Of course 14 KG wouldn’t have led them to winning. Father Time catches up to Garnett faster. This a trash take and I seen someone else make it too. Just shows Duncan had better longevity
@@jerryspringer3343 dude if you actually watched the damn games you would see that Tim was effective because of his style of play. Tim was old as fuck too and it showed. If you didn’t know he and KG are the same age so Father Time had everyone. Tim however was able to find new ways to be effective at a championship level. KG in 2014 was actually still decent however he was not even close to a championship level player that you could rely on. And your talking like the ability to remain effective at an advanced age doesn’t mean anything. It’s not everything sure, but there is a reason KG wasn’t as effective. It’s because he relied not only on athleticism more but he didn’t master the tools of basketball that don’t require athleticism as well as Tim did. Basketball is a skill game as well as an athletic game. when the athletic part goes you see who has the skill. KG was plenty skilled Tim was just better. If you disagree come with a reason instead of random shit talking.
@@bboywolf 99 Knicks had 2 guys who could drop 40 on you on any given night and a deep bench. Spurs beat them in 5. 03 Nets had the best point guard in the league and an elite defense, not to mention the Spurs that season were not talented whatsoever. Spurs beat them in 6. 05 Pistons were arguably better than the 04 team that won the chip. Spurs beat them in 7. 07 Cavaliers had a red-hot LeBron and a great defense. Spurs sweep them. 14 Heat had peak LeBron and were playing for a three-peat. Spurs beat them in 5. And don't get me started on the numerous West powerhouses they had to beat to get there.
Tim Duncan played the game and nothing more. He wasn't flashy and he wasn't a "baller" so of course people aren't going to give him the respect he deserves. Some of the younger NBA players won't give Duncan his due because again he wasn't flashy, wasn't dressing to impress the media or a loudmouth or looking to sleep around. He was there to play ball.
Yup. And unlike many of the guys in his generation having careers in media and would defend themselves from stupid takes on their careers, he couldn't care less and doing his own thing and dgaf about any of it.
@@malikwilson7387he did not get carried kawhi struggled the first couple games. He couldn’t even break 10 pts. Timmy held his own. Im pretty sure he averaged a double double in the finals
@@AkaHoodie that's a lie Kawhi shut Lebron Down and Tim Duncan was old and could barely keep up and Duncan always had the best role players Duncan is a system player
Once every couple months oldheads try to put some "real baller PFs" ahead of Duncan 😂 KG and AD are the usual suspects Yet the closest we've had since (Giannis) isn't brought to the discussions cause "he doesn't have a bag" 😂😂😂
@@ocanaldojj Which is funny because Giannis is so skilled that every time the do a " skilled Big man moment" video , people are saying : " Giannis does that every time in every game" and the usual response is " yeah but Giannis is not really a big man (PF/C) , he is more like a SF". Showing even more how good Giannis is with his ball handling, passing, playmaking to the point they don't feel like he is a big man
@@JoshuaHopkins-j9o for real! Duncan literally was so elite on defense, he didn't have to leave the floor to be extremely effective at protecting the rim because he understood positional defense and angles and didn't need to gamble or overplay. Offensively he was Lamarcus Aldridge on steroids with unlimited stamina. Absolutely automatic within 20 ft with underrated foot speed and completely ambidextrous.
@@hiz24airness ... His personality too... all the things. Can't say enough about the guy. I'll tell you... if you haven't watched the "Making the Case" videos... the one for Tim Duncan almost had me sold on the "goat" argument for him... almost ;-) ua-cam.com/video/h-QQSn21nVo/v-deo.htmlsi=MPddmfvcSf3N4CHj If you haven't seen it
@@hiz24airnesswhy are yall glazing Duncan a guy who was a system player carried by elite role players Greg popovich said Manu would be averaging 25 points a game on any other team
Yup, I’ve had this convo before, Tim played 10 of his 19 seasons at center, you take all 10 of those seasons and scrub that from his record (that includes 2 titles) he is still the head and shoulders best power forward ever off his first 9 seasons alone.
i feel like people have a bias towards guardskillsets. Like if u aint good at dribbling u aint better. Tim had better post moves and footwork, yes it was ugly asf but it was efficient and effective.
He is appropriately rated... the best PF of all -time. Anyone who knows anything about basketball understands that he is the best PF to ever play... there are guys who may have been better at or at individually... Tim was the whole 📦 and is only "underrated" by morons. To the other guys comment... Tim's game wasn't flashy... but calling it "ugly" is the same kinda nuts
I swear just like 8 months ago people were calling Tim underated. He is the only player in NBA history who sways in the "Underrated" or "Overrated" constantly year after year.
Spurs were title contenders in Duncan's rookie year. Had D-Rob deferred to Duncan more and accepted that he was 1B at best against the Jazz, it would've been a Spurs-Bulls final.
td averaged more pts, rebounds, blocks, shot better from the field, has 4 more championships, has 3 finals mvps compared to kgs 0, more 1st team all nba appearances, more all nba teams in general, more all defense teams than kg, and 1 more mvp. the only thing kg has that duncan doesn’t have is a dpoy even tho duncan has the most all defense appearances without a dpoy.
Wat u just did somebody who never watched basketball a day in thier life could do 😂 naming accolades and reading off stats and nothing abt how they actually played basketball, we gotta be better than this 😂
You’re comparing career averages when Garnett came into the league as a high schooler. If you compare their age 22 season up through their age 35 season you’re basically looking at the same player in terms of averages, except that Duncan averaged 0.8 blocks more (Garnett 1.4 to Duncan’s 2.2) and Garnett was 10% better from free throw, averaged 1 assist more per game and averaged more steals (1.3 to Duncan’s 0.7). PPG: Identical, eFG%: Identical, Rebounds: Identical. Their stat lines look as close as 2 players can get. Championships? Find me a player who was on Garnett’s team that was as good as David Robinson still was in their first championship year? Closest you get to that is Terrell Brandon until Sam Cassell came that one year. His next best players were Wally Szczerbiak and a 33-34 year old Latrell Sprewell. A couple of years he got left off the All-NBA team for Carlos Boozer and Shawn Marion, you mean to tell me these players were better than him? Guess what? Voting on those award was hugely based on record and none of those players were the best or EVEN SECOND-BEST players on their teams (Nash/Stoudemire and DWill/AK47) A huge part of your post can be easily attributed to roster, man stop you don’t even try to put any context. And I’m not saying Garnett is better than Duncan, but to act like comparing the two is somehow slanderous or out of the question is downright stupid. KG doesn’t get his fair due
@@Slitherman96Be quiet Casual. In Garnetts rookie year he was the 5th leading scorer and his first 3 years Tom Gugliotta was the leading scorer. Hell David was only the leading scorer Tims rookie year and then the 2nd year Duncan took over because David wasnt elite anymore. If David was elite like you said, how come in 2000, the very same championship core got Gentleman's swept in the 1st round by an injured Suns team that had to call Kevin Johnson out of retirement when Duncan tore his meniscus?? David as the 1st option shot 37% against Cliff Robinson and a old Luc Longley
@@Jolteon1989 Wow, you mean to tell me that at a time when coming out of high school was still a novelty that a unpolished rookie KG who averaged 4 less shots and 8 less minutes than Gugliotta (a man 7 years his senior and in his 4th year in the league) scored less points? Wow that's shocking. You're also telling me that a 27 year old all-star who averaged 2 more shots a game and played a position up from KG and played closer to the basket and averaged DOUBLE the amount of free throws also scored more PPG than 2nd-year 20 year old still unpolished learning player competing against grown men? Wow quite the feat! Wow, in the third year a Gugliotta who played half the games KG did and averaged 2 (count em, 1, 2, a whole 2, that's a lot!) was somehow more valuable than a now-21 year old who played EVERY single game that season and was also getting DPOY shouts? You must be right! Everyone knows the only thing that matters in basketball is scoring! Defense barely shows up in the box score, it's basically meaningless.
@@Jolteon1989 Wow guess what? It would appear that both Garnett and Duncan became the leading scorers of their respective teams at the very same age. Apparently if you're not the leading scorer, you can't be a valuable player for your team. David Robinson was not a good player when they won because he only averaged 15 and a half points and that's less than Tim. Defense? Never heard of it, it's barely on the box score. Huh? Defensive rules? What would that have any bearing on a team with two great rim protectors? I'm going to stop playing this dumb game with you and slow roll it for you so that you understand. Never have I called that late period David Robinson "elite". That's one. Two, David Robinson shot like shit for the majority of that series, no question. When the series was tied? He had the best game of anyone on the court, easily too. But they still lost, whatever it happens. Three, how about you actually compare KG and Duncan at similar ages and when they're actually playing at a high level? Because you know what? I did and their stat lines are damn near as identical as any 2 players get. So stfu talking about casual while you conveniently ignore any context that would give any balance to the conversation
That’s false low himself even said it. KG is the better individual player. However if we talking resumes and nba success Tim Duncan is the better player and that’s just facts
If you were born before the year 2000 then you know that LOW is telling the truth when he says that NO ONE was making the "Garnett>Duncan" argument when those guys were actually playing
Doubt that, there was always a bias. People forget how the Spurs would never get their credit despite their dominance during the early 2000's. People also forget this duncan disrespect seems to always happen because this conversation was happening when he was playing too.
