Will Spiderverse's Art Style Become Oversaturated?
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- Опубліковано 27 тра 2024
- #spiderverse #animation #tmnt
Some thoughts surrounding the current trends in animation and where they could potentially go in the future. Thank you to Sam Bradley for our email exchange and sharing his thoughts on the topic!
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Chapters:
0:00 Intro
1:02 The 'CG' look
3:40 Art Movements in History
5:03 Spider-Man: Into the Spiderverse
6:50 Newer Animation
9:42 Sam Bradley Interview - Фільми й анімація
One thing I forgot to mention was that Spiderverse employs various styles to showcase the different dimensions that collide with Miles Morales. Spider Noir, Spider Ham and Penny Parker are all drawn with different styles, and they follow the rules of their respective Universe. This ties into the film thematically and is done to great effect.
So even the “Spiderverse” style isn’t just one thing, and we’ll more than likely see that expanded upon in Across the Spiderverse. Just inject it into my brain please.
Hobie as a great example of this. He's just an amazingly creative character style, it's not a "look".
As a TMNT fan, I can advocate for Mutant Mayhem. TMNT started out as, was, and still is a comic franchise with a style that is raw, retro, and grotesque. Also taking heavy influence from NYC street and graffiti art. During interviews, some creatives described this film as if it was all being written in this "ninja-training" notebook the main turtles have. The film is also taking a lot of design cues from the 2012 iteration that used 3D and 2D(heavily inspired by 90s anime like Voltron and Sailor Moon) and the 1987 animated series. Also, the 2012 series has experimental technique with 3D and 2D back before this film was even a concept. I get that this is Paramount of all people attempting this style but, I could always count on Paramount to deliver a good TMNT. And after 2018(Rise) I don't think they can do any wrong. Great vid, though 👌
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue1922 does ATSV not have solid story and characterization?
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue1922 what's a Superhero movie that has good characterization in your opinion.
@@someones_here Hobie's universe exists entirely across a great, endless expanse of punk rock bar bathroom mirror.
I feel no one gives credit for the Lego movie and Peanuts movie because in my opinion, they felt different visually compared to other CG movies at that time. Let's face it we all thought the Lego movie was made with actual minifigs. They didn't create the 'spider-verse look" but they were earlier examples of stylized cgi.
Omg I agree, LEGO movie animation was so cool. I was in awe, the lego TV show content included rubbery bendy arms, which I liked, but the LEGO movie being completely faithful to the LEGO toys, even with all their silly quirks, made me ecstatic!
Peanuts has these really cute hand drawn lines and stylistic shading that I really enjoyed so much
Wait the movie wasn’t made with actual mini figs???
And Captain Underpants
And funnily enough, The LEGO Movie had the same directors as Spider-Verse.
heck , add speed racer to that list
It’s insane to me that this aesthetic took so long to evolve. I think it’s because studios were just afraid to present anything that reeked of old style animation. We were basically in a Toy Story frame of mind for 25 years
technology and incentives towards labor exploitation has a lot to do with that, I suspect. Toy Story was revolutionary not just because it looked so different and new at the time. It was revolutionary because it was its own new medium and more importantly, an UN-UNIONIZED medium.
2D traditional animation had more labor protections, I believe. But with 3D animation, you could exploit artists muuuch easier. And the state of labor as it was at the time, (public opinion on unions was very low), there was no way 3D art could (and can) become unionized. And if anyone tried, you can outsource the work to other countries.
I'm over-simplifying here, because 2D animation also outsourced work, but as I understand it, there was still more protections.
Point is, there was no financial incentive to allow artists to experiment, because early 3D artists had less traditional training. They would have wanted to bring in artists who had more protection, and that was a pain to companies who see this new medium as both a cash-cow and a way to cut expenses.
Now, 2D traditional animation is still practically dead compared to the way it used to be, and advancements in technologies along with 3D artists being more trained in traditional 2D animation means that companies can create this new art style while still abusing and exploiting artists, without having to worry about unions and labor protection. This is a very specific framing, and only a part of it, but i think it's a pretty important part of why we didn't get this art style for so long, AND why it's only happening now.
Tools that combine 2D and 3D animation has existed for a while, but are only starting to become mainstream recently. That's another part of it. Again, I believe this means less people can do more work, so that burden of paying 2D animators fairly is offloaded to the 3D workers who now are expected to also do 2D art--instead of hiring more artists, they can put more work on fewer people since the tools make them more efficient.
I recently read that BTS, Phil Lord was pretty awful for artists to work with because he kept on asking for last minute changes, overriding other directors, and then ineffienctly creating schedules where artists would have months of no work, knowing all of it is getting pushed into the last few months before release, creating an intense crunch cycle. The crunch was so bad for Across the Spider-Verse, that over 100 artists had left before it finished because the working conditions were so awful. As someone who loves animation, I know I'm going to love this movie when I see it this weekend. I know i'm going to appreciate every frame these artists made even knowing how bad things are. Not because I don't care, but because what they made deserves al the credit. I appreciate this art style so much, but I'm also not optimistic that this change in art style represents in any way some kind of change with studios being more willing to experiment. Studios would LOVE to experiment--as long as it doesn't cost more money. The fact that they hadn't for so long, I suspect, is to avoid fair compensation and working conditions for workers.
The fact that paperman didn’t completely revolutionize the industry and it took almost a decade more to utilize similar tech successfully really shows how unwilling Disney was to use the tech they developed in their shorts for use in their feature films.
