Thank you for posting this informative public service video. The heavy-duty industrial grade NEMA 14-50 receptacles (Hubbell, Bryant) are constructed of fire-resistant Bakelite rather than injection-molded plastic, and their 4 contact springs are heavy-duty with heavy plating, specifically designed for thousands of insertion/removal cycles rather than a few dozen. They also feature specially plated clamp-style wiring connections with set screws which must be carefully tightened using a calibrated torque wrench. A side-by-side comparison is compelling, and there are a rapidly-growing number of photos of melted/scorched/burned NEMA 14-50 outlets posted on the Internet. Sadly, many of these dangerous receptacles were installed by licensed electricians. Less-expensive, lower-quality NEMA 14-50 receptacles are unsafe for EV charging and should all come with a warning that they are not designed for and must not be used for EV charging applications. Given the risk, home improvement stores (Home Depot, Lowes, ACE Hardware, etc) should completely stop selling them, and online stores should be required to have detailed warnings. The national wiring codes should also be updated appropriately. No one should die or lose their home over this issue.
That said, whenever possible an EVSE should be permanently installed with suitable heavy gauge wiring rather than using NEMA 14-50. The Laws of Physics dictate that I*I*R heating occurs in wires and connections whenever there is electrical current, and today's home EVSEs draw up to 48A@240Vac (11.52kW). THAT'S A LOT OF POWER. When you draw that amount of 240Vac current steadily over several hours, the wires and connections GET HOT. Direct wiring eliminates one set of temporary connections that are likely to degrade over time and overheat with repeated usage.
The price of the Industrial Grade Hubbell and Bryant NEMA 14-50 receptacles has dropped significantly (8/2023) - about $75 - now that supply is catching up to demand. Meanwhile, lots more online reports and images of $15 NEMA 14-50 receptacles failing and melting/catching fire. Please hire a licensed, experienced electrician and consider a safer hard-wired EVSE installation, especially now that NACS is being adopted for EV charging in 120/240Vac North America, the Tesla (Gen 3) Wall Connector is a good value with a large installed base and excellent safety and reliability record.
I checked both Hubbell and Bryant catalogs and was surprised to find they don't use Bakelite anymore. They are showing glass filled thermoplastic. Not too happy about that. Eaton uses the same.
I’m an electrical contractor and one thing you can do is increase the wire size to 4 as a heat sink … the thicker the wire the less chance you have of a 50 cheap Leviton 14-50 of over heating . . Don’t ever use less than 6 though . Good video to re think that extra prong we never use !
If you're an electrical contractor then you know that the amps rating for a circuit is NOT FOR CONTINUOUS DUTY - it is for max 85% - at least here in California that's the case. Upsizing the wire isn't good enough - you must have at least 60A circuit to pull 50A continuous through it.
4 gauge wire is rather difficult to route. Not sure having three cables (assuming 2 phase or split phase) of that size will fit in a 1 inch conduit. But it is an interesting idea.
Yes, prices are triple of when I did my NEMA 14-50 installation video back in 2020. I still recommend installing the 14-50 since most EVSE use that plug. The Eaton 5754N is also a good option. The Bryant 9450FR is a good deal - thanks for the suggestion.
Thanks for providing the alternatives! It obviously helped to shake up the marketplace. As of August 2023 Amazon has Bryant at $49 and Hubble is down to $88!
It appears that the Hubbell/Bryant manufacturer(s) switched over from 1930's Bakelite to modern injection-molded glass-filled thermoplastic to satisfy the increase in demand brought on by EV adoption. There continues to be significant quality, ruggedness and safety differences between the consumer-grade and more expensive industrial-grade receptacles. Consumer-grade receptacles are designed for relatively infrequent use and intermittent loading.
Watched old video and you convinced me to upgrade from the cheap Menards 14-50 to Hubbell. Went to shop for another Hubbell for my brother in laws house and saw the price....then saw Bryant and did a search...found this vid...buying Bryant 14-50. Thanks for the info! (already have the 14-50 mobile plug)
Great video - thanks. I actually wound up just recently buying the Hubbell. Your first video was the reason I bought it :). I wound up purchasing it from a local Electric store here in NJ and I only paid $38. I had to wait about a month for it to get into stock though. One extra cost to consider is that the faceplate for the Hubbell is non-standard. I wound up paying almost $20 just for the faceplate. Another point on the GFCI - My Juicebox 40 specifically says not to use it with a GFCI outlet. The Juicebox has GFCI built in. I believe other manufactures have the same recommendation. Also, good to know that the Bryant is similar to the Hubbell. I did not realize this.
All EVSEs should have built-in GFCI protection because you need to be able to charge outside. And I’ve heard that it’s never good to have multiple GFCIs in line. But the NEC doesn’t list any exclusion for EV charging. So I’m not sure what’s the “best” thing to do. Electricians commented on my original 14-50 installation video that the breaker should have been GFCI per code. So I upgraded it in this video ua-cam.com/video/BixGQisysDc/v-deo.html
@@handydadtv Two GFCI in line won't harm themselves or the person using the outlet. You just can roll the dice which one shuts off when something happens, if the tripping value is identical on both. Greetings from a German electrician (just randomly got your video recommended to me, probably because I looked up the type of plug well over a year ago...)
@wiedapp Hello Germany! Since EVSEs supposedly have internal GFCIs without a test button, they must do a self test before every charge. Is it possible that’s when a GFCI breaker can pop? People have quoted ChargePoint’s instructions that it should not be installed on a GFCI protected outlet.
@@handydadtv Well, that would need to be tested, I think. On the other hand: We have mobile GFCI here for some applications (worker protection mandates them sometimes, if it is not determinable if the used outlet is behind a GFCI already) and you can use them in line with a regular one. These have a test button and if you look at the schematics of how that test button is wired inside a (any!) GFCI, the test doesn't affect another one. As long as the test mode in the chargers doesn't bridge live to ground, you should be good to go. Usually the bridging via the test button happens between one output contact (for ex. live 1) and one input contact (for ex. neutral) of the GFCI, so the device 'sees' some current missing and then it shuts off. Furthermore: If your local code requires that a certain type of outlet has to be behind a GFCI, what do you do: a) follow code or b) follow manufacturers instructions and not follow code? If we here want to operate something without a GFCI, we have to hardwire it by code. I mean, we don't have building inspections like is common for you over there (please correct me, if I'm wrong), so if something is not to code no one will see it. But if something happens because of that, your insurance gets a major homerun and you get nothing... And, as I said: The only thing that can happen is, that you have to look on both devices, if there is a situation, because you can't be sure witch one trips first. More annoying than dangerous.
I had the Leviton 14-50 outlet from homedepot, 50a dual pole fuse, on a 1989 150a panel, with a Gen 3 Tesla wall charger. The setup created a scary humming at the panel at 48a. I figured it was my old panel causing the humming so I lowered the charge amp's to 40a on my Tesla app. Which is when there was little to no humming heard at the panel. After watching your video I replaced the Leviton with a Bryant for safety and even ordered a new 200a panel with all new fuses which is arriving this weekend (11/19/22). To my surprise the Bryant 14-50 outlet with my old panel and 50a fuse didnt hum at 40a, or at 42a, 46a, and not even at 48amps! I am still going to replace my old panel, and loving the 42mil/hr new faster charge rate. Fyi: I touched my Bryant outlet and the box it is in after 2 hours of charging and it is cool to the touch. The fuse in the panel though was pretty warm like my Gen3 charger wire going to the car. Leviton 14-50 outlet diffiantly should not be used for car charging. Though it cost me about $14 and the Bryant cost me $50 I have to say the Bryant 14-50 outlet was money well spent.
If you have a 50 amp circuit breaker, you should not charge at more than 40 A. Code requires a 25% headroom on any circuit. So for a 50 amp breaker you should not charge at more than 40 A. Your breaker was humming because it was very near the trip point.
Use the lowest charge rate necessary to recharge your daily commute. No point in stressing everything to charge in 2 hours when your car sits idle for 10. I charge at 15 amps now and it’s still typically done by midnight.
For me, the NEMA 6-50 is the way to go. I use the outlet to charge my MY and on occasion my wife uses the outlet to her electric kiln. Thanks for the great videos.
Good timing. Telsa just stated that they are no longer supplying UMC with car and they are out of stock on line. I put in Hubbell 14-50 in anticipation of home charging w included UMC. Wish I'd have hard wired instead. Cost of outlet+GFCI breaker+UMC that I have to order now is a push compared to hard wiring charger (I know its not a charger but...)
Thanks. I’ve been hearing horror stories from people who charge their cars on $10 Home Depot receptacles and have them melt. I was about to buy the Hubbell but went with the Bryant instead to replace my two $10 receptacles.
I also recommend charging as slowly as possible on a daily basis. Just because your charger can do 40 amps doesn’t mean you need to always charge at that rate. My daily rate is only 15 amps which takes around 7 hours. That keeps everything cooler.
If you're going to hard wire, then put in a 60A breaker!!! Then you can charge at 11Kw instead of 9KW. Code says you can only draw 80% of the circuit's rating for continuous duty. So with a 50A breaker you have to set your charger down to 40A draw, which is 9KW. But a 60A breaker is enough to let you draw 48A< a full 11.KW> (Not alll level 2 chargers can draw/charge that much but SOME do - and they MUST be hardwired if over 50A.
Why? Most EVSE units max out at 40 amps. Most cars max out at 9.6 kWh as well for AC charging. 99.999% of home owners will never even benefit from a 40 amp EVSE.
There is no car that charges at 50A. The code asks only for 40A for car chargers. 50A is already a really good over head. Tesla home chargers, or most chargers will max out at 48A, but never really get there. 9kw/ hr is typical. Not the rated 11.5kw
Thanks again for a great video. I went with NEMA 6-50 based on your second video, still got a Hubbell and it works great. Dont understand why more people just don't go with 6-50 for their level 2 charging install. Ok, 14-50 gives more flexibility in the use of the outlet, sure, but my charging outlet is pretty much dedicated to charging my Tesla, so save money and go with 6-50. Even the 6/2 wire is a bit cheaper than 6/3 which, as you pointed out, isn't even used by the car for charging
@@colinpovey2904 You are correct, so what i did is I bought a NEMA 6-50 to NEMA 14-50 adapter from Amazon for $20. Now I can plug in just about anywhere
I installed a Wall Connector when I purchased my EV. We installed a 60 amp circuit. Got a little more juice. But had to hard wire it. It was an expensive project but I only have to do it once.
I bought a Bryant 6-50R from Amazon and it works…. buuuut the ground terminal screw (flat head) stripped when I torqued it to spec of 30 lb-in. It’s been too long to return it so I’ll see about a warranty claim, but I’m planning to replace it with a Hubbell 6-50R that has the metal clamps and not just a set screw. The interior plastic housing is also white on my Bryant outlet, maybe the 14-50R is generally the same but for some reason the 6-50R has different design between Bryant and Hubbell. Honestly at this point I should really just hardwire the EVSE, but I use it at my in-laws house a couple times per month and it’s pretty handy when I do.
@@handydadtv Lol, yup. I was using the outlet in a box for the past couple months, but the box was just loose on the floor near my panel so I decided to finally get everything properly mounted and secured to the wall. On the bright side, I’ve got conduit shaped & mounted, the box is on the wall, wire is pulled to the panel and pretty much all the hard parts are done. I’ve still got the slow charger (L1 EVSE) and my BMW i3 has a gas range extender, so I won’t be totally out of luck even if I’m lazy and don’t get the L2 hooked up again right away. BTW I’ve really enjoyed your videos on this, it’s been helpful to get a DIY perspective that includes best practices as you learn more details. I’ve watched a bunch of professional electricians videos on this stuff as well - I feel like your videos complement those well and fit right in with expert guidance in a very approachable way. So thanks for making these.
