I hear hardware unboxed are consulting the pcb/vrm review king. Also as always your views contribute heavily in my decisions on what to buy. This is what I am looking at getting and hope it is quality built guess I will watch and see
Your videos should be a standard for EVERY tech tuber. You sir are the only person who even shows the actual hardware for any length of time (That I've seen). Therefore, I get to see for myself. And with your tutorial, I get more out of your video than every other video on UA-cam combined of ANY topic! Thank you.
@@waking00one I don't watch GN. They just don't seem like my type of people. Too much hype and always trying to sell merch. BZ seems to be doing the hard work. They have a working relationship and could be paying his tuition for all I know though, so I try to be respectful. I just think he deserves more, and I give my views accordingly.
@@Pyreing Ugh, why do people always go there? If you like it, watch them. I don't, so I don't. I believe in fair compensation. I would have zero problem with BZ making a decent living off it. Because his primary drive seems to be just getting his knowledge out. Too much of YT is people who don't really have the expertise depending on production quality and gimmicks to game the system for money. But I honestly don't know enough about GN to be too harsh, so I really don't want to directly insult them too much.
the power color has a really nice cooler, i think they nailed it at the targeted price point. the nitro+ will have to be something special to beat this one.
Why does only one of the Micron memory chips look somewhat freshly produced? It's like they took the GDDR6 chips from the defect RTX cards with space invaders artifacts and re-used the ones they found to be "fine" on Navi or something. :)
I have this card. I really love it. Runs my games at 2070mhz at 52-56 Oc and 82 Oc on max spot. Even just setting +17 power and a fan curve of 65% -75% in games and moving boost clock up to 2100. Easy life now gaming in 1440p at 110- 169 fps in cod warzone 200 man battle royals. Im only running a little 3600 ryzen with it and cl18 3600mhz mem which I plan to switch to cl14 next month.
Vmem capacitors you could remove and mount from other side of the pcb Also J4101 seams to be connected to 2 voltage dividers right below it, so it might be mod friendly
maybe he got confused, the Sapphire Pulse has 7 phases and he had just reviewed that, he maybe mixed up the facts. Bitwit Kyle mentioned that the Red Devil has 10 phases though
Huh, Igor said it was a true 7 phase with 3 phases doubled... Also, I know you're going at this from an overclocker's perspective, but the fact that you say this has great efficiency is interesting. Computerbase found bad efficiency, especially at idle.
@@DrathVader They compared it to the reference 5700XT so same chip. Reference uses like 7W in idle and the Red Devil 17W. Idk, that's why I asked. Igor i usually on point with his VRM description that's why I'm confused.
by igorsLAB - 10 voltage transformer circuits. The PWM controller can also technically only control a maximum of 8 phases, as is the 10 real phases complete nonsense. The PCB is based on the basic design with 7 phases. www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/pb-ir35201.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjexJWIjYjkAhVQ3aQKHbxHArQQFjADegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw3fAkiIvoFL9RTGK1jG3Z_b What surprised me is the fact that on the back 5 Doppler are installed. Then there would be only 5 phases, each with 2 connected voltage transformer circuits. I counted the phase shifts at the 10 PWM nodes and, funny enough, they were 7 different and 3 identical. It can thus be called a 5- or 7-phase design, but not 10 phases. Converter circuits unevenly phases (german translated to english by google) (Sometimes Picture without testing is deceiving) But still a fan of Actual Hardware Overclocking.
It's even more funny that the Strix has a great PCB but a cooling solution that is worse than every other custom design released till now. Especially if you look at the price.
Mohammed Najirul Islam not likely... every 7nm products seems to be very owerclock limited by nature, because these try to use the power and temperature limit as much as possible so there just is not room to manual owerclock... unles you go to near zero of subzero temperatures...
@@haukikannel The voltage is locked by the Driver to 1.2V for the GPU core, lets talk about the memory now, same Micron memory on Turing run at 1750mhz (14Gbps) stock and can overclock upto 2Ghz or higher (16~Gbps), while navi is at 1750mhz (14 Gbps) stock and struggles to get past 1800mhz (14.4Gbps). It seems the driver still needs work, Navi GPU is plenty fast, but its memory is not, navi is bandwidth starved.
