Ogre Battle 64: Person of Lordly Caliber - Every Nintendo 64 RPG Part 4 - Casp
Вставка
- Опубліковано 1 жов 2017
- It's the last one. We've come such a long way, and it's finally at an end. I've never wanted death more.
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen video:
• Ogre Battle: The March...
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Sources:
web.archive.org/web/200007110...
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Games featured in this video in order of appearance:
Ogre Battle 64: Person of Lordly Caliber (N64)
Ogre Battle: The March of the Black Queen (SNES)
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Music used in this video in order of appearance:
Overture - Ogre Battle 64 OST
Accretion Disk - Ogre Battle 64 OST
The Lingering Imagery - Ogre Battle 64 OST
Premonition - Ogre Battle 64 OST
The Sensational World - Ogre Battle 64 OST
Rrrowf - Ogre Battle 64 OST
Winter Morning - Ogre Battle 64 OST
Notice of Death - Ogre Battle 64 OST
Theme of the Priest - Ogre Battle 64 OST
Decisive - Ogre Battle 64 OST
Far Away - Ogre Battle 64 OST
After Words - Ogre Battle 64 OST
(I have no idea what the real names of the songs are, but this is what they're listed as, and they're all magical.)
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More of my videos -
Breath of Fire 6 sucks:
• Breath of Fire 6 Sucks...
Examining Interviews with Suikoden Creator Yoshitaka Murayama:
• Video
Secret of Mana Critique:
• Video
All works used are for educational, review, or analytical purposes, and are protected under the FAIR USE act.
#OgreBattle
#N64RPGs
#TacticsOgre - Ігри
I wish they still made games like this. Played it 5 times getting all the characters.
Yeah, it's a shame we never got any more. The series has so much potential, it's just a shame it died with the Nintendo 64.
Look up unicorn overlord. Coming out next year and made by both atlus and vanillaware.
I think it is far too harsh to say that someone who enjoys Ogre Battle on the SNES should "not even bother" with Ogre Battle 64, which is still one of my favorite entries in the series. The overall story does fall apart midway through the 4th chapter, but the individual characters and detailed interactions between them make for a rich and developed tale. The gameplay itself focuses upon micromanagement of units (stamina meters on the world map and in-battle to ensure nobody dies) as opposed to micromanagement (reputation meters and tarot cards). I think OB64's changes surely make the game different, but do not automatically make it "worse" than the original.
I didn't say it made it automatically worse. I think I laid out why in a fairly in-depth manner. I wanted a game to top March of the Black Queen, and I assumed it would just by virtue of it existing.
As for the micro-management in 64, it is definitely worse. Stamina meters just suck. They slow shit down, they're intrusive, I can't stand them. What made them slightly better in OB64, but what I'd say also hindered the 'micro management' was that the process of stamina and camping and whatnot was entirely automated. Sure, items are a thing, but I used maybe 2 items the entire game, and that was solely to net myself a cheap boss kill.
It saved my arse walking back 20 minutes to a town, paying a shit-tonne for healing, and then returning, waiting another 17 camp cycles to reach the boss and ruin his bum.
Gotta say, and I think I addressed this in the video, but I do love the perma-death element. March was just *throw wall of low-ALI guys at enemy* whereas 64 is a bit more nuanced than that, and definitely had some GUI tweaks to benefit that new style.
I was definitely harsh on 64, but based on the series it comes from, I think that's fair. In my opinion, it's one of the best series in the entire history of video games, and I owe it to this fantastic series to be harsh on 64.
You laid out your opinion in an in-depth manner, but I am trying to offer perspective about why some of the aspects of your argument are very subjective. The stamina meter in 64 has the advantage of allowing your units to hunt down leaderless enemy units much more easily, which is important to someone who wants all enemies dead on a map. You do use fewer items in 64, but the original Ogre Battle gave you so much gold throughout the course of the game (even while trying to maintain a high reputation) that you could afford anything you could ever want. Also, I dislike the tarot card system with a passion, as the game is easy enough without these items offering several mechanics that allow you to just break the game wide open.
Ogre Battle is a game about resource management, but even poor management can allow one enough leeway to complete the game with a solid ending. Despite its imperfections, I still like the original Ogre Battle, but it is a far more deeply-flawed game than you give it credit for.
Oh, I ain't denying the original is deeply flawed, I just think that based on the time it released, it deserves a bit more praise than I'd give it if it were released only a few years later. It certainly doesn't make it above criticism, nor does it negate any of the criticisms of it, and there are plenty, but there's nothing like it on the SNES. The fact that they achieved it is insanity. I'm so proud of them.
I've got a video on March of the Black Queen, and I'm pretty sure I give it some shit there too.
Ahhhh, I understand your viewpoint now, and you are correct that there is no game like Ogre Battle on the SNES...heck, you could say that OB64 served the same role on a N64 console that was largely an RPG wasteland. 64 has a few glaring flaws other than the plot taking a nosedive midway through Act 4, the one major gripe I have is how inferior physical weapons are to their elemental counterparts (Debonair is severely underpowered because he is locked into his Sonic Blade). However, the important thing to me is that the series stayed true to its roots and still relished in the details that make both experiences in the franchise worth playing, some of which are really hidden and require curiosity to find.
I understand the desire to see series improvement over time, but more of the same is definitely not a bad thing when it is done in a manner that is respectful to the source material (Suikoden V being close to I and II are are a great example of this). I will admit that I played 64 before the original, but I think both games certainly hold up today.
Keep up the great content!
Both games do absolutely hold up. I don't think there's a single game in the series that doesn't. I kinda wish they made Person of Lordly Caliber for the PS1, where it may have had a future, instead of the RPG-dead N64. Even though I prefer Black Queen over 64, they're both still fantastic titles. The main reason I said if you have access to Black Queen, don't bother with 64, was largely because most people don't have time for these two massive titles, or the attention span. I think Black Queen is more important in that regard, given the time period it released in, as well as what it achieved on such inferior hardware.
That said, if you've got time for both, it's not even a question, and as much as I shit on 64, it's still better than 99% of the games I've played.
I appreciate the feedback, my dude. I like when people challenge me on things. It's better than "OH MY GOD WHAT A GOOD VIDEO YOU"RE SO GOOD PLEASE BE MY FRIEND"
I appreciate it!
Best game ever made. Sorry.
Still feel the same way ever since I started playing it in 1998.
For some reason, UA-cam filtered this comment and I never saw it. It's still a great fuckin' game, don't get me wrong, but coming from OG Ogre Battle, I was fairly disappoint at the lack of overall improvement.
Count me as another huge fan! I have played all of the ogre series (even gaiden!) and 64 is my favourite. It is also my favourite game of all time. Granted, it was also the first game in the series I played
Amen.
Another best game of all time guy here. If you doubt its popularity go price a 64 cart of this on eBay.
My all time favorite game. Period. Probably beaten it a dozen times with different characters and have never been bored.
"We wanted to remain true to the original Japanese text"
Somewhere, a modern Nintendo Treehouse localizer dry heaves and donates to a tumblr patreon.
Repent, CIS WHITE!
@@Caspicum I can't be the only person who rolls their eyes when I hear someone say cis gender right?
@@Roninkinx Eh, it really depends on how it's used. Whenever it's thrown out there for no reason, I roll my eyes as well.
At least global releases allow Nintendo to tardwrangle them these days.
@HESH AtSeaLab It has become used largely as a pejorative these past few years.
A pity, because it's been in scientific notation for at least 50 years.
I love the "boring" parts of stamina and traversal and unit death. Makes the game far more engaging to me.
As to how it wound up on the 64, I think it just kinda peggled there because of the market. Matsuno got pulled away, but the outline for the game was already there. They wanted to hit the two hot systems from their best friend, and probably didn't want to compete with the guy who previously headed the series (and is still trying to come back to this day), so they got the N64 and GBA. There seemed to be some implied bad blood between Matsuno and everyone else, but I absolutely love the oddly specific references 64 got in the LUCT remake, such as the whole journey to get a Dragonscale Helm to complete the Dragon set and make any class have Dragonslayer. God I love this series. Can't wait for Reborn.
You’re too hard on this game, it was a wonderful game at the time and I still play it today!
I think I was pretty fair, that said I haven't watched this video in a long time. This game is a sequel to one of the greatest SNES games of all times, and is a part of one of the greatest vidya series ever. Bearing the name "Ogre Battle" is an honour, and I think too many mindless decisions were made with it. I also partly blame the N64 for being a shit heap.
@@Caspicum Honestly, I think a lot of the complaints you have for this game/praise for the last game is actually cutting out a lot of needless frustration and annoyance with the first game. Such as when you're talking about the Training in 64.
@@AxelXGabriel totally agree with you man. I loved the snes version and I'll go ahead endorse the statement said by him that the N64 is a "shit heap"😅 but I think i liked OB64 better. I say that because it's the one i come back to time after time. Maybe it's just nostalgia for my reasoning and my nostalgia for snes gravitates towards ff6, earthbound and a few others. Just wanted to shoot my opinion and if you liked the SNES version, there's nothing wrong with that and that's perfectly understandable
I always hated how some 2d elements look fine, but the sprites have this blurring filter applied. That statement should tell you how well I did with the ladies back when this game was out.