Decent video, short but to the point. My only comment is a general one; always check what is proper electrical code for your location, you don't want to do it wrong and need to rework it later.
A GFCI breaker is not required if you have an outlet for your EVSE. That segment is a bit confusing because some EVSE's say you should not use a GFCI breaker. Amazon isn't a good 'price guide' lately, I'm usually comparing between a brick and mortar's website and Google to get an idea of what something *should* cost.
@@handydadtv It depends on what version of the NEC your state or locality is using. The requirement that 240V outlets be on a GFCI is a fairly recent one, and your state or locality may not have adopted that NEC yet. Some states are still using the 2008 NEC and some are still using the 2014 NEC.
@@brianleeper5737 Agreed. Most chargers have built in GFCI and recommend not being on a GFCI circuit. Hopefully NEC will address this issue and rewrite the code.
@@jeffwilliams8179 I doubt NEC will revise it because a 240V outlet can be used for things other than an EV car charger. So the NEC wants that outlet GFCI protected when little Johnny comes along and decides to plug something else into it. The best way to avoid this hassle is to simply hardwire the charger so there is no outlet at all. Let the EV charger's built in GFCI provide the shock protection.
Love the video. After 5 years of 32A charging with a Home Depot Leviton my Tesla is starting to have High Temperature warnings. Amazon is currently selling the Hubbel for $70 and Bryant for $49. I was going to go with Bryant but I decided the $20 isn't a big enough savings. Neat idea about the 6-50 since I don't have a neutral wire anyways but Hubbell 6-50 is $33 + Tesla 6-50 adapter is $45. Is it a code violation to not have the neutral wire to that outlet? Next I have to buy a torque screwdriver!
One more tip: Spray Deoxit into the outlet (whichever one you buy) if you need to plug/unplug frequently. Deoxit DN5 can be used on live circuits since the can contains nothing that can ignite if there's a spark.
Deoxit is great and I use it all the time. Every 6 months I’ll clean my contacts with 0000 steel wool followed by deoxit to keep the terminal in good shape
We have to upgrade. The Prius Prime charges fine (and slow) on 120v, but two of them on one line was...dangerous. We're planning to upgrade, but don't need 50A for the Primes (and don't plan to replace them anytime soon). What about running 220v to 20A circuit and going with a 6-20 plug and one of the Level 2 chargers that work with that? Smaller breaker. Smaller plug. The Prius Prime max charge rate is 8A, so 2 Primes on one circuit still brings us to only 16A on a 20A circuit running two plugs. Or would you just go hardwire instead?
If hardwiring is an option, that’s always what I’d choose. Also, the Prime won’t be your last EV. If you’re running a new circuit, use 6AWG minimum and do it once.
I''m also in the hardwired camp unless there is a good reason to choose 14-50. Another cost savings that come with hardwiring is from skipping the extra conductor for the grounded (AKA 'neutral') conductor. All the EVSE I am familiar with only use two hots and the grounding conductor. If e,g, Romex is used, 6/2 can be purchased instead of the 6/3 that a 14-50 receptacle would require.
I have that same emporia charger using the 14-50 plug and had a UEFI breaker. It kept tripping for no apparent reason. Emporia support said their chargers already have UEFI protection built in and I needed to replace my breaker with a standard one. Once I did that no issues. Same deal with the FORD optional EV chargers. It specially says not to use UEFI breakers. The ford mobile charger that comes with their EVs call for a UEFI breaker.
Keep it in mind though that electrical codes may require you to install a disconnect switch if the charger is hard wired since it is an electronic device that is prone to failure
@@handydadtv I can't comment about whether a disconnect is required, but if a disconnect is required, the code requires tha it be clearly visible from the equpment and the distance must not exceed 15m (50 ft). Your breaker in the panel almost certainly does not qualify.
I had the Hubbe installed and it was worth it but I paid less than $100 for it. The plug cycles is not really an issue because I use an RV quality extension cord so I don’t have to back in and I only unplug the mobile adapter when I’m going on a trip. We also have the Tesla wall connector for my wife’s car but if I use that the cable is behind her car and see can’t back out without unplugging it. It just works better with each car having it’s own unit.
Thank you!! This video answered every question I had about what is 6-50 vs 14-50, and why would someone hardwire vs use the 14-50 plug that comes with the EVs I’m looking at.
Note that in quite a few areas of the country you do not need the GFCI breaker for a Nema 1450 outlet. And since the charger itself has protection if the only thing you’re ever going to plug into that outlet is a charger you are just as safe as you would be as if you installed the GFCI breaker. But it does vary by state depending on which version of the national electrical code they are currently using.
Just to add to what you've said, many have reported their charging being interrupted on GFCI breakers. My state doesn't require a GFCI breaker and, as you said, since I'll only be plugging in a charging station anyway, which has the protection, I'm fine. Now, there is indeed a VERY GOOD POINT in simply not using an outlet period. The downside is you can never unplug your device if you want to take it with you, etc.
In 2.5 years, I’ve taken my UMC on a handful of trips and never touched it. I try to choose hotels with destination chargers or I just Supercharge when needed. One time, at a rural AirBNB, I could have used the UMC but left it home. 🤷🏻♂️
Watching your video and cracking mistakes you might’ve missed one on the plug outlet where you were showing copper wires were the insulated wire wasn’t covered completely. There was copper exposed, which could cause arcing and eventually a fire all right awesome video keep it up.
Thanks for the informative videos! I’m still convinced that hardwired is the best option, in the end. Went from 14-50 but needed the extra ~50% faster charging speeds, so hardwired Gen3 Wall Connector is the way to go
I know they are no longer used, but all my 50 amp outlets in my shop are nema 10-50 and I have never had one fail, even when running a 5 HP compressor! Most are Eagle brand but the plugs are all Leviton. Being old they seem to be a higher quality.
@@handydadtv The compressor is on and off, I never measured how much current the lathe or mill use. I just dug out an old Leviton welder outlet 6-50 and it's a lot better built that the new range outlet i have in my parts box!
Something not mentioned here is that you should be pushing at most 40A through the 14-50 outlet regardless of make. I wonder if many of those melted sockets were people trying to charge at 48A. Not saying an industrial outlet shouldn't be used, but if the outlet is rarely unplugged and you're not trying to push more than 40A through it, and it is properly installed (torqued), then many outlets, industrial or not, should work. I've had a 32A charger plugged into an Eaton 6-50 surface mount outlet for 7 years and no problems. The plug was only removed once when a surge knocked out the charger, and I replaced it with a new one plugged into the same outlet.
You can get Hubbell for 80 bucks still, but hard wire is way to go, safer, more power and less conductors and no plugs, thhn wire and emt conduit are about the same price as buying the Hubbell and 4 wire. Great video
I am installing a Tesla wall charger. I would like to have a Nema 14-50R as back up. I don't want to spend the $130 on a GFCI breaker 50A. What will happen if I just use a regular breaker?
If you’re getting the wall charger inspected, don’t install the outlet until after the inspection. Worst case scenario (other than potential electrocution) is a home inspector might flag it when you go to sell the house.
Second worst case scenario: you have an electrical fire and the insurance company doesn’t pay out because of code violation. They WILL investigate before settling, rest assured; it’s standard operating procedure.
@@DanielinLaTuna I learned that when you deal w car accidents, or insurance companies, you need to get a lawyer. They get you to buy insurance by promising you a bunch of stuff. And when the claim comes, they don't want to pay. You need to get the right lawyer.
EV owner since 2014 and I firmly agree with you. Most people will never have a need to unplug their EVSE so why pay extra for the socket you'll never need.
@@handydadtv I have a 32 amp Bosch Powermax. In 2014, when we purchased our SparkEV, Chevy was offering a $500 rebate on the purchase of one so I got it for something like 50 bucks. Bosch actually OEM'd the unit from Delta but it hasn't skipped a beat in all these years and takes care of the 2020 Bolt with ease.
In technical terms, a hardwired charger would still be an 'outlet'. But it wouldn't be a receptacle. At least in the States. Sorry, couldn't help myself. Helpful video, thanks.
One benefit of installed an outlet especially a Nema 6-50 is that welders use that plug. So you can unplug your ev charger and plug in your welding thus serving dual purpose.
Question for hard wired installation and avoid outlet, is it ok to just just use a 60 A dual breaker from Lowes or Home Depot? Or do I still need the $150 dollar breaker? Sorry I'm just a little slow. I did buy the Emporia Charger. Thanks for your video and alternative.
It's worth checking codes in your area. A GFCI is not required everywhere. It is true the latest electrical code does call for it. There will be a time when we must use GFCI breakers. Some portable units do a ground fault check and will trip GFCI breakers, AFCI maybe better in that case. Plug in EVSE's are probably going to be a thing of the past once everyone adopts the new codes.
For public parking, the apartment complex should provide secure public charging stations. Even if they let you install a 14-50 from your unit, people would steal your electricity when you weren’t there.
So this particular Hubble receptacle is actually made and rated for 240volts & 50 amps. The available neutral is to run miscellaneous lights and carry the unbalance load back to the panel. It is a current carrying conductor just like the two other hot circuits. The ground is like an emergency pressure relief valve and is used infrequently during a short or arch and sends that back to the panel and to the earth to prevent the melt down of the wires and helps the breaker to turn off. All of these features are what you want. So the Hubble is a great receptacle (Plug) and professionals use them all the time… even in their own homes. Hubble makes durable, long lasting products. Of course, you should buy the appropriate plug of your choice and certainly use the configuration that the manufacturer wants you to use. To get an even more durable Hubble receptacle, get the Hospital grade which has a green dot stamped on its face. Your EV plug will get a lot of electrical excercise on a daily basis. Don’t bet your life on a receptacle that is cheaply made. How much is your life and the lives of your family worth to you? I’m just ask’n?😊
Too late...already got it based on the previous video. LOL Only $98 back then. I had a 50A outlet installed as part of the build for our new home but I see from this and other sources they made a mistake. The breaker is NOT GFI. I ordered a Chevy Bolt (I'll not see it for at least 6 months) and thought I would take the $500 charge card. I think that I will change that to the installation offer to get a second opinion on the set up. Ya, I bought the outlet already but I've learned a lot more since and will probably remove it and go hard wired now. Good video and the price of a GFI breaker "shocked" me. LOL
Thanks for the video. I too found the Bryant outlet at Grainger. Be sure to order the matching face plate as well, as there are similar but slightly different face plates that are incompatible.
Unless you're frequently running high current welding equipment and car chargers, then regular $10 4-prong outlets from Home Depot for your average residential shop is more than adequate. They can easily accommodate 240v air compressors, table saws, and auto lifts, etc. If you need a car charger, it's actually best to just hard wire the thing.
Hey, look! When plugged in, that cord cap at 1:20 has its ground pin... on top. I guess this settles the "Where should the ground pin on a mounted edison receptacle be?" question...
What RV weatherproof enclosure with fit the larger 2.4" diameter of the commercial grade 14-50? The faceplate on most housings is for the smaller off the shelf receptacles.
It's absolutely true that using a hardwired charger cost about the same as using expensive GFCI breaker and high quality outlet. I was lucky that I installed the Wall Connector for my Tesla. It does not need GFCI breaker, look good and can run upto 40A at home.
