The Rotax ETECH easily exceeded the very stringent EPA rules for off road engines. It was also more fuel efficient than similar power four strokes AND a lot less weight. 160bhp from 800cc.
On the point about injector wear, simply dose the fuel with a little two stroke oil (far less that needed for engine lube). It will be fully burnt in the cylinder so wont be polluting and these engines have a catalyst anyway.
hello, for direct injection to work on motorcycles it must go with an external compressor or a turbo so that it does not combine with the oil and is lubricated like a 4-stroke
Aprilia Ditech and Piaggio Pure jet 50 cc models worked pretty well, but they discontinued mass production after 5-6 years. There were some technical issues that required more development (more money) and, in fact, it was still possible to meet euro II requirements with carburetor in 2005. Later on the 50 cc market collapsed and for bigger engines every one decided to use four strokes...
I have one use the same system as Aprilia Ditech, the high pressure injection and fuel pump are problematic. They use an air pump to drive the injector and it dies after several months and not serviceable. The fuel pump is another pain in the ass,a not serviceable,expensive,short lived junk. I can see why companies stop making them anymore.
I'd say the main problem with the Ditech launch was a lack of documentation and information to the consumers/resellers/workshops on how to address and repair common issues (such as electrical issues). As a results, lots of resellers and importers were stuck with high expenses because of warranty claims, as well as it getting a bad rep for being very problematic and expensive to repair once for example electrical issues occured. Very italian, in other words - great high performance products, but totally incompetent customer service, communications and life-cycle management. Very sad, as it was an otherwise superior product far ahead of its time. Far better fuel economy and a lot less smog because of the reduction in oil consumption, as well as better performance and no clogging carburetors. Based on the ORBITAL engine, btw.
@@smbsmb174 It is possible to fix the fuel pump. Search around and you'll find. You can also buy a reenforced crank for the fuel pump which corrects that point of failure. The second common point of failure is the fuel pressure regulator, which is possible to replace at a reasonable price because it's a pressure regulator commonly found in other veicles. The fuel pump on the other hand, is worth its weight in gold because it's specific to the Ditech and no other pump will work. (so check out the info on repairing it which i spoke about above). The reason for high prices for new parts in the injection system is that it is specific to the ditech engine, which is out of production a long time ago.
Detroit diesel has been doing it this way for decades, they use mechanical injection. I've always wondered why this approach was not used on gas motors.
Detroit Diesel’s maximum RPM of 2100 may have something to do with it. Running slower gives the injector more time to spray. DDs have unit injectors, eg they have cam actuated pumps at each cylinder. You can still buy a DD 2 stroke engine, but DD went to 4 stroke years ago. DDs 2 strokes were more complicated than a competitive 4 stroke, a little less fuel efficient, and a bit more green challenged. But they were smaller and lighter. DDs sister company, Electromotive Diesel, still makes very good 2 stroke locomotive engines. Rotax ETec certainly proves direct injection 2strokes are spectacular engines. Their tech uses sonics to atomize the fuel rather than pressure. Interesting the largest (ship diesels) and smallest engines (RC planes, Cox, etc) are 2 stroke. Cheers
There are still some very good 2 stroke bikes being made and the technology has definitely not stopped. CCM have a 250cc bike that will embarrass even 600 and 1000 superbikes. Shame it's so pricey.
BRP/skidoo has done great things with the direct/voice coil injection my 2009 600 skidoo efi makes 20+ mile per gallon at Cruze speed and still makes 125 hp full throttle
First from 1988 the problem was that computer was so slow they must correct every next fuel after how the one before was burned. My 20 years old Mercury racing have just this technique and with a compressor.
Ford Ka was supposed to have a stratified charge two stroke engine, but they ran into snags with the regulators. At the last minute management caved and used an elderly four stroke.
hola , para que funcione la inyección directa en motos debe ir con un compresor externo o un turbo para que no se combine con el aceite y se lubrique como un 4 tiempos ,
I love the video. Great work ! But I am still confused why it is not used more often. Aprilia back in 2001 or so made this direct injection and it was very fuel efficient. Any problems with NOX or CO or other toxic gases at the exhaust?
As the video said, the manufacturing cost defeats the purpose of the 2 stroke's supposed simplicity. It'd be better for manufacturers to just increase the number of cylinders and make it 4 stroke. Also, it still burns lubricating oil, which is the main issue with two stroke engines rather than the escaping air fuel mixture, which was solved with the power valve system long time ago
I think you may want add that the rotax brp images that your using are in production and are used across the globe in snowmobiles as for there emission levels they are very comparable to four stroke technology. They are at there heart exhaust trapping very high pressure direct injection two stroke engines, but sound very little like there older or low pressure counterparts. They are very fuel and oil efficient and preform well with smooth linear power . No the two stoke is not dead , with innovative companies like brp ,rotax ( Johnson/ evinrude went bankrupt developing this teck ) it has a future
KTM has been already using the lightweight and cost effective TPI method for years. Besides, the fuel efficiency and emissions wasn't ever the concern of industrial saboteurs and actual consumers, it's longevity. The scavenging ought to be done by other means than the crankcase so it can have an oil sump, which there are many ways to do so, but even the Detroit Diesel uniflow wasn't able to prevent excess oil from getting into the ports.
