I wanted to clarify something on the double sided tape tip. Many have pointed out that the xfasten, while bonds strongly, is not stiff enough for cnc/template routing. While I have not had significant issues using the xfasten tape, I have gotten feedback from some folks that purchased the tape recently. I do not know if their formulation changed or what the issue is. The blue tape method is a perfectly fine method - if you like it, don't change a thing. I personally find it cumbersome. Over the last 2 weeks I have been using all of these methods and revisited the paper backed double sided tape and am falling in love with it again, despite the higher price tag. It seems to be the perfect hybrid - holds strongly with little/no deflection. Easy to tear. Comes off without any residue issue. etc etc. So at this time, i would not recommend the xfasten tape, instead, consider buying this (affiliate link): amzn.to/3S5OxjJ
Saw dust is great for soaking up spilled liquids like oil. Then keep the very lightly oil coated saw dust to use to put on the floor to pick up really fine dust and dirt. Broom motion getting the dust airborne an thus not cleaning the floor without the saw dust. Mix dry saw dust with wet oil coated saw dust and mix to get lightly coated saw dust. My dad showed me this hack.
Interesting. I’ve been using A FEW grains of salt when face gluing boards to increase thickness for longer than you have been alive. Never had a failure or could tell the difference in the final result. That said, a FEW GRAINS is all that is necessary. The amount of salt that you used, even on the smallest sample would be enough for many glue ups. I think I’ve had the same 4oz shaker in my shop for 20 years. The technique works great when laminating panels, especially when you need good alignment as to not have to trim too much waste afterwards.
@@ReallyBadJuJu this is the real point with the salt trick. It's not the sodium chloride crystals that do the job it's a fine grain of anything that provides a secondary gripping surface that also digs slightly into the wood.
I wanted to see that as well. I've heard that it works just as well as salt, plus you've got plenty of sawdust nearby anyway. Hopefully we can get a follow up where he tries the amount of salt people actually use and sawdust
7:41 I would like to see the variance in clamp pressure as well. I'm curious if higher clamp pressure with salt (and saw dust) would provide an equivalent joint strength than without.
Interesting! Try fine grain sand instead of salt - less hygroscopic. Sawdust behaves like "end-grain" when finished - always looks darker just like end grain. Keep it up! Subbed.
Nice video. I switched to double side tape because its easier and avoids the glue mess. Never found the salt method to be useful for woodworking but it will keep a beer glass from sticking to a coaster. Cool bonus tip.
I have tried to fill the gaps of a tenon with sawdust and glue. The resulting joint is weak and I easily break it. I’d rather use epoxy resin glue which is good at filling any void.
How could you leave out mentioning glue residue when using dubble sided tape? Especially on porouse surfaces and/or left on for a longer time, it will be a great pain to get rid of. And often enough sanding will not help. You used way to much salt!! A couple of grains is what should be used. The gap in the joint is probably caused by a ”heap” of salt, hindering the gap to close. Your ”cleaning” of the clamps with vinegar, clearly destroyed the surfaces on the clamps and leaving them highly corroded. Also funny that you did not mentioned that vax on the clamps, may be transferred to the work piece and cause future problems when for example staining the surfaces. And the method of using glue and saw dust are not meant to be used on surfaces that are clearly visible and finnished with clear lacquers. And your small dents would very easy to steam out and be totaly invisible. The method with glue and saw dust are useful in hard to reach places and if you save saw dust (from previous) projects you can make good matches. You have to keep in mind that the saw dust is to be considered as endgrain. And that is why it gets darker when stained/oiled/lacquered. So if you treat it accordingly, i.e. shellack, you will get better/good results.
Suman, another AWESOME video! Your channel is the most underrated woodworking resource on You Tube. I love your research methods and the tremendous data and results you share with us. Your stuff is A+ all the way. Thank you, sir! 🫡
Another fantastic video. testing methods are very sound and delivery is right to the point. I've been subscribed for a while and frankly, I'm still amazed your channel doesn't have more subscribers. Keep up the great work, If you build it they will come!
@@WoodcraftBySuman Please do test it. I was about to leave the same suggestion, and it's a technique that my father's father used in a production shop during the Great Depression. I enjoyed this one, Suman.
I am always looking forward to your next video. Accurate, informative, and helpful. Hoping that you will look at saw blade flutter sometime. What makes it happen? Asymetric pressure on the blade? Start up? Entering the wood too fast? What are the principle causes that make zero clearance kerfs get wider? All the best!
Thanks Paul! For sure. I may or may not be working on gathering proper equipment to see how viable that test would be. It may or may not involve an ultra high speed cameras..... you know, hypothetically speaking.
Great video! I actually just came in from the workshop, where I was using the glue and sawdust trick, so your thumbnail triggered me (good job!). Fortunately, I was doing it on rosewood, where it works like a dream.
Never liked the salt in the glue joint or sawdust and glue methods, but how dare you take the blue tape trick from me! 😭 At least you gave me a new double sided tape to try. The stuff I have is terrible! I can never get the backing off!
I appreciate your sawdust and glue tip. In the past I’ve mixed fine sawdust, glue, and Zar’s wood filler with decent results, but I like the glue-alone-then-sanding “slurry” tip. Thank you.
I tried salt in 90 degree miters exactly once, and was horrified at the gaps that resulted. careful alignment while gradually increasing clamping pressure turned out to be much more worthwhile. keep this stuff up! I subscribed from an earlier nerdy dive and will watch any sort of "OK yeah people say it but is it actually true" content.
I'm curious what kind of salt you used. I'm not recommending it or anything, but in the video, he used sea salt, which is a coarser salt. Table salt or even powder salt is much finer which would both mean smaller gaps and better dissolving, which would probably lead to better joints and strength. Again, don't have a horse in this fight, but curious what the results would be with finer salt.
NEVER PUT WAX ON ANYTHING IN THE SHOP THAT MIGHT TOUCH A TO BE FINISHED WOOR SURFACE!!!!. The tape on the clamp may be a pain....GET OVER IT. Dealing with tell tail fisheyes on your finish is a monumental pain. FYI: Alway wash you hands after eating or before you go to work in the shop. One millwork shop I worked in was have major problems with fish eyes in the clear coat. after weeks they traced to a laborer sander who had potato chips for lunch and did not wash his hands before returning to work.