Thank you so much for this video. I just purchased the 14-50 Bryant outlet and the face plate following your link. I was going to get the Hubbell wall plate as recommended until I saw your link. What about the electrical box? Any standard box will work or need bigger one?
For those with a Long Range Tesla, some can charge up to 48 amps when matched with a charger rated that high. For example a Tesla wall charger, or a Jukebox 48 amp charger. So consider THHN #6 gauge wire matched with a 60 amp breaker, and hard wire it.
The other reason to hardwire is that most chargers have a built in GFCI. Installing a breaker with a GFCI (most codes require it) means there are two GFCIs in series, which can cause on or the other to trip and your car will stop charging. You may or may not get a notification when this happens. Hardwiring solves this issue and keeps everything to code.
Thanks for this informative video. It's almost Sept '23 and the Hubble is down to about $80 on the Zon. The Bryant was about $10 cheaper there. Hardwiring has advantages, but you can't take your charger on vacation or when you sell your home... still on the fence but you gave me something to ponder for sure.
Important to note that hardwired charger will max out charging and give a 20% boost to charge power and speed vs plug in. Which is why 60A breaker is required. Another tip if you smile a receptacle - buy a (properly rated) extension cord and plug and unplug from that - most have a handle with grips to make it safer and this will save wear and tear on your receptacle.
In reality, people rarely unplug their chargers. But every junction has the potential of generating heat which wastes energy and increases the risk of failure. I would never recommend using an extension cord because it adds another junction. Hard wired is always best.
I was dead set on a basic 14-50 outlet until I saw this video. I'm feeling lucky I saw it. I'll be looking into a hardwired solution for outdoors (side of house) that's designed to handle the sun and rain...probably Grizzl-E or Emporia.
Wow 68 dollars then over a hundred must have solid gold contacts. Had trouble a few years back with Hubbell hospital grade 20 amp duplex receptacles. Stainless steel s crew would tighten up but needed a least a full turn to secure wall plate. Anyway heads on 6 /32 screws would break uo . They were all made in Korea. Glad that I retired 3 years ago. Last roll of 12/2 Romex that I purchased maybe 20 years ago was probably only $25. Home Depot wants $259 for a 250' coil. wow over a buck a foot.
Off topic but need you to do a video on what’s going on with Insteon or what if anything you are doing or plan on doing as a work around. Sorry like I said I know it’s off topic but you’re the first person I thought of when my Insteon light went red last week
Wow! Awesome! Thank you for another great cost savings informative video Chris. Are you planning on posting any lawn care videos? I’m itching for them!
@@handydadtv LOL yeah I understand. I’m sure you could still do some good ones just one a smaller scale. You could also do them at your daughter’s house.
If you don't need an outlet why bother. Hard wire is the best connection possible. Plugs corrode and wear out. Even if the plug stays plugged in most of the time. If you use the outlet for other uses move the outlet and still hard wire the charger. It's the best alternative. 73
Thanks for the great info. My Model Y performance car should be delivered to me hopefully sometime next month. I recently bought the $150 14-50 outlet from Amazon even though it made me cringe to spend that kind of money on one outlet. Of course supply/demand takes over everything. Plus I've been on Tesla's waiting list to buy a 14-50 plug which has been out of stock. So now I went with your advice and I'm going with the 6-50 alternative instead. Cheaper outlet and cheaper wire for something that will do the same exact thing if you go with the 14-50. Doesn't make sense to go the more expensive route. Why spend the extra money going the 14-50 route if the neutral line isn't needed?
I learned so much since buying my Model Y in 2020. You’re absolutely right that the 14-50 is overkill for EV charging and I have no idea why it became so popular.
@@handydadtv I'm pretty sure it was because of RV parks. It was a semi-popular way to lvl 2 charge out in the wild in the early EV days. That and maybe because a lot of homes have a 14-50 for their stove as a makeshift way to lvl 2 charge with an extension cord. I installed a 6-50 to use the UMC, but decided I wanted a more permanent solution after deciding I was going to keep the tesla for a while. I hard wired a Grizzl-e EVSE and it has been great. Really robust unit that should last forever. I just bought an extra J1772-Tesla adapter to leave on it permanently. I wanted J1772 just in case something better than the Tesla came along or I got an electric quad or motorcycle.
Picking up my MYP this weekend. Im probably going to hardwire the charger (wall connector). I have a 40A breaker/outlet in the garage. Not sure if i need to spend the extra $$ to run a 60A wire to the garage (40ft from main panel). I only use maybe 10 miles/day. 😀
....because if you plan on ever selling your house the buyer will want a NEMA 14-50 since it's the most popular and therefore most likely the one that the buyer's charging equipment is compatible with.
You must be careful using the Bryant! It is only rated for 60C. The Hubble is rated 75C. You must use 60C column for conductor ampacity. The GFCI requirement is required if your AHJ has adopted the 2020 NEC. That is the first it is required to be GFCI. I totally agree, it is best to hardwire the charger. I have no idea where people came up with thinking they need a 14-50r. BTW that is the receptacle used for larger RV power connection.
@@handydadtv thanks a lot for both the videos. My electrician said he will just use a Leviton from HD but I now concerned. I am not a professional but #1 the link of the Bryant shows 14-30R; and #2 is that 60C vs 75C an issue for my Tesla M Y charging? Would appreciate if you can respond. Thx.
Both have an environmental rating in the spec PDF of 75C. However, neither device is actually marked 75C and therefore must be used as a 60C device. Both also come with instruction sheets which say to use conductors rated according to the 60C column. They are functionally and specs wise identical, and are very likely identical in manufacturing other than the stamped name. Both must use 6 gauge copper conductors in order to create a true 50A general use circuit. Neither may be used with aluminum conductors.
One advantage of using a NEMA 6-50 receptacle is that you don't need to run the unused NEUTRAL 6-AWG wire from your panel to the receptacle, and it makes it easier to tuck the two 6-AWG hot wires and the 12-AWG ground wire in the back of the box.
@@handydadtv I am shocked and dismayed that the Bryant NEMA 14-50r is not rated for aluminum conductor.I thought all good quality receptacles would be rated Cu/Al. I am of course gong to return it. Do you know of another better quality 14-50r that is rated for aluminum? I could pigtail the aluminum, but the rated connectors for connecting aluminum to copper are expensive in the size required for 4 AWG aluminum.
Good advice. Not sure why most tesla level 2 chargers include a 14-50P when no neutral is used. Why not just simplify and make a 6-50 as standard. The only time you really need a nema 14 wiring device, whether it be a 14-20R, 14-30R, 14-50R or 14-60R, is when you have a piece of equipment that is a combo line to neutral and line to line load, such as an electric dryer or range, amount certain other equipment. A nema 6 wiring device is cost effective for line to line loads. You can then run less costly XX/2 w/G NM cable and of course wrap a piece of black tape around the white conductor to re identify it as being a hot conductor.
@@handydadtv well that's logical. I enjoy camping and of course you cannot visit and RV park and not see a TT-30R and a 14-50R simultaneously. And larger RV is obviously a line to neutral and line to line load like your house. Thanks for your kind words I enjoyed your videos.
For circuit breakers, you need to stick with the brand and type for your panel. No specific recommendation for wire, but some places require conduit instead of Romex like I used. Check local codes.
nice video. I agree that hardwire method is the best. BTW, your Bryant link goes to '14-30R' with 30A rating... I am little confused that description is different from picture...?!?
So if the fourth wire is not used, why do they make so many chargers with this 14-50 'extra-wire' plug rathher than the 67-50?...and what IS the purpose of the fourth wire?
The fourth wire is a neutral. They didn’t create this outlet for EV charging. I’m not sure why it became the more popular choice. Perhaps because it’s popular for RVs at campgrounds.
I'm an engineer for Stellantis ( formerly known here in the U.S. as Chrysler) Unfortunately to stay true and " buy what I build " I have to wait a bit longer for a true EV. We have many products in the works, but I would like to have a set up ready in my garage, as I am in the middle of a renovation ( drywall down, new wiring and insulation). Whats your thoughts if I want to prepare while the walls are open? I'm thinking of putting 2 Chargers in ( one each for me and the wife) 2 outlets? 2 hardware preps?..... Thanks for posting your great content. So helpful in opening up discussions with many opinions giving feedback.
Although I have an outlet, I can definitely see the benefit of hard-wiring. But you have the unique advantage to just run the wires now and decide later.
Anthony, have you verified that your electrical service is large enough to supply power to two chargers at the same time? Doing a load calculation would be advisable. Very especially if you have a 100 amp service or 200 amp and an all electric home.
@@KevinCoop1 Kevin, good tip on the load calculation. Last year I had a new 200A panel installed with a whole home generator. Less than half of the box is currently being used , but to your point- a load test is a great starting point. I guess maybe where my question should have learned would have been " Is it NORMAL for someone to need or have 2 Chargers installed?" Thinking toward the future when more cars in a family are electric I can imagine fighting over the charger.... (not to mention kids with cars in the family...) Of course, the argument to that could be that technology will change...batteries will last longer, charged quicker...etc. Interesting times we are in to see this shift in vehicle's. Thanks again for the thought on load test. I'm sure and electrician would be more than happy to do the work to get me whatever I wanted.....😉
Great video! I’m going to install a outlet level 2 charger in my garage. All over the internet it says to use nema 14-50 240v 50a outlet, i want to use Bryant but it says their outlet is nema 14-50R 125/250v. Can I use the Bryant 125/250v instead of the 240v? I’m confused what’s the difference, they both look alike. Thank you
It's the same thing. Everything is rated up to either 125V or 250V, even if it will only be used for 120 or 240 nominal. Sometimes they will say 125/250 because it's two 120V phases for a total of 240V, sometimes it will just say 250V.
Hi Chris, thank you for these informative videos. I am planning to install my charger ( not yet decided between Nema or hardwired) in my driveway. If I install a Nema plug I will need GFI breaker but what if I install hardwired charger like one you have in my driveway, will I still need a GFI breaker? Thanks for creating these videos.
@@handydadtv thanks. I thought in this video link it was a Hubble outlet you were working on with the torque setting of 75 lb-in. Is it the same for Bryant outlet terminals too?
Question: are you sure that all EVSE's have on board electronics which are 240V native, and do *not* require the 120V circuit provided by the neutral missing on the 6-50R?
@@NewPhase-kq1fu 2020 code removed all exceptions for 125-250V receptacles. Including things like dedicated dryer and oven receptacles. Plug-in EVSE's need to remove GFCI protection because of this, or better yet have it selectable as states on the 2017 code didn't require GFCI on 250V receptacles. Either way, doesn't seem smart to forego some kind of GFCI protection on a high powered circuit like that with a long cord and in a potentially wet environment.
@@andrewt9204 They don’t need to remove GFCI from EVSEs. Nothing wrong with redundancy. Where I am we’re still on 2017 code, so GFCI not required on 220v. But, doesn’t matter because again, EVSEs have GFCI protection built in. Not a safety issue, even in wet environments.
@@NewPhase-kq1fu The reason it is code (in 2020) is because the 240V outlets can be used for things other than EV charging. An outlet is an outlet. In fact, GFCI's have been required outdoors or in garages since 1975 (kitchens were added in 1987). But for decades they exempted 240V outlets because 240V outlets are rare (in America) and were only used for large appliances. But in 2020 this changed - most 240V outlets need GFCI now. In fact, even the washer/dryer are required to be GFCI protected now (this came after a kid was killed when he touched a faulty washer). I am surprised it took them until 2020 to require GFCI on 240V outlets. So, while it is true that EV chargers come with built-in GFCI's, it is also true that you can use that outlet for other appliances that don't have GFCI protection. I suspect this is why it is now code. With the proliferation of EV's, we are gonna see people using those outlets for other things. One guy in the comments here said his wife uses his EV outlet for other stuff. So, yes, it happens. And that's why they want them GFCI protected.