All the vram I've seen on 5700XT has been micron. They seem to do a better binning than others, making their vrams harder to OC. Samsung and hynix does a softer binning. Perhaps making them better possibility to memory OC?
Hey Bill I heard that windows has a limit on the frequency on the registry. I heard people can undo that so they can raise the frequency what about lowering the voting age on the GPU and then unlock the AMD frequency from the Windows registry.
I mean, AMD said they provide reference kits to their AIBs but noone has any use for the blower design, so maybe theres a reference board for axials and everyone uses that? Edit: Also, couldnt you put the memory vrms chokes and caps on the back of the board to make the ln2 pot fit?
Asus made a big deal of machines doing most of the manufacturing a while back. Is that a big benefit? Are you able to tell how the PCB was made from how it looks? Asus needs to drop the strix cooler on lower end cards. Don't know why all these guys insist on taking on the cost of new designs. Just do little things like no rgb on lower end ones. And better PCB of course.
I've seen some memory OC's stop at 900mhz with the samsung memory that the reference cards came with. I've seen reviews saying the micron memory can hit 950mhz.
Can you do a Sapphire 5700xt pulse one and compare between three of them (Sapphire, Powercolor, Asus and maybe Gigabyte one which gaming OC review start to come out)... Right now AIB fan performance it goes like this... ASUS Strix = Powercolor Red Devil > Sapphire Pulse > MSI Evoke I wish to know which has the best PCB. Guessing will be ASUS but with premium price I really dont want to buy ASUS one. And Powercolor seem to cheap out PSB quality a bit. So I am on the edge to buy Sapphire Pulse (Really cool thermal solution according Gaming Nexus tear down). Please for the love of God, Buildzoid... I want to make my decision already...
Hey buildzoid, what do you think of anandtech's findings of the Asus pro ws x570 ace Mobo having very, very adequate thermals? As compared to your claims that the heatsink was all aesthetics and not functional?
@Florian Oprescu one downside is realtek lan instead of intel but as long as it works i'm cool with it. I went with 3600 + MSI b450 initially. That did not work out.
@@phlixcarbon memory certainly is also a bottleneck. But the gpu drops off gaining so little percentage after a certain speed too. We need big Navi not hbm2.
how are the Quality of the Components are they good enough for Operating this Card Longer then 4-5 Years ? And why Powercolor only gives 1 Year Warranty dont they trust in their Products Quality?
I think that's why most of us are waiting for Thicc, because it's so simply beautiful. Will match literally every build, which is a thing for me, cause I have windowed case.
@Reynaldo Hill Watch out on Gigabyte. They usually do decent cooling, but sometimes they need release v2, because they didn't bother to add cooling on memory etc. I think they are most sneaky out there, so be careful with them and wait for legit reviews, not random ones :)
Buildzoid please HELP ME... For Rendering, a Msi b450 tomahawk can randle an 3700x with the stock cooler? If not, should I buy a 240mm water cooler or use that money on an x570 like Gigabyte Gaming X?
Did you try the tool found on Igor's Lab to overclock Navi cards yet? I saw one of his videos about it and notice now there is also an english version available now. www.igorslab.media/morepowertool-amd-radeon-rx-5700-und-rx-5700-xt-tweaking-and-overclocking-software/
I have their Vega 64, which is really good. Except it has coil whine. :D Powercolor has rather good designs but not so great component quality. Sadly. On positive note, it can run 1620MHz@1.05v rock stable.
@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking Agreed on that. Saw one SuperMicro mobo with that issue, tho for end user, not server. But Powercolor really doesnt use that category. :D Its just lacking quality testing. I think they even replace it under RMA, if one asks.. well and is first owner I guess.
Only PCB is great, but cooler itsels is equal even with Pulse, which is shame. Totally not worth buying. Like you said, Gigabyte or Palit 2070S is way better choice in Strix 5700 XT price.
ua-cam.com/video/JXTdArIvggI/v-deo.html (Powercolor..The True KING 2290MHz...) : D Don't complaint because XFX & Sapphire nitro+ RX 5700 XT got threshold limit OC model GPU Key Lock.. That is why both THICC II RX 5700 XT & Sapphire nitro+ RX 5700 XT (Max 2110MHz) is not the King of all GPU anymore...xD include Asus RX 5700 XT Strix OC too.... "PowerColor is still the King of all RX 5700 XT"
just one take
PagChomp
did you mean the 7970?:p 7790 is ancient ;p
Like a boss
Aint gotta lie to kick it. :)
Are you going to be making an RX5700XT reference design PCB breakdown? I am still really interested in it
I love these man. It helps me make more informed choices and spending my money better.
