Guitar Construction Solid VS Laminate
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- Опубліковано 19 лис 2017
- The Minor Chord Music Store is a local and friendly music store that offers a wide variety of instruments, lessons, and repairs.
If you've ever thought about buying a guitar, chances are you've looked at some of the different price ranges and thought "What?"
Fortunately for you, oh befuddled viewer, we're here to explain why lsolid versus laminate wood yanks up the price so much, and to justify it with the resulting tone.
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Comparisons are hard with extended talking between so here:
2:25 All Laminate
3:17 Solid Top Laminate Back and Sides
4:20 All Solid
Thanks Thom! I'll probably go back and add those as annotations so it will be easier to compare.
I read my comment back and it appeared slightly rude. My apologies.It's an interesting topic for me, thanks for taking the time to post.
Not me doing the talking, I just do the editing and posting! However, we have started to streamline our videos to be as close to a minute as possible. We understand that many simply want to hear the instruments, not us!
With your excuse, i made a 1 sec edition xD
2:25 All Laminate
3:17 Solid Top Laminate Back and Sides
4:21 All Solid
all solid is much better
This guy stares at you like you've broken his guitar!
LMAO!
I read your comment before watching the video and I was cracking up. He stares into your soul. Lol
Funny
Lol 😂
He’d say, give me back the money
Laminate and laminated mean two different things; laminate is a pressurized mixture of glue and sawdust with a hard synthetic skin. Laminated means multiple thin layers of real wood glued together.
most manufactured guitars are laminate material rather than laminated thin ply board types.
Ain't goinna take a $2K Martin out on the beach for a party ... Different uses and liabilities need different instruments :)
With regard to the second guitar you played it looks, from the color, like either an FG800 (nato wood) or an FG820 (mahogany). THEN you chose a rosewood Martin D-28. That's patently absurd/unfair. I guarantee that if you chose the ROSEWOOD FG830 ($299), the difference would not have been nearly as dramatic as you made it out to be.
I have a 65 year old Gibson J-45 solid mahogany back/sides guitar that is an iconic guitar worth thousands of dollars. I also recently purchased a Yamaha FG830. They are 2 completely different sounding guitars, but the amazingly beautiful sound coming out of that FG830 can hold its own against the J-45 any day. It's lush, resonant, clear, balanced, and pretty loud. And the neck plays pretty fast, not like the almost baseball bat neck of the J-45.
I think you're doing a disservice to affordable, high quality guitars that register way above their price range with this lopsided review. If you're going to do a valid comparison between laminate and solid wood guitars, at least try to keep it apples to apples (mahogany to mahogany, rosewood to rosewood, etc.)
Also, it's my understanding that well made layered laminate guitars are less prone to the brutal effects of changes in humidity than solid wood guitars, although I've heard arguments both ways on that one.
And finally, not all laminate guitars are made the same way. Taylor (and others) employ a layered laminate process that is not simply plywood laminate with a pretty thin veneer coating. It's a well constructed substitute for all wood guitars that is able to keep costs down because of the way the wood is cut -- there's no waste like in all solid wood guitars. Plus, things like bracing (scalloped vs non-scalloped) affect the overall sound and tone as much, if not more, than whether it's solid or laminate. I've heard plenty of all solid wood Martin guitars that suck. And some under $500 guitars that rule.
@Eiermaler Eiermaler I was in a music store looking at Alvarez guitars and one of the salesmen suggested I try a Fender CD-SCE. I tried it and said it was nowhere near as good as the Yamaha FG-830 I already have. (Even the Alvarez wasn't really as good but I'm finding large dreadnought shapes difficult to play for extended periods of time, hence my interest in the Alvarez OM/Folk shaped guitar.) They sold the FG-800 but not the 830. I told him I'd bring in my 830 so he could play it. Before I could he went to GC (he works at Music & Arts, under the GC/Musician's Friend/Music & Arts corporate umbrella) and liked it so much he bought one.
no offense, but I think you missed the point of him going from the Yamaha to the Martin.
The first Yamaha was an All Laminate Guitar, probably a Yamaha F150.
Top - Laminate Spruce
BnS - Laminate Nato (iirc)
The second Yamaha was a Solid Top Guitar, probably a Yamaha FG 700 or 800.
Top - Solid Spruce
BnS - Laminate Nato
The third guitar was a Martin HD-28, and is an All Solid Wood guitar
Top - Solid Sitka Spruce
BnS - Solid East Indian Rosewood
The purpose was to show the difference in tone between laminate and solid wood in construction.
