Nice build. This class is absolutely MADE for a 2 level dip into Magus. (Let's face it, you won't be doing much adventuring at level 19 & 20, but the added versatility that the magus dip will give you will be beneficial throughout the game). That said, be careful of spell selection if taking the dip. I'd avoid direct damage dealing spells (except maybe Magic Missile), as your save DC will only be 11. I'd also avoid the save or suck spells (Colour Spray, I'm looking at you) for the same reason. Stick to utility and protection type spells: Enlarge/Reduce Person, Expeditious Retreat, etc. Beware "Shield"... it's a trap. It won't stack with the shield bonus from Aldori Dueling Mastery feat as that is also a shield bonus (although you would get an extra 2 points of AC and invulnerability to MM, so not a total waste). Mage Armour would be fine to get one extra point of AC over studded leather and your +5 Dex bonus, but that will become obsolete very quickly.
Sorry to correct you but i think you mean "invulnerable" to debuffs and mind affecting spells. But yes I agree. It actually makes dwarfs good for a lot of classes really, that is partly why i used them for my Unusual Magus build
Just to be clear don't you have to turn off defensive parry in order to use disarm? That puts this class at odds with itself. You have to turn one key feature (and everything built around it) off in order to use the other. Because of that I'm struggling to get excited about this class. What are your thoughts? Any workarounds? Am I just wrong? (that would be great!)
I dont not believe you have to turn off defensive parry to use disarm but I have not played through far enough to get disarm yet to test that. If anyone else knows for sure please let us know.
@@rangertony It isn't that you have to turn it off. It's that it is only active if you've made a full attack. Disarming isn't considered a full attack so you never get the bonus.
Should I dip into sword saint for uncanny Dodge, seems like a must have in my opinion. What about dipping two levels into monk for wis to ac and crane style?
I would raise CON rather than INT as this affects your hit points which are more important than skills. Leave STR at 10 as you might carry some weight. WIS and CHA are dump stat and can be lowered to 8. DEX, as primary attribute, of course up to 18 and then to 20 with the race modifier human. Feats: Weapon Finesse and Weapon Focus Dueling Sword, of course, and later the Weapon Specialization.
I understand your reasoning but without Int of 13 you can never get Disarm and that means that 1 or 2 of the abilities you get will be useless. I do think it is a little weird that the class has abilities that require Disarm to work but you are not given it, you have to remember to get it yourself.
You are right. I just checked out my old char (it's been a while since I played him). His first level attributes were: STR 14, DEX 20, CON 14, INT 12, WIS 10, CHA 10. At 4th level, I raised INT to 13. Feats were: Level 1: exotic weapons proficiency (dueling sword), dodge, waepon finesse Level 2: weapon focus (dueling sword) Level 3: dazzling display (-> required for prestige class Swordlord) Level 4: weapon specialization (dueling sword) Level 5: combat expertise (that's what you need INT 13 for) Skills at level 5: Acrobatics 3, Intimidate 5, Climbing 1, Animal Handling 1, Sense Motive 3, Riding 1, Perception 1, Knowledge (Nobility) 3, Knowledge (Engineering) 1, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 1 As you need Intimidate 5 ranks, that's the earliest point you can enter the prestige class: www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/swordlord/
I do love the idea of a dex based aldori defender, with fighter you get so many extra feats so it makes up for the 3 feat tax to do damage from dex mod. I am in a tough spot on this game because I feel like I am always playing Aasimar. Do you think Aldori would work ok working with a prestige class by the way?
It is hard to tell much about prestige classes yet because I have not gotten far enough to be elligable for any and there is no information in the character creation about them, however I think 2 of the Aldori Defender feats actually reference their suitability for use with Duelists.
