨🇺🇸
You guys are a great source of info. Great work!
I fricking love this channel. You guys are turning me into a real enthusiast
I think the solid wood guitar had a mellower "wider" sound, whereas the laminate was brighter and more focused. Personally, I prefer the wider and deeper sound of the solid wood guitar. Nice presentation!
I agree 100%.
Absolutely correct. I have an all solid, and 2 solid top/laminate sides-back. The difference to me seems to be how wide the frequency band is. The laminate ply acoustics are more focused and possibly missing some of the mid range warmth.
I agree
Exactly what I felt
if wider and deeper sounds is what you prefer, why not try a nylon string guitar. they generally come pretty cheap too
Thanks for the presentation. It's great that you do these comparisions. The case is that sometimes even the choice of a pick makes the difference in the sound😅
Thank you for the review and insights on these guitars.
Yeah solid wood rounder sound, but weirdly I preferred the Koa on this occasion. Best to visit a shop, play guitars in your price bracket and buy the one that inspired you the most 👍🙂
Thank you so much for another thought provoking video. I am sure that in a drednought it makes a difference like Martin DM vs Martin HD-28...where you can literally feel the solid wood guitar in your body vs the laminate.. In these OOO's the difference was minimal to my ear.
I am blind so I could not tell which guitar it was which but from listening to the both of them; I felt that the first guitar was less present and did not have the articulation that the second one had. I preferred the second guitar on the demo. Thank you for posting these videos. I really do enjoy learning about all of the differences between guitars.
I'm also blind, so I don't know which model was which. The first one sounded a little brighter and more open, and the second sounded more mellow and focused.
Vissibly Charred, I wonder how did you know he's blind as well
@@breauxtide6217 txt to speech programs is a Thing when ur blind dude 😊
Yep, plenty of features are built into modern technology to assist the hard of hearing or sight. Fantastic that everyone can enjoy the internet.
Thanks, Cooper and Chris! Chris really brought a smile with his little dig at Patrick about smashing guitars... As far as being able to tell the difference, with the smaller more comfortable concert body, I feel that the sound you get depends on how you feel when you pick it up and start to play. The slightly larger Breedlove concert with layered koa B&S seems more elegant when I pick it up than the Taylor Academy 12 with layered sapele (both have mahogany necks, which my son-in-law also favors). I'm guessing the Martins were equipped with the same strings, and my son in law told me that he thinks Elixir Polyweb strings sound better than the Nanoweb, but we can always revisit Andy Powers discussing "Picks and Strings" in Taylor Guitars' video. The best guitar in the world is... the one you're making music on. -Chris McKee (My favorite musical instrument quote, and one I'd bet Patrick wishes he'd thought of.) Happy 2021!
First off you two guys have the best guitar show coming from a music store.
As far as the all wood thing goes, I own one acoustic, it’s a Martin GPC 28E. Great guitar although I listen to some of these alternative material guitars and I get blown away.
It definitely makes you wonder if it’s really worth it. I do love the look of rosewood back and sides though with a gloss finish 🤙
The layered one surprisingly sounded richer and more dynamic to my ear. Never would've expected that. Maybe the back and sides matter less than one would think.
Why not record.the audio and show it in graph 📈 form while.unplay it so we can see 🙈
I agree. To me personally Takamine are my favorite sounding acoustic guitars and most of them have laminate sides. I have a reimagined Martin D18 and a 20 year old cedar top Takamine that cost about $700 new. I always wanted a D18 and i've now got one but i have to admit the Takamine sounds better. The Martin D18 sounds really good in the open chord position but the Takamine sounds good everywhere. The D18 not so much. The bass is there but the mids are not further up the neck for rhythm and strumming. Tak just sound good everywhere all over the fret board.
It's led me to believe almost all of the tone comes from the top wood and bracing. The Takamine using laminate sides actually makes the guitar stronger and they can get away with less bracing which to me gives it a nicer sound. So contrary to all the guitar snobs out there who think all solid wood construction is better i have to disagree. Laminate wood is a positive.