As for tonewoods, the single Biggest factor in the sound is the Top Wood, i.e. the Soundboard.
Beyond that, the Back n Sides only impact the overtones, but that's Solely for Solid BnS woods.
Laminate BnS woods have little to No bearing on the tones whatsoever because the strings are too far from the woods to get them to vibrate sonically, especially considering how strong and Stiff laminate is.
Therefore, it is perfectly fine to use the Martin HD-28 in the video, as it is the ONLY Solid BnS guitar in the entire video.
If you wanted him to use the same brand, then that's a different argument altogether, and a very Valid one, since different makers use different bracing patterns and designs in their guitars.
I guess it would look something like.
Yamaha
1st. F150 (Top - Laminate Spruce, BnS - Laminate Nato)
2nd. FG800 (Top - Solid Spruce, BnS - Laminate Nato)
3rd. FG3 (Top - Solid Spruce, BnS - Solid Mahogany)
Martin
1st. D-X1E Black (Top - HPL or High Pressure Laminate, BnS - HPL)
2nd. D-X2E (Top - Solid Sitka Spruce, BnS - HPL)
3rd. D-28 (Top - Solid Sitka Spruce, BnS - Solid East Indian Rosewood)
The FG830 is a great guitar I love mine
Thanks. I definitely noticed the difference - especially in the sustain and tone.
Thanks for your video. I don’t know why some of the reactions are so vengeful, I found it very informative and are glad you uploaded it.
Thank you my minor chord. I actually heard the differences on my lgs phone speaker. Thank you so much for not waisting my time with idle chit chat about what your dog eats, or anything else that has nothing to do with your subject. BRAVO . I aslo LOVE how you just played one chord and let it ring to the very end. The tones of the instruments tapering off is where I picked up the information I d seeking. . Thank you for not playing songs or showing off. Thank you so much for having the guitars in perfect tune!! Putting quality earphones on, the differences the subtleties were so easy to pick up. It's the best video I've seen and heard for full laminate, solid top, and solid body, comparison by a long shot. I wished I still lived in Mass. I'd surely come visit the minor chord. No I'm not an owner ,I just get so tired of idle chit chat nonsense,on all comparisons ,reviews etc. This is the way it should be done. I bet your store is outstanding.
Damn, Jerk him off a little more .
Thanks for this TMC and Matt·Dylan and thom dushane for the shortcuts. You can hear big differences side by side in the video. However, it makes sense to PLAY the guitar you're looking for, preferably in your environment, to decide what sounds best to you. There are a LOT of variables that determine sound quality and it IS NOT ONLY solid v laminate.
Solid guitars age like fine wine.
Ranel Marinduque
Plywood age pretty well also.
I have a 30 year old plywood guitar that plays much better than newer solid wood guitars
A laminate guitar is Not ‘plywood’ ... like you would get from Home Depot. A lot depends on the quality of the woods to begin with and the techniques of the laminating process. I just purchased a Godin Seagull Entourage C3 and I can tell you that it ‘s tone is superb and it ‘rings’ out and sustains beautifully. The real issue is to go with a quality guitar maker first and to play the guitars. Sample solids and laminates and buy what plays and sounds the best to you.
great video..! I have a 1967 martin d-18, and a 1974 ovation composite body, and the sound from the martin is so much better it's hard to describe .....
This is a perfect explanation and demonstration, thank you very much!
There really is a big difference among the three. Its up to the hands of a passionate musician.
Great comparison, thanks very much, David.
nice comparison and very very usefull info about cheap guitar to expensive guitar,good job,thanks.
I think it might be a good idea to play arpeggios (bass and melodies) of a tune to have a better grasp on the sound those guitars produce.
Great demo and advice
How about this one? If I customize a guitar from a luthier and I asked for all solid mahogany body. Is it much better than the branded laminated guitars?
Huge sound difference. Thanks for the video.
Hey I was thinking of buying a Taylor 414ce Ovangkol v class. Do you think this is a good guitar? It’s solid wood I think. I liked the way it looks. I play a mayones baritone 7 string. this will be my first acoustic. I play jazz/prog metal. Thanks!
Thank you!! Very informative video.
The Martin definitely has a much richer tone . More bottoms and mids and possibly more sustain but did he strum harder or was it the guitar.
thnks a looot sir...i hv a urgnt & serious vital questn s dat is it prefrbl & safe t buy a solid top guitr in kolkata...whr humidty s a major factr!!!pl reply sir...i need t decd over ur advice or suggstn
This video is so helpful.