HAHAHA that was funny
That was odd how the sprites were filtered, but the backgrounds were clear and crisp.
Good to see you're still around, stud.
They got so wet it was almost avalanches ... sorry.
Those zingers you pull out always catch me off-guard.
A lot of people say they're cringy, so that's good to hear!
This was my favorite game on N64. I got all three endings. Also played March of the black queen. Got two of those endings. I actually prefer the N64 game. I wish they would make a new game.
I'm so glad you give this game the attention it deserves.
I like the fact that devs back in the day were still trying to push the boundaries of gaming, even if the execution weren't perfect.
But man... the feel I get from playing Yasumi Matsuno's games (Ogre Battle, FF Tactics, FF12), it feels mature and feels like it respects the players' intelligence.
Also, congrats on completing this series, this was quite in interesting to watch.
Thanks! It feels like a weight has been lifted, but now I'm stuck floating here. Aimlessly.
As for Matsuno games feeling mature, I could not agree more. I feel slack for not talking about the story more, but the video was already 19 minutes long and I had trouble finding the time to write and record it. Frankly, the fact that this video exists at all is nothing short of a miracle.
Anyway, I think Person of Lordly Caliber nails racial tension in a non-intrusive way, and that moment when you're freeing the *mostly* black slaves while the warriors are still largely opposed to you is fucking brilliant. It's not intrusive, but it fits a fairly innocent, tribalistic behaviour which would see you band together by a common identifying trait, but not in a "fuck whitey" kind of way.
To top it all off, it's just a very brief, glancing moment in an even deeper story, and it's so IMPACTFUL.
I had planned to mention this in the script, but cut it for time. Deep regrets.
Someone should do every Shin Megami Tensei.
That could be an entire channel.
I would love to talk about a few. Specifically Digital Devil Saga and Persona 5.
Nah mate, from the start with the NES game Digital Devil Story.
Jim _ Shin Megami Tensei
@@JimPanzeeEsq I tried playing that... kept getting lost and dying. Fights are also very slow. I'd thought about longplaying every mainline SMT game, but that would take an eternity.
@@steven1671 the first one on SNES?
FUCK YEAH! Now we go for Dreamcast RPGs?
That'd take longer, even counting Japanese only RPGs, the 64 had less than 10 RPGs.
Dreamcast i can think of multiple off the top of my head.
Evolution, Evolution 2, Grandia 2, Skies of Arcadia, and that's just off the top of my head.
That'd conflict with my plans to talk about the PC port of Grandia 2...
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM...
You could just do the Dreamcast version for said thing, or instead just do Dreamcast RPGs anyway, but then go "This recently came out on PC with an updated version, so i'll cover it instead since other than console it's basically the same with minor changes. I'm cheating here, but the 2 versions are close enough."
There are ways around it.
But the PC version is 60fps :(
I really would appreciate a nice rundown of the PC version of Grandia II (the new version of courses, not the old one by Ubisoft). I've heard so many conflicting things about the different versions that I honestly don't know which version to play at this point.
Ok, now do every Playstation 1 RPG. It should only take a good five years to do. Looking forward to it!
If I had the time, I would do it without a doubt. The PS1 is my favourite era of RPG.
PS2 was just as good, but yeah NES, SNES, PS1,2&3 are great for RPGs. Yet the one that is always over looked is the PC!
I actually liked this game. I loved March of the Black Queen too. This game had its ups and downs just like March of the Black Queen, but some of the changes were better for the most part. I agree the legion thing was garbage though. Just like the previous Ogre Battle, this game had lots of secrets and I wasn't aware until years later that you can recruit the werewolf guy... He's the only werewolf in the game.
Yeah, I looked at a walkthrough after I beat it and wrote the script to see if I missed anything plot-wise and secret-wise. I did miss a few mechanic things, such as being able to direct your units to other units and to towns, which I wish I had've caught, but reading about the werewolf and all that was neat.
I was shocked at how easy it was to completely switch your alignment mid-game with very little consequence, but if it weren't for that, I wouldn't've recruited Debonair and that other bloke from March of the Black Queen.
Also, don't get me wrong, I like Ogre Battle 64, but in a world where March of the Black Queen exists, you can just play that instead.
@@Caspicum You play Both!!!
@@normanbalzano2304 I did!
One thing I like about this game is how some units upgrade... Golems for example have two upgrade paths that require some careful magic to pull off! Unfortunately, it just kind of boils down to luck.
Hold on, hold on, hold on... You say this is the final video on N64 RPGs released in the west, yet you're missing the best RPG from the N64 (imo), Hybrid Heaven!
I wouldn't call it an RPG, but when I have a bit more time, it'll get its own video!
YES! that was the best!!!
Goodness I loved this game! I found it a bit easy but that's ok as I prefer a game to be a bit on the easier side than insanely difficult. Then again I may have made it easy by turning my main unit into an utterly elite military unit, attacking enemy units with it and then allowing my other units to clean them up so they could level up without being in any real danger. Nonetheless, the fact that such a strategy worked throughout the entire game without flaw felt like I had discovered a cheat code of sorts. I didn't die a single time throughout the game. Still a top ten N64 game for me.
I really wanna try this, I reciently got into the Tactics Ogre games as I am a HUGE FFT fan and the two games are great but this seems great too! I really like your suggestions about how far units can go based on class,sex and race it makes a load of sense.
you're right, we should bring back segregation.
For reals though, it makes me happy when I hear people are finding the Ogre Battle series. March of the Black Queen is fantastic, and Person of Lordly Caliber is also pretty good, but doesn't quite hit the same highs. I wish you luck and much patience in your playthroughs!
Yu Namba wasn’t part of the OB64 development team, he was head of the localization at Atlus USA. The game was published by Nintendo in Japan.
This is a game i had but did not know how to play. Now that im older and ironically developed a love for strategy rpgs this is a game i have on my bucket list.
Don't die without playing it. LIVE FOR YOUR BUCKET LIST!
Don't skip it. Just get an emulator and rom if need be.
@@careytucker9317 oh i still have my game copy and my 64. Im playing it now.
ngl this was my entire world during middle school, as far as games go. I also played Harvest Moon 64 because middle school was the worst time of my life...
One of my favorite games of all time.
Also, I am team Biske all the way. One of my favorite characters in all video games
Oh man a new video :D
I've never been a first comment before either
Me either!
Time to play this game again and remake this video. There is a lot information in this where you started to figure it out but missed the mark, such as the pause feature and understanding how to change targets. Would love for a revisit!
I don't think it's worth remaking for the target chase thing. The core criticism is still there, if anything I'd be harsher on it. In a game where you're given multiple points to heavily control movement, the solution to a glaring problem is to let the AI control your units. That's ridiculously lazy.
I would definitely talk about some elements differently, the story would get more of a focus, and I'd make less comparisons to the SNES game. Probably go out of my way to intentionally play differently, just to see how everything fares under different circumstances.
I am curious though, what did I get wrong about the pause feature?
Pause can be used anytime during before or after battles. there is no restriction on this feature very much like the snes version. Also you should hit the story again because finding the ties to the other 3 games in the series makes the narrative fit better. I like your videos alot and I think if you dug into some of the features that are more hidden such as story unlocks you may find units better suited for your playstyle. As an example using liches and princesses frees up space for larger units without sacrificing dps. Thanks for the reply!
Grats on 4th video
I'm marginally living.
I'm sad they haven't made another game like this. This was a huge improvement over the SNES one.
Even though I'm not a huge fan of all the changes, I still would love a continuation of it, and on a system that doesn't make textures look like total garbage.
Part of your problems with the game stems from not using all of the controls. For example, you can use the N64's "C" buttons to pause the game and move around. That also allows you to move slightly beyond the battlefield boundaries, letting you select hard to reach units. You can also tell your soldiers to move to a unit, which effectively puts them into pursuit mode, instead of constantly having to re-issue commands as the enemy changes direction.
Additionally, dead characters will only turn into zombies if you have "old clothing" in your inventory at the end of the level. You're nearly guaranteed to pick one up in the first level, but if you choose to sell it, you'll almost never run into it again naturally and thus never get a zombie. The undead are more used for roleplaying, rather than a punishment for losing characters.
Camping is a risk/reward system, and you can choose to camp/break camp at any time. Also certain units have more stamina when moving through different terrain. Ninjas can move through forests more easily, and beastmasters can move over mountains better. Knowing which units can move though which terrain is part of the tactics of setting up flanks and sieges. You can easily over exert your units, leaving them at low stamina meaning they'll fight less effectively. Camping leaves you open to ambushes, but you need to do it to fight at 100%. You can mitigate this using items such as power fruits, but that costs money and time to buy, organize, and use. But ending the battle quickly nets you more money as well. So it's really about knowing when and where to attack/camp/retreat making it a strategic addition to the game.