I love how you speak about these engines having the possibility of passing euro6 Emission Regulations, as an ex manager from a well known aftermarket exhaust manufacture and dealt heavily with the euro6 Emissions regulations, the single issue with 2-stroke engines which you completely gloss over in your video, is the oil in the air stream which is what causes the heavy pollutants and stopped 2-stroke production, it doesn't matter whether you direct inject or not, it may help sure, but it will never get past emissions regulation because of that oil in the air stream, which gets partially burned, bonds broken during combustion. so although I see your hope for something as simple as Direct Injection being the all important saviour of the 2-stroke, its just not even close. Also statements made by the governing bodies of both Formula 1 and MotoGP which you referenced maybe going back to 2-stroke, both have made it clear that 2 stroke technology will NOT be incorporated into their future, these industries don't care about technical challenges or cost, they care about what wins, and at the end of the day, that isn't 2-stroke, never will be, otherwise they would still be using them, 2 strokes phased out of motorsport long before emissions became an issue. As a quick end to this comment, this video also doesn't take into account noise polluation and other factors within the regulations you stated.
What are you talking about? 2 strokes win in racing if they are allowed the same swept volume... They aren't allowed for other reasons, such as road relevance for manufacturers that bring lots of money to each sport.
@@alexjohnward teams don't care about road relevancy, they care about results, if 2 strokes was superior, they would still be using them. and talking about same volume, you need to consider combustion volume events. saying if they are allowed the same swept volume is the same argument as why don't we just put turbine jets on everything. also rotary engines are also a good example of an effective 2 stroke cycle, yet same displacement motorcycle engines running a 4 stroke cycle still produce the same power, with lesser fuel burn and noise pollution, as well as less general air pollutants. the transition to 4 stroke happened for many reasons, but practically it happened from 4 strokes being more efficient and practical from every angle. only cost and complexity are their downfall, which as mentioned, teams in motorsport don't care about cost or complexity, they care about results. Simple matter of fact is this is all that matters, as that's what brings the dollar to teams. they don't care if its 2 stroke, 4 stroke, N/A, Turbo, S/C. results speak for themselves, and to end the argument before it starts about 20 years ago 2 strokes was on par or winning against 4 strokes, they also had a significant advantage in time under development then what 4 strokes are. from a guy with experience in the industry and qualified, argue as much as you wish, but results and where we came to now are from improvements, people claiming the supreme 2 stroke awesomeness are a by gone age of people who can't see the times changed for a reason, but they are to fan boy to realise.
@@josephharkin656 no 500cc 4 stroke ever came near a 500cc 2 stroke in the day. F1 and Moto GP teams are dominated by manufacturers, they demand road relevance to be enforced by the rules, because they couldn't even compete using an internal combustion system if it were a free for all.
Almost all of the previous examples people have mention in the comments, e.g. Aprilia, Piaggio, Mercury, Seadoo direct injected engines we licensed from the Orbital Engine Company in Perth Australia (Now Orbital Corp).
For all my fellow 2 stroke nerds out there here is a tiny fun theory, that engine in the digital rendering with the gold barrel and head appears to be a very similar copy of the kawasaki krr150 or zx150 or ninja 150rr, super kips from Thailand. Great bikes, I have had 2 or 3 of them and would buy another if I had the chance. Also closely related to the kg150
Wirh the same ammount of development resources, the 2 Stroke has the ability break the whole exhaust-gas restrictions with less fuel consumption. Very good book to read: "stolen speed" by Max Oxley
Old news iam a 2stroke fan but Mercury did this on there outboards more than 15 years ago ! The optimax series even had an compressor wich mixed high pressure air with the fuel for better atomisation but eventually they went with 4stroke because of even more strickt emission regulations
I am glad there is a way to save these legendary machines because I actually love 2 stroke engines since they make more power even though they pollute more without this injection stuff.
@@Corteum I actually don't have my own dirt bike but that sounds really good. Initially I was going with the Yamaha YZ125 since I was convinced to get that but I could also get one of them for less pollution I think if I had the money to.
The 2 stroke has a simple lubrication system. The owner doesn't just buy gas at a gas station. lubricating oil is mixed in with the gasoline. When the piston is going up it creates a partial vacuum. This sucks the fuel and oil into the cylinder, the oil winds up on the parts that need lubrication. If fuel is injected into the space above the piston, the oil mixed in with it won't reach all the parts that need lubrication. Such an engine will wear out very quickly. The Kawasaki 3 cylinder 750cc 2 stroke was the fastest bike on the market, but it consumed an enormous amount of gasoline and oil.
Very informative and well crafted video. A couple of things that were not mentioned. A four strokes piston has almost a full rotation to cool down. A two strokes piston doesn't have that luxury. Fuel has cooling properties. So the major downside of DI two strokes is that it will always be more vulnerable to heat. On the upside, DI almost solves all problems that come with the two strokes concept. On a four strokes, DI is more of a downside to me overall.
