Are they a Narcissist or just Avoidant?? Here's how to tell...
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- Опубліковано 2 кві 2024
- • 7 Signs They Are "THE ...
Here's the easiest way to tell if someone is a narcissist or just an avoidant. They can both love bomb, they can both dismiss or invalidate your feelings, they are both intimacy averse and emotionally unavailable. However, there's one major difference between the two and it can really help us to decide how to navigate that relationship.
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"the avoidant doesn't even want to have needs, and they certainly don't want you meeting them because then that means they're relying on you" that blew my mind...
That's exactly right. And, it's so painful when they won't let you do *anything* for them. After years & years of this type of rejection I just gave up wanting to meet any needs.
That sounds more like schizoid PD, just sayin :)
That's my husband to a tee
Pair avoidant with dependent
Gets interesting
That part got me too
"You were so worried about them abandoning you, that you abandoned yourself" This is deep!
I did this. I let myself become the background character. The Luigi to her Mario. Her job aspirations were more important than any of my dreams in life. I let my boundaries fall for her. I know for one thing my boundaries are my boundaries and I will not move them for anyone in the future.
As an avoidant type, I promise I'm not here to hurt people. *I* have been so hurt and used/taken advantage of by almost everyone in my life, so I developed this to protect myself. But I've been doing years of work on it in therapy and I'm very self aware. Thats the key. You need to be self aware to get through this and do better.
Same here.. agreed ❤
I wish you well. 😊
Good for you! I hope you find happiness.
Thank you for this and I’m so happy for you that you’re going to therapy and working on yourself. It’s hard work, but I commend you. What was the turning point or reason that made you go to therapy?
❤ it’s okay. Just try to heal and become safer. You are still important and should be loved too!
"you are used to getting inconsistent love" that hit me so hard
Yes I was fine and then this line comes out of his mouth and wow that was painful
Agreed
It heat me so badly
Unless we wake up and fight for ourselves.
Same
"You deserve someone who wants to put in the work to make this relationship work." Fact.
"It only takes one person to change a relationship for the better but it always takes two to actually feel connected and close."
Perfectly put
Yup
💯. I started working on myself and doing inner work to heal myself. It’s changed my marriage for the better 👍🏻
“It’s me. Hi. I’m the problem.” - things a narc wouldn’t say.
This is true😳My ex was an avoidant. I didn’t know about attachment styles during that time. I knew he wasn’t a Narc because I’d studied this. He once said” It’s me. I need to work on myself.” something a Narc would never say. We didn’t work out of course. But It’s great discerning one from the other.
They would sometimes to suck you back and show fake remorse.
Covert narcissist will do that and even threaten self harm to get you to come back and apologize. But definitely a malignant or classic narcissist would never.
@@JonathanTodd-og7dd yes covert this is my husband. He apologized dozens of times times to repeat the same thing again and use your vulnerability.
A narc would absolutely say this.
They say whatever they need to
I saw a quote online that could help people who are in an unhealthy relationship like this
"If I could love the wrong person this much, imagine how much I would love the right person."
Well...... maybe not!
I wish things were that straightforward.
There is something in me that doesn’t gravitate towards god people. Friends yes is ok but not relationship
@xoxjelloxox same here :/ I'm just starting to learn to choose good people, how to tell if someone is bad or fake or whatever... and I didn't even start until recently
They get high off of loving the wrong person. If the right person were there, they likely wouldn't love them.
@@theDurgaLove it’s a curse. I’m doing this right now.
My last partner was avoidant. He was a total sweetheart and never once demeaned or belittled me. We never even fought. But he was also completely incapable of prioritizing me or meeting any of my needs. It was my first serious relationship with someone I actually cared about and my inexperience led to me doing a lot of things wrong, but in the end, it was just simple incompatibility... It still hurts, but hopefully the next one goes better now that I've learned a lot.
I believe if both partners put in the work to become more secure together, it can work. Was he not willing to meet you half way ?
What do you mean by a total sweetheart? This doesn't sound like someone who doesn't care about your needs. This is belittling, like, literally. Putting you much lower on the priority list because you don't matter. Expecting you to do all the emotional labor for the relationship by negligence and ignoring that it doesn't work this way. Because for him it worked until you were the pursuer who was willing to align to his self-centeredness.
@tufftgr No, he just couldn't handle those kinds of conversations. He would just shut down. We were long distance as well, which made everything that much harder, yet easier for him to avoid things.
@@HoszHosz You don't know him, so you can't say what he's like. You can either take me at my word or not. It's my lived experience and I don't have to explain it to you.
@@rynfiaryn long distance definitely makes it harder , I have been listening to a lot of videos on Adam lane smith channel , I would definitely recommend to anyone dating an avoidant. I wish you the best in your next relationships 🤗
The ultimate message in my opinion: every single person needs to become self-aware of their behaviors and take accountability.
That’s the thing… that people exactly know what the fùçk they are doing :)
But even if you do this you are screwed if you get paired up with one of these people. And it’s not like you can just meet them once and know. These people can mask, lie, and manipulate for years and when finally caught and called out there is no remorse or recognition or guilt or closure. They’ve already convinced themselves and truly believe long ago that all their lies and games and hurtful behaviors are fully justified and that there is nothing wrong. Being on the receiving end of such a thing, even if you are very self-aware, secure, and accountable is absolutely maddening. It is literally reality bending. Trust me I’ve had plenty of experience. NOT FUN
@@OneManCollaboration I totally agree with you! It’s almost unavoidable in the dating/relationship realm for everyone to have experienced varying levels of abuse/manipulation/etc….
@@GabrielleP310 Like at this point I truly question whether I even want to bother. And I am truly a genuine, honest, real, kind, smart, strong, successful, supportive, generous, interesting, talented, etc guy. And when dealing with people like this NONE OF THAT MATTERS. You have absolutely 0 control and just get the rug slowly pulled out from under you and gaslit or you get it yanked from under you one day and while you’ve hit your head and are dazed again you are gaslit 😅
And work on themselves….
15:54 you know you’re healing when you’re no longer trying to villainize the narcissist or avoidant… best common ever
I agree. The injustice feels so severe in the beginning that we are impulsive and reactive and when we tell our stories, we keep saying this and that. I'd been in that stage. But yes healing is a lot about self-acceptance, to know and understand that your happiness is still in your control and you can still work towards it and build the life you want. At some point, there is just indifference. There is no villainising, their name doesn't cause you to get distracted, and you're happy that both of you went separate ways.
I'm finally there! 🙌
Underrated
!!!!
I'm getting there, finally. After 24 years of marriage, 4 kids, the shock of his infidelity really put me into such an angry mood for quite some time. It's been about 9 months, the divorce is nearing the end, and I'm beginning to feel that I'm letting go of that anger - it doesn't serve me at all, and it really doesn't matter anymore, I'm just happy to be free now.
I'm avoidant. The lie I grew up with was how important family is. But the reality was that my parents didn't value, protect, defend, love their children. We needed to be silent, invisible, brilliant, accomplished, but without having any needs. I was made to feel that any help I received or asked for was an imposition and laziness on my part. Every bf I've had has had the same beliefs. So bc I don't choose well, I've decided it's best to stop. Even when friends try to match me, they choose cheats, control freaks, or felons for me. So I don't trust friends either.
