This £2K Medium Format Leica is a Bargain...With One Major Issue
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- Опубліковано 14 гру 2021
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Why go to bed when you can watch a video about a camera you will never own
Kai, I think you should do a series on older digital cameras. That might be fun!
I would definitely watch that!
Great idea! Bought an unused/mint (like really, not that ebay lingo crap) Minolta 7d, still had the screen protector film on it, a couple of years ago and I enjoy using that one more than my Sony a7rii. All the buttons are in the right places, really intuitive to use and produces great images, even if it only got 6.1MP.
Maybe included lens cost. Dunk Asiatiese. Please and Thank You.
That would be incredible
Wow lok's dad has a camera store
It looks like one of those fake "DSLR"s off Aliexpress that basically have a webcam internals.
Why is there only a grand total of 2 sample images in this video? XD
I myself am quite hooked-up to my H6D, but the S 007 is very popular amongst my fellow fashion photographers. It’s not fast, but the images are gorgeous and the camera handles great. The best feature of the S system is the lenses. These are amongst the best ever made. Combined with a 007 or an S3 textures and tonality of both fabrics and skin are fantastic. The camera itself is build like a tank. The 007 has a CMOS sensor and no corrosion issues. Whenever buying a 006 check if it has had a factory CLA. In that case the sensor was checked and replaced if needed. Two years ago, one of my colleagues was still able to have the 006 sensor replaced at the factory in Wetzlar. I don’t know whether that’s still a possibility.
Not a bad find I picked up a Hasselblad H4d, 40mp back, 32CF card and 80 2.8 lens for under $3000. It's the best camera I have ever held and the image was very lovely. Old tech is still great if you know how to work with the limitations.
Anywhere that I can see some of these photos you took with it? I've been interested in purchasing the same setup.
@@twigster0011 what's a good email?
That’s the same sensor as the Pentax 645D which for many might be a better option. Getting one of the larger sensors would be *the* reason to get an older Blad IMO.
Within a year to 18 months - or thereabouts - Fuji is expected to have a DX format camera which is more or less in the 40 megapixel range. If memory serves?
@@scotthullinger4684 and the point being?
It's great that you met up with Lok!
He looks okay dapper in his new shop
From now on, call him Patrick
@@trym2121 is that actually lok??
@@krabuh I want to know this too! Haven't seen much of him in the past few years, so idk
@@jasonandrews7355 I looked on his channel and there is a video of him from a week ago, he looks nothing like this so I do not think that this is lok.
@@krabuh gotcha. I figured it couldn't be, since he didn't sound like I remembered him, but I've been mostly checked out of Kai & Lok for a few years, so I wasn't sure.
I mean... you also could find a newer-used Fuji GFX medium format camera, with more resolution, a non-corroding sensor, faster burst, more modern features, and cheaper but still brilliant glass for around that price too? Seems like a much smarter use of money if you're wanting to get into MF
The new Fuji is about 1700 for 2nd hand though :v
The Fujifilm medium format cameras are clunky. Nothing like their APS-C cameras.
@@Mike_M_Smith Well obviously they are. Making a medium format camera as good as the Fuji GFX the size of a Fuji X line camera would be incredible.
@@Mike_M_Smith eh, it's medium format... who's expecting it to be as nimble as crop or FF? Even so, the new bodies are way quicker, I've even shot birds with the 50s mkii
@@lord6162 it's medium format :v
I had one of these for commercial work until a couple of years ago when I moved to the X1D. It’s the nicest camera to use I have known. I wanted an S 007 but they are known to break the AF on older lenses which can then take weeks to get fixed.
Picked one up a year ago. The Black and White conversions out of this 006 rival my Original Momochrom M9! Stunning and little post processing for color shots. Just make sure you have enough light and this camera won’t disappoint. Love the CCD color.
Wow, such an interesting find! I would absolutely have no reason to buy one of these, but renting or trying out a $2000 Leica medium format camera would be impossible to pass up!
