Bottle Grotto, Design & UI Limitations - Dungeon Design in Zelda (LANS/DX)
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- Опубліковано 10 лип 2024
- Bottle Grotto is the second dungeon in Link's Awakening, and while Tail Cave stuck the landing as the game's tutorial and introductory dungeon, Bottle Grotto ends feeling somewhat lacking as a follow up. But the biggest issue it faces is somewhat of a distillation of a larger issue with the game overall.
Come explore!
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A Song used in this video is courtesy of Mikel / GameChops.
Specifically the track "Tal Tai Heights"
Please go support the artist, they make amazing music.
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TIME STAMPS:
0:00 - Intro
0:30 - Before the Dungeon
2:03 - Dungeon Themes and Navigation
12:39 - The Dungeon Boss
14:41 - Conclusion
#linksawakening #zelda #legendofzelda - Ігри
In the Switch remake, the Pol's Voice puzzle adds a "buzzer error" sound if you kill the enemies in the wrong order, so I've seen first-time players notice that sound and as a result just brute-force the order without ever going to the room with the owl statue.
To be fair, I didn't read it completely, so I brute forced the puzzle.
I remember as a kid being stuck on the boss for literal months because for some reason the bottle mechanic never clicked with me even though I had been doing it for the whole dungeon
fun fact about this game's dungeon tracks that i don't really hear that much: the first 4 all use the cave theme as a motif
A joy to watch!
Nice that you keep yourself rather calm while talking about the Inventory issues. A nice reminder for all young devs to keep things like that in mind while reminding us about the limits of old hardware.
My mom and I played the original using the SNES gameboy cartridge and we were stuck on this dungeon for an embarrassingly long time. The Pol's voice puzzle was wild at the time for our brain 😂
It's so cool to see your takes on these dungeons in particular, because I (shamefully) never finished Link's Awakening, and I really need to, so this is inspiring me 🤣 I agree with your sentiment too about the dungeon shapes. I think they really locked themselves into a box with that, though it is a cool concept! I'm interested to see if the other dungeons suffer from the same issue.
Great bideo Capt, as always!!! 🤌🏼🤌🏼🤌🏼
It’s never too late to give the game a try! 👀
You absolutely should give them a shot! Both versions are gems in their own way, though I'd still recommend sticking with the Remake for the vastly improved controls.
I'd say this is the worst of the restrictions in dungeon shape causing issues, there are some incredible dungeons as you'll see in the next few videos. But for sure Bottle Grotto and Catfish Maw suffer trying to commit to the shape.
Also, a little fun fact about the owl hint : I'm french so I played LA in french and in this version the owl doesn't directly tell you to defeat them but says "First, the imprisoned Pols Voice. Last, the skeletal Stalfos". I don't know which translation is more faithful to the japanese one but I wanted to share it
little correction : I went back to see the french translation, it's actually even more different than the english one because it doesn't directly tell the monsters official names so it's more like "First, the creature with big ears. Last, the skeletal knight"
Love your new intro title card - nice touch.
Great analysis as usual - look forward to the next dungeon breakdowns (and your wholesome voice narrating)
I just realized when you were taking about the music of this dungeon that it is a different arrangement of the ones from the Dark World in ALttP.
A fun and informative video, as always. I look forward to the rest!
OH how did I not pick up on that
@@CaptBurgersonTo be fair, it's only that first part that they use. If they used the second movement from the original, it would've been instantly recognizable.
Speaking of missing things, I've been playing through the Oracle games on NSO and I know 100% what you mean about the satisfying feel of rocking back on the D-pad to pick up objects. It's so weird how that is.
It's funny that you compare the Bottle Grotto with the Mario Ghost Houses (even pointing out how Boos are present in both), considering that the Ghost House Theme is part of the Bottle Grotto Theme (as heard at 7:18).
You know, it is strange, I had that in my script initially that it borrowed elements from that theme, but then I was listening to them side by side, and was able to hear the similarities less and less. Maybe I got too in my head about it haha
@@CaptBurgerson It's all good. And thanks for the heart! Your Dungeon Design vids are some of the best documentary videos about Zelda dungeons. Always looking forward to a new vid from you 👍!
Always a joy to watch these. Thanks Capt!
If I get to go to the game shop tomorrow, I'm definitely picking up the Switch version!
Yay! I’ve been waiting since you first posted the Tail Cave video. Thank you for the videos I greatly enjoy them
Yess, I have been waiting for this video 😍 Link's Awakening was my first Zelda game and I remember being so confused by this dungeon's layout as a child 😅 I love the game, especially the old version. I also love this video!
Great video Capt! I love the Link's awakening dungeons so I'm really excited for this series!
please never stop making these, truly top notch content
I had never played this game. I had NES in my childhood but first really mine console was Switch, so I started my Zelda journey with BOTW. Your videos inspired me to start LA and it is really fun! So, thank you for the videos😊
Honestly, you deserve WAY more subscribers than you actually have. I love all these videos you have!