Whoa. Yes, I understand all of this from an I know an avoidant perspective. Same upbringing.
There's a lot to unpack there but here are some questions you should think about.
What do you mean you don't choose well? Do you think it's somehow your fault for not being able to spot people's inner lives before even getting to know them? Do you think your friends are going out of their way to pick bad matches for you? Have you considered that maybe the only way to meet good people is to unavoidably sift through some challenged individuals?
@SisypheanRoller people are subconsciously attracted to the unhealed parts of themselves. Heal yourself, and you will attract healthy people
broooooo 🫂🫂🫂
I had similar thoughts when listening regarding family
You must be my sister
I think avoidants can give you a silent treatment because they don't want to say things they might regret later. They might reclaim their space or go for a walk because arguing bring them old, nasty memories.
That's me in a nut shell
@@trishclark1915
Tell whoever you are arguing with that you will come back when both are chilled and ready to talk without using ammunition like adults without yelling or getting offensive. Give them also time to cool off and make clear you can't stand yelling or passive aggression, whatever triggers you. That's what I would try to do but it doesn't work with people who don't want to find an agreement because they just want to win the argument.
Exactly me. When I reach my breaking point I dont want to hurt anyone and I know I will if I stay around. I say things I dont mean when i'm overwhelmed
This would be fine, except there needs to be a calm time to circle back around and talk about things. Ignoring the conflict and acting normal hours or days later is what gets me.
@@paisleyduck
That's what narcissists would do. I don't know much about avoidant. I just don't bother as much as I used to trying to fix things up. If I find someone who doesn't want to address a problem I accept it but I'm gone.
There's no healthy relationship when one of the parties don't care or try to force you to ignore the problem or leave you with the job of doing it all, etc. I don't bother trying to fix anyone or even explaining things that are obvious. I just accept that person is not invested and forget about them. I can be flexible and give chances but I am not going to chase someone. I understand we all need time for ourselves and that maybe a moment is not the right moment to clear things up for anyone and postpone, leaving because you are too mad at the moment but, never finding the time? No.
I think if you give people chances and they don't want them, you can't force them. I guess that's why many men are surprised when they get divorce papers served. They still will say...and suddenly, like if there weren't any previous signs but that's fooling themselves and others.
They probably thought not addressing the problem would make it dissapear.
Dated an avoidant, and BOY, what a disruptively toxic ride it was!!
In all my life, I’d never felt so lonely as I felt in that relationship. What I found even more shocking was how much drained I felt in the relationship, even in their presence. It was like this person was sucking out everything from me and giving me nothing. Glad that I got out finally.
Praying for anyone still struggling 🙏🏾
Yup. To me it felt so very difficult just to connect with them. They act like their life is so special and should be locked up in a box. I felt like I had to pull teeths out of this person. They barely initiated convos or shared anything, basically a pillow princess🤣. There was also a sense of fear from them not wanting to get too close, always at an arms length.
My struggle ended today.
It is exhausting. Absolutely draining. Feels like hard work to sit around and wait for someone to decide you’re worth investing time and energy into and by the time that comes, you’ve moved on because who the hell wants to sit around and wait on someone to figure out if they actually want to be with you? It makes a person feel totally devalued and unappreciated.
Also you just can’t trust them. They live in a distorted reality, have deep insecurities, project them onto you, dismiss your feelings and then dismiss when you call them out on doing so, and they will still justify obvious wrongs in their head because they genuinely do not fully understand nor are they aware of themselves, what they truly want, their motivations, wants, needs, desires, etc. You’re just along on their ride and same with narcissists from my experience. Both are torment and hell in the end
@@OneManCollaboration YES! That is exactly how I experienced my longterm relationship with an avoidant. They had such a distorted view of reality, and their behaviour came from an incredibly toxic place of fear and shame. I didn't know about these things, and because the initial love bombing was sincere and felt "real", I stayed way too long. Everything Jimmy said in this video is true, and an avoidant can be just as toxic and damaging as a narc, especially if they have ZERO self awareness.
This makes me feel so bad for being a Dismissive-Avoidant person. I hurt someone six years ago and haven’t gotten back into a relationship since, because I worry so much about pulling away and causing hurt. I can consciously try to be caring and empathetic and patient and available but it’s so hard for me to trust and override my protective/independent-at-all-costs instincts.😢
My cousin is the most avoidant person I know (which among other things means "more than me") and she's been with the same guy for over 15 years. Second long-term relationship for her, I haven't asked for his lifetime file.
There's hope, but it's difficult to hold onto it when the belief that you're unlovable is such a big part of your core.
I actually think this... Avoidants = non-accountable. Therefore. When anyone is near an avoidant it's a personal responsibility to avoid avoidants at all costs. "But if everyone follows your advice then no one will ever date an avoidant." I just think avoidants should date eachother. But yeah I do believe in answering the avoidance of avoidants with permanent abandonment. I just think independent people who need no one really should stay lonely forever. Because people are unnecessary right? So be it. I don't think avoidants need relationships or should be in them. People around avoidants should just get smarter and learn everything about it. I think anxious people can still be held accountable therefore I think the solution is to make anxious people smarter...
@nugget6635 That's a pretty cruel thing to wish on anyone. "Stay lonely forever"? That sounds like you want avoidant folks to be punished forever rather than healing themselves and finding love (in whatever form).
I hope you’re taking care of yourself and getting professional help. We all end up with forms of insecure attachments through no fault of our own. So get all the support you need. A therapist is a great place to start. I also recommend healing attachment wounds through friendships, as the stakes and demands can feel lower and safer. And whatever you do, don’t listen to those that say you should stay alone forever. They’re just hurting very much too, and that kind of pain can be blinding. Oh, and another amazing YT channel for this kind of stuff is Heidi Priebe. Check her videos out. She’s amazing!
@@nugget6635it's not about people being unnecessary, you haven't understood. These are people who have survived traumas, and it feels like something massive and overwhelming that makes them leave. If you've ever suffered a panic attack, well the feeling is a bit like that. I'm not saying what they do is right, but please work on your own healing, be aware of the effect you have on others, hurting people you've never met with unkind comments, who have done you no wrong, is not right either. Better to let go and take yourself out of the messed up energy of whoever hurt you. If you're healed you will attract secure people in future.
An avoidant says "You trapped me!" A narcissist says "You're trapped!"
Might be triggering, moving below:
A narcissist says, "it's your fault you feel trapped. And have you thought of my feelings? Don't you think I feel trapped and, worse, embarrassed, by being in a relationship with you? You're clearly the lucky one in the relationship. I do so much for you"
Etc and much bullshit more.
Okay, but as someone who's been fighting about whether or not I'm a narcissist, this video made me cry. I realized that I'm not. I'm just avoidant with anger issues. Everything you said about the avoidant I resonate with. Thank you for starting to make videos, Jimmy. You've really helped my growing process
He has said in another video that a true narcissist would never ask himself that question. So the fact that you're even willing to ask yourself that and learn about it says a whole lot. I wish you the best on your healing journey!
An avoidant still has empathy but a narcissist doesn't
Incorrect. Avoidants can also have impaired empathy responses.
