Is Spy the weakest class? - Yes Is he weak? - No This video is meant to demonstrate to you some of the aspects of Spy’s kit that most tend to underappreciated the power of. This is not meant to be a “Spy is amazing and here’s why” video.
@Lonqudor all classes has strengths and weaknesses. If spy truly was "weak" No one would be turning their backs to check for spies at all. We just gotta realize our weaknesses be wary, learn from them and coordinate accordingly to play to our stengths
Spy is absolutely weak. You're basically saying that he's less weak if you play well - which applies to any class. In the greater picture, spy is absolutely weak. But weak doesn't mean "not effective" - that's the difference.
The whole design of spy as a class is to be “weak” when caught by the enemy, which is why he is given tools to not get caught like disguises and cloak. He is a glass cannon by design, deadly when used like a spy (aka actually stealthy), but vulnerable when not
spy IS the weakest class BUT i wouldn't say he's weak Johntohill says it best, you're supposed to die as spy you're supposed to get caught out you're not always meant to get the drop on the medic and TRICKSTABS ARE ONLY COOL IF IT ISNT ALL YOU DO. also f^ck the kunai
what is the issue with the kunai? against competent players it is genuinely spy’s worst unlock which is why it’s never run in any serious setting. i know you can pub stomp with it but you can pub stomp with any weapon.
The kunai got the same treatment as the phlog, they got blamed for something other weapons do in the shadow, for phlog is the scroch shot and for kunai is the dead ringer
people who call spy weak are the same people who use the kunai/DR combo, disguise as an enemy scout and run FROM their own spawn towards the enemy team in the main routes. Watching jonto's tutorials on acting and positionning improved my efficiency so much I almost consistently topscore as spy now, and I'm not even a spy main!
Im saying he is weak playing him entirely as a team player, targeting picks only, default knife or big earner and i never disguise as scout for the obvious speed giveaway. It is way way harder to play him with a lot more luck involved because of overall balance, some flaws and the class being weaker indeed. I love the french regardless and skill can overcome a lot but come on, he is the weakest class
2:20 Kunai+Dead Ringer Spies have the problem of always doing the same thing over and over again, so they usually only successed against bad teams or when the enemy team doesn't have enough time to recognize their patterns. I can't tell you the amount of these Spies that i have seen dominating the server, only to 10 minutes later see how they are struggling to get 1 pick because my team started to recognize the fact that they kept attacking at the same place and disguising as Scout or Medic. Or the amount of them i have shot down by playing Pyro with the Homewrecker, and just spychecking every teamate because they can't become invisible.
Spy is definitely weak. Other classes have far more potential at their best while spy at his best will be less effective as the enemy will become more aware of him. You can get those entire-team chainstabs once or twice a match before people start to turn their backs, warn each other and just communicate to hunt you down. I do think spy could be better with an evasive playstyle, but I think this is hindered by a few factors. You see, spy would do amazing if he were buffed and had more cloak (+15% or sth this is debatable) as it would allow for a more maneuvrable/smoother playstyle. Back in the day, maps were smaller and this probably wasn't much of an issue then since it was easier to get to the enemy backlines easier. However, nowadays we have much bigger maps with multiple control points and larger scale map design in general. Because of this many people play spy aggresively in a suicidal way (aka spy syndrome). While as he is, spy has a high skill ceiling which is totally fine. But imho, spy hasn't really evolved much unlike the other classes and many of his bugs, the backstab hitreg or the disguises just don't let him prosper. That said, Spy is still a pretty fun class to play.
I have indeed tried to not get caught when a spy-bloodthirsty pyro is checking every corner on the map. The best method I have found for not being caught as spy is to not be a spy.
Spy is fragile yes. But not particularly WEAK. His revolver is an amazing weapon for finishing fights. Cleaning weak targets up ect. His tools let you get into all kinds of fun positions to shoot from as well. Disguising as an enemy is nice but my GOD allied Disguising is genuinely one of the best discoveries I've ever made. The knives all pretty much give you options for different ways to get away with being silly. Personally the icicle is my favorite because man. Having the option to not be caught because of one flame particle is huge. I feel like being the weakest of nine strong people doesn't make you weak.
As you can see, many people including me are not so sure about Spy isn't being weak. He is weak, i can name lots of situations where your Spy will do nothing. What 2 things Spy lacks the most: Survivability and Playstyles. _Survivability_ can be fulfilled with average Spy Main loadout: Kunai, Dead Ringer and some Revolver. I think it's no need to explain why Invis Watches is sometimes underused. Yet, he needs more tools to remain alive if he goes for a pick or two. And _Playstyles,_ where Dead Ringer doesn't count, since everyone know how such Spy behaves. His playstyle is kinda old already, sneaking up on someone could not work or you'll get revealed fast. Spy must have something else aside from Invis Watch, right? Example of playstyle idea: Bring back Tranquilizer, so Spy could weaken his key targets or add a Tracker Gun, which would highlight any enemy you land a shot on. Especially useful in Competitive matches.
The thing is, spy having extra survivability is EXACTLY whats wrong with kunai dead ringer, spy is SUPPOSED to die alot. You’re sacrificing yourself to get a high priority target(medics,snipers etc.) so your team can win. Making spy not die after getting that stab is why everyone hates kunai dr
@@Soupnator i agree with how OP kunai is, but it's all can be fixed with some balance changes(if devs would ever do them). Overall, i don't think Spy is the one who should die fast, since what's the point of playing then? Newbie Spy should die a lot to understand how difficult this class is, but Good Spy should be rewarded. And I'm not talking here about Trickstab Mainers, but simple Spies too. If Spy is the one to be sacrificed, then why not main Sniper? He's a "better Spy" who can fear no one, but other Snipers and flankers. So, as i said in previous comment, Spy should have alternatives in Playstyles so he won't be countered by "Just looking back" or a complete rework. I'd just give him melee random crits immunity.
@@_the_spy_8867 spy SHOULD have alternative playstyles, i agree. But spy’s purpose isnt to get large killstreaks, spy’s purpose is to disrupt the enemy team(destroying sentry nests, stopping pushes by medic dropping, preventing a sniper from picking your medic by killing etc.) so your team can win. If you have done that part, dying isnt an issue anymore because you GREATLY helped your teams victory. As a possible balance for the kunai, i’d say bring back the old kunai where if gave you exactly the amount of health that the victim had(5 HP gain on stabs to player that had 5HP, or 100 HP on 100 health targets) with a 100HP limit per stab(so you dont get 300 HP when stabbing a heavy)
If only the Spy did have something else aside from his Knives and Invis Watch. Like a revolver that is surprisingly effective. The ability to shoot enemies and live, flee and lure, or backstab. You have to remember the Spy can use the Cloak and Dagger to stand in a corner and report everything the enemy team is doing and do call outs. Ambassador Spy lets you pump out 600 damage before needing to reload if you time this with enemies pushing into your team it is massive. The Diamond Back rewards you for destroying the Teleporter and focusing on harassment over key picks letting you pump out massive damage. The Enforcer lets you destroy damage resistant enemies or keep down pesky Engineers. You can choose who and how you want to harass them, Spy naturally is set up to create your own Playstyle and if you're countered by just looking back as your major issue then play with your team or use the revolver. Other play styles then just backstab.