I considered this camera (and the 007) for a while, to be paired with the 75mm lens, but that is hard to choose with the Z7/II in the same price and ahead in performance in almost every way.
There’s a lovely lock and pub downstream about 2 miles, doesn’t feel as grey cowey sale does. I look forward to your uploads, always makes me laugh! Have a good Christmas.. Gaz
I'd be tempted to open the camera up, remove the IR cut filter and turn the camera into full spectrum, which could be useful for MF infrared photography, astrophotography (with the right scope) and maybe even UV photography if you can source a large narrow band filter and the right lens.
Thanks Kai for information.
very cool ! need more videos that compare the old expensive technology with modern! and reviews on old cameras! I personally have an M8 and it's a super cool camera!
The sensors do corrode at least as much as the M9. Probably as fixable by third parties (permanently) as the M9, but less demand. The M9 sensor is regarded as an entire reason to shoot that camera. This one is better. The AF is usable, but is more intended for studio work. It is VERY accurate though, which I can’t say for most PDAF systems. It’s build is fantastic. Lack of buttons is hardly a problem as it also has no features. People don’t complain about a lack of buttons on an M. As the M is the nicest range finder (and certainly digital one) this is probably the nicest SLR ever made. The thing to do with these IMO - Get the split prism focussing screen (which is amazing BTW) and adapt really nice MF glass to it. These had a short flange distance (relatively speaking) and take most MF glass. They have the BEST optical viewfinder you will find in a DSLR period. They have an amazing build. Lovely images. Super simple controls. Oh and there was AF adapters for Hasselblad H and Contax 645 MF systems that appear to work seamlessly. These are still an amazing camera.
For those saying buy a GFX: The early GFXs are kind of janky. They might have better high ISO performance and DR, but they are not nicer cameras in any way. They will never go down in history as being particularly special or loved. Their EVFs are awful. Their AF is pretty average to terrible. MF is pretty woeful with bad, low res sensor read out.
Obviously you've never used a Gfx. I'm a wedding/ fashion photographer and used a 50r frequently with no issue in the auofocus department. I frequently get compliments on the looks of the camera, its durability is fantastic have shot everywhere from the mountains to the sea. And its evf is fantastic. So I guarantee you have limited to no experience with the 50s or 50r.
@@Birdisthename so you get compliments on the camera’s’look’ by randoms, so it must be good? I didn’t say it wasn’t durable. They’re about as durable as any X-Tx camera. The EVF is not fantastic. Clearly you’ve never used a good OVF, or even a really good EVF for that matter. The EVF itself is fine, but the readout from that slow sensor is horrendously bad. It pixelates like crazy during AF operations and has the typical Fuji aperture chatter. It’s slow. It is BAD when trying to use a focus magnification for manual focus. Is it usable? Sure! Does it work? Yep! Is it *good*? No! It is close to the worst modern viewfinder experience of any recent camera. If that’s *good* to you, all the power to you.
@@mattdebyl8806 ive shot on a leica m9/10 and the fuji xpro 3 and 2, as well as the panasonic s1r. So I know good evfs and certain in ovfs. The fujis isnt bad. Far from it. I havent had auofocus or pixelation issues with the evf or slow readout issues when using the camera for faster paced events or subjects. Auofocus sure isn't perfect in a contrast based system but its more than usable. To the first point if randoms and other photographers have stopped me on the street or while working to comment on the looks of the camera yes it looks good. Its nice to use a aestheticly pleasing tool.
