When I was a kid, my dad told me about ~Secretariat. As I grew up, it was Mill Reef, Dancing Brave. These horses blew my mind. I always liked something different when I was a kid...something to make me sprint down the streets apart from football. Then there was=Sea the Stars. I thought that it could not be better than this..........AND THEN CAME FRANKEL.... i have to tell you that in my lifetime I will never again see a horse like this...truly amazing
I agree with you but the one that made me want to watch horse racing was Lester onto of Nijinsky.Broke my heart when it went pear shaped in the Arc.He was not himself that day.I think he just got over a virus.
Consistency in perfection. A classic example of owner, trainer and jockey combining to produce a classic racehorse. Any lifetime that witnesses this sort fo thing is truly blessed.
I daresay it wasn't doctored but if you're essentially basing your opinion on times, in that if both races were shown on a split screen and Sea The Stars finished first due to having a faster time than Frankel than that's hardly clear cut. Horses like Cockney Rebel, Mister Baileys and Pennekamp ran a faster time that Sea The Stars when winning their 2000 guineas, yet I don't think anyone would have them as the better horses based on time alone. Frankel also basically ran a solo time trial in his 2000 guineas after his pacemaker couldn't head him when they were drawn widest apart and he had the race won well out, compared to Sea The Star being able to settle in off the pace and have the leaders tow him along. Sea The Stars was also all out to win the Juddmonte, whereas Frankel won pulling up and that's after the whole field came across to the far rail due to the ground that day, meaning he covered far more ground than Sea The Stars and yet was only slightly slower by time. You're entitled to your opinion that Sea The Stars was the better horse (although I and many won't agree) and people who say that mainly judge it by some of the races he won, but it's a gross exaggeration to say he was a "much greater horse" and as for Workforce being better, then I really don't know what to say about that!
Nobody said your opinions were delusional and I know the UA-cam comments section can make people think that kind of thing but I generally treat people on here with the same respect or contempt with which they treat me and you have not been disrespectful to me. I did say many will base STS as being better due to some of the races he won but if Frankel didn't race in some of those then he can't really win them, just as STS didn't race in and therefore win some of the 10 Gr1s that Frankel won. Some might say Dancing Brave was a better horse than the pair of them and I didn't think I would see many more like him in my lifetime but if Henry Cecil said Frankel was the best he's ever seen then I respect his opinion, deluded or otherwise.
The reason Cecil didn't run Frankel in the Derby was due to the manner he won the Guineas and he and the same owner already thought they had a Derby horse that year until it flopped in the Dante. I personally think they should have gone for the Derby with Frankel anyway, as the Guineas was the first time he was ridden that way and so they didn't have to try to make all in the Derby anyway. If he then didn't get the trip, they could always drop back but his full brother Noble Mission got it well enough and Frankel certainly wasn't stopping in the Juddmonte. On the times point again though, I touched on earlier how Frankel basically ran a race by himself in the Guineas, with no company or nothing to tow him along, so it's only natural that he would idle towards the finish. We saw in the Queen Anne though what he could do when given a lead and a target to chase.
Really only one story where this horse is concerned and it's not even a long one. Frankel was blessed twice by God Almighty himself. The 1st time with the kind skill and ability you might see twice, if you're lucky, in a horse in your lifetime, and he blessed him a 2nd time when he was afforded an absolute genius trainer in the late Sir Henry Cecil. A man who'd forgotten more about training thoroughbreds than most could hope to learn in two lifetimes. Sir Henry knew exactly what buttons to push with Frankel to get him to properly harness and bring out all of those incredibly wonderful, God-given gifts that he possessed. I think Frankel was probably destined to become a brilliant horse no matter which trainer Prince Khalid Abdullah sent him to, but I truly believe it took the genius of Sir Henry Cecil to turn Frankel into the kind of total machine, or force of nature if you will, that he became during those 3 seasons we were lucky enough to have witnessed it on the racetrack.
Let me see...let's start here..........Sec in the Belmont...23 and 3, 46 and 1, 1:09 and 4, 1:34 and 1, 1:59, 2:24. On cruise control, slightly eased, slightly looser hold than usual. The Belmont is even that much more interesting based on the fact that this was Sec 3rd race in 5 weeks at distances he was running for the first time.. This occurred after having set track records of 1:59 and 2 in the KD while losing ground for nearly the entire race and 1:53 flat in the Preakness having made a power move on the first turn, running an estimated 21 second quarter mile fraction with ~ a mile remaining. This my friends, is part of the story of the greatest horse ever. It is not the story of a coddled horse who ran on grass about 4 times per year and usually...12 out of 14...at LESS than classic distance. A horse who dodged classic races and distances and the BC.
postcardterry Sigh... I'll say it again, dimwit. I never compared Frankel and Variety Club. I said I have more respect for him. Completely different thing. You know why? Unlike Frankel, he didn't stay in his comfort zone. Aside from his group 2 not 3 win in Meydan, he also won the group 1 Champions Mile in Hong Kong, 7372 miles from where he was foaled. What did Frankel do? Oh he just stayed in his own backyard and kept beating the same opposition over 8f. He couldn't even travel 604 miles to France to run in Europe's most prestigious race. Not only that, he also ducked England's most prestigious classic distance races. Yeah, you sure got a champion there. A horse wrapped in cotton wool and handled with kiddie gloves, raced max 5 times a year, never over 10.5f, so his unbeaten and perfectly planned record remains intact. Also, in 2014 Variety Club was rated the third best horse to race anywhere in the world, ahead of Arc winner Treve, and Cirrus de Aigles. I fail to see how he is a mediocre horse. And you are certainly not a fan of racing or horses if you refer to a horse as "it". Kindly take the stick out of your ass and shove it down your throat so you can shut the hell up.
Reane Vermaas It is on this site Renee! You mentioned Joey Ramsden`s horse Variety Club in the same sentence as Frankel - a horse no one outside Europe has heard of unless you are a follower of Meydan Group 3`s.. It is on youtube for (here) for anyone to read Renee.You wrote it and you signed it!
Best horse we will ever see, and I agree I personally will talk about this horse for the rest of my life, he is pure class. I am happy they have retired him now, he is fit happy and healthy and will always be remembered as such. I know I look forward to seeing his decendants run
I saw him at stud and my lord he knows he's special. The greatest horse we will see in our life time. To all you Americans and Austrailains blabbing on about how your horses are better, please dream on. English race horses race on gruelling racecourses and are not full of drugs.
For an Oz man to question someone about drugs in racing is laughable ! You know very well about the calamitous state of Australian Greyhound racing and the brutal / cruel treatment of the dogs, and you question whether it happens in Horseracing there?? Of course it does ! Have you not heard of cobalt - I know you have - and do you think they administered it to racehorses in Oz to make them slower ?? You are the same man who criticizes European horses and yet your racing is dominated by our Derby winners. You are the same man who rates Oz horses so highly that your tip for the Melbourne Cup is a European bred horse by a Derby winner ! You are the biggest wanker on this website -" I don`t rate Europeans but my tip for the Melbourne Cup is a European ! " You are busted mate !
" calamitous state of Australian Greyhound racing and the brutal / cruel treatment of the dogs ? What has that got to do with horseracing ? Nothing of course. Thats like saying there are more murders in the UK than Aust so therefore you are all a bunch of murderers. Of course that's absurd. Now you make some bold statements so how about you enlighten everyone as to the calamitous state of Australian greyhound racing. You've made the statement so tell us about it and be sure to provide facts and evidence and not merely your opinion.
B Gardiner Oh yes I'll make sure I don't mention fox hunting. What a goose this bloke is. Like live baiting doesn't happen in the UK. It's merely not frowned upon like it is here. Just like fox hunting oops.
Im in love, but who isnt? His spirit is phenominal. I just love seeing that come out in him, and when it does, it something that cannot be mistaken! Picture it; in that last lap heading tward the finish, the way he pins his ears back and finds a whole new gear! Occasionaly turns his head slightly to almost looking back at those he's about to leave behind to say, "Hey!", "Now watch this..," as he rockets past them all. He is like witnessing something you'd see in a dream. When he hits the track, there's no where else he rather be then leading at the finish. Following isnt in his nature. It is amazing to me how, it seems he works on his own confidence. HE WANTS TO win. He's no fluke, but more like a child prodigy and truly miraculous, as he defies the norm and standard, again and again. I've never seen such a beautiful horse with such a perfect disposition. I cant say enough about the way he personifies brilliance in motion, and in addition to his being like no other, a majestic sight to behold. I will always love that horse! He's not just amazing, he's unforgettable.
Ok my Toy slinging friend. Here's some more quotes Ian Balding, trainer of the 1971 Derby winner Mill Reef, said "You can't compare horses from different eras but Frankel is the best we have seen in however long" Aidan O'Brien, trainer "One word describes him - incredible. He's the most incredible horse we have ever seen. He's just unbelievable." Paul Nicholls, trainer "He's the best of his generation. He's by far and away the best we have seen "
Why do people keep on with the same tired argument "He never ran a mile and a half or further, so he can't be the best ever"..? What about Usain Bolt? Does he have to run a couple of 1500m races for his greatness to be cemented? IMO, Frankel probably would have stayed 1 1/2 as a 4 year old. Definitely not as a 3 year old. He was great. Records do not lie. He battered loads of Group 1 winners, and the only time there was no daylight between him and the field was down to TQ going too soon on him.
frankel murdered everything over a mile and a mile and a quarter,saying he never went over a mile and half that don't matter, it would have beaten any mile and half horse over these distances, so frankel is the best ever horse, were he to have run over a mile and half he may have been beaten just the same bring any horse back to a mile and they would have been beaten.
ann leadbeater Frankel was an awesome horse horse but he wouldnt have beaten any mile and half horse...He would have beaten most but there is no chance if he ever came across Sea The Stars over a mile and half that he would have beat him...Frankel was by far the best miler but I think over a mile and quarter or mile and half Sea The Stars would prevail...Im not trying to start an argument like the aussies im just giving an opinion.
Paul Orchid read the comment properly and then rethink your comment...I stated he would have beaten most of them if you look at it properly...And I'm not trying to troll i was giving an opinion so im not going to argue with you like a child just leave it at that
Warren Melia I did read your comment Warren. Sea The Stars is the most over-rated horse I have ever seen. Very much workmanlike in most races beating very average types.