@RangerTony : Aldori and Duelist are obviously very close together, as witty counter-attacking dodgy high initiative opportunists; Dex as Dex can! ;D To reap the most benefit out of both classes, I would suggest going about 16 Aldori / 4 Duelist. -This way, you pay a tax of 4 fighter feats for gaining Combat Mobility (is improved for Duelist) , Dodge ( both are prerequisites) , Improved Initiative, and Combat Reflexes; all also not terrible for a pure Aldori. -Other than that, Duelist gains Int modifier to Dodge (+1 per Duelist level) , +1 Damage vs. Living per Duelist level, and the ability to possibly parry one attack for the price of one own attack, which is very likely better than it sounds at first glance. For the price of even a further Fighter feat, with 14-15 Ald / 5-6 Due, a succesful parry gives an AoO, at full attack. - The price, other than the feats, from the Fighter side here is one level of Weapon Training (at 17) , 5 DR (at 19), and increased Crit Modifier with auto-confirmed crits, at level 20. Only the last sounds quite hurting, if you can get even that far in the game, that is. :P 14 starting Int, before gear, as top and bottom. 19 Dexterity should be enough at the start. And, minmaxed would be 16 Constitution, while dumping Charisma. Race I like Half Elf here, for role-playing reasons, stat focus dexterity, and +2 will saves against enchantments. Skill Focus: Mobility, for the untouchable grace, and fitting the whole theme , no questions asked. Alas: Thanks for the undogmatic theory crafting, very appreciated! ;)
@@rangertony it's weird that it works that way in this game. You really only need agile maneuvers for things like grapple and bull rush in the P&P version of the game, because combat maneuvers made with weapons under weapon finesse automatically use Dex instead of strength
Can you have both Power Attack and Defensive Fighting active at the same time? And isn't Cleave a full attack action which would prevent you from using the AC buff you could get with the dueling sword? I'd like to see how this class mixes with Duelist.
Nice build. This class is absolutely MADE for a 2 level dip into Magus. (Let's face it, you won't be doing much adventuring at level 19 & 20, but the added versatility that the magus dip will give you will be beneficial throughout the game).
That said, be careful of spell selection if taking the dip. I'd avoid direct damage dealing spells (except maybe Magic Missile), as your save DC will only be 11. I'd also avoid the save or suck spells (Colour Spray, I'm looking at you) for the same reason. Stick to utility and protection type spells: Enlarge/Reduce Person, Expeditious Retreat, etc. Beware "Shield"... it's a trap. It won't stack with the shield bonus from Aldori Dueling Mastery feat as that is also a shield bonus (although you would get an extra 2 points of AC and invulnerability to MM, so not a total waste). Mage Armour would be fine to get one extra point of AC over studded leather and your +5 Dex bonus, but that will become obsolete very quickly.
The Dwarf's increased saves against spells makes them very good for warrior classes since they're vulnerable to debuffs and mind affecting spells.
Sorry to correct you but i think you mean "invulnerable" to debuffs and mind affecting spells.
But yes I agree. It actually makes dwarfs good for a lot of classes really, that is partly why i used them for my Unusual Magus build
So those defenders are basically bravosi water dancers from GoT
Just to be clear don't you have to turn off defensive parry in order to use disarm? That puts this class at odds with itself. You have to turn one key feature (and everything built around it) off in order to use the other. Because of that I'm struggling to get excited about this class. What are your thoughts? Any workarounds? Am I just wrong? (that would be great!)
I dont not believe you have to turn off defensive parry to use disarm but I have not played through far enough to get disarm yet to test that.
If anyone else knows for sure please let us know.
@@rangertony It isn't that you have to turn it off. It's that it is only active if you've made a full attack. Disarming isn't considered a full attack so you never get the bonus.
Should I dip into sword saint for uncanny Dodge, seems like a must have in my opinion. What about dipping two levels into monk for wis to ac and crane style?
I would raise CON rather than INT as this affects your hit points which are more important than skills. Leave STR at 10 as you might carry some weight. WIS and CHA are dump stat and can be lowered to 8. DEX, as primary attribute, of course up to 18 and then to 20 with the race modifier human.
Feats: Weapon Finesse and Weapon Focus Dueling Sword, of course, and later the Weapon Specialization.
I understand your reasoning but without Int of 13 you can never get Disarm and that means that 1 or 2 of the abilities you get will be useless.
