I would argue that Traditional Monk could be preferable for a 1 level dip if you are more concerned about saving throws. You give up 1HP (average) for +2 Will save. Unchained or Scaled Fist are flat out better though for straight Monk.
Traditional Monk is best for a 1-level dip for tanks looking to get Crane Style for defensive fighting penalty reduction. Because Traditional Monks have the highest base Will save bonus at first level taken. Well worth 1-2 hp since the patch a few months ago gave Traditional Monk a +1 BAB at level one. Sensei is good for a 2-level dip for their ability to use Wisdom for their melee attack modifier. Which is great for Wisdom casters, as it gives them a better chance to land attacks without high Str or BAB. And since they get a bard song, it's a nice pocket attack bonus for a few rounds if you're not rocking a Bard in the group. Another thing to note. A "Tank" Monk with stacked Dex is good if you first go Rogue for the Dex to damage ability (using a ranged weapon till you hit that level). You'll lose the final damage increase to unarmed and the Monks higher special abilities. But you'll be turning Dex into both an offensive and defensive stat in melee while boosting your Reflex save a good deal. This then allows you to bump up Wis and Con for more hp and saves. Since your monk in essence only needs those three stats at all.
If you start with monk, then put 1 point into rogue, you will get that weapon finesse which let dex work as a dps multiplicator yes? But for me it says, it only works with light weapons like estocs, elfen-blades e.g. so can it even work as a monk who will use his fists only ? Im very intrested in a monk tank build, but cannot find any good.
@@dmsephiroth unarmed is a light weapon. Because there's nothing lighter than only your fist. Which means Weapon Finesse will add your dex instead of str for your attack bonus (only attack, not damage). You need to hit level 3 in Rogue to then add your Dex to your melee damage (with the selected light weapon). If you want a truly "tank" monk-esque build, i recommend making a half-orc going Scaled Fist->Thug->Thug->Thug->Paladin->Paladin->Scaled Fist from that point on. The reason for this is because scaled fist AC bonus scales off Charisma. Which then allows you to better use Dazzling Display feat with Thug offering bonuses to intimidation effects for AoE attack debuff to enemies. Then dipping two levels into Paladin applies your high Charisma to all your saving throws. So you can have low Wisdom, Strength, and even a flat 10 in Con without being a big detriment to your saving throws. And then having more stat points to stack into Charisma and Dex. And being a half-orc Gives you bonus to intimidation persuasion checks as well as the ability to fight for one more round in case you're brought to zero hit points (nice safety net to have as a tank getting focused). You could also sub out Thug for Knife Master and use a Sai (monk weapon for flurry of blows and counts as a knife) for more damage when able to sneak attack. You trade some utility from the Thug bonuses to persuasion but can be well-worth it.
Monk is way op,pumped dex, all dex all his gear is dex married dex and had its children, grabbed 2 levels in rogue 1 in vivisectionist 1 in sword saint grabbed finess fighting built into crane style and dodge, litterally kungpow punching blocks of meat out of peoples chest. So op.
@@davidj6328 umm.....I'd suggest looking at a leveling guide for the class you want and tailor it to your playstyle,usually we build towards a ideal character ex: i wanna focus on meaty hits so ill go fighter barb with a long reaching wep.
It astounds me that so few people actually know what role a monk plays in a party. It was never a substitution for a fighter, it was a seek-and-destroy caster killer. All that movement closed the distance to enemy casters. Tumble as a class skill to not take attacks as the monk runs right past the enemy fighters. The lower Bab didn't matter because casters have lower AC. Stunning fist is a Fort save, who has terrible Fort saves. They have the best touch AC, evasion, a bonus against enchantment spells, and the best saves. Oh yeah, and magic resistance, a teleport, and etherealness. Everything about them is to get close to spellcasters and end them. They are not fighters, don't play them like fighters and you will have a better time.
That´s true, but narratively has no sense. Monks are not wizard hunters, are not inquisitors, and didn´t should be force to play like they were. They are warriors with an spiritual view, similar to a paladin, but without a godly benefactor, more focus on discovered themself, and without the heavy armor or the sacred things.
@@mytotim8978 That is one interpretation. One of the oldest, and best, monk/martial artist stories is "Journey to the West" where we get Son Goku. In it they battle many supernatural creatures and those using magic. They almost never fight regular soldiers. Regardless, my point was that monks have a role, and when used that way are a very good class to play.
