Problem with Nomura story writing is, he starts with something interesting and then accidentally started a small fire and when he tried to put it out he started a gas leak, and then he went back to the fire to stop the gas leak, then dream drop happened and everything just stopped making sense
The reason why Square Enix keeps on giving Nomura free reign is because he's NOT a storyteller. Remember, video games get approved for development when the designers display a "proof-of-concept" video and a bunch of gameplay ideas to an entire board of executives within the upper management of the company. Nomura is naturally very good at this because he's a concept creator, which is WHY the trailers for his games always look amazing. Consequently, the upper management at SE keeps putting him in charge of various projects under the apparent assumption that he will know what he's doing because his ideas are so 'bold'. The problem is that Nomura--and many other SE employees such as Motomu Toriyama, Kazushige Nojima and Daisuke Watanabe--are all visionaries who can only come up with IDEAS, but they have seemingly no idea how to structure and present them in a way that works well. They can CREATE a story, but they have almost no fucking clue how to TELL one properly, because no decent script-writers and storyboard editors are there to say "No!" to things. This is why the FFXIII trilogy, FF Versus XIII / FFXV, The 3rd Birthday, and the entire Kingdom Hearts series are all disasters in terms of storytelling--because nobody at Square Enix ever knows when to say "STOP!", and the executives at Square Enix are completely oblivious to the fact that a creative visionary and a talented director are two entirely separate things. This is EXACTLY what happened with George Lucas and the Star Wars prequels.
@JonahtheMann Not only does Japanese business culture mandate that a project lead cannot be questioned by their subordinates, the stated business goal of Square Enix is to create properties they can then milk for all they are worth. Hence why while KH3 took years and years to come out there were so many midquels. Nomura fits perfectly into that goal if you think about it, he dazzles before the release date with promises of high concept stories and beautiful cutscenes, all of which are made with the explicit purpose of drumming up hype to sell copies. They don’t care at all if a good story is really told or not, they only care that whatever story is told is going to keep people coming back for more installments regardless of quality.
JonahtheMann Nomura wrote the twist of FF7, to say he’s not a story-teller is false considering his first role on a major final fantasy game was as a writer.
@@omarhasan1465 that all he really good at, twists, there were other writers on the ff7 team, if it was nomura alone, shepiroth would be talking about darkness every 5 seconds
The problem with Kingdom Hearts? It starts off with a very simple and straight forward story where the theme was a game that features anime, Final Fantasy, and Disney all in one setting. After that, it turns into a massive clusterfuck where you shouldn't even try to understand it or else you'll get a massive headache.
That's exactly what the video said. Tbh the stories not very complicated if you've played all the games. But there is a lot to play and lots of people don't have time for that.
Augustine Rivera I agree. Lol I can get it. If you care enough you’ll get it. So many people say this and I go along with it because I don’t want to argue with people or come across as aggressive.
I like KH1 for its story. But, I enjoy KH2 for its gameplay. BBS has almost as good gameplay as 2 and with a slightly better story. I've never played any of the other KH games besides CoM which I hated, because I hate the gameplay.
Blitzball Ace the only reason it was “simple” is cause its the starting ground😂the games arent complicated they just ask that you care enough to put a story together as apposed to being spoon fed information like a child, i admit the order of release was weird but if we’re going there, star wars did that way before kingdom hearts
You know how all of the games start with one of the main characters narrating a line that shows up on the screen? Kingdom Hearts 3 should open with that one, narrated by Goofy (who seems to be the only character in game who has a clue of what is going on anyway, for some reason xD)
Toothpaste im part of the fanbase that till this day, i dont know what the hell is even going on on every game or more than half the lore but still play the games
“Ain’t Sephiroth the one who’s supposed to be the dark part of Cloud’s heart?” Me (who hasn’t played Kingdom Hearts but has played FFVII): I’m sorry WHAT
Yeah, that's not their relationship at all. Not even close. Sephiroth was never a "dark part of Cloud." This plot doesn't even make sense within the KH lore. Since when can the darkness of a person take on a separate humanoid form, especially if that person is still living? When has that ever happened? The only instance of this is the relationship between Ventus and Vanitas in "Birth By Sleep." Even then, it wasn't a natural occurrence because Xehanort forced it to happen, and Ventus almost died because of it! Like, what the fuck, Nomura?
chimanruler15 I mean, I guess you could say that there’s elements of Sephiroth that are a dark reflection of Cloud, kinda? But it’s not a literal thing at all. And oh boy, learning it doesn’t even work much in the universe of Kingdom Hearts just makes it worse.
@@chimanruler15 This plot doesn't even make sense within the KH lore. Since when can the darkness of a person take on a separate humanoid form, especially if that person is still living? When has that ever happened?< its been many years so i may be wrong, sorry if i am, but i think in kindgom hearts 2 when you visit Yen Sid he states that, when the heart's host is someone really strong, his heartless and nobody keep their shape (and he showed the organization). Now as of Cloud and Sephiroth, i think T.Nomura had said some stuff on articles about it, (covering them in the Kingdom Hearts Universe no Final Fantasy) so if you want to understand his point of view maybe search for some of them. Just to express my opinion on the matter, Sephiroth really isn't cloud's dark part, but he is the darkest part of Cloud's memories and even in Advent Children, Cloud has to beat Sephiroth , (i think tifa said that this was his fight, when yuffie wanted to help) just to deal with that past to be able to smile again like the start of final fantasy 7 (cause he turned kinda emo on Advent Children).So if i think of it like that it doesn't really fit out of place and i really like having these versions of their characters cause i think these are the characters Nomura would want if he made their personalities as well in final fantasy! Its like 2 different versions and I love both!
It's pretty obvious now, as if it wasn't before, but Nomura is with no the plot as he goes. That's why fan theroies don't work, he doesn't give us enough clues because he isn't 100% sure what's gonna happen next either.
@@IamKoreanMan The real problem is that Nomura is just writing the story as he makes the games, that's why there aren't any spin-off games, they are all part of the story... It's not terrible but it's not a good way to do it, I've played them all as they came out and even back in the day when I beat kh2 on the ps2 I was waiting for a kh3 and dudes wrong when he says we didn't know it was coming, we actually did cuz it was either that or the store was over and it failed which obviously wasn't gonna happen.
And stupid. Had to button. Mash the Ursula fight to win. Donald and Goofy abandon Sora because Riku has the keyblade? Really? Riku throughout the game is just Sasuke, but worse
Well. Your criticisms are still valid post-KH3. Aaaand based on how KH3 ends they seem to have NO interest in hiring actual writers to fix any of this shit or turn the series in a more coherent direction.
@@Oracle1426 All of it. Kingdom hearts 3 was a letdown. All those characters personality changes and Disney worlds with no Ff characters with a freaking cactus keyblade is ridiculous.
Disney going to shrek/ice age direction. Making multiple spin off or sequels just for milking it to the death for money, merchs sales and satisfy their playerbase. Also disney and FF here rely their own nostalgia to fans. And lets see how long they can drag on these...
He’s just not a good writer. No matter what you say about the plot of Kingdom Hearts the games are still all around good and in no way objectively bad. He has never failed to deliver on a good experience and I still say that with three. Honestly if the series had better writing they would be much less criticism of the series.
Eric Hernandez the complexity of the kingdom hearts story and lore are why I love it, not sure why so many hate it. I find it satisfying when I make a connection between games and can be like “so THAT explains THIS!” Had it not been for the complexity of the story, I wouldn’t be so invested in it.
@@PeachIceCreamy It's not complexity people hate. It's the fact that it's all so poorly thought out; constantly retconning things that already happened, adding new rules and tripping over them, and worst of all spreading out the plot over so many separate games. It's not a cohesive narrative with a beginning, middle and end, it's a just a big mess they're making up as they go along
I hate those KH Fans who say "The story is simple! You guys are just idiots!!" And pretend that nothing is wrong with these games. I've loved Kingdom Hearts for over 12 years now, but this series is anything but flawless. The biggest problem in the series is backtracking and reuse. GOD so much gets recycled in these games. Recycled worlds, recycled story elements (milking that nobody/alternate persona cow real good, eh Nomura?) And even reusing bosses so much that they totally lose the intimidation they once had. (Thank god 2.8 was able to make Darkside creepy again) A complex story with lots of twists and loops doesn't automatically equal good. It's the quality of the surprises, not the quantity. What KH does well, it does very well, but any true fan can't sit here and act like this series is untouchable.
The story is simple. (When not counting Dream Drop Distance because....sigh..anyways). I didnt even have to play Chain of Memories in full when Kh2 came back. Cause it was for the GBA at the time, I got through Id say half of it and the gameplay pissed me off so much that I couldnt do it anymore so dropped it. The best Kingdom Hearts to me is 1 and 2. Everything else, I dont give a shit what no one says, feels like a side game that just needlessly added unnecessary questions to the story. Birth By Sleep was the start of it but it gave us a good thought about where certain things started.
Exactly! They've been using the same characters and the same worlds and the same concept for nearly 20 years at this point! Most RPG games would have every intalement takes place in it's own universe with a new cast and a new story. Kingdom Hearts doesn't do that. It butchers the usual format of the RPG genre and that's starting from a clean state with a whole new setting. Sora is basically the Ash Ketchum of Kingdom Hearts he's been the main character since day 1 and it gets tiresome playing as the same guy over and over again. BBS and 358 days are the only games where he's not the main character and that only 2 percent of the WHOLE franchise. Keep in mind that this is coming from a KH fan here. I loved the series ever since I played the first game. And because I cared about the series I want it to get better. I want it to get the help that it deserve to be in a better state than it is now.
Very late reply but I honestly agree that the fans who think everything is perfect are just blinded by nostalgia. KH is a very raw series which manages to capture and portray bonds and feelings in a meaningful way, but dear god this mess of a plot drives me insane. I love the characters, I love the gameplay, I love the worlds and the music, but a real fan can definitely admit that this plot needs to be cleaned up pronto and honestly at this point I'm only concerned for the cast rather than the haywire mess of a plot everyone is tangled into right now. I'm not interested in keeping track of who's Sora and who's Xehanort. I just want a simple story about the bonds and connections formed between a well-realized cast, but it's a shame it seems Nomura's only continuing on his path towards the incomprehensible plot he's built up. You hate to see it when your favorite cast of characters pretty much anywhere don't get the chance to act on their own or have much agency anymore when some bald elf man in a gothic dress is basically spending 90% of the plot dragging them around.
I consider myself a Kingdom Hearts fan, but I became a fan not playing any of the games. I slowly started playing the games, and became more of a fan, but I had a VERY hard time figuring out how the hell things went. It took me years to separate all the Xehanorts and the classifications of Heartless and Nobodies, how things were connected, and I still have no idea who the hell the back cover individuals are. I haven't played Union X either, so I'm far from caught up. As a KH fan, I can say with my back arched proudly that the story is one of the most garbage and shitty things about the games. What excel in mechanics fail in a good plot. KH1 was the same way for me, I don't really see how KH1 had a smooth and simple story. It wasn't COMPLICATED like 2, but it wasn't smooth either.
I consider myself a fan of Kingdom Hearts 2 basically In my opinion Kingdom Hearts is a complete mess, and most people who defend it are just nostalgia blinded
this is an old comment but nomura stated in an interview once that a heart is the memories that make up who you are. thats why if you lost youre heart you wouldnt exactly be dead but you’d be an empty husk like a nobody, and a heart of light like soras would be good because of those positive experiences while a heart of darkness like young xehanort is evil because of his experiences in dark road(all his fuckin friends died).
No, What happened with XV was out of his hands. His team was literally forced to help out with XIII development since they had so much trouble. He only had CG artitsts so the only thing he could do then were CG trailers. Then the higher-ups at Square put him on other projects causing him to be busy which led to him being taken off. And given how the Remake is looking now, you're completely wrong about 7 remake. Nomura is not a good writer but he is a good director, he just needs to not have the higher-ups interfere for the worse.
I really hope KH3 is presented as a game that doesn't require you to play all the spinoffs, because I felt the quality took a deep dive (ahem) every time they stayed away from the home consoles - except Birth by Sleep. But even if it makes no freakin' sense to me, I'll still play and enjoy KH3, even if I end up mocking its story all the way through. ...Ohhh, all right, let's be honest here: even if I understand every word, I'll be mocking KH3's story from start to finish, regardless. It's just that kind of series, and it's part of the fun. :)
@Michael Arufe yeah, that was completely on you. It's common sense not to jump into a random point of a series expecting to understand anything. The plot is only really egregiously incomprehensible to people who haven't played the prior games.
@@robertwesley7332 but this is why is a bad story writing. I mean look at yakuza series. They all started in yakuza 0 but if you start the story from any part later to the game (yakuza has 7 main games in kiryu saga) the story of each game hold off on their own. They retold at first and even without bother viewing their origins story, the sequels have their own problems and enemies that not really relied heavily to sequel before to be make sense. Each game can hold by themselves. Plus they dont rely heavy to nostalgia like KH. KH had biggest problem to start like merging FF and Disneys characters that each of them need licensing and not betray any expectations fanbase have for each franchises licensed. If KH not rely to disney and FF characters but making their own "form" like 3 first protsgonist. Maybe the story could be better. Now theres a problem licensing to FF characters and they are completely dissapears from KH universe in 3rd game. Plus if disney not forcing KH make multiple "spin off" at sony "spin off" console exclusive like psp and vita, KH3 wont suffer much from this. KH is doomed since KH2 to KH3 development. KH4 if there is one, should end the series..
@@Nahan_Boker94 any fault on the story has already been established over eight years in advance. It's bad, but it's not something you can't understand in the slightest unless you haven't played the other games which was my initial point. How is having a connected story bad writing? How is it objectively inferior to anthology games? DMC isn't bad just because it goes off the prequel's story. MGS isn't bad just because the games are connected. I don't even understand your point, really. There are tons more beloved series' with games that have a synonymous story. Bad stories aren't bad because they're lengthy. They're bad because they're bad. Kingdom Hearts was never really about the story anyway. It sucks, so that's why we have the gameplay to lean on majority of the time. Which one is it? Does it rely on FF characters or does it "betray any expectations fanbase have for any franchise licensed"? You can't have it both ways. How does it even *rely* on FF characters in the slightest? Cloud only appears in Olympus and in the credits, and Leon, Aerith, and Yuffie are also in one world. The entire concept is literally "Disney as Anime", not "Disney and Final Fantasy". It's not like the series suddenly decided to start adding Disney characters in it on a whim. That's always just been the main gimmick. Since when was licensing on Square's end an issue? The game's advertised as a Square Enix game. They won't just suddenly lose the rights to their own characters as you confusingly imply. Besides, Leon, Yuffie, Aerith, and Cid are all in Re:Mind anyway. You're either stupid or living under a rock if you think everyone'll just decide to stop eating up Kingdom Hearts content. A large majority of the fanbase still exist and even those who have not been as enthusiastic about it will still probably buy it. Just look at Melody of Memory. It'll be a long time from now before the series will ever be doomed.
@@robertwesley7332 I'm a big fan of kingdom hearts but I'll say people need to do research before jumping into the middle of the series plus Disney owns kingdom hearts so they have the biggest say
I always saw Nomura's interpretation of hearts, souls and bodies being like a computer. The body is the hardware, the tangible parts that make up the person, and the soul is the electricity that powers the computer, and the heart is the software the computer uses. This is actually supported by Kingdom Hearts 1, when Kairi is comatose. Her body is still alive, but her heart is gone. She's basically a computer that turns on but has no software to run.
My 2 least favorite inevitable comments are "Get ready for the fanboys defending the game hurr durr", and "Let me tell you why your wrong in 30 paragraphs".
Bastion #69 Time to throw a curveball. let me tell you why you're wrong in 29 paragraphs! ( I was originally going to add "in german" and copy/paste the first 29 paragraphs of mien kampf but I'm too lazy to.)
It may not be “god like” but no other game in the series was as popular, or understandable. In comparison to the other games - I guess from a writing perspective, it was the most understandable and simply enjoyable.
It is scary how accurate this video became once the game actually was released because I played KO3 and was wondering why I thought the game was bad then I find this video and I'm like wow
Joke's on you, it came out and it has no Final Fantasy in it at all except for the moogle shops. Lmao. And I won't even talk about what a joke the plot was..or how only 15% of the game actually had plot that wasn't a disney world, or how they built Kairi up to be a keyblade wielder and then just used her as a set piece or damsel in distress the entire game....etc etc
And how Xehanort and Saix gets redeemed (somehow) despite all they did, for no apparent reason, and how most characters expect Sora feel like an afterthought
@@TheHeroRobertELee No there is NOT a ridiculous amount of cutscenes, there could be even more cutscenes, that is NOT a problem, hate people who cant sit their asses for some time to watch cutscenes.
The main point that hurts the game is that it relies on you to know everything outside the games. Chain of memories, and everything in the films. Whenever I visit a world, I hope to get development on the plot. Instead, they take out WAY too much and I'd be lost without knowing about it. Why should I care about these worlds? Each world only had 3 characters overwhelmed with heatless. Idk.
thats because the spin off are rather inportant like people say you just dont label things as 1 2 and 3 cause by then your missing a whole chunk of the series
@@scarletrose8766 ...which is a really stupid way of establishing a lore. Up until the compilations, people had to get every single main and side game on multiple consoles just to follow the story. There is no reason for that.
chimanruler15 I'm not a game dev. So can't say that its easy to have the lore be all at one console then again that might be easier thou I dunno why they went everywhere with thier game so yeah there's that Then KH is already all over The place so there's that maybe they saw how it affected thier game and dunno how to fix the mess so they compile stuff into a more compiled console game I suppose
chimanruler15 Well, there is. MONEY! If you haven't noticed. The honest Trailer from the original you Tube channel for kingdom hearts, had been banned, ever since KH3 released.
He said Kingdom Hearts past the first game is bad. Did you even watch the video? Or are you one of those on that think the series is bad because it's over your head? It's not this series fault that people are too uneducated to understand.
No. He said the writing was bad. He actually said in the video he enjoys KH2 more now. At 5:13, I'll even give you a timestamp. Did you even watch the video? The entire series is light vs darkness, plus some fun relationships with some wacky characters sometimes. The game story itself has never been hard to understand. The story is "confusing" because they keep tacking more and more nonsense onto a plot that's fairly basic. "Two opposing forces are fighting each other" is all there is to it. Kingdom Heart's problem is that it unnecessarily tried to explain that story in the most over the top way they can manage. "Overly complicated" and "hard to understand" are not synonyms. Ad hominem isn't going to win you that many arguments. Maybe try to actually tackle arguments instead of picking out one little thing to argue against (which wasn't correct on your end anyway) and then spouting a bunch of bullshit?