I do think it is a little weird that the class has abilities that require Disarm to work but you are not given it, you have to remember to get it yourself.
You are right. I just checked out my old char (it's been a while since I played him). His first level attributes were: STR 14, DEX 20, CON 14, INT 12, WIS 10, CHA 10. At 4th level, I raised INT to 13.
Feats were:
Level 1: exotic weapons proficiency (dueling sword), dodge, waepon finesse
Level 2: weapon focus (dueling sword)
Level 3: dazzling display (-> required for prestige class Swordlord)
Level 4: weapon specialization (dueling sword)
Level 5: combat expertise (that's what you need INT 13 for)
Skills at level 5:
Acrobatics 3, Intimidate 5, Climbing 1, Animal Handling 1, Sense Motive 3, Riding 1, Perception 1, Knowledge (Nobility) 3, Knowledge (Engineering) 1, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 1
As you need Intimidate 5 ranks, that's the earliest point you can enter the prestige class:
www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/swordlord/
No if you want to dip into monk
Geez I built a half orc defender horribly inefficiently and he still owns in the BtSL dungeon
I do love the idea of a dex based aldori defender, with fighter you get so many extra feats so it makes up for the 3 feat tax to do damage from dex mod. I am in a tough spot on this game because I feel like I am always playing Aasimar. Do you think Aldori would work ok working with a prestige class by the way?
It is hard to tell much about prestige classes yet because I have not gotten far enough to be elligable for any and there is no information in the character creation about them, however I think 2 of the Aldori Defender feats actually reference their suitability for use with Duelists.
@RangerTony :
Aldori and Duelist are obviously very close together, as witty counter-attacking dodgy high initiative opportunists; Dex as Dex can! ;D
To reap the most benefit out of both classes, I would suggest going about 16 Aldori / 4 Duelist.
-This way, you pay a tax of 4 fighter feats for gaining Combat Mobility (is improved for Duelist) , Dodge ( both are prerequisites) , Improved Initiative, and Combat Reflexes; all also not terrible for a pure Aldori.
-Other than that, Duelist gains Int modifier to Dodge (+1 per Duelist level) , +1 Damage vs. Living per Duelist level, and the ability to possibly parry one attack for the price of one own attack, which is very likely better than it sounds at first glance. For the price of even a further Fighter feat, with 14-15 Ald / 5-6 Due, a succesful parry gives an AoO, at full attack.
- The price, other than the feats, from the Fighter side here is one level of Weapon Training (at 17) , 5 DR (at 19), and increased Crit Modifier with auto-confirmed crits, at level 20. Only the last sounds quite hurting, if you can get even that far in the game, that is. :P
14 starting Int, before gear, as top and bottom. 19 Dexterity should be enough at the start. And, minmaxed would be 16 Constitution, while dumping Charisma. Race I like Half Elf here, for role-playing reasons, stat focus dexterity, and +2 will saves against enchantments. Skill Focus: Mobility, for the untouchable grace, and fitting the whole theme , no questions asked.
Alas: Thanks for the undogmatic theory crafting, very appreciated! ;)
Don't you need Agile Maneuvers to use your Dex to disarm? Or am I misunderstanding how that feat works?
Yes you do need Agile Maneuvers to use Dex to disarm.
Thanks for clarifying that because I missed that in the video
@@rangertony Not everyone reads the comments. It would be helpful to put this information in description area. Again , nice video!
@@rangertony it's weird that it works that way in this game. You really only need agile maneuvers for things like grapple and bull rush in the P&P version of the game, because combat maneuvers made with weapons under weapon finesse automatically use Dex instead of strength
Can you have both Power Attack and Defensive Fighting active at the same time? And isn't Cleave a full attack action which would prevent you from using the AC buff you could get with the dueling sword?
I'd like to see how this class mixes with Duelist.
thanks
I just curious since i mostly make ranger character or spellcaster, does the aldori defender have to use a duel sword for the defensive parry to work?
Yes you have to be using a Dueling Sword for most of the Aldori Defender skills to be available