@@alexandriamason2355 Sun Wukong didn't fight wizards, he fight monsters. He defend his cleric from things who wants to eat him. And he has magical powers like flying, clones, shapeshift, element control and a lot of magick tools. And he fought alone against the celestial army two times, so yes, he defeats thousand of soldiers.
tbh when you talk about checks you always takes all the int if you dont need it for damage... so you never have enough points to put to get the checks in the first place... never had those problems on Unfair cause I dont take all my int on every single build that does not require 18+ int lvl 1.
remember the feats are everything for an unchained monk. Also, start thinking of your hands as weapons and not hands. Look at feats that reduce attacks of opportunity against you and that add to your acrobatic skill.
I've never played any Unchained versions of any classes. And my Monk has made GM's literally leap from their seat in excitement and joy when they finally hit him... Until he Repositions them anyway and negates said hit, which ALWAYS results in a pause because they refuse to fucking believe I know how to play my own character until I show them the rules. I just have the rules REAADY when I play my Monk, at this point. Anyone who thinks Monk is useless just doesn't know how to use their brain. Same with Bard.
Actually, from your examples it just seems that GMs actually have no idea about balance one way or another. So, it's not that the monk is very strong, it's just that u r a very competent player and GM is not too experienced in PF balance
I would argue that Traditional Monk could be preferable for a 1 level dip if you are more concerned about saving throws. You give up 1HP (average) for +2 Will save. Unchained or Scaled Fist are flat out better though for straight Monk.
Thank you for making this content it's incredibly helpful
I had no idea Kingmaker monks used the unchained ruleset. I am now cracking skull and kicking worgs thanks to this guide.
They actually have both monks in the game. Unchained and chained
Traditional Monk is best for a 1-level dip for tanks looking to get Crane Style for defensive fighting penalty reduction. Because Traditional Monks have the highest base Will save bonus at first level taken. Well worth 1-2 hp since the patch a few months ago gave Traditional Monk a +1 BAB at level one.
Sensei is good for a 2-level dip for their ability to use Wisdom for their melee attack modifier. Which is great for Wisdom casters, as it gives them a better chance to land attacks without high Str or BAB. And since they get a bard song, it's a nice pocket attack bonus for a few rounds if you're not rocking a Bard in the group.
Another thing to note. A "Tank" Monk with stacked Dex is good if you first go Rogue for the Dex to damage ability (using a ranged weapon till you hit that level). You'll lose the final damage increase to unarmed and the Monks higher special abilities. But you'll be turning Dex into both an offensive and defensive stat in melee while boosting your Reflex save a good deal. This then allows you to bump up Wis and Con for more hp and saves. Since your monk in essence only needs those three stats at all.
If you start with monk, then put 1 point into rogue, you will get that weapon finesse which let dex work as a dps multiplicator yes? But for me it says, it only works with light weapons like estocs, elfen-blades e.g. so can it even work as a monk who will use his fists only ?
Im very intrested in a monk tank build, but cannot find any good.
@@dmsephiroth unarmed is a light weapon. Because there's nothing lighter than only your fist. Which means Weapon Finesse will add your dex instead of str for your attack bonus (only attack, not damage). You need to hit level 3 in Rogue to then add your Dex to your melee damage (with the selected light weapon).
If you want a truly "tank" monk-esque build, i recommend making a half-orc going Scaled Fist->Thug->Thug->Thug->Paladin->Paladin->Scaled Fist from that point on.
The reason for this is because scaled fist AC bonus scales off Charisma. Which then allows you to better use Dazzling Display feat with Thug offering bonuses to intimidation effects for AoE attack debuff to enemies. Then dipping two levels into Paladin applies your high Charisma to all your saving throws. So you can have low Wisdom, Strength, and even a flat 10 in Con without being a big detriment to your saving throws. And then having more stat points to stack into Charisma and Dex. And being a half-orc Gives you bonus to intimidation persuasion checks as well as the ability to fight for one more round in case you're brought to zero hit points (nice safety net to have as a tank getting focused). You could also sub out Thug for Knife Master and use a Sai (monk weapon for flurry of blows and counts as a knife) for more damage when able to sneak attack. You trade some utility from the Thug bonuses to persuasion but can be well-worth it.
So dex monk is for tanking and str monk is for dealing?
