unfortunately most people only get a small idea about someone else before they lay blame in a failed relationship. Covert narcissist are very good at spinning it so the co-dependent appears to be the person with the problem because they are so reactive. Just because a person appears crazy does not mean they are, it could mean someone is driving them crazy and the real perpetrator is the person acting like the victim.
+Mel morr Well said!! Perfect!! Thank you for speaking on my behalf as well. The wife is a very borderline, under the radar empathy deficiency disordered little lady with the anger of a 7' 300lb. marine and she can always sleep like a baby after blow-outs?!!
Such a great point. I have a narcissitic father, who did eventually drive my mother crazy. Made her feel inadequate and like she was never doing enough or living up to his standards. She was the one who appeared volatile and out of control and so he could use this against her. He was the rational, emotionally in-control parent. He could manage his own image perfectly. But now as an adult, I completely understand why she was so frustrated, angry and reactive. I feel the exact same way in relation to my father now.
I SO AGREE with the original comment here! I have been observing, experiencing & thinking on this for years. in the last few years I've been sharing my thoughts with other people, to not just blame the crazy acting person in a relationship which they observe, because it's usually the squeaky wheel who's being pestered by the other person. Like two little kids in the backseat of the car where the one who Haulers is the one who gets yelled at by the parent while it is actually the quiet one who is sneakily punching the other one and getting away with it.
OMG, I am a Codependent, NOT a Narcissist!! Secretly in shame, I thought I was and was conditioned to believe so! I am in tears now! Words can't described how relieved and grateful I am!!! I AM fixable! Thank you so much for the clarity, Rob Rosenberg! God bless you!
You have to become selfish for your own survival against a narcissist.... and no guilt .... that is the survival .... it is learned.... and makes you defeat them.......
It's TRUE, after 22 of marriage to a covert narcissist I have put my foot down, assert myself and get my needs met, though he always says no and objects to everything.
I was raised by extreme narcissists and feel like i need a psychological black belt just to function at a decent level...TY for your work...very helpful
Thank you. I am a codependent who has been abused and gaslighted by multiple narcs throughout and my life. During conflict with narcs, I frequently begin to act like one...I hate it. I've been worried I am or will become a narc. But I definitely am codependent. I feel the pain of others almost too much, latching onto all-consuming people through caring for them emotionally. I've done this all my life and it opens me up to a lot of heartbreak. Wish I could stop. I love making people feel good, and so easily manipulated by abusive people.
Me too! Can two recovering codependents start up a healthy relationship? We should try. I don't care about your age, looks or wealth, as long as you are kind and loving by nature; not just using those traits for manipulation purposes! >>> I used to think of myself as a "giver" and an "empath" (now I know I used the term "empath" incorrectly). I reasoned that a giver and a taker (Codependent and pnarc) were sadly doomed to fail, but I always assumed that a giver + giver WOULD work. >>> I just kept getting tricked by pnarcs who pretended to be givers and I never got to test my theory... I accept my half of the responsibility for being attracted to the wrong types. How can I recognize if someone is conning me or really loves me? I'm learning all the time, so I'll be getting better at that value judgment as time goes by... I may get it wrong again, but I'm convinced it's possible that one of these times, I WON'T mess up... maybe my NEXT relationship will work. ANY VOLUNTEERS?
@@marthamacanalee1716 I don't know how to do that kind of a search. I don't know that I would be able trust the "results". If I ever find someone else, I'm afraid the only way to know if she is a narcissist is to try again and observe the results. I may not be able to find the courage. It's not an issue until I find someone else to go out with. I hope my fears won't scare her away before we can even find out. We will see.
@@251omega ditto! Not willing to chance it yet. I do want friends, though. I am starting from scratch so I think that is my best bet for now. That way I can get tested without the heartbreak
I refuse to get involved with people who love to hurt others, when they hurt others they'll hurt you as well. I don't want to be a part of that vicious cycle.
@Christine haugh. I am with you. I don't like to see people hurt in anyway, that includes emionally, physically or mentally. The narc revels in others being hurt or hurting in any way. I know I was married to one [him) FOR 23 years. He was extremely mentally ill and I could never get away from him until I started a divorce and 6 caring, living people helped me get free of him. Everyone that finally got away from him and free, went in to be successful including me. Just remember, the person who is in emotional pain is the one who always wants to leave any relationship to relief the hurt and pain they are experiencing.
Don't like to see ppl get hurt But.. a narcissist I find I can make exception. Used to be empathy for others but after narc abuse.. must put up barriers.
What if the narc tells you stories about them being the victim, whether true or not. I guess you need to learn how to all the right questions to vet them.
This was a breakthrough for me. I have constantly been made to feel like I'm selfish and that all I do is complain, when all I've done is stand up for and demand to be loved the way I deserve to be loved. I have been abandoned and rejected by every major person in my life, and am now in the education stage of learning all of this and putting the pieces together. I am very direct about what I want and will communicate it in every way possible, and I did become an active co-dependent. I cannot get the emotional connection and empathy because this person lacks it and has harmed me greatly. I had CPTSD all of 2016, a complete break in self esteem, and cried every single day. It is a lot to process all of this, but I'm happy to finally be coming out of the fog.
It is a lot to process, I wish you a wonderful future, I am in a similar place, I am still suffering with cptsd symptoms and I lack the words necessary right now. My trust in myself has gone, major doubt, I don't know who that girl is in the mirror, she looks broken, I can't explain to others why I keep cancelling plans im just terrified of going outside. So I don't know what the future holds or if I'll ever get better but I just can't and won't give up, deep down inside us we know that we can handle anything that comes our way. Much love your way x
I have a memory of trying to snuggle with my mother when I was very little. I have a flashback of her coldly responding, stop clinging to me like a leech. I stopped looking for hugs. Then I once overheard an aunt asking my mom, what happened to S, she used to be so affectionate, and my mom said innocently, I don't know, she just started getting cold. I wanted to scream and tell the truth to my aunt, but I was too afraid to do so. That is what I can remember. Lots of my childhood is blank, I don't remember it. My mom didn't have an ounce of compassion in her. She was cold. I still can't picture her lovingly holding any of us siblings in her arms as babies. It seems alien. My mom never said I love you, and hugs were non existent in my house. I don't know if she was a Narcissist or not (She didn't seek attention, but isolated us all except for brief family get togethers at holidays), but later I did get hooked by a covert narcissist. She gave me the love I always wanted (mother in law), but I didn't find out until later that it was all fake. She had all the classic symptoms of a Covert Narcissist. Growing up in my home led me to have sympathy for the underdog. I knew what it was like to be unloved, and felt sorry for them. The Covert Narcissist used this to get me hooked. I have learned a lot through it all. I am trying to learn how to still have compassion on others (because I fear getting deceived again), but balance it with setting healthy boundaries and not being so gullible. It is a process. But, I am finally free from the Covert Narc. My husband is healing from being the scapegoat in his family and we are trying to learn from our mistakes and move on.
Sue S Me too. Always rooting for the underdog. In sixth grade I I broke up a fist fight after school because it was over and he kept pounding on kid. The next day the bully beat me up. I went home with a bloody nose and black eye and got, “ Well mind your own business next time.” I mean I’m so bad that if the losing team catches up and gets ahead I’ll switch teams.
This is exactly what I needed, thank you. I thought I was a narcissist because of this projection from my mother. My husband isn't a narcissist but I projected my mother onto him for years... So when I started recovery I believed my husband was abusing me, but he wasn't... It's so strange how the mind works. Now I'm working on my triggers, to stop reacting to my husband the way I would to my mother...
they learn, what works, what they can use, how it suits them, how it hurts you or gets them the attention they crave, if not yours then those they can set against you. they learn... you're the lesson. and once they see a brighter road you'll be dropped like a pebble by the road. no regrets, no tears, no nothing you're obsolete and you were but an 'article' to begin with (though they will make you believe otherwise) just never knew it bright side? now you do.. brighter side? they can't heal (at best have a good run) you can...! cheers
+ NORMALIZATION OF IGNORANCE That's not very uncommon of narcissists. Always trying to improve their tactics and how to prevent being found out, they do read stuff and watch videos about narcissism. I have watched other videos where they leave comments, and there are not so few of them around here. BUT: When they comment, they accuse others of not being sympathetic, of how they DESERVE love like anybody else, how other people are failing them because they stigmatize them, how people withdraw from them selfishly etc. Once you know the signs, you detect them immediately. The other type of narcissist that comments is rather rare. They somehow know they are abusive but cannot change it.
I believe a Narc Would ask probably out of curiosity of your response,or the expert intelligence you produce,to test if you can sense they are.psycho Analysis.
Actually, I got involved with someone who said they were a narcissist, how else would they have gotten through a Harvard ! And their argument to me was was "so you have problems with narcissism, and I have problems with intimacy" Now, I thought narcissism by definition excluded intimacy! My question is, will narcissists admit to being narcissists??? Even proudly.
@@hypnogermaphobe well it was a heads up, but shortly thereafter the criticisms, judgements, attacks came in and claiming to be a victim of my negligence. I am grateful for the heads up and that it wasn't months down the road, only 5 weeks. Just a chilling deja vu. I hope the last.
8:52 - 13:00 The Narcissists makes the target turn against (doubt)himself/herself. Criticizing the target/victim incessantly to make them feel bad/wrong. That is the shortest synopsis of the manipulative Narcissist.
I am an extreme introvert, and a lot of relatives of mine (who among them even a psychiatrist) accused me as a snob narcissist, and I was so hurt, I lost my self esteem completely, until a friend of mine told me that a true narcissist, never question themselves as a narcissist.
Anyone who call someone else narcissist are usually one. I never call my narcissist mother and sisters narcissist cause i know they have no clue about it!
Eyesofthebeholder 33 When I finally found that I'm simply an introvert who gain strength from being alone, I finally realized that I'm not evil or anti social, I'm just born introvert.
unelady2 Me neither! Only after reading and watching video references I understand that. Like gaslighting, triangular etc, I realised, oohh.. that's what they've been doing to me!
You may have been force to be an introvert to protect yourself. I did, I was always alone and kept living my friends and parties to go be alone. When I told my therapist that I was even going out in storm during winter and was less afraid of being outside in a blizzard then inside with my siblings at a very young age (under 7), she told me I wasn't an introvert but had found this way to protect myself. .
Thank you so much for doing this video !! I'm a Narcissist magnet it seems. My ex husband was a Malignant Narcissist. Constantly criticizing me and judging my achievements even though he could not do what I was capable of doing. He criticized my appearance. Constantly trying to improve me. To the point that I felt I couldn't leave the house unless EVERYTHING about my appearance was as perfect as it could be. If I didn't have perfect skin , manicure nails, great outfit etc. If everyone didn't comment to him how beautiful I was he was actually angry. I lived a decade of my life trying to live up to this impossible expectation of me. I worked out 6 to 7 days a week maintained a size 2 dress size , only to be told I would be perfect if I didn't have big legs. Or anything he could make me feel insecure about. My mother who I've adored all my life is a covert Narcissist in my opinion , I still to this day try hard to please her. She has many good qualities but has the power to make me feel terrible if I disappoint her. My best friend I believe is an active co dependant which feels like Narcissism because she is so absorbed in herself and her problems. She also is very critical of my appearance. If I look good when I see her she comments I'm overdressed. Always looking me up and down. Just extremely focused on finding flaws. I DO NOT ever criticize her. My current husband is also critical less focused on my appearance but picks at my other habits ,. If I forget to shut a bedroom door , or unload the clean dishes etc. I have read and listened to so much information about Narcissism that I started to think fear that maybe I am also a Narcissist because I will occasionally manipulate my husband, mother or best friend or ex husband to avoid their criticism and disapproval. THIS VIDEO INFORMED ME THAT I AM UNEQUIVOCALLY NOT A NARCISSIST. 😊 Thank you so much for doing this video and ending my confusion and fear. God Bless you. !
Criticized for "big legs?" That's a plus in my book, and I think it is with most men. Voluptuous women turn more heads in public than slender ones. Your ex is a douche.
Remember lying my assignment off at the ripe old age of 4 or 5. The goal was self preservation. It was never safe to actually tell the truth growing up.
I've experienced this narcissistic game myself then I realized something that seems rather simple: while in the relationship, I was the one consistently giving. Whether this was caring for the other emotionally, physically (daily maintenance of the home, cooking, always caring). If I dared ask for help, I was quickly seeing the victim side of my partner. This is not obvious when this partner is calling you the nsrc. Beware, if there's no reciprocity (which a narc is incapable of in long term), they are gas lighting. period. Thank you for bringing it up.
I had a narcissist tell me, "A relationship is give and take. You do all the giving and I do all the taking. It's your fault because you won't let me help. You're a bad friend."
This is Exactly what happened to me. I was told over and over again that I was selfish if I ever tried to meet a need. So I've lived a life where I have felt guilty every time I try to put myself first. I can't ask for emotional needs. I just freeze up I still feel intense shame and guilt trying to meet my emotional needs. If anyone can advise practical advice please let me know Also I would love to bring this guy down to Australia This is urgent because I am starving metaphorically speaking
Thank you for your support of Ross's work! You can find more resources in Ross's blog: humanmagnetsyndrome.com/hmsblog/ and website: www.selfloverecovery.com/
Get a good therapist, first. Treat yourself well. I have come to accept that emotional needs may not even be met by the one I hoped would meet them... so I invest in friendships and activities that do help myself and restore my ability to give to others. I understand metaphorically starving. I have used the same term! God bless you. Move forward in hope.