Thanks for making these!
8:40 "we all know i love unnecessary capacitors"
Nadji Djebari I’m a bit of a noob, but he said he could *add* capacitors to boards. Is this possible? And what function would it give him?
@@hantzleyaudate7697 ua-cam.com/video/2rqPlVprhoU/v-deo.html
@@hantzleyaudate7697 short version : to reduce voltage fluctuation. long version : ua-cam.com/video/YJWqsL9qfNw/v-deo.html
but be careful, adding wrong capacitors can perturb job of entire circuit...
I hear hardware unboxed are consulting the pcb/vrm review king. Also as always your views contribute heavily in my decisions on what to buy. This is what I am looking at getting and hope it is quality built guess I will watch and see
The benchmark and monitors Kings *
Your videos should be a standard for EVERY tech tuber. You sir are the only person who even shows the actual hardware for any length of time (That I've seen). Therefore, I get to see for myself. And with your tutorial, I get more out of your video than every other video on UA-cam combined of ANY topic! Thank you.
are you doing the shaphire pulse for Gamer's Nexus?
I certainly hope not. That would mean I wouldn't see what he has to say about it, and that would be a shame.
@@mikaelgaiason688 literally what
@@waking00one I don't watch GN. They just don't seem like my type of people. Too much hype and always trying to sell merch. BZ seems to be doing the hard work. They have a working relationship and could be paying his tuition for all I know though, so I try to be respectful. I just think he deserves more, and I give my views accordingly.
@@mikaelgaiason688 Shame on GN for trying to make money off of youtube right?
@@Pyreing Ugh, why do people always go there? If you like it, watch them. I don't, so I don't. I believe in fair compensation. I would have zero problem with BZ making a decent living off it. Because his primary drive seems to be just getting his knowledge out. Too much of YT is people who don't really have the expertise depending on production quality and gimmicks to game the system for money. But I honestly don't know enough about GN to be too harsh, so I really don't want to directly insult them too much.
Probably my next GPU if the RX 5800XT doesn't come before the end of the year...
Me too, unless i succumb to peer pressure and get an nvdia card instead
That feeling when Buildzoid breaks down and recommends your new mobo and GPU among the best of the new models.
the power color has a really nice cooler, i think they nailed it at the targeted price point. the nitro+ will have to be something special to beat this one.
I have a Sapphire R9 FURY Nitro in my rig at the moment. Considering building a new rig in November with this GPU.
Yeah, nearly silent at full load! Me like :)
Was just thinking of picking up this card. Your timing is on point.
Everyone has gave this card great reviews. I don't agree on this one, it looks like a card to get. It will be my next one.
@@johnnygreene4658 my case isnt big enough anyway
@@TheSchantz3 dang, that sucks.
@@johnnygreene4658 Eh, I knew what I was getting myself into. The Meshify C is a great case, I'll just get whatever the best dual fan card is.
@@TheSchantz3 Hope you can find something you like at a great deal. Good luck.
Need to see if the memory timings are as screwed up as previous AMD GPU's, that limits the memory crazy bad on lots of cards
Why does only one of the Micron memory chips look somewhat freshly produced? It's like they took the GDDR6 chips from the defect RTX cards with space invaders artifacts and re-used the ones they found to be "fine" on Navi or something. :)
Igor from Igors Lab says it really a 7 phase. Who is wrong?
I suspect both are correct in different ways.
I have this card. I really love it. Runs my games at 2070mhz at 52-56 Oc and 82 Oc on max spot. Even just setting +17 power and a fan curve of 65% -75% in games and moving boost clock up to 2100. Easy life now gaming in 1440p at 110- 169 fps in cod warzone 200 man battle royals. Im only running a little 3600 ryzen with it and cl18 3600mhz mem which I plan to switch to cl14 next month.
