We all had that face when you were chucking the figures around ! My figures: out of box on to table. Turn one, back in box. Ah well.....at least the paint job will last longer.
my theory is: primer is only there for the painting stage, used to get better grip and even first layer varnish is a sealant, a protective "shell" that gets a hard finish
yeah I thought so too. until now i've primed every model but they still had tear on edges even during the painting process which led to repainting everything that sticks out
Commercial paint companies make declarations and definitions of the uses and significance of primers/paints/clearcoats. They all recommend primer on plastic and metal certainly for adhesion but also very smooth apply forces over larger areas (think contrast paints) which makes it harder to form a proper film at a low enough thickness to preserve detail. There are very high adhesion products that will stick to smooth surfaces just fine. you can for example apply varnish directly as to resin, metal, almost anything. You can even use matte varnish as a primer, It's the fact that matte has micro solids (i forget the real term) that improves the application of the next layer. Primer is about minimizing the issues with the substrate such as colour bleed, adhesion, still soluble pigments, oil, and others. Brent as a habit washes his miniatures before priming them, which I think mitigates the main issue that say Citadel was concerned for when they originally mandated oil based undercoats. That's just an experienced hunch. The other main reason being that 'sprue gray' is not usually the appropriate colour under subsequent colours.
@@Vova-xv3zn Are you giving them a full 24 hours to cure after priming them? Rattlecan primer will appear dry after an hour or so, and airbrush primer will look dry very quickly, but both need to cure fully before painting over them.
This video was quite interesting to me. I never varnish my minis but now I am DEFINITELY gonna start doing it. I don't want to have to repaint minis that already took me entirely too long to paint!
Thanks you very much Brent for putting in the time to do these tests. I just got into mini painting, and have en trying to fined the best way to protect my art.
I very seldom take the time to like or comment on videos but the effort you put into your videos and the quality of the information and suggestions we can take away from them is just fantastic. Thanks for what you offer to the community.
I like a lot of miniature painting hobby channels but this video shows why Goobertown holds my heart. Gotta say though: Missed opportunity to play cheesy conga line music as background in the beginning! :D
Curious about the layer of gloss + layer of matte vs 2 layers of matte. People have always said "Gloss for protection, matte for finish", but I'm curious if gloss actually does offer more protection.. Great video!
Really great demonstration of a basic concept, and a good case for using varnish. I always found it was a hard sell for me when I first started painting, so great for a newbie to see the benefit. Side note: I appreciate that you could have stretched for that 10 minute mark, and yet didn't. Shows what you're all about.
I love these kind of stress tests, it's on one hand hilarious, but on the other very informative and educating! Respect to you Brent, your patience is very appreciated! :)
These experiments are some of your best videos! Also loved the one where you tested the various liquids for striping models. Entertaining, enlightening, and back by the scientific method 👍🏻 You should make these a series on your channel! You’re not only the Bob Ross of minis in Goobertown, you’re also it’s hobby Mythbuster!
Man, now I REALLY badly want to see the gloss vs. matte vs. gloss+matte varnish experiment. It's long been held that gloss is the only one that protects well, or that it protects much better than matte, and I think it's time we put that assertion to the test! Love the video Brent, your scientifically rigorous application of force and funions is a boom to us all.
"Nasty gamer hands" isn't something I ever expected to hear on this show, but I'm 100% here for it. As silly as this looks, it's a very realistic and useful test. I'm varnishing ALL my minis from now on!
Excellent! I approve of take 2, and it stands in wonderful contrast to the plastics. Metal miniatures, I love em personally, and there are things in metal you just can't get anymore. But this does show that while no metal mini is invulnerable to abuse, that varnishing them can go a long way to protecting them with more careful handling.
@Harvey Crewe the fact that they used sniper teams as the basis of this obvious hyperbole implies that they're the most patient people that Odieman could think of. I'm not sure the British army needs a new propaganda wing since we all seem to be on the same page vis a vis the patience of snipers.
