I enjoy when you give us background on these players and others. Makes the AoE scene more interesting knowing a bit about the players and personalities.
I avoid battling with the initial Scout because it's the only unit which can auto-scout! Even when I'm doing a Feudal Age Scout rush that first Scout is somewhere else just scouting. Probably in the right corner.
@@hirvielain9013 my starting scout usually spends its last moments chilling out next to my opponent's sheep under their TC. I don't know how I manage to queue it there every time but I find a way
Hearing t90 make the signal sound just makes me think what if we’ve been calling hoang by the wrong name all these years and he was just trying to replicate the signal sound
Songsong played really well but it's pretty obvious that it was a civ win. Hindustanis after the introduction of ghulam are top 3 for me. The ghulam production in castle age forced slam to abandon arbalests and go for champions which takes much longer to research and amass since he had already gone for crossbows.
Post Imp Vikings are just weak. Specially in team games, if the game goes Post Imp, they are just helpless against civs like Mongols, Saracene, Celts, Hindustani's, Almost all elephant civs with Khmer as speciall mention. It just does not matter how much resources you have.
that eapm spike is at the moment around 42 min in game when Songsong was moving the handcannons away like crazy to get out of castle range. In which he accidentally walked in.
More than often we see the player with horsies winning these type of games. They make all the difference in AOE games. You really should make horsies with vikings also. To snipe siege or for mobility in raiding. Even if they are weaker, you don't need gold. In this game song Song used his units really well. But the horsies was game winning move in my opinion.
So the elite ghulam is like an elite eagle warrior, except with +2 pierce armour, +1 attack, and +15HP. Also in a civ that gets insane camels and HC. Plus fully upgraded Hussar and skirms. And BBC. And cheaper vills. How long until they nerf them???!
I think you should look at the FU variant of both units to truly compare them. Pierce armor is equal then as Indians don't get the last infantry armor upgrade (+2 for Inca FU Eagles), Hp stays the same (Mayan Eagles have 100 HP in comparison to the 75 of the Ghulam though), Attack as well (Aztecs have more thanks to Garland wars). Furthermore Ghulams don't have the bonus attack against cavalry and one less melee armor which results in them being hard countered by heavy cav. They are cheaper than Eagles though but need castles to be produced. Eagles are also a bit faster.
It hurts badly to not see chieftains researched in this game. I get that it's pretty expensive, but the minute the hussars started rolling in, it should've been priority #1 because you know it's gonna be a lot of cavalry from that point onwards.
@@Infinite_Jester Viking doesn't have hussar, elite skirmish, or even halb. Then they should at least have a powerful power spike in the castle. But there's no such thing... Viking, it seems, is a victim of dev trying to give meaning to the infantry line. Even though they deleted Viking's strengths and made them an infantry only civilization, dev didn't even strengthen infantry properly.
@@__lim494 I think it's a good idea to implement buffs incrementally (i.e. make infantry from useless to slightly-less-useless, then buff them a little bit again a few months down the line when you have new data sets). This way you avoid making something overpowered overnight and fundamentally disrupting game balance. And finding the right balance will probably take just as long either way. Infantry do still need to get buffed though. As for Vikings: Vikings have the worst tech tree in the game. They have the second most expensive unique unit (only Ethiopian siege onager with torsion engines is more expensive to fully upgrade) and it doesn't even trade cost-effectively against any cavalier that gets a civ bonus, never mind paladin. Now without thumb ring, Vikings don't have any reasonable answer to heavy cavalry. Pikemen with +4 bonus damage to cavalry? Get out of here. Chieftains is also insanely expensive to boot. Monks with *checks notes* none of the important monastery upgrades? It's really just a defensive civ that has to end the game in early imp with siege ram + arbalest (which it can do due to the eco bonus). That gets really boring. At least with thumb ring you could meme a bit, like go cavalry archer in castle age (missing bloodlines and husbandry). All other infantry civs have some useful buff to infantry that forms their identity (Japanese halb shred cavalry, Malians and Goths can counter archers, Aztecs get amazing eagle warriors). Vikings get a big fat load of nothing and are forced to play into substandard archers. I guess it's still a good civ on water/hybrid maps that have large bodies of water where fire ships are less useful.
@@Infinite_Jester Considering the old slump of elephants, infantry lines, HC, I think it's time for Dev to take a radical buff. They've been of no use for *T O O* long. Anyway, I agree with most of what you say!
26:55. Actually Hindustanis +2 range, +1/+1 armor HC beat Vikings Arbalester. However, Sonsong didn't make 2 armor upgrades and +2 range. Without 2 armor upgrade, even Skirmisher can't kill Arbalester.
Ghulam was the reason this game all of a sudden became interesting, it gives an opportunity to escape the dull Xbow meta. Before that the game was just a mutual boom situation, slam went for textbook meta. (Not even committing to an early ballistics.