Looked like you were focusing really hard on those chords
Bhahahahaha.... Really, very hard cords???....୧(＾ 〰 ＾)୨😂😂😂
Thank you so much now it's clear about resonate. I hardly understand about this word resonate since my first language is not english.
this video was helpful..thank you
It is very obvious that the first all laminate Yamaha guitar which was played had the recording volume lower so the guitar sounded really soft with little sustain. Right before he strummed the guitar you can hear the volume of the video go down and at the end before he switches to the second guitar you can hear how loud and clear the recording once again becomes by listening to the background noises and his talking. Just goes to show that you can make a guitar sound the way you want to have it represented if you try.
Hell of an assumption. Yes, he might have been trying to deceive. But he also might has not been. Either way, it doesn't matter. When you walk into the store and try the guitars, you'll hear the differences yourself... and the differences are real.
the first guitar was yamaha f310 i think ? what model was the second guitar ?
what guitar do you suggest for singer songwriter player ???
Can you please make a video about Dreadnought and Grand Auditorium comparison. Advance thanks :D
Thank you!
One thing NEVER mentioned in these videos is What strings are being used. I know the 28 and the Yamaha don’t come with the same strings. It makes a difference, though not enough to make ply sound as good as solid. Still, a fair comparison would be all using the same strings.
This really isn't true. As long as the strings are relatively new, they will not really affect a comparison like this one.
It's a bit different if you're focusing on how 'bright' or how 'woody' a guitar sounds. You might buy a Martin because you like the woody sound, or a Taylor because you like something brighter, but in reality the brightness of a guitar can be adjusted somewhat by string choice.
Great stuff.
Couldn't tell the difference between the solid top but laminate to all solid.
Did tell the difference between the all lam V the solid top though.
Great review.
I would venture to say that it is much more than just the fact that the craftperson must be highly qualified. that contributes to the sound of a a solid body euitar
Great demonstration, the Martin guitar for the full solid construction example has other advantages. This does seem to validate my own experience; solid top guitars are far better than laminate in most cases with a few vendor exceptions. Solid top guitars are getting so much more affordable these days and I've found a couple under $300 that I'd be just as happy playing in public than my Martins. My Martin JC-15E is my favorite Martin and the one I'm using for comparison. Who could beat a D-28 in this shootout!!! LOL
Great instruction
Which model is the 2nd guitar?
I am not a luthier. How is it much more difficult to mill a solid wood with CNC then to mill a plywood, using the same machine?
I have 400 years old planks of spruce wide enough to make single piece standing bass out of. Will single piece solid wood sound better then two pieces of wood glued in the middle? (Is the sound difference worth ripping my floors?)
Which yamaha model is the second guitar?
Does it matter if it’s a solid top if I use it via plugged into a PA and with a sound hole cover?
Nah then depends on PAx settongs , EQ etc
I feel that this video would have been more helpful if you would have played more & used the same brand of guitar with a solid top & solid back & sides of the same wood type (Ex. Mahogany with Spruce), for your third guitar.
would not have mattered since the 3rd guitar would sound different with Whatever BnS he used since it would be Solid.
Laminate BnS have no real baring on tone, so it doesn't matter which BnS you use.
Solid BnS will Always have different tonal qualities depending on the wood used.
i.e. you were Going to hear a different no matter What BnS he used for the 3rd guitar.
2:25 - All laminate.
3:17 - Solid top, back&side laminate.
4:21 - All solid.
Do all the scalloped x bracing solid top guitar has slightly curved top (Not totally flat top/slightly bulged) ? i recently got Yamaha FG820 and it has got slight belly , is this normal ???
That sounds about normal. Most guitars have a bit of give in the top, and aren't always perfectly flat. If it's very pronounced however, it may be a manufacturer defect. I'd have to see the instrument to know for sure. If you'd like, you can send a photo to our facebook page and I could help you further. -Edge
Thank You !!!
This voice.... he could play in a movie!
How do you protect a laminate guitar?
Solid guitars making SWEET music
He really wanted us to drop our jaws impressed with the solid guitar
Dont waste your money on something u dont watn buy solid trust e
and it works
Gimme a solid top and bone saddle and nut. Thats all I need.
@@phillipdavidharriscountrys2168 yep me too. Bone nut and solid top with good construction
well, I wet my pants with that last Em chord, so it worked.
Thanks, Sir. Now I see what a price means.
all solid is bright and resonating well...
Maybe it was just me, but it sounded like your voice made the Martin resonate. Turning it as you were talking changed the way your voice was picked up by the mic.
