Why You've Been Collecting Koroks WRONG This Entire Time
Вставка
- Опубліковано 1 лип 2024
- Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom are filled to the brim with Koroks. Every object that seems slightly off in these open worlds tends to be one of the little guys hiding from Link. But before you interrupt your quest of saving Zelda and stopping Ganondorf, consider for a second why you're really doing this. And let me tell you, you've been collecting Koroks in Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom entirely wrong!
#zelda #botw #totk - Ігри
I'm pretty certain the developers did not have completionists in mind when designing the Koroks. The average person is not going to come anywhere near finding all of them! Nor do they want or need to. The reward for getting all of them was probably a final thought of, "What if we actually do have some crazy fans who find all of them? We should give them *Something* . Shouldn't we?"
This was a great video. You deserve more likes!
What could be a reward for players that spend dedicated months and playing for a long amount of time every day collecting koroks... ah yes! *S h i t*
People get mad that the only reward for getting all the Koroks is just a giant golden crap... Missing the _entire point._ The reward being complete crap is the devs saying "you really didn't need to do all this." You're not _supposed_ to try and get them all. They have that many so that its easy enough for any player to get enough without struggling to find them all.
I'm always a completionist for games I like, but even I refuse to even attempt getting all the Koroks. Its just not worth it just to see that percentage indicator reach 100%
Imo it’s fully worth seeing that 100%. I’ve done literally everything you can do besides the koroks (still chipping away at those lol) and I only have like 70% completion, it’s ridiculous but I get it’s that way on purpose so I don’t get mad or blame them for it. I feel like true completionists know they’re not the target audience for these games and do it more to explore everything the game has to offer than expect some reward at the end of it all.
People are not missing the point. It's just that their OCD meds aren't working.
@@sphinx1908 I really do understand this I was a completionist in the past, because I wanted to get everything out of every game I played, before I bought a new game. Because I was kid with limited finances. Then I got a job and earned my own money, so making a game last as long as possible was less important, and my enjoyment of just playing and having fun became more important. Thoug I still only buy a new game after I feel I'm done with the current one. I swore to myself to have as little of a backlog as possible (a backlog of games to play just stresses me out).
@@phoenixdowner lol
I hate this logic. Why spend so much time and resources developing something I'm not supposed to play? What's the point of wasting time on something the player's not supposed engage with? That effort would've been better spent on something more worthwhile. Why is "you're not supposed to get them all" even a valuable lesson? They could've just made fewer seeds with more reward. No one's missing the point but you, since you don't seem to understand the complaints in the first place.
I think it’s obvious that Korok completion is optional. But they do count for 100% completion on the map screen, while monster medallions do not.
Basically the point of Koroks is to squeeze a little more life out of the game once it’s over. It’s not about the Koroks themselves, it’s about discovering every inch of this huge world and interacting with this world in every possible way.
yes, exactly, 100% of the MAP completion. the only reason it counts towards that is because it is displayed on the map, getting 100% map completion just means you discovered everything, it doesn't mean 100% game completion. for example treasure chests could also be counted towards game completion, since they never respawn so getting all of them is possible
I actually love the Korok puzzles. Did you know that the sound design helps you find those flower chains you have to hunt down? The puzzles and the "Yahaha!" is itself the reward once your storage opens up to a helpful level.
there are fomo people and completionist people, and also people who just have fun finding stuff and dont care if theres a reward or not
That last category are not complaining, though 😂. It makes me smile every time I hear that Ya-ha-ha, and I’ve been playing these games for literal thousands of hours. I did find them all once in BotW, but I haven’t cared to in TotK yet. I might one day, but I might not.
I really don’t understand the mentality of wanting to 100% complete a game, and then groan and complain that you have to complete this self imposed challenge.
Once I have enough weapon slots to comfortably accept boss fights or raid big camps, I only collect korok seeds on the way to something, if I'm bored and have time to kill. If I'm just exploring and goofing around without any objective, then yea, let's hunt some koroks for a bit.
The reason for the amount of seeds is so the average player can max their inventory w/o finding all the korocks.
I’m mid-video while typing this. It’s interesting we came to the same conclusion.