@Trakman I feel your pain brother. Your experience sounds just like mine. At 60 yrs old, having been married to the same woman for 40 of those years I feel like I’ve wasted my entire life. I’m not sure what move to make, get out to try to build the life I’ve dreamed of or just put up with it and keep my head down to avoid all the drama. Though it seems the harder I try to go out of my way to keep the drama to a minimum is when it gets cranked up.
I was recently told that it's always all about me when I was attempting to communicate that my feelings had been hurt. It's taken me so long to figure out that my narcissists (yes, there are two) will NEVER hear what I am trying to say. I realize that they are incapable of perceiving the ways in which they contribute to the dysfunction, preferring instead to lay the blame on me. I know that I am a contributor and I don't like it. I've tried to reach out to both of them because I want the dynamic to change. One of them, my mother, hung up on me when I told her that I felt disrespected. The other, my husband, acted like he was really listening and then told me to go f*ck myself. More recently he told me that I am full of sh*t. These are their responses to statements which came directly from my heart, made calmly and sincerely. These people are beyond hope. It's like they have no soul and are dead inside.
@carriellbee OMG! This is exactly what has been happening with me. I thought I must have bad communication skills. I don’t ever open up anymore about my feelings. I just acquiesce and go along, meanwhile muttering inside my head, “I hate you!” It’s always, “do this or there will be he11 to pay!” And our 40 year marriage has been sexless for way too many years. I’m now getting the silent treatment because I didn’t plan a blowout vacation celebration for our recent anniversary 5 weeks ago. She couldn’t help with the plans? Why in need of a surprise? Places were barely open because of pandemic. I gave her a surprise blowout 50 birthday celebration 10 years ago. She forgot my birthday the first year we were married. No plans to give her a party this year at 60. Not holding my breath for a 60th for me this year, got nothing at 50 either. The harder I try the worse it gets.
I totally agree with this Ross. Co-dependents cannot be narcissistic. In order to survive having a narcissistic mother, I learnt to be dishonest and be agreeable to please her. This insidious, surviving upbringing was ingrained in me and led me into narcissistic relationships. She could at times be kind, very rarely. I learnt that if I told her I was ill, she would back off so I learnt to lie, so she would leave me alone. Any achievement I made, she would be instantly jealous, not pleased for me. My father said to me at 15yrs old, "take no notice of your mother, she's just jealous". I didn't understand it at the time and it hurt me terribly. If anyone out there had a narcissistic mother or father that made them feel less than, there's no bigger betrayal. It can take years to figure it out. Self love is an easy thing to say you need to do, a lot harder to get there. Keep going, coz you will. Never been religious, never read the Bible, but hell, been reading and studying it for the past 4yrs and boy it's helped me in strides. Thank you Ross for this video x
Not quite. I believe they feel they are a narcissist because of the way their parents brainwashed them to think that just having ordinary needs was excessive. The child's energy had to be completely devoted to the parents' needs.
I think compassion for "narcissists" as damaged humans is the way out. The fact you have said few, indicates you view them as "bad" and the codependent as "good". I don't want to invalidate your suffering here, I too had all of this bother, it sucks right. But i believe the idea of good and bad is at root in it, a fear of being "BAD" the want to be seen as good. I think freedom from this comes in understanding and viewing both conditions as "trauma" and this will allow you to free yourself to be objective. By no means want to invalidate whatever horrendous time you went through!!! Just sharing the painful often hard truth of the way out of this is acceptance, forgiveness, and understanding. You'll be able to love your torturer one day, that's the freedom, you might have to do it from distance though! Good luck. Love and compassion for all is key though.
Interesting, but I love my torturers and this is why I couldn't cut contact with them, my narcissist sister had to attack my children to hurt me since she couldn't make me outburst at her and that's when I finally cut contact, but I still feel love for her,and understand we both sick but still feel hurt too and that was 10 years ago.
I have a covert narcissist that is so sneaky that I mentioned your work (before o realized she was one) and all about my past experience with a narcissist that when I was “discarded” she remembered all if it and declared they were a victim and word for word the things I said about narcissists! They posted trying to educate their followers, saying they are a victim! It was utterly bizarre to hear someone describing things that she was doing to me, using information I gave her and saying I was doing it that I was the narcissist. They are ridiculously manipulative
I started as a passive codependent,& moved on to active codependent. Ive lived alone over 2yrs for the first time. Im 57 this August. Its been rough even had a n-stemi heart attack after the first year. The emotional trauma I was not prepared for. But I survived Im trying to learn to thrive and heal my soul...❤thank you for your videos
Ross, you are such an inspiration. You have changed the landscape of my life. I've had such a biography/pattern of choosing narcissists as partners. After a horrible and traumatic recent break up, I found your videos on youtube and had an immediate awakening. You're incredible. Thank you for all the good work that you're doing in the world.
This is me right now. It's so hard to walk away from him because I feel so bad for whatever he's endured in life...I feel like the narcissist...I blew up on him and was so emotional. I feel like I have ptsd.
I'm crying. Thank you so much for being emphatic about the point. So much self doubt clouds self image and even a slight gray area leaves the door cracked to greater depths of self doubt.
It's really difficult for me to watch your videos without being overcome by grief. Thank you for mentioning self love. It's such a foreign concept to me, but finally I'm beginning to understand. Thank you for answering that question and thank you for sharing this on UA-cam.
Sooooo, I just had my mind blown... and put at ease all at the same time... Ive been worrying for ages if I am a narcissist and have literally been avoiding all relationships both romantic and platonic because I thought I must be somehow very destructive without knowing how or why. It's been almost 5 years now....
I have been closing up all my relationship too, one to protect myself from the narcissists I always attract into my life and second to make sure I don't hurt others if I am a bad person. I have been following therapies for over 15 years and still sick. I was manipulated by my mom and my closest sister and they gas-lighting all my life. Stuck in between two narcissists I am a passive co-Dependant who taught I was maybe a narcissist too.
@FirstName Last they're predators.... And co dependents are their prey. Once you have awareness of your co dependant wiring you will be able to get the help you need which is healing your core inner child wounds. Underlying mental disorders stem from underlying trauma that has been suppressed and resides in your subconscious, which is in control of your actions, thoughts
A great book Ross. I'm in the middle of reading it atm. It has helped me understand why I have had narcissistic relationships over and over. Not only that I've discovered my parents are narcissist and co-dependent. Now I can see why my life has turned out the way it has. It's not too late, even at 56 to heal and change my life. Thank you Ross 😃
I'm a recovering codependent people pleaser with both parents that are narcissists. I think it's equally important to understand the counter-dependent. Every narcissist is counterdependent, but not every counterdependent is a narcissist. A lot of times codependent will go to the extreme of being a counter dependent. When we recognize our behavior we can bring into balance what is healthy instead of one extreme to the other.
Seriously dude, you are amazing. You are totally saving my life and probably my ass right now from two narcissistic sociopaths who are after me and I'm realizing if I would just let go of the anger and the pain my life would probably be a hundred times better
Codependents are not narcissists, that's true. But I think psychologists should start waring people that rage and unforgivness can lead to bitterness. And bitterness kills empathy. I've seen a few codependents cross over to the dark side due to staying in the anger stage too long. After all , narcissists just have a deeper disorder than the codependent, and the line of demarcation is empathy. Many codependents talk about the similar traits that they share with the narc, and prolonged anger, becoming caustic, leads to bitterness and a sort of switching off of empathy. IMO codependents *can* become narcissists with enough pain being cemented in their souls. A lot of narcissists *know* they are narcissists.
I also think that a step towards healing is to *admit* that trying to manipulate and control people is bad, whether we are passive or aggressive codependents. After all, isn't the control and manipulation the things we HATE the most with the narc? I took the greatest leap in my healing when I stopped thinking I was "the good guy". Yes I was a victim of narc abuse, but what entitled me to be manipulative and controlling like the narc? I came to the conclusion that I was simply walking in some bad traits that the narc had, and I needed to own them and stop. I started to practice kindness and humility in place of manipulation. I know it sounds hard, but I'm just saying what I found to be true inside myself.
@@tessw9744 Yes, I have witnessed this. Although I don't think she was truly either, my mother exhibited traits of both, narcissism and codependency. Allowing and putting up with long term emotional abuse in the relationship with my father, yet she was extremely manipulative, engaging in triangulation, always playing the victim and always so critical of me.
Yes,its,so true.I too have seen many coindipendents go over tho the dark side. They been bitter,angry ,and cynical ..I want to HEAL and DON T be like that..💜🤗💜
YellowRose Yes, because we are told to forgive, repeatedly, which keeps us from turning the hurt and anger into hate. Thankfully our belief in God keeps us on the right path.
Very often the narcissist will project all of his bad traits onto you, and do it so cleverly that he can convince everyone around you that YOU are the one with these traits. A normal introspective person (you) has to be awfully self-assured to stand up to this kind of external pressure. I mean, if all these people are telling you that you are this way, you would naturally have to wonder if you really are, and you just don't see it like they do!
story of my fucking life...... this same shit can be attributed to gender. people all my life telling me wHO I AM. wtf no. i tell YOU who i am sick of being convinced i'm someone i'm not i know who i am
+TylerJaden24 They will force their view of reality onto you as hard as they can, and especially if there are more than one of them, it can be really hard to hold onto yourself and resist the smear campaign. If you try to protest or defend yourself, you only feed into the false paradigm they've set up, and they use that to reinforce what they're saying about you to other people. It's frustrating beyond belief, and they play so dirty, they can leave you NO way to defend yourself that does not make you look exactly like what they say you are. There is also no way to explain this to people who are not involved. That only makes you look paranoid and defensive as well. It's the worst when they paint YOU as the narc, and their evil is so effective that they can almost make you believe it too. That little feeling inside you though, knowing that it's wrong, that it's untrue, false, unfair -- hold onto that; it's something the narc would never feel. The narc knows that what he/she does is dirty and unfair, and they love it. You know you don't love it, it's a hideous thing, you'd never want to be that way. That's your clue that you are not what they claim you are.
my narc sisters laughed at me everytime I talked about or bought a self help book for myself. I used to say to her, you can borrow the book and she used to say "why", "I dot need it" lol
I recently found and read Rosenberg's book and was blown away! I am in my mid-fifty's and ended my marriage four years ago (thank goodness) after 24 years of being criticized and ignored by my narcissist ex-husband. I twisted myself into knots to meet his needs and avoided any focus on what I wanted or needed. Just now realizing how much of myself I buried because I was told repeatedly that I did not deserve what I wanted or needed from him. I thought the marriage was the problem but now memories of my mother's words are coming to light. I was praised for compliance and staying quiet. My goals and aspirations were diminished with words of how I would embarrass myself for trying something new or why I was not the kind of person who deserved what I sought. It is rather frightening to have these recollections now as I largely buried these memories and now they are resurfacing. One of my very first questions to my therapist after my divorce was "maybe I am the narcissist?" As a true co-dependent I continue to feel tremendous guilt or "disloyalty" for even thinking about the negative impact my childhood had on the person I am today.
Thankyou, I really needed to hear that. Still doubts creeping in. I never knew narcissism was such a big issue let alone know what it was. Having clarity is so damn important.
My mother is the narcissist who has covertly abused me all my life, but she is also co-dependent - first to my abusive stepfather, and now to my abusive brother. I get that you can't be both a narcissist and co-dependent within the same relationship, but you can definitely be both with different people.
I was so brainwashed I couldn’t even comprehend what you meant by this video, until it clicked randomly earlier today!! Wow!! Exactly!!! I’m innocent! I was brainwashed, until now! These accusations are from all of the abuse. They’re lies. I’m not a mean manipulative controlling person
thank you so much for this video. you are absolutely right. I remember my ex would never even attempt to read Self help books even when I begged her to get help for her Verbal Abuse. I remember I would send her articles and book links but she just couldn't do it. when I accused her of being verbally abusive she would always say that I was the Abuser. that she behaved this way because I was too insecure and controlling. she always managed to flip the blame on me leaving me wondering if I was the Narcissist. thank you for this clarification.
Your ex was like mine we are below their feet to them. We are nothing. Our opinion does not count. They are the Master and in their mind we need to be a obedient slave. They reverse everything. They are mentally sick. Everyone watching this and searching for answers on here knows that deep down the person we care or cared for is sick and we just want confirmation from someone that what we are experiencing is not treatable but a complete waste of our time because we can't change this person. God Bless to all of you reading this!
@@LeeroyyyyyJenkinssssss Controlling and jealous. Oh, and how about that memory, huh? How dare us remember what they did yesterday! That's ancient history! 😄🤣😆 morons
I’m so glad I found this channel this guy makes so much sense to me !! I been asking myself this question a lately am I a narcissist I was with a narcissist for 20 yrs been away from him for 9 thank goodness but it changed the person I was almost sucked every bit of life out of me literally
dear Mr.Rossberg...thank you soooo much for starting the exposing & discussing of the subject of narcissm...u r a true Pioneer & life Saver...thank you Sir....I am also so happy that you are getting so good & smooth at the rhetorics..because u r the true source of help at this subject but only because your talking Skills were not as defined as that of Sam Vaknin or Ollie Matthews you were not a knowledge but you are soo getting there now...God bless.. much love..keep up your good work to beat the narcs at their own Game :-) :-) :-D
Wow!! Thankyou Ross Rosenburg for your razor sharp literally clinical analysis in explaining what you have to say. You deserve a reward for your work in this arena!! It is a system of confusion, anxiety, fumbling, crashing and in the end manipulating I have been working through not ever having understood what it was that has gone on first to putit in motion or to in anyway resolve it. It isn't easy to hear what you have to say when the injury from the beholden abuse is so prevalent! Your explanations become so much clearer from having come out of the fog from the set in place injurious nature from the affliction! And how clear they are. Thankyou!!