Nah. Time travel stories aren't convoluted, they're complicated. You can't make an elaborate Time Travel story without making some things go crazy after a few trips. And that's the nature of time travel. Weird stuff happens because of how time works.
Sora getting the keyblade WAS an accident, it was supposed to go to Riku but he chose the darkness so the keyblade went to sora. At least I’m pretty sure that’s how it went
As a "hardcore fan" of the series who has played every single game on their respective consoles when the released, and bought 2.8, and plans on buying the bundle in March, you brought up some good points. The story has gotten messier, and the games haven't really been great since 2 (kinda upset how you didn't mention how kingdom hearts 2 gameplay is an actual work of art and instead just talked about the worse story but w/e), I think you're being a bit too harsh however. I didn't mind the spinoff games (for the most part, Re:coded was hot garbage). From what I see I personally think KH3 will come along smoothly and release around late 2018, if not that then early to mid 2019 as long as we don't hear otherwise in the future, which, to be fair, wouldn't surprise me if we did hear some bad news but as of now its looking good.
the story is incredibly convoluted, nobody who even remotely thinks about it is denying that, but its not as hard to understand as some people make it out to be, I will completely agree the story went every direction imaginable after 2, but I will not agree that its as bad as people say.
It's pretty much the most confusing hard to understand story there is even kh2. I've played all the games multiple times except for DDD which I just started and I still have trouble grasping how it all comes together. And that's partly why KH is still my favourite game of all time. Because it was simple and clean ^^ KH2 is still a great game and I loved it but there are so many new characters and concepts introduced that it ultimately feels rushed. Ansem not being the real Ansem but actually being Xehanort's heartless but he's not the real Xehanort he's terra possessed by the original (?as far as we know) Xehanort... It's like the series has a problem introducing new antagonists and wants them ALL to be the same dude because it's supposed to blow our minds. But as long as the conclusion of this Xehanort saga resolves everything in a satisfying way kh3, it'll be great. They can finally move on and we won't have to wait another 10 years for kh4
+Rebecca You say KH is the most confusing story ever when Zelda and MGS exists. Stop over exaggerating. The story is not that hard to understand. There's just too much stuff to remember and think about.
This was hilarious, and I'm a long-term fan. Thanks for reminiscing about the magic of the first game. Something I never hear anyone bring up is how Final Fantasy XV completely fucked up the future of KH. Back when it was Versus XIII, it was being made by the original Kingdom Hearts team, composer, and director. This game stole the golden opportunity for Kingdom Hearts III to come out on PS3, probably five years after KH2 by the latest. The development hell of Versus XIII forced Nomura to come up with all these side games and remakes of side games, each one over-complicating the overall plot just to justify their own existence. I blame FF XV, the former president of Square-Enix, and Nomura's mismanagement for the alienating state KH is in right now.
Typical reaction of blaming the failure of something you like on something else. Hate to break it to you but the plot was already becoming convoluted and absurd with KH2. It's the reason why KH2 is my favorite though, because I never gave 2 shits about KH's plot. Gameplay wise, 2's the best to me. IF I do end up playing KH3, I still won't give a crap about the plot there either.
kh2 "convolution" lv is bearable and makes up for some pretty interesting twists. i absolutely LOVE what they did with Roxas and the nobodies, and how the Organization XIII interacts with Sora for those reasons. the one thing that stick to me is the whole Ansem; Xemnahorth (i dont even know by this point), but to me that only happenned because of sloppy dialog (not even bad, just sloppy). what i can agree is the plot got convoluted as hell with the other games. i dont know exactly how the story Works because i havent played them yet, but i hope is not as bad as it sounds
I personally like the whole sha-bang. I could follow the story EASY, gameplay was a little weird in dreamdrop and memories, but all of it, flaws included, still shits over a lot of other games i've seen. My only real worry is that despite my feelings to this series and square, i think this guy making the video nailed it perfectly with the problems. They're getting sloppy, ESPECIALLY with a guy who hasn't even played the FF games being the one to handle their developement. Lightning and/or noctis needs to be in the next game. Hell, serah an noel having alternate reality travelling capabilities would actually fit perfectly into these games. Aaaaand yeah i've heard the argument that KH is supposed to be its own kind of universe, but some of these characters, like moogles, chocobos, and most summons etc. Fit in to ANY square enix game by now because ANY square fan eould apprdciate yhem an recognize them for what they are. That's the kind of power square has with theirvloyalists nowadays. They need to learn to use it more
Fuck Lightning. Bitch has had enough games as it is and is legitimately more boring than early-game Cloud or Squall throughout everything she has ever done. KH is completely removed from the FF universe, it's all just "oh hey cool" cameos. You said yourself that it's just character recognition, which is why Cloud and Sephi are "ZOMFG ETERNAL RIVALS, HALVES OF THE SAME COIN" bullshit; it's just because they're recognizable favorites and who gives a fuck why they're there? No one, that's who. KH =/= FF, plain and simple.
Your wrong about FF XV dude, back when XIII was being developed the Kingdom Hearts team didn't get the resources they needed because of FF XIII and by the time that game was finish the game engine they had to use wasn't up to scratch, hence FF XV development hell. Tetsuya had to ask for permission to build a new engine just to get the game up and running before it was handed off to the FF XIII director, all of this kept delaying Kingdom Hearts 3 because the tech wasn't there and they had a lot of plot to work through.
Thanks for letting me know. I've started to hate KH2 because it's just 12+ hours of cutscenes of different worlds that contribute absolutely nothing to the story and you can only do other characters' chores to unlock these gates for the sake of padding out the time. Other than being technically obligated to let you go deeper into the game's progress, the alternate worlds are pointless. How is helping Simba get back on his feet after he doubts his purpose going to help? How is Ariel finding true love going to advance anything? The ideal way to mix alternate worlds and the main plot together is to make the chores based on the main antagonists. Like what if someone was captured by them? What if someone's stuff got stolen by the bad guys? What if on the off chance a world has an antagonist with the potential of wanting to reform but they're found injured so for the purpose of the story you've gotta do chores that help him out in exchange for information?
@@Kodachi112 I see your point. I agree with it, just understand of course that... disney runs this whole series. Their representatives define what this game is allowed to be. The director of the series is kind of a hack, and that's why he works well (relatively speaking) under the strictures that Disney places upon the entire production of this game. It's ALL m$rchandising, yo. Have to say though, comat in these games can be genuinely fun! Skip boring scenes and watch the ones with characters you like. It's not a worthless series, only a dissapointing one.
@@Kodachi112 I've pretty much stopped caring about the KH series after KH2 and BBS. As off the rails and filler filled the story for KH2 is and Sora acting like an asshole. I still felt that the ending of 2 was closure enough. All of the main protagonists were reunited finally and without the cliffhanger after credits ending, the series could have ended there! So Kh2 doesn't anger me too much with its flippant story because it provides closure for most characters. However KH3 from what I've heard just ends with more cliffhangers to lead into more convoluted story telling. Yeh!
@MisAnthro Pony I think it was actually a bit more, but besides that there was way more gameplay than cutscene compared to average to the average game time. Plus there's also the post game in KH2 Final Mix.
Hardcore fans, like myself, do 1 of 2 things Option 1: ignore the convoluted storyline and plot holes and just play the games because they are fun Option 2(sadly this is what i did): Do several days worth of mental gymnastics to figure out the story line and minimize or eliminate plot holes
of you're a hardcore fan, you cant ignore flaws and shortcoming. you're too invested in the game to not care. casuals will not care and move past flaws.
Option 2 is what makes the series so enjoyable imo you have like a whole community just piece together every bit of story they can from all the games and when you figure some shit out it’s like the greatest feeling ever lol on top of the gameplay just being fucking amazing.. I feel most casual fan look past that fact but hardcore fans love the deep dive into sorting everything out
I started playing KH when I was 12. When KH2 came out my friends and I joked that we'd be in college by the time 3 came out. ....We're approaching our 30s now! HELL HALEY JOEL OSMENT IS A BIG BURLY MAN NOW!!! But yeah Nomura is a shit writer as it was never his passion so the fact that Kitase, VII's original director, -forced- "surprised" Nomura as director of VII was red flag #1.
Honestly.... watching this after your review on KH3 and my disappointment of the game as a whole. Tetsu should just draw and that it. He should never, ever write or direct a game. He just plainly sucks.
I'd say you're wrong given how the Final Fantasy 7 Remake looks. He's never failed to deliver on directing before on a game so he's just not that good at writing. Plus I enjoyed Kingdom Hearts 3 a lot. Yeah it had its problems but the overall experience was amazing for me which is what matters most. (Though I'll never like the blatant set up for future games)
Agreed. I like his designs, I like his flashy particle effects, but listening to those crappy dialogues is really unbearable. After playing the final boss in KH2, I was convinced that he really knew what I loved. I was wrong.
@@erichernandez1958 The FFVII Remake looking good is entirely because Nomura is just recreating an already established story by other people. He's just there to make it look pretty and epic which is what he's good at but the heart of what makes FFVII, and by extension its remake, appealing is all due to other people like Sakaguchi, Kitase, and Nojima who understand how to build a world, establish characters, and tell a proper story. On the original project Nomura was only responsible for the limit break animation concepts and character designs while Kitase directed shit, Sakaguchi gave the base plot synopsis, and Nojima wrote most of the remaining story and character dialogue. If you want to see what FFVII looks like without those people involved then look no further than Advent Children and how bland and uninspired it feels compared to FFVII. Furthemore, just take a look at how the FF characters are butchered in Kingdom Hearts along with the Disney characters. Trust me when I say that the FFVII Remake looking good has nothing to do with Nomura. Hell I wouldn't be surprised if it's Kitase and Nojima doing all of the heavy lifting considering Kitase is always the one doing all the press talks for the project. Nomura feels like nothing more than a false figurehead just for his name cuz Square probably knows Nomura fanboys will eat up anything with his name on it and it's a good tactic to draw in extra customers.
"Make kh3 accessible" Nomura: Lets release an hd collection on ps4. Team: Ok sounds good. Nomura: And kh3 on ps4. Team: Alright. Nomura: But we won't release the collection on xbox one so no one understands the games. Team: Why would we ev- Nomura: Release kh3 on xbox one. Team: ?!?!?!?!?
‘Hey boss, uh, this carriage thing...I think we need, uh, horses or something to get it to move first’ ‘Nonsense, once everyone sees how amazing our carriages are, they’ll be lining up to buy them. That’s when we add the horses, and corner the market!!’ *cricket chirps*
It's not as hard to follow as a lot of people like to claim. People who say it's confusing are usually the people who only played 1 and 2 and got the rest of their info from the internet.
I can see where that's coming from, but I was one of the dudes who already had Nintendo handhelds on principle and a PSP because they were cheap as hell so I never had an issue. I totally agree that the remixes made everything WAY more accessible, though. All that content on one platform? UMPH, sexytimes.
A very good break down. However, I feel that you missed the reason why people want Kingdom Hearts 3 to come out. It is mostly because we want a final closure to this epic yet messed up plot and begin a new saga from scratch. I believe Nomura realized his faults already which is why he is trying to create as big a hype as possible before closing the chapter once and for all. Though hard to notice at first, it is evident that the characters are being sort of being prepped to be untangled from the mess as it's implied in the end of DDD. Square's effort to connect the final dots and close previous loopholes is evident in 0.2 too.
KH: Nice, simple story KH Chain of Memories: Eh, it's alright, interesting story ideas. KH2: Love the gameplay, ZERO clue what's going on. Everything further: What
@@nn8009 I agree, but they are called SIDE games for a reason. In KH, these "side" games are a *big* part of the main story. Most people are gonna take a look at Kingdom Hearts 1-3 and think "Oh, I should play these games in numerical order!" and then get fucked when they realize that they HAVE to play all the "side" games in order to understand the story.
@@ggs27 But people are going to assume that they're side games. Anyone from the outside looking in is going to see Kingdom Hearts 1, 2, and 3, and then all these other KH games with all these random names and make the logical assumption that they're just side games. KH's naming scheme is as much of a clusterfuck as the games' actual plot. This is why other long running series try to keep their naming consistent.
I will say one more thing. I agree that it's a damn disgrace that Final Fantasy characters are not given stories or arcs in Kingdom Hearts like the Disney characters get, especially FF9. Imagine the potential they wasted, they could have had Vivi and other black mages be a form of Heartless that gain conciousness (they literally look just like Heartless) kind of like Sora did. Zidane or the genomes could have been Nobodies, since they are also just empty vesels without souls. I'm tired of Squall and Cloud. I want to see Zidane crack jokes and hit on Kairi. Enough of Sephiroth, let me fight Kuj.... eh let's go with Beatrix. That would be cool.
That is, assuming we get FINAL FANTASY characters, like ever lol, the sad truth is... you're not tired of Cloud fighting Sephiroth, you're tired of Belladona Blake fighting Adam Taurus (RWBY) PRETENDING to be Cloud and Sephiroth. That's another problem with Nomura, he doesn't bring FF characters to KH, he hires random teens to cosplay chars he (Nomura) knows nothing about. I would rather recommend you playing ANY of the Dissidia titles (ok, maybe not NT, haven't gotten to that one yet), fanfiction-y? YES! In character? ALSO YES!
I'm still gonna be hyped as shit for KH3 regardless, but I see your problem. It's honestly kind of a miracle this franchise is still going as strong as it is when it's known for every game becoming more and more convoluted in terms of lore, thus making it borderline impossible to understand what's going on unless you've played all 10 or so games prior. I'll admit though, I have a lot of nostalgia for the series, so I'm pretty biased when it comes to the plot. There's also a sense of wanting to find out the backstory and inner workings of everything in this series that I know most people probably don't care about, but I love seeing. What I think the plot needs most if fucking closure. Even for a "hardcore fan" like me, this stream of constant plot-related blue-balling is getting a bit ridiculous.
HEHEHE I AM A SUPAHSTAR VOICE [Curgly Croog] ... do you know how stupid you sound. "Near impossible unless you played all 10" how many series do you know where you can skip entries and know what's happening seamlessly? That's a sign of stupidly simplistic storytelling if I've ever heard one.
@@zacharyjohnson7419 Imagine the franchise ends with the MCs ensuring it never happened. Like they go back in time and kill the Master of Masters or something
my big issue with this video... is that it doesn't really say anything. I have very real issues with KH's plot. But you don't really bring up any. You make a synopsis of KH1, then a shorter synopsis of KH2 then go off the rails discussing that Nomura is a character designer and his FF characters aren't how they are in the games. It's just a whole lot of nothing.
The overarching point that he's trying to make is that Kingdom Hearts is messy. The lore, plot and back history are confusing; the characters, which I really agree with, don't interact like normal people which makes the dialogue and fluidity of scenes really really awkward. You really don't get immersed with the characters as much you could have in kh1 and in general you lose a lot of character in the other games, with an exception to bbs in my opinion.
I also want them to just reboot the story. It's so god damn dumb. I wish the game would take the same route as Final Fantasy where each game is a self-contained story mostly unrelated to the other games except for a few reoccurring traits.
I also want a reboot after experiencing KH3. Xehanort should have succeeded, used Kingdom hearts and nuked their stupid plot and the useless story they created with it. Then get new writers and fix this mess.
Felt like there was a schism between groups when making KH2. Certain aspects made it seem like some writers/developers wanted to make it distinct from KH1, like same setting and principles, but with different characters and a bit of overlap. Roxas and the Twilight gang (with Seifer and his goons) seemed like a fun setup, like they might embark on their own adventures as rivals. The Disney worlds felt empty, simply replaying their movie with no attempt to tie the characters to the greater plot, and the sudden glut of OCs with no major connection to Sora or the Disney characters. Imagine if Roxas wasn’t Sora’s Nobody/Ven w/ amnesia, etc. but was just a regular kid that could use a keyblade. He and his friends get dragged into adventure due to the Nobodies going around trying to start shit with the new Disney Villains (using the new Disney Worlds) while Seifer and his crew act as rivals that alternate between allies and enemies. Insert new FF characters with occasional references to the events of KH1, and a small cameo here and there, and I think it’d be a fun standalone title.
@Duckalie now??This dude(who made the video) is literally the only person I've ever heard that didn't like KH2...KH2 has been beloved since it came out,and fans saying its the best of the series are definitely nothing new
I have to kick off by saying that I do prefer Kingdom Hearts as a more complicated series and enjoy the complex narrative more than I do the simple one of KH1, though I do love both for different reasons. And yet I think there are some unfair biases being applied here. For one, the scene you showed from 0.2 in contrast to how "simple" and "relatable" the first game was, is a cutscene set directly during the events of that same game, explaining a specific event from that game from a new angle. It's not inconsistant with the story presented to us in KH1, it's just a scene where a character comes out and says what they're actually doing instead of just doing it and leaving you to fill the blanks. The example you gave is actually an example of the series making the story easier to understand while the original game left things too vague to completely enjoy what was going on. Don't believe me? Then be honest with me. Did you have any idea what was going on in the final cutscene of the game? Did you know what Kingdom Hearts was? Did you know why the door had to be closed? Did you know why Mickey and Riku had to stay on one side of it? At all? I love the game to pieces, but even after multiple viewings of that cutscene, I wouldn't have been able to tell you what was going on until it was later explained to me. At the very least, nobody will have followed the events on their first playthrough. For another, you complain about unnatural dialogue from KH2 onwards and that nobody talks like a real person. No cutscene in Kingdom Hearts has more unnatural writing and nonsense pacing than the scene where Sora meets Riku for the first time since the islands in Traverse Town in KH1. That entire scene just jumps from one point of interest to the next with no transition and no effective reaction or explanation the people ought to do so within a conversation. While smaller, KH1 is full of moments like that. It's like there are entire lines missing from important conversations. The dialogue may be simpler, but that is as much a disadvantage as it is an advantage a lot of the time. People need to be free to say what needs to be said and KH1 just doesn't have that freedom. When it comes to Tetsuya Nomura, I can't pretend to be an expert in the infrastructure of Square Enix, nor will I claim to be Tetsuya Nomura's biggest advocate. But it is alarming how much of your points regarding him as a designer, director, writer and even as a person are complete hearsay and guesswork. I'm sorry and I know you sort of acknowledge this, but a lot of those accusations about his shortcomings, feats and failures are either unproven claims or just veiled insults. It's theoretical supposition at best and a prejudiced opinionated assault on his character at worst. You're blaming him without any real evidence that shows he's to blame, other than subjects that people can rightfully disagree with you on. Even admitting that you don't know for sure after saying all that comes across as you giving yourself a security blanket after doing the damage already, like you're trying to cover yourself from accusations of slander while still giving people the impression that Nomura is to blame anyway. I don't find those assertations to be fair. Those are my biggest issues. But to say just a few more words in defence of the KH series, the story isn't as confusing or as bad as people make it out to be. The details definitely get cloudy as there's just so much to keep up with after every game, but the stuff that you actually _need_ to keep up with - the core plot, if you will - is straightforward enough to follow. Here's a summary of KH3's plot in one sentence: A group of friends set out to rescue some allies from terrible fates while also fighting to save the universe from the threat of a villainous mastermind. That's the plot in a nutshell. Explaining it further obviously takes more time and the extent of the details to cover are a lot, but that's true of any story and as I said, understanding all of it is not necessary. Even bearing that in mind, there are plenty of people who do like the story as it is (myself included, obviously, but I promise I'm not biased when I say that) and will gladly argue that the characters are well-written at present. So it's not completely fair of you to call the story bad when that's not a definitive fact nor is it even a majority opinion. (Likewise, making a show of excluding Mass Effect 3 and Life is Strange from your well-written games list was just mean.)
