For 1/4 casters (like ranger) that have no other use for their casting stat, I only raise the casting stat to 13 at character creation. It takes another 2 points to raise to 14 on creation, and you won't need that extra point for several levels. A good time to raise that stat to 14 would be level 12. You put your stat increases at 4th and 8th into your prime stat, then at 12 you increase your casting stat to 14 in preparation for higher level spells, then finish out in your prime stat at 16th and 20th.
In the Pathfinder tabletop game, Slashing Grace on its own doesn't apply to two-weapon fighting, but it is a prerequisite for Two-Weapon Grace, which does allow you to add your dexterity modifier to damage. Add to this Double Slice and Piranha Strike, and you can ignore Strength for everything but carrying capacity and Swim/Climb checks.
Light Pick IS finessable and worth more than a passing thought - it has a critical range of 20 (19-20 with Improved Critical) but a x4 critical multiplier. That means you can deliver some MASSIVE damage when you crit and as a two-weapon combatant you get more attacks to potentially critical with. Also *SPOILER ALERT* there is an agile light pick that you can pick up early on which will give you your dex bonus to damage. Also two weapon fighters suffer disproportionately when they move, losing all their extra attacks leaving them with only one attack with a small weapon and smaller strength. Finally 4 levels of rogue is worth considering as you only lose +1 bab, about 4 hit points and some spell casting/animal companion levels, what you gain is DEXTERITY TO DAMAGE, you can take weapon focus and a combat feat as a rogue talent, more than making up for what you lose in my opinion.
In the recent patches, the Rapier is considered "Medium" weapon in the offhand. My rouge's penalty goes from -2 to -4. I had to switch my offhand to a dagger to reduce the penalty.
You can also find weapons with the “agile” enchantment on them, not sure which ones (I’ve only seen a couple, one really early), that enhancement allows you to use your dexterity for damage for that weapon. Could be useful for this type of build. Slashing and fencing grace are for one handed weapons without an offhand or shield, I use it on my sword saint magnus build and it seems to work there even when using spells in the offhand.
Yes. Slashing grace is working as intended. Off-hand must not be in use. Note that you can use a buckler as it does not occupy the hand. www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/slashing-grace-combat/
The problem is that the in-game documentation does not show that limitation. So if you read the description of Slashing Grace in the game you would think you could use it, right up until you take the feat and it does not work.
I would consider 3 in knife master, finesse and dex to dmg plus 2d8 sneak atk, plus a free combat feat can be picked in place of normal rogue talents at level 2. With two weapon fighting from ranger, you are saving tons of feats, you would have lots left to do combat maneuvers like trip. Kukri for a crit spammer, lol. That with ranger spells, would be amazing. If you could get freedom of movement, your casters could lay down serious AOE control spells, just kill everything
This just leaves me with the question why you'd want a dex based TWF ranger if you could go strength instead which means you can take a non-finessable main hand weapon AND don't need an agile weapon to transfer ability bonus to damage.
For me it comes down to not wanting to spread my ability points around too much. If all I am putting points into is Dex and Wis I can do better than if I have to spread between Str, Dex and Wis, because lets be honest I do not think I have ever seen a Ranger build that did not have at least some point put into Dex. And finally the game actually indicates that Dex and Wis are the primary attributes of the Ranger, so I wanted to provide a melee build that uses those for my viewers
Both are viable, but I agree, the Ranger is the only class that doesn't need uber high Dex scores to still take all the advanced TWF feats. Any race with a +2 to Dex basically needs only a 13 in Dex to start with a 15 and get them all. And yes Dex is a prime stat for Rangers but I think that's meant more for Archers who have to use that to hit.
Nice video. I know it's an old one but I have a question. I am going with an Elf dual-wield ranger. You say in the video that it's better to go with one weapon type. Since Elves have proficiency in Long sword does it make sense to go with a long sword and short sword (add proficiency on short sword only)?
Ok there are a few issues here. 1. Rangers get proficiency on all Martial Weapons automatically. So you will be able to use Long and Short sword without using any feats, regardless of whether you play an elf or not 2. Long Sword is NOT finessable. This means that when using a Long Sword it will always use your Strength to determine hit. The Short Sword is finessable however so it will use Dex to determine hit (or Strength if you do not Take Weapon Finesse or your Strength bonus is higher than your Dex bonus). So if you want to use Long and Short swords do not go Dex Finesse build but stick with Strength. 3. There is a feat called Weapon Focus, which adds +1 to hit with the Focused weapon. If you use 2 different weapons in your build then you need to take Weapon Focus for each weapon, provided you want the +1 bonus that is. These are the reasons that generally no one used 2 different weapons when Dual Weapons. For Role Play or realism purposes it might seem like a good idea but logistically it makes the build harder For reference the whole Elf weapon proficiency is only really useful for classes that do not normally get access to those weapons, i.e an Elf spellcaster who is able to use Longsword and Bow which they normally cannot use
so if i have 10 str and 20 dex there is no way i can get bonus damage from my high dex? Only strength? Is there no feats or such stuff with which i can ignore str?