Avoidants tend to have empathy on their terms..IE: If they have some sort of experience or when they feel "up to it' . Narcs delight in your pain, and especially if they cause it. They will manipulate your pain for their nefarious purposes.
I would argue... None of them have any empathy whatsoever. Thing is... Narcissists are meaner, more aggressive, more impulsive... An avoidant can be a well put together person however empathy is just not there. Insecure people either have defficient empathy or a total lack of it. Only secure people have full empathy and it's a limited resource even in secure people.
A narc isn't necessarily malignant like that. But it is true malignant narcissists are sadists. So actually narcissists have negative empathy. Avoidants just don't have any. In my opinion avoidants might not be sadists but have the exact same amount of empathy as narcissists and antisocials. Major difference between narcissists and avoidants is... validation seeking. Narcissists seek validation that's basically it.
@@nugget6635 I'm an avoidant autistic person. Hi. I most likely have more empathy than most people, but I internalize it because it's very overwhelming for me and to protect myself, as a trauma response. Avoidants definitely have empathy. We've just been so hurt by others, we turned out this way.
I'm an old man now at 64 but you young man are very smart and have good insight. God bless you Keep helping people. So many don't understand what love is.
You're not old unless you've thrown in the towel. I'm 67 and feel 25.
64 is not old 😮
Exactly!
I was surprised to read his comment!
64 is not old
Avoidants ''dismiss' also because of manipulation, or perceived manipulation, esp when the other person doesn't know how to regulate their own emotions too well. Hard for them to trust, and they're trying to see what the person is about by their opening up. A narcissist will outright dismiss/invalidate someone, regardless of whichever insecure att style they may have because, simply they feel they take first place and you don't count as much.
thank you, so well put !
Narcissists need to be admired publicly. That's the dead giveaway. Could be fame, sports, stage, politics, pulpit, PTA, HOA, military, medicine, non-profit, charity, social justice warrior, or arm candy/money. It's all about being admired by others. It's all about keep up (public) appearances and manipulating others and controlling their public persona.
so if his room is full only of his medals (sport or military) and not one photo of his 5 year gf? Then he's probably more narc than avoidant?
Only overt or grandiose Narcissists. There are many types of supply and Narcissists. Then need attention, and it can easily come from victimhood such as illness, poverty, bad relationships etc, or it can show up not in being seen as the best, but in undercutting competition.
@@FreshStart2024-qg8zm Could be either or neither, but Grandiose Narcissists are more likely to have arm candy partners which they show everyone, especially if they have an ex- to hurt. But that is only one type of Narcissist. To understand anyone, look at the bigger picture and their actions more widely, rather than one behaviour. It's possible he just never thought to have a photo of someone he sees all the time. Some people don't grow up with a lot of photos so that it doesn't occur to them. Give him a pic and see if he displays it. Look at whether you were love-bombed, or if he is there for you when you are down and out/ inconvenient/ not able to be there for him (e.g. when sick). Consider whether his love is conditional on you doing some things, and his happiness always more important than yours etc.
3:31 “…and this isn’t a popular opinion but the truth is anxiously-attached partners have just as many issues as the avoidant.” Thank you, sir! You have no idea how validating that feels. ❤
so you have another reason to blame your ex u pushed away? lol
@@michaelmich00Pretty much. Never mind they probably created the anxiously attached person’s reactions. I have always been very independent but in the ENGAGEMENT I am in lol with an avoidant who pretended to not be so for years… Until we got engaged, bought a house and moved in together. Then the relationship started playing out in the same manner as his parents because this is what you do when you move in together and get engaged apparently. I started feeling the tendency to he anxious due to his behaviors towards me every day. It was basically a brainwashing… He is in therapy now for what his mind automatically told him was the way you behave once you move in together. 😂 You get engaged, move in together and then start having totally separate lives with no love or intimacy, all separate friends and outings with said friends, no dates, no celebrations together but I should be interested in consistent sex regardless of all of this. Nope! Not if we don’t have any relationship here… I wouldn’t have sex with a guy I wasn’t engaged to if he treated me this way so why do you get sex when we have no relationship, just because I technically have a ring? What people witness as kids and just how much they absorb without realizing then act out in their own lives… Even decades later is absolutely wild.
@@michaelmich00 Mean comment of the day award 🥇
Anxious partners always feel they are in the right to push and prod their avoidant partners because "they are only looking for love".
They do what their anxious attachment style dictates for them to do to feel safe from their own unhealthy place, and yet villainize the avoidant for doing the same.
Both people are unhealthy and are hurting their partner from their woundedness.
The difference is the anxious is much more likely to blame only the avoidant and use words like Narcissist.
For there to be any hope for the relationship both partners need to get healing for their past hurts, and to help the other heal by showing compassion and understanding.
@@EsseQuamVideriSe7en❤️
Unfortunately Anxious and Avoidants get together all too often and two unhealthy people start something Sue Johnson calls "The Dance".
It will take two people working on themselves, and then later together, to hopefully make things work, but it can start with you working on yourself.
Knowing it's both of you is definitely worth knowing but you can only work on one person and that's you.
“Do they respect your boundaries- do they even CARE what they are..”
A friendly reminder to my dear fellow avoidants: Your needs are not less important than your anxious partner’s needs. You are not a bad person just because you are an avoidant attachment type and they’re not a good person just because they are an anxious attachment type who “just wants some love”.
If you’re like me then you probably would LOVE to meet the needs of your loved ones if you COULD. But sometimes you’re just crawling in your skin and hating yourself to death because you think you SHOULD want to give them what they need right now. But you’re not a machine. You need to heal and you deserve love and respect too ❤
I’ve realised that right now (1) I’m unable to have someone depend on me and (2) I’m unable to meet someone else’s emotional and physical needs. That’s why I’ve decided I’ll not have children and that I’ll not start a relationship until I’ve healed. You’re not a bad person for prioritising your health and needs ❤ you’ve been hurt and it’s not your fault, but you can always choose to work on yourself in order to have a better life ❤
Exactly… if they don’t care about hurting you, belittle you, don’t respect your boundaries, are okay going to sleep while you’re crying because they did something that you’ve already told them hurts you, dismiss your feelings and tell you they’re trying to bring you back to reality or that you have mental issues and need to get help, tell you how amazing their friends wives are and what all they do when you do everything they ask of you, lie to their friends about you so they think poorly of you, tell you that you have no reason not to trust them when they’ve lied repetitively to you and been unfaithful, just run…
😂
I love the plants in the background, they create a calm atmosphere.
❤
I think the most important thing he stated in the beginning is that the label you give it doesn’t matter. The behavior matters. How you’re treated matters. He went on to compare the two labels for information purposes. But ultimately he’s right. The label we give it is just a label to explain some poor behaviors. And as someone who was far too willing to believe that a label meant something could then be fixed- do not go into a relationship as a fixer. It will break you down and the other person has no understanding to give you. Let them fix themselves. What you owe yourself is a relationship where you wake up content. It’s not always going to be fireworks. But you know they are on your side and they’re willing to go the distance and want to see you content and happy, and you feel the same for them.
do not go into a relationship as a fixer. It will break you down.... Well said
It does matter. And because it does matter everyone need to label. If everyone want to drink water we can say that water is a need for humans. I think they are missing something. The relationship or the break up must make sense. We need this. Otherwise we have lots of questions. But when you use concepts it gets very easiy. Using concepts is not labeling and avoidant or nar. is not labels they are concepts.