@@shamwaw336 Duncan's was compared to shaq not Garnett. Duncan has ALWAYS been better than Garnett. Manu and Parker were average in the 2000s. 2010s is were Manu and Parker were at their peaks but still compared to other guards, they were NEVER elite.
@@dillonsparks115 I agree. He was typically viewed as top 10 after 2010 run. Top 5 or even top 3 is recency bias. He was known as a ball hog and spent most of his latter years in the league proving Shaq didn't carry him. Kinda like what KD tried to do surrounding his legacy with Steph
@@jahkrmusic yea kobe got alot better as a teammate and shared the rock alot better after 2010 and I started to enjoy his game alot more after he matured and grew up became alot more likable
@@mamadoubarrie6607KG is easily my favorite player from the 2000s but the convo always goes the wrong way. I’ve defended KG for years saying that he’s closer to Duncan than Dirk is to him in terms of individual play and impact on the floor. But now that people are starting to realize how good KG really was, and have gone too far when talking about Duncan. Yes Duncan played for a better organization. Yes he had better teammates. Yes he had a MUCH better coaching staff and stability all around. But he was still a demon as an individual player. I think people for some reason think about old Timmy when discussing him and see him as just a guy that “played the right way”. But peak Duncan (99-04ish) was an unreal talent. He impacted the game differently than KG did, but impacted it just as much if not more nonetheless.
@@will-vp9ng oh 100 percent. Relative to KG tho he still had much more stability. I’ll put it this way, if they swapped places, I think Duncan gets more out of his teamates and organization than KG did in Minnesota, but it would still get worse than SA. Duncan spearheaded the culture in SA along with Pop but others still had to do their job at a high level for that culture to work. I think they do a worse job in Minnesota.
@@will-vp9ng I agree with that part too. Duncan seemed to be a different type of leader. With that said, I blame the Kawhi situation on him and his uncle. The Spurs probably could have handled it better, and Tony Parker definitely should have kept his mouth shut. But at the same time, Kawhi has shown on multiple accounts that he’s going to put himself and his career first (which I’m not saying is a bad thing). But I don’t think it goes differently on any other organization. He does not care about communicating with the team and never has.
@@will-vp9ng that’s why I don’t think it was a San Antonio thing though. Those doctors aren’t looking out for you to be at optimal health. They are going to clear you if they see you are just healthy enough to play. Especially during that time, the standard has gotten a little higher over time.
For real my grandma would always joke about the Spurs greatest play give it to Tim Duncan, and he’ll figure it out 😂 it really wasn’t until Tim Duncan got old that he couldn’t carry the team by himself that pop started innovating and getting a legit offensive philosophy
Every legend without a media presence is being disrespected. Tim is the best PF of all time. 99,9% of all discussions about the nba are pure nonsense + waste of time.
As a Spurs fan, I am APPALLED by this. I thought that Timmy D was getting the respect he deserves since people have started putting him in or just outside their top 10. Unfortunately, I was wrong. How does the best player all time at a position get underrated and disrespected so much? 😭
I would say if you get a little deep into the nba fanbase, he is regarded as a Top 5 all-time 🔒 but sometimes the casuals will throw his name Top 10 but give bad reasons why he’s barely making the list for bias or hypocritical reasons towards him
I need people to understand, in the 03 playoffs the year they won the chip Tim lead the spurs in Points, rebounds, assists, and blocks. David robinson was the only person on the starting lineup shooting above 41% that entire playoffs and he was only playing 23 minutes a game at that point. Tim duncan has pretty much the same exact career numbers as KG and FAR BETTER playoff numbers. This idea that tim was a 15 point a game role player who just got lucky with his team is complete propaganda
Complete facts. Arguably the greatest carry ever. Duncan was insane from 98-07. Dudes just believe guys like Manu and Parker were All-Star caliber their whole careers
As someone who grew up watching both in their prime Duncan was demonstrably better. Duncan put the entire team on his back on both ends of the floor and had to go up against all the great squads in the west.
This is similar to the dame and curry argument. Where they say dame would win the same amount of chips and accolades if he was on the warriors when in reality the reason the likes of Klay and dray could flourish how they did was because of who curry was as a player. It’s the same with Duncan. Tony and manu wouldn’t be as revered as they were if not for Duncan so to think you could just throw another player in there and get the same result is ridiculous.
I almost agree, KG and Duncan have comparable games but the only thing Dame has in common with Steph is ridiculous range and great handles. Thats it! Dame can't compete with Curry's defense, off ball game, screen setting, gravity, rebounding, passing or strength.
The ‘03 Spurs are a prime example to judge a Superstar’s supporting cast based on actual production and level of play rather than the name on the back of the jersey. Which you should always do btw.
Who's to say KG would agree or like pop's system 🤷 on paper Boston's big 3 looked better than Spurs big 3 and Spurs still got more chip's over KG, Pierce, and Allen. So that argument saying KG could have also won if he was on the Spurs is irrelevant considering Boston had more talent.
“Pop system” the reason why pop didn’t get fired in his first five seasons is because he miraculously drafted TD. TD saved his job and been carrying that system ever since. TD is the reason why the spurs winning. They starting winning and ended winning with TD
Tim Duncan literally asked to RUN POINT IN The finals against Miami and Pop let him do it a lil bit but that Borris Diaw, Patty Mills and Tony Parker job lol Why are we listening to Nick Young anyways this was never a high IQ player
I almost agree, KG and Duncan have comparable games but the only thing Dame and Harden have in common with Steph is ridiculous range and great handles. Thats it! They can't compete with Curry's defense, off ball game, screen setting, gravity, and Dame additional falls short on rebounding, passing and strength. Curry is leagues ahead of Dame and Harden, whereas KG wasn't quite Duncan but the gap isnt as huge. Its like comparing Kobe to Reggie Millar or Dwade.
I think the Spurs themselves as an organization get overrated when we talk about Duncan cause they were not some historic organization with an established great culture when they drafted Duncan in 1997. Pop was not a respected figure before Duncan came (watch Secret Base’s PRISM video on Pop) And they were constant playoff chokers before Duncan. Duncan, because he bought in to Pop’s philosophy when he could’ve easily just not, is the main reason the spurs are such a well respected organization. I don’t think Pop becomes the all time great, Mount Rushmore head coach he is now until the last 3-4 years of Duncan’s career when they become the unselfish team that they are known as. But from 1997-2008 that team was completely Duncan’s, and he was the catalyst for 4 championships, including 2003 which was the greatest season a power forward has ever had.
There's a legion of UA-camrs using Gilbert Arenas as a reference. Reminds me of the type of people 15 years ago who complained about Kardasians then went to the grocery store and grabbed the magazine at the checkout. The dude has no integrity and weirdly admitted on DJ Vlad that he says outlandish things to get people riled up. Imo Tim Duncan is top 5 alltime, I think he's better than Bill Russell and Magic Johnson. But there's a very simple reason he's gonna fade fast as the years go by. Let's pretend he had a better career than Kareem and Jordan too. You know why Duncan will be forgotten quickly? He's boring and he didn't sell shoes. It's that simple As someone who use to cape for him all through highschool. On my basketball team all my friends and teammates were either Chris Webber or KG fans. Shaq himself called Duncan "The Big Fundamental." Most people don't even know what that means, it's like trying to explain pick-and-roll coverages. People wanna relate to flashiness or something easy they can understand. "Yeah he won alot but" _____________ fill in the blank. TLDR: He's not exciting enough.
KG even talked about how great Tim Duncan was. This just shows that just because you played in the NBA doesn’t mean you know what you’re talking about.
Duncan started playing basketball late, too. I think he was a Junior in HS. I loved watching Tim Duncan when he was at Wake Forest. His game wasn't flashy but consistent on both sides of the ball. He played at a high level that most couldn't acknowledge.
It's funny that we have the "big fundamental" thing with Duncan and people forget that yeah, he was an athletic freak of his own and he was super strong and he could actually go toe-to-toe against Shaq in the post and he was that strong and that tough. Yes he had great fundamental skills, all the greats do, but he was also just a beast on the block.
Thank you for calling in Duncan disrespect and not Garnett glazing because that’s how you respect both of their greatness without ignoring the blatant truth that Duncan is with out a doubt better
People argue that without the Spurs, Duncan's legacy would be vastly different, would he have thrived on the Timberwolves? Would a KG-Duncan team switch have allowed KG to surpass Duncan's legacy? If they had switched teams, Duncan never would have gotten hurt in the 2000 playoffs. 2000 one of the most ignored injuries of all time, Tim Duncan's devastating lateral meniscus getting torn. A top 5 what if. As a rookie, Duncan's All-NBA First Team selection solidified his ability to win with anyone. Duncan looked different from his rookie year until a leg injury in 1999-2000, which derailed most his prime years and athleticism. The fact that he had a major knee injury that he never really recovered from in the early 2000s is a credit to the guy. He just adapted his game and kept dominating. Duncan's post-injury success is insane, almost unheard of in the NBA. Even after major injuries, Duncan 03 puts up the 5 greatest individual playoff runs ever (beating kobe and shaq with a rookie ginobolli, 20 year old Parker and 37 year old Robinson only avg 8 & played 20 min) 25/15/5/4 with God level defence out scoring your second option by 12 PPG.
i think the argument needs to be taken differently, I mean duncan came in after 4 years of college while kg came in out of highschool, I think that is the biggest factor here.
