I remember on update 1.2.5 in 2012 I got the game to run on a pentium 3 from ~02-03 and 256mb of ram. Damn thing ran perfectly, albiet with a low render distance. Got 60fps easy. But in order to run it on that thing I had to turn off sound, since sound ate up precious cycles it couldn't afford. Still, it ran on a damn pc that had no right to run it. Now it just doesn't run on my slightly outdated modern pc.
@@glassramen I used to play 1.2.3-1.4.7 on a 2004 Pentium 4 HT 3.0GHz, 1GB RAM, Intel Extreme Graphics2, WinXP. While it didn't run well it was still kinda playable, though I'm pretty sure the FPS often dropped to single digits. With a better graphics card it would have ran pretty good, but sadly I didn't have one. My secondary PC at the time had a Celeron 1.8GHz, 512MB RAM, Radeon 7000, Lubuntu 10.04 and it kinda ran it too. Same thing with my Atom N270, 1GB, Intel GMA950, WinXP netbook.
As someone who uses Minecraft everyday, I can tell you I've noticed the performance drop. I shouldn't need 100+ mods to make Minecraft playable. I can play without mods, but the lag spikes and world generation in 1.19 is just unbearable.
i remember playing minecraft modpacks with like 200 mods on 1.7.10 and not lagging these days in 1.16.5 (popular version for modding) i cant even play with 50 mods without taking 30 minutes to open the game
In 1.12 united modders have begun to eternalize the version to make it permanent and immune to version chasing. Two of them have successfully backported a ton lf 1.13 and many more got 1.14 almost 100% backported. Additionally, another department has been unifying all of the performance mods under one called Universal Tweaks. Our groups are called the 1.12 Modding Coalition and CleanRoom. Minecraft has such a different modding predicament than other games where people dont have to constantly worry about porting to newer versions of that game, so we unified 1.12 under one banner. Thats where we stand atm lol
I mean, it is refreshing everything on the debug screen each frame and it's probably requesting information that's not used when it's not enabled, contributing to that
Maybe if the Minecraft Marketplace didn't pay like weed, Mojang would get more customers. Roblox devs make 50k a year, Minecraft Marketplace makes one penny to a fraction of a few dollars. Basically minimum wage.
@@sperglivesmatter2331 Lmao you don't even know how bad Roblox is for money. Do you know how much of what you make they take? Also where the heck did you get that number? Even if there are people that get that much they are 100% part of those that make games with 50k players and microtransactions everywhere
They actually did rewrite the whole game to take advantage of multithreading. Unfortunately, it's called Bedrock Edition. Seriously though, Bedrock is insane. I remember rendering the outer end islands from the main one with minimal lag.
I have a (medium tier) gaming laptop (7th gen i5 core and 950m Nvidia GTX) and I can confirm this. I have two fans to cool off my laptop and it still gets pretty warm. Good thing there are things like Optifine and Sodium otherwise it would melt
I remember when 1.13 came out my (at the time) Celeron N2840 laptop's FPS went from a playable 70-80ish FPS in 1.12.2 to less than 20 even with Optifine, this resulted in me not updating past 1.12.2 for 4 years after the fact!
Thats something that I used to love about Minecraft/still do about older versions, how you could still have a fun experience playing the game on a crappy Celeron or Pentium laptop. Unfortunately, as you said, it's not like that anymore.
fun fact: minecraft renders EVERYTHING in FULL DETAIL no matter how far it is. it’s mind blowing how a top 3 game of all time still has a major flaw covered in video games 101. edit: watch the video before you comment "but blocks are easy to render!!1!" lmao did you even look at the title
THANK GOD someone is talking about this!!! Up until very recently I used to have really old/low performance hardware for my PC, and I thought I was the only one who was getting frustrated with this lag! I wish Mojang would do a performance update so badly :(
Yep my Core2Duo E6720 runs the game fine, except for generating new chunks quickly on 1.19.2 - having issues with elytra. (w/optifine). I started using this machine which I built a month ago or so for £20 and it has been really nice. I think I may have to switch back to my gt1030 machine (Dell 7020 SFF) which I had some issues with in the way of general stabilibility. Although maybey installing sodium, lithium and starlight may help.
Yeah! Even with basic shaders now it’s quite possible for the game to freeze! I noticed a major difference using the same shaders between 1.12.2 and 1.19.2
Performance issues are also notorious in Bedrock for Nintendo Switch. Now surely the code for Bedrock Edition is more optimized than Java but that doesn't mean the experience doesn't change by the updates. Both would benefit with a performance update, since it would be infuriating if a game became much worse in performance on 8 year old hardware due to updates.
Since a few patches the performance on the switch became unbearable. Each autosave can lead to the game freezing for multiple seconds, sometimes even minutes. I used to enjoy playing with my kids on this world but now I lost all interest. New worlds are fine but our world is not that huge and it was working well.
@@sgdjtek As a Switch Player myself, there is also a bug that completely scraps your progress and starts you all over again at the world spawn. They did manage to improve the lag bug.
Back when I got into minecraft in 2013, I used to play on my cheap old Intel i3 laptop. It ran the game great. Fast forward to now, I built a pc with a Ryzen 7 5800x and 32gb of ram, and it still has issues when render distance is cranked above 26 chunks or so.
@@HTCaveman @Zed Yes fellas my pc can handle 32 chunks just fine under most circumstances but I keep it at 24-26 or so to keep the 1% lows higher than 60fps. When it's at 32 and I fly, or ride minecarts it starts getting shuddery when it has lots of new chunks to render.
Speaking as somebody who trains people in writing multi-threaded programs, modern programs are not so much driven by Moore's Law anymore, but rather by Amdahl's law. In fact, it's very challenging and when done not properly, usage of multiple cores can even hurt performance due to communication overhead. Also, many older computers don't have all the cores required for a smooth multicore-performance and will still experience lag. Though that's nothing new. These theories have been well known even before the existence of Minecraft. It's just that large companies tend to do feature-driven development rather than performance-oriented one. On large projects developers quickly hack stuff together to get features done. So performance decreases with time. But it's not impossible to change it, it just needs priority and some dedication. More performance offers more room for cooler features, like higher render distance, more entities, larger farms, etc. here Minecraft has still much room to improve. The large distances mod is a perfect example. Also still surprising how it is possible with 10 year old hardware to get moderate FPS rates. But you can't expect to have this. Vendors today sell flat laptops with 8GB Ram and the performance of 10 year old PCs and PCs without even a real graphics card for the full price, which is the real scam happening.
Im curious to know if its even possible to rewrite minecrafts code to take advantage of multi-threading while preserving mod compatability. What I mean to ask is if the modding community would be able to readily develop for such a monumentous shift to the games base code. Surely such a shift would take a substantially longer time to develop mods for. This is coming from someone with (very) limited knowledge on the subject but im just curious to hear your thoughts.
I remember playing on a server that had an anti-xray plugin, and one of the blocks it would scramble the world in places you weren't looking was air. The problem is, blocks that are exposed to air are never culled, so the server plugin would cut your FPS in half.
I've seen something this too... Except instead of air it replaced stone blocks with a bunch of random ores, which lagged alot, it was on 1.7.10 if I'm not mistaken
FINALLY. I've been saying this since 1.16 that MC desperately needs an update dedicated to performance. 1.13 dropped the performance pretty hard but that's to be expected with how deceptively massive that update is. 1.14 -1.15 are about the same performance wise. 1.16 was a similarly massive update like 1.13 and this is where I found the performance started to get really noticeable. Of course everyone was shouting "cAvE uPdAtE" so that's what we got for 1.17. Now 1.19 is here and the performance is _horrible_ . All of the weight these past updates have had are snowballing and Mojang doesn't seem to notice or care. I was hoping that 1.20 would be the "Optimization Update" which would have been perfect for a clean slate to build the future 1.2X versions on. I'm no programmer but it can't be that hard for Mojang to optimize the game when the community does it for free via mods. The difference between Fabric 1.19 with performance mods and Vanilla 1.19 is *insane* . The thing is, I have no doubt Mojang could do better than the modders, they just...don't. Is it because it isn't as marketable or flashy of an update? I think that's likely. But wouldn't it be better buisiness-wise if the game was more accessible to more people?...
@@masterdeetectiv9520 That's correct, 1.15 was a sort of "filler" update for MC that only added a few new gameplay features and was mostly focused on things behind the scenes. I remember server performance being a problem they mentioned they would improve. I have no idea how effective that was for servers but 1.15 barely if at all increases the performance of the game overall. I honestly don't think they did much more optimization to the game than they normally do in each update, which would explain why 1.15 ultimately didn't solve the performance issues at large. I think you're right that 1.15 did help 1.16 (and future versions) not completely shit the bed in performance. The problem I have with 1.15 is that it simply wasn't enough, and I don't believe they were invested in fixing the performance as much as they should have been for that update. Sorry for the long reply, I didn't elaborate on 1.15 in my original comment and I felt it was important to consider.
yes, an update with a name to attract people, but there is nothing stopping mojang from optimizing the game, they can just make a normal update with some fancy name and in the background work on performance, the update doesn't needs a name like "performance update"
While Minecrafts code is extremely unoptimized, its still very hard to run and calculate everything. Just because the game is made up of blocks with 16x16 textures its far more complex under the surface. There are some videos that explain this in detail
@@julesverne4561 It's actually extremely difficult to multithread something like minecraft. Since when you are multithreading you cannot guarantee the order things happen you could very well break every redstone contraption if not done well. The techniques to make sure things do not break cost performance and might make it actually slower when multithreaded. (This is ofc very simplified, there are definitely parts that can be multithreaded but it's really not as simple as "just make it run on multiple cores")
@@glugt9240ou can change chunk generating to a) generate different chunks on different threads and b) split chunks into vertical slices to all be run in parallel. You can move entity calculations to a new thread. There are options for multi threading. They don’t all need to be doing the same thing, and don’t have to be done in a particular order
The only thing that still kind of draws me back to older versions of the game is the fact that true single player feels so butter smooth compared to hosting a local server every time you load a world offline.
Uh the game always uses an internal server? It's only before the introduction of multiplayer that it didn't and i don't even remember what version that was but it definitely isn't recent
Yup they see it as a waste of company resources to train someone to optimize code. In fact modern mentality is to reduce dev Teams to the lowest number possible.
don't forgett that the quality that mojang/microsoft has to release is way higher than a mod. If there where any major bugs that would create a huge backlash. The number of people using the mods is way smaller compared to the people regularly playing minecraft, so the amount of people influenced by a bug will be far greater. Best thing that can happen is, they hire the mod author to help their team improve major bottlenecks. Also, not sure wich mod it is, seems to change chunk updates in a way that sand/gravel does not fall like one expects it to (only a small chunk of the gravel/sand drops) the rest stays.
@@youngarchivist Quality of code is not related to performance. I would even argue that high quality java code runs slower. The game did not get slower because they changed anything in the existing performance critical code, they just added more worldgeneration and features that slow down tick calculation.
As the developer of sodium said “performance doesn’t sell. source: my bank account” It’s the unfortunate but true fact that will probably prevent Microsoft from ever making a performance update to anything.
not really dude i get that ur trying to be cool with ur quotes and jabs at microsoft but making ur game more accessible and playable is obviously going to increase the amount of people who can actually run your other flashy updates
@@Vagen1 what? even if it's still not as good as bedrock edition, the performance increase is astounding. there was once a modpack that my PC ran at 1-2 fps, installed rubidium (a sodium port for forge) and instantly got to 50-60 fps with no spikes
@@siduxjxhdgzhdjxhxuuxxyhgg1079 I'd guess Microsoft would push Minecraft Bedrock Edition even harder on PC if that was the case. Still most MC players come from the mobile port (Bedrock) that easily runs on most smartphones already.
What Mojang fails to realize is that yes, while having an "optimization" update doesn't really "sell" in the eyes of the casual market who are unfamiliar with the technical side, a LARGE portion of their players will be absolutely ecstatic for it, despite it not adding anything fancy and new to the game. Just the performance increase alone would make it feel like a game worth playing again in the eyes of many, not to mention Minecraft is going to absolutely have a problem going forward if they _don't_ focus on some sort of performance update soon. Or, not to get my tinfoil hat on, it could maybe just be their plan for eventually phasing the Java edition of Minecraft out. They've already normalized its segregation from the "Bedrock" edition, and the writing is on the wall that the Java edition isn't going to be around forever. This could very well be why they haven't focused on any optimization for it, they're just trying to get their mileage out of it before throwing it to the way side. I hope it isn't true, but their actions with it leave much to be desired.
I'm so glad for all of the amazing performance enhancing mods that make playing the game possible, I just hope that a lot of optifine's remaining features can be fully ported to fabric so using the best performance mods is always possible.