I wasted 9 years being a "fixer", it got me nothing but PTSD, and the ex wasn't fixed. Through counseling, I began healing. We hear a great deal about trauma bonding, this video explains it.
So good. They should be self-aware enough to be on their own path to healing and changing their life. When one goes in as a fixer, you’re attempting to change someone who doesn’t even understand that there is an issue to begin with. I was in that situation in my past relationships and ended up being viewed as nagging, critical, etc. I just wanted to help improve them into a better version of themselves.
@@BillundBerrieswhy would you want to improve anyone? My exbf used to say that he wants to better me by criticizing every tiny bit of what i do ... In my mind, If one forces an improvement on anyone, that one is no better than a narc, sorry.
I think it’s important to bring up and discuss attachment styles. You can’t heal what you don’t know/understand.
I was getting tired of people villianizing avoidants, but thank you for touching on that topic
Thank you for the validation. I dated an avoidant and I was madly in love with him. I discovered attachment styles when I was going crazy trying to figure out what was going wrong.
I went back and forth for months- is he a narcissist? Is he an avoidant?
We didn’t work out. I’m finally almost completely healed a year later.
And though I tried everything I possibly could, we just didn’t work out in the end.
Everything you’ve said is completely accurate, I knew he didn’t have malicious intent, yet I kept getting hurt. Which is why I stayed and went back as much as I did. We really did love each other. But he triggered my anxiety and I just couldn’t control it because I’d never get the reassurance I verbally asked for.
When I’m with a secure man (which I have been) my anxiety calms down and goes away after about 3 months, as long as I’m reassured.
Now that I know I have an anxious attachment style, I’m working on my healing, so that I don’t hurt my secure partner in the future.
Can you make a video on that? On ways an anxious partner can become more secure? Or a video on healing the attachment style, if that’s even possible?
If you already have a video like that I would love to watch it!!! I want to be the best partner I can be.
Thank you so much. I feel so validated and all my confusion is now in the past! :)
You should watch videos about becoming securely attached by Heidi Priebe.
Everything you shared resonated with me 😢
I absolutely love and appreciate your content so much. Thank you for all you do Jimmy
Oh thanks so much!
I remember him saying often: I dont know what to say when i tried to communicate. (He talked with lots confidence in public, quick thinker)
But very quiet with me, showed no interest, no follow up questions, every little thing i asked took long bench, never knew when or if i would get help etc
He agreed it was easier talking superficial around others.
So i said talk about anything (simple, surface)
He said i dont know what to talk about
He had nothing to say to me
That hurt
I often heard replies; i dont know
Asked upfront why he still was with me in a relationship?
I dont know
At the end he lied more often and started drinking, never knew when he would come home partying
I was forced to take the decision at the end to end it.
I know he has empathy deep inside but not used to talk. Put up wall immediately
One time he said something openly that he and a another guy had agreed on they both had no empathy
He said it was his fault at the end but acted like nothing ever happened and we were buddies.
1 decade relationship.
Never really knew him, felt many times like a stranger like my narc father 😢 very similar traits but not the same still
I understand my part today as the helper, its no good idea.
You slowly loose yourself and give all away.
So no more relationships.
Better alone now on, i recieve more connection and love from my cat
❤
Thank you, I needed to hear this today. I am going to say “thank you, next”, to someone who is not investing in me, instead of chasing their attention.
That was incredibly enlightening. This explains to me why my husband withdraws so often, why he has difficulty with intimacy, why he avoids talking about what he needs and fulfills his needs secretly and through lies. Now I understand better why he often just closes himself off and why he prefers to only have professional contacts. I feel that he has no bad intentions and that he doesn't want to hurt me. He does it anyway with his silence and his lies. I often have the impression that he wants to repair the damage by being helpful. He cannot understand what feelings his behavior triggers. I can explain how this came about from his family history. He now has therapeutic help. I'll see what happens. Anyway, thank you very much for this post.
Thank you. I was raised by a narcissist, I married a narcissist and was with him for 14 years, divorced and now with someone else for 3.5 years and it’s feeling the same as my ex husband because he is an avoidant. Just learned this from the “Secure Love” book. I’m the anxious. His mother is a narcissist too, of course he wasn’t showing any signs in the beginning until we moved in together, after 2 years. He pulled away hard and I felt like he didn’t even want me here with him, I feel like I’m standing in the corner and he’s doing everything else around me, work, working on cars, working on everyone else’s cars, and ignoring me. Intimacy is not even on the table. It’s been 5 months, I got him to go to counseling but used that and the stress of work to say he’s not in the mood for intimacy. I feel mad at myself at the same time for not being able to see this sooner, and that this feels exactly like my narcissistic ex husband but as a previous follower said, the avoidant does have empathy, but it still feels sooooo similar and it’s killing me once again to be ignored, and not prioritized and that I need to be doing all the relationship work, or plan the dates…I’m so sad because I feel I AM at that point where I have tried everything and now he isn’t going to counseling anymore, and doesn’t see there is anything going on with him despite NUMEROUS times explaining that my needs aren’t being met…I’m in the stage of hating and blaming my narcissistic mother and his…this is so unfair. I worked so hard on myself before dating again and thought I found someone good. He is reading the “Secure Love” book with me, but the question will be for how long…? I’m sorry for everyone who has or is going through this. My heart goes out to you all. ❤ Thank you for this Jimmy. ❤️ It’s sometimes needing to hear this outloud to confirm that I’m not being mean or making this stuff up, that all of what you said, IS happening. Thank you. ❤️
I'm so sorry you're going through this. If he's reading the book that's a good sign he wants to change - but it's going to take time. If his mother treated him badly, he may have no idea what a healthy relationship is supposed to look like..... I hope you can work through this together ❤
@kellysandblom6508 - I feel your frustration. The struggle is real! Do you feel like an afterthought? Does it get to the point where you are grateful for scraps bc you got anything at all? Did you ever hear yourself thinking or saying "but I'm not a needy/clingy person", I just want someone who shows more attention to my needs (ie, basic loving/caring speech & behavior)? Let alone some communication... That's where I'm at. Lord help us
@kellysandblom I pray you realize that your mother isn't the blame for his behavior, and neither are you. Sending you Positive Energy and Much Love ❤️
yep. Im in the thick of it too, 37yrs. Thank You too.
Girl RUN, and fast. It will never get better. I know, because I feel like I wrote your post, and he never got better. I just wasted years of my life hoping he will care more about me than he cared about others, but he never did. After many years I fanally was able to manage to leave, and my life solo is 200% better than it was with him. Love and cherish yourself. What you got with him is what you have, he already got you and now his "job" is done, he doesn't need to work anymore on relationship. Start prioritizing yourself, and leave, then he will wake up when realizes that he lost you. It's a game. Mine was never there for me, but wanted to be for me when I left. No thanks. Good luck to you and don't waste your time.
My most recent two relationships were a narcissist (35 years, father of my children) and a fearful avoidant (recent boyfriend). Jimmy, you are spot on. Although the other major difference between the two - an avoidant can get help, is accountable, and can heal. A narcissist never will.