Fencing grace our slashing grace allows you to use your Dex bonus instead of strength for damage when using light or one handed weapons, but they do not work when dual wielding
I definitely do. What gave it away? Actually in PFKM I am liking the Magus and archtypes more than Rangers so that is what my main play-through currently is.
Well for several reasons.... 1. Vanity 2. Copy Protection 3. I did not expect the Spanish Inquisition ... No one expects the Spanish Inguisition. You chief weapon is Surprise. Surprise and Fear. Fear and Surprise. Our two main weapons are Fear, Surprise and Ruthless Efficiency. Our three main weapons are Fear, Surprise, Ruthless Efficiency and a Fanatical Devotion to the Pope. Amongst our weaponry are such diverse elements as Fear, Surprise, Ruthless Efficiency, Fanatical Devotion to the Pope and Nice Red Uniforms. .... 4. Because my ugly mug in the videos seems to create comments from people such as yourself, and UA-cam is always telling us that one of the biggest factors that helps to promote my videos is comments, so thank you for the comment
@@rangertony Really vanity...? You must have a hell of a lot of self-confidence. It seems like I'm the only one commenting on that. I think it's sad. Must be people without any friends.
"Never argue with a crazy person for you cannot win" - Napoleon Bonaparte 1912 "Unless they are posting in your UA-cam channel because then you win" - Albert Einstein 1986 "Yeah Baby!!!" - James Bond 1997
For 1/4 casters (like ranger) that have no other use for their casting stat, I only raise the casting stat to 13 at character creation. It takes another 2 points to raise to 14 on creation, and you won't need that extra point for several levels. A good time to raise that stat to 14 would be level 12. You put your stat increases at 4th and 8th into your prime stat, then at 12 you increase your casting stat to 14 in preparation for higher level spells, then finish out in your prime stat at 16th and 20th.
In the Pathfinder tabletop game, Slashing Grace on its own doesn't apply to two-weapon fighting, but it is a prerequisite for Two-Weapon Grace, which does allow you to add your dexterity modifier to damage. Add to this Double Slice and Piranha Strike, and you can ignore Strength for everything but carrying capacity and Swim/Climb checks.
Light Pick IS finessable and worth more than a passing thought - it has a critical range of 20 (19-20 with Improved Critical) but a x4 critical multiplier. That means you can deliver some MASSIVE damage when you crit and as a two-weapon combatant you get more attacks to potentially critical with. Also *SPOILER ALERT* there is an agile light pick that you can pick up early on which will give you your dex bonus to damage. Also two weapon fighters suffer disproportionately when they move, losing all their extra attacks leaving them with only one attack with a small weapon and smaller strength. Finally 4 levels of rogue is worth considering as you only lose +1 bab, about 4 hit points and some spell casting/animal companion levels, what you gain is DEXTERITY TO DAMAGE, you can take weapon focus and a combat feat as a rogue talent, more than making up for what you lose in my opinion.
In the recent patches, the Rapier is considered "Medium" weapon in the offhand. My rouge's penalty goes from -2 to -4. I had to switch my offhand to a dagger to reduce the penalty.
Just an update, nowadays short sword is piercing damage, I don't think that there is something slashing beside kukri :(
You can also find weapons with the “agile” enchantment on them, not sure which ones (I’ve only seen a couple, one really early), that enhancement allows you to use your dexterity for damage for that weapon. Could be useful for this type of build.
Slashing and fencing grace are for one handed weapons without an offhand or shield, I use it on my sword saint magnus build and it seems to work there even when using spells in the offhand.
Yes. Slashing grace is working as intended. Off-hand must not be in use. Note that you can use a buckler as it does not occupy the hand.
www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/slashing-grace-combat/
The problem is that the in-game documentation does not show that limitation. So if you read the description of Slashing Grace in the game you would think you could use it, right up until you take the feat and it does not work.