Xackadee sora became a progressively worse, unrelatable character with kh2, and hes worse in ddd. We havent gotten any good char development for sora since CoM unfortunately. KH definitely has writing issues and too many plotholes, well written my ass. Back in the day it was simple but deep and interesting. Now the story is convoluted garbage with badly written characters like terra and ventus, and uninteresting villains and plot because there is no mystery and intrigue to the series anymore.
I starterd playing Kingdom Hearts at age 7-8,planned to buy a ps3 around age 12 to play KH3... Now I am a lawyer,married,a father and still waiting for KH3.
Bruh father of two at 22? Well shit, what am I doing with my life. Also you had KH1, KHCoM, KH2, KH 358/2, KH BBS, KH Re:Coded, and KH DDD. Plenty of KH to play between the years
Wtf? How old are you. There’s no way you’re a lawyer at age 22. Maybe if you were born in the 1990 and you’re 28 years old and yeah I would believe you.
Personally, I think the biggest problem with the story of the games is that it tries too hard to be complex and ends up being convoluted instead. Like, the writers really wanted everything to be connected as some kind of surprise twist - which hurt plot points that I think could have been really interesting on their own. Take Namine, for example. Is there a reason she had to be a Nobody with Kairi's heart and Sora's body, or whatever she is? I don't think so, other than the writers wanted to make her "relevant." She could just as easily have been her own new character with special memory powers just because, and it would have made just as much (if not more) sense that whatever she actually is, story-wise. There are some pieces of the writing that I find genuinely engaging. Aqua's sacrifice at the end of BBS made me sad. I liked that part of the story. What becomes frustrating is the writers refuse to treat any plot elements as separate, and now Aqua, Terra, and Ventus have all magically managed to not age so they can appear in KH3, despite their game taking place a whole 10 years earlier. And of course the foretellers show up at some point, even though their story takes place EVEN FURTHER BACK, because why not? Is the Master of Masters secretly Sora's dad, or a previous incarnation of Sora, or both?? Probably, at the rate things are going! So yeah. I feel like the story would fare a lot better if the writers recognized that events can be related without being intrinsically connected to everything that is happening at all times.
It's weird to say kh2 "messed stuff up" since kh2 closed everything. The series could have ended at kh1 OR kh2. It was BBS 358 and DDD that really added the crazy But I guess that's just my opinion.
1 would've been a terrible place to end off, but I agree with you on 2 even though I love the sequels. Nomura is just becoming so damn senile with all the inconsistencies and shitty and extremely unnecessarily complex plot just for the sake of being complicated even though a lot of it makes no sense and as if they're just randomly throwing things in
30 people agree with you, I like to imagine all the extra history after KH2 (in release order) is just an alternative timeline where everything became far more messy
Here's the thing. What Kingdom Hearts 3 NEEDS to do is tie up all loose plot threads worth tying up. It's "supposed" to be the end of the Xehanort Saga (A.K.A. the Dark Seeker Saga) and thus, should wrap up everything so there can be a clean slate going forwards. Of course I don't have high hopes for this as Nomura has basically stated that he just makes stuff up as he goes along.
if your video game saga spans almost 200 hours of gameplay, and some 9 games, maybe just maybe not all the plot threads are going to be neatly summed up in a single game. trash it all go back to basics.
+geneirai I don't know, KH3 seems (emphasis on seems) like its gonna have a clear plot thread. They find 7 people to fight off 13 versions of the same guy, hopefully they do it so that he doesn't succeed in getting his mcguffin that can set off a second apocalyptic war, either they win or he wins. There. literally the only unresolved plot threads from the previous games are "lol where did Riku get a keyblade for Kairi" and "WHATS IN LUXUS BOX? PORN??"
I can think of a lot more questions then that. But in the grand scheme of things, they are rather minor. For some questions, How does Xehanort and Eraquis related and how did they became what they are? How did Terra and Aqua join as Eraquis' pupils. What was the purpose of the Foretellers now? Are they related to the new main cast now? What is Kingdom Hearts? Why is it so cherished? And why did so many bad guys wanted it so bad? Or what is even inside Kingdom Hearts? Who is Kairi's grandmother? What are the fates of Roxas, Xion, Namine, that are still residing in Sora's Heart? Those are just some off the top of my head.
Jacob FoxFires964 _(autistic reply incoming)(but that's how uncessarily convoluted this series is)_ *"How does Xehanort and Eraqus related and how did they became what they are? "* *"How did Terra and Aqua join as Eraquis' pupils?"* That's not information crucial to the plot. That could potential for new stories (whether it be games or other media) but that's it; all that matters is that Xehanort and his 13 Darknesses are the antagonists, while Eraqus' heart is the reason Terra doesn't get completely subsumed by Xehanort. Birth by Sleep's story still works even if it doesn't disclose the pasts of Terra and Aqua before becoming Keyblade wielders, or if they don't go too indepth of Eraqus' and Xehanort's years as pupils. *"What was the purpose of the Foretellers now?"* We do know Master of Masters did foresaw the Keyblade War, and more or less ensured that it would happen by introducing the necessary elements (conflict between the Foretellers). We don't know why he did so; but it's entirely possible he had the same kind of fatalistic attitude towards the timeline as Young Xehanort does as evidenced by his dialogue. *"What is Kingdom Hearts? Why is it so cherished? And why did so many bad guys wanted it so bad?"* You...do realize that this has already been answered in previous games? Multiple times in fact. It's the unified Heart of everything; worlds, people etc. (explicitly disclosed in Birth by Sleep, and in Nomura's interviews) and is the source of Light.(BBS again, 3D, hell even the fucking first game...) It's pretty obvious why people would want it for themselves. Artificially gathering hearts into one place could create facsimiles of the real Kingdom Hearts (either from Worlds Hearts in KH1, or People's Hearts in days-KH2) It should be clarified that Xehanort doesn't want Kingdom Hearts. He wants to start a second war over the appearance of Kingdom Hearts that would be fought by whatever Keyblade Wielders are left in The World, but he needs it to appear in the first place. Ergo, his plan to recreate the X-Blade. *"Who is Kairi's grandmother?"* Is that really a question that needs to be asked, or answered? Not every character's gonna have a deep backstory entrenched in Kingdom Hearts' lore who has relevance to the plot (like Sora's mom) What, is the possibility that she's just a random denizen of Radiant Garden, who heard a version of the Keyblade War corrupted into a mythic fairy tale over many generations of oral tradition too mundane?? *"What are the fates of Roxas, Xion, Namine, that are still residing in Sora's Heart?"* Um, that's more or less one of the plot threads of KH3, if 3D is any indication (or the entire handheld games really). And it could tie into the fact that they need to gather 7 lights to counter Xehanort's 13 darknesses.
You don’t need to rip into him because of his games...... You need to rip into him because of that GOD DAMN HAIRCUT, HE REALLY TRYING TO BECOME AN ANIME CHARACTER
Maybe Nomura really has to quit.I just keep waiting and keep accepting all this crap because of my loyalty to the franchise. It´s all just leaving out important information on purpose to keep you interested. It´s LITERALLY getting old. Like how many years am I supposed to wait for a complete story?
Oh man,this shit is so true. Good explanation. I know the die-hard KH fans will defend the story like it's the most well written or easily understandable shit, but it's not. I like Kingdom Hearts, I really do, when Simple and Clean rocks in, I get hyped. But the story is like fragments of different puzzles yet they still forcefully try and connect them to make a picture. You have to admit this story is a fucking mess, stop being blinded by fanboyism and nostalgia.
You can just tell the story wasn't planned from the beginning and they've just been adding to it as they go along. That being said, this is my favorite video game franchise and I can understand the story very well presently. I can, however, understand why people have so many issues with it as it's very convoluted and the switch between consoles over the years is just not okay in my eyes.
+Pythagoras I don't see what's wrong with the fact that Nomura didn't plan out the entirety of the story arc beforehand. Why do you think KH1 had such a simple story? They were still testing things out given the questionable premise of a collab with Disney and FF. They had no idea it would be a hit, and many people thought it would be a failure around the time KH1 was announced. Of course, there are flaws within the story, but THAT'S the problem. HOW it was written, not when it was planned.
Nah, I'm still a fan of the series but even then I have to accept the story makes no sense and keeps adding stuff for sequels and too many games being released for too many consoles sucks. It's good that they made the HD ReMixes but still...
I'm not saying KH has the best story in the world, but if you play all the games it all connect together for me at least (mostly). Tetsuya nomura also isn't going to make the final fantasy characters their complicated selves from their own games, KH isn't about them.
Nowhere does it say that KH is a FF x Disney game, Kingdom Hearts is Kingdom Hearts. Squarenix is a video game company that created the FF series and creates KH games for Disney because KH is copyrighted to Disney as they own Kingdom Hearts. Square owns the FF characters and any other characters they decide to toss in that belong to them, they have put other characters from another series they own such as ''The world Ends with you''. This proves its just square putting characters they own into KH but not for serious reasons.
Yes, but final fantasy is still a part of the game along disney and they just had so much potential with all the characters and worlds and they cinda messd up and got the characters wrong, again just alot of wasted potential.
It's funny because i thought KHIII was supposed to be the closure to "The Seeker of Darkness Saga" (AKA Xehanort's) and now we've got Dark Road. And $#!t keeps complicating.
All you’ve told me is that you prefer simple not super in depth stories. That’s your opinion, I get that. But this is Tetsuya Nomura we’re talking about here. He doesn’t do simple, not taking it self too seriously, stories.
The fact that there's so much going on with the plot is to a big extent the reason why people who are hardcore fans like Kingdom Hearts so much; and it's done this way on purpose. Nomura wants you to have questions, he wants you to speculate, and honestly I like that a lot; with a caveat of course. Kingdom hearts III needs to answer ALL questions we have about the Xehanort saga (all the previous games). If that happens, everything you say in this video is wrong. If it doesn't everything you're saying is 100% right. Also, there are pretty much no "spinoffs" in this series. That's why you can't understand the beginning of KH2 without having played Chain of Memories, or at least having researched what it was about. Pretty much all games in this series are cannon.
VirgateSpy I feel like people who see 2.8 and how cool Aqua looks and everything will want to go back and try to get into it by playing 1.5 + 2.5 ...2.8 is obviously not for newcomers, but I don't get why it should be...this is a series of games with a continuous story line. this isn't like Grand theft Auto or call of duty
Kostas1601 That's why KH2 failed with me. I played the first game off a whim and was amazed and decided I will be waiting for part 2 then they came out with another game.... but it wasn't for the ps2. It was for the handheld--immediately became disinterested. I wasn't trying to buy an entire new restaurant (smaller console) just so I could have another slice of pizza.
People call the other games "spin offs" because the gameplay is no longer like it was in the first game. They call KH2 part of the "main game" because the gameplay returns to what it was like in 1 and because it also came out on playstation just like the first game. I am not making this up these are actual "reasons" I found from the kind of people mentioned in this video "i'm not going to play any of the spin offs till kh3".
Yeah, I mean, I totally understand. You don't have the console so you can't play the game, of course you're going to get disinterested. To be honest I don't get irritated by things like that since I never had a PS2 to begin with. I've always found various ways around buying the console like borrowing it from a friend or whatever. It's annoying but they have to make money so they want to make lots of games, but they also can't make all of the games on the same console because they would end up being way too similar to eachother. Gaming companies do that kind of thing; all of them do.
On a more serious note though. THE STORY IS VERY VERY confusing, BUT, it's not actually that bad if you know ALL of it (do take note this requires like 20 fucking hours of research ON TOP OF playing every game) but hey, it's worth it. The characters have deep motivations (even though a lot of those motivations span the course of more than one game) the inner workings of the relationships each character shares with one another are DYNAMIC AS HELL (that is to say they are ever changing) LIKE REAL RELATIONSHIPS. The story moves without you the player acting on it which gives the protagonist a feeling of helplessness as he is yet again thrown into a foreign place that he doesn't quite understand where things happen REGARDLESS if he wants them to or not. Another great thing is that ALMOST EVERY CHARACTER is REALLY REALLY unique and interesting in the series, and with each instillation of the series, you get to see more and more of what drives a certain persons motives, or the growth a person undergoes internally. As for that weird artificial feel your getting from dialog... I gotta be honest, I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THAT IS, BUT, what I can tell you is that it's not a KH exclusive. I've noticed that weird way of talking across SEVERAL Japanese games, I believe it MIGHT have something to do with translation as WESTERN theatrics ARE quite a bit different from the theatrical performance of Japanese actors. To be honest though, I REALLY DO see where you're coming from, but this is simply what happens when you take something like a FF games story and stretch it over 10+ years, hell, the story itself REALLY IS CLOSE to a lot of BIG anime in complexity, it just kinda happens when you keep it goin for so long without wiping the slate clean every so often. To end this vid review/explanation I gotta fight ya on a few things here. First- Sorry FF appearances aren't what you'd like them to be, but it isn't a FF game, they're just cameo's. ORIGINALLY (KH1) the concept WAS FF meets Disney, but it has LONG SINCE become KH+Disney. Second- As a long time FF fan myself, I gotta say I think they do a pretty fine job of representing FF personalities, after all, Cloud IS a moody son of a bitch in his own game until Aerith (when his icy heart melts SLOWLY) and then kinda re-freezes again after her death. Third- Development hell is a thing for all GOOD AAA tittles. Also don't forget the man who does MOST of KH (Namura) ACTUALLY HAD BEEN SAYING FOR YEARS that he wouldn't start KH3 till FFXV was completed. Fourth- THE FUCK YOU MEAN "ALMOST RUINED" FFXV?! HAVE YOU SEEN THE BEFORE AND AFTERS FOR WHEN HE WAS DIRECTOR!?!?! Namura's FFXV was a MUCH faster paced and flashy game (WHICH THAT GAME NEEDED IN ITS FIRST HALF DESPERATELY).
I agree. One of the few things imo FF13 did right was its opening sequence, it was fast, exciting, and it never stopped abruptly till it finished (after that though....... it goes downhill). FF15 opening gameplay high octane sequence is............ pushing a car. HOW EXCITING!! Even the highly panned FF8 opening sequence introduces us to a military school, which as an 8 year old, I found it badass as hell.
I totally agree. The story is only confusing if you treat other titles like spinoffs. They aren't. They all have some level of story importance even chi. It much more appropriate to treat the numbered titles to conclusions to massive arcs.
Coming back from playing Kingdom Hearts 3, I love how the “final chapter” in the series still isn’t the final chapter. The game ends on ANOTHER cliffhanger. AGAIN. I think I’m done being hyped for anything in this series that isn’t KH 1 or 2
Kingdom hearts 3 wasn’t the final chapter to the series. It was the final chapter to the dark seeker saga aka the xehanort saga meaning the end of xehanort and organization 13. I hope it’s the end for them. The director said that this game wasn’t the last one in the series meaning not the end of Sora’s journey but the last one in the saga.
That game is honestly a train wreck plot-wise. You spend the whole game playing through Disney worlds under the guise of "Sora needs to get strong again". Then when you clear all of those, suddenly everyone gets saved and you're ready to go to the final showdown. There was such horrible pacing, and absolutely no interesting character moments in any of the worlds. Just plop down organization character in world, tease Sora, and then summon a big useless heartless. Kingdom hearts 1 was SO good at handling this, idk why they just threw it out the window. Plus Xehanort was massively MEH in this game. He isn't menacing at all.. What a waste.
Daku Souru None of the characters were interesting. In fact, they couldn't have less peronality. They just make everyone full of secrets with vague exposition and Zero development. KH3 is really like someone had no idea what he wanted to show and just let everything happen. No match for 1 and 2.
To me maybe the reason I like kh so much is because of its big and complicated story, it just makes me want to know more and play more! But I can understand why some people don't like it, i guess they prefer it simple and clean :)
I think the problem is Nomura is best at making ideas for what the characters are supposed to be in terms of demeanor and design, but not at creating the story for them to develop to that point. honestly though he does curse whatever game he touches with unexplained development delays and writing changes. he is a human embodiment of a chaotic tornado. although I have the feeling he honestly still loves kingdom hearts. I think he just needs to hire better writers to assist him and let them take the wheel of the KH series.
@@roddybaba He does that for every game just to make a quick buck! If anything he's not treating it like a RPG series, but instead a cash cow franchise and that's sad because Kingdom Hearts doesn't deserve this treatment that Nomura's giving it. Fans have done a better job doing their own interpretations of the franchise and I guarantee that they can make a better version Kingdom Hearts than what Nomura has done. Just take a look at what he did to Kingdom Hearts 3. BTW Kingdom Hearts is supposed to a RPG game not a Rhythm game!
When I first heard about Melody of Memory and the fact that Kairi was possibly going to be the main character, I was excited.....................But then I find out that it's actually a rhythm game with Kairi not even being playable, despite the fact that she's front and center on the box art. 🤦♀️ Yes, she apparently has a story in this game, but still.....
@@shinyneko8136 They say it's possible that she's gonna be playable, but yeah it's still stupid that they make a new game with Kairi as the main center in the box art and yet she's not playable?! That BS! Instead they should've made it as a regular RPG game where Kairi goes on her own adventure to find Sora.
Me, excitedly planning to buy melody of memory because the demo was super fun and me and my friend loved multiplayer mode: 👁👄👁 Lmao maybe its nostalgia and childhood attachment but I really do love the game haha. Even if it makes no sense it makes me happy 🤷🏻♂️
People love MGS for having a crazy conveluded story so why do people always complain about Kingdom Hearts story. I absolutely love it and how utterly ridiculous it is. I want it to be ridiculous, it's why I love the franchise. The concept of combining Final Fantasy and Disney is crazy in its self
I like how the plot of KH is internally consistent, so they don't need to retcon anything (like how they retconned a ton of MGS stuff) imagine if mgs never retconned anything and actually tried to explain everything tho
Papa Slim I too, love convoluted and sometimes stupid narratives. But I also like Kingdom Hearts 1. And I know I'd enjoy the series a lot more if it cut the bullshit and went back to basics, as opposed to me just getting in on the joke. I know that because I played Re:coded, Days, and 3D back to back, in that order, and only one of those would get anything above a 6 from me. Spoilers, it was Re:coded.
