KTM EXC TPI Fuel Injection: How it Evolved
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- A lot of years of work and effort have been invested in this system, after almost 14 years ktm came up with a solution that works. The first version of fuel injected 2 stroke was called the orbital, the engine behaved very strangely and did not have the classic sound of a 2 stroke engine. It was also very difficult to fit that system into the existing engine chassis. So they gave up on that solution because they believed that customers would not buy such an engine with strange working performance. The second version was called DI System, which would mean directed injection. The system is almost the same as the TPI, but the difference is that here the fuel is injected direct into the cylinder and with the TPI it first goes to the transfer ports. This system worked very well, even ktm intended to put it up for sale in 2015. On the 250EXC it was almost perfect but on the 300EXC the engine overheated and so they gave up on this system. After that, they tried not to inject fuel directly, but first into the transfer ports before the piston. The solution proved to be the best, and so the TPI project was born. Ktm perfected it for a couple of years and then put it up for sale with name of EXC TPI models.
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Music:
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Only the 2020 TPI actually corrects mixtures for altitude while riding....
The Earlier models only measure atmospheric pressure at start up and then disregard the sensor while running.
This is why some owners bike run poorly while others run fine.
I can only agree👍
Meanwhile my 2019 KTM 300 TPI runs much better than my 2020 and 2021 model - no matter where I go up or down in altitude.
@@kimojon9665
KTM, still prototype testing on its poor customers 😏
@@Danger_mouse look at the prices - customers are definitely not poor lol!
Fuel savings Not 30-40% more like 13-14%
I have 2020 300 exc and the bike is just perfect feels almost like 125 with tons of power and nice response just love it 👍👍
Me too I love my 300, only adjusted powervalves to my liking and bam perfect running since day 1. This thing is a serious weapon.
Are they still making the TPI model?
His name is Neil Hintz
aside from emissions the Keihn carburetors fitted with STIC metering block on traditional two stroke dirt bikes make the TPI injected two strokes obsolete in my opinion and overcome drawbacks normally seen with carburetor fitted 2-stroke dirtbikes
On the other hand there is zero reasons that EFI can not be improved even more I would think ....Can a carb work by wire like efi? also idk but it seems like the the fuel pressure of an injection system could also combine small amount of oil and fuel in a just in time manner and injected as cooling lubrication to whatever areas might benefit loke bearings and maybe piston
No thanks, I'll keep my carb...
mmmm not the real first company with a 2 stroke injection... i have a 2011 ossa tr280I.. A trialsbike what is olso a 2 stroke with injection.
This is not about the oil-injection. Every Japanese manufacturer had that in the 70's. This is about fuel-injection. Your old Ossa still had a carburetor...
@@charleswarner2237 no, ossa was fuel injected
Yes, just like my little oil injected 1981 Suzuki ds80 when I was 7.
@@charleswarner2237 The last generation of Ossa trials bikes had a full fuel injection system and it worked amazing - I know because I rode them , the current Vertigo trials bike as developed by Dougie Lampkin is inspired by the Ossa who wad the first to perfect Fi in off-road 2 strokes
i am first xd
Would be interesting if there was not this awful slavic house music in the background...
AND... the computer-generated voice reading abbreviations... PSI (pronounced SY?) :-)
KTM styled their Transfer port injection system after a New Zealander's EFI YZ250
First startup 7 years ago. Well before KTM:- ua-cam.com/video/hOGZ5llowoU/v-deo.html
On the Dyno:- ua-cam.com/video/UEQli7nuak4/v-deo.html
And an old F5 Kawasaki converted to EFI:- ua-cam.com/video/eleqBGvOM4M/v-deo.html
When I saw the title I was hoping someone would be pointing that out in the comments
haha crazy to see how much time they investetd to create a perfect fuel injected bike! but it was worth it they are sooo good.
Perfect ??
Yes, nobody cares it wasn’t a “better” bike. Getting it street legal is more important, it is such a good bike it’s worth the sacrifice of 3 extra kg
Neil Hintz’s TPI YZ250 has been running sweet for 9 years. The problem for KTM was that they couldn’t patent it and then licence it for others to manufacture.
i have 2017 300 exc with lectron. i dont touch the carb all yr long, I also ride at 400m asl as well as 2000asl with no issues and no need for adjustment. I get very good mileage. all that without 3kg of electronic crap subject to failure
Lectron in awesome, my causing have put it on his yz125 now you must be carefull you dont fall on the back when you put on trottle
I hear the smart carb is even better
outboards got fuel injection in the 90´s. there are many di two stroke engines. tohatsu tldi, yamaha hpdi, evinrude e tec just to name few. also snowmobiles got similar engines
Beta riders dont nead thease... Turn it off... 🤪
Beta is crazy monster
We sure hope that the Japanese brands will also make fuel injected 2 stroke bikes on motocross, cross country and enduro type bikes, just to bring them back in that manner.
yep in future they will need to make i
Considering they did it first on sleds they should have an easier path!
Hmm, oil tanks that crack and oil pumps that fail, I'll stick to my carb'd 300 thanks. In fact the wiring on the carb'd bikes is pretty poor, really thin brittle wires are used, TPI must have a load more wires so I hope they have improved the quality of the loom.
LOL did the voice REALLY say "EEFEE" instead of seperate letters E F I? how ignorant sounding!! LOL then is followed up with "Carb yew rate ah " Was this edited by a non english speaker using computer voice reader or what? SO IGNORANT sounding!