@@AchillesWrath10% of it does. The back of sides color the low and most bottom of sound. Believe it or not I like the hpl the best if for solid wood it would have to be mahogany because I want deep punchy bass.
I think all solid wood is fuller and richer. We hear it especially when strumming...
Yep I can hear the difference the laminate highs were more pronounced and it makes sense since a laminate wood is harder.
"That could be a whole other video" OK, I'll be waiting right here for it :)
No issue with laminate back and sides. I have an FG830 that sounds amazing.
There is no “issue” but there is DEFINITELY a difference. It’s all about preference.
I must agree. I have a 48 year old Yamaha FG-160, which sounds fantastic. I run Nashville strings on it. Beautiful tone.
@@CatchMeOutside361 yeah, I mean it matters who makes it as well, a great builder making a solid top acoustic will do better than a crappy builder making an all solid. That being said I played my brothers Yamaha for years as I learned to play but when I got an all solid Martin D16 I felt that I could really push it so hard, but also when playing softly it was clearer. Like with the solid top I’d learned on I hit a very clear limit in output and it wasn’t as clear when playing soft or fingerpicking.
Yup. I've had a Yamaha FG730s for 6 or 7 years now and even though I just bought a Martin, I won't get rid of it. I had changed out the stock plastic nut, saddle and bridge pins for bone which made it sound even better. Next to the Martin, it still sounds great. A good guitar is a good guitar no matter what you compare it to.
I have a yamaha fg830 too thats sounds amazing,,,as long as i play the martin d-18 second lol play tha martin first and the fg is thin
a) Thank you! This is excellent. b) Substantially as Frans noted in their comment, it seemed to me that the solid wood had more pronounced low or low-midrange. This brings up something you didn't seem to say much about: when you can hear a difference, is it necessarily one that you care about? I was a bit surprised to discover that I had a preference. (If it matters, I like the richer low end.)
I really wanted to like the solid wood more but to me the laminated guitar sounds better
Honesty is the best policy
I wish more people were willing to say this.
Yep I really believe people are a little brainwashed. Blindfolded I don’t think that the solid wood would be their choice but maybe.🤷♂️
i'm really looking forward to the String comparison Test !
Great Comparison. Well done. Solid all the way for the woody, round sound. The laminate accented the highs a lot more, but I greatly prefer the sound of the mellow solid wood.
I like to believe solid wood guitars age better than laminated ones. I've owned both types of guitars and while laminated doesn't sound bad at all, it feels like the sound stays the same after years of use, while the solid one sounds better 10 years later.
The funny thing, is that my expectation was to like the sound of the solid wood guitar better. And, amazingly, loved the koa/laminate's tone! It sounded brighter and more delicate to me, certainly exceeding my expectations. I guess I have to get away from thinking of plywood, tonally the combined wood sounded lovely.
The layered back and side sounded sweet to me. That black headstock looks great too.
Great video / here’s my take fwiw after 60 years and as many guitars.
1- An accomplished musician like Chris can make almost any guitar sound enjoyable.
2- Feelings - how you Feel holding and playing your guitar. That’s unique to each person. Price, name brand, construction, age, stage of life, confidence etc. it’s all comes into play when hugging that collection of wood & steel components
It’s a love affair
3-Magic: after all the physics a musician is in search of the magic and pride in making it.
For me either at home or onstage I want a guitar that is reliable/ sounds good/ solid wood ( more magic than laminate)
well respected name brand/ classy not flashy.
4-If unsure- buy a Martin standard series, you’ll never regret it. They hold their value if you decide on something else.
5- environmental & political concerns. I don’t want a guitar built under poor working conditions environmentally or politically. Do you?
Keep Strummin’
I cant afford the martin standard series. So ill just watch youtube
@@hoompaloompaa you don’t need a Martin Standard Series to have an affordable solid wood great sounding acoustic guitar. Identify the specs that are critical to you. Scale, nut width, cutaway, size, neck carve, then move into woods used.
All depends on you. There are excellent new solid wood guitars between $500-2,500.
