Banks still bucking when he is saddled
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- Опубліковано 21 січ 2024
- He's been saddled almost every day since he's been here and still does this. That is not good.
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Unsaddling him in the arena will help him associate the arena with something good. I appreciate how calm you remained when he started bucking.
Unsaddling Banks in the arena is rewarding him. You finish the lesson on a positive and now he can relax and return to the stable. A great lesson. Look forward to seeing more of his progress.
I know nothing about the subject, but my strong impression is that Banks appreciated you not reacting to him and that helped calm him.
I think you might be the first person in his life who hasn't resented his acting out. This is a steep learning curve for him. In the course of your work I could really see how the coin started to fall through the slot. I like how you respected his claustrophobia and his terror at being asked to do something he wasn't sure he could handle. His fear sits really deep and you found an expert balance between letting go and bringing him back, all amazingly without raising your voice or becoming abusive, both of which he has probably experienced and is expecting to happen.
Unsaddling in the arena helps to teach Banks that running to the barn, or wanting to, is not the solution to his anxiety, and the lesson ends where and when you choose, and not where and when he wants it to.
Man, he has some issues.... Thank you for you patience with him! I really appreciate how you work horses. I watch few if any trainers, you are the only one I want to watch. I have been with horses for decades and now am horseless. Your techniques always impress me and your results speak for themselves.
I just see a green horse. All horses have issues until they are well trained. Banks is just doing what horses naturally do. All people poop their pants until they are trained not to.
I look forward to watching Banks’s progress. Seeing him gain confidence and trust and become less reactive will be really rewarding. He’s a beautiful horse.
That's terrible he is so stressed. They always say it is hardest to untrain problems than to train them correctly. Love watching how you handle all these different horses and the improvement that happens.
It looks like a quick and dirty cowboy start to me. We had a horse at our facility precisely like this. The "trainer" strapped a saddle on and rode him until he stopped bucking, creating anxiety over the ride. He was asked to leave shortly after, and it took quite a while to get the poor horseback to "normal." I don't know how people can "train" like that.
@@OnceUponaTimeline I’ve heard it another way … If you want to get there faster, slow down. And it’s true.
@@littlebrookreader949 in Germany I've heard: "Take it slow, we're in a hurry!" 😉
@@caobita 😂😂😂
Another wonderful outcome after a scary incident. I tip my hat to you Tim.
He is a nice horses You do a good job with the horses. Have a nice day 🐎🐎🐎🐎🐄🐄🐄🐄hi Bob
I'm guessing there are two reasons. One is so he won't get all bucky in the washrack and potentially slip on the pavement, and two to associate the arena as a good place and you a good guy. Also, there could be a third reason to keep him off guard as where saddling and unsaddling takes place, thereby teaching him that saddling/unsaddling will happen at any place and time as YOU choose -- and where the owner might choose. Of course it could be a combination of all three!
He sure seems like he wants to be a good boy. The way he looked at you when you removed the saddle. Can’t wait to see his progress! Thanks for more great videos… even in our mini arctic lately!
I have a hard time believing any of these so called experts telling you what to do has had to actually be in a stall or even an arena with a terrified horse. The courage you display around him is so impressive. Just being so calm regardless of how you feel inside is helpful to him. the effing unsaddling or saddling is meaningless with this kind of blind terror.
You are a really great horseman and a man of great knowledge and patience. thank you for allowing us mere mortals to watch, learn and shut the heck up!!
What a different horse at the end from when he stepped into the arena. Not sure what had been exposed to before he came to you. It is always harder to fix broken than to just train new things. He needs confidence in people. Building trust takes a lot of time when trust has been broken.
Good morning guys, great job as all ways Tim. thank you for video Tim & Melinda.😄
I loved to see how you resolved his panic. It is great to see how you calm a horse down.
I think that removing the saddle when he is relaxed allows him to to begin to create positive associations with the saddle and with you. I feel so sorry for this guy and his past experience with the previous trainer. How easily an incompetent trainer can maim a horse emotionally. So glad he is with you and praying he can overcome his past obstacles.
