Kpop Training & Global Girl Groups. We are so back? | Let’s Discuss Pop Star Academy: Katseye.
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I am also so excited for today's video because I am dying to hear your thought on Pop Star Academy: Katseye. It was quite fascinating to me. What are your thought? 👇🏾
I haven't watched it but the BBC are currently airing a 6 part show where they sent a british boyband to train as a K Pop Band
@@adamstanley7614 Oh bet! Imma check that out
I watched the dance videos when they were coming out. I'm glad we didn't have the Netflix show during the voting, it would have made it very unfair. Their star quality was what should matter, not their personalities imo.
So, I haven't watched the documentary yet, but I did watch the survival show itself, and I completely agree with a lot of what you said! I noticed a lot of the same things, especially about the voting... and Missy I think her name was, I wasn't feeling it witth the way she handled the girls at times.
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Lexi leaving was such a power move, you could tell Mitra was genuinely agitated.
she really solidified herself as my eternal fav for that. such dignity and grace, i looove that she owned her exit. badass!
Mithra was fuming 😂 you know she wanted tears but Lexie was like "✌️😜"
the people that are hating on manon, sophia, and late for something that happened a year ago and that has clearly been resolved are so annoying
I agree, the girls are clearly fine now and I'm rooting for the group. They all have something special
@@nnnn-sc2im The people that vote based on looks are annoying, but here we are 🤷♀️
Get over it jfc
@@NickaLah people voted over nationality too, I don't hear y'all complaining
IDK why you people want to dismiss it so fast. People get mad over Love is blind drama and THAT happened a year before its aired and I never see anyone make this point. The audience got this information NOW, if you want to be upset be upset and the label for showing this KNOWING this would happen
The truth they don't tell you is, they pick the girls based upon visuals and body type before considering dance and vocal ability. These were the best of 100k girls who had they body type they were looking for in addition to some talent.
Mmmm okay that makes more sense why they were doing the whole looks thing versus getting people who could actually sing and dance almost equally as well. I was like global applications and we got people who can’t even sing😭
@@jikookietings2507 it also probably had something to do with the fact that (most likely) most of the people who auditioned were teenagers who couldn’t move across either the country or the world for this opportunity.
@@wonkamintohhh good point.. i can’t imagine everyone is willing to have their kid drop out and move to another country.. possibly even have to move in with them..
@@CamrynSuzanne They are using the Korean trainee system. While it is based off the Motown records trainee system, it's a lot more intense. The biggest difference is, the Korean system believes that anyone can be "trained" to become talented. Rather than you either having talent or you don't.
This system works well for Kpop and Cpop...not so well for western groups....also, as quiet as it's kept, the "united nations" concept never does well. All the biggest groups were of the same ethnic background or adjacent. Mixing of the asian, biracial, white, etc doesn't tend to test well in focus groups. Most of the time, the group has to all be of the same race or ethnicity and *maybe* a token so they can claim diversity.
That's a fair assessment but I also believe how a girl looks physically is a big factor into forming a group. The group has to look cohesive at the end of the day
We need a male RnB academy! Them boys need some training
Factual 😭😭😭
@@CamrynSuzanne id love to be on a boy group svs 😭
@@thaiballer1 there is a show on the BBC where a boyband gets trained like a k pop band
Yesssss 😩
Fr
so glad the girls and manon squashed it you can tell how close theyve become since the show
Me too! I don’t want the documentary drama to hinder their growth because I think they have something special
“the visual” in the group tends to get special treatment, they dont need to be as talented bc they’re bringing the face (and usually end up the highest earners). It’s not fair but who said the music business was fair?
I think the girls just had a hard time accepting that reality, particularly Sophia and Lara who are more talent > visual and therefore knew they'd never be as popular as Manon. I THINK THEY HAVE ACCEPTED IT BY NOW
@@mariasol1545 popularity always changes with time . Definitely Manon is the most popular member right now but I have a gut feeling in 1 or 2 years it will change . We can also see it in present time especially with Shopia , Lara and Megan that their popularity is increasing more rapidly compared to other members. Of course ethnicity will play a huge part in members' popularity which will put Shopia and Lara at advantage. Especially Lara , in India not many people know about Katseye but with time when they discover Katseye, her popularity will be an unstoppable force.
@@dishanarjinary2546Manon will still be most popular. visuals always are tbh only Megan will rival her as I see both her and Manon getting love calls from fashion houses in the next few years and yoonchae as well Sophia Lara and Daniela are pretty but they're not gorgeous
41:00 lexie had asked to leave but they didn’t let her so she intentionally missed rehearsals the other girls probably didn’t say anything bc they knew she was gonna leave
Okay, thanks for this context. Did she address this after the documentary dropped or after dream academy?
@@CamrynSuzanne she had said it right after the elimination. if you watch it again, you'll notice that when they called her to the office , they mentioned how she had already asked to leave and because she had stopped attending rehearsals, they finally decided to agree and let her go.
Therr were other girls taking a day off and thats fine
Can't blame her
And didnt mitra try to frame it as lexie was missing rehearsals so they asked her to leave? Mitras a demon fr
manon is kinda the proof that being beautiful is a double edged knife 😭😭
literally she was being hated for something out of her control, did she force Hybe Getten to bring her a personal music trainer to Switzerland or fans to vote for her so much, or for her to get centre role😂 she just showed up and was getting hate for others treating her well
A lot of show watchers don’t understand that manon was brought onto the show to debut, as well as lara but ppl don’t complain about her bc she didnt have any drama w the other girls
@@englishbladelol that always happens in these survival shows...the contestants who join later than the rest get that negative attention since the others already bonded and so on and they are obviously all on edge and sensitive during that whole training process....but it ends up getting resolved with time after they get to live together....I saw it happen with a lot of other groups
@@englishblade yeah but her skipping classes and breaking rules was in her control though and they were not hating on her they were justifiably upset with her yall need to stop throwing the hate word around jesus
Nah she could've taken practice and training more seriously. The other girls put in hard work for well over 2 years.
I know simon cowell is about to chip in with the idea of popstar academy lol
Oh absolutely
@oliviajayward He did that and it was called Popstars. Produced Nicole Scherzinger's first group, Eden's Crush I like 2000/2001.
there has been "pop star academies" just under different names for years
@@levi-dz9je pop stars revivals which had girls aloud on 😭
Yeah, I thought he also kinda does that with XFactor, and he really lucked out with Little Mix, 1D, and fifth harmony. However, I think what I like most about this kpop/western pop ordeal is the training that goes behind making these starts. I just wished they debuted older contestants rather than ones who are like 14/15/16
LOOK AT CAMRYN WITH THE LONG VIDEOSSSS. ALSO while we’re on the topic of girl groups i think WE ALL should stream FLO’s debut album November 15th. ACCESS ALL AREAS LETS GOOOO, THE RNB 90S GIRL GROUPS ARE BACKKKK
Ayee you noticed! This may be my longest video yet🫣 and yes I will be seated for their album!! I’ll definitely do a full review on my patreon
FACTSSSS, PRESAVED STRAIGHT AWAY
Just gonna say it, new Destiny's Child on route with FLO imo
FLO LIFERS in the house!!!
The funniest comment I saw on twitter was "a facecard so sickening it puts people in therapy" 💀💀💀 People who didn't keep up with the show don't realize that the only thing voters had were 3 min videos of the performances and the contestants' social media. As a result, visuals and star quality played a HUGE role in who got votes. Initially, Daniela wasn't popular, but her performance in Fearless showed people she had star power. The only person outside of the top 6 in votes that made it was Megan. People knew Emily was a great dancer but her singing wasn't good and people felt she didn't fit visually with the top ranking girls. Plus, you only got to vote for a certain number of girls at each stage.
I saw that too😭😭 yeah I figured and pointed out that a lot of us who just watched the doc have to remember (especially when it comes to emily) that it was votes based. And voters didn’t have all the pre training info so ppl who are so sick about who went home and the line up…it was fan voting that helped pick the group😭
@@CamrynSuzanne Seeing the girls stories and personalities probably would have changed the lineup, so I see why it's shocking. Honestly, most of us were shocked they actually listened to our opinion (we had just finished watching another HYBE show that completely ignored what we wanted...)
