Exactly right!! We gravitate towards this sort of idea of “justice.” And when horrible people commit particularly horrible crimes, especially crimes that involve children, we want them to “pay,” to “suffer,” for what they have done - to the uttermost, if you will. We don’t want them to be forgiven. And we can’t even imagine a world or a scenario wherein they would ever repent for what they have done. And, in some cases, we can’t imagine where even their doing so would be “enough” to make up for the horrid nature of their crime. Our egos also like to feel “special.” But not just special, more special (or “better”) than someone else. As Peter Hiett has often put it “we need and eternity of losers, in order to feel like a winner” (or something like that). The Bible tells us that there are “many called, but few chosen,” and we simply see ourselves in the chosen (or elect) category. And we assume (or have been taught to believe) that the “few” who are chosen have been chosen for salvation. Meaning the rest must be forever lost, unsaved. We don’t realize that the few who are chosen are those who are chosen to labor in the field, wherein the entire field gets harvested. (The harvest truly is plenteous, but the labourers are few! - Mat 9:37)
I agree will all but 'horrible people who commit horrible crimes'. How about people who commit horrible crimes. I truly believe a person can only give what they have. What else do they have to give? So, a person who commits a horrible crime and gives unbearable pain to others must be in unbearable pain themselves. What does a person in unbearable pain need? Compassion and healing, not judgement and retribution. These people are, after all, created in the image of God. How then can then be horrible people? Damaged, corrupted, dangerous; yes. But, as childeren of God, worthy of our compassion. Maybe one of the reasons Universalism is unpopular, and why sometimes even Universalists struggle, is because, if the worst among us can change then what excuse does anyone else have for not changing. If the world's worst criminals changed then society would have to change its view of them, society would have to change. Perhaps society finds it easier to label some people as unable to change and so not have to change itself.
@Ben I don't think we disagree. The "pain" of others isn't always obvious. In fact, there are some who take pleasure in the suffering of others. They actually "enjoy" hurting the people they hurt. So we tend to "enjoy" seeing them reap what they have sewn. And, most of the time, leave no space for grace and the healing power of Christ. Especially of we believe that, though he CAN, he WON'T... UNLESS we want him to... and we assume many simply don't "want" to be healed.
@@Chrissiela I don't think we disagree either. Just sharing what I have learned. I don't believe anyone takes pleasure in the suffering of others, even though they make think they do themselves. I rather believe that the suffering of others provides temporary, and ultimately false, relief from the pain they find themselves in. They take pleasure in this relief. Kind of like animal sacrifice, it never cleased us of sin, but having a scapegoat gave us some relief from our guilt. Do we really enjoy seeing others suffer for the pain they have caused, or do we feel relief from our pain when we see them suffer for the pain they have caused? I believe their suffering makes us feel better about our suffering which actually makes us no different from them. We are doing exactly the same thing to them as what they have done to others, a perpetual cycle of suffering, all so we feel better about our own suffering.
I think many people hold to an unending hell because they believe God hates them, and they hate themselves, and they see no hope of that ever changing.
I think a lot of mainstream Christians secretly despise their own faith. They feel they deserve a special reward for all the “hard work” they put in. It never seems to occur to them that following God is its own reward here and now.
I sure hope as someone who backslid, I hope it's started for me early so I don't have to face that consequence, I used to fear it but slowly (I think) I'm going to not fear it so much but more fear of how it must make Him feel that I did.. I'm not sure exactly but I hope so.. truly I do, I don't want to make Him have to do that anymore than He has to... Like a earthly dad having to correct a child.. I'm a feelings type person and I struggle with it, not to feel sorry for myself BUT feel sorry I hurt Him instead... Could certainly use prayer, I really miss how He touched me the way no one else could.. All I can hope for is this is loving chastisement!
If only I had been taught as a child and as a teenager that God is our gracious, merciful, loving Heavenly Father who never ceases to love us rather than this portrayal of God as being a stern 'just' being whose wrath needed to be appeased by following certain rules / achieving a certain level of performance ! It makes me angry to think back at how that maligning of God confused and harmed me throughout several decades.
I think it's all just part of the process of coming home. People have thought terribly about God for so long, even for centuries before Christ, that they have a hard time accepting anything other than the monstrous picture they have inherited. It truly is a form of child abuse. I still struggle with that ingrained anxiety every day. Yet even with that pestering voice whispering to me daily "God isn't actually that good" I've chosen that the God who is love will reign in the lives of my children. Even if I'm wrong, that condemnation can't be passed onto them because I'll be the one that taught them that.
@@Jordan-hz1wr i'm so glad the cycle will end with you as well! i made a similar decision for my future children. this picture of a vindictive God is sooo insidious and ugly.. i can only imagine how mentally & emotionally & spiritually healthy the kids will be who grow up free from its shadow!
The concept of the "torturing God" has always reminded me of that Twilight Zone episode about the little 6-year-old mutant who sends people to "the cornfield" on a whim if they incur his wrath. I've always wondered if Jerome Bixby, who wrote the short story that the Twilight Zone episode is based on, was not parodying and critiquing orthodox Christianity.
It's ridiculous sometimes that as believers we can't even get it right and find the real truth and there is so much confusion and I'm correct and your the one wrong amoungst us, it can get embarrassing
@@KSSBG It's all of God. It's one of the ways He will glorify Himself. By bringing together what is seemingly irreconcilable. This is the "power" that Paul speaks of in 2Ti 1:7.
Re Damon.. Zech 3:4 And the celestial messenger said to those who were standing before him, 'Remove the filthy garments from him'. And to him he said, 'Behold, I have taken your iniquity away from you, and I will clothe you with righteousness'. (This prophecy has been fulfilled at the cross of Jesus). Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we WERE still sinners, Christ died for us. Eph 2:8,9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. Gal 2:16 clearly says we are saved by the faith OF Jesus, not our faith! We are saved by Hís love and Hís grace while we WERE still sinners! We are saved by His love, Hís grace (Eph 2:8,9) and Hís faith.. not our faith! This is the gospel of Jesus Christ! We as heirs can only believe. Phil 3:9 'And be found in him, not having my own righteousness, which is of the law, but what is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith'. Titus 3:4-7 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Yes, Hís faith, not ours, regardless which translation we use! The Aramaic and Greek is clearly "the faith OF Jesus, the Messiah". It is not simply our faith, but Hís - the faithfulness of Jesus to fulfill the Father's pleasure in His life and the sacrafice for our sin in his death. Salvation is found in the "faith of Jesus". Rom 6 for those who think we can live a life He gracefully has taken us out. Rom 3:23 - NO good news. Rom 3:24 - Good news! Rom 4:25 .. who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification. 👌 It's a done deal! I only have to believe in Him and what He has accomplished fór and ín me at the cross. Only thén will I experience His goodness and salvation. Thank you Jesus! 1Cor 1:30 'But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God - righteousness & sanctification and redemption'. This SAVE is not to 'one day go to heaven or hell' as millions believe, no it is the correcting of our souls, our thoughts.. as we áll got alianated in our minds when Adam fall into a fallen mindset! We all forgot the Rock we were hewn. Truth and grace has come with Jesus. Matt 18:11 For the Son of man came to save [from the penalty of eternal death] that which was lost. Ampl. Matthew 18:11 For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost. NKJV -thát, not whó. Indeéd the great exchange as someone once so beautifully said ! And all the sheep say Amen! 🐑 👏
We can point to many reasons why universalism isn’t accepted by most Christians, but I believe foundationally, someone or perhaps many Christians whom we admired throughout our life taught us that hell is eternal, our sins justly send us there, and because God is just he must punish sinners, most of us accepted it as the unvarnished word of god with no other alternative or worse, rejected it out of a fear of being rejected by those we love and admire or being labeled as someone who is opposed to god. Having read and listened to several universalists, most having been featured on this channel, nothing has given me reason to doubt the fidelity of a robust universalist faith. Our faith and hope and love is not in a doctrine (even of God) but rather a gospel pulse within us for a reconciled humanity and oneness with God and our neighbors.