@@Birdisthename I love how people just ignore these things confirming their bias. Recently it has become much more newsworthy with sites like DPR claiming the Z9’s EVF as being better than the A1’s. fact is that sensors (especially Sony ones) have to change their read rates etc while doing different tasks. This directly affects the quality of the image while you are looking at it. For me I find this INCREDIBLY distracting from the image making process. Some are better than others. Canon do an excellent job of providing a quality live view feed off their non Sony sensors. The GFX 50 sensor is horribly slow. It has to drop down significantly during AF operations in order to read out fast enough for AF (CDAF). Other Sony sensor cameras do this too. Fuji have always been bad for it, like my X-Pro2. But the GFX 50 is the worst of the bunch by fa fair margin. If it doesn’t bother you, all the power to you. This camera has a STUNNING viewfinder. It is possibly the best of any shipping camera ever made. That was my point. The GFX isn’t unusable, but it’s not *good* by any stretch. The 100 models are probably much improved. Dunno, haven’t used one. There are lots of reasons to buy a GFX over this thing. Lots of very pragmatic ones. But that doesn’t mean a GFX is the only answer. There are still lots of good reasons to buy one of these. Oh and I’ve owned the S1R as well which is markedly better than the GFX’s EVF, though still has pixelation during AF.
If the "build" is "Fantastic" why are these Leica's suffering from sensor failures?
Love my S2 (CCD) - amazing camera with pleasant colors
3:30 I think most medium format digital backs also have very few buttons, although this is not a camera with detachable back like those but if you're putting comparison to those it'll be more fair.
But you also need a 4000£ lens I guess?
The grey finish is gorgeous. Let's see a Leica TL3 like that.
Hey Kai, what are the gloves you're wearing? Are they easy to use in super cold weather?
It's a CCD sensor??? Weird. My only experience with CCD cameras is the Zeiss cameras on my microscope. And they run hot! They use peltier coolers to stay cool enough to avoid spurious noise and artifacts. Never knew there was CCD sensors in consumer cameras.
Pentax 645d was ccd too. Don't think it's been in consumer cameras for a decade.
Quite a lot of old APS-C camera's have CCD sensors. Same goes for point and shoots
There are a lot of CCD prior to modern cmos reign
All of the Nikon D cameras until around 2005 or so had CCD sensors and worked absolutely fine 😄
Actually, my D200 is still very nice to shoot with.
It all started with CCD (in the last century), before CMOS sensors became good enough to compete (they were only in very "cheap", low-quality cameras in the beginning). And yes, CCD runs hot, therefor the higher-resolution cameras with CCD don't have live view or video. No problem with a DSLR, as you have the mirror to see through, or with a rangefinder camera (Leica M8 and M9).
The weird thing about this camera is that it has slightly more resolution than the 007 (next version). There are some benefits believe it or not. I know from using the 007 system. Excellent battery life. Especially if you use the grip. The two batteries will literally last all day shooting over 2000 frames. I shoot dance in the studio and this camera will keep up, it doesn't overheat. I only focus once manually. From then on I use a sync cable and keep it on a tripod. The camera has a lock function on it and I don't even touch it for most of the shoot. I have tried the Fuji GFX with Hasselblad glass for high sync speed. That system is nice, but overheats. The Leica is more robust. If you have the CS lenses you can sync at 1/1000th of a second. It is actually an amazing system. Suits old school photographers. Quite possible to buy CS lenses for around 2k each second hand which is less than GFX lenses. They are better made and have a nicer feel to the image. I bought the 007 for half price new and four lenses for less than £ 15k all in. It's making money for me. I prefer it to Fuji, Hasselblad or PhaseOne.
Great vid!..love the camo jacket,is it maharishi??
Awesome video! Will you make a video of the new Ursa Broadcast G2?
$16k! Absolutely insane.
I wish Canon cameras depreciated as much 😂
A 5D 3 would be like $400 lol
Why? Would you really want a 2014 Canon DSLR? Yeah... No
@@jasonandrews7355 still not that great. And the glass would drop cost you.
@@ramspencer5492 I bought a nikon d750 a few months ago, and it's an incredible camera
They do actually
Compared to this, i think secondhand GFX 50 or 50R might be a better value, albeit probably sans lens or mostly high SC already if those sold around that price tag.
Clearly.
But leica red dot is everything 🤣
I have no plans to upgrade my current kit, but every once in a while I look at GFX prices on eBay and salivate a little bit.