Papa Slim because no matter how crazy it gets there is still a lot that can be taken as red. For example there are no alternate dimensions, people are mortal and will die if they sustain enough damage (with that threshold varying between cutscenes and gameplay), and there will always be an element of meta narrative (meaning the game is about a spy infiltrating a place, but it's also about you a person playing video games and the industry surrounding it).
4:23 I'm sorry... what... like, what don't you understand about that? How are those terms at all vague, or esoteric, or opaque, in any way? He's talking about a literal door, which must be locked from both sides. He's literally explaining the *ending of Kingdom Hearts*, the game you just fellated for being _simple_. Also, on the FF characters: they aren't supposed to be the same characters as their source material. Hell, Cloud in KH1 is supposed to be a fusion of him and Vincent. Disregarding the fact that along with character designs, Nomura often has a say in the actual _characterization_ of his designs (*especially* in FFVII), (also, do you really think character designers aren't privy to the characters they're designing?) the KH counterparts aren't supposed to be 1:1 likenesses. They never were.
What doesn't make sense? There's no real reason to believe they're supposed to be the exact same characters. Like, the FFX cast for example. Tidus, Wakka and Selphie are aged down to be characters who are friends with Sora, Riku and Kairi, living on Destiny Islands. Nothing from Spira exists in KH, much less on Destiny Islands. Is it really a surprise, then, that they share very little with the source material? FF characters have always been alt-universe versions of themselves. They aren't ported in from their source material like the Disney cast, they never have been, that's never what they were going to be. Glorified cameos, basically.
The_Echo You realize just because something is explainable doesn't mean it's excused It "making no sense" in this connotation, means, "That's the dumbest plot device I've seen recently" And yes, it's a very dumb plot device. Why even use the characters then? It's the same type of writing that's essentially destroyed Cloud's character in the first place
That's, unfortunately, not what "this makes no sense" means, in any context. It's not even a plot device, either. It's just a premise. You don't have to like it, that's just what they decided to do. Like how the worlds have to be separate. That's just the premise under which they've decided to work the narrative.
BriBri317 While I'll agree that the final mix versions of 1, 2, and BBS were some bullshit, if you don't count them, the only games resold were 1, 2, Re:Chain of Memories, BBS, and DDD. And those were only about $20 when you think about the fact they were in a collection. Of course there's the re release of the re releases of those games, so it would have only been 3 times, for nowhere near the same price as "full price". Idiot
roxasmanable "While I agree that the final mix versions of 1, 2, and BBS were some bullshit" Do you not even realize for how long people were begging Square to release the FM versions state side?
More than five times. Kingdom Hearts 1 Kingdom Hearts 1 Final Mix Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories Kingdom Hearts: coded Kingdom Hearts : recoded Kingdom Hearts 1.5 HD remix for the PS3 Kingdom Hearts 1.5 HD remix for the PS4
KH1 is a far superior game, however KH2 had the best combat. Not as stilted as the 1st and not as spammy as deck based titles. Just my 2 cents, everything else you hit very well
YOU FREAKING NAILED IT WITH THE CHARACTER MISREPRESENTATION! It pains my heart when I constantly have to tell KH fans that Cloud isn't emo in his game. I swear he just designs the characters, call it a day and never play the games.
JohnnyCQC wanna know why they're like that because they're not the same characters from the Final Fantasy game these are different characters being represented in different ways.
He did say he wanted to make a different version Cloud that was on the edge between light and dark, is he allowed to make any alterations or new spins on FF characters?
The “spin-offs” are actually really good if you give them a chance. The story doesn’t get as much credit as it deserves. It’s constantly be called “convoluted” without people actually even trying. It’s truly a masterpiece how everything is pieced together. Idk, just my opinion. I understand this side, too.
Yeah I agree the story can get somewhat complicated but that's only if you haven't played previous titles. Even if something doesn't get explained right away it eventually does. I.e.Ventus Roxas correlation.
@GEMain Yeah anytime one introduces time travel to a story things can get messy.I got it after they explained it but still KH has it's own rules for it too. DDD also butchered Sora's character.
You’re one of the few people to put my thoughts into words. Nothing in the series has come close to Kingdom Hearts 1. If only that game didn’t end on A FUCKING CLIFFHANGER, then I could appreciate it as a stand-alone title and not have to worry about everything else. But it feels like there will never be a conclusive ending. They just keep making things more needlessly complicated so they have an excuse to make more pointless games.
They could have ended the story on 2 and it would have been perfectly fine, i completely understand the bias towards KH1, it really is a good game, but i'm not giving up Chain of Memories or KH2 because these 3 titles as a trilogy make up for a MASTERPIECE of a story.
I definitely agree that the first game was the best. * The combat had some weight to it while still being fast and fun, like a 3D Secret of Mana. It actually felt like you were hitting your enemies, instead of swinging a stick at them. The sequels focused on flashiness (and shitty QTEs) over substance. * The writing went from decent and comprehensible to *utter shit* after the first game. "Nobodies" is an ironically apt term for most of the characters introduced in 2 and beyond, because that's literally what they are to me: NOBODIES. Disney villain legion of doom > forgettable anime characters with black coats and stupid "x" names. * The worlds were fully explorable with tons of goodies and secrets to find. And it actually had platforming in it. Yes, some of the platforming was bad (looking at you, Tarzan), but it was really good in other places. The sequels were mostly empty hallways + enemies to fight, and that's it. * They hid the dodge roll move behind a drive form in the second game. The fuck? * The Disney worlds and characters actually mattered. They weren't just puppet show retellings of their respective source movies. They had pertinence to the overarching plot. * Traverse Town > Twilight Town.
They hid dodge roll behind a Drive Form that WASN'T available in America and just appeared exclusively in Japan with the Final Mix. And KH1 was definetly the BEST KH (with BBS in my opinion, and i'm not speaking about gameplay), simple and easy to understand. KH1: Gotta find my friends KH2: Gotta find my friends, but in the mean time i will wander doing absolutely nothing in different Disney Worlds KH3: Gotta find the power of waking, but in the mean time i will wander doing absolutely nothing in different Disney Worlds, but this time with better meanings behind why i'm here.
@MisAnthro Pony KH story started to get convoluted and bad after KH1, when all this shit about Nobodies and Heartless, darkness and light started. KH2 started all this shit and BBS worsened, KH3 was the result of a bad written lore. Story: -KH1 -KHBBS -KH3 -KHRe:COM -KH0.2 -KH2 -KH3D Gameplay: -KH2 -KH3 -KH1 -KHBBS -KH3D -KHRe:Coded -KHRe:COM
@MisAnthro Pony KH1's story wasn't high art, but at least it didn't actively erode my IQ and brain cells the way KH2 and its sequels did. Definitely disagree about the gameplay. The only KH game that I feel can be considered an improvement on the original is Birth By Sleep. KH2 simply stripped out almost everything I loved about 1 and replaced it with drive fusions and senseless button mashing.
I don't really agree with this, but I can see you're point of view. Final fantasy characters are off, and the plot is super confusing. But I love everything about this series still. I love the characters epspecially. The character development for this series is off the charts. The only character with little to no character development is Sora, but I like his simplicity. Every time a play one of these games it always brings a smile on my face and invokes a lot of emotion. It always has some child like humor mixed in which is super refreshing, but when it's time to be serious they are and I feel it tackles a much deeper meaning behind each of the scenes. I honestly just love this series and I love long cut scenes and dialogs. It's like I am literally playing in a movie.
The least developed character is still Kairi. She's been in the series since KH1 yet very little about her is ever explored. Namine and Xion who are both somewhat extensions of her with their own persona's get far more engaging development in their respective titles but Kairi is still just in the background too much. What's more is for years it's been building towards Kairi and Sora being a thing together but it really doesn't feel like it will be satisfying due to a lack of development for Kairi. The characters with a bit better development are probably Riku, Roxas and Aqua but they aren't without their flaws too.
Riku is only 1 year older. And they're both teenagers in kh1. Sora just has a kiddy voice for some reason lmao. Just thought I'd note that since you don't know what you're talking about. Riku didn't fall to darkness because he's older. that's a stupid explanation. He fell to darkness cause his dick personality he had. his personality itself wasn't all pure in kh1. And then you say that Donald and goofy left sora because they're "fake assholes". They left him because they're royal orders. They even said it in sad tone, and told sora "sorry" as they left. And later on say "I guess we're gonna have to defy the kings orders" and stand by his side. I'm just gonna stop you right there. You clearly don't know what you're talking about
Riku never fell into darkness. That would imply he turned into a heartless. But I do agree that this guy doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.
blozzybabe2 it really was lol.. I literally couldn't even finish the video because there were so many errors which as a long time HUGE kh fan bothers the hell out of me. Like if you're gonna talk down on such a big and beautiful franchise, you have to at least know what you're talking about 😂
Ah. Well welcome to the community. I do recommend playing ALL the games in story order if you haven't already. Although you can skip Re:Coded. Its literally there for no reason 😂
Kingdom hearts makes me sad in a different way. It makes me emotionally sad, like i wanna cry at points. That's what makes it good, it lets you connect with the characters.
Kingdom hearts was my first ever Disney stuff without me even knowing about it. I thought all the disney people were all made up for kingdom hearts until my wife blew my mind telling me these people have their own movies.
Your... wife? This implies that you are a full-grown adult, and despite speaking fluent English, you somehow went your whole childhood without ever having any significant Disney exposure. ....HOW?!? Were you raised in a bunker or something? Because I guarantee you that Disney has been attempting to break into it all this time. ;)
Hahaha. Yeah I just never heard of Disney before as a kid always been too busy. I mostly grew up with superhero stuff and nickelodeon and cartoon network lol.
You deserve a badge of notability for _never having encountered anything Disney until adulthood._ That’s rare indeed, hope you enjoy this magical mayhem!
Incidentally, I have two other questions, if that's all right: 1. Do you live outside the U.S.? ...and... 2. Were you home-schooled? Those are the only two realistic possibilities I can conceive of. (Living in a bunker is a little less realistic.)
"there are people who got a PS3 because they think kingdom hearts 3 will be on it"
I feel so called out right now
That's why I buy ps4...
Nonsense you need to buy PS5 for play KH 3 XD
That's why you don't buy a console just for ONE game. Stupidest idea ever
I bought my psp, ps3 and ps4 for kingdom hearts and final fantasy.
same
You're totally right about Disney worlds needing to be better integrated into the main story like they did in Kingdom Hearts 1
James Oh Burn and it looks like that will be the case for kh 3 with olympus colosseum being important to sora's character
The first thing we're doing in KH3 is going to Hercules' world, by Yen Sid's request. We're off to a good start.
If it's just more of that "becoming a true hero" crap that doesn't tie onto the main plot, then no, it's not a good start.
Gary Tomás Constanza Martinez no,it's more than.just a true hero fiasco now,sora needs to gain hos strength back by doing something on the world
Yeah, I miss when Disney characters were important to the series.
Problem with Nomura story writing is, he starts with something interesting and then accidentally started a small fire and when he tried to put it out he started a gas leak, and then he went back to the fire to stop the gas leak, then dream drop happened and everything just stopped making sense
The reason why Square Enix keeps on giving Nomura free reign is because he's NOT a storyteller. Remember, video games get approved for development when the designers display a "proof-of-concept" video and a bunch of gameplay ideas to an entire board of executives within the upper management of the company. Nomura is naturally very good at this because he's a concept creator, which is WHY the trailers for his games always look amazing. Consequently, the upper management at SE keeps putting him in charge of various projects under the apparent assumption that he will know what he's doing because his ideas are so 'bold'. The problem is that Nomura--and many other SE employees such as Motomu Toriyama, Kazushige Nojima and Daisuke Watanabe--are all visionaries who can only come up with IDEAS, but they have seemingly no idea how to structure and present them in a way that works well. They can CREATE a story, but they have almost no fucking clue how to TELL one properly, because no decent script-writers and storyboard editors are there to say "No!" to things. This is why the FFXIII trilogy, FF Versus XIII / FFXV, The 3rd Birthday, and the entire Kingdom Hearts series are all disasters in terms of storytelling--because nobody at Square Enix ever knows when to say "STOP!", and the executives at Square Enix are completely oblivious to the fact that a creative visionary and a talented director are two entirely separate things. This is EXACTLY what happened with George Lucas and the Star Wars prequels.
@JonahtheMann Not only does Japanese business culture mandate that a project lead cannot be questioned by their subordinates, the stated business goal of Square Enix is to create properties they can then milk for all they are worth. Hence why while KH3 took years and years to come out there were so many midquels. Nomura fits perfectly into that goal if you think about it, he dazzles before the release date with promises of high concept stories and beautiful cutscenes, all of which are made with the explicit purpose of drumming up hype to sell copies. They don’t care at all if a good story is really told or not, they only care that whatever story is told is going to keep people coming back for more installments regardless of quality.
JonahtheMann Nomura wrote the twist of FF7, to say he’s not a story-teller is false considering his first role on a major final fantasy game was as a writer.
@@omarhasan1465 that all he really good at, twists, there were other writers on the ff7 team, if it was nomura alone, shepiroth would be talking about darkness every 5 seconds
@@omarhasan1465 to be honest, writing a twist is not that hard. It is about making it work in satisfying way which requires some build-up.
The problem with Kingdom Hearts? It starts off with a very simple and straight forward story where the theme was a game that features anime, Final Fantasy, and Disney all in one setting. After that, it turns into a massive clusterfuck where you shouldn't even try to understand it or else you'll get a massive headache.
That's exactly what the video said. Tbh the stories not very complicated if you've played all the games. But there is a lot to play and lots of people don't have time for that.
Edit: I don't know what I was talking about. Sorry ig.
Augustine Rivera I agree. Lol I can get it. If you care enough you’ll get it. So many people say this and I go along with it because I don’t want to argue with people or come across as aggressive.
Its not even worth understanding. The payoff is not worth...anything, really. It's fanfic garbage.
I guess you could say it started off... *Simple and clean* ...
I’ll walk myself out
You could say Kingdom hearts 1 is...Simple and clean.
I like KH1 for its story.
But, I enjoy KH2 for its gameplay.
BBS has almost as good gameplay as 2 and with a slightly better story.
I've never played any of the other KH games besides CoM which I hated, because I hate the gameplay.
ZING
Blitzball Ace the only reason it was “simple” is cause its the starting ground😂the games arent complicated they just ask that you care enough to put a story together as apposed to being spoon fed information like a child, i admit the order of release was weird but if we’re going there, star wars did that way before kingdom hearts
and it's hard to let it go
@@MyNameJalo Yeah but the story is needlessly complex. It's not even hard to follow, just unnecessarily long.
All Kingdom Hearts games in a nutshell :
Everyone is Sora. And everyone that isn’t Sora is Xehanort. Boom.
You know how all of the games start with one of the main characters narrating a line that shows up on the screen? Kingdom Hearts 3 should open with that one, narrated by Goofy (who seems to be the only character in game who has a clue of what is going on anyway, for some reason xD)
Goofy...
Is in possesion of the mind stone
....or a Disney character.
Toothpaste im part of the fanbase that till this day, i dont know what the hell is even going on on every game or more than half the lore but still play the games
Toothpaste ...and nobody knows what kingdom hearts is.
“Ain’t Sephiroth the one who’s supposed to be the dark part of Cloud’s heart?”
Me (who hasn’t played Kingdom Hearts but has played FFVII): I’m sorry WHAT
Yeah, that's not their relationship at all. Not even close. Sephiroth was never a "dark part of Cloud."
This plot doesn't even make sense within the KH lore. Since when can the darkness of a person take on a separate humanoid form, especially if that person is still living? When has that ever happened?
The only instance of this is the relationship between Ventus and Vanitas in "Birth By Sleep." Even then, it wasn't a natural occurrence because Xehanort forced it to happen, and Ventus almost died because of it!
Like, what the fuck, Nomura?
chimanruler15 I mean, I guess you could say that there’s elements of Sephiroth that are a dark reflection of Cloud, kinda? But it’s not a literal thing at all. And oh boy, learning it doesn’t even work much in the universe of Kingdom Hearts just makes it worse.
@@chimanruler15 Nomura: "What do you know? Haven't you heard of the suspension of disbelief?"
When I heard that as a Kid I believed that he was the Dark Part of Cloud. After I played to Original FF7, I got hit with a wave of confusion
@@chimanruler15 This plot doesn't even make sense within the KH lore. Since when can the darkness of a person take on a separate humanoid form, especially if that person is still living? When has that ever happened?< its been many years so i may be wrong, sorry if i am, but i think in kindgom hearts 2 when you visit Yen Sid he states that, when the heart's host is someone really strong, his heartless and nobody keep their shape (and he showed the organization). Now as of Cloud and Sephiroth, i think T.Nomura had said some stuff on articles about it, (covering them in the Kingdom Hearts Universe no Final Fantasy) so if you want to understand his point of view maybe search for some of them. Just to express my opinion on the matter, Sephiroth really isn't cloud's dark part, but he is the darkest part of Cloud's memories and even in Advent Children, Cloud has to beat Sephiroth , (i think tifa said that this was his fight, when yuffie wanted to help) just to deal with that past to be able to smile again like the start of final fantasy 7 (cause he turned kinda emo on Advent Children).So if i think of it like that it doesn't really fit out of place and i really like having these versions of their characters cause i think these are the characters Nomura would want if he made their personalities as well in final fantasy! Its like 2 different versions and I love both!
i just can't take a game that has mickey mouse saying "They will pay for this" seriously
You haven't read any mickey mouse comic book then.
@@jimm8176 No, i didn't. I just read the Joe Carioca cause i am a proud brazilian
Don't worry, no one takes the game seriously.
It would've worked better if he didn't say anything and just flew into a rage.
i do MICKEY is strong in this world and even have the gold keyblade
Its like Noruma saw this video, and said "Im going to do the exact opposite" for KH3
Ultima X Sage I came down to comment this basically. Nomura has no fucking clue how to direct anything
It's pretty obvious now, as if it wasn't before, but Nomura is with no the plot as he goes. That's why fan theroies don't work, he doesn't give us enough clues because he isn't 100% sure what's gonna happen next either.
???? It's literally the same problem imo..
@@IamKoreanMan The real problem is that Nomura is just writing the story as he makes the games, that's why there aren't any spin-off games, they are all part of the story... It's not terrible but it's not a good way to do it, I've played them all as they came out and even back in the day when I beat kh2 on the ps2 I was waiting for a kh3 and dudes wrong when he says we didn't know it was coming, we actually did cuz it was either that or the store was over and it failed which obviously wasn't gonna happen.