I strongly feel that underneath every narcissist is a codependent. Same as underneath every alcoholic or addict is a codependent. It’s always about love, self love and to get it it, if you didn’t t get it... you try to get it somehow
Narcissism and codependency lie on the opposite ends of a spectrum - like one of those old volume controls or digital displays - and we ALL lie somewhere on that scale (our human nature - genes, biology, intelligence, physique, looks, etc). A good childhood should leave us about mid-way, in balance, ready for life, but sadly that is all too often not the case and life (our human nurture systems - parenting, peer-groups, schooling, role-models, society, ideology, etc) can all play their part to upset that so both narcs and codeps, in fact all of us, seek to self-sooth our resulting inner discomfort with feel-good hormones like dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin and endorphins. Things like exercise, alcohol, cigarettes, gambling, consuming generally, socialising (think social media!), sex, self-improvement and projection, religion and even meditation* all generate these highly addictive but temporary 'highs'. Unfortunately 'success' in life today rewards self-discipline by delayed gratification combined with the determination to pursue more 'meaningful' long-term objectives. An evolving societal question is how these are then subverted by those tempting legitimate and illegitimate 'highs' along with the very unloving nature of our systems of 'nurture' because, let's face it, they're still not working too well. Meantime, as it always has been, calm and balanced acceptance of yourself is the place to be 😇. Ps. I forgot to mention *power and the (inevitable?) emergence of narcissism as a social phenomenon but let's leave that for another day 😉.
You just helped me understand who I am, who I’ve been, who I could be etc etc much more. It’s hard to put my experience into words. I was raised in what I now acknowledge as a severely narcissistic home. I’m 33 years old now and it took me becoming a single mother at 26 and experiencing living alone as a mom for 2 years away from my family to be able to even slightly analyze my upbringing and my past behaviors. It’s freaking crazy. And every time I think “I get it”, there is more. I’m not sure this fog will ever go away but I’m alright. This is what always confused me. I can now look back and see many years where I clearly behaved as a codependent in relationships. But I can swallow my pride and openly admit that I can always look back and CLEARLY see where I also behaved like a covert narc and an overt narc as well. ESPECIALLY during my teen years into early 20s. When I recognized that my father is textbook overt narc and my mom is extremely codependent yet also extremely narcissistic (she still confuses me), and I started to see these videos etc it started to click and over the years little by little it’s like I’m looking at myself through a bubble and figuring out who the hell I am is almost a creepy process! My father was and still is abusive. But in a way where we still get together as a family (lots of enmeshment) and just know how to co-exist. He is an overt narc, acted like a covert narc with us (the kids) when we were children until puberty age where I guess he felt more comfortable acting malignant? I was the scapegoat. My sister the golden child to the extreme that she has an Ivy League degree so forget it....my brother the flying monkey triangulated his whole life to hate and physically abuse me for getting male attention in my teens. To which then my codependent mom came to my rescue on a regular basis and made me her golden child out of sadness and basically made me codependent on her protection. While my brother was being raised to be physically abusive. All because I wasn’t particularly useful for my father. But I was the “attractive” one. However, BC my mom was against him showing my brother to be violent, I became the argument between my parents...and the “waste of space” of my dad. Long story short...it sounds appalling to admit this and I prob never will outside of therapy but in HS I acted like a disgusting narcissist. In the sense of getting attention for being attractive. My mom loves that and my dad hated it. It was the game they played. Then I started dating....I love bombed people, I discarded people. I even once became scared of myself and remember crying one day 6 months after leaving someone without remorse wondering why I didn’t have empathy. I didn’t feel anything! It was sick! Then into my early 20s I acted more co dependent. Probably BC I already knew what heart break felt like. Except I was extremely manipulative calculating explosive selfish and again, had zero empathy. I don’t know how people even dated me. Good people too! Then over the years I became more and more codependent but I still found myself acting narcissistic. Over time and with more and more heartbreak I started to “feel” more. Finally as a single mom and living alone I looked at myself in the mirror, on all the people I lost, I never cared to hold on to friendships, etc. I was alone. And I began to heal. And I still can’t figure out if I was/am a codependent narcissist that “saw the light” or wtf. But this video. It gave me one more puzzle piece. When you said that I was programmed to believe I was something I wasn’t. And it hit me. My dad programmed me to believe I was disgusting and useless and acted like a whore bc I was attractive and all I wanted was attention and blamed my mom for spoiling me and making me so “entitled”. That’s why he trained my brother to hit me for being this way. So...i think it clicked somewhat. Was I trained to act narcissistic? Like him! And then blamed for it?! My sister was trained to act narcissistic in a over achieving way and I was punished for displaying his bad qualities. This is sick. I don’t even know what else to write. This is clearly long and drawn out. I have never commented on anything in my life. But....not only has this made me confused some more, but maybe my own experience sheds light on people’s “research”.... And I think I can now clearly can say that yes...I was a narcissist. Because I was trained to be? But was truly codependent ? And I know this because every time I come across a narc I get emotional wondering if they are truly narcissistic or if they may be having a narcissist episode like me--which sounds very codependent. And this probably made no sense. But this is how disconnected we become from our true selves everyone. This is why instead of writing this in my journal, I’m writing it here. Thank you for all that you do. I’m a high school teacher, mom, and simply trying to finally get my life back. In a way I deserve and in a way that allows love to finally flow to and from me and anyone else I meet. Thanks
And yes. Regarding your first point about narcissists Not being Drawn to your videos, yes that is true, when I was experiencing this I would have never looked it up. But I posted what I posted to let everyone know that it is way way way way deeper than that and way bigger of the spectrum than anyone could ever imagine
Omg... I’ve even done this to people. Where if I think they are narcissistic I have told them that and sent them an article about it and left...only to return months later. But clearly I’m a codependent. This is making me feel awful. I thought I was close to being healed. But every time I think so I get smacked in the face with other realizations. I guess I’ll be looking up a new therapist.....I can’t even make sense of my own crap. Ridiculous.
I’m desperately trying to get away from an abuser and then label myself unforgiving because distance is the only answer with these crazies! Appreciate the video doc!
I am so happy I got to see this. I have been so hurt after seeing information on codependents being narcissists. I would never want to upset or cause harm to others.
When you said codependents let these aholes off the hook you just explained so much. I didn't have many things at all growing up and my mother controlled what I did growing up. Ballet, piano, sports I hated and I developed social anxiety and a whole range of insecurities from this insanity. I know I could have been a singer and that gift was wasted because of her wasting my time. She's been dead a few years now and I'm safe now to look at what she did to me. Over controlling parent is an understatement. I was the scapegoat and had 2 failed relationships. My next step is to be a hermit. She destroyed my life for her needs. I'll never be enough because she had me in her life for 54 long unbelievable years. The last words of hers came from the gravesite after the funeral. The final slap in the face. One of her flying monkees said to me "You know your mother loved you.". She fooled them but she couldn't fool me. I just wonder what was said about me to prompt her to even say such a thing. I only told her. "Yeah, I know" and walked away as fast as I could. All of her words I'll never believe. And I saw that smirk. Many times.
dude you have no idea how the first 3 minuets of this video helped me. i was so fucking convinced i was a narssisist and i felt so bad about it that i would just hide in my room and kick myself for who i am. i didnt realize that narssists warped our brains to the point of believing that were the selfish ones. thank you so much
You're wonderful, I love the eloquent way you effectively communicate. You break this nightmare down so precisely. Wish there were centers for women, AND men! Who've been emotionally abused by a narcissist; a sort of shelter, but more of a healing center, for victims who've been interviewed and who meet all the criterion of victims of narcissistic abuse, so they can heal, to some extent, and rebuild their lives. I know for me personally, and my two children - the narcissist's stepchildren, something like that would be a gift from Heaven, because, I have no support system, whatsoever. I made a big, HUGE mistake and I cannot undo the damage he's done to my now teenage children. He came into their lives about 14 years ago. They view him as a dad. Their biological father is a different kind of narcissist and we divorced in '06 at which time my children were 3 and a half and 5 years old. They show significant signs of trauma, have confusion around who they authentically are and my son especially, is showing signs of low self worth, no motivation, and he stays in his room with the door closed, 85% of the time. Thank goodness he doesn't lock his door. Anyway, thanks again.
I was a codependent during my years associating with Narcissists. I am glad I can use this video against anyone who tries to accuse me of being the “true” Narcissist.
Thank you Dr. Ross for your work. As someone who's been diagnosed as codependent, Borderline Personality Disorder, MDD, PTSD, GAD, and CPTSD, as well as suffered through addiction but got sober 9 years ago, and lived through a very traumatic childhood of sexual, emotional, and physical abuse that I had to normalize up until then, oh and a current psychology student in my graduate studies, I appreciate the work you do as you clearly have a purpose in life to help people end these abusive relationship patterns and seek healing and live a more fulfilling life. I enjoy watching your videos even though my own ideologies agree and disagree at times as I evolve through my own journey of healing and also maybe from having to watch dozens and dozens of video footages of psych evals which is how personality disorders became my own area of interest and emphasis of study. Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) is on a spectrum. All PD's are very much alike and are just a symptomology of unresolved trauma. I believe if you've been diagnosed with one, you can be diagnosed with any (except sociopathy which is a different disorder that should be classified on its own axis in the DSM). It's very dependent on who it is they're addicted to. They're all centered around addiction to their need. They're all trying to protect their inner vulnerable child. The labels do a major disservice because we cannot fit anyone in a perfect little box and identify them by some list of symptoms. It's not looking at the whole entire person. A person who has narcissistic traits can still be a codependent because we all have narcissistic traits. A codependent can be abusive, and so can a narcissist. A codependent can resemble a person with BPD. Borderline Personality Disorder. All 3 can be very reactionary and come off as lacking empathy when they can't hear what the other person is saying because they are reacting impulsively and lacking control of their emotions. I've come to learn that our partners and ppl around us are mirrors of ourselves. They're showing us things about who we are or who we're capable of being that we have not yet come to terms with and accepted by bringing out the good and not-so-good in us. The moment we realize that we should not be in a relationship with someone, that it's unhealthy or we are sacrificing too much or it's ruining our insanity and we are being manipulated, we are no longer the victim of that person but a willing accomplice if we stick around and allow the manipulation to continue in order to feed our own selfish need of needing to be needed. But that can also be the turning point of when we can start seeing things for what they really are and viewing the relationship from an observer position instead of an active participant, and we can began our process of detachment. What we are a victim of, is our unresolved childhood trauma and dynamics we grew up in that became our blueprint or pattern for our adult relationships. I've seen codependents put their kids through hell and drag them through the mud over their emotionally turbulent relationship with their spouse or partner. They have an addiction and have irrational fears of abandonment just like a BPD. They lack self love so how is it can they love their child the way their child needs to be loved? If they cannot protect themselves from the insanity, how can they protect their kids? I understand that in having to detach and heal, sometimes we need to hate the demons in someone. But eventually, we need to come to terms with the demons inside of ourselves and accept who it is we really are, if they are ever going to break this relationship pattern. It's possible to do so without having to demonize our partner and go on campaigns that dehumanize their narcissism. What narcissistic person, whom is already a scared child inside trying to protect their vulnerability to great lengths and suffers from low self esteem, is going to want to even seek help or gain a little insight into their rationalizations if it means they got to confront they are a vile, worthless, human being who can't be helped? That's just not the case. Anyone narcissist who isn't truly suffering from a fragile ego, who didn't suffer childhood trauma and truly doesn't hate themselves inside, and can honestly and maliciously hurt people while not in a reactionary state, is not a narcissist. They are a sociopath. And sociopaths who are correctly diagnosed as sociopaths and are not really narcissist, is a completely different Ball Park because those are the ones who are born the way they are. Narcissists, Codependents, BPD's, they are not born the way they are, they are made by their childhood experiences and trauma. Narcissists, in my honest opinion going off of my studies in my psych major and outside of school, and self examining my broken thought patterns and behaviors throughout my life and my relationship dynamics, they are just as damaged and traumatized as the codependent. As I embarked on my journey of healing my broken thought patterns that brought me abusive relationships and heal my childhood trauma, I not only had (and continue to have) to accept the codependency in me, I had to accept the narcissist and the borderline in me as well. It allows me to turn these liabilities into assets and not let these traits of my personality control me. It helps me practice love for myself when I can accept myself, the desirable and the not-so desirable parts of who I am. My advice to anyone is, if you're at a place where you're ready to recover and heal, which it's a life long journey of recovery, and your partner is NOT, then start thinking about how you're going to leave. And if you need to hate the person to help you get through it, it's all good, but eventually you will need to confront your own demons. 💗
Absolutely, it's so much more complicated than "the innocent CD versus the evil narc". How can you not use manipulative narcissistic strategies when your self-esteem is completely broken? How can you not be selfish when there is no self love? The "evil narcissist" is the unconscious shadow side of the CD. Just like you said: if you strive for healing as a CD, you have to work through your own narcissism.
Thank goodness! I have been questioning my own reality and wondering if I'm crazy! I've asked myself this question a million times. I'm glad I came across this video!
Thank you so much. I have been dealing with the feeling I am a narcissist for the past 7 months and recently I have realized I need to practice self love. I still sway back and forth of believing I am a narcissist, but after finding your videos it has helped me alot reframe my thinking and actions. Thank you so so much.
funcereal you are being self reflective. So IF you really are narcissistic there’s a lot of hope for you! You probably have a good heart and just fall into some bad behaviors and habits. Best of luck.
