The REAL Difference Between Laminate & All Solid Guitars | BLIND Comparison
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- Опубліковано 24 лип 2024
- Today we have the best example of the sound difference between a laminate back & sides vs an all solid body guitar! The Eastman PCH & E1D are almost identical with the back and sides being the only exception.
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00:00 - Intro
01:11 - Review
09:10 - Back to Back Tone Samples
10:39 - Conclusion
14:44 - Reveal
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My first 50 years of guitar playing was on laminate guitars and enjoyed all of those guitars beginning with a 1950's Stella that had a half inch string height... Now I have four solid wood guitars and enjoy them even more. A half-hearted beginner can be demotivated by a cheap, hard-to-play guitar, A truly motivated beginner won't quit even if given an old fence post strung with barbed wire... so any parents reading this, if you get your kid a cruddy guitar thinking that if they quit you won't lose as much money, consider this, a decent guitar is a lot easier to resell. Spend a little extra and get your kid something that sounds nice and is easy to play, you'll be doing them and yourself a big favor, says the father of three guitar players and grandfather of two guitar players.
This is great advice. Thanks for watching! Be sure to like, share, and subscribe for more!
Forgot to ask if the body size and depth is the same....if the sides are three or four inches deep that makes a bigger difference also the scale length and soundhole size
@@JR-pr8jb Playability also has to do with right hand picking and fingering dynamics. A laminate guitar with less responsive construction won't allow a player to learn how to coax softer notes or overtones out of an instrument.
At the very least have, whatever guitar you buy, receive a good setup. That will make the biggest diferenst
I am a motivated beginner who bought a laminate guitar (solid top) that looks really pretty, and sounds amazing, but it warped and now the action is too high, and beyond the range of the truss rod to correct. I bought an inexpensive solid wood Alvarez last week, and I can't put it down. It sounds great, and it plays like swinging a bat, after using a donut weight, in the on deck circle.
Most high end Japanese built Takamine guitars, have laminated sides, and solid backs. This actually makes great sense, as the sides are harder to work with while building, and the extra strength is helpful if you have a preamp installed on the side. And, at 4-5” across, the sides don’t flex, so don’t really contribute to tone. Maybe this is the best way?
The laminates used in Japanese Taks aren't cheap plywood. They're two layers of top quality wood sandwiched together with the grain running perpendicular. It's actually more costly than solid, but they make up for it by not losing as many wood sets in the bending process. It also makes for a much more stable guitar that's less affected by environmental changes. These types of laminates seem to be a Japanese thing, but there are quite a few boutique builders catching on because it's a great construction method with far more pros than cons. The only con is the mistaken perception that all solid is always better with zero regard to the method or materials used :)
Model name?
What a great balanced review and oversight...Greetings from great Britain....I own a 18 years old Chinese made Tanglewod sundance and I think you're right...the top makes the most difference...its matured into a fine guitar in the same way as my ALL solid wood acoustic....interestingly I also own a 1974 Sigma D7 (think Japanese Martin D28 copy) that's made of what appear to be good quality laminates...and that's an incredibly lightweight and resonant guitar....had it had a nice solid top I imagine it would be insanely good...probably why real Martins are held in high esteem and only rich guys can afford them....that said fear not you guys who are skint....ive jammed with my mate who does own a Martin D35 and whilst been a more desirable and let's say it kinda nicer...guitar...my old tanglewood doesn't sound like crap next to it...and holds its own....I wish it had a ebony fingerboard like my all solid acoustic though...although no one moans about Gibson j200 having rosewood fingerboard...and ...I may be wrong...dont some Gibson acoustics have laminate backs and sides....and ovations..noel one said they were rubbish and they had fibreglass...I reckon its the TOP....the top is what matters....like a good hifi speakers...a good hard ..stable back n sides and a nice flexible speaker cable of projection...for the record after owning my Tanglewod sundance for a few years I sold my ALL SOLID ...hand made in the early 1990s Lowden 010....as my Chinese Tanglewod to me was a better sounding guitar as whilst the Lowden was OK for figerstyle...it was very under par for any pete Townshend strumming/picking style.....so there you go....that said Lowdens fetch 2-3 k 2nd hand ...a Tanglewod sundance like mine can be had 2nd hand probably for 300_500 quid...actually I should have probably kept the Lowden...but I needed the cash to buy a really nice usa fender strat...which I still own and enjoy ...back in the 80s a seasoned older player...said everyone needs a really good strat...its will last you all your life ..and any other guitars are just because you kinda picked them up...but 1 good strat i good acoustic...he had a 60s fender and a MartinD28....and a good acoustic....he was right....unless you're Joe bonnamassa then you kinda have 15 of the best everything....that said who could blame him...and he looks after them so well...and as he's a pro he actually USES them...hes kinda like a caretaker making sure they're OK for the next 50 years....I hate the fucker!!!...lol...no I'm only kidding hes great..