Well said Howard ! I blame all the pub closures in Sydney ! They should drink wine - far more sophisticated ! The expression ; Lager lout exists for a reason . When you add "internet warrior" to it, which I have only just learnt, all hell breaks loose !
I don't what all the fuss is about , its simple.....Black Caviar is the best sprinter Australia has ever had and Frankel is the best horse there has ever been.....simples.
How is this unsupported? Which bit is not supported? Frankel the highest rated horse by Timeform (i.e. supported) so I can only assume that you mean Black Caviar. Prey tell what horse would you rate ahead of her?
Pity Gardiner didn`t listen to Timeform when he tipped the fav in the Melbourne Cup(lost), the fav the week before the Melbourne Cup (lost) and Werther (odds on and lost).B.Gardiner is a fake ! He has multiple usernames on this site and by his own admission, has not tipped a winner since June. Everyone is a liar except him and his buddy Fastnet. Fastnet tipped seven in the Melbourne Cup that all lost ! That is the worst piece of tipping I have ever seen or heard about in my sixty eight years.
i am 59yrs old and i was the best exercise rider and the trainers used me to breeze and work hard on the wood .Frankel i watched all of his races and he is unbelievable .I grew up with horses. Barry shulman.
Why did they not run him over the Derby distance ? They must have known if he would have got the trip or not ! You say you were in racing for decades so you know the time of day . So why did they not run him over 1mile 4 furlongs ?
frankel was not and will never be the greatest horse of all time officially or otherwise. to lower great horses of the past to fit your view of a modern horse is simply farcical . To make a horse officially the greatest of all time without running in the best races is silly.Frankel won one classic in his life time which when you look at what he beat was one of the weakest guineas that has been run in years.he beat canford cliffs in a 2 horse race ( ran across the track ).He beat excelebration by 11 lenghts when he ran under par, ex barely hung on from a 115 rated horse for second. He beat cirrus by 1 1/2 lenghts wow, frankel took the easy route to ''greatness'' never travelling to take on the best in the best races. other horses which I would class as superior were constantly tried at the highest level home and away like dancing brave ,mill reef. sea the stars, ribot, nijinsky etc. these horses have a far superior race record than frankel yet are classed as inferior.It makes a mockery of the system used to grade top horses but the handicappers have brought it on themselves.
Derek B Sorry Mate! He, Frankel,is the greatest horse ever officially.Official ratings and Timeform.Except of course in publications which preceded his life!
postcardterry Frankels career was blown way out of proportion by him consistently beating inferior horses like excelebration over and over again.His best achievement was beating canford cliffs by 5 lenghts when he got injured during the race and ran across the track. I don't rate cirrus as a top middle distance horse he was a mud lover that could win gp1s when conditions suited. excelebration was well put in his place in the breeders cup started fav because of the frankel stupidity and did'nt even get placed.No horse of frankels calibre ran against him because hie career was carefully mapped out so there was no threat to his unbeaten tag getting blemished.Was frankel a great horse of course he was, probably the best miler ever.Was he the greatest horse ever of course not. The fact he never ran in the arc or the breeders cup tells you the connections were afraid he might be beaten they didnt think he was unbeatable so why should I.Don't forget frankel was a few strides away from being beaten at ascot , just lucky on that occasion.
postcardterry ok so what your saying is the bookies decide which horse from the past 50 years was the greatest ever, that makes sense.bookies compile race odds to suit themselfs they arn't racing experts. frankel never set any track or race records no matter what the going was or how far he beat the opposition. There are many people out there who hold the same view as i do ,that is that frankel was not campaigned as if he was the best horse ever otherwise he would have ran in the arc and derby or else breeders cup as a 3yo and the arc again as a 4yo. Instead he was given an easier route staying at home to beat the same opposition over and over again.Excelebration was certainly a very good GP1 winner but no world beater as proved in the breeders cup the same goes for cirrus.the champion stakes at ascot is a weak gp1 compared to the arc.their reason for avoiding the arc was the ground conditions then they run on soft at ascot, why not run on soft at longchamp ? because its a much harder race to win and the unbeaten tag is more valuable at stud. simple as that.
Reane Vermaas I totally agree with your estimation of Frankels career.there is no doubt whatsoever that he was a great racehorse at 1 mile but its hard to tell how good he could have been at 1m4f. Personally I think sea the stars was a better race horse than frankel he ran from 1m - 1m4f as a 3yo winning 6 gp 1s in six months 3 of them classics, breaking the track record at sandown for 10f and setting a new race record in the international stakes at york while only racing in his home country of Ireland once to win the champion stakes Easily. Could Frankel have achieved that feat as a 3yo? Absolutely not.The way frankel ran as a 3yo tells me he would not have stayed 1m 4f at all.could sea the stars have won the races frankel did as a 3yo ? Of course he could.
Derek B I personally don't think he would have been able to handle 12f. If you look at his St. James' Palace Stakes at 8f, he was pretty spent in the stretch and he shortened stride so dramatically he almost slowed down to a trot. It was a bad ride from Tom Queally, but it clearly showed he didn't have the stamina to hold up at 12f. Which explains why Cecil decided to skip the Arc, twice, and the Epsom, and opted to rather run at shorter distances where the chances of being defeated are significantly less. And if Cecil felt that Frankel could handle 12f he would have run him. To be considered the greatest of all time a horse had to face the greatest challenges and overcome adversity, be it different track conditions or a variety of distances, something Frankel never did, and that's why it boggles my mind that people call him the greatest. That is he an excellent miler is beyond dispute, and being undefeated is great, but the fact that his record was so perfectly planned, he raced so little, he kept beating the same opposition, and he never ran in the big classic distance races, makes it lose its luster. I also believe Sea the Stars to be a better horse, who ran and won in the Epsom and Arc as a 3 year old, even Brigadier Gerard. But my personal favorite and greatest of all time is Secretariat.
WONDERFUL FRANKEL THE WONDER HORSE . SO GLAD SIR HENREY HAD HIM TO BRING OUT THE VERY BEST IN HIM AND THAT HE SAW HIS LAST RACE . WE CAN NOW LOOK FORWARDS TO SEEING HIS OFFSPRING . HAS HE PASSED ON HIS FANTASTIC ABILITY TO THEM . I DO HOPE SO .
In a 6f training run for the Man O War Stakes,his first race on grass, he ran the first 5f in 56.8.He was still getting used to grass.He ran the sub 33 3f early in the yr.He was not yet 3 yrs old by the calender.Laurin was gradually building him up to get him top fit in time for the TC races.In other words, the sub 33 was run by a young,not yet top fit Sec.
Congratulations to Minding on another success today ,Monday, 05/12/2016. - MULTIPLE Group 1 winner Minding added yet another title to her jam-packed CV on Monday when she was crowned Horse of the Year at the Horse Racing Ireland Awards at Leopardstown racecourse. Thoroughly deserved !
A great little mini doco on a wonderful horse adored by so many even from a far like myself. A Horse lover from Australia currently enjoying the likes of a similar horse here called Winx. Shes quite a speedy lady herself
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Pat Eddery, Aiden Obrien Detorri cannot ALL be wrong. They all said Frankel was a wonder horse and Eddery the best he had seen. Never mind what Sir Henry said, but I do have to state Sir Henry was never one to exaggerate. Frankel is the Greatest horse ever as he won in any way he chose against multiple group one winners. Many in Tipperary could not believe how he beat their best.
What a marriage the great gentlemen trainer Sir Henry Cecil and Frankel. Frankel needed good handling and training. The owner took a huge risk on Cecil as both personal and professional problems had hit Warren Place. But, what a combination and the results made flat racing history. RIP Sir Henry Cecil you are greatly missed.
This horse was fantastic for the UK!! To even compare him to the US's Secretariat is none sense. Two different types of runners. Both great horses, Frankel was definitely the super horse of his country.
i was the best exercise rider at Suffolk Downs and Frankel is unbelievable , the people in the racing business have not seen a horse like Frankel in 4and half centuries Barry shulman.
Interesting that the same mare appears three times in Frankel's pedigree - Natalma, a Native Dancer progeny. Usually when you see an ancestor repeated, it's a stallion.
Natalma the dam of the most important sire, and sire of sires, of the 20th Century, Northern Dancer. Would that be the Natalma you're referring to. lol
@scott pearson Cont...) Frankels only 163cm but was a bull of a horse His stride was unique, Sec reach out then hit down hard Frankel reached out but seen to hang before hitting the ground. There is one more horse Black Caviar who has the same huge stride. All three had high Cruising speed others had to work alot harder just to keep with them. Thats what seperate Frankel. Secretariat and Black Caviar from other all time greats. Check out YT Vid Frankel in slow motion. Poetry :-)
We have seen great horses like Secretariat, ZENYATTA, or Black Caviar, but who knows if Frankel is greater than them. What a fight he had in him in every race.....
hes such a great horse does anyone else think he uses his strategy similar to Secretariat the way he comes from behind and takes the lead its amazing xx
When Sec ran 57.6 in training at Woodbine,it was around a plastic fence set 28 ft from the rail to protect the main track.It was still a full sec faster than the track record.According to Bill Nack "Canadian clockers were astonished at the move.They had never seen so fast a run at Woodbine."
Congratulations to Frankel on his first Classic victory yesterday when his daughter ; Soul Searching won The Japan Oaks. Soul Searching is out of the great French mare ; Stacelita , who was the only horse to remotely give Sea The Stars a race in the 2009 Arc De Triomphe. Frankel will be represented by both Eminent and Cracksman in the Derby next month. The day of the 125,000 GB pound stud fee are well and truly over for Frankel.
@protarget... Hats off you know your stuff. Very intresting reading. Ive watched racing for the past 30 years and I didnt think Id see a better animal than Dancing Brave. I was at Epsom when he careered down the centre to only just go down half a length. The speed he showed in the straight blew Me away. Then came along Sea the Stars who...
Frankel`s son ; Majoris , is due to run on Friday at Haydock if the ground is suitable. He was entered for Newbury next week but connections have apparently decided that the extra week between now and Royal Ascot could be very helpful. His target at Ascot is the Chesham Stakes !