Training is an optional feature, and its function is to scale the difficulty of the game. You can challenge yourself to never use it, making levels harder; or exploit it to go god mode on some enemies. There's a feature in some Mario games that lets you skip a level. The game isn't worse for having it, because you can simply not use it.
I do agree with you regarding legions and the chaos frame. Legions are interesting to fight against, but there's no reason to use one yourself. Liberating/capturing towns adds a level of tedium, as you constantly have to check each town, remember which units have that alignment, and send them to the correct place. I'd rather the story be affected by your choices rather than if you're willing to micro-manage every city on every map.
Also alignment in general is broken, as I always end up with lawful units. It was only on my first playthrough that I accidentally made a couple chaotic units. And even now that I know what I'm doing, I still can't seem to replicate that (without using glitches). What's worse, the items you're given to affect alignment "Urn of Chaos" and "Scroll of Discipline" lower or raise just one soldier's alignment (not a unit) and only by a few points out of 100. Meaning you need at times a dozen or more of each to actually change a character's alignment, but these items are so rare that it'll never happen. When you factor in that 1/3 of classes are tied to a particular alignment, that means you'll likely not be able to use 2/3 of any class in a game.
I didn't even know C moved the camera, that's sick. Someone did tell me about moving to units specifically, which is a quick fix for the issue, but I still don't see why the maps weren't confined to a strict boundary. The fact that enemies can leave the boundaries, and you have to use secondary movement methods to effectively lock to them, which is very rarely a movement method that will successfully entrap them is silly. Seems like giving the player multi-point movement was to incentivise thinking more about movement, taking more notice of terrain, and working to your units strengths, but the auto-tracking is the opposite of that. There's the case for such small boundaries not suiting the 'realism' element the game strives for, but if enemy units can leave the map confines, at least let my cursor do it too.
I also didn't know about the old clothing thing with zombies, that's interesting. Kinda like the Angel Knights in Tactics Ogre, I can dig that.
I think my complaint about camping was that it adds time to an already fairly bloated traversal system(?) sorry, it's been a while, and it did interact with the game decently, especially when enemies (knowingly or not) took advantage of a sleepy army, but it genuinely was just *more* time spent waiting, which, after March, seemed like a step backwards. Especially given the other stuff it did to try and speed the game up a bit.
I also don't remember what I said about training, probably whinging about its inclusion being unnecessary. Oh wait, I think I remember, it was about March's original paradigm of balancing levels and alignment for the best endings but also not trying to gimp yourself in the late game (I think). This complaint should've been pointed more toward how the systems work together, and less directly on the training aspect. Though I could be misremembering the entire thing.
Yeah the Legions were definitely wasted potential. Though, I'd imagine there was a lot done to balance them which is why they ended up a bit bastardized. As for towns and stuff, that's one area March could've used improvement, and clearly the devs of 64 thought so too. Again, another missed opportunity I think.
Yeah that bloody alignment thing was mental. I tried to play Chaos and decided to stop trying and just go with the flow about halfway through, maybe even a bit closer to the end, as it felt like every battle would draw me closer and closer to lawful regardless of what I did. That said, I am horrible at micro-management, so I bet some of that was responsible too.
I appreciate the comment, my friend. Always love learning new shit about these games, especially the Ogre Battle Saga which seems to have an endless amount of new stuff to learn.
@@Caspicum I'm just glad to be able to talk about this game. It was a favorite of mine as a kid, and because of that I forgave a lot of its flaws. I'm happy to see it get some attention, but sadly I think it's a franchise that has more or less been abandoned save for a Smash revival a la Fire Emblem. I hope I didn't come across as too harsh or bitter, I was just trying to add to the discussion. I hope you keep having success with your channel, take care
I watched my uncle play MotBQ on the PS1 as a kid, but 64 is the only one I personally got into, so I had no feeling of "What happened to the" throughout. Really wish a new title balancing out the 2 were in the works.
Anyway, you seem to have problems chasing units. You know when your giving movement instructions, there is box on the top right of the screen that says "Stronghold". Pressing R toggles it between that, Unit, and Location. Setting it to Unit makes your troops focus on chasing whoever you target, even beyond the limits of the screen/cursor. Now apologize to based 64 RPG.
Oh shit! Unit chasing works beyond the boundaries? Well that fixes that, I guess. I will say that I enjoy the predictive method of movement, where I try to anticipate where the enemy is heading, and then select a few points to try and break their pace. It's how I did it in the SNES one, and old habits die hard. That said, I wish I knew of the character chasing.
It's funny you mention that about stamina, because actually certain units will destroy the amount they have based on preferred mobility.
Hawkmen and other flying units for instance in an entire flying unit can fly (duh) but they'll also get tired very very fast compares to a ground troop.
Certain Forest and Mountain biased units lose less stamina by traveling through that terrain and they'll also be a lot faster as they do it.
I love getting comments on my Ogre Battle videos, because I always learn something new. I thought terrain movement just affected speed, but it's nice to see that they thought of the stamina drain as well. Even though I'm not a fan of unnecessary stamina meters, at least they thought it out and didn't cheap on the impact.
THIS game...hoo boy. I spent months as a teen trying to unlock every class. Vampire, Dragons, etc. So great. I could never get the SNES ROMS to work, but had this bad boy on the console. I'm often tempted to go back to it at some point.
Unlocking classes has always been a logistic nightmare in Ogre Battle. It's been too long since I've played 64, but I know March was not only incredibly vague with requirements, but also how to implement them. Honestly, you might've been better off not having the SNES rom work for you.
casp is my favorite nintendo 64 rpg ever
I could be a bit longer, tbh.
hah! at last! took you long enough good sir.
2 months and a bit. Way too long. Glad to be BACK
8:51 To chase down fleeing enemies, you can tell your unit to chase the unit you want to hunt down by changing your selection mode with the R button. You have it set to Stronghold, so the unit will prioritize Strongholds when you move the cursor to them.
Furthermore, you should buy food items for a Unit to carry if you wish to have your Unit energized.
And Unit composition does affect the speed a unit can travel. You can make a flying unit with Griffins or Hawkmen that can chase down routing units for mop-up duty, as they'll fly over all terrain.
Yeah a few people told me about the selecting specific units, and that is nice, but if I want to pincer them and still can't manually select the areas outside of play, it's still a decent issue. You're effectively pushed to allow the game logic to define where and how you move, when they've attempted to give you more control over manual movement and the two ideas run contradictory. All they gotta do is define a hard line where both allied and opposing units can't move past, and the issue is completely remedied. Such a bizarre inclusion man.
@@Caspicum If you press R again, you can select a specific location on the map. You can also Pincer units by using Legions, but Legions always seemed inefficient and scary to me.
this game
THIS FUCKING GAME
needs a remake or remaster , its SOOOOO good
I snagged my copy from Gamestop for 50 cents. BEST PURCHASE EVER!!!
That's actually a bargain, hey.
Congratulations for the series, that seems like a lot of work!
"And I'll never do another series again" we've been there already casp, you know it's not true. You have digimon games yet to review my man.
And no Shiren, eh? That's ok. Someday I know you'll play one of them (just not the 3, please).
Shiren is absolutely on the list!
think you could ever talk bout Knight of Lodis, my first Tactical RPG and one I still cherish
I actually intended to do a Knight of Lodis video shortly after this one, but I have this weird issue of starting Ogre Battle games and then sitting on the footage/script for a few years before I actually get back to it. Legitimately did a 100% run where I collected everything in 24 hours, so I got the secret ending, and captured it all, then never worked on the video.
I will definitely do it at some point, and hopefully soon! Then next comes Let Us Cling Together... That'll be a task and a half.
@@Caspicum Hell yeah, I remember when I was a kid my first GBA game was Golden Sun, then for my birthday I got two games...Bioncle (which was trash) and from my parents Knights of Lodis, which I remember always telling them about, describing it kinda like chess as I showed them the nintendo power screenshots, as I didn't know the term Tactical RPG. Good times, though if I recall I got the not so good ending. maybe cause I took the side of my friends who were evil...or something? Should replay it sometime...LOAD UP THE EMULATORS!
@@Caspicum hey sooo...its been more than a short time, gonna talk about the game? LOL
Hey new to your channel, never had the chance on playing the other Ogre games except for the Knight of Lodis, I was wondering if you'll cover all of the installments of the series? Which Ogre/Tactics game is your favorite?
I want to do Let Us Cling Together and Knight of Lodis at some point. Based on how LUCT is 100+ hours, and I'd have to talk about the remake in some capacity, I'll probably do KoL first. hopefully soon!
favourite would be... Probably March of the Black Queen, closely followed by Knight of Lodis.
Pitch a tent for 18 hours? Maybe they should see a doctor about that.
It's fine I got a lot of blood
I wish there were more Ogre Battle games.
Me too tbh. I've been prepping for a playthrough of the PS1 version, and once I'm a master at Japanese, I'll play the one that never got localized. It'd be lovely for a series return though!
'Sees in Inbox'
I've been waiting for this.
Oh.........you didn't like it that much.
That saddens me.
