Are Driving Standards In Sim Racing Getting Worse?
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- Опубліковано 27 лют 2024
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Zlappy has been saving replays for an entire sim racing career for this moment.
Yes - he's been racing since Sunday.
I mean it looks like a single player ai race with the f1 cars in gran turismo so idk maybe I'm dumb
At this point he needs to wonder if hes the problem 😂
@@slof69The ai drives like their the only cars on the road! Rammed and spun on a regular basis...
About the Roval incident, the Orange car was driving along the blue/white line. The orange car couldn't do anymore while the white car was moving towards them. I would blame the white car.
I think Jimmy's point is that this would be considered as a corner entry and since the white car is ahead, it has the choice of line, the orange car would have to back off.
I can see both sides, I just think it depends on how you interpret this as a corner entry or not.
Race line on that track is actually through the blue line by quite a bit.
The blue/white line at the Charlotte Roval is misleading, the line you want to take out of that chicane to be quick is hugging the wall on the left, onto the apron, then drifting to the right back up onto the oval - if you just follow the blue/white line you will be very slow through that part of the track and lose quite a bit of time (at least in iracing, idk how the rules work irl)
100% on the white car, you can't drive a car off the road by trying to close the door while they are still along side you. If the white car was actually ahead (and entitled to the corner) they wouldn't have crashed.
100% on the white car, you can't drive a car off the road by trying to close the door while they are still along side you. If the white car was actually ahead (and entitled to the corner) they wouldn't have crashed.
“Guys, you’re racing fake cars on the internet” - Gold Jimmy, pure gold
100% will live on for a while that one
Zlappy is either the worst driver we've seen in a while or the unluckiest driver we've seen in a while.
Zlappy probably doesn't get in more incidents than the average simracer that races a lot. I think its just that this subreddit primarily appeals to people that just want to be vindicated.
Yeah. Spin enough laps in any public lobby in any racing sim and this will be your experience more often than not.
Both?
@@philipkalin1928what? I’m not sure we have ever raced before 😂
He is the worst driver
At 11:00 I don't really get why it's not the white car's fault. Orange car was holding his line and the white car basically just drove into him and spun himself around.
Agree entirely
Orange car was behind and drove into the back of white. "Holding his line" is not a rule for the car behind
Agreed. Orange gave all the space he could without driving off-track
@@DingbatToast White was never clear, and moved over towards the edge of the road like Orange wasn't there...
That's not what happened@@DingbatToast
10:05 I would have said it’s the white cars fault, they hadn’t completed the overtake and chopped across the orange cars line. I would argue they are now on a straight so the orange car is still entitled to a cars width of room if the white car hasn’t cleared him yet which he hasn’t at the contact.
The thing is that you are able to drive over the red, white, and blue run off area without getting an off track penalty, I think the white car knew and the red car didn’t so they both came together
@@who_am_you that makes sense, i didn’t realise you could cut it
@@who_am_you Wait, so the track limit is not the blue and white line? Or the game doesn't consider the blue and white line to be the track limit? For me, it seems like if it's just the game doesn't consider the blue and white line to be the track limit, which would be by definition, that's not enough space given.
For Zlappy, that one at Long Beach, you GOTTA make that move quicker than that. I feel like he bullied the GT3 car at that point to get under him at the Fountain and compromised his race a lot, then absolutely botches the mid corner and expects to just take the exit on the racing line - that's shitty. He could have left enough room so that didn't happen which is good situational awareness.
The Ferrari that hit the Porsche in Forest Elbow even hit the WALL before hitting the Porsche 🤣
Definitely agree with this, I'd like to know Zlappys irating, he's clearly got speed but when you're having so many incidents you've gotta realise maybe you're not being as evasive as you could be, and playing a part in it. He kind of just tried to get past the Lambo and then forgot to accelerate at least it felt like to me, The Lambo being the leader I'd say was expecting the GTP to have been gone by then but it wasn't, I'm not saying it's NOT the Lambos fault but at what point is someone causing incidents for others
100% agree about Long Beach. That GTP could have just opened the corner a little and compromised the right hander. He's not in an immediate battle and made a stupid move cutting across the GT3 coming out of the fountain.
tbh if I am the lambo I absolutely wouldn't expect the hypercar to exit the corner slower than I do and will also just floor it along the racing line
Oh, for that clip I was the green Cadillac gtp behind the two involved in the crash. My friend was the black porsche gtp and he wanted to know who was at fault. So i posted it on reddit 👍 btw my iRating is 3400
@@jj72rg don't know if you've ever driven the GTP's but they are absolutely terrible in the slow speed corners. They have no mechanical grip whatsoever. If a competent GT3 pushes they can easily keep their nose in there.