If someone says that spy is weak he mostly doesnt mean that he is useless. A weak class only means that he is just not good in a 1v1 against other classes. Every class in tf2 exept for medic has the better cards when fighting him and that is on design. he has the potential to give the team tons of information, disabling/destroying sentry nests and also has the ability to deal more damage than sniper at the cost of that he dies really fast if he gets caught out.
I agree on people not playing him to his full strenghts, missing the mark its a team game... but he is the weakest link and kinda nerfed. Dont get me wrong, i lost count of how many matches ive made the winning move with spy, be it back capping, destroying a nest or the right pick at the right time, all that regardless of score (even bottom, like just getting in a match and saving the day). But that doesnt change the facts: -The average skill in the game is way waaay higher then the reality on launch and what devs had in mind. Spy checking, people aware of even the tiniest hints to someone being spy, its mucle memory by now; And thats harsh when theres ZERO consequence to shooting/hitting your allies... come on the strongest counter is turning, wich btw every class can do with 0 cost, 0 effort. -Said skill and the player number increase from the initial design means way more projectiles, chaos and splash damage all around... -While the maps are designed around chokes. All things that hit your cloak and spy have no way to passthrough or around hitboxes... So youre slowly moving through map allowed side paths in very fast paced game, sometimes with game advancing very quickly- also in many maps said paths to the backline are thenselves chokes, easily defended or cluttered -Its the single class that gets massively hurt and nerfed by even a single other stack. 1 more spy imediatly reduces your effectivity, 2 or more... its exponential id say -The game done the spy dirty, from darwin shield, piss, fire, pyro bros that can take out sapper... -And on top of it all crits and melee crits for everyone We can play him for the team and do well playing REALLY well, but that is despite the design flaws and weaknesses more then thanks to it. He was already the hardest to learn and master but the ratio of skill and luck to performance-impact raised way more with all the collective baggage+changes in the game. And heck tf2 still gives everyone 'wallhacks' that detect spy on spawn. Maybe if his sapper wasnt useful just against 1 class... maybe if he had some sort of ping to convey intel (bypassing voice chat people rarely use, or fake using weapons or reloading easier... or heck some extra resistance when disguised, being to taunt...
Spy is objectively the weakest class. Doesnt mean hes the best hes just the weakest, still my favorite and ive sunk hours into him so i top score alot but he does have a few fundemental problems with consistency
It's not that spy is weak, it's that every other class is strong. Like yeah sure I COULD put all this effort in to stabbing this medic, OR I could rocket jump in as soldier and take him out in 6 seconds flat. I don't really see this as a problem though because he's fun to play as anyways.
I like to imagine the best competitive spy perusing UA-cam one day, scrolling down his feed to read "Spy Isn't Weak, You're Just Not Playing Him Effectively". bro is judging our spy gameplay telepathically
You're portraying spy as this underdog class no one knows how to play effectively and thus collectively think he's the weakest. That's just wrong lol. Spy is the weakest because he has the most ammount of downtime of _any_ class to get things done. He has to wait a hot minute to go for a play, usually die after and wait again for another opportunity. All the while being the worst 1v1 class in the game aside from medic. He is either doing that or giving info to his team (which still isn't the most useful thing a class can do) Your mistake is thinking ppl don't know how to play the class. They absolutely do. And they know for a fact that if a highlander league imposed a rule where you could opt out of a class, every single top team would get rid of spy
It’s sad how the most complex class in the game is played in mostly one way by the general playerbase, and treated as weak because of it. You are supposed to adapt as spy. Trying the same tricks over and over again lead to consistent failure. This video really showcases how spy isn’t weak and has a lot of potential.
Eeeeeeh I'd say that Spy is a little TOO weak because valve kind of neglected the class. (ahem spawning wallhacks giving away disguised spies, the locust swarm of bugs that follow the spy, the lack of unlocks that significantly change his playstyle to handle different situations)
You can mitigate the spawning wallhacks by disguising as someone on your own team and only cloaking when you are near the front lines, this saves on cloak and hides the fact that there's a spy from the enemy 😎
Spy's effectiveness depends on enemy awareness and spychecking - but when the enemy is engaged by your teammates, it can be impossible to check for spies without dying for it. If strength is defined by consistency across situations, no one wins, except Soldier. Not to mention the fact that only Spy has a weapon dedicated to instakills which does not rely on any damage threshold. Least useful class, maybe. But he isn't weak.
Okay so I know 99% of TF2's playerbase plays casual but Spy is actually not weak in Casual, he's just weaker than the rest. Yes he definitely gets boosted by the fact that some people are clueless in Casual and fall to his shenanigans quite often, but him being a pick class that also has to be in melee range to kill makes it so that he needs to pick his targets way more carefully than sniper. Sniper just shits back and his biggest worry is a spy or a bombing soldier, otherwise he just clicks on heads. But spy, especially if the enemy has a good pyro needs to be super careful with who he stabs. Now in Competitive on the other hand (I will be talking exclusively on HL not offclassing in 6s) spy is extremely strong. Because there's one of each class on the enemy, and everyone is guaranteed to be a good player his choice boils down to: "Does the enemy Medic have uber or is Sniper terrorizing my team at the moment?" Yes you can argue that he dies more often due to the existence of a good pyro or the fact people communicate in comp, but trading a spy for their Med/Sniper is a huge win! This all can definitely apply to casual as well just like you said, but because you're fighting 12 people instead of 9 its way wayyyyy harder! But there's a reason 90% of callouts in comp revolve around spy and sniper. Because they're the scariest classes to lose track of. Why am I saying all this? Because spy is in fact not weak. Yes he's the weakest in the game but that doesn't mean anything. He's one of the strongest if he plays his cards right because again.. One life for losing uber is a worthwhile trade! The reason y'all think he's weak is because you just disguise as scout run in with your dead ringer active and then try to trickstab everyone with your 70 health and kunai. Yeah, brother, they can shoot you. Screw all you casual kunai spies. I'm so tired of you lot doing the same thing over and over and complaining. Where's my stock spy enthusiasts at?
Not even just stock, good positioning when a team fight starts let Ambassador or Diamond Back safely pump out 100 damage a shot at a rate that makes Soldier jealous. If you make use of tools other then Kunai and Dead Ringer Spy can be scary. People forget he has a Revolver, one that can be very potent and not just a Cloak Battery. Spy has options, people just neglect them horridly.