@@liuweixiong995 well, tbh i don't like camera design itself lol, it's curvy body looks very different compared to other Leicas. However, it's very impressive how they manage to fit a DSLR medium format at such size, in the era where every digital medium formats are extravagantly chonks. I mean, look at pentax 645d or most modular medium formats. Most digital backs probably has the same thickness as the whole body of this camera.
For many users yes, but not if you like Leica lenses and especially not if you enjoy the great OVF. I would never by an S brand new though. The lenses used are now quite reasonable.
you are awesome man! I love the channel!
you can get a sensor changed leica S006 or S2 (and btw, they still change them, albeit at a cost). The image quality is exceptional, as long as your shutter speed is high enough to prevent camera shake. I have a nice Fuji GFX 100 and the Leica images blow the fuji’s out of the water both in sharpness and color. The CCD sensor plays a part, and the rest is probably that the Fuji lenses resolve well but not as brilliantly as the Leica ones, and the S has a third of the resolution of the Fuji.
I'm still using a Canon XT (8mp) and an Olympus Pm1. I just don't see much point in getting the latest whizzo sensor and whizzor bells and whistles. They both take pictures that are big enough.
Now you should get a Mamiya ZD or some older medium format digital backs with 22Mpix and compare them to the Leica :) I've always had a soft spot for those 48x36mm sensors :)
I’d have that in my studio like a shot! My GFX is filling that niche though.
I own the S2 for several years. Bought it with the sensor replaced. There was never an issue it was a precautions. Not one forum or FB person has stated that there has been a corrosion on the sensor.
Watching on the toilet rn
Yo same 💀💀💀
Lol same
Ive traded all my Sony gear in for a Leica SL2, its orgasmic, going to take a few years to build up a kit of SL primes though..
Leica lenses are the best
You can also adapt Hasselblad HC lenses on it if you already own them.
and the Fujinon H
Enjoyed the review - and the humour,
The Leica S-E and S006 shows it’s age and like you said, only those that “wants” it will have it..
the LCD screen is last generation and pictures look like crap on that, dynamic range is non-existent, the lenses also need an AF motor replacement of not done already.. Leica Germany replaces it for $300 or so though.. but it’s a 5-6 week ordeal! Some photographers dig the pastel like colors from CCD sensors.. I’ve used them and yes, the colors do seem lovely but that’s about it.. it’s worth buying it as a collectible in good condition.. the grips come off easily and may need replacing as well.. it’s a high maintenance camera and a used S007 is a FAR better deal today! 007 is a league ahead and produces amazing images.. good dynamic range too
(EDIT: LCD resolution is actually same as in S007.. confused it with S2 which was last gen.. sorry! S-E has 921K dot resolution screen.. the S2 had a better grip on it btw..
Yes the 007 is probably a much more sensible camera. But also quite a bit more money. I think if you paid to get the sensor GLASS replaced with non corroding version, it should otherwise last a long time. The lens motors are awaiting failure. But as you say, not too hard to replace (for now). The aperture mechanisms also fail. So that’s fun. If I had one again I probably wouldn’t bother with the lenses and just get a H adapter or C adapter. But mostly I’d just adapt MF lenses with the split prism.
S007 is available for 4-5k which is not too much more (just 2x more 😀) like the store owner said, CCD replacement is not happening anymore I believe.. people get the S body to make use of the phenomenal S glass though.. I have an 007 and hardly use it.. mostly because it’s heavy! But when I do use it, it gives me a lot of pleasure. Lenses are also available for a major bargain these days in the used market with motors already replaced.. Leica stores will sell you for a big amount.. I’d look elsewhere
@@anandk199 CCD replacement is still happening (I believe). I had mine done about a year ago. Leica haven’t said they are no longer available like they have the M9. However there are third parties now doing M9 cover glass (the bit that corrodes), which would be a permanent fix. I still think these are most interesting with adapted lenses and manual focus. If you’re going to invest in the glass you would be much better off stumping up for the 007.
