KTM TPI vs KTM TBI: The Key Differences Explained
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- KTM TPI vs KTM TBI What are the key differences between Transfer Port Injected and Throttle Body Injected on KTM cross country and enduro motorcycles?. If you're not familiar with fuel injection, it's a system that uses electronic controls to deliver fuel to the engine. Unlike traditional carburetor system, which use mechanical components. Each system has its advantages and disadvantages, so we can't say that KTM TPI is better than KTM TBI. If you want to know which KTM EXC or KTM XC-W with TPI or TBI to choose, this is the ideal video for you.
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Well said! Love my TPI. „Better“ is relative. And some guys forget that it’s about the riding not about the bike.
100% i own a tpi and told myself to stop worrying about every little thing about the bike’s motor and focus on improving my skills
Have you ridden a TBI though?
It's got to work though , carburettors are silmpe but future thanks to KTM keeping 2 stroke alive
worrying about emissions on a dirt bike is the most stupid thing ever
indeed I'll stick to PWk's and air strikers.
Yea it really is, the amount of emissions produced by dirtbikes don't even come close to even a tiny percentage of the amount of emissions made by literally every single other vehicle on the road. It's the most ridiculous thing.
Tell it to the government lawmakers.
@@ZmanAdventurez88 very true. Also every aeroplane dumping unimaginable amounts of leaded fuel emissions.
I agree... but because of emissions we now have eletric start, fuel injection 2 strokes. all of the fun with low barrier to entry for the non mechanic type.
(Im still carburetor and kick start so dont at me) but manufacturers would not have made dirt bikes heavier and more complicated if it wasn't for emissions. So weigh the pros and cons.
Really liked how non biased you were. Thanks for the info!
Everyone always forgets about TM , they have electronic power valve, different maps on different gears and TBI system for 2 years now.
I’ll go with a carb, Yamaha
I wonder if we can do both at the same time kind of like Ford in there 3.5 TwinTurbo motor
I went with TBC (Throttle Body Carburetion). I can fix or swap cars, I don't know anything about FI
tm racing was first on the market usinng tbi with electric power valve... ktm just copy this. carb is carb, simply and easy fix. who cares, how much its take fuel...
I like 2:18 :-) ….”carburator……more traction..” yes!
Carb will always be king !
I am new to Moterbikes and i was wondering do u need to premix fuel for the 2024 line up of ktm exc bikes
yes
No I have one and it has oil injection
@@MrHellgaThe XC and SX bikes still use premix but the EXC/ XCW are oil injected
Dont buy a KTM and you want have a problem!
3 minute intro on an 8min video is too long bro.
the only difference is one sukks and 1 dont..tpi is problem waiting to happen..alotta these bikes will blow up here in the next few years..the oil pump will fail
I don’t get why in the world KTM would cancel the TPI when they finally got the bugs out and starting on square one with the TBI, I feel like it’s two steps backwards going to TBI.
I really thought they would do a hybrid system like the TSP IRK or direct injection if they were gonna change anything.
They always introduce new things for the sake of sales
👏👏👏👏👏
KTM is genius for letting its customers do the R&D for tpi and tbi. It's like the customer is paying thousands of dollars to KTM to find all of the flaws in their new engines. It's a win, win situation for ktm. KTM doesn't even need to pay for a Research and development team bc of brand loyal sheep, pretty sad, actually
Thumbs down for the annoying adverts.
Get a 4-stroke and leave your ancient technology (two stroke) problems in the past people.
Why having a boring life when it can be much more fun on a 2-stroke ?
@@scannorse I'd also like to add, why watch a video about 2 strokes if he hates them ?
ride ultra tight single track much?
Love my 2021 Husky TE250i (TPI). No issues at all. Amazing bike. Maintain and just have a long warm up time. But amazing bike!