Fantastic videos! As a scientist and engineer, I found your content incredibly insightful. Your videos have answered many questions I've had in the past while working with wood. While I'm not a professional woodworker, I enjoy creating sawdust from time to time. The episode on glue strength was particularly enlightening-truly invaluable information! Thank you for putting in the scientific research to help us all. Keep up the great work!
Lower sthrength of blue tape compared to double sided is exactly why I use blue tape :) Double sided can be difficult to separate, could leave residue, and somethimes, on soft woods even rip some fibers from the surface. And strength of the blue tape is more than enough for almost any application I can imagine, and I have tried over the years. At least.. I never have any isue with it. Yes.. if you put too much CA on it, it can spill over, but there is no need for any substantial quantity of CA. Even few smal dots are more than enough. On the other side, only few variants of double sided is available in my country. One so called "office" variant, and "heavy" one made for carpets and simmilar (Tesa brand usualy). Carpet variant is defintley too strong, and "office" one.. depends on the particular brand, but also on the too strong side compared with blye tape/CA.
I've never tried the salt trick as I've been skeptical about what it'll do to the wood and the glue, now I'll definitely never try it! Btw, Dashner Design and Restoration on UA-cam is excellent at hiding imperfections in furniture! All the way into the weeds of painting in wood grain to blend in veneer repairs. Really shows the effort needed to get it perfect!
For most smaller, shallow dents (roughly 1/8") I usually dab water onto the dent which will swell the wood removing it. Slightly larger dents may take additional water applications but can also do the job. If it over swells just sand it flat.
So excited to see more from you! I'm not an engineer but I do have a degree in engineering technologies and your content just tickles my brain in the right places. It's great to see this type of methodology in woodworking testing and experimentation.@@WoodcraftBySuman
Chrystalized salt GRANULES are uniform in sore and tinny. Using shaved sea salt is asking for problems. Just a pinch is all you need. Alternately screened "sugar sand" works. Again, must be uniform in size AND used sparingly.
Here's a way to combat a couple of the problems you brought up that are far too common on UA-cam. QUIT USING SO MUCH GLUE. "Squeeze-out" should be tiny little droplets, not gushing rivers. More glue doesn't make better joints. In fact you might set up one of your tests to prove or disprove my contention that more joints have failed from too much glue than have failed from too little. Barely wet both surfaces. Parts about to be assembled should never have enough glue on them for it to run. I have clamps I've used for 40 years that don't have as many glue stains as some the nearly new ones I see on several "influencer" channels.
The damage to the bar is from the vinegar. We metalworkers use it for normalizing stainless, and as a rust remover. I don't recommend it on a non-stainless surface you care about, especially overnight! Vinegar is an acid, and we time it for removing rust in hours, not days. Most woodworker's glues are water soluble, especially if left over night soaking in water. Give plain water a try for that method and skip the vinegar. If I wanted a surfactant to speed up the process, I'd add a couple drops of dish soap. For waterproof glues, give acetone or mineral spirits a try. (Never had this problem yet, so not sure what will dissolve waterproof woodworkers glue). The waxing is a good tip, I'd recommend extending it to all your unpainted/coated steel tools to help prevent rust. T-9 is even better if you live near the coast or in a humid area. DON'T use WD-40, it doesn't work well for preventing rust, but it's great for it's intended application, driving water away from a metal surface when drying it off. You can make your own rustproofing wax by mixing paraffin and mineral oil 50/50. I get my paraffin by buying the big ugly candles no one wants at the thrift store for pennies on the dollar. Speaking of rust, if you have some light rust to remove, and don't want or need a strong solution like white vinegar, make a mix with the cheap feed molasses from the feed/farm store. Just add molasses to the water until it looks like coffee, and soak the metal in it overnight. The sugars in the molasses turns to a weak acid when it contacts the rust, turning it into a black sludge. Wash the sludge off, and you'll have clean metal underneath. I've rescued a good number of cast iron skillets from the flea market this way, getting expensive pans for just a couple bucks and making them look like new, ready for seasoning. :)
Double-sided tape for the win. Every time I’ve used the blue tape and CA glue, no matter how careful I am, the CA glue squishes over onto my wood. Total bummer.
some bar clamps are chrome-plated, but others are just zinc-plated, like a typical bolt from the hardware store. Vinegar will eventually dissolve the zinc. I don't know how long it would take.
Regarding #1 - double sided tape is way more expensive than simple painter's tape. CA glue costs almost nothing. Plus, most double-sided tapes leave ugly residue on the wood. Second, don't use the blue tape, use the ordinary beige or brown type. The blue stuff usually has some coating ion it that makes it less reliable. Regarding spill, why would you use such an exorbitant amount of glue? You need very little actually, and then you have no risk of spill. The most important thing about this technique though is that it has a lot of holding force, making it suitable for use with routers and CNC machines, where I would not trust double-sided tape. You only need to make sure that you use enough contact area, for larger pieces, two strips on the outside just is not enough. But it's a good and reliable, cheap solution.
Salt is used as an ingredient in hide glues to increase open time (and as a preservative). I believe the salt in the joint tip goes back to before pva glue - but I can't remember where I picked that up.
Excellent video! Great job on the experimental setup. I really enjoy this type of video where we see quantitative results vs qualitative (ie, feelings). The salt results are very interesting! The use of vinegar + water to clean dry glue off of clamp bars looks very useful. The last look at the actual end result of saw dust + glue to fix mistakes was very useful! A video exploring various methods to fix dents, surface oopsies and their effectiveness would be very interesting. Keep up the great work!
Thanks Suman for debunking these common “magic” hacks, and especially for offering alternatives. I also appreciate your efforts to be consistent when testing. Yes, we all make mistakes. The trick is to cover them up as best we can. Developing this skill is part of our craft. We tend to believe that others will zero in on goof ups, when, in fact, they’re often not noticeable unless & until we point them out.
You're using blue tape or painters tape exactly _because_ the bond is not as strong (read: just strong enough) and these tapes can be easily removed without residue. With super sticky double sided tape, this can be a problem. Also Time saving is not the point either, to the contrary: you donate some time to save your precious surfaces. You don't want any tear-out from super sticky double-sided tape, so you make your own from less sticky single sided tape. That debunking really was missing the point, it backfired.