Nah bro
I guess you could say that KH1 was.... Simple and Clean?!?!?!
Hylian Dragoon Zero ...is the way that youre making me feel tonight, and its hard to let it go.
God damnit, hikari...
Dang it! *I* was gonna make that joke. Oh well, it's still true though.
TIEN: Y'know, given how we are still alive after all of this, I'mma let you have that one.
VEGETA: I won't you suck!
Badum tss
And stupid.
Had to button. Mash the Ursula fight to win.
Donald and Goofy abandon Sora because Riku has the keyblade? Really?
Riku throughout the game is just Sasuke, but worse
I saw the KH3 ending and I came running back to this video.
EpicFilip After the final slap in the face!
Well. Your criticisms are still valid post-KH3. Aaaand based on how KH3 ends they seem to have NO interest in hiring actual writers to fix any of this shit or turn the series in a more coherent direction.
They don't need to fix anything its just alot of information thats all
@@Oracle1426 then take out the bullshit information that nobody cares about.
@@codered1132 what is the information that needs to be taken out
@@Oracle1426 All of it. Kingdom hearts 3 was a letdown. All those characters personality changes and Disney worlds with no Ff characters with a freaking cactus keyblade is ridiculous.
Disney going to shrek/ice age direction. Making multiple spin off or sequels just for milking it to the death for money, merchs sales and satisfy their playerbase. Also disney and FF here rely their own nostalgia to fans. And lets see how long they can drag on these...
Tetsuya Nomura can draw.
that's literally it.
Kevin Roberts he can draw BELTS.
He’s just not a good writer. No matter what you say about the plot of Kingdom Hearts the games are still all around good and in no way objectively bad. He has never failed to deliver on a good experience and I still say that with three. Honestly if the series had better writing they would be much less criticism of the series.
He's basically the tite kubo of gaming. Super dope initial ideas, but can not write a story and has no vision for coherence
Eric Hernandez the complexity of the kingdom hearts story and lore are why I love it, not sure why so many hate it. I find it satisfying when I make a connection between games and can be like “so THAT explains THIS!” Had it not been for the complexity of the story, I wouldn’t be so invested in it.
@@PeachIceCreamy It's not complexity people hate. It's the fact that it's all so poorly thought out; constantly retconning things that already happened, adding new rules and tripping over them, and worst of all spreading out the plot over so many separate games. It's not a cohesive narrative with a beginning, middle and end, it's a just a big mess they're making up as they go along
I hate those KH Fans who say "The story is simple! You guys are just idiots!!" And pretend that nothing is wrong with these games. I've loved Kingdom Hearts for over 12 years now, but this series is anything but flawless. The biggest problem in the series is backtracking and reuse. GOD so much gets recycled in these games. Recycled worlds, recycled story elements (milking that nobody/alternate persona cow real good, eh Nomura?) And even reusing bosses so much that they totally lose the intimidation they once had. (Thank god 2.8 was able to make Darkside creepy again) A complex story with lots of twists and loops doesn't automatically equal good. It's the quality of the surprises, not the quantity. What KH does well, it does very well, but any true fan can't sit here and act like this series is untouchable.
The story is simple. (When not counting Dream Drop Distance because....sigh..anyways). I didnt even have to play Chain of Memories in full when Kh2 came back. Cause it was for the GBA at the time, I got through Id say half of it and the gameplay pissed me off so much that I couldnt do it anymore so dropped it. The best Kingdom Hearts to me is 1 and 2. Everything else, I dont give a shit what no one says, feels like a side game that just needlessly added unnecessary questions to the story. Birth By Sleep was the start of it but it gave us a good thought about where certain things started.
Exactly! They've been using the same characters and the same worlds and the same concept for nearly 20 years at this point! Most RPG games would have every intalement takes place in it's own universe with a new cast and a new story.
Kingdom Hearts doesn't do that. It butchers the usual format of the RPG genre and that's starting from a clean state with a whole new setting.
Sora is basically the Ash Ketchum of Kingdom Hearts he's been the main character since day 1 and it gets tiresome playing as the same guy over and over again. BBS and 358 days are the only games where he's not the main character and that only 2 percent of the WHOLE franchise.
Keep in mind that this is coming from a KH fan here. I loved the series ever since I played the first game. And because I cared about the series I want it to get better. I want it to get the help that it deserve to be in a better state than it is now.
Very late reply but I honestly agree that the fans who think everything is perfect are just blinded by nostalgia. KH is a very raw series which manages to capture and portray bonds and feelings in a meaningful way, but dear god this mess of a plot drives me insane. I love the characters, I love the gameplay, I love the worlds and the music, but a real fan can definitely admit that this plot needs to be cleaned up pronto and honestly at this point I'm only concerned for the cast rather than the haywire mess of a plot everyone is tangled into right now. I'm not interested in keeping track of who's Sora and who's Xehanort. I just want a simple story about the bonds and connections formed between a well-realized cast, but it's a shame it seems Nomura's only continuing on his path towards the incomprehensible plot he's built up. You hate to see it when your favorite cast of characters pretty much anywhere don't get the chance to act on their own or have much agency anymore when some bald elf man in a gothic dress is basically spending 90% of the plot dragging them around.
I consider myself a Kingdom Hearts fan, but I became a fan not playing any of the games. I slowly started playing the games, and became more of a fan, but I had a VERY hard time figuring out how the hell things went. It took me years to separate all the Xehanorts and the classifications of Heartless and Nobodies, how things were connected, and I still have no idea who the hell the back cover individuals are. I haven't played Union X either, so I'm far from caught up.
As a KH fan, I can say with my back arched proudly that the story is one of the most garbage and shitty things about the games. What excel in mechanics fail in a good plot. KH1 was the same way for me, I don't really see how KH1 had a smooth and simple story. It wasn't COMPLICATED like 2, but it wasn't smooth either.
I consider myself a fan of Kingdom Hearts 2 basically
In my opinion Kingdom Hearts is a complete mess, and most people who defend it are just nostalgia blinded
had to correct you, kingdom heart 3 made a difference between souls and hearts. I don't know the difference but there is one.
This is such a mood
Pretty sure what they meant by soul in it is more like your "presence"
this is an old comment but nomura stated in an interview once that a heart is the memories that make up who you are. thats why if you lost youre heart you wouldnt exactly be dead but you’d be an empty husk like a nobody, and a heart of light like soras would be good because of those positive experiences while a heart of darkness like young xehanort is evil because of his experiences in dark road(all his fuckin friends died).
Kh 2 made that difference not 3
There has been a difference since kh2. Yen Sid states that heartless are hearts and nobodies are bodies + souls - hearts.
"Part" of the problem is Tetsuya Nomura? The problem IS Tetsuya Nomura. He was also the problem with 15 and 7 remake.
Atleast he wont have to come up with a bad story in FF7 Remake
@@theclawyaww3740 Trust me. He's gonna find some way to fuck it up
Chocolate Comrade that’s Nomura’s greatest trait, fucking storylines up. bring sakaguchi back !
No, What happened with XV was out of his hands. His team was literally forced to help out with XIII development since they had so much trouble. He only had CG artitsts so the only thing he could do then were CG trailers. Then the higher-ups at Square put him on other projects causing him to be busy which led to him being taken off. And given how the Remake is looking now, you're completely wrong about 7 remake. Nomura is not a good writer but he is a good director, he just needs to not have the higher-ups interfere for the worse.
@@uncertified-banger5595 Update: You were right, he did.
The correct names for Kingdom Hearts games:
Kingdom Hearts= Kingdom Hearts
Chain of Memories= Kingdom Hearts 1/2
KH2= KH2
358/2 Days= KH 3/4
Coded= KH: Filler
Unchained= Kingdom Hearts 0
Birth By Sleep= Kingdom Hearts 0: 2
Dream Drop Distance= Kingdom Hearts 3
Kingdom Hearts 3= Kingdom Hearts 9
9...lol
Is Unchained the one with furry cult?
Yyyyeeeeeessssss. Thank you!
What about KH: X backpage?
I really hope KH3 is presented as a game that doesn't require you to play all the spinoffs, because I felt the quality took a deep dive (ahem) every time they stayed away from the home consoles - except Birth by Sleep.
But even if it makes no freakin' sense to me, I'll still play and enjoy KH3, even if I end up mocking its story all the way through.
...Ohhh, all right, let's be honest here: even if I understand every word, I'll be mocking KH3's story from start to finish, regardless. It's just that kind of series, and it's part of the fun. :)
But what about 0.2?
The story is so convuluted at this point, makes no sense to 90% of ppl that will buy kh3 I bet
@Michael Arufe Maybe hating everyone that likes these games is a bit much
@Michael Arufe yeah, that was completely on you. It's common sense not to jump into a random point of a series expecting to understand anything. The plot is only really egregiously incomprehensible to people who haven't played the prior games.
@@robertwesley7332 but this is why is a bad story writing. I mean look at yakuza series. They all started in yakuza 0 but if you start the story from any part later to the game (yakuza has 7 main games in kiryu saga) the story of each game hold off on their own. They retold at first and even without bother viewing their origins story, the sequels have their own problems and enemies that not really relied heavily to sequel before to be make sense. Each game can hold by themselves. Plus they dont rely heavy to nostalgia like KH. KH had biggest problem to start like merging FF and Disneys characters that each of them need licensing and not betray any expectations fanbase have for each franchises licensed. If KH not rely to disney and FF characters but making their own "form" like 3 first protsgonist. Maybe the story could be better. Now theres a problem licensing to FF characters and they are completely dissapears from KH universe in 3rd game. Plus if disney not forcing KH make multiple "spin off" at sony "spin off" console exclusive like psp and vita, KH3 wont suffer much from this. KH is doomed since KH2 to KH3 development. KH4 if there is one, should end the series..
@@Nahan_Boker94 any fault on the story has already been established over eight years in advance. It's bad, but it's not something you can't understand in the slightest unless you haven't played the other games which was my initial point. How is having a connected story bad writing? How is it objectively inferior to anthology games? DMC isn't bad just because it goes off the prequel's story. MGS isn't bad just because the games are connected. I don't even understand your point, really. There are tons more beloved series' with games that have a synonymous story. Bad stories aren't bad because they're lengthy. They're bad because they're bad. Kingdom Hearts was never really about the story anyway. It sucks, so that's why we have the gameplay to lean on majority of the time.
Which one is it? Does it rely on FF characters or does it "betray any expectations fanbase have for any franchise licensed"? You can't have it both ways. How does it even *rely* on FF characters in the slightest? Cloud only appears in Olympus and in the credits, and Leon, Aerith, and Yuffie are also in one world. The entire concept is literally "Disney as Anime", not "Disney and Final Fantasy". It's not like the series suddenly decided to start adding Disney characters in it on a whim. That's always just been the main gimmick. Since when was licensing on Square's end an issue? The game's advertised as a Square Enix game. They won't just suddenly lose the rights to their own characters as you confusingly imply. Besides, Leon, Yuffie, Aerith, and Cid are all in Re:Mind anyway. You're either stupid or living under a rock if you think everyone'll just decide to stop eating up Kingdom Hearts content. A large majority of the fanbase still exist and even those who have not been as enthusiastic about it will still probably buy it. Just look at Melody of Memory. It'll be a long time from now before the series will ever be doomed.
@@robertwesley7332 I'm a big fan of kingdom hearts but I'll say people need to do research before jumping into the middle of the series plus Disney owns kingdom hearts so they have the biggest say
I always saw Nomura's interpretation of hearts, souls and bodies being like a computer. The body is the hardware, the tangible parts that make up the person, and the soul is the electricity that powers the computer, and the heart is the software the computer uses. This is actually supported by Kingdom Hearts 1, when Kairi is comatose. Her body is still alive, but her heart is gone. She's basically a computer that turns on but has no software to run.
that is a really great explanation
That’s more logical than anything nomira can come up with. Because nobodies are bodies without hearts.
@@umwhaNobodies are stuck in BIOS, except for those with a UEFI that maintains boot order even after a cmos battery replacement.
In my humble opinion. Writing can make or break a game especially when the game is heavily dependant on it
I guess KH was always broken.
•Vï •Mo• except for KH1
In the case of RPGs, plot is absolutely essential.
That's why the last of us 2 sucked.
Bruh he said that in the video
My 2 least favorite inevitable comments are "Get ready for the fanboys defending the game hurr durr", and "Let me tell you why your wrong in 30 paragraphs".
Bastion #69 Gonna bet you would do it if someone said Overwatch is bad.
Papa slim
Nice name
Bastion #69 Time to throw a curveball. let me tell you why you're wrong in 29 paragraphs! ( I was originally going to add "in german" and copy/paste the first 29 paragraphs of mien kampf but I'm too lazy to.)
Getleveled I can make the whole game simple and clean in 3
"The first game is godlike"
I may be biased but like
..are you sure about that
It may not be “god like” but no other game in the series was as popular, or understandable.
In comparison to the other games - I guess from a writing perspective, it was the most understandable and simply enjoyable.
“The first game is godlike”
OKAY I BELIEVE YOU
Rahman Gamble it’s just a game though. I don’t really spend any time thinking about this series at all lol.
The Gambino
Was that a motherflippin justapancakes reference??
It has WAY SUPERIOR writing than the sequel and spinoff games. But the mechanics are somewhat the worst in the series.
It is scary how accurate this video became once the game actually was released because I played KO3 and was wondering why I thought the game was bad then I find this video and I'm like wow
No Final Fantasy charachters.
Wow
KH3: HOlD MY INGREDIENTS
Joke's on you, it came out and it has no Final Fantasy in it at all except for the moogle shops. Lmao. And I won't even talk about what a joke the plot was..or how only 15% of the game actually had plot that wasn't a disney world, or how they built Kairi up to be a keyblade wielder and then just used her as a set piece or damsel in distress the entire game....etc etc
And the ridiculous amount of cutscenes and way too easy combat and no arena
And how Xehanort and Saix gets redeemed (somehow) despite all they did, for no apparent reason, and how most characters expect Sora feel like an afterthought
that was such a cliff hanger, and its suppose to be the conclusion
Its Square higher ups fault, its very obvious to see.
@@TheHeroRobertELee No there is NOT a ridiculous amount of cutscenes, there could be even more cutscenes, that is NOT a problem, hate people who cant sit their asses for some time to watch cutscenes.
The main point that hurts the game is that it relies on you to know everything outside the games. Chain of memories, and everything in the films. Whenever I visit a world, I hope to get development on the plot. Instead, they take out WAY too much and I'd be lost without knowing about it. Why should I care about these worlds? Each world only had 3 characters overwhelmed with heatless. Idk.
thats because the spin off are rather inportant like people say you just dont label things as 1 2 and 3 cause by then your missing a whole chunk of the series
@@scarletrose8766 ...which is a really stupid way of establishing a lore. Up until the compilations, people had to get every single main and side game on multiple consoles just to follow the story. There is no reason for that.
chimanruler15 I'm not a game dev. So can't say that its easy to have the lore be all at one console then again that might be easier thou I dunno why they went everywhere with thier game so yeah there's that Then KH is already all over The place so there's that maybe they saw how it affected thier game and dunno how to fix the mess so they compile stuff into a more compiled console game I suppose
chimanruler15 Well, there is. MONEY! If you haven't noticed. The honest Trailer from the original you Tube channel for kingdom hearts, had been banned, ever since KH3 released.
@@MrSuperAJ Not surprising that they would do this for money. At least they understand the consequences of it now.
"Integrate the final fantasy characters"
instead they removed them entirely
Considering the alternative was whoring them out into something they never were to begin with... I see that as KH3's only saving grace.
everytime someone tries to explain kingdom hearts, no matter how accurately or simply they explain it, im always ready to laugh
True.
xD
Friend who's a KH fan: **explains KH plot**
Me, a Soulsborne fan: **laughs like Mutahar from SOG**
Get ready for blind fanboyism after this. Even though you never said "Kingdom Hearts itself is bad."
He said Kingdom Hearts past the first game is bad. Did you even watch the video? Or are you one of those on that think the series is bad because it's over your head? It's not this series fault that people are too uneducated to understand.
No. He said the writing was bad. He actually said in the video he enjoys KH2 more now. At 5:13, I'll even give you a timestamp. Did you even watch the video? The entire series is light vs darkness, plus some fun relationships with some wacky characters sometimes. The game story itself has never been hard to understand. The story is "confusing" because they keep tacking more and more nonsense onto a plot that's fairly basic. "Two opposing forces are fighting each other" is all there is to it. Kingdom Heart's problem is that it unnecessarily tried to explain that story in the most over the top way they can manage. "Overly complicated" and "hard to understand" are not synonyms.
Ad hominem isn't going to win you that many arguments. Maybe try to actually tackle arguments instead of picking out one little thing to argue against (which wasn't correct on your end anyway) and then spouting a bunch of bullshit?
Because I spoke the truth? Because I called this guy out for making shit up? Sorry you can't take that bud. Reaaally am.
Again, I repeat. Its not the games fault that people are uneducated and want everything explained to them like they're 5.
me and you probably share the same opinion, but I can say that you're making yourself look like a massive moron
The plot isn't complicated. It's convoluted. Great video still
That's the exact same thing and he uses that word as well.
.....but "complicated" implies that the complexity is there by nature, where as "convoluted" implies the the complexity is unnecessary.
Then it's automatically convoluted because it's written lol
Nah. Time travel stories aren't convoluted, they're complicated. You can't make an elaborate Time Travel story without making some things go crazy after a few trips. And that's the nature of time travel. Weird stuff happens because of how time works.
wouldn't that make it both?
Sora getting the keyblade WAS an accident, it was supposed to go to Riku but he chose the darkness so the keyblade went to sora. At least I’m pretty sure that’s how it went
But hey that's just a theory.
A game theory!!!
It's defintiley cannon I think they explain it in kh2
What a lame way to start a story.
"Well, this other guy was supposed to be the chosen one, but he didn't want to, so you can have it, I guess..."
Hey look kh3 has like zero ff characters
the moogle is an ff character
Doesn't count.
Your a can of beans what do you know ?@@kara-mari9909
@@goonizumi6571 it doestn count as a legit ff character like the ones were used to seeing in kh
Still a character. @@kingkilla777
As a "hardcore fan" of the series who has played every single game on their respective consoles when the released, and bought 2.8, and plans on buying the bundle in March, you brought up some good points. The story has gotten messier, and the games haven't really been great since 2 (kinda upset how you didn't mention how kingdom hearts 2 gameplay is an actual work of art and instead just talked about the worse story but w/e), I think you're being a bit too harsh however. I didn't mind the spinoff games (for the most part, Re:coded was hot garbage). From what I see I personally think KH3 will come along smoothly and release around late 2018, if not that then early to mid 2019 as long as we don't hear otherwise in the future, which, to be fair, wouldn't surprise me if we did hear some bad news but as of now its looking good.