Incidently, didn't realize it was so hard to find a specific faceplate for a nema 6-20R in a 2 gang (at the same place I'm buying everything else). A miele iron needs it. It was a 2gang because we originally planned for a 30 amp plug. I knew nothing about it so kept thinking I had the right one but turns out the holes were wrong.
You can use UP TO 60 amps. That’s overkill in most situations. If you have a long run, go with 50-amp because the wire will be thinner. Copper is expensive.
You can use UP TO 60 amps. That’s overkill in most situations. If you have a long run, go with 50-amp because the wire will be thinner. Copper is expensive.
Hardwiring follow up on the Emporia. I was planning 6/3 romex. It appears their install instructions don't call for a neutral. Thoughts? Can 6/2 be used?
@@handydadtv yeah, I agree. I bought the $150 Hubbell from Amazon a couple weeks ago. I took it to my local Lowes just to compare it to what they're selling. You can definitely see and feel the weight difference between the two. Why would anyone choose to "cheap out" on something like this when you're only going to install this type of outlet once for your EV? People need to remember how much power is flowing through these outlets. Yes, the cheaper ones from Lowes or HD will work. But for how long? Charging a Tesla can easily consume 30A or more on these outlets. Who wants to trust that kind of power going through a cheaper made outlet? No me.
Electrician here. I agree with V Ng. Properly installed standard NEMA 14-50 is fine. It’s rated for 50A, the chargers only pull 40A (80%). The burnt outlets you showed were likely due to poor installation. Why you should hire an electrician. Even when the prongs are melted that’s often the result of loose screw connections. The heat transfers from the back to the front of the outlet.
@@NewPhase-kq1fu I had one failure early on before Tesla started recommending the industrial outlets. It was properly installed by one of my jouneymen. I now exclusively use the industrial outlets for ev charging. While the cheap outlets are rated at 50 amps it isn't worth the risk of a call back.
One must be careful with higher ampacity receptacles. Hubbell was the first company to change their connections from 60 to 75C. There may still be some at the lower ratings. Not always easy to find the info. I agree with newphase.
Thanks so much! relatives shopping now for new EV, and having price shock re the Hubbell! I'm not sure all codes require GFI breakers for EVSE plug-in install... The Tesla charge cable doesn't always work well on GFI outlets either, as it has GFI built-in
@@handydadtv NEC 2020 Section 625.54, which covers electric vehicle charging systems with regards to GFCI protection for personnel. The protection requirements have been expanded to require all receptacles installed for the connection of electric vehicle charging to have GFCI protection. The previous requirements of single-phase, 150 volts to ground or less, and 50 amperes or less have been removed. These changes were made to clarify the intent of providing GFCI protection for personnel and all cord and plug connected electric vehicle power transfer equipment, regardless of phase, voltage or amperage ratings. As I understand it all EV chargers have built in protection. So ADDITIONAL GFCI is totally un-necessary however I would still consider it if the cord could lay in the rain or somehow a connector or adapter could be connected before the GFCI part of the circuit is connected then it may be a hazard. I don't know how every different EV charger is designed so it should really be case by case.
One comment I would make about the use of a hardwired vs. portable EVSE: If you go with a portable EVSE, you will have to install an outlet in your garage, but with a portable, you will have the option to use it at any RV camp ground that has 50 amp (NEMA 14-50) hookups at the campsite pads. I have in fact charged my Prius Prime at campgrounds several times, albeit with the Level 1 charger that came with the car, but that was because my Level 2 EVSE has a NEMA 10-30 plug on it for the laundry dryer outlet in my garage, and you will never see a 10-30 outlet at a campground. The fact is, that the NEMA 14-50 is the de-facto standard for L2 charger power supply. Because homes built before 1996 mostly have NEMA 10-30's for the laundry dryer power, you can find EVSE's that come with a 10-30 plug, but they are limited to 16 amps. That's okay for a Prius Prime or an older Chevy Volt, but woefully inadequate to charge a Tesla, Bolt, Hyumdai Ionic, or Leaf. You need a 32~40 amp EVSE to be able to charge these EV's with big traction batteries in a single overnight session. At 16 amps, it takes 18 hours to charge a Tesla, and that's no good if you need the car for a daily commute to work. So the old 30 amp dryer outlets in pre-1996 homes are not really an ideal solution for EV owners with 50+ kilowatt-hour batteries in their car. In researching portable Level 2 EVSE's on Amazon, I found that the vast majority (85%) come with NEMA 14-50 plugs. There are 3 or 4 brands that are available with NEMA 10-30 plugs, but these are all limited to 16 amps. I found only 1 that comes with a NEMA 6-50 plug. It was a 32-amp unit, which is good, but because of the limited demand for EVSE's with 6-50 plugs, it was $399, whereas the exact same brand and model of EVSE with a 14-50 plug was $299. And if you ever think you might want to charge your EV at a campground, you would be far better off with a 14-50 plug, and that's the universal standard for motorhomes and large travel trailers that have 240 volt air conditioning units. Smaller RV's generally come with a TT-30 plug on their shorepower cable, but that's a 120 volt line, not 240. Now there's one workaround for this situation: Install a Bryant NEMA 6-50R in your garage, and buy a portable 32 amp EVSE with a 14-50 plug, and an adapter cable that's got a 6-50P on one end, and a 14-50R on the other. You have the benefit of a less expensive outlet installation in your garage, a 32 amp EVSE that you can use at any camp ground, and that will also work at home with a $25 6-30P to 14-50R adapter. Also keep in mind that if your circuit breaker box is more than 10 feet from where you want to install the new outlet, a 6-50 outlet can be wired with 6-2 Romex, costing $4.50/foot at Home Depot. If you go with a 14-50 outlet, you will have to use 6-3 Romex, which is $7.50/foot. That extra cost adds up fast if your run of wire is, say, 30 or 40 feet.
Good info! Thanks! FYI, technically my Tesla portable charger can charge at 32 amps max, but I reduce the rate to 15 amps because that’s plenty to recharge my daily commute. Very few people drive 250 miles a day.
You completely missed the point of these videos. Adding an additional pair of connectors and using smaller gauge wires is NOT the way to go for everyday charging, it's dangerous. Convenience is nice, but physics is physics and connector spring weakening and plating wear all but guarantees connector overheating, particularly with long-duration, maximum-current EV charging sessions approaching 12kW, a tremendous level of power. If you don't believe us, ask any of your local firemen.
Thank you for posting this informative public service video. The heavy-duty industrial grade NEMA 14-50 receptacles (Hubbell, Bryant) are constructed of fire-resistant Bakelite rather than injection-molded plastic, and their 4 contact springs are heavy-duty with heavy plating, specifically designed for thousands of insertion/removal cycles rather than a few dozen. They also feature specially plated clamp-style wiring connections with set screws which must be carefully tightened using a calibrated torque wrench. A side-by-side comparison is compelling, and there are a rapidly-growing number of photos of melted/scorched/burned NEMA 14-50 outlets posted on the Internet. Sadly, many of these dangerous receptacles were installed by licensed electricians.
Less-expensive, lower-quality NEMA 14-50 receptacles are unsafe for EV charging and should all come with a warning that they are not designed for and must not be used for EV charging applications. Given the risk, home improvement stores (Home Depot, Lowes, ACE Hardware, etc) should completely stop selling them, and online stores should be required to have detailed warnings. The national wiring codes should also be updated appropriately. No one should die or lose their home over this issue.
That said, whenever possible an EVSE should be permanently installed with suitable heavy gauge wiring rather than using NEMA 14-50. The Laws of Physics dictate that I*I*R heating occurs in wires and connections whenever there is electrical current, and today's home EVSEs draw up to 48A@240Vac (11.52kW). THAT'S A LOT OF POWER. When you draw that amount of 240Vac current steadily over several hours, the wires and connections GET HOT. Direct wiring eliminates one set of temporary connections that are likely to degrade over time and overheat with repeated usage.
Thanks for this important information!
The price of the Industrial Grade Hubbell and Bryant NEMA 14-50 receptacles has dropped significantly (8/2023) - about $75 - now that supply is catching up to demand. Meanwhile, lots more online reports and images of $15 NEMA 14-50 receptacles failing and melting/catching fire.
Please hire a licensed, experienced electrician and consider a safer hard-wired EVSE installation, especially now that NACS is being adopted for EV charging in 120/240Vac North America, the Tesla (Gen 3) Wall Connector is a good value with a large installed base and excellent safety and reliability record.
I checked both Hubbell and Bryant catalogs and was surprised to find they don't use Bakelite anymore. They are showing glass filled thermoplastic. Not too happy about that. Eaton uses the same.
I’m an electrical contractor and one thing you can do is increase the wire size to 4 as a heat sink … the thicker the wire the less chance you have of a 50 cheap Leviton 14-50 of over heating . . Don’t ever use less than 6 though . Good video to re think that extra prong we never use !
Thanks for the info
If you're an electrical contractor then you know that the amps rating for a circuit is NOT FOR CONTINUOUS DUTY - it is for max 85% - at least here in California that's the case. Upsizing the wire isn't good enough - you must have at least 60A circuit to pull 50A continuous through it.
@@gheumann Should be 48 amp continuous for a 60A breaker. It is 80% of breaker rating.
4 gauge wire is rather difficult to route. Not sure having three cables (assuming 2 phase or split phase) of that size will fit in a 1 inch conduit. But it is an interesting idea.
Yes, prices are triple of when I did my NEMA 14-50 installation video back in 2020. I still recommend installing the 14-50 since most EVSE use that plug. The Eaton 5754N is also a good option. The Bryant 9450FR is a good deal - thanks for the suggestion.
Thanks
Thanks for providing the alternatives! It obviously helped to shake up the marketplace. As of August 2023 Amazon has Bryant at $49 and Hubble is down to $88!
Thanks for the info!
It appears that the Hubbell/Bryant manufacturer(s) switched over from 1930's Bakelite to modern injection-molded glass-filled thermoplastic to satisfy the increase in demand brought on by EV adoption. There continues to be significant quality, ruggedness and safety differences between the consumer-grade and more expensive industrial-grade receptacles. Consumer-grade receptacles are designed for relatively infrequent use and intermittent loading.
Got a bryant as well.
I got Hubble for 50 on Amazon 🤷🏾♂️
Watched old video and you convinced me to upgrade from the cheap Menards 14-50 to Hubbell. Went to shop for another Hubbell for my brother in laws house and saw the price....then saw Bryant and did a search...found this vid...buying Bryant 14-50. Thanks for the info! (already have the 14-50 mobile plug)
Haha good story. Glad I came on this journey with you.
Great video - thanks. I actually wound up just recently buying the Hubbell. Your first video was the reason I bought it :). I wound up purchasing it from a local Electric store here in NJ and I only paid $38. I had to wait about a month for it to get into stock though. One extra cost to consider is that the faceplate for the Hubbell is non-standard. I wound up paying almost $20 just for the faceplate.
Another point on the GFCI - My Juicebox 40 specifically says not to use it with a GFCI outlet. The Juicebox has GFCI built in. I believe other manufactures have the same recommendation. Also, good to know that the Bryant is similar to the Hubbell. I did not realize this.
All EVSEs should have built-in GFCI protection because you need to be able to charge outside. And I’ve heard that it’s never good to have multiple GFCIs in line. But the NEC doesn’t list any exclusion for EV charging. So I’m not sure what’s the “best” thing to do.