I have used XFasten Double Sided Tape on the CNC and have had a few faillures. I am not sure why. Do you have any tips on applying the tape etc. to eliminate the failures. When it works it is great. But when it fails, not so much. Am I doing something wrong?
I recently had a small crack in a project that I could close back up with a clamp so I added some glue over the crack, spread it around to push it in to the crack and then clamped it shut. I then immediately sanded the surface around the crack and rubbed the fine sawdust over the crack. Once the glue dried and I removed the clamp, you wouldn't know the crack was there (unless you were me and knew the crack was there).
You are doing great. I am a big fan already watching your second video. The only missing thing for me (as a former researcher) is a factor of repetition on your experiments. I know it adds to the work but I think it would just make it much more strong of an argument if you can do few more samples. But even without that I respect your work a lot. Thank you.
Im doing a video on filling worm holes with this method on an ebonized piece of red oak I sculpted if you wanna see it I’ll be releasing it sometime tomorrow another great video !!
I haven't even heard of the "salt trick" and since wood glue is water based, I was really suspicious about that. So it helps aligning but weakens the bond (as I expected). But what about adding some insoluble grains to the surface to have the same effect when aligning the wood (like e.g. some sand) ? Thinking of emery paper, sand should have a similar stopping effect as salt grains. Sand should also not react with the glue and, when properly clamped, the sand grains should press into the wood. 🤔 I haven't tried that myself (as I never tried the salt either), but it seems more logical to me than using salt. Anyway, I still would assume a somewhat weaker bondage between the two pieces of wood, but way better than with the salt which will contaminate a larger portion of the bonded suface by dissolving into the glue, just because glue manufacturers always state on their products that the surface should be clean and free of dust to ensure proper bonding.
Cyanoacrylate (superglue / crazyglue) and sawdust works at least as well as wood glue, has different stain properties and is workable within minutes. Sands well.
Thank you for such an informative video. I would suggest you change the title though. Those tips are not bad or wrong.. people only need to know the disadvantages and possible "side effects" and how to avoid them. For instance, the salt tip is good and has worked for woodworkers for decades or even centuries.. I don't know.. but you only need a tiny sprinkle, and maybe avoid the very edges. I really appreciate the added knowledge in your videos.
I'd never put salt on the glue salt sucks moisture out of things, it will interfere with glue and this proves it thanks. For those who don't know spray dried glue accidents with vinegar like I do on my floors after a few minutes or more it gets soft like putty easily removable also works on waterproof wood glues
Obvious question on salt… Is it the grit, or the chemical reaction doing the trick? Would sand work as well? As for the glue and sanding trick, I use superglue. It solidifies instantly when hit with the sander.
I had the same experience with salt the one and only time I tried it. First, it really didn't do much as far as initially preventing slippage, but fairly quickly it reacted with my glue (titebond extend) and failed to bond without leaving a gap. So probably too much salt added. So when I broke the joint apart, the result showed that the glue had not penetrated the grain of the wood very well, and instead accumulated around the salt grains. I should point out that the joints being glued were 90 degree angles on a right angle triangle shape, and needed caules clamped in place with a 45 degree groove in order to put pressure on the joint. Not a "trick" i'll use in the future.
Very glad you did the salt test. I always thought it would be very useful for chessboards that I make because I've had alignment issues just using cauls but I was never brave enough to try the salt trick because I wasn't sure how it would affect the bond. I could actually live with a 20% loss in joint strength for a chessboard but getting perfectly tights joints is hard enough as it is so adding salt into the mix just isn't worth it.
People need to be more thoughtful about the sheer amount pf plastic waste generated by the glue-and-tape method. Its a fine trick if used *after* exhausting other possibilities like jigs and better use of traditional clamping apparatus, including many which can be made from scrap and then used for years.
I feel like someone must have pointed this out already, but "has" in the title should be "have". Unless you're trying bait people like me into commenting, in which case, well done.
Solid tests. Never heard of that salt "trick" before. lol Here is a tip for the woodglue trick to help it work 110% better. After you mix in the sawdust from the same board, sprinkle the same sawdust on top of the glue area. The sawdust on top will draw up the glue. When you sand the spot, you will be mostly sanding wood and not glue. We use to do this when I worked in a cabinet shop decades ago.
I want to let everyone in on a little secret. Carpet Tape. It’s two inches wide, so you don’t have to fiddle with little strips and is cheaper at about $6-$10 dollars for a roll. Even his preferred brand, Xfasten, sells carpet tape and all of it is fabric backed.
I think you're missing the point. Painter's tape and CA glue are cheap. Double-sided tape is more expensive. This iis an application where shear strength isn't particularly important. It's not permanent. In fact strength can be a negative. Too much double sided tape can cause too much swearing.😁 I wouldn't trust the painter's tape hack around a router but I just used it for painting a tool holder before assembly. I had to mask off areas that will be glued, so had the painter's tape on the edges. I then rolled out some painters tape on the bench, put a few drops of CA glue on the tape, then stuck the piece to it. The edge to be glued is masked and holding the rest of the piece so that I could paint all exposed sides. Like all hacks, it's not one size fits all but it is a good tool to have in your arsenal.
Good video. On the tape options for temp holding, I agree with everything you said, but am ambiguous about your conclusion and the need for comparing raw strength. It seems to me that both methods are strong enough for temp bonding, so the raw break-level comparison is irrelevant...the proper comparison is to a requirement. So assume and state a use case and a needed level of strength and compare to that. This is a more difficult test, but the raw comparison of break pressure is only partially useful...it tells you which is stronger but not if either or both is strong enough.
Thanks a lot for thaese tests! Seeing the gap left with using salt was a show stopper. I'm pretty fussy about my glueups, and that result you gout would be a waste product. And yes, the salt is reacting with the glue. PVA clue is created in part with acetic acid, and adding sodium chloride and potassium Chloride in sea salt to PVA is creating a new substance.
Please conduct your experiments with the hot iron and damp cloth method of removing dents from timber. By the way, this is the first of your videos I have watched & I have subscribed.
Why would anyone think adding salt to a glue joint would be helpful? Wood glues cure from either oxygen and/or water vapor. These have no problem penetrating the wood to get to the glue. So you are just adding foreign materials with no strength to the joint. Add sand and see if it helps (it won't).