Most of it it is on fabric but for some goddamn reason none of those have Forge mods despite Rubidium, Oculus and other perf mods ports existing and working well
Holy shit somebody finally knows the real problem Also, if they make a "performance update" people will complain for the lack of content, I saw it when 1.15 released. The fact its stupid people who do so doesnt mean they wont
Solution: Step 1- Make some shitty content update that only really introduces like ten new items, four new blocks, and one new mob/creature. Step 2- Intentionally make the update even laggier than ever before seen in the history of the entire planet. Step 3- Release a performance 'hotfix' that is really just the 'Performance Update' 40% of the player base wanted an hour later. ALTERNATE SOLUTION (GONE WRONG): INCLUDE THE PERFORMANCE UPDATE IN THE FORBIDDEN 'S3X UPATE' THAT MOJANG IS TOO SCARED TO RELEASE SO THAT THE HORNY PLAYERS CAN VIEW THEIR DEGENERACY AT THE HIGHEST GRAPHICS SETTINGS AT A SMOOTH 144FPS AND ABOVE.
People complain it not because of the lack of content, its because they don't see this as a major update. The 1.15 update's marketing is all about one addition, the "buzzy bees", and of course the community did not like it. They should've make it more transparent, and clarify why this is a "major update", because this update majorly improves the performances and a lot of bugfixes.
My theory is that because mods like sodium and optifine already exist there is less urgency for mojang to do anything. In their minds we players arent facing that many problems, since we use performance boosting mods anyways If these mods didnt exist then they would most likely focus a majority of their resources on optimisation since it would be more urgent But since these mods are a band aid solution to the optimisation issue they feel they can keep it for later
as great as those mods are, they're far more limited in what they can do than Mojang. theye can't rewrite the source code or anything. So if Mojang really wanted they could improve the performance of their game a LOT.
That has been the status quo for mojang for quite a while. I remember reading people's complaints about mojang's approach to the modding community in minecraft forums all the way back in 2013. (people were complaining about the lack of an official modding api back then)
@@drencor7402 little hard for me to imagine people complaining about a lack of a modding api (at least for Java) these days Forge and Fabric are both excellent already available options that the vast majority of mods are designed for now that Mojang need not bother. I would appreciate some official modding API for Bedrock though imagine being able to mod your PlayStation Minecraft that isn't just a shoddy behavior pack linked to just one single map you can't earn achievements on.
@@mwperk02 Consoles are _very_ locked down. No console manufacturer would ever allow any kind of significantly game changing mods. I'm surprised they even allow command blocks, let alone behavior packs.
Huge respect for repeating this test with all versions and presenting the results in a very understandable way. I remember playing the Minecraft beta and early release versions on very crappy single core hardware back in the day and even there the performance decreased with every update to a point where it became unplayable. I can confirm your results from 1.12 to 1.19 are very much in line with my experience on i7 3770 and RX580 but at least it's still playable. Additionally the game has become completely unplayable on older laptops with dual core CPUs. I think there is a minor mistake in the score at 5:59 but the graph looks alright and the correct score can be googled easily.
Thank you so much for putting your music links in the description. I REALLY wish youtubers would do this more. Great video btw, very well put together! ✨✨
i do think it is important to recognize the massive performance increases that have happened invisibly, playing on 1.18 terrain in 1.17 (which was possible) it was horribly slow. the ability to play with the increased world height at about the same fps is a near miracle. (also the same world test may have been not quite perfect due to the automatic world height increasing when upgrading from 1.17->1.18, i do believe it would be possible to repeat the test and avoid that added underground terrain, however im not sure how it would be done)
Thank you for your comment, prior to starting the tests I waited about 5 minutes for world to stop converting (while I was inside the world), so that there were as little lag spikes as possible when I started the test. I know its not a perfect way to measure, but I tried to give each version as much of simmilar conditions as possible. And in fact I believe that even if you would average a few gameplays across different worlds and versions you could get something similar in terms of decreased performance.
It's just Microsoft being Microsoft as per-usual. They are infamously terrible at performance optimization, Windows performs like garbage and it gets worse with every release due to legacy baggage they refuse to fix, Microsoft Office products eat up memory, powershell has severe lag when starting up, the Windows file explorer even today lags severely on image albums. It's just bad programming, there's no other excuse for it
I've been playing minecraft since 1.6.4 and you're definitely correct. The performance has gotten pretty bad to the point that I pretty much never play pure vanilla anymore. I always have a bunch of mods to fix all sorts of performance issues and bugs that Mojang haven't fixed. Nowadays that modlist has increased to almost a hundred mods when it started off as only Optifine. The last time I attempted to play pure vanilla was in 1.16.4 just to test what performance was like without Optifine but the lag spikes and the loading times weren't worth it so I gave up. I don't even touch a new version of minecraft until I'm sure that the performance mods I used are updated to a stable point and then I'll give the new update a go.
The first time I noticed performance drops was around 1.6.4. (I think it was 1.6.4) I don't know if it was just my laptop at the time but I had a feeling that ever since the FPS has just gotten worse. This video seems to indicate that my intuition was right.
@@Dr_Mundo Well, it's microsoft. And we are talking about One of the most selled games. Money wouldn't, and shouldn't be a problem And if you think it's a lot, try looking at dolphin versions. In 6 years they realeased about 20000 changes. And it's a free software. It's not necesseraly big changes, but as these mods are. I'm not even sure if having that much mods actually help performance, with some tweaks that overlaps or just charging the mods. And also, the mods already exist. It's not that hard to merge two codes. It take times, but much less than making it from scratch. Valve understood it, but microsoft don't seem to rely as much on the community
@@serzaknightcore5208 Money isn't the problem, Java is. Doesn't matter what they do, the game will always run terribly if they keep adding more content. They need to roll back the Java version to an older one and retire it. This is of course exactly what Microsoft wants so they can sell you DLC.
Okay, I knew I wasn't going crazy! I was so confused and frustrated when I got back into minecraft and realized how awful it run on my computer. Every other game worked just fine and I spent ages scratching my head wondering if it was just me experiencing this since I didn't see anyone else talking about it.
Wow, great video and amazing editing! I've never thought about this too much, since I never seemed to suffer from lag in Minecraft. I did often wondered why tech servers didn't make the leap to newer versions. Now this makes it quite clear. Minecraft was a game made in a couple of weeks by a guy in a basement. I do believe that in order to fix some of its fundamental programming issues, it should be rewritten from scratch. The thing is, it's not that hard! I'm surprised Mojand hasn't been working on an actual rewrite of the game since they became a real company! May be one day they will surprise us with it (they have rewritten parts of the game, possible because the code was just to amateurish to maintain) but a complete rewrite is still something that hasn't happened! Quick datum: Firefox completely rewrote its entire code around version 4 if I'm not mistaken, to introduce multithreading for tabs!
Interesting information, thank you for bringing this up ! And I agree that now that they have evolved into a proper company it woudn't be that hard for them to realise something like this. Another benefit would be that the game could be played on almost all devices (even ones like mine, where the game currently lags), which would make it more acessable to even wider audience.
I never actually suffered from lag in Minecraft. I always use performance mods and when my game lags, it is just time to reboot my computer. (Idk why, it just works) I use Arch, btw
Well, I can give you the answer to your question. Minecraft is no longer owned by "a guy from the basement" - it is now owned by a business. And the only goal of any business is to make money. Lets see now how Minecraft earns money. It is the bedrock marketplace! As TheMisterEpic revealed in his video, Microsoft takes around 70% of revenue from the market and only gives to creators the rest 30%. Java edition doesn't have a marketplace and will never have because of the success of mod support. Therefore, there is no point of making "Java Edition 2", as it would only decrease revenues for Microsoft. Which means, well, they'll never do it, unless there is a serious reason to do so. As one such reason I see Hytale. As Minecraft gets worse every day, other companies continue to improve. It Hytale turns out to be any good and gives Minecraft a fight, Microsoft will simply be forced to do something or they would lose the whole market. But until anything like this happens, we're stuck with a laggy mess, as nothing can force them to improve the situation
while, yes, i absolutely LOVE the new changes minecraft has gotten gameplay-wise, i really think it's time for a performance update. the game really shouldn't be loading in textures hundreds of blocks below you, especially with all of the new textured content. deep dark update? one of my favorite updates to a game in recent memory. should it require rendering in hundreds of sensors with their own animation every time someone walks over a city? idk about everyone else, but i like my laptop like i like my houses, not burnt to the ground
As someone who spent the better part of a decade making Minecraft servers. PaperMC is the only reason we still have playable (vanilla) multiplayer nowadays.
aside from the fact it breaks uncountable machanics and makes remotely advanced redstone impossible, yes caffeineMC offers even better performance nowadays without those massive drawbacks ok I'm probably biased as I'm a technical player but to me paper is basically unplayable
@@Ruthro Paper also ruins and destroys datapack mechanics too. Paper achieves it's performance by stripping the game of tons of mechanics and base functionality. It works but only for vanilla survival or highly custom servers with extensive plugin work.
@@jaredschneider9662 I think it depends a lot on the settings. which if anything is even worse because every server is different thus it's hard to make something specifically for paper servers
I picked up Minecraft again sometime last year out of boredom and was surprised to notice just how many issues I had with performance. The last time I played (I believe in 2020) I was able to run shaders on servers that had farms without any significant frame drops but now i was struggling to play on an SMP server without lagging everytime I moved. I originally chalked it up to my laptop deteriorating but I’m glad to see it isn’t solely the case. I hope mojang implements some fixes soon tho
Still think Microsoft is entirely behind this. There is no way such a large company can do this bad for such a profitable game, that modders who often aren't paid can do way better. They keep it bad so people buy more expensive PCs which have parts made by them and windows operating system (to take people from Mac OS) which they profit from enormously. Due to the lack of competition Microsoft can keep the game bad and people will still pay for it. Also they lowered at bedrock launch especially fps for switch and playstation 4 to get people to buy Xbox and PC, I don't believe for one second bedrocks launch on playstation wasn't planned to be an fps disaster on splitscreen for both. Thank goodness they have been banned from buying Activision Blizzard, horrible company.
@@tortoisewarrior4855 Microsoft doesn't really make any hardware tho? At least the hardware they make (with the exception of Xbox) isn't capable of gaming, plus Java edition is mostly the responsibility of the original Mojang studio. The Microsoft division of it is only working on Bedrock
@@ZedDevStuff After looking at what Microsoft owns they don't own a whole lot of parts from other PC companies, and they obviously don't gain many players at from them buying their PCs. But they still make an enormous amount from the Windows operating system, which they make money from through various different methods. The Java edition of the game isn't directly controlled by them but they can definitely fix priorities and give them less money to fix certain issues. But yes after I did more research it doesn't look like they would profit enormously, which shows incompetence being part of the issue if true.
I can recall when 1.13 was first in development Update Aquatic was supposed to be implemented in 1.14, but before this they were meant to fix specifically technical issues in 1.13 (even calling it something like "The Technical Update") but at some point they merged the two updates together which must have destroyed performence because they had now cut the extra time they'd planned to work on a technical upgrade first.
it is a real shame the performance has been tanking so hard for vanilla players though. the ability to properly swim has remained one of my favorite additions to the game. I do recall there being an old smart movements mod which added features like swimming and crawling that we have now but also stuff like climbing up 2 high blocks (and I think 3 high if you jumped) it added a whole little stamina meter and everything.
It was called Technically Updated, which is a pun playing on the fact that because it's a technical update, it would appear to only technically be updated.
As good as its sounds, multithreading a very complex game like minecraft is a very hard task. Sure you can optimize the diffrent kind of logic such as rendering, game ticks, and network packet receiving on a separate thread, but optimizing one game tick into multiple threads is a bit dangerous and tricky since everything from physics, mobs logic, or just the world logic in general needs to be executed by order. Even though you eventually managed to make it multithreading, it will be hard to add a feature in the future updates. But yeah, i think a multi billion dollar budget game with the smartest people working on it, it's a bit possible to achieve that.
I love the new features in Minecraft, but I really shouldn't have to mod the game just to get better performance. Also, I usually use C2ME which spreads chunk loading across multiple cores, so that'd be an interesting test to see!
@@AJ213Probably yeah that would be awesome, honestly not sure why they haven’t tried to implement it yet, at least LODs cause distant horizons already runs pretty good
Infinite build height is probably impossible to implement because it would mean a chunk would have to have a height of infinity. Each block takes up a certain amount of space in the computer's memory and a chunk is completely filled with blocks. Even air probably takes up some memory, if you want infinite build height, you would litteraly need infinite storage and RAM on your pc. Basically, in a world where minecraft has infinite build height, your PC would die after trying to load 1 chunk
I've noticed a major performance drop too. 1.17 and before, I never noticed my fans going crazy, but after about 1.18 or 1.19 my computer's fans would always get super loud while playing and I'd notice a buuuuuunch more lag
@@CraftingTable3076 I'd say yes, it began in 1.16. I still often play huge 1.12 modpacks and dont really have many perfomance problems, but i cant play 1 19 even with like 40-50 mods without huge fps drops.