White Mx5 definitely should have left more space, orange left space and would've had to lift to avoid contact, whereas white could've just not chopped down
yeah i think its the fault of the orange, he didnt had any space to the left side
@@j3llybr34d7 How can those two things be true at the same time? He had nowhere to go (assuming that white/blue line is track limit) but it is his fault? Typo?
Yeah I was confused by Jimmy's decision here. To me it was the fault of the white. As the orange was staying on his line and the white was moving into his line.
on charlotte, the racing line is all the way over the red part, so the apex is as basically the turn of the red, there is no offtrack for that, so the way the white car drove there was lots of space, but the orange car was oblivious to that racing line and took the actual track for it
@@florianmaslofski"took the actual track for it" I think that's all that needs to be said to show that the White car was at fault. They have the course borders for a reason, do they not?
'Are Driving Standards In Sim Racing Getting Worse?' id say no, its just turned to quantity not quality
Yeah I think this is a combination of two different phenomena. First, Like you said, there's more visibility into incidents than ever before, so naturally it will feel like they happen with more frequency than they do. Second, there's just more people playing sims than ever before, so you have a much larger pool of new and developing drivers.
@@user-lw4hz5hx5hThis. Its the same phenomenon as 'why are games so much more buggy?'
Reality is that much of it is more to do with the ease of recording bugs and posting it to social media, plus the increase in players as a whole
@@jamiedavinci1328These are completely different things. Video games have gotten astronomically more complex over the years, which has often (but not always) coincided with corporatization, management taking shortcuts (“16 times the detail!”), and holding development to unrealistic goals (see the story of No Man’s Sky’s release) or underinvesting in critical infrastructure (Apex Legends servers, anyone?). Bugs obviously did occur in older games, and development timelines did still exist, but the gaming industry of today, plus the presence of incentives like microtransactions, is a very, very different beast than it was two decades ago.
The first reply has it correct.
@@fourierbird Also the fact that devs now have the ability to put out a completely broken game and make it playable later with updates. Nobody had that luxury 20 years ago, either the launch version worked or you're sunk.
I don't know for SimRacing as a whole, but I find standards getting worse in iRacing. We went from a "passionnate" crowd to a "gaming & performance" one, and it shows.
"watch the replay before you open your mouth" is great advice, there's been a lot of times i've had that gut reaction to moan and gripe, but than take a deep breath, watch the replay and been like "ok yeah I put the other guy in a shit place/should have seen him/wasn't as clear as I thought" and even if it wasn't my fault on review tried to look at it more like "what could I have done differently or better? what can I learn from this?"
Totally agreed. I remember once in GT7 I got heated at a guy and called him dirty in the post race lobby. Watched the replay in between races as you have a solid 8 minutes or so, and it was 100% my fault. Luckily he was in the next lobby and I got the chance to apologize, ended up having a pretty good race with him the second time.
I haven't been in a simracing crash for months. I also haven't driven in a sim in months. I think it's a coincidence.
Most likely.
SLIM FACING STUARTS
I've learned that advice at the end as well. Things can get really bizarre if you don't. Had one guy on LFM send me a message "complementing" my driving after we'd had a coming together at a race around Spa ... except I hadn't been involved in any crashes. He'd messaged the wrong driver. So, out of the goodness of my heart I decided to look at a replay of the race and find the incident he was whining about. Turned out it was his fault. He was complaining about not being given any room at the first chicane but replay showed the other driver gave him plenty of room and it was him who had caused the contact and taken himself out.
Always ... check ... the ... replay ... before mouthing off.
Jimmy, I think you got the MX5 Roval one wrong. The white car was never clear of the orange car, and I know everyone and their mother cuts the exit to the backstretch chicane, but you can't assume that, and the white car just moved across the nose of the orange car obeying the track limits.
Despite the actions of the lead car it doesn't give you the liberty to drive into the back of them, lift your foot.