Good advice there. I just bought my first Martin yesterday. It’s the D-X2E. It’s their entry level but it’s a Martin and it’s all I could afford. It was twice the cost of my Yamaha acoustic. I wasn’t even looking for another acoustic but I saw it, played it and couldn’t put it down. I had to have it. Not only did it feel and sound great but it brought out different styles for me and I thought I sounded better playing it. It was love and no matter what else is out there or what they may cost, nothing will make it sound bad or take away my enjoyment of this great guitar.
@@festushaggen2563 Congratulations
You now have guitar fever. The only cure is to have however many guitars you have now plus just one more
Not sure why I love watching these videos. Makes me want to go get a cheap Martin
I think that the layered koa sounds louder & clearer sound than the solid wood Martin.
I agree with you in this circumstance. I personally own a laminate side and back Martin and it sounded more like the solid wood, like I said this is my personal guitar.
It is brighter, but everyone likes their own idea of tone. They are all correct in their judgement of the instruments: If you like the way it sounds, by all means, play it!
If I were to play one them in a band setup, the layered koa seems to sound more sweeter to my ear and I think it would cut very well in the mix.
Thanks for the review.
You can tell the difference, as you’d expect. The solid tone wood much richer, fuller and bell-like sound with greater sustain. Amazing!
Martin making some great guitars period. I've actually been looking at the D-X2E which is HPL with a spruce top and I'm pretty impressed with the sound and the price is so reasonable.
Really nice comparison and playing! I couldn't tell a difference during strumming. With fingerpicking, the 000-12e sounded punchier while the 000-13e sounded like it had a bit more sustain and reverb. I wonder whether this is a difference of laminate vs solid wood or reflects the difference in the woods used. The koa veneer on the 000-12e has a core of african mahogany, while the siris on the 000-13e is said to be more like rosewood. I've played plenty of great guitars with laminate back and sides, so it's certainly not a rule that all-solid is always better. One thing I've heard, however, is that an all-solid guitar will improve with age even more and become more resonant because the solid back/sides will break in, while a laminate won't.
I also noticed the better sustain on the solid wood version.
Thanks for your videos. I follow your channel but missed this when it came out. Very interesting video. As someone who’s played for 60 years, and couldn’t afford nice guitars until about 15 years ago, I’ve owned a lot of laminate back and sides. This video surprised me. The KOA laminate sounded better to me when strumming. The all solid when finger picking. I think I CAN hear the difference in these two. My gut feeling , is an all solid wood guitar will have a greater difference as it ages, but I may be overthinking how much or little the body adds in time.
I own or have owned a number of solid top/laminate bodies by Martin, Taylor, Alvarez and Yamaha. Maybe I suffer from snob ear but I always think the all solid guitars have a bit more definition and clarity “between “ the notes.
I have an early model Alvarez Delta 00, so it has some age to the top. Really fun to play, plays like butter and I could sit picking on the couch for hours. But if I pick up my Breedlove Concertina all solid wood, it sounds like there is more definition.
Just my opinion. Thank you for all your videos. Great stuff
The laminate would be great to cut through a mix, or in a band environment and the solid wood with it's more mellow sound would be great for singer songwriter style stuff.
I can Listen to you guys talk gutiars for ever. Thx fir sharing. 🤘
Interesting discussion, and a subject I was questioning a few days ago. I was looking at buying a 000 Jnr 10 (solid wood top, back and sides), but felt I should play other 000 models such as the X2E, which is more expensive than the jnr, but has HPL back and sides. I honestly went to the store thinking I was going to find that the more expensive models sounded better and that I would end up buying one of those. I'm usually a sucker for the rationale that more money=better and find it can cloud my judgment. After spending an hour playing the various models, I found I could quite easily tell the difference between solid wood and models with HPL....and I always preferred the solid wood models; the sound, in my opinion, was richer and 'thicker'. Consequently I bought the 000 jnr 10 and was pretty happy that the cheapest guitar (but still solid wood) was the one I actually wanted the most and liked the best.