Great minds think alike 😅
That much is obvious and without a guide there is no way to actually know how many there are. I just wish they'd tell you how many you need. And the "oh, this time being me Mmore" is also annoying since it's not even the same for the sword and shield pouch. And you still need over 500 which is quite a lot still
It would have been great to have a few fortunetellers who could help you find everything.
One who is very cheap, but the directions are a riddle in itself.
One who is expensive, but basically pinpoints you where to look and what you need to do.
And the third one is a healthy middle ground between the first two fortunetellers.
not really, the point is you have to go and look for them yourself, they have so many so you don't have to find them all to get enough
Even if it only takes you 1 minute to find and solve any single Korok puzzle... Getting them all will still take you 16.6 hours, _minimum_ !
Thankfully most of them only take several seconds if you know what you’re doing when you see the puzzle, but yeah the long ones can be annoying
Something he dosent talk about is how the Koroks are literally children, their puzzles are easy because your basically playing hide and seek with a 8 year old
I did like 3 100% runs of BoTW (2 in MM), I never cared about getting stool for a reward, I cared about being able to 100% a game I loved to the core... so for me the reward was pointless... I did it because I could and I was proud of it...
I'm well aware that the Korok seeds were meant to be abundant so that players wouldn't struggle to find enough for getting more inventory space. I was aware of that when I 100% completed BotW (twice, once for normal mode, and once for master mode), which is why I don’t really feel like it's fair to put that against the game. Same thing with TotK: it took me over a year to complete the game (though I did take a 9 month break from it at one point), 100%, every armour upgrade, Korok seed, and map location. But I don’t hold that against the game, because I chose to do that.
I'm on a 100 percent run for every zelda on switch, started it in January. I'm counting nso games but not spinoffs. It's fun to do 100. I put in 95 hours on Tears back when it released then dropped it for now, but I'll go back to it in my run that I'm doing. There are many challenges people find for these games, people don't need to criticize others for how then enjoy the games. Lots of people in the comments seem to be doing so. 100% is no different than a speedrunner or 3 heart challenge players alternate way of enjoying the game.
I don’t want to collect them all for the fear that when I found what I think is the last one, the korok won’t say you’ve found us all
I actually found them all. It's kinda its own reward and the poop not only is funny and another korok seed but there's nothing at that point of the game that could make a difference. It was way more tedious than necessary, I guess they wanted to show off how big the map is, but some were well hidden enough and you can use the mask to find them.
I never bother trying to find all of the Korok seeds. I just get enough to make my inventory big enough to fit a good amount of weapons
The best idea I've heard for fixing this is the idea that after you find blank% of the koroks, the concentration of found ones in the forest let the rest of the lost ones find their way back home on their own. That way you can still have it reward you for exploration everywhere, but it still feels finished and satisfying for completionists.
Also as implied it would be a lot more cool if the koroks you find made their way back to korok forest building a community there as you find them.
So 2 things that stood out to me in thus video. At one point you say there are over 1000 seeds to collect. That's wrong, there are exactly 1000 seeds to collect. Also, you say the game doesn't track your total number of korok seeds. This is also wrong, every loading screen gives you your total, every shrine you enter, every fast travel point it'll be on screen next to how many rupees, spirit orbs, and shrines you have found.
I.dont understand people who would force themselves to collect every seed.
Boredom during lockdown is a strange motivator
Needing something to do to kill time during summer waiting for snowboarding season.
Agree. Feels like masochism lol
I'm a game completionist. I actually find the number of koroks fantastic. They're making sure you're looking at every nook and cranny in a game that was obviously developed with love. I'm glad for it.
And for context, my first teether was an Atari joystick. Literally. I've been gaming the entirety of my forty one years on this planet.
While there is no specific counter for the koroks like we have for the hyrule compendium, on loading screens(ex. when fast travelling) there is a number that displays how many koroks youve collected. Just something im not sure if you implied it or not in the video.
Thank you! The point of these big open worlds is to accommodate different playstyles in addition to providing a different experience with new replays. However, it is an accomplishment to 100% regardless but you'll most likely burn yourself out.
that's a good point. they are here only as you need them, they don't need you to find them all.
Dang it's a shame you don't have that much subs your videos are fire 🔥 👌
Thanks so much!