You don't think it's weird that God would allow all three major branches of Christianity to predominantly teach that ET is true for almost 2000 years? Missionaries have shared the Gospel in various countries teaching ET. Why would God allow that if ET is false? Still until this day most average Christians don't even know universalism exists. Some deity you have
@@LogosTheos god allows islam n communism and hinduism n mormonism...he allows error to be taught for his own purpose and reasons...ur point dont disprove christian universalism..beside it was generally taught in the 1st 500 yrs of church history
I think it is a way to feel more important than others. It is like making up a "secret club" as a kid and the only members are those you like best (Calvinists??) but then claiming that people are free to join if they want but make the choice not do so (Arminians??). The Church is not that much different.
The mainstream evangelical view is, YOU SAVE YOURSELF by praying the right prayer, having the right convictions, being humble enough, etc. These are all good things, but you aren't more powerful than God; you can't control the outcome here. Anything else is just putting yourself in charge of the decision. Of course, mainstream protestants never want to own up to this; instead, they have all kinds of mental gymnastics to work around it.
No my friend, you have it all wrong on what you believe the Protestant believers believe. Btw, it's not what they or the Cathl believers or any other group believe, "but what does the word of God say" ? Scriptures have it that NO human being can ever save himself, that we ALL are influence by the corrupted seed of Adam, but we also KNOW that Jesus was sent as the LAST Adam to undo all the wrong that was done by Adam! Rom 5:12-21 The entire human race are saved by the blood of Jesus, whether people believe this eternal truth or not! Not as you believe the Protestant people have it 'by praying the right prayer, having the right convictions, being humble enough etc', but simply because of what the Father has done in giving His only beloved Son to be the sacrafice for us ALL. And our unbelieve can or will never influence what Jesus has done on mankind’s behalf, it can only influence óur life while in the flesh! Romans 3:23,24 for ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified FREELY by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.. Also Eph 2:8,9 For by GRACE you have been saved through faith*, and that NOT OF YOURSELVES; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. And this FAITH is not your faith or mine, but the faith of Jesus. It is a GIFT. Yes, Hís faith, not ours, regardless which translation we use! The Aramaic and Greek is clearly "the faith OF Jesus, the Messiah". It is not simply our faith, but Hís - the faithfulness of Jesus to fulfill the Father's pleasure in His life and the sacrafice for our sin in his death. Salvation is found in the "faith of Jesus". Trust you are born again as John 3 have it, in order to understand the revelations of God’s Spirit. Peace.
That image by Saint Isaac the Syrian really puts in perspective the idea that our sins somehow affect the honor and justice of God in such a way that it can only be atoned by the death of the Son. It is so petty to think that our actions, however bad and evil, hold such power of God.
Agreed. It's actually kind of insulting to God, to assume He can't make an independent decision here or that He is swayed so easily by anything we do. There is still right and wrong but I don't think God goes in a corner and cries or loses His mind just because we missed the mark. He is patient enough and wise enough to guide us where we need to go. It may take awhile and might involve the school of hard knocks but God can see us through anything. Precisely because He is God. Just my view.
@@mattr.1887 yes that’s good. It’s as though we are playing a chess game against God and we think we have made some shocking move He hasn’t already foreseen.
well i feel i want to earn my salvation although im a wretch,I want people to suffer for the evil they have done...BUT God is bigger than my puny thoughts and i trust he will save everyone in the end. (including me).
Example of true belief, true power of God and what true Christians believe, live and do. This is how all pastors need to teach. Hell is VERY real and it's forever and ever. You are deceived by false beliefs because you have demons in you and you need Deliverance. ua-cam.com/video/ZeJsXHuBqz8/v-deo.html
We underestimate God and what He can do in a person, no matter how horrible the person or the deeds they commit. God has time to work with. He has ages to come (Eph. 2:7), and is not limited by our limited thinking.God is Sovereign. He knows who will receive the just recompense for evil. We have to believe He knows what to do, and that there is a purpose and plan for everything and everyone. He finishes what He starts. He will not fail.
Are we really so independent that we can point the finger without suffering lfe's struggles together? Flesh and blood is not the enemy. What treasure can be stored up? The infinite is one in a finite #. The finite is one in an infinite #. Jesus prayed that we be one and so aren't we? Thank you Mr. Addison Hodges Hart.
It's the sadism in human beings. You can see it in some early church fathers, who say part of the enjoyment of heaven will be the suffering in hell of sinners. It's the dysfunctional ego which says in order to be right I need someone to be wrong.
I don't think you can discount the institutional imperative. If a certain teaching leads to more people coming under your control, then institutions will arise that reinforce that teaching, and history/dogma is written by the winners. Until people generally are prepared to walk in the footsteps of Jesus, and to relinquish formulaic religion, we will continue to see support for traditional teachings, including Calvinism and Augustinianism where we can strike a bargain to allow us entry into heaven.
Traditions that are held to are as only as good as what it is that they’re upholding. Since we’re creatures of habit, tradition itself is ingrained in human nature.
Another factor is this: I feel guilty of an infinite sin which can only be punished by eternal conscious torment. I don't know what the sin is, but I know I must have committed it sometime. I'm like a character in a Flannery O'Connor short story or Dostoyevsky novel--I constantly feel an existential guilt in the face of the universe. Nothing can rid me of the guilt--my confessions aren't honest or sincere enough, my taking of the sacrament is a sacrilege, and no priest can absolve me. This guilt seems to be part of the human condition, and we create religions and psychologies to rid ourselves of this guilt. But nothing works. Universalism can't possibly be true because some part of me believes my infinite sin against God blocks me from Heaven. Until I am psychologically ready to understand God's love and mercy, I will never internalize universalism.
@@2b-coeur BTW, Lutheranism doesn't work either. Simply saying "I have been baptized" or hearing the pastor's declaration of forgiveness doesn't solve the problem. As long as the possibility of mortal sin exists, then I believe I have committed it. The only solution is God never having created Hell in the first place.