It helps a lot for a power forward to have a center like David Robinson early on that helped speed up the trajectory of a player like Duncan . They weren't called the next twin towers for nothing. Robinson was still a damn good player maybe not what he was but still highly effective later on in his career
The disrespect I’ve seen against Tim my whole life has driven me to be one of his biggest advocates. On most any list, Tim is considered the GREATEST PF of all time. A man that actually played center for most of his career. Look it up!!!!
You....are...da...MAN.... i think i yelled amen like 10 times!! this here is a smart man that was there with us watching these games!!! 110% credibility right here!
Tim Duncan was the only player I saw with the ability to match Lakers Shaq. Duncan never won less than 49 games for his entire career. Read this line twice. Duncan is one of the top 5 defensive players ever. (by basketball reference) If not for Pop taking him out of the game, he would be 6-0 in the finals. If Duncan wasn't the system, why cant Popovic win as much games per season since Duncan left the building?
The reason why I believe people Kevin Garnett over Tim Duncan is because Kevin Garnett portrays gangsterism Kevin Garnett was a great basketball player but because he promoted gangsterism Tim Duncan did not
1999 Tim Duncan was playing on par with rival PF & 1999 MVP Karl Malone. Tim dominated that 1999 Finals and nobody can name anybody on that roster besides David Robinson who was on the decline.
Never mind what they did on the court (although this also really isn't a debate in my eyes)- the Spurs wouldn't be what they were without Duncan's leadership. You can argue that Robinson started the system, but clearly Duncan perfected, lead, and maintained it from the moment his name was called in the draft.
Tim was a type of leader that can do the most with everything.... Something we've never seen until that taco bell commercial in 2014.. Neither Ginobili nor Parker would have been hall of famer with Garnett
They are wiiiild! I would almost 100% grantee, if every teams GM were given the chance to draft Timmy, or Kg (from rookie to retired) knowing how good they both are going to be, EVERYONE OF THEM would take Timmy. Thats not a slide at KG, its just the fact of how GOOD he was.
13:10 to put into better context: 2004- Game 5 was lost due to the Derek Fisher shot with 0.4 seconds left after Duncan made an impossible shot over Shaq; that shot CHANGED the outcome of that series. 2006: Spurs came back against the Mavs down 3-1 and would've won if not for the bonehead foul from Manu on Dirk that was and And-1 play that forced OT in game 7 which ended in a Spurs lost. One could argue that no matter the star play, Duncan or Garnett, certain situations happen to be out of their control.
I don’t even listen to Arenas talk about basketball anymore… for him to be so good at the game his analysis is ridiculous & nick young is WORSE.. I can’t even get through a full discussion of them
The versatility and athleticism of Duncan, especially In the first 3rd to half of his career gets vastly underrated. It’s kinda ridiculous. He was running the floor, putting the ball on the floor, defending all over the floor and dunking on cats. People act like Duncan was old man Parish or Bill Cartwright but Pop made him great lol
A lot of these clowns are too young to remember Duncan from '97-'07. Those were his best years when he was athletic and playing at a MVP level. I would say young people who are in the age range of 18-28 only got to see old man Duncan from '08-'16. They base their knowledge about Duncan from that time period.
the real defining question of who is better is, " What do you value more to determine which player is better, game impactfulness or overall skill?" This same question be taken to the MVP award when there are neck-and-neck candidates. IMO the GIls crew value more skill in determining better but they aren't completely oblivious and even Kenyon did nod to Duncan's impact in size match up for more impact but the value overall for them is skill and athleticism over fundamental and consistency.
This take is actually ridiculous. First off, LOW DIDNT MENTION Popovich, which is hard to believe, considering the calbier of coach he was. Secondly, San Antonio was a DEEP, DIFFICULT playoff team in the mid 90s before the got Duncan. Is Duncan better?? Probably. But its not that insane of a comparion. If Duncan goes to Minnesota its not like hes winning a ring there. At least NOT MORE than 1 MAX....
Popovich is garbage coach he's proven it since Kawhi left the Spurs. He's only as good as the players he has around him. Coaches in the NBA are grossly overrated. Using the Popovich card against Duncan is just a hater argument. You don't see people diminishing Kobe, MJ, Shaq, Magic, Jabbar's greatness because they were coached by Phil Jackson and Riley.
Garnett was a Jump shooter, Tim Duncan Stayed in his role as a PF , Kevin Garnett lived off of Long 2's Duncan was a low post force for real , and the better all around defender
Garnett low key overrated. People are stuck on his potential and don't watch what he did. People talk as if he was a proto KD offensively when he was really a more athletic Carlos Boozer.
Gil WAS speaking facts about kg though. He DID defer. He DID play hot potato with the basketball late in games. He DID shirk away from those responsibilities. The wolves were missing a late game shot maker and it was particularly difficult to build around KG-especially for the playoffs-because he WASN'T that. Its not a surprise he had the most success on teams with casell and then later pierce and allen.
Honestly whatever opinion Gil has, I will ALWAYS have the oposite one because that guy is a f*ing joke to me and everything coming out of his mouth is just garbage. 😂
Ironically, modern NBA teams have been asking their Big men for a long time now to play more like KG and less like Duncan... That speaks volume. There's nothing wrong in playing to your strengths. KG was a player ahead of his time and as such, the league at large didn't really understand how to utilize such a player to his best potential. The NBA was still in the era of Hakeem and Shaq when KG came into the league. Where if you were close to 7 feet, you were obliged to take your butt to the low post and call for the ball... When in reality, if you surrounded Garnett with space and a competent playmaker and let him just screen and fill in the gaps with his mobility, he'd be far more dominant on offense with a less crowded paint. The fact that he went out there and still averaged 20-25 points while having no space and a mass disadvantage because of his lean frame that he has to resort to fallaway jumpers speaks to his talent. As far as 'deferring' goes, that's definitely a myth. In 1999, his 2nd Playoff series as a 22 year old Garnett took significantly more shots in that series than Duncan... KG didn't have problems with being aggressive as a scorer, he just understood early on that he can't win 1v5 trying to imitate Duncan or Hakeem in the low block. He had more range than both those guys and a better handle, that's why he was often floating around in the mid range area. Nothing wrong with that IF you play in a time period where teams know how to take advantage of that... Unfortunately for Garnett, he did not. He played in a slow pace, low block era with poor understanding of space, bad shooting and perimeter talent, by and large. Imagine Garnett on the Suns in 2005 instead of Amare. That's a team that would play to his strengths. Elite point guard, shooting, playing a fast paced game.
@@itsnotgoingtoendwell And you can make the same argument for Duncan because the best player in the league(Jokic) plays like a slower, less athletic and defensive version of Duncan. And those Wolves teams were a run and Gun team. You should give that same what if for Duncan if he played in a faster system, because most of Duncan teams finishied in the bottom half of tge league in Pace until the 2010s. Garnett did defer alot because of the his body frame like you said. He didnt like physical contact while Duncan was taking the most punishment outside of Shaq during that era since he was the carrying those early 2000 Spurs teams
David Robinson in 99 is still a top 7 player in basketball 😂 U can think he better low that’s cool but let’s not be disingenuous and acting like Gugliotta was better than KG, frm yr 2 til he left KG was the best player on Minnesota
They’re gonna act like having another high level rim protector who could defend the paint (the most valuable real estate on the court) with Tim in the deadball era (where the ability to get points was its lowest in the modern NBA) doesn’t mean shit. Especially with a player as good as DRob still was, they called them the Twin Towers for a reason and they had the best defense in the league to show for it.
There are plenty of players in the league's history who I absolutely adore... but am also perfectly okay with someone shit talking their liabilities. Tim Duncan had 0 liabilities... best PF to ever do it
Whenever there is a debate or someone is making a point and they resort to a hypothetical you should stop listening immediately cause once the hypothetical is brought up everything that follows will be a whole lot of stupid.
