Amen. Brother. Im a Pastor at a local church and even the hint of this kind of thinking is resisted on every level, with great hate and vigor. The church system I’m apart of is so self protecting it gets rid of guys like me. Just me preaching the goodness of God on a Sunday for all humanity was enough to get me sidelined for months, the unspoken teach me a lesson of the system. I agree with you there is a movement afoot and I cant wait to see it come to fruition. My problem is I want to make it another doctrine or system of understanding. I am praying that I can resistive that temptation. The last thing we need it another system to imprison us in anther works based system.
"Systems are people." No, they are not, and no leftist thinks that. A system is an abstract power structure. Of course people inhabit some positions in those systems, but they aren't the system itself. Some societal positions are inherently exploitative and therefore morally evil. Landlords who own whole blocks of living space shouldn't exist. Not that those people shouldn't exist, they shouldn't exist as landlords. I feel like it is a very lazy way to signal neutrality by equivocating positions with a cheap "both sides." There is probably not a single discussion were both sides are equally correct about their analysis. Is leftism enough? Of course not. But systemic critique comes much closer to the idea of Paul that we don't fight against flesh and blood than conservative essentialism does. Those abstract systems are what is known as demons and evil spirits, ideological closedness and the excuse for cruelty through necessity. Human beings are primarily made by their society and only very few rise to a state were they form those societies consciously. We become neutral by rising over ideologies and being formed by the needs of our neighbour instead of ideology. But the wellbeing of your neighbour, while often buried under leftist ideology (that this guest misrepresented to an almost slanderous extent) is still the motivation of leftist thought, while conservative thought doesn't even begin there and starts from a defense of hierarchy. Leftism is closer to Christianity than conservatism, but both are nothing without God.
@@Jon-bk2yw Rising from the dead, being conceived of a ghost/spirit, walking on water, multiplying food, turning water into wine...How much more unrealistic fantasy can you get?
Wrong. As someone who is a pagan priest as well as a former Catholic, I can tell you that none of the major pagan religions believe in eternal hellfire. We believe that divine communion releases the soul from the material world and allows it to pass into the higher realms. Souls that have not achieved this state of wisdom are reincarnated. Pagan religions may believe that souls that do not achieve this state of wisdom will be annihilated and will cease to exist, if they do not reach this state of wisdom before the end of time. The religious belief pertaining to eternal hellfire begins with the Zoroastrian religion, which is not pagan. It was then incorporated into the Jewish faith during the period of the Second Temple. That’s after the Jews had been freed from captivity in Babylon by the Persian Empire. Zoroastrianism was the religion of the Persian Empire, and that’s where the Jews got their belief in Heaven vs. Hell. Before that, they held a nihilistic belief in the underworld, Sheol.
@@YoshiBlad3 right? If I genuinely didn't believe in God I'd have zero interest in occupying videos and sites that promote faith. At worst I'd be indifferent to it. Not antagonistic.
The answer to the question is--THE CONTENT OF THE BIBLE. In case you haven't heard, that trumps the content of George MacDonald. Oh Michael is telling us what is attractive "for me." Fascinating. Good luck. Your're gonna need it.
In coming to terms with who God is and isn't I have borrowed the phrase and I'm sorry that I forgot from who, but it goes like this; "I don't believe in the god you don't believe in" Love using this with atheists' especially those that were brought up fundamentalist like myself
This is such a strange painting with a broad brush. Protestantism, makes the strongest case for universalism and at that the biblical variety not a heretical or purely philosophical form either.
If, as the Bible clearly states, the blood of Jesus is sufficient to cover the sins of the world, who are you to say that it doesn't do so? (John 1:29, John 6:33)
Dead to the law by the body of Christ. No law, no sin. Universalists believe they still sin because they are still under the law. Married to the law while claiming to be married to Christ. (Rom 7:4)(Rom 4:15)(1 John 3:4)(John 16:7-10)(Rom 6:14)(Rom 3:19)(1 Cor 15:22-23)(Rom 7:1-4)(2 Tim 2:19)
"Universalists", which universalist? It's not a dogma or branch of christianism, it's a belief. Any denomination can have "universalists". That being said, I believe I still sin because I still make terrible mistakes. The difference is that there's no hell nor threat waiting for me at the end of my life because of these mistakes. God loves me, and I can grow, try to be like Jesus even if I fail and be human without the fear of being condemned because of it.