@@stuartkenny3050 or Hell simply being the state of separation from God, which eventually leads people to recognise their errors and return to Him! George Macdonald in Unspoken Sermons (available online) has a good sermon on the unforgivable/mortal sin - summary, it's not that arbitrarily this one sin can't be pardoned, it's that if you harbor unforgiveness, you simply can't feel forgiven yourself
@@stuartkenny3050 There is no mention in Scripture of Hell ever being created. The place where it is widely believed by brainwashed and bamboozled Christians, that most of creation will spend all of eternity, is not even mentioned whatsoever as being created in our Bibles. And, no mention of hell in the Jewish Torah or Talmud, and also no mention of hell in the Greek Septuigent (which is the Greek Old Testament). And there is no word in the Hebrew language for an afterlife in an underworld/netherworld. The Jewish religion, which is called Judaism, NEVER taught about a Hell, nor the existence of an afterlife underworld/netherworld. For a place that's supposedly in the Old Testament, they sure never taught about it. "Sheol" is a Hebrew word meaning death or grave. Jews in general didn't believe in Hell traditionally. Jesus is a Jew and he didn't believe in an underworld, and he NEVER said the word Hell. Hell didn't even become a word until 325 AD. Hel was the name of a Scandinavian pagan goddess with a belief in an underworld. Ancient Scandinavian tribes kept invading ancient Latin Italy on and off again for over 300 years. Sounds like the Latin church borrowed the Hell belief from the Scandinavians. Society based on a place called Hell is a Latin invention and then made into a comedy play called Dantes Inferno. The word Hell never existed in all the letters and manuscripts that later became the Bible. Using the aforementioned letters and manuscripts, the ancient Latin Church created the first complete Bible called the Latin Vulgate in 440 AD. And they inserted the word Hell into the Vulgate one-hundred and eleven times when it never existed before. Hades was the name of a Greek pagan god of the underworld/netherworld. Both Hell and Hades are names coming from a pagan god and a pagan goddess. The first Commandment: There shall be no other gods before Me. The Apostle Paul never preached a different gospel other than the one he himself always preached. Paul never mentioned Hell anywhere in all his 13 letters that make up most of the New Testament. By including Hell, mainstream Christianity is preaching a different gospel than the one the Apostle Paul preached! The Bible speaks of lies and slander within it's pages of (Jeremiah 8:8) as well as in (Jeremiah 23:36). According to Scripture, the Bible is not inerrant. Not even one Bible translation agrees with how many times the word Hell should be in it! I hope this helps.
I think studying world literature and anthropology would go far in dispelling the notion that existential guilt is an essential part of the human condition.
Listening to AHH talk about Justice made something click with me. What is Justice if not the conviction that something has gone wrong and MUST be set right? Even a purely retributive "eye for an eye" model of Justice assumes that will somehow balance the scales. But the idea of Eternal Punishment entails that somethings can NEVER be set right, that the scales can NEVER be balanced. If ETC is true, then Justice is ultimately doomed to fail.
It is terrible to think about, to have to deal with the most horrible villains of history. Imagine seeing Hitler, (very cliche I know) or Stalin, Nero, Genghis khan, Pol Pot, Moa Zedong, Muhammad, the list goes on and to see them in paradise. But honestly that’s not justice, to send them into oblivion. Jordan Peterson laid it out the best, you’d be surprised, but there’s a little bit, if not more than a little bit of Hitler in all of us. We should be hoping that level of mercy exists. And justice is not made to do away with, but rather to bring us back to what’s right.
Watch this with your eyes closed and he sounds just like his brother (David Bentley Hart) incase you didn't make the connection. Even the way he pauses and meanders a little, its exactly like DBH 😂😂
I tend to think maybe people know more than we realize. It says we do not fight against flesh and blood. Some times I think this world is moving at a rythme and we are dancing to that rythme. There is nothing we can do to change that. Some times speaking such things could result in a lot of bad things. Maybe people do know, but do not speak such things because that is just the sort of nature of things. It's so easy to assume we are the only ones who have it all figured out. No matter where you are in life.
@@doriesse824 This God: Exo 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD? Do you think these words are just about the flesh? Remember, Jesus says "The words that I speak are spirit" This God: Eze 14:9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I THE LORD have deceived that prophet Oh and this God: 1Kiings 22:23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a LYING SPIRIT in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee. ah yes, and this God: Isa 6:10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed. Isa 6:11 Then said I, Lord, how long? Why would Isaiah ask "how long?" if it is not God who blinds? You HAVE to believe the scriptures. They speak plainly but you all try to explain it away because you want to take credit for having "open eyes". But it wasn't you Dories, it's all of God. Take credit for nothing. check iswasandwillbe website... it's a lot of content but it will be a blessing. SPecifically read "After the counsel of His own will" and see that God controls EVERYTHING. Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh ALL THINGS after the counsel of his own will Do you believe it's all things? or just some things?
@@rg442 You didn't answer my question as asked. I'm asking which God, as in the one Jesus called "the ruler of this world" that He had come to cast out, or the Heavenly Father who sent Him into the world to do so? Which one of those two are you saying did that?
@@doriesse824 The verses I quoted weren't clear? hmm... not sure I know how to answer more clearly than the scriptures themselves. They pretty much all say... "The Lord..." Ephesians 1:11 is super clear... God works all things according to the counsel of His will... surely you don't think Eph 1:11 refers to anyone else but the Father in heaven, right?
At the end reckoning of all things, we are all individuals. Not available in 6-packs, 12--packs, or any numerical collective. Trust the ultimately transcendent mercy of the One True Creator.
I feel that if I tell most of my friends what I think, they'll just try and "correct me"....I wrote a poem I'd like to share, please tell me what you think.
Unitarianism and Universalism, which emphasize reason, individual freedom, and the unity of all religions, have always been minority movements within Christianity. Several factors contribute to their relatively limited popularity: 1. _Historical persecution_: Unitarians and Universalists faced persecution and ostracism from mainstream Christianity, particularly during the Inquisition and the Reformation. This led to a decline in their numbers and influence. 2. _Orthodox doctrine_: The emphasis on reason and individual interpretation of scripture challenges traditional Christian doctrine and authority, making it difficult for some to accept. 3. _Lack of evangelism_: Unitarians and Universalists have historically focused on individual spiritual growth rather than large-scale evangelism and conversion. 4. _Merger with other movements_: The Unitarian Universalist Association (UUA) merged with other liberal religious groups, diluting the distinctiveness of Unitarianism and Universalism. 5. _Cultural and societal factors_: The appeal of Unitarianism and Universalism may be limited by cultural and societal factors, such as the desire for clear authority and doctrine in religion. 6. _Misconceptions and lack of understanding_: Some people may view Unitarianism and Universalism as "watered-down" Christianity or misunderstand their beliefs, leading to a lack of interest. 7. _Growth in other forms_: While traditional Unitarian and Universalist churches may not be growing rapidly, their ideas and influences can be seen in other liberal Christian movements and progressive religious communities. Despite these factors, Unitarianism and Universalism continue to thrive in various forms, offering a unique and inclusive approach to Christianity that resonates with many people.
i think it’s not widely accepted because most people can read. “but the blasphemy of the holy ghost SHALL NEVER BE FORGIVEN.” “if you forgive not men their trespasses NEITHER WILL MY FATHER FORGIVE YOURS.” that was easy.
doesnt disprove anything..blasphemy of the holy ghost is refusing to repent so ny uts nature it cant be forgiven but ALL will the Bible says (every knee shall bow and confess )...ALL people will eventually forgive those who wronged them whether now or in eternity
Hell is a state both physical and psychological. A scenario on the Earth as a result describes a reality as a consequence of this. It is the perception of reality and the consequence of this. The same with the kingdom of God.
How many brothers does DBH have xd. No but in all seriousness I believe it because of many factors culture,accpetance by the people around them, also it doesn't help some UVS completely flung justice to side and embraced love and finally experince (agnostic about that but meh). Also Andrew Hronrich had a decent answer to this too it was "they mad because we're living a double life that the christian in question want it" so now they hope to see those bitter and want us to suffer for it.