My all solid wood acoustic BTW is an high end classical guitar an Albrambra 11p....which is a different beast altogether than a steel string...I use it as a reference though as the Albrambra 11p is the highest in there range before one goes down the route of guitars made by hand individual lutheirs ....when one buys a "real' handmade classical guitar...it means actually that....sure Martin and Taylor.etc try to impart that vibe and images...But...its marketing.....because classical guitars are more of a niche less mainstream product it can do this....and in the higher end of the market you get a lot of bang for your buck....my 11p cost me 2nd hand £700....a real bargain new they retail at £1700....the woods used are (on mine of the finest calibre) ....if I wanted a steel string acoustic made with the same quality of materials I.e....a really nice straight narrow grain spruce top...really nice rosewood...and a blacker than black ebony fingerboard....all put together meticulously....id be looking at maybe a bourgeois...or Collins.?....which would cost considerably more than 700 quid 2nd hand...
Very enjoyable video. Overall nice vibe and good banter without the silliness . Always good to have a solid top . I have a Martin DX1AE with a solid top and HPL back and sides which is good for the outdoor venues I play here in Florida . Stays in use well in the heavy humidity. Great channel you have here . Good info .
Very nice! Thanks for the kind words. Be sure to like, share, and subscribe for more!
In this video with cheap earbuds on my cellphone I could easily hear the difference and liked the sound of what was the solid wood guitar. The volume of each was very close but the second one was more compressed sounding vs the first being crisper including more clear harmonic overtones that gives the perception of a fuller sound with more warmth. Excellent job, thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching! Glad you enjoyed it.
Thanks for making this amazing comparison video. The post production must have taken so much work to stitch everything together.
Without scientific measurements, this is all subjective. Where's the data?
Awesome video as always 😊👍🎸
The difference couldn't have been any starker. From such comparisons I've watched so far this has clearly been the most easily discernable. Switching back to all-solid was like when you swallow and your ears really open up. Great playing as always, John.
Massive difference with headphones. As expected, the solid wood guitar (A) had a lot more bass response, more overtones and sounded a lot more round and balanced. But you can‘t go wrong with any Eastman. The PCH-series is great for beginners or for outdoor playing and travelling . Would be interesting to hear the difference between the E1 and an E10 to see if the difference in price is reaaonable regarding only tonal qualities. Keep up the great work on your chanel. I love to hear you guys talking and playing!
Thanks for watching!
For sure wearing AirPods Pro with the spatial audio it was night and day
It’s worth mentioning….the difference is truthfully NOT extreme and I would go one further and say the tendency is to associate ‘fuller’ or ‘deeper’ tone as better…but for an application like recording that subtle difference in fullness of tone of a solid versus laminate may not only be negligible to the point of no one being able to distinguish one from the other in a recording or dense live mix situation, you may actually need that less full sound , since in all likelihood in a full mix with other instruments that fuller sound of a solid top may might not be needed since an acoustic typically occupies a more mid range set of frequencies and is then EQ’d with shelving style curves to cut out everything but the middle frequencies to make room for other instruments natural ranges….
I agree. Whatever the variance, it pales in comparison to the tonal tools a producer has at their disposal. But live in the room, the difference is significant, imho.
At the risk of sounding pedantic, traditionally ply is glued cross grained while with laminates the grain is glued in the same direction, it may sound like a slight difference but it's rather a crusial one.
Really good video, very enjoyable.
At the risk of sounding pedantic: crucial is with two c's.
Thank you for spotting my spelling mistake, although a little mean spirited, I meant to help buyers in expanding their understanding and knowledge of guitar building and terminology.
Great comparison ☺️
I had it wrong. However I have been playing a Taylor 110e for my daily player. Maybe that is what my old ears are used to now. I have a D 28 I play a little but I end up going back to the Taylor for ease of play. Good comparison and advice, especially for a new player absolutely needing a guitar that is easy to play no matter what is on the headstock.
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Typically tone is a deciding factor to achieve greatness and fullness of joy to our ears! Great video
Laminated back and side don't really matter that much. The back is just a reflector. The main thing is the top. The back does vibrate, but not significantly. When you are playing the guitar, the back touch your body, so it is dampened.
I don't have a body. My laminated guitar sounds awesome
good point
Disagree. Try playing with as little body contact as possible. My rosewood Taylor resonates all around.
You are wrong. An all-solid acoustic guitar body is the best option for sound quality.
I disagree, i have both solid and laminated martin acoustics and i can tell a 3D/2D difference between them, also on overtones and overall frequency spectrum...plus that woody tone is much more pronounced on a solids than laminate (which theres hardly any). its especially significant in recording per how it sits in the mix
Nice video... thanks! HPL= High Pressure Laminate is a term used by many major builders to get around saying Laminate. Backs & sides are generally reflective on acoustic guitars so the inside layer of the HPL, (unless you have installed a bridge truss which, as a side effect, will bring more top vibration into the back and sides), is what determines a good portion of the reflected tone, just like on a solid B&S guitar, but restricted to a small degree. Bridge trusses are a good thing on laminate guitars IMHO as they give a laminate B&S guitar a more complex tone due to adding-in the b&S to the overall tonal make-up.
i recently brought a martin 000-X2E and although its apparent it dosent give that 'warm tone' a full rosewood martin would give (which being a couple thoussand pounds less isnt supprising) it is without doubt the most comftable guitar i have ever used and i tend to use my guitar in my van road tripping and outdoors 90% of the time so the HPL back and sides give me comfort it will be less likely to be damaged, after weighing up the pros and cons i came to the conclusion it was the right buy for me, after playing it side by side with my friends all solid we was both blown away by how good it really sounds, not only that it looks beautiful and extremly well made!
