My utility company offers a discount for charging during night hours. A 240 volt charger would be a necessity for me to get sufficient charge during the discount period.
There are extension cords available, which will combine two 120V level 1 outlets across different circuits in your house, and create a 240V combined output (the same which you get at your meter input) and then you can have a nearly 3.5kw charging output, but which is powered by two different level 1 charging. Let's say 3kw to account for the cord length inefficiency.
DO NOT USE THIS or anything like it. 240 V service uses two phases that are 180 degrees apart. If the length of the wires from the load all the way back to the panel are different, you will not get 240 V. Also, each leg (hot wire) will be controlled by a different breaker and they will not be mechanically interlocked. Meaning they will not trip together. You will not see one of these cords with UL approval because they are unsafe and noncompliant with code.
@@CRuM770 The length of the conductors are irrelevant. Electrical devices can still operate efficiently with a plus or minus variance in voltage by as much as 15~ volts. And in order to see a voltage reduction greater than 15 volts due to length of cable, you'd have to have a length of cable a few hundred feet long. The only real risk is the breakers not tripping together.
If you live in a congested city environment you often have to wait in line to get gasoline, which represents a 4-minute charge time for energy for your car. Imagine the parking required as the electric cars stack up waiting in line for a half-hour charge using a "high-speed" charger, which may be bad for current batteries. Imagine the total costs. For apartment dwellers, a hybrid gas vehicle is the better choice. Homeowners in the suburbs and farms are the best customers for electric vehicles in their current primitive state of battery development.
This is true. We're a long way off from a time when EVs are a good choice for every driver. My daily driver is a Mach-E, but when it came time to help find a car for my brother, who lives in an apartment in mid-Michigan, a gently used hybrid was a WAY more sensible decision. -Ben
Saw a cool device on Technology Connections that can help if your service panel is full up. It taps off one of the other 240v breakers for, say, your drier and intelligently switches between the two devices based on use so you can’t overload the circuit but still have both abilities (ie just delay your clothes drying while you top up, or vice Versa for the hour you need to dry clothes).
Homes in the north don't have dryer outlets in their garage, since it gets too cold. If you do have one, it limited to a sustained draw 24 amps. That's a maxmum rate of 5.7 kW.
@ALMX5DP Correct. You are limited to that breaker's capacity, minus the 20% safety margin. 30-amp tends to be the biggest in most panels for household devices. That would deliver 24 amps for vehicle charging.
@@john1701a sure I guess you’d be limited either way, I was just providing a solution to those who might be maxed out on their service or have no open breaker slots in their panel.
I upgraded my wiring to 8 gauge accommodate a 30amp charger. I scheduled charging at night. I don't know why people spend more money for a fancy charger when you still have to upgrade your wiring anyway.
You don't need a charging unit. I have two Teslas. Bought a charger for the first one. Added a NEMA 14-50 outlet for the second. The 14-50 outlet gives me everything I get from the charger. Plus, I can take the cable with me and charge at RV parks if I get in a bind.
The convenience of home level 2 charging is fantastic. No more stopping for gas or making a special trip to and from the gas station to be ready for the next day when you won't have time to stop for gas. Just getting to the station and back used up part of the gas you bought!. I feel sorry for folks in apartments and have to use public chargers, this needs to get fixed before EVs can really gain a lot of market share.
The tesla mobile charger on 240 isn't that much slower than a hardwired level 2. 30 miles an hour vs 48 on a model 3 long range. If you do a hard wired level 2 and have a circuit breaker with the ampacity near where you park you may want to wire with expansion in mind. Go large gage to a sub panel or pull two runs to add a second charger later. Think what is your most likely upgrade and even home resale. Having just a 14-50 outlet that only needed about 3 feet of wire from the breaker box in a perfect spot for a charger sure was a popular feature of the house I sold in CA.
Need your advice…i live in flat and looking for an extension cable for kia level 1 charger provided by manufacturer..do you think 50 meter extension lead will work ? Will the normal extension lead will do the job ? Regular one from BQ
I think an important caveat to this information although it may have been mentioned is that level one charging is only 80% efficient where level two charging is like 95% efficient.