@@sasasavage5047yeah the personality thing would have foresure switched up the line up. And that’s why sometimes it is important just to look at things for what they are vs. diving into their personalities and personal lives. Bc when all said and done I think they chose a great group overall
Tbh for that other show they did take ppl's opinions, it's just that they prioritized Korean and Japanese voters opinions more since the group was for that market, and we all know how international opinions can be the total opposite from Korean ones in those sort of shows @@sasasavage5047
I def agree bcuz watching the little performances and that’s all I was getting I agreed with the lineups. Adela never stood out to me, neither did Emily, Manon was in the middle and I was very sad about Iliya. WATCHING the documentary though definitely seeing their hard work and everything my mind was changing but hard work doesn’t put you in a group. That one girl whose name I completely forgot the blonde one she worked extremely hard…she just didn’t really have the talent, but hard work by everyone else’s standards meant she should’ve been in the group. Like my mind changed in terms of seeing actually bts of practice vs the real stage and thinking it may just be nerves but 🤷🏾♀️
Also I really really had a problem with the fact that there were NO dark skinned black girls picked to even train let alone debut in Pop Star Academy.
True😳😳😳 the black girls they did have favored eachother to some capacity.
Once the black community started consuming kpop more, companies will get black idols
No one ever talks about this. All the black girls invited looked like a veeeery specific type of mixed or light. It hurts that people see dark skin as ugly, hard, non feminine.
Omg right!!! I was thinking the same thing! I was really hoping to see more brown skin + darkskin trainees. It was certainly refreshing to still see some black girls but they were tan/ lightskin. I’ve noticed that recently darker skinned black women are less represented in media and often times displayed by people with lighter skin and it making me really sad :(
@chav. when dark-skinned bw are displayed in the music industry, it's always as loud, cringe-y, and brash. The only representation is, like, sexy red who isn't sexy at all, or nicki minaj, who is mean and loud and crass.
This video is so interesting, I’ve only heard other K-pop fans talk about katseye so far and they’re very critical. Like people thinking releasing the documentary after they formed the group was a bad marketing move, global K-pop groups are never gonna work, the west isn’t interested in groups anymore. Things like that, so it’s really interesting seeing someone outside of the K-pop community actually having a positive outlook on the group and the documentary. And technically that’s what matters, katseye is made for a global audience outside of kpop fans. I hope katseye becomes super successful, I’ve been missing girl groups like the spice girls, little mix and fifth harmony.
Yeah, I’m being honest. I think I probably did you a differently because I’m not a K-pop fan but overall, I do see potential in the group! It will be an uphill battle because like you said a lot of people in the westaren’t super interested in girl groups anymore. For pop group I think they have potential, gotta start somewhere🙌🏽
Kpop fans are competitive, salty and negative about everything! They already have their favs and see everything as hunger games. They mostly follow the industry for the fan wars and stats competition. It’s gross.
So I would not consider anything kpop stans say seriously. They are not the general music listener, they are stans who are too far gone to be objective
@@Lonadurn yeah keep generalising everybody, that’ll get you far in life 💀
@@xfreja kpop stans are very easy to generalize. I love a Kpop group so I know.
I say it in the spirit of hoping the culture changes. Seeing the massive hate trains stans organize against idols, especially recently proves how overtly toxic they are. General listeners aren’t as invested so they don’t care, but stans are usually toxic.
i think popstar academy will open the eyes for the western markets trying to make girl groups. It’s so sad because katseye has received the promo boys world never had. ):
I totally 2nd this!! I think it gives a blueprint to translate it to the western market. Also i was thinking the same thing. Boys world was a diverse girl group but just different get that funding and that push
@@CamrynSuzanne I think people got sick of girl groups and boybands because of simon cowell’s formula with shoving random people in a group instead of taking care of who works well better. (probs why 1d and little mix lasted long bc they were made by kelly rowland and Nicole & they took timing forming them)
@@oliviajaywardI think it's SO IMPORTANT to have girls that vibe with each other, otherwise the messy downfall happens rather fast because it puts the audience off.... It's kinda crazy to think that kpop group culture had started because of Western influence, yet girl groups and boy groups in the west became a throwaway project after a while....
I wishhh
@@oliviajayward in general western groups are not easy most of the time. Literally they all have history of shady stuff going on and eventually disbanded, some sooner than others. A lot of egos explode, look at Destiny's Child, Pussycat Dolls, Spice Girls, etc, to name big groups. In kpop camaraderie is very important and they actually develop a friendship and commitment through their years of training, it's always team work. Yes, there are some groups that had shady moments and disbanded, but it's very rare (normally it's more because of the label, not problems between members). You'll see them still being friends after years and years and that's what I like from that cuture, they genuinely care for each other, not just business.
I’m so happy you’re mentioning it, there were anti black micro aggressions layered throughout the entire documentary mainly towards Naisha and Manon, and it’s so funny to me how they didn’t gave any of the talented darker skinned black girls a chance that auditioned, but had a handful of average white/asian girls as a trainees and contestants.
Yess of course, i’m not seeing people really point it out and if anything ppl coming at me for mentioning it but these things shouldn’t go unchecked! And it is really messed up that there were literally NOOO dark skin black girls. Literally not one
sadly, the paper bag test strikes again. at least we have fatou in blackswan!! T.T hopefully more darkskin idols like her in the future
More dark skin? In thar case laras skin more darker than Manon, tbh they literally and openly supported Manon and definitely given extra privilege specifically for her anti black is just not acceptable they literally wanted manon
@@Arkv-o1n Lara is slightly darker, but she is still not the dark they mean, and she is not black she is Indian. I love Lara I’m very happy she made it, but I’m getting frustrated with this narrative that she is all that was needed for brown girls and no one can wish for more. Manon and Lara mean a lot to a lot of people in the representation department. And people can also be frustrated that there were no dark skin black girls. Because it’s definitely anti-blackness and colorism at play that they didn’t let any through.
You don’t have to be black to experience discrimination. Plus I don’t think what Manon experienced is anti black racism. She not black she mixed Mulatta Swiss-Italian mom and Ghanaian father. I promise it’s like the black ppl in the west are trying to put her into a mono-racial box when she is multiracial and multicultural. She’s not black 😂 she never addressed herself as so. If you say well she experienced discrimination then you are why racism is still alive. What you are saying is that any negative experience is associated with black people. Not just a bad experience or a misunderstanding.
The way kpop fans complain about global-groups saying "the k in kpop is disappearing" and whatnot annoys me so much. As someone who was deep into western groups Little Mix, One Direction, 5SOS, Fifth Harmony, Why Don't We and eventually having to see them all (except 5sos) disband, kpop really filled a void for me and did a lot more. So, seeing groups like Katseye and Vcha is so freaking exciting cuz it's a combination of the two that just feels so right, it's about time we bring groups back in the west too WITH some proper actual representation of different cultures!
I was so mad when Boys World disbanded...
But really tho!! Like another girl group bites the dust
I feel like many international kpop fans have been screaming to have diversity in kpop for a decade now so I already knew when they announced this search, “if there’s a black girl, this is it, they voting her into this group!” 🤣 I didn’t even need to see manon dance or sing, she was likely a shoo-in and the drama was bizarre bc if they know kpop they know “the visual” in the group tends to get special treatment or doesn’t have to be as talented bc they’re bringing the face (and usually end up the highest earners) I seen it in kpop since my childhood. It’s not fair but who said the music business was fair?
I’ve always wondered what a “western” group with the Kpop machine behind them would look & sound like so I’m intrigued to see how far Katseye can go! 👀
Thanks for this comment! I’m not even super familiar with kpop but it’s interesting seeing the visual discourse when to be kpop from the outside looking in seemed very focused on visuals! Stunning girl with the look and a black girl, like you said she was a shoo in. I appreciate people wanting things to change but why would it start now out of all times😭 i also think manon grew a lot as well. So i don’t love the portrayal of ppl acting like she was horrible likeee. But nevertheless they have a great line up of girls so I’m also excited to see what they do🙌🏽
@@CamrynSuzanne oh as a kpop fan I became HARSH on “the visual” i expect them to be the weakest link vocally or dance-wise 🔗some visuals didn’t even have passion for music or ambitions to become musicians, some were training in other things like acting, but ended up being asked to join a music group and did so hesitantly, Blackpink’s Jisoo and BTS’s Jin fall into that boat, and were both called out for their weak dancing in the early days - fortunately, they improved over time. Hopefully me saying that doesn’t offend blinks or armys, it’s not shade, it’s literally their origin stories. Not tryna get attacked though 🫣
@@nameisamine Jisoo never trained as an actress. She simply wanted to be one, thought she should audition for YG just to gain some audition experience, but ended up passing, so she went for it. She never actually got to train to be an actress, nor was she asked to change and join a music group instead. Just wanted to clarify that detail.