Sadly, it really is just that artists are bound to the restrictions set by the studios they work for, and major film studios are notoriously terrified of taking risks.
As someone who was studying 3D animation right before Spiderverse came out, artists have been absolutely fascinated with the idea of mixing 2D and 3D for _years._ There were so many students who chose painterly styles as a subject for R&D assignments, myself included. There was some really exciting short form content popping up here and there (League of Legends has been pioneering this shit longer than they get credit for tbh) but there weren’t many large scale or big budget projects to look up to. I think the feeling many of us had when Spiderverse did come out was “finally.” _Finally_ a major film studio actually took the leap and it looks even better than we ever could have imagined. We all knew this would the start of something big.
Well, if you think about it, here it is 2023, and we've been actually seeing this "style" come about for quite a while. One of the firsts if you remember was 2014's "The Lego Movie", which while being completely CGI, they emulated the look of using actual plastic Lego to emulate stop-motion animation, "on 2's" style of stuttery-ness and all. Then we had 2015's "Peanuts" movie, where they did animate most of it "on 2's" and they kept the framing like a comic strip for the most part. Spider-Verse in 2018 though yes definitely blew the doors open to whats possible when REALLY exploring what can be done with CG animation but to emulate a particular art style. So I'd say we're going on 10 years of experimental CG animation, and I can't wait to see where it goes from here!
Coming from the industry, this partially it. It's not that anyone couldn't do this before, and it's not that no one wanted to do it, they (clients/producers) didn't have the guts to. I've seen all kinds of cool and great designs approved but effectively ignored because whatever the design is, it gets rendered traditionally with traditional shading. When other looks are pitched from within the studios, a lot of the client responses basically amount to "we want X to look like disney/pixar" because that's what pulls in the dollars.
The earliest example that I can personally think of adapting a non-traditional 2D-3D rendering style was Team Fortress 2, and that's only what I can think of, others could probably name things earlier. If Valve could accomplish that in a game engine, there is no reason movies and TV couldn't accomplish the same decades ago.
Considering the impact Spider-verse had on animation as a whole, it should deserve it's own genre/title of stylised CGI.
I will gladly take the spider verse art style any day over more life action remakes or whatever weird realistic 3D art Disney does
To do that, you have to push the "Make Other Kind Of Movie" button. It is very technical.
All audiences want a novel visual experience-the industry is broad enough to let folks do both.
I miss actual realistic 3D art like Legend of the Guardians, that looks infinitely better than what is currently being made
I love how tmnt looks omg and yes I can tell it was inspired by spiderverse but honestly it looks like it’s own style especially how they designed the characters.
The metal shine and paitned look of the weapons from pib2
The comic booky flairs and particles of spider verse
The claymation inspired artstyle
The hand drawn facial wrinkle lines, again, from spiderverse
its a cool mashup of different styles and I really like it
exactly, it's clearly inspired by spider verse but unique in its own way
One thing I noticed is spiderverse is like a comic book, mitchells vs the machines is like an illustration, and puss in boots is like a painting.
An artist working on the film said it’s more so inspired by The Mitchells Vs. The Machines than Spider-Verse, though a number of Spider-Verse artists are working on this movie. Just more of them were on the Mitchells.
@@njdotsontrue Spider-Verse has a comic book style, Mitchells is like a moving sketchbook, Puss in Boots is like a moving fairytale book and TMNT is like a a school work doodle mixed worh grunge graffiti (its so messy and ugly it works!)
The dislikes on TMNT first trailer was not for art style it was for the Black April. People freaked out and downvoted it.
I think you're right - following TMNT trailers have been received much more positively since the debut
Why do they raceswap/genderswap characters instead of making good original or adapted stories out of existing ethnicities and races?
@@QUBIQUBED april's design has been very inconsistent over the years. this isn't even the first time she's black lmao
@@QUBIQUBED Wasnt this lady originally not white anyway?
Can’t even say Im surprised sadly.
Another big reason for the transition from realism to Impressionism is the rise of photography. Why hire an artist to draw a landscape or a portrait when you can just push a button and get it almost instantly.
This is a great point - when being able to literally capture a subject in all of its details, the yearning for expression comes back, and so the art movements pivot in the opposite direction.
I wonder if this is happening again. Not with photography but CGI 'realism' in live action. Having larger than life situations closer to what is seen in cartoons, and modern animation pushing towards photo-realism. The two together are almost meeting in the middle creating a feeling of homogeny (imo). Then Spider-verse and Arcane come along pivot animation in another direction.
It's not about just the art style it's the art direction. And good art direction will never get old
Great art direction is timeless!
Its kind of funny that no one mentions anime has done this for decades. It just makes sense to use your medium to its fullest potential. If you wanted to be realistic you would just shoot live action
Akira always comes to mind. The background paintings and animation are absolutely incredible
One of the common points with many of these films is anime influence, that is particularly apparent in the Bad Guys and the Last Wish and it has been confirmed by their staff. I mean the whole frame dropping thing is taken from anime since that's not commonly a western animation technique.
Yeah mob psycho is one of the best example
@@coldsphagett8910That show was the start to my animation obsession.
The worse part about is, these people who use the so called spider-verse art style think anime should do this style animating one 3’s like, they’ve been doing that for decades?! It’s the pure fricking ignorance that pisses me off.