Yeah my 22 tpi has 85 hours and no problems
I also had a 2021 Husky 250i (TPI) as my first 2 stroke bike after I had many four stroke bikes.I did around 60hrs on it without any problems. I just changed the power valve adjustment for a more aggressive feel. That worked well and I liked the bike without mixing fuel all the time. Never even thought about oil pump failure.
Does anyone actually have issues with the modern oil injection? Oil injection and EFI have been pretty much standard on Snowmobiles for a quarter century and no one is out here swapping them out to carb or premix. We routinely ride them 30+ miles out into the frozen wilderness here where an engine failure is much more dangerous than the same distance along most any single track dirt bike trail
I think most people are just opposed to change and being silly about it.
^ This
Fuel injection is infinitely better and more controllable. I don't think there is a single person living who can tune a carb perfectly. I mean perfect, as in tune it. Then have an independent third party dyno the bike with an AFR sensor in the exhaust and see.
Even if a tuner got it perfect. It would be on one specific day, tempurature, altitude, barometric pressure and humidity. As soon as the sub sets that tune is invalid except on maybe 50 days a year, and only at specific times of day.
Carbs are objectively worse than EFI because EFI has an actual fuel map and is metering fuel in a continuously variable manner many times a second to maintain the precise fuel air ratio. Not to mention the spark is also controlled in the same free manner. Unlike fixed timing or simple timing advance coils.
Then you have the same tech applied to oil now also. Metering a precise amount of oil based on throttle position, fuel flow, and rpm. Or however they have it tuned. This means more oil when you need it at full power. And far leas oil at idle. Cleaning up the idle exhaust and reducing fouling of plugs, rings, etc.
It is so vastly better to control these items with a computer than guesstimate with fuel mix for the days conditions. Timing advance based on advancing base timing and hoping everything works out. And constantly swapping jets trying to optimize the fuel mix.
Dude use your speaking voice it's makes your script my credible. Using AI to write and read your script is lame.
He has poorly spoken English but this guy is very much a real person
Give it a try on an 8min voiceover. Let me know how it goes. It’s not as easy as it may seem. I day good for him for finding a way to make a video instead of it being a bottled idea.
you talk like an AI npc, but nice video.
It is an ai voice
wow, it takes two minutes in before the first difference is talked about. Then there is 3 more minutes of BS and a few other real differences at 5 minutes. This is nearly content free.
Injection not does out perform carburetion in terms of performance (output). Its maintains stoichiometric precision better. Atomization of the fuel/air is better with carbs than fuel injection. Maybe this can change with injection technology but it isn't there yet. Because it maintains Stoichiometry better it is more efficient than regular carbs, but a Smart Carb or Lectron solves this issue. A perfectly set metered carb like the two above will be more efficient and outperform injection since atomization is better. Just food for though. TBI is awesome and is closer to carburetion.
Depends on the injector design and fuel pressure. If it was so beneficial to use a carb, why did automotive companies change 30+ years ago and never go back?
Why does a carburetor have better atomization than an injector. Injectors are pretty effective at atomizing the fuel.
Carburators will often have something sticking out into the airstream... Like needles or the venturi which do act as air flow restrictions, therefore limiting power. EFI systems usually make a little more power on an otherwise identical engine. And saying that carbs atomize fuel better than even low pressure -40psi port fuel injectors is silly.
I don't want it to be a ktm... I'm disappointed the new models don't have monthly subscription heated seats with the subscription ECU degovern.
what about saddle bags and windshield?
I refuse to go back to the premix, it's a fucking nuisance before I go back to 4t... long live the tpi !!!
I like to mix fuel, it doesn't cause me a problem. But it's definitely one of a kind to ride a tpi, not needing to have oil in bag
The biggest advantage in TPI was fuel injection and low fuel consumption. But crabs makes riding more extreme because power delivery is in combination 0-1. My 2016 two stroke Husqy TE250 was consuming 11L per 100 km. It was much much more than modern TPI engine but Smart Carb or Lectron caburators are game changer. Thanks to them bike run smoother and don't waste fuel eny more. I saw many TPI users riding with pre-mixed fuel for safety. I am thinking of new enduro bike and I'm closer to buy carbed bike with smart Carb than new TBI, maybe thanks to you mate after I saw in one of your movies this Kymco parts in new KTM.