...........Wish Square would just give us a third one already.
The first half was great, but the second half tanked and burned everything in sight.
remake when square?
I would immediately buy a sequel or remake, i'm one of the people who bought the PSP remake of the PS1 game (And it is a Remake, they added and changed ALOT.).
Yeah, I want to play the original Let Us Cling Together. It seems infinitely better tbh. STill loved the PSP version though.
Hope you can cover Tactics Ogre soon! Would be great to hear your opinion on the original before the reborn version is released.
While pretty much everything you said is true regarding the shifts in the game mechanics from MotBQ to PoLC, some of what was being done for the N64 game do make sense in the broader overall context of what was going on with the development of the game.
Firstly, there's the big shift in terms of the RPG Strategy Game balance. MotBQ was almost purely a mechanical strategy game with light to moderate RPG elements and a rather minimal story that mostly revealed itself incredibly indirectly. It was was quasi Dark Souls like in that really there was a bunch of lore that you didn't know when you started the game, but after you beat it once or twice you'd understand it enough that you could figure out how to pair off characters to unlock special dialogues. But all that game had for story were portraits and text boxes, and that's not much to really tell a story, so they didn't really. It's almost purely the mechanics of battle with this layer on top of story elements.
But then Yasumi Matsuno (the head guy who created Ogre Battle) did Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together to basically address that balance. It was way more story focused and had a graphics system built from the ground up to make fairly compelling story sequences for the Super Famicom while also serving to work for tactical gameplay. He then apparently started work at Quest on a pair of follow up games with the Ogre Battle sequel concept becoming what would eventually become PoLC, but not too far into that design process, he bailed from the company to go work at Squaresoft where he took the Tactics Ogre sequel concepts he had and turned that into FFTactics.
So the rest of the team at Quest were trying to not just follow up the OG Ogre Battle, but also Tactics Ogre, and that meant creating a game that could also allow for the cutscenes and tell an actual story this time around, which ended up pushing that RPG Strategy Game balance more toward the RPG side. So stuff like managing funds and reputation - basically the core meta elements of MotBQ - got cut down heavily to be more like traditional RPGs. The Chaos Frame stuff was made more opaque I think to emulate LuCT as well, since LuCT had a very divergent story based on character choice, and Chaos Frame is the primary way the story diverges in PoLC, so they didn't want to make it totally clear to the player so the story would better follow their natural choices.
Also, Matsuno leaving is obviously the tell as to why the story falls apart in OB64. Obviously that guy has that special sauce that all great storytellers do, and the folks at Quest that made OB64 apparently off of some of his preliminary ideas just couldn't fill his shoes. The overall of the game's plot is OK, but it just gets rather generic as I recall, and there definitely aren't enough twists and turns toward the political stuff, which is where the Ogre Series has shined, but rather toward the mystical stuff, where it tends to become more generic.
Still though, it saddens me that Matsuno nor anyone at Square has decided to ever follow up on these games. They started a rather solid series with four interconnected games that wove together an interesting world over time, and they've just let it sit in their IP drawer for coming onto 30 years now (not counting the LuCT PSP remaster). If there was ever a series to revive, it's this one.
Hi there! This is one of my favourite games of all time, heck might even say #1. I do appreciate that you made a video on it, and heck, a fellow ogre battle fan!? I will see I feel you're a bit harsh on it, only because it does have a surprising amount of depth. Oh, it does have it flaws - for real it does - but I feel that in general, the n64 one is a lot easier to get into then the SNES one.
I grew up watching the SNES one, and when I got to play the n64 I was also disappointed at first. I adored the tarot cards for example! But the more I played, the more I found myself really enjoying the game. I do notice there's some things you definitely miss - some of them have been pointed out such as enemy unit hunting, combo magic and dragon evolution - and some others such as the extra pedras, some of the special classes, the whole zombie chain evolution, wild neutral units, heck even the possible recruitment of most enemy units once you get a specific item. There's also small events hidden here and there when you explore maps again! I also think you misunderstood how town liberation occur - the morale works to your overall unit alignment. so say you have a high alignment unit, they tend to liberate 80-100 morale towns. if you try anything with lower morale, they'll capture it, which is negative chaos frame. neutral towns are always captured. stuff like that!
I do appreciate your look at it, and honestly some of your criticisms are well deserved. I hate legions with a passion, although the centurion animation makes me so happy. and I do agree large units is kinda bleh compared to MotBQ. and I'll definitely agree that it's not really a 'sequel' to march of the black queen. I tend to see it more as... well something more inspired by the original game, but changed for the climate of the time? I guess long ramble short, I do think there's a lot of things you missed if only because these are some of the things people figure out over multiple replays! sorry if this seems a bit rambly, I just felt I had to comment!
I hope you're having a good day!
I'm sorry I missed this comment 4 months ago! UA-cam's hiding things from me, and I hate it!
You're right about the things I missed, and honestly, I probably missed a lot more than that. Some things I did intentionally leave out, because I'm not a comprehensive review guy, I just talk about 'big' things, so to speak. Like, if all I can say about something is that it exists, then I just omit it because I don't really have a reason to bring it up. That said, I missed combo magic entirely *somehow* and should've mucked around with large units more. I think I intentionally avoided the zombie tree thing because I hated the concept of being rewarded for losing, but it would've been a fun talking point.
You're also on-point, I did over-compare it to March of the Black Queen. I get why I over-compared it, because it is essentially a sequel, but I should've stuck more to the game itself, over what value it has in a direct comparison to a game that isn't it. Honestly, it was a bit lazy on my part.
I appreciate the criticism, though I will say, you're far too kind. This video's a bloody mess, and you don't have to butter me up to let me know! But I appreciate your kindness in approach regardless! I hope you're having a good day too, and sorry about the late reply.
u can target enemies to give chase by pressing L when choosing a direction to move.
I love ogre battle. But I love ogre battle 64 as well. Alot of the elements you think are worse I like. For example I loathed tarot cards. Spending all that time and management trying to keep your reputation high only to draw devils, towers and hanged men really infuriated me. RNG is nice in roguelikes or turn based rpgs with accessible loading. But it didnt seem right in ogrw battle imo. I also feel like 64 gave you more access to cool characters, units, and items on your selection than the first game did if you werent guide dangiting it up.
Yeah, the original was super-obtuse, and that's why I like it. It's just a really weird mix of mechanics, and the text is so minimal, and barely explains anything, so you're often left to figure shit out for yourself. With 16(?) endings, or ending variants, it encourages replayability, even if it's for the wrong reasons.
It totally wasn't that bad man. But I hear ya still.
I was definitely harsh, but Ogre Battle is a series I love. Easily one of my favourites, and I was so bummed when I saw how many steps back they took. I guess my issue was having high expectations.
@@Caspicum Ya I know man it could still be going right now as a successful franchise. I def hear ya^^
This guy should review the other Ogre Battle games, the GBA and PS1 ones. The next two are very different form the two he reviewed and would be interesting to see his opinion on them.
So I spent like 400 hours playing this game and you really missed the mark with some of the things you said. You totally left out the combo system and you make a few down comments about the large monsters, but for instance when you level and evolve 2 large dragons to the final form, they hit the whole battlefield and do damage and status effects. They are an investment early on but the pay off greatly in the end. This Is one of my favorite games of all time and you are bringing a 2017-18 gaming mindset to a game that it 20 years old and being extremely hard on it.
For some reason, UA-cam didn't show me this comment 6 months ago. I was scrolling through the comments by chance and saw that I hadn't replied to some good criticism, so I'm sorry for the wait!
You're right, I definitely missed the magic combos , and despite doing a fair bit of research on large units, it seems the info I had was wrong. I did use them a bit, but definitely not late-game. I don't think I was bringing a modern mindset to it, because I love March of the Black Queen, and still think that holds up, despite it's many, many flaws.
If anything, I compared it to the SNES one too much, and held it to standards that were far below it.
I also missed some other things and would've liked to have gone in harder on certain elements. This video is pretty rough, tbh, but I think most of my criticisms are on-point.
Thanks for the comment!
Oh! I haven't found them yet, but did you ever cover the PS1 and Saturn ports? The PS1 version actually added a lot of what 64 did, like better explanations, better AI, waypoints, and mid Battle saves. Saturn added directional stuff...but not really. Does have a hard mode, though.
I never played through the PS1 version, the Diablo font and load times are a huge wall. However, the Saturn version has just been translated fully(?) and apparently the load times are nowhere near the PS1 ones, so I'm looking at doing a follow-up to my SNES video in the future. At the very least, I'll do a casual playthrough, but if there's enough to talk about, it's on the cards tbh.
@@Caspicum So coming from a nut from the series, I will point out one thing. The SNES version doesn't have load time, and the Saturn has pretty lengthy pre fight ones, but those PS1 loads are a decent faster than the bonus text boxes the SNES version has. I don't want to post links, but I did a speed comparison video on them a bit ago.
Having played the FF-tactics advanced games it's kind of weird seeing the little things in this game that went on to influence them, you might enjoy going on to play tactics ogre and the FF-tactics games at some point.