The problem was and continues to be the oil mixing with the air/fuel mixture. The biggest problem with pollution on 2 strokes now is still that and not the fuel escaping through the exhaust port
Forget the 2 stroke, what we need is a 6 stroke! This is like a 4 stroke but after the exhaust gas is pumped out, in strokes #5 and #6 water is sprayed into the hot cylinder. It turns into steam which pushes down the piston. I am not joking.
i think a lot of outboard manufacturers used direct injection on their 2 strokes before going fully 4 stroke or in evinrude's case stopped producing engines
he only way to make a two-stroke engine efficient is to have a round crankshaft as large as possible long connecting rod piston that almost touches the crankshaft 0.30 mm then you get maximum air fuel that is compressed in the crankcase up in the overflows above piston up in the top of compression explosion with three to 5 sparks per revolution this sends exhaust gases out into the expansion chamber which sends them back into the cylinder burning everything effectively it does it at the speed of sound
I would love to see a 2 stroke 250 and 500 classes added to moto gp again. Hopefully it bring 2 strokes back to the streets. I sure love my Suzuki T500.
I think it’s a marvelous idea. I’m also thinking of a double speed exhaust cam with the Honda style two profile ramps for high speed and higher speed, allowing a low speed port . Intake could use Vanos /Phasers or just free valve it
Many snowmobiles still use two Cycle engines. With efi, case reed induction, guillotine exhaust valves, modern premium synthetic two cycle oils and lean burn technology they are much cleaner burning, are reliable and produce tremendous power to weight ratios compared to four cycle engines!
There hasn't been much advancement in motorcycle 2 stroke tech in the last 15 years or so. All that sweet racing base R&D, but even with missing all that R&D, the power to weight ratio is 2nd to none.
I always thought that two strokes and turbos were made for each other. With the addition of some air into the exhaust, and maybe even a catalytic converter, the excess mix would be burned in the exhaust, and provide extra push for the turbo charger
I've been thinking about doing this ever since i saw a two stroke diesel engine. I don't see why this wouldn't be reliable if they have been putting the diesel variant in school buses for years.
Hi I can see that a high pressure fuel injection system potentially part of a stratified charge system will be good for emissions reduction but it will still need an oxygen sensor for closed loop control and a catalyst to control emissions to the current regulations and fitting a cat will ruin a 2 strokes power delivery as the live and die by the exhaust system 1 expansion chamber per cylinder then no matter how well controlled the lube system is as long as the lube system is total loss for the main bearings big ad little ends and piston an bore it will still be excessive compared to a modern 4 stroke which will make emissions control a step harder. In my opinion the only way is to make it mor complicated like the detroit diesels so as to abandon loop scavenging and even they had to be phased out for emissions compliance and that was with the GM dollar behind them Good luck hope I'm wrong Keep on trying
The 2-stroke engine with electronic fuel injection will not be able to work well because the crankshaft and piston are not lubricated. In case lubricating oil is introduced, it will be extremely polluting to the air. Let's use bicycle for a better inviroment.
a 2 stroke will never be as green as a 4 stroke because still burns oil so the main reason is not cost because the benefits still are better than the drawbacks
Whel there is a very big economie pro about 2strokes les moving parts les friction les wait and you need les cc for the same power but they need to find a way to have a whet crankcase and for the induction they need to use a compressor or supper charger
I would love to see the two stroke make a return - HOWEVER - the powers-that-shouldn't-be have declared electric vehicles to be our future... so the much sought after two stroke revival won't happen..
Direct injected 2T aren't something new, Rotax, Piaggio and a lot of others. But! The major problem is the time-frame to inject at a several speed/revolution. And still until now there is no injector who is fast enough. That's it 😉
@@leerjet18 . Please . Don't come here as an " All Electric " proponent/apologist . That is a VERY likely to fail concept . It's False Environmentalism , that is also totally lacking infrastructure . Just the latest NIMBY/Wokeist Trendy bandwagon . Don't misunderstand , Electric Vehicles do have their place and uses that WILL be beneficial . But universal , mandatory implementation ? Sheer HOKUM .
Ok i make a crowd fundet development, if ur an engenir machinist or 2 stroke tuner pleas join, We NEED to be faster than bmw, WE DONT WANT A BMW 2 Stroke
The lubricant doesn’t have to be in the fuel (that is just an easy way to do it), but can be more directly fed to where required. This massively reduces the amount of oil required
2 stroke engines sound stupid. I think this is because when the piston goes down the exhaust port suddenly opens, whereas with a 4 stroke the exhaust valve opens gradually. This could be fixed by giving a 2 stroke an exhaust port with a triangular shape. First the piston would clear the tip of the triangle, allowing a narrow passage for axhaust gases. When it goes further down the opening gets wider. There you are, gradual release of exhaust gas, just as in a 4 stroke.