Ktm exc 300 2016 or Beta RR 300 2016
@blalbert KTM has plenty of aftermarket parts with Beta it is complicated. But Beta's are getting on popularity.
@@kicekap Why are KTM guys soooo focused on parts ? 1) Because they break more often ? 2) Because the bikes is not made ready for race directly from factory ? 3) Because KTM guys like bling more than the rest ? 4) Because spend money will make you a better driver ? 5) Or ?
@scannorse there are company's that produce skidplates, triplecalmps, pistons, engine parts and etc. for KTM but if you buy stock KTM EXC you must do some mods for serious racing. For example Beta 300 RR Steve Holcombe edition was made ready for race stock from factory and doesn't cost as much as KTM 6 days.
@@kicekap thats exactly my point….. Other brands do not need all those parts and bling to work
So, if I can buy a carbureted motorcycle, install a Smartcarb, ride it right away, AND not have to fuss with it wouldn't that be a win win win?
I think there is a place for both bikes. TPI and TBI
Switch from TPI to TBI proves that the first one was a step in the wrong direction.
I have same thinking as you have 😊
TPI hasnt been fazed out. TBI is being used on Cross Country and MX models, because those markets require a harder hitting bike. KTM has shown no signs that the TPI will be fazed out.
@@joshuavanzuydam5044 Word is the 2024 xcw 300 will have TBI. We will see in a few months.
@@joshuavanzuydam5044 I live in Australia and I'm hoping that KTM keep making the TPI and we can still buy them in Australia 🙂
I liked the info on the differences of tpi and tbi but you are wrong about ktm being the only ones pushing 2 stroke technology. Tm 2 stroke dirtbikes had electric power valve fuel injected 2 strokes years ago
and sherco were the first ones to bring out efi 4 strokes way back in 2004
Yea but they're lower number production bikes then KTM's. I wouldn't even know where to buy one near me, and unfortunately bc people don't know them, the resale value wouldn't be too great.. But yea i agree..
Easy to explain
OVERPRICED vs OVERPRICED!! #smh
If you're worrying about money you might want to find a new hobby. Try fishing.
Fishing? That can be an extremely expensive hobby
what are you talking about, I left roadracing for enduro for a reason. Love my 23 TE300 after I got it sorted out
For me TPi!
The oil pump just use motorex
Same. The oil injection is a key feature for me. I don't ever have to deal with getting the mixture right depending on if i'm riding slow low rpm technical stuff or fast wide open high rpm stuff. Also I only need one fuel can between my 2 stroke and my wifes 4 stroke. It works and I like it.
They've been using oil injection in jet skis, snowmobiles, mopeds, scooters, motorcycles, etc. for years now and they pretty much got it down. So, I think the dirt bike will be fine with the oil injection. you could add some 100:1 synthetic premix to the gas for just some extra wear protection, and to keep the gas better longer, but it's not necessary.
Why do you keep talking about fuel efficiency? Like any dirt bike rider anywhere looks at a dirt bike and looks at the MPG when considering a bike. Only honda riders look at MPG
Cuz getting stuck in the boonies isn’t fun 😅
I think efficiency is nice for enduro because you can go farther with less weight in fuel
Can’t beat my 18’ TE300. Add a lectron zero issues.
More fuel more traction...humm!! And is critical on bad wheather, bad wheather on off road bike? NEVER. I`m telling Greta
they should not remove the oil pump, they should improve it. all the 4t engines have fuel pumps, yet nobody cries like a little pussy about it
So interesting to learn.
However I raced 125cc when I was on my 20s and had a blast!
Never even imagined to get to see this bikes today.
I own a 300 tpi and the moment I start questioning little things on the bike I remember that kid that was just happy to ride and race with that technology.