Ross....I am so terrified that I may be turning into a narcissist. It's such a terrible path to turn to when you are constantly criticized for everything you have to offer (mind, body and soul). All my shortcomings are constantly magnified and all that I have done and sacrificed NEVER EVER ACKNOWLEDGED. I am so terrified that I would end up hurting the 3 most loving people in my life who are pillars of my strength (my parents and my younger sibling). I DO NOT WANT TO HURT THEM ....EVER...BUT I AM HURTING SO MUCH. I am terrified and numb with fear. I am confused and have started having anxiety attacks (I am 37 year old and married to the man who has now framed me as a "selfish/self-centered/most manipulative/cunning/cold-blooded/ruthless/lazy/queen/child/needs babysitting/does not work hard enough/pea-brain/on crack-coccaine/how did you get a PhD?/pegion-brain"/overly sensitive/egotistic/too much pride/high-horse/anger issues". These character assassinations have torn me up on the inside. I DONT WANT TO BE A NARCISSISTIC DAUGHTER TO MY LOVING PARENTS AND NARCISSISTIC SISTER TO MY LOVING YOUNGER SIBLING! Please please please SAVE ME!!!!!!!!! PLEASE I AM BEGGING YOU.
+Drake Drones Honey, rest easy . . . Rest, REST EASY! . . . . . Just have a HEART-TO-HEART with all your closest loved ones...... and share with them what you've been through.... and tell them this: "IF I EVER do ANYTHING to OFFEND YOU.... PLEASE let me know IMMEDIATELY! . . . I have been hurt by __________ (whomever), and just want to be certain I am not passing that on to you, but am showing the opposite: what I always wanted for myself, but did not receive!" HEAR ME WELL! JUST DO THAT for me! . . . . Families can be SOOO UTTERLY ABUSIVE.... but still think they QUALIFY as "FAMILIES!" God So Bless! REST EASY! YOU are NOT the perpetrator... but have been the victim. Just PUT IT OUT THERE.... QUALIFY it as SUCH... tell them you do NOT WISH to EVEN REMOTELY RESEMBLE your PERPETRATORS.... and if you EVEN COME CLOSE, for them to LET YOU KNOW PRONTO! - DONE! You will NEVER have to WORRY about this again! Kindest... Kindest Regards.... Best & God Bless! + + + xo~A +Q-S/
Thank you so much for this video. My daughter has accused me of being a narcissistic mother when I was bringing her up. I feel terrible about the way I brought her up. I didn't acknowledge her feelings because I was depressed for most of the time. Great video
OH! THANK YOU, THANK YOU! I've been consumed with the damage wreaked across my life because of an overt father narcissist and covert mother narcissist. He was dominant over all of us and she was resentful especially that his will overpowered her will so much that she took it out on the kids. Recently she claimed SHE took the brunt of my father's bullying to evade taking responsibility for how she also mistreated us. ANYWAY, I've been so worried that I'm a narcissist because of how hard it is to get out from underneath all the problems, especially since gaslighting pretty much prolongs the problem. :( I really needed this. Thanks! edit: I cannot emphasize enough that I HATE having these deep seeded problems hard-wired into my brain (from childhood development) and wish I could snap and make them go all away and then resume with a normal life of happiness, blending in amongst the people.
By the way, I do have a problem with denying responsibility in SOME situations if something spooks me into thinking the punishment will far outweigh the crime. Now that I've been an adult for a while, this doesn't happen so much anymore because I'm more confident I can handle myself in a tough spot. But when I was a child, I would lie through my teeth to avoid simple trouble because the punishment always was far worse than it should have been. And I hated myself for "being a liar". I thought I was a terrible child for knee-jerk lying, wishing I could just admit to mistakes or faults. But the alternative explosive punishment (which included years of never living it down by my father) was just too scary. As a brand new adult, before I got confident that the world wasn't interested in brutalizing my psyche because of a parking ticket or late payment, my reaction to screwing up was to hide and escape culpability. THat helped keep my self-esteem down because I knew I was doing it and I hated myself for it. BUT! Because my natural personality (INTP) is not interested in controlling others or living in manipulation or in falsehoods, OR spend time with people who cannot have a meandering conversation about the meanings of things, I will not suffer a narcissist for a love interest. I will not do it. Zero tolerance for it.
May i ask if you're at all religious, had there been any voodoo growing up, or just stuff, demonic in nature? Had you recovered any blacked-out memories? How old are you?
Interesting life story, thank you for sharing it @VideoMenu! In these situations I always get a bit confused if your mother would be considered a covert narc. or a active codependent with narcissistic traits....whats your take on this? Never the less, both behaviours are unhealthy and should be worked on of course, no matter the label. Love & Light to you!
Dr. Rosenberg thank you from the bottom of my heart. The past 7 years have been an awakening to the soft chronic trauma that I have been enduring since childhood and the guilt I feel knowing I may have unconsciously not given basic human respect to people who genuinely cared about my well being as a result drove me to question whether or not I was a narc. Substance abuse from a young age led me to behave very narcissistically which really blurred the causal lines. Now I realize that that is a separate issue, I am indeed human, albeit a somewhat impaired one, and can continue on the path to become a whole, emotionally healthy human being. Thanks again!
Thank you so much for explaining this! I have been going back and forth trying to determine if I'm the narc in my ex relationship. It has been so painful and I've been wracked with guilt over it. I have found out, through watching your videos, that I am an active codependent. I fought so hard with him to stop his lying and emotional cheating and manipulations and gaslighting. I begged him for the truth time and time again. We have a child together and now she has become the battleground. Last week, a woman messaged me to ask if he and I were still involved(we have a pattern of breaking up but still being in a situationship) and I foolishly talked to her before investigating her. Turned out, she is good friends with his friends and they are all friends on Facebook. When I went to her asking questions about that, SHE called me crazy and said I wasn't respecting her boundaries. I feel so sick. Especially since she approached me saying "I'm a baby mama so I can respect other baby mamas and just want to know if I'm being lied to." After I told her things, she had said she was cutting him off but they are still friends on Facebook. I am at such a low point that someone who doesn't even know me is actively seeking to manipulate me on his behalf and also using my toddler as part of their "reasoning" to reach out to me. His smear campaign of me is glaringly obvious and I don't know what to do. If I should wind up in court over this, can I use her messaging me to manipulate me into getting information then gaslighting me over it as part of proof that he is not good for our child and is using flying monkeys to further abuse me? I'm so scared that he is actively trying to set it up to where he can take our child from me.
I was raised by a narcissist and married one before I knew about NPD and other personality disorders. I'm not a narcissist, but I did pick up some of their behaviors and am now unlearning what I picked up from them.
This is so true. Thank you Ross. As a person recovering from codependency I was asking myself this when I was being blamed by my ex-husband whom blamed me for everything. God bless you.
You, kind human, are an absolutely huuuuuuge breath of fresh air on this topic and i am waaaaay more than surprised by my feelings of relief and gratitude I am experiencing in having only watched 3 of your short videos. You have managed to speak of and give language to my entirely complicated emotional life experience of being codep with a very well educated factual simplicity that I have been trying to find for a very very long time. It is like you reached inside my brain and found the ultimate way I want to communicate myself to others about this complicated shit . THANK YOU
Inverted narcissist is a real thing. I was one, it was hell because I spent my mental energy on wasteful shit. Luckily I had a break down, was forced to take medicine that silenced my mind long enough for me to change. Nobody knew, I was that good at hiding it because "you can't be a narcissist, you're too kind" but that was just because I spent EVERY single moment making sure my actions displayed this.
WOW, I am so glad I watched this typing as the tears flow. Eye opening and so thankful for the Video. Thank you for clearing the this common misunderstanding!
Thank you Dr. Ross Rosenburg. I came across your work through a podcast about divorce, because I am currently in a terrible relationship. My husband constantly blames me and my family for destroying his life , ridiculing me a stupid, lazy, and claiming me as a narcissistic person. He use the most disgusting words to name me. He complains about me not showing up as a wife. Even when I say I don’t have comments on a particular news he has strong opinion on, he says I am selfish. That’s why I have decided to divorce him. I am told by him that my narcissistic personality is inherited from my mother. I initially believe in him, but the more I listen to your explanation, the more I understand that all he does is gaslighting. Thank you very much for your help. I will start reading your book and learn more.
When they get you to turn against yourself then they have got you to do the dirty work for them. I thimk the test of being a narcissist is that if you feel guilt, shame or remorse for your actions you are obviously not one and the initial doubts are from projection.
I'm worried I am one or I have been one in the past, I'm only a teen. I don't think I show traits of it, I usually accept responsibility for my actions, and I'm so afraid to hurt people. And if I make them feel bad I generally regret it the second I do it. I was so spoiled as a child by my grandmother. I was so needy for attention, I didn't know why. I could possibly have ADHD. I show a lot of criteria for that more than narcissism honestly. I was so emotional and possessive of certain people because I cared about them. I got angry easily, sad, scared, it was terrible. I grew up a bit, and if I manipulated someone it wasn't consciously.. I don't know. It kinda worries me because I'm in a relationship currently and I love him to pieces. I've never manipulated him or intentionally did anything to hurt him, that's the last thing I'd like to do.
I think narcissists feel things, but deny it a lot and act as if gift-giving makes up for their misbehavior. I think it’s sociopaths who feel no remorse.
@@ryk6207 Sweet and mean cycles cause cognitive dissonence hence a gift after or before abuse is common. Expect something stolen from a sociopath, the gift is not theirs to give. Making someone complicit is just a game to them. Too often it is transactional or an investment with never ending returns. Maybe a phone with gps tracking. Maybe the whole family is visiting on a birthday and the wow gift appears to reap in praise and invoke envy. Narcissists do seem to feel some things and I can't speak for them but it seems limited with envy, anger, self pity. Denial overrides any form of accountability. Sociopaths, psychopaths feel less than others but some are very good at faking it. Fearless dominance in society on a broad scale, callousness and increased sadism with disregard for the law of the land(not just in interpersonal relationships or ongoing conflicts) generally separates them from narcissists. The tricky part is seeing the intent and proving they are being abusive. The halo horn effect.
unfortunately most people only get a small idea about someone else before they lay blame in a failed relationship. Covert narcissist are very good at spinning it so the co-dependent appears to be the person with the problem because they are so reactive. Just because a person appears crazy does not mean they are, it could mean someone is driving them crazy and the real perpetrator is the person acting like the victim.
+Mel morr
exactly; a real double whammy
+Mel morr the the nail right on the head spot on
+Mel morr Well said!! Perfect!! Thank you for speaking on my behalf as well. The wife is a very borderline, under the radar empathy deficiency disordered little lady with the anger of a 7' 300lb. marine and she can always sleep like a baby after blow-outs?!!
Such a great point. I have a narcissitic father, who did eventually drive my mother crazy. Made her feel inadequate and like she was never doing enough or living up to his standards. She was the one who appeared volatile and out of control and so he could use this against her. He was the rational, emotionally in-control parent. He could manage his own image perfectly. But now as an adult, I completely understand why she was so frustrated, angry and reactive. I feel the exact same way in relation to my father now.
I SO AGREE with the original comment here! I have been observing, experiencing & thinking on this for years. in the last few years I've been sharing my thoughts with other people, to not just blame the crazy acting person in a relationship which they observe, because it's usually the squeaky wheel who's being pestered by the other person. Like two little kids in the backseat of the car where the one who Haulers is the one who gets yelled at by the parent while it is actually the quiet one who is sneakily punching the other one and getting away with it.
OMG, I am a Codependent, NOT a Narcissist!! Secretly in shame, I thought I was and was conditioned to believe so! I am in tears now! Words can't described how relieved and grateful I am!!! I AM fixable! Thank you so much for the clarity, Rob Rosenberg! God bless you!
"I AM fixable!" 😢 I became emotional over this. May Jesus our Lord pour out his mercy and grace upon your life.
"Narcissists don't ask that question, co-dependents do..." damn
You have to become selfish for your own survival against a narcissist.... and no guilt .... that is the survival .... it is learned.... and makes you defeat them.......
Agree,must be an "positive egoist" for to survive and get the narc out of your life..
And learning selflove..💜
I wouldn't say "selfish" but self affirming.
It's TRUE, after 22 of marriage to a covert narcissist I have put my foot down, assert myself and get my needs met, though he always says no and objects to everything.
After backtracking 1 million times thinking that I am the narcissist thinking that I am wrong all the time, this comment.period.
@@Desmondbrown73 yup.
I was raised by extreme narcissists and feel like i need a psychological black belt just to function at a decent level...TY for your work...very helpful
same
Keeping you in a state of chaos and confusion is one tactic to be careful of... watch out... it happens before you even know it.
THIIISSSS. 😭🥺🖤🦋🧿
It is so INSIDIOUS!!🥹🥹
Thank you. I am a codependent who has been abused and gaslighted by multiple narcs throughout and my life. During conflict with narcs, I frequently begin to act like one...I hate it. I've been worried I am or will become a narc. But I definitely am codependent. I feel the pain of others almost too much, latching onto all-consuming people through caring for them emotionally. I've done this all my life and it opens me up to a lot of heartbreak. Wish I could stop. I love making people feel good, and so easily manipulated by abusive people.
Me too! Can two recovering codependents start up a healthy relationship? We should try. I don't care about your age, looks or wealth, as long as you are kind and loving by nature; not just using those traits for manipulation purposes!