Great video once again. Nothing I really disagree with but just a couple of notes? 1. It's not really great either but instead of salt one can lay a brad nail or two into the joint instead of salt. You just have to be sure to press or clamp things together in order to embed the nail into the wood (easier in soft wood than in hard wood). Again, not great, but not horrible either. 2. I've actually never used the painters tape because I have double-sided tape and haven't had an issue with that. But I wonder if I might some day if I'm concerned about being able to get the two pieces apart. CA glue doesn't hold up very well to a sharp rap so one might like the idea of being able to administer a sharp thwack to one of the boards and have the temporary joint come apart. Again, I've not done it but I might in the future?
To avoid parts from moving during glue up I've seen YT videos suggesting rubbing two pieces of sandpaper together (I forget which grit) and letting the residue of doing so fall onto the glue to provide the grit. Maybe try that as well if you repeat the experiment with different materials.
Double sided tape is the worst option. With a proper adhesive sticking double sided tape, you always damage the surface and often rip out fibers. No human beeing with a bit of intelligence uses as much superglue as you do. Everybody only uses some drops and does not spill the blue-tape with it as you do. Look at any skilled joiner or even luthiers, they always use blue tape and superglue and not double sided tape.
I don't see the point of your blue tape test? This method is MEANT to only be temporary, your tests actually prove this to be the case. Another click bait channel.
Re sawdust and wood glue. So recently I learnt that taking scraper shavings from end grain and using that is waaaayyyyyy better than sawdust. I assume due to the orientation of the grain but it just works better. There's less shrinkage, you need less glue, and it's not as uniform in colour as sawdust helping it to blend in.
I've filled in minor imperfections/gaps with the sawdust and glue trick, but those were getting painted a color not stained. it works perfect for painted but not at all for stained, the minimum amount of glue with some sawdust sprinkled on and pressed a little (not rubbed in.) and wait a while for it to set & sand.
I have used the tape and CA glue trick many times. If you are getting squeeze out then you are using WAY too much. Like ten orctwenty times too much. I can hold a piece down for planing with a thin bead. Literally a pencil line thickness. Maybe two if the piece is more than an inch wide. That also deals with the alignment issue. No squeeze out so less accuracy needed. The issue is not really whether double sided tape is stronger. It is whether either technique is strong enough. If it is then it doesn't matter if the other is stronger. And there is no mention of glue residue which is a problem with some brands. But looking at the video amount of glue applied shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the technique.
Well yes, that's the point. The whole point is that blue tape won't mar the surface of the wood and comes off super easy. Double sided painters tape is like $20 a roll, and is not easy to come by.
While double sided tape is good I really don't find it any faster than using CA glue. I hate using double sided tape mainly because it is such a pain to peel the backing off. Or I just don't have the finger nails for it.
On unsealed wood you can iron out dings. I mean this literally. If something fell on the wood and made a dent for example, you moisten the wood slightly and go over it with an iron on high heat so the water boils. The dent will either disappear or at least get a lot smaller. If it's not gone, spray the dent again and iron it again. It works really well if the fibers aren't damaged. If the fibers are broken, the wood will look a bit frayed and you need to sand over it a little. You can iron out dents on oil treated wood (like rifle stocks), but since not much water can enter the wood, it won't be as effective. It will still work on small dents and lessen bigger ones. I have used this on many occasions and I always find fascinating how well it works.
For the salt test, it looks like you used sea salt, which has much larger granules than table salt or powder salt. It would have dissolved better if the granules were smaller. I'm curious if better dissolving would have made it stronger.
The blue tape method is a flawed concept. Blue tape is not supposed have a high strength bond. Super glue on top of a low strength bond is still a low strength bond. Super glue is only high strength in tension and is not strong in shear. Try using super glue to glue a pencil standing vertical. Pulling in straight up (tension) the glue is very strong. It takes next to no force to knock it over (shear).
Love your content! I just used sawdust and pva to fill in some gaps in my hand cut dovetail bench. Worked like a charm but I think it’s only because there was end grain involved and after finish the fill was invisible
I wanted to clarify something on the double sided tape tip. Many have pointed out that the xfasten, while bonds strongly, is not stiff enough for cnc/template routing. While I have not had significant issues using the xfasten tape, I have gotten feedback from some folks that purchased the tape recently. I do not know if their formulation changed or what the issue is. The blue tape method is a perfectly fine method - if you like it, don't change a thing. I personally find it cumbersome. Over the last 2 weeks I have been using all of these methods and revisited the paper backed double sided tape and am falling in love with it again, despite the higher price tag. It seems to be the perfect hybrid - holds strongly with little/no deflection. Easy to tear. Comes off without any residue issue. etc etc. So at this time, i would not recommend the xfasten tape, instead, consider buying this (affiliate link): amzn.to/3S5OxjJ
I LOVE your videos! Dispelling rumors and wives tales via facts and data. It's refreshing. Please keep them coming!
Saw dust is great for soaking up spilled liquids like oil. Then keep the very lightly oil coated saw dust to use to put on the floor to pick up really fine dust and dirt. Broom motion getting the dust airborne an thus not cleaning the floor without the saw dust. Mix dry saw dust with wet oil coated saw dust and mix to get lightly coated saw dust. My dad showed me this hack.
Interesting. I’ve been using A FEW grains of salt when face gluing boards to increase thickness for longer than you have been alive. Never had a failure or could tell the difference in the final result. That said, a FEW GRAINS is all that is necessary. The amount of salt that you used, even on the smallest sample would be enough for many glue ups. I think I’ve had the same 4oz shaker in my shop for 20 years. The technique works great when laminating panels, especially when you need good alignment as to not have to trim too much waste afterwards.
He used waaaay to much salt…
If you were super concerned about it, you could probably fill your salt shaker with sand for the same effect without any chemical reaction.
@@ReallyBadJuJu this is the real point with the salt trick. It's not the sodium chloride crystals that do the job it's a fine grain of anything that provides a secondary gripping surface that also digs slightly into the wood.
Salt good because salt make cube with pointy corners
You can just use saw dust @@ReallyBadJuJu
Great content. I was surprised you did not try saw dust instead of salt for preventing peices from sliding.
I wanted to see that as well. I've heard that it works just as well as salt, plus you've got plenty of sawdust nearby anyway.
Hopefully we can get a follow up where he tries the amount of salt people actually use and sawdust
7:41 I would like to see the variance in clamp pressure as well. I'm curious if higher clamp pressure with salt (and saw dust) would provide an equivalent joint strength than without.