I am all about progress but I a choose to live thankful for what I have and where I am. And my bike is a big part of it.
Will I get a newer bike? Totally. But not because of the new tech, but because for me it makes sense financially.
Other than that I still walk to my garage every morning and smile at my tpi.
Blessings to all.
You didn’t really explain the difference, and how the tbi is only on the xc models now not the enduro models
Bro,that wheelies.Nice video.
Garbage AI-generated content.. sigh...
Easy choose carburetor, several friends have went to Beta. I chose a carb bike then used a Electron
My husband likes his Smartcarb. Very similar to the Lectron. Metering rod and no jets
The problem is emission standards. Beta and Sherco dont sell Enough units to be constrained by emission standards for now. KTM has to adhere because of the sheer volume of bikes they sell. In the near future though, there will be no Carbs as emission standards get stricter and stricter
2018 ktm carb fed bike.
200 hrs.
Not one issue, not even a counter shaft seal.
Toilet paper injected just sounds cooler
Have you been able to work out why your new bike blew up yet?, be good to know what caused that.
my 2005 KTM300 is still going strong since new and i have never needed to touch the carby in 19years! Carby for the win!!! also saving 2.5kg :)
Sherco and Beta are much better bikes than Ktm.
They are now because they are blowing up after 60 hours
@@mdemosani kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
Which brand is blowing up after 60 hours?@@mdemosani
I love my beta 2022
How does a Yamaha WR250F compare to a Sherco or a Beta? @@sorindobria2315
I don't think I learned a darn thing..
Did KTM cure leaving 0.9 gallon in tank on 2024 300 XC ?
There is no fuel shut off valve on TBI..
Is it best to drain gas for long term storage? Or will fuel injection like dry out...
Just curious
Not true BRP has been using a fuel injected 2 smoker since the 80s in their outboard motors
he meant on dirtbikes
@@Shadow0fd3ath24 clearly but the technology isn't anything new ktm fan boys act like they made a huge step for mankind.
None of this is better than carb they just have to comply with absurd emission laws. Keep shilling for ktm I guess, sponsorship soon?
Neil Skyway
So in conclusion, TBI uses pre-mixed fuel again? Pity, I love the separate oil injection that depends on mapping.
Would be nice if they could work on error management of the oil pump and simply add an electronic throttle body to the TPI
F the EU & its emissions
I used a injection relocation kit mid compression head and ecu remap from two stroke performance for my 2022 tpi Husqvarna 300.wow best mod would highly recommend
I liked the explanation in the video. Well done! However, "fuel injection is also typically easier to maintain (than a carburetor) because it has fewer components that can wear out or require adjustment" - Dude what have you been smoking?
have a 2023 TPI TW150 and just bought a 2024 TE150 TBI no comparrison the TBI is hands down smoother, hits harder and just runs clean everywhere
Few years ago i would say go Carb all the way, but these days after years with no Carb bikes i should say they work very solid and wouldn't go back. :)
The ones i love the most i my sons 125, started -23 and this year riding the -24 and even if i must mix oil on the 125:s they work very solid and nice.
Interesting that people in a number of years could only say TPI…..with all its flaws and failures. Heck, even KTM`s own factory rider dont like it and says: Quote: " a 300 two-stroke (KTM..) - a bike which has won so many world titles in the past (Enduro GP) but a big, fat zero since things turned TPI. " …..
Now they have a system that almost feels like a carburetor…… Many steps walked to get back…
Ktm exc 300 2016 or Ktm exc 300 2022
just like those junk air forks, come on man lets get real
My 24 TE150 has been amazing and is very hard to stall, for as small the engine is
3:20 A rule that I follow when it comes to KTM....never buy anything from this company when it is the first year of its release! 😞
unless it comes with reverse and saddle bags
ktm exc 300 tpi better than ktm exc 300 tbi hard enduro/hard extrem?
Ever change a Tpi with an Injector Relocation Plate and Ecu Reflash ?