@@yugimotobutjacked3231 Why? They still had overlap. Show me where it says a trailing car has to accommodate you moving over.
@@yugimotobutjacked3231 How many times are you going to write the same terrible take?
@@yugimotobutjacked3231You do not have to lift to allow a car past you that is not actively lapping you in ANY racing league worth being a part of
The white car was not clear of the pass and had SO MUCH TRACK but instead they tried to squeeze the orange car. I'd agree it's on white, they had made their pass but they got greedy and wanted the absolute perfect line into the next corner, ignoring that they weren't quite clear of the other car.
Hello everyone! I’m Zlappy from all of those clips featured in this video! Thank you Jimmy for your views and opinions on all of these incidents not just mine! 🙏
Anyways I wanted to explain from what point of view I was in for all these clips.
First clip: 0:30 I was the pfg livery porsche, the one that was punted across to the left.
Second clip: 2:01 I was the Aston Martin on the inside.
Third clip: 4:36 I was the green gtp behind the two involved in the accident. The black and gold Porsche gtp in front is one of my buddies and I only wanted to know who was at fault. 😂
Fourth clip: 6:59 I was the white Porsche gt3.
Fifth and final clip: 7:45 Phew, okay I was the McLaren livery car the one on the outside.
Please by all means let me know your opinions and views on these incidents! As a fellow sim racer I am here to learn if I make any mistakes! Thank you and thank you very much Jimmy 🙏😊
EDIT: I really don't understand why people think these crashes were my fault. I'm only 15 too
I feel like people only think it’s your fault in all of these because it’s not really clear which car is you in them
The standard assumption would usually be that the camera is following the person who submitted the clip
Based on which cars you said you were in, yea I don’t think you were really at fault with any of these
@@milky-joelu thank you mate 🙏
Nice to have parents buy you all that shit first iracing huh
@@mattjax16 🫵🤡
I have a job, and I earn my own money. So if your ignorance says otherwise, then lmk 🤷♂️
What does being 15 have to do with it though...? Anyway, keep racing, keep learning regardless of who's at fault!
Hey Jimmy, just a heads up, @11:10, you *can* in fact use the red/white/blue runoff... that is within track limits. Presumably, the orange Mazda didn't know that, and was anticipating the white Mazda to give him space alongside the blue line of the apron. Just my two cents..
"Can" does not mean "must" you know. Orange was not obligated to go there.
Thank you for the insight on my post, Jimmy! What you said lines up with what I heard from others in the comments on my original post and while I haven't run many races since then I have taken that advice to heart. Thanks once again!
Yes. They are. I’ve been online racing since 1999. People are getting way worse. The respect is all but gone.
Doesn't it also have to do with how accessible sim racing and how popular (or even "trendy") motorsports has become ? The degradation of racing quality online's a very intriguing phenomenon honestly.
@@PierreR115 oh absolutely. I just get on an iracing kick every year and by month 2-3 I’m all but dreading racing anymore because when you don’t think it can get any worse, it does.
I watched my buddy stream on twitch last night. Got up to a guy from 2 seconds back in a lap and a half, got inside, clearly, and dude just turns left across his nose then, yells at him for racing because he was “saving his tires.”
@@Nickearl1that's a horrible driver if i've ever heard one
It was one of the wildest thing, to the point I asked my buddy in chat to ask him if he was trolling.
Really appreciate these videos. As a newbie, I’ve been posting my own experiences. It’s rarely clear cut and I often change my mind after watching the replay. Thanks Jimmy
6:22 It was the Clio drivers fault but just FYI the Clio doesn't have ABS so when you're new to the Clio in iRacing and over step the brakes you just go straight, also it's not a clear cut faster car than the Mazda or Toyota despite its 'class' in PCC.
Ah, it should be faster. It's comfortably faster in the right hands
@@justinkrizenesky circuit dependent
Im brand new to this driving sim thing, and these videos really help me understand the etiquette and procedures due in these sort of races! Time to binge all the content I can haha
Love this Sim Crash series! Keep it up!
I primarily race short ovals on iRacing. It's all about respect and etiquette. There's been rough patches and better patches. I feel like the last few weeks have been a bit better than things were toward the beginning of the season. I was seeing lots of revenge and intentional wrecking earlier on this season.