I love FF Tactics and Tictacs Ogre, my boy. Knight of Lodis was one of my first grid-based tactics RPGs and pretty much ever since then I've adored the genre. I'd say it's probably my favourite JRPG sub-genre. I definitely want to make videos on the two Tactics Ogre games but the thought of playing two versions of Let Us Cling Together is quite honestly one of the most frightening thoughts to someone with little time.
I got some other SRPGs I want to cover in the near future, like Stella Deus, and Phantom Brave, but Tactics Ogre is 100% on that list.
i did not know there was a ogre battle on n64
Shouldn't the Pokemon Stadium games also count? Admittedly they're just the battling aspect of the handheld games, and the second one is effectively a rehash of the first, but they're still RPGs to some extent, right?
Kinda. I do address this in my Hybrid Heaven video which is basically part 5.
You were playing it wrong by hitting R when you have a unit selected and are trying to assign a destination you can change whether it will move to a location, a base, or an enemy. You wasted so much time trying to chase enemies when you could just tell your unit to do it automatically and continue until the enemy unit is eliminated. They will even chase them out of bounds. It sounds like you didn't mess around with alot of the finer mechanics of the game which were surprisingly complex for example when you were almost tired enough to force a camp the unit will have a flag indicator associated with them. It isn't the default setting to the one they start with which just shows it's movement action. I believe you have to change it similar to how you change unit commands. Point is I'm pretty sure you didn't play the game to it's fullest.
And why don't you have unit speech set to first person every unit has unique lines and it adds character to the game.
And you can tell your units who to attack like to Target the team leader. You can find hidden characters, there are tons of hidden things, you didn't mention, there are combination magics, you can raise dragons and golems from babies to full on terror beasts. You literally played this like a scrub you have no idea what you are doing. You didn't mention all the missable heroes and the reason the chaos frame is important is because it dictates which heroes will join you, there are 3 paths all with their own specific heroes which adds to replayability. My God your review is the greatest injustice I've seen in years. There is so much depth and control that you clearly missed, that you may have not even reviewed this at all.
I did talk about Chaos Frame though. I said it was worse than reputation from the last game, because reputation was difficult to manage, and visible throughout the entire game. It took a careful hand to keep your reputation above a low amount, whereas Chaos Frame is just paint by numbers. These numbers correspond to these alignments, and you need to match the alignment. Literal baby-tier trash, my dude.
I'm not sure if you watched the whole video, yet are saying it's a waste. Seems like you're doing the exact thing you're accusing me of.
As for the videos I make, they're not meant to be comprehensive, they're just a handful of things I found interesting. I will admit, I didn't know about being able to chase individual units, that would've been a sick addition, *but* the fact that units can go out of bounds is fucking retarded anyway, and shouldn't be a thing. I should be able to manually chase a unit to all ends of the map and interact with them, as the path-finding in Ogre Battle can be retarded at times, and OB64 is no exception to that.
Also, "playing it wrong" is retarded. If I were playing it wrong, it wouldn't let me manually move the cursor. I missed one small thing, but that doesn't mean I played it wrong. I wish I knew that thing was there, maybe I didn't read tutorials, or test the game enough, maybe the game didn't let me know, probably the former, but I still beat the fuckin' game, my dude. Clearly didn't play it 'wrong'.
The rest of the top half of your comment is gibberish, please advise.
I know you can tell your units who to attack, I address that in the video.
I know there are hidden things, I address that in the video. I'm not going to list every single secret in the game. This is also a follow-up to my previous Ogre Battle video, where I talk about how much shit they hide in these games. Based on the fact that I missed a few things, they hid them *very* well. I also don't use walkthroughs or Google shit for vidya unless I think I'm missing something, which is very rare.
I didn't know there were combination magics, are you talking about the Elem Pedras, or just character magic? The game hides a lot of shit, forgiveness please.
Also, I talked about larger enemies/monsters, and fought several of them in the wild in the footage of this video. I noted that they were a waste of time because of how much space they took up, and how two individual units were generally stronger.
Based on your gripes, you want me to sell this game to people like a back of the box quote. "You didn't mention how many secrets/characters/story paths there are."
I'm pretty sure I briefly spoke about how Chaos Frame dictates story paths, but I don't want to be like "WELL THE EVIL PATH GIVES YOU THIS GUY BISKE WHO IS PROBABLY STRONGER THAN THE REST BUT STOPS YOU GETTING DESTIN AND DEBONAIR."
Normals would tune out. You gotta play to your audience, my dude.
So the only good criticism I'd take from your comment is that I missed a sub-menu, which would've helped me around some of the shittier design, some combo magic which adds (???) to the game, and that you're mad I didn't cover it exactly how you like. Cheers, bruv.
Your comment is a presumptuous joke.
"You didn't sling a list of back-of-the-box comments, so you didn't see everything."
I clocked 80 hours in Person of Lordly Caliber, and I picked the good ending because Chaos Frame is so shit, that I easily pushed it from evil to lawful in like 3 stages, solely because I wanted the characters from a much better game.
Everything mentioned in your comment is shit I know. I know zombies become skeletons, I recruited a few ogres, as well as dragons, hawkmen, and all sorts of shit. I know different unit types interact differently with terrain, this is all shit from the previous game. One of the characters in the footage I captured is a dragoon.
I'll admit I missed combo magic, either through not triggering it, or simply not recognising it, but everything else you've said in this comment is idiotic.
Good shit, always wanted a good review for this game, no ones made one of quality like this before.
I appreciate you, baby. I'm not 100% happy with how it turned out, but I'm glad it's not entirely shit in the eyes of a few!
13:25 "But It's A Fucking Videogame Nigga, Who Cares" -Casp 2017'
That's how you know the script was rushed, I said the bad thing.
I said "who cares"
@@Caspicum I'm Black, From The South Bronx Near Yankee Stadium And I Have No Problem With It, It Was Funny And Random As Hell... Just Keep On Doing What You Doing Brotherman, Fuck The Haters, Dead Ass
Not going to lie this is MY FAVORITE game other then Zelda for N64 and I still have it :)
We don't lie here, this is a safe space for truth.
I imagine you'll do a video on tactics ogre at some point too ey?
Definitely. I played through Knight of Lodis a couple years back, and even recorded it too, but nothing ever came of that. I've still got the bloody footage.
i liked this game though unlocking some stuff was a nightmare as well as finding hidden items
im also surprised you did not mention how broken full grown dragons in the back are or archmages with the super spells
It's been so long that I can't remember how I used formations, but I've traditionally played with Dragons in the front. I might've played with drayguns in the back, but the game was so easy in general, especially compared to the SNES one, that even one-shotting entire groups wouldn't've made me raise an eyebrow.
did you ever get the super classes like the dragoon lich and serph??
I remember getting Dragoon, because it was all fancy and it only let me have one, but I don't remember the other two. I possibly got Lich, but I don't remember Serph at all.
the lich is a super mage
the serph is strange you get it by useing a item that lures a enemy unit onto your side and if you do it right you get one its a ok unit not to worth it
Not to be that guy but there is one more RPG on the N64. It's more of a mix of genres but it features a turn based battle system and FF2 esque character progression, aliens and wrestling
Funny you should mention Hybrid Heaven. If that's a game you so desire, I'd keep an eye on the channel over the coming days :^)
Casp O'saurus gewd, that game is a Messterpiece.
Watch another video to save us all time... You are the only one who saves time from that ;P
tru tru. I'm not a fan of repeating myself, because UA-cam videos are already bloated enough as-is, and I try to keep stuff as short as possible so people aren't mindlessly consuming fluff.
That said, I also feel bad about asking people to go to another video. You can't win, hey.
I remember when I first picked up this game. I had previously played Tactics Ogre on the PS1 and came across this. I thought that it was going to have the same style of game play. I was disappointed at first but I did end up enjoying the game overall. It definitely has its flaws, and having since played the SNES game, I did like that more, I still think this is worth playing. Great video, Caspyboy! ;)
I've met very few people who enjoy the N64 one over the SNES one, and other than the functional changes, I wonder if it's just a visual thing. The sprites in the original are fucking beautiful, and here, they're all muddy and strange. Something about MODE7, man.
I played ogre battle Japan version, and I don’t understand. But end up enjoying it
I'd imagine Ogre Battle uses a bunch of complex Kanji. What a nightmare.
Gonna have to disagree with you. I think the original ogre battle was a significantly duller experience. I found the intricate story of the 64 version to be more engaging and feel it has a really high replay value due to the many different endings, available characters depending on choices and recruit-able neutral units. I do like the tarot cards in the original. Maybe it's because I played the 64 version first, but it's tough to transition to the snes ogre battle after playing this one.
Spoiler Alert ***So, the interesting thing about the chaotic vs lawful units and training units outside of missions is that if you turn your army into super strong steamrollers and crush everything, you get a ton of chaotic units and the worst endings. You and your army essentially become monsters that are no better than the ogres and you are forced to kill all of the lawful characters in the story.***
All that said, I still really want a third installment. I would buy a console just to play a quality sequel. There's so much potential in this series, not including the "tactics" sequels which were incredibly disappointing follow ups to say the least. Well at least you played it. Most never bothered.