Korok mask is essential. I love finding them all
Koroks date back further than Ocarina of Time. They're basically dressed up copies of the little guys in Nausicaä. Kodama are the children of old trees. They make the same clicking noise as well.
I’m now imagining Chris Pratt just saying “yah ha ha“ in his normal voice
I genuinely enjoy the “I need to find my friend” koroks! I always stop what I’m doing when I hear their little call. They are fun and sometimes surprisingly challenging. Not a fan of the dandelions, so I don’t do those.
What the developers should have done was NOT have Korok seeds contribute to the map progress bar. It should have just taken into account the total number of slot upgrades.
but why not count it when it does fill out the map? maybe they should've balanced it better with koroks counting for a lower percentage than things like shrines, but idk, you don't have to 100% the map screen
But the korok puzzles arent really puzzles? And they aren’t ever very interesting or new. I suspect for a lot of people is they just don’t notice koroks, and then by the point they DO need koroks, its because they’ve ran out of inventory and are tired of not having enough slots. Then they find out how EXPENSIVE it is, so people end up doing a bunch of korok puzzles at once to “get it over with”.
Heres a couple of ideas I came up with:
1. Scrap Bubblefrogs and replace them with korok creatures. Players already explore caves, and using those would increase players inventory over time as they explore the map.
2. Give the player a 3rd way of getting korok seeds. Maybe there are evil koroks in the depths, that drop seeds once destroyed
3. Just reduce the cost of upgrading your inventory. Add in some super koroks that give you 5x at a time and you find them chilling in the world, wandering
From my experience, getting 50 to 80 Koroks is all that is really necessary. Also new sub👍
I am usually a completionist but refused to collect all the Koroks in BOTW and will do so again in TOTK.
As a completionist the Korks are the bane of my existence, but they're still cute so
I needed this. I think many players need this.
I've been doing it right then. The koroks are only interesting in way that you at least found something to do in an otherwise empty area.
Great video! I love Koroks and your perspective enriches the game's experience.
Thanks!
Well said. There are many pitfalls in designing open-world games, and I think BotW/TotK do better than most. But one trouble, for players or devs, is seeing an open-world game as a huge, enormous linear game. For better or for worse, an open-world game should be one where ten people can play the same game and have eleven different experiences.
"The development team never meant for you to collect every single Korok seed."
Then they dont know their audience.
This is what I've been saying.
I’m at 650 and my brain just can’t even fathom that there are still 350 left. I’ve been everywhereeeeeeeee.
I’m still looking forward to finding the rest though!
I appreciate that you understand and empathize with the different perspectives! The entire time I was going "me" at *both types* while also going "well yeah of course" about developer intent. For me, it's because 18 mainline Zelda games before hand set expectations and habits. Whereas brand new IPs with clean slates are different. I can shut those habits off for other open world genre games.
Zeldas rewarded me for taking that time to find everything or backtrack to inaccessible areas when I get new items and abilities. It felt satisfying, intuitive, and natural to find everything and see everything. I'm going to miss how that felt like an overarching puzzle in its own right. I felt I intimately experienced the world rather than merely traveled it beyond taking in the sights and atmosphere. If everything is accessible the moment I clear the tutorial then that doesn't feel like Zelda gameplay with or without korok design telegraphing that I shouldn't want to complete it.
We got a taste of the "you don't have to" with Skulltulla House in OoT when the eldest family member emphasizes he'll be fine if you don't lift the final curse but at least OoT's UI informs you of whether you cleared an area of Skulltullas.
Of course, I do honor their intent on emphasizing exploring nature and having freedom because Miyamoto cites exploring natural landmarks and old shrines as a kid for the inspiration. So in a way, this seems like a dream realized. And
I'm not saying I need linearity and hand holding whatsoever. I just miss taking notes on what suspicious objects require me to return with new abilities. I also miss structure to my options- several regions, at most, only require you to pass through them to finish the game
I probably should see if Master Cycle makes travelling more relaxing and streamlined in next playthrough but....
iEchoes of Wisdom might satisfy my needs but if dungeons are like TotK shrines where too much cheesing and too much options takes away the satisfaction then I'll have to just move on to other games and accept that I'm not a target audience anymore. Oh well🤷
Aside from the inventory upgrades which makes finding Korok seeds worth it, other than this I tend not to spend most of my time looking for them. The reason is is that in my mind with a storyline with a plot is grave as what you find in tears of the Kingdom I kind of feel like I don't have time to look for Korok seeds let alone help a Korok find its partner when there are other more pressing matters to deal with. But that's just me.