Agreed, I have the same Martin and it’s been great for me!
i noticed a big difference and my guess was correct. i'm kinda surprised because i didnt know back&sides would make such a huge difference on a solid top comparison
The second Martin guitar that I bought my wife was a DM12. It has a solid spruce top, and mahogany plywood sides and back. Right from new, that thing is a freakin' cannon! I'm sure that the 12 strings has lots to do with that, but that guitar surely more than holds its own with her D28 and HD28.
There was fret buzz on the laminate. Were they set up the same?
I couldn't hear much difference here. However, 3 years ago I played both of these guitars in dread and OM form. The solid body was 200 quid extra and I played all four guitars for an hour or so in a private room at Peach Guitars in Colchester, England.
It took me a while to decide on whether to get the dread or the OM. It took me two seconds to know I was going to opt for the solid body. No contest! The difference was profound, and for 200 notes, a no brainer.
I bought the E1d and still play it everyday.
Incredible. Thanks for watching! Be sure to like, share, and subscribe for more!
Good instructions.. Thanks
I got a Yamaha apx300 exotic wood and it sustains longer than my Cort solid top.... How do they manage that?
I wanted to add that yes an all solid guitar does make a difference. That being said I should point out that there some guitar brands out there who have really stepped up their game with how they make their laminate back and sides. Eastman for sure is one of them as well as Yamaha among others. Great video.
Absolutely! Thanks for watching and leaving us a comment👍
Also Yairi's must do something special with laminated backs, my WY1 will stand proud against much more expensive guitars
What would the price point be for the “entry level” solid guitar? I was thinking about getting an Eastman down the road. I really liked the pch 3 acoustic electric. After the sound comparison , I’ve decided to go all solid. The solid has more punch , and just has that extra edge in sound. Both sound great , but the solid has that edge. For now I have a lyon by Washburn. It’s a beginners guitar I got for $50 at a tag sale and I’ve got 8 chords down and now just working on strumming. I’m thinking of the solid and not getting an excellent pch and later spending more on the upgraded solid. . Price is an issue so I may just settle on the Awsome pch 3 electric acoustic. Also I’m not familiar with care such as the humidifier for the guitar (as I heard being talked about in the video). Any help on these questions would be Awsome. Just found the chan and I love it.
The price of the E1D is $579, I'm not too sure about the prices of other entry level all-solid guitars but much like the PCH, the E1D sounds amazing for its price. It's a tough choice but we say if you're okay with waiting a little bit and saving up more money, having an all solid is well worth the upgrade. Although, as a beginner, the PCH (1,2, or 3) is a fantastic starting place, you may want to upgrade in the future but the same could honestly be said for the E1D. Besides the all-solid construction and an upgraded case, they are very similar guitars. We're honestly big fans of Eastman and I don't think you can go wrong with either choice. 🙂
For instrument humidity, there are a few options. We use Boveda packs at the shoppe: www.theacousticshoppe.com/shop/Accessories/Instrument-Accessories/Guitar-Accessories/p/Boveda-Two-Way-Humidity-System-Directional-Humidity-Control-Kit-x64474103.htm All that you need to do is keep them in your case and it will ensure your instrument is maintaining its ideal humidity.
Let us know if you have any other questions!
I have a nice guitar and I regularly play an inexpensive acoustic for rehearsing and monotonous duty. I play a nice instrument when I am in the mood for a more resonant and responsive sound. I, too, would bring the less expensive instrument to a gig and the nicer guitar for a more studio-type of environment. I was given a nice guitar to learn on so I was not readily discouraged.
I rehearse and practice on my expensive guitars because you have to be more accurate...they pick up all the subtleties, and then use my less expensive ones for gigs. I've found my high end guitars make me practice better with more attention to fingering and fretting properly. I've also found that if I practice classical stuff and scales when I go back to pop and country and rock stuff my playing on that stuff has vastly improved.
There are all varieties of factors involved. You would have to have two instruments, each made by the same builder, each with the identical bracing behind the soundboard, each with the same woods and the same dimensions in thickness of the parts, each with the same thickness on the soundboard(!) each with the same mounting systems & molds. Additionally there are all sorts of laminates and then there is the set-up.
i’ve
listened to many comparisons like this. Gibsons vs Epiphone etc. I believe they all sound great in the hands of skilled musicians. I think the critical factors are the setup, strings and being in tune. Many of the most valuable and treasured instruments are loved because they are old or rare or have family history. Within reason a good shop can set up most instruments so they sound fine and are easy to play.