A fast horse doesn't necessary make him better horse. Secretariat was beaten couple of times by random horses, just because it mattered how the race was played. While Frankel, they couldn't find a way to beat him, they've tried it all, slow/sprint pace, front-runner or hold-up, every way you tried to beat him you couldn't get near him. The consistency of his win lengths, the fact that he was very fast in split times and beating the best around, makes Frankel the greatest horse we've ever seen.
cont 1) Dirt is also very hard on a horse's legs. There is little to no shock absorption at all. It can be compared to a human trying to run down the road on their hands at 40 MPH.
Consistently brilliant, versatile a true great. But Frankel is unlike anything Ive seen before, I watched that Royal Lodge win at home and almost as soon as he zipped by them on the bend and extended on the bridle - I knew Id seen something special. And as hes proved, He was. I went to York to see him as its My local track and just his presense is frightening. He as an aura about him. Just a very special animal. Weather hes the best is subjective, I have huge respect for Secretariat and the past
Newmarket's 5f TR was in 1994 by Lochsong at 56.81sec Frankel's was around 58.5 SR said on the times Quote" Factor in the going allowance from that day and the six-year-old's 'adjusted' time becomes 58.61sec. Apply similar logic to Frankel and his adjusted time for the opening five furlongs on Saturday equates to 56.3sec. Admittedly there are a few ifs and buts involved, but the comparison further illustrates just what an electrifying performance Frankel put up."
there have been alot of great racehorses on both sides of the water but it is your own personal thoughts that will always make your horse the best. there really is no way to compare frankel to man-o-war or black caviar to secretariat, but it is fun for horse lovers to do.
2) There was a 4sec+ gap between Sec & 2nd at the 2f pole, At the 1/2f there was still a 4sec gap. At the wining post. The gap was still 4secs. Apart from Sham who as you well know broke down in the race, the other 3 were Mules. Sec didn't pull away from Sham he dropped back to the others, who were already 18L+ behind. Sec ran the. last 4f = 49.8 = 36.88mph. Based on recorded times the distance was around 25L not 31L. Hear Chic Anderson commentary as Sec Crosses the line. He called 25L Hello!
This horses sire's dam is a MONSTER. As was his Sire, as was pretty much all of their siblings. Urban Sea, the perfect broodmare. Also Frankel was a machine.
Anyone who remembers Frankel's father Galileo, and grandfather Sadlers Wells, knows why Frankel was so dominant. I remember Galileo demolishing rivals in much the same way.
co3)Andre Fabre, trainer "I don't know what else you can say about him. He's the best horse who has ever been bred; he's a combination of power and charm. He has a great personality. He's extraordinary. The best I had seen before was Mill Reef, but Frankel is better." John Oxx Frankel is the best ever, having abundant energy; He wins with lengths to spare as he did on several occasions. That’s what set him apart from other recent champions like Sea the Stars" I have loads more. He! He! He!
How Was Frankel Rated 140 is what i dont Understand Whatsoever... While Golden Horn had 131 and American Pahroh at 133?? Europeans are 10-20 Points over rated
I would never knock Secretariat because he was not on bute or Lasix.He must have been great for so many people to use him as a yardstick for greatness but wide margin winners are an everyday thing in US racing. They are not that common in UK turf races and they are quite rare in Group One mile races all over Europe. Frankel rewrote that chapter! He also rewrote the starting price methodology because he ran at 1/20(1.05) in a Group One and twice at 1/10(1.10).You could argue that the opposition was poor but Farrh would have been a European champion and so would Excelebration if Frankel had not existed,and Frankel beat St Nicholas Abbey around 6 lengths at York, and he had won the Breeders Cup turf, which is regarded as a World Championship,and won it easily in America ,showing wonderful finishing speed.Frankel was never beaten - he raced and won fourteen times. He is the highest rated horse of all time. These are the same experts who said Frankel was the best Guineas winner in 2011.He was still unbeaten after his final race at the end of 2012.Finally, the average aggregate distance betting for a UK race meeting is around 10.5 lengths for six/seven races but Frankel also raised that by at least five lengths every time he ran, and those wise enough to bet it won more often than not.That is why I say he is the greatest and so does the British Handicapper and so does the Timeform organisation.We, in Britain, have a lot to thank 1964 Kentucky Derby winner ;Northern Dancer for. He is the greatest stallion ever, too!
Frankel won his fourteen races by an aggregate distance of approx 75 lengths. Unlike in the U.S.A, a five length Group One winner is quite rare in Britain but Frankel did this eight times including three victories by 10,11 and 13 lengths. He started odds on for thirteen of his fourteen races and he started favourite for all fourteen.His longest starting price was 7/4(2.75) and his shortest 1/20 on(1.05) in a Group One race at Goodwood, which I would imagine is a modern day record. In his fourteen races, he beat 88 rivals including the wonderful miler; Excelebration whose form figures for his career 411213112122114, and five of those defeats were by mighty Frankel. Another of Frankel`s victims was the versatile and utterly consistent Farrh whose career was 1113222211 -two of those defeats were by Frankel. Lines through Midnight Cloud make Frankel around eight lengths superior to Black Caviar and a formline through Farrh make Frankel at least seven lengths superior to So You Think. The latter perhaps misleading as Farrh was hemmed in when beaten 2 1/2 lengths by So You Think, and unlucky not to win in the view of many.Finally,a line through the great St Nicholas Abbey(a grass World Champion)and career:111631133512213330311 make Frankel easily a World Champion himself. Frankel,the only horse who really justifies the hype in recent decades.
The Hopeful was a sprint race in which Sec can be seen passing sprinting horses like they were trotters.It was a brilliant display of pure speed.To deny that is just being silly.Race experts at the track that day speculated that Sec had to have run a sub 22 second quarter mile to have passed the other horses as quickly as he did.
Assuming throughout history of Belmont the race was timed the same way, Secretariat's record still stands. ALL of Secretariat's accomplishments all stand, and compared to Frankel's, there's no question Secretariat is the better horse. 3 weeks after the Belmont Secretariat won an even longer race of 1 5/8 of a mile. This is the difference between a champion and a better champion. Frankel will never achieve the status of Secretariat!
R.I.P Walter Swinburn - you will be greatly missed ! A magnificent horseman and a man who was happy to say hello at the races. Yourself , Stevie, Pat, Willie and Lester wow !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Those were great times ! Say hello to Shergar mate !
Your right you can not compare times in racing as going, weather etc differ far too much and are not considered on the clock. No 2 races ever have the same parimeters.
great great omg great horse,probably the most consistent horse i ever saw.I think great horses have 4,5,6 really great days but i still know when the big red machine was healthy an ready to go, no horse that was made could best big red when he was healthy,he was a freak .
Excelebration generally ran his races over a straight mile and on ground with give in it, so a turning track and the ground so firm wouldn't have been in his favour, neither would being drawn 6th of 9 on a left turning track with a bend coming so soon after the start. What also didn't help his run was despite getting out well from his draw, the jockey wasn't aggressive enough to hold his good position and ended up getting squeezed between 2 other runners at a crucial time.
You like quoting times. Frankel 2011 Gns. from a standing start into a 30/40mph headwind ran 1st 5f in 57secs. Sussex 2012, Remember how easy it was for him? Ran 3f to 1f in 21.17sec 3f= 10.75. 2f = 10.42
cont2) Peter Moody’s quote the BCbook "I've been around horses all my life and never known one better than Black Caviar. I find judging her place in the history of racing hard. I'm so close to her. That's why I've always deferred to other people's opinions. What I know is, Black Caviar is the finest horse I've ever seen or worked with - until I saw Frankel win on that Tuesday at Royal Ascot" Richard Hughes, jockey “He’s the best horse I've ever seen. I've not seen anything quite like him" (co3
I: The connection's attributed Sham's poor showing in Belmont down to the fracture later due to under par training where he finally broke down and they found the fracture. 2:Sir HC (RIP) /TQ were both adamant that in the 2000gns and SJP Frankel was idling in front and waiting for the others. He wasn't even breathing hard or sweating after either race. We all saw how easy the judd. was. On the bridle to 1f . Pushed eased last 60yds. Av Speed 38mph. Last 4f in 45.5 = av speed 39.56mph
CON2) Michael Stoute, trainer, when asked how he ranked Frankel. He said " I haven't trained one as good" Nick Skelton, Olympic gold medallist "I think Frankel is a freak; he has to be the best Flat horse of all time." Corine Barande-Barbe was delighted with Cirrus des Aigles. “It is not a dishonour to be beaten by such a horse,” she said. “There are no excuses. Frankel is simply the best ever ” Still plenty More He! He! He!
Frankel form franks on all continents but because he was run only in UK the logic measure was to race Excelebration outside the country. He was raced in France, Ireland, USA. He met markedly lower class adversaries except in BC where he came only after 13 days minus the travelling time and settling in he was left with few days of rest and to adjust to the new climate, Then after all of these off-track adventures he came 2 lengths off a track record, however Frankel beat him by average 5 lengths
Timings in US do not start when the gates open as in Europe. There's a Run Up, Gates are set back from the actual distance start line. Can be 5f or 200ft depending, It gives horses a running even start In the Belm it was 30yds back from wire. 2:24 is from crossing wire & back. If timed from gates opening to exact 1f was 15secs, not as recorded. 12.2secs, was with a run up not from a standing start as in the ROW. Still with me ? So times for an exact furlong as run in UK. (Cont...
this weekend Frankel`s dad ; Galileo had grandsons finish first and second in the 2,000 Guineas, and his daughters ; Minding, Ballydoyle and Alice Springs finished first, second and third in 1,000 Guineas (from three runners).Then on unsuitable ground on Monday, his four year old daughter : Found won the Group Three and was immediately made favourite for France`s Arc ! Then on the following day Dolce Strega won the G3 Canford Cliffs Stakes at Curragh to advertise his dad Zoffany`s credentials as a stallion.Both Canford Cliffs and Zoffany were victims of Frankel ! The legend lives on after is retirement!
Here's that word alien to you FORM! Champ CDA, WR 2nd. and the worlds best 12f. A monster who seems to grow another leg. in soft going. Proven by the fact that he won his last 4 on Sft/Hvy. by a total of 36L. Nathaniel another mud lover. 2011 KG winner.2012 KG. Nse 2nd to Danedream Arc TR holder. SNA BC winner. Smashed 12 TR in Dubai Beating Gentildonna who beat arc 2nd Orfevre. What have they in common. Beaten easily on the bridle by Frankel. 12f no problems.