I love the idea of calling this new style "Animated Impressionism", it's such a great way to describe this style instead of just saying it's 2D & 3D combined
The lesson to take from Spiderverse is not that a mixture of 2D/3D is always good, it should be that animators ought to be experimenting with other styles. If you look at L&M’s other movies, they don’t look like Spiderverse. Each of their films has a unique look that honestly all could have had the same cultural impact in another universe (Lego Movie anyone?)
I want to see an animated Batman in these new styles. Or even the Hulk!!
Batman is one I have been thinking about for a while! Would love to see how the style would be used, especially for characters like the Joker.
@@DanielAngArt for sure! Mr. Freeze and scarecrow too even clay face
I was thinking the same a few days ago!! All this talk about stylized animated movies in my youtube feed and I was like, 'Please oh please make a stylized batman movie or justice league movie!'
Honestly, so much potential for other animated (superhero) movies to get more creative!
@@golden_zebra for sure!! There’s no way they don’t do a Batman one. Especially with how successful spiderverse is.
@@DanielAngArt Batman Beyond would be sick in this style!
My issue with a whole lot of studios seemingly adopting this style is that Spider-Man ITS was using this style for a very particular and specific purpose that I’m worried is going to get bleached out with the over saturation of it.
MOST animations in this style I’ve seen so far get it, but Disney’s Wish is the first one I’ve seen where I’m not sure if the style is being utilized properly. It’s framed exactly like any other 3D film. They say it’s supposed to harken back to older 2D Disney films, but whenever I hear that I’m always like “why not just animate it in 2D?
The comic book style of Spider-Man ITS is a great way to take an artstyle that’s static, but dynamic and make it more animated, but Wish is the first one of these movies that’s specifically going for a 2D animated style and still somehow feels a bit lifeless.
Pretty much, I know it sounds a bit over exaggerated, but I’m worried that we’re going to kind of go into a new Shrek phase where there will be SOME people who get the appeal, but there’s definitely A LOT MORE that really aren’t going to get it. Been rewatching animated movies from that time period and so far it’s so frustrating to see so many movies “inspired” by Shrek around that time are TOTALLY NOT getting why it was considered a breath of fresh air.
i just quickly watched the trailer. i know what you mean. it kinda looks like "oh that animation was successful and what people are expecting now, make it look like this!", all the while ITS looked like this, because it was the best way to portrait a comic book in an animated way
Either way it looks better than the generic Frozen/Strangeworld "generic blob" artstyle i say
Wish looks like that one Winnie the pooh world in kingdom hearts 3 (no seriously look it up, you'll get what I mean)
You got me thinking that Disney might drop the live action remakes in favor of doing 2D/3D remakes of their catalog -- just depends on how profitable Wish winds up being
Feels like they couldn't fully commit to the style.
Those dislikes on the TMNT video had nothing to do with the animation and a lot more to do with the controversy of one of the characters being black instead of white.
As long as it’s done creatively and looks unique, I think it won’t be so over saturated.
It probably will become oversaturated, sadly, if other art styles (like Klaus) don't get the kind of recognition they deserve. However, when done right, it looks great! (Like the Mitchells vs. the Machines, Puss in Boots, and TMNT.) But I think the whole point of Spiderverse's art style was to innovate, so hopefully studios keep the innovation part in mind and not just the comic book aesthetic.
Honestly the biggest point is that into the spiderverse was at the same time an amazing movie, which is why this style is suddenly so popular. Not to mention honestly Across the spider-verse now has probably already won the best animated feature easily, but honestly I think totally deserves a nomination for best picture, and beyond is being set up to be one of the best superhero movies, animated movies, and even just movies of all time if they follow through.
I think the inevitable Beyond the Spiderverse delay will prevent this oversaturation. A bit of space between these movies will prevent this trend from going by like a blur and instead turn it into a standard for animation moving forward.
As an animator and sociology/history fan, I love the term animated impressionism- it perfectly captures the mirrored intent from both art movements to stray away from the ever increasing trend of high-fidelity realism in favour of a more stylized, fun and expressive style.
I love the different art movements happening in my field, including the western adoption of anime aesthetics, mirroring the symbiotic inspiration between western/samurai cinema over the last century.
I hope to one day create my own anime that continues to build on the linneage of these two art movements 🔥🔥
I hear what you're saying but as -cough- "something of animation history fan myself" calling it "animated impressionism", to me is kind of a slap in the face to the MANY 2d films that literally made animated films in an impressionist style. Not big budget blockbusters but lovely short films like "the man who planted trees" and some of the work that came from the Canadian film board. Some anime has done it as well here and there as well but generally anime style is it's own thing, to the point that some people get angry if you call anime "animation". which is crazy to me but hey.
my 2 cents,
peace
One of the first instances of 2d over 3d that I seen is the 2012 short film Paperman, the movie Klaus interestingly does the opposite it applies 3d rendering of shadows and light onto 2d art to make it appear 3d
i think the style works so well for tmnt because its literally from a comic book, the spiderverse style is like watching a comic book come to life so its actually pretty cool to me to see more comic book based media using this style
The overall art style of Into the Spider-Verse is more-so capturing the feel of a comic book come to life.
i feel like animated movies are going to start doing "spiderverse-like" animation, but spiderverse will then release a new movie to change everything up once again because at the end of the day, its animation. YOU CAN LITERALLY DO ANYTHING.
spiderverses last movie is in march and they said they wont make anymore spiderverse movies after it so i doubt that
@@stuff42069 legacy will live on with spider verse's inspiration and influence
man it's so hard to imagine me getting sick of this style, i really hope that doesn't happen. i find it to be the ultimate evolution of modern animation, as long as movies at least try to do something unique with their shapes, colors, etc, mixing 2D and 3D is the future I think.