Electricians commented on my original 14-50 installation video that the breaker should have been GFCI per code. So I upgraded it in this video ua-cam.com/video/BixGQisysDc/v-deo.html
@@handydadtv Two GFCI in line won't harm themselves or the person using the outlet. You just can roll the dice which one shuts off when something happens, if the tripping value is identical on both.
Greetings from a German electrician (just randomly got your video recommended to me, probably because I looked up the type of plug well over a year ago...)
@wiedapp Hello Germany! Since EVSEs supposedly have internal GFCIs without a test button, they must do a self test before every charge. Is it possible that’s when a GFCI breaker can pop? People have quoted ChargePoint’s instructions that it should not be installed on a GFCI protected outlet.
@@handydadtv Well, that would need to be tested, I think.
On the other hand: We have mobile GFCI here for some applications (worker protection mandates them sometimes, if it is not determinable if the used outlet is behind a GFCI already) and you can use them in line with a regular one. These have a test button and if you look at the schematics of how that test button is wired inside a (any!) GFCI, the test doesn't affect another one.
As long as the test mode in the chargers doesn't bridge live to ground, you should be good to go. Usually the bridging via the test button happens between one output contact (for ex. live 1) and one input contact (for ex. neutral) of the GFCI, so the device 'sees' some current missing and then it shuts off.
Furthermore: If your local code requires that a certain type of outlet has to be behind a GFCI, what do you do:
a) follow code or
b) follow manufacturers instructions and not follow code?
If we here want to operate something without a GFCI, we have to hardwire it by code.
I mean, we don't have building inspections like is common for you over there (please correct me, if I'm wrong), so if something is not to code no one will see it. But if something happens because of that, your insurance gets a major homerun and you get nothing...
And, as I said: The only thing that can happen is, that you have to look on both devices, if there is a situation, because you can't be sure witch one trips first. More annoying than dangerous.
I am in NJ as well. What was the electric store? That's a great deal!
I had the Leviton 14-50 outlet from homedepot, 50a dual pole fuse, on a 1989 150a panel, with a Gen 3 Tesla wall charger. The setup created a scary humming at the panel at 48a. I figured it was my old panel causing the humming so I lowered the charge amp's to 40a on my Tesla app. Which is when there was little to no humming heard at the panel. After watching your video I replaced the Leviton with a Bryant for safety and even ordered a new 200a panel with all new fuses which is arriving this weekend (11/19/22). To my surprise the Bryant 14-50 outlet with my old panel and 50a fuse didnt hum at 40a, or at 42a, 46a, and not even at 48amps! I am still going to replace my old panel, and loving the 42mil/hr new faster charge rate.
Fyi: I touched my Bryant outlet and the box it is in after 2 hours of charging and it is cool to the touch. The fuse in the panel though was pretty warm like my Gen3 charger wire going to the car.
Leviton 14-50 outlet diffiantly should not be used for car charging. Though it cost me about $14 and the Bryant cost me $50 I have to say the Bryant 14-50 outlet was money well spent.
If you have a 50 amp circuit breaker, you should not charge at more than 40 A. Code requires a 25% headroom on any circuit. So for a 50 amp breaker you should not charge at more than 40 A. Your breaker was humming because it was very near the trip point.
@@cube1us Thankfully it is not humming now, however, I will reduce the charge rate of 48 amps.
Use the lowest charge rate necessary to recharge your daily commute. No point in stressing everything to charge in 2 hours when your car sits idle for 10.
I charge at 15 amps now and it’s still typically done by midnight.
For me, the NEMA 6-50 is the way to go. I use the outlet to charge my MY and on occasion my wife uses the outlet to her electric kiln. Thanks for the great videos.
Thanks :)
The 6-50 also allows you three conductors rather than four.
That alone can save substantial money right there.
Good timing. Telsa just stated that they are no longer supplying UMC with car and they are out of stock on line. I put in Hubbell 14-50 in anticipation of home charging w included UMC. Wish I'd have hard wired instead. Cost of outlet+GFCI breaker+UMC that I have to order now is a push compared to hard wiring charger (I know its not a charger but...)
The UMC will come back in stock. Id think they would still include it for orders prior to the announcement.
Thanks. I’ve been hearing horror stories from people who charge their cars on $10 Home Depot receptacles and have them melt. I was about to buy the Hubbell but went with the Bryant instead to replace my two $10 receptacles.
I also recommend charging as slowly as possible on a daily basis. Just because your charger can do 40 amps doesn’t mean you need to always charge at that rate. My daily rate is only 15 amps which takes around 7 hours. That keeps everything cooler.
@@handydadtv I bought a 2021 Nissan Leaf, can I change the rate on that? I read the Leaf is a 30 am charger.
@jawharris Google that. I don’t know the Leaf.
If you're going to hard wire, then put in a 60A breaker!!! Then you can charge at 11Kw instead of 9KW. Code says you can only draw 80% of the circuit's rating for continuous duty. So with a 50A breaker you have to set your charger down to 40A draw, which is 9KW. But a 60A breaker is enough to let you draw 48A< a full 11.KW> (Not alll level 2 chargers can draw/charge that much but SOME do - and they MUST be hardwired if over 50A.
Correct.
Thanks for this!
Don't try to do that with a Tesla mobile charger
Why? Most EVSE units max out at 40 amps. Most cars max out at 9.6 kWh as well for AC charging. 99.999% of home owners will never even benefit from a 40 amp EVSE.
There is no car that charges at 50A. The code asks only for 40A for car chargers. 50A is already a really good over head. Tesla home chargers, or most chargers will max out at 48A, but never really get there. 9kw/ hr is typical. Not the rated 11.5kw
Thanks again for a great video. I went with NEMA 6-50 based on your second video, still got a Hubbell and it works great. Dont understand why more people just don't go with 6-50 for their level 2 charging install. Ok, 14-50 gives more flexibility in the use of the outlet, sure, but my charging outlet is pretty much dedicated to charging my Tesla, so save money and go with 6-50. Even the 6/2 wire is a bit cheaper than 6/3 which, as you pointed out, isn't even used by the car for charging
I have learned a lot since buying my Tesla by making these videos. I’m glad they’ve been helpful for you. 😊
Most commercial places today are installing the 14-50, instead of the 6-50, so in the long run, it will be usable in more places.
@@colinpovey2904 You are correct, so what i did is I bought a NEMA 6-50 to NEMA 14-50 adapter from Amazon for $20. Now I can plug in just about anywhere
My defense of the Hubble connector was deleted. Interesting.
@KrellLab - Apologies. UA-cam filters certain comments (like hate or links).
I installed a Wall Connector when I purchased my EV. We installed a 60 amp circuit. Got a little more juice. But had to hard wire it. It was an expensive project but I only have to do it once.
Good choice 👍🏻
I bought a Bryant 6-50R from Amazon and it works…. buuuut the ground terminal screw (flat head) stripped when I torqued it to spec of 30 lb-in.
It’s been too long to return it so I’ll see about a warranty claim, but I’m planning to replace it with a Hubbell 6-50R that has the metal clamps and not just a set screw.
The interior plastic housing is also white on my Bryant outlet, maybe the 14-50R is generally the same but for some reason the 6-50R has different design between Bryant and Hubbell.
Honestly at this point I should really just hardwire the EVSE, but I use it at my in-laws house a couple times per month and it’s pretty handy when I do.
That sucks
@@handydadtv
Lol, yup.
I was using the outlet in a box for the past couple months, but the box was just loose on the floor near my panel so I decided to finally get everything properly mounted and secured to the wall.
On the bright side, I’ve got conduit shaped & mounted, the box is on the wall, wire is pulled to the panel and pretty much all the hard parts are done.
I’ve still got the slow charger (L1 EVSE) and my BMW i3 has a gas range extender, so I won’t be totally out of luck even if I’m lazy and don’t get the L2 hooked up again right away.
BTW I’ve really enjoyed your videos on this, it’s been helpful to get a DIY perspective that includes best practices as you learn more details.
I’ve watched a bunch of professional electricians videos on this stuff as well - I feel like your videos complement those well and fit right in with expert guidance in a very approachable way.
So thanks for making these.
Decent video, short but to the point. My only comment is a general one; always check what is proper electrical code for your location, you don't want to do it wrong and need to rework it later.
Good advice 👍🏻
A GFCI breaker is not required if you have an outlet for your EVSE. That segment is a bit confusing because some EVSE's say you should not use a GFCI breaker.
Amazon isn't a good 'price guide' lately, I'm usually comparing between a brick and mortar's website and Google to get an idea of what something *should* cost.
I read the code and there is no exception for EV charging:
ua-cam.com/video/BixGQisysDc/v-deo.html
@@handydadtv It depends on what version of the NEC your state or locality is using. The requirement that 240V outlets be on a GFCI is a fairly recent one, and your state or locality may not have adopted that NEC yet. Some states are still using the 2008 NEC and some are still using the 2014 NEC.
@@brianleeper5737 Agreed. Most chargers have built in GFCI and recommend not being on a GFCI circuit. Hopefully NEC will address this issue and rewrite the code.
@@jeffwilliams8179 I doubt NEC will revise it because a 240V outlet can be used for things other than an EV car charger. So the NEC wants that outlet GFCI protected when little Johnny comes along and decides to plug something else into it. The best way to avoid this hassle is to simply hardwire the charger so there is no outlet at all. Let the EV charger's built in GFCI provide the shock protection.
Love the video. After 5 years of 32A charging with a Home Depot Leviton my Tesla is starting to have High Temperature warnings. Amazon is currently selling the Hubbel for $70 and Bryant for $49. I was going to go with Bryant but I decided the $20 isn't a big enough savings. Neat idea about the 6-50 since I don't have a neutral wire anyways but Hubbell 6-50 is $33 + Tesla 6-50 adapter is $45. Is it a code violation to not have the neutral wire to that outlet? Next I have to buy a torque screwdriver!
I’m pretty sure it’s a code violation to have an open neutral, but who’s checking?
One more tip: Spray Deoxit into the outlet (whichever one you buy) if you need to plug/unplug frequently. Deoxit DN5 can be used on live circuits since the can contains nothing that can ignite if there's a spark.
Thanks for the tip!
Deoxit is great and I use it all the time. Every 6 months I’ll clean my contacts with 0000 steel wool followed by deoxit to keep the terminal in good shape
We have to upgrade. The Prius Prime charges fine (and slow) on 120v, but two of them on one line was...dangerous. We're planning to upgrade, but don't need 50A for the Primes (and don't plan to replace them anytime soon). What about running 220v to 20A circuit and going with a 6-20 plug and one of the Level 2 chargers that work with that? Smaller breaker. Smaller plug. The Prius Prime max charge rate is 8A, so 2 Primes on one circuit still brings us to only 16A on a 20A circuit running two plugs. Or would you just go hardwire instead?
If hardwiring is an option, that’s always what I’d choose. Also, the Prime won’t be your last EV. If you’re running a new circuit, use 6AWG minimum and do it once.
I''m also in the hardwired camp unless there is a good reason to choose 14-50. Another cost savings that come with hardwiring is from skipping the extra conductor for the grounded (AKA 'neutral') conductor. All the EVSE I am familiar with only use two hots and the grounding conductor. If e,g, Romex is used, 6/2 can be purchased instead of the 6/3 that a 14-50 receptacle would require.
Good point. The NEMA 6-50 is a good option without the neutral, but it’s not as common for EVSEs.