I made strong researchs on why this new versions of Minecraft lag. In fact this is due to the size of the chunks, since they doubled the height of each of them the cpu needs more time to load them, exactly twice more. It means any player with 100fps immediatly has 50 now. Then they added more types of blocks, this require more cpu usage too. Then the big problem is the giant caves, when you generate new chunk the underground lava appears too, and the game generate them by step, every lava waterfall must "fall" the first time you generate it, and this cause massive lag. Water does the same and when it genereates it breaks blocks in the process (rails, plants, etc), all these items are floating and moving with this water on each new chunk... I checked it with a tool, for each part of the world you load with a render distance of 8 it generates 80 to 500 items that needs 5 minutes to vanish. That's why we have lag spikes. The idea is to generate the world and wait until these items disappear but you have to keep them visible to make them vanish, so without tools to erase these useless item you'll need time to walk in your world until they are all gone. It's broken. Sodium is good because it can "deload" these item from a certain distance, but sometimes they'll still appear and being render, causing lag spikes. The only way I've found is to play on servers that run on super computers, to let this process running and reduce the distance of render to 2 chunks only. I had 150fps before these update, now I struggle to get more than 40 with all tricks possible, without these mods I would be stuck to 5 or 6 fps. So yeah, minecraft is dying because of that. I suggest to set the render distance to minimum and use Distant Horizon to keep "fake chunks" loaded in memory for a few ram usage. The fact Mojang is adding new mobs is dangerous because these mods (like bees) cause lag. You can also use tools to generate a world without caves. The new minecraft launcher is also a problem, I need 5 minutes to launch the game while it should take a few seconds. This is due to the RAM usage, for some reason it seems the game check every file at start, it'll load every mob and texture everytime instead of doing it while we play. This mean you suddently need at least 4gb RAM to play it while 1.5gb was enough before. For devices with only 8gb playing this game is now tricky, not impossible but it requires knowledge of mods and customizations, meaning any kid trying the game today could give up due to bad performances. It's a big problem to keep the game alive.
I've notice this, minecraft used to be a game for the low end computers, now you really need a huge processor to simply keep up with the game, its getting closer to mid-high end pcs, and thats not good for a popular children game, it needs to run in low end pcs to be as popular as ever, that was the best feature it had and is losing it
Minecraft could be incredibly low-performance if they worked to improve it. If Mojang needed to, they could probably get in contact with some of the modders to get this kind of improvement into vanilla-minecraft. They got the horses from the Mo' Creatures mod too, so why not? I also only recently heard about a mod that lets you render basically the entire map of minecraft, border to border with minimal to no drops in performance. Imagine the things we could have if all of these things worked together... but for now we can only dream. I think i should add: Obviously modding minecraft isn't hard, so I understand why improving performance isn't a high priority if we can just simply mod it. But it still sometimes is a pain to wait for the mods to update, or not being able to play with performance-improving mods in snapshots... I think it would still be a huge plus for them to improve vanilla mc like that.
Yeah, I think at this point they should have a smaller sub team solely dedicated to performance each update, and my choice is the modders making these mods. Also, it lacks some pretty notable optimization in general like rendering only what the camera is pointed at.
@@QwixLF Yup! That's a good idea. The modders, if they can and do choose to work with Mojang, would be great :) Or obviously they should otherwise be compensated and credited for it if Mojang were to use their mods as a basis for improving performance. And yeah, true, it really doesn't need to render whats behind the camera lol... it could probably render twice as much in front of the camera if that got improved too xD
@@QwixLF there is really no reason to make it a subteam the code needs to be done and tested first to be than optimized, it cannot be done in parallel soo just put these prorammers in to the main theme and designate them as optimization programmers
as someone who has a computer from 2013: i need performance mods, i reccomend: Sodium (increases overall fps), would recomend Sodium Extra and Reese's options, if you want to customize your settings more. LazyDFU (12 lines of code that make minecraft load like 13 times faster) FerriteCore (less memory usage) Lithium (server ticks, i think) Krypton (server ticks/updates) Distant Horizons (adds LODS) Starlight (lightsources? ig) Entity Culling (culls entities) DynamicFPS (fps is more consistent, but is dynamic in a way) Clumps (all xp orbs get together to form one huge one) CullLessLeaves (not as detailed as normal leaves, but they arent see through llike full-on cullleaves) Debugify (fixes bugs from the minecraft bug report platform)
Ahhhhh a fellow cultured crafter. Literally the exact same mods in my performance mod pack. I can also recommend: Fastopenlinks (keeps your game responsive while opening screenshots and such from in game) Iris (shaders that dont destroy your fps) Logicalzoom (For the funnsies. It's a programable zoom key like optifine) Oh yeah, and starlight is about lightsources. It's a complete rewrite of the lighting engine. Cheers mate 🍻
Quick tip, you can disable hyperthreading in your computers bios to get better single threaded performance, it wil hurt performance in other applications a bit, but it helps with minecraft java edition
for me it takes 10 seconds only because i use a TON of mods (like sodium, exordium, dashloader and so on, i have almost every single actual working performance mod lmao)
@@lilypad429 im on latest version and i have linux with open source java which is faster than the one thats on windows and thats honestly weird that youre insta loading lol
Honestly my biggest problem with the newer Minecraft updates is that they add so many borderline useless features that just feel like padding while not improving on flaws in the existing game like the performance and combat.
minecraft 1.18 world gen changes were a mistake, there has been a solution to this around for years, but mojang just kindof ignored it. Its called cubic chunks. It should have been put in the game years ago. Many other games use it and there are even mods. It needs to get added.
It was a good idea but implemented poorly. Terrain generation should have been far more different. I would actually prefer the new caves and old terrain generation
my minecraft literally takes 10 - 15 minutes JUST on loading, it really sucks because when I play the older version of minecraft, it loads in just 30 seconds and thats what I loved about minecraft
I'm sorry, don't want to be that guy, but at 4:43 you said that Caves & Cliffs released November 2020, when in fact it released November 2021, it's only like just over a year old lol
I have to say one thing about your measurements... in the new versions with the newest generator, the world is being smoothed out in the transition from the old generator chunks to the new ones. That means the game has to do three things instead of one (generate a new chunk, modify an old chunk, modify a new chunk)... this also happens downwards, so it lowers the game's performance quite a bit. I'd rather try generating multiple worlds in every version separately and then averaging the results. The first time I opened my survival world, where I deleted all the chunks I explored but don't use I was at 15 FPS for a few minutes. Don't get me wrong, I agree that new versions have a bad performance, but you made it look even worse with the way you collected data.
Hello thank you for your comment, yes you are right that this had some impact (which I didnt think of when making the video), before the measurements I waited around 5 minutes for all the major lagspikes to settle so that it would be more fair. And since someone pointed the same thing out a couple of days ago I also repeated the 1.19 test. The problematic part is that I cant generate the same world from seed in each version that I tested, since world generation changed so many times, so I just created a new world from same seed in version 1.19 and redid a few tests: The average FPS went from 56 in 1.19 with world that was generated in 1.7 to 72 with a world generated purely in 1.19. The FPS lows went from my original 5 to 17. So it is indeed better, but that still doesn’t change the fact that the decrease in performance is still there. From 1.7 to 1.19 (avg fps 172 to 72), fps lows (from 144 to 17).
I went on to play some Mods on 1.12 and it honestly shocked me how much the performance differs from recent versions. 1.12 with Mods and just Optifine somehow runs two to three times better than 1.19 with all the usual performance enhancing mods.
As someone who host server minecraft since 2013 until now, I can confirm this: I can run 1.6.4 Faction server (1-2GB) with 100 players (Intel Dual-Core CPU), and it use HDD. Now, running 6GB with massive optimization (Intel Xeon Processor) that runs tps 9-18 fluctuated at 10 players. The massive problem is the Chunk load, and how many server had to Force people to Preload Chunks first before making server, otherwise, loading a Piece of Chunk can take up to 5-10 seconds on low-budget hoster (Xeon 3.5ghz for example), and I think best example should be 1.19 because its unbelievably unoptimized. And yes, I just don't understand why Minecraft never took advantage on Multi-threaded system, now its already 2023 😔
You are explaining a lot of technical details in the video, and I want to add more. I am software developer and also i am writing Minecraft mods. People may think x cores can do x times more amount of work than single core. It is true only in case if these threads don't need any synchronization. As soon as you need to sychronize workload benefit of additional cores decreases. And from the other side complexity of your code also rises. And rare occasional bugs, which is hard to debug and can happen only on specific CPU is nightmare. Yeah, it is pretty hard to add proper multithreading support to Minecraft. If it would be easy task simeone could already create mod or server plugin. But as you stated in video this requires complete rewrite of server code.
Adding on to this, some third party server softwares do separate some of the game's logic into multiple cores, but only for things like chat or networking. There is a fork of Paper (Spigot fork) called Akarin which is striving to create a fully multi-threaded minecraft server software, but right now its most stable version is 1.12.2.
@@doinkstr adding onto this its literally not hard to make a multi threaded spigot me and my friends have done it many times it just requires having a brain but also it would also not need a complete game re write to implement multi threading if you download mcp you will see this isnt true just needs people with brains
I remember I had a shitty guest computer in my home when I was a kid. I would bring friends home and we could play minecraft together. I would not dream of trying to run minecraft on a computer like that today. I used the same computer to run my server, and as updates came along it became practically unable to generate chunks. Any time someone went to a new area in the world it made the ticks chug like crazy for the entire server. We had to announce to each other if we wanted to go exploring so it wouldn't mess with anyone else.
Im glad you made a video about this. Like am i insane for not wanting to drop thousands on a gaming pc just to play a block game?? It should be able to run on a 2019 laptop perfectly fine
I used to have a PC that was just an Intel i5-8500 with integrated graphics, 8GB RAM and a simple 128GB SSD. I had that for about 4 years, and Minecraft was one of the main games I played since about 2011. I had a solid 70-90fps average around 2016-2017 on that thing, but around 2019 I saw my FPS was averaging about 30-40, I had cleaned out my PC and done a refresh, but nothing changed. I adjusted settings, nothing. I eventually did get the PC I have now with an i5-12400F and a RTX 3060 TI, which I now have about 300FPS+ on average, but I’m still noticing spikes down to like 50FPS when doing certain things. It isn’t regular, it happens probably every 1-2 hours, but still, a PC with those specs shouldn’t even experience THAT kinda lag running MINECRAFT. It’s just weird at this point.
Honestly the only reason why I never play minecraft Java is because when loading a map the performance takes forever to get to a reasonable level in game, plus grass and other stuff lag out my game to an insane degree especially on high render distance. Bedrock is better in this regard, as I can basically play it at max settings and my pc runs it perfectly well and quietly.
as someone who has an 8yo laptop (roughly), ive defineatly noticed the drop in performance. Nowdays i absolutely rely on mods to play the game - and even then i cant play singleplayer and have to utilise services like aternos to run a server for myself (i cant afford to pay for one).
I feel as if there’s an oversight that the creator didn’t address. A world generated by older versions is going to have problems with newer world generation coding. For example world height changed. I’m going to make up some numbers to show the differences as I don’t remember the exact numbers off the top of my head. Let’s say the world height was 100 blocks, with diamonds and redstone spawning at Y12, Iron spawning from Y14 to Y30, and hills/mountains can have a max height of Y50. Now comes a new version that changed this to a world height of 175, Diamonds can spawn below Y12, Redstone below Y15, iron from Y13 to Y35, Coal from Y5 to Y65, and a new resource Copper at Y25 to Y50, and then Mountains have a max height of Y90. THEN ANOTHER new version comes along. Max height 300, and the various ores now come in a new type, you add a new rock type (Deepslate), and change all these spawning rules again. Here’s the problem, those world generating conflict with each other, causing an overlap in the coding and causes it to drastically slow down as it has to fill in these new spawning rules in any gaps. For instance bedrock in the over world got pushed down to make room for a Deepslate layer. Meaning importing a WORLD from 1.7 to 1.19 is going to cause a LOT of issues as it was generated with older generating code. This simply doesn’t work well. ==== Ok, so what’s the point? Well I want to emphasize the issue of bringing a specific WORLD from an older version to a newer version. While also pointing out that developers are aware of this. This is why if you check the world SEED in multiple versions you will see that the seed is NOT the same across versions. Case in point is my current Let’s Play World the Spawn point in 1.17 is in a plains biome; however, in 1.19 that same spawn point/seed is now in, I think, a snowy peaks type biome. ==== This is the failure of the creator to point out that he’s using the same world from an older version in all of the versions instead of showing the same seed. Of course there’s going to be performance issues.
You are right, importing the same world causes massive lag spikes, thats why I waited around 5 minutes for everything to level out and all the adjustments to be made. Then the lag spikes were almost the same as if I would be playing in world created in the same world.
The other method that I could use would be to average a bunch of different gameplays done in the same version, but that would require a bunch of samples to get a good result
@@LordJon25 That doesn't fix the underlying issue here. You generated a world in an older version then brought that world forward into later versions that uses different coding for ore, terrain, mob, lighting, etc. You're "control" with a standard world is flawed here. Instead you should have used a control seed.