Look at his breeding top and bottom line. His sire and grand sire were the top stallions in succession. Kind was brilliantly bred, what a pity she died in delivering her last foal, i think her age may have been against her.. His pedigree is wonderful, lots of speed, and well balanced, oh and that huge stride !
Secretariat at his best just like Frankel didn't give his all. That's what separated them from other all time greats. Huge stride and high cruising speed. They were both in 3rd gear when other were flat out you can add Black Caviar. That's why the made it look easy. Other horses were working much harder just to keep pace. Races were run differently in Secs day, it seems US racing is becoming more tactical, and I think the run ups are shorter. So those times wont be bettered,
Frankel was the Champion first season sire !! He has already had a Group One winner in his first classic generation and a placed horse in the Derby, which is still the world`s top horserace - Cracksman was beaten one length in the third fastest time in history (3rd of 230 +) ."He" had a winner and two Group placed at Royal Ascot too.Frankel is higher than both Galileo and Dubawi in winners to runners ratio in UK, having had only fifty seven runners compared to their 180 and 130 respectively. In his racing career, Frankel retired unbeaten, having beaten two recognised turf World Champions ; Cirrus Des Aigles and St Nicholas Abbey. "He" won his fourteen races with a total aggregate winning distance of seventy five lengths, which has got to be a modern day record for seven to ten furlong races at the top level. He also holds the record for a Group One sp 1/20 on (1.05 on the tote) and "He" was odds on in thirteen of his fourteen races and favourite in all and...... his stud fee is going to rise markedly next year. If you want to criticize a horse Brian , check out Zenyatta, who never beat one horse of note and Secretariat who lost five and never beat a horse of note either, AND WHOSE FIELD SIZES WERE LAUGHABLE !! Frankel`s Queen Anne victory is the greatest singular performance of the modern era unless you believe "Ken Kall" knows more than Willie Carson, Claire Balding, Timeform and the general public who made sure he went off at 1/20 once and 1/10 on two occasions."Frankel is the greatest horse I have ever seen, you have ever seen and anybody has ever seen" Willie Carson, Ascot ,Berkshire, England, June 2012" and there is no finer judge than Mr Carson. I hope you don`t home tutor your kids Ken !
Hey Terry boy at Saratoga, the world's premier track, frinkel had a second maiden spit the bit as favorite to a sire (kittens joy) who sells for half of frinkel's fee!! Guess he better not send any more duds to the US cause his stud fee will drop to 5 thousand before u know it!!! Best he stays in the poor side of the world and keeps his offspring on those miserable english tracks! Keep sending them and we'll keep beating their asses!!!!! Yeah he had a placed horse in the derby a race his chicken ass owners never raced him in! PS I'll send you a postcard from grand old Saratoga in the US!!!
Thanks Ken but there are more Kittens Joy`s here than Frankel`s in the U.S. Ken and Sarah (the owners)have been sending them over for two years and almost all are sloooooooooow! There was one this last few days that ran unplaced. They sent Bobby`s Kitten over eighteen months ago too. I don`t think "dud" is a fair description. Frankel has sired the best filly in Japan so whatever you or I think, his fee is going up again next year. His owner also owns Arrogate and owned Dancing Brave. Frankel had a nice Group Three winner here on Saturday (from one runner) ; Frankuus. That would be the equivalent of a Group One in Oz. Regarding Saratoga, all the best things are there ; Donald Trump, Bill Clinton, Sarah Palin, McDonald`s ,Lasix, social cohesion and the highest levels of intelligence ! I hear the ole " I wish I had been born in America - they are so clever there " comment almost everyday !
Hey Ken Calamity ! What do you have to say about Frankel`s wins in France yesterday Mr Calamity ?? His daughter ; Lady Frankel, won the Group 3 and the Group 2 was won by Eminent, who is "His Majesty`s" son. Prize money not bad either @ 320,000 USD for both !! It was some Group 2 with the French Derby winner in the field Mr Calamity !Hugs and kisses from blighty Ken Calamity ! xx
Forgot to mention Secretariat winner of the 73 US Triple Crown, Easily the best American 3 Year Old ever, I believe his Records still stand today in America, most British (British myself) people over look this horse, never here him mentioned in the same breath as Brigadier Gerard, Seabird etc, The horse he beat in the Kentucky Derby, Sham also ran the race in a faster time but record books only count the winners time obviously. Makybe Diva was a great stayer, won the Melbourne Cup 3 years running and won a Cox Plate, Exciting to watch.
cont1) Globeform editor Geir Stabell, Summed up Judd spot on. 2012 Sussex rated him143 their highest ever. That was that a guess. After the Judd Stabell said Frankel’s performance was impossible to assess. “This phenomenal horse simply cannot be rated because no other horse is good enough to test him,” Stabell said. “Could he have won by 10 at York? Probably. Could he have won by 12, 14, 16 lengths? Who knows. I certainly don’t. All I know is I am happy to use ‘?’ as his rating from now on"
He's in the top 5 or 6 IMO. After that it's open to debate where he lies everyone has their own reasons. My own opinion is that Sea Bird is the greatest. As for turf being faster than dirt, that would be entirely dependent on the conditions. As far as I'm aware Sprinting WR's are held on dirt but longer distance races are turf. That could be partially because there are very few longer distance races on dirt.
i grew up in Lynnfield ma graduate of Lynnfield high school graduate of 1975.I grew up with horses and was a professional exercise rider meaning I worked out with the horses and breezed on the wood and people who are in the racing business have not seen a horse like this in 4 and half centures. He is great horse .I also am a retired dental labratory technician which I worked in a crown and bridge dental labratory with two other technicians its an art and craft and also grew up with horses. Barry Shulman.
ecky Cont1) Here's another quote. ;-) International Globeform editor Geir Stabell said he had Frankel at 142+, their highest rating ever after the Sussex and considered that rating a guess. After the Juddmonte International, Stabell said “Frankel’s performance was impossible to assess. This phenomenal horse simply cannot be rated because no other horse is good enough to test him,” (Cont2
Let’s give you some Facts. Dirt is a harder surface than Turf. a rock/solid clay base. Then a layer on compacted dirt loam. then 4/5" loose dirt. (There were rumours that they skimmed the Belmont track to make it as fast as possible ;-) Difference is horses tend to slide a little more on dirt, But It’s much preferred over turf in US because of its consistency. Horses can maintain higher speeds longer, because it’s not hindered by the softer and uneven landing grass gives. (Cont1
If the intent was to finally try Frankel at 12f in the King George and the Arc, I would've been all for it. That's the only they would've ever gotten to the bottom of how good Frankel really is. But to bring him back just to run at 10f for an entire season didn't make sense. He already won 2 of the 3 premier G1 races at 10f in the UK. The only one he didn't win was the Coral-Eclipse. Can't see coming back for that+ running in the JIS and Champion Stakes a second time. Maybe the Prix Ganay, too?
I will repeat Secretariat never ran a "RECORDED" sub 11secs furlong. His forte was running even splits. Because of his huge stride and high cruising. he could maintain the speed longer than any of the others who were using much more energy just to keep pace.
Sec was the best I have ever seen till frankel. And even though I am questioning The belmont time It still one the finest single performancs ever on a race course. Only Frankel could match it. What makes Secs special was being out on his own for the last 7f Horses usually idle but to keep it going, even by todays standars was spectacular. Only Sec could give Frankel a Race. Both had huge strides and high cruising speed Other work harder just to keep with them Thats was seperates from others
Can’t compare Frankel’s times to Secratariat. Secratariat posted records in most of the tracks he ran. Those records have not being beaten in 49 years. Frankel was nevertheless an amazing horse
@@usmcforever7630 Never mind Frankels times aginst Secs. You cant compare any North American Time with any times in the rest of the world, untill america gets rid off the cheating Run Up. And Secs KD, and Preakness times are race records not track records. In the Belmont, they spent 2 wekks getting track ready for sec. They even skimmed it. 😉😊
When I was a kid, my dad told me about ~Secretariat. As I grew up, it was Mill Reef, Dancing Brave. These horses blew my mind. I always liked something different when I was a kid...something to make me sprint down the streets apart from football. Then there was=Sea the Stars. I thought that it could not be better than this..........AND THEN CAME FRANKEL.... i have to tell you that in my lifetime I will never again see a horse like this...truly amazing
And then.... after Frankel, Enable came along!
@@kepnjem she's good, but she's not frankel.
Ah all these over bred flat horses 🙄. Give me a brave, intelligent national hunt horse any day 👍
I agree with you but the one that made me want to watch horse racing was Lester onto of Nijinsky.Broke my heart when it went pear shaped in the Arc.He was not himself that day.I think he just got over a virus.
Consistency in perfection. A classic example of owner, trainer and jockey combining
to produce a classic racehorse. Any lifetime that witnesses this sort fo thing is truly blessed.
i miss you henry, R.I.P. im sure you will. you was LOVED by everyone in racing mate.
A fantastic guy ! Well said Kenny !
The Greatest Flat Racing Horse. Ever.
Frankel was absolutely amazing and a complete stunner. I'm from the US and he's thought of so very highly.
He truely was the real deal bro.
On a par with secretariat in terms of ability.
Slight difference on distances ram but both one in a million
Sitting here with tears in my eyes an absolute legend n always will be
For a horse that has nothing to do with you...get a life
Greatest 8-10f horse of all time. Only a troll seeking attention would knock this horse.
Your opinion is very questionable when it comes to reality though.
I daresay it wasn't doctored but if you're essentially basing your opinion on times, in that if both races were shown on a split screen and Sea The Stars finished first due to having a faster time than Frankel than that's hardly clear cut.
Horses like Cockney Rebel, Mister Baileys and Pennekamp ran a faster time that Sea The Stars when winning their 2000 guineas, yet I don't think anyone would have them as the better horses based on time alone.
Frankel also basically ran a solo time trial in his 2000 guineas after his pacemaker couldn't head him when they were drawn widest apart and he had the race won well out, compared to Sea The Star being able to settle in off the pace and have the leaders tow him along.
Sea The Stars was also all out to win the Juddmonte, whereas Frankel won pulling up and that's after the whole field came across to the far rail due to the ground that day, meaning he covered far more ground than Sea The Stars and yet was only slightly slower by time.