Interesting! Try fine grain sand instead of salt - less hygroscopic. Sawdust behaves like "end-grain" when finished - always looks darker just like end grain. Keep it up! Subbed.
Nice video. I switched to double side tape because its easier and avoids the glue mess. Never found the salt method to be useful for woodworking but it will keep a beer glass from sticking to a coaster. Cool bonus tip.
The glue and sawdust tip is really best for painting, where you are filling the surface in prep for applying the paint.
Or for filling gaps around joints, like a slight miscut on a dovetail or a through tenon.
Wouldn’t it be easier to just use putty then?
I have tried to fill the gaps of a tenon with sawdust and glue. The resulting joint is weak and I easily break it. I’d rather use epoxy resin glue which is good at filling any void.
Very interesting to see you "mythbust" tricks that I guess most of us have heard time and time again. I really enjoy your videos! Thank you!
Didn't your parents teach you to NOT lick your salty glue joints?
Believe it or not, it had not come up till recently.
@@WoodcraftBySuman shocking! Thanks for another great video!
I’ve been calling out the glue and saw dust trick for ever when I see videos advertising it. Finally someone makes a video proving it’s trash.
How could you leave out mentioning glue residue when using dubble sided tape? Especially on porouse surfaces and/or left on for a longer time, it will be a great pain to get rid of. And often enough sanding will not help.
You used way to much salt!! A couple of grains is what should be used. The gap in the joint is probably caused by a ”heap” of salt, hindering the gap to close.
Your ”cleaning” of the clamps with vinegar, clearly destroyed the surfaces on the clamps and leaving them highly corroded. Also funny that you did not mentioned that vax on the clamps, may be transferred to the work piece and cause future problems when for example staining the surfaces.
And the method of using glue and saw dust are not meant to be used on surfaces that are clearly visible and finnished with clear lacquers. And your small dents would very easy to steam out and be totaly invisible. The method with glue and saw dust are useful in hard to reach places and if you save saw dust (from previous) projects you can make good matches. You have to keep in mind that the saw dust is to be considered as endgrain. And that is why it gets darker when stained/oiled/lacquered. So if you treat it accordingly, i.e. shellack, you will get better/good results.
How do you not have 1million subs? This combines two of my all time favorite things, science and woodworking.
I thoroughly enjoyed it brother! I'm definitely going to be using the clamp cleaning trick! That's legit!
Thanks bud!
@@WoodcraftBySuman yessir!
Well done! Watched a few of your videos & you now have a new sub! Happy Holidays! 👍👍🌲🌲
love your content! Thank you for doing all this work to test things out!
Suman, your analysis and testing methods are fantastic to watch. I appreciate all the hard work you do.
Suman, another AWESOME video! Your channel is the most underrated woodworking resource on You Tube. I love your research methods and the tremendous data and results you share with us. Your stuff is A+ all the way. Thank you, sir! 🫡
I appreciate your continued support and engagement with my content more than you can imagine. Thank you! Happy holidays!
Sliding the glued surfaces against each other 3-5 times will make the glue grab much better
You can use a tiny (tiny) amount of sand to stop slippage and it won’t remove water from the glue.
Love your work. Yes, I also had suspected that a lot of tips were really recycled myths there were never verified.
Another fantastic video. testing methods are very sound and delivery is right to the point. I've been subscribed for a while and frankly, I'm still amazed your channel doesn't have more subscribers. Keep up the great work, If you build it they will come!
If you start getting lots of views on anything youtube doesn’t like you get cut off and the views stop even though the video is still there
Suggestion: builders sand (salt free) rather than salt.
Someone else also suggested the same. Honestly think it’s a great idea! I might test it and see how it holds up.
@@WoodcraftBySuman Please do test it. I was about to leave the same suggestion, and it's a technique that my father's father used in a production shop during the Great Depression. I enjoyed this one, Suman.
I am always looking forward to your next video. Accurate, informative, and helpful.
Hoping that you will look at saw blade flutter sometime. What makes it happen? Asymetric pressure on the blade? Start up? Entering the wood too fast? What are the principle causes that make zero clearance kerfs get wider?
All the best!
Thanks Paul! For sure. I may or may not be working on gathering proper equipment to see how viable that test would be. It may or may not involve an ultra high speed cameras..... you know, hypothetically speaking.
Great video! I actually just came in from the workshop, where I was using the glue and sawdust trick, so your thumbnail triggered me (good job!). Fortunately, I was doing it on rosewood, where it works like a dream.
rosewood flex 💪 🤣
Never liked the salt in the glue joint or sawdust and glue methods, but how dare you take the blue tape trick from me! 😭 At least you gave me a new double sided tape to try. The stuff I have is terrible! I can never get the backing off!
Haha. Nothing wrong with the blue tape method if you enjoy constantly being convenienced by it. The slight strength difference is neglible imo.
I appreciate your sawdust and glue tip.
In the past I’ve mixed fine sawdust, glue, and Zar’s wood filler with decent results, but I like the glue-alone-then-sanding “slurry” tip.
Thank you.
I tried salt in 90 degree miters exactly once, and was horrified at the gaps that resulted. careful alignment while gradually increasing clamping pressure turned out to be much more worthwhile.
keep this stuff up! I subscribed from an earlier nerdy dive and will watch any sort of "OK yeah people say it but is it actually true" content.
I'm curious what kind of salt you used. I'm not recommending it or anything, but in the video, he used sea salt, which is a coarser salt. Table salt or even powder salt is much finer which would both mean smaller gaps and better dissolving, which would probably lead to better joints and strength. Again, don't have a horse in this fight, but curious what the results would be with finer salt.
NEVER PUT WAX ON ANYTHING IN THE SHOP THAT MIGHT TOUCH A TO BE FINISHED WOOR SURFACE!!!!. The tape on the clamp may be a pain....GET OVER IT. Dealing with tell tail fisheyes on your finish is a monumental pain. FYI: Alway wash you hands after eating or before you go to work in the shop. One millwork shop I worked in was have major problems with fish eyes in the clear coat. after weeks they traced to a laborer sander who had potato chips for lunch and did not wash his hands before returning to work.
Fantastic videos! As a scientist and engineer, I found your content incredibly insightful. Your videos have answered many questions I've had in the past while working with wood. While I'm not a professional woodworker, I enjoy creating sawdust from time to time. The episode on glue strength was particularly enlightening-truly invaluable information! Thank you for putting in the scientific research to help us all. Keep up the great work!