THIS IS SHIT, I see one fatal flaw, the crank and the conrod is lubricated by the fuel that has the oil in it, if you spray the fuel inside the chamber, how will be the cank lubricated if the fuel is not going around it, so you can just fill the crankcase with the oil, but this will not precompres the airfuel mixture before it goes to the burning chamber. I think that this is a problem that you forgot to adress.
Come on, 2 stroke is dead. I am a2 stroke fanboy, but even internal combustion engines will dissapear in the near future on bikes an cars. Two stroke burns oil, therefore it will never be close to 4 stroke in terms of exhaust gases !
Well with direct injection, you don’t need to have two stroke oil…….. think about it. You don’t need to have fuel hitting the crank case anymore, how ever you do need to find a way to get air in it. I’m thinking a air pump that can run off the crank that can push in to the injector as well as fuel. Then all you need is the exhaust port.
2stroke has too many problems to make come back.. 1. Durability of 2t is at best 50% of comparable 4t. 2. Direct injection will not solve the burning oil by design of 2t. 3.My 2stroke Kawasaki 1cylinder consume almost as much as my 4cyl Kawasaki but 2 times bigger and twice as powerful 4. Maintenance of 2t is 3times more intensive 🤷♂️ I love to ride 2stroke (as i mentioned i have 150cc Ninja RR and its pure joy to ride 35 hp at 124kg ) but 4stroke is better cause its maintenance free for 50-60k km and its min. cause i own 105000km scooter its f*cked but there is no way that any 2t bike could last 1/3 of that!!! Bottom line get2stroke but get ready for heavy expanses🙏
The Rotax ETECH easily exceeded the very stringent EPA rules for off road engines. It was also more fuel efficient than similar power four strokes AND a lot less weight. 160bhp from 800cc.
On the point about injector wear, simply dose the fuel with a little two stroke oil (far less that needed for engine lube). It will be fully burnt in the cylinder so wont be polluting and these engines have a catalyst anyway.
Never understood why we just let rules being applied and never say a thing
hello, for direct injection to work on motorcycles it must go with an external compressor or a turbo so that it does not combine with the oil and is lubricated like a 4-stroke
Or some sorta separator filter can be used on the last stage of intake to pull out the oil
And be able to reuse it
Does KTM have this on their latest 300 2-stroke mx bike?
I have a better ideal use diesel as autolube it would make the vehicle bifuel
@@Corteum ktm uses throttle port injection on the trail bikes, throttle body injection on the mx bikes. neither are direct injected
Aprilia Ditech and Piaggio Pure jet 50 cc models worked pretty well, but they discontinued mass production after 5-6 years. There were some technical issues that required more development (more money) and, in fact, it was still possible to meet euro II requirements with carburetor in 2005. Later on the 50 cc market collapsed and for bigger engines every one decided to use four strokes...
Google OPOC engine from general Motors that is the future of 2 stroke.
@@pascalvanschijndel501 8-10 years ago was the future, with Bill Gates investing in the development. Any result from there?
I have one use the same system as Aprilia Ditech, the high pressure injection and fuel pump are problematic. They use an air pump to drive the injector and it dies after several months and not serviceable. The fuel pump is another pain in the ass,a not serviceable,expensive,short lived junk. I can see why companies stop making them anymore.
I'd say the main problem with the Ditech launch was a lack of documentation and information to the consumers/resellers/workshops on how to address and repair common issues (such as electrical issues). As a results, lots of resellers and importers were stuck with high expenses because of warranty claims, as well as it getting a bad rep for being very problematic and expensive to repair once for example electrical issues occured.
Very italian, in other words - great high performance products, but totally incompetent customer service, communications and life-cycle management.
Very sad, as it was an otherwise superior product far ahead of its time. Far better fuel economy and a lot less smog because of the reduction in oil consumption, as well as better performance and no clogging carburetors. Based on the ORBITAL engine, btw.
@@smbsmb174 It is possible to fix the fuel pump. Search around and you'll find. You can also buy a reenforced crank for the fuel pump which corrects that point of failure. The second common point of failure is the fuel pressure regulator, which is possible to replace at a reasonable price because it's a pressure regulator commonly found in other veicles. The fuel pump on the other hand, is worth its weight in gold because it's specific to the Ditech and no other pump will work. (so check out the info on repairing it which i spoke about above).
The reason for high prices for new parts in the injection system is that it is specific to the ditech engine, which is out of production a long time ago.
Detroit diesel has been doing it this way for decades, they use mechanical injection. I've always wondered why this approach was not used on gas motors.
On my old yacht I have two Detroit Diesel engines in use. I run them between 900 and 1600 rpm.
Detroit Diesel’s maximum RPM of 2100 may have something to do with it. Running slower gives the injector more time to spray. DDs have unit injectors, eg they have cam actuated pumps at each cylinder.
You can still buy a DD 2 stroke engine, but DD went to 4 stroke years ago. DDs 2 strokes were more complicated than a competitive 4 stroke, a little less fuel efficient, and a bit more green challenged. But they were smaller and lighter.