Agree‼️
Agree, but the key word is “fine”.
I have a Canadian Godin Metropolis Composer acoustic with a solid mahogany back and top with layered sides, for a different evaluation. Sounds great!
I have a Seagull S6 with laminate wild cherry back and sides and a cedar top that is still my favourite sounding guitar and probably the one I would be most reluctant to part with.
I think it comes down to the manufacturer and price point. Cheap entry level instruments are always going to fall short when comparing against their more expensive cousins, whether laminate or solid.
Something Seagull does, that a majority of other manufacturers using laminate do not do, is use 3 pieces of solid Cherry in their laminate. Other manufacturers use a really thin piece of the desirable wood on each side, with a thick layer of poplar in the middle, which has a pretty dead tone. I think this 'psuedo solid' Cherry makes a huge difference in tone.
I have an Art & Lutherie guitar.. which is practically the same guitar I believe they are both in the Godin owned guitar companies… mine has cherry back and sides laminate and it sounds better than my TAylor and my Martin .. it’s a spectacular sounding guitar ❤ one of my favorite guitars to gig with.. it was $ 550 I love it! And the other guitars are solid wood 😳 and they were well above $1500😳 I also have two Michael Kelly acoustic guitars that are fantastic! And around the same price) 500 bucks
It really depends upon how the guitar is built, how the bracing is done, and so forth. Alvarez Yairi guitars are well-known for their laminate sides and back but they are comprised of high quality tonewoods and not just cheap wood covered with a pretty veneer so a distinction needs to be made here. There also is no real cost advantage for a Yairi with laminate sides and back over comparably priced Martin or Taylor guitars with all solid wood. I would probably prefer laminate sides as they are much more durable! I have heard too many occasions where someone is playing their solid wood Martin Guitar resting atop keys or something else in they pocket and next thing they realize they have a big crack in the side! Solid tops are absolutely mandatory, no doubt about this.
Even with these 2 eastman guitars here i'm pretty sure the more expensive one gets a lot more attention at the factory than the laminate sided one so it's not really a fair comparison either. I've got an eastman E6D made in the same chinese factory and it sounds incredible, you can tell an actual skilled human being has tuned the soundboard which imo is where most of the difference in tone lies.
Go back to post WW-II arch tops and many were steam bent "Layered" construction. Kay was a big builder of such. They made great beater dance band guitars that could stand up to constant gig'in. Now days the laminate back and sides make great pic-nic and camping guitars. If I had to toss something into a chuck wagon to go on round-up, it's be laminate guitar every time. I'd even look for a multi-piece neck. Stability all over the place 😊
Are you guys familiar with Walden Guitars?
In addition to my Furch Yellow Master's Choice Gc-CR I have a Walden 630CE (Grand Auditorium- which I chose over a Taylor 214CE, I liked the Walden better and it was about half the cost) and Walden O550R (OM size).
They are the best sounding guitars I've heard or played, in the sub $600 range and they include great pickups . In fact the O550E is sub $500!
Both are solid top with layered back and sides, G630CE is solid Cedar top (layered EI Rosewood) and O550E Solid Spruce (layered Mahogany).
I actually use the Walden's as my primary guitars for writer's nights, open mics, and playing Alehouses and the like because frankly when going through most sound systems not to mention background noise, they still sound great and I don't have to put my Furch at risk in situations that are often very tight spacewise.
I've had the person next to me on stage accidentally bang their headstock into the top of my guitar, which hurts less on a sub $600 guitar... though it still hurts.
Walden also make some really nice all solid guitars as well, some sub 1K some a little over.
We'll have to look into it!
In your speaker analogy, the top is the speaker cone, the back and sides are the cabinet. The goal in speaker design is to avoid the cabinet vibrating. This has been embraced by some high end classical builders who do ultra thick laminate sizes.
I own a E1d for a year and is one of my favorite guitars. And a E10ss I likes even better.
They are both great! We should be getting another E10SS here in the shoppe some time soon. Make sure you're following us to be notified👍
That e1d sounds good. I love my e10d. It's my couch picking guitar, and she's a monster. I never really knew it but I do lean twords a mahogany back and sides. It's more of a straight sound. It better for my flat picking style. My d35 is a awesome guitar too, but I feel with all that's going on with the sound. Sometimes my notes blend together to much.
How cool! Thanks for sharing and thanks for watching! Feel free to like, share, and subscribe for more!
Great video, but I just wanted to point out that every manufacturer has different definitions and materials used to denote the differences of laminate versus layered. A clear example of this is Martin guitars which use HPL in their lower end guitars which is basically paper and resin and a thin veneer or a covering that resembles wood. While Taylor guitars use layered veneers for their mid low price guitars. Which is y Taylor comes out more favorable for low price to mid price point guitars, but these are just between big brands.
I would love to see and hear a head to head comparison of the Eastman E1D and the Yamaha FG830 I know these re not necessarily price point comparison but still......??