Lower sthrength of blue tape compared to double sided is exactly why I use blue tape :)
Double sided can be difficult to separate, could leave residue, and somethimes, on soft woods even rip some fibers from the surface.
And strength of the blue tape is more than enough for almost any application I can imagine, and I have tried over the years.
At least.. I never have any isue with it.
Yes.. if you put too much CA on it, it can spill over, but there is no need for any substantial quantity of CA. Even few smal dots are more than enough.
On the other side, only few variants of double sided is available in my country. One so called "office" variant, and "heavy" one made for carpets and simmilar (Tesa brand usualy).
Carpet variant is defintley too strong, and "office" one.. depends on the particular brand, but also on the too strong side compared with blye tape/CA.
I've never tried the salt trick as I've been skeptical about what it'll do to the wood and the glue, now I'll definitely never try it!
Btw, Dashner Design and Restoration on UA-cam is excellent at hiding imperfections in furniture! All the way into the weeds of painting in wood grain to blend in veneer repairs. Really shows the effort needed to get it perfect!
For taking glue off the clamp, don't use vinegar, which eats the metal. Why not just the heat gun? Especially PVC glue gets soft below 100ºC.
For most smaller, shallow dents (roughly 1/8") I usually dab water onto the dent which will swell the wood removing it. Slightly larger dents may take additional water applications but can also do the job. If it over swells just sand it flat.
Try a sponge dipped in hot water
Subscribed brother. I can see the hard work behind the curtain
🙌 appreciate you
The amount of precision of your tests is amazing. Great video as always 😁
Thanks dude! If some of my future plans and collaborations pan out, we are going to take it to another level :)
@@WoodcraftBySuman Can't wait to see what you do!
So excited to see more from you! I'm not an engineer but I do have a degree in engineering technologies and your content just tickles my brain in the right places. It's great to see this type of methodology in woodworking testing and experimentation.@@WoodcraftBySuman
Chrystalized salt GRANULES are uniform in sore and tinny. Using shaved sea salt is asking for problems. Just a pinch is all you need. Alternately screened "sugar sand" works. Again, must be uniform in size AND used sparingly.
Here's a way to combat a couple of the problems you brought up that are far too common on UA-cam. QUIT USING SO MUCH GLUE. "Squeeze-out" should be tiny little droplets, not gushing rivers. More glue doesn't make better joints. In fact you might set up one of your tests to prove or disprove my contention that more joints have failed from too much glue than have failed from too little. Barely wet both surfaces. Parts about to be assembled should never have enough glue on them for it to run. I have clamps I've used for 40 years that don't have as many glue stains as some the nearly new ones I see on several "influencer" channels.
Dang. I been salting my steaks heavily for years. Oh wait wood? What? Who? Why? No no no. Next video, steak grilling. I’m hungry.
Xfasten tape FTW. Use this exclusively on furniture builds or CNC whenever clamps can’t be used. CA and blue tape is rubbish by comparison.
The damage to the bar is from the vinegar. We metalworkers use it for normalizing stainless, and as a rust remover. I don't recommend it on a non-stainless surface you care about, especially overnight! Vinegar is an acid, and we time it for removing rust in hours, not days. Most woodworker's glues are water soluble, especially if left over night soaking in water. Give plain water a try for that method and skip the vinegar. If I wanted a surfactant to speed up the process, I'd add a couple drops of dish soap. For waterproof glues, give acetone or mineral spirits a try. (Never had this problem yet, so not sure what will dissolve waterproof woodworkers glue).
The waxing is a good tip, I'd recommend extending it to all your unpainted/coated steel tools to help prevent rust. T-9 is even better if you live near the coast or in a humid area. DON'T use WD-40, it doesn't work well for preventing rust, but it's great for it's intended application, driving water away from a metal surface when drying it off. You can make your own rustproofing wax by mixing paraffin and mineral oil 50/50. I get my paraffin by buying the big ugly candles no one wants at the thrift store for pennies on the dollar.
Speaking of rust, if you have some light rust to remove, and don't want or need a strong solution like white vinegar, make a mix with the cheap feed molasses from the feed/farm store. Just add molasses to the water until it looks like coffee, and soak the metal in it overnight. The sugars in the molasses turns to a weak acid when it contacts the rust, turning it into a black sludge. Wash the sludge off, and you'll have clean metal underneath. I've rescued a good number of cast iron skillets from the flea market this way, getting expensive pans for just a couple bucks and making them look like new, ready for seasoning. :)
Double-sided tape for the win. Every time I’ve used the blue tape and CA glue, no matter how careful I am, the CA glue squishes over onto my wood. Total bummer.
some bar clamps are chrome-plated, but others are just zinc-plated, like a typical bolt from the hardware store. Vinegar will eventually dissolve the zinc. I don't know how long it would take.
Regarding #1 - double sided tape is way more expensive than simple painter's tape. CA glue costs almost nothing. Plus, most double-sided tapes leave ugly residue on the wood.
Second, don't use the blue tape, use the ordinary beige or brown type. The blue stuff usually has some coating ion it that makes it less reliable. Regarding spill, why would you use such an exorbitant amount of glue? You need very little actually, and then you have no risk of spill. The most important thing about this technique though is that it has a lot of holding force, making it suitable for use with routers and CNC machines, where I would not trust double-sided tape. You only need to make sure that you use enough contact area, for larger pieces, two strips on the outside just is not enough. But it's a good and reliable, cheap solution.
Salt is used as an ingredient in hide glues to increase open time (and as a preservative). I believe the salt in the joint tip goes back to before pva glue - but I can't remember where I picked that up.
Thanks, Suman! Great video! I should probably go to the gym as well. Thanks for the reminder.
Excellent video! Great job on the experimental setup. I really enjoy this type of video where we see quantitative results vs qualitative (ie, feelings). The salt results are very interesting! The use of vinegar + water to clean dry glue off of clamp bars looks very useful. The last look at the actual end result of saw dust + glue to fix mistakes was very useful! A video exploring various methods to fix dents, surface oopsies and their effectiveness would be very interesting. Keep up the great work!