@@theloveofthetruth You have a weird concept of "sin". We still fail to be loving and wise with our brothers and sisters, we are not condemned to a imaginary torture chamber for eternity. One day, we will have the knowledge necessary to not sin anymore, for sin is the consequence of ignorance. For now, we must grow but be conscious that we will all have eternal life in due time.
@@Artemisarrowzz Sin is transgression of the law. Those that commit sin trangress the Law. How can believers still continue transgressing the law that Jesus made them dead to? As Paul said, GOD forbid. No law, no sin. The law saith to them UNDER the law. Believers are NOT under the law but under grace. (1 John 3:4)(Rom 6:1-2)(Rom 7:4)(Rom 6:1)(Rom 4:15)(Rom 3:19-20)(Rom 6:14)
Pilgrims Progress is worth reading because it gives a Biblically consistent worldview and it gives a view of the world as it is. Universalism is another Gospel. Everyone can be saved but no not everyone will be saved.
Protestantism is not a failure. CS Lewis, NT Wright and Calvin Robinson are not failures. All the hospitals with the names Presbyterian and Methodist are not failures. The King James Bible is not a failure. We are very blessed by our Protestant heritage. And yes, every knee will bow, Christ will have Total Victory! Phil 2:10
Amen. Brother. Im a Pastor at a local church and even the hint of this kind of thinking is resisted on every level, with great hate and vigor. The church system I’m apart of is so self protecting it gets rid of guys like me. Just me preaching the goodness of God on a Sunday for all humanity was enough to get me sidelined for months, the unspoken teach me a lesson of the system. I agree with you there is a movement afoot and I cant wait to see it come to fruition.
My problem is I want to make it another doctrine or system of understanding. I am praying that I can resistive that temptation. The last thing we need it another system to imprison us in anther works based system.
More and more people are understanding what "good news" actually is! 😃
That it's a boring consumer fantasy like superhero movies.
Read George Macdonald's Unspoken Sermons, the sermon God is a consuming fire and To the last farthing.
I love Michael. Thanks for having him on.
"Systems are people." No, they are not, and no leftist thinks that. A system is an abstract power structure. Of course people inhabit some positions in those systems, but they aren't the system itself.
Some societal positions are inherently exploitative and therefore morally evil. Landlords who own whole blocks of living space shouldn't exist. Not that those people shouldn't exist, they shouldn't exist as landlords.
I feel like it is a very lazy way to signal neutrality by equivocating positions with a cheap "both sides." There is probably not a single discussion were both sides are equally correct about their analysis. Is leftism enough? Of course not. But systemic critique comes much closer to the idea of Paul that we don't fight against flesh and blood than conservative essentialism does. Those abstract systems are what is known as demons and evil spirits, ideological closedness and the excuse for cruelty through necessity. Human beings are primarily made by their society and only very few rise to a state were they form those societies consciously.
We become neutral by rising over ideologies and being formed by the needs of our neighbour instead of ideology. But the wellbeing of your neighbour, while often buried under leftist ideology (that this guest misrepresented to an almost slanderous extent) is still the motivation of leftist thought, while conservative thought doesn't even begin there and starts from a defense of hierarchy. Leftism is closer to Christianity than conservatism, but both are nothing without God.
I was taught in church that the reason we end up in hell is if we reject Jesus I used to accept and believe that
That is objectively true but it’s a yes and bc it’s also bc that’s what the individual wants in that case.
@@justchilling704No.
How can you 'reject' what you know isn't real?
@williamoarlock8634 what's not real about Jesus?
@@Jon-bk2yw Rising from the dead, being conceived of a ghost/spirit, walking on water, multiplying food, turning water into wine...How much more unrealistic fantasy can you get?
Awesome well done Godspeed bro Maranatha ❤❤❤❤❤
It's amazing how people think the Church always preached permanent eternal hellfire, when that's an explicitly pagan idea.
Agreed I thought that while listening too, the guy in the video seems to not understand the rich history of universalism in Protestantism as well.