I just started playing AoE4 last week and its my first AoE game ever, this video kinda makes me feel like playing AoE2... Arghh which one should I focus on learning...
I feel like Berserks instead of Champion would've been a better unit pick? It was still really good anyways. With the poor unit control from song and greedy overboom, I thought he was done. But then it all started unraveling for Slam in late imp when Vikings really struggle.
i havent seen the video yet but im assuming if songsong was playing anything other than the Gurjaras it wouldn't have gone on nearly as long as it did.
I enjoy playing Hindustani but they make me think "powercreep". Older civs like Celts, Teutons, and Vikings have such limited options and bad matchups compared to the newer Hindustani and Gurjaras.
@@dirkauditore8413 If by "older civs" you mean Franks then sure, but adding new civs that constantly one up the predecessors is a never ending cycle that I don't think is good for the health of the game. Old civs and new should just be balanced- simple as that.
Good game, sure. Exceptional? Eh. The expected happened and it didn't seem that close. Also, Hand Cannon cost has literally never changed. I implore T90 chat to actually tell him the next time he says that.
@@shadowoof6473 Too many factors for a comment, but the basics are they made a great offer, Twitch going a weird direction and didn’t give a damn, and the future of a content creator is always uncertain.
@@T90Official Sad to hear about Twitch going weird. I’m trying to stay away from Facebook as much as possible. For consumers it’s not the best place to be. Hope I can see your streams someday on a platform that treats viewers AND creators well. For now I just stick with the UA-cam videos.
In a linguistic sense, yeah. But in the contemporary sense of that time, they were called ghulams to serve as cannon fodder for the elite troops. That's kind of...reflected in their 3/6 PA.
every time I see song song go out with those bombard cannons I just cringe. he loses them every time. sometimes they don't even get to contribute. I don't understand why throw away 225 gold a pop like that.
Sir Indian infantry is very heavily agressive with elephants and Rath or chariot archers that they have to add and also add elite elephants of North Indian are the strongest Persian camels are the best but aoe2 don't make game that much realistic compare to west civ though unbelievable injustice done to Viking and celets specially Viking axemen And Ghulam means slave warrior there is no slavery in India coz it's ban due to religion and other reason thats the reason there is a stupid caste system it's most idiotic prepare game
The overboom to 160 vils was huge, he had so much wood banked that he dropped a ton of production buildings, which made the difference between his trash spam vs slam's champions.
Would love to see economic aspects of the game revamped. Transportation of goods; gold, stone, wood, food should be a complete system. Order units at the barracks? Unit costs 100 wood? 1. A villager has to cut 100 wood at the wood-line. 2. *Wood gets transported to the barracks.*
This game is over a month old but we forgot to upload it... Not sure how informed I sounded on the Hindustanis but I recall this being a banger!
glad to see it made it. i thought it was a great game and am so happy to see it hit the youtube
I enjoy when you give us background on these players and others. Makes the AoE scene more interesting knowing a bit about the players and personalities.
ua-cam.com/video/QcnWrE55KH8/v-deo.html He is asserting his dominance.
For your next Challenge video, you could play with cube mod against a 2k player.
"both using their scout, the unit that the majority of players lose 7 minutes in to a town center..." I felt personally attacked
I avoid battling with the initial Scout because it's the only unit which can auto-scout!
Even when I'm doing a Feudal Age Scout rush that first Scout is somewhere else just scouting. Probably in the right corner.
@@hirvielain9013 my starting scout usually spends its last moments chilling out next to my opponent's sheep under their TC. I don't know how I manage to queue it there every time but I find a way
both sides REALLY duel it to their max, truly is a very exciting matchup to watch!
who can click barracks fastest simulator
@@Carter-dv4hz who can click keyboard faster
@@lunaria3710 Hera is the fastest
Hera fastest!
the scout at 7:40 was just standing there looking disapprovingly until red runs away in shame
Hearing t90 make the signal sound just makes me think what if we’ve been calling hoang by the wrong name all these years and he was just trying to replicate the signal sound
26:08 That treb though 11
Songsong played really well but it's pretty obvious that it was a civ win. Hindustanis after the introduction of ghulam are top 3 for me. The ghulam production in castle age forced slam to abandon arbalests and go for champions which takes much longer to research and amass since he had already gone for crossbows.
Post Imp Vikings are just weak. Specially in team games, if the game goes Post Imp, they are just helpless against civs like Mongols, Saracene, Celts, Hindustani's, Almost all elephant civs with Khmer as speciall mention. It just does not matter how much resources you have.
TLDR: 40:22
That one second of lapse by blue and gg
Hussars are ridiculous. Why do they trade so well with champion
The Hindustanis are a trade civilization. They know how to trade.