@@Pookasoul yeah I remember in the Blackpink documentary she said she was in a drama club and it was recommended she start auditioning for acting programs to gain experience. YG was her first audition and she said wasn’t even familiar with YG and their legacy in the music industry, but she passed the audition, so she stayed. It’s safe to say she didn’t grow up with a burning passion to sing, songwrite, compose, produce music, or dance. She just ended up sort of falling into it as a YG trainee.
@@nameisamine yes, exactly!! :) Though I guess that happens to many of us, regardless of what it is... we happen to try something, and happen to find a talent, or maybe a passion for it. I guess, that's okay too! 🙂 I also supposed they may have enjoyed her natural deep voice quite a lot, hence one of the reasons why she may have passed. They definitely saw potential, along with her beauty.
I think one thing that’s interesting to me is the complete erasure of how people were just as enamored with Lara’s beauty as they were with Manon. I mean she too was scouted by social media for her obvious it factor & once the scout saw she could sing & produce she was practically a shoo in, all she needed was to learn how to be a team player when singing backing vocals. Both Manon & Lara were praised for their beauty & it factor when they were first introduced to the public via those mission performances. I think it’s interesting how the documentary didn’t also showcase how Lara was also favorited for her beauty. I’m even more surprised the show dropped showing vocal lessons as often around episode 5 or 6?? where Lara specifically would’ve shined as well as Sophia and Adela..
Lara is gorgeous and I briefly remember in the doc presenting Lara with a lot of confidence and style and edge. I think some of the girls said something along the lines of like they were scared of her or like intimidated by her because she just had everything together and she was beautiful , as well as vocally gifted. So yeah, I don’t know why that was an oversight. I think the documentary also was careful to paint a certain picture so they may have leaned more into the Manon drama / comments to drive that story more
They also didn’t acknowledge how Manon was also loved for being black. It’s almost like they felt if Manon had “valid”reasons to be loved, or if the other girls were also shown to be loved for more “superficial” reasons it would make the specific focus on criticizing Manon for so long, a bit weird.
But in general I wish they hadn’t brushed over so many things that happened to the girls. Lara being loved for her beauty and the Indian representation on top of vocals (she’s the whole package), how Dani blew up in votes half way through because of her insane stage presence, Dani getting going through harassment for not being “Latina enough”. Yoonchae’s language barrier (honestly all of the foreign girls who didn’t speak English’s adapting) and how she adapted to Nayoung being eliminated.
Why they jumped to eliminate Nayoung when she was so loved.
How Megan made it in through the judge votes and how that totally needed to happen cause not having her would have sucked.
How great the positive reception to Sophia was despite Missy claiming she was worried about it (something I’m also sus about what about Sophia did she think the public wouldn’t like? With the other comments Missy made I’m very sus on this one).
How poor Marquise felt defeated because the public had already decided who they wanted, once again it was NOT just Manon who was considered a lock by fans (causing them to vote accordingly) it was a whole lineup fans said they wanted.
Samaras whole scandal. Like I need them to be so fr. It was not injuries that were the reason they didn’t pick her, it was the whole fanbase turning on her after she liked TikTok’s being racist to Indians and East Asian people etc.
Heck they didn’t even tell us how that affected Lara because they were very close before that. Having so much to say about Manons attitude, and kicking out Lexie (even if she wanted it), but having no comments on blatant racism is a choice.
We got so much little focus on half the group, and they definitely did not give the full events that went down back then. That’s one of the main reasons I don’t trust them.
You should watch a survival show from korea. it really helped me understand the difference in forming a group in asia vs the west. Their philosophy is definitely centered around finding puzzle piece instead of the most talented. It even goes deeper than what was shown in the katseye doc. My favorite survival show is boys planet
Okay thanks for the suggestion! I will check that out!!
I think the difference with the reception on Manon vs. Lexie's absence is bc Lexie has always been hard working from the start while Manon didn't take it seriously enough, and especially bc she was one of the girls who had less skills enough to always be at the bottom.
Also lexie even while injured still attended classes she was always at singing practice and would sit in a corner of the dance studio practicing the moves that didn’t require her to move her hips or stand up. And when she missed ten days is a roe she was doing it on purpose to get kicked out since they wouldn’t let her leave on her own. You’re right there’s a clear difference there
@@yegrauwu Exactly. She literally had hip surgery too. And even then she wasn't absent or slacking off. I mean it's not a competition who's more sick bc it's fucked up they're both expected to perform and show up with covid and having injuries but people are too 'understanding' when it comes to Manon and act like she's the victim in the whole situation. She was wanted so much that she was able to stay regardless of her building so many rules.
I talked about the Yoonchae “YC” thing on reddit and how it rubbed me the wrong way and I low key got flamed 😭 People were saying “oh it’s just cultural differences/nicknames are given to welcome people/they didn’t have malicious intentions” like yeah, but a microaggression is still a microaggression…? Like I bet Adela and Karlee weren’t immediately asked to go by a different name when they met the other girls, and nicknames are either given after knowing someone for enough time, or if the person themself asks to be called by a nickname.
Edit: Omg the full clip of Adela saying “its easier” when trying to get Yoonchae to go by “YC” I didn’t even remember that but that just proves how disrespectful that whole interaction was. And Karlee being Korean herself and participating and encouraging that… girl…
That’s CRAZYYY that people flamed you for that!! That was definitely off to me. It’s not to demonize adela and karlee bc i’m sure they didn’t mean harm by it. But it is so important to point things like that out to make people thing twice. Someone’s name should not be a work around for you. Respect it and learn it. That’s all! Her name isn’t even difficult to say & it if it was, still learn it! the “it’s easier” part was where I really gave the side eye
@@ryleek4213 im so glad this is being talked about more, as someone with a “hard to pronounce” name the amount of times i’ve corrected people and they tell me it’s not a big deal or try to call me something else is insanity. names are HUGEEE it’s such a big piece of our identification and it infuriated me that adela said “it’s easier” especially when you’re meeting a group of girls you’re about to spend a lot of time with like it’s such a slap in the face
Its so unfortunately common in america that ppl with ethnic names get nicknames. Ppl seem to not understand that just bc its normalized doesn’t mean its ok
I think there’s a social normalization around giving people nicknames or name pronunciations they didn’t want or ask for. I have a long name that people find hard to pronounce and I experienced bullying when I was younger where they would mispronounce my name on purpose to make fun of me. I do go by a nickname but only with friends I know respect me lol. It was for sure a microaggression that Yoonchae was immediately labelled as YC when other girls with names like Marquise (pronounced Mar-key) and Celeste (pronounced Ceh-les-tee) didn’t experience that. Even though it was likely unintentional, it’s so important to respect what people want to be called.
Not trying to push this issue but in K-pop using initials is a thing too, for example, JK, RM, DK so for Karlee I'm thinking that's why she didn't make a big deal about it. But adela's reasoning was not cool.
Love this video and Katseye's documentary. Western bands used to go through training programs like this back in the 90s, like the Spice Girls and Backstreet Boys. No idea why it stopped.
Omg thanks for watching! Yeah, when you put into perspective, a lot of groups were doing intensive training. And we even had shows like making the band that went through the process of dance rehearsals and vocal rehearsals. Maybe labels got tired of spending the money. I also think maybe labels that no matter how much a group had training the longevity and boy and girl groups just didn’t stand the test of time. So They gave up😭
@@CamrynSuzanne No problem! I think you're right. Labels got lazy and want artists to bring their own fanbase so they don't have to spend any money and can replace them quick!
I watched the K-pop documentaries from even the early 2000s and it was said that they actually got their training idea from the Motown era of how they were selecting groups in training groups and things of that nature. I think the thing that they added more so was the dancing and choreography.
I liked how you said that Daniela was your favorite dancer. She is actually a childhood friend of mine. We still follow each other on social media. Growing up, she has always been an amazing performer who is great at dance, but had potential with singing too. Since the very beginning, I knew that she was going to be a part of the group the same way she made it in the Top 10 on So You Think You Can Dance in 2016. I also know her Mom personally. She is a great dance instructor and I did have dance lessons with Daniela's Mom along with other kids when I was 9.
Oh I love to hear that!! I actually kind of remember seeing her on America’s got talent and so you think you can dance so I was always rooting for her. But yesss she’s such an eye catching dancer and she also has that star quality ✨✨✨
That’s interesting how you thought Emily just gives background dancer!! She didn’t stand out to me during the time of actual dream academy but after watching this documentary and the performances fully she really is like a young Britney and is super fun to watch
Funny, cause it was the opposite for me. Even though she wasn’t a great singer, she used every muscle in her body to deliver an amazing performance. She was always smiling and bubbly, I could tell she was the group’s happy pill. I wont deny she suits being a background dancer, but I was quite fond of her so it was still sad to see her be cut out from the lineup
34:00 i mean to be fair sophia said that she told manon about her being upset about her missing rehearsal
Touché, i think sophia (as a leader consistently) was more vocal than anyone which i can respect.