I think there's a big problem if no one but the most hardcore of fans can forgive the story for being so convoluted
the story is incredibly convoluted, nobody who even remotely thinks about it is denying that, but its not as hard to understand as some people make it out to be, I will completely agree the story went every direction imaginable after 2, but I will not agree that its as bad as people say.
It's pretty much the most confusing hard to understand story there is even kh2. I've played all the games multiple times except for DDD which I just started and I still have trouble grasping how it all comes together. And that's partly why KH is still my favourite game of all time. Because it was simple and clean ^^
KH2 is still a great game and I loved it but there are so many new characters and concepts introduced that it ultimately feels rushed. Ansem not being the real Ansem but actually being Xehanort's heartless but he's not the real Xehanort he's terra possessed by the original (?as far as we know) Xehanort... It's like the series has a problem introducing new antagonists and wants them ALL to be the same dude because it's supposed to blow our minds. But as long as the conclusion of this Xehanort saga resolves everything in a satisfying way kh3, it'll be great. They can finally move on and we won't have to wait another 10 years for kh4
Rebecca please don't say that. You are going to jinx the hell out of the release of the KH4 and then make it longer then said 10 years.
+Rebecca You say KH is the most confusing story ever when Zelda and MGS exists. Stop over exaggerating. The story is not that hard to understand. There's just too much stuff to remember and think about.
This was hilarious, and I'm a long-term fan. Thanks for reminiscing about the magic of the first game.
Something I never hear anyone bring up is how Final Fantasy XV completely fucked up the future of KH. Back when it was Versus XIII, it was being made by the original Kingdom Hearts team, composer, and director. This game stole the golden opportunity for Kingdom Hearts III to come out on PS3, probably five years after KH2 by the latest. The development hell of Versus XIII forced Nomura to come up with all these side games and remakes of side games, each one over-complicating the overall plot just to justify their own existence. I blame FF XV, the former president of Square-Enix, and Nomura's mismanagement for the alienating state KH is in right now.
Typical reaction of blaming the failure of something you like on something else. Hate to break it to you but the plot was already becoming convoluted and absurd with KH2. It's the reason why KH2 is my favorite though, because I never gave 2 shits about KH's plot. Gameplay wise, 2's the best to me. IF I do end up playing KH3, I still won't give a crap about the plot there either.
kh2 "convolution" lv is bearable and makes up for some pretty interesting twists. i absolutely LOVE what they did with Roxas and the nobodies, and how the Organization XIII interacts with Sora for those reasons. the one thing that stick to me is the whole Ansem; Xemnahorth (i dont even know by this point), but to me that only happenned because of sloppy dialog (not even bad, just sloppy).
what i can agree is the plot got convoluted as hell with the other games. i dont know exactly how the story Works because i havent played them yet, but i hope is not as bad as it sounds
I personally like the whole sha-bang. I could follow the story EASY, gameplay was a little weird in dreamdrop and memories, but all of it, flaws included, still shits over a lot of other games i've seen. My only real worry is that despite my feelings to this series and square, i think this guy making the video nailed it perfectly with the problems. They're getting sloppy, ESPECIALLY with a guy who hasn't even played the FF games being the one to handle their developement. Lightning and/or noctis needs to be in the next game. Hell, serah an noel having alternate reality travelling capabilities would actually fit perfectly into these games. Aaaaand yeah i've heard the argument that KH is supposed to be its own kind of universe, but some of these characters, like moogles, chocobos, and most summons etc. Fit in to ANY square enix game by now because ANY square fan eould apprdciate yhem an recognize them for what they are. That's the kind of power square has with theirvloyalists nowadays. They need to learn to use it more
Fuck Lightning. Bitch has had enough games as it is and is legitimately more boring than early-game Cloud or Squall throughout everything she has ever done. KH is completely removed from the FF universe, it's all just "oh hey cool" cameos. You said yourself that it's just character recognition, which is why Cloud and Sephi are "ZOMFG ETERNAL RIVALS, HALVES OF THE SAME COIN" bullshit; it's just because they're recognizable favorites and who gives a fuck why they're there? No one, that's who. KH =/= FF, plain and simple.
Your wrong about FF XV dude, back when XIII was being developed the Kingdom Hearts team didn't get the resources they needed because of FF XIII and by the time that game was finish the game engine they had to use wasn't up to scratch, hence FF XV development hell. Tetsuya had to ask for permission to build a new engine just to get the game up and running before it was handed off to the FF XIII director, all of this kept delaying Kingdom Hearts 3 because the tech wasn't there and they had a lot of plot to work through.
Nomura is a typical edgy emo kid and his stories reflect it.
lol
Damn lol called the fuck out 🤣
yeh its just sad now
Kinda true,but thank god the team behind FF7R seems like it's not letting Nomura do whatever he pleases,as the game is looking genuinely great
@@bernardocarneiro1982 i'm here after ff7r ending
Turns out KH3 is just 70 hours of cutscenes to do household chores to and about 10 hours of fun hack and slash gameplay. Shame.
Thanks for letting me know. I've started to hate KH2 because it's just 12+ hours of cutscenes of different worlds that contribute absolutely nothing to the story and you can only do other characters' chores to unlock these gates for the sake of padding out the time. Other than being technically obligated to let you go deeper into the game's progress, the alternate worlds are pointless. How is helping Simba get back on his feet after he doubts his purpose going to help? How is Ariel finding true love going to advance anything? The ideal way to mix alternate worlds and the main plot together is to make the chores based on the main antagonists. Like what if someone was captured by them? What if someone's stuff got stolen by the bad guys? What if on the off chance a world has an antagonist with the potential of wanting to reform but they're found injured so for the purpose of the story you've gotta do chores that help him out in exchange for information?
@@Kodachi112 I see your point. I agree with it, just understand of course that... disney runs this whole series. Their representatives define what this game is allowed to be. The director of the series is kind of a hack, and that's why he works well (relatively speaking) under the strictures that Disney places upon the entire production of this game. It's ALL m$rchandising, yo.
Have to say though, comat in these games can be genuinely fun! Skip boring scenes and watch the ones with characters you like. It's not a worthless series, only a dissapointing one.
@@Kodachi112 I've pretty much stopped caring about the KH series after KH2 and BBS. As off the rails and filler filled the story for KH2 is and Sora acting like an asshole. I still felt that the ending of 2 was closure enough. All of the main protagonists were reunited finally and without the cliffhanger after credits ending, the series could have ended there! So Kh2 doesn't anger me too much with its flippant story because it provides closure for most characters. However KH3 from what I've heard just ends with more cliffhangers to lead into more convoluted story telling. Yeh!
@MisAnthro Pony I think it was actually a bit more, but besides that there was way more gameplay than cutscene compared to average to the average game time. Plus there's also the post game in KH2 Final Mix.
Its easy to understand how KH fans are fucking destroying this franchise when you see this fucking stupid comments, congratulations to all of you.
Hardcore fans, like myself, do 1 of 2 things
Option 1: ignore the convoluted storyline and plot holes and just play the games because they are fun
Option 2(sadly this is what i did): Do several days worth of mental gymnastics to figure out the story line and minimize or eliminate plot holes
I'm guilty of doing Option 2 as well.
of you're a hardcore fan, you cant ignore flaws and shortcoming. you're too invested in the game to not care. casuals will not care and move past flaws.
Or option 3 (me): people who enjoy the gameplay mechanics but are also engaged in how the story goes.
Option 2 is what makes the series so enjoyable imo you have like a whole community just piece together every bit of story they can from all the games and when you figure some shit out it’s like the greatest feeling ever lol on top of the gameplay just being fucking amazing.. I feel most casual fan look past that fact but hardcore fans love the deep dive into sorting everything out
Option 3: accidentally overwrite your save and stop playing for a year, while you slowly get over it after several breakdowns
I started playing KH when I was 12. When KH2 came out my friends and I joked that we'd be in college by the time 3 came out.
....We're approaching our 30s now! HELL HALEY JOEL OSMENT IS A BIG BURLY MAN NOW!!! But yeah Nomura is a shit writer as it was never his passion so the fact that Kitase, VII's original director, -forced- "surprised" Nomura as director of VII was red flag #1.
Props for using strikethrough as humor.
I commented on other video a while back that some of us would have 1 or 2 kids by the time 3 is released
And the replies are basically “dude, we have”
Honestly.... watching this after your review on KH3 and my disappointment of the game as a whole. Tetsu should just draw and that it. He should never, ever write or direct a game. He just plainly sucks.
I'd say you're wrong given how the Final Fantasy 7 Remake looks. He's never failed to deliver on directing before on a game so he's just not that good at writing. Plus I enjoyed Kingdom Hearts 3 a lot. Yeah it had its problems but the overall experience was amazing for me which is what matters most. (Though I'll never like the blatant set up for future games)
Agreed. I like his designs, I like his flashy particle effects, but listening to those crappy dialogues is really unbearable. After playing the final boss in KH2, I was convinced that he really knew what I loved. I was wrong.
@@erichernandez1958 The FFVII Remake looking good is entirely because Nomura is just recreating an already established story by other people. He's just there to make it look pretty and epic which is what he's good at but the heart of what makes FFVII, and by extension its remake, appealing is all due to other people like Sakaguchi, Kitase, and Nojima who understand how to build a world, establish characters, and tell a proper story.
On the original project Nomura was only responsible for the limit break animation concepts and character designs while Kitase directed shit, Sakaguchi gave the base plot synopsis, and Nojima wrote most of the remaining story and character dialogue. If you want to see what FFVII looks like without those people involved then look no further than Advent Children and how bland and uninspired it feels compared to FFVII. Furthemore, just take a look at how the FF characters are butchered in Kingdom Hearts along with the Disney characters.
Trust me when I say that the FFVII Remake looking good has nothing to do with Nomura. Hell I wouldn't be surprised if it's Kitase and Nojima doing all of the heavy lifting considering Kitase is always the one doing all the press talks for the project. Nomura feels like nothing more than a false figurehead just for his name cuz Square probably knows Nomura fanboys will eat up anything with his name on it and it's a good tactic to draw in extra customers.
He’s lucky the product sells itself but he’s just dumb
Nomura is horrible. Dude’s career has been so easy
"Make kh3 accessible"
Nomura: Lets release an hd collection on ps4.
Team: Ok sounds good.
Nomura: And kh3 on ps4.
Team: Alright.
Nomura: But we won't release the collection on xbox one so no one understands the games.
Team: Why would we ev-
Nomura: Release kh3 on xbox one.
Team: ?!?!?!?!?
Funny Xbox just got the entire collection lol
Michael Yearwood I doubt anybody bought it
@@michaelyearwood6422 too little too late
‘Hey boss, uh, this carriage thing...I think we need, uh, horses or something to get it to move first’
‘Nonsense, once everyone sees how amazing our carriages are, they’ll be lining up to buy them. That’s when we add the horses, and corner the market!!’
*cricket chirps*
At the risk of sounding like some neck beard hipster. I actually don't have that hard of a time understanding the, albeit fucked plot.
I admit that kh was confusing AF and there are still things I know I missed but hey it could be worse,
It could as confusing as fnaf...
But it's not
It's not as hard to follow as a lot of people like to claim. People who say it's confusing are usually the people who only played 1 and 2 and got the rest of their info from the internet.
The Wettening it ain't hard to follow now that we got the remixes but when the games first came out I could see why people didn't catch on.
I can see where that's coming from, but I was one of the dudes who already had Nintendo handhelds on principle and a PSP because they were cheap as hell so I never had an issue. I totally agree that the remixes made everything WAY more accessible, though. All that content on one platform? UMPH, sexytimes.
The Wettening damn that's lucky...
A very good break down. However, I feel that you missed the reason why people want Kingdom Hearts 3 to come out. It is mostly because we want a final closure to this epic yet messed up plot and begin a new saga from scratch. I believe Nomura realized his faults already which is why he is trying to create as big a hype as possible before closing the chapter once and for all.
Though hard to notice at first, it is evident that the characters are being sort of being prepped to be untangled from the mess as it's implied in the end of DDD. Square's effort to connect the final dots and close previous loopholes is evident in 0.2 too.
Susmit DS I want Kingdom Hearts 3 to come out so I can say goodbye to the series forever
Susmit DS Its not going to be a closure to kingdom hearts just the xeinort saga my dude
+Coming In Second
What other convoluted mysery box bs is Nomura going to be able to pull out of his ass?
@@shenyongo a littrealy mystery box
"We are the people Square Enix has to win back" *laughs in Nomura *
KH: Nice, simple story
KH Chain of Memories: Eh, it's alright, interesting story ideas.
KH2: Love the gameplay, ZERO clue what's going on.
Everything further: What
The "side games" are important too. They are there for a reason...
@@nn8009 I agree, but they are called SIDE games for a reason. In KH, these "side" games are a *big* part of the main story. Most people are gonna take a look at Kingdom Hearts 1-3 and think "Oh, I should play these games in numerical order!" and then get fucked when they realize that they HAVE to play all the "side" games in order to understand the story.
Guys, they aren't side games though. There's nowhere where it says they are side games
@@ggs27 But people are going to assume that they're side games. Anyone from the outside looking in is going to see Kingdom Hearts 1, 2, and 3, and then all these other KH games with all these random names and make the logical assumption that they're just side games. KH's naming scheme is as much of a clusterfuck as the games' actual plot. This is why other long running series try to keep their naming consistent.
@@SymphoniaFly While the names are terrible, I still think that, apart from Dream Drop Distance, the plot isn't confusing, just convoluted.
I will say one more thing. I agree that it's a damn disgrace that Final Fantasy characters are not given stories or arcs in Kingdom Hearts like the Disney characters get, especially FF9.
Imagine the potential they wasted, they could have had Vivi and other black mages be a form of Heartless that gain conciousness (they literally look just like Heartless) kind of like Sora did. Zidane or the genomes could have been Nobodies, since they are also just empty vesels without souls. I'm tired of Squall and Cloud. I want to see Zidane crack jokes and hit on Kairi. Enough of Sephiroth, let me fight Kuj.... eh let's go with Beatrix. That would be cool.
The Moe Szyslak Experience feat. Homer auron had a arc
Yeah, and that was a highlight of the game, but not enough. I'd be fine if they even had one FF character arc per world or wherever it fits at least.
That is, assuming we get FINAL FANTASY characters, like ever lol, the sad truth is... you're not tired of Cloud fighting Sephiroth, you're tired of Belladona Blake fighting Adam Taurus (RWBY) PRETENDING to be Cloud and Sephiroth.
That's another problem with Nomura, he doesn't bring FF characters to KH, he hires random teens to cosplay chars he (Nomura) knows nothing about.
I would rather recommend you playing ANY of the Dissidia titles (ok, maybe not NT, haven't gotten to that one yet), fanfiction-y? YES! In character? ALSO YES!
I'm still gonna be hyped as shit for KH3 regardless, but I see your problem. It's honestly kind of a miracle this franchise is still going as strong as it is when it's known for every game becoming more and more convoluted in terms of lore, thus making it borderline impossible to understand what's going on unless you've played all 10 or so games prior.
I'll admit though, I have a lot of nostalgia for the series, so I'm pretty biased when it comes to the plot. There's also a sense of wanting to find out the backstory and inner workings of everything in this series that I know most people probably don't care about, but I love seeing.
What I think the plot needs most if fucking closure. Even for a "hardcore fan" like me, this stream of constant plot-related blue-balling is getting a bit ridiculous.
HEHEHE I AM A SUPAHSTAR VOICE [Curgly Croog]
... do you know how stupid you sound. "Near impossible unless you played all 10" how many series do you know where you can skip entries and know what's happening seamlessly? That's a sign of stupidly simplistic storytelling if I've ever heard one.
HEHEHE I AM A SUPAHSTAR VOICE [Curgly Croog] it's still going on because edgy teens relate to the edgy characters.
still love the games
Nimbus no I think a lot of the characters can be very annoying
"Make an accessible game, with Disney worlds integrated to the story and better written characters"
Big oof.
They like literally did throw all of the old plot in the garbage and used that to tease kingdom hearts 4, kh3 is just a cleanup and an advertisement.
Alex McMillion God I hope so. I am seeing all these characters now as a means to an end of explaining the story, cool as their designs are.
Kingdom Hearts 4!? .......oh my God no....
Coming in 2049.
Kh 4 plot : 7 time traveling goofys go back I. Time to stop this plot before it even started
@@zacharyjohnson7419 Imagine the franchise ends with the MCs ensuring it never happened. Like they go back in time and kill the Master of Masters or something
my big issue with this video... is that it doesn't really say anything. I have very real issues with KH's plot. But you don't really bring up any. You make a synopsis of KH1, then a shorter synopsis of KH2 then go off the rails discussing that Nomura is a character designer and his FF characters aren't how they are in the games. It's just a whole lot of nothing.
dizzy cee wöwsers
So basically the game became a mess due to Organization Xlll
The overarching point that he's trying to make is that Kingdom Hearts is messy. The lore, plot and back history are confusing; the characters, which I really agree with, don't interact like normal people which makes the dialogue and fluidity of scenes really really awkward. You really don't get immersed with the characters as much you could have in kh1 and in general you lose a lot of character in the other games, with an exception to bbs in my opinion.
Mark Marbun wtf are u talking about he just gave a crappy review on the series as a whole thats it.
So, why don't you say something he didn't?
I also want them to just reboot the story. It's so god damn dumb. I wish the game would take the same route as Final Fantasy where each game is a self-contained story mostly unrelated to the other games except for a few reoccurring traits.
I _think_ Nomura is deliberately designing Kingdom Hearts the opposite of how he would Final Fantasy games. -Especially since he got shafted from XV.-
Not happening. Kingdom Hearts will always be what it is now
Tbh if Kingdom Hearts was like that I probably wouldn't play it
I also want a reboot after experiencing KH3. Xehanort should have succeeded, used Kingdom hearts and nuked their stupid plot and the useless story they created with it. Then get new writers and fix this mess.
Felt like there was a schism between groups when making KH2.
Certain aspects made it seem like some writers/developers wanted to make it distinct from KH1, like same setting and principles, but with different characters and a bit of overlap.
Roxas and the Twilight gang (with Seifer and his goons) seemed like a fun setup, like they might embark on their own adventures as rivals. The Disney worlds felt empty, simply replaying their movie with no attempt to tie the characters to the greater plot, and the sudden glut of OCs with no major connection to Sora or the Disney characters.
Imagine if Roxas wasn’t Sora’s Nobody/Ven w/ amnesia, etc. but was just a regular kid that could use a keyblade. He and his friends get dragged into adventure due to the Nobodies going around trying to start shit with the new Disney Villains (using the new Disney Worlds) while Seifer and his crew act as rivals that alternate between allies and enemies. Insert new FF characters with occasional references to the events of KH1, and a small cameo here and there, and I think it’d be a fun standalone title.