You're entitled to your opinion that Sea The Stars was the better horse (although I and many won't agree) and people who say that mainly judge it by some of the races he won, but it's a gross exaggeration to say he was a "much greater horse" and as for Workforce being better, then I really don't know what to say about that!
Nobody said your opinions were delusional and I know the UA-cam comments section can make people think that kind of thing but I generally treat people on here with the same respect or contempt with which they treat me and you have not been disrespectful to me.
I did say many will base STS as being better due to some of the races he won but if Frankel didn't race in some of those then he can't really win them, just as STS didn't race in and therefore win some of the 10 Gr1s that Frankel won.
Some might say Dancing Brave was a better horse than the pair of them and I didn't think I would see many more like him in my lifetime but if Henry Cecil said Frankel was the best he's ever seen then I respect his opinion, deluded or otherwise.
The reason Cecil didn't run Frankel in the Derby was due to the manner he won the Guineas and he and the same owner already thought they had a Derby horse that year until it flopped in the Dante.
I personally think they should have gone for the Derby with Frankel anyway, as the Guineas was the first time he was ridden that way and so they didn't have to try to make all in the Derby anyway.
If he then didn't get the trip, they could always drop back but his full brother Noble Mission got it well enough and Frankel certainly wasn't stopping in the Juddmonte.
On the times point again though, I touched on earlier how Frankel basically ran a race by himself in the Guineas, with no company or nothing to tow him along, so it's only natural that he would idle towards the finish.
We saw in the Queen Anne though what he could do when given a lead and a target to chase.
Only a troll would post a comment like yours
An amazing horse. Probably the best flat horse I’ve ever seen. Great sire now as well.
Really only one story where this horse is concerned and it's not even a long one. Frankel was blessed twice by God Almighty himself. The 1st time with the kind skill and ability you might see twice, if you're lucky, in a horse in your lifetime, and he blessed him a 2nd time when he was afforded an absolute genius trainer in the late Sir Henry Cecil. A man who'd forgotten more about training thoroughbreds than most could hope to learn in two lifetimes. Sir Henry knew exactly what buttons to push with Frankel to get him to properly harness and bring out all of those incredibly wonderful, God-given gifts that he possessed. I think Frankel was probably destined to become a brilliant horse no matter which trainer Prince Khalid Abdullah sent him to, but I truly believe it took the genius of Sir Henry Cecil to turn Frankel into the kind of total machine, or force of nature if you will, that he became during those 3 seasons we were lucky enough to have witnessed it on the racetrack.
The greatest racehorse Ive ever seen and you won't see anything like that again
Let me see...let's start here..........Sec in the Belmont...23 and 3, 46 and 1, 1:09 and 4, 1:34 and 1, 1:59, 2:24. On cruise control, slightly eased, slightly looser hold than usual. The Belmont is even that much more interesting based on the fact that this was Sec 3rd race in 5 weeks at distances he was running for the first time.. This occurred after having set track records of 1:59 and 2 in the KD while losing ground for nearly the entire race and 1:53 flat in the Preakness having made a power move on the first turn, running an estimated 21 second quarter mile fraction with ~ a mile remaining. This my friends, is part of the story of the greatest horse ever. It is not the story of a coddled horse who ran on grass about 4 times per year and usually...12 out of 14...at LESS than classic distance. A horse who dodged classic races and distances and the BC.
Finally, someone who's not a deluded and rabid Frankel zealot and actually backs up his argument with facts.
Reane Vermaas You are deluded Renee. You were comparing Frankel and Joey Ramsden`s horse the other day. It won a Group three in Meydan!
postcardterry Sigh... I'll say it again, dimwit. I never compared Frankel and Variety Club. I said I have more respect for him. Completely different thing. You know why? Unlike Frankel, he didn't stay in his comfort zone. Aside from his group 2 not 3 win in Meydan, he also won the group 1 Champions Mile in Hong Kong, 7372 miles from where he was foaled. What did Frankel do? Oh he just stayed in his own backyard and kept beating the same opposition over 8f. He couldn't even travel 604 miles to France to run in Europe's most prestigious race. Not only that, he also ducked England's most prestigious classic distance races. Yeah, you sure got a champion there. A horse wrapped in cotton wool and handled with kiddie gloves, raced max 5 times a year, never over 10.5f, so his unbeaten and perfectly planned record remains intact. Also, in 2014 Variety Club was rated the third best horse to race anywhere in the world, ahead of Arc winner Treve, and Cirrus de Aigles. I fail to see how he is a mediocre horse. And you are certainly not a fan of racing or horses if you refer to a horse as "it". Kindly take the stick out of your ass and shove it down your throat so you can shut the hell up.
A massive mistake to admit that you even mentioned Variety Club in same sentence as Frankel Reane.This indeed proves it is you who is the dimwit!
Reane Vermaas It is on this site Renee! You mentioned Joey Ramsden`s horse Variety Club in the same sentence as Frankel - a horse no one outside Europe has heard of unless you are a follower of Meydan Group 3`s.. It is on youtube for (here) for anyone to read Renee.You wrote it and you signed it!
Best horse we will ever see, and I agree I personally will talk about this horse for the rest of my life, he is pure class.
I am happy they have retired him now, he is fit happy and healthy and will always be remembered as such. I know I look forward to seeing his decendants run
Would you rate him above Secretariat?
I saw him at stud and my lord he knows he's special. The greatest horse we will see in our life time. To all you Americans and Austrailains blabbing on about how your horses are better, please dream on. English race horses race on gruelling racecourses and are not full of drugs.
So you're intimating that Australian horses race on drugs?
For an Oz man to question someone about drugs in racing is laughable ! You know very well about the calamitous state of Australian Greyhound racing and the brutal / cruel treatment of the dogs, and you question whether it happens in Horseracing there?? Of course it does ! Have you not heard of cobalt - I know you have - and do you think they administered it to racehorses in Oz to make them slower ?? You are the same man who criticizes European horses and yet your racing is dominated by our Derby winners. You are the same man who rates Oz horses so highly that your tip for the Melbourne Cup is a European bred horse by a Derby winner ! You are the biggest wanker on this website -" I don`t rate Europeans but my tip for the Melbourne Cup is a European ! " You are busted mate !
" calamitous state of Australian Greyhound racing and the brutal / cruel treatment of the dogs ? What has that got to do with horseracing ? Nothing of course. Thats like saying there are more murders in the UK than Aust so therefore you are all a bunch of murderers. Of course that's absurd. Now you make some bold statements so how about you enlighten everyone as to the calamitous state of Australian greyhound racing. You've made the statement so tell us about it and be sure to provide facts and evidence and not merely your opinion.
Don't mention fox hunting Fastnet
B Gardiner Oh yes I'll make sure I don't mention fox hunting. What a goose this bloke is. Like live baiting doesn't happen in the UK. It's merely not frowned upon like it is here. Just like fox hunting oops.
Im in love, but who isnt? His spirit is phenominal. I just love seeing that come out in him, and when it does, it something that cannot be mistaken! Picture it; in that last lap heading tward the finish, the way he pins his ears back and finds a whole new gear! Occasionaly turns his head slightly to almost looking back at those he's about to leave behind to say, "Hey!", "Now watch this..," as he rockets past them all. He is like witnessing something you'd see in a dream. When he hits the track, there's no where else he rather be then leading at the finish. Following isnt in his nature. It is amazing to me how, it seems he works on his own confidence. HE WANTS TO win. He's no fluke, but more like a child prodigy and truly miraculous, as he defies the norm and standard, again and again. I've never seen such a beautiful horse with such a perfect disposition. I cant say enough about the way he personifies brilliance in motion, and in addition to his being like no other, a majestic sight to behold. I will always love that horse! He's not just amazing, he's unforgettable.
if he was American they would not just make a film about him it would be a tv series
words are cheap when you talk about the greatest racehorse of all time.your comment gets a big fat ZERO.
No they only make vids about absolute champions,the others have video docos
No they only make vids about absolute champions,the others have video docos
Ok my Toy slinging friend. Here's some more quotes Ian Balding, trainer of the 1971 Derby winner Mill Reef, said "You can't compare horses from different eras but Frankel is the best we have seen in however long" Aidan O'Brien, trainer "One word describes him - incredible. He's the most incredible horse we have ever seen. He's just unbelievable." Paul Nicholls, trainer "He's the best of his generation. He's by far and away the best we have seen "
Why do people keep on with the same tired argument "He never ran a mile and a half or further, so he can't be the best ever"..? What about Usain Bolt? Does he have to run a couple of 1500m races for his greatness to be cemented?
IMO, Frankel probably would have stayed 1 1/2 as a 4 year old. Definitely not as a 3 year old.
He was great. Records do not lie. He battered loads of Group 1 winners, and the only time there was no daylight between him and the field was down to TQ going too soon on him.
frankel murdered everything over a mile and a mile and a quarter,saying he never went over a mile and half that don't matter, it would have beaten any mile and half horse over these distances, so frankel is the best ever horse, were he to have run over a mile and half he may have been beaten just the same bring any horse back to a mile and they would have been beaten.
ann leadbeater Frankel was an awesome horse horse but he wouldnt have beaten any mile and half horse...He would have beaten most but there is no chance if he ever came across Sea The Stars over a mile and half that he would have beat him...Frankel was by far the best miler but I think over a mile and quarter or mile and half Sea The Stars would prevail...Im not trying to start an argument like the aussies im just giving an opinion.
Warren Melia SNA - thus he did beat a mile & half horse. Base an opinion on fact not troll like bollocks.
Paul Orchid read the comment properly and then rethink your comment...I stated he would have beaten most of them if you look at it properly...And I'm not trying to troll i was giving an opinion so im not going to argue with you like a child just leave it at that
Warren Melia I did read your comment Warren. Sea The Stars is the most over-rated horse I have ever seen. Very much workmanlike in most races beating very average types.
you cant label him the greatest when he's never ran the greatest races. But he is definetely one of the greats
gee, there's a lot of love going on here ! 😀
Well said Howard ! I blame all the pub closures in Sydney ! They should drink wine - far more sophisticated ! The expression ; Lager lout exists for a reason . When you add "internet warrior" to it, which I have only just learnt, all hell breaks loose !
Sir Henry Cecil and Frankel,i miss them immensely such brilliance
Why did you know them?