Thanks Suman for debunking these common “magic” hacks, and especially for offering alternatives. I also appreciate your efforts to be consistent when testing. Yes, we all make mistakes. The trick is to cover them up as best we can. Developing this skill is part of our craft. We tend to believe that others will zero in on goof ups, when, in fact, they’re often not noticeable unless & until we point them out.
You're using blue tape or painters tape exactly _because_ the bond is not as strong (read: just strong enough) and these tapes can be easily removed without residue. With super sticky double sided tape, this can be a problem. Also Time saving is not the point either, to the contrary: you donate some time to save your precious surfaces. You don't want any tear-out from super sticky double-sided tape, so you make your own from less sticky single sided tape. That debunking really was missing the point, it backfired.
must be nice to be rich enough to afford all that scrap cherry! great work suman! love these test videos! 😀
Pre-pandemic entry into the cherry haul saved me millions! 😂
I have used XFasten Double Sided Tape on the CNC and have had a few faillures. I am not sure why. Do you have any tips on applying the tape etc. to eliminate the failures. When it works it is great. But when it fails, not so much. Am I doing something wrong?
Card-carrying scientist here, just wanting to say I appreciate the lengths to which you go and communication of your experiments. Kudos.
I recently had a small crack in a project that I could close back up with a clamp so I added some glue over the crack, spread it around to push it in to the crack and then clamped it shut. I then immediately sanded the surface around the crack and rubbed the fine sawdust over the crack. Once the glue dried and I removed the clamp, you wouldn't know the crack was there (unless you were me and knew the crack was there).
You are doing great. I am a big fan already watching your second video. The only missing thing for me (as a former researcher) is a factor of repetition on your experiments. I know it adds to the work but I think it would just make it much more strong of an argument if you can do few more samples. But even without that I respect your work a lot. Thank you.
Im doing a video on filling worm holes with this method on an ebonized piece of red oak I sculpted if you wanna see it I’ll be releasing it sometime tomorrow another great video !!
Thank you for the clamps cleaning tip. I now have my expensive JET clamps back in prime condition.
My first time watching your channel. Great stuff, thank you. Subscribed.
I haven't even heard of the "salt trick" and since wood glue is water based, I was really suspicious about that. So it helps aligning but weakens the bond (as I expected). But what about adding some insoluble grains to the surface to have the same effect when aligning the wood (like e.g. some sand) ? Thinking of emery paper, sand should have a similar stopping effect as salt grains. Sand should also not react with the glue and, when properly clamped, the sand grains should press into the wood. 🤔
I haven't tried that myself (as I never tried the salt either), but it seems more logical to me than using salt. Anyway, I still would assume a somewhat weaker bondage between the two pieces of wood, but way better than with the salt which will contaminate a larger portion of the bonded suface by dissolving into the glue, just because glue manufacturers always state on their products that the surface should be clean and free of dust to ensure proper bonding.
Cyanoacrylate (superglue / crazyglue) and sawdust works at least as well as wood glue, has different stain properties and is workable within minutes. Sands well.
Thank you for such an informative video. I would suggest you change the title though. Those tips are not bad or wrong.. people only need to know the disadvantages and possible "side effects" and how to avoid them. For instance, the salt tip is good and has worked for woodworkers for decades or even centuries.. I don't know.. but you only need a tiny sprinkle, and maybe avoid the very edges. I really appreciate the added knowledge in your videos.
I'd never put salt on the glue salt sucks moisture out of things, it will interfere with glue and this proves it thanks. For those who don't know spray dried glue accidents with vinegar like I do on my floors after a few minutes or more it gets soft like putty easily removable also works on waterproof wood glues
Obvious question on salt… Is it the grit, or the chemical reaction doing the trick? Would sand work as well? As for the glue and sanding trick, I use superglue. It solidifies instantly when hit with the sander.
I had the same experience with salt the one and only time I tried it. First, it really didn't do much as far as initially preventing slippage, but fairly quickly it reacted with my glue (titebond extend) and failed to bond without leaving a gap. So probably too much salt added. So when I broke the joint apart, the result showed that the glue had not penetrated the grain of the wood very well, and instead accumulated around the salt grains.
I should point out that the joints being glued were 90 degree angles on a right angle triangle shape, and needed caules clamped in place with a 45 degree groove in order to put pressure on the joint.
Not a "trick" i'll use in the future.
Very glad you did the salt test. I always thought it would be very useful for chessboards that I make because I've had alignment issues just using cauls but I was never brave enough to try the salt trick because I wasn't sure how it would affect the bond. I could actually live with a 20% loss in joint strength for a chessboard but getting perfectly tights joints is hard enough as it is so adding salt into the mix just isn't worth it.
People need to be more thoughtful about the sheer amount pf plastic waste generated by the glue-and-tape method. Its a fine trick if used *after* exhausting other possibilities like jigs and better use of traditional clamping apparatus, including many which can be made from scrap and then used for years.
I feel like someone must have pointed this out already, but "has" in the title should be "have". Unless you're trying bait people like me into commenting, in which case, well done.
Solid tests. Never heard of that salt "trick" before. lol Here is a tip for the woodglue trick to help it work 110% better. After you mix in the sawdust from the same board, sprinkle the same sawdust on top of the glue area. The sawdust on top will draw up the glue. When you sand the spot, you will be mostly sanding wood and not glue. We use to do this when I worked in a cabinet shop decades ago.
I want to let everyone in on a little secret. Carpet Tape. It’s two inches wide, so you don’t have to fiddle with little strips and is cheaper at about $6-$10 dollars for a roll. Even his preferred brand, Xfasten, sells carpet tape and all of it is fabric backed.
Watched a few of your videos. Like your style and info/methods. Subscribed
I think you're missing the point. Painter's tape and CA glue are cheap. Double-sided tape is more expensive. This iis an application where shear strength isn't particularly important. It's not permanent. In fact strength can be a negative. Too much double sided tape can cause too much swearing.😁
I wouldn't trust the painter's tape hack around a router but I just used it for painting a tool holder before assembly. I had to mask off areas that will be glued, so had the painter's tape on the edges. I then rolled out some painters tape on the bench, put a few drops of CA glue on the tape, then stuck the piece to it. The edge to be glued is masked and holding the rest of the piece so that I could paint all exposed sides.
Like all hacks, it's not one size fits all but it is a good tool to have in your arsenal.
Always a fan of MythBuster approach to confirm/deny, at least revealing a context.