Always thought FF Tactics was the next Ogre Battle, just with a new branding for marketing purposes.
Wasn't there also one on GB Advance, or was that before this??
FF Tactics shares an illustration style, but that's about it. The last Ogre Battle game came out in 2010/2011 or something, and the last FFT game was 2007.
There was one on the GBA in 2002 or 2003 called Knight of Lodis. Fantastic game.
Ahhh right. I always thought it was a spiritual succussor. Never got around to a proper Ogre game. :-/
Honestly, FF Tactics IS pretty much the spiritual successor to Tactics Ogre if we're being honest, right? If anything, it is extremely similar to Tactics Ogre with some added Chocobos and Fire/Fira/Firaga names inserted, 3D battlefields and, of course, the Final Fantasy Job system. It was made by many of the same staff members who worked on the Ogre Battle games at Quest, including Yasumi Matsuno. The storytelling is also extremely similar to Matsuno's other work (Ogre Battle, FFXII and Vagrant Story specifically) minus the branching storylines of LUCT. Either way, if you liked FFT, you should absolutely play Let Us Cling Together and The Knight Of Lodis. I think LUCT is actually even better than FFT.
By the way, that last Ogre Battle game released in 2011 was just a PSP remake of LUCT (a very good one!). The Knight of Lodis was the final "new" game.
I'd consider FFT an unofficial part of the Ogre Battle series. The Advance titles aren't good enough to be Ogre BAttle games :^)
Jim _ - YES! There is a GBA version and that one was awesome!!
13:25
Oh, don't mind me, just placing a bookmark for quick access whenever I come back to this vid.
The 4th and final installment. Damn that's a lot of RPGs... Not. Now I remember why I never had an N64.
that's why this series took so long. So much to go through, hey.
It's about quality over quantity.
Hey uh, quick question: what do you mean by "accessibility pandering"?
i think i explained it in the video, but i could be wrong, it's been a long time. if i had to take a stab, I was probably referring to making games easier or the content itself more accessible for the below-average player, at the expense of the average and above player. A reference to dumbing games down, and undermining visions for mass appeal, not what people use the term 'accessibility' to mean now, which is subtitles and colour blind options and whatever. That's a non-issue, and most N64 games were certainly not addressing that.
Ya this game is so large but done very well in this video of explaining things. Slow clap and Rudy music plays
Combat being the meat of 'every worthwhile videogame'. I see you didn't play the classic adventure games like King's Quest, Monkey Island, The Longest Journey.
I only had Day of the Tentacle :(
If I said combat was the meat of every worthwhile videogame, I definitely meant to say RPG. I froth on shit like Papers Please. Legitimately one of my favourite games.
How about a review on let us cling together english translation for snes ?
It's on the list of shit I want to cover before I eventually start doing makeup tutorials. I also haven't played much of the SNES version, but have played the PSP one to death, so it'll be a good'un.
I actually played Knight of Lodis about a year ago and recorded the entire thing, then just never made a video. Might have to complete the saga sooner rather than later.
So is Let Us Cling Together a sequel to Ogre Battle 64?I have the N64 cartridge and the played it so many times and wanted a sequel of some sort.Thought about picking the PSP version of Tactics Ogre as I read it's like Final Fantasy Tactics which I loved too..Any music from OG64 on there.Any reference to OG64 in the game?
Let Us Cling Together is the last game in the series, it's a sequel to March of the Black Queen, which kinda had two split paths, (three if you include one game that never came out in the West) one leading to LUCT and the other to OG64. If you want a real prequel to Let Us Cling Together, you want Knight of Lodis. It is a direct prequel, and focuses on the Lodissian army before they became involved with the events of Let Us Cling Together.
It's a messy series, but I love it.
There's no real connection between Let Us Cling Together and OB64, but if you've played the original SNES entry, March of the Black Queen, you'd see many a returning face.
I'm a big fan of the first game. I don't think I could get into this one bc of crucial changes you mention. Too bad, I thought this was one I could sink my teeth into some day.
I'd still give it a go just to confirm, but these changes trivialize the fundamentally great synergy of the original. It's still okay, and I wouldn't say it's bad, but it doesn't capture the magic of March of the Black Queen.
@@Caspicum I would if I had the patience and time, but you succinctly spelled out all that would turn me off if I were to try it. Who knows? Maybe if I'm lucky enough to retire.
i agree that it was not held back by the hardware and im a guy who comments on youtube videos so if anyone would know it would be me
I like March of the Black Queen, never finished it, cool game. But I would argue its borderline impossible to understand without an outside guide. Atleast Ogre Battle 64 is in theory possible to figure out with only information presented within the game
I think March of the Black Queen is perfectly winnable without a guide, it just has a *lot* of hidden goods. Justifies repeat playthroughs I'd say, which works well too as there's like 16(?) endings.
@@Caspicum easy enough to cheese the game if you're not worried about reputation but i mean more the basic mechanics like how reputation works to begin with are not explained in game at all, they might have been the instruction manual but i've never even seen a scan of the instruction manual it seems to be lost to time
ah i looked here's all the instruction manual says
Reputation Meter [ornate thermometer]
This meter shows what the people of the area think of you. You may
play Ogre Battle without regard for the opinion of the populace, but
the storyline will be adversely affected if the meter falls too low.
oh wait there's more
WHAT AFFECTS YOUR REPUTATION?
Although you may play Ogre Battle any way you'd like, a good
reputation can ensure help from the people of the area.
CLASS COMPATIBILITY (affects CHARISMA AND ALIGNMENT)
Characters in a unit with very different Compatibility cannot fight
to their maximum potential.
ALIGNMENT (affects YOUR REPUTATION)
When liberating towns, the Alignment of the liberating unit should
be higher than the town's morality level.
CHARISMA (also affects YOUR REPUTATION)
A high Charisma level means that you are a good and effective
leader, and will raise your reputation.
YOUR REPUTATION
Finishing the game with a good reputation will be one of the factors
in getting the best ending to the game.
@@alexbrander5464 I don't think beating it without knowing reputation is 'cheesing' but I get what you're saying. Game's definitely got some conveyance issues, but I genuinely find that endearing in an age of handholdy tutorials. Also, I gotta find me those booklet scans tbh.
Ah but Casp there was a 3rd game for the Neo Geo Pocket Legend of Ogre Battle Gaiden: Prince of Zenobia tho being a handheld game and japan only
pls don't trigger me
I don't consider it a third game, since it's really just an expansion, but I would love to play it some time.
Sorry
Is it worth playing? I've seen that it's basically the original but a wee bit shorter and refined.
Depends how forgiving you are with it I mean it is a wonder that they was able even make it how it is on the wonder swan
Uh, pretty sure that was on the Neo Geo Pocket (Color), not the WonderSwan. Unless there's a port I haven't head of. And it's a new game btw. I apparently plays very much like March of the Black Queen, but serves as a sort of side story to that game, following one of the characters from that game. Never played it though, it's Japanese only and no fan translation exists.
you just got a sub yahaha
WHAT ABOUT HYBRID HEAVEN????
SORRY FOR THE LATE REPLY, UA-cam SUCKS! IT'S COMING SOON, I SWEAR!
Cant say i agree with your arguements. The game is legendary and one of the few that makes the 64 a decent system along with fzero x and banjo kazooie.
No worries, mate. I think most of my arguments are pretty solid, but I was definitely a bit hyperbolic in this. After so many years of adoring the Ogre Battle series, I still consider it the weakest, and I was pretty disappointed in how it turned out, but it's far from a bad game.
...you named your army the Creampies 😐
We protect the women and deliver the goods.
I cannot disagree more with your conclusion at the end.
Even with the faults presented, Person of Lordly Caliber is a fantastic game and something right up the alley for someone who was into the first one.
I love Ogre Battle more than a person of unlordly caliber should, and it's been a good 3(?) years since I made this video, but I still feel as though it has the core gameplay there, but without each intricate system working in tandem, it fails to recreate an experience as good as March of the Black Queen. I generally look back on older videos and think "I was way too harsh." or "this is the cringiest shit I've ever seen." but I'm pretty resolute on this because of how much I love March.
The beauty of the SNES one was how each system interacted with another, and genuinely pushed the player. Lordly Caliber made the systems too lenient and added a bunch of unnecessary crap. It's still an Ogre Battle game, so it's my baby, but if I were to recommend one of the two English ones to tediously slog through, it'd be the SNES one without hesitation. I don't think I'd recommend the N64 one because of all the steps backward.
@@Caspicum You made your points clear in the video friend, I love your videos, even this one.
Yet I cannot agree with the idea of 'Oh you should probably skip this if you are into the idea'.
In fact, I highly suggest people to play the SNES one and then this other one. Flaws and all. They are similar enough to be a nice bag of shiny 'more Ogre Battle'.