Even in the evergrowing YT section of miniature painting, vids like these still are unique! It may seem trivial, but it's always good to check assumed "facts" with SCIENE! :D I remember the time when I started a Chaos Demon army, back when most of them still were metal miniatures. I rattlecan varnished them, but only matte, this was what was sufficient until then. Most my previously painted models were plastic and those few metal minis were treated with more care and I had no issue. But when most of your army is metal... it took about 1-3 tournaments and I was pissed about all the spots with chipped paint. So I started to varnish glossy first, with an additional matte layer afterwards. No significant issue anymore. By now, I'm using airbrush varnishes instead of rattlecans, but couldn't find much difference. Would be interesting to see a stress test though!
beautiful model system and thought-out treatment groups (including controls). introduction, material and methods, results, discussion. yep, our man is a scientist. Love seing when our craft pearmeates personal lifes aswell :)
In house painting we have a concept of encapsulation. Essentially having the resin wet on all sides and drying at once 'shrink' it on the figure. Theoretically the best application for encapsulation is dipping, you can clear excess with compressed air or an empty air gun, it will be messy. I'd be most interested in a test entirely with airbrush varnish and the variable being extenders/dryers. It would also be interesting if the first and second coats were strikingly different colours. Perhaps black under blue under pigmented varnish. Also, you could do a longer range passive test for the effects of handling by preparing a set of painting handles or something else and then using them for a year. just a thought.
This is the first GTH video I've seen in a while where Vallejo Model Color Purple wasn't mentioned. Related aside: Brent, as a result of your recommendations in multiple videos, today I've bought a pot of Vallejo Purple. Looking forward to trying it on a mini!
I think it was a good experiment and you showed how the clear coats do have an advantage in keeping the figures paint intact. Thanks for doing and sharing this interesting experiment.
I’m enjoying following along; thanks! I had read someone who presented the idea that Matte + gloss varnish provided more protection than 2 coats of just one type.
Thank you for doing this! I know (anecdotally) from experience that playing with partially painted minis for a while will lead to the paint wearing away. Some additional criteria that could be checked if you decide to do part two: Move some of the minis around before you prime/paint them (pre-grease). Use different colors/brands of paints, some paints just flat adhere better and those "thicker" paints would likely also be more resistant to being rubbed off.
That was cool and interesting! For the version with different varnishes you might want to apply a bit more physical stress upon the minis to prevent seiling effects in order to be able to better differentiate between the varnishes and varnish combinations, when testing their durability. It would also be cool to get your hypothesis about the results at the beginning and why you think it might turn out that way :) Thanks for the video :D
I think that airbrush paints could have a different chemical composition and could be more sticky naturally when compared to paints that you brush on. Also it could be the case that very thin layers (that you get by airbrushing) dry in sequence, that gives you basically a multi-layer structure. When you use brush, you tend to have a single thicker layer. Just a couple of theories.
Hey Brent! Thanks for running another one of these. I really enjoy the scientific approach to gaming applications. When you do the mini test, one thing to consider is normal mini resin v 3d printed resin. I know both have different properties in regards to falling and breaking. Thanks again!
Well, now your preview pic in the Goobertown Discord makes a whole lot more sense. :D Super cool video, I admire your persistence and patience with these experiments!
My "go-to" varnishing technique is a good coating of glossy varnish to really protect the paintjob, and then matte varnish over that to dull it down and make it look less like a creepy porcelain figurine
A thought on airbrushed vs hand brushed paint: when aerosolized, a lot of the moisture in the acrylic medium is being immediately eliminated by the time the paint hits the surface of the mini. This should result in significantly faster curing time for the paint. It might take several more days for brushed paint to become as hard as the sprayed on or air-brushed primer and paint. As for varnish really working, well, it makes sense to me. In addition to gloss or satin varnish having a smooth surface, varnish really sticks to itself well and forms a tightly gripping cocoon around the object it is applied to. You can see this if you try to pick and peel off some freshly applied varnish that is starting to turn gummy but isn't ready to be handled yet: rather than just peeling off at the part you're touching, like paint, the varnish comes off in a "skin" from the entire surface. Due to that, I always assumed that hardened varnish is more like cellophane shrink wrap. And consider how durable shrink wrap is to being rubbed against a surface.
This is the true work of a scientist. The world needs to know this information. Can we get a similar test for card sleeves? Testing no sleeves, single sleeves, and double sleeves. Continue the Lord’s work.