DDs sister company, Electromotive Diesel, still makes very good 2 stroke locomotive engines.
Rotax ETec certainly proves direct injection 2strokes are spectacular engines. Their tech uses sonics to atomize the fuel rather than pressure.
Interesting the largest (ship diesels) and smallest engines (RC planes, Cox, etc) are 2 stroke. Cheers
DD use supercharger instead of Crankshaft pump
Bring them back. If they would have kept developing the 2 stroke engine they'd be some amazing engines out there by now.
There are still some very good 2 stroke bikes being made and the technology has definitely not stopped.
CCM have a 250cc bike that will embarrass even 600 and 1000 superbikes. Shame it's so pricey.
😊,❤❤❤, New two strok era starting
BRP/skidoo has done great things with the direct/voice coil injection my 2009 600 skidoo efi makes 20+ mile per gallon at Cruze speed and still makes 125 hp full throttle
Skidoo has been doing this for over 10 years now on their snowmobiles. Perhaps there's some patents in the way of other companies following suit.
First from 1988 the problem was that computer was so slow they must correct every next fuel after how the one before was burned. My 20 years old Mercury racing have just this technique and with a compressor.
Ford Ka was supposed to have a stratified charge two stroke engine, but they ran into snags with the regulators. At the last minute management caved and used an elderly four stroke.
hola , para que funcione la inyección directa en motos debe ir con un compresor externo o un turbo para que no se combine con el aceite y se lubrique como un 4 tiempos ,
I love the video. Great work !
But I am still confused why it is not used more often. Aprilia back in 2001 or so made this direct injection and it was very fuel efficient.
Any problems with NOX or CO or other toxic gases at the exhaust?
As the video said, the manufacturing cost defeats the purpose of the 2 stroke's supposed simplicity. It'd be better for manufacturers to just increase the number of cylinders and make it 4 stroke. Also, it still burns lubricating oil, which is the main issue with two stroke engines rather than the escaping air fuel mixture, which was solved with the power valve system long time ago
I think you may want add that the rotax brp images that your using are in production and are used across the globe in snowmobiles as for there emission levels they are very comparable to four stroke technology. They are at there heart exhaust trapping very high pressure direct injection two stroke engines, but sound very little like there older or low pressure counterparts. They are very fuel and oil efficient and preform well with smooth linear power .
No the two stoke is not dead , with innovative companies like brp ,rotax ( Johnson/ evinrude went bankrupt developing this teck ) it has a future
KTM has been already using the lightweight and cost effective TPI method for years. Besides, the fuel efficiency and emissions wasn't ever the concern of industrial saboteurs and actual consumers, it's longevity. The scavenging ought to be done by other means than the crankcase so it can have an oil sump, which there are many ways to do so, but even the Detroit Diesel uniflow wasn't able to prevent excess oil from getting into the ports.
I love how you speak about these engines having the possibility of passing euro6 Emission Regulations, as an ex manager from a well known aftermarket exhaust manufacture and dealt heavily with the euro6 Emissions regulations, the single issue with 2-stroke engines which you completely gloss over in your video, is the oil in the air stream which is what causes the heavy pollutants and stopped 2-stroke production, it doesn't matter whether you direct inject or not, it may help sure, but it will never get past emissions regulation because of that oil in the air stream, which gets partially burned, bonds broken during combustion. so although I see your hope for something as simple as Direct Injection being the all important saviour of the 2-stroke, its just not even close.
Also statements made by the governing bodies of both Formula 1 and MotoGP which you referenced maybe going back to 2-stroke, both have made it clear that 2 stroke technology will NOT be incorporated into their future, these industries don't care about technical challenges or cost, they care about what wins, and at the end of the day, that isn't 2-stroke, never will be, otherwise they would still be using them, 2 strokes phased out of motorsport long before emissions became an issue.
As a quick end to this comment, this video also doesn't take into account noise polluation and other factors within the regulations you stated.
What are you talking about? 2 strokes win in racing if they are allowed the same swept volume... They aren't allowed for other reasons, such as road relevance for manufacturers that bring lots of money to each sport.
@@alexjohnward teams don't care about road relevancy, they care about results, if 2 strokes was superior, they would still be using them. and talking about same volume, you need to consider combustion volume events. saying if they are allowed the same swept volume is the same argument as why don't we just put turbine jets on everything. also rotary engines are also a good example of an effective 2 stroke cycle, yet same displacement motorcycle engines running a 4 stroke cycle still produce the same power, with lesser fuel burn and noise pollution, as well as less general air pollutants. the transition to 4 stroke happened for many reasons, but practically it happened from 4 strokes being more efficient and practical from every angle. only cost and complexity are their downfall, which as mentioned, teams in motorsport don't care about cost or complexity, they care about results.
Simple matter of fact is this is all that matters, as that's what brings the dollar to teams. they don't care if its 2 stroke, 4 stroke, N/A, Turbo, S/C. results speak for themselves, and to end the argument before it starts about 20 years ago 2 strokes was on par or winning against 4 strokes, they also had a significant advantage in time under development then what 4 strokes are.
from a guy with experience in the industry and qualified, argue as much as you wish, but results and where we came to now are from improvements, people claiming the supreme 2 stroke awesomeness are a by gone age of people who can't see the times changed for a reason, but they are to fan boy to realise.