It can be argued that Sophia didn't tell her anything,if you go back to the conversation Manon has with the girls and listen how she starts the conversation maybe it'll help
idk why you’re all over this comment section when camryn bringing up very interesting and balanced points
As a black girl I understand black girls sticking up for Manon but guys there were times she skipped practice and she WASN’T sick. Maybe it was anxiety or fatigue but it’s a competition and for some of the girls this was their only chance at pursuing their dreams. Their feelings of resentment was valid. And besides it’s all sorted now the group is together and hopefully will thrive! ❤
The fans who wanted black representation in this group wouldn’t care if she was a supervillain, they were gonna make sure Manon made the group by hook or by crook! This was justice for Supearls, BP Rania etc. 😅
Yeah tbh I do get both sides though and maybe that wasn’t represented enough for folks but yeah we can protective of one another. It doesn’t mean there are no faults though so I get that
@@nameisamine LOL I agree that’s why I was so sad about Samara she did it all and was well liked by everyone but then the scandal happened 💔
@@tthettai what scandal? What happened?
@@tthettaihappened? She got exposed for being anti indian, being a zionist. Get some morals
iliya was so real for that like get your hands offa me!! 🤣
Yeah I was not mad at her for that💀💀
slavic girls are honest, loved that!
I was also worried that the documentary would cause a negative reaction towards the girls HOWEVER all the girls gained 200K+ followers, their single “Touch” is going viral it’s been charting on Spotify global and they’re getting attention from celebrities like USHER. They’re getting SO much attention and are now gonna promote in Asia 🎉 So I think the documentary was good overall and I REALLY enjoyed the T&D section because it was a gorgeous look intro the training idols go through
I’m glad that they’re growing! I think ppl forget that so much of this took place years ago so it doesn’t necessarily reflect how the girls feel about eachother now. As long as they keep their eyes on the prize, continue to hustle, they’ll be good🤞🏽
I think the situation with Manon missing practices was also a cultural difference because the way she described in her interview I don’t think she wasn’t taking it seriously. She was just under the impression that if you need a mental health day or you don’t feel good you can miss practice like she would at school. She even mentions that she realizes that fairly quickly. I just wish that she didn’t have to be the one to call a group meeting like all these girls were low-key talking shit behind her back and not one of them could just pull her to the side and be like this ain’t cool??? It seems like they’re all super close now though so I’m excited to see where the group goes!
Thank you so much for this. I actually saw a Reddit post of people talking about how Manon being from Switzerland, for example. The work culture in the work life balances as much different than other areas and parts of the world. And be honest with having a global group I think they could’ve taken more time and attention to setting the girls down and explaining each other’s cultures and learning about each other. I think this caused a lot of miscommunication and misunderstanding itself. Like I do understand where they’re coming from, but I also understand how Manon maybe felt. It really could’ve been facilitated better!
The issue with the manon situation is that the trainers or the overall executives clearly wanted her for the group and as a result gave her so much leeway when it should not have been so at all. This is why it rubbed the girls the wrong way.
No body else missed practices that much and was NOT cut from the program . She even started dkimg it when naisha was rhere wwhich was a long time before the survival show.
The executives also always hammered elimation over their heads that if they don't improve ,they would be removed from the program ( before the survival show happened) and they were harsher with some trainees like daniela for her dancing.
So to see her slack and still be in the program and then see her rank so high when she was not being a team player ,, it will be very aggravating.
And honestly that excuse of culture is a bit strange cause its a trainning program with different girls from different cultures and yet none slacked at all , just her multiple timess consistently.
I don't think its a cultural shift thing like she was very lackadaisical about it all. Lounging by the pool. Like i feel if you are in that environment and you are consious of the environment you are in , its easy to see that this is an environment that needs you to put in the work to improve. Its so obvious honestly .
I still blame the trainers for not checking her and teeling her to put in the work aggresively but prefencial trstement i guess cause they complained but clesrly they did not comppain enough to stick it in her head that you must work.
To me,She just did not take this seriously at all because she was insecure about her skills period. She even states this and when she actually did, she improved so much, you can even see it now.
Also its suprising to me how people are so understanding of manon's state of mind and cultural whatever but are not understanding of the others girls fustration with her , when its so clear how fustrating it is when someone is not being a team player consistently .
In my opinion, they were even mature about it and so was she.
Also sophia did talk to her about it nothing changed until the group meeting.
@@deborahameh7960 that part
@CamrynSuzanne I'm from a country with the same work life balance as Switzerland. Not showing up isn't okay without letting people know. Sure mind your health but don't waste other people's time since that may effect their health. Watched it all and it was clear she knew she had a secure spot and didn't felt like she had to do much work until she amd the other contestants had a chat -You don't just stay away when other people are counting on you and you are part of a team. She knows that.
@@kristinehansen4665 fair enough that's just what it looked and sounded like to me looking when it was discussed. I just think she wasn't ready for that level of training and the executives shouldn't have been so obvious with their favoritism. They should've gotten on her when it was starting to become an issue.
Just about to watch this video. My take on the situation is that none of the girls hated Manon and the internet blew things out of proportion. Naturally in a group, when someone is not doing their part, the others will feel frustration. They all handled it maturely with the guidance of Missy and the psychologist
I discuss that whole scenario in depth later on and I teeter along the middle line. I completely understand frustration of feeling like someone isn't carrying their weight. I'm just confused bc Manon was sick during some scenario's & other girls had missed. I think there was a mix of emotions with the Manon situation. I do think the editing did maybe want to portray the issue more dramatized
@@CamrynSuzanne The docu series did not actually show the real thing, it was just as what mitra said "Entertainment" but if you watched it the girls, not only Adela Lara, Sophia, Megan, Emily but also the mentors, are actually pointing out Manon's skipping classes and that was before she got sick. The hardship of learning two different version of choreos, one w/ Manon and one without her whilst under pressure and in a competition, is truly frustrating for the girls. I understand Manon tho coz she's not used to it and stuff, but the girls who were under the survival situation doing everything they can to debut, it's normal to feel that way IMO.
@@CamrynSuzannei just finished watching! i think the difference between Manon and the other girls missing practice is that Manon missed it way too often, to an extent where it impacted others.
from Manon’s interview in the doc, it sounded like she didn’t know the gravity of missing practice (and no one was telling her??) but she regretted not showing up. i think she got a warning from T&D and knew she had to turn it around to stay. she mentioned being sick and sore, but i also suspect that she was missing some days due to struggling with her mental health, the strict work environment, coming in later than the other girls, but also feeling like the girls turned against her. also i hate to say it, but it kind of sounded like Manon was missing practice whenever she wanted. they all lived together, so there are things we’ll never know about what was happening.
i also don’t blame the other girls for feeling the way they did bc they were in a high pressure environment. and i also don’t think the girls should be villainized for what they said to the psychologist because that was their time to vent their feelings and get professional support. (we also don’t get to see the full therapy session.) the truth pills of the industry are hard to swallow, but the side eyeing was not warranted.
as for Lexi missing 10 days in a row, i think all the girls knew she wanted to leave since they all lived together.
tldr: everyone & Manon’s feelings were valid. they were all under immense pressure. they’re all friends now
Honestly it did sound like Manon was missing much more practices than the other girls. We literally watched them practice with a gap for Manon. The training crew seemed frustrated with her. I think when you miss practices like that, people will think that you are a bit narcissistic even though it may not be true. In the end Manon worked hard to show up
Thank you some people blow it too far as if they were in the process and witnessing first hand 😂hahahha but now everyone love the show and the girls ❤❤❤
Ooof, I'm still hurting over Boys World. Those girls are so gifted! They deserved better! 😢
Agree😢😢
Ngl one observation I've spotted between kpop girl groups and western girl groups performance wise is that kpop girl groups will often do the SAME choreography, the SAME FORMATIONS, the SAME vocals for the SAME songs every time and Western girl groups will often do SOME choreography, improvisation vocals, moving around BUT also engage with the audience. I've noticed that kpop idols interact less with fans during performances (because they're ensuring that their performances are picture perfect) compared to Western artists, and I think that's potentially a risk for KATSEYE'S western popularity since the west LOVES authenticity and engagement. I love kpop too, but I think it's important to focus on some aspects that come with the popularity of Western artists and that's to interact with the audience like a good friend. just something I feel like could work better for KATSEYE, and I also think it will make them stand out to the Korean audience too, since this isn't common with kpop groups.