Yep, did that on my 2021 300 tpi. The Athena GET race ecu is what I bought. Made a big difference on the bottom end. Plus i could tune it with my phone and save different maps for different types of riding.
Can you leave the tbi wide open like a 4 stroke without blowing it up ?
maybe if its tuned for it from factory, but still a bad idea, same with coasting in gear and no throttle, it needs fuel for lube whether burning it to make power or not. Pull that clutch in and rev it up and down occasionally
@@Shadow0fd3ath24what If you coast holding the clutch in? Should you still blip the throttle?
I have a 2024 250 XCW and it has a rev limiter like a four stroke.
@@CineZoneYT does it have a powerband?
Terribly stretched video
Speed it up to 2x, and time will pass faster
@@TheDirtbikeRider I mean a lot of the same sentences, a lot of introductory words and all for the sake of duration? this is terrible in 2023
Ukellnim is something that will go after so long, depending on how hard they be pushed. Don't know if on these bikes but older one's are a lot better ride and feel. Different strokes for different blokes it be but I love my slim fast 2 stroke motocross bikes. They are the wildest dream bikes. Red and White you ride all night
do the job properly....DI.
Definitely do not trust those oil pumps. If I ever owned a bike with one I would delete it and run premix.
Carb for me :D
Direct injection?
TPI, LOL. Lets inject straight gas into the cylinder on every start up. What engineer was smoking what to come up with this?
I hate TPI. My 2022 KTM 300 XC TPI seized at 7.2 & 7.4 hours. Dealers and KTM could not diagnois it.
KTM put a new crate motor & oil injection pump into it after the 2nd time.
2 big thumbs up to KTM & the dealer who never gave up.
The crate motor ran so much better. Like a completely different bike. Then I converted it to TBI & 100% premix to help ensure it never seize again.
I lnow of 100's of TPI that seized in under 50 or70 hours.
You also have to adjust the "idle screw at KTM calls it" the air bypass screw. Every year of bike came with this screw set at a diiferent # of turns.
Also replacing the KTM ECU with a Coober, GETS or TwoStrokePerformance all fuel & oil better. Even KTM's sales manager said so!
Ktm... doing the lords work
KTM;s SUCK!
It would go into reverse?
Does the TBI come with reverse? I'm trading!
So, witch Ktm I should buy?😄😅 I want to buy 300exc, but witch? Thanks
Wish Yamaha would build an enduro or Suzuki again
uhhh they do.....they make the wr250 Enduro, the 125x, 250x, and 450x which are for cross country, along with the TW200, and the xt250 which are road legal enduros lol
Give me a carbed bike, with a Keihin and I’m all good. Fewer parts to go wrong. Easily worked on by most riders.
I have to disagree. There's lots of things to go wrong with carbs. Floats, needles, slides, jets, springs, accelerator pump diaframs, o-rings, gaskets. I've wasted so much riding time over the years dealing with shitty carburetors, I couldn't wait sell all my carb bikes and move to fuel injection and haven't had a problem since.
@@dracer35 funny….i have been running carb bikes in almost 60 years now, never had a carb failure. Jetting of course, but no failures. Been running fuel injected bikes for 3 years besides my carb bikes, had several sensors/injectors failures….not speaking about ecu upgrades
@@scannorse Just goes to show, nothing is perfect. Guess we can all just ride what we like and call it a day.
@@dracer35 Never heard of such sillyness. Carbs do not have lot's of things that can go wrong lol.
@@jaybray4901 I spelled it out pretty clearly in case you didn't read it. I work in a motorcycle shop. We constantly have bikes in getting the carbs worked on daily. Fuel injection systems issues is very rare at about 1 FI problem per every 100 carb issues we fix.
So enduros don’t even have tbi?
The only enduro bikes with TBI are the TM Racing, they started to put the tech into work in their 2022 enduro models. They even started to use TPI before KTM.
but they have reverse and can parallel park themselves
What is better TBI or TPI?
its really hard to say, but i suggest TBI, but wait one year more to see if they will have issues
@@TheDirtbikeRider okey thanks
Neither! stay away DANGER DANGER!