I think a smaller but more core problem lies under the Korok Seed problem, these two games have super rigid reward structures. Tears is a little looser, but BotW you only get Spirit Orbs from Shrines (some armor is in chests in them yes, but then most of those are just blessing shrines so not really a shrine) you only get Korok Seeds from these puzzles, you only get weapons from specific places etc.
For most things in the game that works because it lets you map the game out despite how big it is, but with Koroks being useless after getting half of them it gets annoying seeing them. Even if you enjoy doing the puzzles, getting nothing, and almost worse than nothing, for continuing to do them feels bad. I think a small fix could have been to have them spawn a handful of resources and/or rupees after you got the last one needed for Inventory upgrades, or maybe have them do that for every one of em. Granted resources too become useless rewards [that far into the game] but still better than something telling you you shouldn't have kept going.
Simply put, the korok seeds aren’t a collectible, they’re a _currency._
I think that instead of using koroks to increase weapons they will just reward you with rupees like 50 or 100 depending on the challenge will be better and avoid the task to have to hunt them down to be able to carry more weapons and just enjoy the exploration and be happy when you discover one by accident and be rewarded for it
But there are many other ways to earn rupees, being able to increase space is their special reward for exploring. And then the bag upgrade would be purchased with money that already has many uses and can be farm.
@@inva88I just feel that if their argument is that we don’t need to collect all the korok seeds but they are needed to increase the ability to carry more weapons, than they are saying that you REALLY need to find them. I think they o would preferred koroks had a different incentive.
@@ll.5147 you need to collect some koroks, not even half of them for the upgrades. They encourage you to explore, that's the entire point of the game.
*at least there aren’t any korok in the depths*
Koroks are just a side distraction, for me if I see a korok puzzle that's easy I give it a shot. If it's too dificult for a casual playthrough or it takes me too far off the path I'm going I just mark it with a leaf on the map and maybe get back to it later.. 🙂
I agree that the idea is more just to have a lot of them all over the place so players can find a good amount no matter what they do, the problem is there will always be people who want to find all of a thing if there's a finite number of something and the fact that they contribute to the map completion percentage encourages said people even more. As someone who did "100% complete" a lot of Zelda games before, it is kind of strange to think I may never do that for Tears of the Kingdom because I do think it's my new favorite in the series, but at the end of the day I guess that dissonance doesn't really mean anything. In the future I guess there's even more they could do to discourage players from feeling like they should find all of them, like having the puzzles tied to a currency like the Secret Seashells in some of the handheld titles which are simply replaced with rupees once you've found enough to acquire all the rewards. In Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask they also had little puzzles in the overworld but they just produced fairies or rupees so people probably didn't feel like they were obligated to find and do all of them.
I do think something like the shrines or bubbul gems are a more manageable collectible to try and go after, and probably part of the problem with the Koroks is also the fact that they truly can be anywhere with very little sense of if you've found them all in an area or not unless you use a guide. This was much worse in Breath of the Wild where they didn't even have those little arrows pointing to them so they could technically be at the top of any tree. Exploring the entire map is fun, but feeling like you have to climb every hill and tree individually just to check if they have something to "100% complete" the game is less so for a lot of people, even if it's really a self-imposed challenge.
Ultimately I love the open air Zeldas and I don't really agree with many of the criticisms, even the ones I do agree with I think are overly magnified more than they deserve to be by those who don't like them. But perhaps there are more ways they can encourage players to not be so worried about completing everything 100%. I also see people complain about "grinding", but you don't really need to do that either unless you want four stars on every single armor set, which really isn't necessary and if anything probably makes the game too easy. The game encourages that even less than it does finding all the Koroks, so I guess there will always be people who feel like they have to do every single thing, but there are still more ways to discourage it. Maybe they could do what Rockstar sometimes does, like in Red Dead Redemption 1 and 2, and have a 100 percent checklist that isn't actually 100 percent, so players can feel like they fully completed the game and got the reward for it without actually combing the entire map.