My effective loadout is the letrange(however the hell you spell it) Stock watch And the YER And these weapons basicially help me never ever be noticed by anyone but those i have already killed,like i have gotten away with so many dumb things because i knew to fold at the right time
I'm pretty sure the same goes for spy in MvM. A lot of people just don't know just how valuable he can be and his value increases as more scary priority targets show up.
Spy has the quality of taking focus off the enemy team with his precense. I think that's value in itself. I think to better attain that he should have 150 base health (Kunai should remain as it is with 70 health, 210 overheal) to better dip out of situations after getting a backstab or sapping a building. That is the most simple way Valve can buff Spy without putting in too much work. Alternatively I think it would be cool if his sapper got an additional function. Have him deploy it as a small antenna that reveals the location of nearby enemies to Spy's teammates. It should be relatively simple for the enemy to destroy it, because it should make a beeping noise that allows enemies to track it down, but that is a positive for Spy, as he is now baiting enemies away from the objective to deal with this pest, allowing him to take on enemies in 1v1 where he excels. Maybe that's too annoying to play against, but I'd love for it to be a part of Spy's basic kit to provide information to his teammates from behind the enemy lines.
Spy is not weak but neither strong. He's average. You either play spy with the 3 cotroversial weapons or you play traditional and choose your fights wisely. Even I a ku*ai player run away when I see that there is no chance for me to continue killing.
Here's why people use the dead ringer; It's overpowered. SHOCKER, I know, but I just ran a 21-2 KD game as a hyper aggressive all stock spy, but just swapping for the dead ringer. I get these sorta scores pretty often. Even when I don't play aggressively, I use dead ringer. Why? Well, I don't need to slowly crawl my way behind the back lines when I could take 1 damage and I'm there in seconds. I wait just long enough before engaging so when I eventually get caught out, guess who has a get out of jail free card? ME. Is Spy weak? Yeah, if you play him like you're supposed to. He's super weak.
As one of the few surviving spy mains who hasn’t digressed into dead ringer + kunai, it’s frustrating watching people be blatantly awful at spy before calling him a bad class. He’s effective. He’s well equipped for his job. It’s not the enemy pyros fault you walked directly at him while treating your disguise as an invisibility watch. It’s not the enemy snipers fault your decloaked right beside his ear making him obliterate you with jarate. I haven’t even bothered learning trickstabs yet, because I can already consistently topscore. Just play spy how he’s intended, and you’ll find he’s actually a useful class.
Seeing some of the comments not realize the Revolver exists or is a viable weapon is why people think he is weak. They are obsessed with that juicy backstab and forgetting they have a team, forgetting there is an objective. Many revolvers boost damage from certain criteria which reward positioning and timing letting you pump out 100 damage hitscan shots while the enemies are distracted by your team. If you're dealing with Pyros there is a nice trick as a Revolver and Spycicle combo lets you outgun them in point blank range. Anti-Engineer Spy can use the Diamond Back and YER to decimate Engineers. Dead Ringer can help with this. Buildings are static, so you can Disguise safely around a corner, wait for your cloak to recharge, then go stab the Engineer and sap his buildings. Dead Ringer out of there and you now have 2-3 Crits. Crits you can empty on an enemy who chased you or kill the Engineer at range or their Medic at range. Yes YER reduces Cloak Effectiveness, but so what? You destroyed the Sentry nest and they need a Pyro specifically to counter this. A Pyro who needs to focus on the buildings over you giving you potentially 2 kills or an easier escape. Stop being a solo Spy, coordinate stuff like this by listening to when combat starts. If you're close enough to combat then enemies wasting ammo chasing shadows means reloading in the team fight that is happening or your entire team versus 70% of theirs.
As a spy main that has a decent kdr and generaly gets at least one kill before he dies, i need to say that effectivly any class with any weapon can get atleast one kill if you play well enough but spy is a glass canon, he is designed to be both strong and weak. At base he is the weakest class and often times gets quicky killed of by more adept close range classes. Git gud doesnt apply to the random and chaotic shit that simply kills you in seconds. Spy dies too easly due to him not being able to output high enough dps. I love gunspy but hitting all 5 shots on a scout is really uncommon even for me
Imo I agree in stacks some people say that he is worse better the communication is. I disagree if both teams k ow when and where you pick someone even if you don't escape you made the enemy team fight on your terms.
@@binheve and if the enemy team is dumb enough to let you behind them, you might aswell play ninjaneer so that your entire team can make it behind and insta win
Weak vs weakest are very different as many people are pointing out. But I also think the idea that spy is the weakest class is very overblown. In top level highlander spy isn't particularly weak. And even if you just consider what class is weakest at being a carry in pubs I would say pyro is weaker any day. Pryo has very very strong win more mechanics but not as strong of carry mechanics.
Spy is unequivocally weak. Every class at least has good options to fight back if caught out. Spy though is heavily reliant on enemies not knowing he is there to the point that it's his primary playstyle. The points you offered help make this crippling issue less terrible, but you're still better off just picking a sniper since he is as, if not more, effective and is far more safe.
If your enemies are not 10 h fresh installs then yeah Spy is not weak. But if you play against average casual players with years of experience, you won't have a good time.
6:18 Like these are the example clips we get.... This player completely ignore the spy for like 10 seconds and then gets stabbed. "See how strong he is".
Even the best players can get caught by a spy. I know all of you guys love your trickstabbing and basically never using disguises but just beig careful with who you kill can really make him effective.
the first argument and it's straight up shit - pyro effortlessly ruins everything you can do as a spy to not get caught spy is a weak, *luck based* class
Spy gets his main survival tool entirely disabled by any form of debuff or sustain damage. Of course, he should die when caught, but should he really be exposed by a single flame particle when pyro can produce hundreds per minute? I mostly agree with the content of the video, but the title is rather unfitting. Edit: also i forgot spawn wallhacks revealing him
But all debuff timers are halved when cloaked. So if you get burned or recealed via jarate, its only gonna last half as long. Also spy is faster than pyro so most of the time you can outrun his fire
@@Soupnator still more than enough time to kill a spy, also pyro can easily kill before the spy exits his flamethrower range, also pyro has flare guns and shotguns.
@@davidmingle5910 but pyro is your natural hard counter. There are ways to escape a pyro, but you’ll die most of the time if not all(which is expected because he’s your hard counter)
Can’t accidentally say something in global chat if you can’t chat at all haha! Please help, I’ve done nothing but sit in silence watching my teammates get picked off one by one over and over again for three years. It’s like a recurring nightmare that I can’t wake up from.
Spy is weak by design- he's absolutely fucked when he's caught, which is why cloaking and disguises exist. The conundrum that Spy is weak comes around when you meet those that do not utilize cloak or disguising to its fullest, which is like the majority of Spy mains in TF2, if the Kunai + Dead Ringer Spy in that one TF2 lobby you just joined is any indication.
so basically what im doing wrong is that im a casual player and not a competitive player, because all competitive players do the stuff that your saying but I dont.