It is the worst feeling in the world to live with an avoidant type. They are so indifferent and look so happy and content. It eats up at your soul and makes you feel diminished. I’m 70 and I don’t have the strength or means to leave.
I feel your pain. I've been in thos for 27 years now....I knew it was a mistake practically in the honeymoon. But, I was raised that you don't get a divorce. Now we have two children. Teens. So, I feel I have to stay for them. It's exhausting and draining and sadly, I'm seeing the same patterns in my boys now.
Boy that hit hard when you said it is a problem with me when I am trying to heal the other person. That was me 40 plus years ago.
I’m so grateful for this content. I’ve been describing myself as a recovering narcissist for years but now I don’t think I ever was truly a narcissist. Selfish and self centered but not full on narcissistic. I’m very mindful of how I interact with others now and have apologized where I could but I’ve a lifetime of mindfulness ahead of me to atone for my previous behavior - and because it’s the right thing to do. I’m just relieved to know that I wasn’t as bad as I thought.
U are So brave.
I've often wondered if I was a Narc like my mother
But No, just self centered, but loving and giving to others, especially children and animals.
God help us 💜
I understand, and hope, that I was an avoidant partner. My ex had a narcisistic parent and at our worst, she'd tell me I reminded her of her parent. Now I see why.
I didn't know I was an avoidant. But all Jimmy said is how I felt. I regret a lot. I keep her in my heart, as a lesson and I want to be better so no one else feels like she felt with me.
Wow, wish my husband could get to that point. Kudos to you!
Liar 😂
This is a beautiful message. I love the point that the label doesn't matter. The fact is, one can never actually know the intentions of another - even if they say something about their intentions and you believe, it may not have been true. The behavior and a reliable track record over lots of time is everything. Thank you.
As a fearful avoidant - so sometimes I show up as anxious attachment, sometimes as avoidant, I can say from experience that anxious attachment is not a lack of fear of intimacy - because when someone is emotionally present the avoidant feelings come up. So anxiously attached rarely are comfortable with real intimacy also.
Thank you for clarifying this. I am so sick of the narc/empath blame game. Look to attachment and take responsibility for our own patterns is the way toward healing. I am in a relationship with an avoidant and I think I am disorganized. Life is not fun😅 most days. Trauma bonding disguised as love going on 30 years! Thank God we have you tube for therapeutic help today!
You should get a medal for surviving 30years. I survived 12 and it was 11,5 years too many. Trauma bonding is a beast. We get screwed in our childhood and the results are visible through our adulthood. So whoever messed us up, not only messed up our childhood, but also our adulthood. It seems to never end🧐
I’ve also been married to an avoidant for 32 years and counting. I’d try to keep all my complaints in so he wouldn’t withdraw and eventually I’d blow up and he’d withdraw and nothing would change and he blamed me for having a bad temper and I accepted the blame because I felt bad for always being angry. Finally we found Sue Johnson and the light bulb went on. With new understanding and awareness we are figuring this out.
@@babycakes8434 well said!!!
You shouldn’t say that to someone just exiting a relationship with a narcissist. There are stages to healing. Telling someone to take a look at their side right away is not helpful and very invalidating
Yes they both struggle with feelings of shame and unworthiness! ⭐️
Wow! I am so proud of myself for coming so far to the point where I can watch this video without reacting emotionally, actually understanding and agreeing to what is being said and seeing how I have implemented the things you say into my life. I have become and continue to become the adult i needed as a child, I am so proud of myself I’m literally crying 😭😭😭. Thank you for posting this and being so compassionate in your delivery ❤❤❤
The man whom I love has been Avoidant the entire time I have known him. I have had my own Avoidant Attachment Style to heal. I was Fearful Avoidant until just recently.
I love him with all of my heart and soul. And I am giving him the space he needs. God bless him. ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
It’s so fun going to marriage counseling alone. Yeah, I did that. Why it took that for me to wake up and truly understand I was the only one working on staying together. Not that my ex didn’t want to stay together, he did, just as long as I did everything the way he wanted and put him first in all areas of our life.
Having had both narc followed by avoidant I was really confused at first because I thought I knew the signs but I didn't know about attachment. Once I understood I had more compassion for my avoidant ex and I felt less scared that I made another huge misjudgement.
Yep I still don’t know whether my 2nd was another narc or an avoidant. I lean avoidant but it’s so hard to tell because she took actions that clearly would hurt and disrespect any partner and just displayed 0 fucks whatsoever about doing it even when I was displaying clear distress. I’ve already realized either way it doesn’t matter because I don’t deserve such treatment, period, and that’s why so immediately left, but it stays in your brain because it just seems to come out of left field and all of a sudden you’re dealing with someone who is completely cold and doesn’t seem to care at all when before they were saying how wonderful you are, how much they love you, how you’re the best man they could ask for. It’s simply maddening
@@OneManCollaboration yes it is that complete flip of affection that causes such a shock...it's not a gradual decline that can be noticed and potentially addressed it is...love you...don’t love you !! Game over!
@@Growwithgrace101 Yep it’s blindsiding and heart breaking. Lesson learned!
@OneManCollaboration not sure how you avoid it as they come off as very much in love....I had 3 years of bliss until his switch flipped. Literally I love you on Friday I don't love you on Sunday. So there was nothing I could do....I didn't see it coming at all.
@@Growwithgrace101 Yep. It’s just simply insanity. I feel sorry for myself and others who have had to go through such things. It absolutely erodes trust and wounds you at a very deep level
No need to devalue and discard people like NPD tactics do when recognizing another is not in secure attachment... the kind thing to do is recognize another's true Capabilities and respect that 😁🌸
This was one of your best! Your sensitivity and kindness and straight-talk is much appreciated!
Please thank your wife for her humble willingness to support your sharing of experiences that must have been painful for you both, and your desire to help others. ❤ Thanks to you both!
Pointing out he is avoidant is saving our marriage. He had no idea for years. He now can deal with his issues.
Thankyou for a glimmer of hope
I appreciate the clear distinction between the narcissist and avoidant. Mostly, how this video is not about a showing a villain and a victim but instead it talks about two human beings who have engaged in dysfunctional patterns of behavior, and then elaborates on how to recognize and react to change that dynamic.
🎈Intent. 🎈That’s the deciding factor. A true narcissist plays the “power-over long game.” Zero humility. Most people are avoidants. The Unintentional “jerk.” 😮Thanks Jimmy this is great. Love how you help people to pivot. ❤
Great video. I would be interested in a video on comparing and contrasting BPD with anxious attachment style too. Great video and will be picking up that book as well.
Jimmy, I think you have just given me the best advice ever. You just saved my life. Not just emotionally but physically. I believe you just triggered a little me inside and the willingness to stand up against something I felt powerless against. Going through my divorce I realized I am that anxious partner doing and allowing everything you just mentioned. Thank you for this boost. You touched my heart, my childhood and darkness. I believe now I know where to heal from. Thank you!