Everyone stop buying this card goddam it; just went from instock to out of stock now after Build Ziods video
@6:20 Maybe Sapphire Toxic edition?
Vmem capacitors you could remove and mount from other side of the pcb
Also J4101 seams to be connected to 2 voltage dividers right below it, so it might be mod friendly
Finally I got a cool card that u have examined. So cool
It could be the memory controller. My gut says there's Infinity Fabric on the die and that's what's rolling over.
Jayztwocents released the red devil review some hours ago, in the review he said it had 7 phases. I think they got it wrong then!
maybe he got confused, the Sapphire Pulse has 7 phases and he had just reviewed that, he maybe mixed up the facts.
Bitwit Kyle mentioned that the Red Devil has 10 phases though
Early Squad Assemble :)
Alright where's the Sapphire cards already?! You're killing me. lol
Huh, Igor said it was a true 7 phase with 3 phases doubled...
Also, I know you're going at this from an overclocker's perspective, but the fact that you say this has great efficiency is interesting. Computerbase found bad efficiency, especially at idle.
Chip efficiency is not the same as VRM efficiency.
Also how do you even double 3 phases
@@DrathVader They compared it to the reference 5700XT so same chip. Reference uses like 7W in idle and the Red Devil 17W.
Idk, that's why I asked. Igor i usually on point with his VRM description that's why I'm confused.
Well that's 3 different vrm configs I've heard about this card.
by igorsLAB - 10 voltage transformer circuits. The PWM controller can also technically only control a maximum of 8 phases, as is the 10 real phases complete nonsense. The PCB is based on the basic design with 7 phases.
www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/pb-ir35201.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjexJWIjYjkAhVQ3aQKHbxHArQQFjADegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw3fAkiIvoFL9RTGK1jG3Z_b
What surprised me is the fact that on the back 5 Doppler are installed. Then there would be only 5 phases, each with 2 connected voltage transformer circuits. I counted the phase shifts at the 10 PWM nodes and, funny enough, they were 7 different and 3 identical. It can thus be called a 5- or 7-phase design, but not 10 phases. Converter circuits unevenly phases (german translated to english by google) (Sometimes Picture without testing is deceiving) But still a fan of Actual Hardware Overclocking.
At least they are not downgrading the reference model like they did with the rx 480 red devil., Which was a fiasco
1:43 ahh
So you mean they will be
*_A CHOKING HAZARD_*
Out now --->
It's even more funny that the Strix has a great PCB but a cooling solution that is worse than every other custom design released till now. Especially if you look at the price.
Didn't they lazily reuse the cooling from their RTX cards?
@@dunkmaster1564 I guess that is the case.
There could be a possibility that amd is limiting overclocking via drivers
Mohammed Najirul Islam not likely... every 7nm products seems to be very owerclock limited by nature, because these try to use the power and temperature limit as much as possible so there just is not room to manual owerclock... unles you go to near zero of subzero temperatures...
@@haukikannel The voltage is locked by the Driver to 1.2V for the GPU core,
lets talk about the memory now,
same Micron memory on Turing run at 1750mhz (14Gbps) stock and can overclock upto 2Ghz or higher (16~Gbps),
while navi is at 1750mhz (14 Gbps) stock and struggles to get past 1800mhz (14.4Gbps).
It seems the driver still needs work, Navi GPU is plenty fast, but its memory is not, navi is bandwidth starved.
As nice as the Strix PCB is, the cooler's kinda garbage. Guess it's not relevant if solely thinking about LN2 though.
Aretak wow you understand this ? 😂 no offense
Do people use LN2 for their daily needs like gaming and productivity?
@@hantzleyaudate7697 the strix card is basically what people who do that buys
There would be a mod for ln2: the choces and the caps are though-hole ones, so desoldering and resolder from the back
I thought the reference was 7 phase also
turns out I'm blind and it is a 7
I wonder why some X570 boards support only 64 GB of ram whilst others support 128 GB ?
All the vram I've seen on 5700XT has been micron. They seem to do a better binning than others, making their vrams harder to OC.
Samsung and hynix does a softer binning. Perhaps making them better possibility to memory OC?
Ironically most reports point to micron being better on these for oc.
Hey Buildzoid, you did not mention what the doublers are, but I assume that they are IR 3599s?