I don't what all the fuss is about , its simple.....Black Caviar is the best sprinter Australia has ever had and Frankel is the best horse there has ever been.....simples.
More childish, unsupported rubbish.
How is this unsupported? Which bit is not supported? Frankel the highest rated horse by Timeform (i.e. supported) so I can only assume that you mean Black Caviar. Prey tell what horse would you rate ahead of her?
Pity Gardiner didn`t listen to Timeform when he tipped the fav in the Melbourne Cup(lost), the fav the week before the Melbourne Cup (lost) and Werther (odds on and lost).B.Gardiner is a fake ! He has multiple usernames on this site and by his own admission, has not tipped a winner since June. Everyone is a liar except him and his buddy Fastnet. Fastnet tipped seven in the Melbourne Cup that all lost ! That is the worst piece of tipping I have ever seen or heard about in my sixty eight years.
She is the best since Phar Lap !
It is a shame you need so many usernames ; B.Gardiner, Bob Gardiner and B.Gardiner2000 ! You remember when you used to talk about integrity Bob ??
i am 59yrs old and i was the best exercise rider and the trainers used me to breeze and work hard on the wood .Frankel i watched all of his races and he is unbelievable .I grew up with horses. Barry shulman.
Why did they not run him over the Derby distance ? They must have known if he would have got the trip or not ! You say you were in racing for decades so you know the time of day . So why did they not run him over 1mile 4 furlongs ?
This.post.of.frankel.is.perfect.lm.agree with.mark.
I.dontcare.if.you.american.o.you.Chinese.o.wherevecity.yours.come.from.yours.not.going.to.beat.
Frankel.and.oll.you.shut.and.watch.frankel.run
well said Bobby !
Thank.you.for.telling.us.that.By.the.way.i.think.your.keyboard.is.fucked
Camelot was a brilliant horse he was 2 lengths from being a triple crown winner and he doesnt get the recognition he deserves!
frankel was not and will never be the greatest horse of all time officially or otherwise. to lower great horses of the past to fit your view of a modern horse is simply farcical . To make a horse officially the greatest of all time without running in the best races is silly.Frankel won one classic in his life time which when you look at what he beat was one of the weakest guineas that has been run in years.he beat canford cliffs in a 2 horse race ( ran across the track ).He beat excelebration by 11 lenghts when he ran under par, ex barely hung on from a 115 rated horse for second. He beat cirrus by 1 1/2 lenghts wow, frankel took the easy route to ''greatness'' never travelling to take on the best in the best races. other horses which I would class as superior were constantly tried at the highest level home and away like dancing brave ,mill reef. sea the stars, ribot, nijinsky etc. these horses have a far superior race record than frankel yet are classed as inferior.It makes a mockery of the system used to grade top horses but the handicappers have brought it on themselves.
Derek B Sorry Mate! He, Frankel,is the greatest horse ever officially.Official ratings and Timeform.Except of course in publications which preceded his life!
postcardterry Frankels career was blown way out of proportion by him consistently beating inferior horses like excelebration over and over again.His best achievement was beating canford cliffs by 5 lenghts when he got injured during the race and ran across the track. I don't rate cirrus as a top middle distance horse he was a mud lover that could win gp1s when conditions suited. excelebration was well put in his place in the breeders cup started fav because of the frankel stupidity and did'nt even get placed.No horse of frankels calibre ran against him because hie career was carefully mapped out so there was no threat to his unbeaten tag getting blemished.Was frankel a great horse of course he was, probably the best miler ever.Was he the greatest horse ever of course not. The fact he never ran in the arc or the breeders cup tells you the connections were afraid he might be beaten they didnt think he was unbeatable so why should I.Don't forget frankel was a few strides away from being beaten at ascot , just lucky on that occasion.
postcardterry ok so what your saying is the bookies decide which horse from the past 50 years was the greatest ever, that makes sense.bookies compile race odds to suit themselfs they arn't racing experts. frankel never set any track or race records no matter what the going was or how far he beat the opposition. There are many people out there who hold the same view as i do ,that is that frankel was not campaigned as if he was the best horse ever otherwise he would have ran in the arc and derby or else breeders cup as a 3yo and the arc again as a 4yo. Instead he was given an easier route staying at home to beat the same opposition over and over again.Excelebration was certainly a very good GP1 winner but no world beater as proved in the breeders cup the same goes for cirrus.the champion stakes at ascot is a weak gp1 compared to the arc.their reason for avoiding the arc was the ground conditions then they run on soft at ascot, why not run on soft at longchamp ? because its a much harder race to win and the unbeaten tag is more valuable at stud. simple as that.
Reane Vermaas I totally agree with your estimation of Frankels career.there is no doubt whatsoever that he was a great racehorse at 1 mile but its hard to tell how good he could have been at 1m4f. Personally I think sea the stars was a better race horse than frankel he ran from 1m - 1m4f as a 3yo winning 6 gp 1s in six months 3 of them classics, breaking the track record at sandown for 10f and setting a new race record in the international stakes at york while only racing in his home country of Ireland once to win the champion stakes Easily. Could Frankel have achieved that feat as a 3yo? Absolutely not.The way frankel ran as a 3yo tells me he would not have stayed 1m 4f at all.could sea the stars have won the races frankel did as a 3yo ? Of course he could.
Derek B I personally don't think he would have been able to handle 12f. If you look at his St. James' Palace Stakes at 8f, he was pretty spent in the stretch and he shortened stride so dramatically he almost slowed down to a trot. It was a bad ride from Tom Queally, but it clearly showed he didn't have the stamina to hold up at 12f. Which explains why Cecil decided to skip the Arc, twice, and the Epsom, and opted to rather run at shorter distances where the chances of being defeated are significantly less. And if Cecil felt that Frankel could handle 12f he would have run him. To be considered the greatest of all time a horse had to face the greatest challenges and overcome adversity, be it different track conditions or a variety of distances, something Frankel never did, and that's why it boggles my mind that people call him the greatest. That is he an excellent miler is beyond dispute, and being undefeated is great, but the fact that his record was so perfectly planned, he raced so little, he kept beating the same opposition, and he never ran in the big classic distance races, makes it lose its luster. I also believe Sea the Stars to be a better horse, who ran and won in the Epsom and Arc as a 3 year old, even Brigadier Gerard. But my personal favorite and greatest of all time is Secretariat.
WONDERFUL FRANKEL THE WONDER HORSE . SO GLAD SIR HENREY HAD HIM TO BRING OUT THE VERY BEST IN HIM AND THAT HE SAW HIS LAST RACE . WE CAN NOW LOOK FORWARDS TO SEEING HIS OFFSPRING . HAS HE PASSED ON HIS FANTASTIC ABILITY TO THEM . I DO HOPE SO .
the runs of farh, and st.nicholas abbey this season are making frankel look better than ever
In a 6f training run for the Man O War Stakes,his first race on grass, he ran the first 5f in 56.8.He was still getting used to grass.He ran the sub 33 3f early in the yr.He was not yet 3 yrs old by the calender.Laurin was gradually building him up to get him top fit in time for the TC races.In other words, the sub 33 was run by a young,not yet top fit Sec.
Congratulations to Minding on another success today ,Monday, 05/12/2016. - MULTIPLE Group 1 winner Minding added yet another title to her jam-packed CV on Monday when she was crowned Horse of the Year at the Horse Racing Ireland Awards at Leopardstown racecourse. Thoroughly deserved !
A great little mini doco on a wonderful horse adored by so many even from a far like myself. A Horse lover from Australia currently enjoying the likes of a similar horse here called Winx. Shes quite a speedy lady herself
Pat Eddery, Aiden Obrien Detorri cannot ALL be wrong. They all said Frankel was a wonder horse and Eddery the best he had seen. Never mind what Sir Henry said, but I do have to state Sir Henry was never one to exaggerate. Frankel is the Greatest horse ever as he won in any way he chose against multiple group one winners. Many in Tipperary could not believe how he beat their best.
What a marriage the great gentlemen trainer Sir Henry Cecil and Frankel. Frankel needed good handling and training. The owner took a huge risk on Cecil as both personal and professional problems had hit Warren Place. But, what a combination and the results made flat racing history. RIP Sir Henry Cecil you are greatly missed.
This horse was fantastic for the UK!! To even compare him to the US's Secretariat is none sense. Two different types of runners. Both great horses, Frankel was definitely the super horse of his country.
Melann Johnston Exactly. But they're not seeing it. LOL
i was the best exercise rider at Suffolk Downs and Frankel is unbelievable , the people in the racing business have not seen a horse like Frankel in 4and half centuries Barry shulman.
Interesting that the same mare appears three times in Frankel's pedigree - Natalma, a Native Dancer progeny. Usually when you see an ancestor repeated, it's a stallion.
Natalma the dam of the most important sire, and sire of sires, of the 20th Century, Northern Dancer. Would that be the Natalma you're referring to. lol
best I'll see in my lifetime for sure
@scott pearson Cont...) Frankels only 163cm but was a bull of a horse His stride was unique, Sec reach out then hit down hard Frankel reached out but seen to hang before hitting the ground. There is one more horse Black Caviar who has the same huge stride. All three had high Cruising speed others had to work alot harder just to keep with them. Thats what seperate Frankel. Secretariat and Black Caviar from other all time greats. Check out YT Vid Frankel in slow motion. Poetry :-)
We have seen great horses like Secretariat, ZENYATTA, or Black Caviar, but who knows if Frankel is greater than them. What a fight he had in him in every race.....
hes such a great horse does anyone else think he uses his strategy similar to Secretariat the way he comes from behind and takes the lead its amazing xx
When Sec ran 57.6 in training at Woodbine,it was around a plastic fence set 28 ft from the rail to protect the main track.It was still a full sec faster than the track record.According to Bill Nack "Canadian clockers were astonished at the move.They had never seen so fast a run at Woodbine."
Effortless , confident, beautiful and unique...13 wins from 13 races. Frankle ran because he loved every single minute of it..
Congratulations to Frankel on his first Classic victory yesterday when his daughter ; Soul Searching won The Japan Oaks. Soul Searching is out of the great French mare ; Stacelita , who was the only horse to remotely give Sea The Stars a race in the 2009 Arc De Triomphe. Frankel will be represented by both Eminent and Cracksman in the Derby next month. The day of the 125,000 GB pound stud fee are well and truly over for Frankel.