Unpopular opinion
Kingdom Hearts 2 was the greatest game
Flutter Ball that is the popular opinion now
@Duckalie now??This dude(who made the video) is literally the only person I've ever heard that didn't like KH2...KH2 has been beloved since it came out,and fans saying its the best of the series are definitely nothing new
Flutter Ball that’s always been the popular opinion
@@bernardocarneiro1982 I don't think the guy in the video even said he flat out disliked it. He just pointed out how flawed it is compared to 1.
Mostly for the combat
Your fears have come to form....nothing has changed for the better (except the graphics). :3c
I have to kick off by saying that I do prefer Kingdom Hearts as a more complicated series and enjoy the complex narrative more than I do the simple one of KH1, though I do love both for different reasons. And yet I think there are some unfair biases being applied here.
For one, the scene you showed from 0.2 in contrast to how "simple" and "relatable" the first game was, is a cutscene set directly during the events of that same game, explaining a specific event from that game from a new angle. It's not inconsistant with the story presented to us in KH1, it's just a scene where a character comes out and says what they're actually doing instead of just doing it and leaving you to fill the blanks. The example you gave is actually an example of the series making the story easier to understand while the original game left things too vague to completely enjoy what was going on.
Don't believe me? Then be honest with me. Did you have any idea what was going on in the final cutscene of the game? Did you know what Kingdom Hearts was? Did you know why the door had to be closed? Did you know why Mickey and Riku had to stay on one side of it? At all? I love the game to pieces, but even after multiple viewings of that cutscene, I wouldn't have been able to tell you what was going on until it was later explained to me. At the very least, nobody will have followed the events on their first playthrough.
For another, you complain about unnatural dialogue from KH2 onwards and that nobody talks like a real person. No cutscene in Kingdom Hearts has more unnatural writing and nonsense pacing than the scene where Sora meets Riku for the first time since the islands in Traverse Town in KH1. That entire scene just jumps from one point of interest to the next with no transition and no effective reaction or explanation the people ought to do so within a conversation. While smaller, KH1 is full of moments like that. It's like there are entire lines missing from important conversations. The dialogue may be simpler, but that is as much a disadvantage as it is an advantage a lot of the time. People need to be free to say what needs to be said and KH1 just doesn't have that freedom.
When it comes to Tetsuya Nomura, I can't pretend to be an expert in the infrastructure of Square Enix, nor will I claim to be Tetsuya Nomura's biggest advocate. But it is alarming how much of your points regarding him as a designer, director, writer and even as a person are complete hearsay and guesswork. I'm sorry and I know you sort of acknowledge this, but a lot of those accusations about his shortcomings, feats and failures are either unproven claims or just veiled insults. It's theoretical supposition at best and a prejudiced opinionated assault on his character at worst. You're blaming him without any real evidence that shows he's to blame, other than subjects that people can rightfully disagree with you on. Even admitting that you don't know for sure after saying all that comes across as you giving yourself a security blanket after doing the damage already, like you're trying to cover yourself from accusations of slander while still giving people the impression that Nomura is to blame anyway. I don't find those assertations to be fair.
Those are my biggest issues. But to say just a few more words in defence of the KH series, the story isn't as confusing or as bad as people make it out to be. The details definitely get cloudy as there's just so much to keep up with after every game, but the stuff that you actually _need_ to keep up with - the core plot, if you will - is straightforward enough to follow. Here's a summary of KH3's plot in one sentence: A group of friends set out to rescue some allies from terrible fates while also fighting to save the universe from the threat of a villainous mastermind. That's the plot in a nutshell. Explaining it further obviously takes more time and the extent of the details to cover are a lot, but that's true of any story and as I said, understanding all of it is not necessary.
Even bearing that in mind, there are plenty of people who do like the story as it is (myself included, obviously, but I promise I'm not biased when I say that) and will gladly argue that the characters are well-written at present. So it's not completely fair of you to call the story bad when that's not a definitive fact nor is it even a majority opinion.
(Likewise, making a show of excluding Mass Effect 3 and Life is Strange from your well-written games list was just mean.)
holy shit
I know right
Cynical is that you?
Xackadee life is strange is CRIIIIINGE. It is so overhyped.
Xackadee sora became a progressively worse, unrelatable character with kh2, and hes worse in ddd. We havent gotten any good char development for sora since CoM unfortunately.
KH definitely has writing issues and too many plotholes, well written my ass. Back in the day it was simple but deep and interesting. Now the story is convoluted garbage with badly written characters like terra and ventus, and uninteresting villains and plot because there is no mystery and intrigue to the series anymore.
I starterd playing Kingdom Hearts at age 7-8,planned to buy a ps3 around age 12 to play KH3...
Now I am a lawyer,married,a father and still waiting for KH3.
Bruh father of two at 22? Well shit, what am I doing with my life.
Also you had KH1, KHCoM, KH2, KH 358/2, KH BBS, KH Re:Coded, and KH DDD. Plenty of KH to play between the years
So what?
GEMain No, a LAWYER at 22. You need about 5-7 years of law school.
Wtf? How old are you. There’s no way you’re a lawyer at age 22. Maybe if you were born in the 1990 and you’re 28 years old and yeah I would believe you.
This Man's timeline will be fixed by a complicated storyline that creates more questions than answers several years later
Personally, I think the biggest problem with the story of the games is that it tries too hard to be complex and ends up being convoluted instead. Like, the writers really wanted everything to be connected as some kind of surprise twist - which hurt plot points that I think could have been really interesting on their own.
Take Namine, for example. Is there a reason she had to be a Nobody with Kairi's heart and Sora's body, or whatever she is? I don't think so, other than the writers wanted to make her "relevant." She could just as easily have been her own new character with special memory powers just because, and it would have made just as much (if not more) sense that whatever she actually is, story-wise.
There are some pieces of the writing that I find genuinely engaging. Aqua's sacrifice at the end of BBS made me sad. I liked that part of the story. What becomes frustrating is the writers refuse to treat any plot elements as separate, and now Aqua, Terra, and Ventus have all magically managed to not age so they can appear in KH3, despite their game taking place a whole 10 years earlier. And of course the foretellers show up at some point, even though their story takes place EVEN FURTHER BACK, because why not? Is the Master of Masters secretly Sora's dad, or a previous incarnation of Sora, or both?? Probably, at the rate things are going!
So yeah. I feel like the story would fare a lot better if the writers recognized that events can be related without being intrinsically connected to everything that is happening at all times.
It's weird to say kh2 "messed stuff up" since kh2 closed everything. The series could have ended at kh1 OR kh2. It was BBS 358 and DDD that really added the crazy
But I guess that's just my opinion.
1 would've been a terrible place to end off, but I agree with you on 2 even though I love the sequels. Nomura is just becoming so damn senile with all the inconsistencies and shitty and extremely unnecessarily complex plot just for the sake of being complicated even though a lot of it makes no sense and as if they're just randomly throwing things in
30 people agree with you, I like to imagine all the extra history after KH2 (in release order) is just an alternative timeline where everything became far more messy
I will consider that Mickey's letter in the end of KH2 was written "SawconDeezNuts" Sora throwed it away and says "i will remember that!" Then KH ends
ua-cam.com/video/zS8FXhP-Lv8/v-deo.html
Here's the thing. What Kingdom Hearts 3 NEEDS to do is tie up all loose plot threads worth tying up. It's "supposed" to be the end of the Xehanort Saga (A.K.A. the Dark Seeker Saga) and thus, should wrap up everything so there can be a clean slate going forwards. Of course I don't have high hopes for this as Nomura has basically stated that he just makes stuff up as he goes along.
except x backcover that will undoubtly be at then of kh3 or beginning kh 4
if your video game saga spans almost 200 hours of gameplay, and some 9 games, maybe just maybe not all the plot threads are going to be neatly summed up in a single game. trash it all go back to basics.
+geneirai I don't know, KH3 seems (emphasis on seems) like its gonna have a clear plot thread.
They find 7 people to fight off 13 versions of the same guy, hopefully they do it so that he doesn't succeed in getting his mcguffin that can set off a second apocalyptic war, either they win or he wins. There.
literally the only unresolved plot threads from the previous games are "lol where did Riku get a keyblade for Kairi" and "WHATS IN LUXUS BOX? PORN??"
I can think of a lot more questions then that. But in the grand scheme of things, they are rather minor. For some questions, How does Xehanort and Eraquis related and how did they became what they are? How did Terra and Aqua join as Eraquis' pupils. What was the purpose of the Foretellers now? Are they related to the new main cast now? What is Kingdom Hearts? Why is it so cherished? And why did so many bad guys wanted it so bad? Or what is even inside Kingdom Hearts? Who is Kairi's grandmother? What are the fates of Roxas, Xion, Namine, that are still residing in Sora's Heart?
Those are just some off the top of my head.
Jacob FoxFires964
_(autistic reply incoming)(but that's how uncessarily convoluted this series is)_
*"How does Xehanort and Eraqus related and how did they became what they are? "*
*"How did Terra and Aqua join as Eraquis' pupils?"*
That's not information crucial to the plot. That could potential for new stories (whether it be games or other media) but that's it; all that matters is that Xehanort and his 13 Darknesses are the antagonists, while Eraqus' heart is the reason Terra doesn't get completely subsumed by Xehanort. Birth by Sleep's story still works even if it doesn't disclose the pasts of Terra and Aqua before becoming Keyblade wielders, or if they don't go too indepth of Eraqus' and Xehanort's years as pupils.
*"What was the purpose of the Foretellers now?"*
We do know Master of Masters did foresaw the Keyblade War, and more or less ensured that it would happen by introducing the necessary elements (conflict between the Foretellers). We don't know why he did so; but it's entirely possible he had the same kind of fatalistic attitude towards the timeline as Young Xehanort does as evidenced by his dialogue.
*"What is Kingdom Hearts? Why is it so cherished? And why did so many bad guys wanted it so bad?"*
You...do realize that this has already been answered in previous games? Multiple times in fact. It's the unified Heart of everything; worlds, people etc. (explicitly disclosed in Birth by Sleep, and in Nomura's interviews) and is the source of Light.(BBS again, 3D, hell even the fucking first game...) It's pretty obvious why people would want it for themselves. Artificially gathering hearts into one place could create facsimiles of the real Kingdom Hearts (either from Worlds Hearts in KH1, or People's Hearts in days-KH2)
It should be clarified that Xehanort doesn't want Kingdom Hearts. He wants to start a second war over the appearance of Kingdom Hearts that would be fought by whatever Keyblade Wielders are left in The World, but he needs it to appear in the first place. Ergo, his plan to recreate the X-Blade.
*"Who is Kairi's grandmother?"*
Is that really a question that needs to be asked, or answered? Not every character's gonna have a deep backstory entrenched in Kingdom Hearts' lore who has relevance to the plot (like Sora's mom) What, is the possibility that she's just a random denizen of Radiant Garden, who heard a version of the Keyblade War corrupted into a mythic fairy tale over many generations of oral tradition too mundane??
*"What are the fates of Roxas, Xion, Namine, that are still residing in Sora's Heart?"*
Um, that's more or less one of the plot threads of KH3, if 3D is any indication (or the entire handheld games really). And it could tie into the fact that they need to gather 7 lights to counter Xehanort's 13 darknesses.
You don’t need to rip into him because of his games......
You need to rip into him because of that GOD DAMN HAIRCUT, HE REALLY TRYING TO BECOME AN ANIME CHARACTER
That military dude dancing to simple and clean is one of the most amusing things I've seen lmao
Maybe Nomura really has to quit.I just keep waiting and keep accepting all this crap because of my loyalty to the franchise. It´s all just leaving out important information on purpose to keep you interested. It´s LITERALLY getting old. Like how many years am I supposed to wait for a complete story?
Leaving info out? don't you mean making shit up
Seinh Both. Touché
Oh man,this shit is so true. Good explanation.
I know the die-hard KH fans will defend the story like it's the most well written or easily understandable shit, but it's not.
I like Kingdom Hearts, I really do, when Simple and Clean rocks in, I get hyped.
But the story is like fragments of different puzzles yet they still forcefully try and connect them to make a picture.
You have to admit this story is a fucking mess, stop being blinded by fanboyism and nostalgia.
Maybe I'm an idiot, but I love when something double downs on being stupid.
You can just tell the story wasn't planned from the beginning and they've just been adding to it as they go along. That being said, this is my favorite video game franchise and I can understand the story very well presently. I can, however, understand why people have so many issues with it as it's very convoluted and the switch between consoles over the years is just not okay in my eyes.
+Pythagoras I don't see what's wrong with the fact that Nomura didn't plan out the entirety of the story arc beforehand. Why do you think KH1 had such a simple story? They were still testing things out given the questionable premise of a collab with Disney and FF. They had no idea it would be a hit, and many people thought it would be a failure around the time KH1 was announced. Of course, there are flaws within the story, but THAT'S the problem. HOW it was written, not when it was planned.
The story's fine, you clearly haven't played the games.
Nah, I'm still a fan of the series but even then I have to accept the story makes no sense and keeps adding stuff for sequels and too many games being released for too many consoles sucks. It's good that they made the HD ReMixes but still...
I'm not saying KH has the best story in the world, but if you play all the games it all connect together for me at least (mostly). Tetsuya nomura also isn't going to make the final fantasy characters their complicated selves from their own games, KH isn't about them.
Animeonline100 so why the f*ck is it disney × final fantasy then if the FF characters don't even act like them selfes.
Toni It isn't. Square stated that Kingdom Hearts has always been more about Disney, than FF.
So why is there FF in the first place when they aren't gonna use it proparly, it's just wasted potential.
Nowhere does it say that KH is a FF x Disney game, Kingdom Hearts is Kingdom Hearts. Squarenix is a video game company that created the FF series and creates KH games for Disney because KH is copyrighted to Disney as they own Kingdom Hearts. Square owns the FF characters and any other characters they decide to toss in that belong to them, they have put other characters from another series they own such as ''The world Ends with you''. This proves its just square putting characters they own into KH but not for serious reasons.
Yes, but final fantasy is still a part of the game along disney and they just had so much potential with all the characters and worlds and they cinda messd up and got the characters wrong, again just alot of wasted potential.
It's funny because i thought KHIII was supposed to be the closure to "The Seeker of Darkness Saga" (AKA Xehanort's) and now we've got Dark Road. And $#!t keeps complicating.
1:06
A visual representation of everyone whenever they hear Simple and Clean play during the intro
I disagree with you.... but, I’ll drop a like since there’s a ton of effort in this.
Subscribed 👌🏻
I was going to say the sme thing. Except I didn't like. Or subscribe. But I liked your comment.
^^^^
LazerzZ same
This was wholesome .
We need more people on the internet like you
All you’ve told me is that you prefer simple not super in depth stories. That’s your opinion, I get that. But this is Tetsuya Nomura we’re talking about here. He doesn’t do simple, not taking it self too seriously, stories.
@KnightCaster Yeah this series is anything but simple. That's what I love about it, I love watching the theory vids.
It's just messy I can enjoy in-depth stories but makes the story understandable
* always sunny in Philadelphia theme plays. *
Kingdom hearts 3 drops the ball
"When people say 'Kingdom Hearts 3 is so close!' I laugh at them."
Five days.
i mean to be fair this video was made like 2 yrs ago
@@skyeguy5521 the game was announced around a year later to be releasing though.
@@sarthakarora3212 yeah but in like e3 2013 they announced for a 2015 release. took em 6 whole years.
giant disappointment :(
@@8bitNuke i disagree it was bad
The fact that there's so much going on with the plot is to a big extent the reason why people who are hardcore fans like Kingdom Hearts so much; and it's done this way on purpose. Nomura wants you to have questions, he wants you to speculate, and honestly I like that a lot; with a caveat of course. Kingdom hearts III needs to answer ALL questions we have about the Xehanort saga (all the previous games). If that happens, everything you say in this video is wrong. If it doesn't everything you're saying is 100% right.
Also, there are pretty much no "spinoffs" in this series. That's why you can't understand the beginning of KH2 without having played Chain of Memories, or at least having researched what it was about. Pretty much all games in this series are cannon.
Well, but it's harder to get new people into the series.
VirgateSpy I feel like people who see 2.8 and how cool Aqua looks and everything will want to go back and try to get into it by playing 1.5 + 2.5 ...2.8 is obviously not for newcomers, but I don't get why it should be...this is a series of games with a continuous story line. this isn't like Grand theft Auto or call of duty
Kostas1601 That's why KH2 failed with me. I played the first game off a whim and was amazed and decided I will be waiting for part 2 then they came out with another game.... but it wasn't for the ps2. It was for the handheld--immediately became disinterested. I wasn't trying to buy an entire new restaurant (smaller console) just so I could have another slice of pizza.
People call the other games "spin offs" because the gameplay is no longer like it was in the first game. They call KH2 part of the "main game" because the gameplay returns to what it was like in 1 and because it also came out on playstation just like the first game.
I am not making this up these are actual "reasons" I found from the kind of people mentioned in this video "i'm not going to play any of the spin offs till kh3".
Yeah, I mean, I totally understand. You don't have the console so you can't play the game, of course you're going to get disinterested. To be honest I don't get irritated by things like that since I never had a PS2 to begin with. I've always found various ways around buying the console like borrowing it from a friend or whatever. It's annoying but they have to make money so they want to make lots of games, but they also can't make all of the games on the same console because they would end up being way too similar to eachother. Gaming companies do that kind of thing; all of them do.
On a more serious note though. THE STORY IS VERY VERY confusing, BUT, it's not actually that bad if you know ALL of it (do take note this requires like 20 fucking hours of research ON TOP OF playing every game) but hey, it's worth it. The characters have deep motivations (even though a lot of those motivations span the course of more than one game) the inner workings of the relationships each character shares with one another are DYNAMIC AS HELL (that is to say they are ever changing) LIKE REAL RELATIONSHIPS. The story moves without you the player acting on it which gives the protagonist a feeling of helplessness as he is yet again thrown into a foreign place that he doesn't quite understand where things happen REGARDLESS if he wants them to or not. Another great thing is that ALMOST EVERY CHARACTER is REALLY REALLY unique and interesting in the series, and with each instillation of the series, you get to see more and more of what drives a certain persons motives, or the growth a person undergoes internally. As for that weird artificial feel your getting from dialog... I gotta be honest, I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THAT IS, BUT, what I can tell you is that it's not a KH exclusive. I've noticed that weird way of talking across SEVERAL Japanese games, I believe it MIGHT have something to do with translation as WESTERN theatrics ARE quite a bit different from the theatrical performance of Japanese actors. To be honest though, I REALLY DO see where you're coming from, but this is simply what happens when you take something like a FF games story and stretch it over 10+ years, hell, the story itself REALLY IS CLOSE to a lot of BIG anime in complexity, it just kinda happens when you keep it goin for so long without wiping the slate clean every so often. To end this vid review/explanation I gotta fight ya on a few things here.