This is only a topic of discussion because how they played. Tim Duncan not flashy but will put a 20 plus 10 plus stat on you immediately and quietly, KG gonna do the same and kill your confidence while he’s at it. Pick which one you’re more a fan of 🤷🏾♂️
Yo, somebody take Nick Young's mike. He clearly don't know what he's talking about and the fact that barely anybody pushes back on his bullshit. Also, this is absolutely the result of bag discourse. Honestly, I'm with Bsolz on this one. Bag really doesn't matter at all when it comes to who's better. It only matters if their stats and career success are relatively equal. If one leads the other in pretty much every category, and their respective careers aren't even close, then bag don't mean shit. Nobody has Kyrie in their top 20 all time. Oh, and Tim was one of the best defenders ever. Tim was still an elite rim protector at like, 37. In those Miami series
That does not wanna talk about the fact he didn’t even play with the big three for his first championship Tim Duncan did an absolute carry job for like the first couple years 😂
There talent is pretty relative I don't think it's disrespectful to say KG was the better talent, he was a better playmaker and shooter along with being extremely switchable. 1998-03 Tim was better than KG, but 04-08 I think KG was than Tim, and honestly after that they were fairly equal. I overall pick Tim because he's a better playoff performer but you can 100% blame on the trash team KG had. It's honestly not that bad of a take as long you admit they're close as talents and tim started better and ended his carrer better
06-07 Duncan was a better player, during that stretch, KG was struggling to keep his consistency individually while Duncan kept his relative… 2008 KG had a resurgence, even if his stats went down from Minnesota, the impact lifted thru his elite defense impact again and led Boston to a championship
This has always been the discussion since I’ve been watching ball. Tim had the better career but KG individually had a case for himself too. It just seemed to depend on who you preferred.
If anything, KG is underrated from 1998 to 2004, because people talk like he only became relevant as an MVP in 2004 and before that he was just another all-star when that wasn't even remotely true. In 2000 Garnett was matching Duncan in statistical output and impact and even finished ahead of him in MVP voting that year. And we know Garnett kept getting better after 2000. In 1999 they played against each other in the Playoffs and while the Spurs won and advanced, Duncan didn't really outplay Garnett head 2 head. Again it was close. I agree that Duncan was superior in 1998 tho, just came into the league a more matured and seasoned player into a better environment. Still, KG wasn't some scrub in 1998 or even in 1997. In 1997 he averaged 17/9/4 against Hakeem and Barkley frontcourt... He was a good 2 way player at this stage already.
if you watch Tim Duncan way back in the day you will see that they just passed Tim Duncan the ball in the post and just get out the way it was nothing but a Tim Duncan show honestly
Fax he had to carry this team for the early part of the Spurs dynasty like literally, he was the only one that was capable of scoring and David Robinson cause everybody else was catch and shoot and that’s about it not many play makers until Tony Parker and Manu came in like legit the Spurs would only win by playing insanely good defense, Tim Duncan, and David Robinson, scoring and catch and shoot threes that’s about it 😂
Why do yall think in extremes lmao it’s so weird. No KG isn’t overrated in any way if anything he’s underrated but he’s still not better than Timmy. Peak Kg was 24-14-5 with elite defense while essentially running that wolves offense lmao he was doing stuff that your beloved Jokic was doing in 2004👀
Nah, casuals are having a brain aneurysm when someone points out the fallacy of having Tim Duncan firmly in their Top 10 but Garnett isn't anywhere close despite having the same statistical profile, same career curve and length as an All-NBA player and same +/- footprint.. Their only counter argument to that is RANGZ ERNEH, which is basically a roundabout admiance of Duncan having a much better supporting cast from players to front office whilst Garnett was stuck on arguably the most incompetent organisation in the league for 10 years of his prime including most of his peak. There's no basketball arguement you can logically make that would justify having Duncan and Garnett ranked literal worlds apart. Duncan is not a better defender than KG. He might be in some areas pertaining to defense, but in others, KG has more value. Duncan is not a better passer. Duncan doesn't have a better handle. Duncan is easily a worse shooter. Duncan doesn't have superior longevity as a player, maybe marginally at beat, as he was an All-NBA player from 1998 to 2010 (13 years) then a fringe all-star to elite role player on lower minutes from 2010 to 2015 (5 years)... Garnett was an All-NBA guy from 1998 to 2009 (12 years) and then a fringe all-star to elite role player from 2010 to 2013 (4 years)... Final area is scoring where i believe Duncan was better but again the gap is small and some of that can be attributed to better coaching, supporting cast and environment. Even so, Duncan and Garnett basically averaged the same number of points (21.5 ppg) on similar efficiency during their best years for the regular season. The separation was made in the Playoffs when Duncan proved more reliable more often. But again, when Garnett joined the Celtics his efficiency as a scorer improved, so like i was saying, a lot of Garnett's shortcomings from 1998 to 2004 in the Playoffs can be attributed to him having to 1v5 teams with while forcing his shot instead of having the game come to him more naturally like it did in Boston with superior coaching and veteran players.
I am sadly one of the few lifetime wolves fan. Season ticket holder for 15 years. Tim Duncan is better than KG. That being said don’t disrespect Tom Gugliotta like he a scrub. He got mvp votes and could do everything. 20 8 and 4 for multiple years with elite wing defense.
I swear LOW make this video every year
he def said that in the vid 😮
Tim Duncan needs the love lmao
People make dumb Tim Duncan takes every year
Because people show they have no idea how good Tim Duncan was every year
That’s how bad the disrespect be
Bruh KG said himself Tim Duncan made him stop talking shit. Imagine KG not talking shit 😂.
Also 2014 spurs don’t win with a 2014 KG.
THIS!!!!!!!!!
@@EddieWoodsRemnantOutreach this the groundhog day fallacy. its like saying okc wouldve beaten the cavs in 16 if they didnt lose to golden state.
Of course 14 KG wouldn’t have led them to winning. Father Time catches up to Garnett faster. This a trash take and I seen someone else make it too. Just shows Duncan had better longevity
@@jerryspringer3343 dude if you actually watched the damn games you would see that Tim was effective because of his style of play. Tim was old as fuck too and it showed. If you didn’t know he and KG are the same age so Father Time had everyone. Tim however was able to find new ways to be effective at a championship level. KG in 2014 was actually still decent however he was not even close to a championship level player that you could rely on.
And your talking like the ability to remain effective at an advanced age doesn’t mean anything. It’s not everything sure, but there is a reason KG wasn’t as effective. It’s because he relied not only on athleticism more but he didn’t master the tools of basketball that don’t require athleticism as well as Tim did.
Basketball is a skill game as well as an athletic game. when the athletic part goes you see who has the skill. KG was plenty skilled Tim was just better. If you disagree come with a reason instead of random shit talking.
@@KingHampton-ul1iwI can tell you got an A- on your English test and think you’re smart
I dont think people understand how dominant Duncan was especially in his prime!
How are you dominant when you only win vs mediocre teams
@@bboywolfLakers were mediocre?
For real, people lucky Tim doesn’t have shaq’s mouth, otherwise nba discourse would be wild
@@bboywolf
99 Knicks had 2 guys who could drop 40 on you on any given night and a deep bench. Spurs beat them in 5.
03 Nets had the best point guard in the league and an elite defense, not to mention the Spurs that season were not talented whatsoever. Spurs beat them in 6.
05 Pistons were arguably better than the 04 team that won the chip. Spurs beat them in 7.
07 Cavaliers had a red-hot LeBron and a great defense. Spurs sweep them.
14 Heat had peak LeBron and were playing for a three-peat. Spurs beat them in 5.
And don't get me started on the numerous West powerhouses they had to beat to get there.
He was so good, had people saying “America runs on Duncan” instead of “America runs on Dunkin”
Tim Duncan played the game and nothing more. He wasn't flashy and he wasn't a "baller" so of course people aren't going to give him the respect he deserves. Some of the younger NBA players won't give Duncan his due because again he wasn't flashy, wasn't dressing to impress the media or a loudmouth or looking to sleep around. He was there to play ball.
Yup. And unlike many of the guys in his generation having careers in media and would defend themselves from stupid takes on their careers, he couldn't care less and doing his own thing and dgaf about any of it.
Idk man dude was pretty baller to me
@@TheGeorgeD13Timothy Duncan was a system player yall glaze him Duncan always had elite role players around himm
Straight up just put ball in hoop and win
@malikwilson7387 did your bum ah even watch the video?
Switch Duncan with Garnett in 2014 and they do NOT win that championship lol
Peak Garnett yes lmao 😂😂😂
@@mayowaojutalayo5298Timothy Duncan was a system player Kawhi carried him to that last title
@@malikwilson7387he did not get carried kawhi struggled the first couple games. He couldn’t even break 10 pts. Timmy held his own. Im pretty sure he averaged a double double in the finals
@@AkaHoodie that's a lie Kawhi shut Lebron Down and Tim Duncan was old and could barely keep up and Duncan always had the best role players Duncan is a system player
@@malikwilson7387 bro what did i lie about? Im not saying they wouldve won without kawhi but u can say the same for tim.
Yearly Tim Duncan vid
Once every couple months oldheads try to put some "real baller PFs" ahead of Duncan 😂
KG and AD are the usual suspects
Yet the closest we've had since (Giannis) isn't brought to the discussions cause "he doesn't have a bag" 😂😂😂
@@ocanaldojj Which is funny because Giannis is so skilled that every time the do a " skilled Big man moment" video , people are saying : " Giannis does that every time in every game" and the usual response is " yeah but Giannis is not really a big man (PF/C) , he is more like a SF". Showing even more how good Giannis is with his ball handling, passing, playmaking to the point they don't feel like he is a big man
Are we really at the point where we pretending Tim Duncan wasn't "skilled"...