Great video as usual, thanks for your work!
About the dialog of the boss that you say makes the battle too heavy handed: this line has been added in the DX version while in the black and white original the boss doesn't say it at all (and my 10 years old me found it very hard to figure it out at he time). Many extra hints have been added when they made the DX version, and they kept it for the Switch remake 🙂
The heavy-handed hints were added in later releases. In the original release - I mean the black-and-white non-DX release! - the owl statues were actually stone slabs, there was never more than one hint from them per dungeon, and the hints were typically obtuse things (like the order you have to defeat monsters, NOT like "push the blocks together".)
Likewise, the line about the walls being stronger than your sword also wasn't in the original release. The Genie just laughed about being invincible while he had his bottle, and that was all the hint you were given.
bottle grotto is what i see as a sophomore slump dungeon. also believe it or not, but the 1993 version has a smoother screen transition. the stone slab was also placed much later in the dungeon.
Loving those analyses!
When I first beat this game (it was also like a week before the first Link's Awakening DD vid), this was the only dungeon I couldn't remember anything about. The music and map were the only things that I could remember when I thought of this dungeon. In a game full of amazing dungeons, it's weird how Bottle Grotto missed the mark.
Believe it or not, the ability to unequip your sword was one of the points of Link's Awakening when they first made it. The game was mostly to remake A Link To the Past, but to try some ideas that they had cut in the prior 3 Zelda games. The Power Bracelet is in the same design language.
...though the Polls Voice puzzle used to give me some trouble. Still, where you got the hint for it seemed a bit out of the way.
Man the music in this one 👌🏼
Another great video. Never thought too much about the design of this game as I was still young when it came out and holds a special place with me. This was a mostly forgettable dungeon, though a decent boss.
Been waiting 😩😩😩
The wait is almost over 😎
I thought this dungeon was the most confusing besides the last 3. The 5th and 3rd are easier than this dungeon.
This dungeon wrecked my brother and I when we were 5 years old. So confusing and difficult.
Even in returned play throughs as an adult I psych myself out into getting confused all over again from the residual childhood trauma. lol
Enjoyed the video, I must ask if you plan to doing other games/series - like Metroid or Castlevania...? Just wondering, I honestly enjoy the analysis more than anything.
Thanks! Y’know, it’s always daunting to branch out tbh, because when I have done Metroid videos for example they tend to perform very poorly compared to Zelda content
@@CaptBurgerson They don't have to be Metroid, that was an example from the top of my head.
I believe that your older Metroid videos might have been poorly recieved might be more due to the fact that your content is heavily Zelda focused.
Oh I getchu, by the same token, that was just an example haha.
But yeah. It’s not off the table, but I don’t have any firm plans at the moment beyond the long list of Zelda videos I want to make haha
@@CaptBurgerson That's okay. As long as you're considering other games/series. Heck even the Final Fantasy series might be interesting....
I was stuck on this dungeon for literally years because I couldn't figure out the Boss Key puzzle. Good times.
Anyways, after Bottle Grotto there's always been a fork in the road for me. Since after returning Bow Wow the Color Dungeon becomes accessible for the first time. Guess I should ask if that one will be the next video or if it will be on Key Cavern. Technically I think it's supposed to be the fourth at the earliest but that puzzle to enter is extremely easy to memorize in my opinion.
Considering how few buttons the Gameboy had to work with, it's not clear what better options they had. Unlike Link to the Past they allow you to equip any two items at once, so they were clearly trying to reduce how often you have to switch items. What else could they do? Should they have allowed you to assign an item to the Select button?
Link's Awakening, even on gameboy, still uses the 'A' button as a context sensitive action button for certain things, such as speaking to NPCs and opening treasure chests. There's no reason that picking up heavy objects with the power bracelet could not have acted this way as well, (exactly as it does in ALTTP)
That isn't a fix all, but it would alleviate the issue with the power bracelet at least.
That said, I am aware it is a limitation of the hardware, but that doesn't mean it isn't irritating. It may have been better to design the game to work within those limitations instead
Why did they need to make the bracelet an item. It doesn't take any extra buttons to do it the way the remake did. Just as soon as you get the bracelet you're able to pick up any pot by pressing A.
@@hist150project5 : Context-sensitive buttons are not always a good thing. Sometimes games put so much onto one button that you accidentally do one thing instead of another. Have you ever played Tears of the Kingdom and went to pick up an item from the ground, but you accidentally activate Tulin and blast the item away with a gust of wind? Two completely opposite actions on the same button. You wouldn't want to try to swing your sword and accidentally grab a pot instead.