What's sad to me is that everyone will continue to copy the artstyle of Spider-Verse for the next 10 years potentially before a different studio, or maybe even Sony, innovates again. All the while all of these studios completely neglect and ignore 2D animation
That's a great point, though I also wouldn't be surprised if we begin seeing a return of hand drawn 2D animation as well, at least in some capacity. I think studios are more willing to take risks with the medium now, so hopefully we continue seeing innovation and not duplication!
The new innovation might be 2d animation, but in a certain or fresh style, then the typical Disney Renaissance style 2d animation. I can definitely see PSX style 3d animation maybe going into the industry, it's pretty big on UA-cam scene.
@@eronic404 psx as in, playstation 1? like wobbly walls and polygons? MGS was basically a movie with its cutscenes back in the day but never heard of this scene you refer to, have you got any recommended watches?
I feel the same way. I love the fresh look now, but every fresh look gets old if everyone keeps using it with no questions of whether it’s helpful to the overall story. I wish we could reach a point where creators choose style depending on the best way to tell the story rather than hopping on the trend train.
I don't see that as the problem. To me, the problem is that they as animators and we as an audience are still seeing 2D and 3D as separate things, when the whole point of Spider-Verse is that they aren't. There's simply no point in separating them. Animation is animation. The reason it got stale and needed Spider-Verse to shake it up is that studios thought that it needed to "look 3D" to sell tickets. So the form evolved into this weird look Daniel was complaining about, these over-rendered cartoon characters that look like plastic toys, set incongruously against overly realistic backgrounds.
We're not going to see a return to hand-drawn animation, anymore than film will suddenly return to all film-stock. It's an obsolete technique. What we will probably see though is more variety of film styles, including films that carefully recreate the look of cel-animation, just done on the computer, and without the stark limitations of that technique. Spider-Verse had lots of elements that were designed to look hand-drawn, from Pavitr's Mumbattan world to Spot himself. I love seeing lines in animation. I think the simplicity they create is easier on the eyes. I think someday, we'll see more of that in animated films.
But what's going to have to happen is that the current crop of decision makers, who built their careers and their tastes on breaking past the limits of 2D, will have to retire and be replaced by people like Lord and Miller, who've built their careers on transcending the notion that 3D is inherently better. It's happening, but it's going to be a slow, piecemeal process. We haven't seen the end of the likes of Boss Baby or Petz. Not yet.
The new tmnt movie reminds me of doodles I would make in school and I love it!
One of my pet peeves is how this direction of styles and techniques is now described by audience as "Spiderverse clones". Despite that, for example, Arcane's style roots can be traced as far back as early 2010s, with previous works by Fortiche.
Of course it tells more about the speakers' depth of knowledge. Still, a pet peeve :)
I do fear that it'll quickly become oversaturated, because of how memorable and recognizable it is. But such is the way of big business - treading the widest and safest roads.
First of all great breakdown!!. I noticed what u said about games and being an games artist myself i feel the same thing that happened with into the spiderverse happens in our culture. A prime eg is zelda breath of the wild and how it created a new sub genre where toon shaders and clamped lighting is used to separate realism.Because of elevations like this, I don't feel a style becomes saturated. Yes alot may just try and replicate whats popular but someone will find come along and find a way to take it to another level.
Thank you! I totally agree. Everybody adds their own unique twist or flavour the more it gets explored. It's quite freeing intentionally ignoring certain 'rules' of art that you become used to and instead try new stuff.
@@DanielAngArt very much so rules are meant to be broken
No matter what happens, for the love of god can we give this style a new name? I feel like limiting such a boundless style to a movie title defeats the point of how creativity driven it is. We don’t look at CGI cartoons and go “oh that’s the Toy Story style”.
I see your point but the difference is that "realism" isn't really a style per se. It's just an imitation of reality and it's quality usually relies on how advanced the animation tech is. The Spiderverse look is so heavily stylized and unique that you can't really point to anything else that came before it or after it that does the style so well.
Some people I know have been calling it 2.5D Animation!
The word "pulchritudinous" means "beautiful or good-looking," so I've taken to privately calling the style "2Dinous" (tudinous). I was really taken with "2Dissimo/tudissimo" for a hot second, but I think that means "for safety" in Latin?
TVTropes calls it "Painted CGI", and I think it gets the gist across pretty well, though it does make me wonder what the line between that and cel-shading is.
Calling it 2.5D might cause some confusion with the existing term for video games that have 3D graphics but 2D controls (e.g. every 3D _Kirby_ game until _The Forgotten Land_ due to a difficulty in translating the gameplay to 3D), so I'm not sure it would catch on.
I wonder if "blended animation" would work as a term for movies that use both traditional animation and CGI animation. Or possibly "hybrid animation" for those that manage to blur the line between 2D and 3D like the Spider-Verse movies. It sounds cool and describes the effect pretty well imo
@@nangke That's a really cool term!
I think the offset framerate in the action scenes in Puss In Boots are more inspired by anime fights, The Lego Movie (pre-Spiderverse) uses it to make it look like stop-motion, while Spider-Verse uses it for character storytelling, so they're great examples of using the same technique with different artistic purposes.