Is heavy strong at moving around? Is pyro strong at long range combat? Is scout a bullet sponge (without bonk)? No? Then why would any rational thinking person would call him weak?
I don't know who is this meant for. All the 10k hour casuals aren't watching this hoping to learn something but to have background noise to drawn out tinnitus as they sleep with a shotgun replica under their pillow. The substance of tf2 videos has become completely immaterial to them as they've reached early retirement. All the new players already know how the class works and aren't in disagreement at all because they get bent over backwards by competent players for 2 hours like it's a date night at a gay bar. Comp players are rolling their eyes because they haven't felt their rear in months due to spinal disc herniation caused by excessive sacking. Getting killed by a spy is indistinguishable from a skybombing roamer homing in for the kill - both are kamikaze tactics, just that one doesn't require you to play 5v6 until the right moment strikes and isn't being held back by your position getting leaked to the other team by government surveillance drones. I feel like this is an imaginary argument with game designers trying to understand the game through AI generated screenshots. Spy is about as enjoyable as a heroin addiction and is as balanced as a ladder on a surfing board. Good for flexing against morons if you have the skill but suboptimal in a serious competition.
Spy is weak Spy is kinda similar to Scout he is a pick class kill someone get out over extended you are dead and that is the point of Spy if you get caught you die that is why people call Spy weak he instantly dies if he someone breaths into his general direction
@@John-merman Well soldier is kinda of a pick class but demoman heavy and basicaally everyone except Scout and Spy Of course you can over extend but most of the time if you do you will die these classes are suppose to go kill someone important like a medic and run away
Spy is weak, he is not useless or inefficent however, they are very different things. Spy is the weakest class, which means by picking spy you are selecting an option that when in comparison to all other options is "weak" by comparison. Spy is completely servicable as a class and I enjoy him but saying he's not weak because in a vacuum he's well designed is dishonest to say because you are looking at the class as an individual rather than seeing the big picture where you compare his potential power to every other option available I can say Spy is Weak but also say Spy is Effective and those statements are not mutually exclusive, you can be weak and effective at the same time. I'd argue though that spy NEEDS to be weak or else he wouldn't be spy. If you could just run in guns blazing you aren't playing spy (aka if you're a kunai ringer spy) because you aren't insensitivized to play to the classes strengths of stealth, misdirection, and paranoia. Because of the fact spy is weak if you're not using kunai ringer you have to actually play smart and while some people say this is a downside I personally view this as an upside due the fact that once the enemy team knows there is a spy them not seeiny you is worrying. Maybe you're behind them, maybe you're not, but by playing with spys weaknesses in mind you make it so they rarely ever see you when you're not killing them causing an effect where people will shoot at one another more and turn randomly, both of which wastes enemy resources and time no matter how minimal. This is because spy is weak, they know if they find a spy they can kill him so it gives the enemys a sort of side mission of "find the spy" which distracts them and splits their priorities, the better the spy is the more this happens as players start actively hunting for him and checking random corners wasting even more time and resource. If the spy was traditionally strong the method would probably just become avoid the spys area like what sniper causes or stay together on point, the opposite of what you want as spy. By being weak people will split off to random hallways to look for you, people wouldn't do that if your were a strong up close 1v1 class. TlDr Spy is weak, and that's a good thing because being weak doesn't make you not effective.
I LOVE YOU. I joke of cource , but seriously. I am so tired of hearing "SPY IS A BAD CLASS" for 20 times a day. From people who only disguise as scout and decloacked right behind the enemy.
Spy is only weak when u have a skill issue which applies for all classes its like me saying direct hit or the sniper is weak when i cant hit anything. Is it weak? No do i have a skill issue? Yes also in casual kunai is the best at anything i dont think it needs a nerf cuz its the only fun knife that lets u surf sentries and there is much bigger offenders of balance like the vacc,sniper,phlog,banner soldis,turtle engis these need focus fire and so does the kunai spy i only see the risky glass canon get called braindead and unfair and its only recently like its been in the game for ages bruh.
![[TF2] Slept On Weapons](/img/n.gif)
Is Spy the weakest class? - Yes
Is he weak? - No
This video is meant to demonstrate to you some of the aspects of Spy’s kit that most tend to underappreciated the power of. This is not meant to be a “Spy is amazing and here’s why” video.
Spy is weak but at the same time he isint
@@Z7StudiosMechayes
"If u think spy is weak, its not spy's fault. Its skill issue on thy side"
-Me
Tf2 hit registration is kinda bad ,like my skill issue
@Lonqudor all classes has strengths and weaknesses. If spy truly was "weak" No one would be turning their backs to check for spies at all. We just gotta realize our weaknesses be wary, learn from them and coordinate accordingly to play to our stengths
I feel like The Chucklenuts put it best (I think it was great blue or FSoaS) "Spy isn't *weak* but he is the *weakest* class"
Spy doesn’t have to be good to be fun, sure I’m bad at him, but the adrenaline rush sure if a handsome reward
without watching the video, this will surely affect the trout population.
Fsoas isnt satisfied
@@svu1191he’s already on a stick
@@demoman5864 he is sitting on my stick
@@svu1191😧
Spy is absolutely weak. You're basically saying that he's less weak if you play well - which applies to any class. In the greater picture, spy is absolutely weak. But weak doesn't mean "not effective" - that's the difference.
I don't think this video is necessarily the best argument. But if you look at top level highlander game stats spy isn't particularly weak either.
The whole design of spy as a class is to be “weak” when caught by the enemy, which is why he is given tools to not get caught like disguises and cloak. He is a glass cannon by design, deadly when used like a spy (aka actually stealthy), but vulnerable when not
I mean he IS the weakest class but he's not particularly useless.
@@peterisawesomeplease I'd still argue that he's weak. It's that he's really, REALLY effective/annoying in highlander games.
That's all true, but whatever spy can do, the sniper can do better, and you can replace spy with just about any of the other 7 classes.
spy IS the weakest class BUT i wouldn't say he's weak
Johntohill says it best, you're supposed to die as spy
you're supposed to get caught out
you're not always meant to get the drop on the medic
and TRICKSTABS ARE ONLY COOL IF IT ISNT ALL YOU DO.
also f^ck the kunai
Also SPY HAS A GUN
Best comment here
based
what is the issue with the kunai? against competent players it is genuinely spy’s worst unlock which is why it’s never run in any serious setting. i know you can pub stomp with it but you can pub stomp with any weapon.
The kunai got the same treatment as the phlog, they got blamed for something other weapons do in the shadow, for phlog is the scroch shot and for kunai is the dead ringer
people who call spy weak are the same people who use the kunai/DR combo, disguise as an enemy scout and run FROM their own spawn towards the enemy team in the main routes.
Watching jonto's tutorials on acting and positionning improved my efficiency so much I almost consistently topscore as spy now, and I'm not even a spy main!