I have that same emporia charger using the 14-50 plug and had a UEFI breaker. It kept tripping for no apparent reason. Emporia support said their chargers already have UEFI protection built in and I needed to replace my breaker with a standard one. Once I did that no issues. Same deal with the FORD optional EV chargers. It specially says not to use UEFI breakers. The ford mobile charger that comes with their EVs call for a UEFI breaker.
Huh. I never had any issues with the GFCI breaker tripping.
Thanks for sharing! I had wondered why the 240-volt outlet had a slot for a neutral wire! You answered my question by saying “it isn’t used.”
It’s not used by the EVSE.
Keep it in mind though that electrical codes may require you to install a disconnect switch if the charger is hard wired since it is an electronic device that is prone to failure
Why is that any different than my hard-wired wall oven? The breaker is the disconnect.
It could be a requirement outdoors though.
@@handydadtv I can't comment about whether a disconnect is required, but if a disconnect is required, the code requires tha it be clearly visible from the equpment and the distance must not exceed 15m (50 ft). Your breaker in the panel almost certainly does not qualify.
Don't quote me on this but I believe that's only for loads over 60amps.
I had the Hubbe installed and it was worth it but I paid less than $100 for it. The plug cycles is not really an issue because I use an RV quality extension cord so I don’t have to back in and I only unplug the mobile adapter when I’m going on a trip. We also have the Tesla wall connector for my wife’s car but if I use that the cable is behind her car and see can’t back out without unplugging it. It just works better with each car having it’s own unit.
Thanks for the info
I just got a Hubbell 14-50 for $59 on Amazon. I am happy with that price.
That’s a great price.
Thank you!! This video answered every question I had about what is 6-50 vs 14-50, and why would someone hardwire vs use the 14-50 plug that comes with the EVs I’m looking at.
Hardwire is safest.
Note that in quite a few areas of the country you do not need the GFCI breaker for a Nema 1450 outlet. And since the charger itself has protection if the only thing you’re ever going to plug into that outlet is a charger you are just as safe as you would be as if you installed the GFCI breaker. But it does vary by state depending on which version of the national electrical code they are currently using.
Thanks
Just to add to what you've said, many have reported their charging being interrupted on GFCI breakers. My state doesn't require a GFCI breaker and, as you said, since I'll only be plugging in a charging station anyway, which has the protection, I'm fine. Now, there is indeed a VERY GOOD POINT in simply not using an outlet period. The downside is you can never unplug your device if you want to take it with you, etc.
In 2.5 years, I’ve taken my UMC on a handful of trips and never touched it. I try to choose hotels with destination chargers or I just Supercharge when needed.
One time, at a rural AirBNB, I could have used the UMC but left it home. 🤷🏻♂️
The 2017 NEC doesn't require GFCI protection for EV chargers. The 2020 NEC does regardless as to whether it is hard wired or not.
I just bought a Bryant from Grainger for my new Tesla!! Thanks for the great video!!
Glad it was helpful 👍🏻
Watching your video and cracking mistakes you might’ve missed one on the plug outlet where you were showing copper wires were the insulated wire wasn’t covered completely. There was copper exposed, which could cause arcing and eventually a fire all right awesome video keep it up.
Thanks for the advice!
Thanks for the informative videos! I’m still convinced that hardwired is the best option, in the end. Went from 14-50 but needed the extra ~50% faster charging speeds, so hardwired Gen3 Wall Connector is the way to go
Definitely 👍🏻
I know they are no longer used, but all my 50 amp outlets in my shop are nema 10-50 and I have never had one fail, even when running a 5 HP compressor! Most are Eagle brand but the plugs are all Leviton. Being old they seem to be a higher quality.
Plus your tools don’t draw 40 amps continuously for hours.
@@handydadtv The compressor is on and off, I never measured how much current the lathe or mill use. I just dug out an old Leviton welder outlet 6-50 and it's a lot better built that the new range outlet i have in my parts box!
Something not mentioned here is that you should be pushing at most 40A through the 14-50 outlet regardless of make. I wonder if many of those melted sockets were people trying to charge at 48A. Not saying an industrial outlet shouldn't be used, but if the outlet is rarely unplugged and you're not trying to push more than 40A through it, and it is properly installed (torqued), then many outlets, industrial or not, should work.
I've had a 32A charger plugged into an Eaton 6-50 surface mount outlet for 7 years and no problems. The plug was only removed once when a surge knocked out the charger, and I replaced it with a new one plugged into the same outlet.
It’s all about risk. Hard-wired is the best, but if you don’t want to hard-wire then an industrial outlet is better than a standard one.
You can get Hubbell for 80 bucks still, but hard wire is way to go, safer, more power and less conductors and no plugs, thhn wire and emt conduit are about the same price as buying the Hubbell and 4 wire. Great video
I agree. Thanks 😊
I am installing a Tesla wall charger. I would like to have a Nema 14-50R as back up. I don't want to spend the $130 on a GFCI breaker 50A. What will happen if I just use a regular breaker?
If you’re getting the wall charger inspected, don’t install the outlet until after the inspection.
Worst case scenario (other than potential electrocution) is a home inspector might flag it when you go to sell the house.
Second worst case scenario: you have an electrical fire and the insurance company doesn’t pay out because of code violation. They WILL investigate before settling, rest assured; it’s standard operating procedure.
@@DanielinLaTuna I learned that when you deal w car accidents, or insurance companies, you need to get a lawyer. They get you to buy insurance by promising you a bunch of stuff. And when the claim comes, they don't want to pay. You need to get the right lawyer.
EV owner since 2014 and I firmly agree with you. Most people will never have a need to unplug their EVSE so why pay extra for the socket you'll never need.
Thanks. What car and charger do you have?
@@handydadtv I have a 32 amp Bosch Powermax. In 2014, when we purchased our SparkEV, Chevy was offering a $500 rebate on the purchase of one so I got it for something like 50 bucks. Bosch actually OEM'd the unit from Delta but it hasn't skipped a beat in all these years and takes care of the 2020 Bolt with ease.
In technical terms, a hardwired charger would still be an 'outlet'. But it wouldn't be a receptacle. At least in the States. Sorry, couldn't help myself. Helpful video, thanks.
Yes you are absolutely correct. I knew someone would point that out. You win!
These videos make me even happier that in Europe we have 230/400 V 3 phase services. 3x16A instead of single phase 50 A.
Thanks for sharing
One benefit of installed an outlet especially a Nema 6-50 is that welders use that plug. So you can unplug your ev charger and plug in your welding thus serving dual purpose.
Good point
Welder adapters can be found for a reasonable price.
Question for hard wired installation and avoid outlet, is it ok to just just use a 60 A dual breaker from Lowes or Home Depot? Or do I still need the $150 dollar breaker? Sorry I'm just a little slow. I did buy the Emporia Charger. Thanks for your video and alternative.
You don’t need the expensive GFCI breaker if you’re hard wiring your charger.
It's worth checking codes in your area. A GFCI is not required everywhere. It is true the latest electrical code does call for it. There will be a time when we must use GFCI breakers. Some portable units do a ground fault check and will trip GFCI breakers, AFCI maybe better in that case. Plug in EVSE's are probably going to be a thing of the past once everyone adopts the new codes.
I recommend hard wiring to avoid the issue.
I prefer a nema 14-50 outlet rather than a home charging station but What if you don’t live in a house, what about apartment complex?
For public parking, the apartment complex should provide secure public charging stations. Even if they let you install a 14-50 from your unit, people would steal your electricity when you weren’t there.
Hubbell makes a $10 resi grade too. but only use what the charging station specifies. tesla specifies hubbell hbl industrial grade
Thanks
So this particular Hubble receptacle is actually made and rated for 240volts & 50 amps. The available neutral is to run miscellaneous lights and carry the unbalance load back to the panel. It is a current carrying conductor just like the two other hot circuits. The ground is like an emergency pressure relief valve and is used infrequently during a short or arch and sends that back to the panel and to the earth to prevent the melt down of the wires and helps the breaker to turn off. All of these features are what you want. So the Hubble is a great receptacle (Plug) and professionals use them all the time… even in their own homes. Hubble makes durable, long lasting products. Of course, you should buy the appropriate plug of your choice and certainly use the configuration that the manufacturer wants you to use. To get an even more durable Hubble receptacle, get the Hospital grade which has a green dot stamped on its face. Your EV plug will get a lot of electrical excercise on a daily basis. Don’t bet your life on a receptacle that is cheaply made. How much is your life and the lives of your family worth to you? I’m just ask’n?😊
Thanks for your input
Too late...already got it based on the previous video. LOL Only $98 back then. I had a 50A outlet installed as part of the build for our new home but I see from this and other sources they made a mistake. The breaker is NOT GFI. I ordered a Chevy Bolt (I'll not see it for at least 6 months) and thought I would take the $500 charge card. I think that I will change that to the installation offer to get a second opinion on the set up. Ya, I bought the outlet already but I've learned a lot more since and will probably remove it and go hard wired now. Good video and the price of a GFI breaker "shocked" me. LOL
😂⚡️
Thanks for the video. I too found the Bryant outlet at Grainger.
Be sure to order the matching face plate as well, as there are similar but slightly different face plates that are incompatible.
Thanks for the advice!
Grainger has sold to individuals for as long as I've been going there. Which has been like 9 years now. Can't say to anything before that of course.
@@andrewt9204 Thanks for the update. I'll fix my answer.
Unless you're frequently running high current welding equipment and car chargers, then regular $10 4-prong outlets from Home Depot for your average residential shop is more than adequate. They can easily accommodate 240v air compressors, table saws, and auto lifts, etc. If you need a car charger, it's actually best to just hard wire the thing.
I agree. Hard wired is best.
Hey just fyi, if I am not mistaking the tesla car you don't need gfci breaker. It can cause issues from my understanding
I use a Tesla UMC on a GFCI breaker without issue.
Hey, look! When plugged in, that cord cap at 1:20 has its ground pin... on top.
I guess this settles the "Where should the ground pin on a mounted edison receptacle be?" question...
It doesn’t matter.
I also think that reviews on the UA-cam is one of the reason why prices are rising so much. Bryant 9450FR in Canada cost now $134!
I’d like to think I have that much influence but it’s hard to believe.
What RV weatherproof enclosure with fit the larger 2.4" diameter of the commercial grade 14-50? The faceplate on most housings is for the smaller off the shelf receptacles.
Check Grainger.
It's absolutely true that using a hardwired charger cost about the same as using expensive GFCI breaker and high quality outlet. I was lucky that I installed the Wall Connector for my Tesla. It does not need GFCI breaker, look good and can run upto 40A at home.
Thanks
It seems odd that the chargers use a 14-50 plug and outlet rather than just a 6-50 one. What do they need the 120v connection for?
They don’t need the neutral. 14-50 is just more common than 6-50.
Is there a difference in weight?
Did u weigh both?
I didn’t put them on a scale, but they felt identical.
Thank you so much for this video. I just purchased the 14-50 Bryant outlet and the face plate following your link. I was going to get the Hubbell wall plate as recommended until I saw your link. What about the electrical box? Any standard box will work or need bigger one?
Wait for the outlet to arrive and bring it to Home Depot to get a box that fits it.
@@handydadtv That works. Thanks!
For those with a Long Range Tesla, some can charge up to 48 amps when matched with a charger rated that high. For example a Tesla wall charger, or a Jukebox 48 amp charger. So consider THHN #6 gauge wire matched with a 60 amp breaker, and hard wire it.
Totally agree 👍🏻
Does the Bryant NEMA 14-50 have brass contacts inside the outlet? Thats pretty much the core of the resistance issues with the el cheapos
I can’t say for sure but they look just like the Hubbell.