@@gedionsamuel2256 Yes perhaps. But, it may not provide you with enough range and depending on ambient conditions and your specific car, the battery support systems may use so much power that you don’t hardly get a charge.
Around towers: your charging losses jump to ~25% (from ~8%) when using a granny charger instead of level 2. Urban dwellers: be prepared to pay 2-3x as much compared to charging at home. Other than that it’s fine.
Is there something wrong with any 220 backyard outlets that are over 25 years old? Never used it before, it just that came with the house, but the EV would need to be plugged in like 45 feet away with a super long chord if they even make them that long? ( front driveway to backyard plug is like 45 feet in distance)
We aren't electricians or the fire department, so we're not up-to-date on code and stuff like that so take this with a grain of salt, but power is power. You might have to set the EVSE to only work at 30 amps, or 24 amps, or whatever those outlets max amps are. Code does require 20% overhead (so a 40 amp charger needs a 50 amp breaker). As for cord length, you probably lose some efficiency. EVSEs typically have a maximum of 20-25ft length, though.
Great video. Just got an Ioniq 5 and am retired so the 110v charger seems to be fine. Is electricity cheaper certain times of the day like evening and if yes how do I find out the cost?
Tesla recommends frequent charges to 100% for LFP cars, so yes these owners do need L2 at home (ideally). But I can’t figure why anybody needs anything approaching 48a L2. The $200 Tesla mobil (portable) charger is way more than enough to provide a my M3 a full over night charge…..even when set to something like 15a. Why worry about charging any EV so quickly at home when the car is probably available for charge 8-10 hours overnight. Any vehicle appropriate 24a 14-50 EVSE is more than adequate for the great majority of people.
Totally agree on the 48A comment, Bob. As we'll get into in an upcoming video, we think higher-amp EVSEs are more necessary for the Ford Lightnings and Hummer EVs of the world. Stay tuned, and thanks for commenting!
Tesla recommends 100% at least once per week for the LFP battery. We have the Model 3 LFP and it charges at 5miles/hr. with level one charging. Plug it in at 8pm and unplug at 6am gives 50 miles indicated range. Plenty for our needs so far with 3500 miles.
If you want to inform people, start with correct terminology. PHEVs and BEVs already come with a charger - built in to the vehicle. EV service equipment, on the other hand, is the cable which connects the power source to the vehicle.
Terminology is important, yes, but no normal buyers know that or make the distinction. So we could call it an EVSE and have nobody watch it or be helpful, or we can call it a charger and reach a large pool of people who bought EVs.
Talking about terminology: it's not just the "cable" per se you need to charge an EV. It's EVSE. That's a proper terminology. And EVSE has price. Installation cost also has price. Point of this video was to introduce cost for buying an EVSE (Level 2 charger in this case) and cost of installation at your garage or home. Maybe next time correct your own terminology.
@@petermadany2779 The companies that sell EVSEs call them chargers. The only people who are insistent on the terminology are commenters on the internet. And if you're trying to actually relay useful information to the masses, you call it what the people call it.
A major misconception/mindset is charging to full when at work. Sure, it's nice so you don't have to charge at home or around town, but you realistically just need to charge enough to recoup what it took to get to work to break even. Cars with 200+ miles or range do not need to be charged daily, let alone after every trip. It's a huge difference between range anxiety and the artificial need to always be topped up.
level 1 are so inefficient, ,around only 70% as the rest goes to the cars battery care,, heating / cooling etc,, so you re paying 30% for no miles,,, level 2 are over 90%
very slow charging is accompanied by huge losses. The onboard charger itself needs energy while charging. This can consume between 200-300 watts. so es you can Calculator Nyon to hundred out of Two thousand Watts is way Higher denn to hundred Audorf, nein thousand Watts and after, weil Atwell Pile Up immens Lee and Fifteen percent of the Energy you use to George Round and up in the car Bad on your electricity ill furthermore, the parts in your car, responsible for charging have an expected life endurance. They can guarantee to work for certain amount of hours, and when you charge five times as low for the same amount of kilometers or miles that you drive the components have to work five times longer and if the car is on, that’s only know two states one is charging and one is driving then they will never rest and are more prone to breakage than parts in a car that charges at the sweet spot speed which is around 6 to 11 kW
Stop using the misleading term "charger". Chargers are built-in and part of your EV. What you really mean is "Connector" - a fancy term for "extension cord".