Funny, I just got an email about “test driving” the new SL2. Then I started down a rabbit hole looking for the S2, wondering if it’s cheap now… and yes, it is cheap. But if the AF is like the 5D mark 2 where I would get about 50% of my images in focus, that would be the biggest downfall imo for shelling out this much… plus the body may depreciate like crazy, but the lens will remain extraordinarily high…
Always good to have Aperture input. Trusted pair of hands.
Was hoping to see some photos of the Walton area when I saw the bridge
Probably okay in the studio… the Fujifilm medium format machines may be a better bet and not too much more expensive for the entry level model. It would be interesting to see how the results compare..,
0:33 The seller kinda looks like a bit more hairy version of Lok.
This would be a great camera to scan film with.
Is this problem specific to Leica's application of CCD sensors or CCD sessors in Nikon, Sony, Olympus etc?
I love this guy ✌️
Were would one get one of theres camreas? And would that come with a lens? Is there a shop that sells them? Does one lens do it all? Is there a addres old school address. To write to haveing no conputer.?
I want to go to that shop and just talk camera geek shit all day long
beautiful cameras to use Pentax67 lenses 👍👍👍
Red dot was 14k of the original price, but since the paint faded a bit, its now 2k.
Totally unrelated to photography but wanted to say i love your Jordan 5s!!
It's tough to evaluate this camera fairly when Fuji's been in the MF game for a number of years now; excusing things like lack of physical controls, lackluster autofocus, etc. is hard when used GFX 50Rs exist out in the wild.
They are totally oposites. The built and ergos are miles apart, the 50r beats the leica in any other aspect though. It's like comparing a classic car with a modern one just because they have the same amount of horsepower
Só the lens is included for 2K?
Kai forgets to do $ to # conversion...and you need to buy extra electrical tape for the badges!
A secondhand Fuji or Hasselblad will be a much better buy !
Lok and Patrick came from the same square meter of the Earth
biggest problem about buying it are the leica lenses that are super expensive lol
Is the lens included for the 2 k
Yusss love this guy man
I would really love to own a Leica one day, but I don't think this one is a bargain. I like medium format for the better colours and dynamic range. But in that regard the s-e can't compete with modern full frame sensors. For better image quality than full frame you would need a sensor like in the hasselblad x1d ii 50c or Fuji 50R. And guess what: they can be bought at the same price point as the Leica.
@5:11. Look at the reds and the rest of the colors.
The real problems are the lenses....boy they are pricey!
Would have loved to see results from a photo trip.
Lens cost is the other barrier.
a very expensive Diana Camera then when the sensor goes pants :P
I recentky saw a Leica S typ 006 on ebay that looked new for a starting bid of $4100 and got 0. I wanted it. I didn't wa t to spend 1/3 of my checking acount though. You could probably find it in completed items.
A ccd sensor? Wow I’d didn’t know they put those in digital cameras, I thought they only put those on video cameras.
I love this shop owner.
Leica and Ricoh battling it out for cult cameras, and now for SLRs.
Well, you can always produce digital photos with a Collodion Wet Plate effect, if the sensor started corroding. What was Leica thinking about? And in ten years time we shall be asking, what was Fuji thinking about?
Camera body isn’t a big deal, but lens is.
4:09 That diss to Sony!
No sample shots, what??
Do you even know Kai?
Skillshare are the sample shots. Keep up, it's all about the money shots😊
@@toddscamera i forgot, he's Jeremy Clarkson of photography
1 sample photo?!!??!!!??!!???!
What the FUUUUCCCKKKKAAAAYYYY?!!!?
Me sat here watching this with an S2 with sensor corrosion 😑😑
This camera line is the only one that makes it difficult for me between the the S-E and the Credo.
My m 8.2 doesnt have any problem eith the ccd sensor. Ive been using it for 10 years. 5 years in southeast asia which is very humid. I dont think it will be any problem.