Great choice I like how all solid wood sounds way better to my ears ! Happy New year to you ! 🙂
Of the two guitars sampled here, my ear thinks the layered-koa 000-12E sounds a bit richer than the all-wood 000-13E. This REALLY surprised me as I would normally choose an all-wood instrument over a laminate. Weird.
I got 000-12e last week and I am in love with it. The 000-13e was not available, but I tried the D-13e the GPC-13e and the D-10e and for some reason the moment I held the 000-12e I felt it is the right one for me, I love the sound and the playability. In fact I preferred it and the D-10e over the others. I am no expert but it is true as they say the right guitar for you is the one that feels right when you play it.
Hey, im looking to buy the 12e aswell, are u still satisfied with it? How much did u pay for it? Im in europe so the pricetag is Just under 1900$, would u still buy it at that price?
@@Martin-mc7yk it was around $1400 when I got it, I guess prices increased for everything. I still find it a great guitar, I play it all the time, and for me after trying different strings, I like elixir nanoweb strings the most. I suggest to try it at the shop and compare it to others within same budget if you can, I originally went to buy the GPC-13e but when I played both I liked the 000-12e more. Cheers
I thought that they sound exactly the same (i have done a blindfold test :D). To my ear the only difference is that the solid siris is kinda muted or should i say compressed..
btw the koa looks the part too. So for me the 000-12e all the way.
Thanks for posting both guitar sound pretty good I have a Alvarez yairi solid top laminate back and sides really great sounding guitar also have an Martin d-35 all solid great guitar they sound different but will not say one is better than the other just different again thanks for posting
My personal preference here is the 13 (solid) but, as many have pointed out, they both sound good. As of today, they are both priced at $1299 on Reverb and through many different retailers.
I own 2 Martin 000-16 guitars. One is from 2002 with a gloss top (000-16 GT model) the other is a 2015 and has a custom sunburst top. They both have solid tops and laminate mahogany bodies, and the burst actually has a brighter and (to me) more pleasing overall tone. I bought them both used, and believe they have not lost any value in the several years I have owned them.
I just purchased a 22 year old Martin D-2R that has a solid top and laminate rosewood back and sides. It actually sounds better than my friend's all solid wood, Martin D16GT dreadnought. Both guitars were using the same new strings. Maybe I got a gem, but it changed my views on laminate guitars!
Definitely noticed a difference. The all solid wood model had more bass and a richer overall tone. Neither one sounded bad, basically just a preference, but I liked the all solid wood guitar better.
Agree with you on all points
Layered one sounds much better all around...better projection, more overtones. Solid one sounded flat or even a bit muddy. IMO the stiffer back gets more out of the sitka soundboard. I experience the same thing on my D35...the back is very stiff with 3 joined pieces so it reflects the soundboard back more out the soundhole if that makes sense. THAT being said, I still think the solid would sound great with a Rare Earth mic/pickup system. In this test video I would have wanted to hear the solid with the mic a bit closer than the laminate. I once had a solid mahogany low end martin dreadnought that sounded great fingerpicked but when strummed the solid woods actually ate the sound and had no volume. sold it.
000-13e! Deeper resonant.
000-12e More of a "surface" sound
Having a solid wood guitar is subjectively a marginal sound improvement over a decent laminate and certainly doesn't make me play better. It is nice to have a solid wood one though but don't fret it if it is out of your budget.
I preferred the sound of the one with laminated back and sides in this recorded comparison.
The 000-15SM is a 12 fret parlor guitar in full mahogany, with a 25.4" scale length and a slotted headstock. Hands down the best acoustic I've ever owned
I'm not qualified to grade these two guitars, but based on MY experience, you need to spend some time with a guitar, to determine if you like it. I've had many guitars, and my current favorite, is a Finnish, branded Espana, Classical , which is my favorite. It is not expensive, has a steel reinforced neck, shows signs of a somewhat rough life, serious crack on the base side of the top, which I swear to fix at some point in time, but I like the way it sounds. I like the way it feels in my hands. I also have a Spanish built guitar, Solid, which is louder, more powerful, more attractive, MUCH more expensive, but I prefer the Espana. The point? , Play it. Consider what you intend to use it for. If you just want to hang it on the wall, that is a justifiable motive. Enjoyed the video. By the way, for what it's worth, I liked the 000!