As a mini painter with OCD, anxiety and a bit of an obsession with cleanliness, this version of Brent is my worst nightmare. Tonight I will see him in my dreams, coming for my painstakingly painted minis with his greasy fingers... 'Let's play a game...'
Canoness: Sisters! We march in a conga line for the emperor~! Retributor: Canoness why is my paint chipping off after fifty laps? Battle Sister: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA [gets rubbed on a foam board 100 times]
Something I would definitely be interested in if you're in testing mode - Acrylic vs lacquer vs enamel varnishes. My own subjective impression is that lacquer is just the best with a narrow exception - Lacquer does yellow over time and greasy fingers make it worse. Due to this I have been in the process of repainting a bunch of OG lead base pewter battletech stuff recently. That being said, I could be full of crap and maybe acrylics or enamels are just better.
3 hours of repetitive greasy hand action? A typical evening during lockdown
I don't get it...
Greasy hand action eh?
PENNY NO
Sounds like you've been hanging out with Miss Penny too much Mr. Guy. Her dirty mindedness is starting to rub off on you... good for her!
@@GoobertownHobbies Hence the greasy hand action.
"Why are you spending 3 hours eating Funyuns and playing with toys?"
"SCIENCE!"
Those conga line sisters moving around the board are hypnotic.
I never was drawn in by time lapses much before....after Goobertown I want more hobby time lapses.
I could watch it for hours
Only real science requires funions and tank tops.
That fish tank I hear in the background sounds a little undersized.
"Brent? What are you doing in there?"
Brent, moving minis around a monopoly board on a timer: "Science."
“What’re you doing today, Brent?”
**”S C I E N C E”**
We all had that face when you were chucking the figures around ! My figures: out of box on to table. Turn one, back in box. Ah well.....at least the paint job will last longer.
Would be interesting to see a wear and tear comparison of resin, metal, soft and hard plastic, and green stuff!
I really hope you all appreciate what this man puts himself thru for all of us. I saw pain in those eyes...
my theory is:
primer is only there for the painting stage, used to get better grip and even first layer
varnish is a sealant, a protective "shell" that gets a hard finish
yeah I thought so too. until now i've primed every model but they still had tear on edges even during the painting process which led to repainting everything that sticks out
Commercial paint companies make declarations and definitions of the uses and significance of primers/paints/clearcoats. They all recommend primer on plastic and metal certainly for adhesion but also very smooth apply forces over larger areas (think contrast paints) which makes it harder to form a proper film at a low enough thickness to preserve detail. There are very high adhesion products that will stick to smooth surfaces just fine. you can for example apply varnish directly as to resin, metal, almost anything.
You can even use matte varnish as a primer, It's the fact that matte has micro solids (i forget the real term) that improves the application of the next layer.
Primer is about minimizing the issues with the substrate such as colour bleed, adhesion, still soluble pigments, oil, and others. Brent as a habit washes his miniatures before priming them, which I think mitigates the main issue that say Citadel was concerned for when they originally mandated oil based undercoats. That's just an experienced hunch. The other main reason being that 'sprue gray' is not usually the appropriate colour under subsequent colours.
@@Vova-xv3zn Are you giving them a full 24 hours to cure after priming them? Rattlecan primer will appear dry after an hour or so, and airbrush primer will look dry very quickly, but both need to cure fully before painting over them.
@@brandongiles6875 yes. some of my minis were left for a week after priming
When you start conga-ing smoothly with one hand at 2:56 it was very satisfying
This was your most epic video yet Brent! Your endurance is absolutely awe inspiring. I have much to learn.
Ok maybe not your most epic. We all know which video that belongs to😉
That cringe when you were shaking the Sisters... such a sacrifice in the name of science!
I'm something of a scientist myself, so the opening of this episode had me in stitches.
Yeah as a biologist I was happy
Me too... we need to increase the number of publications to boost the nascent field of mini chemistry :)
To appease the physics gods I'm going to start by assuming that all minis are spherical and in a vacuum.
@@warbossworm oh definitely
at this point i'm CONVINCED that these experiments are just an excuse for brent to satisfy his timelaps fetish
... maybe. :-)
Just want to say thanks for taking the time to do this. Looks like it was incredibly tedious but it's good you got some clear results.