First- Sorry FF appearances aren't what you'd like them to be, but it isn't a FF game, they're just cameo's. ORIGINALLY (KH1) the concept WAS FF meets Disney, but it has LONG SINCE become KH+Disney.
Second- As a long time FF fan myself, I gotta say I think they do a pretty fine job of representing FF personalities, after all, Cloud IS a moody son of a bitch in his own game until Aerith (when his icy heart melts SLOWLY) and then kinda re-freezes again after her death.
Third- Development hell is a thing for all GOOD AAA tittles. Also don't forget the man who does MOST of KH (Namura) ACTUALLY HAD BEEN SAYING FOR YEARS that he wouldn't start KH3 till FFXV was completed.
Fourth- THE FUCK YOU MEAN "ALMOST RUINED" FFXV?! HAVE YOU SEEN THE BEFORE AND AFTERS FOR WHEN HE WAS DIRECTOR!?!?! Namura's FFXV was a MUCH faster paced and flashy game (WHICH THAT GAME NEEDED IN ITS FIRST HALF DESPERATELY).
I agree. One of the few things imo FF13 did right was its opening sequence, it was fast, exciting, and it never stopped abruptly till it finished (after that though....... it goes downhill).
FF15 opening gameplay high octane sequence is............ pushing a car. HOW EXCITING!! Even the highly panned FF8 opening sequence introduces us to a military school, which as an 8 year old, I found it badass as hell.
I totally agree. The story is only confusing if you treat other titles like spinoffs. They aren't. They all have some level of story importance even chi. It much more appropriate to treat the numbered titles to conclusions to massive arcs.
The opposite is true. The story is not hard to understand if you've actually played the games but it's just not very well written.
It's bad
Coming back from playing Kingdom Hearts 3, I love how the “final chapter” in the series still isn’t the final chapter. The game ends on ANOTHER cliffhanger. AGAIN. I think I’m done being hyped for anything in this series that isn’t KH 1 or 2
Kingdom hearts 3 wasn’t the final chapter to the series. It was the final chapter to the dark seeker saga aka the xehanort saga meaning the end of xehanort and organization 13. I hope it’s the end for them. The director said that this game wasn’t the last one in the series meaning not the end of Sora’s journey but the last one in the saga.
@@movealongnowDT I mean it's showing what the next saga is gonna be about. So yeah a cliffhanger but an important one. I'm hype for the next saga
Me too! I'm sick of all this sequel baiting!
That game is honestly a train wreck plot-wise. You spend the whole game playing through Disney worlds under the guise of "Sora needs to get strong again". Then when you clear all of those, suddenly everyone gets saved and you're ready to go to the final showdown. There was such horrible pacing, and absolutely no interesting character moments in any of the worlds. Just plop down organization character in world, tease Sora, and then summon a big useless heartless. Kingdom hearts 1 was SO good at handling this, idk why they just threw it out the window.
Plus Xehanort was massively MEH in this game. He isn't menacing at all.. What a waste.
Daku Souru None of the characters were interesting. In fact, they couldn't have less peronality. They just make everyone full of secrets with vague exposition and Zero development. KH3 is really like someone had no idea what he wanted to show and just let everything happen. No match for 1 and 2.
So I'm playing Kingdom Hearts III and they didn't implement even ONE of your requests in this video.
Not a single one.
ElusiveClarity They did less than ever! A total waste of Potential!
To me maybe the reason I like kh so much is because of its big and complicated story, it just makes me want to know more and play more! But I can understand why some people don't like it, i guess they prefer it simple and clean :)
I think the problem is Nomura is best at making ideas for what the characters are supposed to be in terms of demeanor and design, but not at creating the story for them to develop to that point.
honestly though he does curse whatever game he touches with unexplained development delays and writing changes. he is a human embodiment of a chaotic tornado.
although I have the feeling he honestly still loves kingdom hearts. I think he just needs to hire better writers to assist him and let them take the wheel of the KH series.
Watching this after playing KH3 is hilarious. The writing got worse... way worse
*"Kingdom Hearts Fans will buy anything"*
*Sees all KH fans excited for a Rhythm Game*
That will be the first kh game i dont play but i bet nomura will put some extremely important plot point in it.
@@roddybaba He does that for every game just to make a quick buck! If anything he's not treating it like a RPG series, but instead a cash cow franchise and that's sad because Kingdom Hearts doesn't deserve this treatment that Nomura's giving it. Fans have done a better job doing their own interpretations of the franchise and I guarantee that they can make a better version Kingdom Hearts than what Nomura has done. Just take a look at what he did to Kingdom Hearts 3.
BTW Kingdom Hearts is supposed to a RPG game not a Rhythm game!
When I first heard about Melody of Memory and the fact that Kairi was possibly going to be the main character, I was excited.....................But then I find out that it's actually a rhythm game with Kairi not even being playable, despite the fact that she's front and center on the box art. 🤦♀️
Yes, she apparently has a story in this game, but still.....
@@shinyneko8136 They say it's possible that she's gonna be playable, but yeah it's still stupid that they make a new game with Kairi as the main center in the box art and yet she's not playable?! That BS! Instead they should've made it as a regular RPG game where Kairi goes on her own adventure to find Sora.
Me, excitedly planning to buy melody of memory because the demo was super fun and me and my friend loved multiplayer mode: 👁👄👁
Lmao maybe its nostalgia and childhood attachment but I really do love the game haha. Even if it makes no sense it makes me happy 🤷🏻♂️
People love MGS for having a crazy conveluded story so why do people always complain about Kingdom Hearts story. I absolutely love it and how utterly ridiculous it is. I want it to be ridiculous, it's why I love the franchise. The concept of combining Final Fantasy and Disney is crazy in its self
I like how the plot of KH is internally consistent, so they don't need to retcon anything (like how they retconned a ton of MGS stuff)
imagine if mgs never retconned anything and actually tried to explain everything tho
Papa Slim I too, love convoluted and sometimes stupid narratives. But I also like Kingdom Hearts 1. And I know I'd enjoy the series a lot more if it cut the bullshit and went back to basics, as opposed to me just getting in on the joke. I know that because I played Re:coded, Days, and 3D back to back, in that order, and only one of those would get anything above a 6 from me. Spoilers, it was Re:coded.
Where are the nobodies in the KH1?
MGS story is only convoluted because it tried to tie every single story element.
Papa Slim because no matter how crazy it gets there is still a lot that can be taken as red. For example there are no alternate dimensions, people are mortal and will die if they sustain enough damage (with that threshold varying between cutscenes and gameplay), and there will always be an element of meta narrative (meaning the game is about a spy infiltrating a place, but it's also about you a person playing video games and the industry surrounding it).
4:23
I'm sorry... what... like, what don't you understand about that? How are those terms at all vague, or esoteric, or opaque, in any way? He's talking about a literal door, which must be locked from both sides. He's literally explaining the *ending of Kingdom Hearts*, the game you just fellated for being _simple_.
Also, on the FF characters: they aren't supposed to be the same characters as their source material. Hell, Cloud in KH1 is supposed to be a fusion of him and Vincent.
Disregarding the fact that along with character designs, Nomura often has a say in the actual _characterization_ of his designs (*especially* in FFVII), (also, do you really think character designers aren't privy to the characters they're designing?) the KH counterparts aren't supposed to be 1:1 likenesses.
They never were.
The_Echo As a diehard Final Fantasy fan......that literally makes no fucking sense.
What doesn't make sense?
There's no real reason to believe they're supposed to be the exact same characters.
Like, the FFX cast for example. Tidus, Wakka and Selphie are aged down to be characters who are friends with Sora, Riku and Kairi, living on Destiny Islands. Nothing from Spira exists in KH, much less on Destiny Islands. Is it really a surprise, then, that they share very little with the source material?
FF characters have always been alt-universe versions of themselves. They aren't ported in from their source material like the Disney cast, they never have been, that's never what they were going to be.
Glorified cameos, basically.
The_Echo You realize just because something is explainable doesn't mean it's excused
It "making no sense" in this connotation, means, "That's the dumbest plot device I've seen recently"
And yes, it's a very dumb plot device. Why even use the characters then? It's the same type of writing that's essentially destroyed Cloud's character in the first place
That's, unfortunately, not what "this makes no sense" means, in any context. It's not even a plot device, either.
It's just a premise.
You don't have to like it, that's just what they decided to do.
Like how the worlds have to be separate.
That's just the premise under which they've decided to work the narrative.
The_Echo There's just too much damn talking and not enough of getting to the point.
2 years later this is still relevant. I wouldn't have known until I checked the date
I actually thought the voice acting for Kingdom Hearts 3 would've improved.
For whatever reason there's awkward pauses to the next line.
They've gotten away with selling the same game five times, for full price.
BriBri317 While I'll agree that the final mix versions of 1, 2, and BBS were some bullshit, if you don't count them, the only games resold were 1, 2, Re:Chain of Memories, BBS, and DDD. And those were only about $20 when you think about the fact they were in a collection. Of course there's the re release of the re releases of those games, so it would have only been 3 times, for nowhere near the same price as "full price". Idiot
roxasmanable "While I agree that the final mix versions of 1, 2, and BBS were some bullshit"
Do you not even realize for how long people were begging Square to release the FM versions state side?
What the fuck? No they didn't
More than five times.
Kingdom Hearts 1
Kingdom Hearts 1 Final Mix
Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories
Kingdom Hearts: coded
Kingdom Hearts : recoded
Kingdom Hearts 1.5 HD remix for the PS3
Kingdom Hearts 1.5 HD remix for the PS4
That is so true and I hate tht! The only reason I've played all of them is because my best friend is a huge fanboy and he lets me borrow the games
KH1 is a far superior game, however KH2 had the best combat. Not as stilted as the 1st and not as spammy as deck based titles. Just my 2 cents, everything else you hit very well
Kh2 combat was too easy, not the best in the series at all.
I like BBS combat myself. To each his own. Noww go have an awesome day random internet person.
People underestimate how much of a hack Nomura is
Nomura went f*king insane after Kh com
YOU FREAKING NAILED IT WITH THE CHARACTER MISREPRESENTATION! It pains my heart when I constantly have to tell KH fans that Cloud isn't emo in his game. I swear he just designs the characters, call it a day and never play the games.
well why do you even bother telling them and why do you bother talking about 2 persons being different?
JohnnyCQC wanna know why they're like that because they're not the same characters from the Final Fantasy game these are different characters being represented in different ways.
He did say he wanted to make a different version Cloud that was on the edge between light and dark, is he allowed to make any alterations or new spins on FF characters?
The “spin-offs” are actually really good if you give them a chance. The story doesn’t get as much credit as it deserves. It’s constantly be called “convoluted” without people actually even trying. It’s truly a masterpiece how everything is pieced together. Idk, just my opinion. I understand this side, too.
Yeah I agree the story can get somewhat complicated but that's only if you haven't played previous titles. Even if something doesn't get explained right away it eventually does. I.e.Ventus Roxas correlation.
I'd say this is somewhat true. DDD is a mess though
totally agree sarah if you play the games in the order they released its not very convoluted of a story & generally easy to follow
@GEMain Yeah anytime one introduces time travel to a story things can get messy.I got it after they explained it but still KH has it's own rules for it too. DDD also butchered Sora's character.
don't see how soras charactor got butchered he was always a bit of a dope in the series
You’re one of the few people to put my thoughts into words. Nothing in the series has come close to Kingdom Hearts 1. If only that game didn’t end on A FUCKING CLIFFHANGER, then I could appreciate it as a stand-alone title and not have to worry about everything else. But it feels like there will never be a conclusive ending. They just keep making things more needlessly complicated so they have an excuse to make more pointless games.
KH1 is not as good as 2
@@insertnamehere2746 Trash opinion
@@EpicFilip yes i know your opinion is trash
They could have ended the story on 2 and it would have been perfectly fine, i completely understand the bias towards KH1, it really is a good game, but i'm not giving up Chain of Memories or KH2 because these 3 titles as a trilogy make up for a MASTERPIECE of a story.
I definitely agree that the first game was the best.
* The combat had some weight to it while still being fast and fun, like a 3D Secret of Mana. It actually felt like you were hitting your enemies, instead of swinging a stick at them. The sequels focused on flashiness (and shitty QTEs) over substance.
* The writing went from decent and comprehensible to *utter shit* after the first game. "Nobodies" is an ironically apt term for most of the characters introduced in 2 and beyond, because that's literally what they are to me: NOBODIES. Disney villain legion of doom > forgettable anime characters with black coats and stupid "x" names.
* The worlds were fully explorable with tons of goodies and secrets to find. And it actually had platforming in it. Yes, some of the platforming was bad (looking at you, Tarzan), but it was really good in other places. The sequels were mostly empty hallways + enemies to fight, and that's it.
* They hid the dodge roll move behind a drive form in the second game. The fuck?
* The Disney worlds and characters actually mattered. They weren't just puppet show retellings of their respective source movies. They had pertinence to the overarching plot.
* Traverse Town > Twilight Town.
They hid dodge roll behind a Drive Form that WASN'T available in America and just appeared exclusively in Japan with the Final Mix.
And KH1 was definetly the BEST KH (with BBS in my opinion, and i'm not speaking about gameplay), simple and easy to understand.
KH1: Gotta find my friends
KH2: Gotta find my friends, but in the mean time i will wander doing absolutely nothing in different Disney Worlds
KH3: Gotta find the power of waking, but in the mean time i will wander doing absolutely nothing in different Disney Worlds, but this time with better meanings behind why i'm here.
@MisAnthro Pony KH story started to get convoluted and bad after KH1, when all this shit about Nobodies and Heartless, darkness and light started.
KH2 started all this shit and BBS worsened, KH3 was the result of a bad written lore.
Story:
-KH1
-KHBBS
-KH3
-KHRe:COM
-KH0.2
-KH2
-KH3D
Gameplay:
-KH2
-KH3
-KH1
-KHBBS
-KH3D
-KHRe:Coded
-KHRe:COM
@MisAnthro Pony KH1's story wasn't high art, but at least it didn't actively erode my IQ and brain cells the way KH2 and its sequels did. Definitely disagree about the gameplay. The only KH game that I feel can be considered an improvement on the original is Birth By Sleep. KH2 simply stripped out almost everything I loved about 1 and replaced it with drive fusions and senseless button mashing.
I don't really agree with this, but I can see you're point of view. Final fantasy characters are off, and the plot is super confusing. But I love everything about this series still. I love the characters epspecially. The character development for this series is off the charts. The only character with little to no character development is Sora, but I like his simplicity. Every time a play one of these games it always brings a smile on my face and invokes a lot of emotion. It always has some child like humor mixed in which is super refreshing, but when it's time to be serious they are and I feel it tackles a much deeper meaning behind each of the scenes. I honestly just love this series and I love long cut scenes and dialogs. It's like I am literally playing in a movie.
The least developed character is still Kairi. She's been in the series since KH1 yet very little about her is ever explored. Namine and Xion who are both somewhat extensions of her with their own persona's get far more engaging development in their respective titles but Kairi is still just in the background too much. What's more is for years it's been building towards Kairi and Sora being a thing together but it really doesn't feel like it will be satisfying due to a lack of development for Kairi.
The characters with a bit better development are probably Riku, Roxas and Aqua but they aren't without their flaws too.
But this isn't a movie, its a game.
Riku is only 1 year older. And they're both teenagers in kh1. Sora just has a kiddy voice for some reason lmao. Just thought I'd note that since you don't know what you're talking about. Riku didn't fall to darkness because he's older. that's a stupid explanation. He fell to darkness cause his dick personality he had. his personality itself wasn't all pure in kh1. And then you say that Donald and goofy left sora because they're "fake assholes". They left him because they're royal orders. They even said it in sad tone, and told sora "sorry" as they left. And later on say "I guess we're gonna have to defy the kings orders" and stand by his side. I'm just gonna stop you right there. You clearly don't know what you're talking about
Riku never fell into darkness. That would imply he turned into a heartless. But I do agree that this guy doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.
blozzybabe2 yeah basically what I was trying to say lol..
blozzybabe2 it really was lol.. I literally couldn't even finish the video because there were so many errors which as a long time HUGE kh fan bothers the hell out of me. Like if you're gonna talk down on such a big and beautiful franchise, you have to at least know what you're talking about 😂
Ah. Well welcome to the community. I do recommend playing ALL the games in story order if you haven't already. Although you can skip Re:Coded. Its literally there for no reason 😂
SoakedSock He gave into darkness. That's how Ansem possessed him.
Kh3 doesn't feel like a kingdom hearts game
I heard it feels like a birth by sleep 2 or a dream drop distance 2.
"You basically got Kingdom Hearts 3, 4, and 5 right here."
You mean 1.75/2, 0, and Jumping the Shark?
watching this in 2018 and I also want a King of the Hill level, make pocket sand an actual attack
Kingdom hearts makes me sad in a different way. It makes me emotionally sad, like i wanna cry at points. That's what makes it good, it lets you connect with the characters.
"Kingdom Hearts 3 is soooo close" - 2 years later...
I don't want it anymore take it back.
@Games At a low-low price of $60 for the full version I hear
I stopped getting hyped for it early 2017
11:36 well shit, he was right. it was released a week ago and i'm writing this three years after this video.
vVRichardVv I also only found this Video when it was already too late. I was so blind!
Sora is also a teenager from the beginning and Riku is just a year older
Kingdom hearts was my first ever Disney stuff without me even knowing about it. I thought all the disney people were all made up for kingdom hearts until my wife blew my mind telling me these people have their own movies.
Your... wife?
This implies that you are a full-grown adult, and despite speaking fluent English, you somehow went your whole childhood without ever having any significant Disney exposure.
....HOW?!?
Were you raised in a bunker or something? Because I guarantee you that Disney has been attempting to break into it all this time. ;)
Hahaha. Yeah I just never heard of Disney before as a kid always been too busy. I mostly grew up with superhero stuff and nickelodeon and cartoon network lol.
I guess you're just one of the anomalies. Clearly you weren't starved for entertainment. I teach preschool and superheroes are as popular as ever. :)
You deserve a badge of notability for _never having encountered anything Disney until adulthood._ That’s rare indeed, hope you enjoy this magical mayhem!
Incidentally, I have two other questions, if that's all right:
1. Do you live outside the U.S.?
...and...
2. Were you home-schooled?
Those are the only two realistic possibilities I can conceive of. (Living in a bunker is a little less realistic.)
Except the writer for Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2 was written by the guy who wrote FF7 and FF10.
I've always said that Tetsuya Nomura did the most damage to Final Fantasy XV, and the current director only give the final blow.