“Skilled” means can dribble like AI to many people
@@masongreen1371 ... That's actually a really good point.
Oddly enough... Tim Duncan is the literal embodiment of "skill"... it's in his nickname
@@JoshuaHopkins-j9o for real! Duncan literally was so elite on defense, he didn't have to leave the floor to be extremely effective at protecting the rim because he understood positional defense and angles and didn't need to gamble or overplay.
Offensively he was Lamarcus Aldridge on steroids with unlimited stamina. Absolutely automatic within 20 ft with underrated foot speed and completely ambidextrous.
@@hiz24airness ... His personality too... all the things. Can't say enough about the guy.
I'll tell you... if you haven't watched the "Making the Case" videos... the one for Tim Duncan almost had me sold on the "goat" argument for him... almost ;-)
ua-cam.com/video/h-QQSn21nVo/v-deo.htmlsi=MPddmfvcSf3N4CHj
If you haven't seen it
@@hiz24airnesswhy are yall glazing Duncan a guy who was a system player carried by elite role players Greg popovich said Manu would be averaging 25 points a game on any other team
Steph can shoot , dribble and play make better than Jordan . Doesn’t mean he’s better 😂
Steph and Jordan are my two favorite players of All Time, but this is probably the shortest and fairest counter possible. 😆
@@albericponcedeleon2696Jason Williams more skilled than Duncan... Therefore J Will better than Duncan. That's just facts my guy.
Kyrie can dribble, finish, and post up better than Curry.... don't mean he better lol
@@jordancromwellcoook
@@jordancromwelllol exactly kyrie does everything better then most nba players ever…. I still don’t think kyrie is even top 50🤦🏾♂️top 75 for sure
Nick Young so beautifully demonstrates the old adage, "better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."
No one has a stronger hold over their position (PF)than Duncan. Everyone else is fighting for second place, they’re not close to the throne.
Yup, I’ve had this convo before, Tim played 10 of his 19 seasons at center, you take all 10 of those seasons and scrub that from his record (that includes 2 titles) he is still the head and shoulders best power forward ever off his first 9 seasons alone.
Duncan is really a center that could play pf
@@bryanfoster326nah Duncan was a system player
@@malikwilson7387cappp
I would say Jordan does as well over shooting guards cause it wasn’t close between he and Kobe tbh
They need therapy who ever thinks about this 😂😂😂😂Tim Duncan is crazy good and underrated
i feel like people have a bias towards guardskillsets. Like if u aint good at dribbling u aint better. Tim had better post moves and footwork, yes it was ugly asf but it was efficient and effective.
He is appropriately rated... the best PF of all -time. Anyone who knows anything about basketball understands that he is the best PF to ever play... there are guys who may have been better at or at individually...
Tim was the whole 📦 and is only "underrated" by morons.
To the other guys comment... Tim's game wasn't flashy... but calling it "ugly" is the same kinda nuts
I swear just like 8 months ago people were calling Tim underated. He is the only player in NBA history who sways in the "Underrated" or "Overrated" constantly year after year.
I've never seen a topic and wondered "what does SWAGGY PEE think about this"
I think you won the comment section for this video
Bet you couldn’t say the same about ja rule
I was literally gonna say nick young has no credibility to anyone
Spurs were title contenders in Duncan's rookie year. Had D-Rob deferred to Duncan more and accepted that he was 1B at best against the Jazz, it would've been a Spurs-Bulls final.
Timmy clears allllla dem
td averaged more pts, rebounds, blocks, shot better from the field, has 4 more championships, has 3 finals mvps compared to kgs 0, more 1st team all nba appearances, more all nba teams in general, more all defense teams than kg, and 1 more mvp. the only thing kg has that duncan doesn’t have is a dpoy even tho duncan has the most all defense appearances without a dpoy.
Wat u just did somebody who never watched basketball a day in thier life could do 😂 naming accolades and reading off stats and nothing abt how they actually played basketball, we gotta be better than this 😂
You’re comparing career averages when Garnett came into the league as a high schooler. If you compare their age 22 season up through their age 35 season you’re basically looking at the same player in terms of averages, except that Duncan averaged 0.8 blocks more (Garnett 1.4 to Duncan’s 2.2) and Garnett was 10% better from free throw, averaged 1 assist more per game and averaged more steals (1.3 to Duncan’s 0.7). PPG: Identical, eFG%: Identical, Rebounds: Identical. Their stat lines look as close as 2 players can get. Championships? Find me a player who was on Garnett’s team that was as good as David Robinson still was in their first championship year? Closest you get to that is Terrell Brandon until Sam Cassell came that one year. His next best players were Wally Szczerbiak and a 33-34 year old Latrell Sprewell. A couple of years he got left off the All-NBA team for Carlos Boozer and Shawn Marion, you mean to tell me these players were better than him? Guess what? Voting on those award was hugely based on record and none of those players were the best or EVEN SECOND-BEST players on their teams (Nash/Stoudemire and DWill/AK47) A huge part of your post can be easily attributed to roster, man stop you don’t even try to put any context. And I’m not saying Garnett is better than Duncan, but to act like comparing the two is somehow slanderous or out of the question is downright stupid. KG doesn’t get his fair due
@@Slitherman96Be quiet Casual. In Garnetts rookie year he was the 5th leading scorer and his first 3 years Tom Gugliotta was the leading scorer.
Hell David was only the leading scorer Tims rookie year and then the 2nd year Duncan took over because David wasnt elite anymore. If David was elite like you said, how come in 2000, the very same championship core got Gentleman's swept in the 1st round by an injured Suns team that had to call Kevin Johnson out of retirement when Duncan tore his meniscus?? David as the 1st option shot 37% against Cliff Robinson and a old Luc Longley
@@Jolteon1989 Wow, you mean to tell me that at a time when coming out of high school was still a novelty that a unpolished rookie KG who averaged 4 less shots and 8 less minutes than Gugliotta (a man 7 years his senior and in his 4th year in the league) scored less points? Wow that's shocking.
You're also telling me that a 27 year old all-star who averaged 2 more shots a game and played a position up from KG and played closer to the basket and averaged DOUBLE the amount of free throws also scored more PPG than 2nd-year 20 year old still unpolished learning player competing against grown men? Wow quite the feat!
Wow, in the third year a Gugliotta who played half the games KG did and averaged 2 (count em, 1, 2, a whole 2, that's a lot!) was somehow more valuable than a now-21 year old who played EVERY single game that season and was also getting DPOY shouts? You must be right! Everyone knows the only thing that matters in basketball is scoring! Defense barely shows up in the box score, it's basically meaningless.
@@Jolteon1989 Wow guess what? It would appear that both Garnett and Duncan became the leading scorers of their respective teams at the very same age. Apparently if you're not the leading scorer, you can't be a valuable player for your team. David Robinson was not a good player when they won because he only averaged 15 and a half points and that's less than Tim. Defense? Never heard of it, it's barely on the box score. Huh? Defensive rules? What would that have any bearing on a team with two great rim protectors?
I'm going to stop playing this dumb game with you and slow roll it for you so that you understand. Never have I called that late period David Robinson "elite". That's one. Two, David Robinson shot like shit for the majority of that series, no question. When the series was tied? He had the best game of anyone on the court, easily too. But they still lost, whatever it happens. Three, how about you actually compare KG and Duncan at similar ages and when they're actually playing at a high level? Because you know what? I did and their stat lines are damn near as identical as any 2 players get. So stfu talking about casual while you conveniently ignore any context that would give any balance to the conversation
Real students of the game know that Gil, Nick Young, and Sheryl Swoops have some of the worst takes ever. Their bias is insane.
KG himself wouldn’t say he’s better than Timmy this is ridiculous 😂
That’s false low himself even said it. KG is the better individual player. However if we talking resumes and nba success Tim Duncan is the better player and that’s just facts
If you were born before the year 2000 then you know that LOW is telling the truth when he says that NO ONE was making the "Garnett>Duncan" argument when those guys were actually playing
Doubt that, there was always a bias. People forget how the Spurs would never get their credit despite their dominance during the early 2000's.
People also forget this duncan disrespect seems to always happen because this conversation was happening when he was playing too.
@@shamwaw336 Duncan's was compared to shaq not Garnett. Duncan has ALWAYS been better than Garnett. Manu and Parker were average in the 2000s. 2010s is were Manu and Parker were at their peaks but still compared to other guards, they were NEVER elite.
I know this is off topic but can we also be real about this kobe top3 this was never a thing until he passed away RIP black mamba
@@dillonsparks115 I agree. He was typically viewed as top 10 after 2010 run. Top 5 or even top 3 is recency bias. He was known as a ball hog and spent most of his latter years in the league proving Shaq didn't carry him. Kinda like what KD tried to do surrounding his legacy with Steph
@@jahkrmusic yea kobe got alot better as a teammate and shared the rock alot better after 2010 and I started to enjoy his game alot more after he matured and grew up became alot more likable
These are two of my favorite players but the Tim Duncan disrespect is dumb.