Awesome Video Bro!
Thanks!
No problem.
I thought the way they were gonna implement TotK was that it was gonna be a payed DLC for BotW where once you beat the game, Zelda can roam around with you until a cave opens up to the underground of the castle. And that would lead to the Cutscene that transforms the land. Then all of the ground land would be changed due to some of the ground being pulled into the sky. Link would just have a second ability wheel for all his new arms abilities. The Mwlice taking him from full hearts back down to 3 resets his growth, he would no longer have the strengthto wield the Master sword, but would also need to repair the sword, so finiding the sword smith to repair and upgrade the master sword to the butter sword could've been a thing. I saw so much potential for TotK. Turns out it was it's own game. That just ran on the BotW engine...
The changes were numerous to the terrain, but the feel of the game, it's basically just a harder version of BotW.
This would be true if it wasn't for the total completionist percentage you get when finishing the game. Sadly, you must collect every koroks for it to show 100%, and this kills completionists.
I'm personally just annoyed been the upgrade system for the weapon/shield swapping mechanic that the game is largely centered around is locked behind something that has no narrative connection to it.
The problem is that it becomes practically impossible at a certain point to find them. I don't think nearly as many completionists would have a problem with it if after you find something like 3 or 4 hundred, you get a map that shows the location of the rest of them, that way you aren't wandering around aimlessly.
The original intended purpose is not the problem, it's that they didn't think about/consider the completionist community at all and what would be a satisfying way to handle it. Instead, they threw in the laughably useless korok mask.
In fact, if they wanted something that told you approximately where koroks you're missing are without giving away the exact location, they could have used a system they already have in TOTK! The light root map! It would work so much better for koroks than the current system of saying f*** you to the completionist community.
There are just so many ways to fix this problem....
But telling how many are left would encourage you to get them all, and that isn't what they wanted.
The korok mask is made to find more koroks while exploring, making it easier to get the upgrades, not to find them all.
@@midnatheblackrobeyou can always use a guide, still it's more laborious, but if they don't want you to get all why they would solve that?
@@inva88 You can use a guide, but then it's hard to tell which one's you've gotten already without laboriously checking each individual one. Also you could miss one and you can't tell.
As for whether it was intended, sure, maybe it wasn't, but imo it's good game design to at least consider other play styles. Does it hurt anything? Does it significantly detract from what koroks were originally designed for? If you ask me no..., but I'd be interested in hearing another perspective.
Unless you are making a niche game (which BOTW and TOTK definitely aren't), I think it's important to consider other play styles apart from how you originally intend a feature to be interacted with. In fact I would argue that's one of the cornerstones of good game design, considering how other people will interact with and enjoy your game. You can tell people to get over it, and sometimes that's best to make a game better for another audience, but I don't believe that is the case here.
@@inva88 sorry I missed one of your points. I won't deny that it does encourage people to get them all, as that's going to be the effect of anything you do to make it easier to find them. However, I would argue that 1) even with a system like that in place, it's still probably only going to be the dedicated completionists who find them all, it's just making it more fun to do so. And 2) does it actually detract from the current system at all? Especially if you only give it to a player after they've found 3 or 4 hundred? I'm curious what your thoughts are.
Each person enjoys different things about zelda, I enjoy 100 percenting zeldas, but not other games, aside from 1 or 2 here or there. Usually, unless there are missable items in a game, i play through the game normally first to experience the story, Then i go back and do everything else post game for the 100 percent. If there are missables in the game i get them as soon as they become available but then go back to playing normally.
Im actually currently doing a 100 zelda challenge for every mainline game that's on switch counting NSO games, but not counting spinoffs, and have done botw already, it takes about 200 hours to 100 using an online interactive map as a checklist.
This guy joined one day after my birthday 😂
So once again the devs dont care about their players. They made a game that in one way or another alienates almost everybody. Wether its story in consistences bugging the canon enthusiasts,the 7min side scroll beginning slowing speed runners, or this. Its a game that fails to truly satisfy on so many levels.