This horse is definitely not tame! Sad state for such a nice horse. Something really wrong here....glad you are taking the time to figure him out! He is in a panic.....to flat get away.....
I hate that he's so worried. You can tell he's smart and possibly treated bad before. As always you are calm with him and let him do what he needs to, to relax.
Unsaddling in the arena to help him relax out there and realize the arena is a great place to be? Will be interesting to see if he comes around. I had a AQHA mare that severely rubber necked and threw herself at the paddock gate when ridden she was so barn sour. I used to make her back up, side pass and do a ton of tight circles in the barn (on the ground) then lead her out into the paddock and just let her stand and relax. Once she understood the barn wasn't so great a place to be I'd have her out trail riding. Always got off and walked that last mile to the barn and made her work hard in the aisleway. She ended up low level dressage & reining and was easily ridden with a twine neck rope and no bridle at all.
He’s in blind terror. Glad to see he calmed down and focused. Seems the saddle has become a marker to him that indicates something bad is going to happen from a human and it sent him into a panic attack to try and get away from whatever he thinks is bad that is coming.
That was far from a blind terror. He never lulled the lead rope out of my hand. Look at the thumbnail. He's not even putting pressure on the lead line. Big difference than blind terror and very important detail.
He came this way one of two ways either some dude threw a saddle on him and jumped on his back and let him buck it out which traumatized him. Or some noob saddled him and he freaked out and they stopped working with him out of fear thus teaching him freaking out gets him out of work rewarding the behavior.
taking the saddle of was the reward for accepting the work you did ...and also by keeping it short to break down the training in baby steps to build his confidence, my boy was the same way one time and had to break down all the steps so he could understand - he was rushed too
I tend to think the previous trainer hurt him and he's nervous with people. Unsaddling him is rewarding him by ending the session on a positive note
I think unsaddling in the arena was rewarding, relaxing for him after he showed some improvement.
Unsaddling him in the arena was a total release of pressure. The reward for settling and a start to build trust?
To reward his good behavior at the end, the last thing he will remember about the session?
Good point about the females horse going to a male trainer. I as a female have tried to be consistent in getting my horse to respect my space and do what I ask. It surely is a process and sometimes I just need to be more tenacious.
Thank you for your videos learning alot.
Tim, this gelding seems to be in flight mode a lot. In the beginning of the session, he appears to so worried over almost everything. I agree that the saddle is not the problem with him. I feel that he lacks confidence and is not taking the human as his alpha. Even after you lunge him, he still seems to not decompress. I have no idea what feed or supplements he is being given by his owners. I'm wondering if his diet could be affecting his behavior? This is something that I experienced with a client's horse. The client's gelding was hyped up on high protein grain and alfalfa. Changing the diet of the horse that I was training helped significantly. After a few days of a new diet, the gelding was less hyper and more focused on me. I enjoy your videos because you are a trainer that looks for the cause of the problem to find a method to correct the problem.
“How poor are they that have not patience. What wound did ever heal but by degrees?” Othello
You have mastered patience, Tim! 😅
He has to learn that he won't get ramrodded everytime he has a saddle on him.
I'd say to allow him to be more relaxed about the arena. He really has something going on in his head. Possibly abused with spur and in mouth during a rough cowboy start? Stay safe with this one!
A reward for doing well and releasing pressure.
Your statement is proof again that horses are smarter than people you see horses can tell the difference between a man and a woman yet it seems that some people today cannot. Love your videos, Tim. Thank you very much for sharing all this great input and advice keep it up. It’s much much appreciated.
rude
@@cyndiann Truth...........
@@cyndiann it’s just a joke in a crazy world. I have many trans friends. For real.
Different scenarios for the gentleman 😊🐎👏
The arena becomes a place of comfort after work, instead of the barn.
Poor Banks, he looks to me to be generally scared of you/the saddle/whatever triggering either a memory or his imagination. You have the patience he needs. His owner was smart to hand him off to you for help.