I would consider 3 in knife master, finesse and dex to dmg plus 2d8 sneak atk, plus a free combat feat can be picked in place of normal rogue talents at level 2. With two weapon fighting from ranger, you are saving tons of feats, you would have lots left to do combat maneuvers like trip. Kukri for a crit spammer, lol. That with ranger spells, would be amazing. If you could get freedom of movement, your casters could lay down serious AOE control spells, just kill everything
I only suggest that because I am doing something like this with a dex based dual wield barbarian, lol
This just leaves me with the question why you'd want a dex based TWF ranger if you could go strength instead which means you can take a non-finessable main hand weapon AND don't need an agile weapon to transfer ability bonus to damage.
For me it comes down to not wanting to spread my ability points around too much. If all I am putting points into is Dex and Wis I can do better than if I have to spread between Str, Dex and Wis, because lets be honest I do not think I have ever seen a Ranger build that did not have at least some point put into Dex.
And finally the game actually indicates that Dex and Wis are the primary attributes of the Ranger, so I wanted to provide a melee build that uses those for my viewers
Both are viable, but I agree, the Ranger is the only class that doesn't need uber high Dex scores to still take all the advanced TWF feats. Any race with a +2 to Dex basically needs only a 13 in Dex to start with a 15 and get them all. And yes Dex is a prime stat for Rangers but I think that's meant more for Archers who have to use that to hit.
Nice video. I know it's an old one but I have a question. I am going with an Elf dual-wield ranger. You say in the video that it's better to go with one weapon type. Since Elves have proficiency in Long sword does it make sense to go with a long sword and short sword (add proficiency on short sword only)?
Ok there are a few issues here.
1. Rangers get proficiency on all Martial Weapons automatically. So you will be able to use Long and Short sword without using any feats, regardless of whether you play an elf or not
2. Long Sword is NOT finessable. This means that when using a Long Sword it will always use your Strength to determine hit. The Short Sword is finessable however so it will use Dex to determine hit (or Strength if you do not Take Weapon Finesse or your Strength bonus is higher than your Dex bonus). So if you want to use Long and Short swords do not go Dex Finesse build but stick with Strength.
3. There is a feat called Weapon Focus, which adds +1 to hit with the Focused weapon. If you use 2 different weapons in your build then you need to take Weapon Focus for each weapon, provided you want the +1 bonus that is.
These are the reasons that generally no one used 2 different weapons when Dual Weapons. For Role Play or realism purposes it might seem like a good idea but logistically it makes the build harder
For reference the whole Elf weapon proficiency is only really useful for classes that do not normally get access to those weapons, i.e an Elf spellcaster who is able to use Longsword and Bow which they normally cannot use
@@rangertony thank you for your answer and tips!
so if i have 10 str and 20 dex there is no way i can get bonus damage from my high dex? Only strength? Is there no feats or such stuff with which i can ignore str?
Fencing grace our slashing grace allows you to use your Dex bonus instead of strength for damage when using light or one handed weapons, but they do not work when dual wielding
@@rangertony damn, that's definitely bad news for my character
I would like to know about two weapon ranger build where the second weapon is a medium steel sheild.
Looks like you like rangers! lol
I definitely do. What gave it away?
Actually in PFKM I am liking the Magus and archtypes more than Rangers so that is what my main play-through currently is.
RangerTony I like your content, but your audio is very difficult to listen to. I'm not flaming just a fan that wants to make you aware.
Thanks for the feedback
Why do we have to look at you? I want to see the build, not you.
Well for several reasons....
1. Vanity
2. Copy Protection
3. I did not expect the Spanish Inquisition
...
No one expects the Spanish Inguisition.
You chief weapon is Surprise. Surprise and Fear. Fear and Surprise.
Our two main weapons are Fear, Surprise and Ruthless Efficiency.
Our three main weapons are Fear, Surprise, Ruthless Efficiency and a Fanatical Devotion to the Pope.
Amongst our weaponry are such diverse elements as Fear, Surprise, Ruthless Efficiency, Fanatical Devotion to the Pope and Nice Red Uniforms.
....
4. Because my ugly mug in the videos seems to create comments from people such as yourself, and UA-cam is always telling us that one of the biggest factors that helps to promote my videos is comments, so thank you for the comment
@@rangertony Really vanity...? You must have a hell of a lot of self-confidence. It seems like I'm the only one commenting on that. I think it's sad. Must be people without any friends.
Thanks again for the comment
@@rangertony You're welcome Tony. You need the help.
"Never argue with a crazy person for you cannot win" - Napoleon Bonaparte 1912
"Unless they are posting in your UA-cam channel because then you win" - Albert Einstein 1986
"Yeah Baby!!!" - James Bond 1997