Im saying he is weak playing him entirely as a team player, targeting picks only, default knife or big earner and i never disguise as scout for the obvious speed giveaway. It is way way harder to play him with a lot more luck involved because of overall balance, some flaws and the class being weaker indeed. I love the french regardless and skill can overcome a lot but come on, he is the weakest class
you can top score in pubs so i guess it’s balanced.
The thrill of successfully fooling the enemy team is something that will never get old.
This could be catastrophic for the fishing season
2:20 Kunai+Dead Ringer Spies have the problem of always doing the same thing over and over again, so they usually only successed against bad teams or when the enemy team doesn't have enough time to recognize their patterns.
I can't tell you the amount of these Spies that i have seen dominating the server, only to 10 minutes later see how they are struggling to get 1 pick because my team started to recognize the fact that they kept attacking at the same place and disguising as Scout or Medic.
Or the amount of them i have shot down by playing Pyro with the Homewrecker, and just spychecking every teamate because they can't become invisible.
Spy is definitely weak. Other classes have far more potential at their best while spy at his best will be less effective as the enemy will become more aware of him. You can get those entire-team chainstabs once or twice a match before people start to turn their backs, warn each other and just communicate to hunt you down. I do think spy could be better with an evasive playstyle, but I think this is hindered by a few factors. You see, spy would do amazing if he were buffed and had more cloak (+15% or sth this is debatable) as it would allow for a more maneuvrable/smoother playstyle. Back in the day, maps were smaller and this probably wasn't much of an issue then since it was easier to get to the enemy backlines easier. However, nowadays we have much bigger maps with multiple control points and larger scale map design in general. Because of this many people play spy aggresively in a suicidal way (aka spy syndrome).
While as he is, spy has a high skill ceiling which is totally fine. But imho, spy hasn't really evolved much unlike the other classes and many of his bugs, the backstab hitreg or the disguises just don't let him prosper. That said, Spy is still a pretty fun class to play.
I have indeed tried to not get caught when a spy-bloodthirsty pyro is checking every corner on the map.
The best method I have found for not being caught as spy is to not be a spy.
Spy is fragile yes. But not particularly WEAK. His revolver is an amazing weapon for finishing fights. Cleaning weak targets up ect.
His tools let you get into all kinds of fun positions to shoot from as well. Disguising as an enemy is nice but my GOD allied Disguising is genuinely one of the best discoveries I've ever made.
The knives all pretty much give you options for different ways to get away with being silly. Personally the icicle is my favorite because man. Having the option to not be caught because of one flame particle is huge.
I feel like being the weakest of nine strong people doesn't make you weak.
me playing spy effectively to take control of the my target’s mouse so he doesn’t turn around:
Me playing spy effectively to stop the enemy pyro from spraying fire every 2 seconds:
As you can see, many people including me are not so sure about Spy isn't being weak. He is weak, i can name lots of situations where your Spy will do nothing.
What 2 things Spy lacks the most: Survivability and Playstyles.
_Survivability_ can be fulfilled with average Spy Main loadout: Kunai, Dead Ringer and some Revolver.
I think it's no need to explain why Invis Watches is sometimes underused. Yet, he needs more tools to remain alive if he goes for a pick or two.
And _Playstyles,_ where Dead Ringer doesn't count, since everyone know how such Spy behaves. His playstyle is kinda old already, sneaking up on someone could not work or you'll get revealed fast. Spy must have something else aside from Invis Watch, right?
Example of playstyle idea: Bring back Tranquilizer, so Spy could weaken his key targets or add a Tracker Gun, which would highlight any enemy you land a shot on. Especially useful in Competitive matches.
The thing is, spy having extra survivability is EXACTLY whats wrong with kunai dead ringer, spy is SUPPOSED to die alot. You’re sacrificing yourself to get a high priority target(medics,snipers etc.) so your team can win. Making spy not die after getting that stab is why everyone hates kunai dr
@@Soupnator i agree with how OP kunai is, but it's all can be fixed with some balance changes(if devs would ever do them). Overall, i don't think Spy is the one who should die fast, since what's the point of playing then? Newbie Spy should die a lot to understand how difficult this class is, but Good Spy should be rewarded. And I'm not talking here about Trickstab Mainers, but simple Spies too. If Spy is the one to be sacrificed, then why not main Sniper? He's a "better Spy" who can fear no one, but other Snipers and flankers.
So, as i said in previous comment, Spy should have alternatives in Playstyles so he won't be countered by "Just looking back" or a complete rework. I'd just give him melee random crits immunity.
@@_the_spy_8867 spy SHOULD have alternative playstyles, i agree. But spy’s purpose isnt to get large killstreaks, spy’s purpose is to disrupt the enemy team(destroying sentry nests, stopping pushes by medic dropping, preventing a sniper from picking your medic by killing etc.) so your team can win. If you have done that part, dying isnt an issue anymore because you GREATLY helped your teams victory. As a possible balance for the kunai, i’d say bring back the old kunai where if gave you exactly the amount of health that the victim had(5 HP gain on stabs to player that had 5HP, or 100 HP on 100 health targets) with a 100HP limit per stab(so you dont get 300 HP when stabbing a heavy)
If only the Spy did have something else aside from his Knives and Invis Watch. Like a revolver that is surprisingly effective. The ability to shoot enemies and live, flee and lure, or backstab.
You have to remember the Spy can use the Cloak and Dagger to stand in a corner and report everything the enemy team is doing and do call outs. Ambassador Spy lets you pump out 600 damage before needing to reload if you time this with enemies pushing into your team it is massive. The Diamond Back rewards you for destroying the Teleporter and focusing on harassment over key picks letting you pump out massive damage. The Enforcer lets you destroy damage resistant enemies or keep down pesky Engineers.
You can choose who and how you want to harass them, Spy naturally is set up to create your own Playstyle and if you're countered by just looking back as your major issue then play with your team or use the revolver. Other play styles then just backstab.
It is 1:30 AM and i should be asleep, but fuck it new Lon'qudor video
If someone says that spy is weak he mostly doesnt mean that he is useless. A weak class only means that he is just not good in a 1v1 against other classes. Every class in tf2 exept for medic has the better cards when fighting him and that is on design. he has the potential to give the team tons of information, disabling/destroying sentry nests and also has the ability to deal more damage than sniper at the cost of that he dies really fast if he gets caught out.
If u dont disguise as friendly Hoovy, u are playing spy not effectively.
At that point you are playing as the devil
@@yahyagd5637still better than kunai Deadringer trickstabbing Spies
@@lebollsong then you aren't playing as the devil you are playing as the manifestation of hell
A poor spy blames his knife
I agree on people not playing him to his full strenghts, missing the mark its a team game... but he is the weakest link and kinda nerfed. Dont get me wrong, i lost count of how many matches ive made the winning move with spy, be it back capping, destroying a nest or the right pick at the right time, all that regardless of score (even bottom, like just getting in a match and saving the day). But that doesnt change the facts:
-The average skill in the game is way waaay higher then the reality on launch and what devs had in mind. Spy checking, people aware of even the tiniest hints to someone being spy, its mucle memory by now; And thats harsh when theres ZERO consequence to shooting/hitting your allies... come on the strongest counter is turning, wich btw every class can do with 0 cost, 0 effort.