Go to techpowerup review and see the high res shot of the back. If you squint a bit, you'll see they are indeed IR3599
Yeah im abit late to the party but i believe thats not a dual bios switch - its OC / low power switch ...
Hey Bill I heard that windows has a limit on the frequency on the registry. I heard people can undo that so they can raise the frequency what about lowering the voting age on the GPU and then unlock the AMD frequency from the Windows registry.
Please review the PCB of the red dragon!
Get Ready for the Powercolor RX 5700 XT smalbrush
Gigabyte 5700 xt gaming oc next?
These PCBs are really short.
Thats the future.. you never saw the fury x pcb or ? Thats short with those hbm stacking besides the gpu..
I mean, AMD said they provide reference kits to their AIBs but noone has any use for the blower design, so maybe theres a reference board for axials and everyone uses that?
Edit: Also, couldnt you put the memory vrms chokes and caps on the back of the board to make the ln2 pot fit?
Gets noti as I’m watching bitwits review on it
Asus made a big deal of machines doing most of the manufacturing a while back. Is that a big benefit? Are you able to tell how the PCB was made from how it looks?
Asus needs to drop the strix cooler on lower end cards. Don't know why all these guys insist on taking on the cost of new designs. Just do little things like no rgb on lower end ones. And better PCB of course.
I've seen some memory OC's stop at 900mhz with the samsung memory that the reference cards came with. I've seen reviews saying the micron memory can hit 950mhz.
Timmy Joe PC tech 5700XT waterblock OC
ua-cam.com/video/YznASrMMKCE/v-deo.html
@Keoal Kel these actually seem very vram speed limited from what I've seen from the oc tests
Can you do a Sapphire 5700xt pulse one and compare between three of them (Sapphire, Powercolor, Asus and maybe Gigabyte one which gaming OC review start to come out)...
Right now AIB fan performance it goes like this... ASUS Strix = Powercolor Red Devil > Sapphire Pulse > MSI Evoke
I wish to know which has the best PCB. Guessing will be ASUS but with premium price I really dont want to buy ASUS one. And Powercolor seem to cheap out PSB quality a bit. So I am on the edge to buy Sapphire Pulse (Really cool thermal solution according Gaming Nexus tear down). Please for the love of God, Buildzoid... I want to make my decision already...
Can I overclock the memory to 14,4Gbps?
Hey buildzoid, what do you think of anandtech's findings of the Asus pro ws x570 ace Mobo having very, very adequate thermals? As compared to your claims that the heatsink was all aesthetics and not functional?
the VRM on that board is really good. If your VRM is good enough the heatsink becomes unnecessary
@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking was gonna say.. don't most of the x570 come with good VRM already?
@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking so it's actually a decent Mobo? Regardless of the questionable heatsink design?
@Florian Oprescu I'm already running 3700x and Asus x570 tuf
@Florian Oprescu one downside is realtek lan instead of intel but as long as it works i'm cool with it. I went with 3600 + MSI b450 initially. That did not work out.
Hi buildzoid, would you tell us how to read MOSFET datasheets? and how do you compare two different mos?
This might hit 2.2ghz+ with a good bios mod.
GamerMeld channel did 2.29Ghz...
it seems like the 5700 xt is pretty limited to its overclocking wall. in that there is no performance above that wall except for in benchmarks.
Memory is the bottle neck imagine Navi + HBM would've been so sick.
@@phlixcarbon memory certainly is also a bottleneck. But the gpu drops off gaining so little percentage after a certain speed too. We need big Navi not hbm2.
Did you ever go to Taiwan?
Did you happen to find out the thermal pad thicknesses?
Do the pcb of the 5700xt pulse please ;)
Which board would last longer other than red devil as it would be difficult to find. I really need the longevity.
1:43
I guess you could call them a choking hazard :)
ayy lmao
how are the Quality of the Components are they good enough for Operating this Card Longer then 4-5 Years ?
And why Powercolor only gives 1 Year Warranty dont they trust in their Products Quality?
They offer 2 years if you are in the US and Canada as well Europe. Not sure about Asia.
hey zoid, what the missing components are usually for?
Do AMD gpus not use memory straps/resistors for RAM configuration??
so which one out of 5700xt are the best in your eyes
This vs Sapphire nitro+ which one to chooseee ??