My carb bike always uses less fuel that the tpi lads
It is possible, but in extreme terrain, the carburetor spills a lot if you fall
Create a trap by looping the overflow hose above the top of the float bowl and back down. I consistently have more fuel left over than tpi’s. Extreme, hare scrambles any riding any terrain doesn’t matter. Keihin 36 and Beta forever.
I bet that comes from the better throttle response of fuel injection so the engine can spool up quicker and use more gas
I bet i work on my Carb bike less than 4T, TBI and TPI dudes!
1:13 Fuel Injection is easier to maintain? That pretty much ignores the sensor and pump failures that never happen on a carbureted bike or the many trouble free decades old bikes that are our there ripping right now.
@OldDirtGuy yep! and those sensors cost £100 each in England while the throttle position sensor is £260
@@danhopkinson2811a few hundred dollars of mantinence after a few years on a thirteen thousand dollar bike should not be a big deal
Wishing ktm would make a big open class TPI monster with double the hp 2-stroke with a Street legal kit. Absolutely I'd buy one. 57hp on 300cc Idk. I'm leaning tword the maico 700 2-stroke. 100hrs? That's 2 weeks of riding maybe...
Its a tough choice the factory tbi with electric power valve is definitely better preforming stock. Unfortunately you can't add a kick starter to the factory tbi bikes so I will probably go tpi and relocate the injectors to the throttle body, delete the oil pump and add a kick starter because I do 100 plus mile rides in the back country
No need for a kickstarter. As long as you ride enough to keep the battery charged you will be fine.
i dunno i dont really like electric power valves really havent heard that much good about their long term reliability
Nice. Just got a 22 te300i tpi. Very curious the differences.
Thank you!
Just for clarification, on tbi you cannot use engine brake on downhills due to not enough gas mixture in crank case. On tpi the oil was injected even if throttle was closed. Or?
Engine breaking has nothing to do with the fuel in the mixture. It has to do with the air.
@@SysAdmin86K5 the engine braking is made by compression. The issue on carb 2strokes and think also on TBI is that engine brake is used for long time, it will wear very fast because of high rpm and no mixture present. The TPI had the oil injected directly into crankcase without the need to have the throttle opened.
@@2WheelDernessCarbs still let atomized mixed air in even when the throttle is closed via the pilot jet. Still getting some oil to the crank and cylinder. I understand that there is a small decrease in lubrication but its not a significant amount and is doesn't change the characteristics of engine breaking. The decrease is even probably a proportional derivative of the decrease in heat due to the lack of ignition on engine breaking.
@@SysAdmin86K5 this is new info for me, thanks. The issue I had was that I put a new top end - bottom end checked and was ok. After ~ 10 hrs in the woods ( not agressive driving, just not pulling the clutch on small descends where engine brake was enough) the bottom was starting lots of noise. Pulled engine appart again, was very dry and rod bearings was bad. I used 50:1 synthetic mix. Maybe also I was a little lean but I barely used the throttle in the beginning, no crazy climbs, etc. So this was my logic... but thanks for explaining
you sure about that buddy oh pal?
there is no choice between the two though. if you ride enduro and own an exc currently its not like you have an option to choose tpi or tbi.
as only the MX bikes are currently running the TBI system
One thing no one mentions is that the TPI bikes are tamed down due to the mapping that is required to pass euro emissions. I have a derestricted race map on my 21 250 XC TPI with a head and it absolutely rips and out pulls a TBI from bottom to top. KTM no longer supplies derestricted race maps so you must get reflashed by a tuner
Aren't these the bikes known to grenade ?
The Head usually bumps compression
And the EFI mods ignition and fuel riding the ragged edge of lean / detonation if it's not tuned slightly conservative boom 🤷
Compounded by offshoring (India/ china) engine parts I don't know how I feel about KTM's