-Said skill and the player number increase from the initial design means way more projectiles, chaos and splash damage all around...
-While the maps are designed around chokes. All things that hit your cloak and spy have no way to passthrough or around hitboxes... So youre slowly moving through map allowed side paths in very fast paced game, sometimes with game advancing very quickly- also in many maps said paths to the backline are thenselves chokes, easily defended or cluttered
-Its the single class that gets massively hurt and nerfed by even a single other stack. 1 more spy imediatly reduces your effectivity, 2 or more... its exponential id say
-The game done the spy dirty, from darwin shield, piss, fire, pyro bros that can take out sapper...
-And on top of it all crits and melee crits for everyone
We can play him for the team and do well playing REALLY well, but that is despite the design flaws and weaknesses more then thanks to it. He was already the hardest to learn and master but the ratio of skill and luck to performance-impact raised way more with all the collective baggage+changes in the game. And heck tf2 still gives everyone 'wallhacks' that detect spy on spawn.
Maybe if his sapper wasnt useful just against 1 class... maybe if he had some sort of ping to convey intel (bypassing voice chat people rarely use, or fake using weapons or reloading easier... or heck some extra resistance when disguised, being to taunt...
tldr: you have skill issue
Spy is objectively the weakest class. Doesnt mean hes the best hes just the weakest, still my favorite and ive sunk hours into him so i top score alot but he does have a few fundemental problems with consistency
It's not that spy is weak, it's that every other class is strong. Like yeah sure I COULD put all this effort in to stabbing this medic, OR I could rocket jump in as soldier and take him out in 6 seconds flat. I don't really see this as a problem though because he's fun to play as anyways.
Every class can counter Spy but Spy can also counter any class
I like to imagine the best competitive spy perusing UA-cam one day, scrolling down his feed to read "Spy Isn't Weak, You're Just Not Playing Him Effectively". bro is judging our spy gameplay telepathically
You're portraying spy as this underdog class no one knows how to play effectively and thus collectively think he's the weakest. That's just wrong lol.
Spy is the weakest because he has the most ammount of downtime of _any_ class to get things done. He has to wait a hot minute to go for a play, usually die after and wait again for another opportunity. All the while being the worst 1v1 class in the game aside from medic.
He is either doing that or giving info to his team (which still isn't the most useful thing a class can do)
Your mistake is thinking ppl don't know how to play the class. They absolutely do. And they know for a fact that if a highlander league imposed a rule where you could opt out of a class, every single top team would get rid of spy
It’s sad how the most complex class in the game is played in mostly one way by the general playerbase, and treated as weak because of it. You are supposed to adapt as spy. Trying the same tricks over and over again lead to consistent failure. This video really showcases how spy isn’t weak and has a lot of potential.
Eeeeeeh I'd say that Spy is a little TOO weak because valve kind of neglected the class. (ahem spawning wallhacks giving away disguised spies, the locust swarm of bugs that follow the spy, the lack of unlocks that significantly change his playstyle to handle different situations)
You can mitigate the spawning wallhacks by disguising as someone on your own team and only cloaking when you are near the front lines, this saves on cloak and hides the fact that there's a spy from the enemy 😎
Spy's effectiveness depends on enemy awareness and spychecking - but when the enemy is engaged by your teammates, it can be impossible to check for spies without dying for it. If strength is defined by consistency across situations, no one wins, except Soldier. Not to mention the fact that only Spy has a weapon dedicated to instakills which does not rely on any damage threshold. Least useful class, maybe. But he isn't weak.
1:05 Yeah you're playing him inefficiently
I love playing disguise spy because it feels like playing classic among us but I'm always impostor
>HARD< I believe is what i said not weak
"Sniper isn't overpowered class, You just suck at dodging."
Johntohil2 with his spy psychology series: am I a joke to you?
Woah woah woah, 2 AM upload? Still, great video man.
Also spy is weak in the same way a medic is weak despite having regeneration. Its the lack of damage output, especially if the team is aware.
1:49 i don't know how old this footage is but you may get disguise smoke from disguising first and then going invis,
This is just How to Play Spy for Beginners. He's still weak.
Finally, it's been said.
Okay so I know 99% of TF2's playerbase plays casual but
Spy is actually not weak in Casual, he's just weaker than the rest. Yes he definitely gets boosted by the fact that some people are clueless in Casual and fall to his shenanigans quite often, but him being a pick class that also has to be in melee range to kill makes it so that he needs to pick his targets way more carefully than sniper. Sniper just shits back and his biggest worry is a spy or a bombing soldier, otherwise he just clicks on heads. But spy, especially if the enemy has a good pyro needs to be super careful with who he stabs.
Now in Competitive on the other hand (I will be talking exclusively on HL not offclassing in 6s) spy is extremely strong. Because there's one of each class on the enemy, and everyone is guaranteed to be a good player his choice boils down to: "Does the enemy Medic have uber or is Sniper terrorizing my team at the moment?" Yes you can argue that he dies more often due to the existence of a good pyro or the fact people communicate in comp, but trading a spy for their Med/Sniper is a huge win!
This all can definitely apply to casual as well just like you said, but because you're fighting 12 people instead of 9 its way wayyyyy harder! But there's a reason 90% of callouts in comp revolve around spy and sniper. Because they're the scariest classes to lose track of.
Why am I saying all this? Because spy is in fact not weak. Yes he's the weakest in the game but that doesn't mean anything. He's one of the strongest if he plays his cards right because again.. One life for losing uber is a worthwhile trade! The reason y'all think he's weak is because you just disguise as scout run in with your dead ringer active and then try to trickstab everyone with your 70 health and kunai. Yeah, brother, they can shoot you. Screw all you casual kunai spies. I'm so tired of you lot doing the same thing over and over and complaining. Where's my stock spy enthusiasts at?
Not even just stock, good positioning when a team fight starts let Ambassador or Diamond Back safely pump out 100 damage a shot at a rate that makes Soldier jealous. If you make use of tools other then Kunai and Dead Ringer Spy can be scary. People forget he has a Revolver, one that can be very potent and not just a Cloak Battery.
Spy has options, people just neglect them horridly.
as a heavy who also plays a lot of spy i respect the heavy to spy main transition
My effective loadout is the letrange(however the hell you spell it)
Stock watch
And the YER
And these weapons basicially help me never ever be noticed by anyone but those i have already killed,like i have gotten away with so many dumb things because i knew to fold at the right time
yer is peak
guess what, your team is gone and that isn't your medic
@@Adachi69420 agreed
it’s spelled “l’étranger” i’m pretty sure, though i’m pretty sure you don’t really care all that much but i just thought i’d help. (also peak loadout)
@@NonObjectiveName thanks for helping with the spelling and also thanks for the rating
Let's go!! New video!! Hi Lon'qudor!!