The title of this vid clip is wrong. Universalism is for sure not unpopular in Christianity, as we that are born again very well know that ALL has been saved by the blood of Jesus, just as ALL has fall in the corrupted seed of Adam! Zech 3:4 And the celestial messenger said to those who were standing before him, 'Remove the filthy garments from him'. And to him he said, 'Behold, I have taken your iniquity away from you, and I will clothe you with righteousness'. (This prophecy has been fulfilled at the cross of Jesus). Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we WERE still sinners, Christ died for us. Eph 2:8,9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. Gal 2:16 clearly says we are saved by the faith OF Jesus, not our faith! We are saved by Hís love and Hís grace while we WERE still sinners! We are saved by His love, Hís grace (Eph 2:8,9) and Hís faith.. not our faith! This is the gospel of Jesus Christ! We as heirs can only believe. Phil 3:9 'And be found in him, not having my own righteousness, which is of the law, but what is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith'. Titus 3:4-7 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Yes, Hís faith, not ours, regardless which translation we use! The Aramaic and Greek is clearly "the faith OF Jesus, the Messiah". It is not simply our faith, but Hís - the faithfulness of Jesus to fulfill the Father's pleasure in His life and the sacrafice for our sin in his death. Salvation is found in the "faith of Jesus". Rom 6 for those who think we can live a life He gracefully has taken us out. Rom 3:23 - NO good news. Rom 3:24 - Good news! Rom 4:25 .. who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification. 👌 It's a done deal! I only have to believe in Him and what He has accomplished fór and ín me at the cross. Only thén will I experience His goodness and salvation. Thank you Jesus! 1Cor 1:30 'But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God - righteousness & sanctification and redemption'. This SAVE is not to 'one day go to heaven or hell' as millions believe, no it is the correcting of our souls, our thoughts.. as we áll got alianated in our minds when Adam fall into a fallen mindset! We all forgot the Rock we were hewn. Truth and grace has come with Jesus. Matt 18:11 For the Son of man came to save [from the penalty of eternal death] that which was lost. Ampl. Matthew 18:11 For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost. NKJV -thát, not whó. Indeéd the great exchange as someone once so beautifully said ! And all the sheep say Amen! 🐑 👏
The short and true answer is because it just isn't true. You must desire to be free from sin and regenerated in order to be saved. Most simply don't desire to be free from sin. What part of "No man comes to the father except through me" means "People can come to the father without faith in my deity"?
It is true. NOBODY desires to be free from sin. No one is seeking God, not one (Romans 3:10). Romans 11:32 explicitly states that God causes all mankind to be disobedient (that includes you and I) so that he may have mercy on all mankind, and salvation is entirely the result of God’s mercy, it cannot be earned by any man in any way, shape, or form. If someone boasts by thinking that they desire goodness and others don’t, that’s self-righteousness…
Re Coulter.. Jesus was born under the law to fulfil it on the Jewish people's behalf. You cannot hold on to the words of Jesus, as He lived in the Old Test. The cross of Jesus has made everything new and fresh. Everything means nothing excluded. "No man can come to the Father" .. still before the cross. The entire human race were included in all the cross-events. So this means when Jesus "went to the Father" He took us all with Him! And now He is living in and thru us, but the world is still in a deep sleep the fall of Adam has brought mankind into, so we need to awake them with truth. The Father sees us wrapped up in Christ, not because of any decision from óur side, but simply because of His LOVE for us ALL.
Speaking of Hitler, would not orthodox Christianity hold that any devout Jew who died in one of Hitler's concentration camps transmigrate from a mortal torturous situation into an immortal one? That doesn't seem right, does it? Meanwhile, in this example, the Nazi torturer who repents and accepts Jesus with his final breath goes to heaven while his victims go to hell. No, it has never seemed right to me.
Yes. There is only one reason why universalism is unpopular - Bible is way too clear about endless torment, way too clear, very unfortunately and Christians, no matter how much they hate it, feel that they have no other options but to accept what the Bible says. No true, born-again, filled-with-love Christian would ever willfully decide to believe in endless torment. I hear it on a regular basis from Christians when I talk to them about universalism, how they wish I am right but the Bible is too clear about the subject, so they will stay away from the universalism.
I'd say your probably just reading a poor translation of Scripture. Consider getting the Concordant Literal New Testament and the Concordant Version of the Old Testament.
*"Why is Universalism Unpopular in Christianity?"* Is it because Universalism requires us to ignore about half the Bible? (P.S. The alternative to Universalism is not eternal conscious torment. ECT isn't in the Bible, either.)
We are all horrible. Especially me. The problem with your argument is that many do not want God. Evil is the result of man turning away from God. Choice. God loves us. Therefore if we don't want him He loves us so much that he leaves us where we want. For some that's hell.
@@ttownsupreme2183 why ascribe fault to anyone but ourselves. Christ has allotted us an opportunity through Him to be deified and perfected. The fault would be ascribed to original sin. Although we live in corruption it is impossible for us not to. Through repentance and the mysteries we can rest assured that we at least travel towards perfection. With our own devices we lack the ability because we are corrupt. I don't think it's a matter of fault.
@@hesicast Your not listening and your ECT co conditioning we are horrible,evil,and have sinned against a perfect righteous God mantra.Im familiar with it because I was in the ECT camp for many years The only reason we are able to sin in the first place is because we have a sin nature passed down from Adam and because of that is death. Romans 5 addresses thais perfectly how this all came through one man and is fixed all through Jesus Christ
@@ttownsupreme2183 what is ECT? Also you just repeated what I said. I said the original sin you said Adam. Same same. Also you brought up Romans 5. So what your saying is that everyone becomes sin free? That repentance is only necessary once? I am not following you. Help me understand clearly.
@@hesicast ECT is eternal conscious torment. And Im telling you that the only reason we can sin in the first place is because of the sin nature that was passed down from Adam. No one in the OT knew what hell was as we understood it. It has been mistranslated and what was known as hell is actually Sheol or the Grave. Romans 5 is very clear that sin and death came to all because of one man just like justification and life to all because of Christ Those who accept Jesus Christ as savior have everlasting life.Those who do not have no sin debt owed to God but must pay for theres in an age abiding punishment....it is not forever. Jesus Christ is the savior of all men
We love contest. We want to win and others to lose. I fear some of our errors are rooted here. God wants everyone to be part of His win.
Exactly right!! We gravitate towards this sort of idea of “justice.” And when horrible people commit particularly horrible crimes, especially crimes that involve children, we want them to “pay,” to “suffer,” for what they have done - to the uttermost, if you will. We don’t want them to be forgiven. And we can’t even imagine a world or a scenario wherein they would ever repent for what they have done. And, in some cases, we can’t imagine where even their doing so would be “enough” to make up for the horrid nature of their crime. Our egos also like to feel “special.” But not just special, more special (or “better”) than someone else. As Peter Hiett has often put it “we need and eternity of losers, in order to feel like a winner” (or something like that). The Bible tells us that there are “many called, but few chosen,” and we simply see ourselves in the chosen (or elect) category. And we assume (or have been taught to believe) that the “few” who are chosen have been chosen for salvation. Meaning the rest must be forever lost, unsaved. We don’t realize that the few who are chosen are those who are chosen to labor in the field, wherein the entire field gets harvested. (The harvest truly is plenteous, but the labourers are few! - Mat 9:37)
Nice!
While this god sounds like nothing more than the believer's ego fuelled by indoctrination.
I agree will all but 'horrible people who commit horrible crimes'.