The other reason to hardwire is that most chargers have a built in GFCI. Installing a breaker with a GFCI (most codes require it) means there are two GFCIs in series, which can cause on or the other to trip and your car will stop charging. You may or may not get a notification when this happens. Hardwiring solves this issue and keeps everything to code.
My Tesla UMC never had an issue being plugged into a GFCI breaker.
Thanks for this informative video. It's almost Sept '23 and the Hubble is down to about $80 on the Zon. The Bryant was about $10 cheaper there.
Hardwiring has advantages, but you can't take your charger on vacation or when you sell your home... still on the fence but you gave me something to ponder for sure.
FWIW, I just upgraded from a 2020 to 2023 Model Y (ua-cam.com/video/ZfhLjeuqheU/v-deo.html) and I’m still using my 2020 UMC and Hubbell 14-50.
Important to note that hardwired charger will max out charging and give a 20% boost to charge power and speed vs plug in. Which is why 60A breaker is required. Another tip if you smile a receptacle - buy a (properly rated) extension cord and plug and unplug from that - most have a handle with grips to make it safer and this will save wear and tear on your receptacle.
In reality, people rarely unplug their chargers. But every junction has the potential of generating heat which wastes energy and increases the risk of failure. I would never recommend using an extension cord because it adds another junction. Hard wired is always best.
I was dead set on a basic 14-50 outlet until I saw this video. I'm feeling lucky I saw it. I'll be looking into a hardwired solution for outdoors (side of house) that's designed to handle the sun and rain...probably Grizzl-E or Emporia.
Smart move. 👍🏻
Wow 68 dollars then over a hundred must have solid gold contacts. Had trouble a few years back with Hubbell hospital grade 20 amp duplex receptacles. Stainless steel s crew would tighten up but needed a least a full turn to secure wall plate. Anyway heads on 6 /32 screws would break uo . They were all made in Korea. Glad that I retired 3 years ago. Last roll of 12/2 Romex that I purchased maybe 20 years ago was probably only $25. Home Depot wants $259 for a 250' coil. wow over a buck a foot.
Yeah it’s crazy
The Bryant link from grainger with the same manufacturer number 9450FR now lists a different product, a 14-30R for 30 amps
Yeah their website is screwed up.
Off topic but need you to do a video on what’s going on with Insteon or what if anything you are doing or plan on doing as a work around. Sorry like I said I know it’s off topic but you’re the first person I thought of when my Insteon light went red last week
In the works. 😉
Wow! Awesome! Thank you for another great cost savings informative video Chris. Are you planning on posting any lawn care videos? I’m itching for them!
LOL you know I live in a managed community now. People look at me funny when I do any lawn work here. 😂
@@handydadtv LOL yeah I understand. I’m sure you could still do some good ones just one a smaller scale. You could also do them at your daughter’s house.
Your suggestion is the right one. A hard wired charger is always my favored approach.
Thanks
If you don't need an outlet why bother. Hard wire is the best connection possible. Plugs corrode and wear out. Even if the plug stays plugged in most of the time. If you use the outlet for other uses move the outlet and still hard wire the charger. It's the best alternative. 73
Agree ☝🏻
Until your charger device fails.
Thanks for the great info. My Model Y performance car should be delivered to me hopefully sometime next month. I recently bought the $150 14-50 outlet from Amazon even though it made me cringe to spend that kind of money on one outlet. Of course supply/demand takes over everything. Plus I've been on Tesla's waiting list to buy a 14-50 plug which has been out of stock. So now I went with your advice and I'm going with the 6-50 alternative instead. Cheaper outlet and cheaper wire for something that will do the same exact thing if you go with the 14-50. Doesn't make sense to go the more expensive route. Why spend the extra money going the 14-50 route if the neutral line isn't needed?
I learned so much since buying my Model Y in 2020. You’re absolutely right that the 14-50 is overkill for EV charging and I have no idea why it became so popular.
@@handydadtv I'm pretty sure it was because of RV parks. It was a semi-popular way to lvl 2 charge out in the wild in the early EV days. That and maybe because a lot of homes have a 14-50 for their stove as a makeshift way to lvl 2 charge with an extension cord.
I installed a 6-50 to use the UMC, but decided I wanted a more permanent solution after deciding I was going to keep the tesla for a while. I hard wired a Grizzl-e EVSE and it has been great. Really robust unit that should last forever. I just bought an extra J1772-Tesla adapter to leave on it permanently.
I wanted J1772 just in case something better than the Tesla came along or I got an electric quad or motorcycle.
Picking up my MYP this weekend.
Im probably going to hardwire the charger (wall connector).
I have a 40A breaker/outlet in the garage.
Not sure if i need to spend the extra $$ to run a 60A wire to the garage (40ft from main panel).
I only use maybe 10 miles/day. 😀
....because if you plan on ever selling your house the buyer will want a NEMA 14-50 since it's the most popular and therefore most likely the one that the buyer's charging equipment is compatible with.
@@jasonhadid7477 if the buyer wants a 14-50 outlet then he can pay someone to install it. Won’t be my problem.
Leviton - $12.95. I have used for 4 years with my Level 2 charger, remains cool.
Leviton here and just started over heating 🤣
Why tempt fate
@@handydadtv just bought a Bryant Receptacle
You must be careful using the Bryant! It is only rated for 60C. The Hubble is rated 75C. You must use 60C column for conductor ampacity. The GFCI requirement is required if your AHJ has adopted the 2020 NEC. That is the first it is required to be GFCI. I totally agree, it is best to hardwire the charger. I have no idea where people came up with thinking they need a 14-50r. BTW that is the receptacle used for larger RV power connection.
Thanks for the info!
@@handydadtv thanks a lot for both the videos. My electrician said he will just use a Leviton from HD but I now concerned. I am not a professional but #1 the link of the Bryant shows 14-30R; and #2 is that 60C vs 75C an issue for my Tesla M Y charging? Would appreciate if you can respond. Thx.
My preference, in order:
1. Hard wire a wall charger
2. Hubbell 6-50
3. Hubbell 14-50
4. Bryant 14-50
@@handydadtv I totally agree with your choices!
Both have an environmental rating in the spec PDF of 75C. However, neither device is actually marked 75C and therefore must be used as a 60C device. Both also come with instruction sheets which say to use conductors rated according to the 60C column. They are functionally and specs wise identical, and are very likely identical in manufacturing other than the stamped name. Both must use 6 gauge copper conductors in order to create a true 50A general use circuit. Neither may be used with aluminum conductors.
Hubbell 14-50 is down to $58.89 on Amazon as of April, 2024. Pretty wild price swings.
Wow!
One advantage of using a NEMA 6-50 receptacle is that you don't need to run the unused NEUTRAL 6-AWG wire from your panel to the receptacle, and it makes it easier to tuck the two 6-AWG hot wires and the 12-AWG ground wire in the back of the box.
The best is a hardwired charger.
The link to Bryant is now to their 14-30R. The 14-50R costs $200 on their website
That’s an issue on the Grainger website. The model and description are for the 14-50. The picture looks wrong. Call them.
Hi chris,can i use 2 wire with ground to nema 14-50.What will happen if there is no white wire?thanks
You need to make sure your EVSE doesn’t need it.
I ordered the Bryant NEMA 14-50r for an electric range, but the instructions state copper conductor only and I have aluminum conductor.
Do not use it with aluminum wire.
@@handydadtv I am shocked and dismayed that the Bryant NEMA 14-50r is not rated for aluminum conductor.I thought all good quality receptacles would be rated Cu/Al. I am of course gong to return it. Do you know of another better quality 14-50r that is rated for aluminum? I could pigtail the aluminum, but the rated connectors for connecting aluminum to copper are expensive in the size required for 4 AWG aluminum.
I’m sorry I don’t.
Great video! Thank you for sharing. I ended up going with Tesla home charger hard wired.
Great choice!
Good advice. Not sure why most tesla level 2 chargers include a 14-50P when no neutral is used. Why not just simplify and make a 6-50 as standard. The only time you really need a nema 14 wiring device, whether it be a 14-20R, 14-30R, 14-50R or 14-60R, is when you have a piece of equipment that is a combo line to neutral and line to line load, such as an electric dryer or range, amount certain other equipment. A nema 6 wiring device is cost effective for line to line loads. You can then run less costly XX/2 w/G NM cable and of course wrap a piece of black tape around the white conductor to re identify it as being a hot conductor.
I asked that question and someone commented that the 14-50 is a standard in RV parks everywhere. So I guess that’s why they are more popular for EVs.
@@handydadtv well that's logical. I enjoy camping and of course you cannot visit and RV park and not see a TT-30R and a 14-50R simultaneously. And larger RV is obviously a line to neutral and line to line load like your house. Thanks for your kind words I enjoyed your videos.
Great videos. Do you have any recommendations for 6/2 and 6/3 cables and circuit breakers? Thank you.
For circuit breakers, you need to stick with the brand and type for your panel.
No specific recommendation for wire, but some places require conduit instead of Romex like I used. Check local codes.
@@handydadtv Thank you again.
nice video. I agree that hardwire method is the best. BTW, your Bryant link goes to '14-30R' with 30A rating... I am little confused that description is different from picture...?!?
That appears to be a problem at Grainger. My link searches for model 9450FR. The correct model number and photo are shown, but the item name is wrong.
So if the fourth wire is not used, why do they make so many chargers with this 14-50 'extra-wire' plug rathher than the 67-50?...and what IS the purpose of the fourth wire?
The fourth wire is a neutral. They didn’t create this outlet for EV charging. I’m not sure why it became the more popular choice. Perhaps because it’s popular for RVs at campgrounds.
The price has calmed down a bit... about 70 bucks in Sept '23...
That’s really good.
I'm an engineer for Stellantis ( formerly known here in the U.S. as Chrysler) Unfortunately to stay true and " buy what I build " I have to wait a bit longer for a true EV. We have many products in the works, but I would like to have a set up ready in my garage, as I am in the middle of a renovation ( drywall down, new wiring and insulation). Whats your thoughts if I want to prepare while the walls are open? I'm thinking of putting 2 Chargers in ( one each for me and the wife) 2 outlets? 2 hardware preps?..... Thanks for posting your great content. So helpful in opening up discussions with many opinions giving feedback.
Although I have an outlet, I can definitely see the benefit of hard-wiring. But you have the unique advantage to just run the wires now and decide later.
Anthony, have you verified that your electrical service is large enough to supply power to two chargers at the same time? Doing a load calculation would be advisable. Very especially if you have a 100 amp service or 200 amp and an all electric home.
@@KevinCoop1 Kevin, good tip on the load calculation. Last year I had a new 200A panel installed with a whole home generator. Less than half of the box is currently being used , but to your point- a load test is a great starting point. I guess maybe where my question should have learned would have been " Is it NORMAL for someone to need or have 2 Chargers installed?" Thinking toward the future when more cars in a family are electric I can imagine fighting over the charger.... (not to mention kids with cars in the family...) Of course, the argument to that could be that technology will change...batteries will last longer, charged quicker...etc. Interesting times we are in to see this shift in vehicle's. Thanks again for the thought on load test. I'm sure and electrician would be more than happy to do the work to get me whatever I wanted.....😉
Question - Tesla Gen 3 charger doesn't require GFCI circuit breaker ?
The charger doesn’t require a GFCI; it has one built-in.
The outlet itself needs GFCI protection.
I didn't realize the GFCI breaker may be necessary for a circuit with Nema 15-50. I will have to research CA code.
Very few people care to comply with that code.