And I agree with you that the films you mentioned have different artstyles, and I think that's the important thing, that studios can see that making something different can have more impact than playing it safe.
what I'm wondering is why western studios haven't picked up on how popular has been getting recently and why they haven't tried to make beautiful 2d movies/shows like anime does. You'd think with all of the adult animation out there that they'd realize you can still have an amazing 2d film. Have adults realize that 2d animation can have more mature themes like arcane and eventually bring it back
They have and people were overlooking them. Castlevania is one example. Thankfully Arcane was a hit. There are more and more western animations coming. I'm sure other people missed stuff like Kipo which was kind of unique in its style. Pixar's Turning Red animation was HEAVILY inspired by anime.
@@Drstrange3000 Arcane is 3D. At least with characters.
If it’s oversaturated then it’s not that style. The point of that style is to prioritise creativity and show that off to its fullest potential
I've honestly considered this movement of new movies, to be like a style. Similar to wallace in Gromit, as I find the people behind most of these projects tend to work on multiple of afforementioned works before. So I always feel like it's "Oh, it's made by the similar people who've made..." and since they've all been bangers I've always looked forward to them
the whole movie is a beauty and i know most people dont but i find lots of people not really noticing the outstanding music used in the spiderverse movies especially in the new movie, the songs matched so well with the story and yes im gonna go as far as in my opinion without the incredible music the whole movie would be pointless
I've been feeling the exact same way. It is undeniably great to see animation evolving, and I was really excited when I saw the unique art styles of Spiderverse and The Mitchells. But when I saw it pop up even more in films like The Bad Guys and Puss in Boots, I started to worry this style would become a gimmick and be utilized ad nauseam without much innovation. I'm glad that pretty much all the films in this style have had great storywriting to back them up so far, and I just hope it continues on that trend and doesn't start to feel like how every Pixar movie feels now. It'd be a shame for such a great breakthrough of creativity to just become the next cashgrab for animation studios.
I really hope this means that the current spider verse style can later morph or break into high budget 2d animated films being brought back in a modern way. There are still so many different styles and experiments that can still be done with normal 2d so why not do them. At some point I am betting on some animated movies looking exactly like finished intricate drawings that can move!
to assume that having these unique styles is a trend is to assume that photorealism is a default. spiderverse (and others) changed the game and its going to forever impact animation. more movies will come out with their own fresh visual styles. so far nobody's copied the spiderverse visual style, only the philosophy. i think the people complaining about it being overdone are just cranky after seeing it praised/mentioned/compared so much
After watching the same style animation my whole life I’m beyond thrilled for this new movement. I’ve always been a fan of impressionism over realism in art, and irritated by the homogenization of digital work when it should lend itself to boundless experimentation. Spiderverse helped open that door, but also told a great story. It pushed boundaries and helped justify animation as a medium and not a genre. It genuinely feels like a renaissance for movies for me and I’m beyond stoked that it’s catching on
i personally love the tmnt style. I think it stands on its own to be this unique.
Video game been doing this stylized CG long ago because of the limitation of Realtime rendering. It's refreshing that Animation Industry embracing these stylized CG rather than the usual realistic Rendering/Lighting, letting computer do all the work. Sure, the cat from toy story 4 look so real it much have taken a lot of effort to do it but what amazing about art is that it's not real yet somehow believable, it's brought human fantasy into the real world.
Seeing how things are going, it's mostly likely not going to be saturated, at least not any time soon. All the movies with the 2D/3D look so far has some elements that are similar but they all have their differences that set them apart so the style will still be fresh for a while.
the spider-verse movement in the animation cinema industry kinda reminds me of a similar shift when Arc System Works first revealed Guilty Gear Xrd Sign to the world and that changed people's perceptions on how to do 3D anime in the gaming side of things.
Unfortunately, not as many people ended up adopting the style or methodology but within that gaming space whenever a new 3D anime game is revealed, there's always the ever-present sentiment of "I wish they did it like Arc Sys"
Didn’t they patent part of the technology? I’m sure a lot of game devs just find it too difficult or aren’t given the budget, but if there are legal reasons that could slow it a lot. I could totally have conflated it with the Namco loading screen minigame thing though.
True, because making an animation as real as possible didn't require creativity, meanwhile making an art direction animation did. So, like an anime, it will evolutionize to become more and more different years after years. I mean, look at anime from the 90s, 2000s, and 2010s, they're all very different looking while still looking like an anime.
I feel like stylized animation being called "Spider-Verse style" rubs me the wrong way. While it had become more popular because Spider-Verse, it's been done for years, and so many films have sylized their animation to make it unique in so many ways. I think the popularity of stylized animation will only push animation further and what can be done instead of it becoming stale.
I don't think it's becoming oversaturated because it's not really a "Spiderverse" animation style but instead. combining different 2D art mediums with 3D animations. The Puss N Boots movie mixed 2D water color painting with 3D animation. If other movies can take the style of different 2D art styles like oil painting, acrylic paintings, oil pastels and other forms and mixing those forms with 3D, then the new art movement for animation won't become over saturated or won't become over saturated for a while.
You talking about the "uncanny" feeling at 2:30 is something that totally resonates with me. Especially with the clip you showed. Soul was the first time I thought "Huh" because the character designers did a real solid job of making likably stylized characters, but they were place in what seemed a hyper realistic world. Instead of immersing me, they seemed to always be competing.
The thing that I find is that the part that's so special about this movement is that the art style isn't typically just 2D merged with 3D, but its art form matches the thing it's based on/centred around. Spider-verse had the comic-book style for obvious reasons (as well as the other characters having different styles to match their mediums). Entergalactic was about two artists, and the animation reflected that. Puss in boots the last wish is from a fictional world based on fairytale, and this was also reflected in the art style. TMNT just seems off because its not a clear representation of its medium, it just feels random and like a jump on a trend. No hate to it though, if we were gonna have this movie its at least nice that the style is kinda fresh.