But it's an EVSE, so calling it a Connector is just as "misleading" by your definition. Look, the bottom line is people search for chargers, and nearly every single EVSE manufacturer calls them chargers. Is it technically accurate? No. It's also not technically accurate to call Chevrolet Chevy or Coca-Cola Coke. Yet, here we are. We make videos for people, so for people to find our stuff we use terminology people use. Tesla also calls it Full Self Driving but the car doesn't drive itself.
@@Uriah625 This 100 YEAR Comparison of China vs USA with tech stolen is hilarious. You would HOPE they could figure out how to improve the eficiency of the systems in that time period! If they were that great, with the advent of computers which we invented, it's kinda disappointing they can't innovate anything and have to steal. LMAO!
Warning NJ residents, DON'T purchase the Tesla Chargers.!!! WAIT until they are added to the rebate program. (-$250 ) Brings the Total from $636.65 with Tax, down to $386.65 . I'm working on getting the Board of public utilities to add Tesla. If anyone out there has a connection to someone at Tesla, please ask them to inquire about getting their chargers on the list
My utility company offers a discount for charging during night hours. A 240 volt charger would be a necessity for me to get sufficient charge during the discount period.
There are extension cords available, which will combine two 120V level 1 outlets across different circuits in your house, and create a 240V combined output (the same which you get at your meter input) and then you can have a nearly 3.5kw charging output, but which is powered by two different level 1 charging. Let's say 3kw to account for the cord length inefficiency.
DO NOT USE THIS or anything like it. 240 V service uses two phases that are 180 degrees apart. If the length of the wires from the load all the way back to the panel are different, you will not get 240 V. Also, each leg (hot wire) will be controlled by a different breaker and they will not be mechanically interlocked. Meaning they will not trip together. You will not see one of these cords with UL approval because they are unsafe and noncompliant with code.
@@CRuM770 The length of the conductors are irrelevant. Electrical devices can still operate efficiently with a plus or minus variance in voltage by as much as 15~ volts. And in order to see a voltage reduction greater than 15 volts due to length of cable, you'd have to have a length of cable a few hundred feet long.
The only real risk is the breakers not tripping together.
If you live in a congested city environment you often have to wait in line to get gasoline, which represents a 4-minute charge time for energy for your car. Imagine the parking required as the electric cars stack up waiting in line for a half-hour charge using a "high-speed" charger, which may be bad for current batteries. Imagine the total costs. For apartment dwellers, a hybrid gas vehicle is the better choice. Homeowners in the suburbs and farms are the best customers for electric vehicles in their current primitive state of battery development.
This is true. We're a long way off from a time when EVs are a good choice for every driver. My daily driver is a Mach-E, but when it came time to help find a car for my brother, who lives in an apartment in mid-Michigan, a gently used hybrid was a WAY more sensible decision.
-Ben
Saw a cool device on Technology Connections that can help if your service panel is full up. It taps off one of the other 240v breakers for, say, your drier and intelligently switches between the two devices based on use so you can’t overload the circuit but still have both abilities (ie just delay your clothes drying while you top up, or vice Versa for the hour you need to dry clothes).
Homes in the north don't have dryer outlets in their garage, since it gets too cold. If you do have one, it limited to a sustained draw 24 amps. That's a maxmum rate of 5.7 kW.
@@john1701a I’m talking about what is essentially a smart sub panel that taps off the breaker(s) that you want to share.
@ALMX5DP Correct. You are limited to that breaker's capacity, minus the 20% safety margin. 30-amp tends to be the biggest in most panels for household devices. That would deliver 24 amps for vehicle charging.
@@john1701a sure I guess you’d be limited either way, I was just providing a solution to those who might be maxed out on their service or have no open breaker slots in their panel.
I upgraded my wiring to 8 gauge accommodate a 30amp charger. I scheduled charging at night. I don't know why people spend more money for a fancy charger when you still have to upgrade your wiring anyway.
You don't need a charging unit. I have two Teslas. Bought a charger for the first one. Added a NEMA 14-50 outlet for the second. The 14-50 outlet gives me everything I get from the charger. Plus, I can take the cable with me and charge at RV parks if I get in a bind.