I love this series keep this up man !
I know its not your wheelhouse, but I loved when you added in an oval sim racing stewards clip. When you have in the past you've been correct on your judgements!
zlappy started posting 19 days ago and has made 13 posts on that specific subredd and another one on another.
Common denominator lol
Keep doing these jimmy love this
I would perhaps disagree with the multiclass inchident, because in my limited experiance with the rules of multiclass racing the sloqwer car isn't really obliged to give space. While I do agree that the GTP was slow off the corner I think that knowing they didn't get the exit they wanted the GTP driver should have left space on the inside. It is understandable that the GTP driver chose their line as they appeared to be in a tight race.
Jimmy I feel like this happens any time you judge a clear sideswipe.
For the incident at 3:33 I had to rewatch it just to make sure you seriously said the McLaren should take a penalty. The lead car clearly changes his line, turning into the middle of the track and swiping into the car working on a pass. He pit maneuvered himself.
Incident at 4:36 is almost the same thing but at least there's some nuance being that its a multiclass incident. The passing car was clearly running him right into the wall. You aren't allowed to just make an unsafe pass and blame everyone around you. He had not yet completed the corner, and instead of taking the exit wide to accommodate the car on now his inside, he closed the door. Chicanes are not the same as other turns, you need to be aware that the guy on your outside is about to have your inside, and react accordingly. He misjudged, and pit maneuvered himself.
The incident at 10:03, the white car clearly just turns right into him. He decided he was ahead enough, and just closed the door on him, and unfortunately for him he was wrong. He also pit maneuvered himself.
You have a tendency to just give the front car a free pass on all actions he could possibly take because its his road. This just isn't true. Every pass starts with a guy poking his nose up, and there's a thousand things you're not allowed to do when defending. Ramming into your opponent is one of them, just because you're ahead doesn't mean you are now permitted to drive with complete ignorance to the cars around you.
Agreed, this was an incredibly rare Jimmy L. The Lambo guy in Long Beach just held his line, a racing incident at most, but probably prototype man at fault... at least that one I get, the Miata incident at 10:03 was baffling and extremely clearly on the white car.
read the rules of relevant racing divisions. I've only seen 3:33 so far, The McLaren drove into the lead car, the lead car doesn't have to stay far to the left. The Mclaren drove into the lead car.
4:36 is just race incident, about your dick length in mm of contact. 10:03 The white car turns infront of him, not into him, the orange had plenty of time take his foot of the pedal. Most of these are caused by the follow car not taking their foot off the pedal. Like it or not the rules don't require the lead car to drive the exact same line as you, and your still not allowed to drive into them
@@yugimotobutjacked3231The lead car absolutely does not have the right to chop the nose of the car behind and force them to lift. If they want to race that aggressively, then an incident like this can happen and it's entirely their own fault.
Leave space.
@@yugimotobutjacked3231It's a racing incident at worst. It's completely reasonable for the McLaren to assume the other car would exit the corner on the racing line (like every other car in the video) and not half a track width to the inside. The McLaren exited with a shallow line, giving the other car a load of room to exit the corner normally.
They've definitely been in decline. Seems like anytime something goes more mainstream you see this happen. Same thing happened with surfing. It exploded in popularity, with that lineup etiquette and adherence to the unwritten rules has gone out the window.
Kids see how “professional” drivers behave on track, and think this behavior is now acceptable.
Yea that dutch driver is an example 😂
@@lambolim2178 BINGO!!
@lambolim2178 Nyck de Vries was a bit of a tosser.
Unfortunaly, crashes get for common lately. Since the introduction of the halo, there are more and more crashes that might've killed drivers without the halo. As cars get safer, driving standards shrink. Just look at DTM, teams quit the series because it gets too expensive due to the crashes.
I feel at 6:00 the Lamborghini had been overtaken but the move wasn’t 100% done. More like 97%. He came across while the Lamborghini was almost behind. Sort of a rac8ng incident.
This is my favorite SimJimmy content! Thanks!
4:58 Jimmer is an eggspert at the Long Beach fountain section 😹
love this series
I steward in our gt7 league and I agree with your decisions. It’s just that I read a lot of “I was all the way to the edge of the track I had nowhere else to go” (when sticking a nose into a space where it has no business). I always then say: use the pedal on the left…
Absolutely love sim racing stewards. Entertaining and for someone entering the world of sim racing I learn so much 👏🏼
I love this series
These are great. Always look forward to them.