In this video ,they aren't quite back to back but we do have timestamps for skipping around, so in a way you can compare them directly: ua-cam.com/video/Uq5w_Yp4GPc/v-deo.html
Most pro luthiers I talk to say back and sides has basically an insignificant effect when you compare them in a blind testing. Much more care is usually taken to make the expensive guitars, so they'll get the better bracing and top woods. That's the main difference.
I'm hearing a fairly substantial difference in this comparison.
I'll agree that top, and bracing contribute more, than back, and sides, but all things equal, there is difference.
@@qua7771 All things aren't equal tho :)
@@ShamanicSavant True, every guitar is different, but certain parts/ metatarsals generally achieve certain results consistently. Just because it's not an exact science, doesn't mean it's not a science. There is a margin.
Personally I think starting off with a cheap guitar (with a good setup though) is a good way to reward yourself later. starting off you don't know what a good guitar is supposed to sound like, so upgrading periodically opens your ears. I started with a Rogue followed by a few other cheapies, the jump was a solid top Epi which sounded much better and then followed by an Eastman E2. That E2 was like enlightening, an expensive enlightening into high end stuff.
That's an interesting perspective. We like it. Thanks for sharing and thank you for watching!
It’s insane how cheap you can get a solid wood guitar these days though. A solid wood Harley Benton only sets you back 350 dollars. If you only want the solid top that’s 200 dollars. If you want a laminate you can get a good one for 130 dollars. 350 and upwards and you’re paying for either brand, better wages (American), finish or material quality. The strings matter most though. I’d rather pick a 150 dollar guitar with new strings than a 5000 dollar guitar with old strings.
I heard Brighter and thiner sound from the laminated. Interesting fact is when you sit and play them, the difference is not as obvious sometimes unless you have a sound port like a monitor towards you...
Absolutely! Thanks for watching! Be sure to like, share, and subscribe for more!
The solid has a richer more complex range of overtones as opposed to a nice, though more fundamental range in the Laminate. The solid is also less likely to compress when played hard. Better dynamic range. Good comparison guys.
Thanks for watching and leaving us a comment!
I've got a mid 1970's Yamaha FG-200 with laminated top. I thought it sounded pretty good, except for the lowest notes. I later learned that Yamaha tried making solid-top guitars at that price point, but they had trouble getting them across the Pacific Ocean in good shape via whatever shipping was then available; the solid tops would not tolerate the humidity or whatever. So the solid tops were not better when they got to wherever they were going. Mine getting now is pretty close to 50 years old, and I think the sound has opened up a quite a bit, and neither the neck nor top show any signs of warpification. Maybe you could test some vintage vintage laminated top guitars to see if they might not be self-upgrading.
layered means all layes are in the same directiojn laminated has a middle cross layer aka plywood setup..
I don't have the budget that I used to have when I played for a living .... that dictates what I have to settle for with an acoustic guitar. I purchased a Carvin Cobalt about 13 years ago, and was pleasantly surprised on it's tone and volume ... for an acoustic with a laminate wood top. I had to spend some time getting the playability where I needed it to be, but for $300, I definitely got my money's worth. I made a Nashville Strung Guitar out of the Carvin a few years ago, and bought an Alvarez for about the same money. Still very satisfied with what I got for the money. I have had much more expensive and high end acoustics in the past, but with money limiting my purchases, being willing to settle for a lesser guitar, means that I can own more guitars and gear. If I still played for a living, it would be a different game.
The A guitar sounded more clear and bright but the B guitar sounded more warm. Like the difference from Sitka Spruce vs Mahogany.
I would like to hear the comparison with them plugged in to represent a more realistic comparison in a live setting. I suspect the subtle differences are much less noticeable through Piezo pick ups.
WOW! You are a really good guitar player. They sound the same to me. A is a bit clearer as just a bit more sustain.
Thanks, Paul!
Have you done a head to heat with Eastman and Martin?
It's on our list😄
Interesting comparison, very well done!
Both guitars sounded good overall but certainly a much wider timbrel range on the all solid guitar.
I'd be curious to know if they voice the laminate guitar tops at Eastman with the same care that they might use for their all solid guitars. I honestly don't know anything about their build process.
I think it would be interesting to try a Furch solid top with layered back and sides against a similar body type and tonewood combination in all solid because they voice all of their guitars. Though Furch is now moving to all solid guitars now. However if one of the more recent Indigo or Violet guitars with solid/layered is available it would be cool to try.
I have only one all solid guitar, the Furch Yellow Master's Choice Gc-CR which is light years ahead of the 6 other guitars I have that are solid top with layered back and sides.
Of those guitars my Walden G630 CE is the best sounding. I actually play out with that one the most since most situations I play in are not acoustically optimal and the combination of background noise and not great sound systems would all but nullify the subtleties of the Furch so to me it's not worth risking bringing my Furch into those situations where my Walden sounds more than good enough.
So there are definitely benefits to having a solid top with layered back and sides with a decent Fishman (or Baggs) pick-up to use as a workhorse that is also less susceptible to changes in the environment.
Thanks for that comment! Also, thanks for watching, we're glad you enjoyed it.
I would take either of those two and be happy.