I agree. Maybe let the horse just be a couple of months and then try, slowly. I find that walking with my horses helps tremendously. But most do not have time to walk, they have a horse to ride and not walk. Though walking can really develop relationship and trust.
He had his left ear on you like he was waiting to be busted for something
I believe that Banks has PTSD due to previous training 😢. Banks is now in great hands with you, Tim. ❤
Banks cocking that back leg a lot makes me think he’s doing it in an attempt to feel/look calmer. He is going to be a good horse when he is more confident and less scared
If the saddle is causing pressure then unsaddling gives release. Unsaddling in the arena instead of the barn gives him release in a different area not associated with the barn which gives him another relaxing safe place. If any of his anxiety is associated with arenas this can start to address that anxiety.
There is also the time angle. Having finished on an upbeat note it reinforces that good vibe and also does not give time for any negative happening as he passes through the barn to interfere with that good feeling.
Then there is the fact that having two pleasurable experiences (releases) together multiplies the effect of the individual ones separately.❤
Well done. Very well done.
I did not see the links in the upper right corner to his other videos. Great video and such progress!
Unsaddling wants to be positive for him and by extention where you unsaddle him. He was most reactive to entering the arena, so it is a better place than stressing him back into the more restrictive alleys. My best guess;) My Arabian had spent 6 months at a John Lyons trainer and we still had to start from scratch. You must work the horse you have not the one you thought you had. He was so dangerous and every baby step took three weeks. It could possibly been an operator problem. Lol. He is buried out by the old garden. I loved that horse and it turned out he loved having a family and cows to round up.
Congrats on reaching 28,000 subscribers. Well deserved.
Good video Tim. Appreciate your honesty in filming. This is more helpful than a whole lot of other things because you show progress in being patient and developing trust. He tries, just has some things to work through. Good job.
Awesome video
1. Reward 2. Safety
Nice work
I think your title says it all. He's still scared and a scared horse in a tight space is an opportunity for some surprises to happen. By unsaddling him in the arena, you give him more space to remove his fear of the saddle with less chance for hitting walls etc. while he's out of control. I've watched many trainers over the years and thought I was going to slow down on watching trainers but I greatly appreciate all you do and look forward to your next posting every time. I'm very eager to watch you help Banks find and then continue to find more relaxation. Thanks for doing what you do in the manner you do it.
You want him to associate relief IN the arena, not the wash rack. 👍🏼
I think it is a quick reward that he can tie into his successes at the end of his work.
What a job. Wow
He reminds me of the OTTBs that my mother used to get back in the 70s and 80s. Unfortunately, most of them had been so roughly handled that they trusted no one. She had one mare that had been so mishandled by men that she would shake when any man came near. Once you gained their trust, they were incredible, but it was a very slow process.
Thanks
Thank you
At 18:20, how he was looking at the rope and actively thinking/analysing before he slowly turned around to "untie" himself 💕💕💕
My guess is that the y saddling is a release or a reward, and he is being in saddled immediately, both to provide that reward for his participation the using his brain, and also so that he does not start to depend on a routine ( back to the barn and y saddle there)… and thirdly, perhaps so that he won’t always associate the arena specifically with uncomfortable pressure and work?
His facial markings augment his expressions.
Unsaddling now to make sure it ends on a positive note. If you try to get him back to wash bay first there could be a spook or slip or something since he's still tense about the saddle.
You are unsaddling in the arena to reward him for his willingness to relax and think instead of panicking.
He's scared to death of everything. Waiting for 'the next shoe to drop' so to speak.
because it is a good association for the saddle/arena
Safer in the arena and finishing on a good note.
❤❤❤
To get reinforcement for being good where he worrie (to think it's a good place to be)
Has this horse been struck in earlier training?
Banks seems like one that was either lunged/round penned before every ride or one that rider got on and bucked him out every day.
yep you called it when he bowed up in the cross ties! Oh, yeah, you've got his number. This one will be fun:}
Letting him de-compress. Create confidence. End session with positive. As spooky as he is, myself, would not want him in cross ties right now.