These are your best videos. Keep it up!
I like these videos. :D These incidents are hilarious
10:46 the line many people there is straight over the painted lines on the left. I expect the car in front was taking that line, where the car behind was sticking to the track markings.
not even 20 minutes ago i was watching the last one wondering when the next would be
now im happy
This is by far one of the best racing segments on the entire internet. I just wish this was 25% of all of Jimmers content.
My most common crash is anticipation on corner exit as the overtaking car, there’s so many times where I’m chasing someone and time them perfectly, get on the throttle in anticipation of them doing the same on corner exit but then they just don’t and you smash into them, I reckon some guys are skilled enough do it on purpose, but the guys who don’t mean it, the guys who are quick but not consistent are so frustrating, you know you’re quick but you have to dial it back but not too far or you won’t get past anyway, hardest thing I’ve had to learn in racing
12:26 is much more than just racing advice, trying to pick up that skill will also be useful in having control of yourself in unpredictable, testy situations.
MX-5 at Charlotte chicane. The orange car does not seem to know the fast way out of there through the apron, but the white car did and I think was expecting orange to go through the apron as well.
Also I love this epsiode of the Zlappy got into an accident show
What a time to be alive looking at the quality of these games is unbelievable
Thanks Jimmy, great vid.
Orange mazda vs white mazda, it's 100% on the white mazda, just turn in across the nose of the car they'd been giving space too so cautiously just before. Not intentional, but very poor.
Love this series, it's usually as educational as it is entertaining.
Though, as someone who runs a Porsche 917k livery on my modern Porsche GT3 cars, I personally feel called out by this; 00:49 😅
Brilliant! Love these.
I think the white MX5 in Legaa23’s submission was the one at fault - not the orange. White moved across the track to take the racing line in front of the other car before fully clearing them, and Orange stayed as far inside as they could on a predictable trajectory. I feel like you can’t reasonably expect Orange to lift into an acceleration zone for a car that’s pinching you off the corner, and White wouldn’t have lost any speed giving a car’s width on the inside.
The black and the white car is a very hard one to call. Because it doesn't look like there's any contact. But like you said if you have to pin it on any driver it would have to be the white car.
@7:24 the hand drawn painted Porsche looks pretty sweet ;)
Great video! More of this please 😃👍👍
10:15 i would actually put it on white car i thing he moved into oranges line, orange kept it straight compared to the white line but orange didnt
Ayyyyy 14:29 Lupus Nocte music!!! One of my favourite artists!
@10:21 that’s on the white car I’d say the orange car was on the very edge of the track limit and the white car has pulled across him before he was fully past
Ah, too short, please give us more!
thank you for the episode mr. B
Prototype incident on the last corner of Nords definitely had some netcode involved. The nudge happened before the cars actually touched.
With more drivers been added to sim racing is safe to say that we get more “inexperience” or “bad drivers”. The sims/games are not good enough to improve the drivers skills. Drivers need to practice the basics for longer before driving with other drivers. Think like, how it would be if everyone just get a driver license and start driving, we get more accidents due to inexperience drivers. Simulators/games need a driving school something like Gran Turismo. It’s definitely needed. Otherwise, we can expect online racing to go to a bad stage.
9:55 white guys fault mate
Zlappy out there being a menace and posting every single one of the accidents he causes to sim racing stewards lmao XDDD
wow, so you are making assumptions? I have clearly stated my povs in each one of my clips 🤦♂
On the Charlotte Royal, the track limits are way inside and you can drive across the red and blue stripes. I think the white car gave more than enough space.
"Watch replay before opening your mouth" no truer words have been spoken.
Last time I was this early my girlfriend sighed and got dressed again
Your imaginary girlfriend?
What console does “girlfriend” come on??
3:18 - correct! It's an unfortunate racinf incident. Nobody's at fault! Jimmy is an *EXELENT* race judge👍
Look at the back markers dash of the orange car. He was in 5th gear going into the corner.