Monk is way op,pumped dex, all dex all his gear is dex married dex and had its children, grabbed 2 levels in rogue 1 in vivisectionist 1 in sword saint grabbed finess fighting built into crane style and dodge, litterally kungpow punching blocks of meat out of peoples chest. So op.
Just getting the game now would this be a good build to start playing with?
@@davidj6328 honestly yes and no,yes it'll be fine for a starter build,but for harder content its pretty shiet.
@@DavidSantos-ix1hu any recommendations for my first playthrough thinking of getting the game now on sale with all dlc
@@davidj6328 umm.....I'd suggest looking at a leveling guide for the class you want and tailor it to your playstyle,usually we build towards a ideal character ex: i wanna focus on meaty hits so ill go fighter barb with a long reaching wep.
@@DavidSantos-ix1hu oh alright I was trying to go for like the biggest cheese or damage
Dex for attacks, so that you spec into dex and get the armor bonus and great attacks.
It astounds me that so few people actually know what role a monk plays in a party. It was never a substitution for a fighter, it was a seek-and-destroy caster killer. All that movement closed the distance to enemy casters. Tumble as a class skill to not take attacks as the monk runs right past the enemy fighters. The lower Bab didn't matter because casters have lower AC. Stunning fist is a Fort save, who has terrible Fort saves. They have the best touch AC, evasion, a bonus against enchantment spells, and the best saves. Oh yeah, and magic resistance, a teleport, and etherealness. Everything about them is to get close to spellcasters and end them. They are not fighters, don't play them like fighters and you will have a better time.
That´s true, but narratively has no sense. Monks are not wizard hunters, are not inquisitors, and didn´t should be force to play like they were. They are warriors with an spiritual view, similar to a paladin, but without a godly benefactor, more focus on discovered themself, and without the heavy armor or the sacred things.
@@mytotim8978 That is one interpretation. One of the oldest, and best, monk/martial artist stories is "Journey to the West" where we get Son Goku. In it they battle many supernatural creatures and those using magic. They almost never fight regular soldiers. Regardless, my point was that monks have a role, and when used that way are a very good class to play.
@@alexandriamason2355 Sun Wukong didn't fight wizards, he fight monsters. He defend his cleric from things who wants to eat him. And he has magical powers like flying, clones, shapeshift, element control and a lot of magick tools. And he fought alone against the celestial army two times, so yes, he defeats thousand of soldiers.
this is very basic class introduction, I wouldn't call it an unfair guide or a guide at all, that being said the info in the video is precise
Is it OK to budd Dexterity rather than strengh and go finesse?
tbh when you talk about checks you always takes all the int if you dont need it for damage... so you never have enough points to put to get the checks in the first place... never had those problems on Unfair cause I dont take all my int on every single build that does not require 18+ int lvl 1.
Do a paladin build yo!! Great info dude.
Im shocked monk doesnt get dex as a bonus to its damage for unarmed strikes...
Hi ! Is there any information on how to build the monk after the level 1 ?
I would be intrested in that too please :)
remember the feats are everything for an unchained monk. Also, start thinking of your hands as weapons and not hands. Look at feats that reduce attacks of opportunity against you and that add to your acrobatic skill.
@@John-iv2oz I never thought of them as not being weapons * mortal kombat theme in the background *
Is the monk still good in the latest patch?
Yes, not as easy as spellcasters with pets but still a strong melee alternative :)
Scaled Fist 8 two paladin levels, Vordakai get reckt for mi monk in one full round, bread and butter Bro.
doesn't the sensei get something else for his wisdom? like extra attack rating or damage so he can ignore his strength
At 2nd level, traditional monk can use Wis in place of Str for attack rolls. It’s called Insightful Strike
trad monk does get better saves for one level dip
I've never played any Unchained versions of any classes. And my Monk has made GM's literally leap from their seat in excitement and joy when they finally hit him... Until he Repositions them anyway and negates said hit, which ALWAYS results in a pause because they refuse to fucking believe I know how to play my own character until I show them the rules. I just have the rules REAADY when I play my Monk, at this point. Anyone who thinks Monk is useless just doesn't know how to use their brain. Same with Bard.
Actually, from your examples it just seems that GMs actually have no idea about balance one way or another. So, it's not that the monk is very strong, it's just that u r a very competent player and GM is not too experienced in PF balance