I'm pretty sure the same goes for spy in MvM. A lot of people just don't know just how valuable he can be and his value increases as more scary priority targets show up.
And yet he's still the weakest class in MvM.
@@Artician Not by a lot. Certainly not as much as some people think.
Spy has the quality of taking focus off the enemy team with his precense. I think that's value in itself. I think to better attain that he should have 150 base health (Kunai should remain as it is with 70 health, 210 overheal) to better dip out of situations after getting a backstab or sapping a building. That is the most simple way Valve can buff Spy without putting in too much work.
Alternatively I think it would be cool if his sapper got an additional function. Have him deploy it as a small antenna that reveals the location of nearby enemies to Spy's teammates. It should be relatively simple for the enemy to destroy it, because it should make a beeping noise that allows enemies to track it down, but that is a positive for Spy, as he is now baiting enemies away from the objective to deal with this pest, allowing him to take on enemies in 1v1 where he excels.
Maybe that's too annoying to play against, but I'd love for it to be a part of Spy's basic kit to provide information to his teammates from behind the enemy lines.
Spy is not weak but neither strong. He's average. You either play spy with the 3 cotroversial weapons or you play traditional and choose your fights wisely. Even I a ku*ai player run away when I see that there is no chance for me to continue killing.
Here's why people use the dead ringer; It's overpowered. SHOCKER, I know, but I just ran a 21-2 KD game as a hyper aggressive all stock spy, but just swapping for the dead ringer. I get these sorta scores pretty often. Even when I don't play aggressively, I use dead ringer. Why? Well, I don't need to slowly crawl my way behind the back lines when I could take 1 damage and I'm there in seconds. I wait just long enough before engaging so when I eventually get caught out, guess who has a get out of jail free card? ME.
Is Spy weak? Yeah, if you play him like you're supposed to. He's super weak.
The dead ringer isn't overpowered lmao
Dead ringer is not op, it is just easy to abuse and reward you for being bad
As one of the few surviving spy mains who hasn’t digressed into dead ringer + kunai, it’s frustrating watching people be blatantly awful at spy before calling him a bad class.
He’s effective. He’s well equipped for his job. It’s not the enemy pyros fault you walked directly at him while treating your disguise as an invisibility watch. It’s not the enemy snipers fault your decloaked right beside his ear making him obliterate you with jarate.
I haven’t even bothered learning trickstabs yet, because I can already consistently topscore. Just play spy how he’s intended, and you’ll find he’s actually a useful class.
My weakest attribute as a Spy main: greed.
Spy is a challenge, supposed to be hard to play.
Of course he's not weak. The problem is he's ridden with bugs the player can't be aware of.
Seeing some of the comments not realize the Revolver exists or is a viable weapon is why people think he is weak.
They are obsessed with that juicy backstab and forgetting they have a team, forgetting there is an objective. Many revolvers boost damage from certain criteria which reward positioning and timing letting you pump out 100 damage hitscan shots while the enemies are distracted by your team. If you're dealing with Pyros there is a nice trick as a Revolver and Spycicle combo lets you outgun them in point blank range.
Anti-Engineer Spy can use the Diamond Back and YER to decimate Engineers. Dead Ringer can help with this. Buildings are static, so you can Disguise safely around a corner, wait for your cloak to recharge, then go stab the Engineer and sap his buildings. Dead Ringer out of there and you now have 2-3 Crits. Crits you can empty on an enemy who chased you or kill the Engineer at range or their Medic at range. Yes YER reduces Cloak Effectiveness, but so what? You destroyed the Sentry nest and they need a Pyro specifically to counter this. A Pyro who needs to focus on the buildings over you giving you potentially 2 kills or an easier escape.
Stop being a solo Spy, coordinate stuff like this by listening to when combat starts. If you're close enough to combat then enemies wasting ammo chasing shadows means reloading in the team fight that is happening or your entire team versus 70% of theirs.
As a spy main that has a decent kdr and generaly gets at least one kill before he dies, i need to say that effectivly any class with any weapon can get atleast one kill if you play well enough but spy is a glass canon, he is designed to be both strong and weak. At base he is the weakest class and often times gets quicky killed of by more adept close range classes.
Git gud doesnt apply to the random and chaotic shit that simply kills you in seconds.
Spy dies too easly due to him not being able to output high enough dps. I love gunspy but hitting all 5 shots on a scout is really uncommon even for me
Spy is good but I hate it when half the team decided to go spy too
Imo I agree in stacks some people say that he is worse better the communication is. I disagree if both teams k ow when and where you pick someone even if you don't escape you made the enemy team fight on your terms.
Diamondback is the best gun in every situation.
as a spy main i can confirm
also hi again its been like half a year
Fr, I've been trying to learn how to play spy. Still failing 😭😞
How to play spy for real is to go sniper with jarate and bushwacka and sneak behind someone throw jarate and get the crit from the bushwacka
And then die because you have no cloak and disguise and i doubt the enemy team would let you behind them
The moment you peak out of cover, the sentry turn you into swish cheese
@@binheve and if the enemy team is dumb enough to let you behind them, you might aswell play ninjaneer so that your entire team can make it behind and insta win
@@Soupnator hell, might as well stack soldier or heavy and blast us or ussr anthem in voice chat to both win and have extreme fun
Weak vs weakest are very different as many people are pointing out. But I also think the idea that spy is the weakest class is very overblown. In top level highlander spy isn't particularly weak. And even if you just consider what class is weakest at being a carry in pubs I would say pyro is weaker any day. Pryo has very very strong win more mechanics but not as strong of carry mechanics.
Bro its 3 am
I'm glad I'm not only one who think this
I disguise as friendly pyro and sniper to scare and distract enemy
I also unironically disguise as friendly medic to confuse enemy
i am a spy main this is so true.
6:41 wait thats me in the chat lol fun game
sniper does everything spy does but better
Spy is unequivocally weak. Every class at least has good options to fight back if caught out. Spy though is heavily reliant on enemies not knowing he is there to the point that it's his primary playstyle.
The points you offered help make this crippling issue less terrible, but you're still better off just picking a sniper since he is as, if not more, effective and is far more safe.
spy is just outclassed in his role. both sniper and soldier are much better for securing important picks compared to spy.
Spy is "weak" but that doesn't mean he isn't powerful
in the right situation, he can be powerful. i still find him weak because of experienced players.
If your enemies are not 10 h fresh installs then yeah Spy is not weak. But if you play against average casual players with years of experience, you won't have a good time.
6:18 Like these are the example clips we get.... This player completely ignore the spy for like 10 seconds and then gets stabbed. "See how strong he is".