Good video. On the tape options for temp holding, I agree with everything you said, but am ambiguous about your conclusion and the need for comparing raw strength. It seems to me that both methods are strong enough for temp bonding, so the raw break-level comparison is irrelevant...the proper comparison is to a requirement. So assume and state a use case and a needed level of strength and compare to that. This is a more difficult test, but the raw comparison of break pressure is only partially useful...it tells you which is stronger but not if either or both is strong enough.
Thanks a lot for thaese tests! Seeing the gap left with using salt was a show stopper. I'm pretty fussy about my glueups, and that result you gout would be a waste product. And yes, the salt is reacting with the glue. PVA clue is created in part with acetic acid, and adding sodium chloride and potassium Chloride in sea salt to PVA is creating a new substance.
Great and enlightening video. Now I can make better informed decisions doing my stuff.
You got a new subsciber 😊
Please conduct your experiments with the hot iron and damp cloth method of removing dents from timber. By the way, this is the first of your videos I have watched & I have subscribed.
Why would anyone think adding salt to a glue joint would be helpful? Wood glues cure from either oxygen and/or water vapor. These have no problem penetrating the wood to get to the glue. So you are just adding foreign materials with no strength to the joint. Add sand and see if it helps (it won't).
A squirt of WD40 removes a host of unwanted overspill & excess adhesives etc.
Great video once again. Nothing I really disagree with but just a couple of notes?
1. It's not really great either but instead of salt one can lay a brad nail or two into the joint instead of salt. You just have to be sure to press or clamp things together in order to embed the nail into the wood (easier in soft wood than in hard wood). Again, not great, but not horrible either.
2. I've actually never used the painters tape because I have double-sided tape and haven't had an issue with that. But I wonder if I might some day if I'm concerned about being able to get the two pieces apart. CA glue doesn't hold up very well to a sharp rap so one might like the idea of being able to administer a sharp thwack to one of the boards and have the temporary joint come apart. Again, I've not done it but I might in the future?
To avoid parts from moving during glue up I've seen YT videos suggesting rubbing two pieces of sandpaper together (I forget which grit) and letting the residue of doing so fall onto the glue to provide the grit. Maybe try that as well if you repeat the experiment with different materials.
Double sided tape is the worst option. With a proper adhesive sticking double sided tape, you always damage the surface and often rip out fibers. No human beeing with a bit of intelligence uses as much superglue as you do. Everybody only uses some drops and does not spill the blue-tape with it as you do. Look at any skilled joiner or even luthiers, they always use blue tape and superglue and not double sided tape.
I don't see the point of your blue tape test? This method is MEANT to only be temporary, your tests actually prove this to be the case. Another click bait channel.
Outstanding. Loved that video. So many great tips, each verified!!!!
Re sawdust and wood glue. So recently I learnt that taking scraper shavings from end grain and using that is waaaayyyyyy better than sawdust. I assume due to the orientation of the grain but it just works better. There's less shrinkage, you need less glue, and it's not as uniform in colour as sawdust helping it to blend in.
Really great info on getting glue off of K-Body clamps. Mine need some love for sure.
I've filled in minor imperfections/gaps with the sawdust and glue
trick, but those were getting painted a color not stained. it works
perfect for painted but not at all for stained, the minimum amount
of glue with some sawdust sprinkled on and pressed a little (not
rubbed in.) and wait a while for it to set & sand.
I have used the tape and CA glue trick many times. If you are getting squeeze out then you are using WAY too much. Like ten orctwenty times too much. I can hold a piece down for planing with a thin bead. Literally a pencil line thickness. Maybe two if the piece is more than an inch wide. That also deals with the alignment issue. No squeeze out so less accuracy needed. The issue is not really whether double sided tape is stronger. It is whether either technique is strong enough. If it is then it doesn't matter if the other is stronger. And there is no mention of glue residue which is a problem with some brands. But looking at the video amount of glue applied shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the technique.
Well yes, that's the point.
The whole point is that blue tape won't mar the surface of the wood and comes off super easy. Double sided painters tape is like $20 a roll, and is not easy to come by.
While double sided tape is good I really don't find it any faster than using CA glue. I hate using double sided tape mainly because it is such a pain to peel the backing off. Or I just don't have the finger nails for it.
Just wanted to thank you for using a lavalier microphone as designed, and not holding it between two fingers in front of your mouth.
Thanks for testing the salt and glue hack. I always figured it would not work well and you proved that. I've never done it due to my suspicions.
I use fine saw dust to stop wood from moving during glue ups. I only put a very little at each end of the board and I have not had any problem.
Please Don’t leave your clamp shafts in the vinegar for too long, it’s an acid and will likely cause them to rust.!
On unsealed wood you can iron out dings. I mean this literally. If something fell on the wood and made a dent for example, you moisten the wood slightly and go over it with an iron on high heat so the water boils. The dent will either disappear or at least get a lot smaller. If it's not gone, spray the dent again and iron it again. It works really well if the fibers aren't damaged. If the fibers are broken, the wood will look a bit frayed and you need to sand over it a little.
You can iron out dents on oil treated wood (like rifle stocks), but since not much water can enter the wood, it won't be as effective. It will still work on small dents and lessen bigger ones.
I have used this on many occasions and I always find fascinating how well it works.
For the salt test, it looks like you used sea salt, which has much larger granules than table salt or powder salt. It would have dissolved better if the granules were smaller. I'm curious if better dissolving would have made it stronger.
The blue tape method is a flawed concept. Blue tape is not supposed have a high strength bond. Super glue on top of a low strength bond is still a low strength bond. Super glue is only high strength in tension and is not strong in shear. Try using super glue to glue a pencil standing vertical. Pulling in straight up (tension) the glue is very strong. It takes next to no force to knock it over (shear).
Woodworking influencers: "Here are some tips!"
WoodcraftBySuman: "'I'm going to science the shit out of this."
Love your content! I just used sawdust and pva to fill in some gaps in my hand cut dovetail bench. Worked like a charm but I think it’s only because there was end grain involved and after finish the fill was invisible
I think the salt thing while clamping is something i wouldn't do. Maybe using a cross bar of wood to keep them level and clamp those.
What about using the sawdust and the sealer to fill the holes before doing a cover coat of the sealer, varnish, poly, shellac?
I don't work with wood (just can't do it), but these tips were excellent! Thank you.