I have formed compassion for Anxious/Fearful Avoidant/Dismissive Avoidants/Narcissists. None of us chose to become like this. This does not mean we have to remain in the relationship. However, ask yourself the question: who is it serving to hold on to Anger/Resentment/Fear? Is it serving you? Is it serving them? We all shared (and some of us continue to share) the same Void. Best focus on working on yourself to find ways to fill your Void by other means (i.e. Spirituality), by taking responsibility for your part in a difficult and toxic relational dynamic and if the other person is failing to be accountable, take responsibility, then that is your cue move on gracefully. There is no point trying to change the other person - this is an outcome based, controlling and manipulative approach; whether you are an anxious preoccupied or an avoidant/narcissist. See them for what they are and if you are unhappy, move on. Trauma bonding will lead to betrayal of oneself and the other, pain and more pain for yourself and others. Is this what you want?
In the most platonic way, Jimmy, I'm so in love with your videos and podcast. I'm anxiously attached and working on myself. You explain it in SUCH an accessable way, which is SO helpful. I do feel sometimes I need a checklist of things to look for from anyone avoidant, professionally, platonically, or romantically. As you know, red flags are hard for me to see when I've only grown up having to accept all the worst red flags as the f**** norm, which is beyond frustrating. Thank you so much for listing these traits all out. It's so helpful to have it spelled out so freaking clearly.
Watching this video was hard because it's super triggering/angering because I've been through so much garbage with avoidantly attached people. And my brain is just going, "yep, yes, uhu, totally, been there" while watching this, and it still makes me so sad and regretful and angry that I wasted 10+ years on people who just didn't care about me, romantically and platonically. As the codependent "I'll fix your problems because I'm a 'good person' " I've just allowed people to trample all over me and take complete and utter advantage of me. It makes me enragingly angry, and leaves me feeling so so stupid, like I should have been able to see them for what they were all along.
Now I'm able to look back at situations and see, "oh, they said this or did this, and they WERE giving me clues they were just going to take advantage of me," but I still walked right into the mess they were in and allowed their problem to become my problem. And their problem got solved, but I'm stuck with the loss of money, lack of a healthier social circle due to wasting my time on them, loss of time I could have spent with someone who actually did care about me, etc.
I feel very much that in a nutshell, anxiously attached people come off as socially retarded, who "can't get a clue" (missing red flags) and just let everyone treat them like shit because we are used to being treated that way, so what is actually completely horrible treatment feels completely normal. It grosses me out now. I just wish I had known I was like this 20 years ago. Would have saved me SO much money, so much time, so much hurt and anger.
Not everyone has money to go to therapy, but most everyone can watch your videos and videos like yours from wise people such as yourself. Hopefully people see themselves, or their siblings, or their parents, or their partners, in these videos and gets some starting guidance from there.
Im an empath who turns avoidant when Im shown by a partner I cannot trust them to treat me right. It's not ideal, but I NEVER want to argue, and NEVER want to hurt anyone... I want to reiterate what Jimmy said. If they wont respect your boundaries - they dont love you. In my grieving state (10 years in, 2 years out)
These videos are amazing. I am codependent and I’ve been married for 34 years. I’m now certain that my husband is dismissive avoidant. I feel really guilty because after so long trying to get through to him I have become so angry that I sometimes get abusive. He ignores me and I escalate and shout and name call. This dynamic is really toxic. Both of us end up feeling terrible. My self esteem has been really low and the angry behaviour makes me feel even worse about myself. I’ve come to realise that we were never suited to each other but we have children and a life together. A whole history. I know my husband is not a bad person and I want our marriage to work and to improve because now we are facing retirement together. I am finally healing from my codependency because I found the right therapist. I am finally accepting that I cannot change my husband and I’m working on my anger. I wish I had the type of information in these videos earlier.
Thank you Jimmy!!! Such a timely word & reminder for me. I’ve talked several times this past week with my highly narcissistic Ex of 19 years as we are at the tale end of a 4 year divorce process.
He’s trying to feel me out & talking about reconciliation. He has pretended to be changed but so much evidence to the contrary.
He’s still using his covert tactics & manipulations to try to convince me that he’s avoidant but not narcissistic. No accountability or ownership for himself.
He’s still using DARVO on me & he can’t stand any truth that I tell him.
He was a cop for 31 years so he knows how to handle people. I was the person he handled. I was in the cult of Mike but by God’s grace I got out.
Truly death by a thousand cuts after living with his manipulation & psychological abuse. I’m slowly healing and finding me again. The trauma bonds run deep.
As the Bible says, I won’t be a dog who goes back to their vomit, & I’m not going back to Pharaoh & bondage in Egypt 🙏
You are spot on! I am an avoidant. I’ve been married four times and been in several relationships. Marriages were all toxic except one, but I didn’t give him a chance cause I was out of there six weeks after we were married. I totally freaked out and he treated me like a princess. But I was too afraid to stay. I’ve been in several relationships and as soon as it starts getting close I run. I absolutely hate being like this. It just comes out of nowhere and there’s no stopping it. All I want is a good healthy, normal relationship, but pushing through this fearful reaction seems almost impossible.😢
Are you willing and able to get help for your destructive tendencies or for your dysfunctional traits and actions?
Because if you are, that makes all the difference.
If someone is able to look beyond their Own ways of dealing with relationships, trauma or life or even daily issues, then there is hope for you and hope for having a good relationship.
@@Random-JustAnother yes, I am willing to get help, but I cannot afford to get professional help, but God has healed me from a lot since my last marriage,in the last three years. I am able to see what is going on now. I just need to be healed. But God is the healer and I know it will be OK. I just have to be more aware I am being triggered and going into those tendencies. Having toxic abusive husbands only made it worse for me to try and get into a new relationship. Thanks for your reply.
God often leads me to good free resources. Try inner bonding with Margaret Paul, also Kyle Benson. Work on regulating your nervous system (meditation helps). Good luck! My husband has improved a lot! Learn imago to listen to others.
Hey, Jimmy. So I was (intentionally) watching your "How I SAVED My Marriage" video just a few moments ago in front of my wife, & when the video ended, she told our 3 year old that "Dad's trying to therapy Mom." Then she asked me how my "therapy session" went, & then asked me if I was gonna "Spout my guru stuff at her". & I Love this woman. But I don't know if I can even get through to her. I don't want to burden her with how I'm feeling because I communicate that I need her attention, & I get brushed to the wayside. & I know that I have work to do on myself, & I've been doing what I can when I can because not only is my family important to me but I am too. I understand that things will be slow-going, but if she doesn't even want to engage in anything to work on in our relationship, then I don't want to hold her or myself back from having a happy life. I'd rather be with her, but I don't tolerate disrespect like that, & I have admittedly clammed up at her words but that's because I don't know what to do or say. I don't want to cut myself off from her, & I want to be vulnerable but when she does stuff like that, it throws me off. If anyone reads this, thank you for taking that time to do so.
Dude, she obviously doesn't want to work on your marriage. This behavior is just awful disrespect and attempt to humiliate you in answer to your actions to improve your relationship. It's not normal. Еspecially in front of the child. It's not only your relationship, you need two people to make it work. If you wanna be happy - think twice
This is a sad situation. You are trying your best but it isn't working. It's got to be a 50/50 effort. I would suggest, if you really aren't making any headway, that you consider how you will parent your child - do you want custody, if the worst happens? Prepare yourself for that and the financial side of separation because it never hurts to do so. Perhaps give yourself a time limit - if nothing changes in 6 months, then maybe you will be ready to make the decision to improve *your* life and leave her to hers.