My understanding is the back and sides should be as rigid as possible, same as a speaker enclosure. The top designed to flex/move/resonate in order to produce sound, same as a speaker cone.
The downside of the laminate is it dampens/absorbs some of the sound.
This topic reminds me of Driftood Guitars.
He laminates the sides. Two pieces of wood bound together with Epoxy. His reason for this is quite logical. You want the Top getting as much energy as possible to vibrate and if the sides are to flexible they will take this energy and it will be wasted as the sides don't really contribute to a good sounding guitar.
Stiffening them up causes to vibrate the Top more and longer for a great sustain.
I would even say laminated sides are better, if done right, than solid ones. But admittedly there is a big difference between the craftsmanship of a luthier compared to a company manufacturing hundreds of Guitars each day.
to me theres a certain feeling that i just love with solid guitars that makes me want to pick it up and play all the time
My Japanese 1973 Sagadia dread has a laminated soundboard and it sounds wonderful. Not as good as my Martin J41 but rounder and deserving of being played in the same room. The secret of the Sagadia is an EXTREMELY thin soundboard. One cost £thousands the other £35
Hey, I have a Sagadia too! Do you know where I can find much info on them?
@@leemaverssonofgodIs your Sagadia also a Dreadnaught? I bought a second hand Sagadia which was basically an OOO but it was very disappointing because it had a high action which couldn’t be adjusted because the truss rod was broken. The Dreds are truly great guitars. I can’t remember if I said this but the intonation was slightly out due to the bridge being slightly misplaced. I dealt with this by filing the existing plastic bridge piece until it was flat (flush) with the height adjustable saddle. I then threaded each new string through the ‘eyes’ taken from the previous set of strings. Each string rests on the saddle via its ‘eye’ which I move forward or back until the 12th fret Harmonic Note sounds the same pitch as the Fretted Note at the 12 fret.
I hope I explained this clearly enough!
Not sure what EID and PCH mean at the end.
Would like to see you do a video of the best bluegrass sounding acoustic made today per sound and quality and for the money that you could take to any blue grass jam …#1 acoustic video channel online 🎉
Thanks for the suggestion, Douglas, we can add that to our videos to-do list. I will say that our answer is most likely going to be an instrument in the Eastman line, they are a tough value to beat!
I missed something were the tops the same wood?
they are except the PCH is thermo cured.
Solid top V Lam top is the only thing that I can hear a difference in.
I love watching guitar reviews, and anyone whose paying attention knows that solid wood is better than laminate for all the reasons you described, but I also know that you may be educating people for the first time and that’s cool too. The only problem I have is really with me; I don’t know that I’ll ever be able to justify spending money on a solid wood guitar, and I seem to come away from these thinking that I just had my nose rubbed in it😒. It’s not you, it’s me, but it is.
Well the top needs to move not the back and sides....i have solid guitars and ones with laminated backs and sides.....i take the laminate ones to most gigs because they can take more bumps and abuse.....the average joe isn’t going to notice. Yes an all solid vibrates more. Godin for example doesn’t use crap in their laminates and the ones I have by them are excellent all round The father of the modern guitar ( Torres ) built a paper mache back and sides that sounded excellent. He did it to demonstrate that the top is by far the most important part
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While to me, there were no comparisons between the 2 in volume and depth, the lam wasnt bad. It was quite nice for a lower end guitar
We're right there with you!
Love you guys. B sounded a little more muffled. What is the tune you’re playing ? I wanna spend three years learning how to play it like you guys. 🤪
They were doing a bluegrass arrangement of In the sweet bye and bye.
Why don't they make their laminate tops like the handmade ones with the nomex sandwich? Those sound AMAZING.
I should probably keep my cheap old Ibanaz that I've been playing for years so I don't know what I'm missing.
I have an old laminate flamenco guitar that is extra light because of the lamination, vibration last longer. My solid wood guitars are more beautiful and louder. But did not have the sustained vibration as my laminated light weight guitar. A beautiful laminated guitar can also cost more than a solid. Forget everything Solid or laminated. The real test of sound and Vibration truly depends on a guitar that has been played more. The more you play any guitar, the more that sound wave will force the wood to resonate the unseen barriers inside the Wood. Solid wood is always better in time. But a laminated guitar that is always played, will Win, not only in sound, but will last longer and hold up better to climatic changes to Weather. A well seasoned Luthier, can produce a superior laminated and even more beautiful guitar, than the Solid Wood counterpart. The interior bracings, Sound board, laminated or Solid. all depends on construction inside the guitar. The newness on strings and a well lacquered guitar, is the Key, not Laminated or Solids Woods. For my taste, for Superiority, I would rather pay more for a laminated than the Solids. I own over 300 guitar made from the best Luthiers, and I know the Difference. Some of my most expensive guitars and more beautiful looking one's, believe me, were laminated.
I think Alvarez showed years ago that a laminated back and sides guitar can produce a quality sound. I played a well used DY57 years ago, that I wish I had bought. Incredible sound and comfort. Don’t know enough to speak intelligently about the construction, but research showed is was a solid top and laminated Mahogany back and sides.