I agree hard wire is the way to go. My electric stove is hard wired.
That’s good 👍🏻
Was cost the only reason not to at the time of this video? Because it's available for about $60 again
If you’re definitely installing an outlet, I definitely recommend Hubbell. But I still believe a hardwired charger is the safer solution.
Great video! I never knew about the bryant option tuvm!
Thanks
Great video! I’m going to install a outlet level 2 charger in my garage. All over the internet it says to use nema 14-50 240v 50a outlet, i want to use Bryant but it says their outlet is nema 14-50R 125/250v. Can I use the Bryant 125/250v instead of the 240v? I’m confused what’s the difference, they both look alike. Thank you
It's the same thing. Everything is rated up to either 125V or 250V, even if it will only be used for 120 or 240 nominal. Sometimes they will say 125/250 because it's two 120V phases for a total of 240V, sometimes it will just say 250V.
@@ailivac thank you!!
Both are interchangeable.
Hi Chris, thank you for these informative videos. I am planning to install my charger ( not yet decided between Nema or hardwired) in my driveway. If I install a Nema plug I will need GFI breaker but what if I install hardwired charger like one you have in my driveway, will I still need a GFI breaker? Thanks for creating these videos.
You only need a GFCI breaker if you install an outlet.
@@handydadtv I see. So in this case I might be better off installing a hardwired device since cost of breaker will be more. Thank you for your reply.
Hard wiring is cheaper and safer.
Do you happen to know the terminal screw torque settings for Bryant 14-50 outlet? Thanks, HandyDad..
They’re in this video: ua-cam.com/video/1BnK4a4aVpU/v-deo.html
@@handydadtv thanks. I thought in this video link it was a Hubble outlet you were working on with the torque setting of 75 lb-in. Is it the same for Bryant outlet terminals too?
I never installed the Bryant. I just bought it for the comparison.
Question: are you sure that all EVSE's have on board electronics which are 240V native, and do *not* require the 120V circuit provided by the neutral missing on the 6-50R?
I only recommend using a 6-50 for EVSEs that come with 6-50 plugs.
Thanks for pointing out the need for a GFCI, a lot of videos about the mobile connectors leave that information out.
Many people debate that it’s not needed. 🤷🏻♂️
GFCI is not necessary. Not required by code. And GFCI protection is built into a EVSEs
@@NewPhase-kq1fu 2020 code removed all exceptions for 125-250V receptacles. Including things like dedicated dryer and oven receptacles. Plug-in EVSE's need to remove GFCI protection because of this, or better yet have it selectable as states on the 2017 code didn't require GFCI on 250V receptacles. Either way, doesn't seem smart to forego some kind of GFCI protection on a high powered circuit like that with a long cord and in a potentially wet environment.
@@andrewt9204 They don’t need to remove GFCI from EVSEs. Nothing wrong with redundancy. Where I am we’re still on 2017 code, so GFCI not required on 220v. But, doesn’t matter because again, EVSEs have GFCI protection built in. Not a safety issue, even in wet environments.
@@NewPhase-kq1fu The reason it is code (in 2020) is because the 240V outlets can be used for things other than EV charging. An outlet is an outlet. In fact, GFCI's have been required outdoors or in garages since 1975 (kitchens were added in 1987). But for decades they exempted 240V outlets because 240V outlets are rare (in America) and were only used for large appliances. But in 2020 this changed - most 240V outlets need GFCI now. In fact, even the washer/dryer are required to be GFCI protected now (this came after a kid was killed when he touched a faulty washer). I am surprised it took them until 2020 to require GFCI on 240V outlets.
So, while it is true that EV chargers come with built-in GFCI's, it is also true that you can use that outlet for other appliances that don't have GFCI protection. I suspect this is why it is now code. With the proliferation of EV's, we are gonna see people using those outlets for other things. One guy in the comments here said his wife uses his EV outlet for other stuff. So, yes, it happens. And that's why they want them GFCI protected.
Incidently, didn't realize it was so hard to find a specific faceplate for a nema 6-20R in a 2 gang (at the same place I'm buying everything else). A miele iron needs it. It was a 2gang because we originally planned for a 30 amp plug. I knew nothing about it so kept thinking I had the right one but turns out the holes were wrong.
I had that same problem with different 14-50 brands.
I like the idea of seeing a stacked two-gang 6-20R. Then, perhaps a lamp huge sculpture....
Thank you returning my outlet and hardwiring :)
Too bad you bought it in the first place.
Planning to go the hardwired route. The Emporia instructions say to use a 60 amp double pull. Sound accurate?
You can use UP TO 60 amps. That’s overkill in most situations. If you have a long run, go with 50-amp because the wire will be thinner. Copper is expensive.
You can use UP TO 60 amps. That’s overkill in most situations. If you have a long run, go with 50-amp because the wire will be thinner. Copper is expensive.
Hardwiring follow up on the Emporia. I was planning 6/3 romex. It appears their install instructions don't call for a neutral. Thoughts? Can 6/2 be used?
Correct. Just use 6/2. Level 2 chargers don’t need a neutral wire.
I’ve installed plenty Nema 14-50 from Home Depot and lowes that cost around 20 bucks . Haven’t had any issues so far . Works just fine .
Until it doesn’t.
@@handydadtv yeah, I agree. I bought the $150 Hubbell from Amazon a couple weeks ago. I took it to my local Lowes just to compare it to what they're selling. You can definitely see and feel the weight difference between the two. Why would anyone choose to "cheap out" on something like this when you're only going to install this type of outlet once for your EV? People need to remember how much power is flowing through these outlets. Yes, the cheaper ones from Lowes or HD will work. But for how long? Charging a Tesla can easily consume 30A or more on these outlets. Who wants to trust that kind of power going through a cheaper made outlet? No me.
Electrician here. I agree with V Ng. Properly installed standard NEMA 14-50 is fine. It’s rated for 50A, the chargers only pull 40A (80%). The burnt outlets you showed were likely due to poor installation. Why you should hire an electrician. Even when the prongs are melted that’s often the result of loose screw connections. The heat transfers from the back to the front of the outlet.
@@NewPhase-kq1fu I had one failure early on before Tesla started recommending the industrial outlets. It was properly installed by one of my jouneymen. I now exclusively use the industrial outlets for ev charging. While the cheap outlets are rated at 50 amps it isn't worth the risk of a call back.
One must be careful with higher ampacity receptacles. Hubbell was the first company to change their connections from 60 to 75C. There may still be some at the lower ratings. Not always easy to find the info. I agree with newphase.
I bought a hubbel from your link, but the product I received is slightly different. It does come with a box marked from Hubbel.
Does it clamp the wires the same way? I hate to think there may be counterfeits on Amazon.
@@handydadtv yes, it’s build is pretty robust. It just doesn’t come exactly like your, less logos on the front of the outlet.
You made excellent points for hard wire option 😀😀.
Thanks
April 2024 $58.00 on Amazon Hubbell 14-50 or the Bryant 14-50 which is a Hubbell part but different company name.
👍🏻
Thanks so much! relatives shopping now for new EV, and having price shock re the Hubbell!
I'm not sure all codes require GFI breakers for EVSE plug-in install... The Tesla charge cable doesn't always work well on GFI outlets either, as it has GFI built-in
The Tesla UMC has no issue with my GFCI breaker.
GFCI is totally un-necessary unless you will charge outdoors and the plug socket in the car gets wet.
@Geoff Where does it say that in the code?
@@handydadtv NEC 2020 Section 625.54, which covers electric vehicle charging systems with regards to GFCI protection for personnel. The protection requirements have been expanded to require all receptacles installed for the connection of electric vehicle charging to have GFCI protection. The previous requirements of single-phase, 150 volts to ground or less, and 50 amperes or less have been removed. These changes were made to clarify the intent of providing GFCI protection for personnel and all cord and plug connected electric vehicle power transfer equipment, regardless of phase, voltage or amperage ratings.
As I understand it all EV chargers have built in protection. So ADDITIONAL GFCI is totally un-necessary however I would still consider it if the cord could lay in the rain or somehow a connector or adapter could be connected before the GFCI part of the circuit is connected then it may be a hazard. I don't know how every different EV charger is designed so it should really be case by case.
One comment I would make about the use of a hardwired vs. portable EVSE: If you go with a portable EVSE, you will have to install an outlet in your garage, but with a portable, you will have the option to use it at any RV camp ground that has 50 amp (NEMA 14-50) hookups at the campsite pads. I have in fact charged my Prius Prime at campgrounds several times, albeit with the Level 1 charger that came with the car, but that was because my Level 2 EVSE has a NEMA 10-30 plug on it for the laundry dryer outlet in my garage, and you will never see a 10-30 outlet at a campground. The fact is, that the NEMA 14-50 is the de-facto standard for L2 charger power supply. Because homes built before 1996 mostly have NEMA 10-30's for the laundry dryer power, you can find EVSE's that come with a 10-30 plug, but they are limited to 16 amps. That's okay for a Prius Prime or an older Chevy Volt, but woefully inadequate to charge a Tesla, Bolt, Hyumdai Ionic, or Leaf. You need a 32~40 amp EVSE to be able to charge these EV's with big traction batteries in a single overnight session. At 16 amps, it takes 18 hours to charge a Tesla, and that's no good if you need the car for a daily commute to work. So the old 30 amp dryer outlets in pre-1996 homes are not really an ideal solution for EV owners with 50+ kilowatt-hour batteries in their car.
In researching portable Level 2 EVSE's on Amazon, I found that the vast majority (85%) come with NEMA 14-50 plugs. There are 3 or 4 brands that are available with NEMA 10-30 plugs, but these are all limited to 16 amps. I found only 1 that comes with a NEMA 6-50 plug. It was a 32-amp unit, which is good, but because of the limited demand for EVSE's with 6-50 plugs, it was $399, whereas the exact same brand and model of EVSE with a 14-50 plug was $299. And if you ever think you might want to charge your EV at a campground, you would be far better off with a 14-50 plug, and that's the universal standard for motorhomes and large travel trailers that have 240 volt air conditioning units. Smaller RV's generally come with a TT-30 plug on their shorepower cable, but that's a 120 volt line, not 240.
Now there's one workaround for this situation: Install a Bryant NEMA 6-50R in your garage, and buy a portable 32 amp EVSE with a 14-50 plug, and an adapter cable that's got a 6-50P on one end, and a 14-50R on the other. You have the benefit of a less expensive outlet installation in your garage, a 32 amp EVSE that you can use at any camp ground, and that will also work at home with a $25 6-30P to 14-50R adapter. Also keep in mind that if your circuit breaker box is more than 10 feet from where you want to install the new outlet, a 6-50 outlet can be wired with 6-2 Romex, costing $4.50/foot at Home Depot. If you go with a 14-50 outlet, you will have to use 6-3 Romex, which is $7.50/foot. That extra cost adds up fast if your run of wire is, say, 30 or 40 feet.
Good info! Thanks! FYI, technically my Tesla portable charger can charge at 32 amps max, but I reduce the rate to 15 amps because that’s plenty to recharge my daily commute. Very few people drive 250 miles a day.
You completely missed the point of these videos. Adding an additional pair of connectors and using smaller gauge wires is NOT the way to go for everyday charging, it's dangerous. Convenience is nice, but physics is physics and connector spring weakening and plating wear all but guarantees connector overheating, particularly with long-duration, maximum-current EV charging sessions approaching 12kW, a tremendous level of power. If you don't believe us, ask any of your local firemen.
Do hardwired EV charges require GFCI. Technically it is not a receptacle?
No, not if they are hard-wired.