>>> I used to think of myself as a "giver" and an "empath" (now I know I used the term "empath" incorrectly). I reasoned that a giver and a taker (Codependent and pnarc) were sadly doomed to fail, but I always assumed that a giver + giver WOULD work.
>>> I just kept getting tricked by pnarcs who pretended to be givers and I never got to test my theory... I accept my half of the responsibility for being attracted to the wrong types. How can I recognize if someone is conning me or really loves me? I'm learning all the time, so I'll be getting better at that value judgment as time goes by... I may get it wrong again, but I'm convinced it's possible that one of these times, I WON'T mess up... maybe my NEXT relationship will work. ANY VOLUNTEERS?
watch - knowing the narcissist (on youtube) and learn ;)
@@251omega how is your search going?
@@marthamacanalee1716 I don't know how to do that kind of a search. I don't know that I would be able trust the "results". If I ever find someone else, I'm afraid the only way to know if she is a narcissist is to try again and observe the results. I may not be able to find the courage. It's not an issue until I find someone else to go out with. I hope my fears won't scare her away before we can even find out. We will see.
@@251omega ditto! Not willing to chance it yet. I do want friends, though. I am starting from scratch so I think that is my best bet for now. That way I can get tested without the heartbreak
I refuse to get involved with people who love to hurt others, when they hurt others they'll hurt you as well. I don't want to be a part of that vicious cycle.
@Christine haugh. I am with you. I don't like to see people hurt in anyway, that includes emionally, physically or mentally. The narc revels in others being hurt or hurting in any way. I know I was married to one [him) FOR 23 years. He was extremely mentally ill and I could never get away from him until I started a divorce and 6 caring, living people helped me get free of him. Everyone that finally got away from him and free, went in to be successful including me. Just remember, the person who is in emotional pain is the one who always wants to leave any relationship to relief the hurt and pain they are experiencing.
Yes,mee too..💜🤗💜
i wish i could thumbs this up a million times and put it on a billboard
Don't like to see ppl get hurt But.. a narcissist I find I can make exception.
Used to be empathy for others but after narc abuse.. must put up barriers.
What if the narc tells you stories about them being the victim, whether true or not. I guess you need to learn how to all the right questions to vet them.
This was a breakthrough for me. I have constantly been made to feel like I'm selfish and that all I do is complain, when all I've done is stand up for and demand to be loved the way I deserve to be loved. I have been abandoned and rejected by every major person in my life, and am now in the education stage of learning all of this and putting the pieces together. I am very direct about what I want and will communicate it in every way possible, and I did become an active co-dependent. I cannot get the emotional connection and empathy because this person lacks it and has harmed me greatly. I had CPTSD all of 2016, a complete break in self esteem, and cried every single day. It is a lot to process all of this, but I'm happy to finally be coming out of the fog.
msdeety this is how I feel to.
msdeety they love to tell u that u r selfish dont buy it
niecers good thing is when u realize your worth u wont be settling for anything less anymore😉❤️🙏
You go girl! Way to stand up for yourself
It is a lot to process, I wish you a wonderful future, I am in a similar place, I am still suffering with cptsd symptoms and I lack the words necessary right now. My trust in myself has gone, major doubt, I don't know who that girl is in the mirror, she looks broken, I can't explain to others why I keep cancelling plans im just terrified of going outside. So I don't know what the future holds or if I'll ever get better but I just can't and won't give up, deep down inside us we know that we can handle anything that comes our way. Much love your way x
I have a memory of trying to snuggle with my mother when I was very little. I have a flashback of her coldly responding, stop clinging to me like a leech. I stopped looking for hugs. Then I once overheard an aunt asking my mom, what happened to S, she used to be so affectionate, and my mom said innocently, I don't know, she just started getting cold. I wanted to scream and tell the truth to my aunt, but I was too afraid to do so. That is what I can remember. Lots of my childhood is blank, I don't remember it. My mom didn't have an ounce of compassion in her. She was cold. I still can't picture her lovingly holding any of us siblings in her arms as babies. It seems alien. My mom never said I love you, and hugs were non existent in my house. I don't know if she was a Narcissist or not (She didn't seek attention, but isolated us all except for brief family get togethers at holidays), but later I did get hooked by a covert narcissist. She gave me the love I always wanted (mother in law), but I didn't find out until later that it was all fake. She had all the classic symptoms of a Covert Narcissist. Growing up in my home led me to have sympathy for the underdog. I knew what it was like to be unloved, and felt sorry for them. The Covert Narcissist used this to get me hooked. I have learned a lot through it all. I am trying to learn how to still have compassion on others (because I fear getting deceived again), but balance it with setting healthy boundaries and not being so gullible. It is a process. But, I am finally free from the Covert Narc. My husband is healing from being the scapegoat in his family and we are trying to learn from our mistakes and move on.
Sue S
Me too. Always rooting for the underdog.
In sixth grade I I broke up a fist fight after school because it was over and he kept pounding on kid. The next day the bully beat me up. I went home with a bloody nose and black eye and got, “ Well mind your own business next time.”
I mean I’m so bad that if the losing team catches up and gets ahead I’ll switch teams.
Physical affection made my mother grimace.
That sounds more like full-blow psychopathy: just sayin.
I see. I was brainwashed and conditioned to turn against myself for them to have control over me.
This is exactly what I needed, thank you. I thought I was a narcissist because of this projection from my mother. My husband isn't a narcissist but I projected my mother onto him for years... So when I started recovery I believed my husband was abusing me, but he wasn't... It's so strange how the mind works. Now I'm working on my triggers, to stop reacting to my husband the way I would to my mother...
Great first point. Narcissists are not drawn or interested in your videos.
they learn,
what works, what they can use, how it suits them, how it hurts you or gets them the attention they crave,
if not yours then those they can set against you.
they learn... you're the lesson.
and once they see a brighter road
you'll be dropped like a pebble by the road.
no regrets, no tears, no nothing
you're obsolete and you were
but an 'article' to begin with
(though they will make you believe otherwise)
just never knew it
bright side?
now you do..
brighter side?
they can't heal (at best have a good run)
you can...!
cheers
+ NORMALIZATION OF IGNORANCE
That's not very uncommon of narcissists. Always trying to improve their tactics and how to prevent being found out, they do read stuff and watch videos about narcissism. I have watched other videos where they leave comments, and there are not so few of them around here.
BUT:
When they comment, they accuse others of not being sympathetic, of how they DESERVE love like anybody else, how other people are failing them because they stigmatize them, how people withdraw from them selfishly etc. Once you know the signs, you detect them immediately.
The other type of narcissist that comments is rather rare. They somehow know they are abusive but cannot change it.
I believe a Narc Would ask probably out of curiosity of your response,or the expert intelligence you produce,to test if you can sense they are.psycho Analysis.
No, they scoff at the "psycho mumble jumble" unless they can use it against someone.
@@melinda2615 i seriously had a recent ex ask if I thought she was a narcissist.
A narcissist will never ask "Am I a narcissist."
@@hypnogermaphobeAgreed. And if they did ask that question of themselves, they are probably not a full blown narcissist. -:)
Actually, I got involved with someone who said they were a narcissist, how else would they have gotten through a Harvard ! And their argument to me was was "so you have problems with narcissism, and I have problems with intimacy"
Now, I thought narcissism by definition excluded intimacy! My question is, will narcissists admit to being narcissists???
Even proudly.
@@hypnogermaphobe well it was a heads up, but shortly thereafter the criticisms, judgements, attacks came in and claiming to be a victim of my negligence. I am grateful for the heads up and that it wasn't months down the road, only 5 weeks. Just a chilling deja vu. I hope the last.
@@barbarajohnson1442 thankfully you found out sooner than later,
Imagine a narcissist asking if they're narcissist.. not even on their deathbed would they do that
8:52 - 13:00 The Narcissists makes the target turn against (doubt)himself/herself. Criticizing the target/victim incessantly to make them feel bad/wrong. That is the shortest synopsis of the manipulative Narcissist.
I am an extreme introvert, and a lot of relatives of mine (who among them even a psychiatrist) accused me as a snob narcissist, and I was so hurt, I lost my self esteem completely, until a friend of mine told me that a true narcissist, never question themselves as a narcissist.
Anyone who call someone else narcissist are usually one. I never call my narcissist mother and sisters narcissist cause i know they have no clue about it!
Riza hariati.. Yes I get called anti social etc. by my family as well. I stay away for a reason..lol. I Understand 💖
Eyesofthebeholder 33 When I finally found that I'm simply an introvert who gain strength from being alone, I finally realized that I'm not evil or anti social, I'm just born introvert.
unelady2 Me neither! Only after reading and watching video references I understand that. Like gaslighting, triangular etc, I realised, oohh.. that's what they've been doing to me!
You may have been force to be an introvert to protect yourself. I did, I was always alone and kept living my friends and parties to go be alone. When I told my therapist that I was even going out in storm during winter and was less afraid of being outside in a blizzard then inside with my siblings at a very young age (under 7), she told me I wasn't an introvert but had found this way to protect myself. .
Hallelujah!!!! I have seen the light. Thank you!
Thank you so much for doing this video !! I'm a Narcissist magnet it seems. My ex husband was a Malignant Narcissist. Constantly criticizing me and judging my achievements even though he could not do what I was capable of doing. He criticized my appearance. Constantly trying to improve me. To the point that I felt I couldn't leave the house unless EVERYTHING about my appearance was as perfect as it could be. If I didn't have perfect skin , manicure nails, great outfit etc. If everyone didn't comment to him how beautiful I was he was actually angry. I lived a decade of my life trying to live up to this impossible expectation of me. I worked out 6 to 7 days a week maintained a size 2 dress size , only to be told I would be perfect if I didn't have big legs. Or anything he could make me feel insecure about. My mother who I've adored all my life is a covert Narcissist in my opinion , I still to this day try hard to please her. She has many good qualities but has the power to make me feel terrible if I disappoint her. My best friend I believe is an active co dependant which feels like Narcissism because she is so absorbed in herself and her problems. She also is very critical of my appearance. If I look good when I see her she comments I'm overdressed. Always looking me up and down. Just extremely focused on finding flaws. I DO NOT ever criticize her. My current husband is also critical less focused on my appearance but picks at my other habits ,. If I forget to shut a bedroom door , or unload the clean dishes etc. I have read and listened to so much information about Narcissism that I started to think fear that maybe I am also a Narcissist because I will occasionally manipulate my husband, mother or best friend or ex husband to avoid their criticism and disapproval. THIS VIDEO INFORMED ME THAT I AM UNEQUIVOCALLY NOT A NARCISSIST. 😊 Thank you so much for doing this video and ending my confusion and fear. God Bless you. !
Thank you for sharing Rhonda. 🙂
Criticized for "big legs?"
That's a plus in my book, and I think it is with most men. Voluptuous women turn more heads in public than slender ones.
Your ex is a douche.
Remember lying my assignment off at the ripe old age of 4 or 5. The goal was self preservation. It was never safe to actually tell the truth growing up.
Same. I’d get beaten for telling the truth, not when I was lying.
I bs'ed my way out of things to survive. Learned how to be a great bs'er but these things dont work anymore. I want to thrive, not just survive.
I've experienced this narcissistic game myself then I realized something that seems rather simple: while in the relationship, I was the one consistently giving. Whether this was caring for the other emotionally, physically (daily maintenance of the home, cooking, always caring). If I dared ask for help, I was quickly seeing the victim side of my partner. This is not obvious when this partner is calling you the nsrc. Beware, if there's no reciprocity (which a narc is incapable of in long term), they are gas lighting. period.
Thank you for bringing it up.
I had a narcissist tell me, "A relationship is give and take. You do all the giving and I do all the taking. It's your fault because you won't let me help. You're a bad friend."
Got the tshirt
This is Exactly what happened to me. I was told over and over again that I was selfish if I ever tried to meet a need.
So I've lived a life where I have felt guilty every time I try to put myself first.
I can't ask for emotional needs. I just freeze up
I still feel intense shame and guilt trying to meet my emotional needs.
If anyone can advise practical advice please let me know
Also I would love to bring this guy down to Australia
This is urgent because I am starving metaphorically speaking
Thank you for your support of Ross's work! You can find more resources in Ross's blog: humanmagnetsyndrome.com/hmsblog/ and website: www.selfloverecovery.com/
I Believed that I Was....Alone
Then I I Met Many...Who have Been Through the Same ❤
Get a good therapist, first.
Treat yourself well.
I have come to accept that emotional needs may not even be met by the one I hoped would meet them... so I invest in friendships and activities that do help myself and restore my ability to give to others.
I understand metaphorically starving. I have used the same term!
God bless you. Move forward in hope.
@Trakman I feel your pain brother. Your experience sounds just like mine. At 60 yrs old, having been married to the same woman for 40 of those years I feel like I’ve wasted my entire life. I’m not sure what move to make, get out to try to build the life I’ve dreamed of or just put up with it and keep my head down to avoid all the drama. Though it seems the harder I try to go out of my way to keep the drama to a minimum is when it gets cranked up.
I was recently told that it's always all about me when I was attempting to communicate that my feelings had been hurt. It's taken me so long to figure out that my narcissists (yes, there are two) will NEVER hear what I am trying to say. I realize that they are incapable of perceiving the ways in which they contribute to the dysfunction, preferring instead to lay the blame on me. I know that I am a contributor and I don't like it. I've tried to reach out to both of them because I want the dynamic to change. One of them, my mother, hung up on me when I told her that I felt disrespected. The other, my husband, acted like he was really listening and then told me to go f*ck myself. More recently he told me that I am full of sh*t. These are their responses to statements which came directly from my heart, made calmly and sincerely. These people are beyond hope. It's like they have no soul and are dead inside.