The convenience of home level 2 charging is fantastic. No more stopping for gas or making a special trip to and from the gas station to be ready for the next day when you won't have time to stop for gas. Just getting to the station and back used up part of the gas you bought!. I feel sorry for folks in apartments and have to use public chargers, this needs to get fixed before EVs can really gain a lot of market share.
This is true. But I think we are starting to see some headway here; some apartment complexes are installing chargers for their tenants.
The tesla mobile charger on 240 isn't that much slower than a hardwired level 2. 30 miles an hour vs 48 on a model 3 long range.
If you do a hard wired level 2 and have a circuit breaker with the ampacity near where you park you may want to wire with expansion in mind. Go large gage to a sub panel or pull two runs to add a second charger later. Think what is your most likely upgrade and even home resale. Having just a 14-50 outlet that only needed about 3 feet of wire from the breaker box in a perfect spot for a charger sure was a popular feature of the house I sold in CA.
🔥🔥🔥 Awesome episode!
Need your advice…i live in flat and looking for an extension cable for kia level 1 charger provided by manufacturer..do you think 50 meter extension lead will work ? Will the normal extension lead will do the job ? Regular one from BQ
I think an important caveat to this information although it may have been mentioned is that level one charging is only 80% efficient where level two charging is like 95% efficient.
Level 1 charging is literally trickle charging which I’d imagine would be more beneficial to the battery in the long run.
@@gedionsamuel2256 Yes perhaps. But, it may not provide you with enough range and depending on ambient conditions and your specific car, the battery support systems may use so much power that you don’t hardly get a charge.
Around towers: your charging losses jump to ~25% (from ~8%) when using a granny charger instead of level 2.
Urban dwellers: be prepared to pay 2-3x as much compared to charging at home.
Other than that it’s fine.
Is there something wrong with any 220 backyard outlets that are over 25 years old? Never used it before, it just that came with the house, but the EV would need to be plugged
in like 45 feet away with a super long chord if they even make them that long? ( front driveway to backyard plug is like 45 feet in distance)
We aren't electricians or the fire department, so we're not up-to-date on code and stuff like that so take this with a grain of salt, but power is power. You might have to set the EVSE to only work at 30 amps, or 24 amps, or whatever those outlets max amps are. Code does require 20% overhead (so a 40 amp charger needs a 50 amp breaker). As for cord length, you probably lose some efficiency. EVSEs typically have a maximum of 20-25ft length, though.
Great video. Just got an Ioniq 5 and am retired so the 110v charger seems to be fine. Is electricity cheaper certain times of the day like evening and if yes how do I find out the cost?
Your power company will have details about off-peak charging. It varies by provider.
Tesla recommends frequent charges to 100% for LFP cars, so yes these owners do need L2 at home (ideally). But I can’t figure why anybody needs anything approaching 48a L2. The $200 Tesla mobil (portable) charger is way more than enough to provide a my M3 a full over night charge…..even when set to something like 15a. Why worry about charging any EV so quickly at home when the car is probably available for charge 8-10 hours overnight. Any vehicle appropriate 24a 14-50 EVSE is more than adequate for the great majority of people.
Totally agree on the 48A comment, Bob. As we'll get into in an upcoming video, we think higher-amp EVSEs are more necessary for the Ford Lightnings and Hummer EVs of the world. Stay tuned, and thanks for commenting!
Tesla recommends 100% at least once per week for the LFP battery. We have the Model 3 LFP and it charges at 5miles/hr. with level one charging. Plug it in at 8pm and unplug at 6am gives 50 miles indicated range. Plenty for our needs so far with 3500 miles.
If you want to inform people, start with correct terminology. PHEVs and BEVs already come with a charger - built in to the vehicle. EV service equipment, on the other hand, is the cable which connects the power source to the vehicle.
Terminology is important, yes, but no normal buyers know that or make the distinction. So we could call it an EVSE and have nobody watch it or be helpful, or we can call it a charger and reach a large pool of people who bought EVs.
Talking about terminology: it's not just the "cable" per se you need to charge an EV. It's EVSE. That's a proper terminology. And EVSE has price. Installation cost also has price. Point of this video was to introduce cost for buying an EVSE (Level 2 charger in this case) and cost of installation at your garage or home. Maybe next time correct your own terminology.