I also think KATSEYE should be given more glam looks. "Natural" makeup/styling is getting repetitive and boring (imo) so I honestly think that glam/crazy/runway/met gala type looks might be somewhat a "breath of fresh air" since it's not an everyday look to see. minimalism has been RINSED, being extra and maximalism could help them stand out more. I also think an R&B type direction (like Blaque's music, or Aaliyah's) will do wonders for their western fan growth, and Korea might still eat that up since R&B songs don't do too bad on Korean charts and kpop is just music heavily inspired by the west, sung with Korean lyrics lol (Crush has made songs that remind me of Chris Brown for example). This was long and ranty but i hope u get what i mean. 😭
I completely agree with it gives same every performance and I think that's why it's a little hard to market to Western audiences specifically American audiences. Like there's no unique Ness other than like aesthetic but it just doesn't give organic.
Ohh period! Coming with the constructive notes🙌🏽 i absolutely love the observation because as we know they want to appeal to the western market as well so they need to find that perfect blend and mix the two worlds. Because you want to connect with a multitude of fans globally vs catering to one market. I think how they develop and learn to kind of work both, they will truly solidify their success🤞🏽
Regarding the injuries from training -- the analogy I work with is athletics (youth athletics, feeder programs, etc.). Athletes train like hell and always are at risk of injury which can be career-ending. Dancing is a very physical/athletic discipline, and singing only less so, but still benefits from physical training.
Yeah, for sure and I actually grew up training and dance since I was three and I’ve trained very strenuously for over a decade. I was one of the lucky ones but I hardly ever got injured. I had a lot of knowledge and anatomy & teachers who really cared to make sure we were doing things properly. But I understand the injury sometimes just happened and it’s not necessarily because you were training horribly.
the thing that bothered me the most about the whole Manon situation is that she was obviously struggling mentally, and no one mentioned that because she was 'pretty' and didn't speak much. they even had the audacity to include the 'we care about mental health' segment but didn't hire a counselor to be available to them for the entire training process, not just for one episode. they allowed the girls to treat manon like a bitch when they could've just eliminated her like they did with naisha & lexie. they introduced the fan vote survival show then got upset when she didn't respond well to that. they knew people were moving from their home country to America for this opportunity, and mitra treated them like pawns in a game as if this is not a life altering experience that will follow them for the rest of their lives, not just entertainment. I was so glad when lexie spoke up and said exactly how I felt, I didn't finish the doc after she left for that exact reason. ik this stuff is unfair, but they lied repeatedly to make them think it was fair and talent based, then got upset when people didn't respond well to the change.
OOO also, manon mentioned that she didn't know she couldn't sit out some days. Manon was wrong from missing so much practice, yes, but you mean there were not explicit rules stated about how many practices they're allowed to miss before they get eliminated? Missing practices got lexie eliminated so CLEARLY there was something there?? they called manon arrogant, not a hard worker, and demeaned her character before just... eliminating her.
💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯..Thank You!
I agreee with you so much on the rulesss.
Like WHY were they not clear enough and WHY did different rules apply to different people.
The whole manon thing couod hav ebeen avoided if they had satvher down and told her to work harder or she would be eliminated. She would have worked harder cause she actually wanted this.
They GAVE her the leeway to slack off. She was missing so much practices, faced no reprecaussions , that's why she did not show up when she did not feel like it (as shitty as that sounds) then had the audacity to act shocked that the other girls felt annoyed by that.
They are the authority, they should have called her out on it and put her on the right track not let fustrations grow that high.
I agreee with you so much on the rulesss.
Like WHY were they not clear enough and WHY did different rules apply to different people.
The whole manon thing could have been avoided if they had sat her down and told her to work harder or she would be eliminated.
She would have worked harder cause she actually wanted this.
Like it took the girls who were alrady stressed to address something that the authorities should have.
They GAVE her the leeway to slack off. She was missing so much practices, faced no reprecaussions , that's why she did not show up when she did not feel like it (as shitty as that sounds) then had the audacity to act shocked that the other girls felt annoyed by that.
They are the authority, they should have called her out on it and put her on the right track. NOT let fustrations grow that high.
Ok sponsorship collect your coin Camryn
You see mee☺️☺️☺️
38:36 I truly feel this statement in my HEART!❤
Especially the shyness for cockiness.
It's so unfortunate that I've heard a lot of black girls say that they've been prejudged or looked at different for being quiet. It's as if it's misinterpreted so I feel you!!
Nayoung recently won 1st place in a vocal girl group competition called girls on fire and she’s supposed to debut soon. And I feel like if lexie got in they need another short girly like emily to even out the group.
Oh perioddd!!
Finally a vid abt Katseye that isn't glass half empty but half full :)
🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
Mitra gave me Simpn Cowell vibes LOL. I loved Sohey and the rest of the dance teachers and vocal teachers. Missy was fine but she definitely was keeping secrets and it makes me think the girls might think of her differently after watching the show. I enjoyed the show but I wished they focused more on Katseye members tbh. Also should of done an after the show and maybe a small segment of the trainees that left updating fans what they are going to do next
I agree with the simon cowell comparison 😭 she definitely gave that vibe. I guess with these shows you always need a simon cowell personality. Also i like the idea of them following up with the other trainees! They definitely should have did that
Mitra was a demon. She viewed those girls as products. That elimination was so evil and she was trying to make lexie so upset when “kicking her out” even though lexie left on her own.
Its so funny because not even watching the show and watching the music video touch song, Munon was the first girl my eyes auto gravitated too. Shes gorgeous and it cant be helped. Pretty privilege does indeed exist.
The ages of the contestants in the kpop survival programs always blew my mind. I watched Universe Ticket and one of the girls that got chosen for the group was 12 yrs old. Literally born in the 2010s decade. Crazy
OMG 12 is way too young!!
YESSSS!!! Katseye is going to be a force lowkey!
I agree🙈 i have been watching their performances, reels, and music videos, and they definitely have something special
About “the creators of bts” while they did put the group together, BTS is not as successful as they are today because of the company. The company was small and bankrupt when bts debuted, yet bts is now one of the biggest groups in history (which is super rare for a small company to be successful in kpop). Due to being from a small company the group was actually mistreated by everyone in SK basically. BTS is famous because of their talents, they are a self produced group and thats why they’re so unique. They didn’t have the privilege of other successful K-pop groups like BLACKPINK, which as soon as they debuted, they were famous and successful due to being from a well known rich company. They have built everything from scratch basically, contrary to popular belief from those who don’t know BTS. So the company didn’t turn them into a global sensation, their music/talents did. That’s why no other kpop group is as loved and successful as Bts is
Ok
Loved this video sooo much and I also think that the way K-pop albums are packaged should be how all albums are packed like watch a K-pop album unboxing and u would be amazed
Thank you!! No seriously I learned so much researching into all of this. They really leave no stone unturned
As a pretty long-time kpop fan i wanted to note that this is a problem a lot of people have pointed out with survival shows- you pit a bunch of teenagers against each other and make them fight tooth and nail, and then those people who have previously been fighting each other now are supposed to work together and be a tightly bonded group. It just doesn't make sense.
The only issue I had with the Manon thing was how hypocritical a lot of it felt. Like not just Lexie but they mentioned how other girls missed lots of practice too which I believe because there were girls on the rankings that we never even saw on screen. But Manon got all the flack. And before they were saying it wasn’t fair because they worked hard and she didn’t…which is a fair claim, but when it was time to pick who you don’t want to debut and you see as a dream team, all of a sudden it was “well we can’t pick friends and it’s not just about hard work…a group is different” like ?
And I 100% saw both sides because I danced professional for almost a decade and I’ve dipped my toe into the industry (and I have a degree in it woohoo) so I see how media, fans, marketing and promoting does it role. I see the girls pov bcuz I’ve worked with a Manon a LOT. Barely shows up but gets all the jazz. But this isn’t a homework assignment. Emily was an amazing dancer on the show and I actually liked Adela. But that was while watching the documentary. Neither of them stood out during their performances we saw when voting. In terms of dance talent alone, Emily deserved to debut. In terms of leadership and work ethic, Adela deserved to debut. Fans literally hated Emily from the moment she opened her mouth, and same with Adela. Do you really think if they debuted, people would’ve supported the group. Absolutely not. They never liked them from the jump, and fan engagement is important. If the people don’t want them, they’re not gonna care about the group or they’re gonna bully them out of the group if they debuted.