For instance some of the points that turn you off in the video come from your own perspective, like the possibility of grinding outside battles. I've know friends who preferred this, and got a clear on it, because they weren't great at Ogre Battle. It offered them an avenue to see the story, the maps and later units.
So what can be an absolute 'bad thing' for a skilled player was a lifesaver and made people I know appreciate it. Some even went back to the snes one with more confidence (and a guide haha) and got that clear.
Also, your reply to my post is just a massive cope for you to not work on the other Ogre Battle series game isn't it? (This is a joke).
I've been sitting on a Knight of Lodis video for 3 years now. If I coped any harder, I'd be political twitter. :^)
You are definitely right about grinding, I have a video where I jerk off grinding as the ultimate tool of accessibility and that tutorials and other concessions aren't as effective, and pigeon hole players... In far less elegant words, I'm sure.
That said, what I loved about OG Ogre Battle (and even to an extent Lordly Caliber) was that levels/stats aren't the focus. You do one mission, you'll *more or less* be ready for the next, and if you're a bit weak, good terrain, party make-up, or (directional) positioning can turn things in your favour. For me, Ogre Battle is an RPG that denies its traditional RPG interactions by allowing more RTS elements to shine, and this is coming from a dude who loathes RTS...es. I am nothing if not completely contradictory.
I guess if I go down that line, then I'd have to get into intended play vs cheaper strats to win and I'm too much of an unnecessary RPG grinder to justify that. I'll just say that I'm happy your mate stuck with it, and that feature allowed progression without the loss of their sanity.
The outright saying "Don't play it" was a bit weird, I usually encourage people to try it for themselves. I'll put that down to me working 40-50 hour weeks in a bloody hot van and having to find time to make videos on long-arse RPGs. In hindsight, I probably would retract that, but reframe it as a "If I were going to pick one, I'd go the SNES, but either is fine because it's Ogre Battle."
I also think I over-sold the SNES one in the video. That also has *huge* issues, though is a bit more... concise.
Anyone getting into the series genuinely excites me, even if it's my least favourite... Or Knight of Lodis.
fr tho i do kinda love Knight of Lodis an unhealthy amount. And I appreciate the comment. I much prefer comments where I have to think about it over "great video man". I'm appreciative of any kind of engagement, but people disagreeing with me and making me actively reconsider my own opinion is the whole point of this channel.
@@Caspicum The fact you gifted me with more thoughts on the Ogre Battle in general because I disagreed with you made me happy. I am a big fan of both the series and your videos so it's like a crossover of good things I like going at it.
Your reflections are on point. I don't think I can add any more to it when I did that comment my mind was going "But wait he just gushed about this game, why is he so adamant on putting over another game, that is better? He seems to like this one and even if it's worse than the SNES one, it is still a good, fun game".
Also, let this post be a callout post for the Knight of Lodis. Release it! (When you can).
God damnit I missed your voice so much
Yo. I miss you baby.
I think stamina differences between the sexes is a little much. What about age as well? And diet? And walk speed? :P
Terrat1na I think the old Wizardry games would gimp old characters if I remember correctly.
There is actually age in this, but it doesn't impact anything to my knowledge. Stamina differences between sexes wouldn't be too far from what's in the game already, as most classes are gender-specific. In games which have Male/Female options for classes, men typically have higher strength/stamina/etc, while women can make really killer sandwiches.
Ogre Battle/Tactics Ogre games, that is. It won't let me edit the fuckin comment.
Any similar new game to recomend?
Oh shit, that question caught me off-guard. The only game I can think of that even *remotely* comes close is the Valkyria Chronicles series. Ogre Battle is RTS with big RPG elements and turn-based combat. Valk is more actiony, less focused on units and cohesion of *the boys* and more RTS-lite, with a fairly reduced RPG presence, though not entirely removed.
I wish I could say yes, but all I can do is recommend a game which barely has anything in common outside of vague genre classifications. If you stumble upon something, you gotta let me know though.
Do another series. On something like... Digimon?
That'd be stupid. It'd over-run my channel. Are you mad?
Not true at all. You can safely convert neutral towns if your units chaos frame is within 10pts of its morale.
I thought it was a direct comparison. I did a fair bit of research trying to sus it out, and it has been a couple years, but from what I found it was lawful units for lawful towns, etc. Or do you mean there's a 10 morale sorta... buffer in either direction? Because that'd make sense.
Ogre Battle was amazing. Tactics Ogre: LUCT was also a great game but a completely different style. Still a lot of fun. Ogre Battle 64 was an attempt to go back to the original style but frankly it failed in many ways and is my least favorite of the series. I even prefered the GBA game over this one, which went back to the style of the 2nd game and did a really good job of it.
Yeah Ogre Battle is brilliant. I was a bit harsh in this video about the N64 version, but I think my disappointment was very clear, and my expectations were very high. Granted, those expectations were set by the rest of the series, as it is a solid series, and I gotta agree about OB64 being my last favourite of the lot as well.
See, the GBA game being a prequel to LUCT makes it like 11/10 for me. I need to write something meaningful about LUCT and KoL, and go ham on some videos!
Ogre Battle 64 is one of my favorite games of all time, but...yeah...it's not without it's issues. Namely, legions are pointless and you can steamroll the game with an army of Sword Masters and Sirens.
I was definitely a bit harsh in this video, but Legions were horrible. I reckon they could be done well as a concept, but here it just did not work hey.
Disagree. One of the best N64 games ever made. It has some flaws, and the resource management elements are dumbed down, that’s true, but it has one of the coolest class trees and one of the best stories in games to that point. 3 endings and a huge roster of recruitable heroes with interesting backstories. Big characters are def worth it if you use their trainer units (beast master, doll master, dragon master). If you had a hard time following the story, I don’t know what to say. You need to read more.
My issue wasn't that I couldn't keep up with the story, the issue was that you get a jargon-filled narrative blast before the game begins. If I wanted a poorly-written book, I'd read Harry Potter. If you spent less time reading, you might be able to listen and interpret messages correctly. *oof*
Also, I don't disagree that it's one of the best N64 games, but that's because the N64 library is so weak, it gets the position by default. That, and it's an Ogre Battle game. My entire point was that it's not as good as a game which predates it by 7-odd years, on infinitely inferior hardware. Doesn't mean it's not good, just that they've done better in the past.
They changed a lot of what made the original game a *tight* little package instead of expanding on it. What little was expanded upon was surface-level shit. As a huge fan of the Ogre Battle Saga, I expect more of any given title, and won't give it praise just because it tried. No participation trophies here, bucko.
Harry Potter is badly written? Haha ok, mate. We're just going to fundamentally disagree on what is a good story then. What you apparently want is a streamlined simple plot that is spoonfed to you. Just because this story isn't that, doesn't mean it isn't good. The game is slower paced for patient people, and the plot reflects that. If it's not for you, that's fine.
Ogre Battle 64 is a complex narrative with really compelling plot twists and choices. Your choices determine whether or not you reconcile with your father, who becomes your allies, who becomes your enemies, who lives, who dies. Your choices determine whether the revolution is a total waste or a true success. Seeing Ankeseith die wrecked me the first time I saw it. Or Leia having to kill her father. When Magnus and Yumil are facing off, the stakes are so high. It's a compelling story. Simple doesn't mean good, and complex doesn't mean bad.
Your reading comprehension is about where I'd expect a Harry Potter apologist, hey. Nowhere did I say I'm against complex narratives, if you'll permit me to copy/paste the exact thing I wrote and you failed to read the first time: "My issue wasn't that I couldn't keep up with the story, the issue was that you get a jargon-filled narrative blast before the game begins."
A jargon-filled exposition dump before a game begins isn't good writing, famalam. A brief premise description would be fine, and those elements are welcome to be complex and jargon-filled after I've got my bearings and I'm invested in the world.
Doing it before anything has happened is intimidating. How the fuck am I supposed to remember what kingdom is what without repetitious exposure to it? I shouldn't be expected to take notes, I at least expect to be introduced to elements in a natural way, which allows me to take note of significant terminology and locations.
I remember most of the locations from the original game, and from Tactics Ogre, because there was very little exposing before I became a part of that world. I was allowed to see that shit for myself before I was told why it's important.
I can't even remember a single location name from 64, or who were the major players outside of a couple key story characters.
You've made up all this bullshit and then responded to it like it was something I said. "Simple doesn't mean good, and complex doesn't mean bad." Point to where I said this. The point was about pacing, not about complexity.
*oof*
I appreciate the input, but you're sperging out my dude.
Oh cool, ad homonyms about my reading comprehension totally convince me the error of my ways, that I am wrong, and that Harry Potter is bad. Oh wait, they don't; that's a logical fallacy. Poisoning the well by saying that I have poor reading comprehension for liking it is also a logical fallacy. It's circular logic. Calling me a Harry Potter Apologist is also a bit rich. All I said was we disagree, and whether or not you like that kind of story is subjective. Pretending that your subjective opinion about it somehow superior to mine is laughable, considering that every book in the series is a bestseller and has each won a minimum of two distinct honors and awards per book. Many scholars consider it one of the most compelling works of allegorical fiction. I have a degree in literature and have had to do plenty of secondary source reading on that book, and it's pretty much universally critically lauded. All of those things are true, but I said none of that. I just said you and I disagree on what makes a good story.