Fair point, so to test that I went back to version 1.19.2 where the original measurement was taken. I took the world seed from previous world where I tested all the other versions and created a brand-new world in 1.19.2's world creation tool (of course world generation has changed at least a few times (since 1.7) so, the biomes were not the same, but I spawned near plains and ocean which is close enough to the original test. The average FPS went from 56 in 1.19 with world that was generated in 1.7 to 72 with a world generated purely in 1.19. The FPS lows went from my original 5 to 17. The problem is still that the worlds simply can’t be the same while generated in different versions because of the world generation changing every few versions and so does the seed's output. In order to truly measure a more accurate situation, you would need to average gameplay of hundreds of players across multiple versions and biomes which I do not have resources to do. But that still doesn’t change the fact that the decrease in performance is still there. From 1.7 to 1.19 (avg fps 172 to 72), fps lows (from 144 to 17). The purpose of this video was to give a rough expectation of how the game progressed with versions and since the new results still show a clear downwards trends, I do not intend to remeasure more till I find it necessary.
You missed a very important thing, Minecraft Bedrock makes use of all cores and threads of your CPU, so that's why performance is much much better in bedrock, and even a smartphone processor can sometimes outmatch a PC performance in Java Vs Bedrock
I have worked on Minecraft's code (modding) for multiple versions. In the original notch code, everything was implemented in the most naive way, it wasn't optimized at all. Also it used OpenGL 1.1 for some reason. It uses ancient methods for rendering, which are very slow. Then they finally did start "optimizing" it around 1.7. But by "optimize" they meant "use all the worst 'best practices' taught in academia". They started going insane with the object-orientation, to the point where even things like coordinates are a class. In C this isn't a problem, but in Java all classes have to be allocated on the heap which is much slower than the stack, and then the garbage collector has to go through all of them. Also, Java. Java isn't necessarily slow in general, but something like Minecraft really needs control of memory management that Java just doesn't have.
Come on guys mojang knows exactly what we want. We all want chat policing, an absolutely useless and ugly mob called a sniffer, and clay pots because that will make the game better. What would we do without the genius insight of the mojang developers? Do they even play the game? The community polls are so bad and 8 year olds who don’t even know half the games mechanics vote for a glow squid that doesn’t even glow.
@@enolopanr9820 once I was exploring caves in 1.19 and heard a noise then saw some blue things and thought oh cool the warden cause I never seen it before but it was just this squid
If Mojang's recent behavior is anything to go by, there's not much hope that they'll put any effort in to optimizing the game. They're more focused on being diverse and inclusive, and haven't even added anything that actually improved gameplay since the Nether Update. It's all up to the modding community to keep Minecraft great.
I can run RDR2 on max graphics and keep stability and zero drops in performance, even with mods. Minecraft not only takes longer to load than RDR2, it is also less stable despite being less graphically intensive and "simple." It's a shame, Minecraft used to be the only game I COULD play on my old laptop back in 2012; I would not be able to play the same game on that same computer today.
Performance mods are basically a requirement now unless you have fairly modern and powerful computer. I've played Java minecraft since 2014 and I've always used Optifine and as of recently Sodium.
Im so glad you made this video addressing this huge issue. One thing thats been going on is version eternalization, where we create a permanent playerbase under one version. The 1.12 Modding Coalition and Cleanroom have done that. It is my belief that in the modding scene, devs should be allowed to choose which version they want to make mods in, rather than be pushed to chase the newest version and inevitably slowly bug out your mod each port. Its a slow death tbh. I hope groups like the Betweenlands, Scape and Run Parasites, and 2B2T can convince players that they dont have to play on the newest version nor do mods have to be on the newest version. Mojang is not going to support modded, so we should do it ourselves in whatever version we want. Anyways, great video showing the differences between versions. It really shines a light.
i still have a feeling that not too far into the future microsoft / mojang is gonna stop supporting & updating the java version entirely in favor of something like the windows 10 version
Can confirm, 1.17 on my upgrading saga world sucked so badly I think I had 100 crashes from running out of memory. I have 16 gigabytes of RAM, with 3GB of it allocated.
16gb's of ram installed, with only 3gb allocated. My man of course you're crashing constantly, Minecraft at minimum needs 8gb of RAM on latest versions!
You make some good points. Chunk generation is quite slow, especially for 1.18+ because it is very complex. Effectively there is a "single" density function that needs to be calculated for every single block in a chunk to determine if it starts out as stone, water/lava or air. In reality its a more of a composite of density functions but the basic principal remains, block position goes in, stone/water/lava/air comes out. But ultimately it boils down to a choice of 3 options, get better hardware, lower your render/simulation distance or play bedrock. Could mojang do it better, yes. But if a features update vs a performance update was put to a public vote, I suspect the features would win.
You have a point, main thing that slows everything in 1.19 is loading additional 60+ layers of world o chunk. Now it is like loading two worlds at the same time. I know that there is some room for improvement but not much especially on java. :( Now Bedrock gains his pros :D
one thing that you missed are villagers who in version 1.12.2 had far less complicated AI than in version 1.14 also generation of nether in 1.16 also sculk from 1.19 i like how the kids in the curse forge comment section spam modders about "moving from the past" when they themself can't even open newer versions on family laptop without it crashing 90% of the time XDXDXDXD
i love how the cod is flopping around during the lag demo at the start. great video and great editing! i 100% agree with what you say. 1.12.2 is also the version i play the most lol. it has a ton of great modpacks. same with 1.7.10 for example gregtech new horizons a pack with so much more stuff than vanilla that i thought it would be impossible for my computer to even make the world, it has much better fps than 1.19.x vanilla. this is incredibly funny.
Behold, the power of Wirth's Law! "As the transistor count in the CPU/GPU doubles every 18 months due to Moore's law, software efficiency halves every 18 months, compensating Moore's law", or as some put it, "What Intel giveth, Microsoft taketh away". - - - - - At all seriously, I cannot express my gratitude with this video. You have done an outstanding job at demonstrating the lag and identifying its possible culprits. Your channel is very much underrated in my humble opinion. Keep it up!
I feel like this is almost a conscious thing that Microsoft is forcing Mojang to do so that Bedrock edition is pushed more than Java, the only reason Bedrock isnt as popular is because lack of certain modding support and different game mechanics, redstone etc. Microsoft wants the Bedrock version to be THE version of Minecraft, just like they stopped updates to old gen console Minecraft versions, at some point Java will stop getting updates while they still support Bedrock.
When my laptop broke 3 years ago and was basically unusable, I got a new gaming laptop out of my budget and finally found time to play the game last week, I was completely shocked that it couldn't run the game on 30 FPS in the latest update; since it could run literally every game out there on high quality settings with usually no issues. After lots of enhancements and modding, the game runs on sub 60 FPS and infrequent lag with shaders on. also, me when he said 1.12 came out 6 years ago instead of last month: 0 - 0
I too have observed a decline in performance. On several low-end i3 laptops over the last ten years, I have never experienced noticeable lag in loading new chunks, within my PCs capabilities. I now have an i5 Surface Pro 4, and my last gameplay session suffered horribly in movement speed and stuttering whilst rendering new chunks in the latest version. I typically keep my render distance minimal, but have had to increase it, balancing the FPS by having chunks load in before I need them. I hoped this was a short term issue that could be resolved by giving my PC a break, lord knows the Surface Pro 4 has thermo-effciency issues, but this video's findings bring me more concern as the issue appears far from unique. I hope universal performance is something Mojang is considering, and will find a way to improve.
One of the most simplest and easiest game to run is becoming one of the most demanding games to play.
Java version is all java code i believe, might be why not sure
Remember a few years ago when people were joking about getting a beefy pc just to play minecraft
Welp
I remember on update 1.2.5 in 2012 I got the game to run on a pentium 3 from ~02-03 and 256mb of ram. Damn thing ran perfectly, albiet with a low render distance. Got 60fps easy. But in order to run it on that thing I had to turn off sound, since sound ate up precious cycles it couldn't afford. Still, it ran on a damn pc that had no right to run it. Now it just doesn't run on my slightly outdated modern pc.
It's a common misbelief that Minecraft is easy to run because of its simple graphics
@@glassramen I used to play 1.2.3-1.4.7 on a 2004 Pentium 4 HT 3.0GHz, 1GB RAM, Intel Extreme Graphics2, WinXP. While it didn't run well it was still kinda playable, though I'm pretty sure the FPS often dropped to single digits. With a better graphics card it would have ran pretty good, but sadly I didn't have one.
My secondary PC at the time had a Celeron 1.8GHz, 512MB RAM, Radeon 7000, Lubuntu 10.04 and it kinda ran it too. Same thing with my Atom N270, 1GB, Intel GMA950, WinXP netbook.
As someone who uses Minecraft everyday, I can tell you I've noticed the performance drop. I shouldn't need 100+ mods to make Minecraft playable. I can play without mods, but the lag spikes and world generation in 1.19 is just unbearable.
i remember playing minecraft modpacks with like 200 mods on 1.7.10 and not lagging these days in 1.16.5 (popular version for modding) i cant even play with 50 mods without taking 30 minutes to open the game
@@promemesseller9660 1.18.2 has faster loading speeds for mods apparently, something about multithreading
In 1.12 united modders have begun to eternalize the version to make it permanent and immune to version chasing.
Two of them have successfully backported a ton lf 1.13 and many more got 1.14 almost 100% backported.
Additionally, another department has been unifying all of the performance mods under one called Universal Tweaks. Our groups are called the 1.12 Modding Coalition and CleanRoom.
Minecraft has such a different modding predicament than other games where people dont have to constantly worry about porting to newer versions of that game, so we unified 1.12 under one banner.
Thats where we stand atm lol
@@zonkowhere can I learn more about this? Is there a Reddit or discord?
@@zonko.
It's also worth noting that these days even simply bringing up the F3 metrics screen to look at performance causes a hit to performance.
Alt+R for the Nvidia overlay
I mean, it is refreshing everything on the debug screen each frame and it's probably requesting information that's not used when it's not enabled, contributing to that
@@ZedDevStuff the text renderer is the problem, it is just horrible
Maybe if the Minecraft Marketplace didn't pay like weed, Mojang would get more customers. Roblox devs make 50k a year, Minecraft Marketplace makes one penny to a fraction of a few dollars. Basically minimum wage.
@@sperglivesmatter2331 Lmao you don't even know how bad Roblox is for money. Do you know how much of what you make they take? Also where the heck did you get that number? Even if there are people that get that much they are 100% part of those that make games with 50k players and microtransactions everywhere
They actually did rewrite the whole game to take advantage of multithreading. Unfortunately, it's called Bedrock Edition.
Seriously though, Bedrock is insane. I remember rendering the outer end islands from the main one with minimal lag.
Unfortunately there's so much wrong with bedrock. From the UI to many core mechanics
@@kaisercortex4115 the "Minecraft Marketplace" and "Minecoins" make me nauseous
@@kaisercortex4115 yes but many of them can be changed with mods, and in my experience at least mods do not hinder the fps at all in bedrock
@@kaisercortex4115 There really is not that much difference to the core mechanics, very minimal.
@@Gian_sas There aren't any good mods tho.
the lag spikes are so frustrating, I would prefer having my game run at a locked 45 fps than have it at 120 dipping to 10 every few seconds.
lock it at 65 or 60 it will help
@@AdixyaSf thanks but I've tried that to not so good results.
Use ray tracing shaders and open your freezer
Take out the steak and have a bbq party
Dont forget to invite your friends
Do you play on PC (and if so do you have an SSD)?
I have a (medium tier) gaming laptop (7th gen i5 core and 950m Nvidia GTX) and I can confirm this. I have two fans to cool off my laptop and it still gets pretty warm. Good thing there are things like Optifine and Sodium otherwise it would melt
I remember when 1.13 came out my (at the time) Celeron N2840 laptop's FPS went from a playable 70-80ish FPS in 1.12.2 to less than 20 even with Optifine, this resulted in me not updating past 1.12.2 for 4 years after the fact!
I remember at the start of 1.13, one server had set view distance to 2 instead of default 10. It could load only 2 - 4 chunks and fps were below 10
my brother. i used to be like you. i love you.
haha me too ! N2840 the exact same
Thats something that I used to love about Minecraft/still do about older versions, how you could still have a fun experience playing the game on a crappy Celeron or Pentium laptop. Unfortunately, as you said, it's not like that anymore.
Me and my friends also had bad pcs so we stuck to 1.12.2 for years
fun fact: minecraft renders EVERYTHING in FULL DETAIL no matter how far it is. it’s mind blowing how a top 3 game of all time still has a major flaw covered in video games 101.
edit: watch the video before you comment "but blocks are easy to render!!1!" lmao did you even look at the title
The Distant Horizons Mod adds LoD, it's really astonishing how far you can look with this mod.
minecraft would look wrong with LOD model quality, but there IS mipmapping.
they should reduce lighting resolution at certain distances
@@cobaltdev it actually don't look that bad and it's cool to see to border lol
Set distance to 2 or 4, then use Distant Horizon, it's a serious fix.