@carriellbee OMG! This is exactly what has been happening with me. I thought I must have bad communication skills. I don’t ever open up anymore about my feelings. I just acquiesce and go along, meanwhile muttering inside my head, “I hate you!” It’s always, “do this or there will be he11 to pay!” And our 40 year marriage has been sexless for way too many years. I’m now getting the silent treatment because I didn’t plan a blowout vacation celebration for our recent anniversary 5 weeks ago. She couldn’t help with the plans? Why in need of a surprise? Places were barely open because of pandemic. I gave her a surprise blowout 50 birthday celebration 10 years ago. She forgot my birthday the first year we were married. No plans to give her a party this year at 60. Not holding my breath for a 60th for me this year, got nothing at 50 either. The harder I try the worse it gets.
When you tell the narcissist that they are a narcissist.. and then they call you one.
I totally agree with this Ross. Co-dependents cannot be narcissistic. In order to survive having a narcissistic mother, I learnt to be dishonest and be agreeable to please her. This insidious, surviving upbringing was ingrained in me and led me into narcissistic relationships. She could at times be kind, very rarely. I learnt that if I told her I was ill, she would back off so I learnt to lie, so she would leave me alone. Any achievement I made, she would be instantly jealous, not pleased for me. My father said to me at 15yrs old, "take no notice of your mother, she's just jealous". I didn't understand it at the time and it hurt me terribly. If anyone out there had a narcissistic mother or father that made them feel less than, there's no bigger betrayal. It can take years to figure it out. Self love is an easy thing to say you need to do, a lot harder to get there. Keep going, coz you will. Never been religious, never read the Bible, but hell, been reading and studying it for the past 4yrs and boy it's helped me in strides. Thank you Ross for this video x
co-dependants believe they are narcissists because they were raised by one and therefore believe they are one too because of this
true ;( i was so worried
Not quite. I believe they feel they are a narcissist because of the way their parents brainwashed them to think that just having ordinary needs was excessive. The child's energy had to be completely devoted to the parents' needs.
Holy Moly wow, I totally identify with that explanation!!! Wow!!!!!!!!!
I think compassion for "narcissists" as damaged humans is the way out. The fact you have said few, indicates you view them as "bad" and the codependent as "good". I don't want to invalidate your suffering here, I too had all of this bother, it sucks right. But i believe the idea of good and bad is at root in it, a fear of being "BAD" the want to be seen as good. I think freedom from this comes in understanding and viewing both conditions as "trauma" and this will allow you to free yourself to be objective. By no means want to invalidate whatever horrendous time you went through!!! Just sharing the painful often hard truth of the way out of this is acceptance, forgiveness, and understanding. You'll be able to love your torturer one day, that's the freedom, you might have to do it from distance though! Good luck. Love and compassion for all is key though.
Interesting, but I love my torturers and this is why I couldn't cut contact with them, my narcissist sister had to attack my children to hurt me since she couldn't make me outburst at her and that's when I finally cut contact, but I still feel love for her,and understand we both sick but still feel hurt too and that was 10 years ago.
I have a covert narcissist that is so sneaky that I mentioned your work (before o realized she was one) and all about my past experience with a narcissist that when I was “discarded” she remembered all if it and declared they were a victim and word for word the things I said about narcissists! They posted trying to educate their followers, saying they are a victim! It was utterly bizarre to hear someone describing things that she was doing to me, using information I gave her and saying I was doing it that I was the narcissist. They are ridiculously manipulative
😥🥺
I asked my therapist that exact question when I first started therapy!!! She gave the same advice. It’s all gaslighting. Thank you for your videos.
Thanks so much for sharing Jill!
I started as a passive codependent,& moved on to active codependent. Ive lived alone over 2yrs for the first time. Im 57 this August. Its been rough even had a n-stemi heart attack after the first year. The emotional trauma I was not prepared for. But I survived Im trying to learn to thrive and heal my soul...❤thank you for your videos
Ross, you are such an inspiration. You have changed the landscape of my life. I've had such a biography/pattern of choosing narcissists as partners. After a horrible and traumatic recent break up, I found your videos on youtube and had an immediate awakening. You're incredible. Thank you for all the good work that you're doing in the world.
Well said. Stay strong
I feel so much better after watching your video. Thanks!
This is me right now. It's so hard to walk away from him because I feel so bad for whatever he's endured in life...I feel like the narcissist...I blew up on him and was so emotional. I feel like I have ptsd.
I'm crying. Thank you so much for being emphatic about the point. So much self doubt clouds self image and even a slight gray area leaves the door cracked to greater depths of self doubt.
Glad this is helpful Jack.
It's really difficult for me to watch your videos without being overcome by grief. Thank you for mentioning self love. It's such a foreign concept to me, but finally I'm beginning to understand. Thank you for answering that question and thank you for sharing this on UA-cam.
You have no idea how much this video saved/comforted me. Thank you
So glad it helped Taylor!
Ross knows this stuff from personal experience, most professional people will only touch the surface. Thank you.
Ross, I love you so much!! You have given your life to the freedom of precious people!! That's one of the greatest things on earth; freedom of mind!!
Sooooo, I just had my mind blown... and put at ease all at the same time... Ive been worrying for ages if I am a narcissist and have literally been avoiding all relationships both romantic and platonic because I thought I must be somehow very destructive without knowing how or why. It's been almost 5 years now....
same yo
same i was confused about that today ;/
I have been closing up all my relationship too, one to protect myself from the narcissists I always attract into my life and second to make sure I don't hurt others if I am a bad person. I have been following therapies for over 15 years and still sick. I was manipulated by my mom and my closest sister and they gas-lighting all my life. Stuck in between two narcissists I am a passive co-Dependant who taught I was maybe a narcissist too.
Listen to Lisa Romano She went thru this Then married one, She says it is Your programing
@FirstName Last they're predators.... And co dependents are their prey. Once you have awareness of your co dependant wiring you will be able to get the help you need which is healing your core inner child wounds. Underlying mental disorders stem from underlying trauma that has been suppressed and resides in your subconscious, which is in control of your actions, thoughts
A great book Ross. I'm in the middle of reading it atm. It has helped me understand why I have had narcissistic relationships over and over. Not only that I've discovered my parents are narcissist and co-dependent. Now I can see why my life has turned out the way it has. It's not too late, even at 56 to heal and change my life. Thank you Ross 😃
Thank you very much, you help me so much to understand, and protect myself.
Thank you for sharing, Ross R.! I enjoyed your talk, and look forward to listening to others, along the way. ✌️🙏🎶
I'm a recovering codependent people pleaser with both parents that are narcissists.
I think it's equally important to understand the counter-dependent.
Every narcissist is counterdependent, but not every counterdependent is a narcissist.
A lot of times codependent will go to the extreme of being a counter dependent.
When we recognize our behavior we can bring into balance what is healthy instead of one extreme to the other.
I never heard about counterdependency so I looked it up. It really makes sense and explaines a lot.
Thanks!
Seriously dude, you are amazing. You are totally saving my life and probably my ass right now from two narcissistic sociopaths who are after me and I'm realizing if I would just let go of the anger and the pain my life would probably be a hundred times better
Codependents are not narcissists, that's true. But I think psychologists should start waring people that rage and unforgivness can lead to bitterness. And bitterness kills empathy. I've seen a few codependents cross over to the dark side due to staying in the anger stage too long. After all , narcissists just have a deeper disorder than the codependent, and the line of demarcation is empathy. Many codependents talk about the similar traits that they share with the narc, and prolonged anger, becoming caustic, leads to bitterness and a sort of switching off of empathy. IMO codependents *can* become narcissists with enough pain being cemented in their souls. A lot of narcissists *know* they are narcissists.
I also think that a step towards healing is to *admit* that trying to manipulate and control people is bad, whether we are passive or aggressive codependents. After all, isn't the control and manipulation the things we HATE the most with the narc? I took the greatest leap in my healing when I stopped thinking I was "the good guy". Yes I was a victim of narc abuse, but what entitled me to be manipulative and controlling like the narc?
I came to the conclusion that I was simply walking in some bad traits that the narc had, and I needed to own them and stop. I started to practice kindness and humility in place of manipulation. I know it sounds hard, but I'm just saying what I found to be true inside myself.
@@tessw9744
Yes, I have witnessed this. Although I don't think she was truly either, my mother exhibited traits of both, narcissism and codependency. Allowing and putting up with long term emotional abuse in the relationship with my father, yet she was extremely manipulative, engaging in triangulation, always playing the victim and always so critical of me.
Yes,its,so true.I too have seen many coindipendents go over tho the dark side.
They been bitter,angry ,and cynical ..I want to HEAL and DON T be like that..💜🤗💜
Oh my heavens, this is so very true. The only thing that keep me sane is my love of God!! He gives me truth......
YellowRose Yes, because we are told to forgive, repeatedly, which keeps us from turning the hurt and anger into hate. Thankfully our belief in God keeps us on the right path.
Is it common for a codependent to think they are a narcissist if they are being scapegoated during a smear campaign?
Very often the narcissist will project all of his bad traits onto you, and do it so cleverly that he can convince everyone around you that YOU are the one with these traits. A normal introspective person (you) has to be awfully self-assured to stand up to this kind of external pressure. I mean, if all these people are telling you that you are this way, you would naturally have to wonder if you really are, and you just don't see it like they do!
ya. trust u mind will play tricks
story of my fucking life...... this same shit can be attributed to gender.
people all my life telling me wHO I AM. wtf no. i tell YOU who i am
sick of being convinced i'm someone i'm not
i know who i am
+TylerJaden24
They will force their view of reality onto you as hard as they can, and especially if there are more than one of them, it can be really hard to hold onto yourself and resist the smear campaign. If you try to protest or defend yourself, you only feed into the false paradigm they've set up, and they use that to reinforce what they're saying about you to other people. It's frustrating beyond belief, and they play so dirty, they can leave you NO way to defend yourself that does not make you look exactly like what they say you are. There is also no way to explain this to people who are not involved. That only makes you look paranoid and defensive as well. It's the worst when they paint YOU as the narc, and their evil is so effective that they can almost make you believe it too. That little feeling inside you though, knowing that it's wrong, that it's untrue, false, unfair -- hold onto that; it's something the narc would never feel. The narc knows that what he/she does is dirty and unfair, and they love it. You know you don't love it, it's a hideous thing, you'd never want to be that way. That's your clue that you are not what they claim you are.
***** you're so rightt ;( we have to be stronger than those who try to break us
my narc sisters laughed at me everytime I talked about or bought a self help book for myself. I used to say to her, you can borrow the book and she used to say "why", "I dot need it" lol
Wow. ....Am copying your comment to go in my word doc of insightful UA-cam comments (there are some very good ones around). Thanks.
Rude. Yup she must think she’s perfect or something. Which means she’s flawed sooo. It’s a conundrum lol
Sounds like my ex-wife covert narcissist that I wasted 17 years of my life with. I never saw her read a book.
Thank you Ross, very insightful.
Thank God. I wanted to cry 😥... Your videos are helpful.
I recently found and read Rosenberg's book and was blown away! I am in my mid-fifty's and ended my marriage four years ago (thank goodness) after 24 years of being criticized and ignored by my narcissist ex-husband. I twisted myself into knots to meet his needs and avoided any focus on what I wanted or needed. Just now realizing how much of myself I buried because I was told repeatedly that I did not deserve what I wanted or needed from him. I thought the marriage was the problem but now memories of my mother's words are coming to light. I was praised for compliance and staying quiet. My goals and aspirations were diminished with words of how I would embarrass myself for trying something new or why I was not the kind of person who deserved what I sought. It is rather frightening to have these recollections now as I largely buried these memories and now they are resurfacing. One of my very first questions to my therapist after my divorce was "maybe I am the narcissist?" As a true co-dependent I continue to feel tremendous guilt or "disloyalty" for even thinking about the negative impact my childhood had on the person I am today.
Thankyou, I really needed to hear that. Still doubts creeping in. I never knew narcissism was such a big issue let alone know what it was. Having clarity is so damn important.
My mother is the narcissist who has covertly abused me all my life, but she is also co-dependent - first to my abusive stepfather, and now to my abusive brother. I get that you can't be both a narcissist and co-dependent within the same relationship, but you can definitely be both with different people.
I was so brainwashed I couldn’t even comprehend what you meant by this video, until it clicked randomly earlier today!! Wow!!
Exactly!!! I’m innocent! I was brainwashed, until now!
These accusations are from all of the abuse. They’re lies. I’m not a mean manipulative controlling person
Thank you so much!
thank you so much for this video. you are absolutely right. I remember my ex would never even attempt to read Self help books even when I begged her to get help for her Verbal Abuse. I remember I would send her articles and book links but she just couldn't do it. when I accused her of being verbally abusive she would always say that I was the Abuser. that she behaved this way because I was too insecure and controlling. she always managed to flip the blame on me leaving me wondering if I was the Narcissist. thank you for this clarification.
Your ex was like mine we are below their feet to them. We are nothing. Our opinion does not count. They are the Master and in their mind we need to be a obedient slave. They reverse everything. They are mentally sick. Everyone watching this and searching for answers on here knows that deep down the person we care or cared for is sick and we just want confirmation from someone that what we are experiencing is not treatable but a complete waste of our time because we can't change this person. God Bless to all of you reading this!
"You're controlling " is the typical response when you call them out on their behavior.