I always wondered what type of damage moving minis around did but never decided how to so this helped well!
These last 2 videos have exactly what I expect from Brent & all the residents of Goobertown
Some people may argue that Brent is slowly going completely insane, I'd argue I am perfectly fine with what comes out of it.
;-)
Are you doing okay? ...mentally? You're doing fine right? this really was just an experiment?
;-)
Admirable dedication to science, and some results which are both interesting and useful. Good work. :)
When he puts his hair down, you know he's serious.
Yup!
Do or die, the hair never lies.
Your patience for experiments for things like this is amazing. 3 hours of moving sisters round
This dude always makes me smile I can't explain it.
Your timelapse game is on point in this episode!
Dude, those minis going around the board should be a loading screen spinner.
Making the content we simply can't find anywhere else.
As the first publication in this new field, you are going to cited by EVERYONE. Clever Brent. Very Clever. :)
This video was quite interesting to me. I never varnish my minis but now I am DEFINITELY gonna start doing it. I don't want to have to repaint minis that already took me entirely too long to paint!
This is a wonderful dedication to a hobby. Nobody should have to do this for this long, by by George ya did it. We don't deserve ya.
Thanks you very much Brent for putting in the time to do these tests. I just got into mini painting, and have en trying to fined the best way to protect my art.
I love that you have the heart and mind of a scientist when you do these experiments. Well done!
I very seldom take the time to like or comment on videos but the effort you put into your videos and the quality of the information and suggestions we can take away from them is just fantastic. Thanks for what you offer to the community.
that conga line time lapse is the most epic thing i have seen on youtube all year!
Your facial expressions while shaking the minis around... I felt that. Love the video.
I like a lot of miniature painting hobby channels but this video shows why Goobertown holds my heart.
Gotta say though: Missed opportunity to play cheesy conga line music as background in the beginning! :D
Curious about the layer of gloss + layer of matte vs 2 layers of matte. People have always said "Gloss for protection, matte for finish", but I'm curious if gloss actually does offer more protection..
Great video!
Brent, you are a true hero to the hobby! This is true dedication.
Really great demonstration of a basic concept, and a good case for using varnish. I always found it was a hard sell for me when I first started painting, so great for a newbie to see the benefit.
Side note: I appreciate that you could have stretched for that 10 minute mark, and yet didn't. Shows what you're all about.
a man of determination and pure f-ing will
I need a suit.
UA-cam must be slow today- I got the notification for this highly scientific video while already watching it!
Another great experiment Brent!
All Google services was down earlier today in Norway 🤣
I love these kind of stress tests, it's on one hand hilarious, but on the other very informative and educating!
Respect to you Brent, your patience is very appreciated! :)
The cats are like: "now he is totally nuts"
What so you mean by "now"?
These experiments are some of your best videos! Also loved the one where you tested the various liquids for striping models. Entertaining, enlightening, and back by the scientific method 👍🏻
You should make these a series on your channel! You’re not only the Bob Ross of minis in Goobertown, you’re also it’s hobby Mythbuster!
Much respect for the amount of time and patience you put into this!
Man, now I REALLY badly want to see the gloss vs. matte vs. gloss+matte varnish experiment. It's long been held that gloss is the only one that protects well, or that it protects much better than matte, and I think it's time we put that assertion to the test! Love the video Brent, your scientifically rigorous application of force and funions is a boom to us all.
I feel like the funyuns were the real control in this experiment.
Dude, you are a real hero for wargamers! I just would die from the sound of rubbing them over the foam.
Great to see that you have improved Monopoly from the standard ruleset!
And this version only takes 3 hours to finish a game.
"Nasty gamer hands" isn't something I ever expected to hear on this show, but I'm 100% here for it. As silly as this looks, it's a very realistic and useful test. I'm varnishing ALL my minis from now on!
Excellent! I approve of take 2, and it stands in wonderful contrast to the plastics. Metal miniatures, I love em personally, and there are things in metal you just can't get anymore. But this does show that while no metal mini is invulnerable to abuse, that varnishing them can go a long way to protecting them with more careful handling.
Amazing, love these experiment videos :) I especially enjoyed the cat cam time lapse!