How about people who commit horrible crimes.
I truly believe a person can only give what they have. What else do they have to give? So, a person who commits a horrible crime and gives unbearable pain to others must be in unbearable pain themselves. What does a person in unbearable pain need? Compassion and healing, not judgement and retribution.
These people are, after all, created in the image of God. How then can then be horrible people? Damaged, corrupted, dangerous; yes. But, as childeren of God, worthy of our compassion.
Maybe one of the reasons Universalism is unpopular, and why sometimes even Universalists struggle, is because, if the worst among us can change then what excuse does anyone else have for not changing.
If the world's worst criminals changed then society would have to change its view of them, society would have to change. Perhaps society finds it easier to label some people as unable to change and so not have to change itself.
@Ben I don't think we disagree. The "pain" of others isn't always obvious. In fact, there are some who take pleasure in the suffering of others. They actually "enjoy" hurting the people they hurt. So we tend to "enjoy" seeing them reap what they have sewn. And, most of the time, leave no space for grace and the healing power of Christ. Especially of we believe that, though he CAN, he WON'T... UNLESS we want him to... and we assume many simply don't "want" to be healed.
@@Chrissiela I don't think we disagree either. Just sharing what I have learned.
I don't believe anyone takes pleasure in the suffering of others, even though they make think they do themselves.
I rather believe that the suffering of others provides temporary, and ultimately false, relief from the pain they find themselves in. They take pleasure in this relief.
Kind of like animal sacrifice, it never cleased us of sin, but having a scapegoat gave us some relief from our guilt.
Do we really enjoy seeing others suffer for the pain they have caused, or do we feel relief from our pain when we see them suffer for the pain they have caused?
I believe their suffering makes us feel better about our suffering which actually makes us no different from them. We are doing exactly the same thing to them as what they have done to others, a perpetual cycle of suffering, all so we feel better about our own suffering.
I think many people hold to an unending hell because they believe God hates them, and they hate themselves, and they see no hope of that ever changing.
I think a lot of mainstream Christians secretly despise their own faith. They feel they deserve a special reward for all the “hard work” they put in. It never seems to occur to them that following God is its own reward here and now.
Or verses like Matthew 25 46?
@@KSSBG yeah which is highly mistranslated to begin with.. it's not retributive, it's corrective Ionian punishment
@@williamlorimer8927 yep
I sure hope as someone who backslid, I hope it's started for me early so I don't have to face that consequence, I used to fear it but slowly (I think) I'm going to not fear it so much but more fear of how it must make Him feel that I did..
I'm not sure exactly but I hope so.. truly I do, I don't want to make Him have to do that anymore than He has to...
Like a earthly dad having to correct a child..
I'm a feelings type person and I struggle with it, not to feel sorry for myself BUT feel sorry I hurt Him instead...
Could certainly use prayer, I really miss how He touched me the way no one else could..
All I can hope for is this is loving chastisement!
If only I had been taught as a child and as a teenager that God is our gracious, merciful, loving Heavenly Father who never ceases to love us rather than this portrayal of God as being a stern 'just' being whose wrath needed to be appeased by following certain rules / achieving a certain level of performance ! It makes me angry to think back at how that maligning of God confused and harmed me throughout several decades.
I think it's all just part of the process of coming home. People have thought terribly about God for so long, even for centuries before Christ, that they have a hard time accepting anything other than the monstrous picture they have inherited. It truly is a form of child abuse. I still struggle with that ingrained anxiety every day. Yet even with that pestering voice whispering to me daily "God isn't actually that good" I've chosen that the God who is love will reign in the lives of my children. Even if I'm wrong, that condemnation can't be passed onto them because I'll be the one that taught them that.
@@Jordan-hz1wr i'm so glad the cycle will end with you as well! i made a similar decision for my future children.
this picture of a vindictive God is sooo insidious and ugly.. i can only imagine how mentally & emotionally & spiritually healthy the kids will be who grow up free from its shadow!
The concept of the "torturing God" has always reminded me of that Twilight Zone episode about the little 6-year-old mutant who sends people to "the cornfield" on a whim if they incur his wrath.
I've always wondered if Jerome Bixby, who wrote the short story that the Twilight Zone episode is based on, was not parodying and critiquing orthodox Christianity.
Thank you for this. Many people have said that my catholic family won’t be saved. I was really afraid of loosing them.But Now I know they’re saved
It's ridiculous sometimes that as believers we can't even get it right and find the real truth and there is so much confusion and I'm correct and your the one wrong amoungst us, it can get embarrassing
@@KSSBG It's all of God. It's one of the ways He will glorify Himself. By bringing together what is seemingly irreconcilable. This is the "power" that Paul speaks of in 2Ti 1:7.
Re Damon..
Zech 3:4 And the celestial messenger said to those who were standing before him, 'Remove the filthy garments from him'. And to him he said, 'Behold, I have taken your iniquity away from you, and I will clothe you with righteousness'.
(This prophecy has been fulfilled at the cross of Jesus).
Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we WERE still sinners, Christ died for us.
Eph 2:8,9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Gal 2:16 clearly says we are saved by the faith OF Jesus, not our faith! We are saved by Hís love and Hís grace while we WERE still sinners!
We are saved by His love, Hís grace (Eph 2:8,9) and Hís faith.. not our faith! This is the gospel of Jesus Christ! We as heirs can only believe.
Phil 3:9 'And be found in him, not having my own righteousness, which is of the law, but what is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith'.
Titus 3:4-7 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Yes, Hís faith, not ours, regardless which translation we use! The Aramaic and Greek is clearly "the faith OF Jesus, the Messiah". It is not simply our faith, but Hís - the faithfulness of Jesus to fulfill the Father's pleasure in His life and the sacrafice for our sin in his death. Salvation is found in the "faith of Jesus".
Rom 6 for those who think we can live a life He gracefully has taken us out.
Rom 3:23 - NO good news.
Rom 3:24 - Good news!
Rom 4:25 .. who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification. 👌
It's a done deal! I only have to believe in Him and what He has accomplished fór and ín me at the cross. Only thén will I experience His goodness and salvation. Thank you Jesus!
1Cor 1:30 'But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God - righteousness & sanctification and redemption'.
This SAVE is not to 'one day go to heaven or hell' as millions believe, no it is the correcting of our souls, our thoughts.. as we áll got alianated in our minds when Adam fall into a fallen mindset! We all forgot the Rock we were hewn.
Truth and grace has come with Jesus.
Matt 18:11 For the Son of man came to save [from the penalty of eternal death] that which was lost. Ampl.
Matthew 18:11
For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost. NKJV
-thát, not whó.
Indeéd the great exchange as someone once so beautifully said ! And all the sheep say Amen! 🐑 👏
We can point to many reasons why universalism isn’t accepted by most Christians, but I believe foundationally, someone or perhaps many Christians whom we admired throughout our life taught us that hell is eternal, our sins justly send us there, and because God is just he must punish sinners, most of us accepted it as the unvarnished word of god with no other alternative or worse, rejected it out of a fear of being rejected by those we love and admire or being labeled as someone who is opposed to god. Having read and listened to several universalists, most having been featured on this channel, nothing has given me reason to doubt the fidelity of a robust universalist faith. Our faith and hope and love is not in a doctrine (even of God) but rather a gospel pulse within us for a reconciled humanity and oneness with God and our neighbors.