@@josephharkin656 no 500cc 4 stroke ever came near a 500cc 2 stroke in the day. F1 and Moto GP teams are dominated by manufacturers, they demand road relevance to be enforced by the rules, because they couldn't even compete using an internal combustion system if it were a free for all.
This system has been developed by Johnson Evinrude many years ago. But the most of competitor converted in 4strokes the marine motors.
Ruang bilas diisi oil, direct injeksi di kubah silinder sebagai pengkabut gasoline murni, jadi oli yg terbakar tidak terlalu banyak
Almost all of the previous examples people have mention in the comments, e.g. Aprilia, Piaggio, Mercury, Seadoo direct injected engines we licensed from the Orbital Engine Company in Perth Australia (Now Orbital Corp).
Very true indeed👏👏
For all my fellow 2 stroke nerds out there here is a tiny fun theory, that engine in the digital rendering with the gold barrel and head appears to be a very similar copy of the kawasaki krr150 or zx150 or ninja 150rr, super kips from Thailand. Great bikes, I have had 2 or 3 of them and would buy another if I had the chance.
Also closely related to the kg150
Wirh the same ammount of development resources, the 2 Stroke has the ability break the whole exhaust-gas restrictions with less fuel consumption. Very good book to read: "stolen speed" by Max Oxley
Old news iam a 2stroke fan but Mercury did this on there outboards more than 15 years ago ! The optimax series even had an compressor wich mixed high pressure air with the fuel for better atomisation but eventually they went with 4stroke because of even more strickt emission regulations
I am glad there is a way to save these legendary machines because I actually love 2 stroke engines since they make more power even though they pollute more without this injection stuff.
What do you think of KTM's newer 2-strokes with EFI? Power output of a stock 150cc 2-stroke is greater than their stock 250F 4-stroke!
@@Corteum I actually don't have my own dirt bike but that sounds really good. Initially I was going with the Yamaha YZ125 since I was convinced to get that but I could also get one of them for less pollution I think if I had the money to.
The transfer port injection setup currently fitted to some KTM and Husqvarna engines has shown better results than direct injection
Its unnecessary for intake to go trough crank case, they should just make it same as diesel 2 stroke and use a blower for scavaging.
Well that depends on the engine size. For big engines, yes totally. But for small engines, crankcase provides an easy way to compress air.
The 2 stroke has a simple lubrication system. The owner doesn't just buy gas at a gas station. lubricating oil is mixed in with the gasoline. When the piston is going up it creates a partial vacuum. This sucks the fuel and oil into the cylinder, the oil winds up on the parts that need lubrication.
If fuel is injected into the space above the piston, the oil mixed in with it won't reach all the parts that need lubrication.
Such an engine will wear out very quickly. The Kawasaki 3 cylinder 750cc 2 stroke was the fastest bike on the market, but it consumed an enormous amount of gasoline and oil.
2 strokes lighter and faster than 4 strokes. Perfect race and sport bikes
Can an existing fuel injection system cope with the fueling requirement of a high RPM two stoke engine?
Easily .
Even the 2000's V10 f1 engines then revving equally or near 20,000rpm can do it
ua-cam.com/video/9kX8asluuNg/v-deo.html
Imo its needs to have a 4 stroke style crankcase so that the oil does not get burned.
Oil does get burned, but minimal, oil is injected directly onto the crankshaft...
See 2t diesel engines. You need compressor to forced air into the cylinder to remove burned fuel
@@przemq4952 Aprilias and Peugeots had air compressor pumping aprox. 5.5 bar
@@przemq4952 yes exactly, that kind of engine you mention is widely use in naval area
@@przemq4952 Like Mercury outboards.
Very informative and well crafted video. A couple of things that were not mentioned.
A four strokes piston has almost a full rotation to cool down. A two strokes piston doesn't have that luxury. Fuel has cooling properties. So the major downside of DI two strokes is that it will always be more vulnerable to heat. On the upside, DI almost solves all problems that come with the two strokes concept.
On a four strokes, DI is more of a downside to me overall.
Bring 2 strokes back, love them.
The problem was and continues to be the oil mixing with the air/fuel mixture. The biggest problem with pollution on 2 strokes now is still that and not the fuel escaping through the exhaust port
Forget the 2 stroke, what we need is a 6 stroke! This is like a 4 stroke but after the exhaust gas is pumped out, in strokes #5 and #6 water is sprayed into the hot cylinder. It turns into steam which pushes down the piston.
I am not joking.
in my opinion i dont think 2 strokes will come back till it has a sealed crankcase and a blower like old 2 stroke Detroit diesel
Some snowmobiles uses it today. Yes they are expensive but gives great power to weight.
Excellent range extender!
Rotax have made direct injection 2 stroke engines many years now, also Evinrude outboards.