I heard a big differnce. Solid sounds warmer, not better. I enjoyed both and own guitars with solid wood sides/back and with laminate sides/back, all with wood tops. Excellent video.
I agree. Can hear a clear difference but love them both. I just hope someday I can sound that good with any guitar.
Just having solid wood sounds cooler, but I don't think there is any discernible difference at least not to the point you can say one sounds better. It's just that when you hear "this guitar is all solid wood" it instantly sounds better in your head.
I always choose my sound from the treble side of guitars because the mid and bass side of things already have a natural mellow sound built into them, but the treble side can make or break it for me... if it is low fi... not brittle, tinny or jangly then it will sound even and full coming out of the sound hole...all solid on this one!
Nice to hear some Hootie. I haven't heard them in a long time. (first demo)
There was a difference in sound but I liked the sound of both. There is only a $50.00 difference in price. I would buy the one my wife would choose. Then there is no argument at home. Stratagy #2 buy both. Nice info on the OM vs the OOO.
Enjoying your videos. I am shopping for a new (to me) acoustic and finding many of your videos very helpful. I actually could tell the difference in tone and liked the layered koa guitar better than the solid wood. Shopping for a dreadnaught and am leaning towards a d18 or d28 not only for the sound but also it's potential resale value years from now when I am no longer around. Your final thought about the best guitar will be the one that gets played rather than sitting in a case is very much on point. But...Will a laminate guitar ever be collectable? Maybe better to have one that my kids will want to hang onto because they remember be playing rather than cashing in.
Really big difference in sound. Much more than I expected. I prefer a brighter sounding acoustic, so the laminate would win for me - no contest. But that's me. Biggest take away - Play guitars before you buy. I would have never guessed the outcome of this test.
I think that you can definitely tell the difference especially when you moved into the picking. It was much less apparent in just strumming. I should also add that I wasn’t listening with headphones
thank you, really good comparisons. And oh hell yes, I can hear the difference. Laminate is just too bright.
I like the idea of solid wood over layered, however I did a blind sound test for this video and couldn't hear a difference. So I guess as long as its a well made guitar im happy
I actually liked the layered wood for what I wanted. I have a solid wood Martin already but I think the playability of the neck is what makes this brand top notch at any price
That neck is why I love them also. I tell people that I love martin because of the neck, forget the sound. But that's a bonus. I'm not sure if I have seen any reviews about playability. Is there anything more important. I've played and made a living with music but maybe its easy for others and not a concern but I'd dought it. I'd take a thin soundong guitar thats plays good over tone all day long.
The solid wood, has nicer lows.
This could be a 3 hour Jerry Springer argument. Nice job with the presentation.
This "Dueling Banjos " is better suited for Springer.
I like the D18 sound. In my opinion the D10E is the best guitar in the Martin lineup with the added bonus of having a pickup for a bargain price. It’s a must have for me.
The solid sounds a slight but noticeable degree richer on the more solo-style fingerpicking--you hear more harmonics and depth. The koa layered projects better when strumming and the chords stand out better--the difference could be when the different woods become more harmonic. I would go with the 13e for slack-key guitar and solo finger-picking, but the 12e for Fisherfolk style strumming and occasional finger-picking, when the percussive effect is more important. I don't think you can go wrong with either, it's a matter of your application.
Once again gentlemen, you hit the nail on the head. I think both Road Series Guitars are amazing and great value. I think the solid one was warmer tone and if you are a folky player, would go for that. If you are more of a pop-py campfire player, id take the 12e and show off the layered koa. LOL. Larry Greenberg (no relation to Cooper although wish he was my cool younger brother).
All solid is better!