You don't think it's weird that God would allow all three major branches of Christianity to predominantly teach that ET is true for almost 2000 years? Missionaries have shared the Gospel in various countries teaching ET. Why would God allow that if ET is false? Still until this day most average Christians don't even know universalism exists. Some deity you have
@@LogosTheos god allows islam n communism and hinduism n mormonism...he allows error to be taught for his own purpose and reasons...ur point dont disprove christian universalism..beside it was generally taught in the 1st 500 yrs of church history
I think it is a way to feel more important than others. It is like making up a "secret club" as a kid and the only members are those you like best (Calvinists??) but then claiming that people are free to join if they want but make the choice not do so (Arminians??). The Church is not that much different.
What if judgment is learning heartfelt? All will be saved. Love you all
The mainstream evangelical view is, YOU SAVE YOURSELF by praying the right prayer, having the right convictions, being humble enough, etc. These are all good things, but you aren't more powerful than God; you can't control the outcome here. Anything else is just putting yourself in charge of the decision.
Of course, mainstream protestants never want to own up to this; instead, they have all kinds of mental gymnastics to work around it.
No my friend, you have it all wrong on what you believe the Protestant believers believe. Btw, it's not what they or the Cathl believers or any other group believe, "but what does the word of God say" ?
Scriptures have it that NO human being can ever save himself, that we ALL are influence by the corrupted seed of Adam, but we also KNOW that Jesus was sent as the LAST Adam to undo all the wrong that was done by Adam! Rom 5:12-21
The entire human race are saved by the blood of Jesus, whether people believe this eternal truth or not! Not as you believe the Protestant people have it 'by praying the right prayer, having the right convictions, being humble enough etc', but simply because of what the Father has done in giving His only beloved Son to be the sacrafice for us ALL. And our unbelieve can or will never influence what Jesus has done on mankind’s behalf, it can only influence óur life while in the flesh!
Romans 3:23,24
for ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified FREELY by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus..
Also Eph 2:8,9
For by GRACE you have been saved through faith*, and that NOT OF YOURSELVES; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.
And this FAITH is not your faith or mine, but the faith of Jesus. It is a GIFT.
Yes, Hís faith, not ours, regardless which translation we use! The Aramaic and Greek is clearly "the faith OF Jesus, the Messiah". It is not simply our faith, but Hís - the faithfulness of Jesus to fulfill the Father's pleasure in His life and the sacrafice for our sin in his death. Salvation is found in the "faith of Jesus".
Trust you are born again as John 3 have it, in order to understand the revelations of God’s Spirit. Peace.
So true 👍
That image by Saint Isaac the Syrian really puts in perspective the idea that our sins somehow affect the honor and justice of God in such a way that it can only be atoned by the death of the Son. It is so petty to think that our actions, however bad and evil, hold such power of God.
Agreed. It's actually kind of insulting to God, to assume He can't make an independent decision here or that He is swayed so easily by anything we do. There is still right and wrong but I don't think God goes in a corner and cries or loses His mind just because we missed the mark. He is patient enough and wise enough to guide us where we need to go. It may take awhile and might involve the school of hard knocks but God can see us through anything. Precisely because He is God. Just my view.
@@mattr.1887 yes that’s good. It’s as though we are playing a chess game against God and we think we have made some shocking move He hasn’t already foreseen.
well i feel i want to earn my salvation although im a wretch,I want people to suffer for the evil they have done...BUT God is bigger than my puny thoughts and i trust he will save everyone in the end.
(including me).
Example of true belief, true power of God and what true Christians believe, live and do. This is how all pastors need to teach. Hell is VERY real and it's forever and ever. You are deceived by false beliefs because you have demons in you and you need Deliverance. ua-cam.com/video/ZeJsXHuBqz8/v-deo.html
The reason you can't trust Jesus and experience peace is because you have demons. Deliverance is very real, and I have experienced it many many times.
@@mygodisawesomeinpower4349 he has demons ?.lol
@@TheBlueCream dude was over thinking that one like crazy lol
We underestimate God and what He can do in a person, no matter how horrible the person or the deeds they commit. God has time to work with. He has ages to come (Eph. 2:7), and is not limited by our limited thinking.God is Sovereign. He knows who will receive the just recompense for evil. We have to believe He knows what to do, and that there is a purpose and plan for everything and everyone. He finishes what He starts. He will not fail.
Are we really so independent that we can point the finger without suffering lfe's struggles together?
Flesh and blood is not the enemy.
What treasure can be stored up?
The infinite is one in a finite #. The finite is one in an infinite #.
Jesus prayed that we be one and so aren't we?
Thank you Mr. Addison Hodges Hart.
It's the sadism in human beings. You can see it in some early church fathers, who say part of the enjoyment of heaven will be the suffering in hell of sinners. It's the dysfunctional ego which says in order to be right I need someone to be wrong.
Many early church fathers were universalists tho
I don't think you can discount the institutional imperative. If a certain teaching leads to more people coming under your control, then institutions will arise that reinforce that teaching, and history/dogma is written by the winners. Until people generally are prepared to walk in the footsteps of Jesus, and to relinquish formulaic religion, we will continue to see support for traditional teachings, including Calvinism and Augustinianism where we can strike a bargain to allow us entry into heaven.
Tradition is like quick drying cement
God is unchanging and unmoving.
Traditions that are held to are as only as good as what it is that they’re upholding. Since we’re creatures of habit, tradition itself is ingrained in human nature.
Another factor is this: I feel guilty of an infinite sin which can only be punished by eternal conscious torment. I don't know what the sin is, but I know I must have committed it sometime. I'm like a character in a Flannery O'Connor short story or Dostoyevsky novel--I constantly feel an existential guilt in the face of the universe. Nothing can rid me of the guilt--my confessions aren't honest or sincere enough, my taking of the sacrament is a sacrilege, and no priest can absolve me. This guilt seems to be part of the human condition, and we create religions and psychologies to rid ourselves of this guilt. But nothing works. Universalism can't possibly be true because some part of me believes my infinite sin against God blocks me from Heaven.
Until I am psychologically ready to understand God's love and mercy, I will never internalize universalism.
yeah.. i had, and God's still ridding me of, a deeply deeply ingrained guilt for just existing. original sin, i guess basically.
@@2b-coeur BTW, Lutheranism doesn't work either. Simply saying "I have been baptized" or hearing the pastor's declaration of forgiveness doesn't solve the problem. As long as the possibility of mortal sin exists, then I believe I have committed it.
The only solution is God never having created Hell in the first place.
@@stuartkenny3050 or Hell simply being the state of separation from God, which eventually leads people to recognise their errors and return to Him!
George Macdonald in Unspoken Sermons (available online) has a good sermon on the unforgivable/mortal sin - summary, it's not that arbitrarily this one sin can't be pardoned, it's that if you harbor unforgiveness, you simply can't feel forgiven yourself
@@stuartkenny3050 There is no mention in Scripture of Hell ever being created. The place where it is widely believed by brainwashed and bamboozled Christians, that most of creation will spend all of eternity, is not even mentioned whatsoever as being created in our Bibles.
And, no mention of hell in the Jewish Torah or Talmud, and also no mention of hell in the Greek Septuigent (which is the Greek Old Testament).
And there is no word in the Hebrew language for an afterlife in an underworld/netherworld.
The Jewish religion, which is called Judaism, NEVER taught about a Hell, nor the existence of an afterlife underworld/netherworld.