3:17 Solid Top Laminate Back and Sides
4:21 All Solid
Yeah, that solid one is nice
How to know if the one you're going to buy is solid top
Sure makes a big difference, but you would expect that. I have a Martin D-28, a MARTIN D-35 and they are amazing guitars. I also have a guitar i would never expect to be able to compete with them, however it does and very well at that. It is a Chinese made guitar called Merida. It has solid Engleman Spruce top and solid African Rosewood back and sides with a maple neck. I also have several cheaper laminated guitars that are ok, but just don't have the depth and tone. I also have a Gibson J200 that really booms and is all solid wood too. Even with all these great guitars, i prefer the China made Merida . I know it sounds crazy, but this guitar made me change my mindset on China made guitars. They can make really good guitars. Thanks for the video !
Everytime I watch a laminate vs solid videos I like the solid top laminate sides/back. It's a sweater sound imo.
I got a 450 dollar dean guitar for 89 at a pawn shop. Only problem is a chip in it. Doesn’t effect the quality though.
Much better if he could use some instrument/device to show the sound wave feature/time, etc.
at 3:17 what unit of yamaha is that?
My guess would be FG800
Hi - this is a good video however I wish you played a few chords - a passage. Also it would be good to hear a pick as it accents the sound...
thanks. sir
What about uman gas airgas versus liquid gas versus solid gas
That's an excellent comparison and explanation. Liked and subscribed!
Do they all have the same type of strings? What about the difference in timbers and bridge material ? Different materials mean the comparison is meaningless
on the recording the difference is minimal. maybe single notes or a solo would be more conclusive. from my experience the wood gives more harmonious overtones but its a bit mellow and with less sustain. but higher dynamics.
Laminated ones are more rigid, they don't respond to dynamics in an artistic way. their harmonics sound more mechanical, like the initial hit has highs and lows which are not "in tune" with the main tone. and this makes playing more fatiguing to the ear. in a way it doesnt sound that musical, even though broadly it has the right amount of bass and treble, even surpassing the solid wood ones. also laminated are less worry to maintain. also its said the solid ones sound better the more you play (but i haven't heard a professional recording to prove that)
One you get a all solid guitar you can never go back 👍🏻
With all the chat in between we forget the previous tone. Cut the video so they follow straight on from each other, and just caption what they are.
it is craftsman , let"s go brandon
The poker face right after he strums the strings
what is that on your head???
Nice vid
Thank you lovewalruss!
No doubt you get what you pay for. However, its not always about the guitar. I've played with some great players who can make the junkiest guitars sound like a thousand bucks! Players and their touch really can make a big difference in sound.
A simple edit job would put all three chords one after another so you could actually compare.
It's like his face is the sound meter. 😂😂😂
I think it might be deceiving a few people to infer that laminate sides on a guitar are Ply
4:22 all solid
What are the exact Yamaha models?
What we know so far:
#1 Yamaha, all laminated wood, just under $200
#2 Yamaha, laminated top, just over $200
#3 Martin D-28, all solid wood, $2000
Thank you for the video. The sound difference between the two Yamahas is astounding, especially the sustain. I'd be curious about the different amplitudes of the three models.
Call me a crazy but as a Taylor user I prefer a solid top with the laminate back and sides and that's why I went for the 200 series over other like the 300 series etc. Solid wood has a sweeter sound and kinda waves distortion free (when strumming), also a bit richer, 'more balanced' (but muddy at times due to low-end depends on the model type). So IMO a good solid top combined with a good laminate Back/sides will produce a crisper sound for fingerpicking style and everything really. Don't get me wrong, I don't know about $200 laminate guitar, but a around $1000 I'm sure you can get a remarkable tool that you can buy with confidence.
in my opinion not great sound difference for a great difference price Some recording mode adjustement...
I loves all solid top bcoz the sound is more acoustic
It makes a difference to you if you sit inside a quiet room and listen intently to the resonance. Or in a recording room making an album.
If you play to an audience and have the sound amplified. Nobody, nobody in the audience will complain and say the sound is no good because the wood is laminate and not solid. Seriously nobody!
I have played with a cheap full laminate guitar and I have played with a full solid guitar. NOBODY in the audience said anything about the quality of the tone. If you played the wrong key, or the wrong timing or the wrong chord, yes people will say something. Quality of tone? Nobody has ever said anything in my entire life of playing guitar.
Seriously other than your own self , nobody gives a sh*t about the tone of your guitar.
Well said
true in the ears of amatures, there is now way to tell the difference.