I have had great races all season, lots of good drivers to be happy about.
on the assetto corsa touge part of the video as far as I know the ae86 car that was used is a drift tuned car so I think he was just trying to drift that specific section of the touge seeing as how he was slowing down and tried to whip the car around to maybe initiate a drift but didnt expect the miata on his side
every official race I get either wrecked from the lead or caught up in someone elses missed shift/problem. They need to suspend/ban more people but the business model will never allow for it.
with the mazdas at Charlotte I kinda felt like the orange car didn't know you can run on the apron coming out of that corner.
but I do feel a lot of people post stuff on srs in hopes of being mentioned in your videos.
That yellow lamborghini did a textbook judo takedown
9:53 the darker car just spun in a very unsafe driving distance
That GT7 footage looked insane. I actually thought it was real F1 😂
9:30 That's all netcode right there. They never even touched.
im interested in the lmp3 one around nord. almost seems more like the result of racing closely with netcode.
That GT7 footage looked real
In all fairness to Zlappy, I'm glad he can still post his crashes, his fault or not, and try to learn from it, he didn't seem salty when he titled the posts so it seems he's at least level headed and willing to learn
Re the Clio V MX-5. I think the Clio was trying to back out of the move, but the MX-5 took the corner as if the Clio wasn't there so I would say both had a hand in the incident.
Yes and its because a select couple of drivers at the top are getting away with nonsense and then everyone else follows suit because they think that's what it takes to be the best. The person with the highest IR in the world is notorious for dirty driving. Its not a good look for sim racing and certain drivers need to be put in their place.
2nd last clip: i‘m a pretty quick driver and it happens all the time that slower driver just brake like 20-30m earlier than i do, leading to a inevitable bump most of the time… i can see the BMW is a SILVER driver , which is not PRO but able to race to some extent, still not on the Pro level as the Lexus. so i think this was just a driver level difference as i think the Lexus could‘ve mad that corner easily with that braking point.
Jimmer, we need this to be a regular feature ... often.
Zlappy is officially our Mr. Punterino fanboy mascot
Road to 1 mill boys
my favourite new show is finally back!! yaaaaayyyy!!
For the Mazda clip, I'm saying it's on the white car. He didn't give the orange car enough room to stay on track, and you can't force someone off track
Jambles bobblehead - where did you get the group b print on your wall behind you?
On Nürburgring's last corner issue, there's no contact. The driver on the outside pushed the throttle a little bit more and spin his car. It happens all the time.
Netcode
its not netcode, the driver oversteered before and spinned before, one can see that it's not netcode/ lag with the skid marks way before any contact, he was already spinning@@SmolOperator
Yes! People forget to just have fun driving and take it way too serious.
@14:50 Lexus driver was just a Forza Drivatar. (so tired of being knocked that same way after they catch my pace by rubberbanding)
My man, you usually get these right, but what on Earth was that take on the orange-white MX5 incident? The white car moved over to where another car was, already sticking to the edge of the track, without giving it any room and took itself out. How is that on the orange car accelerating in a straight line?
Despite the actions of the lead car it doesn't give you the liberty to drive into the back of them, lift your foot.
@@yugimotobutjacked3231 What an absolute Maldonado of a comment. Being in front does not mean you can just swerve into another car. And having to brake is in situations where there isn't enough room for the lead car to go, in that video I think I could fit two more MX-5s and still have room for the white car to not wreck themselves.
Please stay away from online lobbies, thanks.
14:39 actually helped him through the corner on accident, maybe bro running into everyone is right and everyones just going too dang slow😂
4:26 It's tough because the Ferrari takes a weird line. At 4:23 he's in the McLaren's blind spot at just the moment the McLaren needs to see the Ferrari's line to avoid contact, so IMO it's just unlucky and a racing incident.
5:26 I don't see what the Lambo did wrong here. He's not obliged to get out of the way, Zlappy has to pass safely and it looks like Zlappy has just misjudged how far ahead he is and come back to the racing line too early. Racing incident.
9:37 You can see in this view the white car actually has very little space, and again I think the black car comes across too early, plus the other angles clearly show there's netcode.
Good advice Jimmy, Watch the replays. However it is hard for some to keep and open mind and be humble enough to admit they themselves may be in the wrong. So it is good that you post vids like these. Great source of education!
You could respond to many of these incidents with a Randy Pobst “vortex of danger” lecture.
With the white and black LMP3s I would say its on netcode. The black car starts to rotate without the white car having touched it.