It wouldn't make much sense for Minecraft to change that, since 16x16 graphics aren't that detailed in the first place.
2015: Can it run Crysis?
2020: Can it run Doom?
2023: Can it run Minecraft?
THANK GOD someone is talking about this!!! Up until very recently I used to have really old/low performance hardware for my PC, and I thought I was the only one who was getting frustrated with this lag! I wish Mojang would do a performance update so badly :(
Yep my Core2Duo E6720 runs the game fine, except for generating new chunks quickly on 1.19.2 - having issues with elytra. (w/optifine). I started using this machine which I built a month ago or so for £20 and it has been really nice. I think I may have to switch back to my gt1030 machine (Dell 7020 SFF) which I had some issues with in the way of general stabilibility. Although maybey installing sodium, lithium and starlight may help.
@JO JO If a game requires mods to be playable, you shouldn't play it
To their credit, they drastically improved performance in 1.15, but all that progress was undone in 1.17 and 1.18.
Yeah! Even with basic shaders now it’s quite possible for the game to freeze! I noticed a major difference using the same shaders between 1.12.2 and 1.19.2
me too, lagging as well
Performance issues are also notorious in Bedrock for Nintendo Switch. Now surely the code for Bedrock Edition is more optimized than Java but that doesn't mean the experience doesn't change by the updates. Both would benefit with a performance update, since it would be infuriating if a game became much worse in performance on 8 year old hardware due to updates.
Since a few patches the performance on the switch became unbearable. Each autosave can lead to the game freezing for multiple seconds, sometimes even minutes.
I used to enjoy playing with my kids on this world but now I lost all interest. New worlds are fine but our world is not that huge and it was working well.
@@sgdjtek As a Switch Player myself, there is also a bug that completely scraps your progress and starts you all over again at the world spawn.
They did manage to improve the lag bug.
looks like you found your problem, you're playing on a switch.
Actually there's a reason why people don't do "performance update"
Is because there are gonna be bitches who will complain about no new features
Bedrock is worse in it's functionality and gameplay
Back when I got into minecraft in 2013, I used to play on my cheap old Intel i3 laptop. It ran the game great. Fast forward to now, I built a pc with a Ryzen 7 5800x and 32gb of ram, and it still has issues when render distance is cranked above 26 chunks or so.
I have a 3050 and a r5 5600G. I can go up to 32 without issues
You guys get to play minecraft?
1070Ti, 16GB, i7 8700k. Even with shdders at 32 render distance it's fine. You sure you didnt screw something up?
@@HTCaveman @Zed
Yes fellas my pc can handle 32 chunks just fine under most circumstances but I keep it at 24-26 or so to keep the 1% lows higher than 60fps. When it's at 32 and I fly, or ride minecarts it starts getting shuddery when it has lots of new chunks to render.
Swith to bedrock. That system could give you 96 chunks seamlessly.
Speaking as somebody who trains people in writing multi-threaded programs, modern programs are not so much driven by Moore's Law anymore, but rather by Amdahl's law.
In fact, it's very challenging and when done not properly, usage of multiple cores can even hurt performance due to communication overhead.
Also, many older computers don't have all the cores required for a smooth multicore-performance and will still experience lag.
Though that's nothing new. These theories have been well known even before the existence of Minecraft.
It's just that large companies tend to do feature-driven development rather than performance-oriented one.
On large projects developers quickly hack stuff together to get features done. So performance decreases with time.
But it's not impossible to change it, it just needs priority and some dedication. More performance offers more room for
cooler features, like higher render distance, more entities, larger farms, etc. here Minecraft has still much room to improve.
The large distances mod is a perfect example.
Also still surprising how it is possible with 10 year old hardware to get moderate FPS rates. But you can't expect to have this.
Vendors today sell flat laptops with 8GB Ram and the performance of 10 year old PCs and PCs without even a real graphics
card for the full price, which is the real scam happening.
Im curious to know if its even possible to rewrite minecrafts code to take advantage of multi-threading while preserving mod compatability. What I mean to ask is if the modding community would be able to readily develop for such a monumentous shift to the games base code. Surely such a shift would take a substantially longer time to develop mods for. This is coming from someone with (very) limited knowledge on the subject but im just curious to hear your thoughts.
Apparently I got lucky buying my gaming LAPTOP that runs Minecraft fine FROM A USB DRIVE, because this was all news to me!
I remember playing on a server that had an anti-xray plugin, and one of the blocks it would scramble the world in places you weren't looking was air. The problem is, blocks that are exposed to air are never culled, so the server plugin would cut your FPS in half.
That's some janky plug-in that a highschooler probably made, I wouldn't blame Mojang for that.
@@pyroparagon8945 It's also not the plugin's fault that Mojang's mesh culling algorithm is lazy.
Creator of plugin could use stone or other cave block instead of air. Also there're not so many ways to make voxel mesh culling/
I've seen something this too... Except instead of air it replaced stone blocks with a bunch of random ores, which lagged alot, it was on 1.7.10 if I'm not mistaken
@@wykner well, I found plugin that just hides packets of ore generation from players. But I'm not sure how actually effective it is.
FINALLY. I've been saying this since 1.16 that MC desperately needs an update dedicated to performance. 1.13 dropped the performance pretty hard but that's to be expected with how deceptively massive that update is. 1.14 -1.15 are about the same performance wise. 1.16 was a similarly massive update like 1.13 and this is where I found the performance started to get really noticeable. Of course everyone was shouting "cAvE uPdAtE" so that's what we got for 1.17. Now 1.19 is here and the performance is _horrible_ .
All of the weight these past updates have had are snowballing and Mojang doesn't seem to notice or care. I was hoping that 1.20 would be the "Optimization Update" which would have been perfect for a clean slate to build the future 1.2X versions on.
I'm no programmer but it can't be that hard for Mojang to optimize the game when the community does it for free via mods. The difference between Fabric 1.19 with performance mods and Vanilla 1.19 is *insane* .
The thing is, I have no doubt Mojang could do better than the modders, they just...don't. Is it because it isn't as marketable or flashy of an update? I think that's likely. But wouldn't it be better buisiness-wise if the game was more accessible to more people?...
That was what 1.15 was. They needed to do it because the nether update was so beefy or else it wouldve been worse
@@masterdeetectiv9520Village&Pillage Update*
@@masterdeetectiv9520 That's correct, 1.15 was a sort of "filler" update for MC that only added a few new gameplay features and was mostly focused on things behind the scenes. I remember server performance being a problem they mentioned they would improve.
I have no idea how effective that was for servers but 1.15 barely if at all increases the performance of the game overall. I honestly don't think they did much more optimization to the game than they normally do in each update, which would explain why 1.15 ultimately didn't solve the performance issues at large.
I think you're right that 1.15 did help 1.16 (and future versions) not completely shit the bed in performance. The problem I have with 1.15 is that it simply wasn't enough, and I don't believe they were invested in fixing the performance as much as they should have been for that update.
Sorry for the long reply, I didn't elaborate on 1.15 in my original comment and I felt it was important to consider.
The code probably needs to be rewritten, kinda like with bedrock. But that might cause more problems such as mods and plugins not working properly.
yes, an update with a name to attract people, but there is nothing stopping mojang from optimizing the game, they can just make a normal update with some fancy name and in the background work on performance, the update doesn't needs a name like "performance update"
While Minecrafts code is extremely unoptimized, its still very hard to run and calculate everything. Just because the game is made up of blocks with 16x16 textures its far more complex under the surface. There are some videos that explain this in detail
Yes, but more cores would still be great,because it would calculate faster
@@julesverne4561 It's actually extremely difficult to multithread something like minecraft. Since when you are multithreading you cannot guarantee the order things happen you could very well break every redstone contraption if not done well. The techniques to make sure things do not break cost performance and might make it actually slower when multithreaded. (This is ofc very simplified, there are definitely parts that can be multithreaded but it's really not as simple as "just make it run on multiple cores")
@@glugt9240ou can change chunk generating to a) generate different chunks on different threads and b) split chunks into vertical slices to all be run in parallel. You can move entity calculations to a new thread. There are options for multi threading. They don’t all need to be doing the same thing, and don’t have to be done in a particular order
@@glugt9240 it seems your familiar with this. Would it be possible to make everything run on multi cores except redstone and maybe some other stuff?
The issue is there are mods that speed up the game without removing anything.
The only thing that still kind of draws me back to older versions of the game is the fact that true single player feels so butter smooth compared to hosting a local server every time you load a world offline.
Uh the game always uses an internal server? It's only before the introduction of multiplayer that it didn't and i don't even remember what version that was but it definitely isn't recent
@@ZedDevStuff the integrated server was introduced in 1.3 for the Open to LAN feature
@@meta___ How old is that exactly ? I think i joined around 1.6.4
@@ZedDevStuff July 26 2012
quaza we miss you plz come back!!!1
What I learned from this video: small and independent code/game/mod developers are somehow always one step ahead of multi-milion dollar companies.
Yup they see it as a waste of company resources to train someone to optimize code. In fact modern mentality is to reduce dev Teams to the lowest number possible.
Small developers/modders are passionate about the games they work on, big (public) companies are only passionate about maximizing their earnings.
don't forgett that the quality that mojang/microsoft has to release is way higher than a mod. If there where any major bugs that would create a huge backlash. The number of people using the mods is way smaller compared to the people regularly playing minecraft, so the amount of people influenced by a bug will be far greater.
Best thing that can happen is, they hire the mod author to help their team improve major bottlenecks.
Also, not sure wich mod it is, seems to change chunk updates in a way that sand/gravel does not fall like one expects it to (only a small chunk of the gravel/sand drops) the rest stays.
@@TheHanutaXD Oh yes, the legendary Mojang quality that made the game almost two times slower. Truly, the bar of quality is high.
@@youngarchivist Quality of code is not related to performance. I would even argue that high quality java code runs slower. The game did not get slower because they changed anything in the existing performance critical code, they just added more worldgeneration and features that slow down tick calculation.
As the developer of sodium said
“performance doesn’t sell. source: my bank account”
It’s the unfortunate but true fact that will probably prevent Microsoft from ever making a performance update to anything.
not really dude i get that ur trying to be cool with ur quotes and jabs at microsoft but making ur game more accessible and playable is obviously going to increase the amount of people who can actually run your other flashy updates
Its not even give better performance. There are still stutter a lot. So dunmo why lot of ppl think sodium is good.
@@siduxjxhdgzhdjxhxuuxxyhgg1079 they only would need to do that with bedrock, not Java. They’ll leave java to the modding community to optimize
@@Vagen1 what? even if it's still not as good as bedrock edition, the performance increase is astounding.
there was once a modpack that my PC ran at 1-2 fps, installed rubidium (a sodium port for forge) and instantly got to 50-60 fps with no spikes
@@siduxjxhdgzhdjxhxuuxxyhgg1079 I'd guess Microsoft would push Minecraft Bedrock Edition even harder on PC if that was the case.
Still most MC players come from the mobile port (Bedrock) that easily runs on most smartphones already.
What Mojang fails to realize is that yes, while having an "optimization" update doesn't really "sell" in the eyes of the casual market who are unfamiliar with the technical side, a LARGE portion of their players will be absolutely ecstatic for it, despite it not adding anything fancy and new to the game. Just the performance increase alone would make it feel like a game worth playing again in the eyes of many, not to mention Minecraft is going to absolutely have a problem going forward if they _don't_ focus on some sort of performance update soon.
Or, not to get my tinfoil hat on, it could maybe just be their plan for eventually phasing the Java edition of Minecraft out. They've already normalized its segregation from the "Bedrock" edition, and the writing is on the wall that the Java edition isn't going to be around forever. This could very well be why they haven't focused on any optimization for it, they're just trying to get their mileage out of it before throwing it to the way side. I hope it isn't true, but their actions with it leave much to be desired.
I'm so glad for all of the amazing performance enhancing mods that make playing the game possible, I just hope that a lot of optifine's remaining features can be fully ported to fabric so using the best performance mods is always possible.
Actually, much of it already has!
@@sHooIT I'm talking about the stuff that hasn't
Most of it it is on fabric but for some goddamn reason none of those have Forge mods despite Rubidium, Oculus and other perf mods ports existing and working well
@@ZedDevStuff cuz fabric is faster
@@satanhoainterlocucaodoaman7412 Yet most of the big mods are Forge only
Holy shit somebody finally knows the real problem
Also, if they make a "performance update" people will complain for the lack of content, I saw it when 1.15 released. The fact its stupid people who do so doesnt mean they wont
Solution:
Step 1- Make some shitty content update that only really introduces like ten new items, four new blocks, and one new mob/creature.
Step 2- Intentionally make the update even laggier than ever before seen in the history of the entire planet.
Step 3- Release a performance 'hotfix' that is really just the 'Performance Update' 40% of the player base wanted an hour later.