SAFETY
I love your work and have learned a lot. I would try putting blinkers or blinders as you say in US on Banks to see if it makes a difference to his reaction to the saddle. He might have an issue with one (white rimmed) or both eyes that is distorting the look of the saddle. Just a thought! Best wishes from south west Wales UK
to get him to be ok with standing still no matter where he is; saddled him there so unsaddling w/o the cross ties reinforces that
What I like about your training is you don’t use physical force (whipping at them, pulling their mouth or jumping on them) to intimidate a horse into their role, you let them know you see the problem and work to help them solve it. No need to whip a horse when you understand what they are communicating. Very similar to how some indigenous tribes worked with their horses.
My thought on why you unsaddled Banks in the arena is, when he entered the arena, he lost control of his mind. He had been very stressed walking out from the wash stall. To me, he finally lost it when he entered the arena. When he began to buck, you kept his feet moving to help him work through his panic. As he calmed some, he was lunged and was asked to start thinking about change of direction cues. When he settled further and was able to use his mind, he was asked to find the answer to the feel on the halter by following his nose around. When you finished that exercise, he had calmed significantly from when he first entered the arena. I think unsaddling him in the arena at the end was to leave him with a positive experience in what was first a very scary place to him. Next work session, I'd think it would help him be less concerned about being in the arena.
This magnificent looking lad was short stepping in a weird way and very tense when leaving the wash rack area so figure he hasn't worn the saddle much at all, and is scared of other horses and open spaces. Perhaps he's spent the majority of his life in a stall or on his own. He appeared to be relaxed enough, even enjoying being groomed - until he set eyes on a body-less horses mouth and eyes peering at him from the left.
I think unsaddling in the arena was both a reward and a release for him as well as teaching him that being on the end of a lead in the arena is not a bad place to be after all.
How did he react going back to his stall?
Good confidence in the area. So build on that as a positive place.
Unsaddling in the arena after a successful session might carry over to saddling in the stall in his thinking. To help him put his confidence and trust in you? To look to you for what he needs, to trust you with his comfort and ease from anxiety.
Questions from a non-equine person. What is a cold back horse. And when you tell the horse to move his feet, why? Putting him to work? A punishment? Giving the horse time to think? I really am a fan, I’ve just never had a horse! I learn a lot, Thank you.😊
I think I’m right here…a cold backed horse is one that feels the cold of a saddle or saddle blanket on his back and doesn’t like it. Fine high bred horses are more likely to be affected. They can arch their back and buck like this when they have a severe reaction. Many horses tighten up and ‘blow out’ when they know the girth is being tightened because users have tightened the girth too tight and too quick previously. This becomes an inconvenience to the rider because the saddle gets loose some way into the ride.
Moving his feet asserts the person’s leadership. It’s using the herd’s way of communicating.
And it is a little bit of all those things you said, putting him to work, punishment and giving him time to think. After that as Tim says he’ll want to find a better way and that is to stop and use his head and accept Tim asking him to do stuff.
@@MegJones7 Thank you for the answers. Very helpful! 🙂
Cold weather has him a bit more frisky 🥶
He doesn't trust people, or really want to relate to them in any meaningful way at all, does he? He's worried about _something_ , whatever it is.
my guess: you unsaddles in the arena because he is getting relief in the place that troubles him
I would say , because he was starting to accept you, and what you were asking. He had learnt you weren't going to hurt him and was the most relaxed he'd been , after thinking the arena was a scary place.
So you take the saddle off there, where he will associate it with feeling ok.🙂
If you took him back to his stable with it on , and he got scared, you would have lost that trust you were building in the arena. Then you would have had to go back and start again. 😬
There was a pony that came to the barn I boarded at, sold as a Connemara, but looked more like a very small Quarter Horse. But the important part was that his Little Girl loved him, and he always behaved for her. But he was very different when it came to worming, vaccines, and the farrier.