They could just be jumping on the trend because this is the new standard for some companies, this isn't really a style, it's just people making use of new tools and techniques, many of which were popularized by spider verse yes but don't necessarily define one specific style
@@rheawelsh4142 Yet people are disingenuous and keep saying spider-verse style.
Why are people saying that *any* movie that isn't the pixar look suddently using the "Spiderverse look"... Like tf, it's just a different art style that's been around for thousands of years and then they made it an animation. Puss In Boots, Mitchels & the Machines, and The Bad Guys look almost nothing like the Spiderverse movies. What happened is that a movie not using the Pixar style did well and artists and animators were given the ability to be creative by their producers because it had been proven to work.
The first movie I saw that had a combination of 2D and 3D was Spirit: Stallion of the Cimarron. I have a ton of nostalgia for it but most people don’t care for it. From what I remember, 2D was on it’s way out but hadn’t been fully replaced by 3D. The story is also generic so it’s not surprising that it didn’t have the impact that Spidervers had. It does predate Spiderverse by a lot so I thought it was worth mentioning.
Yeah, the people at DreamWorks at the time called it "Tradigital Animation". Not the first time a 2D film played around with that sort of thing. Their earlier film, The Prince of Egypt used similar techniques for the parting of the Red Sea and for the plagues.
Hell, if you go far enough, you can find animated films in the 80s combining both traditional 2D animation with 3D CGI.
Treasure Planet is another movie full of 2D/3D combination done very well. The animation on the main villain Long John Silver is still really impressive to me twenty years later.
I was surprised to see such a good channel on my recommendations, your content is not worse than channels with hundreds of thousand of subscribers :D Thank you for such work!
This is a very good overview and while I certainly have my reservations for the kind of animated stories we are going to get in the future (primarily being relegated to action-adventure films), the importance of art style taking precedence over how realistic a film looks, or how detailed particles look is overall a net positive, I would like more animated films to push themselves to use their mediums in more interesting ways and ultimately Spider-Verse did bring about that change, and as an animation fan I can't help but be excited for what the future may bring
i think as long as people are putting their own spin on it and its not like most cg films just making the same thing over and over its not gonna be overused
I think I might be a bit hard to get tired of the spider-verse look because it's just really creative art style and as long as they put their own spin on it I don't think it's going to be pretty hard not to get tired of it especially if it's a really creative
I’d like to see an anime with this new style, where it feels like actual manga panels
I think Kamikaze Douga has done similar stuff, most notably the JoJo OPs. Also Sanzigen has an interesting mix of 2D anime motion with 3D animation in anime like Bang Dream and D4DJ, though that is a style of their own that I'd consider separate from the so-called "Spider-verse" style.
Though it's funny to think that both studios have been doing that mix from before Spider-verse came out.
@@Sarubadooru Japan has been doing it for years. Spider-verse didn’t invent cel shading. Anime has been doing that for years. Spider-verse was influenced by some anime. But no, spider-verse style invented everything right.
There was a Pixar movie that got scraped called me and my shadow, so i truly feel like this was inevitable. That this truly is the path animation was going to take. But to answer your question i feel like as long as the studios keep in mind what they want the 2d aspect to look like. With Ninja turtles it looks like an oil painting that it's muddy like and messy but still has clean lines to reflect on it's original grungy comic look. So as long as you know what theme you want to go with the story you really can't go wrong.
Me and My shadow was going to be made by DreamWorks Animation N0T Pixar
Epic summary and history of animation and CGI styles! It was so cool to hear you talk about the differences between the various films that have been combining 3D and 2D Animation with offset frame rates! I for one am here for it! It reminds me of the beauty captured in Treasure Planet in how it mashed up 2D and 3D Animation way back when.
I hope that Spider-Verse's animation style doesn't get old
Great exploration of the topic. I think a big part of why people grew tired of the traditional computer animated style was that it became essentially the only thing we saw from big budget Hollywood animated features. As cool as the rise and evolution of 3D was to witness, I don't think anyone wanted it to replace hand-drawn animation. The late 90s/early 2000s were great because we had this rich mix of hand drawn, computer animated, and even occasional stop motion. Then we got to a period where things became homogenized. I'm hoping that with this new movement, we don't repeat that cycle by having this become the standard approach that eliminates the present popular style. The lesson should be that there shouldn't be "A" standard approach. We should have exploration and variation with room for traditional styles to maintain (and in the case of hand drawn, regain) a presence.
What a fantastic and well thought out comment. I definitely agree - right now it may feel like a lot of animations are taking specific visual cues from Spiderverse, but I think with time the overarching ideology of personalised/hand crafted/experimental animation will continue being explored and solidified.
@@DanielAngArt Thanks for the thoughtful response! Subscribed!