ALTERNATE SOLUTION (GONE WRONG):
INCLUDE THE PERFORMANCE UPDATE IN THE FORBIDDEN 'S3X UPATE' THAT MOJANG IS TOO SCARED TO RELEASE SO THAT THE HORNY PLAYERS CAN VIEW THEIR DEGENERACY AT THE HIGHEST GRAPHICS SETTINGS AT A SMOOTH 144FPS AND ABOVE.
@@willvan7685 Are you perhaps the one of the horny players
@@willvan7685mojang, hire this man
@@willvan7685 add catboys to Minecraft UwU nya :3
People complain it not because of the lack of content, its because they don't see this as a major update. The 1.15 update's marketing is all about one addition, the "buzzy bees", and of course the community did not like it. They should've make it more transparent, and clarify why this is a "major update", because this update majorly improves the performances and a lot of bugfixes.
I'm so glad you talked about frametime / tps, even at high framerates Minecraft sometimes feels hitchy and weird.
I actually love how you list where you got each meme clip.
something that no one does but I greatly respect it when someone like you does.
This is why I don't play 1.18+. The bigger world height should have been OPTIONAL from the start. Not everyone has an expensive computer.
My theory is that because mods like sodium and optifine already exist there is less urgency for mojang to do anything.
In their minds we players arent facing that many problems, since we use performance boosting mods anyways
If these mods didnt exist then they would most likely focus a majority of their resources on optimisation since it would be more urgent
But since these mods are a band aid solution to the optimisation issue they feel they can keep it for later
as great as those mods are, they're far more limited in what they can do than Mojang. theye can't rewrite the source code or anything. So if Mojang really wanted they could improve the performance of their game a LOT.
That has been the status quo for mojang for quite a while. I remember reading people's complaints about mojang's approach to the modding community in minecraft forums all the way back in 2013. (people were complaining about the lack of an official modding api back then)
@@Ruthro they can, ever heard of mixins? You can use its API to add/delete/patch bytecode instructions basically anywhere in minecraft
@@drencor7402 little hard for me to imagine people complaining about a lack of a modding api (at least for Java) these days Forge and Fabric are both excellent already available options that the vast majority of mods are designed for now that Mojang need not bother. I would appreciate some official modding API for Bedrock though imagine being able to mod your PlayStation Minecraft that isn't just a shoddy behavior pack linked to just one single map you can't earn achievements on.
@@mwperk02 Consoles are _very_ locked down. No console manufacturer would ever allow any kind of significantly game changing mods. I'm surprised they even allow command blocks, let alone behavior packs.
Huge respect for repeating this test with all versions and presenting the results in a very understandable way. I remember playing the Minecraft beta and early release versions on very crappy single core hardware back in the day and even there the performance decreased with every update to a point where it became unplayable. I can confirm your results from 1.12 to 1.19 are very much in line with my experience on i7 3770 and RX580 but at least it's still playable. Additionally the game has become completely unplayable on older laptops with dual core CPUs.
I think there is a minor mistake in the score at 5:59 but the graph looks alright and the correct score can be googled easily.
Thank you :) ! Yes you are right the scale difference in the graph is correct but I made a mistake in the text.
the 1.17 update literally added unplayable lag to the Java edition and i hate mojang for it.
Thank you so much for putting your music links in the description. I REALLY wish youtubers would do this more. Great video btw, very well put together! ✨✨
Thank you and no problem :) !
i do think it is important to recognize the massive performance increases that have happened invisibly, playing on 1.18 terrain in 1.17 (which was possible) it was horribly slow. the ability to play with the increased world height at about the same fps is a near miracle.
(also the same world test may have been not quite perfect due to the automatic world height increasing when upgrading from 1.17->1.18, i do believe it would be possible to repeat the test and avoid that added underground terrain, however im not sure how it would be done)
Thank you for your comment, prior to starting the tests I waited about 5 minutes for world to stop converting (while I was inside the world), so that there were as little lag spikes as possible when I started the test. I know its not a perfect way to measure, but I tried to give each version as much of simmilar conditions as possible. And in fact I believe that even if you would average a few gameplays across different worlds and versions you could get something similar in terms of decreased performance.
It's just Microsoft being Microsoft as per-usual. They are infamously terrible at performance optimization, Windows performs like garbage and it gets worse with every release due to legacy baggage they refuse to fix, Microsoft Office products eat up memory, powershell has severe lag when starting up, the Windows file explorer even today lags severely on image albums. It's just bad programming, there's no other excuse for it
@@s1nistr433 microsoft isnt the one doing the programming here its Mojang
Microsoft just funds them, the work being done is entirely by Mojang
If only Mojang was interested in cubic chunks.
@@s1nistr433 This isn't microsoft
I've been playing minecraft since 1.6.4 and you're definitely correct. The performance has gotten pretty bad to the point that I pretty much never play pure vanilla anymore. I always have a bunch of mods to fix all sorts of performance issues and bugs that Mojang haven't fixed. Nowadays that modlist has increased to almost a hundred mods when it started off as only Optifine. The last time I attempted to play pure vanilla was in 1.16.4 just to test what performance was like without Optifine but the lag spikes and the loading times weren't worth it so I gave up. I don't even touch a new version of minecraft until I'm sure that the performance mods I used are updated to a stable point and then I'll give the new update a go.
@@Prettyflower1998 sodiumm
Bro, at that point it sounds like a you problem. 100 mods? And you expect mojang to fix all of that?
The first time I noticed performance drops was around 1.6.4. (I think it was 1.6.4) I don't know if it was just my laptop at the time but I had a feeling that ever since the FPS has just gotten worse. This video seems to indicate that my intuition was right.
@@Dr_Mundo Well, it's microsoft. And we are talking about One of the most selled games. Money wouldn't, and shouldn't be a problem
And if you think it's a lot, try looking at dolphin versions. In 6 years they realeased about 20000 changes. And it's a free software. It's not necesseraly big changes, but as these mods are. I'm not even sure if having that much mods actually help performance, with some tweaks that overlaps or just charging the mods.
And also, the mods already exist. It's not that hard to merge two codes. It take times, but much less than making it from scratch. Valve understood it, but microsoft don't seem to rely as much on the community
@@serzaknightcore5208 Money isn't the problem, Java is. Doesn't matter what they do, the game will always run terribly if they keep adding more content. They need to roll back the Java version to an older one and retire it. This is of course exactly what Microsoft wants so they can sell you DLC.
Okay, I knew I wasn't going crazy! I was so confused and frustrated when I got back into minecraft and realized how awful it run on my computer. Every other game worked just fine and I spent ages scratching my head wondering if it was just me experiencing this since I didn't see anyone else talking about it.
Luckily you can still play old versions and many people do - new Minecraft is like a completely different game.
Imagine how incredibly fast Minecraft would be if Minecraft devs weren't lazy and added multi-core support
One of the things I want to experience in Minecraft one day, is being able to fly at max speed with Elytra without being limited by the chunk loading.
Wow, great video and amazing editing! I've never thought about this too much, since I never seemed to suffer from lag in Minecraft. I did often wondered why tech servers didn't make the leap to newer versions. Now this makes it quite clear. Minecraft was a game made in a couple of weeks by a guy in a basement. I do believe that in order to fix some of its fundamental programming issues, it should be rewritten from scratch. The thing is, it's not that hard! I'm surprised Mojand hasn't been working on an actual rewrite of the game since they became a real company! May be one day they will surprise us with it (they have rewritten parts of the game, possible because the code was just to amateurish to maintain) but a complete rewrite is still something that hasn't happened! Quick datum: Firefox completely rewrote its entire code around version 4 if I'm not mistaken, to introduce multithreading for tabs!
Interesting information, thank you for bringing this up ! And I agree that now that they have evolved into a proper company it woudn't be that hard for them to realise something like this. Another benefit would be that the game could be played on almost all devices (even ones like mine, where the game currently lags), which would make it more acessable to even wider audience.
I never actually suffered from lag in Minecraft. I always use performance mods and when my game lags, it is just time to reboot my computer. (Idk why, it just works)
I use Arch, btw
They already did a complete code rewrite, it's called bedrock edition and it sucks. But performance is much better.
That already happened with Bedrock which is written in C++. Issue is that it's got even worse bugs compared to Java.
Well, I can give you the answer to your question. Minecraft is no longer owned by "a guy from the basement" - it is now owned by a business. And the only goal of any business is to make money. Lets see now how Minecraft earns money. It is the bedrock marketplace! As TheMisterEpic revealed in his video, Microsoft takes around 70% of revenue from the market and only gives to creators the rest 30%. Java edition doesn't have a marketplace and will never have because of the success of mod support. Therefore, there is no point of making "Java Edition 2", as it would only decrease revenues for Microsoft. Which means, well, they'll never do it, unless there is a serious reason to do so. As one such reason I see Hytale. As Minecraft gets worse every day, other companies continue to improve. It Hytale turns out to be any good and gives Minecraft a fight, Microsoft will simply be forced to do something or they would lose the whole market. But until anything like this happens, we're stuck with a laggy mess, as nothing can force them to improve the situation
while, yes, i absolutely LOVE the new changes minecraft has gotten gameplay-wise, i really think it's time for a performance update. the game really shouldn't be loading in textures hundreds of blocks below you, especially with all of the new textured content. deep dark update? one of my favorite updates to a game in recent memory. should it require rendering in hundreds of sensors with their own animation every time someone walks over a city? idk about everyone else, but i like my laptop like i like my houses, not burnt to the ground
In this day and age we don't ask "But can it run Crysis?" anymore, we ask "But can it run Minecraft in fabulous settings?"
As someone who spent the better part of a decade making Minecraft servers. PaperMC is the only reason we still have playable (vanilla) multiplayer nowadays.
aside from the fact it breaks uncountable machanics and makes remotely advanced redstone impossible, yes
caffeineMC offers even better performance nowadays without those massive drawbacks
ok I'm probably biased as I'm a technical player but to me paper is basically unplayable
@@Ruthro Paper also ruins and destroys datapack mechanics too. Paper achieves it's performance by stripping the game of tons of mechanics and base functionality. It works but only for vanilla survival or highly custom servers with extensive plugin work.
@@jaredschneider9662 I think it depends a lot on the settings. which if anything is even worse because every server is different thus it's hard to make something specifically for paper servers
we need a performance update!
Anyone remember when the switch ran the game smooth as butter until the recent updates killed performance?
Good times
I started on 1.16 and had no lag whatsoever. Starting at 1.17 is when I began experiencing various lag intensities unless I was underground.
I picked up Minecraft again sometime last year out of boredom and was surprised to notice just how many issues I had with performance. The last time I played (I believe in 2020) I was able to run shaders on servers that had farms without any significant frame drops but now i was struggling to play on an SMP server without lagging everytime I moved. I originally chalked it up to my laptop deteriorating but I’m glad to see it isn’t solely the case. I hope mojang implements some fixes soon tho
Still think Microsoft is entirely behind this. There is no way such a large company can do this bad for such a profitable game, that modders who often aren't paid can do way better. They keep it bad so people buy more expensive PCs which have parts made by them and windows operating system (to take people from Mac OS) which they profit from enormously. Due to the lack of competition Microsoft can keep the game bad and people will still pay for it. Also they lowered at bedrock launch especially fps for switch and playstation 4 to get people to buy Xbox and PC, I don't believe for one second bedrocks launch on playstation wasn't planned to be an fps disaster on splitscreen for both. Thank goodness they have been banned from buying Activision Blizzard, horrible company.
@@tortoisewarrior4855 Microsoft doesn't really make any hardware tho? At least the hardware they make (with the exception of Xbox) isn't capable of gaming, plus Java edition is mostly the responsibility of the original Mojang studio. The Microsoft division of it is only working on Bedrock
@@ZedDevStuff After looking at what Microsoft owns they don't own a whole lot of parts from other PC companies, and they obviously don't gain many players at from them buying their PCs. But they still make an enormous amount from the Windows operating system, which they make money from through various different methods.
The Java edition of the game isn't directly controlled by them but they can definitely fix priorities and give them less money to fix certain issues.
But yes after I did more research it doesn't look like they would profit enormously, which shows incompetence being part of the issue if true.
I can recall when 1.13 was first in development Update Aquatic was supposed to be implemented in 1.14, but before this they were meant to fix specifically technical issues in 1.13 (even calling it something like "The Technical Update") but at some point they merged the two updates together which must have destroyed performence because they had now cut the extra time they'd planned to work on a technical upgrade first.
it is a real shame the performance has been tanking so hard for vanilla players though. the ability to properly swim has remained one of my favorite additions to the game. I do recall there being an old smart movements mod which added features like swimming and crawling that we have now but also stuff like climbing up 2 high blocks (and I think 3 high if you jumped) it added a whole little stamina meter and everything.
It was called Technically Updated, which is a pun playing on the fact that because it's a technical update, it would appear to only technically be updated.