I personally don’t think is disrespect to Tim but more of how KG is that he can at least be compared to that level
@@mamadoubarrie6607KG is easily my favorite player from the 2000s but the convo always goes the wrong way. I’ve defended KG for years saying that he’s closer to Duncan than Dirk is to him in terms of individual play and impact on the floor. But now that people are starting to realize how good KG really was, and have gone too far when talking about Duncan. Yes Duncan played for a better organization. Yes he had better teammates. Yes he had a MUCH better coaching staff and stability all around. But he was still a demon as an individual player. I think people for some reason think about old Timmy when discussing him and see him as just a guy that “played the right way”. But peak Duncan (99-04ish) was an unreal talent. He impacted the game differently than KG did, but impacted it just as much if not more nonetheless.
@@will-vp9ng oh 100 percent. Relative to KG tho he still had much more stability. I’ll put it this way, if they swapped places, I think Duncan gets more out of his teamates and organization than KG did in Minnesota, but it would still get worse than SA. Duncan spearheaded the culture in SA along with Pop but others still had to do their job at a high level for that culture to work. I think they do a worse job in Minnesota.
@@will-vp9ng I agree with that part too. Duncan seemed to be a different type of leader. With that said, I blame the Kawhi situation on him and his uncle. The Spurs probably could have handled it better, and Tony Parker definitely should have kept his mouth shut. But at the same time, Kawhi has shown on multiple accounts that he’s going to put himself and his career first (which I’m not saying is a bad thing). But I don’t think it goes differently on any other organization. He does not care about communicating with the team and never has.
@@will-vp9ng that’s why I don’t think it was a San Antonio thing though. Those doctors aren’t looking out for you to be at optimal health. They are going to clear you if they see you are just healthy enough to play. Especially during that time, the standard has gotten a little higher over time.
2002 Spurs and 2003 Spurs were such historic carry jobs by Duncan.
For real my grandma would always joke about the Spurs greatest play give it to Tim Duncan, and he’ll figure it out 😂 it really wasn’t until Tim Duncan got old that he couldn’t carry the team by himself that pop started innovating and getting a legit offensive philosophy
Every legend without a media presence is being disrespected.
Tim is the best PF of all time.
99,9% of all discussions about the nba are pure nonsense + waste of time.
This is true. Overkill on IG about the best, who is better than who, endless debates.
@@Sean_Wessthat's just the off-season in a nutshell or when people are just bored lol
As a Spurs fan, I am APPALLED by this. I thought that Timmy D was getting the respect he deserves since people have started putting him in or just outside their top 10. Unfortunately, I was wrong. How does the best player all time at a position get underrated and disrespected so much? 😭
I would say if you get a little deep into the nba fanbase, he is regarded as a Top 5 all-time 🔒 but sometimes the casuals will throw his name Top 10 but give bad reasons why he’s barely making the list for bias or hypocritical reasons towards him
I need people to understand, in the 03 playoffs the year they won the chip Tim lead the spurs in Points, rebounds, assists, and blocks. David robinson was the only person on the starting lineup shooting above 41% that entire playoffs and he was only playing 23 minutes a game at that point. Tim duncan has pretty much the same exact career numbers as KG and FAR BETTER playoff numbers. This idea that tim was a 15 point a game role player who just got lucky with his team is complete propaganda
Complete facts. Arguably the greatest carry ever. Duncan was insane from 98-07. Dudes just believe guys like Manu and Parker were All-Star caliber their whole careers
02-03 Duncan was arguably the best player in the fucking league besides PRIME shaq that SPEAKS volume
No he was NOT. That is revisionist history
@@juliosantana1646 Timmy was better than Shaq in 2003
@@dechefmane3526 That’s cap
@@juliosantana1646yes he was
@@juliosantana1646 2003 Duncan's playoff run is probably the most dominant in NBA history
As someone who grew up watching both in their prime Duncan was demonstrably better. Duncan put the entire team on his back on both ends of the floor and had to go up against all the great squads in the west.
Ive never seen a top 5 player get as much disrespect as Tim Duncan does 😭
This is similar to the dame and curry argument. Where they say dame would win the same amount of chips and accolades if he was on the warriors when in reality the reason the likes of Klay and dray could flourish how they did was because of who curry was as a player. It’s the same with Duncan. Tony and manu wouldn’t be as revered as they were if not for Duncan so to think you could just throw another player in there and get the same result is ridiculous.
I almost agree, KG and Duncan have comparable games but the only thing Dame has in common with Steph is ridiculous range and great handles. Thats it!
Dame can't compete with Curry's defense, off ball game, screen setting, gravity, rebounding, passing or strength.
The ‘03 Spurs are a prime example to judge a Superstar’s supporting cast based on actual production and level of play rather than the name on the back of the jersey. Which you should always do btw.
Who's to say KG would agree or like pop's system 🤷 on paper Boston's big 3 looked better than Spurs big 3 and Spurs still got more chip's over KG, Pierce, and Allen. So that argument saying KG could have also won if he was on the Spurs is irrelevant considering Boston had more talent.
“Pop system” the reason why pop didn’t get fired in his first five seasons is because he miraculously drafted TD. TD saved his job and been carrying that system ever since. TD is the reason why the spurs winning. They starting winning and ended winning with TD
Pops would not put up with KG and his on-court drama either. Dude always trying to start a fight because he knows the refs would get in to stop it.
0:58 - i can't never take people who never watched whole games in real time.
Tim Duncan literally asked to RUN POINT IN The finals against Miami and Pop let him do it a lil bit but that Borris Diaw, Patty Mills and Tony Parker job lol Why are we listening to Nick Young anyways this was never a high IQ player
The more I here KG vs Tim convos the more I'm realizing we're gonna deal with this for Currys vs harden/dame convos if they get a ring.
I almost agree, KG and Duncan have comparable games but the only thing Dame and Harden have in common with Steph is ridiculous range and great handles. Thats it!
They can't compete with Curry's defense, off ball game, screen setting, gravity, and Dame additional falls short on rebounding, passing and strength.
Curry is leagues ahead of Dame and Harden, whereas KG wasn't quite Duncan but the gap isnt as huge. Its like comparing Kobe to Reggie Millar or Dwade.
Nah. Curry have enough fans and play in a big enough market that that would not happen
I think the Spurs themselves as an organization get overrated when we talk about Duncan cause they were not some historic organization with an established great culture when they drafted Duncan in 1997. Pop was not a respected figure before Duncan came (watch Secret Base’s PRISM video on Pop) And they were constant playoff chokers before Duncan. Duncan, because he bought in to Pop’s philosophy when he could’ve easily just not, is the main reason the spurs are such a well respected organization. I don’t think Pop becomes the all time great, Mount Rushmore head coach he is now until the last 3-4 years of Duncan’s career when they become the unselfish team that they are known as. But from 1997-2008 that team was completely Duncan’s, and he was the catalyst for 4 championships, including 2003 which was the greatest season a power forward has ever had.
...Duncan and Wade are quickly being so wildly underrated
The people that says Garnett is better than Duncan are the same idiots that say Lebron is better than Jordan. No surprises.
Nothing nick young says can make me take him seriously
I swear, dude has to be high off his ass all the time
I’m 44 to this day Tim Duncan is the ONLY player I watched out play a prime Shaq the ONLY player
There's a legion of UA-camrs using Gilbert Arenas as a reference. Reminds me of the type of people 15 years ago who complained about Kardasians then went to the grocery store and grabbed the magazine at the checkout. The dude has no integrity and weirdly admitted on DJ Vlad that he says outlandish things to get people riled up.
Imo Tim Duncan is top 5 alltime, I think he's better than Bill Russell and Magic Johnson. But there's a very simple reason he's gonna fade fast as the years go by. Let's pretend he had a better career than Kareem and Jordan too. You know why Duncan will be forgotten quickly?
He's boring and he didn't sell shoes. It's that simple
As someone who use to cape for him all through highschool. On my basketball team all my friends and teammates were either Chris Webber or KG fans. Shaq himself called Duncan "The Big Fundamental." Most people don't even know what that means, it's like trying to explain pick-and-roll coverages. People wanna relate to flashiness or something easy they can understand. "Yeah he won alot but" _____________ fill in the blank.
TLDR: He's not exciting enough.
KG even talked about how great Tim Duncan was. This just shows that just because you played in the NBA doesn’t mean you know what you’re talking about.
I can see Nick Young’s response to this now….”I played in the league” 😂😂
Good shit Low
Duncan started playing basketball late, too. I think he was a Junior in HS. I loved watching Tim Duncan when he was at Wake Forest. His game wasn't flashy but consistent on both sides of the ball. He played at a high level that most couldn't acknowledge.
It's funny that we have the "big fundamental" thing with Duncan and people forget that yeah, he was an athletic freak of his own and he was super strong and he could actually go toe-to-toe against Shaq in the post and he was that strong and that tough. Yes he had great fundamental skills, all the greats do, but he was also just a beast on the block.