Perfect blend of Nerd, Dork, and Geek sciences... love it
Wow! That’s commitment to the hobby. Thanks for the experiments and for the information gathered. Good to know.
I've really appreciated this video. Is the kind of experiment that really leads to useful day-by-day decisions for any hobbyist. Thanks Brent!
Patience at this level is rarely even observed in top military sniper teams.
@Harvey Crewe the fact that they used sniper teams as the basis of this obvious hyperbole implies that they're the most patient people that Odieman could think of. I'm not sure the British army needs a new propaganda wing since we all seem to be on the same page vis a vis the patience of snipers.
Goober town hobbies: the most relaxing hobby channel on UA-cam.
this is raw science and I am here for it
Support your local college under-grads - pay *them* to move Sisters of Battle around a Monopoly board for 3 hours in the name of science :D
hahaha, that would be fun too!
Even in the evergrowing YT section of miniature painting, vids like these still are unique! It may seem trivial, but it's always good to check assumed "facts" with SCIENE! :D
I remember the time when I started a Chaos Demon army, back when most of them still were metal miniatures. I rattlecan varnished them, but only matte, this was what was sufficient until then. Most my previously painted models were plastic and those few metal minis were treated with more care and I had no issue. But when most of your army is metal... it took about 1-3 tournaments and I was pissed about all the spots with chipped paint. So I started to varnish glossy first, with an additional matte layer afterwards. No significant issue anymore. By now, I'm using airbrush varnishes instead of rattlecans, but couldn't find much difference. Would be interesting to see a stress test though!
beautiful model system and thought-out treatment groups (including controls). introduction, material and methods, results, discussion. yep, our man is a scientist. Love seing when our craft pearmeates personal lifes aswell :)
In house painting we have a concept of encapsulation. Essentially having the resin wet on all sides and drying at once 'shrink' it on the figure. Theoretically the best application for encapsulation is dipping, you can clear excess with compressed air or an empty air gun, it will be messy.
I'd be most interested in a test entirely with airbrush varnish and the variable being extenders/dryers. It would also be interesting if the first and second coats were strikingly different colours. Perhaps black under blue under pigmented varnish.
Also, you could do a longer range passive test for the effects of handling by preparing a set of painting handles or something else and then using them for a year. just a thought.
This is a very informative video. I love it. Thank you so much for taking the time to do this. Also, nice tank top.
Thank you so much for your dedication and patience - amazing.
This is the first GTH video I've seen in a while where Vallejo Model Color Purple wasn't mentioned.
Related aside: Brent, as a result of your recommendations in multiple videos, today I've bought a pot of Vallejo Purple. Looking forward to trying it on a mini!
I think it was a good experiment and you showed how the clear coats do have an advantage in keeping the figures paint intact. Thanks for doing and sharing this interesting experiment.
Your channel is an absolute boon to the hobby, thank you so much Brent for the wonderful content you create.
I’m enjoying following along; thanks!
I had read someone who presented the idea that Matte + gloss varnish provided more protection than 2 coats of just one type.
You make me proud of both hobbyists and scientists. Thank you!
Awesome. This is exactly the video I wanted to see after the last varnish test!
Much more thorough analysis achieved through this test, GJ Brent!
Thank you for doing this! I know (anecdotally) from experience that playing with partially painted minis for a while will lead to the paint wearing away. Some additional criteria that could be checked if you decide to do part two: Move some of the minis around before you prime/paint them (pre-grease). Use different colors/brands of paints, some paints just flat adhere better and those "thicker" paints would likely also be more resistant to being rubbed off.
Oh wow Brent that's a really labor intensive methodology. Thanks for going through it for all of us
That was cool and interesting! For the version with different varnishes you might want to apply a bit more physical stress upon the minis to prevent seiling effects in order to be able to better differentiate between the varnishes and varnish combinations, when testing their durability.
It would also be cool to get your hypothesis about the results at the beginning and why you think it might turn out that way :)
Thanks for the video :D
Yeah I'm still trying to process all this, but some more varnish tests are definitely in the works! :-)
@@GoobertownHobbies That sounds great :D
I also meant "bottom or seiling effects", but just forget the one half XD
I think that airbrush paints could have a different chemical composition and could be more sticky naturally when compared to paints that you brush on.