Also the Manon thing I just thought was odd how even fans say like well it’s dumb that people only vote for her for black representation as if…everyone doesn’t do that. Now Sophia and Samara were talented yes, but being from Brazil, the Philippines and Indonesia in kpop is like being an angel descending from heaven because those countries will ALWAYS rep their people. They have the biggest kpop fanbases, which is what primarily watched the show. Sophia said it herself she had the Philippines. The only reason Samara didn’t debut was because of that racist stuff she was supporting online and fans stopped voting for her. A lot of people have country and nationality support. That’s not odd, and again, they had a right to be upset but we only saw…the three missions or whatever.
And just like kpop shows, it’s not 100% fans. Manon was always gonna debut. They found her on social media, with barely any videos about music, sent a private trainer to Switzerland for HER and then allowed accommodations and never kicked her out. Even when everyone felt so strongly. Like they said she had that IT factor. Personally I thought Manon was very boring to watch. She could sing and dance well but idk if it was her facials or what but she didn’t have that POZAZZ. But I could see her debuting bcuz she did fit that visual role, which in MOST shows and ALL kpop companies say they will always pick a visual over actual talent. At least one. It’s always been rigged and this being in America didn’t change that. Just how everybody hated wonyoung and thought she only got stuff because she was cute, I feel like that’s the same for Manon. WY was very basic in talents but had that it girl factor and now look at her, actually getting better and being the next IT girl in Korea
To think I auditioned for this program 💕💕
😮
the reason why kpop groups are so big in comparison to western ones is simply due to how companies manage the fanservice. content gets pushed out so much that you can really connect to these groups meanwhile youre lucky to even get a vlog from artists in the west. i feel like i could list so many things i know about kpop idols but if you ask me about western artists i hardly know them outside of their music😭
this connection/entertainment constantly put out gives fans something to talk about on the daily, throw in the amount of merch, photocards, lightsticks and just member chemistry and you have a cult fanbase😭
of course the music is what starts a groups success but youre not gonna keep as many fans if youre boring or never putting videos out
But katseye definitely making fan event, live everything like kpop h
I’ve seen a lot of these reaction or analysis videos for Pop Star Academy; and I think I’ve enjoyed your insight and take the most! Your viewpoints were for the most part very unbiased and fair across the board for all the girls. I just wanted to applaud you when you mentioned everyone being on different playing fields and levels of disadvantages. Great work!
Awesome! Thank you so much 🙌🏽🙌🏽 I appreciate you seeing my efforts
Unbiased lmaoo😂😂😂. There's nothing wrong with with baised at times though but she definitely was not to me.
@@deborahameh7960 ok
I love Katseye
I've seen some of your videos and respected your talking points and perspective. I typed "katseye reaction" and clicked on someone's video when I suddenly saw this one from you and...I clicked REAAAAAL quick
I was like "no way she's making a video on them"
Thank you
Ahh thank you!! Yeah I wanted to switch it up and discuss something different
OOOooh I didn't know you knew about KATSEYE. I can't wait to hear your thoughts!!!
Yes! I had heard about them in passing before but the documentary really tapped me into the group. I'm definitely a fan now
@@CamrynSuzanne I can't wait to see their future and more western girl groups! I also agree with your point on T&D, the western market needs more artist development!
This project seems really promising, i'm curious to see how their promotions will go because i think the kpop system is really good and it's showing that it creates groups that have that thing that a group needs, i also hope is serves as like a cross-promotion because besides the training system being great, i think kpop girlies have been putting out great pop songs but it only really reaches the western audiences when they purposefully cater to that audience
Yeah i agree! This project has so much potential and I think if they market them the right way, they will take off like a rocket!
Babe wake up, Camryn just posted 🙏
🙋🏾♀
I’ve been dying to hear your thoughts!
Glad I made the vid!! You guys got a long one today too
In the uk, most of the big singers, actresses and etc have gone to brit school which has helped them along the way
Is brit school a type of pop training as well? I don't think I've heard of it n depth before
@@CamrynSuzanne yes like vocational training and education too in all sorts of backgrounds in the arts industry. apparently it’s really hard to get into as well too 😭
@@CamrynSuzanneit’s a performing arts school! adele, raye and i think amy winehouse went there
@@CamrynSuzanneLeona Lewis, Jessie J, Adele, Raye, Amy Winehouse, FKA Twigs, Cat Burns, Ella Eyre, Imogen Heap, Marsha Ambrosious, Freya Ridings, Rachel Chinouriri, Tom Holland & more all went to The BRIT School. It is possible to walk out of that school with a deal, Adele certainly did.
The school actually gets funding from the British record industry. And you’ll always see students at the BRITs (U.K. equivalent of Grammys) some proceeds from the awards gets donated back to the school. It’s a good system but some critics say it creates an unfair advantage.
@@justonejoon3082ohhh!!!! Okay I know what it is now!!!
omg i agree with how the higher ups were weird as hell to naisha and how they found any ass excuse to kick her out. i felt so bad
Love the outside perspective, as someone who has been here from the start I love your points!
I appreciate that!🤞🏽🩷
14:17 part of the reason was that they were also scouting girls through social media who had no prior experience
Yeah! They did that for people like Manon and im sure a couple other girls. They were looking for ‘the look’
yeah that “aggressive” comment made my ears perk up like?? that’s a dog whistle term
Right like we gotta wake that up! I side eyed her immediately
@@pidginenglish same when I heard that I never watched another episode icl
@@lizzy4868 and the way she was eliminated was suspicious as well like idk what it was even tho she may have been guilty it just seemed excessive
i wish they had showed the girls bonding more after the manon conversation, they left alot of viewers thinking that the girls are just putting on a professional smile and that they dont like each other
Honestly Vcha and Katseye really are so special for me and I genuinely don't know why. Maybe it's personality or talent or things you mentioned in the video like it factor but I'm just drawn to them and I really hope they continue to have more success
Yess! katseye has this presence and allure to them and I’m excited to see their growth!
it was also a bit of cultural difference with manon missing practice, she's from switzerland and countries from that side of europe give paid vacations and there isnt a culture of working through sickness (like sophia was doing and asking of manon for instance). in manon's world it makes sense to not show up if youre feeling sore (and we know she wasnt a dancer so her body wasnt used to this)🤷♀
Yes! I saw a Reddit thread talking about the discourse and someone mentioned that culturally Switzerland is much different in their work life balance. And that’s a whole can of worms, I didn’t even think of. You have all of these girls coming together from across the globe with different cultures, different ways of life, different perspectives. That’s where I wish. There was more group conversation that went a little bit deeper prior to any of these issues even happening.
i felt like nayoung was unfairly eliminated!! they posted footage of the judges' thoughts after each mission before the eliminations and it was brought up that in a therapy session (!!!) she said she felt a bit guilty about taking another girl's spot for the group, this is why she got eliminated :/ she was always high in the votes and was one of the strongest singers, i thought she danced well too
it was mitra iirc who took it as a "well she doesnt wanna be in the group/show" but right after this one she joined (and won) another survival show (girls on fire)
and imo whatever's said in therapy sessions should be in privacy and confidentiality, it shouldnt have been used against her in the show like that
Oh, that’s crazy🤨 they really did frame it like she wanted to be a soloist or something. I agree with you if they’re going to get a therapist for the girls and help them through their mental journey with all of this, that should not be used against them at all
As a kpop stan that felt like any other survival show, all these elements are something that we’ve seen a million of times for decades atp, so nothing there that really shocked me. Even in the documentary, people roasted Bang PD for his comments as if we all weren’t aware of the fact that vocals aren’t that important to Hybe you literally talked about Lesserafim. I really like the final line up, chefs kiss. I’m not sold on the global impact they gonna have outside of the kpop field but I wish them the best
I’m not into the K-pop world, but I’ve gathered enough to understand that the visuals are extremely important. So seeing a lot of of the discourse about vocals taking a backseat and visuals being a forefront was kind of confusing to me. Because I didn’t know that it was still polarizing in the K-pop universe.
@@CamrynSuzanne oh it’s a polarizing debate to have people being on each other throats for years about it. Especially since the vocal standards have declined over the years, to be fair the bar seems to be in hell for some groups out there. You use to have idols capable of doing backflips landing and still hitting the note. But as you have mentioned nothing that autotune can’t fix and it’s way more important to these companies to have a cohesive picture so the newer generations focus more on having exceptional dancers.
@@HopeeInk as a multilingual music Stan, I can assure you, we've had similar shows like this in the west before kpop survival shows. Please give them a watch! Pop stars, making the band and Girlicious are FUN to watch!
I have no words 😊 just happy to hear your thoughts and perspective on the group! ❤
Oh, that makes me so happy that I made this video!!