@@LeeroyyyyyJenkinssssss Controlling and jealous. Oh, and how about that memory, huh? How dare us remember what they did yesterday! That's ancient history! 😄🤣😆 morons
Been there with the articles, too. She never read one.
I’m so glad I found this channel this guy makes so much sense to me !! I been asking myself this question a lately am I a narcissist I was with a narcissist for 20 yrs been away from him for 9 thank goodness but it changed the person I was almost sucked every bit of life out of me literally
So glad this information is helpful Julie. Keep up the good work!
About 15 mins in the questions for diagnosing a narcissist. Thank you! Sounds like someone I know.
dear Mr.Rossberg...thank you soooo much for starting the exposing & discussing of the subject of narcissm...u r a true Pioneer & life Saver...thank you Sir....I am also so happy that you are getting so good & smooth at the rhetorics..because u r the true source of help at this subject but only because your talking Skills were not as defined as that of Sam Vaknin or Ollie Matthews you were not a knowledge but you are soo getting there now...God bless.. much love..keep up your good work to beat the narcs at their own Game :-) :-) :-D
Wow!! Thankyou Ross Rosenburg for your razor sharp literally clinical analysis in explaining what you have to say. You deserve a reward for your work in this arena!! It is a system of confusion, anxiety, fumbling, crashing and in the end manipulating I have been working through not ever having understood what it was that has gone on first to putit in motion or to in anyway resolve it. It isn't easy to hear what you have to say when the injury from the beholden abuse is so prevalent! Your explanations become so much clearer from having come out of the fog from the set in place injurious nature from the affliction! And how clear they are. Thankyou!!
I strongly feel that underneath every narcissist is a codependent.
Same as underneath every alcoholic or addict is a codependent.
It’s always about love, self love and to get it it, if you didn’t t get it... you try to get it somehow
Narcissism and codependency lie on the opposite ends of a spectrum - like one of those old volume controls or digital displays - and we ALL lie somewhere on that scale (our human nature - genes, biology, intelligence, physique, looks, etc). A good childhood should leave us about mid-way, in balance, ready for life, but sadly that is all too often not the case and life (our human nurture systems - parenting, peer-groups, schooling, role-models, society, ideology, etc) can all play their part to upset that so both narcs and codeps, in fact all of us, seek to self-sooth our resulting inner discomfort with feel-good hormones like dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin and endorphins. Things like exercise, alcohol, cigarettes, gambling, consuming generally, socialising (think social media!), sex, self-improvement and projection, religion and even meditation* all generate these highly addictive but temporary 'highs'. Unfortunately 'success' in life today rewards self-discipline by delayed gratification combined with the determination to pursue more 'meaningful' long-term objectives. An evolving societal question is how these are then subverted by those tempting legitimate and illegitimate 'highs' along with the very unloving nature of our systems of 'nurture' because, let's face it, they're still not working too well. Meantime, as it always has been, calm and balanced acceptance of yourself is the place to be 😇.
Ps. I forgot to mention *power and the (inevitable?) emergence of narcissism as a social phenomenon but let's leave that for another day 😉.
That’s for any human being. We all crave love.
You just helped me understand who I am, who I’ve been, who I could be etc etc much more. It’s hard to put my experience into words. I was raised in what I now acknowledge as a severely narcissistic home. I’m 33 years old now and it took me becoming a single mother at 26 and experiencing living alone as a mom for 2 years away from my family to be able to even slightly analyze my upbringing and my past behaviors. It’s freaking crazy. And every time I think “I get it”, there is more. I’m not sure this fog will ever go away but I’m alright. This is what always confused me. I can now look back and see many years where I clearly behaved as a codependent in relationships. But I can swallow my pride and openly admit that I can always look back and CLEARLY see where I also behaved like a covert narc and an overt narc as well. ESPECIALLY during my teen years into early 20s. When I recognized that my father is textbook overt narc and my mom is extremely codependent yet also extremely narcissistic (she still confuses me), and I started to see these videos etc it started to click and over the years little by little it’s like I’m looking at myself through a bubble and figuring out who the hell I am is almost a creepy process! My father was and still is abusive. But in a way where we still get together as a family (lots of enmeshment) and just know how to co-exist. He is an overt narc, acted like a covert narc with us (the kids) when we were children until puberty age where I guess he felt more comfortable acting malignant? I was the scapegoat. My sister the golden child to the extreme that she has an Ivy League degree so forget it....my brother the flying monkey triangulated his whole life to hate and physically abuse me for getting male attention in my teens. To which then my codependent mom came to my rescue on a regular basis and made me her golden child out of sadness and basically made me codependent on her protection. While my brother was being raised to be physically abusive. All because I wasn’t particularly useful for my father. But I was the “attractive” one. However, BC my mom was against him showing my brother to be violent, I became the argument between my parents...and the “waste of space” of my dad. Long story short...it sounds appalling to admit this and I prob never will outside of therapy but in HS I acted like a disgusting narcissist. In the sense of getting attention for being attractive. My mom loves that and my dad hated it. It was the game they played. Then I started dating....I love bombed people, I discarded people. I even once became scared of myself and remember crying one day 6 months after leaving someone without remorse wondering why I didn’t have empathy. I didn’t feel anything! It was sick! Then into my early 20s I acted more co dependent. Probably BC I already knew what heart break felt like. Except I was extremely manipulative calculating explosive selfish and again, had zero empathy. I don’t know how people even dated me. Good people too! Then over the years I became more and more codependent but I still found myself acting narcissistic. Over time and with more and more heartbreak I started to “feel” more. Finally as a single mom and living alone I looked at myself in the mirror, on all the people I lost, I never cared to hold on to friendships, etc. I was alone. And I began to heal. And I still can’t figure out if I was/am a codependent narcissist that “saw the light” or wtf. But this video. It gave me one more puzzle piece. When you said that I was programmed to believe I was something I wasn’t. And it hit me. My dad programmed me to believe I was disgusting and useless and acted like a whore bc I was attractive and all I wanted was attention and blamed my mom for spoiling me and making me so “entitled”. That’s why he trained my brother to hit me for being this way.
So...i think it clicked somewhat. Was I trained to act narcissistic? Like him! And then blamed for it?! My sister was trained to act narcissistic in a over achieving way and I was punished for displaying his bad qualities. This is sick. I don’t even know what else to write. This is clearly long and drawn out. I have never commented on anything in my life. But....not only has this made me confused some more, but maybe my own experience sheds light on people’s “research”....
And I think I can now clearly can say that yes...I was a narcissist. Because I was trained to be? But was truly codependent ? And I know this because every time I come across a narc I get emotional wondering if they are truly narcissistic or if they may be having a narcissist episode like me--which sounds very codependent.
And this probably made no sense. But this is how disconnected we become from our true selves everyone. This is why instead of writing this in my journal, I’m writing it here.
Thank you for all that you do. I’m a high school teacher, mom, and simply trying to finally get my life back. In a way I deserve and in a way that allows love to finally flow to and from me and anyone else I meet. Thanks
And yes. Regarding your first point about narcissists Not being Drawn to your videos, yes that is true, when I was experiencing this I would have never looked it up. But I posted what I posted to let everyone know that it is way way way way deeper than that and way bigger of the spectrum than anyone could ever imagine
Omg... I’ve even done this to people. Where if I think they are narcissistic I have told them that and sent them an article about it and left...only to return months later.
But clearly I’m a codependent. This is making me feel awful. I thought I was close to being healed. But every time I think so I get smacked in the face with other realizations. I guess I’ll be looking up a new therapist.....I can’t even make sense of my own crap. Ridiculous.
Thank you for sharing Moli. Keep up the good work! You are on the right track!
I’m desperately trying to get away from an abuser and then label myself unforgiving because distance is the only answer with these crazies!
Appreciate the video doc!
Thanks Suzie!
Thank you, thank you, thank you! I wish every young person in the world could watch this. Love and more light . . .
I am so happy I got to see this. I have been so hurt after seeing information on codependents being narcissists. I would never want to upset or cause harm to others.
When you said codependents let these aholes off the hook you just explained so much. I didn't have many things at all growing up and my mother controlled what I did growing up. Ballet, piano, sports I hated and I developed social anxiety and a whole range of insecurities from this insanity. I know I could have been a singer and that gift was wasted because of her wasting my time. She's been dead a few years now and I'm safe now to look at what she did to me. Over controlling parent is an understatement. I was the scapegoat and had 2 failed relationships. My next step is to be a hermit. She destroyed my life for her needs. I'll never be enough because she had me in her life for 54 long unbelievable years. The last words of hers came from the gravesite after the funeral. The final slap in the face. One of her flying monkees said to me "You know your mother loved you.". She fooled them but she couldn't fool me. I just wonder what was said about me to prompt her to even say such a thing. I only told her. "Yeah, I know" and walked away as fast as I could. All of her words I'll never believe. And I saw that smirk. Many times.
dude you have no idea how the first 3 minuets of this video helped me. i was so fucking convinced i was a narssisist and i felt so bad about it that i would just hide in my room and kick myself for who i am. i didnt realize that narssists warped our brains to the point of believing that were the selfish ones. thank you so much
You're wonderful, I love the eloquent way you effectively communicate. You break this nightmare down so precisely. Wish there were centers for women, AND men! Who've been emotionally abused by a narcissist; a sort of shelter, but more of a healing center, for victims who've been interviewed and who meet all the criterion of victims of narcissistic abuse, so they can heal, to some extent, and rebuild their lives. I know for me personally, and my two children - the narcissist's stepchildren, something like that would be a gift from Heaven, because, I have no support system, whatsoever. I made a big, HUGE mistake and I cannot undo the damage he's done to my now teenage children. He came into their lives about 14 years ago. They view him as a dad. Their biological father is a different kind of narcissist and we divorced in '06 at which time my children were 3 and a half and 5 years old. They show significant signs of trauma, have confusion around who they authentically are and my son especially, is showing signs of low self worth, no motivation, and he stays in his room with the door closed, 85% of the time. Thank goodness he doesn't lock his door.
Anyway, thanks again.
I did wonder if I was a narcissist for a little while cause I was around it so much.
I was a codependent during my years associating with Narcissists. I am glad I can use this video against anyone who tries to accuse me of being the “true” Narcissist.
This is exactly what I needed to hear! It moved me to tears. Thank you. Hugs. (-;
Thank you Ross your a beautiful being
Excellent analysis! :-) Thank you!
(Waves)
You have no idea how encouraging this is!!
Thank you Dr. Ross for your work. As someone who's been diagnosed as codependent, Borderline Personality Disorder, MDD, PTSD, GAD, and CPTSD, as well as suffered through addiction but got sober 9 years ago, and lived through a very traumatic childhood of sexual, emotional, and physical abuse that I had to normalize up until then, oh and a current psychology student in my graduate studies, I appreciate the work you do as you clearly have a purpose in life to help people end these abusive relationship patterns and seek healing and live a more fulfilling life. I enjoy watching your videos even though my own ideologies agree and disagree at times as I evolve through my own journey of healing and also maybe from having to watch dozens and dozens of video footages of psych evals which is how personality disorders became my own area of interest and emphasis of study.
Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) is on a spectrum. All PD's are very much alike and are just a symptomology of unresolved trauma. I believe if you've been diagnosed with one, you can be diagnosed with any (except sociopathy which is a different disorder that should be classified on its own axis in the DSM). It's very dependent on who it is they're addicted to. They're all centered around addiction to their need. They're all trying to protect their inner vulnerable child.
The labels do a major disservice because we cannot fit anyone in a perfect little box and identify them by some list of symptoms. It's not looking at the whole entire person. A person who has narcissistic traits can still be a codependent because we all have narcissistic traits. A codependent can be abusive, and so can a narcissist. A codependent can resemble a person with BPD. Borderline Personality Disorder. All 3 can be very reactionary and come off as lacking empathy when they can't hear what the other person is saying because they are reacting impulsively and lacking control of their emotions.
I've come to learn that our partners and ppl around us are mirrors of ourselves. They're showing us things about who we are or who we're capable of being that we have not yet come to terms with and accepted by bringing out the good and not-so-good in us. The moment we realize that we should not be in a relationship with someone, that it's unhealthy or we are sacrificing too much or it's ruining our insanity and we are being manipulated, we are no longer the victim of that person but a willing accomplice if we stick around and allow the manipulation to continue in order to feed our own selfish need of needing to be needed. But that can also be the turning point of when we can start seeing things for what they really are and viewing the relationship from an observer position instead of an active participant, and we can began our process of detachment.
What we are a victim of, is our unresolved childhood trauma and dynamics we grew up in that became our blueprint or pattern for our adult relationships. I've seen codependents put their kids through hell and drag them through the mud over their emotionally turbulent relationship with their spouse or partner. They have an addiction and have irrational fears of abandonment just like a BPD. They lack self love so how is it can they love their child the way their child needs to be loved? If they cannot protect themselves from the insanity, how can they protect their kids? I understand that in having to detach and heal, sometimes we need to hate the demons in someone. But eventually, we need to come to terms with the demons inside of ourselves and accept who it is we really are, if they are ever going to break this relationship pattern. It's possible to do so without having to demonize our partner and go on campaigns that dehumanize their narcissism. What narcissistic person, whom is already a scared child inside trying to protect their vulnerability to great lengths and suffers from low self esteem, is going to want to even seek help or gain a little insight into their rationalizations if it means they got to confront they are a vile, worthless, human being who can't be helped? That's just not the case. Anyone narcissist who isn't truly suffering from a fragile ego, who didn't suffer childhood trauma and truly doesn't hate themselves inside, and can honestly and maliciously hurt people while not in a reactionary state, is not a narcissist. They are a sociopath. And sociopaths who are correctly diagnosed as sociopaths and are not really narcissist, is a completely different Ball Park because those are the ones who are born the way they are. Narcissists, Codependents, BPD's, they are not born the way they are, they are made by their childhood experiences and trauma.