Sounds like fuel injection is just a bunch of problems people just need to stop being lazy and learn to work on their bikes and learn to ride them and quit trying to make them easier to ride the best days of motocross is when there was very little technology on your bikes and they were f****** scary to ride nowadays everything basically rides itself it is taking away from the fun but that's just me and my opinion
At the end of the day if japanese manufacturers would make hard enduro dirtbikes we wpuld not have to think and look closely to what to buy you would just buy a japanese dirbike and you would be happy, it so sad thay dont make any 300 2 strokes haha
Love our 2020 300xc TPI, very rad look at the development
It’s cool and all, but I’ll stick with a lightweight and simple YZ250X.
Human narrator would have been better.
Sounds like a BOT talking
What might a street version of this motor be like? Side by side 300cc motors on a common crank? Or side by side THREE 250 motors on common crank! Be SO fast! But with modern electronics could also be ridden tame as a kitten if so desired ....a rain mode a mild mode, a street mode and of course a full power crazy Track Mode The RC3!
I cant believe EFI 2 strokes werent made widespread before the new regulations in 2006...Even Polaris had an EFI snowmobile in 1991, and by 1999 they had a 32bit ECU controlled, sequential firing DIRECT INJECTION, 135hp 3 cylinder 2 stroke injection in 1999 on a 1200cc jetski! (Genesis 1200)
It cost the EXACTLY the same MSRP as the slower and less stable 130hp SeaDoo GTX and weighed the same too. Only issue was the computers werent fully watertight and or would have chips go bad from overheating!
KTM 2030
im surprise this didnt happen sooner my 1972 ts 250 was oil injected what was the hold up with the fuel
the older oil "injected" motors were quite simple really... they kept the oil in a separate reservoir and pumped it into the carb as it was pulling air and fuel into the motor. a certain amount of oil was pre-set to be pulled into the motor as the fuel and air was pulled in from vacuum. Now with the fuel injection models it has to inject the fuel and oil into the chamber (post reed valve) at just the right time, thus requiring computer systems (TPS, CAS, MAP sensors) to operate.
@@evanwilliams6352 I think you underestimate the old systems. Most old Suzuki and some Kawasaki injection systems ran oil not only to the intake port (in the cylinder, after the carb) but also down to the crank and lower rod bearings. A lot of those bikes came with a non-slotted rod big-end in order to hold the pumped oil better and reduce consumption. This also had the side effect of blocking premix oil from reaching the bearings, leading to the old wisdom that "you can't run mix in an injected Suzuki". These systems even adjusted the oil volume by RPM and by throttle position. Compared to mix, they ran very oil-lean at idle and low speeds, but moved tons during flat-out running, which meant they were better lubricated than mix bikes even though they used about half as much oil on average. I'm sure the modern systems do better, partly due to there being no fuel in the crankcase washing oil away, but the old systems were still very very good. In the 60s they thought 2-strokes were the future, and were getting the technology ready to go into cars and airplanes and everything.
The Dirtbike Robot .
Muy interesante, el próximo con subtítulos en español, por favor. Gracias.
Love my tpi. Great video
Vrey informative! Thank you!
What you are calling di sure looks like injectors in the cylinder like tpi?
E Fee?
10 minute video with an ad at the beginning and an ad 1:30 secs into video
Oil atomized by the reed block? nope.
Who's idea was it put music into this video 🤬
You need to do a bit more research before posting KTM propoganda. Neil Hintz, the builder of the YZ250 with TPI in the video, built that bike 10+ years ago and it is still going fine. KTM were unable to patent the TPI due to Neil making it public knowledge a very long time ago. KTMs patent application was denied. Neil now has a new improved Mk2 TPI. We're all waiting for KTMs version to appear.
That is true, but for KTM was not only important to make fuel injected. It was also important to make bike what will pass strict emissions regulations here in EU. Neil also did big work, but its sad he didn't put his product on market for sale.
so many development and still TPI sucks...main reason I went with Sherco.
That's' great. I love my TPI and run the chit out of it. No problems at all, love the bike, best two stroke I've ever owned and I've been riding for 40 years.
perhaps that home made system you didn't have any more info about, has more to do with the KTM TPI than you think...........
Absolutely. If i remember corectly, it was Neil Hintz Project isn't it?
@@RahmatMSTF ;)
Thanks for sharing
Tpi is not invented by KTM. It has been invented by some old engineer in his shed.
Neil Hintz in NZ was doing it well before KTM
Great Video
*KTM is the future*
En español?
You guys should look into snowmobile 2 strokes,they had fuel injection since 1990
thats completely different, that only mixed the oil with the fuel without having to premix the fuel yourself. still uses a carb.
@@evanwilliams6352 still uses a carb?
@@vicgeier3482 yes still uses a carburetor, which requires manual adjustments for tuning. What you're referring to is the oil injection, which mixes the oil into the fuel, at the carburetor, so that you don't have to premix the fuel before hand.
@@evanwilliams6352 they don't use carburetors,snowmobiles use injectors,Arctic Cat was the first battery less efi.
@@vicgeier3482 hmmm i see that now, i was wrong.. i just remember as a kid riding some of the old arctic cats and bombardier's that stated they were "injected" but in reality they still had carbs. we would cut that system out and just premix the fuel for peace of mind. so these must have been different models that i hadn't seen before.
I need motor like this can you send me one please 250
ee fee?
Oil atomised by the reed block? Please explain 🤔
I recently bought a new 2502019 tpi and was very disappointed with the engines performance. The oil didn’t mix with the fuel before heading into the engine causing nothing good, the bike was unresponsive and unlike how a fuel injected engine should run and lacked overall power, maybe the 300 is ok with the bigger bore to compensate for the issues but idk, when changing altitudes the bike would run like crap, bog out and cut out, Checked fuel filter and it was clean so I sold the POS, worst money I ever wasted. I completely disagree with this video, they didn’t get it right. Maybe by the 10th try they will make some traction.
I had the same yr 250 and mine ran great , but had some pipe bang , only thing I didn't like . Iv had plenty of 2 strokes .