The problem is Microsoft
Much performance required = buy a new pc = money for microsoft
As good as its sounds, multithreading a very complex game like minecraft is a very hard task. Sure you can optimize the diffrent kind of logic such as rendering, game ticks, and network packet receiving on a separate thread, but optimizing one game tick into multiple threads is a bit dangerous and tricky since everything from physics, mobs logic, or just the world logic in general needs to be executed by order. Even though you eventually managed to make it multithreading, it will be hard to add a feature in the future updates. But yeah, i think a multi billion dollar budget game with the smartest people working on it, it's a bit possible to achieve that.
Moving has improved performance, the improvements are limited to bedrock
Personally I think they should just make the next update 'The Performance Update'
I love the new features in Minecraft, but I really shouldn't have to mod the game just to get better performance. Also, I usually use C2ME which spreads chunk loading across multiple cores, so that'd be an interesting test to see!
They just released a lighting engine update that is massively improves performance! It's in line with the benefits of the mod *Starlight*
I hope one day Minecraft does full 3D chunk generation and LODs. Infinite build height and very far render distances would be nice.
like cubic chunks + distant horizons?
@@Ceereeal yup!
@@AJ213Probably yeah that would be awesome, honestly not sure why they haven’t tried to implement it yet, at least LODs cause distant horizons already runs pretty good
Infinite build height is probably impossible to implement because it would mean a chunk would have to have a height of infinity. Each block takes up a certain amount of space in the computer's memory and a chunk is completely filled with blocks. Even air probably takes up some memory, if you want infinite build height, you would litteraly need infinite storage and RAM on your pc. Basically, in a world where minecraft has infinite build height, your PC would die after trying to load 1 chunk
@@maxave7448 I've programmed it lol. It's just vertical chunks it's super easy in a new Minecraft project
I've noticed a major performance drop too. 1.17 and before, I never noticed my fans going crazy, but after about 1.18 or 1.19 my computer's fans would always get super loud while playing and I'd notice a buuuuuunch more lag
which version do you feel less lag before......1.16?
@@CraftingTable3076 I'd say yes, it began in 1.16. I still often play huge 1.12 modpacks and dont really have many perfomance problems, but i cant play 1 19 even with like 40-50 mods without huge fps drops.
Who needs shaders when you can play the vanilla game, completely unmodded, and have mojang's sluggish ass code burn your pc!
Mine only go crazy when i launch the game and start generating a world tho they calm down after
@@ViciousVinnyD that moment when installing shaders makes the game run faster
I made strong researchs on why this new versions of Minecraft lag. In fact this is due to the size of the chunks, since they doubled the height of each of them the cpu needs more time to load them, exactly twice more. It means any player with 100fps immediatly has 50 now. Then they added more types of blocks, this require more cpu usage too. Then the big problem is the giant caves, when you generate new chunk the underground lava appears too, and the game generate them by step, every lava waterfall must "fall" the first time you generate it, and this cause massive lag. Water does the same and when it genereates it breaks blocks in the process (rails, plants, etc), all these items are floating and moving with this water on each new chunk... I checked it with a tool, for each part of the world you load with a render distance of 8 it generates 80 to 500 items that needs 5 minutes to vanish. That's why we have lag spikes. The idea is to generate the world and wait until these items disappear but you have to keep them visible to make them vanish, so without tools to erase these useless item you'll need time to walk in your world until they are all gone. It's broken. Sodium is good because it can "deload" these item from a certain distance, but sometimes they'll still appear and being render, causing lag spikes. The only way I've found is to play on servers that run on super computers, to let this process running and reduce the distance of render to 2 chunks only. I had 150fps before these update, now I struggle to get more than 40 with all tricks possible, without these mods I would be stuck to 5 or 6 fps. So yeah, minecraft is dying because of that. I suggest to set the render distance to minimum and use Distant Horizon to keep "fake chunks" loaded in memory for a few ram usage. The fact Mojang is adding new mobs is dangerous because these mods (like bees) cause lag. You can also use tools to generate a world without caves. The new minecraft launcher is also a problem, I need 5 minutes to launch the game while it should take a few seconds. This is due to the RAM usage, for some reason it seems the game check every file at start, it'll load every mob and texture everytime instead of doing it while we play. This mean you suddently need at least 4gb RAM to play it while 1.5gb was enough before. For devices with only 8gb playing this game is now tricky, not impossible but it requires knowledge of mods and customizations, meaning any kid trying the game today could give up due to bad performances. It's a big problem to keep the game alive.
I've notice this, minecraft used to be a game for the low end computers, now you really need a huge processor to simply keep up with the game, its getting closer to mid-high end pcs, and thats not good for a popular children game, it needs to run in low end pcs to be as popular as ever, that was the best feature it had and is losing it
Minecraft could be incredibly low-performance if they worked to improve it. If Mojang needed to, they could probably get in contact with some of the modders to get this kind of improvement into vanilla-minecraft. They got the horses from the Mo' Creatures mod too, so why not? I also only recently heard about a mod that lets you render basically the entire map of minecraft, border to border with minimal to no drops in performance. Imagine the things we could have if all of these things worked together... but for now we can only dream.
I think i should add: Obviously modding minecraft isn't hard, so I understand why improving performance isn't a high priority if we can just simply mod it. But it still sometimes is a pain to wait for the mods to update, or not being able to play with performance-improving mods in snapshots... I think it would still be a huge plus for them to improve vanilla mc like that.
Yeah, I think at this point they should have a smaller sub team solely dedicated to performance each update, and my choice is the modders making these mods. Also, it lacks some pretty notable optimization in general like rendering only what the camera is pointed at.
@@QwixLF Yup! That's a good idea. The modders, if they can and do choose to work with Mojang, would be great :) Or obviously they should otherwise be compensated and credited for it if Mojang were to use their mods as a basis for improving performance. And yeah, true, it really doesn't need to render whats behind the camera lol... it could probably render twice as much in front of the camera if that got improved too xD
Distant Horizons
But then they would actually need to do something!!
@@QwixLF there is really no reason to make it a subteam the code needs to be done and tested first to be than optimized, it cannot be done in parallel soo just put these prorammers in to the main theme and designate them as optimization programmers
as someone who has a computer from 2013: i need performance mods, i reccomend:
Sodium (increases overall fps), would recomend Sodium Extra and Reese's options, if you want to customize your settings more.
LazyDFU (12 lines of code that make minecraft load like 13 times faster)
FerriteCore (less memory usage)
Lithium (server ticks, i think)
Krypton (server ticks/updates)
Distant Horizons (adds LODS)
Starlight (lightsources? ig)
Entity Culling (culls entities)
DynamicFPS (fps is more consistent, but is dynamic in a way)
Clumps (all xp orbs get together to form one huge one)
CullLessLeaves (not as detailed as normal leaves, but they arent see through llike full-on cullleaves)
Debugify (fixes bugs from the minecraft bug report platform)
Ahhhhh a fellow cultured crafter. Literally the exact same mods in my performance mod pack. I can also recommend:
Fastopenlinks (keeps your game responsive while opening screenshots and such from in game)
Iris (shaders that dont destroy your fps)
Logicalzoom (For the funnsies. It's a programable zoom key like optifine)
Oh yeah, and starlight is about lightsources. It's a complete rewrite of the lighting engine.
Cheers mate 🍻
ferritecore literally halved my RAM usage from ~4 GB to 1.8 GB running 150 mods on 1.18
Minecraft 1.21 be the performance update.. have a petition on that..
Quick tip, you can disable hyperthreading in your computers bios to get better single threaded performance, it wil hurt performance in other applications a bit, but it helps with minecraft java edition
It legitimately feels like the new versions are like a modpack you can't disable.
You can disable them by playing on an older version
@@hexagonist23 or buy installing sodium so the game actually runs at a normal framerate without freezing every second
@@hexagonist23 Bedrock users can't, like me.
@@RicardoHernandez-sw8zj Bedrock runs alot better tho. I cant get like 30 chunk render distance on that, meanwhile I barely get 12 on java
@@resyntax the language isn’t the issue
I remember when I would load up Minecraft and it took 5 seconds. Now it takes 5 minutes. And I’m not exaggerating!
I think I remember it taking like.. 12 seconds? And now every time I have to wait like atleast 3 minutes.
for me it takes 10 seconds only because i use a TON of mods (like sodium, exordium, dashloader and so on, i have almost every single actual working performance mod lmao)
@@dxcvvxd What? Then how come i almost instantly load the world with my cheap laptop bruh
@@lilypad429 im on latest version and i have linux with open source java which is faster than the one thats on windows and thats honestly weird that youre insta loading lol
SSD issue
This is why performance mods such as rubidium, optifine or flywheel are a must for me.
what
@@stickmouse5002 This is why performance mods such as rubidium, optifine or flywheel are a must for him.
@@UnknownPikmin precisely
Honestly my biggest problem with the newer Minecraft updates is that they add so many borderline useless features that just feel like padding while not improving on flaws in the existing game like the performance and combat.
minecraft 1.18 world gen changes were a mistake, there has been a solution to this around for years, but mojang just kindof ignored it. Its called cubic chunks. It should have been put in the game years ago. Many other games use it and there are even mods. It needs to get added.
It was a good idea but implemented poorly. Terrain generation should have been far more different. I would actually prefer the new caves and old terrain generation
1.13 had a rewrite to the rendering engine. They also made it do chunks needed to be written synchronously instead of asynchronously.
source?
my minecraft literally takes 10 - 15 minutes JUST on loading, it really sucks because when I play the older version of minecraft, it loads in just 30 seconds and thats what I loved about minecraft
I'm sorry, don't want to be that guy, but at 4:43 you said that Caves & Cliffs released November 2020, when in fact it released November 2021, it's only like just over a year old lol
I have to say one thing about your measurements... in the new versions with the newest generator, the world is being smoothed out in the transition from the old generator chunks to the new ones. That means the game has to do three things instead of one (generate a new chunk, modify an old chunk, modify a new chunk)... this also happens downwards, so it lowers the game's performance quite a bit. I'd rather try generating multiple worlds in every version separately and then averaging the results. The first time I opened my survival world, where I deleted all the chunks I explored but don't use I was at 15 FPS for a few minutes.
Don't get me wrong, I agree that new versions have a bad performance, but you made it look even worse with the way you collected data.
Hello thank you for your comment, yes you are right that this had some impact (which I didnt think of when making the video), before the measurements I waited around 5 minutes for all the major lagspikes to settle so that it would be more fair. And since someone pointed the same thing out a couple of days ago I also repeated the 1.19 test. The problematic part is that I cant generate the same world from seed in each version that I tested, since world generation changed so many times, so I just created a new world from same seed in version 1.19 and redid a few tests:
The average FPS went from 56 in 1.19 with world that was generated in 1.7 to 72 with a world generated purely in 1.19.
The FPS lows went from my original 5 to 17.
So it is indeed better, but that still doesn’t change the fact that the decrease in performance is still there. From 1.7 to 1.19 (avg fps 172 to 72), fps lows (from 144 to 17).
I went on to play some Mods on 1.12 and it honestly shocked me how much the performance differs from recent versions. 1.12 with Mods and just Optifine somehow runs two to three times better than 1.19 with all the usual performance enhancing mods.
As someone who host server minecraft since 2013 until now, I can confirm this:
I can run 1.6.4 Faction server (1-2GB) with 100 players (Intel Dual-Core CPU), and it use HDD.
Now, running 6GB with massive optimization (Intel Xeon Processor) that runs tps 9-18 fluctuated at 10 players.
The massive problem is the Chunk load, and how many server had to Force people to Preload Chunks first before making server, otherwise, loading a Piece of Chunk can take up to 5-10 seconds on low-budget hoster (Xeon 3.5ghz for example), and I think best example should be 1.19 because its unbelievably unoptimized.
And yes, I just don't understand why Minecraft never took advantage on Multi-threaded system, now its already 2023 😔
I'm so glad to see that I was not going nuts and that modern versions of Minecraft are indeed a lot more demanding/poorly optimized.
You are explaining a lot of technical details in the video, and I want to add more.
I am software developer and also i am writing Minecraft mods.
People may think x cores can do x times more amount of work than single core. It is true only in case if these threads don't need any synchronization. As soon as you need to sychronize workload benefit of additional cores decreases. And from the other side complexity of your code also rises. And rare occasional bugs, which is hard to debug and can happen only on specific CPU is nightmare.
Yeah, it is pretty hard to add proper multithreading support to Minecraft. If it would be easy task simeone could already create mod or server plugin. But as you stated in video this requires complete rewrite of server code.
Adding on to this, some third party server softwares do separate some of the game's logic into multiple cores, but only for things like chat or networking. There is a fork of Paper (Spigot fork) called Akarin which is striving to create a fully multi-threaded minecraft server software, but right now its most stable version is 1.12.2.
@@doinkstr adding onto this its literally not hard to make a multi threaded spigot me and my friends have done it many times it just requires having a brain but also it would also not need a complete game re write to implement multi threading if you download mcp you will see this isnt true just needs people with brains
@@zipforbdon lol bro, you're kidding, right? Are you even a programmer?