Thank you for calling in Duncan disrespect and not Garnett glazing because that’s how you respect both of their greatness without ignoring the blatant truth that Duncan is with out a doubt better
So what makes a better player more skill or impactful. Cause u can build a team around both
This notion that people think just because other players had a good talent around them they can’t also be a great player
People argue that without the Spurs, Duncan's legacy would be vastly different, would he have thrived on the Timberwolves?
Would a KG-Duncan team switch have allowed KG to surpass Duncan's legacy? If they had switched teams, Duncan never would have gotten hurt in the 2000 playoffs.
2000 one of the most ignored injuries of all time, Tim Duncan's devastating lateral meniscus getting torn. A top 5 what if.
As a rookie, Duncan's All-NBA First Team selection solidified his ability to win with anyone.
Duncan looked different from his rookie year until a leg injury in 1999-2000, which derailed most his prime years and athleticism. The fact that he had a major knee injury that he never really recovered from in the early 2000s is a credit to the guy. He just adapted his game and kept dominating. Duncan's post-injury success is insane, almost unheard of in the NBA.
Even after major injuries, Duncan 03 puts up the 5 greatest individual playoff runs ever (beating kobe and shaq with a rookie ginobolli, 20 year old Parker and 37 year old Robinson only avg 8 & played 20 min) 25/15/5/4 with God level defence out scoring your second option by 12 PPG.
Thank you. 2003 alone proved Duncan was an another level to KG, who never won a playoff series unless he had 2 near 20 PPG scorers with him.
And KG was still better than Gugliotta when he avg more points and rebounds 😂
KG glazers jsut say anything 😂 clearly someone on that team was putting the team on its back
@@Nahanoo or how abt avg more points don’t make u a better scorer 😂 and one is an all league lvl defender the other is not, dumbasses say anything
Avg 3 more points shooting 5 percent less and a half a rebound def make u better 😂 haters say anything
People just don’t know wtf early spurs basketball looked like
i think the argument needs to be taken differently, I mean duncan came in after 4 years of college while kg came in out of highschool, I think that is the biggest factor here.
The talent disparity between Duncan’s supporting cast and Garnett’s is not even comparable for the most part
@@Slitherman96Teammates have nothing to do with which player was better. TD was dominant.
@@RJ_Focused last time I checked a TEAM wins a championship. KG was dominant too
It helps a lot for a power forward to have a center like David Robinson early on that helped speed up the trajectory of a player like Duncan . They weren't called the next twin towers for nothing. Robinson was still a damn good player maybe not what he was but still highly effective later on in his career
The disrespect I’ve seen against Tim my whole life has driven me to be one of his biggest advocates. On most any list, Tim is considered the GREATEST PF of all time. A man that actually played center for most of his career. Look it up!!!!
You....are...da...MAN.... i think i yelled amen like 10 times!! this here is a smart man that was there with us watching these games!!! 110% credibility right here!
The fact that Nick Young is my age... And talking this foolishness... That's WILD.
Tim is arguably top 5 i don’t get the disrespect. You can argue he’s above Kobe.
No he's better then Kobe period yall overhyping my nigga Kobe after his death
You can argue several guys over Kobe, but we're not allowed to say that anymore.
@jonathonduhon9278 because your dumb otherwise there's no several stop the bs.
He is above Kobe. You can say it.
No you can’t.
Tim Duncan was different by far but we can’t act like what team you get drafted to don’t matter sometimes for some players
I get the purpose of having hypothetical scenarios for conversations but i hate when people use the hypotheticals as if they’re true.
This is my favorite series on this channel 😂😂 Timmy my goat and these just help me feel honored I watched him play
“You have no idea how good Tim Duncan was”
As crazy as it sound bro NBA players are always gonna side with the player who has the more aesthetically pleasing game
Tim Duncan was the only player I saw with the ability to match Lakers Shaq.
Duncan never won less than 49 games for his entire career. Read this line twice.
Duncan is one of the top 5 defensive players ever. (by basketball reference)
If not for Pop taking him out of the game, he would be 6-0 in the finals.
If Duncan wasn't the system, why cant Popovic win as much games per season since Duncan left the building?
LOW has made this video 700 times I swear
The reason why I believe people Kevin Garnett over Tim Duncan is because Kevin Garnett portrays gangsterism Kevin Garnett was a great basketball player but because he promoted gangsterism Tim Duncan did not
Great stuff man.
1999 Tim Duncan was playing on par with rival PF & 1999 MVP Karl Malone. Tim dominated that 1999 Finals and nobody can name anybody on that roster besides David Robinson who was on the decline.
Never mind what they did on the court (although this also really isn't a debate in my eyes)- the Spurs wouldn't be what they were without Duncan's leadership.
You can argue that Robinson started the system, but clearly Duncan perfected, lead, and maintained it from the moment his name was called in the draft.
Tim was a type of leader that can do the most with everything.... Something we've never seen until that taco bell commercial in 2014.. Neither Ginobili nor Parker would have been hall of famer with Garnett
That boy got the Krispy Kreme glaze going on.
They are wiiiild!
I would almost 100% grantee, if every teams GM were given the chance to draft Timmy, or Kg (from rookie to retired) knowing how good they both are going to be, EVERYONE OF THEM would take Timmy.
Thats not a slide at KG, its just the fact of how GOOD he was.
Just cause u played in the league, doesn’t make you smart… these 2000s players are NOT smart man I’m sorry
The only reason I see people people have this argument I feel is because KG is just more culture relevant
I grew up off that Milwaukee Sam Cassell/Ray Allen/Tim Thomas squad. Cassell was awesome
13:10 to put into better context:
2004- Game 5 was lost due to the Derek Fisher shot with 0.4 seconds left after Duncan made an impossible shot over Shaq; that shot CHANGED the outcome of that series.
2006: Spurs came back against the Mavs down 3-1 and would've won if not for the bonehead foul from Manu on Dirk that was and And-1 play that forced OT in game 7 which ended in a Spurs lost.
One could argue that no matter the star play, Duncan or Garnett, certain situations happen to be out of their control.
I don’t even listen to Arenas talk about basketball anymore… for him to be so good at the game his analysis is ridiculous & nick young is WORSE.. I can’t even get through a full discussion of them
As a 41 yr old man. Its Duncan, and I seen both. In their prime.. Duncan is the 5 best player I've seen. Any position
The wasnt a time Drob played basketball were he wasn’t a good defender around the rim. Even in 03
The versatility and athleticism of Duncan, especially In the first 3rd to half of his career gets vastly underrated. It’s kinda ridiculous. He was running the floor, putting the ball on the floor, defending all over the floor and dunking on cats. People act like Duncan was old man Parish or Bill Cartwright but Pop made him great lol
A lot of these clowns are too young to remember Duncan from '97-'07. Those were his best years when he was athletic and playing at a MVP level. I would say young people who are in the age range of 18-28 only got to see old man Duncan from '08-'16. They base their knowledge about Duncan from that time period.
the real defining question of who is better is, " What do you value more to determine which player is better, game impactfulness or overall skill?" This same question be taken to the MVP award when there are neck-and-neck candidates. IMO the GIls crew value more skill in determining better but they aren't completely oblivious and even Kenyon did nod to Duncan's impact in size match up for more impact but the value overall for them is skill and athleticism over fundamental and consistency.
This take is actually ridiculous. First off, LOW DIDNT MENTION Popovich, which is hard to believe, considering the calbier of coach he was. Secondly, San Antonio was a DEEP, DIFFICULT playoff team in the mid 90s before the got Duncan. Is Duncan better?? Probably. But its not that insane of a comparion. If Duncan goes to Minnesota its not like hes winning a ring there. At least NOT MORE than 1 MAX....
Popovich is garbage coach he's proven it since Kawhi left the Spurs. He's only as good as the players he has around him. Coaches in the NBA are grossly overrated. Using the Popovich card against Duncan is just a hater argument.
You don't see people diminishing Kobe, MJ, Shaq, Magic, Jabbar's greatness because they were coached by Phil Jackson and Riley.
Garnett was a Jump shooter, Tim Duncan Stayed in his role as a PF , Kevin Garnett lived off of Long 2's Duncan was a low post force for real , and the better all around defender
Ironically, Tim Duncan was one of the best mid range shooters also but to be fair, Tim Duncan is one of the greatest defenders the NBA’s ever seen
Garnett low key overrated. People are stuck on his potential and don't watch what he did. People talk as if he was a proto KD offensively when he was really a more athletic Carlos Boozer.
Gil WAS speaking facts about kg though. He DID defer. He DID play hot potato with the basketball late in games. He DID shirk away from those responsibilities. The wolves were missing a late game shot maker and it was particularly difficult to build around KG-especially for the playoffs-because he WASN'T that. Its not a surprise he had the most success on teams with casell and then later pierce and allen.
Honestly whatever opinion Gil has, I will ALWAYS have the oposite one because that guy is a f*ing joke to me and everything coming out of his mouth is just garbage. 😂
Ironically, modern NBA teams have been asking their Big men for a long time now to play more like KG and less like Duncan... That speaks volume.