What about the Sapphire pulse version?
If the Vmem capacitors are in the way for a LN2 pot, since they are through hole, could you solder them on the other side of the pcb?
I like everything about this graphics card except the "DEVIL" logos, they look so creepy.
Powercolor will most likely do a slightly lower end version called "Red Dragon" with a similar, but less metallic, cooler on it.
I think that's why most of us are waiting for Thicc, because it's so simply beautiful. Will match literally every build, which is a thing for me, cause I have windowed case.
I like how it looks on the backplate but not on the side... It feels a bit too much like a hot topic shirt logo, super tacky imo.
They should do an alternative color Oni design
@Reynaldo Hill Watch out on Gigabyte. They usually do decent cooling, but sometimes they need release v2, because they didn't bother to add cooling on memory etc. I think they are most sneaky out there, so be careful with them and wait for legit reviews, not random ones :)
I LOve THIS GPU !!!!The Shroud is Awesome !!!!
Buildzoid please HELP ME... For Rendering, a Msi b450 tomahawk can randle an 3700x with the stock cooler? If not, should I buy a 240mm water cooler or use that money on an x570 like Gigabyte Gaming X?
Slapchop back???
got a 5700xt fet shorted inductor got damaged for vcore its r15 but whats its current rating
what are those white/blue things next to the vrms?
Skip to 28:15
Hi. Can you tell me where to make a shunt on zotac rtx 2080 ti amp extreme?
Did you try the tool found on Igor's Lab to overclock Navi cards yet? I saw one of his videos about it and notice now there is also an english version available now.
www.igorslab.media/morepowertool-amd-radeon-rx-5700-und-rx-5700-xt-tweaking-and-overclocking-software/
So is AMD gimping the memory?
where do i getthis rx ohnothebrushistoosmall? i want it
Damn it. It said uploaded 2 minutes ago. how am i not first?
What is j401 for ?
I have their Vega 64, which is really good. Except it has coil whine. :D Powercolor has rather good designs but not so great component quality. Sadly.
On positive note, it can run 1620MHz@1.05v rock stable.
because it had coilwine ? every gpu can have it..
Every graphics card has coil whine. Just don't let your games run at a ridiculously high frame rate. Like 200+
Actually really high end, high current chokes tend to be the whiniest because they are designed for server applications where noise is not a concern.
@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking Agreed on that. Saw one SuperMicro mobo with that issue, tho for end user, not server.
But Powercolor really doesnt use that category. :D Its just lacking quality testing. I think they even replace it under RMA, if one asks.. well and is first owner I guess.
@@DenGuleBalje Far from it. Its considered defect.
omg
The thing is…
Look at U; little Ziod almost got 100K SUB's
What is the best 5700 and 5700xt card ?
I start saving cash for those gpu
Strix one is probably the best but best budget is probably the sapphire pulse
can I send this and other pcb breakdown video to bilibili.tv(one of the Chinese video site)?
you should give everything a score at teh end of the video. =)
Please no, scores are awful.
Two minutes notification on my cell phone. Fourth in the comments. 23👍on the likes.
Sorry I disagree this time, this looks like a great card. Wait until you actually have the card before you state an opinion.
The strix is such a nice card but for the price, the 2070 super is a much better deal.
Only PCB is great, but cooler itsels is equal even with Pulse, which is shame. Totally not worth buying. Like you said, Gigabyte or Palit 2070S is way better choice in Strix 5700 XT price.
@@BOLOYOO cooler is miles worse than the pulse even from what I hear, the memory Temps are dire while the pulse has grest ones
ua-cam.com/video/JXTdArIvggI/v-deo.html (Powercolor..The True KING 2290MHz...)
: D Don't complaint because XFX & Sapphire nitro+ RX 5700 XT got threshold limit OC model GPU Key Lock.. That is why both THICC II RX 5700 XT & Sapphire nitro+ RX 5700 XT (Max 2110MHz) is not the King of all GPU anymore...xD include Asus RX 5700 XT Strix OC too.... "PowerColor is still the King of all RX 5700 XT"
Oh, another first comment ;)
1:59 yea, Radeon is trash
5700XT "real price" 370$, if more, better to buy 2060S or 2070