For a place that's supposedly in the Old Testament, they sure never taught about it. "Sheol" is a Hebrew word meaning death or grave. Jews in general didn't believe in Hell traditionally.
Jesus is a Jew and he didn't believe in an underworld, and he NEVER said the word Hell.
Hell didn't even become a word until 325 AD. Hel was the name of a Scandinavian pagan goddess with a belief in an underworld. Ancient Scandinavian tribes kept invading ancient Latin Italy on and off again for over 300 years. Sounds like the Latin church borrowed the Hell belief from the Scandinavians.
Society based on a place called Hell is a Latin invention and then made into a comedy play called Dantes Inferno.
The word Hell never existed in all the letters and manuscripts that later became the Bible. Using the aforementioned letters and manuscripts, the ancient Latin Church created the first complete Bible called the Latin Vulgate in 440 AD. And they inserted the word Hell into the Vulgate one-hundred and eleven times when it never existed before. Hades was the name of a Greek pagan god of the underworld/netherworld. Both Hell and Hades are names coming from a pagan god and a pagan goddess.
The first Commandment: There shall be no other gods before Me.
The Apostle Paul never preached a different gospel other than the one he himself always preached.
Paul never mentioned Hell anywhere in all his 13 letters that make up most of the New Testament.
By including Hell, mainstream Christianity is preaching a different gospel than the one the Apostle Paul preached! The Bible speaks of lies and slander within it's pages of (Jeremiah 8:8) as well as in (Jeremiah 23:36).
According to Scripture, the Bible is not inerrant.
Not even one Bible translation agrees with how many times the word Hell should be in it!
I hope this helps.
I think studying world literature and anthropology would go far in dispelling the notion that existential guilt is an essential part of the human condition.
The early Church condemned Universalism as heresy. That is sufficient for me.
Listening to AHH talk about Justice made something click with me. What is Justice if not the conviction that something has gone wrong and MUST be set right? Even a purely retributive "eye for an eye" model of Justice assumes that will somehow balance the scales. But the idea of Eternal Punishment entails that somethings can NEVER be set right, that the scales can NEVER be balanced.
If ETC is true, then Justice is ultimately doomed to fail.
It is terrible to think about, to have to deal with the most horrible villains of history. Imagine seeing Hitler, (very cliche I know) or Stalin, Nero, Genghis khan, Pol Pot, Moa Zedong, Muhammad, the list goes on and to see them in paradise. But honestly that’s not justice, to send them into oblivion. Jordan Peterson laid it out the best, you’d be surprised, but there’s a little bit, if not more than a little bit of Hitler in all of us. We should be hoping that level of mercy exists. And justice is not made to do away with, but rather to bring us back to what’s right.
Watch this with your eyes closed and he sounds just like his brother (David Bentley Hart) incase you didn't make the connection. Even the way he pauses and meanders a little, its exactly like DBH 😂😂
I tend to think maybe people know more than we realize. It says we do not fight against flesh and blood. Some times I think this world is moving at a rythme and we are dancing to that rythme. There is nothing we can do to change that. Some times speaking such things could result in a lot of bad things. Maybe people do know, but do not speak such things because that is just the sort of nature of things. It's so easy to assume we are the only ones who have it all figured out. No matter where you are in life.
Judgment is a very earthly concept. And everyone who wants people to be punished never seem to own a mirror.
There's no good argument for an endless hell.
I will go one step further, Jason. _There's no Biblical argument for eternal conscious torment._
It's because of God. God has blinded them. He says so in His scriptures.
Yes He takes all the credit if only people gave Him all the credit
Which God is saying so in which scriptures? Rightly divide!
@@doriesse824
This God:
Exo 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?
Do you think these words are just about the flesh? Remember, Jesus says "The words that I speak are spirit"
This God:
Eze 14:9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I THE LORD have deceived that prophet
Oh and this God:
1Kiings 22:23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a LYING SPIRIT in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.
ah yes, and this God:
Isa 6:10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
Isa 6:11 Then said I, Lord, how long?
Why would Isaiah ask "how long?" if it is not God who blinds?
You HAVE to believe the scriptures. They speak plainly but you all try to explain it away because you want to take credit for having "open eyes". But it wasn't you Dories, it's all of God. Take credit for nothing.
check iswasandwillbe website... it's a lot of content but it will be a blessing. SPecifically read "After the counsel of His own will" and see that God controls EVERYTHING.
Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh ALL THINGS after the counsel of his own will
Do you believe it's all things? or just some things?
@@rg442 You didn't answer my question as asked. I'm asking which God, as in the one Jesus called "the ruler of this world" that He had come to cast out, or the Heavenly Father who sent Him into the world to do so? Which one of those two are you saying did that?
@@doriesse824 The verses I quoted weren't clear? hmm... not sure I know how to answer more clearly than the scriptures themselves. They pretty much all say... "The Lord..."
Ephesians 1:11 is super clear... God works all things according to the counsel of His will...
surely you don't think Eph 1:11 refers to anyone else but the Father in heaven, right?
At the end reckoning of all things, we are all individuals. Not available in 6-packs, 12--packs, or any numerical collective. Trust the ultimately transcendent mercy of the One True Creator.
I feel that if I tell most of my friends what I think, they'll just try and "correct me"....I wrote a poem I'd like to share, please tell me what you think.
Unitarianism and Universalism, which emphasize reason, individual freedom, and the unity of all religions, have always been minority movements within Christianity. Several factors contribute to their relatively limited popularity:
1. _Historical persecution_: Unitarians and Universalists faced persecution and ostracism from mainstream Christianity, particularly during the Inquisition and the Reformation. This led to a decline in their numbers and influence.
2. _Orthodox doctrine_: The emphasis on reason and individual interpretation of scripture challenges traditional Christian doctrine and authority, making it difficult for some to accept.
3. _Lack of evangelism_: Unitarians and Universalists have historically focused on individual spiritual growth rather than large-scale evangelism and conversion.
4. _Merger with other movements_: The Unitarian Universalist Association (UUA) merged with other liberal religious groups, diluting the distinctiveness of Unitarianism and Universalism.
5. _Cultural and societal factors_: The appeal of Unitarianism and Universalism may be limited by cultural and societal factors, such as the desire for clear authority and doctrine in religion.
6. _Misconceptions and lack of understanding_: Some people may view Unitarianism and Universalism as "watered-down" Christianity or misunderstand their beliefs, leading to a lack of interest.
7. _Growth in other forms_: While traditional Unitarian and Universalist churches may not be growing rapidly, their ideas and influences can be seen in other liberal Christian movements and progressive religious communities.
Despite these factors, Unitarianism and Universalism continue to thrive in various forms, offering a unique and inclusive approach to Christianity that resonates with many people.
i think it’s not widely accepted because most people can read.
“but the blasphemy of the holy ghost SHALL NEVER BE FORGIVEN.”
“if you forgive not men their trespasses NEITHER WILL MY FATHER FORGIVE YOURS.”
that was easy.
doesnt disprove anything..blasphemy of the holy ghost is refusing to repent so ny uts nature it cant be forgiven but ALL will the Bible says (every knee shall bow and confess )...ALL people will eventually forgive those who wronged them whether now or in eternity
Hell is a state both physical and psychological. A scenario on the Earth as a result describes a reality as a consequence of this. It is the perception of reality and the consequence of this. The same with the kingdom of God.