E-tec engines.
Direct injection technology exists about 20 years ago on outboard engines.The same period most motorcycle manufactures said the 2 stroke are dead
Direct injection 2 stokes have been a thing for a very long time. At least it has in the diesil world.
i think a lot of outboard manufacturers used direct injection on their 2 strokes before going fully 4 stroke or in evinrude's case stopped producing engines
I wish there was an inline 4 2 stroke bike for sale. It would be amazing if they were able to do it.
he only way to make a two-stroke engine efficient is to have a round crankshaft as large as possible long connecting rod piston that almost touches the crankshaft 0.30 mm then you get maximum air fuel that is compressed in the crankcase up in the overflows above piston up in the top of compression explosion with three to 5 sparks per revolution this sends exhaust gases out into the expansion chamber which sends them back into the cylinder burning everything effectively it does it at the speed of sound
I would love to see a 2 stroke 250 and 500 classes added to moto gp again. Hopefully it bring 2 strokes back to the streets. I sure love my Suzuki T500.
I think it’s a marvelous idea. I’m also thinking of a double speed exhaust cam with the Honda style two profile ramps for high speed and higher speed, allowing a low speed port . Intake could use Vanos /Phasers or just free valve it
WHAT VALVES ? Piston Ported TWO-STROKE . A Reed Valve in the Induction Port is all that's needed , perhaps . And not essential either .
Many snowmobiles still use two Cycle engines. With efi, case reed induction, guillotine exhaust valves, modern premium synthetic two cycle oils and lean burn technology they are much cleaner burning, are reliable and produce tremendous power to weight ratios compared to four cycle engines!
@@oneninerniner3427 . Yes , the Bombardiers .
They do Quads as well I believe .
There hasn't been much advancement in motorcycle 2 stroke tech in the last 15 years or so. All that sweet racing base R&D, but even with missing all that R&D, the power to weight ratio is 2nd to none.
Freevalve might make this possible
I think brand like Ducati can produce flagship 2 stroke bike since it's already an expensive technology.
Also the snowmobile manufactor lynx also have direct injection 2stroke engine
Have you heard about the old E-tech?
Snowmobile technology!
I always thought that two strokes and turbos were made for each other. With the addition of some air into the exhaust, and maybe even a catalytic converter, the excess mix would be burned in the exhaust, and provide extra push for the turbo charger
A turbocharger will only work with a recirculation oiling system, which is usually unavailable on 2-stroke engines.
@@zOiNhUh seems like an oil cooler along with a tail pipe turbo style oil pump would work.
Is the 2-stroke representation shown running backwards?
Langen have a limited production 250 2 stroke which gets through Euro 5 emissions regulations
Vespas are still some expensive, so they can return, be fashionistic again, and be of interest to petrolheads❤
I've been thinking about doing this ever since i saw a two stroke diesel engine. I don't see why this wouldn't be reliable if they have been putting the diesel variant in school buses for years.
Not to mention diesel locomotives and ships. Just the ship engines are bigger than diesel locomotives!
they will be found in a lot of museums soon ???
This technology is at least 25 years old as my outboard marine engine DFI Otimax engine from mercury.
The "2 strokes never die!!!!" line is so ironic given as to how fragile they are, have fun replacing it every 10 miles XDDDDDD
The oil must be kept in the crankcase so lt is not burned with the fuel charge and go out the exhaust port which is very dirty.
Hi
I can see that a high pressure fuel injection system potentially part of a stratified charge system will be good for emissions reduction but it will still need an oxygen sensor for closed loop control and a catalyst to control emissions to the current regulations and fitting a cat will ruin a 2 strokes power delivery as the live and die by the exhaust system 1 expansion chamber per cylinder then no matter how well controlled the lube system is as long as the lube system is total loss for the main bearings big ad little ends and piston an bore it will still be excessive compared to a modern 4 stroke which will make emissions control a step harder.
In my opinion the only way is to make it mor complicated like the detroit diesels so as to abandon loop scavenging and even they had to be phased out for emissions compliance and that was with the GM dollar behind them
Good luck hope I'm wrong
Keep on trying
Excellent 😊
The 2-stroke engine with electronic fuel injection will not be able to work well because the crankshaft and piston are not lubricated. In case lubricating oil is introduced, it will be extremely polluting to the air.
Let's use bicycle for a better inviroment.
a 2 stroke will never be as green as a 4 stroke because still burns oil so the main reason is not cost because the benefits still are better than the drawbacks
only mazda did a 2 stroke as green as a four stroke :)
@2strokestuffing get it done boss with a wideband and egt
@ 2 stroke stuffing
Whel there is a very big economie pro about 2strokes les moving parts les friction les wait and you need les cc for the same power but they need to find a way to have a whet crankcase and for the induction they need to use a compressor or supper charger
Locomotive turbo desiel 8cyl electronic fuel injection 2 stroke are still around but fuel efficiency is not good compared to 4 stroke.
I would love to see the two stroke make a return - HOWEVER - the powers-that-shouldn't-be have declared electric vehicles to be our future... so the much sought after two stroke revival won't happen..