I'm happy that you mentioned that these art styles, while probably inspired by Spider-verse, are not all the same as Spider-verse. Just merging 2D and 3D doesn't instantly make something Spider-verse. I saw complaints that TMNT is "clearly aping Spider-verse" and its really not. They don't look the same.
if anything mutant mayhem takes inspiration from doodles you would see in middle or high school and the OG comic books
@@BestOneEver247 Yeah so many characters are mishapen or even grotesque, the brush strokes are messy and not always consistent. It has a very distinct art style
@@pianist150 and it's not like Spider-verse invented that sort of style look at the short film paper man for example
What I'm hoping for is a resurgence of hand-drawn line art based animation. You could essentially animate a 3d model for reference and draw over it frame by frame, which would remove a lot of the guess work of trying to imagine a 2d character in a 3d space when you "move the camera around". Essentially hand-drawn animation on the surface, and 3d under the hood
Ik this kind of animation doesn’t follow the 2D/3D style, but it’s still different from CGI realism. I noticed that there have been some movies and tv shows using rotoscope animation in recent years. The show Undone is fully rotoscoped and has this really cool water colour style, and Loving Vincent is rotoscoped using oil paintings, and the same creators for loving Vincent are also doing another oil painting film called The Peasants which looks amazing, and really looks like a moving impressionist painting. Maybe this rotoscope trend is sorta like a sub section of this 2D/3D art style, or it can even be its own this. It’s not totally popular yet, but maybe they’ll have their spiderverse moment soon. I just really love the look of those movies and shows, it’s absolutely stunning.
I think that spider verse does it better than anyone else could dream of, it’ll become over saturated, not because it’ll get boring , just the copies of it will become boring
To further elaborate. An important thing to keep in mind is that animation is, well, animated, and as long as the visual style supports the story it enhances the punch it has. Even if the story of the new TNMT is crap it'll be memorable because the art style supports the narrative representation of them being teenagers and touch around the edges.
The animation style that is going on rn (2D/3D) is one of if not my favorite animation style! As an animator going to watch the new Spiderverse was AMAZING. (Tho I am really pissed abt them over working their animators) The visuals, the choppy frame rate during some scenes, EVERYTHING abt gwen, HOBIE. OH. MY. GOD. HOBIE. The magazine style Hobie gets is amazing. S
And in newer movies like nimona (I've watched the movie 3 times already help) is so good!!nimona was OG a graphic novel (or web coming first) so the Impression animation style makes a lot of sense! The style is overall OG to each project like you said a style will change depending on who is drawing with it. So I'm not complaining abt it tbh
Spider-Verse's art style isn't just one thing, as you said in your pinned comment. Miles' universe is supposed to look like a comic book, Spider-Ham is supposed to look like a cartoon, Penny Parker is supposed to look like she's an anime character. Across the Spider-Verse uses unique art styles for almost every universe visited in that movie. Characters retain the art style of the universe they're from. Another movie that people say copies the Spider-Verse art style is Puss In Boots: The Last Wish. While this movie does take plenty of cues from Spider-Verse, like animating characters on 2s, Puss In Boots 2 is supposed to look like a painting. Spider-Verse's art style is really just taking inspiration and cues from other forms of media and injecting it into the CG realistic animation we've all gotten used to. It's about making a movie visually unique when compared to others, crafting everything with artistic intent. Spider-Verse's art style isn't just one thing, it's about making things unique through style, flair, and artistic intent.
facts this will make some 3d movies have more personality and facial expressions imo
The art style reminds me of a few 3D animated anime series such as Houseki no Kuni, Dorohedoro, and so on. :-] It was a breath of fresh air when I saw it for the first time; it was stunning. I cannot wait for the future of animation! (Off topic: I also hope 2D animation will one day become mainstream again in the west because it is simply gorgeous.)
Although Comics are essentially "2D," I find the comic style was an addition (and the cherry on top) to the already 2D & 3D artsyle. That's what made Into The Spiderverse even more impactful.
Why I think this art style will never die is because every single movie has its own style there’s watercolor, comic drawings, oil paint. Every single movie has its own style so it’ll always be unique.
One thing people aren't talking about is how this style is way too intense to look at, even with the original spiderverse. There is a good chance in the future people will look at it with way more scorn. Intergalactic looks cool though.
people with less than 10k subs really out here making the best content
i wish there was something that pushed it even further away from the 3D look, like combining 3D NPR techniques with AI to make it like a moving painting
i think it all comes to the Story , what are they want us to feel , what's the purpose .
Spiderverse became this big phenomenon because it was different and had the heart worming story
, Puss in boots the last wish is a very good movie because it to have the very good story
i have watched the ninja turtles movie, the whole thing, the movie has very VERY different from spiderverse. spiderverse has 2D effects to give a comic book style, but the ninja turtles wants to give off a vibe of young teens having created it, with lots of fx just being squiggles everywhere and doodles, the style is way different, with all the characters being hand drawn : but it does become sometimes close to the style of gwen's universe ! except the colors are wayy closer to the show and warmer in general, especially because most of the scenes take place in new york, lit by the street light, which are usually yellow. the style and colors really serve a story that is for teenagers, and keeping the ninja turtles vibe, which is very different from shrek or spider man.
To me it's not a problem. All of these "Spider-Verse" like movies have their own specifc intentions behind their style likw you pointed out. I mean we all watch live action movies but how many of those can you tell are completely uniquely directed in a way that makes it look not derivative of any other style? Most are gonna have some similarities with only a few making a wholy unique imprint on the scene (I can only think of Wes Anderson for that irreplaceable style).
WAIT A SEC YOU WERE AT OZ CON RIGHT? I just randomly found this video and recognised your logo, I love ur art
Hahah yes I was! Wow that's such a coincidence 🤣 thank you!