Perhaps you didn't communicate to me what you wanted me to understand with the phrase "a jargon-filled narrative blast" because it's is an incredibly subjective statement, and pretty vague. That isn't really my fault. What exactly are you referring to as jargon anyway? The classes and weapons? What technical terms are you referring to? Because there isn't a whole lot of technical language in the plot at all, let alone the beginning. The only part of the language that's challenging at all that you've referred to is keeping track of the place names.
Place names and character names aren't jargon. Jargon is a technical term specific to a field. If you're having a hard time with the names and all the history and lore, that isn't what jargon filled means. Lodis, Palitinus, Nirdam, Danika, Berthe, the Infernal Auras, the Progenitor, and all that isn't jargon. It's just lore. And if you find that intimidating, that's fine. People have said the same things about Lord of the Rings or Game of Thrones. That doesn't make either of them examples of poor writing.
Now apparently you want a plot with "very little exposing before I bec[o]me a part of that world," to be "allowed to see that shit for myself before I was told why it's important." IE, a streamlined plot that you don't have to read. You want to jump right into the experience. And that's fine. But because this isn't that, that doesn't make it poor writing. You found it intimidating, as you say, and it sounds like it disengaged you from the story. When I played this game, the lore had the opposite effect on me. I had a strong sense of place before even the first mission. This was a Kingdom with a proud history, real problems, and a whole lot of political intrigue. The richness of that world immersed me, and it made me much more sympathetic to Yumil as well as the rebels and the Nirdamese.
You don't find the characters memorable, and I'm scratching my head. Characters like Dio, who could end up becoming an enemy or your right-hand man depending on your choices, who risks his life and his career to let you get away with sparing the enemy leader, characters like him aren't memorable? Who in March of the Black Queen is more memorable than him? Or than Leia, who spends the whole game as this badass, swaggering tough bitch, until she has to fight her father, and collapses into Magnus' arms, sobbing, but then stitches it altogether the next day? Or Ankeseith, your noble father whose conscience forces him to choose between his loyalty to his lord and his son? Who is more hateable than Rhade or Baldwin? Magnus is certainly a lot more fleshed out than Destin was in MOBQ. Hell, even Destin has more to him in this game, and he's a relatively minor character.
Even the side characters like Liedel and Carth and Paul are interesting when you meet them, and have cool relationships that form in different endings. You can get a freeking werewolf! Biske is badass. And don't pretend that Canopus in more interesting than Sheen, the hippie free-love Hawkman. If you prefer the SNES game, fine. Totally get it, and that's your perogative. But it's subjective to say that it's better, and to say don't bother about POLC is very harsh. I'm ok with agreeing to disagree, but the petty pot shots are unnecessary.
Yeah, this isn't a debate, I was making fun of you because you missed my point entirely, and then got buttmad about things I never said. I think that's fair. Lighten up, sweet heart.
It totally is your fault for not reading and comprehending correctly. You stopped at "jargon", when the main component of the sentence was "before the game even begins". You're also taking my words extremely literally for someone who is 'well-read'. Have you ever read Jabberwocky? That shit must've been like another language to you.
"Jargon" was clearly a loose exaggeration to illustrate how unnecessary and obtuse it was. I like to loosely exaggerate with words for occasionally comedic effect, but largely because it's more enjoyable to pen. "Xingomorph was the first kingdom of the contintent of Dingodile. Emperor Shengoose attacked the Yoggles with his Whippitystick and the Sherleens decided that to protect Eggleston they'd have to nut up and launch an all out offensive on Emperor Pingu of the Mahambabamanamaba tribe." Shit like this is useless pre-game.
"It's not my fault I can't read, write things in a way a random on the internet can read it." lol
You also came out the gate with adhoms before I did, boyo. I'm very rarely rude in replies to people (seriously, I reply to almost every comment, check my history) but I only make fun of people if they act like they've got something to prove and come in hot. Shit's funny as fuck.
As for the rest of the comment, I just don't think this game spoke to me much. It's okay, it's a bit surface-level. It has some great moments, and I'm sure plenty of which I missed, after all, it is an Ogre Battle game.
Thing is though, I've played so many amazing games, that even things like Ogre Battle can get lost in the mix. I'd say where OB lost it for me personally was that it did try to focus heavier on the story, instead of letting character interactions on the field paint a small picture. The original set the tone of the game, and gave you all the story you need through a few dialogue boxes amid long stretches of gameplay, it was a break from the monotony, so even someone who doesn't necessarily like story in their games would appreciate it. OB64 spoon-feeds that shit to you and removes the mystique of finding information, and having story as a reward instead of an obligation.
Some cool things definitely happen, I honestly forgot Dio did any of that shit, but I do remember him trying to fight the protagonist at the beginning. The rest is a bit of a blur, hey. The only chunks I *really* remember are when the Black Queen boys come back and give you a bunch of ultimatums and vague nothings about the future and shit.
It's been almost a year, so that could also be it. I've played hundreds of games since, some of which were, unfortunately, more fantastical than Persons of Lordly Caliber. I didn't want to dislike OB64, it's probably the game I looked forward to playing the most in my entire UA-cam career solely because of my love for the series, but it disappointed me so greatly, that I don't know if I'll ever love again.
Until I replay Black Queen.
What are the Japanese N64 RPG's?
Not too sure. I was just going off this list: nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Nintendo_64_role-playing_games
Yeah, sounds like a solid game overshadowed by superior games of similar ilk. Unfortunate, but what're you gonna do?
*play the original*
Ogre battle is EASILY the most awesome jrpgs franchise ever made. March of the Black Queen was my first jrpg; I've played when I was 11 years old, and that thing BLOWS MY MIND!
It's true that Person of Lordly Caliber are not perfect, have Major improvements from the last game, and many downsides as well. But the universe are simply incomparable! I strongly recommend all games; specially the tactics spin-offs.
As much as I was disappoint, I can't bring myself to dislike any Ogre Battle game.
I'll never EVER like the alignment/reputation system of this series. It is like extrapolating morality from someone's eating habits, it becomes rather arcane if you aren't using a guide and is more a penalty to avoid when trying to get the best ending or secrets. I STILL remember Let Us Cling Together when I kept trying to get the Necromancer and how many hoops I had to jump through (including getting a secret item the game never tells you about that isn't signposted) to even attempt it. (Ohh LUCT... I love you but your post-game was baaaad)
I definitely agree about the post-game of LUCT, and I get where you're coming from with the morality gripes, but they're only a penalty if you see being an evil boy as a bad thing. Other than the mid-game of March of the Black Queen, I think it's pretty fair in how it distributes good and evil allies, which is something I regret not touching on in Lordly Caliber.
As for the secrets, I'm of two minds about them. I love when optional, relatively unimportant things aren't telegraphed, so that some will miss them, while others will interact with them. Kinda personalizes your experience based on playstyle and whatnot, but when you're out looking for specific things, it can be a complete pain, you're not wrong at all there.
I love Ogre Battle for comments like this. I appreciate it, my boy.
It is a series I love and I wish continued... a hope against hope. Even if my preference is Tactics Ogre.
When I was watching the movement part, I cringe so hard I had to stop watching. If you press R, you can rotate target types from units, strongholds, or locations. And yes, it lets you pursue units "outside" the map
Yeah I didn't realise you could give chase to a unit specifically. That said, I still don't think it's good because the AI-controlled movement sucks. Seems silly that they'd make general movement so much better by giving you multiple destination points, but then fuck it up by introducing an element that makes multi-movement points redundant.
If the enemy can move out of controllable bounds, then your game needs a quick fix. They can't move out of bounds in the SNES version, and are constrained to the same restrictions and limitations as the player character. Having enemy characters leave the controllable boundaries, regardless of whether or not you can use AI movement to chase them is poor design.
The simple fix would literally be to disallow enemy units from leaving the battlefield, or making it so that when they do leave, they exit combat entirely. Or just let the cursor go everywhere, like in the original game. I wish I did notice you could chase units because I have a lot to say about it, and it would've definitely fit in with the other gripes I have.
lens flaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaare
FLENSE LAAAAAAIR
well thats done, now what?
There's one more game in the N64 library which isn't really an RPG, but which has RPG elements, so that'll be next as a standalone video.
looking forward to it!
You're talking about Buck Bumble, right?
It's not quite as complex as Super Robot Taisen 64.
I don't doubt that for a second!
I kinda rather like the Ogre Battle Tactics ones, honestly.
Never could get the original alignment popularity thing.
Maybe they should've gone the Wesnoth or X-Com route with this game. Kinda.
I like that it exists as-is, but it can be extremely alienating. The Tactics games are fantastic though. I've had a full game recorded since like last year or something, but I haven't thought of anything to say that would justify a video. I'll have to replay it soon.
13:25 n bom
N is for no survivors.
The storyline is a bit inferior to the prequel