According to Leica / Kodak response to “Leica M9 Sensor ‘Corrosion’ Due to Dumb Design Decision, Report Claims” the problem is sensor cleaning with to effective cleaning fluid / polish that removes the protective coating from the sensor filter. So keep using whatever you got working for you and don’t be aggressive, and your sensor will continue working excellently :-)
That sensor issue was news to me so I read up on Leica response to “Leica M9 Sensor ‘Corrosion’ Due to Dumb Design Decision, Report Claims”. Leica/Kodak claim the sensors are shipped with protective coating and will not self corrode / oxidize. So root cause is (if you trust manufacturer response) a sensor that is sensitive to polish and users aggressively cleaning the sensor. Hence if the sensor isn’t corroded, be gentle with it, and it likely will not start corroding. Hope that helps owners and potential future owners interested of older Leica cameras with a Kodak sensor preserve their sensor :)
And eh, Kodak sensors being of CCD technology has nothing to do with the problem. The problem is not the sensor itself but a filter glued on top of the sensor, protected by a thin sensitive coating that is easily damaged.
Buy an SL and put difference towards a lens.
I go to this Leica shop in LONDON where they sale lots of LEICA cameras
why didn't you show some pictures taken with the camera?
No way! You found the body and a lens for less than £3k? Jebus!
Leica nowadays is emperor’s new cloth and nothing else
It looks like a cheap knockoff from Wish.
Careful, now. Make it too popular and it'll jump from 2000 to 5000
If you do have sensor problems , we'll as you said , it does have paper weight like heft .
Most Leica officinadoes would have no problem dropping 2k on a branded paper weight .
Kai W, I am curious, can you also speak Cantonese?
It eats the A7S III for breakfast though, holy moly!
How can Leica not offer to replace corroded sensors? Do customers want a ticking time bomb?
Okay noob Q did that include the lens?
Ayy no way, I did a sensor clean on one of these bad boys like 2 days ago!!
Uh, according to Leica / Kodak cleaning the sensor is the root cause of the filter corrosion/oxidation. Apparently you have to be very careful not to remove the protective coating :)
@@randomgeocacher you have yo be careful with all cameras, different cameras need different cleaning solutions
@@Xplorography yup apparently :-) honestly before googling on this Leica/Kodak issue I had no clue some sensors had easily removed protective coating. I guess glass on top is the most common solution.
@@randomgeocacher yeah, so every sensor I've ever cleaned has a thin piece of coated UV glass over the sensor, if anything gets under the protector (which it can) its a pain to clean, my fuji x-t1 has a lovely speck right in the middle, just can't shoot above f11 😅
@@Xplorography well, that’s what I was thinking about. “Leica M9 Sensor ‘Corrosion’ Due to Dumb Design Decision, Report Claims” and more importantly Leica / Kodak response. There is a protective coating, people remove it accidentally while cleaning, and then the UV protective filter oxidize and corrode into hell. So if this problem is discussed a lot in regards to Leica/Kodak and barely heard of in regards to other sensors, what’s the true root cause? Less effective protective coating? Leica owners more aggressively cleaning their sensors? Very rare user error getting hyped into being talked about as a wide spread problem? Basically falls into the big pile of funny / interesting / weird stuff to waste headspace on :)
What about the lenses though. Assuming those are insanely expensive
Design reminds me of a Pentax K-01
Great for studio camera.😅
Nice jacket
id on the Jacket?
Small correction: Leica can still replace the sensor, but they won't do it for free unless the camera is less than 5 years old.
wtf
nooice nooice... verry verry nooice... love your videos...
I was waiting for the talk of lenses. There is no way those leica lenses are getting any cheaper than when they were introduced and with a mirror in play, it would be hard to use anything but the leica lenses built for it... Unless im completely wrong and the lenses have depreciated along with the body
those are used market prices.. yes, the lenses are about half of its original price too if not lower.. the S 70mm goes for ~$2K and most other lenses are also available around $3K.. not from a Leica dealership though! their prices are still lower than introductory prices but much higher than what non-leica dealers or leica owners sell it for..
You can adapt Hasselblad HC lenses(with AF), classic Contax lenses (with AF), Hasselblad V mount lenses, mamiya 645 lenses.. They all render nicely too..