Viking player did not have chieftains, also infantry line is still underwhelming despite all the buffs.
7:50 Scout is asserting dominance.
Another new bonus for Hindustanis was that Gunpowder units +1/+1P armor
Thats a lot combined with the +2 range
They need a nerf
This is an INSANE game
So we can say Hindustanis is the best defensive counter civ, they literally have every counter for all units
that eapm spike is at the moment around 42 min in game when Songsong was moving the handcannons away like crazy to get out of castle range. In which he accidentally walked in.
More than often we see the player with horsies winning these type of games. They make all the difference in AOE games. You really should make horsies with vikings also. To snipe siege or for mobility in raiding. Even if they are weaker, you don't need gold. In this game song Song used his units really well. But the horsies was game winning move in my opinion.
Yeah, i've observed that too. In super late game the player who uses hussar/light cave often wins vs the player who does not
This video is a brilliant showoff of soft and hard counters. Love the content!
I am still very curious about what the guy meant by T90 ever being cheap 😂
I just find civs without bombard cannons harder to use and I think the had a hidden effect in the background taking down the castles
So the elite ghulam is like an elite eagle warrior, except with +2 pierce armour, +1 attack, and +15HP. Also in a civ that gets insane camels and HC. Plus fully upgraded Hussar and skirms. And BBC. And cheaper vills. How long until they nerf them???!
I think you should look at the FU variant of both units to truly compare them. Pierce armor is equal then as Indians don't get the last infantry armor upgrade (+2 for Inca FU Eagles), Hp stays the same (Mayan Eagles have 100 HP in comparison to the 75 of the Ghulam though), Attack as well (Aztecs have more thanks to Garland wars).
Furthermore Ghulams don't have the bonus attack against cavalry and one less melee armor which results in them being hard countered by heavy cav.
They are cheaper than Eagles though but need castles to be produced. Eagles are also a bit faster.
It hurts badly to not see chieftains researched in this game. I get that it's pretty expensive, but the minute the hussars started rolling in, it should've been priority #1 because you know it's gonna be a lot of cavalry from that point onwards.
i think he woulda run out of gold either way, which is mostly why slam lost
Eagle-Hand cannoner combo is awesome
feels like old times, but t90 enthusiasm and laughter are missing........
Slam put sooo much energy into that scout... apm 1000... wtf?
APM spike was partially from when he deleted vills
So op civ. No clear weakness
Vikings is also in kind of an awkward spot right now.
@@Infinite_Jester Viking doesn't have hussar, elite skirmish, or even halb. Then they should at least have a powerful power spike in the castle. But there's no such thing...
Viking, it seems, is a victim of dev trying to give meaning to the infantry line. Even though they deleted Viking's strengths and made them an infantry only civilization, dev didn't even strengthen infantry properly.
@@Infinite_Jester Honestly, at this point, I think dev is praying for the player to use infantry for no reason, instead of giving it a proper role.
@@__lim494 I think it's a good idea to implement buffs incrementally (i.e. make infantry from useless to slightly-less-useless, then buff them a little bit again a few months down the line when you have new data sets).
This way you avoid making something overpowered overnight and fundamentally disrupting game balance. And finding the right balance will probably take just as long either way.
Infantry do still need to get buffed though.
As for Vikings: Vikings have the worst tech tree in the game. They have the second most expensive unique unit (only Ethiopian siege onager with torsion engines is more expensive to fully upgrade) and it doesn't even trade cost-effectively against any cavalier that gets a civ bonus, never mind paladin.
Now without thumb ring, Vikings don't have any reasonable answer to heavy cavalry. Pikemen with +4 bonus damage to cavalry? Get out of here. Chieftains is also insanely expensive to boot. Monks with *checks notes* none of the important monastery upgrades?
It's really just a defensive civ that has to end the game in early imp with siege ram + arbalest (which it can do due to the eco bonus). That gets really boring. At least with thumb ring you could meme a bit, like go cavalry archer in castle age (missing bloodlines and husbandry). All other infantry civs have some useful buff to infantry that forms their identity (Japanese halb shred cavalry, Malians and Goths can counter archers, Aztecs get amazing eagle warriors). Vikings get a big fat load of nothing and are forced to play into substandard archers.
I guess it's still a good civ on water/hybrid maps that have large bodies of water where fire ships are less useful.
@@Infinite_Jester Considering the old slump of elephants, infantry lines, HC, I think it's time for Dev to take a radical buff. They've been of no use for *T O O* long.
Anyway, I agree with most of what you say!
26:55. Actually Hindustanis +2 range, +1/+1 armor HC beat Vikings Arbalester. However, Sonsong didn't make 2 armor upgrades and +2 range. Without 2 armor upgrade, even Skirmisher can't kill Arbalester.