The all wood one sounded a bit like if you opened the door or the store behind which the laminated one was played, and with not only a wider range of frequencies, clearer, but a deeper sound too ...
Although the laminated one can be played without any shame, nice for beginers, and may be usefull in certain circumstances for not beginers too.
Thanks for the comparison, a bit late considering this video was done years ago :).
I Just subscribed!!
Welcome to the channel!
May have sounded entirely different in the room you were playing them in, but through my stereo speakers they sounded nearly identical. I actually guessed B was the all solid.
Can you guys play some rock or blues. Not everyone likes bluegrass that plays acoustics. Good videos!
Absolutely! We have several covers up across our channel where we play classic rock, country, blues, folk, and more!
Try laminated top vs solid top
Even on my phone the difference is dramatic. A solid
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Taylor sells $1800 guitars with layered sides and back. I couldn’t imagine paying that much and not getting all solid wood. I guess some people only care about the name on the headstock
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Taylor is a scientologist......all they care about is money!
No chance I would pay that for laminate....you can get a solid Larrivee for that among many other solid wood choices.
My ears couldn't hear the difference through a Denon receiver and Audiophile speakers I think if I closed my eyes I wouldn't even had known there were two guitars... I would think the thermo cured top would have made a bigger difference than the back and sides. Jon compared a guitar to a speaker, well a speaker back and sides are solid baffles designed to separate the sound from the front of the driver from the opposite sound coming from the back of the driver.
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In person, while playing, I can tell a huge difference between solid and laminate but listening through my Bose headphones the tone sounds identical but guitar A rings better and sounds more forgiving. Guitar B sounds identical but with less sustain and sounds more difficult to play. These differences are so subtle that I would not notice if I was not paying close attention.
What might matter even more sometimes is the Bracing, and the finish thickness. And of course the quality of the Top wood, even Solid doesn't mean the same quality...Are these two having the exact same top, bracing and thickness of finish layer?
Those are good questions. Eastman strives to get the most out of every guitar, even at the lower price points so both of these guitars do have hand scalloped bracing. They won't be identical, but they should have the best bracing for each guitar. Also the tops have the same spec, but of course every piece is different, so they won't be exactly the same. When it comes to finish, they should be again, pretty similar but probably not exactly the same. We have found that Eastman has some of the best quality control, so the finish should be at least at the same quality.
@@AcousticShoppe Great, Thank you for the answer! I ordered online a E1D Classic and hope it will be what everyone says about these, great guitars for the price point. I really love the classic finish colors that can be so different from one model to another making them unique in their own way.
@@77guitarts22 It's a great choice, you won't be dissapointed!
@@AcousticShoppe My E1D CLA arrived a while ago
ua-cam.com/video/HXqteaDAvyw/v-deo.html did a demo here, and it's absolutely Gorgeous for the cost, and it sounds so close to a Martin, Taylor, Furch ... it's not just a beginner Guitar, it feels very organic and alive... Can't wait to see it open up more with playing
@@77guitarts22 Nice! We're glad we could help your buying decision, & we definitely agree. They have an incredible value!
Listening on the laptop speakers so no frequencies below 250hz. A is solid, B is laminated.
very very good
I have a Takamine EF740s gn and a Taylor 814ce. The Taylor is louder, has a wider range and better tone. The Tak plays really well and sounds good enough. I refinished the top of the Tak to get it thinner. It helped, louder and less muddled, but it's still not in the same class as a solid wood Taylor. Also: There are lots of great guitars manufactured in democratic countries.
Try the Takamine ...into a TC Helicon ... an amazing sound.
Guitar B would go home with me, Guitar A would stay on the wall.
The Laminated Guitars have a more Complex sound in the various wood grains
If I could not afford an all solid wood guitar. I would find a Sigma, Yamaha, Takamine, Alvarez. They know how to do it right. They are balanced. If you amplify live or record, you can add depth and brilliance, with technology. They don't feed back as easy. They are tougher and less finicky. You wouldn't want to leave it next to the wood stove, or in the car, but probably wouldn't split the top if you did.
Did I miss it? Which one was the all solid wood guitar A or B??
We revealed it at 14:44
Thank you
I've poor hearing, but I could detect a significant difference in note separation, favoring the solid guitar. The solid had more focus too. I don't think the vast majority of non players would hear the difference.
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A well made solid top HPL sides/back w/a great electronic onboard system for the road. Leave the ASW guitars for home and the studio.
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@@AcousticShoppe
Addressing the specificity of my comment in addition to your plug would have been more graceful. Let us know there's an actual thinking, feeling human being on the other end.
I honestly couldn't tell the difference, perhaps I need proper headphones rather than earbuds. I began the test with my eyes shut.. and didn't realise it was switching between the 2 every few bars until I opened my eyes after 15 seconds or so. Then I thought maybe guitar B sounded better... but I think that was purely psycholgical.
martin says the top is the most imoporten part not the body they have been making guitars for over 200 years ill trust them over anyone else.. you lose tone with dimensions not with back and sides.i have seen lamint guitars that cost upwards to 2k so not so cheap there ..