Definitely not a $3000 difference. Much of the difference is in the nut, saddle n bridge pin materials. At the least a solid top is a good choice n dies make a difference but I had an al laminate Jay Turser cheapest model ever but it was set up well played nice n was loud. I played it on the street n people mentioned how good it sounded more than once. I think it was all laminated basswood lol.
🤔... not really a fair comparison as the solid wood Martin is going to sound better not just because of the wood but the tuned bracing... overall an artistic luthiers creation albeit still a production model. I would recommend comparing something like a Washburn D-10s to the laminates... especially in the price range. I have a laminate Washburn D-10n that is my go anywhere guitar... I’ve had the nut and saddle replaced with bone, a set of Grover machine heads and some new bridge pins and it’s not too bad... I also have a Martin D-18 and there is no comparison...
Yes, the more expensive the better. Volume, overtones, sustain is up. But there were no tears in your eyes or mine one. The guitar did not make you crying but that is the value. I saw a man crying when playing l56 - it is really turned him over, reborn. The guitar is not sound for money as they say - it is a peace of treasure. So I didn't find that treasure in this test unfortunately.
The problem with such comparisons is that there are so many other factors in any guitar.
To have two woods glued together on the tone wood, especially the sides, I would argue, could not be exclusively discerned in isolation compared to other factors in the same guitar. Some of the best historical makers in the world have argued that only the face really matters. One even built a guitar with carboard sides to make this very point.
But even the soundboard is questionable. One could have a soundboard of .075 instead of .095 (or even .115 as one often sees in production models) if there were two pieces of spruce adhered to one another instead of solid. So why is this not done? My guess is that production models get highly standard bracing, highly standard (greater) thickness etc. simply for endurance and less damage for the common customer. How to show this in a true comparison? Test the sustain on the two soundboards with identical bracing but simply hanging in the air without the guitar.
it's hard for us to decipher the difference that way.at least 20 seconds.you should have played the guitars with pena, but then maybe we could tell the difference.bad example,
we'll wait for a replay..
I'll say this,I had a $400 laminate back and sides Ibanez that blew my all solid wood $1000 Epiphone in the dust,Louder and richer deep sound by a mile stone. Thats all I'm going to say,You don't need all solid wood to have a beautiful sounding guitar
That's interesting. Because from the examples of Ibanez acoustics on youtube, they don't sound that good. But they are probably cheaper than 200$ Which model do you have?
It was an Ibanez ac535nt they run about $400,Much better sounding/playing guitar then my all solid wood Epiphone Masterbilt EF-500RCCE @@lgiorgos1
You need solid guitar for tone.
@@cutittaierau3128 Ibanez ac535nt is solid top, so that makes a big difference from full lam. The biggest difference is between solid top and lam top. Full solid is usually better than solid top, but it depends on craftmanship. I own a full lam classical guitar made by a luthier in my town and it is louder and has better tone from most solid tops. It's crazy, but craftmanship is very important on a guitar
@@cutittaierau3128 A solid top I agree but laminated back and sides doesn't matter,I notice no difference in tone between my laminated b/s guitars and my all solid wood models
I know that diference after this video thnkss.
He strummed the third guitar twice as hard ofcourse it's going to sound louder
2:27 Brain malfunction
Mantap
You may think me picky , but , I am a retired Cabinet Maker ( UK ) 76 years old and taught in the 1960 by Traditional Guys . I was always led to believe that Ply and Laminate were not the same thing . Laminate is gluing each layer with grain all in the same orientation , Ply is gluing each layer at 90 degrees to each other . This means that Ply is much stiffer than Laminate and not as resonant . Laminate being more " Plyable" and resonant . Sorry about being pedantic . Cheers , Peter .
Would appreciate a fairer comparison last was a Martin (not a Yamaha) as well as a more pronounced strum= very biased!
Martins don't think Martin makes laminate top guitars.
Laminate guitars have come a long way. But, solid wood is solid wood.
I'm not trying to get everyone to buy a 2000 dollar guitar hahahaha that was funny
This is a silly comparison….what people need to understand is that wood examples vary…it is possible to have a solid top guitar to sound as good or maybe even better than an all solid wood guitar. I suggest you test drive as many examples as you can.
On the phone you can’t tell, but in real life, it’s night and day.
Sounds like you are editing the sound at the 2:32 mark of your video. You increased the gain/volume after playing the low budget laminate top. Naturally, the other guitars will sound louder & fuller. Tricky.
he edited all.. so it's a fair comparison