There's nothing wrong in playing to your strengths. KG was a player ahead of his time and as such, the league at large didn't really understand how to utilize such a player to his best potential.
The NBA was still in the era of Hakeem and Shaq when KG came into the league. Where if you were close to 7 feet, you were obliged to take your butt to the low post and call for the ball...
When in reality, if you surrounded Garnett with space and a competent playmaker and let him just screen and fill in the gaps with his mobility, he'd be far more dominant on offense with a less crowded paint.
The fact that he went out there and still averaged 20-25 points while having no space and a mass disadvantage because of his lean frame that he has to resort to fallaway jumpers speaks to his talent.
As far as 'deferring' goes, that's definitely a myth. In 1999, his 2nd Playoff series as a 22 year old Garnett took significantly more shots in that series than Duncan...
KG didn't have problems with being aggressive as a scorer, he just understood early on that he can't win 1v5 trying to imitate Duncan or Hakeem in the low block. He had more range than both those guys and a better handle, that's why he was often floating around in the mid range area.
Nothing wrong with that IF you play in a time period where teams know how to take advantage of that... Unfortunately for Garnett, he did not. He played in a slow pace, low block era with poor understanding of space, bad shooting and perimeter talent, by and large.
Imagine Garnett on the Suns in 2005 instead of Amare. That's a team that would play to his strengths. Elite point guard, shooting, playing a fast paced game.
@@itsnotgoingtoendwell And you can make the same argument for Duncan because the best player in the league(Jokic) plays like a slower, less athletic and defensive version of Duncan.
And those Wolves teams were a run and Gun team. You should give that same what if for Duncan if he played in a faster system, because most of Duncan teams finishied in the bottom half of tge league in Pace until the 2010s.
Garnett did defer alot because of the his body frame like you said. He didnt like physical contact while Duncan was taking the most punishment outside of Shaq during that era since he was the carrying those early 2000 Spurs teams
David Robinson in 99 is still a top 7 player in basketball 😂 U can think he better low that’s cool but let’s not be disingenuous and acting like Gugliotta was better than KG, frm yr 2 til he left KG was the best player on Minnesota
He wasnt... look at the MVP race that year and keep in mind the players at the time. At most he was a top 15 player in the league at that stage.
@@Kidz24 mvp race 😂 name the players I thought were better if u say Alonzo mourning or AI let me know now
I’ll give u Malone shaq Duncan KG Kidd and Webber everyone else I’m taking Drob
15 is crazy at worst he is like 10 😂
They’re gonna act like having another high level rim protector who could defend the paint (the most valuable real estate on the court) with Tim in the deadball era (where the ability to get points was its lowest in the modern NBA) doesn’t mean shit. Especially with a player as good as DRob still was, they called them the Twin Towers for a reason and they had the best defense in the league to show for it.
Bunch of players that havent won anything judging players that have won multiple championships
Its gilbert podcast we been ignorin that
There are plenty of players in the league's history who I absolutely adore... but am also perfectly okay with someone shit talking their liabilities.
Tim Duncan had 0 liabilities... best PF to ever do it
I hate hypotheticals
Whenever there is a debate or someone is making a point and they resort to a hypothetical you should stop listening immediately cause once the hypothetical is brought up everything that follows will be a whole lot of stupid.
KG over Duncan isn’t as egregious as Kobe over MJ.
Still a bad take tho
This is only a topic of discussion because how they played. Tim Duncan not flashy but will put a 20 plus 10 plus stat on you immediately and quietly, KG gonna do the same and kill your confidence while he’s at it. Pick which one you’re more a fan of 🤷🏾♂️
Yo, somebody take Nick Young's mike. He clearly don't know what he's talking about and the fact that barely anybody pushes back on his bullshit. Also, this is absolutely the result of bag discourse. Honestly, I'm with Bsolz on this one. Bag really doesn't matter at all when it comes to who's better. It only matters if their stats and career success are relatively equal. If one leads the other in pretty much every category, and their respective careers aren't even close, then bag don't mean shit. Nobody has Kyrie in their top 20 all time.
Oh, and Tim was one of the best defenders ever. Tim was still an elite rim protector at like, 37. In those Miami series
Low really living of breaking down the bad takes of gils arena
That’s the answer. Garnett is more skilled. Duncan is better.
Great video
That does not wanna talk about the fact he didn’t even play with the big three for his first championship Tim Duncan did an absolute carry job for like the first couple years 😂
Great analysis. Subscribing
There talent is pretty relative I don't think it's disrespectful to say KG was the better talent, he was a better playmaker and shooter along with being extremely switchable.
1998-03 Tim was better than KG, but 04-08 I think KG was than Tim, and honestly after that they were fairly equal.
I overall pick Tim because he's a better playoff performer but you can 100% blame on the trash team KG had.
It's honestly not that bad of a take as long you admit they're close as talents and tim started better and ended his carrer better
06-07 Duncan was a better player, during that stretch, KG was struggling to keep his consistency individually while Duncan kept his relative… 2008 KG had a resurgence, even if his stats went down from Minnesota, the impact lifted thru his elite defense impact again and led Boston to a championship
This has always been the discussion since I’ve been watching ball. Tim had the better career but KG individually had a case for himself too. It just seemed to depend on who you preferred.
If anything, KG is underrated from 1998 to 2004, because people talk like he only became relevant as an MVP in 2004 and before that he was just another all-star when that wasn't even remotely true.
In 2000 Garnett was matching Duncan in statistical output and impact and even finished ahead of him in MVP voting that year. And we know Garnett kept getting better after 2000.
In 1999 they played against each other in the Playoffs and while the Spurs won and advanced, Duncan didn't really outplay Garnett head 2 head. Again it was close. I agree that Duncan was superior in 1998 tho, just came into the league a more matured and seasoned player into a better environment.
Still, KG wasn't some scrub in 1998 or even in 1997. In 1997 he averaged 17/9/4 against Hakeem and Barkley frontcourt... He was a good 2 way player at this stage already.
if you watch Tim Duncan way back in the day you will see that they just passed Tim Duncan the ball in the post and just get out the way it was nothing but a Tim Duncan show honestly
Fax he had to carry this team for the early part of the Spurs dynasty like literally, he was the only one that was capable of scoring and David Robinson cause everybody else was catch and shoot and that’s about it not many play makers until Tony Parker and Manu came in like legit the Spurs would only win by playing insanely good defense, Tim Duncan, and David Robinson, scoring and catch and shoot threes that’s about it 😂
They not even taking into account would kg and coach pop work out
Tim Duncan never had a losing season and has more wins than the majority of teams since 2000
garnett quickly becoming one of the most overrated players of all time. some people tryna put him in top 15 all time convos.
I don’t mind top 15 but Nick Young tryna put him in like top 8 lol
Why do yall think in extremes lmao it’s so weird. No KG isn’t overrated in any way if anything he’s underrated but he’s still not better than Timmy. Peak Kg was 24-14-5 with elite defense while essentially running that wolves offense lmao he was doing stuff that your beloved Jokic was doing in 2004👀
Nah, casuals are having a brain aneurysm when someone points out the fallacy of having Tim Duncan firmly in their Top 10 but Garnett isn't anywhere close despite having the same statistical profile, same career curve and length as an All-NBA player and same +/- footprint..
Their only counter argument to that is RANGZ ERNEH, which is basically a roundabout admiance of Duncan having a much better supporting cast from players to front office whilst Garnett was stuck on arguably the most incompetent organisation in the league for 10 years of his prime including most of his peak.
There's no basketball arguement you can logically make that would justify having Duncan and Garnett ranked literal worlds apart.
Duncan is not a better defender than KG. He might be in some areas pertaining to defense, but in others, KG has more value. Duncan is not a better passer. Duncan doesn't have a better handle. Duncan is easily a worse shooter. Duncan doesn't have superior longevity as a player, maybe marginally at beat, as he was an All-NBA player from 1998 to 2010 (13 years) then a fringe all-star to elite role player on lower minutes from 2010 to 2015 (5 years)... Garnett was an All-NBA guy from 1998 to 2009 (12 years) and then a fringe all-star to elite role player from 2010 to 2013 (4 years)...
Final area is scoring where i believe Duncan was better but again the gap is small and some of that can be attributed to better coaching, supporting cast and environment. Even so, Duncan and Garnett basically averaged the same number of points (21.5 ppg) on similar efficiency during their best years for the regular season. The separation was made in the Playoffs when Duncan proved more reliable more often. But again, when Garnett joined the Celtics his efficiency as a scorer improved, so like i was saying, a lot of Garnett's shortcomings from 1998 to 2004 in the Playoffs can be attributed to him having to 1v5 teams with while forcing his shot instead of having the game come to him more naturally like it did in Boston with superior coaching and veteran players.
@@adriposthat MVP season is crazy
I am sadly one of the few lifetime wolves fan. Season ticket holder for 15 years. Tim Duncan is better than KG. That being said don’t disrespect Tom Gugliotta like he a scrub. He got mvp votes and could do everything. 20 8 and 4 for multiple years with elite wing defense.