One important consideration that was totally ignored in this video is durability. While there may be an incrementally better sound quality on a guitar built with solid wood back and sides, how long will that better sound be true? One of the biggest foes of guitars is variations in ambient humidity.
How is the humidity where you live? Do you intend on keeping your instrument in a humidity controlled environment? Because a solid wood back and sides guitar is much less dimensionally stable under varying humidity conditions than one with laminated back and sides.
The tonal difference, while somewhat discernible, is not permanent if the top splits due to the dimensional instability of the rest of the instrument.
This is an add for Eastman.
They’re pretty great! 🤷♂️
I’ve got 2 brothers who are twins. Their names are Jeremiah and Jonathan!
It looks like one is a cedar top and the other is spruce
If laminated and of fair quality and brand, just try to use best strings and change them as often as you can. I have seen Buckethead playing a 400$ guitar live. No one complained.
tbh, the only thing that this video reinforces is a good player can work with any guitar
That's fair! Thanks for watching😄 Be sure to subscribe for more!
I personally wish that they would make a solid front and back with a laminate side... I I don't think there'd be two cents worth of difference.. in the tone and the guitar would hold up better in weather changes for a traveling musician going from say Florida to Colorado to Arizona ot California..
Also parallel laminate is another alternative.. though not as strong as cross laminate it would vibrate better.. and still gain some strength over solid because the grains wouldn't line up even though going in the same direction. You could drop the plys down to 2 plys instead of 3.
Also you could save money on the build by.... using solids on the back except use 3 or more smaller boards instead of 2 bookmatched .. So tjere would be other options if the manufacturers wanted to try them
And, on a solid side they put vertical bracing in all the way around the guitar so it's darn near plywood anyway. They have to do this or a simple split could run the whole length of the guitar body something they don't do with laminated sides. So my guess is the vibration is pretty close to the same. They could build a guitar like that and call it the traveling Musician's Friend
This subject is a sore point for me in a marketing sense. First though, I still have the 1974 Takamine copy of a Martin D12-18 that I bought that same year. I used it primarily for campfire playing and house parties. I and my listeners enjoyed it very much for forty years without knowing a blessed thing about solid guitars. It has been shown that, scientifically, people can't tell the difference between a thousand-dollar scotch or wine and a twenty-dollar bottle. The same goes for almost any comparison between a high-price something or other and cheap. If you have been raised on filet mignon you won't appreciate Chuck.😩
When I did learn the difference, I have been really upset regarding the cheap tricks used to sell all laminated guitars using language to intimate that their guitars are just as good, only cheaper than a quality instrument.🤬😩
As you touched on at the beginning of your video. Up until recently, only Godin/Seagull guitars came with solid tops, laminate cherry wood back n sides. Martin did one with solid cherry b n a as an image to Canada. All of a sudden everyone and their brother are making this much appreciated combo for good prices. As pointed out, Tak has been using quality laminate sides for good reason. BTW as a protest, I won't buy any made in china products. Especially guitars no matter how solid. (Guild?) Thanks for an insightful comparison. I believe the following years will see many thousands more satisfied guitar owners/players now that a change has been made to quality wood guitars.🎉😊
It's not the fact that it's laminated...it's what it's laminated with. For sides, lamination is done either to save cost from having to purchase expensive, whole tonewood, OR to double layer using the same tonewood. The latter approach is important when the tonewood is more fragile to bend at full thickness. As such, using two layers of the same tonewood makes bending the sides less risky while also stiffening the sides beyond single thickness, solid wood sides. For example, highly figured (or even spalted) woods like curly maple can be really difficult to bend at thickness beyond a millimeter or so. So bending two such sides and then laminating them together is a common practice (and it's doubtful they'd even advertise that).
Regardless, the back and sides reflect the soundboards vibrations. Stiffer sides (such as laminated ones) will give a louder, more resonant guitar. The shape of the guitar and the tone of the wood will yield whatever frequency response you are trying to achieve. Thus, in no way would "lamination" as a technique be inferior to solid wood models unless those "plys" are with less desirable woods.
Tradition would have the best guitars made from solid, single back and sides of something like Brazilian Rosewood. As such, we are talking around 2mm in thickness. If you could make those thicker, you absolutely would...but then it's too thick for bending. Thus, you could have two such complete sets and you could laminate them to make one single, superior guitar. But the expense would be $$$. Thus, the Taylor, Martin, and Gibsons of the world will be single sided, solid woods in their flagship models.
It's the boutique, custom builders that can experiment with high-end laminations of double-thickness tonewoods, as such one-off creations can be sold at high enough cost to absorb the extra technology going into them. Many such builders experiment with double-thickness tops as well, though the idea behind that is different than back and side laminations.
love you all
We love you Tony!
You are correct about laminated wood being strong but whats that got to do with acoustic guitars?? You're not going to be walking on them are you?
Preferring the all solid wood at the first hearing of the sound difference.