The meaning of Gulam is 'Slave'
Hearing the term “pro” while crossbows lose to mangonels
21:15 T90, all infantry is good against eagles lol
Ghulam was the reason this game all of a sudden became interesting, it gives an opportunity to escape the dull Xbow meta. Before that the game was just a mutual boom situation, slam went for textbook meta. (Not even committing to an early ballistics.
“You’re with the Father now.” 1111111
lmao. yes
I just started playing AoE4 last week and its my first AoE game ever, this video kinda makes me feel like playing AoE2... Arghh which one should I focus on learning...
Personally I think ao2 is better and less confusing to play
Awe Epic game, and i loved all the raids!
I feel like Berserks instead of Champion would've been a better unit pick? It was still really good anyways. With the poor unit control from song and greedy overboom, I thought he was done. But then it all started unraveling for Slam in late imp when Vikings really struggle.
i havent seen the video yet but im assuming if songsong was playing anything other than the Gurjaras it wouldn't have gone on nearly as long as it did.
fun fact: he DID play anything other than the Gurjaras
@@Lokii_tr just put on the game to watch before bed... i goofed up identifying the civ icons
Damn that was dope
Simply exceptional. 👍
Hah! Graaaaay!
@@louislepasdesecheval3395 no u
I enjoy playing Hindustani but they make me think "powercreep". Older civs like Celts, Teutons, and Vikings have such limited options and bad matchups compared to the newer Hindustani and Gurjaras.
Well, tbh older civs have dominated the meta for too long.
@@dirkauditore8413 If by "older civs" you mean Franks then sure, but adding new civs that constantly one up the predecessors is a never ending cycle that I don't think is good for the health of the game. Old civs and new should just be balanced- simple as that.
my game freezes every 10 seconds.. it’s very noticeable but only lasts a second. Do you know of anyway to fix it?
So frustrating to see someone play the vikings and not make use of berserks. That would probably have turned the game the other way.
sniper HC is sooo fun. maybe they should lose the gunpowder +1/+1 armor, or maybe 1 of the 2 range
Good game, sure. Exceptional? Eh. The expected happened and it didn't seem that close.
Also, Hand Cannon cost has literally never changed. I implore T90 chat to actually tell him the next time he says that.
So he no longer streams on twitch?
Nope left 9 months ago! Time flies 11
@@T90Official What made u wanna switch to FB? I don't see their platform lasting long outside of FB influencers and mostly mobile games
@@shadowoof6473 Too many factors for a comment, but the basics are they made a great offer, Twitch going a weird direction and didn’t give a damn, and the future of a content creator is always uncertain.
@@T90Official Sad to hear about Twitch going weird. I’m trying to stay away from Facebook as much as possible. For consumers it’s not the best place to be. Hope I can see your streams someday on a platform that treats viewers AND creators well. For now I just stick with the UA-cam videos.
small trees is cheating
Gurjaras & Hindustanis are awesome.
they are unbalanced crap
Gulam meaning slaves right!?
In a linguistic sense, yeah. But in the contemporary sense of that time, they were called ghulams to serve as cannon fodder for the elite troops. That's kind of...reflected in their 3/6 PA.
every time I see song song go out with those bombard cannons I just cringe. he loses them every time. sometimes they don't even get to contribute. I don't understand why throw away 225 gold a pop like that.
Upvote if you want a T90 signal sound mod
Sir Indian infantry is very heavily agressive with elephants and Rath or chariot archers that they have to add and also add elite elephants of North Indian are the strongest Persian camels are the best but aoe2 don't make game that much realistic compare to west civ though unbelievable injustice done to Viking and celets specially Viking axemen
And Ghulam means slave warrior there is no slavery in India coz it's ban due to religion and other reason thats the reason there is a stupid caste system it's most idiotic prepare game
You should out the civs and players in the title..
Them hussar won SongSong the game imo
The overboom to 160 vils was huge, he had so much wood banked that he dropped a ton of production buildings, which made the difference between his trash spam vs slam's champions.
Remove relics from the game.
When a gold unit dies it drops gold.
Villagers can collect gold.
Select villager > Right click body > Villager loots body similar to hunting boar.
Would love to see economic aspects of the game revamped.
Transportation of goods; gold, stone, wood, food should be a complete system.
Order units at the barracks?
Unit costs 100 wood?
1. A villager has to cut 100 wood at the wood-line.
2. *Wood gets transported to the barracks.*
Is it possible to do curved walls and just overlay them on A0EII?
I hate housewalls.
I bet people would use walls if it wasn't such a pain in the ass to make them work right.
Sorry, but this is boring game cause Hindustanis OP, so Slam had no chance to win
2,400 ELO??? Geez, can ELO go any HIGHER? 😲 OMG, this will be a treat! 🤗
Thanks, T90. 🙏
M 🦘🏏😎