Manon and Lexie's situation isn't really comparable because Lexie had already decided to quit the program, she just couldn't leave until the label released her from her contract, which they dragged on for a bit because, as you observed, they were kinda pushing her to be in the group. They mentioned "missed rehearsals" because they wanted to throw the blame onto her and divert the focus of them creating an environment that made her want to quit the program
Okay! Understood. That makes more sense bc i was kinda confused. Was that discussed on the doc or just info people got after the fact?
@@CamrynSuzannethey discussed it on the doc!! Lexie expressed wanting to leave in an interview (you can see it on her face when she picked up her envelope after mission 2 as well…if looks could KILL lmao) and then stopped attending practice when they wouldn’t release her from her contract. Mitra tried to pull a “you can’t quit because I’m firing you!” on her which is why it may have been confusing.
@@roguecodes gotchuuu! Yeah I was confused a bit by that but I see what you’re saying. Another reason why Mitra is odd to me
@@CamrynSuzanne girl I was trying to understand her businesswoman vibe but that was so lame to me like 😭 why are you trying to pretend you’ve got the upper hand on a teenager plz
I think both Manon and the other girls should be given a lot more grace in regards to the portrayal of the conflict between them. I don't think Manon fully understood what she was signing up for because she thought of it more as like going to school and was coming at the process differently then the girls that were there and had it drilled in them to take this seriously for a year. Plus she was breaking rules and even if she had her reasons for wanting to live with her aunt instead of the rest of the girls, I doubt she told the girls themselves, but also I doubt the girls inquired, resulting in an even more strained relationship between both parties that probably wouldn't have been as big of a deal if they all talked to each other(that's just speculating).
When the company switched up to being a survival show, I think a lot of the frustration about that was misguided to Manon and I think the people in charge were probably also stoking that flame to create "drama" for tv. That being said, I think how the girls felt in that moment were valid and something that should have been talked about with a therapist to help them process those feelings and refocus to continue with the program. That should have been a safe space for them to talk about her, but It's unfortunate that the therapy sessions were being recorded. I also wouldn't be surprised if the company was stoking the fires of conflict and directing them to talk specifically about Manon during the interviews too and in their frustration they said what they said. If the company really cared (which I don't think they did lol), they wouldn't have recorded that group therapy session, but they did for the sake of "drama"
It seems like the issues from the show have been resolved, and it sucks that fans are now sending hate to any of the girls.
You should listen to their EP it’s cute, the lyrics could be better but it’s a good solid start.
I did!! It was a cute vibe. It definitely could be better but I think the cool thing with the EP is they can test out a couple sounds and then for their album, they can be more grounded in that
It just feels like a black girl is getting SOME sort of privilege and suddenly it’s the worst thing in the world…
Diversity card
yuppp this.
Really nice summary! I feel with the Manon issue there may be stuff we didn't see. But they seem good together now!
i remember when i was seeing katseye on my feed dancing to ‘touch’ not knowing who they were at the time but after watching the documentary i have truly fallen in love with this group. i can’t wait to see what these can do in the future!!
I’m literally hooked too😭 i also didn’t really know who they were like that either so it was a treat watching the doc
I love all of the girls equally but watching the docu, I found it hilarious that they went on and on about fairness in relation to Manon when two (three? I don't remember) of the girls who made it into the group were either on TV themselves before or had famous parents. How is it fair for a girl like Naisha, who had to teach herself how to dance all by herself, to go against girls who got professional training since they could walk?
This is what I was trying to get at! I get the rehearsal issues and them frustrated about her not showing up. A lot of them emphasized her being pretty as an advantage when truth be told, a lot of girls had different levels of advantages. Mind you a lot of the girls picked were very pretty too so there are always levels
💯💯💯
Not to mention Iliya who was a literal refugee and the breadwinner for her family.
I love your video! It’s so well edited and you speak so eloquently 😊 Anyway, I love LOVE the Katseye girlies and they have a very bright future as long as they stay away from social media and are super careful about what they post online cause kpop stans are crazzzzzzy and will make a mountain out of an anthill
Awee thank you so much 🥹🥹 I’ve grown to really like Katseye as I’ve discovered them. I’ve been watching the rehearsal videos , performances, music videos, and I think they all have something special. I do like how Manon and Lara post that little TikTok basically letting everyone know that they’re fine and trying to squash it.
I watched Dream Academy and actually voted during that whole show. During, we didn’t get the background stuff that was in this doc like you usually do with survival shows. I think it was as not to sway voting to certain members which often happens on korean shows due to empathy for how hard they worked and their progress not being fully up to others girls levels. (Some people say thats a big reason the 12th member was added to IZ*ONE cause the original concept had only 11 spots) They were clearly trying to focus everyones attention on the actual performances cause I literally had no clue who Naisha was until Pop Academy and Lexie’s exit was a HUGE mystery for a long time. But it was ALWAYS clear that with Manon it was “oh there’s a pretty girl in the house let’s hate on her.” So they were extra tight when she made it through that korea elimination. That Geffen head was going to D*E for Manon to be in the final group. She was even one of the concept image girls. Sawry she was always the girl. But I have to mention Missy rubbed me the wrong way the whole time. A lil too much attitude for me.
Thanks for adding context with someone who watched dream Academy live! It seems like maybe the lineup would’ve been different. Had they have added more context. But sometimes you have to judge on what you see in front of you getting all the fluff in the extras and behind the scenes. Also, I noticed in like the uniform sketches they seem to have an idea of what they wanted the group to look like. So you’re definitely not wrong there
Popstar schools being normalized in the West would be perfectttt
I really think it could be a part of the answer we’ve been looking for!!
I honestly hope they do more like this
Like A2K or dance moms but with singing and dance like POP stars
@@CamrynSuzannedefinitely cus I thought about this before and I hope someone in the US sees this documentary and makes maybe a pop star school that shows how they got their trainees thru auditions or just randomly finding girls and training them and putting them into groups
That's a real easy way to get kids abused but ok
In K-pop a lot of KIDS start training at even 9 years old, the youngest age being 14 seems like a step up to that ://
Ohh boyyy 😳🤦🏾♀️
1 hour for Katseye WE ARE SEATED. GOT MY POPCORN MY PILLOW MY BLANKET. LRTSS GOOOO
Hopeee you enjoyyy😊😊😊
Loveeee that ur also talking abt this side of the music industry
I'm so glad I could discuss this! It definitely gave me an insight into this other side of the music industry
I really like your video and analysis. My favorite part is the training process too. I watch kpop survival shows just for the training process I dont even watch the last episodes cz like I dont realy care much like I have favorite trainees and all but it’s not a big deal to me you know. The training process and how the trainees develop their skills and how the judges/trainers develop them I love it!!!
@@moinomin9882 thank you!! I notice through the comments and discourse it seems to be kind of controversial but I don’t think the training is bad at all when facilitated properly . I enjoyed seeing the bts of that part
Reason the americans got no support was because it was a kpop fanbase from America. They;re very biased towards koreans. For example in Blackswan (kpop group with no koreans) they get the most hate from Americans. Wild. They need to fix up
Ohh really?
@@CamrynSuzannei would say the americans got no support because a number of girls were from america so american fans had a lot to choose from and at that point would choose based on skill level as opposed to other countries which had only one trainee from that country so they would all vote for her, like in the case of sophia
@@CamrynSuzanne yup, funny how the diverse place are the real racists
I knew you would be interested in this documentary and group, everything about it is right up your alley! Excited to get into this video and your thoughts! 😁
I really hope you like the video!! When i saw this on netflix i tuned in IMMEDIATELY
@@CamrynSuzanne Loved the video, I think we had a very similar view on everything!
I think the physical appearance aesthetic of tall Slim thin slightly pubescent is interesting I noticed there are no thick or chubby women of color Etc just an observation not that it matters i guess but who are they marketing to? Gives pussycat doll vibes
I have to admit that something that I didn’t really notice and I had an oversight of it, but It’s good that you notices and mentioned it because that is something that should change. We can talk about diversity and body type can definitely fall into that
@@CamrynSuzanne when a kpop company is involved, looks are gonna be considered a lot. this is why the term "idols" is used a lot in kpop contexts. they want the group to be as unattainable and idealized aesthetically as they are talent wise. you rarely see girlgroups with members that don't fit the beauty standards in the system. although i think katseye is a step up from a group like VCHA (jyp) when it comes to deviating from colorism and the korean beauty standards, they still conform when it comes to weight and dieting.
I hope, these young women dont get through the "Pussycat Girls" treatment!