Also it could be the case that very thin layers (that you get by airbrushing) dry in sequence, that gives you basically a multi-layer structure. When you use brush, you tend to have a single thicker layer.
Just a couple of theories.
Yup yup, we'll get to the bottom of all this!
This is one of the most important wargaming videos out there. Thank you, Hobby Jesus. Also, what did you listen to during the greasy nerd-hands test?
I think I finally listened to enough of horus heresy book 20 to call it done and delete it from my phone ;-)
Hey Brent!
Thanks for running another one of these. I really enjoy the scientific approach to gaming applications.
When you do the mini test, one thing to consider is normal mini resin v 3d printed resin. I know both have different properties in regards to falling and breaking.
Thanks again!
Printer resin is gonna come first- I don't have anywhere near enough cast-resin minis! :-)
Well, now your preview pic in the Goobertown Discord makes a whole lot more sense. :D Super cool video, I admire your persistence and patience with these experiments!
hehehehehe
Ah yes, the only acceptable time you should ever have a Monopoly board on your gaming table: for grease durability testing on primer and varnish.
My "go-to" varnishing technique is a good coating of glossy varnish to really protect the paintjob, and then matte varnish over that to dull it down and make it look less like a creepy porcelain figurine
Fantastic, really excited to see the matte varnish tests
he walks so that we can run, love ya Goobertown Hobbies as always great video
A thought on airbrushed vs hand brushed paint: when aerosolized, a lot of the moisture in the acrylic medium is being immediately eliminated by the time the paint hits the surface of the mini. This should result in significantly faster curing time for the paint. It might take several more days for brushed paint to become as hard as the sprayed on or air-brushed primer and paint.
As for varnish really working, well, it makes sense to me. In addition to gloss or satin varnish having a smooth surface, varnish really sticks to itself well and forms a tightly gripping cocoon around the object it is applied to. You can see this if you try to pick and peel off some freshly applied varnish that is starting to turn gummy but isn't ready to be handled yet: rather than just peeling off at the part you're touching, like paint, the varnish comes off in a "skin" from the entire surface.
Due to that, I always assumed that hardened varnish is more like cellophane shrink wrap. And consider how durable shrink wrap is to being rubbed against a surface.
I've been needing this video for many years.
Love how you manage to make it into a doubble blind test by having forgotten which mini was which by the time you evaluated the damage.
This is the true work of a scientist. The world needs to know this information. Can we get a similar test for card sleeves? Testing no sleeves, single sleeves, and double sleeves. Continue the Lord’s work.
that would be fun, I'm sure there's a variant of that which is actually needed....
ah yes laboratory grade funions
Love these experimental videos! Thank you so much for taking the time to expand our collective knowledge
3 hours of pushing minis around a monopoly board .. dear lord .. a man of focus, commitment and sheer will
With. A. Pencil!
He is a man of focus, commitment, and sheer f$%&&/g will ! Kudos !
You inspired me to start painting again. Thank you so much!
Loving these experiment videos! Keep them coming, I am learning quite a lot!
A 3-hour game of Monotony. You’re a hero man.
Where to start with this comic and informative video? The wife beater, definitely the wife beater! 👌😂🤘
As a mini painter with OCD, anxiety and a bit of an obsession with cleanliness, this version of Brent is my worst nightmare. Tonight I will see him in my dreams, coming for my painstakingly painted minis with his greasy fingers... 'Let's play a game...'
Canoness: Sisters! We march in a conga line for the emperor~!
Retributor: Canoness why is my paint chipping off after fifty laps?
Battle Sister: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA [gets rubbed on a foam board 100 times]
Good experiments! I now feel the need to varnish all of my minis...
Something I would definitely be interested in if you're in testing mode - Acrylic vs lacquer vs enamel varnishes.
My own subjective impression is that lacquer is just the best with a narrow exception - Lacquer does yellow over time and greasy fingers make it worse. Due to this I have been in the process of repainting a bunch of OG lead base pewter battletech stuff recently.
That being said, I could be full of crap and maybe acrylics or enamels are just better.
Brent, thanks for testing it on your models, so we can make a conscious decisions on how to protect ours :)