@@petermadany2779 The companies that sell EVSEs call them chargers. The only people who are insistent on the terminology are commenters on the internet. And if you're trying to actually relay useful information to the masses, you call it what the people call it.
Also probably not worth it if you plan to move soon. You will not recoup the $2K it might cost to add L2 charging when selling your house
$2K? I just had one installed for $700, including a new fuse group and cabling.
A major misconception/mindset is charging to full when at work. Sure, it's nice so you don't have to charge at home or around town, but you realistically just need to charge enough to recoup what it took to get to work to break even. Cars with 200+ miles or range do not need to be charged daily, let alone after every trip. It's a huge difference between range anxiety and the artificial need to always be topped up.
Agreed! Please see our 80% "rule" explanation for more on that: ua-cam.com/video/wzfKTq7sT84/v-deo.html
level 1 are so inefficient, ,around only 70% as the rest goes to the cars battery care,, heating / cooling etc,, so you re paying 30% for no miles,,, level 2 are over 90%
very slow charging is accompanied by huge losses. The onboard charger itself needs energy while charging. This can consume between 200-300 watts. so es you can Calculator Nyon to hundred out of Two thousand Watts is way Higher denn to hundred Audorf, nein thousand Watts and after, weil Atwell Pile Up immens Lee and Fifteen percent of the Energy you use to George Round and up in the car Bad on your electricity ill furthermore, the parts in your car, responsible for charging have an expected life endurance. They can guarantee to work for certain amount of hours, and when you charge five times as low for the same amount of kilometers or miles that you drive the components have to work five times longer and if the car is on, that’s only know two states one is charging and one is driving then they will never rest and are more prone to breakage than parts in a car that charges at the sweet spot speed which is around 6 to 11 kW
charging at level 1 all the time sounds miserable. Charge constantly
Yeah, you need Level 2.
So if you drive a lot and have no garage you’re screwed.
Adds 2 or 3 miles an hour while charging HA HA HA standard in Europe is 25 miles plus an hour while charging
Did he get another burst of energy lol
Whoever did that install needs a few lessons... conduit job done by a 9 year old..
Stop using the misleading term "charger". Chargers are built-in and part of your EV. What you really mean is "Connector" - a fancy term for "extension cord".
Consumers call it a charger. Consumers recognize it as a charger. People who sell EVSEs call them chargers. So we call them chargers.
@@EVPulse - Tesla, who makes EVs, calls it a Connector so I call it a Connector.
But it's an EVSE, so calling it a Connector is just as "misleading" by your definition. Look, the bottom line is people search for chargers, and nearly every single EVSE manufacturer calls them chargers. Is it technically accurate? No. It's also not technically accurate to call Chevrolet Chevy or Coca-Cola Coke. Yet, here we are.
We make videos for people, so for people to find our stuff we use terminology people use. Tesla also calls it Full Self Driving but the car doesn't drive itself.
I'll just buy gas. Did you know in 2023 CHINA STILL is building ONE Coal fired Electric plant a Week?
Did you know that a lot of retired Navy nuclear plant operators get jobs in China as techs or engineers in their nuclear plant construction?
@@guytuba Did you know that China is facing economic and demographic crisis?
Did you know that China built Three Gorges Gam with a power output potential of 22,500 megawatts. Hoover Dam makes 2,100 for comparison.
@@Uriah625 I would hope they could figure something out with every technology they've stolen from Non-Communist countries, and the point is?
@@Uriah625 This 100 YEAR Comparison of China vs USA with tech stolen is hilarious. You would HOPE they could figure out how to improve the eficiency of the systems in that time period! If they were that great, with the advent of computers which we invented, it's kinda disappointing they can't innovate anything and have to steal. LMAO!
Warning NJ residents, DON'T purchase the Tesla Chargers.!!! WAIT until they are added to the rebate program. (-$250 ) Brings the Total from $636.65 with Tax, down to $386.65 . I'm working on getting the Board of public utilities to add Tesla. If anyone out there has a connection to someone at Tesla, please ask them to inquire about getting their chargers on the list
We all n÷d level 2 charging as it 10% more energy efficient.