@protarget... Hats off you know your stuff. Very intresting reading. Ive watched racing for the past 30 years and I didnt think Id see a better animal than Dancing Brave. I was at Epsom when he careered down the centre to only just go down half a length. The speed he showed in the straight blew Me away. Then came along Sea the Stars who...
Frankel`s son ; Majoris , is due to run on Friday at Haydock if the ground is suitable. He was entered for Newbury next week but connections have apparently decided that the extra week between now and Royal Ascot could be very helpful. His target at Ascot is the Chesham Stakes !
A fast horse doesn't necessary make him better horse. Secretariat was beaten couple of times by random horses, just because it mattered how the race was played. While Frankel, they couldn't find a way to beat him, they've tried it all, slow/sprint pace, front-runner or hold-up, every way you tried to beat him you couldn't get near him. The consistency of his win lengths, the fact that he was very fast in split times and beating the best around, makes Frankel the greatest horse we've ever seen.
cont 1) Dirt is also very hard on a horse's legs. There is little to no shock absorption at all. It can be compared to a human trying to run down the road on their hands at 40 MPH.
Consistently brilliant, versatile a true great. But Frankel is unlike anything Ive seen before, I watched that Royal Lodge win at home and almost as soon as he zipped by them on the bend and extended on the bridle - I knew Id seen something special. And as hes proved, He was. I went to York to see him as its My local track and just his presense is frightening. He as an aura about him. Just a very special animal. Weather hes the best is subjective, I have huge respect for Secretariat and the past
He is now proving to be possibly the best sire in recent history.
My fav horse of Al time he was sensational miss the king never be another like him again
Newmarket's 5f TR was in 1994 by Lochsong at 56.81sec Frankel's was around 58.5 SR said on the times Quote" Factor in the going allowance from that day and the six-year-old's 'adjusted' time becomes 58.61sec. Apply similar logic to Frankel and his adjusted time for the opening five furlongs on Saturday equates to 56.3sec. Admittedly there are a few ifs and buts involved, but the comparison further illustrates just what an electrifying performance Frankel put up."
The race at York did it for me he was one of the best horses ever to race.
there have been alot of great racehorses on both sides of the water but it is your own personal thoughts that will always make your horse the best. there really is no way to compare frankel to man-o-war or black caviar to secretariat, but it is fun for horse lovers to do.
2) There was a 4sec+ gap between Sec & 2nd at the 2f pole, At the 1/2f there was still a 4sec gap. At the wining post. The gap was still 4secs. Apart from Sham who as you well know broke down in the race, the other 3 were Mules. Sec didn't pull away from Sham he dropped back to the others, who were already 18L+ behind. Sec ran the. last 4f = 49.8 = 36.88mph. Based on recorded times the distance was around 25L not 31L. Hear Chic Anderson commentary as Sec Crosses the line. He called 25L Hello!
This horses sire's dam is a MONSTER. As was his Sire, as was pretty much all of their siblings. Urban Sea, the perfect broodmare. Also Frankel was a machine.
Anyone who remembers Frankel's father Galileo, and grandfather Sadlers Wells, knows why Frankel was so dominant. I remember Galileo demolishing rivals in much the same way.
I don't. Frankel in a different league to his father.
co3)Andre Fabre, trainer "I don't know what else you can say about him. He's the best horse who has ever been bred; he's a combination of power and charm. He has a great personality. He's extraordinary. The best I had seen before was Mill Reef, but Frankel is better." John Oxx Frankel is the best ever, having abundant energy; He wins with lengths to spare as he did on several occasions. That’s what set him apart from other recent champions like Sea the Stars"
I have loads more. He! He! He!
Frankel The best and Top Class Flat Racing Horse There Will Ever be
Hope He Is Having A Happy Retirement Now
eddie jackson Bravo Eddie ! And every British and world handicapper would agree!
eddie jackson Retirement hes at stud aint he?
How Was Frankel Rated 140 is what i dont Understand Whatsoever... While Golden Horn had 131 and American Pahroh at 133?? Europeans are 10-20 Points over rated
I love him so much
I would never knock Secretariat because he was not on bute or Lasix.He must have been great for so many people to use him as a yardstick for greatness but wide margin winners are an everyday thing in US racing. They are not that common in UK turf races and they are quite rare in Group One mile races all over Europe. Frankel rewrote that chapter! He also rewrote the starting price methodology because he ran at 1/20(1.05) in a Group One and twice at 1/10(1.10).You could argue that the opposition was poor but Farrh would have been a European champion and so would Excelebration if Frankel had not existed,and Frankel beat St Nicholas Abbey around 6 lengths at York, and he had won the Breeders Cup turf, which is regarded as a World Championship,and won it easily in America ,showing wonderful finishing speed.Frankel was never beaten - he raced and won fourteen times. He is the highest rated horse of all time. These are the same experts who said Frankel was the best Guineas winner in 2011.He was still unbeaten after his final race at the end of 2012.Finally, the average aggregate distance betting for a UK race meeting is around 10.5 lengths for six/seven races but Frankel also raised that by at least five lengths every time he ran, and those wise enough to bet it won more often than not.That is why I say he is the greatest and so does the British Handicapper and so does the Timeform organisation.We, in Britain, have a lot to thank 1964 Kentucky Derby winner ;Northern Dancer for. He is the greatest stallion ever, too!
Frankel won his fourteen races by an aggregate distance of approx 75 lengths. Unlike in the U.S.A, a five length Group One winner is quite rare in Britain but Frankel did this eight times including three victories by 10,11 and 13 lengths. He started odds on for thirteen of his fourteen races and he started favourite for all fourteen.His longest starting price was 7/4(2.75) and his shortest 1/20 on(1.05) in a Group One race at Goodwood, which I would imagine is a modern day record. In his fourteen races, he beat 88 rivals including the wonderful miler; Excelebration whose form figures for his career 411213112122114, and five of those defeats were by mighty Frankel. Another of Frankel`s victims was the versatile and utterly consistent Farrh whose career was 1113222211 -two of those defeats were by Frankel. Lines through Midnight Cloud make Frankel around eight lengths superior to Black Caviar and a formline through Farrh make Frankel at least seven lengths superior to So You Think. The latter perhaps misleading as Farrh was hemmed in when beaten 2 1/2 lengths by So You Think, and unlucky not to win in the view of many.Finally,a line through the great St Nicholas Abbey(a grass World Champion)and career:111631133512213330311 make Frankel easily a World Champion himself. Frankel,the only horse who really justifies the hype in recent decades.
The Hopeful was a sprint race in which Sec can be seen passing sprinting horses like they were trotters.It was a brilliant display of pure speed.To deny that is just being silly.Race experts at the track that day speculated that Sec had to have run a sub 22 second quarter mile to have passed the other horses as quickly as he did.
Best horse ever. End of discussion.
I could jockey this horse and it would win the race. What a horse....never to be seen in my lifetime again!
theres never been a horse run at that speed he covered 22 feet with every stride, the greatest!
Tell that to the Yanks that think Secretariat was the best ever.
I love frankel, I wish I could see him and be on a horse like him. I dream about it
Assuming throughout history of Belmont the race was timed the same way, Secretariat's record still stands. ALL of Secretariat's accomplishments all stand, and compared to Frankel's, there's no question Secretariat is the better horse. 3 weeks after the Belmont Secretariat won an even longer race of 1 5/8 of a mile. This is the difference between a champion and a better champion. Frankel will never achieve the status of Secretariat!
R.I.P Walter Swinburn - you will be greatly missed ! A magnificent horseman and a man who was happy to say hello at the races. Yourself , Stevie, Pat, Willie and Lester wow !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Those were great times ! Say hello to Shergar mate !
Your right you can not compare times in racing as going, weather etc differ far too much and are not considered on the clock. No 2 races ever have the same parimeters.
great great omg great horse,probably the most consistent horse i ever saw.I think great horses have 4,5,6 really great days but i still know when the big red machine was healthy an ready to go, no horse that was made could best big red when he was healthy,he was a freak .
Excelebration generally ran his races over a straight mile and on ground with give in it, so a turning track and the ground so firm wouldn't have been in his favour, neither would being drawn 6th of 9 on a left turning track with a bend coming so soon after the start.
What also didn't help his run was despite getting out well from his draw, the jockey wasn't aggressive enough to hold his good position and ended up getting squeezed between 2 other runners at a crucial time.
You like quoting times. Frankel 2011 Gns. from a standing start into a 30/40mph headwind ran 1st 5f in 57secs. Sussex 2012, Remember how easy it was for him? Ran 3f to 1f in 21.17sec 3f= 10.75. 2f = 10.42
Frankel foals will be ones to watch
cont2) Peter Moody’s quote the BCbook "I've been around horses all my life and never known one better than Black Caviar. I find judging her place in the history of racing hard. I'm so close to her. That's why I've always deferred to other people's opinions. What I know is, Black Caviar is the finest horse I've ever seen or worked with - until I saw Frankel win on that Tuesday at Royal Ascot" Richard Hughes, jockey “He’s the best horse I've ever seen. I've not seen anything quite like him" (co3
Agree. Would love to have seen another season out of him.
Enjoy the retirement.
The Champion horse. Im frankel Turkish fan.
I: The connection's attributed Sham's poor showing in Belmont down to the fracture later due to under par training where he finally broke down and they found the fracture.