Tell them to watch your videos so they can fix their FOMO.
I collected them because I f* love the game and I wanna play the game as long as possible
So basically "FU you're wrong"
Same thing with Mario Odyssey power moons
I am definitely FOMO, the thought of collecting them all is way too overwhelming lol however I am ADHD, (probably AuDHD, but that will require a different psychiatrist lol) and I go on hyperfixations of playthroughs. Sometimes it's purely korok based, others I will avoid them like the one 'wrong' fork in the cutlery drawer. Just gotta see how I feel when I pick up the controller 😅
I got 100 percent in BotW and I had to do the same for Tears!
While I do agree the seeds are mot really intended to be all collected, you ate wrong about the game not giving an indication. When you compete the game, on your map screen, the game will display a % complete, and that factors in korok seeds found.
This is much different than say, Legends Arceus where the endgame literally instructs you to catch all Pokémon. I feel that is reasonable attainable. The Koroks are bad because you basically need a master map to compare to, and of you miss one, the odds of being able to narrow it down are near non-existent.
I find them fun to collect.
This is what I have been doing 😂 5:32
I feel like BOTW did it better than TOTK.
Important milestones led you to the grand point of the game…
Whereas that feels very absent in TOTK
That's me, a completionist. And all for what, a poop hat.
If you could actually wear it, I think people would actually be a lot happier lol
I did everything in totk and I missed one map point somewhere so it’s stuck at 99.95 and it’s annoying. The game is too big. I got 100% in botw in both regular and master mode more than once.
Edit: also, I finished chapter 7 in Celeste and stopped there because it was fun for me until that point and got frustrating. I did 112% hollow knight numerous times, the only thing there I haven’t done is pantheon 5 all bindings (I’ve done each binding for p5 and p1-4 all bindings, radiant all bosses too); I’ve even gotten my path of pain time down to 3m20s.
I feel your pain 😅
Did you get soft locked out of the final Hinox?
Did you get every cave entrance? I was stuck at 99.79% for a while and it was because I missed 5 entrances among a cluster of sand traps in the eastern part of Gerudo desert. Also, the named locations in the depths can be easy to miss. Try locating forest areas on the overworld map then switching to the depths to see if there is a corresponding grove listed on that map.
Thanks for the responses everyone. I’ve just not been wanting to check off everything one by one on Zelda maps; I’m missing something like a grove or cave or some misc. settlement map point. I’ve done everything, koroks, side quest/adventures, schema stones, old maps, monster medals, shrines, bubbl frogs, all armor (fully upgraded), yoga hideouts, Hudson signs, like all of it. Hahaha. I get everything out of the games I like. One day I’ll find it. It’s gonna be something lame; I’ll let y’all know if and when I do.
I ignore them 100%. They're boring. Maybe I'll do a grand Tour of Hyrule in the future and complete a bunch, or maybe I won't.
thorougly enjoyed this video
Happy to hear that!
Must............find..................them.................................ALL! 😂 Relentlessly dedicated player here!
I understand this but i still fundamentally disagree with this design philosophy. Why should a game be designed in a way where most of its side content, which already makes up a majority of the total content, is considered not worth doing?
koroks are not 100%
If only the developers had the core fanbase in mind when developing BotW and TotK.
Im both FOMO and completionist. I hate this game :D
The difference is the star's in mario are actually fun to collect whereas koroks are very seen one seen them all then copy paste over and over and theirs way too many of them if they only had enough for all upgrades and focused on them being unique and with a better tracker like in the deku tree if it had a physical map of where they are that you could use to find a rough location or there's this many left in this region or that region just something better to track them with and have them evenly spread across the map or even all 3 maps I think people would havemhated them alot less even if they were harder to find the reward would also be worth the effort increased inventory not increased aggravation and tediousness
97 subscribers for something like this? Wth is wrong with this platform? 😂
"A pretty vocal group" that's a loud vocal minority and nothing more, I love how UA-cam channels with no subscribers always try and bait with odd comments in their videos like that
Not really sure what you mean, a vocal minority IS a vocal group
I feel like BOTW did it better than TOTK.
Important milestones led you to the grand point of the game…
Whereas that feels very absent in TOTK