GS mini: hold my beer 🙂
Thanks for your videos, appreciate it. It takes A LOT of work to put these videos together I know. I just bought a Taylor 814ce LTD and then took it back to get a Taylor 724ce LTD. The 800 series is supposed to have a “better grade of wood” so why would I get a 700 series instead? Exactly what you said, to my ear, I liked the sound of the all solid Walnut 724 over the solid Indian Rosewood/Spruce of the 814. They both play great but the Walnut is beautiful and has a deeper tone. It’s a balance between the typical bright tone of the Taylor where every string is clear and the warm rich tone of the typical Martin where the strings blend so well. The 724 has a warm tone while retaining the clarity of the strings.
From the first note, the solid wood tone sounded richer. Without question. Layered sounded good, but wouldn’t be my choice. Solid wood is lower priced? Bargain. You guys do an awesome job.
The layered Koa sound beautiful ❤
As a primarily electric player the all solid model sounds like it has a very subtle compression to it just mellowing out some frequency and providing a little clarity, very subtle but that's what i think
The siris backed guitar was slightly deeper and warmer. I liked the sound really well, maybe even enough to consider purchasing.
I turned my screen around so I wouldn’t be biased towards which guitar was which… with that being said I could hear the second guitar sounding a little more mellow, but it was very subtle! Both guitars sound very similar and are beautiful instruments!
I played two Eastman E1 D/om guitars solid back and sides alongside two Eastman PCH om/D laminates.. The difference was huge and you would be insane not to find the extra 200 notes to go for the solids. Having said that, some laminates are excellent. Eg Yamaha 800 series.
I recently bought a Taylor 214CE (layered back and sides), and also own an older 416CE Spring Limited (all solid). I was surprised to find that in some ways I prefer the 214 to the 416. The 416 has a bit richer tone overall, but the 214 has more presence and clarity especially on the lower notes; "piano-like" clarity, and it has The Sound that I've had in my head for years, like the classic recordings we all grew up with. I like the neck slightly more on the 416 because it's bound and gloss where the 214 is an unbound satin neck. Also, the back of the 214 is not braced- it is arched for strength, and I'm wondering if that adds to the impressive sound. Also, it's LOUD, louder than my '79 F340 SD Takamine lawsuit dread.
The Solid Siris has a more focused and warmer tone. Siris is harder and heavier than Koa, especially if the Koa veneer has a poplar core, I sure hope not! I love the dark color of the Siris also. I own a Martin 000 X series special, and I love the 24.9 scale length of the 000 series. It's very very close to a PRS 25" scale. I wish they made this scale length available for the OM or the GPC series. I'd like a road series with all solid wood, with cutaway body, and with 24.9 scale. But as I've searched Martin guitars in the Road series for this, it seems there isn't one. If there is, please let me know Alamo! Thanks guys for another great review!
The Japanese luthier, Shiro Arai (Aria Guitars) invented the Japanese laminate process which is less of a "plywood" than it is plates of tone woods. It was developed to overcome the changes in temperatures involved in exporting the instruments. I am lucky enough to own a bunch of Japanese acoustics from the 70's most (not all) have solid sitka spruce tops (personal preference) some high end ones are solid jacaranda back and sides, some are laminated. I'm not sure which ones sound the "best" but I will say that after the laminates have had 40 or so years to age, they sound amazing. Perhaps more importantly, for the price of a single decent Martin you could buy both an example of a solid wood and laminate guitar from each of the best Japanese makers (K. Yairi, Yamaki, K. Suzuki, Morris) do the experiment yourself, and still have a few bucks in your pocket.
I happen to agree. I too have been fortunate enough to play/own alot of vintage/modern Japanese made guitars and K Yairi have the best guitars from a 'laminate wood' standpoint. In my opinion, 'HEADWAY' guitars (although costly) are amongst the best Japanese 'solid wood' handmade acoustic guitars to date and can confidently say they are right up there with Martin/Taylor/Gibson guitars if not better.
Glenn Frey’s sweet sounding Takamine 360 dreadnought has been heard by millions of Eagles fans. It has laminated back and sides, (his signature model has a solid back). My Takamine P4DC has laminated sides, as almost all Taks do... The strings and pick you choose will probably effect the sound more than the body woods.