I remember I had a shitty guest computer in my home when I was a kid. I would bring friends home and we could play minecraft together. I would not dream of trying to run minecraft on a computer like that today.
I used the same computer to run my server, and as updates came along it became practically unable to generate chunks. Any time someone went to a new area in the world it made the ticks chug like crazy for the entire server. We had to announce to each other if we wanted to go exploring so it wouldn't mess with anyone else.
used to be 4.7 MB on my dad’s work computer.
now it’s 2.7 GB on my computer.
Im glad you made a video about this. Like am i insane for not wanting to drop thousands on a gaming pc just to play a block game?? It should be able to run on a 2019 laptop perfectly fine
I used to have a PC that was just an Intel i5-8500 with integrated graphics, 8GB RAM and a simple 128GB SSD. I had that for about 4 years, and Minecraft was one of the main games I played since about 2011. I had a solid 70-90fps average around 2016-2017 on that thing, but around 2019 I saw my FPS was averaging about 30-40, I had cleaned out my PC and done a refresh, but nothing changed. I adjusted settings, nothing. I eventually did get the PC I have now with an i5-12400F and a RTX 3060 TI, which I now have about 300FPS+ on average, but I’m still noticing spikes down to like 50FPS when doing certain things. It isn’t regular, it happens probably every 1-2 hours, but still, a PC with those specs shouldn’t even experience THAT kinda lag running MINECRAFT. It’s just weird at this point.
One funny thing is also that the F3 menu CAUSES LAGS nowadays 😂
Because it’s tracking every element loaded into the world like obviously it will cause lag
5:12 it's Moore's law. Not More's law.
This is the egregious problem when it comes to loading heavy number of of mods
Yep, somehow 1.16 with hundrets of mods has less lag than 1.19 vanilla.
Glad he didn’t mention bedrock on console. On most consoles that game’s performance is in fucking shambles.
Honestly the only reason why I never play minecraft Java is because when loading a map the performance takes forever to get to a reasonable level in game, plus grass and other stuff lag out my game to an insane degree especially on high render distance.
Bedrock is better in this regard, as I can basically play it at max settings and my pc runs it perfectly well and quietly.
as someone who has an 8yo laptop (roughly), ive defineatly noticed the drop in performance. Nowdays i absolutely rely on mods to play the game - and even then i cant play singleplayer and have to utilise services like aternos to run a server for myself (i cant afford to pay for one).
I feel as if there’s an oversight that the creator didn’t address.
A world generated by older versions is going to have problems with newer world generation coding.
For example world height changed.
I’m going to make up some numbers to show the differences as I don’t remember the exact numbers off the top of my head.
Let’s say the world height was 100 blocks, with diamonds and redstone spawning at Y12, Iron spawning from Y14 to Y30, and hills/mountains can have a max height of Y50.
Now comes a new version that changed this to a world height of 175, Diamonds can spawn below Y12, Redstone below Y15, iron from Y13 to Y35, Coal from Y5 to Y65, and a new resource Copper at Y25 to Y50, and then Mountains have a max height of Y90.
THEN ANOTHER new version comes along. Max height 300, and the various ores now come in a new type, you add a new rock type (Deepslate), and change all these spawning rules again.
Here’s the problem, those world generating conflict with each other, causing an overlap in the coding and causes it to drastically slow down as it has to fill in these new spawning rules in any gaps.
For instance bedrock in the over world got pushed down to make room for a Deepslate layer.
Meaning importing a WORLD from 1.7 to 1.19 is going to cause a LOT of issues as it was generated with older generating code.
This simply doesn’t work well.
====
Ok, so what’s the point?
Well I want to emphasize the issue of bringing a specific WORLD from an older version to a newer version.
While also pointing out that developers are aware of this.
This is why if you check the world SEED in multiple versions you will see that the seed is NOT the same across versions.
Case in point is my current Let’s Play World the Spawn point in 1.17 is in a plains biome; however, in 1.19 that same spawn point/seed is now in, I think, a snowy peaks type biome.
====
This is the failure of the creator to point out that he’s using the same world from an older version in all of the versions instead of showing the same seed.
Of course there’s going to be performance issues.
You are right, importing the same world causes massive lag spikes, thats why I waited around 5 minutes for everything to level out and all the adjustments to be made. Then the lag spikes were almost the same as if I would be playing in world created in the same world.
The other method that I could use would be to average a bunch of different gameplays done in the same version, but that would require a bunch of samples to get a good result
@@LordJon25 That doesn't fix the underlying issue here.
You generated a world in an older version then brought that world forward into later versions that uses different coding for ore, terrain, mob, lighting, etc.
You're "control" with a standard world is flawed here.
Instead you should have used a control seed.
Fair point, so to test that I went back to version 1.19.2 where the original measurement was taken. I took the world seed from previous world where I tested all the other versions and created a brand-new world in 1.19.2's world creation tool (of course world generation has changed at least a few times (since 1.7) so, the biomes were not the same, but I spawned near plains and ocean which is close enough to the original test.
The average FPS went from 56 in 1.19 with world that was generated in 1.7 to 72 with a world generated purely in 1.19.
The FPS lows went from my original 5 to 17.
The problem is still that the worlds simply can’t be the same while generated in different versions because of the world generation changing every few versions and so does the seed's output. In order to truly measure a more accurate situation, you would need to average gameplay of hundreds of players across multiple versions and biomes which I do not have resources to do.
But that still doesn’t change the fact that the decrease in performance is still there. From 1.7 to 1.19 (avg fps 172 to 72), fps lows (from 144 to 17).
The purpose of this video was to give a rough expectation of how the game progressed with versions and since the new results still show a clear downwards trends, I do not intend to remeasure more till I find it necessary.
You missed a very important thing, Minecraft Bedrock makes use of all cores and threads of your CPU, so that's why performance is much much better in bedrock, and even a smartphone processor can sometimes outmatch a PC performance in Java Vs Bedrock
I have worked on Minecraft's code (modding) for multiple versions. In the original notch code, everything was implemented in the most naive way, it wasn't optimized at all. Also it used OpenGL 1.1 for some reason. It uses ancient methods for rendering, which are very slow.
Then they finally did start "optimizing" it around 1.7. But by "optimize" they meant "use all the worst 'best practices' taught in academia". They started going insane with the object-orientation, to the point where even things like coordinates are a class. In C this isn't a problem, but in Java all classes have to be allocated on the heap which is much slower than the stack, and then the garbage collector has to go through all of them.
Also, Java. Java isn't necessarily slow in general, but something like Minecraft really needs control of memory management that Java just doesn't have.
I was waiting for this since you posted the leak, and I agree. My pc struggles on Minecraft which is the bigger reason why I barely play.
Come on guys mojang knows exactly what we want. We all want chat policing, an absolutely useless and ugly mob called a sniffer, and clay pots because that will make the game better. What would we do without the genius insight of the mojang developers?
Do they even play the game? The community polls are so bad and 8 year olds who don’t even know half the games mechanics vote for a glow squid that doesn’t even glow.
@@enolopanr9820 I didn’t participate during the mob vote that time cause I didn’t play cause there was something wrong with my pc
@@enolopanr9820 if I did I wouldn’t have voted for that squid that doesn’t do the only thing it’s useful for
@@enolopanr9820 once I was exploring caves in 1.19 and heard a noise then saw some blue things and thought oh cool the warden cause I never seen it before but it was just this squid
You can use mods to improve the performance of course if your pc is good
If Mojang's recent behavior is anything to go by, there's not much hope that they'll put any effort in to optimizing the game. They're more focused on being diverse and inclusive, and haven't even added anything that actually improved gameplay since the Nether Update. It's all up to the modding community to keep Minecraft great.
Imagine being owners of the most played game in the world with billions in revenue, and still can't be bothered to add multithreading support.
I can run RDR2 on max graphics and keep stability and zero drops in performance, even with mods.
Minecraft not only takes longer to load than RDR2, it is also less stable despite being less graphically intensive and "simple."
It's a shame, Minecraft used to be the only game I COULD play on my old laptop back in 2012; I would not be able to play the same game on that same computer today.
Performance mods are basically a requirement now unless you have fairly modern and powerful computer. I've played Java minecraft since 2014 and I've always used Optifine and as of recently Sodium.
Im so glad you made this video addressing this huge issue. One thing thats been going on is version eternalization, where we create a permanent playerbase under one version. The 1.12 Modding Coalition and Cleanroom have done that.
It is my belief that in the modding scene, devs should be allowed to choose which version they want to make mods in, rather than be pushed to chase the newest version and inevitably slowly bug out your mod each port. Its a slow death tbh.
I hope groups like the Betweenlands, Scape and Run Parasites, and 2B2T can convince players that they dont have to play on the newest version nor do mods have to be on the newest version. Mojang is not going to support modded, so we should do it ourselves in whatever version we want.
Anyways, great video showing the differences between versions. It really shines a light.
Me running a hundred mods: Why is Minecraft so unoptimized?...
i still have a feeling that not too far into the future microsoft / mojang is gonna stop supporting & updating the java version entirely in favor of something like the windows 10 version
Can confirm, 1.17 on my upgrading saga world sucked so badly I think I had 100 crashes from running out of memory. I have 16 gigabytes of RAM, with 3GB of it allocated.
16gb's of ram installed, with only 3gb allocated. My man of course you're crashing constantly, Minecraft at minimum needs 8gb of RAM on latest versions!
Are you for real???
@@ThrustersX I am for real
allocate more ram my guy.
You make some good points. Chunk generation is quite slow, especially for 1.18+ because it is very complex. Effectively there is a "single" density function that needs to be calculated for every single block in a chunk to determine if it starts out as stone, water/lava or air. In reality its a more of a composite of density functions but the basic principal remains, block position goes in, stone/water/lava/air comes out. But ultimately it boils down to a choice of 3 options, get better hardware, lower your render/simulation distance or play bedrock. Could mojang do it better, yes. But if a features update vs a performance update was put to a public vote, I suspect the features would win.
You have a point, main thing that slows everything in 1.19 is loading additional 60+ layers of world o chunk. Now it is like loading two worlds at the same time. I know that there is some room for improvement but not much especially on java. :( Now Bedrock gains his pros :D
me: proccesed to install 600+ mods and wonders why my computer is grinding to a halt
I have a ryzen 7 5800x and a 3080 but the game still struggles when I fly around to even get 100 fps
one thing that you missed are villagers who in version 1.12.2 had far less complicated AI than in version 1.14
also generation of nether in 1.16
also sculk from 1.19
i like how the kids in the curse forge comment section spam modders about "moving from the past" when they themself can't even open newer versions on family laptop without it crashing 90% of the time XDXDXDXD
i love how the cod is flopping around during the lag demo at the start. great video and great editing! i 100% agree with what you say.
1.12.2 is also the version i play the most lol. it has a ton of great modpacks. same with 1.7.10
for example gregtech new horizons a pack with so much more stuff than vanilla that i thought it would be impossible for my computer to even make the world, it has much better fps than 1.19.x vanilla. this is incredibly funny.
Appreciate it! Thank you :) !
greg
@@magorman12 greg
gregorius tech
greg
Behold, the power of Wirth's Law!
"As the transistor count in the CPU/GPU doubles every 18 months due to Moore's law, software efficiency halves every 18 months, compensating Moore's law", or as some put it, "What Intel giveth, Microsoft taketh away".
- - - - -
At all seriously, I cannot express my gratitude with this video. You have done an outstanding job at demonstrating the lag and identifying its possible culprits. Your channel is very much underrated in my humble opinion. Keep it up!
I knew it. They’re getting lazy with everything. No way these games take up 200gb either.
I feel like this is almost a conscious thing that Microsoft is forcing Mojang to do so that Bedrock edition is pushed more than Java, the only reason Bedrock isnt as popular is because lack of certain modding support and different game mechanics, redstone etc. Microsoft wants the Bedrock version to be THE version of Minecraft, just like they stopped updates to old gen console Minecraft versions, at some point Java will stop getting updates while they still support Bedrock.
When my laptop broke 3 years ago and was basically unusable, I got a new gaming laptop out of my budget and finally found time to play the game last week, I was completely shocked that it couldn't run the game on 30 FPS in the latest update; since it could run literally every game out there on high quality settings with usually no issues.
After lots of enhancements and modding, the game runs on sub 60 FPS and infrequent lag with shaders on.
also, me when he said 1.12 came out 6 years ago instead of last month:
0 - 0
I too have observed a decline in performance.
On several low-end i3 laptops over the last ten years, I have never experienced noticeable lag in loading new chunks, within my PCs capabilities. I now have an i5 Surface Pro 4, and my last gameplay session suffered horribly in movement speed and stuttering whilst rendering new chunks in the latest version. I typically keep my render distance minimal, but have had to increase it, balancing the FPS by having chunks load in before I need them.
I hoped this was a short term issue that could be resolved by giving my PC a break, lord knows the Surface Pro 4 has thermo-effciency issues, but this video's findings bring me more concern as the issue appears far from unique.
I hope universal performance is something Mojang is considering, and will find a way to improve.