Even the best players can get caught by a spy. I know all of you guys love your trickstabbing and basically never using disguises but just beig careful with who you kill can really make him effective.
If you class is soft countered by looking behind, it's a weaker class.
the first argument and it's straight up shit - pyro effortlessly ruins everything you can do as a spy to not get caught
spy is a weak, *luck based* class
Spy gets his main survival tool entirely disabled by any form of debuff or sustain damage. Of course, he should die when caught, but should he really be exposed by a single flame particle when pyro can produce hundreds per minute?
I mostly agree with the content of the video, but the title is rather unfitting.
Edit: also i forgot spawn wallhacks revealing him
But all debuff timers are halved when cloaked. So if you get burned or recealed via jarate, its only gonna last half as long. Also spy is faster than pyro so most of the time you can outrun his fire
@@Soupnator still more than enough time to kill a spy, also pyro can easily kill before the spy exits his flamethrower range, also pyro has flare guns and shotguns.
@@davidmingle5910 but pyro is your natural hard counter. There are ways to escape a pyro, but you’ll die most of the time if not all(which is expected because he’s your hard counter)
this good
Can’t accidentally say something in global chat if you can’t chat at all haha!
Please help, I’ve done nothing but sit in silence watching my teammates get picked off one by one over and over again for three years. It’s like a recurring nightmare that I can’t wake up from.
our only option is to trade for a premium gift
Spy is weak by design- he's absolutely fucked when he's caught, which is why cloaking and disguises exist. The conundrum that Spy is weak comes around when you meet those that do not utilize cloak or disguising to its fullest, which is like the majority of Spy mains in TF2, if the Kunai + Dead Ringer Spy in that one TF2 lobby you just joined is any indication.
Fishing video when?
Guilty Gear Strive video when?
Fire Emblem Three Houses character tier list when?
Oh here we go again........
I have over 3k hours on spy alone. He's weak. Weak can still be fun but still, Sniper is better every time hands down
anyone who thinks spy is weak is more than likely a soldier or demo main, or a heavy main.. all im saying
so basically what im doing wrong is that im a casual player and not a competitive player, because all competitive players do the stuff that your saying but I dont.
I feel like that you misunderstood what people mean when saying that spy is weak
Is heavy strong at moving around? Is pyro strong at long range combat? Is scout a bullet sponge (without bonk)? No? Then why would any rational thinking person would call him weak?
What’s that hud???
yeah I'm still not going to play spy
Pov: Average spy main cope.
I don't know who is this meant for.
All the 10k hour casuals aren't watching this hoping to learn something but to have background noise to drawn out tinnitus as they sleep with a shotgun replica under their pillow. The substance of tf2 videos has become completely immaterial to them as they've reached early retirement.
All the new players already know how the class works and aren't in disagreement at all because they get bent over backwards by competent players for 2 hours like it's a date night at a gay bar.
Comp players are rolling their eyes because they haven't felt their rear in months due to spinal disc herniation caused by excessive sacking. Getting killed by a spy is indistinguishable from a skybombing roamer homing in for the kill - both are kamikaze tactics, just that one doesn't require you to play 5v6 until the right moment strikes and isn't being held back by your position getting leaked to the other team by government surveillance drones.
I feel like this is an imaginary argument with game designers trying to understand the game through AI generated screenshots. Spy is about as enjoyable as a heroin addiction and is as balanced as a ladder on a surfing board. Good for flexing against morons if you have the skill but suboptimal in a serious competition.
Amazing comment.
@@MysticSoapy My pleasure.
Spy is weak
Spy is kinda similar to Scout he is a pick class kill someone get out over extended you are dead and that is the point of Spy if you get caught you die that is why people call Spy weak he instantly dies if he someone breaths into his general direction
if scout is a pic class, soldier, demo, heavy, etc would be a pick class
@@John-merman Well soldier is kinda of a pick class but demoman heavy and basicaally everyone except Scout and Spy
Of course you can over extend but most of the time if you do you will die these classes are suppose to go kill someone important like a medic and run away
Spy is weak, he is not useless or inefficent however, they are very different things.
Spy is the weakest class, which means by picking spy you are selecting an option that when in comparison to all other options is "weak" by comparison.
Spy is completely servicable as a class and I enjoy him but saying he's not weak because in a vacuum he's well designed is dishonest to say because you are looking at the class as an individual rather than seeing the big picture where you compare his potential power to every other option available
I can say Spy is Weak but also say Spy is Effective and those statements are not mutually exclusive, you can be weak and effective at the same time.
I'd argue though that spy NEEDS to be weak or else he wouldn't be spy. If you could just run in guns blazing you aren't playing spy (aka if you're a kunai ringer spy) because you aren't insensitivized to play to the classes strengths of stealth, misdirection, and paranoia. Because of the fact spy is weak if you're not using kunai ringer you have to actually play smart and while some people say this is a downside I personally view this as an upside due the fact that once the enemy team knows there is a spy them not seeiny you is worrying. Maybe you're behind them, maybe you're not, but by playing with spys weaknesses in mind you make it so they rarely ever see you when you're not killing them causing an effect where people will shoot at one another more and turn randomly, both of which wastes enemy resources and time no matter how minimal.
This is because spy is weak, they know if they find a spy they can kill him so it gives the enemys a sort of side mission of "find the spy" which distracts them and splits their priorities, the better the spy is the more this happens as players start actively hunting for him and checking random corners wasting even more time and resource. If the spy was traditionally strong the method would probably just become avoid the spys area like what sniper causes or stay together on point, the opposite of what you want as spy. By being weak people will split off to random hallways to look for you, people wouldn't do that if your were a strong up close 1v1 class.
TlDr Spy is weak, and that's a good thing because being weak doesn't make you not effective.
i like speye
There is also the fraze that spy is a bad class, i disagree, spy is not bad, spy is situational
he not weak :)
It's Me
Din't wach the video but spy is a glass canon not good at allot of stuff but when you'r back is open you dead
He's still just a worse and weaker sniper in every way, shape or form.
i disagree
yeah. i think they should remove spy from the game
No, he's weak. Comparatively to the other 8 classes he is clearly the weakest.
Hello
Hello
I LOVE YOU.
I joke of cource , but seriously.
I am so tired of hearing "SPY IS A BAD CLASS" for 20 times a day.
From people who only disguise as scout and decloacked right behind the enemy.
I've had better videos reflected to me in my toilet bowl.
Grift.
Spy is only weak when u have a skill issue which applies for all classes its like me saying direct hit or the sniper is weak when i cant hit anything. Is it weak? No do i have a skill issue? Yes also in casual kunai is the best at anything i dont think it needs a nerf cuz its the only fun knife that lets u surf sentries and there is much bigger offenders of balance like the vacc,sniper,phlog,banner soldis,turtle engis these need focus fire and so does the kunai spy i only see the risky glass canon get called braindead and unfair and its only recently like its been in the game for ages bruh.