Brands like Takamine and Yamaha uses quality laminates. I'll take an all laminate Tak/Yamaha over some nameless solid top guitar.
1. I love the black tuners on the Koa one.. A great look. 2. How will it mature in 25 years versus the solid guitar?
I own a 1970s Yamaha FG 180 and previously owned an FG 200. These are all laminate, including the top. They both sound (or sounded) tremendous. I love my small-bodied FG-180, and it cost me practically nothing. I will say it does not sound nearly as full or rich as the 1940's Martin 00 a friend let me play once, but I'm not the player he is, either.
The all solid wood sounds more balanced and the layered Koa sounds bright and tinny
Layered koa seems to have an overall brighter sound whereas the solid siris has a deeper, more even sound. I definitely liked the sound of the solid guitar better with finger style. I'm not sure I liked one better than the other with the pick, but there was a definite difference between the two.
It would be really interesting to hear a comparison between solid and layered after the guitars have aged 5 or 10 years.
When do we get to hear Cooper play an acoustic guitar? I've heard him play electric in one or two videos and he can definitely tear it up. Let's hear him play acoustic. I was a little worried the buttons on his jean jacket were going to scratch the back of the guitar though.
this is sorta my concern, will the layered one age well? for that price I'd hope so but hard to know.
Many great musicians that have been playing for many years can not tell the difference in some cases....I am one of them.....
Sustain: I'm always interested in the sustain of a guitar and you never let one ring out. You might be interested in what you discover. Hard strum with pick. My 0002X rings out in 4 seconds. Which doesn't seem all that noticeable until you compare. I have a GS-Mini that will ring for 6 seconds. Half the body size but holds a tone a third again alonger. Humm. 00017SM Spruce top Mahogany sides and back 1O seconds. The overtones bouncing around and mingling around are like going from mono to stereo. Huge difference. I personally believe that the D18 is the real workhorse of Bluegrass Martins. The loudest guitar I've ever played was a 57 D18 in a shops practice space. It was actually overwhelming yet players buy D28s for the prestige thing. In this review the compression of Internet streaming makes it hard for my ear to define the difference although I can tell that they don't sound the same. I think I'd actually buy the laminate but then played in a store I might pick the other.
I have both and have played guitar over several decades. The slight difference in the sound of laminate vs solid is negligible and in my opinion, the benefits of laminate outweigh the little difference in sound.
Both sound great. I lean toward the all solid back and sides. It has a warmer sound but the Koa is bright. Hey, they are both Martin. Everyone should own a solid top Martin.
My 2005 Martin DM is just frikken fantastic. A good proper setup and good play and wear in over almost 20 yrs and upgraded bone/ivory (I don't remember) bridge and pins and it sounds amazing to me. And it's Made in USA. And I polished the headstock and put some Grover vintage style open backed tuners on it. I dig it so much but there's still a part of me that wants a D18 or HD28.
Definitely not ivory lol…
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I think far too often we get tied-up in "what sounds better", rather than acknowledging that they sound different, and just deciding whether or not we like the sound.
This is very true with high end banjos as well. Once you get above a certain level of quality, it's not longer about good, better, best, just different. And a lot of the difference is just user preferences.
thank you!!!!!!!!!
The solid sounded like compression was added, n a good way. Side by side, I'd choose the solid. Otherwise, both are nice.
It’s hard for me to hear any subtle difference in sound especially when listening to them on my iPad instead of in person but thank you for posting this video.
One of the first top replacements I did was to put some pretty good sitka on a 70's Yamaha hummingbird copy. It make almost no difference at all. I have a 76 D-35 that was sold to me because it "sounded like it was filled with whipped cream." I've rebraced, shaved braces, and put a new torrified spruce top on it, and it still sounds like it's filled with whipped cream. I just recently worked on an Avarez Yairi from the 80s that was all ash, top sides and bottom, and it sounded pretty good, certainly very playable. Wood is a mystery.