Your wife's contempt for you will not go away. Better to start working on an exit strategy than to waste more time on this failed relationship.
The most important thing that you say, and i wish i had understood this long ago, is that labeling them isn't the goal. The goal is asking yourself how YOU FEEL around this person! I wasted a lot of time and energy trying to figure the other person out, rather than asking myself how i felt around him. I needed to learn to "set boundaries" but i had no idea how.
Working on my avoidance tendencies getting into a relationship with someone who has narcissistic tendencies created a recipe for disaster. Unfortunately already married and have a child so makes everything a lot more complicated going forward. The biggest eye opener for me was when my marriage counselor told me that I need to stop being so attached to the idea that I can heal my partner and that at the end of the day having a boundary of at some point I will have to leave the relationship if things aren’t getting better. It really hit hard but it also changed my mindset so drastically that a lot of things really started to come into focus. Have tried so many times to work on things together and come together and still get comments like “your dad doesn’t care about us eating today” while I’m getting ready for work after cooking lunch for my wife and daughter.
Thank you this video! It’s like narcissism is a new hammer and everyone is a nail. Narcissism is the explanation for all varieties of toxic relationship these days and it makes it incredibly hard to repair fixable relationships.
This sums up my entire marriage, except him leaving me repeatedly and name calling me amongst other things. Eventually i couldnt hold it together any further and walked away myself.
Ugh, Mine has threatened to leave multiple times over our last 32 years of marriage. This week, it was ANOTHER one of those. This time, though, I am not in a spot to so quickly "forgive and restore". He told me, among other things, that he doesn't want me. I am just, dead inside. Probably doing some sort of avoidant behavior. But, I have no idea. I feel so confused and messed up in my own head that it is hard to even see things clearly- starting with my own feelings. Now, he is flipping the "conversation" and saying things like "If YOU want me to leave".... But also emailing me information about his life insurance policy, with his policy number. And also telling me he loves me and wants to stay married. But also bringing up something that I wrote in my journal 11 years ago, that he had NO right to read anyhow. And NO, it is not information about me cheating. It was me writing about a "fantasy" of being able to just lie back and stare up at the ceiling just talking to a trusted friend who I always felt totally safe with and who I knew I could trust for solid advice and kindness and compassion- no judgment about how I talk or how wordy I am or how dumb my ideas are... ALL of this in a timeframe of less than 5 days. Yuck. And I am supposed to make decisions NOW? And wait, HE is the one that said he is leaving me. How did it circle around and get put on MY plate?
So what do you think he was?
What you listed is familiar to me
This is such a powerful message for me.
I was definitely a full blown Avoidant before discovering Attachment Theory just over a year ago.
This video explains my behaviours so clearly. How I acted in shame to any attempts at constructive critisizm by my partner and how I would run away to the highest mountain top to manage my emotions instead of coming closer to my partner and connecting with her as I now know she intended.
I had no idea I feared vulnerability! I wouldn't let myself feel any emotions. It was avoid, avoid, avoid. And how could I show empathy for the pain I was causing my partner when I had zero empathy for myself and my pain. I couldn't.
I can see why my partner would think I am a narcissist. I was so selfish. But it's so true that I learned long ago, in childhood and in my first serious relationship (which ended so badly), that I couldn't trust anyone to look after my own needs but myself. I was wrong about that. I can see now that, at one time, my partner of 20 years was a safe place before I hurt her so badly she shut down.
The only thing that I believe this video falls short on is that sometimes Avoidants do get the message (and yes, unfortunately, it most likely takes a catastrophe event, like a separation, to be the catalyst for the change, like in my csse) and they are willing to do the work. But that at this point the partner is often beyond wanting to try.
I know Jimmy was Anxious (I assume he's mostly Secure now) and so this video is told from an Anxious point of view. Avoidants are easy to demonize and compare to narcissists and to be discarded because they appear to be so hard and unfeeling.
In my case, I can say I am not unfeeling. As I've learned more about myself I realize I have to allow my feeling to just be, not to avoid them. In this way I am learning to have empathy for myself and others.
I realize I might have learned this all too late to save my relationship but let me encourage Avoidants to do the work and to get healthy (Secure). If it's too late for your current relationship this work will carry over to the next one.
One last comment. I feel Anxious people seldom see their own unhealthy dynamic in the relationship because they believe their intention, of getting love, is good. They don't realize their pushing and prodding activates their partner. Neither partner knows the other well, and this leads to the relationship deteriorating.
Jimmy, your insights are simply amazing. Thank you for your work.
I recently found out that I'm an Avoidant person. And im sorry for all of the pain I've caused people in my past relationships. Now, I have been married for almost 10 years to my husband, and I apologize to him constantly for my actions at the beginning of our marriage/relationship. And I'm currently working in therapy to better myself. I want to be bettwr for him. He's my world. 😊
Ty for this post! You hit everything on the head. You’ve helped me move forward.
I want to be with him
He broke up three times
Now he came back around
Now I’ve been on read for a week
He even said „I didn’t break up I just needed a childish time-out“
He even quoted what I said a few weeks ago
He broke up with me a mth ago. Probably went and got more supply. We broke up bc he couldn't stay sober. And couldn't stop lying to everyone about it.
Then yesterday he texts me to say he's going to rehab. He got on a plane last night . But he still doesn't want to be with me. . He's projecting his problem on me saying I have a problem with pills. In which I've been sober for 7yrs. Using my past against me just so he doesn't have to say he was the problem. Told his whole family I'm addicted to pills. I was mortified. Yesterday he told them the truth.
I'm so mad bc why didn't you go get help when I asked? But happy for him bc he's taking accountability..
Well said.... All the love in the world can't fix what's broken in an avoidant.
The thing is, secure people get into relationships with narcissists and avoidants, especially if they don't have knowledge of those traits. A secure person would leave when they figured it out.
Not everyone is anxious.
So good to have you break down the differences, and characteristics of each. The avoidant is often the hardest to recognize is not what you want for security and trust. However the reasons they are there, that and their self-storage always damage a relationship and belies the things they say, and later can't follow through on.
This video is so compassionate and spot on. I think healing codependency was the most helpful change I made for myself. I think understanding behavior patterns and yourself is when this information really hits home. If connection isn't possible it's okay to grieve is powerful too! I love the way you described the ways that the patterns don't create connection and what someone both can do to create that connection. The fact the person may nor be a good fit for you is what really matters and loving yourself enough to look for what you need and deserve. I appreciate that there was not any negativity in this video. You always do a great job and I love the funny videos as well 😂 Humor and knowledge is awesome! Thank you for this video and all your other content. I've had years of therapy and I still love it! In the healing journey things become clear at random times so this knowledge is crucial 👌
Thank you. He actually IS a narcissist. His desire for absolute control was terrifying. His cruelty excited him, and it got worse and worse. Thank god i was able to move out, and have my own place again. I am healing...the damage was overwhelming. But the good thing is that this experience caused me also to heal wounds from childhood. So at least some good came from it.
You are the best Jimmie! Great work! Thank you.