I came into the barn one day and Little Girl had brought friends. Pony had a kid on every corner with groom brushes, combs, etc., and Pony was totally comfortable with all this. I reached and got his tail, to show whatever kid how to start at the end of the tail to work out the tangles, and Pony kicked out. I told the barn owner that Pony is afraid of adults. Knowing the problem gave the BO and anyone else dealing with him what they needed to do going forward.
I don't know who told the owner that they were a horse trainer, but I am one of those people that would have called this pseudo-trainer up and gave them an earful.
Unsaddleing in the wash rack may start bucking or he associates the arena is ok because he gets rid of it.
He’s beautiful.
My observation, he looks at you and his head and inside ear are tilted toward you when you lunge him. He came to you.
He’s very stiff in his movement and he takes the weight off his right rear leg a lot.
Maybe a professional farrier needs to take a look?
Safer too as not confined area
You guys should set up some cameras in the corners of your outdoor riding area so that when the hand hel filming isn't available you can switch to that or you can show things where the horse is blocking the view.
he has calmed down so you are rewarding him with taking away the saddle...Seems to me like he is remembering something bad. :(
To make the arena a more agreeable place..
I bought a very green horse, a 10 year old Gypsy Vanner stallion. I trained him myself for a few months since I used to train horses a long time ago but wanted another trainer to ride him to see how he did. I found a trainer in my area who happens to be a male. My horse is usually very calm but acted like had never been around people before when this guy came to ride him. We tried a few times but decided it wasn’t really helping with the training so I’m on my own again.
So he doesn't Cary the stress or asoseation of the saddle and the arena and to give him confidence that he's OK.
In the arena, more room and less pressure than in tighter spaces.
Rushed along just a bit in the previous barn?? 🙄
Unsaddling him in the arena allows the horse opportunity to move his feet if his nervous or unsure and needs to be corrected and keeping you the trainer safe. It also gives you an opportunity to work with him on the saddle to see if he’s got any spooky points or unsettling . When a horse is worried, being tied they can cause panic when he’s unable to move his feet and see what’s going on around him. The objective is to have him relax with human, movement around him keeping safe in the process.
I unsaddle in arena most of the time since I ride mine by myself… it’s a good mental thing for a them.
He swivels his ears all the time. A sign of nervousness? Trying to learn about his surroundings ? I’m glad you said that the blowing was because he was still worried, I was going to ask that too. Was it still that he was worried when he snorted after you were lunging him? Thanks😊
I think of 2 reasons. One ,it gives more room for you and the horse incase he panics and two, he'll associate the end of the training as a pleasant experience .
At one point he looked like he was going to run over you. How would you handle a horse that charges ? Thankyou for the videos
Poor Banks. This was cool to watch though.... I had not seen you use one line alone to turn the horse, then just stop there, and observing the way he came to look to you with more confidence just in that small step was really nice. Great illustration of your "improvement" goal. As i watched, though, i started to feel bad for Banks's owner. If i sent my horse away and he came back messed up in the head, I dont know if i could ever forgive myself. Not knowing what happened to him would mess me up. I know that's irrational. It's not the owner's fault but not sure i could get over that if it were me. Really glad Banks has you now.
Because you wanted to end on the best possible note with him so that next time you go to work with him he will have a good memory of you as leader?
I'm assuming he's been checked physically ... no pain issues, no mineral or other deficiencies that could impact him either physically or neurologically. Noticed some tendency to bunny hop the lope initially. Wondering if he has been tested for PSSM. Tying muscles (especially in the back and hinds) from the glycogen loading can make carrying a saddle painful initially. Of course, lunging will get the glycogen back into circulation. As he gets more comfortable physically, the anxiety and fear melt away. Simple changes in diet, adding magnesium, etc will ease symptoms considerably.
For what it is worth, I think he was just rushed so much in his training and is scared and really has no idea what is expected of him? Once he gets some slow, consistent training where he has the time to learn something before progressing to more , I think we will see him gain confidence and hopefully calm a bit. Robert may have an interesting first ride? Ponying off Bob will help.
Unsaddling in the arena is a reward and since he is calm and somewhat relaxed it kind of reinforces the saddle as a good thing.