Narcissists, in my honest opinion going off of my studies in my psych major and outside of school, and self examining my broken thought patterns and behaviors throughout my life and my relationship dynamics, they are just as damaged and traumatized as the codependent.
As I embarked on my journey of healing my broken thought patterns that brought me abusive relationships and heal my childhood trauma, I not only had (and continue to have) to accept the codependency in me, I had to accept the narcissist and the borderline in me as well. It allows me to turn these liabilities into assets and not let these traits of my personality control me. It helps me practice love for myself when I can accept myself, the desirable and the not-so desirable parts of who I am.
My advice to anyone is, if you're at a place where you're ready to recover and heal, which it's a life long journey of recovery, and your partner is NOT, then start thinking about how you're going to leave. And if you need to hate the person to help you get through it, it's all good, but eventually you will need to confront your own demons. 💗
Lil Jaded-Bunny why do we have to leave? why can't they leave?!
Lil Jaded-Bunny thank you. I really appreciate this . Ur a smart and beautiful person👌🏼🤙🏼😄
Absolutely, it's so much more complicated than "the innocent CD versus the evil narc". How can you not use manipulative narcissistic strategies when your self-esteem is completely broken? How can you not be selfish when there is no self love? The "evil narcissist" is the unconscious shadow side of the CD. Just like you said: if you strive for healing as a CD, you have to work through your own narcissism.
Thank God for you and your testimony. This is spot on! You’ve done your work! Very courageous and inspiring!
Thank goodness! I have been questioning my own reality and wondering if I'm crazy! I've asked myself this question a million times. I'm glad I came across this video!
Thank you so much. I have been dealing with the feeling I am a narcissist for the past 7 months and recently I have realized I need to practice self love. I still sway back and forth of believing I am a narcissist, but after finding your videos it has helped me alot reframe my thinking and actions. Thank you so so much.
funcereal you are being self reflective. So IF you really are narcissistic there’s a lot of hope for you! You probably have a good heart and just fall into some bad behaviors and habits. Best of luck.
Thank you for this statement! You insights, knowledge and work are more Worth than one gold.
Ross....I am so terrified that I may be turning into a narcissist. It's such a terrible path to turn to when you are constantly criticized for everything you have to offer (mind, body and soul). All my shortcomings are constantly magnified and all that I have done and sacrificed NEVER EVER ACKNOWLEDGED. I am so terrified that I would end up hurting the 3 most loving people in my life who are pillars of my strength (my parents and my younger sibling). I DO NOT WANT TO HURT THEM ....EVER...BUT I AM HURTING SO MUCH. I am terrified and numb with fear. I am confused and have started having anxiety attacks (I am 37 year old and married to the man who has now framed me as a "selfish/self-centered/most manipulative/cunning/cold-blooded/ruthless/lazy/queen/child/needs babysitting/does not work hard enough/pea-brain/on crack-coccaine/how did you get a PhD?/pegion-brain"/overly sensitive/egotistic/too much pride/high-horse/anger issues". These character assassinations have torn me up on the inside. I DONT WANT TO BE A NARCISSISTIC DAUGHTER TO MY LOVING PARENTS AND NARCISSISTIC SISTER TO MY LOVING YOUNGER SIBLING! Please please please SAVE ME!!!!!!!!! PLEASE I AM BEGGING YOU.
+Drake Drones Honey, rest easy . . . Rest, REST EASY! . . . . .
Just have a HEART-TO-HEART with all your closest loved ones......
and share with them what you've been through....
and tell them this:
"IF I EVER do ANYTHING to OFFEND YOU.... PLEASE let me know IMMEDIATELY! . . . I have been hurt by __________ (whomever), and just want to be certain I am not passing that on to you, but am showing the opposite: what I always wanted for myself, but did not receive!"
HEAR ME WELL!
JUST DO THAT for me! . . . .
Families can be SOOO UTTERLY ABUSIVE....
but still think they QUALIFY as "FAMILIES!"
God So Bless!
REST EASY!
YOU are NOT the perpetrator...
but have been the victim.
Just PUT IT OUT THERE....
QUALIFY it as SUCH...
tell them you do NOT WISH to EVEN REMOTELY RESEMBLE your PERPETRATORS....
and if you EVEN COME CLOSE, for them to LET YOU KNOW PRONTO!
- DONE!
You will NEVER have to WORRY about this again!
Kindest... Kindest Regards....
Best & God Bless!
+ + +
xo~A
+Q-S/
Thank you so much for this video. My daughter has accused me of being a narcissistic mother when I was bringing her up. I feel terrible about the way I brought her up. I didn't acknowledge her feelings because I was depressed for most of the time. Great video
OH! THANK YOU, THANK YOU! I've been consumed with the damage wreaked across my life because of an overt father narcissist and covert mother narcissist. He was dominant over all of us and she was resentful especially that his will overpowered her will so much that she took it out on the kids. Recently she claimed SHE took the brunt of my father's bullying to evade taking responsibility for how she also mistreated us.
ANYWAY, I've been so worried that I'm a narcissist because of how hard it is to get out from underneath all the problems, especially since gaslighting pretty much prolongs the problem. :(
I really needed this. Thanks!
edit: I cannot emphasize enough that I HATE having these deep seeded problems hard-wired into my brain (from childhood development) and wish I could snap and make them go all away and then resume with a normal life of happiness, blending in amongst the people.
By the way, I do have a problem with denying responsibility in SOME situations if something spooks me into thinking the punishment will far outweigh the crime. Now that I've been an adult for a while, this doesn't happen so much anymore because I'm more confident I can handle myself in a tough spot. But when I was a child, I would lie through my teeth to avoid simple trouble because the punishment always was far worse than it should have been. And I hated myself for "being a liar". I thought I was a terrible child for knee-jerk lying, wishing I could just admit to mistakes or faults. But the alternative explosive punishment (which included years of never living it down by my father) was just too scary. As a brand new adult, before I got confident that the world wasn't interested in brutalizing my psyche because of a parking ticket or late payment, my reaction to screwing up was to hide and escape culpability. THat helped keep my self-esteem down because I knew I was doing it and I hated myself for it.
BUT! Because my natural personality (INTP) is not interested in controlling others or living in manipulation or in falsehoods, OR spend time with people who cannot have a meandering conversation about the meanings of things, I will not suffer a narcissist for a love interest. I will not do it. Zero tolerance for it.
May i ask if you're at all religious, had there been any voodoo growing up, or just stuff, demonic in nature? Had you recovered any blacked-out memories? How old are you?
I am curious about this, could you go into a little more detail? I KNOW I've blacked out since childhood.
Hope to hear back
Interesting life story, thank you for sharing it @VideoMenu!
In these situations I always get a bit confused if your mother would be considered a covert narc. or a active codependent with narcissistic traits....whats your take on this?
Never the less, both behaviours are unhealthy and should be worked on of course, no matter the label. Love & Light to you!
Dr. Rosenberg thank you from the bottom of my heart. The past 7 years have been an awakening to the soft chronic trauma that I have been enduring since childhood and the guilt I feel knowing I may have unconsciously not given basic human respect to people who genuinely cared about my well being as a result drove me to question whether or not I was a narc. Substance abuse from a young age led me to behave very narcissistically which really blurred the causal lines. Now I realize that that is a separate issue, I am indeed human, albeit a somewhat impaired one, and can continue on the path to become a whole, emotionally healthy human being. Thanks again!
we really dont have this kind of therapy awareness in relations in my country , so I really appreciate this info
Thanks alot Ross. Game changer you are.
I wish I would have found you years ago....Thank You for being here. : )
Thank you so much for explaining this! I have been going back and forth trying to determine if I'm the narc in my ex relationship. It has been so painful and I've been wracked with guilt over it. I have found out, through watching your videos, that I am an active codependent. I fought so hard with him to stop his lying and emotional cheating and manipulations and gaslighting. I begged him for the truth time and time again. We have a child together and now she has become the battleground. Last week, a woman messaged me to ask if he and I were still involved(we have a pattern of breaking up but still being in a situationship) and I foolishly talked to her before investigating her. Turned out, she is good friends with his friends and they are all friends on Facebook. When I went to her asking questions about that, SHE called me crazy and said I wasn't respecting her boundaries. I feel so sick. Especially since she approached me saying "I'm a baby mama so I can respect other baby mamas and just want to know if I'm being lied to." After I told her things, she had said she was cutting him off but they are still friends on Facebook. I am at such a low point that someone who doesn't even know me is actively seeking to manipulate me on his behalf and also using my toddler as part of their "reasoning" to reach out to me. His smear campaign of me is glaringly obvious and I don't know what to do. If I should wind up in court over this, can I use her messaging me to manipulate me into getting information then gaslighting me over it as part of proof that he is not good for our child and is using flying monkeys to further abuse me? I'm so scared that he is actively trying to set it up to where he can take our child from me.
I was raised by a narcissist and married one before I knew about NPD and other personality disorders. I'm not a narcissist, but I did pick up some of their behaviors and am now unlearning what I picked up from them.
Thank you for explaining this Dr. Rosenberg.
Self love deficit disorder...wow, never heard of that. Thank you for mentioning that.
This is so true. Thank you Ross. As a person recovering from codependency I was asking myself this when I was being blamed by my ex-husband whom blamed me for everything. God bless you.
Thank you for this. I've been asking myself this too.
You, kind human, are an absolutely huuuuuuge breath of fresh air on this topic and i am waaaaay more than surprised by my feelings of relief and gratitude I am experiencing in having only watched 3 of your short videos. You have managed to speak of and give language to my entirely complicated emotional life experience of being codep with a very well educated factual simplicity that I have been trying to find for a very very long time. It is like you reached inside my brain and found the ultimate way I want to communicate myself to others about this complicated shit . THANK YOU
Inverted narcissist is a real thing. I was one, it was hell because I spent my mental energy on wasteful shit. Luckily I had a break down, was forced to take medicine that silenced my mind long enough for me to change. Nobody knew, I was that good at hiding it because "you can't be a narcissist, you're too kind" but that was just because I spent EVERY single moment making sure my actions displayed this.
Thank you so much Ross...this explains a ton
WOW, I am so glad I watched this typing as the tears flow. Eye opening and so thankful for the Video. Thank you for clearing the this common misunderstanding!
Narcy was so content seeing me sacrificing my time, education, body lines-for dysfunctional, pathological, non existent "love" with Him...
Thank you Dr. Ross Rosenburg. I came across your work through a podcast about divorce, because I am currently in a terrible relationship. My husband constantly blames me and my family for destroying his life , ridiculing me a stupid, lazy, and claiming me as a narcissistic person. He use the most disgusting words to name me. He complains about me not showing up as a wife. Even when I say I don’t have comments on a particular news he has strong opinion on, he says I am selfish. That’s why I have decided to divorce him. I am told by him that my narcissistic personality is inherited from my mother. I initially believe in him, but the more I listen to your explanation, the more I understand that all he does is gaslighting. Thank you very much for your help. I will start reading your book and learn more.
Glad this is helpful Natalie. For more resources, please visit our website: www.selfloverecovery.com/
As always, very very, informative!
What a intelligent man! Bravo👏 Greetings from Germany
When they get you to turn against yourself then they have got you to do the dirty work for them. I thimk the test of being a narcissist is that if you feel guilt, shame or remorse for your actions you are obviously not one and the initial doubts are from projection.
I'm worried I am one or I have been one in the past, I'm only a teen. I don't think I show traits of it, I usually accept responsibility for my actions, and I'm so afraid to hurt people. And if I make them feel bad I generally regret it the second I do it. I was so spoiled as a child by my grandmother. I was so needy for attention, I didn't know why. I could possibly have ADHD. I show a lot of criteria for that more than narcissism honestly. I was so emotional and possessive of certain people because I cared about them. I got angry easily, sad, scared, it was terrible. I grew up a bit, and if I manipulated someone it wasn't consciously.. I don't know. It kinda worries me because I'm in a relationship currently and I love him to pieces. I've never manipulated him or intentionally did anything to hurt him, that's the last thing I'd like to do.
C Forest yes!
I think narcissists feel things, but deny it a lot and act as if gift-giving makes up for their misbehavior. I think it’s sociopaths who feel no remorse.
@@ryk6207 Sweet and mean cycles cause cognitive dissonence hence a gift after or before abuse is common. Expect something stolen from a sociopath, the gift is not theirs to give. Making someone complicit is just a game to them. Too often it is transactional or an investment with never ending returns. Maybe a phone with gps tracking. Maybe the whole family is visiting on a birthday and the wow gift appears to reap in praise and invoke envy. Narcissists do seem to feel some things and I can't speak for them but it seems limited with envy, anger, self pity. Denial overrides any form of accountability. Sociopaths, psychopaths feel less than others but some are very good at faking it. Fearless dominance in society on a broad scale, callousness and increased sadism with disregard for the law of the land(not just in interpersonal relationships or ongoing conflicts) generally separates them from narcissists. The tricky part is seeing the intent and proving they are being abusive. The halo horn effect.
well I didn't expect this video to make me cry but here we are
holy crap!! he nailed my entire experience with me and my ex. Theres someone on the planet that knows what I went thru. I feel validated.
Thank you for that video, something I always believed but, it is so refreshing to hear a professional confirm what I always thought.