Wrong. As someone who is a pagan priest as well as a former Catholic, I can tell you that none of the major pagan religions believe in eternal hellfire. We believe that divine communion releases the soul from the material world and allows it to pass into the higher realms. Souls that have not achieved this state of wisdom are reincarnated. Pagan religions may believe that souls that do not achieve this state of wisdom will be annihilated and will cease to exist, if they do not reach this state of wisdom before the end of time. The religious belief pertaining to eternal hellfire begins with the Zoroastrian religion, which is not pagan. It was then incorporated into the Jewish faith during the period of the Second Temple.
That’s after the Jews had been freed from captivity in Babylon by the Persian Empire. Zoroastrianism was the religion of the Persian Empire, and that’s where the Jews got their belief in Heaven vs. Hell. Before that, they held a nihilistic belief in the underworld, Sheol.
Symbolic cannibalism ('Eucharist') and the dying-rising man-god are also pagan ideas.
@@williamoarlock8634Buddy, I gotta ask… what prompts you to come here and do this? In all honesty. I see you in almost every video.
@@YoshiBlad3 right? If I genuinely didn't believe in God I'd have zero interest in occupying videos and sites that promote faith. At worst I'd be indifferent to it. Not antagonistic.
The answer to the question is--THE CONTENT OF THE BIBLE. In case you haven't heard, that trumps the content of George MacDonald. Oh Michael is telling us what is attractive "for me." Fascinating. Good luck. Your're gonna need it.
In coming to terms with who God is and isn't I have borrowed the phrase and I'm sorry that I forgot from who, but it goes like this; "I don't believe in the god you don't believe in" Love using this with atheists' especially those that were brought up fundamentalist like myself
"It’s not about God but about who we are …”. That says it all right there …. good word, thank you.
This is such a strange painting with a broad brush. Protestantism, makes the strongest case for universalism and at that the biblical variety not a heretical or purely philosophical form either.
Don't make me laugh - protestant 'eternal joy' is the eternal suffering of others. From Calvin and Luther to Piper and MacArthur.
If, as the Bible clearly states, the blood of Jesus is sufficient to cover the sins of the world, who are you to say that it doesn't do so?
(John 1:29, John 6:33)
Dead to the law by the body of Christ. No law, no sin. Universalists believe they still sin because they are still under the law. Married to the law while claiming to be married to Christ.
(Rom 7:4)(Rom 4:15)(1 John 3:4)(John 16:7-10)(Rom 6:14)(Rom 3:19)(1 Cor 15:22-23)(Rom 7:1-4)(2 Tim 2:19)
"Universalists", which universalist? It's not a dogma or branch of christianism, it's a belief. Any denomination can have "universalists".
That being said, I believe I still sin because I still make terrible mistakes. The difference is that there's no hell nor threat waiting for me at the end of my life because of these mistakes. God loves me, and I can grow, try to be like Jesus even if I fail and be human without the fear of being condemned because of it.
@@Artemisarrowzz
You believe you still sin because you are still judging men's works UNDER the Law.
(Rom 3:19-20)
@@theloveofthetruth You have a weird concept of "sin". We still fail to be loving and wise with our brothers and sisters, we are not condemned to a imaginary torture chamber for eternity. One day, we will have the knowledge necessary to not sin anymore, for sin is the consequence of ignorance. For now, we must grow but be conscious that we will all have eternal life in due time.
@@Artemisarrowzz
Sin is transgression of the law. Those that commit sin trangress the Law. How can believers still continue transgressing the law that Jesus made them dead to? As Paul said, GOD forbid. No law, no sin. The law saith to them UNDER the law. Believers are NOT under the law but under grace.
(1 John 3:4)(Rom 6:1-2)(Rom 7:4)(Rom 6:1)(Rom 4:15)(Rom 3:19-20)(Rom 6:14)
Pilgrims Progress is worth reading because it gives a Biblically consistent worldview and it gives a view of the world as it is. Universalism is another Gospel. Everyone can be saved but no not everyone will be saved.
Protestantism is not a failure. CS Lewis, NT Wright and Calvin Robinson are not failures. All the hospitals with the names Presbyterian and Methodist are not failures. The King James Bible is not a failure. We are very blessed by our Protestant heritage. And yes, every knee will bow, Christ will have Total Victory! Phil 2:10