@Daniel Ang Art yeah lol, the wa convention, I even have one of your business cards sitting on my desk rn I'm pretty sure
I think not, because the pixar and illumination styles have been around for a long time without much complaint, and those are npwhere near as original. The Spiderverse look isnt even necessarily one style, its more just the pursuit of both making a more stylized look of CG, and variable frame timings that allow for more intentionality in each individual frame.
I agree. Besides, there are also other ways you can still be unique.
It's not just the studios. Art schools and teachers set a slew of traditional limitations on style. That's he only way they can sell the concept of teaching "Art"
I've basically been saying this for the better part of a decade, so I'm glad someone with more of a stake in the field agrees with me, too. Good video.
I think Into the Spider-Verse getting the art style buzzword is just a “First Napkin” effect in play. Bonus points to those who get it. Although it should be moreso “Graphic Reduction” as that’s what the Spider-Verse art director called it.
Great video! And new into music 👀it fits!
Thanks Max! KaizanBlu wrote the music for the new intro, highly recommend checking his stuff out :)
The dislikes are from "antiwoke" people not liking the new April design, I don't think it has to do with the artstyle
I would also like to see a return of the fluid, bouncy 2D animation Disney and Dreamworks dominated in 80s and 90s; two movies that come to mind are the My Little Pony movie and Klaus on netflix. And maybe some indie creators could try their hand at making cel animated works like Cuphead.
As long as the 2D styles are made to compliment the feeling of the movie it'll never be oversaturated. ItSV and AtSV use a comic book style. PiB2 uses a watercolour style. TMNT uses a style that a young teenager would most likely use.
While all of them use the same general style none of them use the same specific style, and that makes them interesting instead of samey and boring.
Would not surprise me if older franchises not in the limelight will come back. Sorta like Puss in Boots. It's insane how we get amazing visuals & animation along side great story telling & characters in this new era
I love this style so much! I wish I would've known it was going to "come back"so I could've pursue animation specifically instead of art, but I didn't have the option anyway, locally speaking
This quality of video is crazy for only 6k subs! Keep them coming and this channel will no doubt grow :)
One reason why the new TMNT may look weird to some people is because I think it’s trying to emulate the original running of the TMNT comics
Whooo great vid as always!
With the critically acclaimed release of Nimona, I feel like your thesis has been proven correct. The animators at Blue Sky outright stated that they were going for a pastel, cell-shaded hybrid style. Into the Spider-Verse was definitely the crack in the dam.
After that, I think industry giants were willing to throw money at any project they could. Dreamworks hired anyone they could get that worked on Spider-Verse 1 for The Last Wish, and Netflix turned Entergalactic from a basic animated video album into a full-blown miniseries.
The positive critical reception of Entergalactic caused Netflix to pick up and fund the rest of the movie Disney cancelled for being too gay and too obscure. While most of Nimona is in unique, but less sophisticated, cell-shaded pastels, there are still really amazing 2D/3D bits that still blow my mind despite the limited budget (Nimona's goofy half-drawn/half-cutout intro, and the subway tile story of Nimona's "background.")
What's most shocking to me about Spiderverse was how North American animated films so suddenly rocketed to the top of this movement. Part of why it felt somewhat inevitable is that people had been visibly experimenting with 2d/3d art styles in games (everything by telltale or arc system works), large japanese animation productions (studio orange, polygon pictures, even some ghibli), music videos (like the Jinx one you mentioned), and indie animation (too many to list) with varying degrees of success. Yet Spiderverse was somehow able to be the first NA feature length film to dive into it headfirst and is also somehow so good that it became the poster child for it (which it deserves wholeheartedly). And then other NA films have come out with 2d/3d banger after banger. It makes sense as they've has the opportunity to learn from the successes and failures of those that came before them as well as proof to financial backers that it's possible and profitable.
I don't think Mutant Mayhem is getting enough credit for its particular art style. The effects work and framerate are certainly Spiderverse inspired, but everything from the faces of characters to the background art seems to be inspired by Cubism and other 20th century art movements. In the same way that it makes perfect sense for a comic book movie to use Ben Day dots and hatching lines, it makes perfect sense for a film about turtles named after Renaissance masters to use this blend of street art and old painterly styles.
Spiderverse may have blown the gate open, but each team and film has brought forth a product with its own unique high-concept style. Klaus isn't 3D, but I'd also include it in this animation renaissance to be revolutionary for 2D, a form usually not considered relevant for feature films nowadays. Its lighting work is in a class of its own.
Very nice and concise essay. Thank you man!
Was a bit of a trip seeing the city in the opening haha. I was like “huh that looks like my office,,,,,, WAIT, that is my office!” Hahaha. Awesome to see
I like the tmnt trailer, its 2d over 3d but it still looks unique and it also looks like a fun movie, but i can see what your saying, ill always enjoy this style over the boring "pixar" style that everyone else has been doing for 20 year just because i like it better aesthetically and usually movies with this style have more thought behind them
You could say this started with the Lego movies with the stop motion effect it has
If Spider Verse style becomes saturated, then there will be a need to change, now we can only hope to change for the better.
Disney wish looks nothing spider-verse. It’s stylized cg.
as long as people keep putting their own spin on the hybrid style, I don't expect it to become stale anytime soon :)
I feel like because of the Gwen scenes in Across the Spider-verse, the possibilities of variety are kind of endless.
I don’t understand why all these big animation studios haven’t taken more inspiration from the video game industry yet, I want to see animated movies that are willing to experiment with crazy ideas like a first person movie or a 16 bit movie or SOMETHING
TAKE RISKS, GIVE ME INNOVATION
Also, hello? anime? Do I need to say more?