How many brothers does DBH have xd. No but in all seriousness I believe it because of many factors culture,accpetance by the people around them, also it doesn't help some UVS completely flung justice to side and embraced love and finally experince (agnostic about that but meh). Also Andrew Hronrich had a decent answer to this too it was "they mad because we're living a double life that the christian in question want it" so now they hope to see those bitter and want us to suffer for it.
The title of this vid clip is wrong. Universalism is for sure not unpopular in Christianity, as we that are born again very well know that ALL has been saved by the blood of Jesus, just as ALL has fall in the corrupted seed of Adam!
Zech 3:4 And the celestial messenger said to those who were standing before him, 'Remove the filthy garments from him'. And to him he said, 'Behold, I have taken your iniquity away from you, and I will clothe you with righteousness'.
(This prophecy has been fulfilled at the cross of Jesus).
Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we WERE still sinners, Christ died for us.
Eph 2:8,9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Gal 2:16 clearly says we are saved by the faith OF Jesus, not our faith! We are saved by Hís love and Hís grace while we WERE still sinners!
We are saved by His love, Hís grace (Eph 2:8,9) and Hís faith.. not our faith! This is the gospel of Jesus Christ! We as heirs can only believe.
Phil 3:9 'And be found in him, not having my own righteousness, which is of the law, but what is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith'.
Titus 3:4-7 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Yes, Hís faith, not ours, regardless which translation we use! The Aramaic and Greek is clearly "the faith OF Jesus, the Messiah". It is not simply our faith, but Hís - the faithfulness of Jesus to fulfill the Father's pleasure in His life and the sacrafice for our sin in his death. Salvation is found in the "faith of Jesus".
Rom 6 for those who think we can live a life He gracefully has taken us out.
Rom 3:23 - NO good news.
Rom 3:24 - Good news!
Rom 4:25 .. who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification. 👌
It's a done deal! I only have to believe in Him and what He has accomplished fór and ín me at the cross. Only thén will I experience His goodness and salvation. Thank you Jesus!
1Cor 1:30 'But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God - righteousness & sanctification and redemption'.
This SAVE is not to 'one day go to heaven or hell' as millions believe, no it is the correcting of our souls, our thoughts.. as we áll got alianated in our minds when Adam fall into a fallen mindset! We all forgot the Rock we were hewn.
Truth and grace has come with Jesus.
Matt 18:11 For the Son of man came to save [from the penalty of eternal death] that which was lost. Ampl.
Matthew 18:11
For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost. NKJV
-thát, not whó.
Indeéd the great exchange as someone once so beautifully said ! And all the sheep say Amen! 🐑 👏
Pity those idolaters who judge others worthy of eternal torment, as so too they may be judged, even with a double cup full of same.
The short and true answer is because it just isn't true. You must desire to be free from sin and regenerated in order to be saved. Most simply don't desire to be free from sin. What part of "No man comes to the father except through me" means "People can come to the father without faith in my deity"?
It is true. NOBODY desires to be free from sin. No one is seeking God, not one (Romans 3:10). Romans 11:32 explicitly states that God causes all mankind to be disobedient (that includes you and I) so that he may have mercy on all mankind, and salvation is entirely the result of God’s mercy, it cannot be earned by any man in any way, shape, or form. If someone boasts by thinking that they desire goodness and others don’t, that’s self-righteousness…
Re Coulter..
Jesus was born under the law to fulfil it on the Jewish people's behalf. You cannot hold on to the words of Jesus, as He lived in the Old Test. The cross of Jesus has made everything new and fresh. Everything means nothing excluded.
"No man can come to the Father" .. still before the cross. The entire human race were included in all the cross-events. So this means when Jesus "went to the Father" He took us all with Him! And now He is living in and thru us, but the world is still in a deep sleep the fall of Adam has brought mankind into, so we need to awake them with truth.
The Father sees us wrapped up in Christ, not because of any decision from óur side, but simply because of His LOVE for us ALL.
Speaking of Hitler, would not orthodox Christianity hold that any devout Jew who died in one of Hitler's concentration camps transmigrate from a mortal torturous situation into an immortal one?
That doesn't seem right, does it?
Meanwhile, in this example, the Nazi torturer who repents and accepts Jesus with his final breath goes to heaven while his victims go to hell.
No, it has never seemed right to me.
Or perhaps people arent realizing they have become the publican amd forgotten Gods mercy to them.
That's possible
My answer to the question of the title is because christianity is not christianity
But my answer is probably too simplistic
You are right. In many ways what passes for Christianity these days...isn't. Not Biblical Christianity, anyway.
It is not a popularity contest. I would say we have too much scripture that opposes Universalism.
Such as?
Be careful what you wish for
Yes. There is only one reason why universalism is unpopular - Bible is way too clear about endless torment, way too clear, very unfortunately and Christians, no matter how much they hate it, feel that they have no other options but to accept what the Bible says.
No true, born-again, filled-with-love Christian would ever willfully decide to believe in endless torment. I hear it on a regular basis from Christians when I talk to them about universalism, how they wish I am right but the Bible is too clear about the subject, so they will stay away from the universalism.
I'd say your probably just reading a poor translation of Scripture. Consider getting the Concordant Literal New Testament and the Concordant Version of the Old Testament.
@@ttownsupreme2183John 14:8.
*"Why is Universalism Unpopular in Christianity?"* Is it because Universalism requires us to ignore about half the Bible? (P.S. The alternative to Universalism is not eternal conscious torment. ECT isn't in the Bible, either.)
wrong
@@TheBlueCream What is wrong, Blue Cream? Is it my spelling? (I have never been good at spelling.)
We are all horrible. Especially me. The problem with your argument is that many do not want God. Evil is the result of man turning away from God. Choice. God loves us. Therefore if we don't want him He loves us so much that he leaves us where we want. For some that's hell.
Who's fault is it that we sin?
@@ttownsupreme2183 why ascribe fault to anyone but ourselves. Christ has allotted us an opportunity through Him to be deified and perfected. The fault would be ascribed to original sin. Although we live in corruption it is impossible for us not to. Through repentance and the mysteries we can rest assured that we at least travel towards perfection. With our own devices we lack the ability because we are corrupt. I don't think it's a matter of fault.
@@hesicast Your not listening and your ECT co conditioning we are horrible,evil,and have sinned against a perfect righteous God mantra.Im familiar with it because I was in the ECT camp for many years
The only reason we are able to sin in the first place is because we have a sin nature passed down from Adam and because of that is death.
Romans 5 addresses thais perfectly how this all came through one man and is fixed all through Jesus Christ
@@ttownsupreme2183 what is ECT? Also you just repeated what I said. I said the original sin you said Adam. Same same. Also you brought up Romans 5. So what your saying is that everyone becomes sin free? That repentance is only necessary once? I am not following you. Help me understand clearly.
@@hesicast ECT is eternal conscious torment.
And Im telling you that the only reason we can sin in the first place is because of the sin nature that was passed down from Adam.
No one in the OT knew what hell was as we understood it.
It has been mistranslated and what was known as hell is actually Sheol or the Grave.
Romans 5 is very clear that sin and death came to all because of one man just like justification and life to all because of Christ
Those who accept Jesus Christ as savior have everlasting life.Those who do not have no sin debt owed to God but must pay for theres in an age abiding punishment....it is not forever.
Jesus Christ is the savior of all men
Well it's about this horrible god being 'just' exclusively unto himself...
Its unpopular because its unbiblical.
wrong
It's Scripture telling us so.