2:Sir HC (RIP) /TQ were both adamant that in the 2000gns and SJP Frankel was idling in front and waiting for the others. He wasn't even breathing hard or sweating after either race. We all saw how easy the judd. was. On the bridle to 1f . Pushed eased last 60yds. Av Speed 38mph. Last 4f in 45.5 = av speed 39.56mph
CON2) Michael Stoute, trainer, when asked how he ranked Frankel. He said " I haven't trained one as good" Nick Skelton, Olympic gold medallist "I think Frankel is a freak; he has to be the best Flat horse of all time." Corine Barande-Barbe was delighted with Cirrus des Aigles. “It is not a dishonour to be beaten by such a horse,” she said. “There are no excuses. Frankel is simply the best ever ”
Still plenty More He! He! He!
the 1000'nd guinees is just insane. any normal horse cannot win that race blazing out like that
Frankel form franks on all continents but because he was run only in UK the logic measure was to race Excelebration outside the country. He was raced in France, Ireland, USA. He met markedly lower class adversaries except in BC where he came only after 13 days minus the travelling time and settling in he was left with few days of rest and to adjust to the new climate, Then after all of these off-track adventures he came 2 lengths off a track record, however Frankel beat him by average 5 lengths
Timings in US do not start when the gates open as in Europe. There's a Run Up, Gates are set back from the actual distance start line. Can be 5f or 200ft depending, It gives horses a running even start In the Belm it was 30yds back from wire. 2:24 is from crossing wire & back. If timed from gates opening to exact 1f was 15secs, not as recorded. 12.2secs, was with a run up not from a standing start as in the ROW. Still with me ? So times for an exact furlong as run in UK. (Cont...
this weekend Frankel`s dad ; Galileo had grandsons finish first and second in the 2,000 Guineas, and his daughters ; Minding, Ballydoyle and Alice Springs finished first, second and third in 1,000 Guineas (from three runners).Then on unsuitable ground on Monday, his four year old daughter : Found won the Group Three and was immediately made favourite for France`s Arc ! Then on the following day Dolce Strega won the G3 Canford Cliffs Stakes at Curragh to advertise his dad Zoffany`s credentials as a stallion.Both Canford Cliffs and Zoffany were victims of Frankel ! The legend lives on after is retirement!
Gorgeous horse...
Jane G - Love Is A Soldier (Official Music Video)
Here's that word alien to you FORM! Champ CDA, WR 2nd. and the worlds best 12f. A monster who seems to grow another leg. in soft going. Proven by the fact that he won his last 4 on Sft/Hvy. by a total of 36L. Nathaniel another mud lover. 2011 KG winner.2012 KG. Nse 2nd to Danedream Arc TR holder. SNA BC winner. Smashed 12 TR in Dubai Beating Gentildonna who beat arc 2nd Orfevre. What have they in common. Beaten easily on the bridle by Frankel. 12f no problems.
The best horse ever on the flat, wont be beaten
Look at his breeding top and bottom line. His sire and grand sire were the top stallions in succession. Kind was brilliantly bred, what a pity she died in delivering her last foal, i think her age may have been against her.. His pedigree is wonderful, lots of speed, and well balanced, oh and that huge stride !
Secretariat at his best just like Frankel didn't give his all. That's what separated them from other all time greats. Huge stride and high cruising speed. They were both in 3rd gear when other were flat out you can add Black Caviar. That's why the made it look easy. Other horses were working much harder just to keep pace. Races were run differently in Secs day, it seems US racing is becoming more tactical, and I think the run ups are shorter. So those times wont be bettered,
Frankel was the Champion first season sire !! He has already had a Group One winner in his first classic generation and a placed horse in the Derby, which is still the world`s top horserace - Cracksman was beaten one length in the third fastest time in history (3rd of 230 +) ."He" had a winner and two Group placed at Royal Ascot too.Frankel is higher than both Galileo and Dubawi in winners to runners ratio in UK, having had only fifty seven runners compared to their 180 and 130 respectively. In his racing career, Frankel retired unbeaten, having beaten two recognised turf World Champions ; Cirrus Des Aigles and St Nicholas Abbey. "He" won his fourteen races with a total aggregate winning distance of seventy five lengths, which has got to be a modern day record for seven to ten furlong races at the top level. He also holds the record for a Group One sp 1/20 on (1.05 on the tote) and "He" was odds on in thirteen of his fourteen races and favourite in all and...... his stud fee is going to rise markedly next year. If you want to criticize a horse Brian , check out Zenyatta, who never beat one horse of note and Secretariat who lost five and never beat a horse of note either, AND WHOSE FIELD SIZES WERE LAUGHABLE !! Frankel`s Queen Anne victory is the greatest singular performance of the modern era unless you believe "Ken Kall" knows more than Willie Carson, Claire Balding, Timeform and the general public who made sure he went off at 1/20 once and 1/10 on two occasions."Frankel is the greatest horse I have ever seen, you have ever seen and anybody has ever seen" Willie Carson, Ascot ,Berkshire, England, June 2012" and there is no finer judge than Mr Carson. I hope you don`t home tutor your kids Ken !
Hey Terry boy at Saratoga, the world's premier track, frinkel had a second maiden spit the bit as favorite to a sire (kittens joy) who sells for half of frinkel's fee!! Guess he better not send any more duds to the US cause his stud fee will drop to 5 thousand before u know it!!! Best he stays in the poor side of the world and keeps his offspring on those miserable english tracks! Keep sending them and we'll keep beating their asses!!!!! Yeah he had a placed horse in the derby a race his chicken ass owners never raced him in! PS I'll send you a postcard from grand old Saratoga in the US!!!
Thanks Ken but there are more Kittens Joy`s here than Frankel`s in the U.S. Ken and Sarah (the owners)have been sending them over for two years and almost all are sloooooooooow! There was one this last few days that ran unplaced. They sent Bobby`s Kitten over eighteen months ago too. I don`t think "dud" is a fair description. Frankel has sired the best filly in Japan so whatever you or I think, his fee is going up again next year. His owner also owns Arrogate and owned Dancing Brave. Frankel had a nice Group Three winner here on Saturday (from one runner) ; Frankuus. That would be the equivalent of a Group One in Oz. Regarding Saratoga, all the best things are there ; Donald Trump, Bill Clinton, Sarah Palin, McDonald`s ,Lasix, social cohesion and the highest levels of intelligence ! I hear the ole " I wish I had been born in America - they are so clever there " comment almost everyday !
I don't know what kittens joy has to do with it but anyhow, thank you, your jealousy is very flattering!!!!!
That is because you are thicker than pig shit Kenco ! Trailer trash I believe its called in America.
Hey Ken Calamity ! What do you have to say about Frankel`s wins in France yesterday Mr Calamity ?? His daughter ; Lady Frankel, won the Group 3 and the Group 2 was won by Eminent, who is "His Majesty`s" son. Prize money not bad either @ 320,000 USD for both !! It was some Group 2 with the French Derby winner in the field Mr Calamity !Hugs and kisses from blighty Ken Calamity ! xx
Forgot to mention Secretariat winner of the 73 US Triple Crown, Easily the best American 3 Year Old ever, I believe his Records still stand today in America, most British (British myself) people over look this horse, never here him mentioned in the same breath as Brigadier Gerard, Seabird etc, The horse he beat in the Kentucky Derby, Sham also ran the race in a faster time but record books only count the winners time obviously. Makybe Diva was a great stayer, won the Melbourne Cup 3 years running and won a Cox Plate, Exciting to watch.
Greats around the world. What I do know is in 30 years of racing I havent seen a horse who would have been capable of beating him. He was effortless
cont1) Globeform editor Geir Stabell, Summed up Judd spot on. 2012 Sussex rated him143 their highest ever. That was that a guess. After the Judd Stabell said Frankel’s performance was impossible to assess. “This phenomenal horse simply cannot be rated because no other horse is good enough to test him,” Stabell said. “Could he have won by 10 at York? Probably. Could he have won by 12, 14, 16 lengths? Who knows. I certainly don’t. All I know is I am happy to use ‘?’ as his rating from now on"
He's in the top 5 or 6 IMO. After that it's open to debate where he lies everyone has their own reasons. My own opinion is that Sea Bird is the greatest. As for turf being faster than dirt, that would be entirely dependent on the conditions. As far as I'm aware Sprinting WR's are held on dirt but longer distance races are turf. That could be partially because there are very few longer distance races on dirt.
i grew up in Lynnfield ma graduate of Lynnfield high school graduate of 1975.I grew up with horses and was a professional exercise rider meaning I worked out with the horses and breezed on the wood and people who are in the racing business have not seen a horse like this in 4 and half centures. He is great horse .I also am a retired dental labratory technician which I worked in a crown and bridge dental labratory with two other technicians its an art and craft and also grew up with horses. Barry Shulman.
ecky Cont1) Here's another quote. ;-) International Globeform editor Geir Stabell said he had Frankel at 142+, their highest rating ever after the Sussex and considered that rating a guess. After the Juddmonte International, Stabell said “Frankel’s performance was impossible to assess. This phenomenal horse simply cannot be rated because no other horse is good enough to test him,” (Cont2
equine perfection and i dont think we saw the best of him
Let’s give you some Facts. Dirt is a harder surface than Turf. a rock/solid clay base. Then a layer on compacted dirt loam. then 4/5" loose dirt. (There were rumours that they skimmed the Belmont track to make it as fast as possible ;-) Difference is horses tend to slide a little more on dirt, But It’s much preferred over turf in US because of its consistency. Horses can maintain higher speeds longer, because it’s not hindered by the softer and uneven landing grass gives. (Cont1
Without a doubt, Frankel was the second greatest miler I have ever seen. Brigadier Gerard was the best.
If the intent was to finally try Frankel at 12f in the King George and the Arc, I would've been all for it. That's the only they would've ever gotten to the bottom of how good Frankel really is. But to bring him back just to run at 10f for an entire season didn't make sense. He already won 2 of the 3 premier G1 races at 10f in the UK. The only one he didn't win was the Coral-Eclipse. Can't see coming back for that+ running in the JIS and Champion Stakes a second time. Maybe the Prix Ganay, too?
I will repeat Secretariat never ran a "RECORDED" sub 11secs furlong. His forte was running even splits. Because of his huge stride and high cruising. he could maintain the speed longer than any of the others who were using much more energy just to keep pace.
Sec was the best I have ever seen till frankel. And even though I am questioning The belmont time It still one the finest single performancs ever on a race course. Only Frankel could match it. What makes Secs special was being out on his own for the last 7f Horses usually idle but to keep it going, even by todays standars was spectacular. Only Sec could give Frankel a Race. Both had huge strides and high cruising speed Other work harder just to keep with them Thats was seperates from others
Can’t compare Frankel’s times to Secratariat. Secratariat posted records in most of the tracks he ran. Those records have not being beaten in 49 years. Frankel was nevertheless an amazing horse
@@usmcforever7630 Never mind Frankels times aginst Secs. You cant compare any North American Time with any times in the rest of the world, untill america gets rid off the cheating Run Up. And Secs KD, and Preakness times are race records not track records. In the Belmont, they spent 2 wekks getting track ready for sec. They even skimmed it. 😉😊
A horse from heaven