🙅🏾♀️
I mean pcd were under interescope who is owned by geffenb
Little mix legit sold out stadiums like they are the 2nd best selling girl group of all time
Nice!!! I love this kind of discussion smooth and not boring😁
omg 48:53 not that photoshoot… 😭 I remember it was their first big photoshoot as a group and it made my jaw drop in horror bc its so crazy how they made Manon/Daniela/Yoonchae look like Disney Channel mean girls, and made Sophia/Lara/Megan look like the nerdy characters trying to dress nice and then get bullied by the mean girls for having an ugly ass outfit 💀
Ooo😭😭 yeah those fits weren’t it.
I agree the industry is not fair, and I can see both sides of how the girls felt and how Manon felt. How it was a cultural difference on Manons part, and how to the girls it looked like she wasn’t trying, or didn’t care. Why both sides felt hurt etc.
I just find it very telling, everyone’s reactions (mostly fans). As we’ve said, the industry is not fair, so why is it that when it’s a black girl getting the “favoritism” we’ve seen a million times over, THATS when everyone thinks something needs to be done about it. This is the time when people make extremely harsh (somewhat micro-aggressive) comments about her character. When a black girl gets the “privilege” often afforded to others, that’s when it’s not ok and gets people this hot.
Also the fact that everyone and they mama was talking about how representation mattered, but many are just ignoring the people who voted for Manon not just because of beauty, but because she was black and that means something to them. Like I was there I will not be gaslit just cause the documentary smoothed over it, there is no way back then anyone saw the praise she was getting and did not also see people cheering her on for being black. So I also ask, why is representation for everyone else an added bonus but ignored when it’s black representation?
She also wasn’t the only one loved for her looks, but it’s not that deep I don’t want any of the other girls getting rude comments too. The problem for me is things only being a problem when it’s Manon, when it’s the black girl who gets the center treatment.
Like ppl can tell me none of it stems from anti-blackness till they are blue in the face; I will not be played for a fool. Especially when very weird comments were made by Missy herself, and when a lot of people are giving Manon thinly veiled racism to this day.
Like I’m cool with the girls, I know they were having a hard time, and though I don’t fully agree with their reactions I understand how everyone got there. It’s a lot of the viewer reactions I don’t trust.
You get it😅😅😅 there is a lot of nuance here that you explained that people don’t want to hear.
@@CamrynSuzanne 🤝🤝🤝
Living for the long upload 🙌🏽
Been debating if I should do longer uploads! So i'm glad you're excited
Firstly, I think people forget that the earliest sight the western market has seen a training process this rigorous was Making The Band 3 & 4. Mainly MTB3(Danity Kane’s season) and the show Popstars(US & UK). if you look at old clips of MTB3 and look at how DK was/is structured, those girls were an American/multinational kpop group at heart. From the dance rehearsals, the vocal training and the ‘drama’ Danity Kane(and many groups like Girls Aloud/Girlicious etc.) saw similar results as a KATSEYE or a VCHA.
I think Dream Academy brings that same scope of curiosity to viewers of this generation like it did for me and those shows I mentioned previously. I will say though, I seen both sides of the ‘Manon issue’. its frustrating working hard, showing up and not knowing if rehearsals gonna start on time or if formations are changing because a member’s missing but on the flip side(with todays focus on mental health)I understand not feeling comfortable in your skill set and that pressure taking a toll on you. I also understand culturally, different countries handle scenarios in unique ways. I don’t like how it played personally but they were both human reactions and they are(somewhat)valid.
Also I think a lot of people are forgetting the nationality and race that played into Manon’s success you had only two black girls on that show and only one of them showed extreme pride in there African heritage (Manon is half Ghanaian) she became the main representation for black people watching the show and the show made her beauty a standout point which is rare for black features (which yes colorism plays a huge role and this show is not fighting against that by any means) but this made black people (I am one of those black people) push extremely hard and I’m going to be honest even if manon was the least attractive in the group her fanbase was still going to be big loyal and loud.
actually Samara was often in voting higher than Manon but before the finale people digged up some things on her and people didn't vote for her as much anymore. I think it was something about making fun of indians. tbh, i havent noticed Manon showing any extreme pride in her heritage, on contrary to me she was/is very european, what you mean by that?
@@missyasmr3476 Samara votes came from mostly Brazilian and Latina votes and the that whole entire scandal happened a decent time before the finale and it turned into a manon versus Samara fanbase thing. Manon has constantly boasted her Ghanaian heritage she talks about being the first black girl to debut under hybe talks about how important her waist beads are to her and literally teaches the other members about them and why they are so important in there first ever live. There’s a post on her account where’s she is dressed in traditional African attire during the survival show she showed a picture of her younger self in traditional African attire and most recently she had a very high fashion photo shoot in a black hair store. And then we have her constantly embracing her braids. Her blackness has became a huge part of her identity and marketing.
@@jadonrowe273 We are talking its effect on voting in dream academy so not recent posts/interviews but everything that she showed during the votings. I'm asking because i remember on contrary black people talking about her being "too European" and questioning her especially on twitter and it was like in late october she talked about Ghana and her father in interview when people were like "finally the crumbs". That's actually why i'm asking about that because during votings we could barely see anything, her IG was also different. Obviously she's talking about her roots now but not so much during the DA.
@@missyasmr3476 her ig always had the post in her traditional attire and during the running the show she brought up that she was half Ghanaian in the live streams to also we’ve seen her wear her waist beads constantly during the show so I don’t know she feels likes she always been aware that she is black and it’s quite obvious she grabbed a strong following from black people
Let's send Ice Spice to this academy, I beg!
🙏🏾
Edit: I agree with you, Manon has "it"!
I dunno if that would save her😭😭
@@CamrynSuzanne Oop 🤭
😂
I am just dying to hear more of Manon singing. I've only heard her sing a little bit, in a specific range. Can she sing live well enough? I know she's very pretty, but.....talented???
The whole timing of this doc just all felt off to me. Firstly expecting so much from such young girls in only two years it just made it so hard to watch knowing how many of these girls essentially wasted a year of their lives with little to nothing to go back to Naisha especially and Himari also, she was only 14 but was put at such a high standard while being put so late into the programme. I didnt realise how little fans got of the girls at the time, it makes so much sense why the people who were chosen but it feels weird to my they would relase the documentary so late after their debut cause all its done is bring hate to the girls who have already been choesen. I feel like if the survival show was more of a love island situation and we say the episodes of the doc as it was happening people like Manon or even Lara would not have made it in whether they deserved to or not
Love hearing your thoughts on this, and I agree that we need more proper training for new artists, thank you for making great content Camryn!!!
Thank you!! Yeah I was quite intrigued by the training aspects of it all and I did see a lot of benefit with the training system (when done right!)
I’m just so happy I’m not the only one who thought she gave background dancer. Like not even trying to be mean she just gave that vibe to me
Yeah it’s definitely not a diss , she’s a great dancer! It just didn’t give pop star!
@@CamrynSuzanneI think in the doc she talked about grappling with that with her mentors. She said her training in dance was usually to be in the back of a music video and stuff like that and not be the artist
Its why we didnt vote for her😭
Its true, during the voting process i never voted for Emily cause i thought she didnt fit, also i was someone who was begging all over social media to give us more backround content and behind the scenes cause it was soooo hard to vote when we barely got ANYTHING. I voted for my favs only, and watching the doc i was so shook at how amazing emily is!! She became a fav for me, so it just sucks. They shoukdve given us MUCH more than they did dueing those weeks of voting. It was so upsetting and so many of us OG fans were very upset
Especially! Them singing 34+35 ... That song is SUPER just baaaaad for young girls. Same with buttons! 🤦🏾♀️
Excellent video! Love the editing!
Thanks so much!❤️
love your coverageeee
Thank youu🙌🏽🙌🏽
I used to love watching kpop survival shows but I checked out after it completely shattered my illusion that the kpop trainee system was a meritocracy and only the most skilled trainees succeed . Boy was I wrong 😑 some idols were mediocre vocally and dance-wise, but skated through on visuals while more talented trainees were sent packing. I saw some performance clips from the academy. Let’s just say, I was unimpressed by the vocals. But I’ll give Katseye a chance.
Yeah, to be fair I don’t think there was a lot of super strong vocal talent with this bunch, but I haven’t watched any other survival shows so I can’t say usually how they go. Even some of the girls that were considered amazing singers, some of them were OK to me
I wish I could fine the original comment. But someone said these are the best ones, in a certain body type. It’s already hard but they just made it harder. Especially in K-pop it’s not hard to find stories about people losing or almost losing their dreams because they didn’t fit that unrealistic standard.