This was the best comparison I have heard between distinguishing the narcissist vs avoidant. Thank you so much for your videos, they are helping me to move on from my avoidant ex. So much damage to my self worth, confidence and self love. Before I knew about attachment theory I wondered if I was suffering from narcissistic abuse but the differences you mentioned show what I was really dealing with. TY, TY, TY ❤
This was the best video I have ever seen.
The way it was all explained makes perfect sense. Thank you
I thought I had secure love, but setting boundaries lead to disconnect. It is soul crushing. I wanted to love them through their hurts and I NEEDED loved through mine.
I was in a toxic on and off relationship with an avoidant for ab five years and I was almost certain he was narcissistic. Until I dated my recent ex for a few months and realized the difference, it was insane. I had never felt so confused and misunderstood by a person and had completely lost myself in three short months trying to figure out why I wasn’t feeling safe and connected to him. This video was super beneficial, thank you!
As an avoidant I was confused why I would be so engaged, caring, close at the beginning of a relationship but then somehow not.... at first I thought the relationship spark would get lost/it'd get boring... then I heard abt love bombing and questioned myself... was I doing that? But I had no bad intention... then I thought I am just a hypocrit at the beginning acting like I care and then letting people down. But no... I was/am avoidant. I want connection but I really dont know how to. Its always on the edges. I have to do so much at the beginning, "earn" it, and then I get so confused and pull back. I say to myself "its not working out anyway, I dont deserve it anyway"... so, if you have dealt with avoidants, dont be mad at us, it really is hard. But I believe that there is light at the end of the tunnel once you understand the problem!
It gets super tricky though when with a Neglectful Covert Narcissist- they are so subtle that they ACT more avoidant. They are so detached, it’s even harder to tell the difference if they are actually a narcissist or an avoidant.
so true! They don’t give outright put downs. They try to appear like the “good guy”.
Thank you. I think this is what I am experiencing. I think I'm going to die. I reached out for help today. I need out.
Along with bragging about being selfish as if that’s a good thing when you are claiming to love someone and wanting a relationship/partnership. Like whoa 🤯
I'm so happy I found your channel.
I've been on a mission to Inspire Self-Love after a Toxic relationship with many Narcissistic tendencies!
I am still on a healing journey and this was definitely helpful 💕
Thank you!!
Thank you very much for this video. ❤
I have been doing the 'self help' route for years but never heard of an avoidant. Everyone believes my husband is a Narcissist but I knew he was not. My father is.😂
I was calling my husband an "Ostrich" but after this video can see some areas where I have been making things worse.
I am long past the point of desiring a close relationship with anyone but am happy to be "single" with less conflict and unrealistic expectations while sharing an abode.
Once again thank you🥰
That was beautifully clear. Thank you
Wow! I'm so grateful for you and your work- and especially this explanation! This clarified so much for me!! And that is what I've been seeking for years. Now for the healing part.
The narcissist is more extreme on the avoidance spectrum and becomes entrenched in a cycle of toxic shame, which in turn either diminishes or eradicates their capacity for empathy.
I think avoidants can lack empathy in conflict and can hold long term resentment, but their empathy is otherwise intact.
Mine turned out to be a *orn addict amongst many other addictions. Addicts can behave very narcissistically.
Very true!
Drug addiction can bring out narcissistic tendencies as well. She numbs her pain with drugs and alcohol which makes her further incapable of connecting to people in a real, loving way, which I know she desperately wants. I pray for her healing (as well as mine) every day. Although I love her deeply, it can't work unless we're both 'in it to win it.' 😢💗
@@forestspritestephanie I'm sorry you're going through that. Hopefully you can go to counseling and encourage him to go to meetings with others.
My ex had an addictive personality and was bipolar depressive wow he was a hot mess Rip he's no longer on earth hope he found peace
This is one of the best, most thorough, must receivable message I’ve ever heard on this thread topic!!!
I don’t think all avoidants are narcissistic, but I believe ALL narcissists ARE avoidant!!!
Narcs can be any of the insecure att styles, one that's anxious will show up with big neediness, stalker-type behavior, the need to control their partner's every move, and be irrationally jealous, and break their partner to make them need them. Esp if the partner is more independent like DA. The anxious attached narc is more the vulnerable or covert type, and draws the person in with over-giving, so they feel bad about not showing gratitude for all the super generosity, and also victim mentality, with many sad stories so you feel sorry for them and try to comfort and be there for them.
*to explain better - the over generosity and lavish gifts being the initial lovebombing phase. And it works so bad on DA's who already don't like owing anyone anything, so they feel super guilty about it and that it's rude to not accept gifts.
They eventually discard when they can't break you, then you really feel like they saw you as a only pretty object, with no worth as a person to them, eye candy to have by their side and show you off, but they don't care at all about who you are, and try force you into their infatuation image of the submissive woman they thought you would be. They discard you by ignoring for days, leaving you on the floor if you collapsed sick, calling you a hypochondriac. Making you believe you're crazy, isolating you from every support, behaving with passive aggressiveness. Speaking scornfully and deriding you, laughing at you when you look upset. They criticize you and everybody else. Then look charming and sweet outside the home. The only thing to do is make your plans to leave, and go when they're not home, to prevent being hit etc. Trying to break up doesn't work, they'll always find something to manipulate you to stay, tears and emotional breakdowns, accusation about all they did for you, etc. Threats too, about what they'll do, like removing your co-worker from the planet for asking for help by email. So you blame yourself worrying about the other people in your life. This type of thing. Not allowing you to have a bank account, I forgot mention. He def wasn't a DA, I don't believe he was FA either, because of not showing avoidant behavior, so it leaves only that option, anxious. Took me years to realize it had been that too, knowledge is indispensable these days. See Dr. Ramani, she describes all the types of narcs and the att styles they can have.
You are so on point. I needed to hear exactly what you said. Thank you
One of the best videos on the subject. Thank you Jimmy.
I wish I could like 👍🏻 this video for 1000 times… I’m in tears 😭
Same ❤
The Holy Spirit is so in you. You are full of it ❤ it is so beautiful
Do you see the dichotomy between your first word and what you said after that?
May I gently suggest not blaspheming God's name while praising the Holy Spirit's presence? 💝🙏✝️
Wow!! Best video I’ve seen/heard yet for explaining these and the differences between the two. Thank you x 1000 🙏🏼
Every single word you said makes absolute sense. Thank you. ❤
His wife is blessed to have him! And why isn't he a counsellor or coach though!
His wife went through hell with him before he healed and became as awesome as he became. He's humble with humility.
Thank you for pointing out the importance of not throwing out labels. But when they also give to the relationship? I see this is more avoidant. But, can they grow? I hope to grow my entire life....can they? You never deserve to be called stupid. True. How do you point this out to a good person who has this communication problem? I observe A LOT. I see they self correct when given time. How does one introduce a boundry that feels....good for everyone?❤
Thank you Jimmy for unpacking this in such a clear way. You've found your calling and ironically it was born on the back of your own painful experiences which of course give credance to your insights now. I sometimes think that is one of the reasons we go through hardships in this life....to come out the other end of it and show the path to others. Bonsai!
You have summed this up so well! These are things I have thought intuitively and experienced. Thank you for breaking it down so eloquently! I love your insights. Blessings!