@@Ansatz66 Context sensitive buttons works for the power bracelet though. It's literally how it works in A Link to the Past (the game you mentioned in your comment) and Link's Awakening Remake.
@@hist150project5 : In Link to the Past the A button only really has two uses in combat: picking up things and dashing. Most of the time you won't be pressing it in combat. In Links Awakening, the A button is used for whatever tool you assign to it. It might even be your sword. There's far greater risk that you'd end up accidentally picking something up instead of what you were really trying to do.
Pols Voice are also weak to bombs , which you can have had before the first dungeon.
I had no idea! Thanks
15:31 Honestly I think the iron boots were much more annoying. Mainly because the N64 games have much slower menus. The Gameboy games on the other hand have very quick menus. It takes very little time to open the menu, select the item, and exit.
The n64 menus are indeed slower, but the frequency is magnitudes higher in the GameBoy titles
Are you going to mention doing the entire trade quest being a requirement for the final boss when you get there?
We'll see when we get to the final boss how the script flows
The bottle layout could have been improved by not just shaping the outline but also the inside of the bottle
Absolutely! Fill the bottle up!!
The reason I could not get into Blossom Tales, a little indie inspired by Link's Awakening, was because of the asinine decision to copy the horrible item management! On a modern console there is zero reason to restrict the player to two items especially if you have to swap out the sword and shield!!
That is also my one big criticism with blossom tales. They’re otherwise fantastic games but the item management should have been closer to what Link’s Awakening remake does
Love the videos
This is by far my least favorite Zelda game (out of the 6 I have played) didn’t even get pass dungeon 3 before getting annoyed with it and turning it off
You would prob be so frustrated watching me play bc I usually only equip one item so I don’t accidentally use bombs or magic 😅
👋 hello😊
Link’s Awakening dungeons gave me a headache especially Eagles Tower. Good story but I didn’t really enjoy the gameplay and the overworld was annoying to navigate.
Damn Capt not really fair for you to hate on this game so much just bc you can't Dupe Glitch in it like BOTW & TOTK 🤭
Just beat the Switch version for a 3rd time last week. Plus the dx version my Gameboy color countless times.
I find it hard to fault the original (or the Oracles, by extension) for the inventory finagling. It's definitely annoying, but it's also clearly a hardware limitation. Gameboys/Gameboy Colors only have 4 buttons, so the finagling is kind of a necessary sacrifice when developing a Zelda game for it.
Things like the iron boots in OoT, or the fuse interface in TotK, meanwhile, don't really have that excuse. So I end up more annoyed by those instances of excessive inventory finagling than I ever do when playing the Gameboy games.
To a degree yes, but (and I’m gonna copy past from another comment that I replied to)
Link's Awakening, even on gameboy, still uses the 'A' button as a context sensitive action button for certain things, such as speaking to NPCs and opening treasure chests. There's no reason that picking up heavy objects with the power bracelet could not have acted this way as well, (exactly as it does in ALTTP)
That isn't a fix all, but it would alleviate the issue with the power bracelet at least.
That said, I am aware it is a limitation of the hardware, but that doesn't mean it isn't irritating. It may have been better to design the game to work within those limitations instead
The case with the power bracelet is not hardware limitation though. There was literally no reason why they needed to make the bracelet an item. They could've just made it so that as soon as you picked up the bracelet you can now pick up pots by pressing A next to them, just like the remake did. It doesn't take any extra buttons.
I don't really agree with your opinion of this dungeon. While I don't find the dungeon to be all that memorable or interesting, it's still a good step up from Tail Cave and it's got some good puzzles. It seems your main issue with the dungeon is its linearity and simplistic navigation, but I don't see why that's a bad thing. Not every dungeon has to be a nonlinear maze, it's good to have variety. Plus it's only the second dungeon in the game, so being simple to navigate is fine. You've praised dungeons in the series that are arguably even more linear than this one, so I'm wondering what makes those different from this?
I mean, I repeatedly state in the video that I don’t think the dungeon is bad. It’s just like, average. Not every dungeon is going to be a banger, that’s just how it is. I still had plenty of good things to say about it, including that it is the right step up in the difficulty curve after tail cave.
Not everything is extremely bad or super amazing. Sometimes things are just average. And that’s okay
@@CaptBurgerson I agree with the dungeon being average. I just don't agree with linearity being a criticism.
Linearity in and of itself isn’t inherently bad, I’ve repeatedly said that across not just this video, but multiple videos. I just don’t think the execution here is solid enough to make the dungeon better than average
Are we talking about a problem with Bottle Grotto, or with the Zelda Game Boy titles as a whole?
Both! You’ll see when the video premieres lol
@@CaptBurgerson I actually didn't notice it that much in Bottle Grotto because it was a fairly linear dungeon. It became more noticeable for me in Key Cavern. But I suppose you will have something different to talk about in that episode.