Direct injected 2T aren't something new, Rotax, Piaggio and a lot of others.
But! The major problem is the time-frame to inject at a several speed/revolution.
And still until now there is no injector who is fast enough.
That's it 😉
Na if you dont find something fast enough (and there is fast enoug stuff) you can just use 2 injectors
Fuel Mixture control was NOT the Major problem for Piston Ported Two-Strokes emissions . It was , and always will be , TOTAL LOSS Oiling .
Exactly, two strokes are done for anything on roads. Days are limited for off road too. Battery electric baby.
@@leerjet18 . Please . Don't come here as an " All Electric " proponent/apologist .
That is a VERY likely to fail concept .
It's False Environmentalism , that is also totally lacking infrastructure .
Just the latest NIMBY/Wokeist Trendy bandwagon .
Don't misunderstand , Electric Vehicles do have their place and uses that WILL be beneficial . But universal , mandatory implementation ? Sheer HOKUM .
Two strokes ?? Only for chainsaw
0:24 0:24 0:24
it already exist aprilia does it
Bimota almost went bankrupt in the 90s trying to make a fuel-injected 2-stroke street motorcycle. I doubt the big companies want to take the risk.
We're waiting
It’s the oil problem that creates the pollution.
"Pass Euro 6 easy!" We got some VW engineers working on it? 😂
The lubrication system is still not perfect: oil from friction pairs flies into the combustion chamber
How to lubricate machines ？
I pitty the people who never got to ride a proper 2stroke bike.
Evinrude have direct injeksjon
4:27 no it is not?? The main selling point is BINGBING BADABANGGANGGAN
Honda won Baja with a DI two-stroke and then shelved the technology....
Mercury outboards used direct injection 2 strokes.
Noho Hank didn't die!
Ok i make a crowd fundet development, if ur an engenir machinist or 2 stroke tuner pleas join, We NEED to be faster than bmw, WE DONT WANT A BMW 2 Stroke
yes great!!!!!
I don’t think that 2stroke engine will make a come back… unfortunately
Ktm doing this since almost 10Years already, but indirect injection. Direct would be a next step indeed!
hell yeah!
But it will still burn oil and pollute
They probably would not need that bulbous, loud pipe either.
Still gotta deal with the lubricant in the fuel.
The lubricant doesn’t have to be in the fuel (that is just an easy way to do it), but can be more directly fed to where required. This massively reduces the amount of oil required
But most 4 stroke engine use injectors. So why can't 2 stroke engine use injectors
2 stroke engines sound stupid. I think this is because when the piston goes down the exhaust port suddenly opens, whereas with a 4 stroke the exhaust valve opens gradually. This could be fixed by giving a 2 stroke an exhaust port with a triangular shape. First the piston would clear the tip of the triangle, allowing a narrow passage for axhaust gases. When it goes further down the opening gets wider. There you are, gradual release of exhaust gas, just as in a 4 stroke.
Why do you think gradual release is any good. You want it out asap.
@@toddholldorf9494 You're right, asap is good for performance, but I think it would fix the sound.
SILINDER !???
2 strokes =2 DUALITY =good and bad pros and cons !!
I own a 76 rd400 no better bike
THIS IS SHIT, I see one fatal flaw, the crank and the conrod is lubricated by the fuel that has the oil in it, if you spray the fuel inside the chamber, how will be the cank lubricated if the fuel is not going around it, so you can just fill the crankcase with the oil, but this will not precompres the airfuel mixture before it goes to the burning chamber.
I think that this is a problem that you forgot to adress.
Come on, 2 stroke is dead. I am a2 stroke fanboy, but even internal combustion engines will dissapear in the near future on bikes an cars. Two stroke burns oil, therefore it will never be close to 4 stroke in terms of exhaust gases !
😠🤬😤😡
Unfortunatly this is a fake balony video.
2strokes are powerful but it will still be a gas guzzler because the power stroke is always next to the intake stroke unlike a 4 stroke.
Well with direct injection, you don’t need to have two stroke oil…….. think about it. You don’t need to have fuel hitting the crank case anymore, how ever you do need to find a way to get air in it. I’m thinking a air pump that can run off the crank that can push in to the injector as well as fuel. Then all you need is the exhaust port.
2stroke has too many problems to make come back.. 1. Durability of 2t is at best 50% of comparable 4t. 2. Direct injection will not solve the burning oil by design of 2t. 3.My 2stroke Kawasaki 1cylinder consume almost as much as my 4cyl Kawasaki but 2 times bigger and twice as powerful 4. Maintenance of 2t is 3times more intensive 🤷♂️ I love to ride 2stroke (as i mentioned i have 150cc Ninja RR and its pure joy to ride 35 hp at 124kg ) but 4stroke is better cause its maintenance free for 50-60k km and its min. cause i own 105000km scooter its f*cked but there is no way that any 2t bike could last 1/3 of that!!! Bottom line get2stroke but get ready for heavy expanses🙏